Re: Ever Since Lieberman Endorsed McCain, I'm Outraged By Elie Wiesel

1

Hamas? That Turkish rap-rock band?


Posted by: norbizness | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:23 PM
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Of course, if Hamas endorsed McCain.... um, I'm not sure in detail what would happen, but they'd figure out some way to make it seem good.


Posted by: Zippy the Comment Frog | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:30 PM
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Of course if you were a spokesman for Hamas, you'd never consider the possibility of endorsing the guy you want to lose, 'cus ragheads is teh stupid.

Four more years of neocon idiocy in the middle east couldn't possibly be of any help to the guys who've seen a massive upsurge in recruitment since the invasion of Iraq, could it?


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:30 PM
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Weren't you just calling me a Nazi?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:31 PM
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Not in the bad sense, B.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:36 PM
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Good thing the bad guys always tell the truth! If Hamas says it, it must be true.

Hamas: "Please don't throw me in the briar patch!"


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:39 PM
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If the Dems had any long-term planning at all, they would've gotten Lieberman beat in the General in 2006, then started beating the drum for a McCain-Lieberman ticket. When Lieberman doesn't get it, shout "anti-semitism."

Granted, it wouldn't gain us any votes, but it would be fun. Plus, Holy Joe marginalized.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:39 PM
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I am frankly surprised that more hasn't been made of the FARC #2 guy's computer being seized, directly stating that they think they would get a better deal with Obama. They had even hired a lobbyist.

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=289786626246641


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:42 PM
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If the Dems had any long-term planning at all, they would've gotten Lieberman beat in the General in 2006

If I'm not mistaken, rather a largish cohort of Democrats tried to do this exact thing.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:45 PM
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I'm not sure Hamas is playing any kind of deep game. They're a Palestinian group with a real political party as well as an Israel-focused terror group. While they're not fond of the U.S., I don't believe they've ever mounted an attack outside Israel. Why wouldn't they want to root for the Muslim the guy who seems to have the least blindly pro-Israel policy? I suspect they're going to be disappointed on that front, but really, isn't the U.S. is an ancillary front for their legitimate political grievances/bloodthirsty Jew-hate? They're not al-Qaeda, who have demonstrated the ability to game the American media at will and clearly benefited from having Bush in office.

(The sourcing on the Hamas goes to Aaron Klein of the Enquirer-for-neocons WorldNetDaily; Klein's beat is apparently getting terrorists and people who can usefully be branded terrorists to say nice things about Democrats. I wouldn't be willing to put money on it reflecting any actual institutional opinion.)


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:45 PM
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I think Zell Miller is free these days. McCain could probably pick up his support, too, for the price of a Denny's Early Bird special.

And speaking of crabby appletons, this old Bill O'Reilly tantrum is so, so, awesome.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:46 PM
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And TLL sites an Investor Business Daily editorial. Sweet, TLL! Maybe next you and the IBD can tell us why the media is ignoring Clinton's complicity in the death of Vincent Foster.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:48 PM
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s/sites/cites/. Sorry, w-lfs-n.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:48 PM
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I was going to post some jokes about just how unreliable IBD is, but I was looking at how the story of the information on Raul Reyes computer's were covered at slightly more reliable sources. For instance, I asked someone talking to themselves on the subway about it.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:51 PM
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7: Yes, one of the early warning signs of where the Clintons have gone in the 2008 Primary* was Bill Clinton actively campaigning for Joe even after Lieberman had said that he would not honor the outcome of the primary if he lost. A total freeze out by all Dems (if not active campaigning for Lamont) would have been the appropriate response.

*In the process ignoring how awful Lieberman had been during the Impeachment Follies. (Not to mention the hypocrisy of Liberman then turning around and giving Cheney a blowjob right on stage during the 2000 VP "debate".)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:51 PM
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Of course bin Laden wants McCain to be president, just as bin Laden acted to push for Bush's victory in 2004.

On the other hand, this Hamas thing reads to me like actual (if counterproductive) support for Obama. Hamas doesn't hate the U.S. the way al Qaeda does, and probably really does wish for a more Obama-like Mideast policy.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:53 PM
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I can't believe my country is this fucking stupid. It's at the level of Hitler had organic bees and liberals like honey, but with an actual politician. Honestly, who the fuck cares what Hamas thinks?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:53 PM
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Maybe next you and the IBD can tell us why the media is ignoring Clinton's complicity in the death of Vincent Foster.

No kidding. Check out how the editorial goes from "someone told these guys something" to "who was giving assurances to FARC on behalf of the Obama campaign?" in one paragraph.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:54 PM
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Everyone should follow the link in 11.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:57 PM
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16 italicized improperly, and pwned by 10.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 1:59 PM
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8: Don't worry, the groundswell is just . Coming to an MSM outlet near you real soon now.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:00 PM
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(The sourcing on the Hamas goes to Aaron Klein of the Enquirer-for-neocons WorldNetDaily; Klein's beat is apparently getting terrorists and people who can usefully be branded terrorists to say nice things about Democrats. I wouldn't be willing to put money on it reflecting any actual institutional opinion.)

Oh geez, I didn't realize that. That guy is such an ass; he's being taken this seriously now?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:01 PM
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21: the groundswell is just starting on Reyes.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:01 PM
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Dudes, it happened, deal with it. Were I running for President I would not be happy that my legitimate policy positions were seen to be favoring notorious scumsuckers, and that they were bragging about it in internal memos.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:01 PM
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24: so your way of dealing with the utter unreliability of your source is to... revert to surfer lingo, I guess?

"Who can I imitate that's trustworthy. Oh! Swayze in Point Break: everybody trusted him!"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:04 PM
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McCain is now against global warming for democratic capitalist countries, but all for turning up the heat on those countries that hate our freedoms.


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:06 PM
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22: Yeah, this is one of Klein's stocks in trade.

Here he is a few days before the 2006 election:
Mideast terror leaders to U.S.: Vote Democrat
Withdrawal from Iraq would embolden jihadists to destroy Israel, America


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:07 PM
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24: Right, but you'd probably be hoping that the internal memos weren't being given weight by your alleged ally.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:07 PM
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I am endorsing Barack Obama because he is beautiful.


Posted by: Alexander Nehamas | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:08 PM
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I am endorsing Barack Obama because he is kalon kai agathos.


Posted by: The Real Alexander Nehamas | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:11 PM
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Tweety, the computer was captured. The letters have been released. I don't believe it is anything more than embarrassing to Obama at this point. Buncha guys talking big. But his position of not supporting Plan Columbia or the free trade agreement. these are legitimate policy positions, but like I said, embarrassing to be mentioned by the "bad guys".

Also- just like in MIB, some sources are to be trusted in these things.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:13 PM
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Dudes, it happened, deal with it. Were I running for President I would not be happy that my legitimate policy positions were seen to be favoring notorious scumsuckers, and that they were bragging about it in internal memos.

Nobody is questioning the existence of the laptop; it's more that you pointed to an outlet about two steps more trustworthy than David Icke which immediately assumed that Obama has been offering Colombian terrorists secret promises. As the non-reptilloids at Foreign Policy note, Obama hasn't even been saying favorable things about FARC; this is about his opposition to the Colombian free trade agreement, which I think is politically a winner and policy-wise a pretty good stance. So, no, the dude abides.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:13 PM
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11: fuck you, San Diego!!


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:14 PM
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30: "The Real Alexander Nehamas" is clearly just the kind of academic egghead elitist who would endorse Obama.


Posted by: Your Alexander Nehamas | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:14 PM
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TLL, I urge you to do everything in your power to get McCain talking about what a boon the Colombian free trade agreement is and how Obama should be ashamed for opposing it. Frequently, and in prime-time ads if you can manage it.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:14 PM
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Re 11, I could watch that video all day. Cracks me up every time.


Posted by: sam k | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:16 PM
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embarrassing to be mentioned by the "bad guys".

Dude, what? Why? Who gives a fuck, really, what some asshole in some other country predicts will happen to his personal rectal kingdom if either candidate is elected? What the fuck do we care?

35 is funny, and so true. Do you need help, TLL?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:16 PM
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And the interesting thing in that document is what it says about Venezuelan involvement with FARC. I'd think that you'd ignore the weak sauce Obama stuff in favor of proof that the Venezuelan-Cuban axis of communismo is gearing up to create a Red Army prepared to pour up through Brownsville, or possibly parachute into Colorado like in Red Dawn.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:19 PM
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TLL, things we hear from the American military, the Bush administration, or most of the media are not believed any more. That's the rational default position after seven years. The burden of proof has been changed by events.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:21 PM
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Eh. The Democrats had (continue to have) every chance to kill the neoconservative movement, and have done nothing about it. Instead, neocons walk around in Blue cities, smiling openly and in public, unafraid for the their teeth. Hard to get too upset if Democratic inaction bites them in the ass. Anyway, Obama's still going to win, because not even the blessing of Hamas can make McCain any younger or less incontinent.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:25 PM
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Hamas is Arabic for "The Struggle For Regularity".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:29 PM
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But surely Professor Nehamas knows that Senator Obama would be kalos kai agathos, or in the syncopated, Platonic formulation kalokagathos.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:30 PM
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it's more that you pointed to an outlet about two steps more trustworthy than David Icke

Proof that McCain is the Lizard candidate!!!


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:31 PM
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43: what's even funnier is that it's the Geico lizard, what with Warren Buffet being such a big secret GOP lizard, and all.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:41 PM
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what's even funnier is that it's the Geico lizard

How can you tell? They all look alike to me.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 2:56 PM
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So in this analogy, Lieberman's endorsement of McCain=9/11 and Elie Wiesel=Chappaquiddick?

I think you'd better reinstate the ban.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 5:14 PM
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So who says ogged is making an analogy?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 5:47 PM
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Ben gets it exactly right.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 5:49 PM
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A perceived analogy is as fatal as a real analogy. We're playing by Fox News rules here. Ogged should be stripped of his blog.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 5:56 PM
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I always do.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 5:58 PM
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Ogged must reject and denounce w-lfs-n's traitorous misunderstanding of slol's patriotic broadening of the analogy ban.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 5:58 PM
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Ogged won't go without a fight. I say we reach him through the bass-playing librarian.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:54 PM
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I can get a toe easily by 3:00 pm.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:31 PM
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You are mentioning Bérubé because....


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:26 PM
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...he once described Roger L. Sim/n as a "I used to be a Democrat, but ever since 9/11 I've been outraged about Chappaquiddick" type.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:28 PM
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Without, you see, thereby asserting an analogy between the four entities. Ogged is indebted to Bérubé rather for the form of his assertion.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:30 PM
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Are forms not banned?

Also, I'm going to see Beethoven's 3rd symphony on Saturday. What do I need to know about classical music and symphonic structure? Assume I mostly listen to power pop and Red Hot compilations.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:32 PM
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Just wear a cummerbund and you'll be fine.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:33 PM
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Will disaster befall him if wears more than a cummerbund?


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:37 PM
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LA Philharmonic? Dude, you're going to hear Beethoven 3 and Messiaen, you lucky dog.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:38 PM
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57: Couldn't tell you, ever since the invasion of Poland, I've been outraged by "Ode to Joy".


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:38 PM
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Anhedonic.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:42 PM
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60: Why am I so lucky? Seriously, I'm a total noob in classical music. And should I be distraught that Pierre-Laurent Aimard must withdraw from the concerts this weekend due to back strain and Peter Serkin is taking his place?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:44 PM
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This is why I am lucky, and why I should be distraught.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:52 PM
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No, Serkin is great, and pretty authoritative on Messiaen. I recently heard him play the solo piece on the program, and I'd love to hear him play Oiseaux exotiques. You could start by reading the program notes and listening to the sound samples on the program page at the LA Phil's site. Basically, Messiaen was a Catholic mystic fascinated with birdsong, and what you're going to hear is fascinating, trippy music with all kinds of great instrumental textures. I'd be kind of tempted to get stoned beforehand, but that's just me (and apo and Tweety). Also, the Beethoven is a milestone in symphonic form, but you might just want to think of it as proto-power pop, which in some sense it is in comparison to the symphonic models that preceded it.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 12:01 AM
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in comparison to the symphonic models that preceded it

Have been listening to Haydn's London and Mozart's 38-41 for comparison. Well, just the London so far.

Thanks! I may get stoned and listen to recordings at home, but if I want to stay awake I can't really do that at the symphony. But cool idea.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 12:04 AM
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64 was great. I wished they'd showed the dude actually hugging the gong to mute it. Because that's what you sorta do. Hug!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 12:05 AM
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Thanks for that link in 64; great performance, Boulez is a god among conductors. Some people don't like to get too familiar with a piece they're about to hear live, but I would probably listen to that several times to get it into my head beforehand.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 12:09 AM
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