Re: Did you miss us?

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I commented at your blog, dummy.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:01 PM
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Endlessly clicking refresh.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:02 PM
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I spent it debating whether to click that link you emailed me, apo.

Still haven't clicked it.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:02 PM
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Seeing how IE6 seizes up when it can't resolve the DNS.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:04 PM
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Wondering if I had been banned.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:08 PM
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I was wondering how to respond to Ogged's rendition. Should I start a defense fund for him, or should I chnage my name and sneak into Canada?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:09 PM
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||

Folks, we're having a gossip harmonic convergence and Unfogged is down.

1. Ted Kennedy had brain surgery a couple of days ago.
2. Eleanor Mondale returned to work in Minneapolis today after brain surgery.
3. Bill Clinton was just rumored to have been involved with Mondale.
4. Obama's making his victory speech in Minnesota tonight. Presumably Eleanor will be there, probably covering it.

This is just a perfect storm.

|>


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:11 PM
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I was thinking along Emerson's lines. In fact, I saw a headline that began "Iranian Man Arrested" and thought about ogged, until I saw that he had been arrested for petitioning for gender equality.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:12 PM
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Still haven't clicked it.

Remember, it came from Ogged first, so it's not as bad as it could be.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:13 PM
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I also saw a Medal of Honor winner today. That's a rarity.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:15 PM
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until I saw that he had been arrested for petitioning for gender equality

It could have been for men's rights, you sexist.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:15 PM
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What?! Bill Clinton involved with Walter Mondale and Eleanor Roosevelt?


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:16 PM
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Bill Clinton was just rumored to have been involved with Mondale.

I obviously have been reading the wrong material because this really threw me, as in "Bill & Walter's excellent adventure". Is Walter dead? Wouldn't his widow be older than Bill?


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:19 PM
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Closed the deal on my new job. Clearly, unfogged should disappear from the net more often.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:20 PM
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MC pwnd or we share a confusion.

I seem to remember a daughter.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:21 PM
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Closed the deal on my new job

Congrats! Also to Mrs. Gonerill, surely. Don't let your kids play with Apo's middle child, is my advice to you.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:23 PM
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Eleanor Mondale.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:25 PM
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Congrats to the Gonerills!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:25 PM
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I spend the day in Natick, at the Army Lab, hoping to wangle a tour of the Climatic Chambers. (They have two -- one tropical, the other can go down to -60 F). Didn't get the offer, but we were offered a chance to tour the shade/color testing lab, which I had to decline on account of the schedule.

Now I'm just sitting in Logan, wondering whether my flight will board before my battery runs out.


Posted by: NĂ¡pi | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:26 PM
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Closed the deal on my new job.

Wow. Good for you. Congratulations to both G and Ms. G.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:26 PM
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So when is Obama planning to speak tonight?


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:26 PM
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I thought you all went off the air so you could avoid congratulating Hillary for her grace, generosity, and willingness to put the good of the party before her own ambitions.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:27 PM
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Eleanor Mondale has brain cancer? That fucking sucks.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:27 PM
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16 etc: Thanks! Unsurprisingly, Mrs Gonerill getting recruited was the impetus behind things in the first place, she being one of those women, rare on the Veldt, whose brain remains at an abnormally low -- indeed almost masculine -- temperature when thinking about Hard Questions.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:30 PM
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Congrats, Gonerill.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:30 PM
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MC pwnd or we share a confusion.

Or both.

Congratulations, Gonerill! My advice to you is to pay no heed to Ogged's child care advice. Or at least, not until he finally decides to make his mother happy.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:30 PM
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Yay, Gonerills.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:33 PM
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I'm disappointed to find that I can hear the airport CNN from this far away from the tv screen.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:33 PM
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Eleanor Mondale seems to have recovered.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:34 PM
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Wikipedia says she's back in treatment.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:35 PM
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I'm going to take this opportunity to congratulate the Gonerills, and to note that I had a dream the other night featuring a strong dislike of Gonerill. What's odd is that I don't have any particular sense of Gonerill as a person (no offense). I woke up, and was just baffled. What are you doing, brain?

I mean, other than telling me to stay the fuck away from Unfogged for awhile.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:35 PM
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So what did you spend your day doing today?

I've been coloring this really awesome tortoise I drew and scanned a while back. The coloring's taking forever because the tortoise, being a tortoise, is all wrinkly and stuff.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:35 PM
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As my email trickles in, now that the server is back up, it amuses me how many people wrote to ask if they'd been banned. It's either an easy conceit, or the level of insecurity is at an admirably high level here.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:36 PM
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17: Is that pic for reals? Hubba.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:36 PM
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I spent the day lurking at apo's. Among other things.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:37 PM
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She says she's 80% normal. She'll still be getting chemo.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:38 PM
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Is that pic for reals?

Yes, she's a hottie, although age and cancer have her looking more like her dad lately.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:38 PM
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i too thought that i'm banned, couldn't recall for what, then i saw JE's comment on the Weblog asking what AK did to Unfogged and that it's down
so i worked peacefully all morning and after lunch up to now


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:38 PM
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Congratulations to the entire Goneril family, and best of luck to their new State in dealing with them as well.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:39 PM
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Click my link. She still looks great. If her dad has ever looked half as good, he might have been elected President.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:39 PM
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Ogged must have been far, far more attracted to Walter than I ever was.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:40 PM
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Congrats, soon-to-be-fellow-townfolk G. and Mrs. G!


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:41 PM
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it amuses me how many people wrote to ask if they'd been banned. It's either an easy conceit, or the level of insecurity is at an admirably high level here.

Or you have developed a reputation, even among Unfogged fans, for being something of a dick. Just to build out the universe of possibles. I'm sure it's the insecurity one, though.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:48 PM
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One of Mondale's daughters was hosting an autoshow broadcast on Speed a year or so ago—I thought it was her.

Don't you think the Gonerils just as likely to hang with Dale Jr. and his crowd?


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:54 PM
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I read Waste all day. I'm almost through an entry.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 4:57 PM
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I put an Unfogged comment up at CT, off-topic, and now Brighouse is for some reason peeved. A foreign blog culture.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:01 PM
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Just to build out the universe of possibles.

Also that people don't understand how hard it would be to ban someone so that they really never could come around again. (Ban from commenting under their known pseud, OK yeah that's pretty easy. Anything more is pretty tough.)


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:02 PM
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45 is funny.

I spent my day reading course evaluations, my least favorite activity! Of course, it doesn't take all day to read evals, but if one scrutinizes them with a talmudic intensity, it can!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:03 PM
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I just noticed the hovertext. Is that Labs's genius I see?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:09 PM
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No.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:10 PM
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Oud, they all say that you're awesome. As you may have noticed during the semester, many of them are poor at expressing themselves verbally.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:11 PM
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I found that my total procrastination level did not decline, but my pleasure in it did.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:11 PM
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Ban from commenting under their known pseud, OK yeah that's pretty easy. Anything more is pretty tough.)

Time to go troll McManly's blog! Hmmm, what pseud shall I use?


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:13 PM
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I think that Eleanor (recent pics) looks very like a local hottie, but I'm not sure which one.

I will forego asking my wife if she can identify.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:13 PM
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The Sleepers.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:15 PM
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Cooking question: I like batter-fried cod, but have found it a bit fishy with other preps. Is it purely a freshness issue*, or does, say, broiling almost always lead to fishiness. I've got an awesome-looking prosciutto-wrapped cod recipe here, but am cautious.

If not cod, then what? Other thick, white filets tend to be a lot spendier, or even fishier.

* I know that's what they say about all fish, but some just tend towards more fishiness - let's be honest


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:16 PM
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Oh, and:

I spent all day reading about the Penguins' stunning victory last night/this morning.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:17 PM
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I find the pre-80s movies here really surprising. Dr Zhivago???


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:18 PM
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47:Is that so? I think I have had the same IP for well, since TW bought comcast, with very minor variations when I tweak for torrent maximization.
And I thought you could just block an IP. I suppose a determined troll could get new IP's but I am not determined.

In order to keep ogged's option's viable, this afternoon I read a couple posts on Lieberman-Warner. Then I started wondering about qui bono, that urbanites would benefit from a carbon tax/GW program while suburbanites/exurbs/rurals would lose without compensation. This of course led me to the current civil war in the Democratic Party, and the victory party the urbanites will have tonight.
Idea being that since it is too hard to eat the rich, we will eat each other. Or more accurately, to the victors go the cannibal spoils.

After a while, I thought of revisiting that Populist/Progressive thing around the turn of the century. The Glotious Revolution may have some pertinance, but otherwise I can't map the urban/rural conflict onto the Enlightenment. Yet.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:18 PM
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wrong thread.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:18 PM
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I think at that time, some movies that were particularly long, expensive to make, based on epic works of literature, etc. -- basically, movies with intermissions -- were given special treatment as "traveling road shows", and extra-high admission was charged.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:19 PM
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56: The revelation is that batter-frying makes everything taste maximum awesome.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:19 PM
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Glorious Revolution, of course


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:19 PM
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It's a damn shame that my post about prosody has gotten so few comments.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:20 PM
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In order to keep ogged's option's viable, this afternoon I read a couple posts on Lieberman-Warner. Then I started wondering about qui bono, that urbanites would benefit from a carbon tax/GW program while suburbanites/exurbs/rurals would lose without compensation. This of course led me to the current civil war in the Democratic Party, and the victory party the urbanites will have tonight.
Idea being that since it is too hard to eat the rich, we will eat each other. Or more accurately, to the victors go the cannibal spoils.

It makes sense that it could be Urbanites and the Earth/Humanity versus Ruralites and the forces that would destroy the Earth and create mass chaos. Though who would have thought that a hundred years ago?

It's turned out that the status quo right now is not a force that hopes to lead to a maintaining of our traditions over the coming generations. No, because the status quo consists of "economic growth", it is a force that hopes for eventually exhausting the resources that enable us to live.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:22 PM
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It's a damn shame that my post about prosody has gotten so few comments.

But Ben, it's so obviously only because the server went down. That combined with the difficulty of doing hockey play-by-play in dactylic hexameter (surely the natural form).


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:25 PM
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56: You really don't have to tell a Pittsburgher that. We (OK, I) actually give extra credit to restaurants that cornbread-fry their fish b/c it's so rare around here.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:26 PM
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Is hockey epic, heroic, or didactic?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:26 PM
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Bérubé would know, if only he commented here.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:27 PM
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61:Uhh, movie thread? I should google this, but I'll work off memory. Real memory from my youth, in part.

"Big" Movies originally were distributed in a heirarichal(?) system, based in part on a limited number of Cinemascope screens. Open in NY at $100, next week 5-10 big cities at $50, then 25 screens at $25, and so on. I think this in part generated the money for print, made marketing simpler buily word-of-mouth positional good due to scarcity, etc.

Steven Spielberg, in a minor revolution, broke that mold with a 3000 theatre opening weekend and National campaign for Jaws, and eventually the opening weekend became everything.

I am sure there is a Wiki article.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:30 PM
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65:I am not here arguing if re-urbanization etc is a good thing. I am really arguing about who is going to pay for the transition.

That we had this fight in the Democratic Party tells me it ain't gonna be the plutocrats who pay.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:33 PM
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Plutocrats are not part of the electorate.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:36 PM
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Hockey is rather Iliadic, no? Or books 7-12 of the Aeneid. Did someone murder someone at the end of the game, even though his dad told him to parcere subiectis (oh, but there is that debellare superbos part, too)?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:38 PM
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JRoth, I cant believe you stayed up for that whole game. Heroics.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:38 PM
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Plutocrats are not part of the electorate.

What do you mean? Ain't we got a democracy?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:38 PM
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I stayed up. Keegan made it to the end of the 2nd OT, then missed the end.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:39 PM
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Today's News?

GM, believing oil is going to stay high or gas get taxed, is going to close 4 truck plants and try to sell off the Hummer line. Apparently Arlington Texas will be spared. Those are thousands of jobs lost, lives damaged, disrupted, if the worker is 50 maybe destroyed.

But lets us celebrate. One step closer to a carbon free economy. And GM stock rose on the news.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:41 PM
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I was in a deposition all day. It is amazing how hard it is to get clients to simply give short, truthful answers to questions they understand. My witness did well today, but not without a lot of prep and one or two talking-to's today.


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:42 PM
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78. My lawyer friend tells the tale of one Chatty Kathy His client) that turned his back on counsel during direct to further lecture to the judge, against counsel's strict instructions. Counsel was not amused.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:47 PM
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How do parents stay up for triple OT? My mind reels.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:48 PM
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77: The article I saw mentioned these cuts in those model lines have been expected for a long time. Actually throughout the SUV boom of the last ten years analysts and industry observers have been saying that building those things instead of developing more attractive and efficient cars would lead to a day of reckoning. I think management didn't think they could compete on economy cars anyway, so they might as well build what they could sell in the short run.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:49 PM
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Jesus, Bob. GM's been over-invested in Hummers for years. It's about time. people are buying different kinds of cars, and people are working in the plants that make those cars.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:55 PM
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I did pretty much what I normally do. Run errands, go to coffeeshop, work on diss, surf Internet, gossip with philosophy friends.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:55 PM
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84

So where's the "that bitch finally quit" thread?


Posted by: Melvin | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:58 PM
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SUVs were very profitable for the auto companies, because they did not have to do an extensive retooling to bring out a whole new line. Just slam a new cabin on a truck bed, and add 15 cupholders. Much sexier than minivans, and with oil @ $10 per barrel, who gave a shit. Did they invest those profits in R&D of fuel efficiency, or hybrids? What do you think?


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 5:58 PM
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79: Not long ago I watched a client--not mine, thank God--get up from the witness stand in the middle of an administrative hearing to pass her lawyer a note telling him what to ask her.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:01 PM
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82:I have always admired your compassion, John, your sympathy for the losers of market dynamics.

"Other people have jobs" will be a comfort to those laid off, I'm sure. "Coming for a long time" will pay for their retirements.

Jees, Bob. I'm outahere.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:01 PM
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68: Is hockey epic, heroic, or didactic?.

Last night was certainly the first two and possibly the third. The Pens were so absolutely overwhelmed in the 3rd period and 1st OT that 5 minutes into OT my son suggested that they pull the goaltender and try for a repeat of Talbot's goal since it sure did not look like they could hold up for long against the onslaught. Fleury was tremendous.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:02 PM
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88: And he's what, 23?


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:05 PM
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What do you think?

I think we had better the hell not try to bail them out.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:06 PM
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Free Hummers for everyone!


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:15 PM
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Bob, you are completely full of shit. Any moron can make a cheap point about anything by pointing to the poor laid off workers.

The fucking prison guards in California probably do it. Without the three strikes laws and the mandatory minimums, a lot of those people will be out in the street! My own goddamn union in Oregon had prison guards in it, and we had to fight to keep them from pressuring us into supporting a three strikes law.

You can't decide every issue on the basis of jobs. If you're mad at what I said, just imagine me as two or three times as mad at your lame BS.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:18 PM
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90. I do believe that ship has sailed. While one can still masturbate to images of Lee Iacocca, there will not be a replay of Chrysler. The jobs are already gone.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:18 PM
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87: Bob, do you know how many people Enron was employing in 2002? 22,000. Arthur Andersen had 85,000 employees, the vast majority of whom were actually helping investors worldwide rather than hoodwinking them. Layoffs happen everyday in thousands of companies, and you know it. What's so special about these particular workers as opposed to the other dozens of thousands who have left or changed jobs since the new year?

Trying to prevent companies from shedding jobs would be trying to freeze time, typically for the worse. These workers need to be taken care of through health care, unemployment benefits, and new jobs, not through sustaining production that not only is unwanted, but actually hurts the environment.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:19 PM
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85:Did they invest those profits in R&D of fuel efficiency, or hybrids? What do you think?

This Article
says they will beat Toyota to the market with an rechargeable electric in 2010, so they have done some R & D.

You know the discourse seems so limited, so narrow. Either inflation or recession. Either SUV's or Electrics, can't retool, some workers lose, them's the breaks.

Nationalize the fuckers, tax the rich out of existence to get the money for retooling, and let the Janestown workers make electrics and subcompacts. Or tax the rich to provide retraining and extended unemployment. Or to pay for rural transit. Or reurbanization. Or just tax the fucking rich, tax em, tax em until they are no more.

But Democrats shouldn't be celebrating layoffs. Or maybe that is the new Democratic Party, the new coalition.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:22 PM
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Did teh Boston meetup thing get cancelled? Megan hasn't returned the message that I left on her cell phone. I was on my way to Harvard Square and got off to go home, since I called Blume too to see whether she was there w/ Sifu.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:24 PM
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Do you hear a fucking celebration?

(ok, that faint cheering is the Obama party next door, but don't go over there and try to yell at them, Debbie Downer)


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:24 PM
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Capital is more mobile than labor, Bob. Taxing the rich excessively just moves money offshore. I realize excessively is doing a lot of work here, but "tax em until they are no more" set the table.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:27 PM
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94:Do people read me? Have I ever said we need to subsidize Hummer and Silverado manufacture?

Workers first, last, and always. The last dime of the last executive, stockholder, bondholder, creditor at Enron should have gone to the employees.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:29 PM
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Fuck you, Bob. Nobody is celebrating layoffs. Some of us are hoping that American energy policy might start making a little sense in the next for ten years.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:29 PM
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SUVs might not be selling, but they didn't pop up out of nowhere. Light trucks didn't have to adhere to the same standards, so poof, away with the station wagons (classed as cars) and all of a sudden, the SUV is the great family vehicle. Something's going to have to fill that niche; hopefully, the cars will be made here.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:30 PM
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98:An interesting question, capital flight and its consequences. I think about it sometimes. WTF is Finance, anyway?

Do we need int'l capital for a healthy economy?


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:34 PM
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I had breakfast with Napi this morning.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:34 PM
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My wife would dearly love to replace our '97 Taurus Wagon with another affordable American station wagon, but they haven't been making them for years, and she'd hate to by even a cross, let alone a truck-based.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:34 PM
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buy


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:35 PM
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100:Fuck you, John. I am reading a lot of carbon-tax posts that don't discuss much consideration for the victims. Looks like celebration to me.

Shall I link to Yglesias or Klein?


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:36 PM
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Yeah. My parents are in the same boat. They couldn't really afford a new SUV, but they had four kids, so they poured money into a '92 Sable wagon, an '88 Buick wagon, an '85 Oldsmobile wagon that we got from the church, among others. (Not so bad when you consider that there were at least four drivers and since the cars were old, one was almost always in the shop.) I think now they're running with a couple early 90s Town Cars.

I really hate cars and view them as money pumps.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:38 PM
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102. Short answer, yes. And although the finance guys makes obscene amounts of money, win or lose, I find it hard to draw and line and say how much is too much. In the end, even the smart guys give alot of it back.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:40 PM
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If there are ever prison guards laid off, Bob, I'll try to contact you so you can leap to their defense. You're picking a stupid fight just for the sake of fighting.

I'm in favor of any number of ways to protect labor, improve labor's status, and make this country more egalitarian, but I'm not willing to listen to your weepy auto-industry crankout bullshit.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:40 PM
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one can still masturbate to images of Lee Iacocca

Bring on the rich Corinthian leather.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:41 PM
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101: The current round of "crossovers" basically are station wagons. Dump the AWD and cut the horsepower in half and you'd have a perfectly serviceable vehicle that burned a lot less fuel.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:46 PM
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The current round of "crossovers" basically are station wagons.

Or, Subaru, who never stopped making wagons. Our Outback isn't as efficient as our Corolla, but it's loads better than an SUV.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:52 PM
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109:Well, John if you had been able to follow my comments down the thread, you would have seen there I started with a couple theses, and moved to a specific example.

1) That the PO/GW initiatives, as planned, will benefit urbanites at the expense of rurals.

2) That perhaps not coincidentally, that corresponds, if not on the issue at least on the demographics, to the internecine split within the democratic party.

3) That this lifeboat attitude seems stupid and Un-Democratic when there are rich Republicans out there. But since GW, for instance has been framed as urban bike-riders vs suburban SUV-drivers, those Rich Republicans have gotten a pass, and there is not a large enough coalition to be formed, for instance, to really raise taxes to a level that will change things or help people.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:57 PM
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As a youngster I was at a march marking one of the early anniversaries of the Three Mile Island incident. The march was well-attended, and included a significant contingent from the United Mine Workers, who felt that not enough coal was being burned.

This was my on of my first exposures to the inherent conflicts in liberalism.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:59 PM
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Fine, Bob, but you move very quickly to making outrageous accusations against people. Do you expect them not to respond in kind?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:59 PM
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My wife would dearly love to replace our '97 Taurus Wagon with another affordable American station wagon

Subarus wagons, btw, are made in Indiana.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 6:59 PM
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My wife would dearly love to replace our '97 Taurus Wagon with another affordable American station wagon, but they haven't been making them for years, and she'd hate to by even a cross, let alone a truck-based.

What about the HHR? With the small motor it supposedly gets more than 30mpg...


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:00 PM
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The real problem, Bob, is that there are just as many if not more "rich" Democrats as rich Republicans. No wonder tax rates aren't where you would like to see them.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:00 PM
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Do you expect them not to respond in kind?

Of course he does.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:01 PM
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Our Outback isn't as efficient as our Corolla

A Corolla that's not more than 10 years old, probably, yes?

I just had an offer to have a 1990 Corolla with 84,000 miles for 200 bucks, needs tires. A friend of a friend's mother's car. Oh, right. Would I swap my 2000 Chevy S10 pickup (which I never wanted) for that? I can buy the Corolla, try it out, sell it for $1000, it is suggested to me. Um. I don't know the comparative mileage of these vehicles, haven't checked the Chevy's mileage for a while.

It's a stupid idea, isn't it?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:05 PM
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A Corolla that's not more than 10 years old, probably, yes?

Our Corolla is a '96, still gets great mileage. If it's running properly, that '90 should get far and away better mileage than your S10.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:10 PM
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It is surprising to me that there is not sufficient demand for, for example, stationwagons, that there are not more choices. I have run into an even more vexing (for me, at least) problem this year. We have decided to replace our old minivan. I wanted to get a hybrid vehicle. The problem is that there is almost nothing in which you can comfortably fit a famly of five (with three kids that are getting pretty big, including a 14-year old that is basically grown-up size). Yes, I know that a truly committed person would squeeze everyone into a Prius. But given the added cost of the divorce that would ensue, it did not seem like a cost-effective move. So, we ended up ordering a Ford Escape SUV hybrid. Now it is small and very fuel efficient (they say, I have been waiting for delivery for four months and likely have more time yet to wait). But it is ugly, has only so-so interior finish and is, well, an SUV. Why is it no one is making a hybrid minivan? It seems like an obvious move.


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:11 PM
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Further to 121, that S10 is probably getting around 20 mpg depending on the engine, and a 90's Corolla will get around 30 mpg, and even higher on highway driving.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:15 PM
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121: Wow. My roommate's been saying that the seller just wants to get rid of the Corolla ASAP on behalf of his ma, hence the $200 (to a friend), and it's not a bad idea to just do it, resell it if need be. I just thought that my ditching the S10 for a vehicle 10 years older wasn't very smart.

Thanks for the input.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:16 PM
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122: Isn't the Escape pretty darn small inside? The Prius might actually have more room for the family. Which is not to say you should buy one. But what's the Escape's gas mileage, even with the hybrid? Mightn't a five-passenger sedan be roomier and at least as efficient?


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:17 PM
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TLL, that's a talking point. The richest sector is pretty definitely Republican. Furthermore, Bob is not a loyal Democrat (nor am I).


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:17 PM
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123: Further! Yeah, I'm going to check the S10's mileage next time I refill it. I've owned two Corollas in the past, and rather like them.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:19 PM
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Isn't the Escape pretty darn small inside?

It's bigger than the Prius, Camry, Altima etc. But no, it's not big. According to Ford's website, the mileage is 34 mpg city/30 mpg highway.


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:23 PM
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parsimon - assuming typical mileage, an 8 yr old S10 is getting long in the tooth - the 18 yr old Corolla, if the mileage is light, is probably comparable in expected remaining longevity. IOW, I would expect the S10 to get real expensive around 150k, and the Corolla to get similarly expensive around 250k (although a 1990 Corolla is more rust-prone than newer models, depending on its winter history).

It's not just a US vs. Japan deal; US trucks have lagged significantly behind US cars in quality, let alone Japanese cars.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:24 PM
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I'm surprised the Escape is bigger than the Camry.

But once you get above the bigger compacts (like the Altima or G6, for instance), the mileage turns shitty - even the Japanese give Americans the powerful highway cruisers we want, not the efficient machines we need (see the now-cancelled Accord hybrid).


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:26 PM
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I applied for three jobs, talked to my realtor, and we're going to make an offer on a house tomorrow.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:28 PM
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Remember, parsimon, that basically any car that will crank is worth $500. $200 for a Toyota - built to take serious abuse, as I understand it - is a steal. Still, $200 isn't exactly lunch money.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:29 PM
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115:"Outrageous accusations?"

I am still waiting for the retraining promised to go with NAFTA. Globalization, in fact but not as promised, did benefit the Obamatypes young creatives and urban service workers at the expense of manufacturing.

How many here fear for their jobs with cap-and-trade?


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:29 PM
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||

I'm working out cost-of-living for a possible new job, where I'd likely need to buy a car for the first time in my life. I find the Smart car sexy as hell. Can anyone comment on any drawbacks, besides highway performance and storage space?

|>


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:29 PM
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Globalization, in fact but not as promised, did benefit the Obamatypes young creatives and urban service workers at the expense of manufacturing.

No it didn't, it benefited the rich and the "economy" at the expense of everyone.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:30 PM
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The problem is that there is almost nothing in which you can comfortably fit a famly of five (with three kids that are getting pretty big, including a 14-year old that is basically grown-up size).

God's own truth, that. An even tighter fit is my 11-year-old having to squeeze between the other two kids still in childseats in the back seat of our Jetta wagon.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:31 PM
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I find the Smart car sexy as hell. Can anyone comment on any drawbacks, besides highway performance and storage space?

Having the dealership as your only repair option can be a real pain in the ass.

I tend to stick with Toyotas as their longevity is fantastic, and even a reasonable sized 4 door like the Corollas are getting a 29/35 mpg rating.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:34 PM
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our Jetta wagon.

Woof. Our Jetta lasted 3 months and 3 days after the arrival of baby #1 - when the infant seat didn't really fit, it seemed implausible that the car would survive any actually-sized human in the back.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:34 PM
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I'm surprised the Escape is bigger than the Camry.

Looking at specifications on their websites, they do look pretty much the same (the Escape has better headroom and the Camry a bit more legroom in the back). The Camry felt smaller (apparently feel can be deceiving--maybe it was the headroom--and I admit to not having got in the back seat, that being kid territory)). If Ford keeps me hanging much longer, maybe I should see if I can get my deposit back and go look at a Camry again.


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:35 PM
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Apparently the Smart gets no better mileage than much more practical (and sexy, like the Mini) cars, and the damn thing costs as much. I've been a big fan, but it appears to be a boondoggle (no excuse for such a little tin can not getting 34/42 MPH).


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:36 PM
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126. Oligarchy is almost impossible to root out. No one but the rich have the time or inclination to go into politics. I'm sure you're aware of the Congresswoman whose house is being foreclosed http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=05&year=2008&base_name=congresswoman_forcelosed_upon


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:36 PM
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I agree with 140, though of course Smart cars are adorable. Honda Civic hybrid.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:39 PM
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I forgot to say that I also voted today.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:39 PM
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129, 132: Thanks. Long in the tooth, the S10, eh? (I don't put much mileage on it, actually.) Obviously I need to see this Corolla, and yes, $200 is a steal. Okay. I dread trying to sell the S10, of course, might have to have some things done to it first. But okay, I'll look into all this. Thanks again, all.

Remember, parsimon, that basically any car that will crank is worth $500.

Hey! (This is funny.) I'll have you know my '73 VW bus cranked just fine, and though it had weeds growing through the floorboards, I did get $200 for it last summer.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:43 PM
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136. It will be interesting to see which wins, child restraint systems or smaller cars. Or we could go to the one child policy. Scientific experiments for the rest of you lot.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:46 PM
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145: I bet it isn't going to be an option. Put in rear-facing seats in back of stationwagons, like there used to be--it's safer to ride facing backwards anyway.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:47 PM
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I'll have you know my '73 VW bus cranked just fine, and though it had weeds growing through the floorboards, I did get $200 for it last summer.

That so completely rules. My mother once traded in a Ford Grenada that had a small sapling growing in the rear floorboard.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:48 PM
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Or we could go to the one child policy.

Or two!

Seriously, stopping at two was an easy decision for us when we considered the increase in, well, everything that a third kid would entail. Another bedroom needed, the kids no longer fit in the back seat of a compact car, etc. Gah.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:51 PM
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No one but the rich have the time or inclination to go into politics. I'm sure you're aware of the Congresswoman whose house is being foreclosed.

You mean the 3-bedroom third house that she bought to live in by herself with a mortgage that took 33% of her gross income (on top of whatever the other two mortgages were...)


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:53 PM
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Congrats to the Gonerills.

It will be interesting to see which wins, child restraint systems or smaller cars.

Damn child seats take up a lot of room. Our Prius (first generation, smaller than the current model) would be just fine for five people, but you have to have a super-small ass to fit between two child seats. And you have to use them for like eight years.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:55 PM
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you have to use them for like eight years

Not if your car has built in child restraints, i.e., a seat bottom that folds down out of the back seat to elevate kids above toddler size to the appropriate height. Which isn't that hard to build in.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 7:56 PM
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151: You'd think they could make that part of a standard option package for sedans. Then again, maybe some do, I don't know.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 8:00 PM
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And you have to use them for like eight years.

wtf? I have no memory of being in a child seat at any point, indicating that I was taken out of them before I started remembering things. And I don't remember my sister (born in 1987) being in one past age three.

is this some California law?


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 8:05 PM
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is this some California law?

Even in red state Utah, the law is a child or booster seat until age eight, with an exception for kids who are 57'' or taller.

Seems bizarrely old to me as well.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 8:10 PM
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That's apparently a newer change, peter. I guess someone needed to sell booster seats.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 8:16 PM
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Can anyone comment on any drawbacks, besides highway performance and storage space?

It apparently handles like a potato chip thrown into a hurricane, and doesn't get good enough gas mileage to justify it.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 8:18 PM
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Can anyone comment on any drawbacks, besides highway performance and storage space?

The automatic gearbox in the U.S. model is supposed to be a disaster.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 8:20 PM
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I thought the law was weight based, not age-based. At least, when PK went over 60 lbs, I stopped using the seat IN DEFIANCE OF THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF PEDIATRICIANS, who recommend you use car seats up to 80 lbs.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 8:20 PM
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That's it. I'm calling the AAP. The overgrown hair and foreskin was one thing, but this callous disregard for the life of a fragile child - infant, really - is too much for me to take.

We realized probably 6 months late that Iris was ready to move from the baby seat to the booster - somehow we thought it was a 4-yr old thing, but it's totally not. It's still too bulky, but she likes it soooo much more.

It's very distressing to think that, once Baby Brother arrives, our wagon will basically not fit anyone but our nuclear family (I'm the only likely rider who could squeeze between infant seat and booster, but my legs are way too long to sit above the hump). In the way-back, Grammy!


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 8:33 PM
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1. Obama nails McCain on visiting Baghdad instead of economically hurting places in the US: beautiful!

2. I move we collectively waive the sanctity of off-blog communications so ogged can do a post of the best (anonymized) e-mails he got while the site was down.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 8:40 PM
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161, that's not exactly an anonymized email, that's some sort of comment spam.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 9:22 PM
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You know, even despite the discussion of a few days ago on whether I had already been banned, it never occurred to me that I had been banned. It's because I prefer to always blame others -- an especially safe bet when ogged is the other.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 9:54 PM
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what did you spend your day doing today?

I taught a training class of sorts about, among other things, digital and analog broadcast television signals. At one point, in drawing a comparative diagram on the white board, I chose a most infelicitous abbreviation of "analog". Whoopsie.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 10:35 PM
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163: I left out the middle i in "Piano Recital Series" once in a newspaper preview. It was in bold all caps, and the fucking copy editor missed it, so it went to print that way.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 10:40 PM
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Probably helped attendance.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 06- 3-08 10:45 PM
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I was actually weirdly, seriously frustrated this morning with the outage. I'm not even in full unfogged addiction mode these days. But I woke up this morning and I wanted my fix and it wasn't there and I found myself hitting refresh quite a lot for the next few hours.


Posted by: Ile | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 12:05 AM
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re: 62

This is the wisdom of my people.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 12:40 AM
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Unfogged being down wasn't that much of a big deal. Because of the time difference it tends to be quite quiet when I'm at work anyway.

I do like catching up with the overnight [for me] comments while having my morning coffee, though.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 12:41 AM
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Hi, ttaM. Good coffee?


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 1:26 AM
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You coffee-drinking bastards; I'm having a (very late) beer after staying up all damn evening doing crafty crap to finish this darn class present nonsense before leaving town tomorrow.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 2:33 AM
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I'm in the Odd Time Zone Massiv, too, I guess. Since I just got into the blog thing like a year ago, this has always been how I consume bloggery: One massive dose at a time, in the mornings. It probably increases productivity, but makes work-goofing more frustrating. "Something HAPPEN, dammit!"

What did I do yesterday? Jack to the shit. I'm taking it easy in preparation of a five day middle-of-the-city festival here in Copenhagen called Distortion. Like 200 bands are playing, all for free, and I have the day off tomorrow (Constitution Day, viking-pilgrims!), so imbibular, 1.5-lingual embarrassment starts pretty much ... now.


Posted by: Rottin' in Denmark | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 3:06 AM
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For the record, what I did yesterday was what I'm paid to do. Made a pleasant change.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 3:08 AM
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re: 169

Yup. High-end [ahem] stuff from Lyons.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 3:46 AM
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it amuses me how many people wrote to ask if they'd been banned.

My first thought was to wonder if my workplace finally blocked the site.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 7:05 AM
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what did you spend your day doing today?
I watched my wife give birth to a baby girl. It hurt like billy-o. Her that is. In contrast, it didn't hurt me at all, although she did shout quite loudly and squeezed my hand rather hard.


Posted by: Nakku | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 7:13 AM
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Congrats to M et Mme Nakku!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 7:23 AM
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w00t!


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 7:25 AM
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Woo! Babies!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 7:27 AM
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More babies! Congratulations, Nakku!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 7:27 AM
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So what did you spend your day doing today?

Consorting with, as Bostonialgirl puts it, those people over at washingtonmonthly.


Posted by: Tripp the Traitor! | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 8:02 AM
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175: Woohoo Mrs. Nakku and the Nakklet! Yay, babies!


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 8:06 AM
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it amuses me how many people wrote to ask if they'd been banned.

Hah! People, where is your dignity? Where is your ego? Where is your arrogance?!

I've been banned by better than Ogged so I sent no such email. Any banning of myself proves the blog is not worthy of my comments.

Trust me, you guys would never make it in the world of acting.

If I had better looks and talent and connections and my youth back you would have heard of me by now!


Posted by: Tripp the Thespian! | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 8:10 AM
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Re: Eleanor Mondale. I recall seeing a touching Life magazine photo of the then-twentysomething Eleanor carrying her father piggyback in the immediate aftermath of his crushing defeat in the 1984 general election. The photo captured the emotions on their faces so perfectly: Eleanor trying bravely to lift her father's spirits, Fritz trying to allow the enjoyment of roughhousing with his daughter to erase the heartache of his loss, but not quite succeeding. The caption of the photo was, IIRC, "He ain't heavy, he's my father."

The memory of that image stuck with me, as Reagan's re-election was probably the most heartbreaking and disillusioning moment I had experienced to date.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 8:11 AM
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My first thought was to wonder if my workplace finally blocked the site.

Same reaction.

And congratulations to Mr. and Mrs. Nakku. Good health and blessings to Baby Nakku.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 8:12 AM
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I recall seeing a touching Life magazine photo of the then-twentysomething Eleanor carrying her father piggyback in the immediate aftermath of his crushing defeat in the 1984 general election.

I think I remember that. I met Eleanor briefly that fall when she campaigned for her father at the college I attended. In spite of having almost no confidence in Mondale's chances of winning that election, I was absolutely infatuated by Eleanor.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 06- 4-08 8:41 AM
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