Re: This is not contrarianism

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Whatever, ersatz Hitchens. The Collins is sweet, and lacks the bite of quinine. G&T forever!

The sweet, fizzy drink of champions is the dark & stormy. So beautiful.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:48 PM
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I blame the cognitive surplus.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:52 PM
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What kind of gin, gin lovers?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:53 PM
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I hate gin, I must confess. I guess I really don't much care about the longer-term fate of the Empire.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:56 PM
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I like lots of things that are bitter but still can't warm up to tonic.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:56 PM
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As of tonight, Tanqueray Rangpur gets my endorsement.

Just like baa to excoriate the collins for sweetness, then praise the dark and stormy for that same quality. Next: he rejects a proffered gin rickey, saying it's too sour.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:57 PM
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still can't warm up to tonic.

Ok, I'm no longer in love with you. Rest easy, snark.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:58 PM
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I recognize it as a character flaw, at least.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 9:59 PM
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Hm, true. So: perhaps redeemable.

And in the meantime, more tonic for me.

Love: restored!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:01 PM
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Ok, I'm no longer in love with you. Rest easy, snark.

Quinine cures both malaria and the roving eye.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:02 PM
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Citadelle and ordinary Tanqueray are my gins of choice.


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:05 PM
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Basic Tanqueray, more subtle gins are wasted on the tonic. For the non-alcoholic quinine yumminess there's always Bitter Lemon.


Posted by: tkm | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:06 PM
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The dumb thread likes to drink Diet Dr. Pepper while sitting on the couch by the railroad tracks.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:07 PM
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Youse is all a bunch of poseurs, of course. Gin and tonic just tastes like the perverse inverse of some kind of health-inducing and health-enhancing medicine. Up the Empire, Memsahib!

Please don't make me start quoting from the British war poets. I get all choked up over the 'Anthem for a Doomed Youth.'


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:10 PM
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That's a lot of capsaicin. I'm guessing it was nearly unpalatable?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:12 PM
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Actually, it was pretty good.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:13 PM
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Huh. Although I suppose serranos aren't all that hot.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:14 PM
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A vodka collins is superior to a tom collins but only because vodka is superior to gin. Despite my general hatred of pro-artisan posturing (as opposed to my own simple love for the homemade), I propose that a collins made from scratch with either liquor will beat either other liquor poured into store-bought "mix."


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:16 PM
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only because vodka is superior to gin

What heresy is this?


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:18 PM
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YOU FOOL! THE HABANERO IS NOT A GREEN CHILI!


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:25 PM
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So you could paint it green.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:26 PM
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it's driven the poor tom collins near to extinction.

Huzzah! Only the gin drink that is dying of thirst is worthy of civilization.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:29 PM
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It does look to be a delicious dish. I am glad it turned out.

I am under the impression that you are eating a lot of lamb lately. Is this impression mistaken? (Not that eating a lot of lamb would be a bad thing. Just surprising.)


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:30 PM
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A Tom Collins is a gin and tonic, but with lamb?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:31 PM
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(And if you want some sweet with your curry, might I suggest a chutney. Unless you seek to drive chutney to extinction.)


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:31 PM
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ok, that works


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:32 PM
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Also, a habañero doesn't hang on the wall.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:32 PM
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so, my current state of affairs: my ankle is the size of a softball thanks to a tennis incident, and i've drunk enough liquid painkiller (jack daniels) that my peanut butter crunch* isn't making it into my mouth in an entirely dignified manner. Amazingly, no spills, which I count as a decent achievement even while sober.

*I spent long hours making a traditional bolognaise ragu, but now i can't stand long enough to boil noodles


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:35 PM
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You could hang on the wall, like a habañero.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:38 PM
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at least then i wouldn't have to climb stairs


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:40 PM
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What heresy is this?

All revealed truth was once heresy, I'm sure. One time I drank a whole bunch of vodka and later I explained to anyone who would listen that God had spoken and told me that vodka is just freakin' awesome.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:40 PM
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I am under the impression that you are eating a lot of lamb lately. Is this impression mistaken?

Yes and no. I have been eating a lot of lamb recently, but probably less than you might think, because the last thing I mentioned incorporating lamb was really just using a leg bone and a very small amount of meat as flavoring. (Then I used the other part of the bone with some beans! yum.)

This lamb was on sale.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:41 PM
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May I suggest: my ankle is the size of a softball thanks to a tennis incident an attack by outlaw bikers.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 10:41 PM
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34

I'm drinking Plymouth Gin right now--my gin of preference--in the form of a martini with blue cheese olives.


Posted by: gea | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 11:01 PM
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35

Oh, and dark & stormy is a great drink, too.


Posted by: gea | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 11:05 PM
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36

I promise to do my best,
to do my duty,
to God, my Queen, and my country.
To help other people every day,
And especially to those at home.

When I was 6 years old, I joined the Brownies, with a view to jumping the toadstool and flying up to the Girl Guides.

From the Brownie Handbook, I learned that I was one of the greatest jewels in the Queen's Crown. I never quite bought it, being of an RC persuasion, but I vaguely thought that I somehow should. The meetings were held at what we called "the Protestant school" (the local public school, basically). My father objected loudly and vociferously, and made unfair fun of Tawny Owl, who was a neighbour, but my mother thought the uniform was "cute" (which it was: a brown skirt and blouse, with a maple leaf scarf that was supposed to be tied just so, and a belt with a change purse! o how I loved that change purse, and couldn't wait to pay my weekly dues...).

I got a badge for learning to braid my own hair, and also the writer's badge and the skater's badge for doing figure 8s on the Rideau Canal. Which my mother duly sewed onto the brown sash that was part of my "cute" uniform.

But mostly I never really felt comfortable, and always knew that I didn't really belong there.

There was this story in the Brownie Handbook about Barbara and Ann (never Mary Catherine, of course, which I already, of course, understood, even when I was 6 six years old) cleaning up their treehouse or whatever the f*ck, and being rewarded by the brownies (or whatever you want to call them, but they were not at all like the little beings with which my father's relations were used to scare me: man, those wee critters were not so much '"cute" as downright fucking terrifying) leaving them chocolate brownies and lemonade as a justly-earned reward.

Ha! I never ate chocolate brownies until I moved to the States, and that lemonade was probably just a stand-in for gin and tonic...

Just sayin', of course.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 11:16 PM
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37

Vodka and soda, or gin and cranberry. WTF is a Tom Collins anyway.


Posted by: stroll | Link to this comment | 05-13-08 11:22 PM
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Look, no one likes G&Ts, but how else is one to stave off malaria? One must do one's duty.

Whilst doing one's duty, one is advised to imbibe Bombay Sapphire. Plymouth Gin is also acceptable, and Gordon's if you're down on your luck.

Finally, that was an interesting curry recipe. I'm not familiar with Assamese cuisine.


Posted by: W. Breeze | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 12:26 AM
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Gin and vodka both have their place I guess but the one true clear high nigh-tasteless alcoholic drink has to be jenever. Oud, jong or bessen.


Posted by: Martin Wisse | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 12:27 AM
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I like Plymouth. I keep meaning to take up drinking gin on a regular basis at home as, like, a thing. It's a lot cooler and probably more satisfying than yanking a few brews out of the fridge on a weeknight.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 12:31 AM
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I really like the Tanqueray Rangpur. And Plymouth. And Hendricks. What I'm saying is I like gin.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 12:37 AM
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habañero

I espy an extra tilde there, but then, I'm down with the gente.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 12:46 AM
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43

I just put that in there to fool people.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 12:55 AM
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The risks of too much G&T. Which isn't to deny that it's the drink of the gods. And now I've got a minor blogcrush on AWB for appreciating Plymouth.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:17 AM
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Gin was the blogging of the Industrial Revolution. Everyone here should love it.


Posted by: W. Breeze | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 2:16 AM
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Gin & tonic is too bitter for me, usually. That's TD's drink of choice. I should try Amber's drink of choice, Tanqueray and tonic, which has some citrus it appears. But I have to say, a Tom Collins sounds delish. Let's celebrate my passing of the oral (and no more jokes about that, w-lfs-n) by drinking some on Sunday. Probably before we go see the weird Italian bass thing.

True, it was a very short oral exam. But advancing to candidacy feels awesome, as advancing to a stage where you can work yourself to death usually does. Huzzah! So let's get drinks!


Posted by: Belle Lettre | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 2:24 AM
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Just like baa to excoriate the collins for sweetness, then praise the dark and stormy for that same quality.

As a famous bartender said: "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth."


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 2:29 AM
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Careful what you wish for, w-lfs-n. It seems that every classic cocktail comes back into fashion, but in a slightly adulterated form. The martini was dead, dead, dead (for anyone under 60), and then became all hip again--as a vodka drink. The gimlet, too, is more often than not made with vodka these days. I fear that the same fate would befall the poor Tom Collins.

Also, Wolfi, a guy like you needs a classic signature cocktail that is well known enough by bartenders not to mark you as weird or foppish, but uncommon enough to set you apart as the unique snowflake you are. (The bourbon old-fashioned serves this purpose for me.)

Finally, a wonderful stand-in for a Tom Collins on a hot summer day is a tall, narrow glass of gin and Newman's Own pink lemonade with a splash of seltzer. It's best drunk as a thirst-quencher when you're slightly dehydrated after doing yardwork in the July sun, so that you get that wonderful "Oh shit, I'm drunk off of one drink" feeling.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:35 AM
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I recognize it as a character flaw, at least.

Hey rfts, I hate quinine-based drinks*, too. You gotta stand proud and reject the tyranny of bitter. Evolution gave us the aversion to bitter tastes for a good reason.


*Except Schweppes bitter lemon with vodka, the only vodka drink I really care for.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:38 AM
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48: sounds like a girly drink. NTTAWWT.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:41 AM
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36: The Canadians are nationalistic about everything, even cute little girls.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:43 AM
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sounds like a girly drink

That's one of the reasons it's best drunk in the privacy of your own backyard, rather than being ordered from a bar.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:50 AM
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||
Not all the election results from last night were bad. For example, my HS classmate who was running for the Democratic nomination for sheriff (after which the general election is a mere formality) was soundly defeated. Had he become the chief law enforcement officer of the county, every stereotype of brutal, ignorant, racist cops would have been instantiated.
|>


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:54 AM
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Fact: My great great Grandfather's name was Selzer. His wife's maiden name was Wasser. What are the odds of that?

And he was a brewer too. Unfortunately, I've found that he wasn't the brewer who arranged to have the prohibitionst killed. That was Sioux City's other brewer.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:54 AM
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36 is fascinating.

I was Wolf Cub and Scout in Canada, and a Scout and Explorer in the US, and was an active parent when my son was a Cub Scout a few years ago. I never noticed the degree to which Canadian Scout symbols and culture would be dissonant for minorities. But in the US, the very different style of Nationalism certainly makes it easier for them: the troops and packs I've known in the US scouting have often been heavily Catholic. "Super-Patriotism," my dad's name for what I encountered in the US, took some getting used to.

Probably local conditions had a big impact in Canada too. There were certainly plenty of Catholics at Scout Camp, where we were mixed together. That was were I first encountered meatless Fridays and other aspects of pre-Vatican-II Catholic practice.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 6:27 AM
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Garrison Keillor claims that he was the oldest second-class scout in Minnesota, but he's a liar. I was. I couldn't see the point of that shit. They didn't kick me out because they needed a quorum to have a troop, and without a troop the ambitious kids ) kids from ambitious families) couldn't become Eagle Scouts. There were five or six my age in Wobegon.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 6:32 AM
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one is advised to imbibe Bombay Sapphire

I second this advisement.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 6:45 AM
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Quite a fan of the Sapphire myself. Though why one would dilute it with tonic is beyond me.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 6:48 AM
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I'm not a fan of quinine either, but my girlfriend drinks G&Ts. Last year's trip to visit my sister in England, however, has put us on a hunt for Indian tonic water, because that's what goes in a G&T across the pond. And lemon, instead of lime. I think if I lived in England I might actually drink G&Ts. If I want gin in easy-to-quaff form, I order (or pour) a gin and ginger.

Our preferred gins are Plymouth (both of us), Hendricks (her more than me), and Bombay Sapphire (me more than her).


Posted by: fedward | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 6:58 AM
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I'm on the G&T-is-too-bitter wagon, but the rest of my family loves Rangpur and Plymouth. The nice thing for AB is that my dad, sister, and SIL consume so much when they visit that they do all the providing.

Where do y'all find Bitter Lemon? I think I've seen it in stores that sell British things, but not otherwise in the States. Am I blind?

Also, Wolfi, a guy like you needs a classic signature cocktail that is well known enough by bartenders not to mark you as weird or foppish, but uncommon enough to set you apart as the unique snowflake you are. (The bourbon old-fashioned serves this purpose for me.)

My drink is a bourbon gimlet, but I've found that most bartenders, and all servers, just blink at you when you order it, so I instead describe what I mean. Which AB, on our first date, took to be an attempt to impress her. Then she learned that I basically drink them like water, whether anyone else is around or not.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:03 AM
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Also, Martin: genever is so yum. But mostly unavailable stateside.

And: what ginger beer do y'all put in yr dark & stormies? I used to use Stewart's, but that was really too sweet, and now it's not even available for some reason. I find most of the schmancy ginger beers to be too gingery, even astringent. Reed's is OK.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:06 AM
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That curry recipe looks delicious. I will have to try making that.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:11 AM
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I can only drink weak, bitter drinks. Given strong whiskey and cokes, I'll be drunk in less than an hour after drinking four of them. Sipping is for pansies.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:15 AM
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has put us on a hunt for Indian tonic water

I've been trying to track down better tonic water, as yet to no avail. Apparently there are boutique tonics with more quinine and less sweetness (and no high-fructose corn syrup), but they haven't turned up around here, as far as I can tell. There's at least one bar in town where they make their own. Broker's is a good gin, BTW, tasty enough for a martini but inexpensive enough that one needn't feel extravagant mixing it with tonic.

As for the recipe, what with the marinating and long cooking, I'd opt for goat. In fact, I think I'll do just that.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:22 AM
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Mmm, Plymouth. You can make some bitchin' mixed drinks with Plymouth.

64 is intriguing. Artisanal tonic water: who knew! I wonder if this would fit the bill?

Bombay Sapphire is of course tasty, but I've just had so darn much of it.

That drink w-lfs-n recommended a while back? The Southampton, with tonic, lime, and Angostura? It is indeed tasty, and way, way better with Peychaud's bitters in it.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:28 AM
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We have a signature house drink, concocted in a pinch when we bought a large bag of limes and subsequently discovered a shortage of tequila:

THE MARGARET THATCHER
1.5 oz gin (preferably Plymouth),
1 oz Cointreau,
1 lime.

Juice the lime, then rim a cocktail glass with sugar. Shake all liquid ingredients with ice, then strain and serve up.

Per The Joy of Mixology this would appear to have the name the Big Pine Key, and only the lack of bitters separates it from the Pegu Club, so I can't really consider it original (and substitute tequila for gin and salt for sugar and you have my margarita recipe, so Bob's your uncle). I have asked a number of bartenders, though, and none of them have ever come across a drink with those three ingredients. And we like our name for it better than Big Pine Key.

We also perform a gin substitution in Bloody Mary drinks, which some bartenders may know as a Red Snapper. The above book says a Red Snapper is with vodka, though, so ordering this as a "bloody mary with gin" seems to produce less confusion overall.


Posted by: fedward | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:30 AM
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Looking into it, retailers near me as well as at least one near Jesus appear to stock Q Tonic, another fancy-ass tonic water.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:36 AM
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The above book says a Red Snapper is with vodka, though

In which case it differs from a Bloody Mary how, exactly?


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:37 AM
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more quinine and less sweetness (and no high-fructose corn syrup)

Oh, this would be a dream.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:38 AM
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69: I shall pick us some up presently! Available pretty close to my office!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:40 AM
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Expensive as shit, as one might imagine.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:40 AM
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Huh, apparently the whole foods brand tonic water uses cane sugar. Have to look into that.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:41 AM
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Wow, that is expensive. I could do without the "bottle as beautiful as the liquid it holds" if it were cheaper.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:43 AM
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74

A moment's more research reveals that we are but amateur gin and tonic nerds.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:43 AM
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Stirrings is a more reasonable, although not flavored with Agave (?!?).


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:44 AM
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i never tried lamb, no chance, coz we don't eat animal youngs
i've eaten veal 2-3 times at the cafeteria, then looked it up, mostly try to eat fish, salmon or whitings every other day coz don't feel like eating beef, it seems to me that my hair is getting like lighter partly b/c of that may be, partly of graying of course, may be i'll colour it black
but i eat sometimes liver, b/c of iron in it, coz maybe it will correct my light anemia, can't stand iron tablets
my friend, a dutch, he says he never could eat it b/c of all those toxins that might be accumulated
and i'm trying to avoid red meat, don't like how it tastes here, though back home i eat it ok
just once a month then eat liver and intoxicate myself up, so no use, i mean it's like craving


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:45 AM
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Mmmmm. Fructose. If I can't get mannose, that's what I use.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:46 AM
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Thanks, Tweety, one of those retailers is just down the street. And it's supposed to be 90 degrees on Friday—weather conditions call for gin and tonics!


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:46 AM
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68: The Bloody Mary was once known as the Red Snapper (apparently because of the objections of John Astor himself). The author cites a 1945 book (Crosby Gaige's Cocktail Guide and Ladies' Companion), which contained a Red Snapper recipe donated by Gaston Lauryssen, manager of the St. Regis at the time. The difference between what we now order as a Bloody Mary and that Red Snapper is "that the latter contained as much vodka as tomato juice and was served straight up as a cocktail, as opposed to being presented on the rocks in a highball glass."


Posted by: fedward | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:47 AM
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Wait, so you mean you eat liver and then get all drunk? Is the theory that the ingested liver will process the booze, somehow?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:47 AM
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toxins in liver i meant, coz i don't drink alcohol
when we students, we had wild parties, i could drink anything and don't get drunk, had like high buffering abilities may be
now, not so, can't stand its acid like smell


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:53 AM
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The article linked in 74 is good; I like the gin-heavy ratios he recommends. Also: tonic water ice cubes. Why the hell didn't I think of that?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:54 AM
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were


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:56 AM
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At about -80 F. 80 proof whiskey freezes. These ice cubes would cool your drink quickly, and as they thawed your drink would get stronger. The only down side would be occasionally freezing your tongue.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:02 AM
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82: that is clever.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:03 AM
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The only down side would be occasionally freezing your tongue the repayments on the industrial performance freezer to achieve -80F.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:06 AM
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OFE, we don't stint on our artisanal ice cubes around here. You're probably one of those Budweiser-drinking Brit contrarians. Fie on you.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:08 AM
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I believe that whiskey diluted to 20% would freeze at a temp only slightly lower than that of a home freezer.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:10 AM
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A rough half-and-half mix of gin and tonic is how I've always been taught to make 'em. A tad more tonic than gin, maybe, but not much. I always assumed most people (at home rather than in bars) made them that way.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:11 AM
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The only down side would be occasionally freezing your tongue having to run a cryonics business on the side to make the repayments on the industrial performance freezer to achieve -80F.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:11 AM
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Actually you could just buy liquid nitrogen as needed.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:14 AM
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You're probably one of those Budweiser-drinking Brit contrarians.

Don't confuse me with dsquared, you'll fall out with us both. If I want beer, I drink beer. At cellar temperature.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:16 AM
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To Stanley's question: another vote for Plymouth. I take a bit of pride in having badgered my friend who owns the bar I'm always talking about into stocking it. Although the new bottle design is disappointing.

I also endorse the Tom Collins, which could become the drink of the summer. Enough of this talk of fancy tonic-water; which artisanal lemons should we squeeze to make our Collinses?


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:22 AM
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Hm, I am making lamb tonight. And this looks not too spicy for PK. Plus, an excuse to drink with dinner.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:34 AM
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You need an excuse?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:39 AM
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Yeah, really. Dinner *is* the excuse to drink.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:42 AM
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Having children is the excuse to drink.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:52 AM
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What is this "excuse", kemosabe?


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:57 AM
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You people are all delightfully decadent. Alas, I'm not much of a drinker and I'm also the only parent this week. Nonetheless! Drinks it is.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:58 AM
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Actually you could just buy liquid nitrogen as needed.

Good luck storing it properly.

The martini was dead, dead, dead (for anyone under 60), and then became all hip again--as a vodka drink.

Not "a vodka drink". More like "generalized term for any vodka cocktail".


Posted by: Fatrman | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:00 AM
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Meyer lemons, Bave, from the Guru Ram Das Orchards?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:02 AM
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Nonetheless! Drinks it is.

And it's not even 8:00 Pacific time. You're a champ, B.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:02 AM
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A Dewar flask seems to be in the $500 range. Keeping it full of liquid nitrogen would be relatively cheap (in metro areas $.50 / liter). Probably a tinkerer could make a customized thingie specifically for ice cubes.

Fun with liquid nitrogen


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:04 AM
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I'm also the only parent this week.

By this standard, I would only be allowed to consume an alcoholic beverage every other weekend. Thank God I have no standards!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:04 AM
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You people need to think outside the water-ice-cube box. You're thinking like Old Europeans stuck in the 20th century when the rest of the world is pressing toward the 22nd.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:06 AM
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Plus, B, with elevated cholesterol, moderate drinking is good medical advice!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:06 AM
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I got a free sample of Q Tonic last year, because I asked for one on egullet. It's good!

Also, Wolfi, a guy like you needs a classic signature cocktail that is well known enough by bartenders not to mark you as weird or foppish, but uncommon enough to set you apart as the unique snowflake you are. (The bourbon old-fashioned serves this purpose for me.)

But the old-fashioned is another drink that's become woefully adulterated: unless, of course, you only patronize bars where no one would think to include whole fruits or soda water. This is an awesome drink but probably too foppish, likewise, probably, the aviation.

Look, no one likes G&Ts, but how else is one to stave off malaria? One must do one's duty.

Lillet also contains quinine! Also, as I said in the post, the G&T is a fine drink.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:07 AM
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Huh, apparently the whole foods brand tonic water uses cane sugar.

That doesn't prevent it from kinda sucking, though.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:09 AM
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$95 Dewar 2.5 liter flask.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:10 AM
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having children is exactly the opposite to the excuse to drink imo though sure you drink just a bit, not heavily
if you feel responsibility for them
i wish i could drink alone at night as stress relief maybe, can't, i think i won't die from anything short of accident coz don't smoke, don't drink, don't eat anything wrong, though also don't exercise
my coworker back in japan, she could not sleep without having a glass of wine, not much of course and i was all, think about your liver, cirrhosis, coz it's not the amount, it's the regularity of consumption etc


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:12 AM
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Hot ad man Don Draper always seems to order old fashioneds. His sweet blond wife Betty orders vodka gimlets.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:12 AM
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read have you considered taking up hashish?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:15 AM
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93: I also endorse the Tom Collins, which could become the drink of the summer.

Yes! It was the drink of my last summer, and I'm looking forward to it taking the title again this coming season. I don't understand those complaining about it being too sweet. For one thing, the proposed alternative mixer -- tonic water -- is disgustingly sweet. For another, what's stopping you from using less simple syrup? I sometimes make them without any sweetening at all.

Also good: using basil- or ginger-infused simple syrup in the recipe. Kind of gets away from the point of the drink, but it's pretty nice.


Posted by: Tom | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:16 AM
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107: have you had Stirrings tonic? Finding you a signature cocktail seems like a complicated prospect. Maybe you'll have to invent one?

Damn I should really try a corpse-reviver one of these days.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:17 AM
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Probably Jesus' mom (Mary) could get free liquid N2 for Jesus, if she really loved him. But here's a little-known fact: Mary was quite the bitch, and grievously neglected the baby Jesus. It just luck that he turned out as well as he did, if you call being crucified "turning out well".


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:18 AM
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re: 111

Watched that for the first time last night. They do make the old days look pretty stylish.

I'm boring about cocktails. I tend to just order a martini [gin not vodka] or a mule [but the jamaican variety with a mix of dark and light rum rather than vodka].


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:21 AM
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You'd just make a frame holding a bunch of little metal containers with loose lids. Pour in the whiskey, drop it in, and let it sit for a few minutes. A 2-liter Dewars flask would be plenty big, if it had a wide mouth. Then just drop the assembly into hot water for an instant to release the whiskey cubes.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:23 AM
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i'm trying coffee for now, whether i'll develop addiction, but mostly avoid it
hashish, i don't mind to try it once
at the station sometimes people ask me like wanna cake, i suppose it's drug, what's cake heroin? sure i won't


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:27 AM
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The best kind of gin is the kind coming out of the still in your kitchen.


Posted by: bbass | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:30 AM
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Maybe Ben should go the counterintuitive route for the signature cocktail and try something simple. My nominee would be gin and beer, a drink I call the Moosejaw Cocktail because a friend from there introduced me to it. It's simply what it sounds like; you take a light, relatively neutrally-flavoured lager (I'm told Moosejavians prefer Pioneer Pale for the purpose, but others work just as well), pour a shot of gin into it, stir and consume. The result is surprisingly smooth and tasty, and obviously should be consumed carefully since it's a redneck drink designed to get you hammered in the least possible time.

Now, you don't want to call it the Moosejaw Cocktail, of course; that only flies as a joke in Canada. (Anyway, calling it simply gin and beer gives you a clever reference to the Tower of London, should you want it.) But the ingredients involved could be easily dialed up from Redneck Hoser to Moderate Middlebrow in most bars, or even to Expensive Highbrow; it would, for example, be interesting to try it with Mort Subite Gueuze, for example.

Hmmm. I started out this post as a joke, but now I think I'm almost sort of serious about it.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:37 AM
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(Sorry about the extra "for example" in there.)


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:39 AM
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The best kind of gin is the kind coming out of the stilltap in your kitchen.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:39 AM
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You know, gin and beer has a surprisingly long history. Try taking a decent porter, heating it up on the stove and then adding a shot of gin and some nutmeg for the top. (It's called a Dog's Nose - and is in Dickens!)


Posted by: causabon | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:48 AM
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having children is exactly the opposite to the excuse to drink imo though sure you drink just a bit, not heavily
if you feel responsibility for them

Of course. I don't think anyone is advocating getting hammered while caring for your children. But a glass of wine with dinner is, I think, generally responsible. Indeed, it's a good way of modeling for your kids how one can enjoy alcohol responsibly without having to drink to intoxication.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:49 AM
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After making the mistake of drinking a half liter or so of Tanqueray once, I was so sick for the following week that I didn't drink gin again for years. Now that we've reconciled I like it best just on ice on a hot day.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:52 AM
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125: I quit drinking both whiskey and brandy after bad experiences at age 19, and I've never really developed a taste for either.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:56 AM
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"signature cocktail?" How about stapling a peacock feather to your forehead for extra flair?

Coffee and rum are a reliable hot drink in dive restaurant/bar combos, where either liquid by itself is suspect, but passable as a winter combination, doesn't require a capable bartender.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:58 AM
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How distressingly sweet drinks and gin come up in the thread without a mention of (preferably grandma's home made) sloe gin is beyond me.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:59 AM
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126: Gin had that effect on me after a lunch-break fiasco at 13 or so. Took me ages to tolerate it after that.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:00 AM
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But a glass of wine with dinner is, I think, generally responsible. a good idea.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:01 AM
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I went off gin for a while, when, lolling about on a wide green lawn, wearing a sundress and a wide-brimmed straw hat with a periwinkle grosgrain ribbon, watching hot men in dress whites play croquet against other hot folks but of the skinny hipster variety, I drank so so so very much gin that I don't remember much of the rest of that weekend, however pastoral and Waugh-ish it might have begun.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:05 AM
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#127. Lw, everyone needs a signature drink. Anyway, a shot of espresso in a pint of stout is another good winter drink. As summer drinks go, I remain partial to the Papa Doble.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:07 AM
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110: think about your liver, cirrhosis, coz it's not the amount,

No, I'm pretty sure the amount has a lot to do with it too.
Anecdata:
Everyone I've known who's died from cirrhosis=alcoholics.
Everyone I've known who's drank regular, moderate amounts of alcohol=not dying from liver failure.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:09 AM
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Of course. I don't think anyone is advocating getting hammered while caring for your children. But a glass of wine with dinner is, I think, generally responsible. Indeed, it's a good way of modeling for your kids how one can enjoy alcohol responsibly without having to drink to intoxication.

Well said by Di.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:10 AM
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No cad took advantage of you when you were in that compromised state, I trust.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:10 AM
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however pastoral and Waugh-ish it might have begun ... and however Waugh-ish it ended, too!


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:10 AM
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136: Well, precisely. It went from Julia to Anthony Blanche.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:13 AM
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think about your liver, cirrhosis, coz it's not the amount, it's the regularity of consumption etc

read, I'm pretty sure this is wrong on two counts, in that regular (of the glass-of-wine-a-day variety) low level imbibing shows no increase in in cirrhosis occurence, wile irregular binge drinking shows damage pretty quickly. I could be misremembering the first studies though.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:13 AM
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131 sounds like the best weekend of all time.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:14 AM
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133 was me.

I really can't drink gin unless it's in a martini. Otherwise it just tastes too turpentiny for my vulgar Midwestern palate. It's been 9 days since I've had a drink. Unless you count mango lassi (nix on the bhang though), in which case, it's been 8. Also no red meat for 9 days and only about 6 oz of chicken & seafood since then. I guess you could say I'm on something of a health kick.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:14 AM
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"What, ho, old chap! It appears that Cupid has delivered us a periwinkle-bedecked maiden in a compromised state! Would you care to have a go at her?"


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:15 AM
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re: 133

I've drunk regularly [and in non-negligible quantities*] since I was about 12.

Anyway, I had a full liver workup last year [for reasons entirely unconnected to alcohol].

Doctor: Your liver function is great.

Me: really? I used to drink quite a lot.

Doctor: Well, you seem to be thriving on it.

* not like an alcoholic, but like most people in their teens and twenties I was out boozing most weekends in quantities that our government continually tell us constitute a 'binge' and are likely to turn us into morlocks, or something ...


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:16 AM
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It's been 9 days since I've had a drink.

Weird, me too.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:17 AM
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143: If you two keep at it, you'll get a plastic chip soon.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:19 AM
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Bjork claims that binge drinking is an ancient and honored tradition of her people. She seems little the worse for wear. The Scots probably owe whatever good qualities they have, for example drunkenness, to the Viking raiders.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:19 AM
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144: and hang out with those people? Yikes, get me a drink.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:21 AM
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In fact if I keep at it I may well get pants that fit, which is even better than a plastic chip.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:21 AM
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little the worse for wear being crazy. Doesn't she make her own clothes out of hobos' paper bags or something?


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:25 AM
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147: Damn, alcohol is fattening. That's one argument in favor of hashish.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:25 AM
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Damn, alcohol is fattening. That's one argument in favor of hashish. That's another reason to avoid sugary mixed drinks in favor of plain shots.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:27 AM
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(not that this solves the problem, but reduces it)


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:27 AM
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No one here seems to appreciate Bjork. I thought her swan outfit was a perfect sendup of the insane emphasis on the stupid dresses people wear at those stupid non-events, but few seem to have gotten the joke. I also think that her music is unclassifiably wonderful, and her interviews are funny. She seems to have attained real artistic and financial success without playing any of the superstar games.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:28 AM
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152: I adore Bjork.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:30 AM
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152: I think Bjork is fantastic, although her latest couple albums haven't done a hell of a lot for me.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:30 AM
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She seems to have attained real artistic and financial success without playing any of the superstar games.

This is pretty remarkable, even if you don't tend to like her stuff.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:32 AM
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I really like Bjork. Her last album did nothing for me, though. Although I liked the one before a lot [Medulla].

She also looked hot in the swan dress. So it served its function both as a jokey statement and as a piece of hot couture.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:36 AM
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I salute your gin-quaffing good taste, Ben!
Your revision of my Assamese wife's Assamese curry sounds excellent to me, although I must point out that Assamese cuisine is much less spicy than most Indian cuisines. The "Indianized" version I also provided will prove superior for most palates and I concur with your extra chilis & ginger and the use of lamb. Ginger lightens the heaviness and this is a heavy curry. It is also far easier to make than other Indian curries, it is literally fool-proof (I should know!)
However, I would prefer a gin & lime (gimlet) with this curry, this particular libation is well-suited for the heavy, shark-cum-escargot flavor of snark meat!

Cheers! Mahendra


Posted by: mahendra singh | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:41 AM
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Damn, alcohol is fattening. That's one argument in favor of hashish.

As long as you can restrain yourself from scarfing down a whole bag of M&M's and a box of Cheerios when the munchies hit.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:41 AM
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Does 157 count as a Marshall McLuhan moment?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:42 AM
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And it also seems that Bjork is a real musician and not just a cute singer. A lot of her stuff doesn't depend on her vocal contribution. Obviously she works with other people, but her stuff always has a definite character. You see other talented singers go from style to style depending on the producer.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:43 AM
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#152 gets it right. An acquaintance of mine worked on Vespertine. He's got a great story about Bjork lying on the floor of the studio, smoking, and listening to each cut over and over and over to get it to sound exactly like she wanted.

(And the swan dress was hot.)


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:43 AM
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And yes, I'm prejudiced against singers, including cute ones. Sorry, Jesus.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:44 AM
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Julia Reed--the annoying rich Republican who writes for Vogue, got married and moved back home to New Orleans, and made nasty comments on Air America (of all places) after Katrina--wrote a Newsweek column about The Virtues Of A Stiff G&T.

(Don't judge me for reading Newsweek; I was in the doctor's office.)

She's created a cocktail that sounds quite decadent:

Last year I invented a cocktail much like a rickey, but I add a bit of sugar and fresh mint to the lime juice and replaced the club soda with champagne. It is especially good with the relatively new Hendrick's gin, flavored with a hint of rose petals and cucumber. If I do say so myself, it is delicious--and packs a powerful punch.
.

I can't help wondering whether that might not be a waste of good champagne.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:45 AM
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I can't help wondering whether that might not be a waste of good champagne.

I don't wonder at all. On the other hand, it might be a good way of disposing of bad champagne. Is she saying the gin is flavoured with rose petals and cucumber, because if so, there's a new circle of hell in prep. for whoever invented it?


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:48 AM
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Champagne cocktails have a long and storied history, BG.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:50 AM
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re: 160

She does a lot of the string and horn arrangements on her albums. She has a very definite vision, I think.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:51 AM
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139 gets it exactly right, except, obviously, I am not picturing myself in the sundress-wearing role.

I also adore Björk.

And I also like gimlets! Fancy-pants bars make them with real lime juice, but I think the weird funkiness of Rose's works pretty ok!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:52 AM
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My daughter was being difficult yesterday and this morning. I had to carry her to time out and physically hold the door shut because she was hitting people.

But, prior to her hitting, I think we showed remarkable restraint when she grabbed our glasses of wine and poured them down the sink. She knows how to hit us where it hurts.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:52 AM
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Björk is a Stockhausen admirer and has even interviewed him.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:54 AM
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164: If it's bad champagne, it's a waste of good gin. And yes, Hendrick's is infused with rose petals and cucumber. The makers play up its uniqueness with text like, "Loved by a tiny handful of people all over the world" and "Preferred by 1 out of 1000 gin drinkers." It's twee, but the gin is good.


Posted by: fedward | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:55 AM
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Cucumber & gin is a great combination anyway, OFE, so why not distill some in there?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:58 AM
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163: That's essentially a version of a French 76. And yes, OFE, Hendrick's gin is cucumber- and rose petal-flavored, but it's surprisingly good, if peculiar. There are other flavored gins I've been wanting to try, including saffron gin, which is apparently an old idea.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:59 AM
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And yes, Hendrick's is infused with rose petals and cucumber.

It's twee, but the gin is good.

These statement are mutually exclusive.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:59 AM
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Now that summer is upon us it is time for me to switch from scotch to my summer drink of choice, Mount Gay Rum and tonic. For those of you who think tonic is bitter, the sweetness of the rum counteracts. Don't try this with a lesser rum, or one will be disappointed.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:01 AM
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Also, on gin: I forgot to mention regular Tanqueray, which is what I order with tonic for my girlfriend when I'm afraid of what's on the rail. She never orders it for herself but she's always pleased when I do.


Posted by: fedward | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:01 AM
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Look, I'm broad minded here. Cucumber is fine, though I prefer to add it when I'm mixing the drinks. But rose petals? Gaaahhh!


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:02 AM
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173: I was very skeptical as well, based on the marketing, but then I had a Hendrick's martini, and I thought it was really quite good.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:06 AM
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That's essentially a version of a French 76

What's in a French 76?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:06 AM
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Here you are, BG.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:09 AM
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178: Gin and Champagne with a little lemon or lime, basically, and often simple syrup and/or Cointreau.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:09 AM
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Saffron gin. WANT.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:12 AM
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OK, Bjork has been worshipped here adequately for my purposes. I had some doubts about the Unfoggetariat, but I can see that I was wrong, praise the Lord.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:12 AM
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||

Some may be interested in this long appreciation of James Kelman('s new novel) in the London REview of Books.

|>


Posted by: Auto-banned | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:12 AM
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133 the amount matters sure
but i remember also something on low regularity maybe not leading to cirrhosis but fatty liver which is also degeneration if reversible
i like Bjork's only one song, others don't


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:15 AM
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179 and 180: Thanks I looked for "French 76" (I guess it's 75) on drinkoftheweek.com and couldn't find it.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:15 AM
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cake is cocain i looked up, did not know


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:17 AM
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Sure you didn't, read. This innocent act doesn't fool us; we know you've been smuggling Peruvian flake in by the kilo.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:19 AM
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185: Some sources claim that a French 76 is a French 75 with vodka substituted for gin, but in practice the two appear to be interchangeable and equally meaningless to your average hipster bartender.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:24 AM
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but i remember also something on low regularity maybe not leading to cirrhosis but fatty liver

Yeah, I remember something like that too. It seem the literature isn't very solid on low-moderate usage. It's really only solid on prolonged, high use.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:26 AM
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re: 183

Looks interesting and the tone he's adopted for it is laugh out loud funny. His stuff can be a bit bleak, mind. A Disaffection is one of those 'hits you where it hurts' novels.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:28 AM
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It's really only solid on prolonged, high use.

Hey, who isn't.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:29 AM
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French 75s are named after an artillery piece for a reason. Some friends and I once had to re-do New Year's Eve because French 75s had demolished the original celebration.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:29 AM
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A "French 76" sounds like a name for a sexual position to me. Maybe I'm just not getting laid enough.

IIRC a soixante-huit in French is auto-fellatio (soixante-neuf moins une)


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:38 AM
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Nothing against Bjork's music-- when it's good, it's really good (Telegram was really good), and she clearly has an independent vision. But she seems nuts. Continued work product without caving in to the celebrity machine argues against that, though, good point, so I'll reassess my superficial impression.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:47 AM
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most of my favorite people are nuts.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:50 AM
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Wow, if I ever take up drinking again I'll try to find some of that saffron gin. Looks beautiful.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:54 AM
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I aspire to being as nuts as Bjork. The hour is growing late.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 11:55 AM
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I adore a French 75. My father, the old school, white shirt, black vest bartender eschewed such things (like so many of you above) as a waste of good liquor, but I do find them lovely, especially on a warm, leafy day like today.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 12:03 PM
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It's never too late, JE.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 12:05 PM
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167: Ben: you would have fit in perfectly as one of the skinny, bookish beating-Navy-at-croquet Johnnies.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 12:05 PM
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200 is me, duh.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 12:06 PM
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I aspire to being as nuts as Bjork.

These nuts were made for Björkin'
And that's just what they'll do
One of these days my nuts are gonna
Björk all over you.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 12:06 PM
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178: Gin and Champagne with a little lemon or lime, basically, and often simple syrup and/or Cointreau.

That's a french 75.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 12:15 PM
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Men -- even those with vanishingly low sperm counts -- ejaculate more healthy sperm if they masturbate while watching sexual videos than if they do it while staring at the ceiling. And the effect doesn't stop there. Men shown explicit pictures of a woman with two men (potential rivals) produce a higher proportion of swimming sperm than men shown explicit pictures of three women.

Life is so unfair. When I used to sign up to be a test subject in college in exchange for $5 or $10, it generally involved filling out a survey, or at best solving little brain teaser problems.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 12:24 PM
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I quite like Aviation gin--it's flavor base is "Juniper, Cardamom, Coriander, Lavender, Anise Seed, Sasparilla, and dried orange peel" and it's damn tasty.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 12:38 PM
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Oops. 204 should have been posted to the Monkey Ball thread.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 12:39 PM
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Seagram's or Burnett's. Seagram's is better, but Burnett's is almost as good, and considerably cheaper. Tanqueray is nice, too, but a bit too pricey.

Bombay Sapphire is gin for vodka drinkers. Not that I dislike vodka, but if I'm in the mood for a gin drink, which is every afternoon right after work, I want it to have some flavor.

Can't stand the quinine, though. It's gimlets or martinis for me.

Or my own creation, from when I found myself with a bottle of sweet sherry my wife had purchased for some recipe, which is terribly cloying by itself: the Sherry Bobbins. One shot of gin, one shot of sweet sherry, and lemon juice.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:19 PM
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Apparently we've found the unhijackable topic.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:23 PM
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I like zadfrack's comment, because as I traversed it, I began with an initial sense of skepticism, then found myself largely in agreement, then was a bit confused (but willing to ascribe that to healthful difference), then abruptly realized I was agreeing with an alien.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:23 PM
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208: what, booze? Well, yeah.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:24 PM
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DK is clearly a danger to her children.

I do drink about a drink a day. Problem is, I'm also on anti-ds. So basically one drink = light buzz/moderate drunk, depending on how fast I drink, how much I've eaten, blah blah. Last night I had a beer--one fucking pilsner, people--with dinner and then went to go lie down at 6:30.

Then, of course, as I commented in some thread, I realized that if I "took a nap" then no one would get PK in bed or clean the kitchen, so I swore and got up and did those things myself.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:24 PM
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B that's what you get for eating so early.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:25 PM
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I do drink about a drink a day.

In one of these.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:26 PM
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Last night I had a beer--one fucking pilsner, people--with dinner and then went to go lie down at 6:30.

It's hard getting old.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:28 PM
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I like how the 64-ounce drink at 7-Eleven costs about 20% more than the 16-ounce drink. my guess is that the average purchaser of the Gulp, non-Big variety, is over 70 years old. everyone younger is blinded by the luxury and opulence of acquiring a week's supply of liquid all at once.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:28 PM
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Hey, I'm not 70 (yet), and I always order the small damn soda. Otherwise I just end up having to pee fifteen minutes later.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:34 PM
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DK is clearly a danger to her children.

Well, yes. When I start seeing more than one, I know it's time to stop drinking.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:36 PM
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quite right, DK. No need for the tyke to come up to you seething with jealousy over all the attention you lavish on her nonexistent siblings.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:38 PM
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I'm also on anti-ds. So basically one drink = light buzz/moderate drunk, depending on how fast I drink, how much I've eaten, blah blah.

I had heard that the combination of alcohol and Paxil was an enjoyable buzz, so I looked forward to taking Paxil. But I don't notice any discernible synergy. If anything, my alcohol tolerance may have gone up a bit.


Posted by: Gustav Stresemann | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:39 PM
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Bombay Sapphire is gin for vodka drinkers.

That's interesting, as, in fact, I do opt for the vodka more often than the gin. Still, this Aviation thing mentioned above -- that I need to try.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:39 PM
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I don't understand the implication in 207 that Sapphire is flavorless. Sapphire is an overwhelming mess of flavors and aromas (the NYT panel called it jangly), as opposed to just a couple. e.g. Bulldog, which just tastes hot to me, or Tanq 10, which I find leaves no impression at all. We also managed to finish a bottle of Boodles (bought when our boozeria was out of Plymouth), and I couldn't remember what it tasted like even immediately after finishing a martini, although I wouldn't describe the experience as unpleasant. With Tanq 10 I was offended that I'd spent as much as I had in order to taste so little.


Posted by: fedward | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:51 PM
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I do like Aviation as well. It's a more subtle than Seagram's/Burnett's/Tanqueray. Good for a martini, but not the taste I'm looking for in a gimlet.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:56 PM
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When ordering dirty martinis at my favorite bar in LA, I order Tanqueray unless the one bartender who makes this absurdly, fearsomely strong is working, in which case I order Sapphire. Whether that argues for zadfrack's point I'm not sure. Sapphire is probably my favorite gin to drink straight, not having had much experience with straight Plymouth or [ other ]. I had a brand of British gin once that was just unfathomably wonderful, but I can't for the life of me remember the brand, and I'm really not sure if it's available here.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:57 PM
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s/b "a bit more subtle"


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 1:59 PM
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"this" s/b "drinks"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 2:00 PM
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208: Even my brilliant and completely practical invention of the 80 proof whisky-ice-cube did not derail the thread. This is as bad as a Harry Potter thread.

The whiskey-ice-cube would start off at -346°F and would only thaw at -83°F, so on a picnic you could use it to cool your icechest. Once it got down to about -90°F you could put it in your drink.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 2:13 PM
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But I think that it finally has killed it! Maybe the troll union will give me a prize!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 2:31 PM
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the reason i find Bjork songs unpleasant
her voice sometimes sounds like as if one draws with something metal on the glass
not my ideal of harmony
i've been to pathmark to buy some dry milk and there were a lot of pre-bottled cocktail mixes
which sounded very familiar from unfogged, i just did not pay any attention before
don't know how good those are though if to try sometimes


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 2:31 PM
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No, John, I think you are on to something. What sort of mixed drinks would the various Potter characters drink?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 2:33 PM
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the


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 2:33 PM
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How awesome would it be if the last comment in the thread was "the"?

Oh, darn.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 2:48 PM
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of


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 2:48 PM
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scar!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 2:54 PM
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gin


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 2:57 PM
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Let's stick to function words, folks. No nouns, verbs, adverbs, or adjectives.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 2:58 PM
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gin


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:00 PM
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mister


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:01 PM
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chilled vodka with twist, no ice cubes. Haphazard use of the articles is second mark of slavic language speakers also.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:03 PM
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235: okay


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:04 PM
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239: however


Posted by: I'm Not Arguing | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:06 PM
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D'oh


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:07 PM
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Wha...?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:15 PM
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212: Hermione would drink cider. Neville Longbottom I take for a drinker of weak lagers. The Weasely twins will drink anything, as long as you're buying, but they are especially partial to Slivovitz Snape is a bordeaux-drinker, while Dumbledore sneaks sips from a flask of Irish whiskey hidden in his desk drawer. Cho Chang usually doesn't drink, but when she does, it quickly escalates to body shots from between Ginny Weasly's tits.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:22 PM
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not only slavic, coz in my language we do not use the articles and japanese also don't have them
but i found recently one substitute to the in my language
maybe it's the n put after nouns meaning that particular thing
like 'aav n' means the father, that father, so from now on it'll become easier i hope to use the
though then the sentence sounds like in informal speech
for a i did not find any equivalent yet, it's totally redundant imo if you know there is one thing not two, to say a thing


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:24 PM
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I do like Aviation as well. It's a more subtle than Seagram's/Burnett's/Tanqueray.

I was referring to the Aviation, the drink, not Aviation, the gin.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:33 PM
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245: have you tried a Toronto yet? A possible quality signature drink, although so often made wrong.

Actually now that I think about it a drink that everybody was always fucking up might be perfect for you, as you could then correct them.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:40 PM
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The Weasley twins drink slivovitz?!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:41 PM
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Actually now that I think about it a drink that everybody was always fucking up might be perfect for you, as you could then correct them.

Yes! That's it. For bonus points, it should include at least one non-phonetically spelled ingredient, so that Ben can correct the barkeep's pronunciation as well.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:43 PM
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CHIMPEACH


Posted by: OPINIONATED GRANDMA | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:44 PM
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246: Nope—I might the next time I'm at a suitably swank bar, if I can remember, though.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:45 PM
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indefinite article: I want a drink (plural some drinks).
definite article: I want the vodka cradled in her bellybutton.

Allows to distinguish whether there is a particular, touchable instance being spoken of, or whether it's still a possibility. Realizing that "some" is the plural of "an" was the key for me.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:46 PM
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re: 251

definite article: I want the vodka cradled in her bellybutton.

Next think you know, you'll be in La Casa Blue acting out scenes from Samotari.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:52 PM
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248: Pousse-café?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:53 PM
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251: My brother, the wine consultant, calls sauternes and certain dessert wines "belly button" wines, because it is there from which they are best drunk.

Isn't Cho Chang Scottish? Shouldn't we re-appraise on that account?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:55 PM
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253: Those are awesome! My dad would make them to amuse me when I was little.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 3:56 PM
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funny examples
Thank you, Mr.Lw.
so i can't say 'i want drinks'?
another difficult thing is the verb tenses or spryajenie? i always mix when it's kupila (bought)and pokupala (have bought?) is it correct?


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 4:00 PM
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My brother, the wine consultant, calls sauternes and certain dessert wines "belly button" wines, because it is there from which they are best drunk.

So M-D 20/20 would be an asscrack wine?


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 4:00 PM
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The guy who makes Aviation, the gin, not Aviation, the drink, also makes an absinthe on the side (sadly, not for sale). Really great, and given the very pleasant high it induced, I think it's the real deal.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 4:04 PM
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I had some of this absinthe at a party recently. Pretty good.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 4:08 PM
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257: Open sore?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 4:09 PM
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I see! so the fact that "box wines" are sold in a box, that's a coincidence, leading to one of those folk etymologies.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 4:16 PM
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259 -- hey, that's the same one I bought a couple of months ago!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 4:22 PM
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Not to lurch drunkenly back on topic, but G&T is pretty much my favorite drink. Personal favorite is Sapphire & Tonic, two limes, in a roughly 1:4 or even 1:5 ratio with the tonic. At the right proportion, the Sapphire ends up almost meltingly smooth on your tongue -- there's no alcoholic bite at all, nor the "resinous" quality that a lot of people dislike.

Beyond that: Tanq Rangpur is good, as is Hendricks and Citadelle. [Regular Tanq and even Tanq 10 are bland IMO.] But damn, do I want some of that saffron gin.

Most improbable drink I know with gin that actually tastes good: the Skip And Go Naked. A shot of gin, a pint of beer -- something light and fruity, like Blue Moon or Spotted Cow around these parts -- some sour mix and some soda or sprite. Much like a G&T, the proportions depend heavily what you're making it with, though.

And finally, a bevy of thumbs up for the blue cheese martini. Truly one of the greatest drinks of all time.


Posted by: Anarch | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 4:27 PM
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The bourbon old-fashioned serves this purpose for me.

As I've previously explained, my preferred cocktail is a Manhattan. Every single bar in which I've ordered one in the last six months - except for the sushi place around the corner from us and the Beerskellar at UnfoggeDCon 2 - has either told me they don't know how to make them, they don't have sweet vermouth or they've served me nigh-undrinkable swill.

Wrenae gifted us with unbelievably lovely bourbon on Super Tuesday and I still haven't gone and bought any sweet vermouth or bitters (I have, however, had a good deal of the bourbon). I think I'm going to go to the ABC store right now.

Mount Gay Rum and tonic

I don't go for the low-hanging fruity drinks.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 4:30 PM
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For many, many reasons I am the last person on Unfogged who should be opining on mixed drinks, but this book from 1948 The Fine Art of Mixing Drinks looks like it might be of interest to folks on this thread (and maybe it is such a classic that everyone but me knows of it or owns it already).

Some of his "Six Basic Drinks" surprised me:

The Martini
The Manhattan
The Old-Fashioned
The Daiquiri
The Sidecar
The Jack Rose


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 4:57 PM
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Which ones?

Arguably the daiquiri and the sidecar are variations on the same theme, but who knows what he meant by "basic".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:08 PM
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The Jack Rose is a very popular drink at the Pegu Club. Everything old is new again. Nihil nova sub sole.

(Need help with that, Ben?)


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:13 PM
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Nothing is new under my feet.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:14 PM
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267: The Sidecar and The Jack Rose, just based on my having no idea what they were. But trust me when I say that my surprise, or lack thereof, means absolutely nothing in this arena.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:16 PM
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267 s/b 266


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:17 PM
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268: Cala is right! She gets a gold star!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:19 PM
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167: There are no novas underground? No novas underfoot?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:31 PM
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The Jack Rose is in Vintage Spirits and Forgotten Cocktails and looks great, but what really looks great in that book is, no lie, the Pink Lady.

Also the Pegu Club itself is an old drink, so it's fitting that at the eponymous bar old drinks would be popular. I had a different old drink the one time I was there (Last Word) and it was quite good.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:53 PM
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Here we can read that the Last Word is "Attempting to knock the Aviation off the internet cocktail dork throne".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 5:54 PM
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The Sidecar is a really good drink that is often way too sweet when ordered at a bar. The fact that it's apparently supposed to have a sugared rim doesn't help matters.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 6:00 PM
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273: they make a delicious Pink Lady at Deep Ellum.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 6:00 PM
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Aviation, the drink

A great favorite of mine, though I only drink it at home.

It's weird and disheartening how difficult it can be to get a decent Manhattan in many bars. Get with it, everyone!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 6:14 PM
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273, 276: Well, it makes the "Best Girly Drinks of All Time" list.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 6:16 PM
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That's not a real pink lady, which ought to have (a) no cream and (b) some applejack.

Also, those "measurements" are laughable.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 6:18 PM
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273: Ben, sweetheart, the drink is eponymous, not the bar.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 6:55 PM
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The bar was named after the drink.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 6:56 PM
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Actually, it just occurred to me that I'm not sure what that means as far as which is eponymous.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 6:56 PM
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It seems that oudemia is probably right.

CURSES


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 6:57 PM
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R.E.M.'s album Eponymous is named after the band, if that helps.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:00 PM
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It is all about the lack of punctuation after "CURSES". It truly gives it that certain something.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:01 PM
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284: so does the "E." stand for "Eponymous", then?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:02 PM
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The first Pegu Club, the officers' club on Burma, would have been eponymous, if that makes you feel better.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:03 PM
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Nothing can make me feel better.

:(


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:05 PM
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"eponymous" is the opposite of "namesake".

(namesake in its role as an adjective, of course)


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:07 PM
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Yeah, ordering Manhattans in a bar is playing with fire -- they very often suck. (I was once served on with an olive in it. ???) Annoyingly, though, I also make them badly. The only reliable source I have for well made Manhattans is my mother, and she only makes them on Thanksgiving, when they are traditionally drunk by the pitcher. Like the Pilgrims did.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:26 PM
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I neglected to mention that the name of Aviation, the gin, was inspired by Aviation, the drink, just in case there was any question about that. I should also add as a teaser that if there's sufficient interest, I can arrange for a distillery tour in conjunction with a Portland meetup. Two, actually, if people want to visit Clear Creek as well.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:28 PM
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So M-D 20/20 would be an asscrack wine?

Careful with those cracks, bucko.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:30 PM
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That is nearly sufficient to make me want to visit portland, when I didn't before, Jesus.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:31 PM
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What more can I offer you, w-lfs-n?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:33 PM
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282: Ben, oudemia is wrong. Eponyms derive from persons; neither a bar or a drink can be eponymous. (Yes, that means you're also wrong, but at least you're not alone.)


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:33 PM
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Maybe a suicide girl or two?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:34 PM
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Annoyingly, though, I also make them badly.

Snark is an excellent Manhattan maker. Come to Cleveland!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:34 PM
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DS and w-lfs-n, do you distinguish between et cetera and et alia? Just curious.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:35 PM
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I don't run in those circles these days myself, but I'm sure that can be easily arranged. Would you like a stripper, or just some random randy Reedie?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:37 PM
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298: I've always understood the first to mean "and so forth" and the second to mean "and others."


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:39 PM
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I was reading a usage book recently and it had et cetera defined as "and other things" and it was explicitely listed in contrast to et alia as "and other people". An eponym being limited to derived from persons made me think of these terms.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:46 PM
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298: I do.
"et cetera" = and the rest
"et alii" = and others

A Reedie will do fine.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:47 PM
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"et alia" for "other people" is weird, because "alia" is neuter.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:49 PM
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An hautbois reedie or a bassoon reedie?

Did global warming kill the trebleoons?


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:51 PM
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A bassoon reedie would be a double reedie, but that's ok, because I'm not worried about my sperm count.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:52 PM
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Come to think of it, one does mostly see et al. used in the context of persons. I didn't know that was a hard and fast rule, but it could be; wouldn't be surprising if the English usage was a little different from what the Latin would technically suggest.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:53 PM
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A Reedie will do fine.

That's been my experience, but they're thin on the ground in summer. Anyway, say the word and I'll get my people on it.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:54 PM
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Weird. "Et alia" was what got drilled into my head. Often abbreviated as et al. But, checking shows that et alii and et alia are both "acceptable". I will follow the b-wo fatwa on this. Et alii from now on.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:55 PM
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I love how the latter part of this thread seamlessly blends the equally pernicious vices of wenching and grammatofascism.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 7:58 PM
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I say, and not only with fond nostalgia, that my dear departed father made the best Manhattans of all. So very smooth.

*sob*

But CA would back me up.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:02 PM
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Vices? You mean w-lfs-n's strengths.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:02 PM
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311: The very same. One has to admire a man who draws his strength from vice instead of virtue.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:04 PM
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so i can't say 'i want drinks'?

Here, among friends, you can say this. It's grammatical (in contrast to "I want drink") but sounds rude-- maybe it implies that you want an unusually large quantity of drinks, or have little respect for the person you're addressing.

The English words for the Russian tenses you mention are perfective/imperfective. My Russian isn't good enough for me to say much about points of grammar, but I think imperfective generally indicates an ongoing action or an action at an uncertain time. However, I know покупил is ordinary past tense for a person speaking, though купил is used in the business press, so this verb is a special case, a different example is better, попил.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 8:14 PM
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another difficult thing is the verb tenses or spryajenie? i always mix when it's kupila (bought)and pokupala (have bought?) is it correct?

I'm a bit rusty on Russian grammar right now, but I think kupila can mean both "bought" and "have bought" depending on context. pokupala would mean "was buying" or "bought (repeatedly or regularly)".

I don't think I can explain this without making things more confusing, but the distinction between the two verbs is called "aspect." As lw says, there's perfective - kupila - and imperfective - pokupala. In English the different aspects end up being expressed in different tenses, but aspect is not quite the same thing as tense: kupit' and pokupat' can both be used in the past and future tenses. But only pokupat' can be used in the present tense.

Perfective verbs like kupit' usually* indicate completed, discrete actions: "I bought a drink" "I have bought a drink" "I will buy a drink." Imperfective verbs usually indicate processes or habitual actions: "I was buying a drink" "I used to buy a drink there regularly." This is why pokupat' and not kupit' can be used in the present tense: if you're currently buying something, you're in the process of buying it. By definition it's not a completed action.

This seems like a good explanation of aspect, which gets into more details of usage.

*I say usually, because there are other contexts where you use one aspect or the other, as the link above explains.

Oh, and it looks like "spryajenie" just means conjugation. Aspect is вид (see definition III).


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 9:04 PM
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It is worth noting that I make a fine Manhattan but not a great one and that tonight, at any rate, I have made functional ones. Manhattans by the pitcher warm my heart to hear of them.

Colbert just made Norquist look ridiculous by interviewing him.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:06 PM
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Rye and Peychaud's, Robust. It's like magic.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-14-08 10:14 PM
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perfective - sovershennui vid, imperfective - nesovershennui vid spryajeniya, got it
with the examples though it gets more confusing
with the Russian verbs i have no problem can spryagat' it however i like
the English verb tenses are so difficult, so when you say bought and have bought are both kupila, i get confused
thank you both, Lw and Eb


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-15-08 6:38 AM
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