Re: Read, and Be Consoled, Bitchphd

1

Just once I'd like to see a housing marked blog that isn't covered head to toe in ads, mostly for mortgages.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 9:24 AM
horizontal rule
2

yeah, that blog randomly had indian mortgage ads just now. how many crores of lakhs was that again? it's a good blog, though, just badly designed and ugly.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 9:30 AM
horizontal rule
3

On a quick skim, the article looked pretty good. The US (global) economy is either going to get much worse, or stay bad for a very long time, depending on central bank policies. Most neo-liberals/classicals would prefer "stay bad long time" because hard crashes can cause things like the New Deal, and well, Lenin & Hitler & wars. We are still near the beginning. Maybe save your money for the food riots. Barcelona is near starvation.

But more sanely, yes California home prices will fall a lot further, but do you really want to buy a house in a development that has 7/10 house boarded up and rotting? Whole developments will get bulldozed.

2) Banks and lenders will be failing in droves. Those that survive will be marginal. Credit will become scarce. Mortgage lending standards are going to become very tight, and NDP is gone. Expect a return to the good old days of 10-20% down payments. Maybe best to get in now or very soon before exogenous bullshit creates chaos.

3)Unknown unknowns. How high will oil go? I wouldn't buy in the suburbs/exurbs. I wouldn't buy, period, at least until I saw a clear bottom in RE and a top in oil.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 9:46 AM
horizontal rule
4

Unknown unknowns. How high will oil go?

That's a known unknown.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:00 AM
horizontal rule
5

mcmanus, "near starvation"? I know the truckers are on strike and some perishable goods are harder to get, but I don't see anything quite so dire as near starvation. Can you point me in the evidentiary direction?


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:03 AM
horizontal rule
6

Whole developments will get bulldozed.

I hope they remain intact but are allowed to return to nature, with bird nests in the bathrooms and bees buzzing in the rotting kitchens. That would strike me as very beautiful, like a sunk-ship-turned-habitat in the bottom of the ocean.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:16 AM
horizontal rule
7

Bats love houses, even when you're living in them. Once you leave, they love them even more. I foresee paradise of bats in the American future.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:20 AM
horizontal rule
8

5:Well of course I exaggerate and hyperbole and stuff. But just googling "barcelona food shortages" turned up pages of links. And some of the poor could be hungry. And while it may be temporary due to trucker's protests, I guarantee future headlines and stories along those lines.

Here's a blog entry, since you wanted a link:

Food Shortages

Inadequate evidence!!


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:21 AM
horizontal rule
9

I surf econblogs at 90 pages at hour some days, so I don't quite remember where I saw that headline.

But here's Mish

The latest news is that the Spanish gov't forced truckers back to work (cleared the roads?) at gunpoint, and people have died in Spain. If truckers are losing money, I don't know how broke gov'ts can force them to deliver food. Spain being broke because of their own housing problems.

Global economy is fucking fragile beyond comprehension.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:28 AM
horizontal rule
10

We're actually having a serious die-off of bats in upstate NY, where I have returned for the summer.

The rewilding of America will only be complete when we get some large non-human primates, like chimps. (Also, elephants) It would be fun to see them occupying abandoned suburbs, but I don't know if our houses provide enough climbing opportunities.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:31 AM
horizontal rule
11

Bears. Hott bears.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:32 AM
horizontal rule
12

IM IN UR FORECLOZURS, EATIN UR ABANDOND PEENUT BUDDER


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:39 AM
horizontal rule
13

Emerson, have you been fucking the shit out of bears again?


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:40 AM
horizontal rule
14

The northeast now has predators again, in the form of coyotes.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:41 AM
horizontal rule
15

(I guess there were always black bears, but coyotes seem to have a bigger range & get closer to major cities).


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:44 AM
horizontal rule
16

Sometimes I just surf to get impressions of sentiment. Money=credit=optimism. Keynes 101:The only thing you have to fear is fear itself. Corollary:Capitalism, especially finance capitalism, is pure-D 100% bullshit, and only works when we believe the bullshit. Add real unbullshitable scarcity, and capitalism is in trouble. We had enough trouble in the 30s when it was all psychological/sociological.

Socialism doesn't have as much upside, maybe, but also much less downside. People will believe in each other more readily than in whatever the fuck a Lehmann Bros is.

Am I trying to accelerate the gloom? I don't want President Obama to have the option of returning to Rubinism. I want a New New Deal


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:45 AM
horizontal rule
17

I want a New New Deal

Not blood in the streets? I like this moderate version of bob.

I think we'd all like to see the return of a real Democratic party economic policy. The Democrats haven't been Democrats on the economy since LBJ.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:48 AM
horizontal rule
18

My feelings about bears are limited to purely Platonic admiration for their beauty and hottness. The lady bears of the world need not fear violation by me.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:49 AM
horizontal rule
19

Technically "sows", but what a horrible name for such lovely creatures.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:49 AM
horizontal rule
20

Coyotes are everywhere.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:54 AM
horizontal rule
21

Also on the plus side: more time to look for houses, more time to develop a better down payment.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:55 AM
horizontal rule
22

Texas has havolinas, which are some weird ROUS-esque creatures.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:57 AM
horizontal rule
23

Part of me is hopeful that personal financial responsibility will become the new thing for the conservatives' moral wand to beat us with. That maybe this will re-norm living within one's means, and diminish the conspicuous consumption frenzy.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 11:00 AM
horizontal rule
24

Not blood in the streets? I like this moderate version of bob.

Umm, I want improvement very very badly. It bothered me when I read in another thread that Emerson doesn't expect real change in his lifetime. I am more optimistic than that. And optimism doesn't exclude "blood in the streets". Some blood isn't the worst that can happen.

Re streetblood:Balkinization post on 1968, Danny the Red and his concerned friend Hannah Arendt. Links to a long serious 1968 piece by Arendt on political violence. Not:Arendt says "political violence" is an oxymoron.

I don't necessarily completely agree with Arendt, but I do think on these things more than I imagine people imagine.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 11:10 AM
horizontal rule
25

Part of me is hopeful that personal financial responsibility will become the new thing for the conservatives' moral wand to beat us with.

What are the odds of that? The republicans have been pushing borrowing and conspicuous consumption for decades. Greenspan was advocating ARMs as late as, what 2003? Bush II has been demanding normal consumption levels while maintaining we are in a war. I still distinctly remember the time when GHW Bush made a photo op out of buying a pair of socks in order to encourage consumer confidence.

Personal financial responsibility will never be a republican cause, but it is a great place for Democrats to final take back some of the rhetoric of virtue and responsibility.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 11:13 AM
horizontal rule
26

The lady bears of the world need not fear violation by me.

What if they make the first move?


Posted by: feldspar | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 11:16 AM
horizontal rule
27

26: That is awesome, and I'm sending it out to all of you next February.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 11:19 AM
horizontal rule
28

What are the odds of that? The republicans have been pushing borrowing and conspicuous consumption for decades.

I know. Sometimes it feels like they are just creatively evil for the sake of showing off how creative they can be.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 11:21 AM
horizontal rule
29

Rob laughs, but if Americans had stopped buying socks, the cascading butterfly effect easily could have brought America to its knees, and we'd be living under Iraqi rule today. People smarter than hi have studied wartime sock markets and their implications.

More seriously, we're being convinced that constant war is the normal state, and that the people's role (and Congress's) is to pay taxes, go about their lives, and let things happen.

The constitutional presumption that war is an exceptional state that has to be decided upon and declared has been obsoleted.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 11:22 AM
horizontal rule
30

AWB, before you make any hasty decisions, you should also check out his other Valentine's themed comic.


Posted by: feldspar | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 11:24 AM
horizontal rule
31

Disregard 30. That one can be for someone else who is not a white bear.


Posted by: feldspar | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 11:27 AM
horizontal rule
32

30 is really cute, too.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 11:30 AM
horizontal rule
33

OT, but if anyone hasn't visited the food wiki in a while (pass "wmybsalb"), there is a lot of tasty new stuff up, including summer salads, cardamom cake and cardamom ice, seafood lunches, etc. I'm going to make that cake today, probably, while I procrastinate.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 11:33 AM
horizontal rule
34

The Spanish government did not force the strikers back to work, they forced them to stop forcing other truckers not to work. Not quite the same thing. The class analysis if you insist on it is small business owners vs. unionized employees of large companies and the owners of those large companies - i.e. petit bourgeoisie against both the working class and the upper bourgeoisie.


Posted by: tkm | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 11:54 AM
horizontal rule
35

What is this food wiki of which you speak and how can I get access?


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 12:13 PM
horizontal rule
36

Magpie, that link should work, and just type in the password "wmybsalb". I do warn all that if you use your handle here, which is nice, know that in the "recent visitors" thing, it will show what state you're in. So if you don't want your location attached to your pseud, feel free to pick a new pseud.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 12:16 PM
horizontal rule
37

it will show what state you're in

What!? My carefully-preserved aura of geographical mystery, swept away in a too-trusting login!

Oh, right. Nevermind.

Let's go Bucs!


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 12:24 PM
horizontal rule
38

"Posted by John Emerson in an unhinged state"? Count me out.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 12:34 PM
horizontal rule
39

What, John, you think sometimes people will mistake you for hinged?


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 12:46 PM
horizontal rule
40

OT: Does anyone have suggestions for a team name for a bunch of math people?
(The implied sport is long distance running.)

All I've got so far is Department of Mathletics . . .


Posted by: feldspar | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 12:52 PM
horizontal rule
41

40: The Long Division?


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 12:58 PM
horizontal rule
42

I think that people should be more appreciative of my relatively hinged states.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 12:59 PM
horizontal rule
43

40: np-hard?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 1:01 PM
horizontal rule
44

Riemann's Raiders?


Posted by: feldspar | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 1:08 PM
horizontal rule
45

Tortoises and Hares? Arrows?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 1:14 PM
horizontal rule
46

The critical zeros?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 1:20 PM
horizontal rule
47

The Running Sums?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 1:24 PM
horizontal rule
48

Just messing around (is there a verb form to dilettante?) I discover Kotsko liveblogging Agamben and add him to my blogroll, which is how I got 200 daily reads a while back.

The Two Paradigms

One could look at my 16 above, about the modern global economy, modern civilization being based entirely on faith and then read Kotsko. If one were a scholar or had a brain, one could be interesting, entertaining, or even useful about it.

I remember being horrified years ago when reading a Berube three-parter on Raymond Williams and thinking:"Dammit, this shit could be really useful if it wasn't ghettoized to the theorysphere." I know Tyler Cowen & DeLong have read some recent philosophy, but I am just not seeing much mixing of disciplines out there. But I could be blind.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 1:33 PM
horizontal rule
49

-Finding the Limit
-The Hamiltonian Circuits (seems like graph traversal would be a good place to look in general)
-L2-Norms of Velocity
-The Power Sets
-The Random Walks
-The Nonstationary Time Series


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 1:48 PM
horizontal rule
50

The Travelling Salesmen!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 1:51 PM
horizontal rule
51

Our math soccer team was called The Eulers. Which I feel like I should explain, because I didn't get initially that there is a team called The Houston Oilers, and it was so much better once it was explained to me.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 1:54 PM
horizontal rule
52

OT: Does anyone have suggestions for a team name for a bunch of math people? (The implied sport is long distance running.)

Major Catheti.

cardamom cake

The one from My Bombay Kitchen? Rfts made it yesterday, and it's frigging delicious.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 1:54 PM
horizontal rule
53

I just pulled it out of the oven. Nearly set my damn kitchen on fire, too.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 1:58 PM
horizontal rule
54

I've met Niloufer -- a friend of ours used to work for her -- and she's an incredible perfectionist; I'd imagine that there's going to be a really high success rate for the recipes in that book.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 2:02 PM
horizontal rule
55

||

Is Ayn Rand a consequentialist or a deontologist? I gather most people assume egoism is a consequentialist philosophy, but it doesn't have to be. Does Rand have a overt statement about this?

|>


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 2:03 PM
horizontal rule
56

hey, snarkout, I know Niloufer too. Weird.


Posted by: Tia | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 2:08 PM
horizontal rule
57

I just pulled it out of the oven.

Yay! I just put another dish from the same cookbook (sliced winter squash with garlic, chiles, and curry leaves) in the oven.

Nearly set my damn kitchen on fire, too.

Whee! Good show.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 2:08 PM
horizontal rule
58

hey, snarkout, I know Niloufer too. Weird.

! That is weird. Tiny world.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 2:09 PM
horizontal rule
59

55:You'll just have to read Objectivism to find out. It is not a huge volume, and may be available online. I stopped at the first sentence:"Existence Exists" but I was all Kant-ridden at the time.

5:Post Peak Iberia ...Oildrum

Elsewhere, Irish fishermen are suspending the blockade to the ports of Cork and Waterford. Belgian drivers are planning action against high fuel prices for the 19th and 20th of the month, considering a blockade of Brussels [hat tip Migeru]

Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 2:19 PM
horizontal rule
60

You'll just have to read Objectivism to find out.

See, that's really the last thing I wanted to do.

If Heidegger can have the nothing nothing itself, then I guess Rand can have existence existing.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 2:21 PM
horizontal rule
61

Hey rob. Objectivism considers itself a type of virtue ethics and rejects deontological reasoning because it lead to fascism, communism and (even worse) the welfare state. The article 'Objectivist Ethics' at the wikipedia will likely answer most of your questions.


Posted by: Tiny Hermaphrodite | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 2:39 PM
horizontal rule
62

I put a little spice and honey glaze on the cake and am eating it now and wishing life were a little longer.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 2:41 PM
horizontal rule
63

I started watching This Movie just the other night hoping to see a hot threesome with Eric Stoltz, Julie Delpy, and Helen Mirren. But after fifteen minutes they were still passionate about TRUTH and then were passionate about TRUTH in NYC and I knew Mirren had lost creative control. Mirren with Stoltz wouldn't be enough, so I turned it off.

Just a possible alternative to Objectivism. Maybe Mirren answers your question about consequentialism in one of her nude scenes.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 2:42 PM
horizontal rule
64

Cake is long, life short.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 2:47 PM
horizontal rule
65

Thanks you, small multi-sexed person.

I skimmed wikipedia, but didn't see what I wanted.

Helen Mirren naked is incredibly sexy, but Helen Mirren playing Ayn Rand naked probably wouldn't be. She's a good enough actress that the Randishness would come out, and that would just be the end of it.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 2:51 PM
horizontal rule
66

I love how I can't tell if 61 is joking or not. I always have this problem with objectivists.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 3:12 PM
horizontal rule
67

Well then there are surely primers at the Ayn Rand Institute Homepage and its enemy counterpart The Atlas Society, but I don't think they will be more comprehensive than wikipedia. Perhaps you should simply bite the bullet and get yourself "The Virtue of Selfishness". It's mercifully short.


Posted by: Tiny Hermaphrodite | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 3:13 PM
horizontal rule
68

Bob, if you think truckers or fishermen striking is new and terrifying....well, just keep off European politics. That is all.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 3:13 PM
horizontal rule
69

@essear
Just to avoid confusion, I am not an Objectivist.


Posted by: Tiny Hermaphrodite | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 3:15 PM
horizontal rule
70

69: thanks. I've heard things like "communism and (even worse) the welfare state" from people who seemed fervently convinced that they were making sense, so I'm never sure.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 3:18 PM
horizontal rule
71

70 is sad statement on our fallen world.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 3:38 PM
horizontal rule
72

68 is the kind of bad faith argument that pisses me off, and I shouldn't respond to it.

Ob-fucking-viously it ain't striking truckdrivers that is disturbing, it that they are striking for the same reason in five+ countries, said reason being fuel prices and shortages.

And since we are seeing strikes, social unrest, violence, & food shortages at $140 a barrel, and since today I read that $250 a barrel may be expected in the near future, I don't feel insane for being concerned.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 4:08 PM
horizontal rule
73

For the interested:
Riffing off 45, we went with Zeno's Research Foundation.

Not totally satisfied, but it should get us through the race.


Posted by: feldspar | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 7:53 PM
horizontal rule
74

16

"Socialism doesn't have as much upside, maybe, but also much less downside. ..."

North Korea? Cambodia under the Khemer Rouge? Looks like plenty of downside to me.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 9:09 PM
horizontal rule
75

74 was me.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 9:27 PM
horizontal rule
76

Can we retire the red-baiting analogies? I don't think socialism is a good idea either, but come on. The people advocating socialism are advocating something closer to Britain or Sweden in the 50s, not Cambodia in the 70s.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:02 PM
horizontal rule
77

Don't you get it? North Korea refers to itself as socialist, so it's basically the same type of thing as Sweden. And Nazi Germany. It's all one big goosestepping Dear-Leader-worshipping lingonberry-drenched continuum.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:11 PM
horizontal rule
78

one big goosestepping Dear-Leader-worshipping lingonberry-drenched continuum

Lingonberries *do* go well with goose...


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:14 PM
horizontal rule
79

She's right, you know. And we've already assimilated Minnesota. Tremble, California!


Posted by: the lingonberry-drenched continuum | Link to this comment | 06-15-08 10:28 PM
horizontal rule
80

Bob, continent wide strikes aren't that unusual either, especially with truckers.


Posted by: Martin Wisse | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 1:24 AM
horizontal rule
81

I mean, I can remember French fisherman blockades from 1992 and trucker ones from 1995...


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 4:34 AM
horizontal rule
82

Bob, continent wide strikes aren't that unusual either, especially with truckers

But of course that couldn't have been Alex's obvious point! That a trucker's strike, far from being a Sign that there is Imminent Starvation, could be just a sign that European workers tend to strike more than American ones!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 6:37 AM
horizontal rule
83

Also, "Barcelona is near starvation" is something of an overstatement. A friend of mine just got back from there and reports a steady availability of (rather good) food. There is an issue with drinking water, apparently - this is Spain, it happens - but it doesn't seem to be stopping people watering their lawns, and in the long run they plan to pipe it in from France. It was raining while he was there.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 6:53 AM
horizontal rule
84

If being opposed to Pol Pot is wrong, James B. Shearer doesn't want to be right.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 8:15 AM
horizontal rule
85

Aww, Alameida, thanks. It's so nice to have the cultural capital to know people who actually know shit about money. It makes up a little for having grown up with a mother who seriously says things like "as long as you can make the minimum payment on your credit cards, you're doing fine."

many who once thought they were "prime" are going to be realizing there is nothing prime about them
Uh, yes, that would probably be me and Mr. B. When we first started trying to get serious about house-buying, I talked to someone at WaMu who ended up offering us one of those minimum payment loans. My "what, are you kidding?" was basically met with "well you just refinance." Thank god I'm not *that* stupid.

Still haven't decided if we'll move to a cheaper rental (the intelligent pain-in-the-ass option) or just suck it up and tighten the belt for a few months in the place we're in (the wasteful path of least resistance). But I SWEAR TO GOD I'm holding out for a tile roof.


Posted by: ecided | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 9:24 AM
horizontal rule
86

Aww, Alameida, thanks. It's so nice to have the cultural capital to know people who actually know shit about money. It makes up a little for having grown up with a mother who seriously says things like "as long as you can make the minimum payment on your credit cards, you're doing fine."

many who once thought they were "prime" are going to be realizing there is nothing prime about them
Uh, yes, that would probably be me and Mr. B. When we first started trying to get serious about house-buying, I talked to someone at WaMu who ended up offering us one of those minimum payment loans. My "what, are you kidding?" was basically met with "well you just refinance." Thank god I'm not *that* stupid.

Still haven't decided if we'll move to a cheaper rental (the intelligent pain-in-the-ass option) or just suck it up and tighten the belt for a few months in the place we're in (the wasteful path of least resistance). But I SWEAR TO GOD I'm holding out for a tile roof.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 9:31 AM
horizontal rule
87

Oops.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 9:33 AM
horizontal rule
88

You're gettting a 30 year fixed when you jump, yeah?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 9:36 AM
horizontal rule
89

Also, "Barcelona is near starvation" is something of an overstatement.

Giant puppets is what I do.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:18 AM
horizontal rule
90

88: Of course, dear god. That's what we were bidding with.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:25 AM
horizontal rule
91

90: yay!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:35 AM
horizontal rule
92

B, we're also looking to buy (not a house, probably, but an apartment). A place we looked at just 3 weeks ago has already come down in price by 30K: which may not sound like a whole lot, but for the past decade, the prices have only gone up up up, so this is a real reversal in the trend. I really love this apartment (pre-War, huge rooms, architectural charm, etc) and I know somebody else is going to buy it...but, we've decided it makes sense to hold off for another six to eight months.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:37 AM
horizontal rule
93

we've decided it makes sense to hold off for another six to eight months.

At least.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:39 AM
horizontal rule
94

pre-War

And another big difference between Americans and Canadians. Down here, we have to be rather more specific than that.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:40 AM
horizontal rule
95

The air conditioner guy is here at the house telling me I need to spend 10k. Joy.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:42 AM
horizontal rule
96

Holy crap, 10K? That seems outrageous.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:43 AM
horizontal rule
97

That's exactly what my in-laws just found out fixing their AC was going to cost.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:44 AM
horizontal rule
98

95/97 yikes. (makes mental note never to buy a sealed box house in a hot part of the country. could be tricky.)


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:46 AM
horizontal rule
99

10K? But don't they cost less than that to put in in the first place?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:48 AM
horizontal rule
100

98: They live in a very big house (family of 6 and my b-i-l is a quite successful engineer) and the unit that cooled the entire upstairs had to be replaced outright.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:48 AM
horizontal rule
101

Why not just pack ice around your genitals?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:50 AM
horizontal rule
102

Wet pants suck, Tweety. You need dry ice.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:51 AM
horizontal rule
103

Why would they wear pants?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:53 AM
horizontal rule
104

You wear pants?!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:54 AM
horizontal rule
105

The most painful pwn is the least expected.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:55 AM
horizontal rule
106

The most painful pwn feels very much like dry ice on your genitals.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:56 AM
horizontal rule
107

Cool and comfortable?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:58 AM
horizontal rule
108

105: Indeed.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 10:59 AM
horizontal rule
109

That picture is so fucking awesome.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 11:05 AM
horizontal rule
110

My house isn't very big, but has a separate unit for the second floor -- just bedrooms. It's leaking coolant in the coil in the upstairs unit -- cleverly built in so that several square feet of ceiling have to be ripped out just to get at it -- and at the compressor outside.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 11:05 AM
horizontal rule
111

Just out of interest, how much does air conditioning cost to run? It seems to me that if we're looking at oil prices killing suburban life, they will kill air conditioned suburban life that much quicker.


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:06 PM
horizontal rule
112

111: turns out to be slightly more efficient to live in a warm climate and run AC than to live in a cold climate and heat your house in the winter, I believe.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:07 PM
horizontal rule
113

Air conditioning is a lot cheaper than heating. Less necessary, of course, but still cheaper. Especially if you don't try to cool your house to 65, like a moron.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:09 PM
horizontal rule
114

111: It depends a lot on how much air you have too cool, unsurprisingly. Current suburban design runs mostly to `build a box, mostly seal it up, use central air and heat to control temperature.'. This is cheap and has been applied in almost total ignorance of local conditions, but really stupid from an energy efficiency point of view. Building houses differently (less `dead' airspace, go back to designs that work with prevailing local weather, etc.) could make a huge difference.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:10 PM
horizontal rule
115

how much does air conditioning cost to run?

Depends on the size, layout, and energy efficiency of your house, what kind of HVAC unit you use, etc. Our power bill for the past month was just over $60, but it's a small house that's mostly shaded.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:10 PM
horizontal rule
116

Living in Ventura is the most efficient of all.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:11 PM
horizontal rule
117

116 is true, but then again, you'd have to live in Ventura.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:12 PM
horizontal rule
118

116: as long as you don't need water.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:12 PM
horizontal rule
119

Living in Ventura a van down by the river is the most efficient of all.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:12 PM
horizontal rule
120

118: I'm packing up the rainstorms we've been having all week in Minneapolis and taking them home with me.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:16 PM
horizontal rule
121

Don't bother, B. They'll just confiscate them at the border with any oranges you happen to have.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:17 PM
horizontal rule
122

111: I thought of that as I posted. But there are parts of the USA, surely, that need a/c in summer and get blizzards in winter. And New England was supporting a large white population long before New Mexico. Thick sweaters more popular and practical than dry ice down the pants.


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:18 PM
horizontal rule
123

And New England was supporting a large white population long before New Mexico.

Pure speculation, but this may be partly because fire was invented a few years before air conditioning.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:20 PM
horizontal rule
124

apo: thanks for the figure. That is a lot less than heating, and, of course, all these things could be better designed. So it probably doesn't matter very much, and possibly more for offices.


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:21 PM
horizontal rule
125

123: Or maybe because New England is on the Atlantic coast.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:23 PM
horizontal rule
126

That is a lot less than heating

In the dead of winter, our power bills are roughly double that despite our winters getting increasingly warm here.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:25 PM
horizontal rule
127

125: plus, the Pilgrims were idiots.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:27 PM
horizontal rule
128

Well that too.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:29 PM
horizontal rule
129

turns out to be slightly more efficient to live in a warm climate and run AC than to live in a cold climate and heat your house in the winter, I believe

according to a really dodgy piece of research for Wire magazine that seems to assume some quite funny things about insulation. And of course, in carbon footprint terms, it makes a big difference that burning gas to produce heat is pretty much the only thing you can do that has more or less 100% energy efficiency.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:32 PM
horizontal rule
130

129: I believed less than correctly, apparently. Makes more sense that way around, really.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:40 PM
horizontal rule
131

123: Lots of places on the Atlantic coast where no one ever wanted to live: Florida, Georgia, all those places to which most immigrants came in chains ...


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 12:51 PM
horizontal rule
132

Our power bill for the past month was just over $60

In summer Dallas, add a zero. Our winters are probably like Ventura, but I don't think we can run our computers for that little.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 2:12 PM
horizontal rule
133

126, 129: Efficiencies aside though the fact remains that for most of the US, there is a lot more need to heat than cool, even in NC Heating Degree Days is approximately twice Cooling Degree Days (although as apo notes this has been changing). People live in Florida without A/C, no one lives in Minnesota without heating. Does not take away the point about the sloppiness of the calculation, but Tweety's overall point in 112 (if you don't focus on the "efficiency" but rather the overall amount of energy used) is somewhat correct, less energy would be used by a general southward movement of the population in the US.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 4:54 PM
horizontal rule
134

less energy would be used by a general southward movement of the population in the US.

This works in two senses. Global warming might take care of both of them!


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 5:18 PM
horizontal rule
135

Apostropher has a really good memory and is industrious, so much time and efforts just to click on all the links, i give up, maybe in the evening
hope you'll blog about how did you trained your memory so well
i wonder whether ogged's hiatus this time is also about poetry translation, i so hope it's so


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 5:21 PM
horizontal rule
136

-ed


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 5:21 PM
horizontal rule
137

i think this is the wrong thread
i thought i commented in the uppermost thread
how come been reading that thread and wrote here
really i'm so confused with all this havoc


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 06-16-08 5:33 PM
horizontal rule