Re: Next: Locusts

1

Pacing!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 6:05 PM
horizontal rule
2

Maybe we can get an MT plugin that will automatically add a comment, attributed at random to a regular, that just says "Pacing!", to any post published within two hours of the next most recently published post.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 6:07 PM
horizontal rule
3

Or, in this case, three hours and one minute.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 6:07 PM
horizontal rule
4

Don't we have enough regulars without lives to obviate the need for such a plugin?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 6:08 PM
horizontal rule
5

I'd be okay with locusts if they were fried. A plague of snacks! Mmm.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 6:13 PM
horizontal rule
6

Don't we have enough regulars without lives to obviate the need for such a plugin?

Yes, but it would give me joy to make their lives that much emptier.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 6:15 PM
horizontal rule
7

If any major bodies of water turn to blood, I will definitely start to wonder.


Posted by: Zippy the Comment Frog | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 6:26 PM
horizontal rule
8

Minor bodies of water turning to blood is hardly news-worthy.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 6:36 PM
horizontal rule
9

6: Yes, but it would give me joy to make their lives that much emptier.

Some things are important.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 6:39 PM
horizontal rule
10

I am not looking forward to the slaying of the firstborn.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 6:50 PM
horizontal rule
11

Maybe Obama George Bush is the Antichrist.

Fixed!

max
['What? Years and years of death and disaster - and the Antichrist is supposed to be seen as a beloved Christian.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 6:50 PM
horizontal rule
12

Your local butcher might have some lamb's blood you could use, teo.

On the plus side, declining amphibian populations might benefit from a plague of frogs.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 6:54 PM
horizontal rule
13

Plague of frogs good. Try and slay my firstborn, though, and you'll find out what apocalypse really means.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:02 PM
horizontal rule
14

You know what I always wondered about in the plague story? Wouldn't Pharaoh himself have been a first-born?


Posted by: Zippy the Comment Frog | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:02 PM
horizontal rule
15

Whatever happened to "Isle of Toads"? Was he banned?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:06 PM
horizontal rule
16

14: God's beef was only with the innocent and defenseless firstborn.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:13 PM
horizontal rule
17

14: A pharoanic exemption? Fucking rich people.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:14 PM
horizontal rule
18

The latest in Obama is the Antichrist-ism (via Bob Novak, find it yourself):

Some U.S. Christians are not reconciled to McCain's candidacy but instead regard the prospective presidency of Barack Obama in the nature of a biblical plague visited upon a sinful people. These militants look at former Baptist preacher Huckabee as "God's candidate" for president in 2012.

Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:17 PM
horizontal rule
19

Pharoanic marriages were brother-sister, so any given Pharoah was his own cousin. Hence the exception.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:18 PM
horizontal rule
20

the slaying of the firstborn

And now to completely depress everyone: there was a horrible story on NPR on my ride home with reporting from the school that was hit by the earthquake talking about the awful consequences of the school collapse + China's one child policy. All of the parents there are completely at a loss -- they didn't just experience the horror of losing a child; they all lost their only children.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:22 PM
horizontal rule
21

Would you accept toads? According to Shanghaist it is earthquake related.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:24 PM
horizontal rule
22

Levity appearing after real depressing news. Not so funny.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:26 PM
horizontal rule
23

21 to 20


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:33 PM
horizontal rule
24

20: I heard that too. Horrifying.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:34 PM
horizontal rule
25

20.---Yes, I suspected this. Horrible, horrible.

As for the pharaoh, it wouldn't at all surprise me if he'd murdered his older brother on the way to power and the whole "first-born" thing wasn't a dig at him and how his mother never loved him best anyway.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:35 PM
horizontal rule
26

I just wrote about a conversation I had today with the dean of my college, who I know pretty well, where told me about the death of his son. It was over fifteen years ago, and it still totally levels him to think about. He broke down, then I broke down, etc.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:37 PM
horizontal rule
27

I mean, since we're on the topic of dead first-born sons.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:38 PM
horizontal rule
28

Also: ogged, I think your spiffy new video-embed is slaying my browser. I would have put this note in the proper thread, but every time I scroll down, or even hang out too long on Unfogged today, my browser changes font, looking suspiciously like the "Safe Mode" font, slows way down, and then becomes unresponsive. So, uh, one vote against the spiffy new video-embed.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:39 PM
horizontal rule
29

28: I think it crashed mine, too.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:39 PM
horizontal rule
30

To make up for my depressing comment 20: just think of all of the fun we'll have photoshopping LOLcusts for the coming apocalypse.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:47 PM
horizontal rule
31

Q: Why did 7 trillion locusts cross the road?

A: Don't blame me, I voted for the Green Party candidate.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:56 PM
horizontal rule
32

LOLcusts for the coming apocalypse

I'M IN UR FIELDS DEVOURING UR CROPS OM NOM NOM


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 7:58 PM
horizontal rule
33

All your maize are belong to us.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:01 PM
horizontal rule
34

We can has wheat crops? Kthxbye.


Posted by: bonsaisue | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:05 PM
horizontal rule
35

Transgressing the Boundaries: Toward a Transformative Hermeneutics of Locust Plagues


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:10 PM
horizontal rule
36

Upon further reading of news: the disasters are too depressing for lolcusts.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:20 PM
horizontal rule
37

INVISIBLE CROPS


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:25 PM
horizontal rule
38

36: UR PLAGUE OF BUZZKIL IZ DEPRIKATID

Come on, if we can't make horrible, too-soon jokes about unthinkable tragedy on unimaginable scale here, where can we?

NEED ANOTHER SEVEN ASTRONAUTS?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:32 PM
horizontal rule
39

38: Come on, if we can't make horrible, too-soon jokes about unthinkable tragedy on unimaginable scale here, where can we?

Yeah,
Why did the Celtic cross the state line?

Beats the fuck out of him.

...maybe..


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:38 PM
horizontal rule
40

if we can't make horrible, too-soon jokes

It may be that LOLcusts are not the right jokes.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:38 PM
horizontal rule
41

...maybe..

mmmmmmaybe is right.

40: Building LOLcollapse?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:40 PM
horizontal rule
42

Motherfucking earth need to stop with the natural disasters.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:41 PM
horizontal rule
43

Something something Mother Nature. Something something Mother's Day.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:45 PM
horizontal rule
44

41: Take THAT! pinkboy.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:46 PM
horizontal rule
45

44: yeah looks like a strong maybe at this point. Well, they'll get 'em at home (again) probably.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:48 PM
horizontal rule
46

So the Celtics are the only team still in the playoffs not to win a game on the road?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:49 PM
horizontal rule
47

30-38: Happy-making. Thanks.

Now, please undo the 18 million people who apparently have died in the last 8 days.

PS - Actually, Mother Earth says, "Please don't."


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:51 PM
horizontal rule
48

45: When fucking Varejao is hitting shots like those two at the end, you know that it is not in the cards. Cavs doing much better against the Celts than I thought they would. (They're "my" team, but I can't see them even coming close to competing with any of the Western teams, Boston seems the best bet for that (or at least seemed during the regular season).)

And I am not a huge jam fan, but that one was pretty special.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:56 PM
horizontal rule
49

That little edge the refs give at home is turning out to be crucial for the Celtics. They're looking a little...old.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 8:59 PM
horizontal rule
50

Guys, stop talking about baseball. Not everyone here is a sports fan.


Posted by: Zippy the Comment Frog | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:05 PM
horizontal rule
51

PGD every ref in the NBA is biased. Like LeBron didn't get any calls in his favor tonight?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:06 PM
horizontal rule
52

I probably I should be more viscerally engaged in cheering for the Cavs, but I guess it's just my "rootless cosmopolitanism" showing through.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:07 PM
horizontal rule
53

51: Seriously. This is because they're Irish, right?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:10 PM
horizontal rule
54

||

Doug Feith is on Daily Show tonight.

|>


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:12 PM
horizontal rule
55

Jeez, we had a nice thread going about the humorous side of mass disaster, and you guys have to ruin it with NBA playoff talk.

Call me in the last minute of the last game; then it might finally be interesting.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:14 PM
horizontal rule
56

54 to 55.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:17 PM
horizontal rule
57

51 doesn't contradict 49 -- all home teams get a little edge. I think the Cavs defense got more of the benefit of the doubt tonight.

I actually think Lebron gets less ref favoritism than most any player of his calibre in the NBA, he's so damn big that when players bounce off him it sometimes doesn't get called. He certainly gets much less tender solicitude than Kobe. Shaq had the same problem. Tweety, I realize you are likely to disagree with this assessment.

The Celtics have not impressed on offense at all in these playoffs. They sometimes look like the old Knicks out there.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:17 PM
horizontal rule
58

I have free wireless access at the Phoenix airport, my delayed flight did NOT cause me to miss my next flight, and all you guys can talk about is basketball and plagues? Pah!


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:22 PM
horizontal rule
59

It's a plague of basketball! A big ball of plagues, in a basket!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:26 PM
horizontal rule
60

You could read this, Witt.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:33 PM
horizontal rule
61

Huh, that's interesting. I admit to having developed a knee-jerk prejudice about Phoenix and development over the past five days, not due to Philadelphia's having been displaced (ahem) as the fifth largest city, but because the waste looks so obvious from the air.

The sales tax seems to be a regressive way to fundraise for transit costs, but certainly better than nothing. I don't know; having just witnessed the expending of a lot of person-hours and pollution on the delayed 20-minute Tucson-Phoenix flight, I'd love it if I could have taken light rail instead.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:41 PM
horizontal rule
62

Speaking of car culture, Alex links to some nice photos of L.A. homes houses garages with attached living areas:

It's as if cars designed these buildings for their own use - realising, of course, they needed to make provision for the people, but sadly not being quite able to understand their needs.

Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:55 PM
horizontal rule
63

Maybe Obama is the Antichrist

He totally is. I get Mass parts stuck in my head, right? Take the Sanctus. How bad is it that the little voice in my head is more often than not singing "Obama in the highest"?


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 9:57 PM
horizontal rule
64

62: People have been saying that about garage dominated home designs for years.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:02 PM
horizontal rule
65

OK, last b-ball of the night, but I totally know that Tweety wants badly to see this one.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:04 PM
horizontal rule
66

64: I've obviously been sheltered, but did you look at the picture? It's really remarkable.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:05 PM
horizontal rule
67

When fucking Varejao

I do not follow sports and thus the name "Varejao" is meaningless to me. In the absence of any immediate context, therefore, I initially read this sentence as prescriptive.

I am sorely disappointed.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:08 PM
horizontal rule
68

66: From the looks of it, it's on a hillside and the street is not on the view side. There could be a window or something to break up the garage door line, but it's not a surprise that the house is oriented the way it is. Aside from it being large, I don't see anything all that remarkable about it. It's southern California.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:11 PM
horizontal rule
69

Here's the neighborhood.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:14 PM
horizontal rule
70

66, 69: First of all, it's not LA, it's in Whittier. Specifically, the neighborhood is basically a middle class suburban neighborhood for Latinos. Second, eb is totally right -- that's a hilly neighborhood and the house is designed for hillside views. Near a pretty decent outside park, for that matter. Third, Whittier itself has a great, walkable downtown that this house is, if not walking distance from, certainly an easy bike ride.

LA itself obviously has its problems with crappy urban design, and that's not a house I would personally choose to live in, but I really am starting to chafe at the people (no one on this blog) without knowledge or understanding of the area mindlessly assimilating a really vast and diverse area into their own preconceived notion of a monotonous suburban wasteland. Northern California, I'm looking at you!


Posted by: robert halford | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:36 PM
horizontal rule
71

70: Interesting defense of Whittier. On the other hand, Whittier might well be responsible for Nixon.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:42 PM
horizontal rule
72

Northern California, I'm looking at you!

But that's me!


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:45 PM
horizontal rule
73

Right, I'm looking at you . . . and thanking you for your comment. (Hides head in shame).


Posted by: robert halford | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:49 PM
horizontal rule
74

I have first-hand notions of monotonous suburban wasteland, thank you very much.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:50 PM
horizontal rule
75

I'm sure it depends on particular Northern Californians. I'm familiar with the type you're talking about. I have relatives in Long Beach who my family would visit once or twice yearly when I was growing up, and now my entire immediate family lives in southern California anyway, and I've lived down there for some lengths of time (but not currently), so I have a bunch of first-hand experience too.

Surely not as much as w-lfs-n, though.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 10:55 PM
horizontal rule
76

The thing is, there's definitely suburban wasteland -- but it's vast. And diverse. And large parts that are neither suburban nor wasteland. It's an interesting place. Maybe because I'm from LA but spent late high school/college/law school years outside of here I'm especially inclined to take on the role as a regional defender. Yes, you can have a city that doesn't look like New York.

Also the full on, totally unthinking, hatred for LA that you sometimes encounter is pretty amazing. I remember during the '92 riots I was living in New England and people would tell me things along the lines of "Wow, I guess that hellish wasteland had it coming." And I would be like, dude, people actually live there, and some of them would be happy if you felt sympathetic for the fact that their house is on fire.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:10 PM
horizontal rule
77

garage dominated home designs

Otherwise known as snout houses. In my fair city, they're banned.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:14 PM
horizontal rule
78

Northern California, I'm looking at you!
If we can't have unreasonable prejudices against our tribal enemies, against whom shall we have them? Besides, that's a nice water/weed supply you guys have got there. It'd be a real shame if intemperate blog comments were to cause anything to happen to them. Bro.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:15 PM
horizontal rule
79

Well, we could always shut off the porn supply, which may be the ultimate trump card.


Posted by: robert halford | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:30 PM
horizontal rule
80

This is where toleration leads. If we can't say that LA sucks, then we can't say that anything sucks. We might as well adopt sharia law.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:40 PM
horizontal rule
81

And then President Obama will have to have extra security upon visiting Kitson on Robertson.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 11:46 PM
horizontal rule
82

we could always shut off the porn supply

What? If there's one thing that's a global commodity, it's porn. Way more than water ffs


Posted by: mealworm | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:54 AM
horizontal rule
83

the name "Varejao" is meaningless to me

Varejao's the one with the hair.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 5:15 AM
horizontal rule
84

In other ongoing-disaster news: after torturing him, etc. the Pentagon now won't charge Al-Qahtani. Of course they'll still keep him locked in solitary for (perhaps) the rest of his life.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 7:16 AM
horizontal rule
85

Rob Halford's on the side of the angels (which, hey Judas Priest, had to figure). Or city of... no, I hate that fucking construction. Fuck you, Anthony Kiedis.

Anyhow, when you're building on a steep hillside and putting in someplace to put your car, that's kind of how you have to do it. Leave aside for a second the wisdom of (a) building on steep sandy hillsides in an earthquake/mudslide/wildfire zone and (b) building every house with a place to put the car; in terms of the architectural problem at hand, that house solves it very well.

If you want to hate LA go ahead and do so (but really, it's a lot better than you think); the fact that the culture is too often oriented around private pleasures (such as the delightful view and backyard that house probably has on the downhill side) rather than public, shared spaces is unfortunate, but c'mon it's not like LA is the only city to have developed less than lovely strategies for parking cars.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 7:27 AM
horizontal rule
86

This>/a> is a continuation of the patterns.

1) Obama running against boomers
2) Obama supporters slavishly defending him
3) Jeralyn Merritt is no longer "one of us." Since Charly Carpenter criticizes the Obama in comments, I wonder how long before he is no longer considered a decent human being.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 7:38 AM
horizontal rule
87

Since Charly Carpenter criticizes the Obama in comments

Where?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 7:42 AM
horizontal rule
88

Bob you couldn't even take the time to find a politics thread?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 7:42 AM
horizontal rule
89

Tim don't do it, man.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 7:43 AM
horizontal rule
90

Oh, okay, in Bob's defense, I had forgotten that Obama was mentioned as possibly being the antichrist. Bob's actually on-topic!

He's utterly misreading Hilzoy, and extrapolating a hell of a lot from what Carp actually said, but anyhow.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 7:47 AM
horizontal rule
91

87: Found it.
89: My bad.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 7:47 AM
horizontal rule
92

86, 88: And really, Bob, you have to admit this was a pretty substandard effort, I give it a mercy C-.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 7:47 AM
horizontal rule
93

Jeralyn Merritt is no longer "one of us."

I used to enjoy reading talkleft, but it has become a Clinton propaganda machine. It doesnt address issues with the same force as it once did.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 7:52 AM
horizontal rule
94

I'm sure she'll be one of us again soon enough, though. As will everyone, when the party unites.

Everyone except poor Bob.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 7:55 AM
horizontal rule
95

Okay dammit I tried and I tried: how awesome is it that Bob is, at this late date, trying to introduce the idea that not getting hung up on the conflicts of forty years ago is bad for the Democratic party? Very awesome.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:09 AM
horizontal rule
96

I dont care that she supports Clinton. My objection is that she has sounded like George Stephanopoulos and Charles Gibson at the debate.

I guess I just expected more substance from her and talkleft.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:09 AM
horizontal rule
97

88: Bob you couldn't even take the time to find a politics thread?

Yeah, this is the NBA thread. Speaking of which, do you have the video in 65 set up as your screen-saver yet, Tweety?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:10 AM
horizontal rule
98

That really was informative, JP. I had no idea LeBron was a good basketball player!

Enjoy it while you can; if I were you I would be darkly prophesying doom for the Celtics in the next round if they continue to be unable to win on the road.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:13 AM
horizontal rule
99

Hilzoy's a little bit off in her first defense of Obama, methinks.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:14 AM
horizontal rule
100

Because Kobe is reasonably convinced that never happened, Cala?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:16 AM
horizontal rule
101

Yeah, mostly. I posted over there, but I don't think the 'if you're a protester who didn't be mean to veterans, he's not talking about youuuuu' doesn't really work as a defense if you presume that the group of hating-war-so-hated-veterans is either a fiction or so small as to be unrepresentative.

(Similarly, 'if you're not a girl who aborted her baby to fit into her prom dress...' or 'if you're not actually a black lazy person on welfare driving a Cadillac....' are likely to be non-starters, too.)


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:22 AM
horizontal rule
102

Well, but it is the narrative, and changing a narrative about events of forty years ago, in the middle of a national political campaign, when those events are totally tangential to what you're trying to do, seems like a bit much to ask.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:27 AM
horizontal rule
103

when those events are totally tangential to what you're trying to do

Wrong. Obama running against (lefty) boomers, blue collar workers, and the elderly is the most important part of his strategy.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:31 AM
horizontal rule
104

Well, but it is the narrative, and changing a narrative about events of forty years ago, in the middle of a national political campaign, when those events are totally tangential to what you're trying to do, seems like a bit much to ask.

Don't forget to do it in a pithy, sound-bite kind of way that is appealing to the voters!


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:32 AM
horizontal rule
105

Yeah, I think her second defense works just fine. He's addressing a relatively conservative group of voters, he's trying to do a good thing for himself politically by painting Dems as the ones who care for returning veterans, and to do a good thing by actually doing that once in office, etc. But this 'he didn't actually SAY it' line is a bit much.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:33 AM
horizontal rule
106

If we can't have unreasonable prejudices against our tribal enemies, against whom shall we have them?

This is terrible, regressive, narrow-minded thinking, and really kind of moronic.

Also: CELTICS SUCK !! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:34 AM
horizontal rule
107

Obama running against (lefty) boomers, blue collar workers, and the elderly is the most important part of his strategy.

I expect this from Bob, but as John Cole said, it's been pretty sad to watch Jeralynn Merritt lose her mind.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:35 AM
horizontal rule
108

How about "in reality, very few people treated the Vietnam War soldiers poorly. Those who claim otherwise are incorrect. But, let's give these veterans excellent benefits!"


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:35 AM
horizontal rule
109

103: Obama running against (lefty) boomers, blue collar workers, and the elderly is the most important part of his strategy.

'Cuz he's one crazy nigga! Kanye look out!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:37 AM
horizontal rule
110

Jeralynn Merritt, the new Dick Morris.

Ok, so maybe not that bad. But, she is angling for a place on Fox as the token "liberal blogger/lawyer," put on to trash Democrats.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:38 AM
horizontal rule
111

108: "what you believe isn't true. Believe me, instead!"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:40 AM
horizontal rule
112

How about "in reality, very few people treated the Vietnam War soldiers poorly. Those who claim otherwise are incorrect.

What I would really love is another election where we refight the fucking Vietnam War.

It's enough to make *me* want to throw boomers under the bus.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:40 AM
horizontal rule
113

112 gets it exactly right.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:41 AM
horizontal rule
114

How about "in reality, very few people treated the Vietnam War soldiers poorly. Those who claim otherwise are incorrect.

I don't know about spitting on vets, but it was pretty difficult to ignore all of the "Homeless--Vietnam War Vet" placards. Who knows how many of those homeless actually were vets, or by what process those vets became homeless, but I'd call that mistreatment.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:42 AM
horizontal rule
115

I mean, really, we're 8 years into a whole new fucked up war. Isn't it time we refocused?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:42 AM
horizontal rule
116

Apo and Sifu are wrong.

We have so much to gain in this election by arguing over the narrative of the Vietnam War. Karl Rove says that if we argue over that topic, the voters will vote for Democrats. So it must be true.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:44 AM
horizontal rule
117

What I would really love is another election where we refight the fucking Vietnam War.

Since we are already replying the Vietnam war in Iraq, seems like now is as good a time as any to do it in the election.

Don't worry Apo, I think there will only be than one or two more replays of Vietnam after this one before either the American empire completely collapses or we are both dead.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:46 AM
horizontal rule
118

If Obama is making the 'even if one person spat on a vet, that is one too many' claim, then it's cheaply buying into the Republican frame and also has nothing to do with his speech. He's got to be talking policy and probably with a collective failure to worry what happened to the vets once they got home.

I wouldn't call that the result of war protesters confusing their hatred of the war with hatred of soldiers.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:48 AM
horizontal rule
119

118: ah, you make a good point. I bought too easily into Bob's framing.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:52 AM
horizontal rule
120

And I agree 100% with apo. Vietnam's over, boomers. And half of you protesters grew up to be Republicans. Time to let something else be the topic of an election.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:52 AM
horizontal rule
121

And half of you protesters grew up to be Republicans.

And even after starting war after war, they STILL cannot consider themselves to have repented for that hateful and foolish anti-war opinion they once had.


Posted by: Ardent reader | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:53 AM
horizontal rule
122

Early on in the stem cell debate, some bioethicist or another said "I really hope this doesn't just wind up being a reply of the abortion debate." Of course, that's exactly what happened.

You can't avoid these things. All reproductive debates become the abortion debate. All debates over imperialist wars of choice become the Vietnam debate. You just have to accept these things.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:57 AM
horizontal rule
123

But both the abortion debate and the Vietnam debate, as we now understand them, are less than fifty years old. What did debates over imperialist wars of choice become before that? The Gallic Wars debate?


Posted by: Ardent reader | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 8:59 AM
horizontal rule
124

All debate is divided into three parts.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:01 AM
horizontal rule
125

Alcibiades Sicilian expedition.

Based onmy research the one book I've read, the abortion debate as we know it began in the mid 19th century specifically as a backlash against the first wave of feminism.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:03 AM
horizontal rule
126

I think I have mentioned this previously, but many abortion providers believed that they would be out of a job long before now due to advances in medicine.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:06 AM
horizontal rule
127

Rob's right about the Sicilian expedition.

The second half of the Aeneid can be read as a critique of the imperialist venture.

Aeschylus' Persians?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:06 AM
horizontal rule
128

All debates over imperialist wars of choice become the Vietnam debate.

The circs have changed a lot, and Vietnam is pretty inapposite. Note that when the war was being sold, it was sold as WWII redux.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:07 AM
horizontal rule
129

Note that when the war was being sold, it was sold as WWII redux.

In McCain's vision of Iraqi occupation, he cites Germany and Korea.


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:09 AM
horizontal rule
130

All wars are sold as WWII. It is perceived as the only morally unassailable war in US history.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:10 AM
horizontal rule
131

130: well, except the first one.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:10 AM
horizontal rule
132

And half of you protesters grew up to be Republicans.

Generational slurs are fun but destructive. I deleted one.

During the Vietnam era a lot of the fundamentals of American foreign policy were called into question. The various establishments were terrified, and they spent the 35+ years and at least a billion dollars rolling things back with a flood of propaganda, until finally American militarism was unchallenged.

What I don't like about Hillary (and Bob) is that she's one of the militarists. What I don't like about Obama (and his fans) is that they seem to think that the problem / issue can be wished away. One thing we should have learned from the Iraq War is that we learned the wrong lessons from the Vietnam War. But that hasn't happened yet, and it may not happen at all.

I think that people are hoping that Obama can sneak something good in without saying anything, but I really doubt that. If he doesn't beat the hawks, either they'll beat him or they'll recruit him.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:11 AM
horizontal rule
133

||
Sorry, just hiked my ass up what passes for a hill hereabouts with a load of groceries, so I haven't read the intervening thread. Can we LOLcusts yet?
|>


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:11 AM
horizontal rule
134

If he doesn't beat the hawks, either they'll beat him or they'll recruit him.

You don't beat them by arguing with them. You beat them by firing them.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:14 AM
horizontal rule
135

The hawks are in public opinion. He can't fire George Will.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:15 AM
horizontal rule
136

speaking of imperialism today, this article on the candidates' positions on Guantanamo is actually useful. Mainly, I think, because it's written by a reporter who covers Guantanamo & not by a D.C. freak show correspondent.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:17 AM
horizontal rule
137

Haven't you been paying attention to the new special powers that belong to the Presidency? He can have the CIA waterboard George Will, pour encourager les autres. And broadcast his screams of agony on everyone's tapped phone lines.


Posted by: Fatrman | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:18 AM
horizontal rule
138

What did debates over imperialist wars of choice become before that?

Who lost China?

If there's one thing that's a global commodity, it's porn.

It's about damn time for some porno Appellation Contrôlée laws.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:19 AM
horizontal rule
139

138: Domaine San Fernando 2002, very nice.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:21 AM
horizontal rule
140

I've been working for Obama; this time last week I was a "legal observer" for the campaign at a polling place in Indiana. But it took me awhile to come around to him because of things like this.

I've come to trust his politics, even when it shades the truth on issues which we've worked for years, and have direct and personal experience. What Charley and Cala were saying at OB is true, and worth saying. I don't read either as giving up on Obama's promise, just as being chagrined about it. That's about where I am.

Dismantling the war machine will be the work of years, and sure can't be done head-on from where we are now.


Posted by: I Don't Pay | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:27 AM
horizontal rule
141

ObWi


Posted by: I Don't Pay | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:28 AM
horizontal rule
142

131: Whiny tax revolt. Also doesn't count because nobody died except for Crispus Attucks and he was black. At the battles of Trenton and Princeton, Washington was able to web the Hessians up in the corner and leave them to be discovered by the local police.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:33 AM
horizontal rule
143

Heh, I read 142 and looked out my window at the very spot where Crispus Attucks died. History comes alive!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:35 AM
horizontal rule
144

I think the pre-Vietnam model of the unnecessary war was WWI, actually. Not that the US entered, but that it started at all. It was attributed by many to excessive nationalism, secret treaties, conniving arms dealers, etc. (When JFK was in a dovish mood, he cited Guns of August.) The opposite of WWII in "lessons for the future" terms.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:36 AM
horizontal rule
145

143: d00d if u have zombies outside the window u should run.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:37 AM
horizontal rule
146

139: San Fernando has lived off of its reputation for too long. Their recent offerings are blends of inferior product that could not stand up on their own. Might I offer you a Frankfurt?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:38 AM
horizontal rule
147

145: it's okay, I'm up pretty high.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:38 AM
horizontal rule
148

147: d00d i seen that movie zombies come up the stares.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:40 AM
horizontal rule
149

it's okay, I'm up pretty high.

wrong thread.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:40 AM
horizontal rule
150

I read that as "it's okay, I'm pretty high" at first.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:41 AM
horizontal rule
151

148: I completely set up a black zombie/vertical leap joke there, but did Anti-zombie Youtube Cala take the bait? No she did not.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:42 AM
horizontal rule
152

Sometimes you get the low-hanging fruit, sometimes it gets you.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:44 AM
horizontal rule
153

150: I'm not sure that counts as a misreading.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:46 AM
horizontal rule
154

Heh, I read 142 and looked out my window at the very spot where Crispus Attucks died. History comes alive!

That was a different Crispus Attucks, not the drifter in your crawlspace.


Posted by: Ardent reader | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:48 AM
horizontal rule
155

Hell, this ain't about veterans or Iraq, it is about pre-emptively marginalizing those groups who could get in the way of President's Obama agenda.

Not About policy Anymore

Now when did Ezra Klein switch from talking about the best & most fair health care policy to counting votes? Is he the guy who will know what Snow & Nelson will find acceptable? How will he know, talking to staffers?

Ezra is preparing the ground for:"I know this health care plan isn't perfect, but it is the only plan that could have passed. Do you want to wait another twenty years?" It isn't Republicans he will be, is planning and expecting to be, arguing with next year. Ezra plans on arguing with the demographic groups Obama is working on marginalizing.

Ezra may be getting a new job next year.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:03 AM
horizontal rule
156

The videos linked in 65 ensures Kevin Garnett will be remembered by future generations of basketball fans.

Soon after Obama is elected he will have to fish or cut bait on some very basic questions about our military policy (as in: imperialist or no?). I think he'll probably be better than Hillary in this area, but that's less because I trust him than because I trust her even less.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:11 AM
horizontal rule
157

155+

Now, that Klein considers it essential to change from policy to politics before the nomination is even settled is interesting, and tells me two things. Klein has been shown the contours of the plan already, and understands that there are wide swatches of the Democratic Party that will find it completely unacceptable.

But Obama will not be Clinton, and what will be unacceptable is not a bad, mediocre, or harmful health care plan, but a crushing defeat early in Obama's first term.

Obama is more important than health care. Obama is more important than any number of sick, dying, or financially stressed Americans. What is important in America is Obama. Obama, and what Obama wants, is America. The rest can get out or just die.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:13 AM
horizontal rule
158

I don't like this for trojan horse type reasons.

-washerdreyer

[Trojan? Should've gone in the Michelin thread!]

[This is fun, but I don't think I'll do it again.]


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 11:36 AM
horizontal rule
159

Bob, I find you more sane and reasonable than the average Republican. Please don't make me associate you with Pet/ey.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 12:56 PM
horizontal rule
160

157: you meant "swaths", not "swatches".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 12:58 PM
horizontal rule
161

160:Thank you.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 1:17 PM
horizontal rule
162

Bob is definitely less sane than the average republican.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:44 PM
horizontal rule
163

160: Ah, so sweet Tweety, saving one little baby bunny from the raging wildfire.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 2:51 PM
horizontal rule
164

I just cannot wait to put on that crisp tailored uniform, and the jackboots, oh yes especially the jackboots, and begin stomping on the faces of anarcho-syndicalists forever.

I don't mean you, bob. You're one of the good ones.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 2:14 AM
horizontal rule
165

LOCUST!!!!


Posted by: Marcus Fenix | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:28 AM
horizontal rule
166

I'm surprised at you, David. The average Republican prays for Armageddon, believes that the countries of Western Europe are impoverished and Communist, thinks that preventive nuclear attacks would be a good idea, and believes that discretionary domestic spending is 80% of the US federal budget and should be eliminated entirely.

We've just heard so much of that stuff (even you guys in Sweden) that it doesn't seem insane any more.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:34 AM
horizontal rule