Re: Car Cuisine

1

Sandwiches are the way to go, given that you will have one or no hands free. That said, the filling has to be both easy to bite through, and not inclined to fall out all over you, which is a tough call. Do you care if it approximates to the traditionally breakfasty, because if so, you may have painted yourself into a corner.

Alternatively, fruit. Or danish. Depends if you care about healthy.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:06 AM
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Cigarettes!

Oh wait, "healthy".


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:07 AM
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Oh, you do care about healthy. Apples don't drip, or bananas. Pears do more than you'd think, and so do most other fruit. Make some sandwiches (cheese and lettuce?) the night before.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:10 AM
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If you don't have hangups about carbs, plain whole grain bread is a good option. If you routinely purchase good swipple artisanal bread, a fresh slice or two makes a lovely snack. Add butter and jam if you like. Or live on the edge and put almond butter or cashew butter on it.

Prefer a protein-based snack? Try sliced deli meats, rolled up into a convenient cigar. The variety is effectively endless, it keeps well in the fridge, and the prep time is essentially zero. Also, hard boiled eggs. Just be sure to peel them before you get behind the wheel.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:18 AM
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By "in the car" do you mean "while driving"? I had to do that for a while once and I found that it was a bad habit for me. Having to concentrate on driving meant I would be unmindful of what or how much I was eating, and could too easily ended up just shoveling food into my gob while barely tasting it. Even with decent food (e.g., a deli-type wrap with good ingredients), it was just too easy to snarf it without noticing, eat too much, and feel hungry again way too quickly.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:19 AM
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A hard boiled egg sandwich garnished with almond butter and cigarettes sounds lovely, actually.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:19 AM
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5: This rings true to me, and sounds consistent with the French Women Don't Get Fat theory of nutrition. When I lived in Paris, if I ever saw a person eating while walking, it was inevitably an American or a Brit.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:22 AM
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Pretty much any meal you like to eat can be made neat and handy for the car with the aid of a blender and a recycled Big Gulp cup.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:23 AM
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I love that Goneril sees the problem as being distracted from his food rather than his driving.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:23 AM
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A hard boiled egg sandwich garnished with almond butter and cigarettes sounds lovely, actually.

Doing "Wake & Bake" again, are we Sifu?



Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:23 AM
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8. Much wisdom here. Also, lassi.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:24 AM
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Make your own bread. Use good quality wholemeal flour, fortified with oats and/or soy or gram flour. You can work some grated cheese into the dough for extra protein and flavour.

When the dough is riz, instead of making it into loaves as the recipe probably sez, take a nice cooked sausage (of course of good quality - I use Wicken Fen - ) and wrap the dough round into a long roll with a sausage filling. The dough should completely seal in the hot sausage.

Bake in the oven till the bread's done. Cool on a rack, and freeze.

Prep time - maybe an hour or two every couple of weeks, stretched over an evening.

Prep time the day you eat it - zero. Just take one out of the freezer, put it into a paper bag or a lunch boz, and plan on eating it an hour or two later.


Posted by: Jesurgislac | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:27 AM
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||

The Louisiana legislature has (at long last!) designated an official cocktail of New Orleans . . . the sazerac!

How is it that W-lfs-n hasn't posted this yet?

|>


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:29 AM
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You could replace the sausage in Jesurgislac's recipe with something even more healthy and delicious, like pork rinds!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:30 AM
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Pretty much any meal you like to eat can be made neat and handy for the car with the aid of a blender and a recycled Big Gulp cup.

Many years ago, my uncle was involved in a freak accident that left him with his jaw wired shut for several months. During this time, he had to be nourished exlusively by this method. He was also an incorrigible user of chewing tobacco (a habit that is just as addictive as smoking), so he improvised a method of grinding his Beechnut into a soft paste that he could stuff between his teeth and gums.

When he was still in the hospital being fed through a nasal tube, a group of local musicians went to visit him and brought along their instruments to cheer him up. One of them smuggled a can of beer into the hospital room in his banjo case. A nurse walked into the room to find a bluegrass band playing and one of the musicians pouring beer into my uncle's stomach through his feeding tube. She did a Sergeant Schultz and walked out the door.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:33 AM
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One problem with all of our ideas so far is that they don't leave two hands free for driving. To solve this, take the lid off a container of cottage cheese and poke a hole in it large enough to insert one of those big straws they use for boba tea. Then, sprinkle some raisins in the container, reattach the lid, and tape the whole contraption to your head.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:37 AM
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I'm not at all wedded to traditional breakfast food.

I do know what you mean about the distraction and not eating mindfully. That's one of the reasons that healthy and portion controlled is important to me.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:39 AM
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Pitas? Burritos? Dumplings? Empewhatevers? But since I don't consider breads or grains very healthy, I am not familar with what you can buy frozen or whatever.

4.2 is more my style. We also buy grapes in large containers, and have this neat tool that will section apples. Lots of cheddar, cut into oz squares. Celery.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:39 AM
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And I try to eat only at red lights.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:41 AM
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And I try to eat only at red lights.

Then when do you apply your cosmetics?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:47 AM
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Man, that old Ogged breakfast thread just drives home what a pain in the ass making and eating breakfast is every day.

I will say that Jesurgislac's idea in 12 is freaking genius. I tried to do something similar by wrapping sausage in bagel dough to make a frou-frou bagel dog, and the results were tasty but not sublime.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 7:17 AM
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I grew fond of liquid yoghurt drinks when I lived in Germany. There, they are packaged in single-shot containers that look like bullets.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 7:24 AM
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Good thread! I used to do those meal replacement shake things -- throw some milk and a scoop of powder in a cup, zap it with the stick blender, and instant nutrition! Jesurgislac's sausage bread sounds much tastier, though.

Also, while I can't deny that cigarettes make a satisfying meal replacement, they don't meet the "in the car" criteria. Smoking in the car is just gross.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 7:24 AM
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liquid yoghurt drinks

Is that anything like Gogurt?


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 7:26 AM
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liquid yoghurt drinks

Also available in the U.S., but they tend to have a lot of sugar calories. Also, you can get yoghurt in squeeze tubes, which can also be frozen.

In Switzerland they sell a beverage made from the whey left over after the curds are squeezed out of milk in the cheesemaking process. The whey is sweetened and flavored with fruit flavors. It is a tad tangy, but delicious and incredibly refreshing after exercise.

Germany also has the best on-the-go food I know of: the Kaesestange, a long twisted breadstick made with alkali-treated dough (like a pretzel) and topped with melted, hardened Emmentaler.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 7:41 AM
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Smoking in the car is just gross.

You roll down the windows. I love smoking at 80 mph.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 7:43 AM
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Also available in the U.S., but they tend to have a lot of sugar calories.

Which is why you should make your own lassi. Delicious, sweet or salt. Time: 15 seconds. Drink through a straw from a covered cup.

NB. Do not include bhang if you are going to drive.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 7:50 AM
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Another liquid option would be those pre-packaged smoothies, like the ones Naked Juice makes.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 7:52 AM
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Knecht was kidding in 20, but if you'd like to run across Becks's field of vision in a gorilla suit red lights are the time to do it.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 7:54 AM
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Prepackaged liquid yogurt drinks are nasty. But you can make a good smoothie with yogurt, fresh fruit, and if you're worried about such things, a little protein powder or flaxseed oil.

But how fast is 'extremely fast'?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 7:57 AM
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(1) Really, don't do this. You'd be better skipping the meal than eating like this.

(2) If you insist, this is really good stuff that more than satisfies all your criteria. (But it's pricey.) Requires a blender and a an apple or banana, so probably works better for breakfast than mid-afternoon snack.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 7:59 AM
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28, etc. Keep in mind though that liquid calories are especially dangerous from a portion-control standpoint. It is easier to overconsume liquid calories while distracted than solid calories. Also, it takes longer for the feeling of satiation to set in. And those pre-packaged smoothies are pretty calorie-dense, which is great if you're looking for a meal replacement to keep you from starving, but not so great is you're trying to watch your calories.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:00 AM
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I eat a banana with salty peanut butter for breakfast when I'm in a rush. Of course, I'll eat scrambled eggs with stir-fried spaghetti and salsa when I'm not.

not relevant


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:02 AM
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But how fast is 'extremely fast'?

The trouble with anything that requires a blender to make is that you have to wash the blender. By the time you factor in the time to shop for fresh ingredients and the cleanup time, the personal energy consumed by the "logistical tail" begins to overwhelm the actual prep time.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:03 AM
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Jumping off of Jesurgislac's suggestion, if you'd like something healthier than a sausage, you could make empanadas ahead of time and freeze them, then microwave them when it's time to go. I've never done it, but here is a suggestion for how to do it with pie crust. You could use whole wheat pie crust to make the outside healthier, and you could buy any sort of healthy, prepackaged thing you liked for the filling (you could buy those prepared Indian meals and make fusion cuisine), or quickly saute up some large quantity of chicken breast, tofu, and/or or vegetables. Or if you want some, you could use preprepared biscuit dough.


Posted by: Cynique | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:04 AM
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The trouble with anything that requires a blender to make is that you have to wash the blender.

By "wash", do you mean "take 115 seconds to thoroughly rinse"? Because yeah, you have to do that.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:05 AM
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15 seconds, not 115. Although even the latter shouldn't be an impossible chore.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:06 AM
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If you try to take Brock's advice really can't take the hunger, you could gnaw on your own arm.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:07 AM
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Of course, if you'd really like to eat a real meal, at a normal pace, while in the car, you could hire a driver.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:09 AM
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Or in extremis, pick your nose.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:09 AM
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35: Microwaving dough of any kind is non-swipple. And pie crust definitely fails the "good for you" test.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:14 AM
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Smoking in the car is just gross.

Wow, I can so remember the nights I felt I was sitting inside a bong.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:19 AM
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Wow, I can so remember the nights I felt I was sitting inside a bong.

Really? How? I mean I have vague impressions, flashes of imagery, but you actually remember?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:20 AM
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Speaking of going places and eating, the Ruprechts will be hosting a Swipple Suburban Meetup on September 6 in Posh Deep Blue Suburb.

Will there be fresh organic arugula from the family garden? Will there be home-baked bread? Will there be a standmixer? Will there be a moderately expensive, yet somehow understated car in the driveway? Will there be a low-paid brown-skinned female taking care of adorable white children? Come and see for yourself!

If you think you might attend, send me an email at kn****_ru******@yahoo.com


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:21 AM
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32: The other problem is (at least in my experience) that liquid calories aren't as filling, so one is hungry about 10 minutes later.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:22 AM
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Will we all be spending the night in Knecht's house?


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:23 AM
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I agree with Cala. I've tried the shakes, but I get so hungry shortly thereafter.

Oatmeal at your destination is a much better solution.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:25 AM
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It's too bad they don't sell meatballs sized to fit those pop-ball guns. That'd be perfect.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:26 AM
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Like those little tiny plastic pellet guns?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:28 AM
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Ooh you could mount one of these on the dash, put the meatball in it the night before, and lock it in position with a string (with a slip knot in the middle) tied to the shifter. Hop in the car in the morning, put in gear, the not slips, and pop! The meatball goes right in your mouth.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:29 AM
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49: no, no. The ones that shoot large-ish plastic balls.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:30 AM
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48: Excellent idea! She could cook up a bunch of italian sausage each week, crumbled into balls of a little under 1 cm in diameter. Then each morning, throw some melted mozzarella and marinara sauce into a blender, pour it into a covered cup over some of the cooked sausage balls, pop in a boba tea straw, and voila! Pizza smoothie!


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:31 AM
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Apparently what I'm thinking of is a burp gun.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:33 AM
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51: Bummer. There is not much more fun than, uh, running around your mother-in-law's backyard spraying your husband with 6mm plastic pellets (seriously, I haven't been that giddy in years), but adding meatballs could conceivably make it better.

Becks, are you a carb or protein person when it comes to breakfast and snacks?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:35 AM
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that liquid calories aren't as filling, so one is hungry about 10 minutes later.

I think that is a carbohydrate problem. One of the principles of high-protein diets is that carbohydrates are appetite-enhancing.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:37 AM
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54: I dunno, I think shooting meatballs out of a burp gun would be pretty fun, too.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:38 AM
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The trouble with anything that requires a blender to make is that you have to wash the blender.

(1) put blender in sink.
(2) rinse top of blender, washing crud down into bottom of blender
(3) when the falling level of rinsed blender top meets rising level of water in bottom of blender, stop, leave blender as is.
(4) When you next need the blender, dump out water, give it a quick rinse, and you're in business.

The great advantage of this method is that the dirty water provides an excellent breeding ground for bacteria, providing your immune system with the constant challenges needed to maintain optimum performance.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:39 AM
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the empanadas resemble our khuushuurs
a very convenient thing to eat outdoors, the filling can be anything, mostly meat of course, but we can put fried rice or mashed potatoes with other ingredients added in too
just it's too much work, for me of course i like to eat, not cook and tend to eat too many at once
my sister does it in 20 min
to make dough and fry


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:42 AM
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Kohlrabi


Posted by: tiny emperor | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:43 AM
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Monday morning, hang several pieces of jerky from the roof of the car, like fly strips. When you get hungry, simply look up and bite one.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:46 AM
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59. So?


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:46 AM
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It really is difficult to get anything handy to eat other than fruit or sandwiches. You could try making a batch of savoury breakfast muffins every so often, and bringing a couple with you to eat in the car.


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:49 AM
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Damn those egg muffins look kind of awesome.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:54 AM
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Rice balls.


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 8:56 AM
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Also, hard boiled eggs. Just be sure to peel them before you get behind the wheel.

Umm, surely you meant hard cooked eggs. My point, though, is that peeling the eggs is optional. Really.

We Americans seem to carry around the vestiges of youth when even the crust on bread was considered yucky. It is time we grew up.

Seriously. Open your mind and try these food items you normally throw out: Egg shells (with the egg, not without. Without would be silly.) Watermelon seeds. Yes, not just the white ones. The brown ones have a nice nutty flavor and won't kill you like apple seeds will. Orange peel. The white part. Then the orange part. An acquired taste, to be sure, but anyone who can learn to eat hot peppers can tolerate a little zest. Kiwi peel. Chicken-bone marrow and soft nobby ends. Popsicle sticks. Good for gnawing. Lollipop sticks. It is just rolled paper!

Obviously we do not want to risk food poisoning, so if you are eating skins and rinds then wash them first.


Posted by: Tripp the Crazed | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:01 AM
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Mmm, compost.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:04 AM
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Apple seeds won't kill you unless you eat like a cupful of them.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:04 AM
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||
I'd just like to note that the customs and border patrol agency blows dead goats.
|>


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:07 AM
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But egg shells? You know what else is yummy? Ceramic teacups!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:07 AM
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69: You know what else is yummy? Ceramic teacups!

Not to mention rust!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:09 AM
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My point, though, is that peeling the eggs is optional. Really.

I'm not sure you'd want to apply this theory to industrially produced eggs. Otoh, I'm not sure you'd want to eat them anyway.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:09 AM
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More on topic: Becks, that sounds like it really sucks. I (literally) don't understand how people put up with this stuff for any amount of time. Sorry I don't have any new car eating ideas.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:11 AM
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I'm not sure you'd want to apply this theory to industrially produced eggs.

Oh, right, sure. I meant eggs that come from a chicken's butt. Not from a test tube.

You know why chickens don't piss. Cause they eat with their pecker!


Posted by: Tripp the Crazed | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:13 AM
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68: Yup.

Small fruits and berries could go in a cup and then in the cupholder.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:14 AM
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I had about a 30 mile commute for a couple years that I didn't mind so much. I liked my car, it was a reverse commute, it was mostly on the highway. It sucked when I had to work late, though. When you're at work until 7 or 8 you really don't want to have to spend 45 minutes in the car on the way home.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:15 AM
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But egg shells? You know what else is yummy? Ceramic teacups!

The brown eggs are chocolate. I learned that in England. Where the panty-waist socialists get freaking anesthesia for vasectomies and then have the nerve to look down on we manly Americans who had to save their butts in WWII.


Posted by: Tripp the Crazed | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:16 AM
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73: No. It's not the cloaca that's the problem, it's the living conditions. (that, and tasteless eggs, but that's a separate, if related, problem)


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:16 AM
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on wethe manly Americans Russians who had to save their butts in WWII.

fixed that for you


Posted by: hystorical | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:18 AM
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This discussion reminds me of the scene in the movie Holy Man in which Dan Marino has a cameo as a pitchman for a home shopping channel product that allows you to put your food inside a metal container, bolt it to the crankcase of your car, and enjoy at the end of your journey a full meal cooked by the heat of the engine block.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:18 AM
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I knew a guy who would occasionally cook on his decker's exhaust pipes. Odd guy.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:21 AM
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I'm gonna throw in with the "you must change your life, not your menu" faction.

But I don't actually have a job, so it's easy for me to say.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:21 AM
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79: not made up.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:21 AM
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Back on topic, I've learned there really is only one thing one can eat in the car while driving without making a messy car. Hot pockets. There. I've said it. Faux pastry containing glue to hold it together. Able to retain mouth-searing heat for hours? Genius.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:21 AM
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||

Blume, currently travelling towards this country, agrees with the consensus on Customs and Border Patrol, who apparently are having trouble figuring out that she doesn't live in Germany.

|>


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:22 AM
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enjoy at the end of your journey a full meal cooked by the heat of the engine block.

According to my father, when he was in college, he drove everywhere with a can of soup on his engine block.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:23 AM
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hystorical,

fixed that for you

Sorry dude, the Commie Russians saved the surrender monkey French and look how that turned out.

Reagan took care of the Pinko commie fags later.

Look it up.


Posted by: Tripp the Crazed | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:25 AM
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85: Did he ever take it off and eat it?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:25 AM
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85: Populuxe's father is Grandpa Simpson?


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:25 AM
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brown eggs are chocolate local eggs, and local eggs are fresh.


Posted by: Jl | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:26 AM
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84: Their dicking about and lack of clear information just cost us a grand or more. But I'm not bitter.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:26 AM
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#87. Only when he wanted to impress a date.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:27 AM
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According to my father, when he was in college, he drove everywhere with a can of soup on his engine block.

What frat was that? All we did was make our pledges wear beanies.

Yesterday, (true story) I left a can of pop in my car with the windows closed and that sucker was nearly hot tea when I opened it the end of the day. Really.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:28 AM
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Really, soup, don't give us that "I'm not bitter" line. You sound like I could use you to flavor my next dozen batches of homebrew. Good thing, too, hops got really expensive.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:28 AM
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Sorry dude, tThe Commie Russians saved the surrender monkey French and won the European war. But look how that turned out.

as you say, look it up.


Posted by: hystorical | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:29 AM
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Really. Oy, I need some new intensifiers.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:29 AM
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Wouldn't it be cool if there was a Customs & Border Protection Benevolent Society that would call you every year around Christmas asking for money and you would send them a $25 donation and get a "Support Your Local CBP" sticker that you could put on your passport or suitcase so they'd let you go through without searching you?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:29 AM
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Umm, surely you meant hard cooked eggs

Are you saying that your dialect is too refined and delicate to accommodate "hard boiled"?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:29 AM
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93: nobody likes bitter soup. wait, that's not true at all!


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:29 AM
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Try "gevalt"?


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:29 AM
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You're being baited, h.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:30 AM
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< /troll >


Posted by: hystorical | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:31 AM
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96: yes. yes it would.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:31 AM
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(100 → 94)


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:32 AM
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97: He's eating the damned eggshells, so who knows.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:32 AM
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Are you saying that your dialect is too refined and delicate emaciated to accommodate "hard boiled"?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:33 AM
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103: I suspect that was reflexive.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:33 AM
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Hard Boiled.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:35 AM
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Jl,

brown eggs are chocolate local eggs, and local eggs are fresh.

Is that what they tell you? Where do you live Cletus, Dogpatch? Climb outta the holler and take a look around now and then. Say it with me - triethylamine. Come on. I know it is hard with only one tooth but come on.


Posted by: Tripp the Crazed | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:35 AM
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You're being baited

And not even very well. Doesn't anyone take pride in their work anymore?


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:35 AM
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||

Forget rice paddy art, this is awesome.

|>


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:37 AM
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And not even very well. Doesn't anyone take pride in their work anymore?

Au contraire mon frere. Over-cooking (aka boiling) an egg damages the proteins. It also makes the green sphere around the yolk, but that doesn't really hurt anything.

One must simmer the egg not boil it.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:39 AM
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When I had a commute like Tweety's (30-mile reverse commute) I had a lot of Jamba Juice -- 16 oz no-sugar-added ones, and I'd add a protein or fiber boost to make it a little less carbtastic. (That and more Starbucks egg-and-turkey-bacon sandwiches than were really good for me.) I could also get away with breakfast at my desk, so I had instant oatmeal, yogurt, toaster waffles and TJ's egg cups in the office fridge.

If you have a little time to make it homestyle -- hard-boiled eggs, Ogged's chicken salad or a sausage in pita, or cut the pita in half and make up a mini lavosh roll with hummus and cucumber. PBJ in pita roll-ups, if you want to do it 3rd-grade style. Bananas or pre-cut fruit. Bake up a mess of muffins on the weekends and throw them in the freezer. (The Moosewood low-fat cookbook has a great cheese and dill dinner muffin that's not too crumbly.)

Also hugely important for not mindlessly piehole-stuffing: water. Get the biggest water bottle that can fit in your cupholder and drink before, during and after your snack.

And for the love of God, don't eat the orange peel unless your orange is SWPL-certified organic. That shit's LOADED with pesticides.


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:40 AM
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If you're making hard boiled eggs, the trick is to put them in cold water, bring the water up to the boil, but as soon as it starts to boil, take the eggs off the heat.

Cover pan.

Wait ten minutes.

Done, and the yolks will be just fully set. Not dry and crumbly.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:41 AM
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97: He's eating the damned eggshells, so who knows.

Geez, American youth, I tell you. Never been really hungry a day in their life. Think opening a can and warming something up is cooking. What is the world coming to?


Posted by: Tripp the Crazed | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:42 AM
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113: ttaM, Yes, exactly. Thank you.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:44 AM
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If you're making hard boiled eggs, the trick is to put them in cold water, bring the water up to the boil, but as soon as it starts to boil, take the eggs off the heat.

Also, if you are going to make a bunch of eggs you can actually bake them in the shell. Of course I don't have the temps or time handy so you will have to look it up.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:44 AM
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Tweety, if Blume is refused reentry, will you join her in Germany?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:46 AM
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116: 156° fahrenheit for however long you want, allegedly.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:47 AM
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117: we've mutually agreed to find a small country we can take over and rule as despots.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:48 AM
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116: There's a traditional Jewish recipe for slow baking overnight in a cooling oven (no flames), but I can't remember the name. Yummy!


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:52 AM
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Magpie,

And for the love of God, don't eat the orange peel unless your orange is SWPL-certified organic. That shit's LOADED with pesticides.

Absolutely. And if you ever spill some salt (and OF COURSE I mean sea salt cause the other kind is too horrible to mention) you must immediately pick up some with your right hand (never the left hand, this is VERY important) and toss it over your left shoulder saying three times "devil get away from me."

I'm glad you brought this up Magpie. Remember, folks, your safety is our first concern.


Posted by: Tripp the Crazed | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:54 AM
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Andorra has been leaderless for centuries. They need a strong hand, which with all due respect would presumably be Blume's.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:56 AM
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Where do you live

If you recognized the reference, you wouldn't need to ask.


Posted by: JL | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:56 AM
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113: ttaM, Yes, exactly. Thank you.

The final step is to find a person who says, "You see? These aren't 'hard boiled' at all," and crack one of the eggs on his forehead.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:56 AM
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116, 120: FX Cuisine, which ben has linked here before, has this recipe for slow-roasted eggs. I've tried it -- it's pretty good, but a little odd.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:57 AM
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The SWPL-certified part was tongue-in-cheek, but the gist of my comment wasn't. Troll.


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:59 AM
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That's how I make hard-boiled eggs, though I usually let it boil for about a minute before turning off the heat.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 9:59 AM
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FX Cuisine, which ben has linked here before, has this recipe for slow-roasted eggs. I've tried it -- it's pretty good, but a little odd

When I did it they didn't roast that long and didn't take on that brown color. Came out pretty much like a hard boiled egg. The yolk tends to have a slightly creamier texture than if actually boiled, but tastes the same.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:01 AM
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Sifu,

We've mutually agreed to find a small country we can take over and rule as despots.

That sounds lovely. May I serve as your loyal adviser? Will you allow polygamy?


Posted by: Tripp the Crazed | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:03 AM
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Troll.

didn't we used to have a better class oftroll's who tried a bit?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:07 AM
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Magpie,

The SWPL-certified part was tongue-in-cheek, but the gist of my comment wasn't. Troll.

Name calling? Really? I would have thought it would have taken a bit longer before you sunk to that level but oh well.

Hey, you may have whatever religion you want, that's cool. Really. Food superstitions have ancient roots, and for good reason. Just don't pawn your superstitions off on me.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:07 AM
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re: 131

Is your claim that fruit peel doesn't contain pesticide residue?


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:09 AM
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130: didn't we used to have a better class oftroll's who tried a bit?

The grammar pedantry's gone downhill, I can tell you that much.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:10 AM
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didn't we used to have a better class oftroll's who tried a bit?

Aw, soup, give heckle and jeckle a break. She's new. She has some potential. Don't be so harsh.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:10 AM
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On baking eggs.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:12 AM
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Is your claim that fruit peel doesn't contain pesticide residue?

Aww, ttaM, c'mon. You know better than that. Fruit peel contains atoms from your dead ancestors for goodness sake.

You're talking to a guy who has DDT in his fatty tissue. Once you get down to measuring things in the parts per billion range you are getting past science and into oogie-boogie land.

Oooh, residue - some of this, some of that. Dosage like, you know, matters.

Unless people are afraid. Then it is back to throwing the salt over the shoulder and casting off demons. Better safe than sorry and all that stuff.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:14 AM
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The relevant Discover Magazine article.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:18 AM
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Once you get down to measuring things in the parts per billion range you are getting past science and into oogie-boogie land.

Oooh, residue - some of this, some of that. Dosage like, you know, matters.

And that would be why the US, for example, sets Maximum Residue Limits?

I can't say it particular bothers me, but the idea that pesticide residues might possibly be a problem isn't oogie-boogie land stuff.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:19 AM
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Baked eggs in maple toast cups. Probably a little too messy for Becks' purposes.

Before you follow Brock's advice in this or any food thread, remind yourself that last time we checked he was approaching the thinness of a human hair.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:22 AM
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ttaM,

Sometimes "might" and "possibly" lead to fear which leads to superstitions. "If" is also a pretty powerful word in that respect too.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:25 AM
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I see Magpie mentioned pita bread for sandwich-y things, and I second the recommendation for that. It opens up the range of things you can use as fillings, because anything a little juicy will just soak into the bread.


Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:25 AM
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When eating Tripp, dispose of the fat and the organ meats first because that's where the toxins collect. It is not recommended that pregnant women, nursing mothers, or children under the age of ten eat Tripp, but for adults one Tripp meal a month is probably acceptable.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:27 AM
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Sometimes "might" and "possibly" lead to fear which leads to superstitions.

You know what else does? "Sometimes." Best to stick only with absolute declarative statements.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:27 AM
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139's recipe is a definition of "healthy" that I can get behind.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:28 AM
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I can't say it particular bothers me, but the idea that pesticide residues might possibly be a problem isn't oogie-boogie land stuff.

This is true. Here one must also be aware that the FDA is a highly politicized agency, so doesn't necessarily track the best science very well. That being said, I don't know of a particular problem with oranges. There have been irregular problems with chicken egg shell (salmonella, iirc.) which is why I mentioned it. There are other areas where there are solidly established problems in some stocks (mercury in some fish, for example) which some people like to blow off as `oogie-boogie land stuff' too, so mileage varies.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:29 AM
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Slightly-OT, slightly on-T: I'm going to do a pushup challenge. Anybody wanna be my imaginary internet pushup buddy? Email me. We will conquer 100 pushups!

These are not MMA pushups.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:35 AM
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I will concur in part with Tripp's "oogie-boogie land" comment: If you are a smoker, you have no business worrying about any kind of contamination in your food supply, because you are poisoning yourself on a schedule that environmental contaminants can never match.

The two populations (smokers and pesticide worriers) don't have much overlap in the U.S., but in Europe it is not unusual to see smokers shopping at the organic farmers market.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:36 AM
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139's recipe is a definition of "healthy" that I can get behind.

No pesticides, no transfats. That's basically the standard definition, isn't it?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:37 AM
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but in Europe it is not unusual to see smokers shopping at the organic farmers market.

Fair point if their motivation is avoiding pesticides. Maybe it's social, or maybe they're shopping on taste (not a universal win at `organic' markets, of course)


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:38 AM
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146: heh. That's a funny site. Joining the force with gswift?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:39 AM
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At the present time, because of mercury conamination the State of Minnesota recommends that no one eat more than one meal per week of wild fish, and no more than one meal a month of some of the larger species (such as carp!).

I hope that this is oogie-boogie stuff, but I have no reason to believe so. Mercury is especially bad because it doesn't biodegrade and is cumulative in the tissues both fish and of humans. As far as I know there's no way to clean up Minnesota's lakes, though maybe if ongoing contamination is reduced the mercury will settle out with time.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:39 AM
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150: From what I've heard, I doubt the typical force requires 100.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:40 AM
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148: butter doesn't have trans fats?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:41 AM
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As far as I know there's no way to clean up Minnesota's lakes

Encourage people to eat carp, perhaps?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:41 AM
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in Europe it is not unusual to see smokers shopping at the organic farmers market.

Setting aside the debatable point that a smoker has no business worrying about pesticide contamination, there are good reasons to shop at such markets which have nothing to do with personal health concerns.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:41 AM
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OT: Congressional Dems have started signaling that they're open to caving on offshore drilling. Among the awesome are Dick Durbin, Steny Hoyer, Sherrod Brown, Mike Ross, and of course the always delightful Harry Reid.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:42 AM
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it is not unusual to see smokers shopping at the organic farmers market

Personal health isn't the only reason to choose organic. Environmental health is significant, too.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:42 AM
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153: Oh yeah, butter has small quantities. Be sure to scoop out the trans fats before you use it, then.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:44 AM
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148: butter doesn't have trans fats?

No. Trans fats are artificially produced by humans in order to turn liquid fat into solid fat.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:45 AM
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150: If by "joining the force" you mean "continuing a pattern of half-assed, quickly-abandoned self-improvement projects," then yes, you could say I was joining the force.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:45 AM
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Environmental health is significant, too.

This too. Unfortunately, `organic' is becoming increasingly useless as a proxy for environmentally sound & sustainable.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:45 AM
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On topic, nuts could go another cup and go in the cup holder, too. I really like almonds for that sort of snacky purpose. (Possibly problem: eating entire bag of almonds.)


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:47 AM
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156: I'd love to believe that Reid, Durbin, et al. are being totally Machiavellian and trying to return the offshore drilling issue to the states, the better to turn the tables on the GOP in Florida. But there is little evidence to support that view.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:47 AM
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No. Trans fats are artificially produced ..

There are naturally occurring trans fats. Not in as large percentages, though.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:48 AM
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I did include Obviously we do not want to risk food poisoning, so if you are eating skins and rinds then wash them first. in my initial statement.

And I love fish and I love fishing and I am very aware of the problem of mercury in fish that John mentions. AFAIK the mercury is mostly from burning coal.

While organic as generally defined is a sustainable agriculture it is also much less productive than agri-business and it factors into my estimates of how many people will starve in the future.

So "organic" is not guilt-free.

In general people are really crappy at estimating risks and rationally modifying their behavior.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:49 AM
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"organic" is becoming increasingly useless as a proxy for environmentally sound & sustainable.

So true. If it's a choice between conventionally raised local produce and organically raised transportation-intensive produce, I go with local every time, for both environmental and gastronomic reasons.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:49 AM
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Tobacco is the commonest cause of preventable death in the US, ahead of auto accidents, murder, suicide, and even obesity, so I think that smokers sound silly if they start talking about pesticides, etc.

I did see a graph in an epidemiology text awhile back that really struck me. Since 1950 death from heart disease and hypertension have gone down enormously, whereas cancer mortality has been flat. There were improvements in cancer treatment during that period, but apparently they couldn't keep up with the increasing causes of cancer. Pesticides are among the suspects.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:50 AM
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162: yeah, I've been in the habit of driving around with a can of cashews in my car lately. They disappear surprisingly fast.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:51 AM
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Local or small- tends to use fewer pesticides in any case.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:51 AM
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160: hey, me too!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:52 AM
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When people ask me why I think we're doomed, this is why: because these idiots can't even keep the modest environmental protections we've got in place under the force of "waaahhh, my gas bill!" Given that, how are they going to pass any legislation that's going to meaningfully curtail greenhouse gas emissions?


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:52 AM
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whereas cancer mortality has been flat. There were improvements in cancer treatment during that period, but apparently they couldn't keep up with the increasing causes of cancer. Pesticides are among the suspects.

Is that true of all age groups? Because the prevalence of cancer in general is influenced by longevity: if you avoid death by accident, violence, or infectuous disease, you stand a greater risk of living long enough to get cancer.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:53 AM
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157 and 164 pwned by 155 and 158. Its seems immodest to point out my own pwnage prowess, but someone's got to keep score.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:55 AM
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"waaahhh, my gas bill!"

Yeah, and wait until that is "waaahh my food bill" and then "waaahhh I'm starving."

But don't say these things out loud cause you'll be labeled "crazed."


Posted by: Tripp the Crazed | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:57 AM
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Longevity increases haven't been enormous, maybe five or ten years during that time. Some people dies of cancer who would have died younger of heart disease 50 years ago, but I don't see how that could account for the whole contrast.

The data I saw is about ten years old now, and I've read that there's been a more positive trend recently. How much is due to less smoking I don't know.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:58 AM
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it is also much less productive than agri-business

This is actually not strictly true, in terms of yield per acre. What is true is that some industrial agriculture has very high yields relative to the amount of human effort (and hence labor cost) put in. It's also true a lot of industrial effort goes into techniques that reduce labor at the cost of yield too (see GM soybean numbers for roundup-ready and friends). Scaling beats absolute yields/acre here.

However, this sort of industrial agriculture is mostly dependent on fossil fuel inputs that are going to run out soon enough, hence unsustainable. So we're screwed either way, but "organic" isn't the problem.

To be honest, my first order problem with a lot of industrially produced stuff is that it tastes lousy compared to alternatives, so for me represents false economy. Not that some of the more blatant stupidity of it doesn't bug me too, but I'm self centered enough to realize I probably don't prioritize that way, really.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:59 AM
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173: I thought 158 was just acknowledging that I had a point in 153 about the inaccuracy of 148's description of 139?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 10:59 AM
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And I further humbly claim that in 177 I have written the most annoying unfogged comment ever.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:00 AM
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Local or small- tends to use fewer pesticides in any case.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. A producer that is really conscious of environmental issues will try not to use more chemical pesticides or fertilizer than strictly necessary (and a biodiverse ecology has more natural protection than a typical monoculture), but the flip side is that less sophisticated farmers may overapply pesticides and fertilizers "just to be sure".

The larger the operation, the more incentive to invest in sophisticated technology to minimize the need for chemicals. A college classmate of mine works for a very large fruit company (owned by his parents). He was an applied math major, and spends a lot of time using statistical models to predict when and where to selectively apply chemical pesticides to stem an outbreak before it occurs. The company is so large, and spends so much money on pesticides, that it pays for them to devote this kind of effort to cutting down on consumption.

Along similar lines, my father (small farmer) went back to doing blanket applications of anhydrous ammonium to his corn because the GPS technology (which puts the fertilizer only on the spots of earth with a measurable defficiency) proved too expensive to be cost effective on such a small scale.



Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:00 AM
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13: well, what else would it be?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:01 AM
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If it's a choice between conventionally raised local produce and organically raised transportation-intensive produce

I don't know what the situation is in MA, but here I almost never face that choice.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:01 AM
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180: the Hurricane, if you're the show-us-your-tits type.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:02 AM
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So we're screwed either way,

And when I say "we", I mean it in the usual sense: people living in other parts of the world.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:04 AM
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178 may be true. You shithead.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:04 AM
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I could possibly get on board with 146. The only problem is that I've already got a workout regime I'm mostly sticking to so far (my summer roomie is great for this, since his gym trips are as regular as apo's bowel movements).

I doubt I could do this on top of my current workouts, but I have been meaning to include more push-up and pull-up type exercises.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:04 AM
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I recently biked through our local Amish neighborhood. They have enormous truck gardens by every house. As far as I know, they're productive on a per acre basis without much fossil fuel use; I don't know if they use pesticide and fertilizer.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:04 AM
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I don't know what the situation is in MA, but here I almost never face that choice

Do you live in California, Jesus? On the east coast, we often see organic vegies shipped over land from the California Central Valley.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:05 AM
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Yeah, and wait until that is "waaahh my food bill" and then "waaahhh I'm starving."

It's already "I'm starving" in Haiti. But drilling for more oil because we're too stupid to cut our oil consumption isn't going to prevent anyone from starving; it's just going to fuck up the oceans some more while we continue baking the planet with the last dregs of our fossil fuels.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:06 AM
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187: Oregon. Eating seasonally, I could get pretty much all of our meat and produce from within a 100-mile radius, citrus and a few other exotic items excluded. If I could get a share in my friend's CSA, I could reduce that to about 10 miles for the produce and eggs. Stupid waiting list.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:09 AM
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the more incentive to invest in sophisticated technology to minimize the need for chemicals.

This is of course affected by the cost of said chemicals,

nitrogen-based fertilizers have traditionally been heavily over-applied by industrial farms, because it didn't hurt (them, at least) and was cheap. I suspect that this practice is in decline now, but impressive amounts of waste and damage have already been done.


It's not like industrial technologies applied to food production are prima facie a bad idea, just that the implications haven't been well thought out in all cases. That, and market distortions play an increasing role as operations scale up, and the ones we have are pretty stupid.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:10 AM
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we often see organic vegies shipped over land from the California Central Valley.

This varies a lot by region. The large-scale, industrial organic stuff from CA (and holland, and SW Ontario) ends up pretty much everywhere though.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:11 AM
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I suspect that this practice is in decline now

Yes, it is. Fourfold price increases for a ton of nitrogen, up to 5X by the time you get it on the field (because of fuel).

If Clinton had gotten his BTU tax passed in 1993, this trend would have started years ago, with the cash going to our national treasury instead of to the petrol-despots. Thanks again, Congressional GOP and John Breaux! Please go fuck yourselves with dangerous abandon!


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:21 AM
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192: Exactly. This is part of my "blatant stupidity" commentary above.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:26 AM
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146, 185: I'm in -- I haven't been working out at all with the way work's been, and this I can do in a couple of minutes a day. Email me with when we're starting.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:26 AM
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You know, I bought some "organic" "free-range" eggs last week, even though they were twice the price, hoping they would be super yummy, but they still tasted as goddamn flavorless as the eggs I normally buy.

When I was in France a couple months ago, even the regular cheap eggs from the crappy supermarket tasted like awesome! What's the deal with that shit?


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:27 AM
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I think the "Tom's" brand eggs taste a lot better than regular eggs. Since I was always confused by how eggs cost only like 15 cents each, I was fine with paying twice as much to begin with, so the improved price was a nice surprise.

Now you're going to tell me that the "Tom's" corporation is just using a loophole to sell artificially flavor-enhanced eggs from ConAgra as "free-range" and "natural", aren't you.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:29 AM
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146, 186, 194: I'm in, too. I just started going back to the gym a couple weeks ago and I can add this to the cardio portion of my workout.

Speaking of which, can someone tell me: you're supposed to do cardio before strength training, right? I know there's one right way to do it, but I always forget which order it is.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:31 AM
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If Clinton had gotten his BTU tax passed in 1993, this trend would have started years ago, with the cash going to our national treasury instead of to the petrol-despots.

Imagine if we had started 15 years before that, even!

The one and only example in living memory of a president admitting that there is no free lunch.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:32 AM
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195: Communist.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:32 AM
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194: I'm in, too. I did something like this in junior high school on the recommendation of a coach (his advice: when you're watching TV, do 25 pushups every time there is a commercial break; when you get too tired to do any more, turn the TV off), and it worked remarkably well.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:36 AM
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Is this a workout thread now? Because, I screwed up my back, and I need some advice. I wasn't doing anything when I messed up my back, just toodling on my computer, using my mousy arm to move my little mousy -- and suddenly, and lasting for the past couple of days, my neck and back have been pretty much immobilized.

I'm pretty sure it's just stress and lack of stretch that did it. So, I need to start exercising. I used to do taekwondo, but I'm not about to start that again. I'd like to do something moderate, easy on the joints, with a shallow learning curve, and that will strengthen my back and keep me limber. I hate swimming, so that's out. I've always been resistant to doing yoga, because, swipple, but if that's my only option I'll do it. Is it my only option?


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:38 AM
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What's the deal with that shit?

Lobbyists, mostly. "Organic", "free range" and even to some degree "grain fed", are now technical terms of the marketing art in the US, that don't tell you anything useful.

To a first approximation, all eggs you can buy in a big chain supermarket suck, regardless of labeling. I pay less that the premium you did for local yard eggs, and they taste like eggs.

ymmv, and if you're lucky you can get something decent from your local supermarket. Probably not, though.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:40 AM
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CAN WE PLEASE GO BACK TO SAYING "YUPPIE" INSTEAD OF "SWIPPLE" PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE THANK YOU SO MUCH EVERYBODY


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:40 AM
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My secret plan is to do the push-ups and not tell any of you.

Also, running every day(ish)? Surprisingly non-horrible.

201: why not do Tai Chi or something along those lines? Chi Gung is another fun one. You can find schools that are much more intensive than "old people moving slowly in the park".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:41 AM
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Oh, and the `why isn't it like that in France' part of your comment is simple. The French won't put up with this sort of BS; I guess they care more about food. How stereotypical.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:41 AM
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I've never tried tai chi. Is it exercisy/stretchy?


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:42 AM
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200: Damn, no wonder I'm out of shape. I should buy a TV.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:42 AM
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The French won't put up with this sort of BS; I guess they care more about food have regulations that we don't.

Don't condescend to the entire United States of America. It's not somebody's fault if they don't know what they're missing.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:43 AM
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203: No.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:44 AM
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206: in its mellow way, yeah. It works a lot of the same muscles that martial arts does -- you're doing a lot of balancing, holding positions, moving in ways you usually don't -- but it's all done very slowly and gently.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:46 AM
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Re:Pushups. Just did 22 without much strain. Anybody remember my broken or sprained wrist that I had in a splint from October to March? Still a little pain, still a little worried, kinda hesitant on pushups.

I need to get back on the weights, but waiting til Dallas cools a bit, cause I need to move the bench outside. I guess that's a sucky excuse. 95 heat indexes shouldn't be a concern for a 60-yr-old with a bad heart. Just goofing ya.

But I may give the wrist another few months.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:47 AM
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203: This blog has been the Official Stuff White People Like Fan Club for weeks now.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:48 AM
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all eggs you can buy in a big chain supermarket suck

I haven't noticed any difference in supermarket eggs either. Getting them at the local farmer's market, however? Like night and day.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:49 AM
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208: This shift happened over time, and people cared less about the quality/taste of food than they did about convenience and cost. As a result we got exactly what we asked for, but it was a choice, not a mystery. "not their fault if they don't know what their missing" is bullshit. People knew, but chose otherwise.

The original question was why you have trouble finding decent eggs in the US, while in France you find them everywhere. That's the answer. It's not a judgement except from a personal point of view (I care more about food than average). But it does explain the difference in options. If you like, redact "BS" from my original. That's my personal trade-off. Others may be happier with tasteless eggs at a bit lower price.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:49 AM
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201: I'd like to do something moderate, easy on the joints, with a shallow learning curve, and that will strengthen my back and keep me limber.

You don't say how out of shape you currently are, i.e. how quickly or slowly you can get up to speed, but off the top of my head, I'd say walking to begin with. Speed walking. Unless you're worried that it's dorky.

Increases your metabolism, core body strength (assuming you pay attention to form), flexible in terms of time and equipment.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:50 AM
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And when I say "we", I mean it in the usual sense: people living in other parts of the world.

Exactly so. More specifically - the global poor. With globalization we can screw the poor worldwide now. Ain't progress great?

When I was in France a couple months ago, even the regular cheap eggs from the crappy supermarket tasted like awesome! What's the deal with that shit?

Butter. Lots and lots of butter. OK, I'll admit the carrots in England were unbelievable. Each one, even the adults, tasted like real baby carrots, and not that wooden phony cut-down BS faux baby carrot you get around here. I mean for the first time in my life I liked cooked carrots. Of course there was the vegemite and the "savory" crisps so that did even things out somewhat but I'll give England a bravo on the carrots.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:52 AM
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Re weights before cardio - if you are young enough to do both in the same day it probably doesn't matter much but weights usually come before cardio. Good cardio depletes your store of sugars and weight training really needs the sugars.

But if you can do both in the same workout then I envy and despise you.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:55 AM
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213: Exactly. But that's industry lobbied to be able to put "free range" on the box if there's a 10 ft square bit of ground attached to the warehouse the chickens are in, to have "organic" be a particular check list on soil & feed, to have "grain feed" mean a certain class of feed stocks. Overall, their operations are basically conventional.

Like you say though, eggs from chickens that run around outside and don't eat an exclusively processed diet? Like night and day. And you can't fake it at industrial scales.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:55 AM
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203: It depends on the style--the Chen style forms are more strenuous than the Yang style, which is more commonly taught in the U.S. Both are good for flexibility and balance. For any style it's hard to find a teacher who knows what he's doing and is also a good teacher.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:56 AM
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217--But don't forget to do a quick 5-minute cardio warmup before lifting, right?


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:56 AM
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215: I do go running from time to time (not as often as I should) and take walks. But right now I'm more concerned about staying flexible and improving upper body and back strength.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:57 AM
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Butter. Lots and lots of butter.

bzzzzzzzt. the eggs themselves are much better.

using butter is, of course, a good thing as well.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:57 AM
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215: 208: This shift happened over time, and people cared less about the quality/taste of food than they did about convenience and cost. As a result we got exactly what we asked for, but it was a choice, not a mystery. "not their fault if they don't know what their missing" is bullshit. People knew, but chose otherwise.

I'd even generalize this from food to all of consumer goods. "Cheap" became king. I blame Walmart. Frigging Walmart. And I blame people. Frigging people.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 11:58 AM
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bzzzzzzzt. the eggs themselves are much better.

And what goes into those eggs? Hmmmmm?? How do you know? It might be butter. Or maybe butter residue.

Quod Erat demonstratum.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:00 PM
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221:Everyone here knows I am a dumbbell fanatic. This is not about 5 reps of 75 lbs. Moving 1-2 pounds in each hand with proper form will do wonders. I just sat here doing a couple weightless curls and think I felt resistance in my lower back.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:01 PM
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Everyone here knows I am a dumbbell fanatic.

And yet we know nothing about your workout routines.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:03 PM
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221: I don't know Tai Chi, but yoga will do that.

Flexibility is a weird thing, calling for both strength and an ability to chill out and lengthen your muscles, as it were. Those who do a lot of weight training will be better able to speak to the compromises there with flexibility.

Depending on where you are, you can try to find yoga classes in a leftwing (Unitarian?) church so you won't feel so swipple about it.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:04 PM
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Like you say though, eggs from chickens that run around outside and don't eat an exclusively processed diet? Like night and day. And you can't fake it at industrial scales.

Well, yeah, but without an incentive chickens don't seem to want to run around outside.

Now stick them with cattle and they'll love the maggots on the cow pies. Yeah. Organic. Watch out for triethylamine though. Not from the maggots.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:04 PM
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201 i think i described once an easy and lazy exercise
you just stand there and throw your arms around your torso in a clockwise and counter clockwise movement, unlimited time and times, how many is up to you
a very easy and surprisingly effective they say, to lose some weight and have a feeling of exercising
and you can do it while watching tv
you can add some half sitting positions to the basic standing position


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:05 PM
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Depending on where you are, you can try to find yoga classes in a leftwing (Unitarian?) church so you won't feel so swipple about it.

Rather an odd understanding of the term.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:05 PM
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demonstratum.

Demonstrandum, bitch.

"Quod erat demonstratum": what was demonstrated.
"Quod erat demonstrandum": what was to be demonstrated.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:07 PM
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Rather an odd understanding of the term.

Quite.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:08 PM
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And what goes into those eggs? Hmmmmm?? How do you know? It might be butter. Or maybe butter residue.

You've seen people feeding hens butter? Bizarre. I can get you amazing yard eggs just down the road here. No milk products involved.

Quod Erat demonstratum.
This term does not mean what you seem to thing it means (even if you used the right variant)


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:08 PM
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"Demonstratum" would be a great name for a hipster metal band.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:09 PM
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Uh oh, we're about to see a Latin throwdown.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:10 PM
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Latin throwdown

is an even better name for a hipster metal band


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:14 PM
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Walmart isn't an important cause. The problem was here 40 years ago. Around here, Walmart actually has better quality and variety than anywhere else.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:16 PM
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230, 232: I know! I was just ruminating about it.

But actually, I meant that taking yoga classes in a gym in which everyone is 20- or 30-something and decked out in the latest sports bra, and taking them with a bunch of people of all ages and shapes who are wearing whatever, are two very different things.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:17 PM
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237L Walmart is a symptom.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:19 PM
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Uh oh, we're about to see a Latin throwdown.

Watch the geeks break bad!

Grammar geeks against the Latin geeks.

conjugate-off!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQMEs8OTt4c&feature=related


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:22 PM
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Almonds. Soaked Almonds. Put them in water overnight to cut a bit of the bitterness and remove the enzymes in the skin that interfere with digestion. Delicious and nutritious.

Soaked almonds were recommended to me by the crazy shrink I mentioned yesterthread, who was convinced that eating only raw foods would eliminate my depression. Being so far gone at the time I was clinging to just about anything, I proceeded to eat nothing but soaked almonds for three days straight (Choices are hard when depressed, as is creativity - she gave almonds as an example of a raw food, so that's what I ate). By day three I was crapping turds that were a light beige. Just before posting this I realized that if I'd also drunk largish amounts of concentrated food dyes I could have been crapping the rainbow, which would have helped the depression no end.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:24 PM
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In case this hasn't been mentioned: Chickens are prey animals, and *hate* to be completely out in the open. A healthy chicken will need room to exercise, build a nest and to take a dust bath. They also must be kept in group small enough to establish a pecking order.

This means that they really don't need more than 10 feet. My friends Sarah and Ryan have a half dozen or so chickens with a 10' square coop and a 10' or so yard, and it's fine for them.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:24 PM
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226:Workouts with weights

Roughly 50 pages on warmups & stretching, 50 pages on exercises & form, and 50 pages on programs:Graduated 1-9, lower body, upper body, circuit, pyramiding, self-design. I move up 2 levels, down one, add weight. I keep three sets of bells handy for pyramiding, crunch aids etc and for areas I am weak:7 1/2, 12+, 25+. Do an hour on a stationary bike before an hour on the weights. In addition I fastwalk the dogs about fifty miles a week.

Or did. The wrist fuckup last September seriously depressed and scared me, and the dogs can't take the summer heat.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:26 PM
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242: 10ft for 2500 though?

Anyway, as you note, it's not the 10ft that's the problem per se., it's that it's a little empty patch of dirt fully exposed with nothing interesting in it. It's not the 10ft patch that's the problem, the whole scale is wrong.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:27 PM
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Aw, soup, give heckle and jeckle a break. She's new. She has some potential. Don't be so harsh.

Are you trying to refer to me here? Because I've been here for quite some time, and have the Heebie ass photos to prove it.


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:31 PM
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211: On push-ups: For a few years now, I've only done the varient where one pushes off from the fists instead of the open hands. My wrists really don't like being bent back so far with weight as is necessary for a standard push-up, especially not 20-30 times in a row (plus, bending my wrist back always reminds me of improper typing form, which I do too much of as it is). I've found it far more comfortable to keep my wrist straight and aligned properly with the knuckles.

On eggs: I'm trying to care, and failing miserably. Now talk about flavorless mass-produced pork bulked up with water? That's got my attention.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:33 PM
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If you need more:

Program 4:Warmups,Abdominal crunch-side, ab curl/leg lift, Side lunge, Set-up, side leg lift, fly, dumbbell press, shrug, good morning, stretches

break...as I add weight I split these into two days

Warmups, Walking in place, center curlup, shoulder press, side lateral, combo kickback, preacher curl

all with weights

Program 5 then has 75% different exercises:pushups, pullovers, arnold press, black eye, side curl, etc

So I go 1, 2, dayoff, 3, add weight, 2, day off, 3, 4, etc


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:37 PM
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Now talk about flavorless mass-produced pork bulked up with water? That's got my attention.

The discussion generalizes quite well, particularly to industrial scale meat production. Short version: it all sucks.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:38 PM
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On eggs: I'm trying to care, and failing miserably

Maybe you've never had a good egg.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:40 PM
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I've been idly contemplating raising chickens here at East Liberty Gardens (corn is chest-high! plums by the bushel! black walnuts that I can't give away!). We have hawks in the neighb, so I'd need cover. Can I fertilize with the shit? If things are so grim that I'm raising my own F-ing chickens, would I have security issues?

I've always dreamed of pasturing a goat in our local park, but I recognize that I'm ahead of my time on that front.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:41 PM
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On eggs: I'm trying to care, and failing miserably.

Dude, have you driven past an 18-wheeler on the highway packed high and wide with 1-foot square cages each holding a chicken, each screaming?

But. Aside from the shock of that, the eggs are better if the chickens are free, baby, yet not exposed to foxes and the like (h/t Rob).

Also I don't know why Emerson is defending Walmart.

(/troll)


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:43 PM
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Blume, currently travelling towards this country, agrees with the consensus on Customs and Border Patrol

Given that they currently have my car, I refuse to badmouth the Customs and Border Patrol people in any way, shape, or form. They're very nice people and I'm sure are doing a wonderful job.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:44 PM
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Maybe you've never had a good egg.

I tell you what: I used to have a source for duck eggs (living in my buddy's back yard). Try as I might, I could never taste any diff from standard chicken eggs. the yolk was gorgeous yellow-orange, and the raw yolk was thicker, but they fried up exactly the same. Same deal with some locally-sourced cage-free eggs that I'm pretty sure are legit, not greenwashed.

I suppose it comes down to feed, but I'm just having a lot of problem with all the proclamations of life-changing eggs.

Now organic milk - that's a world apart.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:44 PM
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Can I fertilize with the shit?

Chickens have inefficient digestion. That's why they feed the shit to cows.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:48 PM
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253: It's almost as if people have different -- what's the word -- tastes, and that different people make different judgments to the exact same sensations. But surely that is impossible, and to admit the possibility would lead to the collapse of everything we hold dear.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:48 PM
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Can I fertilize with the shit?

Absolutely. The smell is horrendous, though; our farmer neighbors in VT used to spread chicken manure every spring on the field across the road (and more to the point, upwind) from us, and it made my eyes water.

I wish I had enough land to use one of these movable coops.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:51 PM
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Soup's right in 254, but you can still use it for fertilizer.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:53 PM
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Depends on the organic milk. The large-scale stuff doesn't seem to taste that much different from industrial non-organic milk, and isn't really worth the markup for me. But something like Straus, for some non-dumping-on-cereal application where taste really matters? Swoon. (Which reminds me, I need to bust out the ice cream maker before peach/nectarine season is over.)


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:54 PM
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258 to 253.


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:54 PM
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257: ah, yes, that was careless of me ... I didn't mean to suggest you can't use it but that it isn't 1:1 substitute for other manures, etc.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 12:55 PM
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As I understand, chicken shit is too string and has to be diluted or composted before it's good fertilizer. Too much amonia or something. People say it burns the crops.

As for Walmart -- in point of fact, if I want anything special around here, the best place for 40+ miles around is Walmart. (Exceptions: homegrown, roadside stands, and Amish). The problems we're talking about predated Walmart, and most small groceries have the same suppliers as the the giants, except maybe worse.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 1:01 PM
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Dude, have you driven past an 18-wheeler on the highway packed high and wide with 1-foot square cages each holding a chicken, each screaming?

Oh, well, yes. From an animal cruelty standpoint, it's a world of difference and pretty horrible. I was mostly just injecting my own dislike for eggs in a conversation that didn't need any contribution from me. Soup nails it in 248 though.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 1:06 PM
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The Internets tell me that cardio before weights is better.

As for being young enough to do them both on the same day, yeah, I guess. Although I usually split my weight-training into upper/lower body for separate days.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 1:09 PM
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As I understand, chicken shit is too string and has to be diluted or composted before it's good fertilizer

This is not really an issue for small-scale chicken raising. Having a few hens eating and shitting on your property will not harm the soil quality. The issue is when you have massive battery operations that produce manure in quantities that cannot be absorbed by the local land.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 1:39 PM
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I recently biked through our local Amish neighborhood. They have enormous truck gardens by every house. As far as I know, they're productive on a per acre basis without much fossil fuel use; I don't know if they use pesticide and fertilizer.

John, I've walked Amish corn fields. They are productive in the sense that they produce corn but they ain't economical. Why do you think the Amish switched to furniture?

Ah, but who cares if it costs more, you say. It is better for the Earth.

True, says I. But the people paying 70% of their income for food care, Mr. Richie Richbucks.

Are you trying to refer to me here? Because I've been here for quite some time, and have the Heebie ass photos to prove it. I like photos. Care to share?

The Internets tell me that cardio before weights is better.

You have access to the internets?! Then why the hell did you ask here?


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 1:45 PM
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Knecht,

This is not really an issue for small-scale chicken raising.

I know one thing. Bring one rooster - a single rooster, just one teeny tiny rooster into a suburban area and have it crow once on just one morning and you are gonna get complaints before that bird can even poop enough to kill a single blade of grass. And we all know chickens don't piss, right? You know why?


Posted by: Tripp the Crazed | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 1:50 PM
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Why do you think the Amish switched to furniture?

Yeah, they can't cut it as farmers so they don't do it anymore.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 1:51 PM
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You know why?

Somebody give Tripp a thump, he's stuck in a loop.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 1:52 PM
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Tripp's return was like elevating Unfogged to Level 2 of a video game. Before, you had to maneuver through threads while avoiding mcmanus' troll-spasms, but now the game is twice as hard.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 1:57 PM
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The Amish here, and probably everywhere, do diversified self-sufficiency agriculture. The self-sufficiency part around here means they do barn construction, blacksmithing and metal work, run a lumber mill, and do woodworking.

They probably don't produce corn in export quantities. But my ex-farmer friend says that they're some of the few people who can stay in business on the marginal land around here. They do it by not using credit, not relying on petrochemicals, and working long hours for low pay.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 2:01 PM
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267 - that website is a case study in how not to use backgrounds. I managed to get the gist by highlighting paragraphs.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 2:27 PM
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203: [impassioned plea for "yuppie" over "swipple"]

Yupple, OK by me.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 3:09 PM
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They do it by not using credit, not relying on petrochemicals, and working long hours for low pay.

Exactomundo. The Amish are the past. The Amish are the future, except with brighter colors and MTV.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 3:12 PM
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Count me in for the 100 push-ups.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 4:24 PM
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246: Interesting. I've been working exclusively on my fingertips and ridgetops in yoga to heal my RSIs, so maybe I should switch to fingertips or knuckles for pushups (although I won't get to 100 that way).

JMS, I've been doing a lot of work to overcome forearm, neck and shoulder pain from deskwork. I've worked with an ergonomist, a physical therapist, a yoga instructor, and a chiropractor, and have managed considerable improvement. I ice my neck for 10 minutes a day and take frequent stretch breaks, and the more yoga I do, the better I feel. I'd be happy to go over it with you in detail.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 4:26 PM
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Question: I'm considering starting with Yoga to get some strength and balance gains, but I've always been really, really unflexible. Like, I could never touch my toes, even as a kid. Is there some method that's the best to start out with? Is there some way to avoid what I'm pretty sure is gonna be an inevitable feeling of humiliation at the start?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 4:32 PM
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Is there some method that's the best to start out with?

Iyengar yoga, aka yoga with props. There is a big emphasis on using wooden blocks and other things to allow you to do modified versions of poses that you can't (yet) do properly in their fullest realization.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 4:40 PM
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275: Hi Wrongshore! I might take you up on that offer, actually. All the RL people I know have been pushing the yoga on me pretty aggressively. Did you find that the chiropracty helped at all?


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 4:45 PM
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I'm not entirely convinced by it -- it came about because I was seeking treatment after being rear-ended, but I did like being realigned. The other stuff was more important, IME.

277 is very good. In general, be fearless about explaining to the teacher where you're at and asking for help (don't monopolize the class, of course). I took a private yoga lesson, and it was enormously helpful; the teacher pointed out some ways to do poses that were counterintuitive and didn't look like they were supposed to look, and they've been very helpful.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 4:49 PM
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277 -- Thanks! Doing a little research, it looks like there's some kind of institute offering just that right near where I live.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 4:50 PM
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At the risk of returning to the original post's topic...

I haven't tried this myself, and am somewhat skeptical, but a friend of mine with a long commute says he does well with a 50/50 mixture of good oatmeal flavored with dried fruit of whatever kind is on hand and milk, in one of those big insulated cups.


Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Link to this comment | 07-17-08 6:22 PM
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I'm in for the push up challenge!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 07-18-08 8:50 AM
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182:Damn. Peer pressure.

What is the challenge anyway, 100 consecutive pushups on Sept 15? Based on past experience, if I tried, I'd have everything but the wind/cardio, IOW, I could do them in an hour but not consecutively.

Course, I could stop smoking.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 07-18-08 10:11 AM
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I could do one hundred pushups simultaneously.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-18-08 10:14 AM
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I'm in. Basically 5 sets separated by a minute of rest, right? Parents can add a family togetherness dimension by having a kid sit on your shoulders for extra weight.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 07-18-08 10:29 AM
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285: surely it's consecutive, not in sets (for the challenge, not for training up)


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-18-08 10:34 AM
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