Re: Ask The Mineshaft: How Big A Fool Edition

1

Oh, dear. I think the total incoherence of the IM's is a plus, rather than the reverse -- whatever anyone says about in vino veritas, if you can't even type coherently, it can't be all that much your fault.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:13 PM
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I've written worse. And while sober. (But I do try to spell check. And I guess its part of being several generations before texting from cell phones, but I can't read much of the first entries). Being sentimental and in love may not be at all cool, but being cool is vastly overrated.


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:14 PM
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About a 7 on the Mikey scale.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:16 PM
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This doesn't rise to the level of ritual suicide; simply moving to another city and changing his name should suffice.


Posted by: Hamilton Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:18 PM
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And at least it's all kind. Presumably if she turned him down already, she knows how he feels, so he's not any more exposed than he was already, and he didn't say anything that wasn't perfectly decent. Sappy, but drunk is an excuse for sappy where it's not an excuse for mean.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:20 PM
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In texto veritas.

It's worth a couple blushes. I think someone needs to come up with a program for phones that is essentially Drunken Accident Protection: if you're too drunk to type your password, you're too drunk to activate speed dial or access your buddy list.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:20 PM
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I may be rating harshly but I first read I should have hanelobre as I should have handjob.

But really it is the fact of repeat IMs rather than their content that offputting. HL has it about right in 4.

... but on further thought it was probably the girl's fault she should have revealed all of her intentions and current status when he asked her out.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:21 PM
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The second comment of course, is a nonsequitur since this was a computer. But at least you're not going to drunkenly IM your boss.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:21 PM
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Wow-this person should get a brethalyzer attached to the phone and keyboard. A lot of people, actually. Why did Lenovo waste time with their little fingerprint scanner when there are pressing needs like this?


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:23 PM
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... but on further thought it was probably the girl's fault she should have revealed all of her intentions and current status when he asked her out.

I'm thinking preparing business cards with all relevant information, updated constantly, to be handed out to any man who speaks to her should be sufficient to satisfy the woman-on-the-street's obligations in this regard, no? Or am I letting her off the hook too easily?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:26 PM
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It's not that bad. If the two remain friends, she should save them, print them out, and then five years from now e-mail the greatest hits to him at Christmas. (One friend from college had a series of drunken conversations with my away message in college. It's priceless.)


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:26 PM
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About a 7 on the Mikey scale.

I once drunkenly drafted a post-hookup email asking where the relationship stood that included a link to that video. Once I started going meta and writing about how I wasn't sure whether linking to that video was charmingly or embarrassingly self-deprecating I realized it was time to give up and go to bed.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:27 PM
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Oh, man, that scene from Swingers rates as the most toe-curlingly painful scene in all of film.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:31 PM
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This kind of stuff is totally baffling to me. I don't think I've ever been that drunk. My take: purposeful typographical incoherence for later plausible deniability.

Not a bad strategy, come to think of it.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:33 PM
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10: Or am I letting her off the hook too easily?

As long as it contains all relevant information on any STDs I think that is about right. The stickler might require for current menstrual status, but the technology is not quite there, maybe put a red dot in the corner when appropriate.

11: Actually, it all does depend on the nature of the relationship and the behavior exhibited when in person. She will probably be e-mailing then to somebody.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:33 PM
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7: I should have hanelobre

I immediately thought of Questionable Content's crazy OCD girl Hannelore.


Posted by: Hamilton Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:35 PM
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Me too. I'm a sucker for soapy comic strips.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:35 PM
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It's not that bad. He doesn't say anything gross or mean, and he comes across as quite likable.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:35 PM
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Wow-this person should get a brethalyzer attached to the phone and keyboard

This need has been addressed.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:38 PM
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Yeah, there's worse things than being revealed as a sappy nice guy.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:38 PM
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20

True, but few things are worse for a young man's love life.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:50 PM
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Objectively, 5 is right.
Subjectively, 4 is right.

Sadly, the person responsible for this car wreck can only view it subjectively (this decade, anyway. He may be able to chuckle over it once he reaches his dotage).


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:50 PM
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Imagine a robot operator listening to your calls, his robot hand at the ready, waiting to disconnect you when you call her at four a.m. to tell her that you should never have let her go, that you think about her breasts sometimes, about that hollow where her neck cups up behind her ear, sometimes you think too much, are you there? You bitch. I'm sorry that I let you go. I should have followed. I can't bear to think of you with him, piercing and laying his flesh on your - DISCONNECT.


Posted by: Dr. Zeuss | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:52 PM
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He should commit ritual seppuku immediately.

Barring that, he is obviously required to never, ever, contact this woman again. Ever. *If* for some inexplicable reason she ever contacts *him* again, he is to feel inordinate gratitude, which he is only allowed to express much, much later in the form of some brief comment about being "glad you didn't put any stock in those horrible emails I sent once." Best, however, to never ever mention it and just live with the shame.

(All this said, I have a very dear friend to whom I once upon a time sent letters more or less akin to the final email there. Luckily this was in the days before email, so the letters were few and far between. And the reaction of my dear friend was to completely ignore them. Indeed, for many years I didn't hear from him at all. We renewed our friendship after years of noncommunication during which, presumably, we both forgot about said letters. In any case, we've clearly tactily agreed that they never existed.)


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:55 PM
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tactily

Felictily.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 12:56 PM
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Oh dear.

The Now Show had a sketch the other month about the magic SMS kangaroo that appears when you're drunk and encourages you to send messages of this kind.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:02 PM
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cute messages, but if i read it correctly it was not sent, right?
or the sent portions are incomprehensible
so nothing to be embarrassed imo
and she's heartless if responds to this not agreeably
BphD's friend should have acknowledged the letters in some or other way, imo
i'd prefer some kind or reprimand, though not ridicule, to total ignoring


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:03 PM
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21: Girl's already said she's not interested. A much worse IM drunken conversation would have revealed him to be violent misogynist asshole. Drunkenly confessing how muchh he is in lurvvvve and hopes she's happy? Eh.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:03 PM
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of


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:03 PM
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It's not that he's made himself a fool, but that he's made it all too clear (absent any other evidence) that he doesn't actually want to be friends, because this "friendship" is wayyyy too meaningful to him. (Very different case, of course, if this is between two very intimate long-term friends who faced a "should we date one another" crisis, which it doesn't look like this is.) Drunk and sappy, fine, but this is not someone I'd be comfortable around socially, knowing that he's likely to get drunk and wax sentimental about his hopes and dreams for my happiness. If you actually want to be friends, be cool and lay low.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:04 PM
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Well, this totally hinges on the word "friends."

Are they good friends? Have they been friends a while? If so, he's allowed much more drunken leeway in texting & emails, as crushing on a friend is excrutiating. And telling them about your crush is even more so. And he's in a position to know that she is, in fact, fanfuckingtastic.

If they just met a couple weeks ago, maybe been on a date or two? She says she wants to be "just friends," and he responds by telling her how the air crackles with her greatness? Um, dude. Totally inappropriate, and meriting therapy, if not seppuku.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:05 PM
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28: F. just said worse for a man's love life. Which it is. I mean, you have to consider the effect on him, which is COMPLETE AND UTTER MORTIFICATION AND SHAME.

This is not conducive to the state of mind necessary for successful mating rituals.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:05 PM
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"I will be happy as long as you know you deserve happiness!"

Also, this is really fucking condescending. You didn't choose me, so you must secretly hate yourself, you sad little girl!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:06 PM
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24: Wait! In the "We were all HS losers" thread, you insisted, over and over, that no one should have any fear of making a fool of himself romantically. I almost even made reference to that in my 22, but I didn't want to do so when you hadn't commented yet.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:06 PM
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31 is correct. If they're good friends, then the likely outcome is that, if kind, she will ignore the emails and never, ever mention them. If they're not? Ritual seppuku.

Which is totally why I said, don't contact her again until and unless she contacts you. If she's a friend, she will; if not, she won't.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:09 PM
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34: Asking someone out or bravely expressing an interest is a very different thing from making it plain that you're not letting it go.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:09 PM
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32: He said few things are worse. I think a lot of things are worse than revealing yourself to be a sap with someone who already doesn't want to date you. Utter shame and mortification wears off.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:09 PM
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This is not conducive to the state of mind necessary for successful mating rituals.

To the contrary, entire civilizations have been built on mortification and shame.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:10 PM
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36: Good point.

Although I'm not 100% convinced that the content of the messages is the sole source of humiliation.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:12 PM
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I think AWB is being a little harsh. Guy probably *does* really want to be friends; the question is whether or not he can gracefully do that (right now) and whether or not the girl can gracefully deal with his lack of grace. And yes, a lot of the email can be read as a little bit ego-driven, as per 33, but you know, wheen drunk and in the throes of self-pity, we're all a little bit ego-driven.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:16 PM
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6: in textu veritas. (textus is fourth declension)


Posted by: mark | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:16 PM
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Ah, but I was doing fake Latin off the English ''text''.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:17 PM
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So much of a man's ability to date depends on his self-confidence, which is why this is hell on a dude's love life. About 10 years later, he'll be able to look back and laugh, but until then it's pretty rough.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:18 PM
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Not to mention turning a mildly uncomfortable situation (asymmetric interest) into a more uncomfortable situation (public infatuation/fear of stalking).


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:20 PM
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Well ok. But why do fake when there is real? (Am I demonstrating [yet again!; I could write a book] that which needs no demo. namely, that Classics profs are teh unfun? Probably.)


Posted by: mark | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:21 PM
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you having fun?--- please let me spoil that for you! Fix you right up.


Posted by: mark | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:22 PM
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Don't worry mark, we're not-laughing with you not at you.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:24 PM
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34: Sure, and I'd do it again, and in fact, when I was making those comments, I was thinking of the exact same long, long-term crush-on-friend that I'm referencing in this thread.

Not being afraid of making a fool of yourself doesn't preclude being mortified after the fact. My point is that, assuming good intent and human decency, we all have to go through this stage in order to learn how to do these things gracefully, that doing these things is not the end of the world, etc. Think of it as the way that young children fall down a lot when learning to walk. Sure, you could try to avoid falling; but you'd learn to walk a lot later in life.

Basically, it's a choice between (1) hitting your 30s with having had some mortifying moments *and* possibly some relationships and even friendships with the very same people you've mortified yourself in front of, having become a person with a certain sense of humor at one's own past and failings (said sense of humor itself being charming)--i.e., becoming 30 and being comfortable, more or less, in your own skin; and (2) hitting your 30s having avoided all mortification, possibly having had a relationship and friendships with a few people who, like you, are quiet and reserved, having become a person who still takes all this stuff perhaps a little too seriously (by my account)--i.e., becomcing 30 and not being terribly comfortable in your own skin, but having learned to deal with that. Of the two, I think (1) is preferable, largely because in my experience/opinion, the person who chooses (2) is likely to have a much more limited social circle.

That said, obviously some people are by nature 2s rather than 1s. Wever.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:24 PM
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40: Fine, maybe he does want to be friends, but I would be very wary, as the woman in this situation, as to the terms of that friendship. I got caught in a situation like this in December, and it fucking sucked. Someone I only half-know from grad school confessed his attraction to me, and I responded by saying that it was flattering, that he was attractive, and all of that, but there are about 9,000 reasons why I don't want to get involved with him. (He has a boyfriend but is in an open relationship, he's slept with my best friend and was really clingy and demanding with her, he's in the closet about his attraction to women so it would all be secret, etc.) We decide at a party that we'll be "friends." Later that night, he kisses me, and I make it really clear that I'm still not going to date him, but I'm not going to slap the guy. He ends up following me home and trying to get me to take him up to my apartment (and at this point, I'm not sober enough to give consent anyway, not at all). But I say no, and then get emails all the next week about how desperately he wants to be my friend, that he understands totally my situation, all he wants is more time around me, etc. I just don't see anything like that turning out well. We didn't have a "friendship" before; why would we develop one now, on the basis of him having a really serious problem not propositioning me every half hour?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:25 PM
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Oh, no reason. I could do real, but my Latin is pidgin at this point unless we're talking of the oldest of the old old men and maybe about dividing things into three parts, and I'm in a cafe enjoying a coffee and thinking about types.

I figured I didn't really need the Latin dictionary to make a joke.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:25 PM
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Utter shame and mortification wears off

This isn't true. It just fades into the background, to pop up much less frequently.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:27 PM
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49: I figure the guy gets a bit of a pass for one IM session and one e-mail. This isn't the same as soberly gooing all over the e-mail for a week. It's not even comprehensible enough to read an agenda into it.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:28 PM
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Condescending?

Don't you think that you are being a bit harsh? The guy was drunk and entirely too emotional.

But, I will wait for more information about him before I declare him a condescending jerk or needing therapy.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:28 PM
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49: Right, but you're projecting (by your own account) your own reaction in a similar situation onto this one. It is possible that this guy and the woman in question do know each other better than you and the guy in your story, nu? And that, other than the fact of mortifying emails (a near universal experience), the specific details--all of which are necessary to interpret the situation--are completely different?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:29 PM
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Alright, you win. Young man, may your dick forever remember this mortification anytime you try to get it up, because in these days of 24-hour-IM access, you are the only one who has ever done this, to this girl or in general, now and for all time. Amen, and may you hate yourself for ten years.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:30 PM
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I agree with the Cala in 52. I'm not suggesting that AWB isnt correct to be cautious.

Clingy and overly emotional people can really be a pain in the ass.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:31 PM
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one IM session

Were text messages part of an actual conversation, or were they sent to someone's "away" message? This makes a big difference. If the former, then the woman obviously likes this drunken dork a lot, and it will probably all turn out fine. If the latter, then again, it all depends on whether she knows him well enough to read it as "drunken dork" or whether she doesn't and reads it as "omg GO AWAY."


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:32 PM
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Cala,

Just because it's silly and irrational doesn't mean that it isn't painfully real at the time.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:32 PM
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this whole thread makes me want to cry. though i doubt i've ever risen this level of drunken romantic badgery, it's just a matter of time. every single time i'm drunk my first thought is, "lets write a long heartfelt email and/or send a barrage of adorably incoherent text messages to the One That Got Away."


Posted by: bend | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:34 PM
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Listen, I'm not saying he's a jerk, or that he needs therapy. I'm just saying that he sounds like someone who is possibly really unaware of himself, or what it might sound like. The few comprehensible sentences I get out of these messages and emails sound like he's not happy with this situation at all and is pretending to be fine with it.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:34 PM
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55: Also uncharitable. No one is saying this, come on.

IMHO, the mere fact that Drunken Dork (hereafter to be referred to as DD) sent these texts and email to *Ogged*, to be posed on this website, suggests that DD has a pretty decent sense of humor, nu?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:34 PM
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61:
Yeah. That's pretty impressive.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:35 PM
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I really should be working, but I think that the likelihood that they are, in fact, Really Good Friends is pretty low given the emails we see here. Having confessed my Romantic Feelings for at least two really-close friends, and having been rejected both times, I have some experience in this matter, and usually, the "I hope we are still friends you are soooooo great please validate meeeee" emails are unnecessary. You talk, you feel embarrassed, you act a little awkward for a while, all the time knowing that within a few weeks or a month eventually it will get back to normal and you can forget about the whole thing.

Anyway, the whole "I Just Want You To Be Happy And Find Someone Awesome" thing is bullshit. It's self-satisfied self-aggrandizing fake crap. Having crushed hard on a friend who said he didn't want anything more than friendship and getting rejected, the first thought is not "I hope he gets to be happy in life" but "dammit, I shoulda kept my mouth shut" and "why not me? I'm rad!"

Thus, in going on and on about her happiness (and being condescending), he reveals himself to be a fake tool.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:36 PM
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Somewhat OT: It was suggested upthread that there needs to be a breathalyzer on phones and computers, for just this purpose.

The person who invents, patents, and markets such a device? Is going to get very rich.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:36 PM
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61:

Is there any real evidence that DD isnt Ogged?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:37 PM
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I'm just saying that he sounds like someone who is possibly really unaware of himself, or what it might sound like.

Isn't that one thing you do get slack for when you're drunk? Not all that much slack -- you can't drunk-text someone repeatedly over a long period of time -- but for a one-off event, this just doesn't look all that bad when it's considered as what comes to the surface when the guy is totally disinhibited.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:37 PM
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Okay, strike "fake tool" and replace with "deluding self while drunk", see AWB's 60s.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:38 PM
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I made the same assumptions as 63. The kind of investment he's expressing in her happiness is not like how he would sound if he had any reason at all to be invested in her happiness.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:39 PM
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No one is saying this, come on.
Just because it's silly and irrational doesn't mean that it isn't painfully real at the time.

Between you two, we have 'utter mortification' and 'few things worse', 'the pain will only fade', and recall, we're asking 'how embarrassed should he be?' I'm saying, ouch, but not that big of a deal.

That's not utter mortification in my book. Utter mortification would be accidentally drunkenly sending that e-mail to one's committee.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:43 PM
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68: Right. It's a self-pat on the back, like "I want you to be happy even though you don't want to bone me! I'm so giving and selfless! Look at me!"


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:44 PM
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Anyway, the whole "I Just Want You To Be Happy And Find Someone Awesome" thing is bullshit. It's self-satisfied self-aggrandizing fake crap. Having crushed hard on a friend who said he didn't want anything more than friendship and getting rejected, the first thought is not "I hope he gets to be happy in life" but "dammit, I shoulda kept my mouth shut" and "why not me? I'm rad!"

Thus, in going on and on about her happiness (and being condescending), he reveals himself to be a fake tool.

Such harshness.

Maybe he is just wallowing in self-pity and not very self-reflective.



Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:45 PM
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Nah, will, "I'm afraid I would luck to your
kihana da says. " clearly rules out all charitable interpretations.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:47 PM
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Maybe he is just wallowing in self-pity and not very self-reflective.

Yes, that. But if he's wallowing in self-pity (which any reasonable person would be after getting rejected by someone they really like) "I want you to be happy" is fake. The authentic drunk email from a self-pitying rejectee would be "I'm disappointed that you aren't into me like that. I really thought we would be awesome together, and I was sure you liked me back." or whatever.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:47 PM
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That's not utter mortification in my book. Utter mortification would be accidentally drunkenly sending that e-mail to one's committee.

Heh. I humbly suggest that the comparison has everything to do with your own particular position vis-a-vis committee members at the moment. Of the two, my own Much Older and Wiser opinion* is that the committee nonsense fades a lot faster than the other.

*That said, of course, I am not currently In Academia, not least because I was unable to overcome my anxiety and self-consciousness about the things Academics are Supposed to Do, so.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:47 PM
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Utter mortification would be accidentally drunkenly sending that e-mail to one's committee.

You mean like having your email about your upcoming purchase of illegal drugs forwarded to your graduate advisor?


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:48 PM
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"I want you to be happy" is fake.

Of *course* it is. Let he or she who has not believed such self-flattering fakeness in the depths of self-pity, cast the first stone.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:49 PM
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It's one thing to wallow in self-pity; it's another to demand that she also recognize his self-pity and pity him, too, enough to throw him the lesser crust of her non-romantic company. Drunk or not, I simply cannot imagine, like MLB, expecting some guy who just turned me down romantically to hang out with me, understanding that I will live off the grace of his presence. It's such a courtly-love passive-aggressive dude thing to do.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:49 PM
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75: Not mortifying. Merely hilarious. Show me the grad advisor who would give a shit.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:50 PM
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76: Fair point.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:50 PM
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Clarifications:
I sent this in because I thought the text messages were kinda funny. At least when I woke up this morning.
I included the email for completeness sake.

I'm really interested in finding out what I was thinking when I wrote those messages. For example, "tunning a marathon" probably refers to the marathon we are going to run in the fall.

I guess the background is that I've known her for about a year. We've been spending more and more time together for the last few months. We usually have a lot of fun when we hang out and discuss books and our families and things that are important to us. But it's been mostly at my initiative, so I'm not entirely surprised that she does not want to make out with me.

We have a friend who is moving back to Germany tomorrow, and last night was our big night out. About seven of us went to a restaurant where the drinking began. Then we worked our way over to a bar. My love interest and I gave each other piggyback rides on the way there.

At the bar, the drinking continued. At some point, I went to get more drinks and she came with me. We each did a shot, and then she started talking about how we should just be friends (and how she would set me up with one of her friends but that I was not for her).

The next solid memory I have is of waking up on my kitchen floor and seeing the first four of the text messages. Then I wrote the fifth and the email and collapsed onto my couch.


Posted by: big fool | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:52 PM
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Drunk or not, I simply cannot imagine, like MLB, expecting some guy who just turned me down romantically to hang out with me,

Well, if either of my really close friends who rejected me romantically had just stopped hanging out with me altogether, I would have told them to buck the fuck up and get over it. If an acquaintance I came on to avoided me, well that would be expected and totally fine.

But that's me; once I get explicitly rejected by someone my romantic interest fades immediately with the sting of embarrassment. The lust sometimes returns, but never the wishful-thinking "we would be so great together!"


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:54 PM
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In the olden pre-text days, I had a similar experience. In my case, I actually regained consciousness while on the phone with my crush, with a wastebasket between my legs. Of course, I had no idea what I had been saying, so at least with the texts you have a record of that.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:56 PM
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Ugh, Big Fool, I'm sorry. The piggybacking in particular *does* sound flirty. :(

If you've been friends for a year, she'll probably forgive you. Next time you see/talk to her you are allowed to say "let us please pretend that everything that happened after we left the last bar on Friday night, didn't." In ten years she'll probably give you a little bit of shit about it all.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:56 PM
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Did you at least cop a feel during the piggyback? 'cuz it looks like that might be it along those lines.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 1:59 PM
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You get credit, or anti-credit, for waking up, reading the uncomposed email, and sending it anyway.

Luckily, while this type of shit is a bit embarrassing at the time, I've never found it to be the straw that broke the camels back in terms of preventing making out. It probably wasn't going to happen before, it's slightly more probably not going to happen now, no big deal.

Laugh it off, say "wow, I guess that's better than actually throwing up on you... maybe?", and ask that if she sends it the friends of hers she tries to set you up with that she preface the email with a few over the top compliments.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 2:00 PM
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You know, I'm teaching autonomy and paternalism next term, and I think I should use the "mandatory breathalysers on cell phones" as a good example of paternalist legislation.

I wonder how many of my students would openly declare "Yes, a breathalyser should be put on my cell phone and any device I own that can send a text message."


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 2:01 PM
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Of *course* it is. Let he or she who has not believed such self-flattering fakeness in the depths of self-pity, cast the first stone.

Exactly.

Maybe m leblanc expects to be ripped a new one whenever she messes us. I prefer to be more charitable to others in the hopes that they will be charitable when I do something stupid or regretful.

Leblanc, you are a lawyer. Have you never read a transcript of you speaking in court? It only took one or two reviews of trial transcripts for my illusions of clear speaking to be destroyed. Where is your humility?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 2:14 PM
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86.2: Make sure you give them the main post as evidence after an initial discussion, and then see how many of them change their minds. (You know it'll break down along the lines of "who has done this already" vs. "who hasn't. Yet.")


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 2:16 PM
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87, see 79. Comity, comity.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 2:16 PM
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16, 17: Good god I hate that fucking comic.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 2:40 PM
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So, I've now finished the thread (I composed 80 when I had read the first 20 or so comments).

I do personally worry a lot about the whole "I just want you to be happy" stuff. It's meant honestly (I'm kinda funny that way*), but it's totally the sort of thing that doesn't need to be mentioned. Strike against me.
I think I may have been trying to get across the idea that I like being around her a lot, so I would be happy in whatever capacity makes her feel most comfortable.

I do hope it doesn't turn out that I'm actually a condescending self-pitying jerk. That would suck.

85.1: Yeah, I know! Call it a need for humiliation.

*: It's always in the background, but especially when I'm sad or when I see other people feeling sad, I become filled with love for everyone and everything. Like I just want to fade into people and smooth out all their rough edges and make everything better. That's just who I am.


Posted by: big fool / dd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 2:41 PM
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An easy way to avoid this sort of embarrassment is to spend years cultivating an affect of numb emotionlessness, becoming so habituated therein that when the girl you've been seeing hits the silk you just keep eating your french fries and ask her if she wants dessert. That way, you'll never be the one who likes somebody more than they like you. You win!

Also, I expected this to be the tail-end of poor old Ackerman's advances to that woman from that Gawker site of a few weeks ago, since he was pretty enthusiastically abnegating himself there.


Posted by: Hairy Steals Co-managers | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 2:41 PM
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thinking about types.

What's your diss. about, anyway?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 2:46 PM
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Honestly, it doesn't look too bad to me. Just email her saying Jesus fucking CHRIST I was drunk, tell her about the bit where you don't remember sending the first 4 texts, and laugh it off. As long as you don't make a habit of it, of course. Next time, send me the drunk IMs.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 3:06 PM
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94:

Yea! I want drunk ims. Or emails!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 3:32 PM
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what's all the business about being cold? Is this Emerson?


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 3:37 PM
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i think i really don't understand what i read
nevermind
though the big fool sending the ims in the morning anyway sounds like he just wanted her to know anyway
so embarrassment or what, he'll be ok and sure good luck


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 3:42 PM
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By the way, I ran into my young admirer yesterday and we had a just dandy little conversation about, uh, LED requirements and computers. I'm pretty astonished it's all seeming so normal and non-awkward.

Big fool, I feel for you. At this point you get ONE followup omigod-I-can't-believe-I-did-that email, and then you go away until she wants to hang out with you.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 4:37 PM
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ONE followup omigod-I-can't-believe-I-did-that email

If you do this, said email must be brief and apologetic without a trace of self-pity.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 4:52 PM
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...and then you go away until she wants to hang out with you.

And even then stay away, because, honestly, why fucking bother?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 5:06 PM
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why fucking bother?
to have nice memories when you die, duh


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 5:09 PM
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Ain't no nice memories to be had from girls you're "friends," faute de mieux with, read.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 5:12 PM
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I'm hoping to have a lovely time when I go out for lemonade with young J/sh.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 5:18 PM
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There's a comma missing from from 102.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 5:19 PM
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there's an excessive from in 104, imo
i could be wrong


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 5:21 PM
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God dammit.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 5:22 PM
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Sure there are. He can bitch about other girls he wants to hook up with to her and get a female opinion on the matter. She may absorb all of his overanalytical and self-sabotaging tendencies, thereby letting him interact in a normal manner and thus hit it off with her friends.

And from a more cynical perspective, b.f. eventually deciding to move on because the situation isn't something he wants to put up with is better for him than grudgingly moving on because a bunch of people on the internet tell him he should.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 5:25 PM
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Or, you know, the good times that one normally has with friends. Are you people martians?


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 5:37 PM
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And from a more cynical perspective, b.f. eventually deciding to move on because the situation isn't something he wants to put up with is better for him than grudgingly moving on because a bunch of people on the internet tell him he should.

How big a bunch?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 5:40 PM
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so i looked up the french expression, 102
when you are old enough bitter memories turn into the sweet ones
b/c of one's sufferings, emotional investment or what, good times one never remembers if it's not one's childhood memories of course
so one day i'm afraid Bf will remember his drunken ims and how foolish he was with smile, not his successful dates almost all of which he'll forget


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 5:42 PM
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Surely BigFool shouldn't decide whether to write off the friendship until he hears from the woman (which may call for a follow-up email from him along the lines of asilon's suggestion in 94). Jumping to the conclusion that she wants him to go away seems unwarranted. Just as it sounds as though JM was jumping to conclusions about J/osh, who sounds like he has his head on straight after all.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 5:58 PM
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Jumping to the conclusion that she wants him to go away seems unwarranted.

If she wanted him to stick around, he would know already. B.F., let your limbic system be your guide to what Harvey Keitel in Reservoir Dogs calls, admirably succinctly, "that man-woman thing."


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 6:03 PM
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If she wanted him to stick around, he would know already.

Not necessarily. If I received something like that in those circumstances, I might well just sit on it, wait to get some kind of clarification -- a sober one, in order to see whether the guy has completely lost it, or is (properly) embarrassed and amused at himself.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 6:22 PM
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Did BF actually receive drunken texts in response during the night? Or did he send four unanswered texts in a row? That should help determine just how embarrassed he should be right now.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 6:34 PM
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I remember when we were at dinner, it was briefly a running joke to fake pulling your heart from your chest and throwing it on the table.
LITTLE DID I KNOW!

Also, on my ill-fated final trip to the bar with the woman, we saw our German friend and one of our other friends making out against a wall. She was repulsed (I think she had good reasons, but I don't remember what they were). But I was full of love, since she was with me and we were going to have a chance to talk alone.
LITTLE DID I KNOW!


Posted by: big fool | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 6:37 PM
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I question the conceptual possibility of anything being a running joke, briefly.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 6:39 PM
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HEREBY.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 6:39 PM
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And, thanks to Flippanter for so beautifully demonstrating the difference between DD's texts/email and the kind of thing that is not merely "embarrassing" but actually worth sincere conedemnation.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 6:47 PM
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115: You were drunk; forgive yourself. I'd say your first reaction this morning was correct: those text messages are really funny, because dude, I can't tell what the hell you thought you were talking about, but you're trying so hard to say it.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 6:54 PM
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But I was full of love of Christ, and gathered the gentle creatures of the forest 'round, and bade the birds of the air pause their fluttering for love of God, and the very trees bowed to me to hear. And there I preached to them the Word, who is Christ risen, and commanded them to hold the Redeemer in their hearts.

[/crazymedievalsaint]


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 6:55 PM
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Thanks for your input, pretend internet people. Since the two of us have mostly the same group of friends, I don't have many people to talk to about this (at least not until I've processed it a bit).

I sent her a short email apologizing for causing an awkward situation and saying that I'm going to lie low for awhile.

She is the first person I've really liked in a long time, so I imagine I'll be pretty sad for awhile.
Ah, well.


Posted by: bigafool | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 7:37 PM
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With any luck she'll ignore it.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 7:42 PM
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119: Thanks. I really love the way the messages deteriorate. Until last night, I had never used a communication device under the influence. I didn't know I had it in me.


Posted by: bigafool | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 7:47 PM
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BF: Just what did you drink last night? I ask because I don't think I have ever been so fucked up that I would write something like "I'm very intersedylt in ehom yoyi" and consider it passable. This surprises me as I have on occasion put what I thought to be serious effort into my drinking, yet I never seem to have made it to one of these states.

Perhaps this is a consequence of much my drinking having been done in beer form, which tends to make me full and sleepy beyond a certain point. Also, I am a larger fellow.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:03 PM
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It's really beautiful. If five years from now she praises your 'tunning', you'll be happy.

rob, when you run your paternalism thing, ask as an option whether they'd want to install AntiDrunkDial on their phone themselves, too. I'd be curious. Drunk dials and incoherent messages are usually something my group laughs off if it's not a common occurrence (or laughed off, as we're all old and married now.)


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:06 PM
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So, what precipitated her saying she thinks you should just be friends? Because if she brought it up all out of the blue, without you saying anything or otherwise obviously macking on her? She's totally lying.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:08 PM
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124: I am a small-to-average woman, and drink hard alcohol as well as beer, and I have never been in that state either. I think the only conclusion we can draw is purely that BF was just impressively drunk.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:08 PM
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126: Read the damn thread, Tweety.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:09 PM
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Awww, bigafool, I have no advice whatsoever to offer. Just a virtual hug and the reiteration that (IMO at least) it's better to look back at times when you were *too* naked and honest rather than the reverse.

I'm glad you have compassion (already!) for yourself and I'm glad you came to tell us about it, especially if you don't have local friends who are outside that social circle.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:14 PM
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bigafool, quick, send one last email inquiring as to whether "friend sex" is out of the question!


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:15 PM
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In order: one margaritas, two shots of tequila, one vodka sour, one long island ice tea, one more tequila shot. Hard to gauge time, but we didn't get to the restaurant until 9, and I bet I was home for the drunken texting. So about four hours.


Posted by: bigafool | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:18 PM
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I did read the damn thread, B. What did you think I was responding to, exactly?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:21 PM
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Hmm. Apparently my spelling is still a little shaky.

Aww, thanks Witt.
And, err, Michael.


Posted by: bigafool | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:23 PM
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being "just friends", though, you'll have to understand if she doesn't want to do anal


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:27 PM
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Yeah, I'm a lot more sympathetic to bigafool now that we know they've been friends a year and she gives him piggyback rides. Girl likes you, just maybe not in that way as of yet. Also, tequila forgives almost anything. Also, I was in a foul mood earlier because my department has decided that even though I passed my orals with distinction, I can't advance to candidacy because I was exempted from a required course that is no longer exemptable.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:33 PM
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I don't remember what exactly we were talking about when she brought it up.

We were talking about our friends who were hooking up. Her being repusled ("Eww!") and me being full of love ("Aww!"). We sidled up to the bar and did tequila shots.
Suddenly she brought it up (though I would say that she knew I wanted to be more than friends). My response was pretty close to "I respect your decision, but I am disappointed, since I think you are really great". I don't remember anything after that.

I guess I felt she needed to know that I should have hanelobre. And if sais want rtbe. A sa rraddow.


Posted by: bigafool | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:34 PM
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Okay, believe her, then. Also go with asilon's advice.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:38 PM
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AWB, I'm happy to read the first sentence and sad to read the last.

Also, I was affected by your comments, and will need to muse on them.


Posted by: bigafool | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:39 PM
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135: so can you take the course and then you can move on?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:43 PM
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My love interest and I gave each other piggyback rides on the way there.

What? Are you Samoans or something?


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:46 PM
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Aw, AWB. The hell? Isn't there a way to grandfather that back in?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:46 PM
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because I was exempted from a required course that is no longer exemptable

Weird. If you were exempted from it, it's their problem, not yours. What Cala said.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:50 PM
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139: Yes, but it will set my career plans back by an entire year. I've been doing all the research and planning for my dissertation for three years and was intending to write most of it during my two months off this summer (I'm a very fast writer once all the planning is done) and go on the job market this December. If I'm not even ABD until then, no one will even consider looking at my application. December 2009 it is! Unless I can convince them that, no, really, this exemption was formal and taking it back now is unbelievably cruel. I have to search desperately through my documents to see if I have a letter proving that the exemption was formal.

Also a problem: the prof who insisted on the exemption (because I'd taken all methods classes as an MA student, almost no lit at all, thus making the required methods class kind of a burden) completely lost his mind a year later, went on a huge dose of anti-hallucinogenics, and ditched a bunch of classes he was scheduled to teach, and was fired. Like, tenured prof, fired. Disappeared, no one knows where.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:51 PM
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my department has decided that even though I passed my orals with distinction, I can't advance to candidacy because I was exempted from a required course that is no longer exemptable.

Sounds like the Democratic primaries! Seriously, AWB, that's such a letdown. Is this one of those bureaucratic things that someone can fix for you?


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:52 PM
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Oh wait!!!! JOY! ECSTASY!

I found a letter, signed not by the psychotic ex-prof but by the current chair of the department, saying "Based on her having taken several courses in Methods and Theory at [Nerd U], I hereby grant [A White Bear] the course equivalent of the [MySchool Required Course]. She will therefore be exempt from taking that required course."

FUCKING RAD, MAN.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:55 PM
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143: Arg. Keep pushing on this. Whose regulation is this, the administration's or the department's?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:55 PM
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143: I confess that, given the source, I was waiting to see what bizarre wrinkle involving crazy behavior on someone's part would be wrapped up in this story. And I wasn't disappointed.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:56 PM
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Yay, AWB! Saved by the packrat.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:56 PM
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145: Yay! Scan that fucker now, btw, or you'll lose it by Monday.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:57 PM
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Ooh, good. Get thy vorpal blade, swing it snicker-snack, and go to the chair. If the chair is a dick about it, cut of her head and take it to the dean.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 8:57 PM
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I just sent an email to all the profs involved, as well as the secretary, with the text of the letter in the context of an incredibly obliging and appropriately cringing email ("Naturally, I would look forward to the intellectual opportunity of taking said course...") and an explanation of how doing so would completely 100% fuck up my life, as well as a promise to fax it to them ASAP.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 9:15 PM
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"Naturally, I would look forward to the intellectual opportunity of taking said course..."

... "but I will be happy as long as you know I deserve candidacyness."


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 9:17 PM
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Disappeared, no one knows where
i knew an economics prof back in Japan who used to teach Russian as a hobby and i helped him to teach
so he also disappeared and noone knew where he was and his pupils and wife even asked me where he could have gone and everybody where thinking like it might be he committed suicide, but he reappeared as a married man in another city, he had three sons from his previous marriage, and in his new marriage he also quickly acquired two more kids, everytime i'd call him there would be a baby crying in the phone
my sister still keep in touch with him i suppose
i remember thinking how much energy he has, two marriages and public shame etc it's like too much to handle, but he was a very likable man, everybody liked him and hopefully he did not suffer much of that, ostracism or what thing
he used to tell me that he once was mistaken for a Mongolian at the Warsaw airport by one of my compatriots, was very proud of that
nice that you found the letter, AWB


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 9:18 PM
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I just re-read the thread. Next time I drink, I'm going to send you all drunken emails saying what beautiful people you all are, and how I just want you to realize that. No, seriously, I mean it. You deserve to be happy.

And that I'm cold.

With that, I return to my true, if seldom used, pseudonym.


Posted by: bigafool | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 9:18 PM
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bigafool is Amit, am i right?


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 9:21 PM
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I don't deserve happiness, bigafool. I was a giant bitch today. But now I love everyone everywhere!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 9:22 PM
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151: You're a lot nicer about it than I would have been. I'm sure it will all work out; the sooner you finish, the sooner you're off their funding/teaching.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 9:23 PM
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Hey guys, I just got here. Did I miss anything?


Posted by: Amit | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 9:30 PM
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158 was, of course, me.


Posted by: bigafool | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 9:30 PM
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you know, Bf, people check sometimes ip addresses and you'd get banned for fraud or something
just warning so to speak
good night all


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 9:33 PM
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Aww, AWB, we all have our ups and downs. I think you did raise some valid points. I am really a very sappy person, and I think it certainly can come across as condescending or self-pitying or something, so normally I just keep my mouth shut and my fingers in mittens.

But now, everything is love.


Posted by: bigafool | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 9:34 PM
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Oy, AWB. What an incredible unnecessary hassle for you.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 9:44 PM
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132: Then read more carefully, college dropout guy. He explained what precipitated her saying that.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 9:49 PM
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my department has decided that even though I passed my orals with distinction, I can't advance to candidacy because I was exempted from a required course that is no longer exemptable.

ARRRRGH HULK KILL.

145: HURRAH!!!

Good fucking luck with it all, AWB. Do you need a bunch of college profs to write letters on your behalf? Because I kind of suspect you could arrange that, if needed.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 9:52 PM
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164: Aw, thanks, B. As it is, I think the current chair (who is out of town and had nothing to do with this mess) is somewhat annoyed by my reputation among the professoriat and academic community, since, until very recently, it was backed up by almost no signs that I was competent at anything. (I have good grades and distinctions on my comps and quals, but my track record for jumping through bureaucratic hoops in the right order and at the right time shows nearly subhuman levels of incompetence.) I'm somewhat anxious about my quals results, because the chair was supposed to pre-approve my book lists before they went to my committee, six weeks before the exam, and I didn't realize I had to submit them until 24 hours before the exam, when the chair was out of town. He will feel bullied by my committee and by my apparent confidence that of course he'd approve the lists of the Great White Bear. He's a really sweet guy and I respect him deeply as an administrator, but bureaucratic stuff comes easily for him and he doesn't understand why I'm such a problem child at every turn. I think he finds me arrogant and not deserving of the love other profs offer me. So, thank you, but, for the time being, my game is to play the prostrate supplicator.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 10:06 PM
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So a friend of mine and I were having a coincidental talk about drunk dialing/texting tonight and she mentioned that she really wished, after her recent breakup, that one of her friends had taken her cell phone and switched her ex's directory entry to the friend's phone number -- so that drunk sobbing 'i miss you so much' contacts would go somewhere safe. I think this favor -- securing the phone of a broken-up friend -- should become a cultural norm.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 11:51 PM
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Theoretically, one could do that oneself, relying on the supposition that, were one drunk enough to send sobbing "i miss you so much" texts, one would also be drunk enough either not to recall that the number had been changed, or not to be able to do anything about it.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 11:54 PM
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90 - w-lfs-n, what's your beef with QC? I've got things I wish jj would do a little differently with it, but I find it delightfully entertaining on the whole.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 11:54 PM
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169

Yes, but the complicit friend route is more reliable.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 05-31-08 11:55 PM
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170

Any strip involving hannelore or her mother is guaranteed to be completely idiotic.

His characterization is weak, and he should decide either that he's going to write a dramatic comic, or that he's going to write a humorous comic; the current scheme in which characters are (ostensibly) developed or the plotline is advanced in three or four panels, with an extremely lame joke popping up in the last, is highly unsatisfactory. He has no timing.

His characters all either walk extremely quickly or talk extremely slowly. Consider.

The adults in the strip—by which I mean, the people over forty—are written as if JJ has never actually met one of their fabled number.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 12:06 AM
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171

bigafool is Amit, am i right?

Well, that's what people keep telling me, though only rarely in a mock-Italian accent.


Posted by: Amit | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 12:14 AM
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165: That strikes me as both very wise and very empathetic of you. Good luck.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 12:21 AM
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173

The example proffered in 170 suggests to me that that is a terrible comic.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 12:24 AM
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174

Sounds like Bigafool was saved from the hell of a relationship by the god of alcohol. Would that alcohol always had that effect. Often the very opposite happens.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 6:42 AM
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165: Offstage from the supplication performances you might discreetly gather up information usable for blackmail and stalking purposes.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 6:44 AM
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176

-h,+s


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 6:56 AM
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177

And wearing a Streleski Tshirt might send a message too.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 7:13 AM
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178

I just heard from the chair, who is on vacation in Europe (man I feel bad about that), and he says they'll honor the exemption. YAY!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 7:47 AM
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179

O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 8:01 AM
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180

170: It's no Order of the Stick.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 8:17 AM
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181

Just a quick update, for those who care about drunken dorks--
she replied to my email, and we'll be having lunch today.


Posted by: bigafool | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 8:39 AM
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163: pay more attention, academic failure. He gave a better explanation of the chronology in his follow up, which answered my implied question.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 8:39 AM
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183

Good for you, bigafool! Have a great lunch.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 8:40 AM
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173: 170's example is entirely unrepresentative of the strip, if for no other reason than it's two fourth-tier characters talking about a third-tier character in a strip where the author really needs to stop introducing new characters.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 10:52 AM
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in a strip where the author really needs to stop introducing new characters, because he simply can't write about anyone who isn't exactly like him, male or female.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 10:54 AM
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The example in 170 is representative of the way walking-and-talking scenes are drawn, though: the background changes entirely out of proportion with the progress of the conversation.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 10:57 AM
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181 - good. Hope it went/goes well. I always quite liked having an admirer or two about, as long as they didn't act like a tit.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 1:40 PM
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160: you know, Bf, people check sometimes ip addresses

Only front page posters have the power to check ip addresses.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 2:14 PM
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And hurrah, everyone's weekend drama is resolving itself nicely.

(I can't help being amused at the thought that bigafool's friend and AWB's chair both probably indulged a good eyeball roll at some point....)


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 2:15 PM
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190

Just to tie up the loose end:
Lunch went well. She suggested that we go to my favorite place, and once there she pretended to debate between ordering her favorite food (pancakes) and mine (french toast), probably assuming that I would suggest that we share, as we sometimes do. I should have indulged myself, but I refrained and ordered a healthy tofu dish. We both got the hot tea, as we usually do at this place. Fortunately today the tea was "Good Health" and not "Lover's Nostalgia" (which it was the first time we went there together (with other people)).

When we went to the front to place our order, the cashier asked if we were together. She quickly said no. And then he clarified and asked if we were sitting at the same table (so that our food would come out at the same time), at which point she said yes.

The actual chat went well enough, I guess. She said that she was a little surprised about my response. I said that I was surprised, too, especially since I kind of knew what her feelings were and that I thought it was the correct decision on her part. But that I could hope. She said that if she were a better person, she would date me, and I told her she shouldn't say that. She said that she was in a relationship with someone about whom she felt similarly, which lasted for a year and a half, and when it ended she felt like she had been leading him on. I didn't say anything to that, but I was thinking "that could have been ME!" I told her that I would try to not make the best the enemy of the good.

When we left, I told her that being around her has gotten me to do things that I normally would not, and I'm glad for it. She said that she is pretty good with maintaining these sorts of friendships. We joked about the implication that she has men falling in love with her right and left, but I think this has happened to her once or twice before. I told her that I hope so.

Still, she is really wonderful. And I hope it will work out. And I hope it won't be too long before I meet someone who is as great . . . laydeez.


Posted by: bigafool | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 3:12 PM
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186: But pedeconferencing strips are a relatively small portion of the QC canon. And you have to give him props for being willing to do the work of drawing multiple backgrounds to say "this conversation happens while these people are walking" rather than just going for the easy cut-n-paste that would be more realistic. As unrealistic comic strip genre conventions go, this one is inoffensive and acts as a signifier.

But this is really beside the point, because you clearly feel the strip is disenfranchising MI and FL voters.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 3:43 PM
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190: Hey, bravo to you for continuing to be honest with her. And now maybe you need to protect yourself a bit; you've clearly fallen for her, but it's not going to happen with her. The protecting yourself bit, easier said than done, I realize. Lamest line in the world, but try to stay busy, and friends can help a great deal.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 4:13 PM
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Wow, and I thought I was bad when I posted drunk. That's pretty amazing. Perhaps a little inexperienced with alcohol?

Ain't no nice memories to be had from girls you're "friends," faute de mieux with, read.

This is bullshit. What is not bullshit is that you can't have a good friendship with someone you're desparately yearning for romance with (perhaps this is what was meant by "faute de mieux", in which case I take back the first sentence). So you do have to go in emotional reverse a bit. Some people can do that, some can't, and sometimes a little absence helps.

Also, around the edges of some of bigafool's messages was a certain "I'm not worthy of you!" attitude. He might want to think about where that's coming from. Everybody is flawed. The whole thing of who is "worthy" of who is kind of an off way to think about romance. Not generally very attractive to others, either.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 5:56 PM
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i'm glad i agree with PGD
and i don't know why he needs to be protecting himself
lunch after desperate emails is a very good promising sign imo even if only to pledge friendship
if she were not interested in Bf's friendship or else she wouldn't accept the invitation imo
so i would say go for it, no need to be overly cautious, declare your feelings, enjoy life enjoy your emotions whatever will or will not happen
coz life is so fleeting, enjoy it fully because you can and it just feels good to be in love, even its sufferings are preferrable to indifference and calm, so so boring though sure safe
if you let it go away it'll just go away, your feelings that's the easiest thing
and then no promise, no memories to cherish


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 6:45 PM
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Perhaps a little inexperienced with alcohol?

Nope. Though this was the first time I've been incapacitated by alcohol*. Normally I drink a lot of water, but I don't think I had a drop until I woke up at home.

Regarding 193.last--
Honestly, I don't think I would date me (for various reasons), so I can't criticize other people's choices. And that's not self-pity. I do agree it's not very attractive.

In fact, only in the last year or so has the idea that my good qualities outweigh my bad ones become plausible. And I'm surprisingly old (mid twenties). I am getting better, though.

*: I've been sick once, but that was mixed with some food poisoning (I couldn't keep food down for days afterwards).


Posted by: bigafool | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 6:53 PM
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195: Friendly advice, from someone who doesn't think you've done anything wrong, or even all that devastatingly mortifying? Cut way back on hanging around with her for a couple of months -- down to pretty near zero. It sounds like the two of you genuinely are friends, and can stay that way, but after the events of the weekend it's going to be hard not to fall into the lovesick puppydog role. Give it six weeks or so, and that should give you enough space to resume your regularly scheduled friendship.

(And I'm not saying you have to snub her if there's something you'd naturally see her at. Just don't arrange to spend time with her for a while.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 7:00 PM
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Perhaps I'm still feeling a bit sentimental, but I've really enjoyed your contributions, read (especially 101, 110, and 194).
Thanks to you, too, parsimon. You struck a really helpful tone here.
And Bitch. Especially for 61.
And LB, and, and, and . . .
I think I'll spend some time with a couple of friends whom I've been neglecting in order to spend time with her (I declined a visit to a good friend's pirate island in order to go backpacking in the Black Hills with her and some other guys), and I won't put together an outing to see the new Indiana Jones (on several occasions, for no particular reason, we (plus another friend) have sung the theme song).


Posted by: bigafool | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 7:22 PM
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only in the last year or so has the idea that my good qualities outweigh my bad ones become plausible.

Wake up. This is self-pity. Unless you're a serial killer or a hopeless drug addict or the like.

And I'm surprisingly old (mid twenties).

That's not old. It's older than you were five years ago, but five years from now you'll understand how young it was.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 8:43 PM
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Perhaps we have different definitions of self-pity.
Or perhaps I really am self-pitying. Probably a little of both.

Discussing emotions is technically difficult, though, so I think this is one mystery that we won't be able to solve here.

And, while I agree that I'm not very old, these are things that I should have dealt with five years ago (isn't that always the case?). But, better late than never.


Posted by: bigafool | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 9:19 PM
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I declined a visit to a good friend's pirate island in order to go backpacking in the Black Hills with her and some other guys

Hold the fucking phone. Girls, drinking, text messaging, blah, blah, blah. You have a friend with a PIRATE ISLAND? What the fuck? Load up your superweapons and your collection of man-animal hybrids and get the fuck out there, fool! You can slake your thirst for the tender draught of woman with some of the go-go girls over at the Volcano.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 9:31 PM
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That's not old. It's older than you were five years ago, but five years from now you'll understand how young it was.

And five years after that, you'll be dead!

(Hey, pirate island begets sudden cataclysm. Still, what the fuck?!?)


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 9:32 PM
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All bigafool means is that the island isn't properly registered, sifu.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 9:35 PM
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And that it rides low upon the waters, cursed by powers from beyond the grave, and only appears in the Bermuda triangle on alternate Tuesdays.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 9:37 PM
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202: dude, I would claim any beknighted hunk of rock anywhere in the open ocean in the name of Copyleft if it gave me a chance to shoot even one BSA schock-trooper out of the sky. You don't turn that down!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 9:37 PM
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By "beknighted", I obviously mean an island that has actually been granted knighthood. Any other speculation is scurrilous.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 9:38 PM
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And by "schock-trooper", you meant what?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 9:42 PM
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That's not old.

Mathematically straightforward, but depressing fact: The number of people in the world older than you is a monotonically decreasing function.


Posted by: JP Stormcrone | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 9:43 PM
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The number of people in the world older than you is a monotonically decreasing function.

Not if you account for relativistic effects.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 9:45 PM
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206: geez. I just don't know.

Werds aur haerd.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 9:46 PM
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200 et alia: His family owns a small island in the middle of a lake. The truth is always so disappointing . . .


Posted by: bigafool | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 9:52 PM
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210: is it a pirate lake?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 9:55 PM
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I think I'll make it into one.


Posted by: bigafool | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 10:00 PM
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That's what I like to hear!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 1-08 10:06 PM
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