Re: The Bad

1

Caddyshack 2.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 2:45 PM
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2

Weekend at Bernie's. Judge Dredd.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 2:47 PM
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The works of Alain Resnais.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 2:48 PM
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I can't find the exact quote anywhere, but it was something like "[Jennifer] Lynch wanted to direct Boxing Helena in the worst way, and that's exactly what she did."


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 2:49 PM
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Someone in the CT thread nominates The Magnificent Ambersons, which I find baffling. That's the worst movie you can come up with?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 2:50 PM
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Exactly the kind of thing I mean!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 2:51 PM
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I also can't find the direct quote, but I'm pretty sure someone once wrote of The Mirror Has Two Faces: "and the theatre has many exits..."


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 2:53 PM
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the french film with a cockroach in the coffee


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 2:54 PM
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9

Legend of the Overfiend.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 2:54 PM
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Good lord, was there a gorgeous Jennifer Lynch in my HS.

Fairly certain directing was not in her future.

At this point, I see so few movies that they're all at least decent. I'm sure I saw some real crap 10-15 years ago.

How about Moonraker? Wouldn't make the 101 worst, tho'.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 2:55 PM
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I felt ill watching Batman and Robin. A friend of a friend of mine vomited after watching it.

I once saw some movie that (at least in my recollection) consisted of people reading letters from Mozart's family over shots of carriages, but I probably would have liked it more if my German had been better.


Posted by: beamish | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 2:56 PM
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How about Moonraker? Wouldn't make the 101 worst, tho'.

I dunno that one was entertainingly stupid. I would vote instead for Licence To Kill.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 2:58 PM
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Do not waste your time watching Slacker or Waking Life. The trailer is sufficient to get the point.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 2:59 PM
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At this point, I see so few movies that they're all at least decent.

This helps a lot. A significant percentage of all movies made aren't worth the time to watch, let alone worth paying for. 101 is a pretty short list, i'd say.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 2:59 PM
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I think you actually have to exclude movies that are really, truly transcendently awful, because those can be deeply entertaining to watch. I think the key is movies that are just utterly pointless.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 2:59 PM
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13: duuude no way. I loved Slacker sooo much when it first came out! I liked Waking Life, too.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:00 PM
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Spiderman 3. I saw it on DVD months after the release, after hearing how bad it was. I thought I was prepared for it to be bad. I had my expectations set very low (to begin with, my version of high praise for comic book movies is "it failed to suck.")

Even with all that preparation, my jaw literally dropped at the stupid. Three stiff drinks wouldn't have saved that movie. A few bong hits, maybe.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:00 PM
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15: absolutely. the so-bad-it's-good genre is well established, but works bets on a small budget.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:00 PM
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19

I like Chasing Amy.

Worst movie I've paid money to see: Lost in Space.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:01 PM
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20

16: Really? I was so bored.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:01 PM
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duuude no way. I loved Slacker sooo much when it first came out!

Listen to yourself, Tweety.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:01 PM
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I initially formed a hypothesis that Waking Life is only good if you do drugs (not necessarily while watching the film), but then I looked back at this thread and I guess not.

But I liked it a lot.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:02 PM
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21: no way I'd be using tone in some kind of intentional way, Ben.

Lost In Space does indeed belong on the list.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:03 PM
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It could still be true that is good only if you do drugs, though. Just not that it's good iff you do drugs.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:04 PM
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I'm not that good at this game, though. I'm mystified by people who don't realize that the Lord of The Rings trilogy is the most boring 9 hour fight montage ever.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:04 PM
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23.1: exactly.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:05 PM
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I would say Gummo, except I was kinda fascinated by that movie. Oh, I know: The Sound of Music. Jesus, I hate that movie.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:05 PM
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28

There are so many movies that one is better off not seeing. For some reason, the film The Good Girl is popping to my mind. It isn't that it is horrible; it is just a waste of time.


Posted by: lemmy caution | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:05 PM
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I couldn't finish Waking Life. Too much faux profundity. Like I would imagine myself to sound while high. Except, not being high, it's not very enjoyable.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:07 PM
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30

I don't have high hopes for The House Bunny.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:07 PM
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31

19: Chasing Amy is my favorite film. But then, I like Questionable Content and Penny Arcade, so clearly there's something deeply wrong with me.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:07 PM
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Liking Penny Arcade is a-ok, H-L.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:08 PM
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33

Is 3 serious? I remember only comments where w-lfs-n hates on Resnais. What's the deal? Did he split an infinitive or mix up leur/ils sont?


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:09 PM
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The question is how low the threshold is - it's hard for any product of human endeavor not to include at least one funny bit, whether intentional or un-. And, under the right circumstances, one is all it takes for the entertainment to begin.

Probably a more functional list is 101 Movies People Will Tell You To See, But You Shouldn't.

I nominate Road to Singapore. Just awful - and I'm perfectly tolerant of crooning, corny jokes, and retrograde sexual/racial portrayals.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:09 PM
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Do not waste your time watching Slacker

I think this would be a prime example of what Ogged was counseling against in his post considering how influential this movie was. Ask Kevin Smith and Quentin Tarantino.


Posted by: Grumps | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:10 PM
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36

I shouldn't really say "the works of"; he's prolific and I've only seen Hiroshima mon amour and Last Year at Marienbad—and I've only seen all of the former. But yes, it's serious.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:10 PM
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28: right, I think that's key. The feeling upon leaving should be "well that's two hours I'm never getting back."

Sleepless in Seattle.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:10 PM
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38

Transformers. Despite AWB's vigorous defense. A friend and I felt absolutely cheated after that joyless piece of bloat.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:11 PM
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39

Under no circumstances should persons see Elephant


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:11 PM
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40

ANYTHING STARRING TOM HANKS BECAUSE HE IS THE WORST ACTOR EVER.


Posted by: OPINIONATED OGGED | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:11 PM
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101 Movies People Will Tell You To See, But You Shouldn't

No no, this is exactly what the list at CT is turning into, and that's exactly the same as a thread of movie recommendations and argument. A list of truly awful crap that you shouldn't feel bad about not seeing is something else.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:12 PM
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Back in college, I had a friend who was projectionist at a low-rent movie theater, and he and I and a few other friends would get high and watch the movies after hours, the night before they opened. (He had to watch them to make sure the print was good.)

Usually they were awful. Among the gems we watched: My Girl, Def by Temptation, Backdraft, and Gremlins II.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:12 PM
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28: Ha! That's one I saw (on video, I guess). I don't really disagree with your assessment, but I liked it well enough. I appreciated that it did the good thing of not making all the good characters likable, and vice-versa.

Personally, I thought Big Lebowski sucked, but I realize I'm alone in this.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:13 PM
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The feeling upon leaving should be "well that's two hours I'm never getting back."

The Village


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:13 PM
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45

I don't really enjoy many movies at all, so I might be your man in this game, Oggedster. Gosford Park is the first one that comes to mind.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:13 PM
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46

Mel Gibson's What Women Want.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:15 PM
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47

I was about to say "40 gets it exactly right" until I saw the sig. Fuckers.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:15 PM
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48

Gosford Park is a good one.

Smilla's Sense of Snow. I understand the book was good.


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:16 PM
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40: Yes.

41: I thought of that, but what I meant was less Overrated Movies than Movies That People Liked Due To Their Personal Circumstances, But Actually Suck. Slacker is a pretty good example, probably. Easy Rider.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:16 PM
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The feeling upon leaving should be "well that's two hours I'm never getting back."

Cremaster 1.

(I couldn't remember the name of the series, but googling "testicle descent movie bjork" did the trick—had to add "bjork" because "testicle descent movie" wasn't cutting it.)


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:16 PM
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51

The Sound of Music. Jesus, I hate that movie.

Poor, poor, apo. What a sad and empty life you must lead.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:16 PM
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52

Mel Gibson's What Women Want.

You're trolling this thread, heebie. Great premise! Some funny moments! Helen Hunt is hot!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:16 PM
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53

Reality Bites was especially loathsome.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:17 PM
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54

Cremaster 1 isn't actually two hours long, but it feels that way.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:17 PM
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55

One of the worst movies I've ever seen: Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever (aka Lucy Liu And Antonio Banderas In Leather, yet still only capable of grossing $14 million on a budget of $70 million)

It was truly excruciatingly awful, and even all-out MST3K action with a great friend in an empty theater could hardly redeem the flick.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:18 PM
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56

What in the world were you doing watching that movie, PMP?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:18 PM
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55: That may be the worst title in the history of movies. For that reason alone, I refused to watch it.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:18 PM
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58

ANYTHING STARRING TOM HANKS ADAM SANDLER


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:19 PM
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59

Chasing Amy is good only if you really, really care about watching Kevin Smith work through issues with women's sexuality that he should have gotten over by 21. Take those away and there's no movie left. Which sounds like an excellent idea, in fact.


Posted by: freight train | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:19 PM
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60

Way to claim the counterintuitive high ground by hating on Cremaster, benwo. In fact number 5 is the only one that sucks.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:19 PM
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Now that I'm sitting down to analyze it, I think the worst part of that title is that since it is meaningless, the mind starts to rearrange the components of the title until Ball and Sever end up way too close to one another.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:20 PM
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62

52: Really? I thought that one would get widespread agreement.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:20 PM
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63

You're trolling this thread, heebie. Great premise! Some funny moments! Helen Hunt is hot!

recently (ok, not so recently) movies have to work pretty hard to get over the deficit of having Mel Gibson star in them.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:21 PM
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64

Peter Jackson's King Kong might belong on this list.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:22 PM
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65

The Horse Whisper is my first nomination. Damn am I angry with myself for watching that whole thing.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:22 PM
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59: Well, he was only 26 when he made Chasing Amy.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:22 PM
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67

I've only seen one and two.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:22 PM
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Poor, poor, apo.

I've been married to two different women who loved, LOVED, that movie as a child and so would play it again and again for children of their own, of which I'm now on number three. I can't quite put my finger on what it is that annoys me so profoundly about that movie, but it's the same sensation I get if I have to listen to an entire TMBG album.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:22 PM
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69

67 to 60.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:23 PM
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70

Third movie in the Matrix trilogy.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:23 PM
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Wish I could find it, but Matt McIrvin had a great post on his lj a while ago about how no male geek who has not yet gotten laid should ever watch Ferris Bueller's Day Off.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:23 PM
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72

Blues Brothers 2000.

If you liked The Blues Brothers even a tiny little bit, please do not see this movie.


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:23 PM
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73

same sensation I get if I have to listen to an entire TMBG album

I've never seen Sound of Music but if this is true, then Apo gets it exactly right.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:23 PM
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74

Pay it Forward. But I hate any move that can be accurately described as "heartwarming"


Posted by: Cecily | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:24 PM
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it's the same sensation I get if I have to listen to an entire TMBG album

If there are film analogs to either The National or The Hold Steady, I hate them passionately.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:24 PM
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Third movie in the Matrix trilogy.

I second that.

I watched the second movie with very low expectations and thought it was passably entertaining.

I watched the third movie and seriously considered the possibility that it was the worst movie I have ever seen.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:24 PM
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77

The P-Jax King Kong is sort of interesting. Lonesome Jim is a waste of film.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:25 PM
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78

Third movie in the Matrix trilogy.

Yeah, this is a good one, because the third one isn't just awful, but so bad that it makes the previous two worse.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:25 PM
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I think one of the comments at Crooked Timber removes sequels from consideration. The fruit, it hangs too low.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:25 PM
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Peter Jackson's King Kong might belong on this list.

Hell yes it does. And apo preaches the good word about The Sound of Music.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:25 PM
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81

So there are movies that are depressing because of something that happened off-screen; there are a few easy categories:

the collapse of a human being-- say any of Harold Lloyd's films from the 30s

the collapse of collective reason in funding the things-- Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS for a B-movie, Battlefield Earth for an expensive one

the collapse of an audience's sense-- looking at highest-grossing films turns up some films I personally hate (Forrest Gump), but I'm happy to find few that are especially malignant-- The Passion of The Christ, maybe, but that seems like a special case to me-- there's a huge audience for even bad biblical movies.

As far as worst on screen, I usually find sadism pretty depressing, and don't like our culture's stupid fixation with it, so Mel Gibson again, though his movies are actually more thought-provoking than empty CGI exercises or pointless star vehicles. Maybe the later installment of some horror series? I don't know-- people's thoughts about why some category of movies is to be avoided (deeper than Jim Carrey is irritating) would be better than the list, obvs.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:25 PM
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82

Apo is right. Also Mary Poppins and Gone with the Wind.

You know what was a good movie? Shakes the Clown.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:25 PM
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83

You know what was a good movie? Shakes the Clown.

Damn straight.


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:26 PM
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84

Boy, that's hard. Boxing Helena as an example doesn't seem to help, either, because it's a bit like coming out against snuff films. Does the movie have to do you some sort of moral harm? Home Alone may be the only movie I've ever walked out on, but I can't see a harm beyond the loss of time and money. OTOH, I might be able come up with at least a couple of movies that were really enjoyable but left me with exactly the wrong life lesson. Should those be on the list?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:27 PM
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What in the world were you doing watching that movie, PMP?

Very good question, still not sure. I went to the movies with a friend who shares an appreciation for high camp, nothing was good that weekend, so we decided to go for the worst possible choice and a guaranteed empty room for optimal yelling and mockery.

It was not the wisest of decisions. I'm pretty sure those $8 could have bought each of us some tainted X instead.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:27 PM
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re: 81

The Passion of the Christ would definitely make it on my 'wish I hadn't seen' list.

The movies that made me actively angry that I'd wasted time watching them: The Phantom Menace and Matrix: Regurgitated.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:27 PM
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Chasing Amy is an example of something that is of real value to people of a certain generation, but someone from a different milieu would just say the story is maudlin and goes nowhere, and the characters are totally implausible. But it's very honest, in a way that only people who already identify in some of the characters can appreciate.


Posted by: Ardent reader | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:28 PM
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88

"The Big Lebowski" is 2/3 of the movies I've seen in the last year. I saw it twice.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:28 PM
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89

Okay, first of all, Slacker is brilliant, and that's all there is to it. Secondly, from the CT thread, anyone who misses Battlefield Earth will have to search long and hard for another film that is its equal in ridiculousness. And why would you want to waste your time doing that?

My nominations for Kieran's List are:
At First Sight (Irwin Winkler, 1999), an absolutely awful Val Kilmer vehicle whose implausibility is exceeded only by its crass commercialism. Guy is blind. Guy meets girl. Guy gets risky surgery to restore his sight. Guy's first object that he sees in his whole life is a can of Coke. Sigh.

No Reservations, (Scott Hicks, 2007), which I just watched on a long-distance bus trip (it was piped in), and which may be summed up, Hollywood-pitch style as "Ratatoille, but without the rats, or the humor." See, at first you think it's going to be a standard, misogynist "working woman is too masculine to see that she really wants to fall in love with the lovable scoundrel at work". But then they pull a switcheroo, so that it becomes "working woman is so masculine that she has to be taught how to nurture a small child by the lovable scoundrel at work." Even a Bob Balaban cameo cannot save it.

The Whole Wide World (Dan Ireland, 1996), a movie so awful that it is actually not worth watching for Vincent D'Onofrio's performance. Since the cast is rounded out by Renee Zellweger, this should come as no surprise.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:28 PM
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90

Also Mary Poppins and Gone with the Wind.

For badness of movie: goodness of book ratio, 101 Dalmations

DISNEY RUINS EVERYTHING!


Posted by: Cecily | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:29 PM
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91

Jésus de Montréal.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:29 PM
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92

More:
1. America's Sweethearts
2. Big Daddy
3. For Richer or Poorer
4. Stargate


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:29 PM
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Crap, 89 was me, why did it eat my name? Stupid computers.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:30 PM
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Jésus de Montréal is actually kind of similar, plotwise, to Kazantzakis' Christ Recrucified, but the latter is much better.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:30 PM
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95

Also Mary Poppins

Emerson is irredeemable.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:30 PM
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96

Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever is the worst-rated movie at RT.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:31 PM
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97

the one with Robin Williams and his dead wife and a lot of paint was also terrible


Posted by: Cecily | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:31 PM
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America's Sweethearts was indeed awful. I saw that and Heartbreakers on one long bus ride, and I came off the bus thinking "You know, not all formulaic Hollywood movies are interchangeable. Heartbreakers is not something I would have ever chosen to watch, but it was about 500 times more enjoyable, humorous and interesting than America's Sweethearts."


Posted by: Ardent reader | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:31 PM
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99

On the other hand, I'd cheerfully vote to compel everybody to watch The New World several times a year.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:31 PM
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100

American Beauty was one terrible film.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:31 PM
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101

No Reservations,

It's a remake of "Mostly Martha," which I really enjoyed.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:31 PM
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102

The hoi polloi, ogged? It may be standard English, but that's just another word for vulgar.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:32 PM
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Re: 36, my sentiments precisely.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:32 PM
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If there are film analogs to either The National or The Hold Steady

The former would just be some movie about how love always fails between moody, jaded New Yorkers in their late-20s to early-30s. Those should be a dime a dozen.

The latter is harder. Not too many movies made about bike messengers and midwestern rural transplants to the big city all going out and partying their hearts out to a mediocre band with few consequences but a mild hangover.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:32 PM
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"Navajo Joe", a spaghetti Western. Plot: Episode 1. Fifty men rape and kill Navajo Joe's wife. Episode 2: Navajo Joe kills one of them. Episode 3: Navajo Joe kills another one...... Episode 51: Navajo Joe kills the 50th guy.

That's not actually true. There was probably a subplot, and some episodes involved killing several guys, so that there weren't 51 episodes.

There were some Navajoes in the audience, but I don't remember the atmosphere being thick with racial tension.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:33 PM
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106

Well hello, arthegall.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:33 PM
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97: Bicentennial Man?

No, wait...there was another Robin Williams movie that that describes even better.

Anyway, Bicentennial Man was just unbelievably bad. Worse than Jack. Maybe as bad as Powder.


Posted by: Ardent reader | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:33 PM
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108

The Last Kiss is my pick.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:33 PM
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109

Don't forget Patch Adams.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:34 PM
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110

Also, you've all forgotten to mention U-Turn.

Hi Ogged.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:34 PM
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111

Robin Williams' One Hour Photo is also horrible, although I don't think I've ever watched the whole thing through...


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:34 PM
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The former would just be some movie about how love always fails between moody, jaded New Yorkers in their late-20s to early-30s.

Mutual Appreciation? But that stars members of Bishop Allen and ends on an ambiguously hopeful note. Just like ... L'avventura!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:34 PM
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The latter is harder. Not too many movies made about bike messengers and midwestern rural transplants to the big city all going out and partying their hearts out to a mediocre band with few consequences but a mild hangover.

"Human Traffic" from the UK was pretty close to that. Not exactly a memorable movie.


Posted by: Ardent reader | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:35 PM
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So what about "Gone with the Wing", Kraab? A bridge too far even for you, eh?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:35 PM
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Phenomenon somehow belongs with Powder in my mind.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:35 PM
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59: 'cause lord knows there aren't any thirty year old men with issues about women's sexuality.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:35 PM
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The movie I most with I hadn't seen: Far and Away, starring Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman. We were getting a VHS rental*, and my father wanted to watch something else (can't remember what, but it hardly could have been worse, could it?) and I insisted we should get Far and Away because it was "critically acclaimed" (it said so right there on the box!). So not only did I waste two hours watching that tripe, I had to live with my father losing all respect for my taste in movies.

*the only factor mitigating my foolishness in this story is that we were renting the tape from the local general store, which had a selection of approximately 30 VHS tapes, 24 of which involved John Wayne, Chuck Norris, or Hulk Hogan.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:35 PM
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Most of the suggestions on this thread clearly do not belong on the list. I'll just get it over with now and be the first to nominate Citizen Kane.


Posted by: Grumps | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:36 PM
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OK, OK, "Wind".


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:36 PM
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107: What Dreams May Come


Posted by: Cecily | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:36 PM
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American Beauty was one terrible film.

Agreed, taken as a movie, but I found it fascinating as a cultural artifact, and worth watching for that reason.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:37 PM
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I always hated Godard's movies, except for "Weekend". They always seemed to require that you care about the attitudes young Parisians were striking, and think that their canned ideas were profound and penetrating.

And probing and seminal. And girthy.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:38 PM
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Under no circumstances should persons see Elephant

Wrong. I believe what you meant to say was "Last Days".


Posted by: Ardent reader | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:38 PM
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the wife wasn't dead though, Robin Williams was dead. Whatever. Still terrible.


Posted by: Cecily | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:39 PM
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Also, you've all forgotten to mention U-Turn.

I'm looking at the imdb page on that, and I don't remember one single thing about that movie, except that I watched it.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:39 PM
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"Human Traffic"

The friend with whom I watched the movie would agree with this assessment, but I thought it was decent.

Not great, by any means, but I didn't mind it.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:39 PM
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(124 to 120)


Posted by: Cecily | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:39 PM
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92: Oh damn, yeah. Adam Sandler should get a lifetime achievement award in this category.

Waterboy
Billy Madison
Big Daddy
Anger Management
Happy Gilmore
fucking Click!

Growing up as a pre-teen and early teenage boy during his initial stint of popularity was a form of cosmic punishment for my generation.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:40 PM
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97 -- What Dreams May Come. The one that says that death is like taking acid at Glacier National Park.

I liked it, but then my threshold isn't all that high.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:40 PM
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The Passion of the Christ

Oh god yes. Oh sweet jesus, it's hard to create a movie that bores you to tears via nauseating slow butchery of That Guy. Want to see the inside of Jesus's muscle tissue, and then watch it get caked with dust as it oozes? Welcome home.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:40 PM
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So what about "Gone with the Wing", Kraab? A bridge too far even for you, eh?

My appreciation for The Sound of Music and Mary Poppins has no bearing on what I think about Gone with the Wind. They're in entirely different categories. That said, I'm not a fan of GWTW, but I wouldn't call it unwatchable.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:41 PM
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Worst movie I've ever seen is almost certainly Robot Jox. Uggh that was bad.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:41 PM
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101 It's a remake of "Mostly Martha," which I really enjoyed.

Did the original have similarly awful gender politics? 'Cause No Reservations was just toxic. I was disgusted. It was morally, intellectually and ethically repugnant. Have I sufficiently conveyed my disdain for this movie?


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:41 PM
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Has anyone else ever seen a movie, really liked it, and realized upon second viewing that it sucked? Sometimes it can be because your tastes have matured in the intervening years, but sometimes you just can't explain why you didn't recognize its suckitude the first time around.

It's particularly painful if you have talked up the movie to a friend and you watch it together. I did this with Ghost.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:42 PM
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Speilberg's AI.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:42 PM
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Agreed, taken as a movie, but I found it fascinating as a cultural artifact, and worth watching for that reason

Fixed.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:43 PM
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134: Wow. I give you props for admitting it, though.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:43 PM
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The IMDB user comments on Robot Jox are amusing -- despite (or because of) the mindbogling fact that some people liked it.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:44 PM
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134: I did this with Rocky V.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:44 PM
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Has anyone else ever seen a movie, really liked it, and realized upon second viewing that it sucked?

I find this happens a lot if I'm sober the second time.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:45 PM
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41 to 118. Grump's suggestion would make the thread more formulaic.

Really, I think "America's Sweethearts" is the most total waste of time I have ever watched in film form. At least "Jack" and "Powder" and "Bicentennial Man" are filled with unbelievably stupid moments that you can poke fun at.

In "America's Sweethearts" you see some boring and moderately unlikeable people with whom nobody on earth would want to either identify or envy, and they are firmly established as people who we don't root for to either fail or succeed. Then they experience uninteresting problems that most people would not even recognize as problems unless they were watching the movie very closely, which is impossible because every line in the script is homogenized and formulaic, and nothing happens that is either surprising or frustrating or even ambiguous. And then they go back to their lives.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:45 PM
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I watched the middle of "Ghost" and sort of enjoyed the concept even though I thought it was pretty crappy. It was sort of like it had interesting components.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:46 PM
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138: "The method of warfare is cleaner than nuclear war, since now everyone is wearing those breath masks. Definetly a movie that makes you think."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:46 PM
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Robot Jox was awesome!

AI wasn't bad until the last 25 or so minutes!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:47 PM
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At First Sight (Irwin Winkler, 1999), an absolutely awful Val Kilmer vehicle whose implausibility is exceeded only by its crass commercialism. Guy is blind. Guy meets girl. Guy gets risky surgery to restore his sight. Guy's first object that he sees in his whole life is a can of Coke. Sigh.

Oooh, it's really bad. It's based on an Oliver Sacks case study, but instead of becoming morbidly obese, depressed, sick, and losing his sight, Kilmer's character just becomes blind again and lives happily ever after.


Posted by: beamish | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:48 PM
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134: The Phantom Menace. Then, for some inexplicable reason, I saw it a third time, which confirmed that my opinion of it on second viewing was the correct one.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:48 PM
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Jersey Girl has to be worse than Chasing Amy, dunnit? Nothing gets better when you add George Carlin.


Posted by: ed bowlinger | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:48 PM
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Oh my God, I'd nearly repressed the fact that someone made me go see A Lot Like Love with Ashton Kutcher. By far the worst movie I've ever seen.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:49 PM
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the one with Robin Williams and his dead wife and a lot of paint was also terrible

Yes! yesyesyesyes!

Curse you for making me remember that piece of shit.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:49 PM
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AI might not have been a success, but it wasn't awful. And Ghost is just a very sappy Hollywood movie; lots of people still like it.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:49 PM
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Meet Fucking Joe Black, ugh, ugh, I'm still irritated and I'm further irritated by how many times I've seen that movie. It sneaks up on you!


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:49 PM
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For badness of movie: goodness of book ratio, 101 Dalmations

The Golden Compass makes 101 Dalmatians look like a work of genius. I hated that film so much. I was prepared for it not to be good, but I wasn't prepared for it to be so fucking awful. It seems they fucked about with it quite a lot at the last minute (the merchandise is based on a differently-edited version). All 6 of us went to see it. 5 of us looked at each other in stunned silence at the end. The 5 year old said she liked it and was immediately told by the 11 year old that she has no taste.

Books made into films are generally bad though. The World According to Garp? More Robin Williams, should have been a clue.Catch 22? Had to turn that off. Bridget Jones's Diary? I was ashamed of myself for watching it.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:50 PM
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Robot Jox was awesome!

In the category of low-budget movies with terrible acting, I enjoyed Pumpkinhead when I saw it at a con.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:52 PM
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The Golden Compass was pretty bad, but there were some affecting scenes with the bear, and some effectively scary ones with the electric box thingy. It's no Boxing Helena.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:52 PM
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The cinematography in Free Willy 2 was startlingly good.

Somebody said Gosford Park above? What the hell?

118 gets it right.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:52 PM
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George Carlin is a problem for me. His smug semi-hip semi-left horny neighborhood guy schtick is really crass and stupid, sort of like Jimmy Buffett, and yet I know that if there were more George Carlin types in the US (something actually possible, since he's crass and stupid), the whole world would be a better place.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:54 PM
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The Passion of The Christ

What I can't understand about this one is why anyone would go to see it if they weren't predisposed to like it, or at least support it, regardless of content. It's core audience went for political reasons.

Here's a guy whose acting is at it's limited best in fairly mindless action movies (and has been known to drag down films that weren't in that genre) and who has managed to gather up the money to fund a vanity project explicitly for the purpose of griding a personal religious axe. Throw in that there's by any number of accounts he's a bit of an asshat to boot (or don't, your choice).

Seriously, who looked at that and thought: hmm, it might not suck. Wtf?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:55 PM
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Meet Fucking Joe Black, ugh, ugh, I'm still irritated and I'm further irritated by how many times I've seen that movie.

I know what you mean. That's one of those movies that I didn't enjoy that I still find myself drawn to. I think it's because the movie is beautiful looking, if poorly plotted.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:56 PM
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Ooh, I just remembered another one. I personally couldn't stand 8 1/2 Women.

There are enough people who like Peter Greenaway that I'm sure it would work for someone, but that was definitely a failure of the "walk into the local independent cinema and watch whatever's playing" plan.

I should still try that plan more often, I don't watch enough movies.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:56 PM
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The World According to Garp? More Robin Williams, should have been a clue.

To be fair, that was only the second movie he ever made. I liked that one and Good Morning Vietnam.

It wasn't until Dead Poets Society that he went from "annoying hyperactive stimulant-crazed comedian" to "annoying hyperactive stimulant-crazed comedian who is also a pompously saccharine sentimentalist".


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:56 PM
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"Good Will Hunting" annoyed me more than almost any movie ever, in part because it was well intended at some level. I still think Minnie Driver was cute, though.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:57 PM
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AI was great. It was Spielberg making a Kubrick film. Also, the last 25 minutes tied up the theological allegory, making the start of the movie interesting, even if they didn't do much as film. A better film than either S or K would have made without the other's contribution.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:57 PM
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I had no idea people were so down on Mel Gibson. He's usually pretty charming on screen.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:57 PM
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I can't believe there are so many people objectively opposed to acid in Glacier Park. What a world, what a world.

La Voyage du Ballon Rouge can be on the list. I walked out of The Devils, but someone might talk me into trying it again.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:58 PM
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Trust me, Ogged: Mel Gibson's not what women want.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:59 PM
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lots of people still like it

Not really a criterion in my book.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:59 PM
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The cinematography in Free Willy 2 was startlingly good.

Well, what do you know.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:59 PM
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I Know Who Killed Me ...with Lindsay Lohan showed up on cable last week. What little I saw of it was amazing.

I have much lower standards than most people and watched At First Sight twice because I like Mira Sorvino. Same with Whole Wide World because of D'Onofrio. Spidey 3 or Transformers (I am tired of tags) won't be watched again.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 3:59 PM
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163: He can't act. Which is fine, he's got one entertaining character and this works perfectly well for others (see Jack Nicholson). Predictable maybe, but entertaining in the right setting.

Gibson's problem is that he doesn't know this, but he made enough people money in action flicks that they funded him in stuff way, way out of his depth. And it sucked.


While we're at it, add Gibson's travesty of Shakespear to the list.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:01 PM
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You know what movie was surprisingly good? Airborne.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:01 PM
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Meet Joe Black is definitely one of the worst films ever.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:02 PM
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I had no idea people were so down on Mel Gibson.

Yeah, people really shouldn't let a little antisemitism get in the way of enjoying Gibson the director making sure that there are multiple extreme closeups of Gibson the actor's dreamy blue eyes.


Posted by: Grumps | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:02 PM
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PS:Just ran into a comment glitch. Cut my comment to the clipboard, refreshed a couple of times until I saw it posted. Impatient people at various sites who have multiple comment problems really piss me off.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:02 PM
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169 lost an "e" somewhere. Anyone seen it?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:02 PM
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I know this is about movies, not TV, but in terms of great potential to crap delivered it's hard to beat Lost.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:03 PM
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167: yep.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:03 PM
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Not really a criterion in my book.

I think that's a mistake in a list like this; if it speaks to a lot of people, then there's something good about it, even if I, or you, personally, don't like it.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:03 PM
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I had no idea people were so down on Mel Gibson. He's usually pretty smug, self-satisfied, and convinced he's completely charming on screen.

Oh, and then there's the anti-semitism and homophobia.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:05 PM
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I'm mystified by people who don't realize that the Lord of The Rings trilogy is the most boring 9 hour fight montage ever.

broken up by touching moments of hobbit homoeroticism. The New Zealand backdrops were good, though.

Lost In Space -- yes, utterly horrible. It stood out in my mind for its complete lack of redeeming qualities, even of the so-bad-it's-good type. You see a movie like that or The Phantom Menace and you ask yourself how its possible to spend $100 million and invest the labor of thousands of people and come up with no entertainment value whatsoever.

American Beauty also sucked, and belongs to the special category of classy Oscar-type movies that everyone is just SO impressed by but you can hardly believe how awful they are. Along with The English Patient and Atonement

It's interesting to go through the CT thread and find movies where you disagree. I sort of liked Marie Antoinette and also Eyes Wide Shut . I think I was stoned when I saw them, so Apo's comment 140 might apply. But I think if you like a movie when you're stoned, it must have some value. In an alternate reality where everyone was stoned all the time, it would be a good work of art.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:05 PM
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Apocalypto was nearly unwatcheable for the sadism, but was a pretty interesting exploration of spiritual awakening induced from outside would be like-- obvious heavy-handed Christian intent, but the movie transcended that. Not great film, but not a cartoon like the Christ movie, and much better than empty commercial film or pointless sequel/adaptation.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:07 PM
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The Golden Compass was pretty bad, but there were some affecting scenes with the bear, and some effectively scary ones with the electric box thingy.

Yeah, whatever ogged. You and my 5 year old should get along fine. Do you think The Magic Roundabout is the funniest film ever made as well?

Affecting scenes with the bear? Perhaps, if Lyra could have been able to act. OK, so before he's about to fight Iofur (the one who has to have his name changed in the moronic film), she managed to look a bit worried. When I read that chapter to my children, 2/4 of them were crying. If it had never been a book, then perhaps it would have been passable. As it was, I nearly did a Clark Griswold, taking the cinema staff hostage and demanding my thirty quid back.

Yes, I am still furious that I wasted part of my life on that shit.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:07 PM
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if it speaks to a lot of people, then there's something good about it

You know who else spoke to a lot of people? That's right. Oggedinejad has sunk to a new low.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:07 PM
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so bad that it makes the previous two worse.

The is a great topic -- so good that I think we must have had this conversation. The concept here is the negative sequel -- the sequel that, in retrospect, makes the original less enjoyable. Some candidates include:

a) Highlander 2
b) Matrix 3
c) Phantom Menace
d) (novel) Amber Spyglass



Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:07 PM
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I'm mystified by people who don't realize that the Lord of The Rings trilogy is the most boring 9 hour fight montage ever.

The movies, the books, and also the Harry Potter movies and books are only fit for retards and crack babies.

There! You have an ally!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:08 PM
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Not really a criterion in my book.

I think that's a mistake in a list like this; if it speaks to a lot of people, then there's something good about it, even if I, or you, personally, don't like it.

Well then please enjoy tonight's double feature of Sleepless in Seattle and You've Got Mail.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:09 PM
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7: Oh yes, The Mirror Has Two Faces is truly atrocious.

Other nominees: Howard the Duck, Ice Pirates, the Kevin Costner Robin Hood.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:10 PM
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Scrolling back thru the thread, I agree with most of the picks, and haven't even started many of the films mentioned.

U Turn doesn't really belong here. It ain't good, but it's not terrible. Just mediocre. And no, I don't really remember it either, but I would if it was painfully bad.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:10 PM
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I have fond memories of reading a very passionate and ultimately unresolved debate in my Catholic church's newsletter about whether or not What Dreams May Come constituted a sacrilege.

I'm nominating Bucket List; I just saw it on a long flight because I can't sleep on flights thinking that there might be a couple of laughs to be had at it but, no, now I just wish even more that I could sleep on long flights.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:11 PM
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A quick skim of Oscar winners of years past reveals that a surprising number them are films that I thought were unwatchably bad: Crash, A Beautiful Mind, American Beauty, Shakespeare in Love. Titanic was pretty silly but was redeemed for me by the Awesome! Sinking! Ship! So! Expensive!

I recently saw The Searchers, which is often listed as one of the best movies of all time, and hoo boy does it ever stink.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:12 PM
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Well then please enjoy tonight's double feature of Sleepless in Seattle and You've Got Mail.

Right, not my cup of tea, but not movies I'd put on this list. Some people might enjoy them!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:12 PM
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I don't understand all this love for Matrix 2. It was pretty terrible in its own right

Highlander 2 is crazily stupid, no question, but you know what was even more pointless? Highlander 3. Not nearly so entertainingly crazy.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:12 PM
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The one that says that death is like taking acid at Glacier National Park.

Glacier would be a terrible place to take acid, because what about the grizzly bears? You couldn't relax. Plus, it's cold. The desert is the right place to take acid. You can tell the scriptwriter who wrote that line just thought the line would sound good. It was all abstract guesswork, not experiential. He hadn't actually tried taking acid in different national parks and figuring out the pros and cons of each. A fraud, in other words.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:13 PM
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My problem is that I really like just about anything, and I'm mostly good at not going to see movies I won't like.

I was surprised that I didn't like Iron Man, but I saw it after taking a muscle relaxant and getting a massage, so I blame that.

On this list alone, I would defend Chasing Amy, Gosford Park, The Good Girl, Elephant, Last Days, the Adam Sandler movie where he waves goodbye to the ghosts of an alligator and Abraham Lincoln, and A.I. With the last, I took the advice of people who told me to stop watching before the end, and it's true: it really is a good movie if you lop off the bit about the Blue Fairy.

I didn't like Good Will Hunting or Waking Life/Slacker, although I don't know that I would warn anyone off seeing them.

I would tell people not to see Star Wars I-III and Matrix II-III, I guess.

Hate on Patch Adams all you want, but the next time you see a doctor and he's compassionate and kind, thank him in your heart. He revolutionized the field and don't you forget it.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:13 PM
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I'm tempted to post spoilers so that others won't make the mistake I did and see Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull, but you wouldn't believe the plot points.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:13 PM
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I recently saw The Searchers, which is often listed as one of the best movies of all time, and hoo boy does it ever stink.

But the symbolism! And Monument Valley! And John Wayne! And the long shots (which have to be seen on the big screen!).

It truly doesn't stink, it's actually pretty good, just sort of overrated.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:14 PM
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183 (d) is very true. I came to the end and thought, all those hours of my life wasted.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:15 PM
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Yeah, the scenery is purty, but I swear, that script was written by like a gang of twelve year olds.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:15 PM
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Oops. 197 to 195.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:16 PM
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Seriously, who looked at that and thought: hmm, it might not suck. Wtf?

A friend of mine was writing a review of it for a website and invited me to help him tear it apart. But it surpassed my low expectations by leaps and bounds.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:16 PM
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Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull was actually the best time I've had in the last couple weeks. Slightly drunk in an original version theater in Munich; absolutely perfect.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:17 PM
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Too many people are ignoring Ogged's criteria. To belong in this category, a movie has to be more than just one that you didn't like. It has to be inherently irredeemable. Think Howard the Duck people. And the American Beauty haters are so wrong.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:18 PM
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I really want to see The Searchers.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:18 PM
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203

I don't get why people seem to hate American Beauty so much. I can see not liking it, but hate?

The Bond movies are, taken together, garbage. On Her Majesty's Secret Service is a possible exception, only because the ridiculous Bond character has to mimic actual human emotion when his wife dies, but the rest of it probably sucked too.

And don't forget The Abyss. Abysmal.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:18 PM
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My problem is that I really like just about anything, and I'm mostly good at not going to see movies I won't like.

Yeah, I'm also like this. It's always a surprise when I don't like something, and I usually don't realize it until a week or two later.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:18 PM
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Whoever said Smilla's Sense of Snow was right. Jesus that was bad.

Gosford Park is good, though. And hating on kids movies isn't fair, unless it's The Neverending Story.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:19 PM
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You know what Glacier also has? Wood ticks. I got one on my butt for three days and got a mysterious illness (not Lyme or RMSF). We walked up into the hills above the lodge and met a group of noble Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep going down to the lodge to beg.

And they gave me a disease, the motherfuckers.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:19 PM
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Since Ben asked, back in #3: Magnificent Ambersons is the most highly critically praised worthless film I've seen, I think. It gets all kinds of attention whenever it gets local screenings, it's in histories of film, on and on, and I'll be damned if I can figure out why. The acting, photography, sound, everything sucks.

Out in the field of popular film, Lost in Space seems a reasonable candidate. I don't recall even enjoying the music, and I'm really easy to please with action film music.

As a general thing I don't have a lot of entertainment or artistic hates, because I get bored much more easily than I get offended, so I tend to just wander off. Lots of things I have no opinion about beyond "I wasn't moved to keep with it", so I have no idea if they actually suck like black holes or are just dull.


Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:21 PM
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And they gave me a disease, the motherfuckers.

your fault for having sex with them.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:21 PM
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183:

Sci-fi book series fall into this category all too often:

The last Foundation book (I don't even remember what it was called).
The end of most Philip K. Dick books (he sure could write, but he sure could not write an ending to a novel)
Most of the Robert Jordan series
Most of the Dune series


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:22 PM
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201: see, I think Howard The Duck was so unbelievably awful that it becomes sort of perversely watchable.

205: you don't like The Neverending Story? Geez, shrivelled black hearted or what?

The Abyss had interesting moments and a stupid ending.

You people are terrible at this game.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:22 PM
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194: Whatever, snob. It was fun. Also, the Bond movies are fun.

You people.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:23 PM
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210.1: No, dear god.
210.2: No, it's awful. That terrible-looking dragon, and the whiney song, and. . . . I dunno, maybe the rest of it wasn't so awful, I honestly don't remember much other than seeing it and thinking "yuck."


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:24 PM
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Yeah, The Abyss is where Spielberg stole the AI ending idea from.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:24 PM
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Oh wait! That one with Keanu Reeves and Al Pacino as the devil! That one is just godawful. Also Scent of a Woman. Al Pacino's done some really crap films.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:26 PM
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212: damn I loved that movie. Mostly because I had a crush on the princess, but the puppets were neat, too.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:26 PM
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Also Scent of a Woman

Oh, come on.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:27 PM
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Come on, The Devil's Advocate was awesome.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:27 PM
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215: How old were you?

You know the one I loved until I made Mr. B. see it by saying "what, you haven't seen this? It's awesome!"? Harold and Maude. Seriously, that movie is embarrassing.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:28 PM
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214: Devil's Advocate! That definitely counts as so-terrible-and-over-the-top-it-becomes-watchable. I won't defend Scent of a Woman in the slightest.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:28 PM
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Harold and Maude

Oh, come on.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:29 PM
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i don't know how bad compared to others
but i did not like recently the little miss sunshine, da vinci code, hairspray
coz people did not name them yet so i add
the cockroach movie


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:30 PM
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216, 217: You people are crazy. Also astonishingly tolerant of terrible acting, derivative plots, and by-the-numbers "big" scenes. Hooo-ya!


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:31 PM
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Mostly because I had a crush on the princess,

That's the Childlike Empress, damn you.

When I turned 15 or so I thought "Childlike Empress" would be a great name for a riot-grl band, or a zine or something like that. Then it turned out that there was in fact a zine called that. But it wasn't too interesting.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:32 PM
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That terrible-looking dragon, and the whiney song, and. . . .

I think B has the movie confused with this.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:33 PM
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220: I'm not saying it belongs on The List, because obviously a lot of people still like it. I'm saying it's one that when I saw it again as an adult I thought, "aw, jesus."


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:33 PM
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Scent of a Woman was pretty bad, but nowhere near bad enough to make this list. And PMP is right in 219. Plus the she-devil in Devil's Advocate is unbelievably hot (and that's even in comparison with Charlize Theron).


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:34 PM
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If you like hot she-devils and want to see an over-the-top performance by a veteran New York stage actor born in 1940, The Ninth Gate is a far better option than The Devil's Advocate.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:36 PM
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Yeah, The Ninth Gate is good popcorn fluff.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:37 PM
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Since you're all apparently too timid to go for the gusto, it's left to me to actually nominate a full 101 films in order of unwatchability or sheer evil. (And no fudging with easy targets like Z-movies, Eddie Murphy/Martin Lawrence-in-a-fat-suit movies, obscure sequels or joints by Ed Wood or Uwe Boll. We'll take those as givens.) Let's do this:

1. 300
2. The Passion of the Christ
3. Battlefield Earth
4. Apocalypto
5. Strange Days
6. 8MM
7-10. The major representatives of the "torture porn" horror genre: Saw, Turistas, Hostel, Captivity
11-12. Operation: Dumbo Drop and Delta Farce (entries in the "isn't war just a great setting for screwball comedy?" genre)
13. Hudson Hawk
14. Triple X: State of the Union
15. Showgirls
16. Catwoman
17. Cool as Ice
18. Street Fighter (a.k.a. the swan song of Raul Julia)
19. Dungeons & Dragons
20. Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever
21. Gigli
22. Eragon
23. Alexander
24. Van Helsing
25. Armageddon
26. The Pink Panther (Steve Martin remake)
27. Scary Movie (progenitor of an entire genre of witless pseudo-comedies)
28. Team America: World Police
29. Cyborg
30. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
31. The Burbs
32. Bamboozled
33. Out for Justice
34-36. The Star Wars prequels in order
37-43. The crappy Star Trek movies (III, V, VI and all the rest to date)
44-45. The Matrix sequels
46. Multiplicity
47. Pinocchio (Benigni version)
48. Life is Beautiful
49. I'm Not There
50. Home Alone
51. Smoking Aces
52. Cool World
53. Howard the Duck
54. Barbarella (it's actually just really boring)
55. The Saint (Val Kilmer)
56-58. Representing the "bad SNL spin-offs" genre: The Master of Disguise, It's Pat, A Night at the Roxbury
59. Ocean's Eleven (the original, not the remake)
60. The Conqueror (John Wayne as Genghis Khan)
61. Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot
62. Every Which Way But Loose
63. The Ten
64. Ultraviolet
65. Let's Go to Prison
66. Kickin' It Old School
67. The Da Vinci Code
68. Gymkata
69. Red Sonja
70. Red Dawn
71-72. The Punisher (both movies)
73-74. The "who would win in a fight?" genre: Alien vs. Predator, Freddy vs. Jason
75. The Real Cancun
76-79. The "pop stars making fools of themselves" genre: Glitter, Crossroads, Spice World, Swept Away
80-81. Representing the New Minstrelsy: How High, Soul Plane
82. The Postman
83. The Patriot
84. Naked
85. The Chronicles of Riddick
86. Masked and Anonymous
87. American Beauty
88. Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow
89. Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers
90. King Arthur
91-94. The "Robin Williams-in-his-maudlin-phase" genre: What Dreams May Come, Patch Adams, Bicentennial Man, Jakob the Liar
95. Paparazzi
96. The Transformers (Michael Bay version)
97. I Am Legend
98. Into the Wild
99. Sweeney Todd
100. 3:10 to Yuma (the remake)
101. Atonement


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:41 PM
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The only movie I have ever walked out on in a theater is Honkytonk Man. I was going to put that on this list.

But clearly, this is not right. To meet the criteria of wanting your time back, you have to invest your time. To have invested all that time, you have to have kept hoping it would get better.



Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:42 PM
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Most of the Robert Jordan series
Most of the Dune series

Goodkind is an artist at this game. "Thought my first book was decent enough to buy the next one? Welcome to my objectivist screed, motherfucker!"


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:43 PM
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Sorry, Doctor Skrull, but your lists has some errors. The pool scene in Showgirls is funny enough to fully redeem that film.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:43 PM
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Hudson Hawk! Clearly an entry in the so bad it's entertaining category. As is Showgirls.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:43 PM
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Oh, go ahead and own the whole thread right before I comment, why don't you.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:44 PM
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my nieces liked Home alone, so for the kids maybe you can edit the list


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:44 PM
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82. The Postman
83. The Patriot

Glad to see someone else put these on there, because I was going to do them and Braveheart, but then I thought, "no, probably not bad *enough*."

you have to have kept hoping it would get better.

This is how I felt about The Mirror Has Two Faces. I actually walked out of it like ten, fifteen minutes before the end because I couldn't take it any more, but the friend who'd seen it with me sat through the entire thing and told me that the end was just as bad as everything up to that point.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:46 PM
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(I see someone was praising Apocalypto upthread. It comes near the top of my list for "sheer evil" reasons, as well as general silliness.)


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:47 PM
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Good list, but the "Robin Williams in his maudlin phase" section also needs Jack, The Fisher King, House of D, and August Rush. Yes, that phase is going on 20 years now.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:47 PM
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Wow, DS, that's impressive. I don't understand how people make lists like that. I usually think, "Huh, now I can't remember a single movie I've ever seen."

With that digression out of the way, I confess that your list is pretty solid, except that Showgirls is great, Naked was interesting, Two Towers wasn't that bad and I Am Legend, though bad, wasn't bad enough to make the list.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:47 PM
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DS's list is not in the spirit of Unfooged. He's right and everything, but his being right is no fun for the rest of us. I suggest that he be formally reprimanded.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:47 PM
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The pool scene in Showgirls is funny enough to fully redeem that film.

My god, that's the actual scene?


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:48 PM
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232: I'd fully expect a Skrull to think so.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:48 PM
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229:Wait the David Thewlis Naked? There must be some other movie by that name.

I like the way cool rifle in Smoking Aces. Have little disagreement with the rest of your list.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:49 PM
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183: Alien 3 belongs on that list.

You just do not kill off the characters the audience sympathized with in the previous movie before the first line of dialogue!

Prior to Lost in Space, Alien 3 was my pick for "worst movie I've ever paid to see."


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:49 PM
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formally reprimanded

DS is banned!


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:50 PM
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DS, Bravo!

I have quibbles, of course, and I'll set those aside. These are the movies on your list that I not only like, but would urge others to see:

32. Bamboozled
49. I'm Not There
70. Red Dawn
84. Naked
89. Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers
98. Into the Wild

(70 should perhaps be in the quibble category. But Bamboozled is a favorite. And what was wrong with Naked?)


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:50 PM
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Showgirls doesn't count because it'ts awesome in much in the same way that Death Race 2000 is. Try to acquire an appreciation of fine film before you start talking shit.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:50 PM
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Wow, and DS does his part to take this thread to 1000.

(You forgot From Justin to Kelly in the 76-79 stretch.)


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:51 PM
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But! The original Ocean's Eleven is exactly right. I watched that because, you know, Soderbergh remade it, so. And I kept thinking, something better will happen. And then it was over, and like, what the hell?


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:52 PM
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Knocked Up came round on cable this week. Ok fine, have watched it twice.

But since this is a bad movie thread, does anyone want to defend the Zach Braff movies here? Or do they get a pass as kiddie flicks?


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:53 PM
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I had never seen anything from Showgirls either. That pool scene, just . . . wow.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:54 PM
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54. Barbarella

My 11 year old self strenuously disagrees with you. The scene where Jane Fonda is tied down in the giant sex device was formative to my youthful sexuality. All else was forgiven in the movie after that.

28. Team America: World Police

Come on. Way too funny to be on the list.

Also, I liked Apocalypto. The visual representation of pre-contact South America was just too cool. The alien setting made it less politically noxious than other Mel Gibson vicious revenge fantasies (Braveheart, etc.)

Otherwise, nice job DS.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:54 PM
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Oh, and Smoking Aces. Also completely unredeemable. I think I have Yglesias to blame for that one.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:54 PM
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The scene where Jane Fonda is tied down in the giant sex device was formative to my youthful sexuality.

Note to self: PK is not allowed to watch Barbarella.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:55 PM
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The link in 232 is pretty awesome. If you have to have an orgasm, you may as well make it a big floppy one like that.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:56 PM
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98. Into the Wild

I've been trying to watch this this past week, after just finishing the book, but it's really bad. Not The List bad, but bad--everything interesting about the kid is erased.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:56 PM
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70. Red Dawn

Wait, I take it back. Fuck you, DS! How many times do I have to defend the greatness of that movie around here!


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:56 PM
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Oh, yeah, what was that super-crappy Nick Cage movie where he's an angel, but can choose to become mortal because he falls in love with Meg Ryan? IMDB tells me it's City of Angels. That's gotta be near the top of the list.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:57 PM
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The concept here is the negative sequel -- the sequel that, in retrospect, makes the original less enjoyable.

Weiner is calling this a 'crapstone' over at his blog.

I don't have much to add. Beowulf. The Assassination of Jesse James by the Longest Title Ever. The Abyss pissed me off. Most people either just get drunk and make up or get a divorce; most don't get space aliens or mutant whales or whatever the hell was in the damn abyss to save their marriage.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:57 PM
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I agree with PGD about Barbarella. I don't remember the sex device, but the opening scene is great.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:57 PM
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Prêt-à-Porter (Ready to Wear), Altman shows that it takes a master to really screw it up.

Inserts with Richard Dreyfuss.

And it is clichéd to even mention it in a list like this, but the rollerskating scene in Heaven's Gate cements its place on the list.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:58 PM
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I am disappointed in this thread. I thought it would be "least essential movies of all time". We got off to a good start with nominations of The Good Girl, Lost in Space, U-Turn, and America's Sweethearts. But no, all we have here once again is "This movie that everyone hates is awful", and "This movie that everyone loves is awful".

What about the movies that nobody cares about, for good reason, and whose very lack of any notable features are what make them stand apart from (beneath) the crowd? The ones that are doomed-from-the-start, late-to-the-party trend-followers are especially interesting. DS's mention of Ultraviolet is a good one.

Sometimes I like to pick these out at the public library and watch them. Sometimes an utterly predictable-looking film that got no press at the time, and stars people who are famous yet somehow not interesting, is surprisingly good. "Dinner Rush", with Danny Aiello, is one.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:58 PM
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The last Foundation book (I don't even remember what it was called).

"What the Hell, it's been Robots all along."


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 4:59 PM
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Legend of the Overfiend.

Dude. I must have watched it at least half a dozen times as various people would find out that various other people hadn't seen it and then we'd all get really high and make them watch it.

On the other hand, I love The Sound of Music.

Honestly, this year's very own Doomsday belongs on this list. There is absolutely nothing to redeem it.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:00 PM
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Smoking Aces, indeed. There are way too many bad movies to be debating over the relative merits of The Da Vinci Code and Devil's Advocate. Good movies are few, as are the spectacularly bad. Listing the mediocre is stupid and nearly endless. So go one or the other, and don't fuck about.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:00 PM
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252: I'm guessing that Team America makes it onto DS's list for being evil, not for being unwatchable.

It was a funny movie, but given where the US was at the time, it was unnerving how it was adopted by the warmongering wingnuts, who thought they were being clever laughing at themselves.

It would be a different movie if it were released now.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:01 PM
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98. Into the Wild

I've been trying to watch this this past week, after just finishing the book, but it's really bad.

No, it's a good movie. The kid's character is flattened out somewhat, but he's still more interesting than a fictional hero would be. The depiction of life on the road is pretty accurate and interesting, also warm and open-hearted. The survival stuff in Alaska at the end works and is compelling.

I suspect that someone who had not actually hitchhiked a lot would think the movie is more sentimentalized and less realistic than it is.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:01 PM
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Naked (yes, the Thewlis movie) has many defenders, but the reason I've always hated it is that it seems to me like raw, unreflective misogyny (and misanthropy) dressed up in art-house rags.

I fell asleep during the Battle of Helm's Deep the first time I saw The Two Towers. The second time I saw it, I found that every other scene was making me cringe and I had to switch it off. I'd recommend people watch the opening montage with Gandalf and the Balrog and then do something else.

I'm Not There featured some really good performances, actually, but they were wasted on a painfully pretentious, fanboy-ish wank of a film. (Gere-as-Dylan-as-Billy the Kid? Come on.)

Bamboozled I tend to dislike because it's like being hit with a sledgehammer over and over.

248.2: Point.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:02 PM
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Sometimes an utterly predictable-looking film that got no press at the time, and stars people who are famous yet somehow not interesting, is surprisingly good. "Dinner Rush", with Danny Aiello, is one.

Oh, I thought of the other one. "Light Sleeper". Guy is a depressed drug dealer, who cares. Willem Dafoe, Dana Delaney, Susan Sarandon, I guess those are good actors, but I'm not really excited to see them. Directed by Paul Schrader, better known for his screenplays and for Cat People. Music by the guy from the terrible band The Call. Sheesh, I'm surprised they wanted a full dollar for the VHS tape of this instead of fifty cents.

Well, it's an amazing movie.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:03 PM
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Team America: World Police

I also have to argue with this entry. I say the movie gets a pass if only for the line "Oh I am serious. Look, this is my serious face."


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:03 PM
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238: I'm generally down on Robin Williams, but I'll defend The Fisher King.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:04 PM
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Team America: World Police

My brother cracked up over the presence of the Film Actors' Guild. He wants to be a lawyer someday.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:06 PM
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275: Fuck Robin Williams, and all his works.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:07 PM
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256: That's good to know - I would otherwise have gotten it from Netflix someday - interesting book, interesting director, gorgeous locations, how could it go wrong?

Oh, and that scene from Showgirls was awful. No wonder everyone hates that movie.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:07 PM
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Dana Delaney

Hot!

Susan Sarandon

Hot!

The Call

I used to be a huge Call fan. Slightly embarrassed now.

Well, it's an amazing movie.

Of course!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:07 PM
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In the "good movies that no one's seen" camp, I nominate Into the Spirit, Into the West, and Where the Heart Is (the one with Dabney Coleman).


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:07 PM
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As if to prove my point re: City of Angels IMDB also recommends Titanic and What Dreams May Come.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:07 PM
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Oh! Oh! You know what movie is really overrated? Brokeback Mountain. Great cinematography, but a completely pointless movie that brought me hours closer to death.

Also ANAL SEX DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:07 PM
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Jeez, in my rating system you lose two stars for being pretentious and self-serious and having absurdly failed ambitions, but gain a star for laughing at yourself and being a hoot.

So Smoking Aces is way better than DaVinci Code or Devil's Advocate or American Beauty. I mean Jeremy Pivens, c'mon.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:07 PM
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a painfully pretentious, fanboy-ish wank of a film

I prefer "an artistically realized postmodern portrait". Potato, pahtahtah; the Billy the Kid sequence dragged some but was beautiful everywhere. Maybe I'm speaking as a Greil Marcus "Old Weird America" fanboy.

People ought see Sean Penn's three movies prior to Into The Wild. I've been on about this here before.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:07 PM
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Sorry, PGD, but Red Dawn still sucks and will always suck.

Team America is on there because of the disappointment factor; it's like a lobotomized version of a Stone and Parker film. It's cowardly in the extreme as satire (ooh, Hollywood actors are dumb, there's a daring stand), utterly safe as Red State propaganda, and therefore has to fall back for humour on "Look! We suck with puppets!" and "Hey! Did you know Koreans have funny accents?" The puppet sex scene is funny... once.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:08 PM
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271: "...and buy ye a fifth of Jack Daniel's, that ye may be shit-faced! Doo-lang, doo-lang!" buys a movie a bit of indulgence.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:08 PM
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I agree with PGD about Barbarella. I don't remember the sex device, but the opening scene is great.

Here you go Ogged.

The sex-positive feminist undertone is that Barbarella blows out the machine through sheer orgasmic capacity. Although the scene itself is laughable today, this part is accurate to my adult experience.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:09 PM
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Hostel is a damned good movie. The sequel is the piece of crap that both are tagged as, but anyone who's going off with confidence on Hostel without having bothered to actually watch it is the mental comrade of all our favorites on the American right.

But of course a lot of this exercise is some mix of "I'm going to sneer rather than admit I'm afraid to have fun" and "I like to pick on the same targets as everyone while pretending I'm brave", so what the hell.


Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:09 PM
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I had Team America on my quibble list, and 281 nails why it wasn't worth quibbling.

I did enjoy Matt Damon as too dumb to say anything but his own name. Parker and Stone's hatred is really pure; when allowed to express itself in the absence of social context, it can be sublime.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:10 PM
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Bamboozled I tend to dislike because it's like being hit with a sledgehammer over and over.

Very true, and I thought that was a pretty good thing. As discussions here have shown, even the best-intentioned honkies among us have an exceedingly hard time grasping what pernicious societal racism actually does to people. After watching Bamboozled, the effect of the repeated blows for an hour and a half topped off with the incredibly intense final montage leaves you unable to do anything but sit back and go "Shit." And I think that's the proper response.

But as I've commented here before, I did think the Damen Wayans character was really poorly done.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:11 PM
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I haven't read the thread, but has anyone mentioned Four Rooms? Dreadful, but unfortunately not dreadful enough to be entertaining. Just an incoherent, irrational, pointless waste of time. Even Lili Taylor can do nothing to save it. Bah.

(I have no idea how it got 6.2 on the IMDB scale, which is usually reasonably reliable. I did like this review: "All in all, the first film I've ever seen that starts out with a loathsome, horrifying badness, gets incrementally better with each passing fifteen minutes, and ends as good as one would like. Just don't make me watch it again.")


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:11 PM
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284: Hostel is a damned good movie.

I have seen it, and do not concur.

285: I did enjoy Matt Damon as too dumb to say anything but his own name.

It's sort of funny until you realize it's just a retread of the "Timmeh!" joke from South Park.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:13 PM
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The '70s remake of The Lone Ranger was pretty bad, as I recall.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:13 PM
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289: I saw it at the drive-in with a double bill of Tarzan: Lord of Greystoke. Sitting on a blanket on the hood of my dad's 55 Buick Roadmaster. Can't complain.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:15 PM
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281 gets it right. Watch five minutes of a Stone-Parker anything, and it can be a uniquely fun satire. Watch a half hour, and you realize "Wait...these guys don't actually hate this thing they're satirizing more than they hate anything else. They just have scorn for every person who has ever lived and isn't exactly like them."

Watch a few hours, and you just think "Wow, libertarians really are assholes." Either that, or you decide to become an awesome libertarian because it's the only way to avoid being worthy of the contempt of awesome libertarians.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:16 PM
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The Richard Dreyfus reference reminded me: Mr. Holland's Opus, the title of which refers to one of the most unspeakably awful pieces of music in cinema history.

A 3 in the title almost guarantees consideration for The List. Case in point, The Godfather, Part III: A Night at the Opera.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:18 PM
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Well, the Richard Dreyfus reference in 292 reminded me of "Krippendorf's Tribe".

Haven't thought of that one in a while, eh, people:?


Posted by: Ardent reader | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:19 PM
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292: Lethal Weapon 3 was so egregiously bad that the egregiously bad Lethal Weapon 4 represented a return to form.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:20 PM
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Drive-ins are great sources for bad movies. I think 3 of the worst movies I've even seen, I saw at the drive-in, including Superman 3, Clash of the Titans, Dead Ringers, and, worst of all, a double feature of Don't Tell Mom, the Babysitter's Dead, and Body Parts.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:20 PM
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For this I de-lurk after all this time. What The Bleep Do We Know? Debate the inclusion that one.


Posted by: brandon | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:21 PM
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284: Not just a retread. The "Timmeh!" joke makes fun of a class of people. "Matt Damon!" joke makes fun of Matt Damon. And people who like him.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:21 PM
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Is the class of people who like Matt Damon so large and threatening to Parker and Stone that it could only be countered with the devastating power of repetitive, tedious jokes?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:23 PM
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Debate the inclusion that one.

Is it just me, or does every single delurking include one obvious error? It's some weird psychological thing.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:23 PM
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300.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:26 PM
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For the worthless and forgotten: 1408, a horror movie starring John Cusack that was ordered on On Demand just as the weed started to run out; the writer seemed to be suffering from the same problem, and the last twenty minutes consisted of, "Shit, I guess we'll flip between 'it's all in his head' and 'no it's totally real!' one more time," repeatedly.

Also, the audience is asked to believe that John Cusack is an avid surfer.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:26 PM
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Is it just me, or is it objectively true that Cusack used to be awesome and then totally fell apart?


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:28 PM
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Mr. Holland's Opus was so deeply icky and awful it's hard to express. It was like Richard Dreyfus was presenting the case for euthanizing all middle-aged Jewish male liberals. Since I'm one of those, I found the movie very disturbing.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:28 PM
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Destroyer gets it right in 301.

These movies should not be the subject of debates over "Is it good or is it bad". The debate should be "Is it actively bad, or is it utterly mediocre". Nobody on earth, not even willfully perverse counterintuitivists, John Cusack fans, or Armond White, could consider 1408 one of their top 100 movies of all time. It's just that inessential.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:30 PM
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Here you go Ogged.

Thanks! I don't think the scene is laughable. Pretentious older guy thinks that his carefully constructed lovemaking scheme will overwhelm the young beauty, but he's destroyed and the young beauty moves on. Nice. Also, you're a sadist.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:30 PM
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The Smoking Aces has some good scenes but they are hidden in the big pile of fail.


Posted by: lemmy caution | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:31 PM
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Is it just me, or is it objectively true that Cusack used to be awesome and then totally fell apart?

If the notion that he was ever awesome is based on Say Anything, then it was a deeply misguided notion. I haven't seen many of his early movies, but I think he was always already not awesome.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:32 PM
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For this I de-lurk after all this time. What The Bleep Do We Know?

This movie was so, so bad. Please, no one else sacrifice the time and brain cells for this movie. Let the pain stop here.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:33 PM
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It's some weird psychological thing insufficient w-lfs-nophobia.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:34 PM
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307, now you're just being contrary.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:34 PM
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What the Bleep should be included under the "pernicious" category, not the "worthless and forgotten" one.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:35 PM
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19. Dungeons & Dragons

Good god, this movie was horrible. I'd luckily forgotten just how bad it really was.

I saw this at roughly the same time as some horrible Freddie Prinze Jr. / Julia Stiles film, the name of which I have forgotten. That movie should go on the list, along with Die Hard 2 and Color of Night, kicking off the movies below (and maybe Red Dawn).

85. The Chronicles of Riddick

This movie is clearly in the "so bad it's good" category.

96. The Transformers (Michael Bay version)

You are on crack. I bet you don't like The Rock either.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:36 PM
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305: you're right, there's something metaphorically rather sophisticated going on in that scene. I said laughable as a CYA disclaimer.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:36 PM
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Having recently rewatched Say Anything I can say it's much more boring than I remembered it being. The other 80s angst movies were far more entertaining. It does get credit for inspiring a billion crushes though.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:37 PM
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there's something metaphorically rather sophisticated going on in that scene

"Energy cables are shrinking" was my clue.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:41 PM
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312: [Chronicles of Riddick] is clearly in the "so bad it's good" category.

I dunno, "so bad it's good" to me means that yeah, I'm laughing at this, but at least my attention isn't wandering. I still don't know and don't care what the plot of CoR is supposed to be.

You are on crack. I bet you don't like The Rock either.

Indeed I do not. But the original Transformers movie was so bad it was good.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:42 PM
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I haven't read all the comments, but we seem to have gotten 300 comments in without mentioning Natural Born Killers. This strikes me as a grave oversight.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:42 PM
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300+ comments on the topic of movies no one cares enough about to hate? Is it Monday or something?


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:42 PM
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Re: Cusack.

Say Anything is not so great though of course the "buy sell process" speech rules.

I did like and Grosse Pointe Blank.

I have a theory The Sure Thing, Better Off Dead and One Crazy Summer may have had merits as teen movies but I haven't seen any of them recently.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:44 PM
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317 is so right.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:44 PM
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I was just wondering how many of the parents would rather watch any of these movies than clean their kids' room.

Because I think that's really the test. I honestly would rather clean PK's room than watch Howard the Duck again.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:44 PM
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Prozac Nation
Pirates of the Caribbean II


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:46 PM
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I dunno, "so bad it's good" to me means that yeah, I'm laughing at this, but at least my attention isn't wandering. I still don't know and don't care what the plot of CoR is supposed to be.

Really? I only saw it once, but I thought it was something like (hiding spoilers!):

Vin Diesel is a badass and battles against the man, evil space aliens are destroying humanity, Vin Diesel continues to be a badass and defeats the man, then battles against the evil space aliens and sort of wins but ultimately humanity loses.

Indeed I do not. But the original Transformers movie was so bad it was good.

I would hope that if you tried to categorize things on a two-by-two matrix of "do i like" vs. "is good at what it's trying to be", you could see that there might be some value to both of these films.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:47 PM
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The Assassination of Jesse James by the Longest Title Ever

Oh yes Jesus that movie was awful.

Remember around 1992 when there were, like, three or four movies about Christopher Columbus? All sucked.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:47 PM
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Universal Soldier. J-C v D at some of his worst.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:48 PM
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I have a theory The Sure Thing, Better Off Dead and One Crazy Summer may have had merits as teen movies but I haven't seen any of them recently.

All pretty good, and you have them in order of merit, but none as great as Grosse Point Blank. And, yes, Say Anything is an abomination.

Transforners sucked, and is directly responsible for Shia LaBoef (or whatever) being in Indy 4 (which I haven't seen).


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:49 PM
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Now these are going to be popping up in my head all evening.

The Hunted. Note to self: when movie crews waste huge amounts of your time by tying up traffic filming in your town, avoid the finished product on principle. That way, when it turns out to suck, you won't have wasted even more of your time.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:57 PM
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323.3: I only saw it once, but I thought it was something like [describes]

Yeah, probably something like that, but I just can't be arsed.

The matrix I'm using is "does it entertain me," "is it good at what it's trying to be" and "do I respect what it's trying to be."

324: I liked The Assassination of Jesse James etc, but I'm a sucker for "a different sort of Western" Westerns; I liked Unforgiven on similar grounds.

325: Universal Soldier wasn't that bad, but not good either. One of those truly inessential movies that CN was looking for. (JcvD at his worst is The Quest.)


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:59 PM
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Christ. I may have to marshall my strength for Say Anything.

Since I don't have much of it, and I'd rather be huddled on the couch fighting off my summer cold with Simon Pegg's Saved series 2, here goes:

1. It is good for the reasons you remember it is good. Lloyd is a man, not a guy, which is good advice. Standing outside the window playing "In Your Eyes" is phenomenally romantic. John Cusack is funny and vulnerable like you remember him.

2. Behind the good teen flick is a good political flick, which I group with Spanking the Monkey as a "Fear of Falling" movie. The weird corruption plot is driven by class and status anxiety so severe that Ione Skye's dad commits fraud to send his daughter to college.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 5:59 PM
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I wish I could remember the title of the MOTW where Michael Gross played the out-of-shape madman. It was like a Lifetime fem jep thing, and Michael Gross was wearing track suits and threatening to kill the protagonist.

Tremors was awesome. And no matter what Joss Whedon says, the original Buffy movie was terrific.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:02 PM
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And no matter what Joss Whedon says, the original Buffy movie was terrifically bad.

Although Paul Reubens was freaking hilarious in it.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:03 PM
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I'll mention Jungle Book again. A weird sexual fantasy. I have no idea whether the weirdness was there in the Kipling. And since it was a kids' movie, Nature Boy doesn't get to bang the demure Victorian sex goddess who loves him. Seeing savage animals eat Brits may have been a compensation but I didn't watch that long.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:04 PM
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Wait, The Hunted was actually SET in British Columbia, but FILMED in the United States?! Now there's some topsy-turvydom.


Posted by: Ardent reader | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:04 PM
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I may have to marshall my strength for Say Anything

The things you say are true. But I watched it recently, and found it slow and meandering.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:04 PM
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Also I see that probably owing to bad html The Grifters got cut out of my sentence about good Cusack. That's a creepy movie.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:07 PM
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327: On the subject of film productions tying up one's town, I now hope this actress becomes a big star, ever since I saw her wandering around the Andy Warhol Museum between shoots of this movie, asking people "Where is this alleged taco bar?"


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:08 PM
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324: I liked The Assassination of Jesse James etc, but I'm a sucker for "a different sort of Western" Westerns; I liked Unforgiven on similar grounds.

What a strange sentence. I was about to just post my agreement with it, because I also like Assassination, but everyone loves Unforgiven and no explanation of that is required.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:08 PM
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Transformers didn't just waste my time it actually caused physical pain in my eyes as it burned them with its awfulness.

Cusack is awesome, though, and I look forward to seeing War, Inc.. I also loved the LotR movies. I've never been into reading fantasy but I enjoyed the movies enough to go read the books for the first time after seeing the first film.

There is such a thing as allowing one's inner critic to go fuck itself for two hours of enjoyment. Despite my burning hatred of Shia LeBeouf I enjoyed Indy 4 and would gladly pay to watch it again in the theatre.

On my list of awesome movies no one's seen, the Billy Nayer Show's American Astronaut, hands down. So awesome. It makes me happy to watch any random five minutes from it.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:09 PM
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Paul Reubens was freaking hilarious in it

Which helped make it terrific!

Look, it ain't the show. It's a whole nother animal from the show. Here's the sequence where Buffy's trying to choose the prom theme. It ends up being "Hug The Earth".


CASSANDRA
So, what are the most immediate
threats to the world environment
right now?

JEFFREY
Well, um... litter?

ANDY
Litter, yeah!

JEFFREY
(to Cassandra)
Write that down.

JENNIFER
Okay, what else?

NICOLE
Forest fires?

ANDY
Communism?

BUFFY
Bugs.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:09 PM
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Tremors was awesome. And no matter what Joss Whedon says, the original Buffy movie was terrific.

Absolutely true.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:10 PM
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I'm glad Transformers is getting panned; Mr. B. got it from Netflix recently and the opening scene made PK--who normally is quite tolerant of PG-13 type movies--cry. Therefore, I hate it.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:12 PM
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Universal Soldier. J-C v D at some of his worst.

I still remember the Entertainment Weekly summary: "The missing link between acting and claymation."

(From the "free association" files: Clay-o-rama (pdf).)


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:12 PM
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True, I have a soft spot for the bit in one of the final fight scenes where Luke Perry distracts one of the vamps by pointing and saying, "Look! Air!"


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:12 PM
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Cusack's still making plenty of good stuff amid the not-so-good. The Ice Harvest. Pushing Tin. Max. Being John Malkovich.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:13 PM
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Continuing 336, I see that she comes from about 10 miles from where I grew up. All I know about her hometown is that the big tourist attraction is an animatronic gorilla in front of a furniture store.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:14 PM
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337: That would be the Eastwood Factor at work.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:14 PM
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Grifters is indeed a creepy movie.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:15 PM
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Nicely done, slol.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:15 PM
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Cusack's problem is that for a while, you could say, "Oh, I can pay to watch John Cusack in just about anything," and then not anymore you couldn't. I think he likes money a lot.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:15 PM
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Cusack starred in one of the only two good romantic comedies ever made, and I won't hear a word against him.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:18 PM
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This article convinced me once and for all that my dislike of John Cusack was justified.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:19 PM
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352: See, that increased my appreciation for Tony Danza.

350: If Say Anything's the first, what's the second? And is Say Anything the first?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:22 PM
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The 352: in 352 s/b 351:.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:23 PM
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Lloyd is a man, not a guy, which is good advice.

We had a long thread about this which I can't find, but mmm, no.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:24 PM
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Oh yeah, Dead Poets Society. Angel Heart! Apparently any movie where a pretty good actor has a cameo as Satan is going to suck.

The newest extraordinarily bad movie, so bad it retrospectively ruins the television show, of which I had only seen one season, and which I don't have to see the rest of now because it's so tainted with badness? Sex and the City.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:24 PM
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This one, Tim?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:29 PM
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352: Fuck Say Anything, I was talking about High Fidelity, and Hornby be damned, it was a good movie.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:29 PM
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I think he likes money a lot.

I'm too lazy to look it up, but Cusack admitted as much in a fairly recent interview, where he acknowledged that much of what he's done is crap.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:32 PM
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356: I think so. I thought it was more "Say Anything"-centric. It's sad that I couldn't find it and you could. What did you search for?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:37 PM
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"Dobler".


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:42 PM
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360: Huh. Seems kind of obvious once you've been told. Anyway, that's probably the thread.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:45 PM
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My town seems to be a favorite location for makers of bad movies, if this thread is anything to go by. Into the Wild, What the Bleep Do We Know, Mr. Holland's Opus, The Hunted, Elephant—let's throw in Body of Evidence while we're at it. I can't weigh in on Bongwater, The Temp or Untraceable, but maybe they also belong on The List.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:45 PM
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Pi. A headache in the form of a film.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:47 PM
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I'm glad to see Say Anything hatred is fairly widespread here. I've always felt like a heretic for not liking it. And what a letdown that scene was after seeing so many of those Cusack-with-a-boombox posters. He just stood there with a dopey expression on his face for a few seconds, and than it was over. And contra the expectations brought about in me by the posters and broader culture--that the movie was a moving tale of star-crossed lovers from two different classes--the bulk of the movie seemed to be some maudlin crap about the dad's separation anxiety.

Speaking of scenes that were a letdown, I nominate the kissing-in-ocean scene in From Here to Eternity.

27 Dresses was playing on the airplane on my recent transatlantic flight. Despite the boredom and how hot Katherine Heigl looked, I still couldn't make it through more than about 30 min. Maybe it redeems itself.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:50 PM
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Elephant was a good movie except for one gratuitous scene.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:50 PM
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The Avengers. Reading Goldman and Mamet on film-making only partially explains how and why some atrocities get released.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:52 PM
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Oh, and I think Halle Berry's recent murder mystery vehicle, Perfect Stranger is an archetype of the category under discussion.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 6:58 PM
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367 comments and no-one has mentioned Legends of the Fall?


Posted by: cdm | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 7:00 PM
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Mamet. Mamet, Mamet. Spartan should have been on my 101 movies to miss list: a would-be passable thriller in which the ridiculous dialogue stinks everything else up to high heaven. "You've got to get me to the tall corn." "Indicate that you heard me." "You, stop. The Man. Let The Girl go." "You need to set your motherfucker to receive." "She just took the long way home."


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 7:08 PM
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I'm only up to comment 31, and Ham-Love has already destroyed my theory on Chasing Amy (that you would like it in inverse proportion to your chances of being in a threesome). Actually, now that I think about it, I have exactly backwards: the only people I have ever known who liked it were people who had been in threesomes.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 7:08 PM
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368: Also an awful movie.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 7:08 PM
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Pi was a good movie. Not quite up on their Kabbalah or their Go, but it was a good shot worth taking. Once, when I was 19, my mother told me not to watch Pi, but I did. That's when the headaches started.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 7:14 PM
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I liked Sound of Music (plus TMBG, so clearly apo's theory is right), Gone with the Wind _and_ Shakes the Clown, because I am Enlightened. I also liked Eyes Wide Shut and Hudson Hawk, so it's possible that I might like two hours of blank celluloid.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 7:14 PM
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373: Eyes Wide Shut is not as bad as its supposed to be. The only problem with the film is tom cruise. If you ignore his presence, it's a decent movie. Leelee Sobieski's finest role, IMO.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 7:20 PM
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Eyes Wide Shut is not as bad as its supposed to be.

You mean it was supposed to be worse?


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 7:27 PM
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Eyes Wide Shut wasn't a very good movie, but it got one of the weirdest critical receptions of any movie I've ever seen. The ads for that movie (falsely) depicted it as an erotic thriller, and that's how it got reviewed - as a failed erotic thriller.

They were, admittedly, some pretty convincing trailers, but geez, you'd think a professional movie critic would actually critique the movie on its own terms.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 7:45 PM
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Shit, I liked The Whole Wide World, American Beauty, U Turn, What Dreams May Come, Harold and Maude, Naked, Titanic, Natural Born Killers, Pirates of the Caribbean II, Dead Poets Society, Pi

I hated AI and Meet Joe Black, though, so apparently I don't actually like every movie ever made. (But I hated both movies because of their ends. If each had different endings, I might have liked them.) Dungeons and Dragons and Independence Day were both bad through and through, though. I'd forgotten about The Avengers; really one of the worst movies I've ever seen.

I do agree with the Jesus that all James Bond movies suck. The best moment in the entire series is when Goldfinger says, "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die," just for the promise of a quick release from the suffering.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 7:53 PM
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128: Adam Sandler I can suffer through on a charted bus.
Pee Wee's Adventure(s) (I fear there exist more than one): truly insufferable.

_Doom Generation_ is more than a waste of time, it's painful.


Posted by: Econolicious | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 7:57 PM
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DS, if you actually saw Hostel, then carry on.

I really liked Cusack in Grosse Pointe Blank.


Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 7:58 PM
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Pee Wee's Adventure(s) (I fear there exist more than one): truly insufferable.

In this, I hope you are alone. Very alone. The first (PWBA) is pure genius.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 7:59 PM
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Funny Games. A blatant fuck you to the audience.
Rushmore was deeply annoying, although my girlfriend is making me watch it again.
Swingers I did not get.
The Producers (1968) where one discovers that Robin Williams stole his schtick from Dick Shawn, is a crime against humanity.
The Usual Suspects is responsible for the career of Kevin Spacey, and thus K-PAX. This fact doubles its badness.

The first minute of Barberella, however, is pure awesomeness.


Posted by: smudog | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:01 PM
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I thought that PWBA was a master piece, but Peewee completely gave me the creeps.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:04 PM
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380: But what about your big But?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:07 PM
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For all my love of Cusack, I do hate Say Anything. Rah and I are at cross purposes on this one, as he likes it. I think generally I might be happy in Walt's ingenious Blank Celluloid Theatre because I'll watch and like a whole lot of crap. I really enjoyed (sort of) Doom Generation. I'd watch it again. I also loved A.I. and my only criticism is that it should have ended 30 minutes earlier.

I was so high when I watched Independence Day that I cried at the president's inspirational speech. This was in a theatre. I would watch it again right now.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:09 PM
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Eyes Wide Shut was deep , man! Deep! If you had watched it stoned you would understand this.

Say Anything was nice. An entire generation of women can't be wrong.

When a thread like this goes on long enough, every movie ever made will be vehemently denounced by someone.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:10 PM
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Pee-Wee's nemesis gave me the creeps. Who does he have in his pocket that he can fuck around in swimming pools like that?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:10 PM
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Swingers I did not get.

Haven't you ever broken up with a girl? Or more to the point, had a girl break up with you?


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:12 PM
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Do I get any credit for hating Say Anything in real time, even though:

1. I liked John Cusack already
2. I was, gender aside, smack in the middle of the target audience
3. I saw it with my first GF, with whom I was hopelessly, idealistically smitten (and thus susceptible to romantic nonsense)
?

Also, I like Mel Brooks (and Gene Wilder, for that matter), but completely don't get The Producers. There are funny bits, yes, but few and far between.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:14 PM
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I am bewildered by the people who like Mel Brooks, but don't like The Producers. Then again, I like Mel Brooks but completely did not get Young Frankenstein.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:16 PM
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This thread is getting surreal. The Producers??! Y'all saw the "Springtime For Hitler" scene, right?

Or perhaps less surreal than a commentary on the subjectivity of art. I have a hard time with that concept. Artistic excellence seems so powerful that it should be objective, but there's so much disagreement. Any philosophers of aesthetics in the house? If so, please explain.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:17 PM
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385: OK, I'll take the bait: I vehemently denounce every movie ever made! They're all bad. They all have pacing problems.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:18 PM
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Haven't you ever broken up with a girl? Or more to the point, had a girl break up with you?
No. And if it involves being board to death by Vince Vaughn, it would seem best to avoid such a fate. I'll watch Rushmore and like it, goddamit.


Posted by: smudog | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:19 PM
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391: Have you seen Andy Warhol's Empire?


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:19 PM
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There are people who don't like The Producers? "Hitler was a better dancer than Churchill, he told funnier jokes than Churchill..."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:21 PM
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Worse problems than that, Otto. Very serious, insoluble problems. All of them.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:21 PM
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I denounce Blogger Squat. I'll denounce it again when I watch it.


Posted by: smudog | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:22 PM
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being board to death by Vince Vaughn

I don't think he kills anyone with a board in Swingers.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:23 PM
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393: Pacing problems! Un Chien Andalou? Pacing problems! Salò? Pacing problems!


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:24 PM
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You know, normally I feel bad for having missed so many movies. Now, not so much.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:26 PM
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Master of Disguise and Next. I'm willing to grade up for movies that are ambitious and fail, or are otherwise influential. But these are banal and horrible. Surely Hollywood knows how to make formulaic movies?


Posted by: ixnaythemetier | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:26 PM
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397: I further denounce homophones.


Posted by: smudog | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:26 PM
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This is going to turn into the equivalent of the regrettable food thread, isn't it?: ah, alas, how bad the caviar was when we last visited Prague. truly trashy. Let us never speak of it again.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:27 PM
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384:I am somewhere between my fifth and tenth watching of Doom Generation. Certain movies seem to get in cable circulation for years.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:29 PM
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Eraser with Arnold Schwarzenegger. It's like they said, "How can we make the most relentlessly generic action movie ever?" The cookie-cutter plot pieces are so old and tired it almost succeeds as an in-joke. Almost.


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:30 PM
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Also, I walked out of the theatre on Pee-Wee's Big Adventure, so I guess I have to put that one on the list, too.


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:31 PM
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Gladiator.

I've only read the first 300 comments, so it may have been mentioned, but Jesus Christ, I hated that movie. Fascist in so many ways.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:38 PM
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Let us never speak of it again.

You just need to go to the right places in Prague, Cala. The caviar tourist traps are notorious.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:38 PM
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I liked Gladiator, but I was 19 and generally have low standards for movies, assuming I don't walk out of the room. (Oddly, getting married means this happens more often. cf., the wiggles go to pokemon camp.)


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:40 PM
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Hell, time to go watch Paprika.

There may be many more bad than good, but there are enough good movies out there to watch one every night.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:41 PM
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#406: Fascist in so many ways.

But he was fighting for freedom! Except when he was fighting to conquer enemy tribes in the beginning!


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:43 PM
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Into the West, mentioned as good and seldom seen, with Gabriel Byrne set in Ireland, was a movie I really enjoyed seeing with my kids when they were small. Sense of magic.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:43 PM
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And that reminds me, TCM had Ikiru and Umberto D back to back the other night. Who the hell could put themself thru that?


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:44 PM
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That's funny if watching Ikiru is on a list of things to do before you die.


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:47 PM
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No, he was fighting cause he was fighting. The Senate was the hollowest fig leaf of a rationalisation. Gladiator is kind of like the run-up to the Iraq war, see.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:50 PM
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410: I liked Gladiator, because I pretty much give a pass to anything with good action, but that drove me nuts. You are not American, Maximus Decimus Meridius!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:55 PM
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Well, Maximus would have wanted revenge on Commodus for the deaths of his wife and son regardless of whatever the senate had to say.

I'm more perplexed by how the same movie can ask us to cheer for a guy who leads the superpower of its day in a battle to subjugate independent tribes, and then turn around and posit freedom as the coolest thing since sliced bread.


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:58 PM
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Ooh, speaking of Gabriel Byrne, don't see Cool World.


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 8:59 PM
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My senior multimedia project was on Gladiator. I guess it's not just a pass. I really will watch anything with swords.

There's really an interesting problem about American cheerleading and the fact that we think of ourselves as the little guy even when we are really the big fucking-ass empire, but this glass of wine says now is not the time.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:03 PM
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Apparenttly, there exists a dirtier version of The Producers. My parents saw it, loved it, and described it as such, but were too meek to give me details, because they're my parents.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:03 PM
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Subjugation of independent tribes in the name of freedom (and sliced bread) is the very function of superpowers. 'Cause otherwise your legions get bored, invade Rome and generally make a nuisance of themselves.


Posted by: smudog | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:11 PM
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I didn't even really like the fighting in Gladiator. My eX, who worked in special effects and had a ridiculously high tolerance for stupid movies with good monsters,* was merciless about the big arena fights.


*As in, he thought that the awesomeness of the vampire cadaver in Blade II justified the rest of the film, a point upon which we disagreed.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:12 PM
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But if Ciaran Hinds is Caesar it's really hot when they do invade.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:12 PM
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That's "big ass-fucking empire", Cala.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:13 PM
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The American empire is objectively anti-ass-fucking.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:15 PM
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#421: I didn't even really like the fighting in Gladiator.

Hear, hear! Aside from that two-sword beheading in one of the provincial arenas, the fights were pretty uninvolving. Plus, there was just too much talk, talk, talk. That movie needed a little less conversation, a little more gruesome, bloody action.


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:15 PM
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There's really an interesting problem about American cheerleading and the fact that we think of ourselves as the little guy even when we are really the big fucking-ass empire, but this glass of wine says now is not the time.

E.g, 300, where the Persians were the real Americans.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:15 PM
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This thread vexes me. I'm terribly vexed.


Posted by: Commodus | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:17 PM
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Are you not merciful!!!

426: Exactly. Best point of 300: when shivbunny turns to me and says, as lobster claw guy menaces Leonidas 'uh, this isn't realistic, is it, or based in history?' Other than that, lots of fit guys with great abs and too many slow-mo fighting sequences.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:20 PM
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I would rather watch lint gather between my toes than see 300.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:20 PM
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We thought it was a waste of a Netflix, but took heart in that because we had Netflix, we hadn't wasted more money on it.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:21 PM
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Re 300, I found this unreasonably amusing.

SPARTAAAAAAAA!!!!!


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:21 PM
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My sister is part of the "my answer to everything is now, 'NO THIS IS SPARTA!!!' facebook group.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:23 PM
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#428: There were indeed an entire race of lobster claw people in ancient times. However, they left no written histories because, you know, lobster claws.


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:24 PM
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Kept breaking the pencils and whatnot.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:25 PM
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Gladiator is kind of like the run-up to the Iraq war, see.

The standard plot to American action movies all through the 90s was: good guy gets horribly wronged in first 20 minutes, this then justifies him going apeshit and being a total irrational sadistic bastard over the next hour, then it all miraculously works out over the last 20 minutes.

The entire course of events after 9/11 was predictable from this. We were a nation with a mean streak just waiting for a self-righteous excuse to unleash it.

Of course, we're still waiting for the last 20 minutes.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:27 PM
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I can't believe I missed out on the ass-fucking empire.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:32 PM
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Astute enemies could forecast our wars by paying close attention to box office receipts.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 9:33 PM
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406: Gladiator is just standard crap action-film mythologizing. 300, now that's fascist, for serious.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 10:38 PM
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But, you know. Nearly naked Spartans!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 10:41 PM
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I had a post a few days ago arguing, almost word for word, the point in 435, but I scrapped it because I think it's not really an exclusively American trait; Hollywood action movies are huge overseas, and I think lots and lots of young males in particular really like to think about situations in which they get to be righteously sadistic.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 10:41 PM
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439: Oh, I hear you.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 10:45 PM
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ogged, do you like gladiator movies?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 10:46 PM
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someone had to ask. It wouldn't be right, otherwise.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 10:49 PM
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441: I've mentioned here before the experience of my high school humanities class, giggling their asses off because the damn Nazis didn't realize their manly art was , like, the gayest thing evah.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 10:53 PM
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Pi was a good movie.

It really wasn't.

405: GB, it's like you *want* me to think less of you.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 10:58 PM
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lots of young males in particular really like to think about situations in which they get to be righteously sadistic

What are you, a feminazi?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 10:59 PM
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Uh, it's a little late, but I just want to clarify that I don't think The Producers is awful or anything. It's even possible that, had I seen it without it being hyped to me first, I would've liked it. But after a friend raved about it, it just didn't live up to expectations.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 11:15 PM
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445.1: There's no way I'm up for a movie-fight right now, but have you no mysticism in you? That is all I will say.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 11:18 PM
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I lack the adjective necessary to describe how bad 300 was. I just spent five minutes trying to think of one. It's not exactly that the movie is the stupidest I've ever seen, because the stupidity of it is a result of deliberate effort, rather than accidental incompetence.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 11:23 PM
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Report:Wasn't in the mood for frenetic anime, so watched this indy called First Snow. Salesman/conman told convincingly by soothsayer he has only weeks to live. Starring Guy Pearce, written & directed by Mark Fergus of Children of Men. Good use of desolate New Mexico locations. I don't recommend movies, what I am gonna advise people to spend money on Bicycle Thief? But this one was not a waste of time.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 11:24 PM
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just browsing through the last few comments, jesus, I have nothing in common with you people.

Gladiator, 300, and Pi: All good! Forest Gump, too!

I think the reason I like these movies is because I'm smarter than you.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 11:30 PM
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the link in 431 really is unreasonably amusing


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 11:34 PM
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Isn't Manos: The Hands of Fate supposed to be the touchstone of terrible, irredeemable movies? I suppose one could argue that the Mystery Science Theater voiceover has pulled it out of the depths, but actually, I slept through most of of the MST version.

The only movie that has ever made me seriously debate walking out of the cinema was Josie and the Pussycats but young men disagree with me.


Posted by: Pineapple | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 11:39 PM
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Pi was good. Forrest Gump, the whole "ignorance as the highest virtue" thing is a bit creepy.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 2-08 11:48 PM
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I am interested to know where the rest of you fall on Pee-Wee's Big Adventure.

I walked out on it in the theater, but that was in 1985 and maybe I would like it more today. Certainly I've enjoyed much of Tim Burton's other work. B thinks less of me for not liking it (and presumably for other reasons, but that's not important now).

Did I just not "get" PWBA, or is it as insufferably twee, disjointed, and grating as I remember?


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 12:06 AM
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I've made my opinion known.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 12:17 AM
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Oops.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 12:17 AM
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Celebration
Tape
Woman in the Dunes


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 12:35 AM
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So DS is on my side. That means I'm right! Woo-hoo!


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 12:37 AM
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re: 458

Dogme movies don't count, surely? Being, almost without exception, rubbish.

Dancer in the Dark was one of my most uncomfortable cinema experiences, ever, despite the brilliance of a couple of the songs and the madness of some of the acting.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 12:51 AM
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Gaijin Biker, I find Pee-Wee Herman himself creepy and insufferable, and that's before his bout with scandal. But the rest of the movie around him is marvelous.


Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 12:56 AM
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Dogme movies don't count, surely? Being, almost without exception, rubbish.

The one Dogme movie I've seen - Mifune, I think, but it's not worth looking up - wasn't particularly good, but the effect of the lighting was really pretty beautiful.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 1:01 AM
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Oh, speaking of egregiously awful, I notice on the CT thread that someone mentioned Veerhoven's Black Book which really is terrible, exploitative, and nasty.

I was embarrassed watching it, in fact.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 1:17 AM
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Leave Dogme alone. Thems my peoples. And even at their worst (i.e. 'Dear Wendy') at least there's something going on that you can discuss afterwards, whether you agree with it or not. I'd say that makes them worth seeing, if not actually good.

The most *useless* movie I've ever seen, I think, was 'Mona Lisa Smile'. There are probably worse movies out there, but for sheer inessentiality, you can't beat a movie set in the 1950s that sets out to deride all the '50s values of its characters, one by one. It's not like it was based on a true story. It simply makes the point, over and over, that we are more sophistocated now than we were in Beaver-times, and aren't we glad that women can wear pants now, and choose who they marry? It was nothing more or less that a complete endorsement of the status quo, and that, to me, sums up 'don't see it before you die' better than generic awfulness.


Posted by: Rottin' in Denmark | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 1:48 AM
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From way upthread (and then I should really go to sleep): I think part of what put me off of Waking Life wasn't just the film being bad, but all the extras on the dvd release that implied the people involved were serious in thinking about how good it was: multiple commentaries, the things they said about how awesome each section was, etc.

Also, I haven't seen Four Rooms, but the imdb description of it makes me think of this Italian movie, which, if you can find it, is a fairly good interlocking New Year's Eve story that goes way over the top at times (I assume it's meant to be that way).


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 1:58 AM
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Meet Joe Black is the worst movie I've ever watched. I think I rented it because I used to have a thing for
Claire Forlani. But not even she could make the movie tolerable.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 2:02 AM
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What, no hatred for Warhol? Or is this only for big theatre features?


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 2:27 AM
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Whenever I see Claire Forlani now, I can't help but think of Abe Sapien from Hellboy. The eyes, the cheeks, the fey mannerisms. . . Can we do an 'inessential actors' thread after this?


Posted by: Rottin' in Denmark | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 2:32 AM
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IT'S BACK!!!!!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 3:59 PM
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!


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:00 PM
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"ignorance as the highest virtue" thing is a bit creepy.

I just don't understand reading this sweeping normative statement into either movie. Seriously, what?


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:17 PM
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I just don't understand reading this sweeping normative statement into either movie. Seriously, what?

I think this statement applies only to Gump, not Pi.

That's pretty much my reading of Gump, as well. I gained a lot of respect for my then-ex HS GF when I found out that she'd hated it - I would've guessed that she would be tempted by the sentimentality of it.

Another movie she hated - Sleeping with the Enemy - sounded, from her description, like it belongs on this list, but I don't know myself.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:31 PM
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Ok, MY did this thread today and I had to leave. Gladiator, Crash, McCabe & Mrs Miller. Jeez yeah, miss MaMM and watch Gigli

Somebody above asked for an aesthetic theory. Haven't had time to open my 2-volume Deleuze on film, so I'll wing it.

If a movie does very good box office or has good reviews or critical esteem or wins awards, you are a fool to call it a "bad movie." As big a fool as anyone else who doesn't wish to explore and confront pluralism. Yes, calling Transformers horrible when many millions liked it is not that far from homophobia or racism.

Like, instead try to see why you didn't like it and others did like it. Either side might have useful or harmful prejudices and biases.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:44 PM
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that's right, JRoth. Take your cineracistphobia out of my face and respect my diversity.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:47 PM
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Oscar winning Crash for instance obviously reaffirmed some LA/Hollywood/bourgeios values & prejudices, which weren't mine.

OTOH Cronenberg's Crash was just my cup of tea. Nihilist porn. I certainly can understand why it wouldn't be to everyone's taste.

My guess is the world will be better off if my tastes don't become universal.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:54 PM
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More seriously, I might weakly agree that Gump has a lesson that it's more important to be good than smart...but honestly I think the movie was about presenting an odd, touching, humorous, charming tale for it's own sake. The reaction of getting offended because you think the movie is telling you that you need to be like Forrest...I think you're only getting offended because of something you're reading into it. And I find it odd, because taken at face value, it really is a charming story.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:56 PM
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The Sleepers.

I find the pre-80s films listed here really surprising. Dr Zhivago???


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:21 PM
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478

The Sleepers.

I think at that time, some movies that were particularly long, expensive to make, based on epic works of literature, etc. -- basically, movies with intermissions -- were given special treatment as "traveling road shows", and extra-high admission was charged.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:23 PM
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Peewee Herman was extremely effective in giving me the creeps. There was some kind of gender deconstruction shit going on which I hated. Normally stuff that's totally over the top doesn't bother me a lot, but he hit the uncanny valley. I'd give him a gold medal for something or another but I never want to watch him again.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:29 PM
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I have confused the concept of "traveling road show", which described just about every movie, with the concept of the "prestige picture", which actually meant something back then.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:31 PM
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476: I hesitate to say this, because I hate this criticism (in music, at least), but:

Gump takes itself too seriously. If it were more picaresque; if Gump himself was occasionally shown to be foolish, and not merely The Fool; if the Love Interest were less idealized*; then, I might buy your take on it. But it so wanted to the The Fable For Our Times. And it was too fucked up to support that weight (Ooh! Is that a Magical Negro I spy?! Mayhaps I can buy a hat to memorialize his Noble Sacrifice).

* Yeah, she was actually not virginal, IIRC, but still


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:32 PM
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McCabe & Mrs Miller.

belongs on a list of the best 20th century American movies, not the worst.

If a movie does very good box office or has good reviews or critical esteem or wins awards, you are a fool to call it a "bad movie." As big a fool as anyone else who doesn't wish to explore and confront pluralism.

But I don't, not really. A lot of other people suck.

A good thread would be: really excellent movies you've never heard of. That would generate some useful Netflix action.



Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:32 PM
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474 is funny, but I have no idea what it means.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:32 PM
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I walked out of Dancer in the Dark. I could tell there would be a lot of pointless emotional manipulation in my near future if I stayed.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:33 PM
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OK, now I get it. I hadn't read 473 first.

I actually agree with 473, for the most part.

My strongest objection revolves around the idea that 50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong. On the one hand, yes they can - they voted for torture and war and fascism in 2004. On the other, no they can't - they're looking for something, and they'll take base materials if that's the closest to satisfying their needs of the moment.

IOW, I don't think it's possible for a movie to get millions (tens of millions? I don't know how Hollywood scales) of viewers without having some kind of merit*.

* Sequels and the like don't count - you can get 10 million people to come see anything, if they're predisposed to it*. But if 10 million people turn out for some random rom-com, it must have had something that made people tell their friends, "Yes, go see this."

** This may, in fact, explain 2004. Bush: The Sequel.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:39 PM
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On the one hand, yes they can [be wrong] - they voted for torture and war and fascism in 2004.

I become more Rortyish every day. Living in multiple world I always kinda was.

"Right" and "Wrong" don't apply, unless ironically useful for rhetorical purposes. Bush voters had some different interests and values than my own. Priors can't be argued, blah blah blah pragmatism.
The real thing, tho, not a bastard pragmatism of efficient means for universal values.

Sequels and the like don't count

As someone keenly aware of movieging as a social activity, which is why so many of you have seen terrible movies while I am a cinephile hermit, sequels do count.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:57 PM
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Seriously, what?

Like, how Forrest Gump is a paragon of all-American virtue -- football star, war hero, ping-pong champion et cetera -- precisely because he's stupid and doesn't question anything. (Compare and contrast the Dissipated Seventies Intellectual who ruins his Love Interest's life.) That's what.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:20 PM
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465.1 is puzzling. Would you expect all those people to have put so much work into the film and not think they were doing something good?


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:24 PM
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There's a difference between commenting on how a film was made and being proud of it and talking about how fucking awesomely deep and profound every single conversation was, man. I've listened to a lot of commentary tracks; Waking Life's ones are qualitatively different.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 2:18 AM
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Qualitatively is probably the wrong word, but whatever. I just couldn't believe they were serious about every single moment in the film; anyway, it's experimental, so I don't see why it would have been odd had someone disagreed with an idea or criticized something about one of the scenes.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 2:28 AM
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