Re: Ask the dark, dark Mineshaft: sleepytime edition

1

I'm naturally a night owl type person, but I'm interested in being less of a night owl

Have a baby with someone. This will destroy any beliefs you have that you are "naturally" a morning- or night-time person, and also accomplish your stated goal, as you will begin your days around 5:30am.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:02 PM
horizontal rule
2

Have children. That will change your sleep schedule.

More seriously: My sleep schedule has only changed when it had to. In grad school, I set my alarm clock for 11 AM to make a 1 PM class. I'd have continued like that indefinitely, had not very concrete responsibilities intervened. First early morning classes. Now children. Getting up a 6 AM is common.

Also, you should consider whether something more serious is driving your sleep schedule. I've had episodes of depression that kept me in bed all day long and pacing all night. That's probably not you, but it is worth checking.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:04 PM
horizontal rule
3

Frolicking kittens can perform the same function at a fraction of the cost.


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:04 PM
horizontal rule
4

I'm not really pwned by Gonerill, because I'm drawing the opposite conclusion from the same observation. Yes, anyone can change their sleep schedule if they have to. But no one will unless they have to.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:06 PM
horizontal rule
5

3: Kittens are nowhere near as insistent and far more easily sated. Trust us.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:07 PM
horizontal rule
6

Suuuure you weren't really pwned.

Also, my counterexample misunderstood the intention of your argument, because you didn't intend your argument to have any counterexamples. ;)


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:08 PM
horizontal rule
7

Gonerill is Nelson Goodman!


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:11 PM
horizontal rule
8

This will destroy any beliefs you have that you are "naturally" a morning- or night-time person, and also accomplish your stated goal, as you will begin your days around 5:30am.

Eh. Once she was 3, Iris started sleeping in as well. Now that AB & I both work from home, it's a struggle to get Iris to school by 9. None of us is a morning person, although Iris is closest. I need relatively little sleep - 6 hours min., 7 hours max. - whereas AB feels tired with fewer than 8 hours. Yet we both prefer to get that sleep starting around midnight. The idea of bed before 11 pm is laughable.

That said, when I've needed to get up earlier, I have - I'm with rob's 4. But I basically think that night owldom is pretty much ingrained by adulthood (nature or nurture? Doesn't matter!). If you're going to try to change your schedule, you can do it with rigorous regularity; but you'll always be at risk of backsliding.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:15 PM
horizontal rule
9

Serotonin is supposed to reset your clock. People use it to recover from jet lag. If you take a pill when you want to be going to bed, it will reset you to that schedule.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:16 PM
horizontal rule
10

Shit, I meant melatonin. Don't take medical advice from comments on the internets.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:18 PM
horizontal rule
11

I had to get up at 430am for most days of the past month. I thought that would reset my clock for the better, since working during daylight hours and getting some genuine morning time gave me a sense of, uh, well-being, but today I woke up at 11. Back to the damn drawing-board.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:18 PM
horizontal rule
12

I believe the effects of melatonin have to be psychosomatic. That said, it worked well for me.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:28 PM
horizontal rule
13

I'm a night person who spent a decade or so working nights. God how I resented giving that job the best hours in my day.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:28 PM
horizontal rule
14

I tend to be a night-owl, but it has a great deal to do with setting.

Put me in the country, with gorgeous mornings (no traffic in earshot) and bracing green air, and I'll absolutely be happy to rise at 7 or even 6:30! So okay, 7 counts as pretty early for me.

The idea of natural biorhythms or some such is attractive -- I could forgive myself for a persistent tendency to want to get up at 9 or 9:30 -- but my understanding is that those things can be pretty easily altered. And indeed they are for me, if I just go camping. It's the natural light. Or rather, it's the unnatural light involved in urban living that shifts us toward late-night living. No?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:33 PM
horizontal rule
15

Gonerill and helpy-chalk are pikers, as are most people who have their kids one at a time. The thing to do is to have twins, one of whom is a night person and the other a morning person. Sleep? I sleep a lot—why, for years I've slept several times a night.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:35 PM
horizontal rule
16

8: All of this will be much easier for JRoth and AB once I claim Iris for my own. Soon, soon . . .


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:37 PM
horizontal rule
17

;)

Standards have really slipped ever since ogged left.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:40 PM
horizontal rule
18

Slate just had an article about this two weeks ago and based on its advice I started taking 1mg of melatonin a half hour before the desired new bedtime. It doesn't make me drowsy like Benadryl does, but when I get into bed I go to sleep very fast and wake up at the alarm time all right. Actually, I've been waking up a half hour before the alarm, which is an entirely novel experience. No side effects so far but it hasn't been very long.


Posted by: terture | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:40 PM
horizontal rule
19

Move west.


Posted by: Mo MacArbie | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:43 PM
horizontal rule
20

I'm probably the most extreme night person here. My natural circadian rhythm would be to sleep from about 6 AM to 2 PM. Yet I lack any of the musical or artistic talents that could make such a schedule possible. To make things more difficult, I really need 8 hours of sleep.

The only solution I found was to get a series of committments that really force me to get up in the morning, and to try to follow the schedule of the normal sleepers I date. Fighting against slippage is still a constant battle, though.

The fate of the night person in today's society is difficult. Being a night person is also correlated with various forms of insanity, including schizophrenia.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:47 PM
horizontal rule
21

Move west.

My Mom was very much in favor of my moving to California, arguing that "everything is three hours earlier there, it matches your normal schedule". I tried to convince her it doesn't work that way but she didn't believe me.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:49 PM
horizontal rule
22

Left to my own devices I would go to sleep at 3 or 4 am and wake up at 11. Since having kids this has not been possible, but I still can't get to sleep at a 'normal' time, despite many well-meant but clueless predictions along the lines of Gonerill's 1. So instead I go to sleep at 3 am, wake up at 7, and generally get tired and irritable. After a few days of this I get really tired in the evenings, and sometimes fall asleep when the kids go to bed, about 8. Then I wake up at midnight and the whole cycle begins again.
It is not ideal, and I am looking forward to a time when no-one needs to be woken up and taken to school. I figure if I sour them enough on education, I can get the kids to drop out at 15. But the baby just set my plan back another 5 years.


Posted by: Nakku | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:50 PM
horizontal rule
23

No time to comment since I'm off to bed but I assume somebody's recommended meth?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 8:59 PM
horizontal rule
24

23: I don't think someone who goes to bed before 11 gets to recommend meth.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 9:04 PM
horizontal rule
25

Move west.

Move north and south, depending on the season. Years ago I was on a bike trip up north at the height of summer (crossing the Arctic Circle on the solstice), and the effect of all that daylight was way beyond what I'd expected. We'd sleep fitfully for about four hours before feeling an urgent need to break camp and get the fuck going; it was like being a speed freak, but with some special organic speed that had no side effects.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 9:05 PM
horizontal rule
26

Since having kids this has not been possible, but I still can't get to sleep at a 'normal' time, despite many well-meant but clueless predictions along the lines of Gonerill's 1.

In that case, try gin.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 9:07 PM
horizontal rule
27

I've really begun to notice the effect that alcohol has on my sleep. Even 3 drinks and I wake up around 1-2:00, not to sleep again until about a half hour before I have to get up. Increasing the dosage may delay the waking a couple hours, but it isn't at all restful. I'm turning into a sleep junky.


Posted by: Mo MacArbie | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 9:18 PM
horizontal rule
28

I usually go to sleep, with the help of drugs, around 1-3 and get up around 6-7 AM. I sometimes take a hour nap during the afternoon. Often, like twice this week, I wake around 4-5. I am not incredibly physically active but not sedentary.

My mind went away decades ago.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 9:20 PM
horizontal rule
29

My sleep schedule is usually all kinds of messed up. I used to go to sleep later and later every night until I was sleeping from noon until 6pm and then eventually worked my way back around again (I was mostly just skipping my classes). After I slept through an exam, I went to the University Health Services and got a prescription for some sleeping pills so I wouldn't miss any more exams that term. They also set me up for a consult with a sleep doctor. After a half-dozen visits with the sleep doctor over the course of a few months, her ultimate diagnosis was "lack of motivation."

So I guess that's a vote in favor of 2 and 4.


Posted by: August | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 9:25 PM
horizontal rule
30

26: try gin
I already drink plenty of that.

(then you say)
'I meant for the kids'.
(boom tish!)


Posted by: Nakku | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 9:52 PM
horizontal rule
31

In my experience kids only affects the sleeping habits of the weaker parent (me). My wife is just as much of a night owl as ever. I'm the one whose been forcibly converted to morning-personness.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 10:09 PM
horizontal rule
32

to try to follow the schedule of the normal sleepers I date

This is what's worked for me. The problem is that it only works when you're in the immediate proximity of the normal sleeper; go away for a while, and suddenly you're right back to staying up until 2 commenting on Unfogged.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 10:11 PM
horizontal rule
33

My Dad works 3rd shift Monday-Thursday: awake at 10:00, to bed at 2:00--just hours before his wife gets up to do triathletey things. On Saturday and Sunday he shifts his schedule entirely: awake at 5:30, to bed at 9:30. I have never understood how he does it, but he's kept it up for nearly 10 years now.

But more to the point, my wife was a nightowl too when we first married and though she no longer stays up until 3:00 a.m. every morning, she has never switched entirely away from her natural rhythm of late rising. That I am up early most mornings (and consequently not up late most nights) caused a lot of conflict when we first married.


Posted by: hermit greg | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 10:23 PM
horizontal rule
34

I really hate staying up past 2, but it seems to be what I "naturally" do.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 10:33 PM
horizontal rule
35

The problem is that it only works when you're in the immediate proximity of the normal sleeper

Ayup. I'm awaiting a band that's supposed to stay at my house tonight. After their arrival, I'm going to pedal over to eekbeat's house (giving up a bed for the band; sleeping with the normal sleeper; etc.). This is one of our greatest challenges as a couple.

But I think it's largely a lifestyle thing. When I had classes to attend, and no itinerant bands showing up on my stoop in the wee hours, I was great at going to bed.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 11:43 PM
horizontal rule
36

But I think it's largely a lifestyle thing. When I had classes to attend, and no itinerant bands showing up on my stoop in the wee hours, I was great at going to bed.

I dunno. I've always been terrible at going to bed, even when I had classes and/or a job that required me to get up early. For example, I have to be at a lecture at 9:00 am tomorrow, and yet here I am.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 11:55 PM
horizontal rule
37

And on that note, I'm off to bed. Good night, everyone!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07- 1-08 11:56 PM
horizontal rule
38

You have a built-in circadian clock (more than one, actually) that keeps you to an approximately 24-hr schedule. But it's really sloppy; it's rarely really at 24 hours, and it varies by age. In order to try to keep things from getting too grossly off the clock, you also have light-sensitive mechanisms that try to reset the clock, with the dark-to-light transition being the most important switch. The light-reset and the circadian clock can often be a little too well-matched when they fight which is why you feel like ass when you try to change your schedule.

If you're a lark, your circadian clock is running a little faster than 24 hours; if you're an owl, it's running longer. So no matter what time you got up, the urge to go to bed will happen sooner for a lark and later for an owl, as will be true for when they want to get up the next day. The regular dark-light transitions of the day are what keep the respective cycles from just phase-shifting in either direction indefinitely. (The Germans did some great but impossible-to-get-approved-by-a-subjects-committee-now experiments putting college students in constant-light conditions, and their cycles spread right on out so they were happily experiencing some veeeeeery long days. Constant dark conditions, on the other hand, just make people crazy.)

If you want to retrain yourself, what you want to do is put a light source over your bed, on a timer, that goes on about 15-20 minutes after you want to wake up. After, because your clock, once reset, anticipates the oncoming light. (On the veldt, you sleep in, you get et.) For the first couple of days, find a way -- a quarter stick of dynamite, if that's what it takes -- to make sure you actually get up at the desired time. Yes, that's the hard part, but it should only take a couplea-three days. Keep good sleep hygeine - go to bed when you feel tired, wind down, blah blah, and *lower the lights* before bed. To avoid waking up in the middle of the night, don't drink before bed and set the temperature to the cool side of comfortable. Easy enough to say, I realize, but a few days of this should reset you.

If you are a teenager or some other kind of young person, getting up earlier will be harder because your clock is running hella long. If you are a person of a certain age, going to bed later, skipping your nap, or sleeping in on the weekends may be difficult because not only is your cycle running ever-shorter, but your slow-wave sleep is going to shit, and you're more likely to wake up spontaneously, rested or not, during short-wave sleep, so you're going to feel tired during the day no matter what, you poor moribund old sumbitch.


Posted by: sureborokoratsu | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 12:19 AM
horizontal rule
39

Yes, anyone can change their sleep schedule if they have to.

Actually, I don't know if I believe that 100%.

I've been getting up before 7am at least 6 days a week for the past 6 years [because I have to]. Nevertheless, that schedule is still completely wrong for me and I continue to wake up feeling tired every morning.

I'm not a super-night-owl, but given any kind of choice, I'd go to bed around 1.30 -2am get up around 8.30 - 9.30. Getting up before 7 continues, psychologically, to feel like an alien experiment that one day will/must stop.

my understanding is that those things can be pretty easily altered. And indeed they are for me, if I just go camping. It's the natural light. Or rather, it's the unnatural light involved in urban living that shifts us toward late-night living. No?

No. I sleep in a room which faces the rising sun, with pale blinds that don't block the light. Quite often the blinds are even open. Makes no difference. Getting up before 8am always feels wrong.

Nakku is right. All these claims that it's straightforward to adjust are well-meant but wrong, I think. Not everyone easily adjusts to an earlier [or later] schedule.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 12:24 AM
horizontal rule
40

If you are an academic and it is all about work and you work best at night, I would suggest not changing. And not feeling guilty about it.

For some reason, when I have been able to get up by 5 a.m. I've been able to replicate the same work schedule I can have at 2 a.m. But if I've tried to be a 9 to 5er, it has wreaked havoc with my work.

I have a kid. The only difference it has made is that I go to bed by 4 and get up at 8 and then catch up at some much future time. It has not gotten me to sleep early. The kids thing did not work for me. The only change is that I never catch up on my sleep these days.


Posted by: ozma | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 1:43 AM
horizontal rule
41

Time will do the trick. Be patient. In twenty years you will be unable to sleep past 8:00 whether you want to or not, due to low level pain in the back/shoulders/neck/gut/chest/knees (pick your favourite body part) which can only be addressed by getting up and moving around. Sleep while you can.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 2:44 AM
horizontal rule
42

The kid plan doesn't work if your kid is also a night owl. As PK has been since infancy. The only thing that gets us up before 11 am is the fucking school schedule. During the school year, it's a struggle to get PK into bed between 8 and 9, but it's necessary if he's going to make it through the next day. Me, I rely on long naps.

Now, during the summer? Fuck it. Up til 10 or 11 for the kid, midnight or so for me, and we all sleep until 11. Except when I have crap to write on an east coast deadline, in which case I drag my butt out of bed and rely on coffee, as I will be doing tomorrow morning.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 2:47 AM
horizontal rule
43

re: 41

Heh, I already have that. (Mildly) Torn meniscus in knee. Mostly doesn't bother me, but if I've trained quite hard the day before it has been known to wake me up with eyes watering from the pain and the only thing to do is get up.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 3:01 AM
horizontal rule
44

I've been getting up before 7am at least 6 days a week for the past 6 years [because I have to]. Nevertheless, that schedule is still completely wrong for me and I continue to wake up feeling tired every morning.

yes. this is me, as well.

when i was working from home, and could set my own hours, my sleep schedule was 2am to 9am (ish). i felt fine. i never used an alarm clock. now i'm doing 11pm to 6:30am, and every morning is a struggle.

i'm almost convinced that simply knowing that an alarm is going to wake me up is enough to make sure i don't sleep well.


Posted by: cleek | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 7:02 AM
horizontal rule
45

44. The other night I had a vivid dream at about 4:45 that the alarm clock had gone off and woken me up. So I woke up.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 7:07 AM
horizontal rule
46

I got up at ten to five 4-6 days a week for about 5-6 years total. It never bothered me.

I really hate the sound of the alarm, and once I got in my groove I quit using it. I'd automatically wake up at the right time, even on nights when I only could sleep 3-4 hours. My son has that power too.

Nowadays with no schedule I go to sleep easily but wake up after 3-5 hours and sometimes have trouble getting back to sleep. I'm not really rested, just sleepless. I seem to have a flat rhythm now, never being terribly tired but never being really rested and energetic either. Probably the worst thing about growing old.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 7:10 AM
horizontal rule
47

38,46: Yes, I am beginning to get that. I have always been a night owl who struggles with typical work hours (morning swim practices .... ugh, ugh, ugh) but what really irks me now is that when I do get to bed early (usually due to exhaustion) I find myself waking up between say 3:30 to 4:30 and unable to really go back to sleep. That would be fine if I actually was rested and ready for a full day, but no, by mid-afternoon I am in walking zombie mode.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 7:20 AM
horizontal rule
48

My current schedule pisses the hell out of me. I'm not working in the mornings, but I want to be. I go to bed around 10:30, then wake up at 4:30 or 5:00. (I wake up briefly at around 2:30). Then I sleep from 7 to 8:30 or 9. If I don't, the on Saturday, I just collapse around 3 PM. I have an appointment with a sleep medicine specialist.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 7:49 AM
horizontal rule
49

I have answered a similar question on AskMe (I've actually answered more than one, but the second answer links to that one). Since there are so many words there I'll give the short answer here: it's hard, it requires constant vigilance, and if you're productive and happy in the sleep schedule you have then it's not worth the effort.


Posted by: fedward | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 8:45 AM
horizontal rule
50

Thanks, everybody, for all the great answers. My main complaint is, as FL said at the end of the post, 'Going back and forth is awful'. I find I need to be up early about 1/3 of the time. Hate the going back and forth.

I've read that people in the US (don't know about elsewhere) don't get enough sleep. Some people have opined that it's unnatural to expect to get all the sleep you need in one big chunk, instead of spread out like other animals. But things aren't set up to accommodate cat naps.

To respond to some of the comments:

- Too old to have kids.

- Kittens help some, but they grow up to be lazy layabout adult cats who sleep all the time and then I'd need to get more kittens. I have 6 cats now, including 2 kittens. I think I have enough cats.

- I found some melatonin yesterday. I took 2 pills bc it was old and expired. Niiiiiice. Asleep by 12:30 and up by 8:30 in time for the appt. w/the nice man who's fixing our a/c.

- I'll think on if there might be something else going on. I feel fairly happy, not too too stressed, etc., but will consider it. My happy pills help tremendously in this area.

- Happy on the east coast and prefer not to move west; at least not at this time...maybe for retirement...but then I'll be old and getting up at 4 AM anyway.

- cerebrocrat: thanks for all that science! very illuminating

- meth: I prefer not to develop any new bad habits, but will keep this in mind as a last resort.

It's interesting to hear all the things people do to try and get a good sleep. I was really starting to wonder if something was wrong with me (I had chronic fatigue before so I'm always on the lookout for a recurrence) so I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who feels out of whack with the world's schedule.


Posted by: Annie | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 8:58 AM
horizontal rule
51

Annie, I'm coming into this late but another vote for the shifted schedule.

I do some of my best work after midnight (no interruptions). So I tend to start work at 10 or so and not fight to get up too early. I can do the early morning thing, but absent a really good reason, I won't. Fighting your body this way never made a lot of sense to me...


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 9:37 AM
horizontal rule
52

(I was 47.) Although it "works", the most annoying thing about the shifted schedule is that the world really is a great place very early in the morning and light is good (quiescent in the dark/active in the light is almost always more energy efficient as well).

For instance in my more bitter moments, I get pissed off by millions of dickhead Manhattanites/New Yorkers through the years building a "late in the day" culture even though NY is relatively early in its time zone, driven by their collective insecurities about their making the grade in terms sophistication and jadedness. We stipulate that you all are the fucking coolest ever, now do it to the Sun's schedule and save some energy you self-involved grownup middle-schoolers. (I know this tendency has deeper roots of course, and is not limited to New York.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 10:02 AM
horizontal rule
53

50: I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who feels out of whack with the world's schedule.

Ah, so your need to feel "normal" trumps the suffering of millions? (Just checking it certainly does for me.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 10:06 AM
horizontal rule
54

so your need to feel "normal"

this has always confused me.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 10:15 AM
horizontal rule
55

Summarizing -

Kids -
Pluses: Work well, easily made with tools found around the house, impossible to ignore.
Minuses: Grow up to become teens. Difficult to discard.

Kittens:
Pluses: Work well, cute as the dickens, impossible to ignore.
Minuses: Poop on bed. Grow up and must be replaced by new kittens. Limit to the number of cats around the house or you'll be known as the crazy cat person.

Since I write what I know I suggest the following:

Cockatiel:
Pluses: Works well, difficult to ignore, won't grow out of it.
Minuses: Easily banished to basement. Poops outside cage. May outlive you.


Posted by: Tripp the Crazed | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 11:10 AM
horizontal rule
56

soupbiscuit, it *does* feel like a fight when I have to get up early say, 2 days out of 7. I don't like the fight on those 2 days. And I feel like crap all day. And cranky. That's why I'm wondering if switching to another schedule would help avoid those crappy, cranky days.

As JP said, the quiet of the early morning and being around when the sun is coming up is kinda nice. Maybe I'll just end up replacing late nights with early mornings.

By 'normal' I meant that other nightly types also struggle when they need to switch schedules. I was beginning to think that the difficulty I have on those days that I have to get up quite a bit earlier might indicate a physical problem. In a way, it is a physical problem, but it's just that it's really, really hard and not that there's anything wrong with me.

Tripp, fortunately, none of our cats have ever crapped on the bed. Any errant poops are generally on the floor and close to the litter box. Although Kevin did step in one with his bare foot one morning in the hallway. I admit that I laughed when he told me about it later.


Posted by: Annie | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 11:22 AM
horizontal rule
57

The problem, JP, is that while the early morning is nice, the rest of the day sucks ass.

(Very early morning in NYC is great. It's like every disaster movie where the disaster has caused New York to be completely depopulated, but left the buildings standing.)


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 11:23 AM
horizontal rule
58

We both had auditions in New York the same weekend a couple years ago. As we were walking from the hotel early that Saturday morning I took issue with the claim that the city never sleeps. If it never sleeps, why were the streets deserted?


Posted by: fedward | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 11:43 AM
horizontal rule
59

It doesn't sleep; it hides.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 11:51 AM
horizontal rule
60

The problem, JP, is that while the early morning is nice, the rest of the day sucks ass.

Walt Someguy is a trashy, narrow-minded mediocrity.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 11:59 AM
horizontal rule
61

59: Her response at the time was that it was just resting its eyes.


Posted by: fedward | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 12:03 PM
horizontal rule
62

New York is a mere piker in this regard compared to the likes of Buenos Aries


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 12:05 PM
horizontal rule
63

Wow, that's some insightful literature. I am a trashy, narrow-minded mediocrity.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 12:19 PM
horizontal rule
64

(Very early morning in NYC is great. It's like every disaster movie where the disaster has caused New York to be completely depopulated, but left the buildings standing.)

I have a feeling it's especially like that, because I suspect that when you see those scenes in movies, the light is very early morning light.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 12:25 PM
horizontal rule
65

62: New York is a mere piker in this regard compared to the likes of Buenos Aries

Certainly, my relative provincialism within the US is compounded when extended to the "civilized" world. Years ago I knew someone from Argentina who tried running a restaurant in Pittsburgh, they could never get over the early times at which people expect dinner to be available here.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 12:29 PM
horizontal rule
66

Annie,

Well I was thinking kittens, who have pooped on my bed. Pretty runny too, if I recall correctly.

And yes, I myself have felt the cold ooze of animal scat pushing up between my toes. That is one reason why I try to reserve my cuss words. For when I really need them.

The Davenport household loves animals and I suspect they may help keep down the allergies so we've got the following - three dogs, a cat, a bird, a piranha, and a horse. Mrs D dislikes rodents and reptiles so despite the pleadings of the sprog those have always been out.

The piranha is mine from before the marriage. Those suckers are near unkillable so I take care of him now out of grudging respect. He's over 27 now. I have no idea how long he'll live.


Posted by: Tripp the Crazed | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 12:58 PM
horizontal rule
67

fedward,

We both had auditions in New York

Interesting. Care to dish? I won't make fun. I'm envious.


Posted by: Tripp the Crazed | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 1:00 PM
horizontal rule
68

"OK, now Tripplets, whose turn is it to feed the mouse to the piranha this week?"


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 1:02 PM
horizontal rule
69

67: I can talk about mine more than hers, due to internet identity constraints. We were both there for Equity open calls, just about the worst way to get yourself hired. At hers they were looking for a type and she wasn't it, so after a few hours waiting in line she went in with a lineup and basically got an immediate "thank you." I was auditioning for the touring show of "The Rat Pack." I'm pretty sure I wasn't what they were looking for, but the guys behind the table actually seemed to relax and enjoy my 16 bars, which was good enough for me.


Posted by: fedward | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 1:18 PM
horizontal rule
70

re: 57 and 64

London is like that, too. Walking across London in the very early hours of the morning you get that whole '28 Days Later' feel [also filmed very early in the morning].


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 1:27 PM
horizontal rule
71

68: Quads actually. And we use goldfish. They make his tummy nice and orange.

The little gold dust he poops out looks nice on the bottom of the tank too.

Circle of life baybee!

Yesterday I had to take care of a burrow of newborn bunnies. Stupid rabbits. Stupid stupid rabbits. I really don't like them.

I've got a live trap so I'll happily drive them to anyone's yard who wants them.


Posted by: Tripp the Crazed | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 1:38 PM
horizontal rule
72

fedward,

Very cool. So you're equity which says something right there.

If I was better looking and a better actor and a 'type' and had connections I'd be in LA. So I envy you.

Do you know Joe Drymala? He used to comment here. I miss him. When I was Lockstock in "Urinetown" he hooked me up with the guy who originated the part on Broadway and got my program signed. That meant a lot to me.


Posted by: Tripp the Crazed | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 1:42 PM
horizontal rule
73

I have bunnies nesting in my wildflower garden. If I had a weasel I'd set him loose. A neighbor says he saw 7 bunnies in my yard one morning all at the same time. I believe him, though the most I've seen at once is 4.

My beloved grandnephew adores cute little animals, but bunnies are starting to bore him.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 1:42 PM
horizontal rule
74

72: She's Equity, I'm not. I'd probably be AGMA if I hadn't let my fifteen years of voice lessons sort of go to waste. I didn't recognize that my voice teacher was hurting instead of helping until it was too late. I keep thinking I'll get back into it, though.

I don't know Joe Drymala. I probably know people who know him, though.


Posted by: fedward | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 1:48 PM
horizontal rule
75

People who adore rabbits never tended a garden.

There was a neighbor cat that prowled and I loved that but some do-gooder bird-lover made them keep the cat indoors because it liked their bird feeder and scared the birds away. Ever since then the rabbits keep trying to make a burrow in my hill even though it is fenced in with *dogs*!

A live trap baited with apple works well but still I'm trying to bail out the ocean with a teaspoon.


Posted by: Tripp the Crazed | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 1:50 PM
horizontal rule
76

Joe's one of the "good guys" in my opinion. We wanted to debut a couple of his shows here but he was still trying for Broadway. I wish him the best.


Posted by: Tripp the Crazed | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 1:52 PM
horizontal rule
77

75: One must differentiate between indoor rabbits and outdoor rabbits. The former are adorable, the latter are edible. Along with Bambi.

Secret to a sleep-in schedule after acquiring babies: Import them from East Asia. Worked for me.

Secret to getting up at 7AM in a full adrenaline rush: Have a construction crew work loudly, with nailguns, on the building just off one's bedroom window. Makes me wonder how many of them I could pick off before someone in the neighbourhood realised what gunshots sound like and called the police.


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 3:37 PM
horizontal rule
78

Indoor rabbits are weak and slow-witted. Outdoor rabbits are adorable (and hungry). I know plenty of people who are dedicated gardeners and still extremely fond of rabbits, but I admit that it takes a very well ingrained rabbit love to survive the experience.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:14 PM
horizontal rule
79

I've started looking at rabbits and thinking "would that still be cute if I was looking at a lawn with a dozen of them?" no, the fact that usually only one adult rabbit is seen at a time is necessary for them to be cute.

therefore I am scared to live in Australia.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:19 PM
horizontal rule
80

I've started looking at rabbits and thinking "would that still be cute if I was looking at a lawn with a dozen of them?" no, the fact that usually only one adult rabbit is seen at a time is necessary for them to be cute.

therefore I am scared to live in Australia.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:20 PM
horizontal rule
81

Also, comments about rabbits are better when there is only one of them at a time.

(sigh)


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:20 PM
horizontal rule
82

no, the fact that usually only one adult rabbit is seen at a time is necessary for them to be cute.

You say the words, but they make no sense to me!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:22 PM
horizontal rule
83

Rabbits are cute and nice to have in the yard, haters. That said, both outdoor and indoor rabbits are edible.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:26 PM
horizontal rule
84

Tripp is Mr MacGregor!

(CA would probably claim that Mr MacGregor is a racist anti-Scot stereotype.)


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:32 PM
horizontal rule
85

A friend of mine has the last name of Abitz. Before taking on her married name, my friend's mom had always wanted to name a son "Peter". Oh well.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:35 PM
horizontal rule
86

Am I the only one who as a young child took very little joy in Peter Rabbit and similar stories. My God, it described a youngster in an absolute life and death struggle!

(But f I got too upset my Mom would come over and nuzzle me.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:40 PM
horizontal rule
87

You must have loved Watership Down, JP


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:41 PM
horizontal rule
88

I did like Watership Down, but now I don't think that I like rabbits much.

I totally don't understand the appeal of any pet that needs to live in a cage. That includes, gerbils, mice and hamsters.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:45 PM
horizontal rule
89

I take that back somewhat. I can appreciate birds even if they can't cuddle.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:46 PM
horizontal rule
90

Birds, to me, are the opposite of a pet. A octopus seems more petlike than a parakeet.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:51 PM
horizontal rule
91

Well, no, you know, probably something like the Horseshoe Nebula is closer to being the opposite of a pet. Where's Ben when you need him?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:52 PM
horizontal rule
92

91: it's a pet to some entity. The opposite of a pet is a man-eating robot.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:54 PM
horizontal rule
93

Hm, good point. Maybe a hive of intangible, man-eating robots?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:57 PM
horizontal rule
94

93: the incorporeal man-eating robot nebula.

Comity.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:58 PM
horizontal rule
95

92: I wish my AIBO had known that.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:59 PM
horizontal rule
96

A hive of intangible colorless green furiously-sleeping man-eating robots?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 4:59 PM
horizontal rule
97

95: well you should have known not to let it develop a taste for blood.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 5:00 PM
horizontal rule
98

92: Behold, the Horseshoe Nebula, Herald Wookums of Galactus!*

* Not really. His pet is a man-eating robot! See FF #49, True Believers!


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 5:04 PM
horizontal rule
99

Is that really a pet? More of a beast of burden, sez me.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 5:05 PM
horizontal rule
100

97: All I did was plug it in after midnight, and it developed a taste for blood all on its own.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 5:05 PM
horizontal rule
101

98: (a) I see no mention of its diet but (b) SO AWESOME. I love Jack Kirby.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 5:06 PM
horizontal rule
102

Sifu needs to purchase the four-volume blow-your-mind JACK KIRBY FOURTH WORLD OMNIBUS. (Blume needs to purchase Devil Dinosaur.)


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 5:11 PM
horizontal rule
103

Actually I need more ROM: Space Knight because the MITT ROM-NEE, SPACE KNIGHT! connection just completely cracks me up whenever I think of it.

Also, snarkout is working for The Invincible Super Blog. Spread the word!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 5:12 PM
horizontal rule
104

100: For God's sake, don't get it wet.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07- 2-08 5:13 PM
horizontal rule
105

Speaking from similar experience, I say, and I can not emphasize this too much: DO NOT CHANGE. NO NO NO. SLEEP LATE AS LONG AS YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH IT. TRY TO GET AWAY WITH IT FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. YOU'LL NEVER, EVER, GET USED TO WAKING UP TOO EARLY.


Posted by: W. Kiernan | Link to this comment | 07- 3-08 7:54 AM
horizontal rule
106

Speaking of the ISB, it turns out his recommendation of Dr. McNinja was spot on.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 07- 3-08 9:02 AM
horizontal rule
107

I definatly have this. the last year or so i've been much less night-owly. what helped:

Melatonin, 2 hours before desired bedtime.

meditation, 30min before bedtime

A whole lots of lamps with superwatt bulbs in my bedroom, all plugged into a poweroutlet timer so they all turn on 20min before my alarms go off.

some ritalin in the morning helps too, but that might be harder to procure and less helpful if you're not needing it.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 07- 3-08 2:26 PM
horizontal rule
108

Yoyo! I was missing you. For a while I thought you were read, but then naahh.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 07- 3-08 2:30 PM
horizontal rule
109

oh hey guys. i got a job and all. sometimes i surf there, i maybe should post again.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 07- 4-08 1:34 AM
horizontal rule