Re: Old soul

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Her purpose on this Earth, she said, was to help raise awareness about all this, to help the unenlightened become better reflections of their true, repressed selves.

She's trying to starfuck her way to Nirvana.

max
['A type.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:19 PM
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What are her views on transubstantiation?


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:20 PM
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Oh, Labs. It really matters with whom Edwards had an affair? I've encountered this "old soul" language before from people; it's unusual, but the speakers aren't usually evil people.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:20 PM
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It's not that she's evil, Pars. I guess it matters for two reasons that will help this comment thread get uglier. First, Hunter-as-portrayed sounds like...not the person to have the top secret affair with. (So I think, wow, JE, your strategic judgment was even worse than I thought.) Second, Hunter, to me, comes across as kind of needy, vulnerable, a groupie. (So I think, wow, JE, you were kind of preying, weren't you?)


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:24 PM
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||

No more masturbating to Isaac Hays.

|>


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:24 PM
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human beings were dragged down by "blockages" to their actual potential

This was happening to my 14 month-old this week, but I think it was because he drank too much cow's milk.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:28 PM
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3: Maybe not evil, but stupid. Not that there's anything wrong with that.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:29 PM
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The first time I laid eyes on Rielle Hunter, I could tell she was a story. She had frizzy blond hair with DARK roots, wore bright nail polish and moved like someone who knew how to work a room.

Worst lede ever.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:31 PM
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Wait, Isaac Hayes is dead? Dammit.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:32 PM
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It really matters with whom Edwards had an affair?

It might be interesting, if it tells us anything about Edwards. If Edwards had had an affair with Labs, that might be Unfogged fodder.

I think it shows questionable judgement, not only the affair in itself, but who he chose. Or who chose him.

Why are so many protective of this woman?


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:33 PM
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holy shit I read a McManus comment and nodded in agreement.

Edwards: not my type!


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:34 PM
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4: I see it differently. She's basically coming onto him by saying 'Only I can see your true potential, you could be like a god-king among men, generously saving the poor of the world.' Add to that a little bit of neediness and obvious desire for him, and chances are he never thought 'can she keep a secret.'


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:35 PM
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8: I'm still trying to figure out why 'DARK' is in all caps.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:35 PM
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Cut the woman some slack. Kucinich had already been taken.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:36 PM
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So I think, wow, JE, you were kind of preying, weren't you?

AFAIK, she approached Edwards in the bar with the video proposal.

Edwards might be in the habit of hitting on strange women in public bars, but somehow the above seems a more likely beginning.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:37 PM
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13: I know. If she'd been a natural blonde, no story there? It's such a Raymond Chandler opening, without the payoff.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:38 PM
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It's yet more evidence of Edwards' general tackiness -- he's poor white trash at heart.


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:39 PM
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Hunter, to me, comes across as kind of needy, vulnerable, a groupie

Ah. Okay. The people I've known who speak that language have been extremely independent. I haven't clicked through to the link, and if Kraab is quoting from it in 8, Hunter is not like the people I've known.

That said, I'm not sure that viewing Edwards' extramarital affair in terms of whether his judgment was sound, less than sound, or entirely unsound makes sense. People don't have affairs in a calculated manner unless they truly are jerks; they do it because they're moved. To do so.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:39 PM
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You can take the boy out of the mill, Adam, but you can't take the mill out of the boy.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:40 PM
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16 is so right.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:42 PM
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The first time I laid eyes on Terry Lennox he was drunk in a Rolls-Royce Silver Wraith outside the terrace of The Dancers. The parking lot attendant had brought the car out and he was still holding the door open because Terry Lennox's left foot was still dangling outside, as if he had forgotten he had one. He had a young-looking face but his hair was bone white. You could tell by his eyes that he was plastered to the hairline, but otherwise he looked like any other nice young guy in a dinner jacket who had been spending too much money in a joint that exists for that purpose and for no other.
There was a girl beside him. Her hair was a lovely shade of dark red and she had a distant smile on her lips and over her shoulders she had a blue mink that almost made the Rolls-Royce look like just another automobile. It didn't quite. Nothing can.

Posted by: raymond chandler | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:48 PM
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I amend my 18. I've been putting a number of assumptions in place: that the parties to the affair are basically decent, honorable people. That no party is just a horndog looking to get laid (in which case calculations would be appropriate).

Take those off the table, and sure, Hunter might not have been the best "choice."


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:48 PM
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Could people not refer to Edwards as JE? Please?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:55 PM
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10: I think it shows questionable judgement, not only the affair in itself, but who he chose. Or who chose him.

Don't choose weirdos!

Why are so many protective of this woman?

Because we don't know anything about her other than scant reportage and biographical information, and she was an equal party to the affair, equally affected by it, who deserves as much privacy and refraining from judgment as does Edwards.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:56 PM
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16: Yeah, his wife found him collapsed in his home early this morning. Story.

And I've managed to misspell the last name of two dead celebrities this weekend. Sigh.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:56 PM
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16 s/b 9. Umm ... They're both square numbers.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:57 PM
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Yes, much better to have an affair with a lobbyist, someone tapped into the power structure a bit more, who would understand the rules a bit better.

(And of course even I can see that the answer to my attempted snark is in fact, yes, if you ever want to be president that is.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:58 PM
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Why don't Democratic politicians think about the effects their actions have on the children of America?

If they continue to have these affairs with women of questionable quality, will the youth of America want to grow up to be politicians, I ask you? If JE had been bumpin with a model, an actress, an olympian, someone like that, that would have been inspiring. We still have ground to make up since Clinton. JFK was a long time ago.

Please, think of the children.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:59 PM
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23: Don't worry, JE II; we'd never confuse you with someone in two relationships.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 1:59 PM
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I am JE I, excuse me. JE II is a former politician from one of the cracker states.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 2:00 PM
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You're first in our hearts, Emerson.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 2:01 PM
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Someone should get Pamela Des Barres' opinion on this.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 2:02 PM
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She caught me looking at her dark roots, and explained that a person's inner darkness needed to come out, adding that trying to find a good conditioner was a kind of spiritual quest. Her hips, clad in a tight skirt, elevated my awareness with every step, and hinted at a harmonic convergence that could ease my blockages. Sensing that I wanted to enter her field of consciousness, she drew close and put her hand on my chest, purring, "You must be a Taurus. I'm feeling like a water sign right now, if you know what I mean."


Posted by: new age raymond chandler | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 2:34 PM
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She explained that she'd been tempted, and had succumbed, to the urge to dye her hair. Now the roots were growing out and -- how embarrassing! -- what to do? Nothing, she laughed (smokily). It was a mistake in the first place.

And these painted fingernails? All the girls are doing it. Surely you know that.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 2:41 PM
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explained that a person's inner darkness needed to come out

Antinomianism is hot.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 2:42 PM
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I've encountered this "old soul" language before from people; it's unusual, but the speakers aren't usually evil people.

But the specific line I quoted IS the sort of thing somewhat evil people say. They come into your life, screw it all up and leave; the theory is, is that you needed to be 'unclogged' or something, to become your more truer (!) and authentic self. The kind of Nietzscheism you can find on sale at Hot Topic.

Second, Hunter, to me, comes across as kind of needy, vulnerable, a groupie.

She comes across to me as somebody who used to do a lot of cocaine.

So, from what we've got there, we've got Boy Charming presidential candidate, with the wife who lives to be married, and the wife gets sick and maybe they ain't doin' it, and the lady in question comes along to 'free' Boy Candidate of his restrictive sexual limitations. Boy Charming eats this shit up with a spoon and does the dumb thing, and then what'shername moves on.

Alternatively, as above, but Edwards is a raving narcissist and he needed the egoboost and he found somebody who helps people like that, and he sorta forgot to think about his wife or his presidential campaign.

On balance, it's tawdry, not terrible. Bad taste, and as far as I can tell it mostly means zip about Edwards, except (maybe) that he didn't have enough sense to protect his campaign. Possibly it means he'd been doing the campaign for so long that it just got to him.

On the whole, who cares; I am boring myself and probably you talking about this. (I just find the whole 'helping the unenlightened' bit really funny.)

But it does tell us that John mcCain is a tough, hard narcissist, the kind of narcissist who isn't afraid to brutally dump his first wife and replace her with a reich heiress model, the kind of narcissist so self-involved he couldn't possibly ever take into consideration the needs of the nation when engaging in the Great Crusade against Muslims. The kind of steely narcissist who will kill millions of foreigners because their emissaries forgot to remove the red M&M's from the treat bowl!

max
['And if the United States is destroyed, well, obviously it was a weak vessel, destinied to be used up in the interests of greater mankind.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 2:54 PM
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OT: Oh. The woman who brings to us compelling harmonic a cappella creations is just blowing me away (via radio) with another. I know it's her. Imogen Heap! The first one was called "Hide and Seek"; the one I just heard ... new as far as I've heard. I need to get some of her work.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 3:15 PM
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reich heiress model,

Nice.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 3:31 PM
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human beings were dragged down by "blockages" to their actual potential; history was the story of souls entering and escaping our field of consciousness... Her purpose on this Earth, she said, was to help raise awareness about all this, to help the unenlightened become better reflections of their true, repressed selves.

OMG! John Edwards had an affair with my ex-MIL! (And judging from that, 3 is wrong.)


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 3:33 PM
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She obviously had him confused with John Edward (the "Crossing Over" guy). Most unfortunate.

||
The Boston rental market can BITE ME!!!!!!!!!!!! (I know NY is worse, & probably D.C. too--and I like D.C. much less as a city--but there it seems easier to explain why people are willing to overpay for housing.)
|>


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 3:45 PM
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Consider yourself bit, lady. Ha.


Posted by: Boston Landlord's Association | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 3:55 PM
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I must say that the knee-jerk response to new age language (which can be unfortunate) is annoying. Perhaps you have no idea how idiotic mainstream contemporary persons sound.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:01 PM
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Oh, I was mostly kidding, Parsimon -- though my ex-MIL does in fact talk that way and is in fact evil.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:08 PM
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Actually, they shouldn't bite me; they should be charged exorbitant prices for the privilege of gnawing on the lead-paint-ridden window frames and licking the industrial carpets of their crap-ass overpriced apartments, that none of the brokers know a damn thing about despite charging a full month's rent to show you the place.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:16 PM
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despite charging a full month's rent to show you the place.

That's such bullshit. Who came up with this?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:21 PM
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Katherine you're moving to Boston? Sweet christ, why? Er, that is, fun! When?

What neighborhoods are you looking in? Hint: pick one of the non-sucky ones.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:21 PM
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Katherine, I don't know exactly what you're looking for, but charging to show you the place? Do you mean the agent's fee (which you pay if and only if you take it)? Tragically common, though half-fees are more common now than they used to be - the rental market isn't nearly as bad as it was around 2000.

If you're looking on the Cambridge side of the river, I might be able to steer you towards some interesting/cheaper/nice neighborhoods.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:31 PM
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Because we don't know anything about her other than scant reportage and biographical information

Not for long!

She looked up, her face lit with happy incredulity. "You wrote that article that was published in an actual book that is in stores, in the room I sleep in. In the bed I sleep in." The homeowner had told her I wrote in bed. "It's amazing," Rielle said. "I can feel your energy in there."

"My woo-woo encounter with Rielle Hunter": it's a trendlet!


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:32 PM
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We were originally looking on the red line on the Cambridge side. We are now looking for anything that lets you get to MIT in 45 minutes or so w/o driving & w/o being really ugly or unwalkable. My husband got a somewhat unexpected job offer from MIT, & they are providing no help whatsoever w/ the housing search, no flexibility on the start date, and several weeks of dicking around while most of the Sept. 1 places get taken, which makes things impossible, particularly given the ubiquitous illegal discrimination wherein the 95% of landlords without a deleading compliance letter refuse to rent to families that are pregnant/have infants because of the lead law.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:41 PM
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OK, Ugg boots are bad, right? That's what I took away from the story.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:44 PM
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Somerville.

Or! East Boston!

I always suggest East Boston, and nobody ever believes me. Sure, you have to take the Blue Line, but it's an undiscovered gem.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:44 PM
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Hint: pick one of the non-sucky ones.

"Pro tip"!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:48 PM
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Saw Serpico last night, found Serpico's blog today.

he may be mcmanus's pro-Obama soul-twin.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:49 PM
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53 s/b "OT" or "||/|>" dependin' on whether you wanna talk about it.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:50 PM
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East Boston is surprisingly close and cheap. And that new Park is awesome! But if you can afford Somerville near Union, Ball, Porter, or Davis Squares, that's probably going to be more fun...


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:50 PM
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People who are married to smart people but have affairs with stupid people do not impress much. But I never thought much of Edwards anyway, although I tried to convince myself it was mere tribal antipathy.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:52 PM
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Katherine has a problem here. Yeah, Somerville, I'd say (on the red line), but I don't know how much the rental scene has changed. East Boston I don't know.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:52 PM
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55: yeah Somerville is a lot more fun, I don't think there's any question. Sure is pricey these days, though.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:53 PM
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I have a cousin in Eastie....I don't suppose the blue line connects directly to the red line now.

Yes, I meant the agent's fee. It's the combination of the fee & the sketchy and/or incompetent agents that really gets me--in Chicago you don't pay them and yet they actually are some use.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:55 PM
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mere tribal antipathy

Who hates mill people? Hill people? Cotton?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:57 PM
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Is mission hill still expensive? Is your husband willing to ride a bike to work?

Actually, biking and/or taking a bus open up huge swaths of town.

No, the blue line doesn't connect directly to the red line. You have a delightful green line interlude.

Depending on how long-term you're thinking, the green line Somerville extension is well underway; not sure when it's supposed to open. (Actually, given that you could live in Medford, if you wanted to live in Medford.)


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:59 PM
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60: us swells.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 4:59 PM
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North Cambridge is under-rated (it's where I live, though I'm moving to the margins of this neighborhood). It's under-rated and a bit cheaper because of perceived badness from the project towers at the other end of Rindge Ave, but I don't think it's a real problem at all. People are friendly and when there have been incidents there's been good community response. It's about 1/2 mile to Davis on this end, and a bit closer to Alewife at the other end. Have a look there if you haven't already. There's also the 77 bus nearby, which will get you to the red line with subway-level frequency.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:02 PM
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60: Non-members of the plaintiffs' bar.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:02 PM
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East Cambridge or Cambridgeport or Inman or that Beacon St./Kirkland/Washington area between Harvard, Porter, Inman & Union (the realtors seem to actually call it "Dali"). Union is a bit cheaper than the others & has potential. Or North Cambridge if its within a walk of Alewife.

You'd think Kendall would be affordable on account of how unappealing & soulless it is but apparently I'm supposed to swoon & shell out $3000 if I see a granite countertop & stainless steel refrigerator.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:03 PM
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I don't suppose the blue line connects directly to the red line now.

Alas not. Blue-Green-Red. But it sounds worse than it is. The green line is really the one you don't want to rely on for a long commute. If you want to be on the Red line, you might try East Cambridge and a walk into Kendall. Porter, Davis, Central, and Havard are of course fantastic neighborhoods, but pricey. There are areas around Central that aren't terrible, but East Cambridge will, I suspect be substantially cheaper. Also, great Brazilian food.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:04 PM
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Isn't there a rule about interrupting malicious gossip with practicalities?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:05 PM
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65: oh, well, yeah, if you want to live all close in like that it'll be expensive. Deeeeeep Somerville!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:08 PM
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The main thing is, the lead paint thing just absolutely kills you. Unless the rental market's taken off in the last two years, but I'm basically looking for my old place + a very small second bedroom for a crib--I don't have another explanation for why a 15% increase in square footage should lead to an 75% increase in rent.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:09 PM
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I'm supposed to swoon & shell out $3000 if I see a granite countertop & stainless steel refrigerator.

That's insane! You could get a two bedroom in Cambridgeport for less than that! Hell, you could *buy* a two bedroom in Cambridgeport for less than that. Get a new buyer's/renter's agent!

In East Cambridge, you need to be up further towards Cambridge street and farther away from the Genzyme/Biogen/Amgen complex. If you see a bodega, you're there!


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:12 PM
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70: the new Archstone North Point the 2 bedrooms start at $3k. Stupids!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:13 PM
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baa--don't worry, we're not actually looking at those places; I'm just perplexed at their existence.



Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:15 PM
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You should move to Suck City. If the Pernice Brothers are right, it should be easy to find a place.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:15 PM
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Cambridgeport is awesome, by the way.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:18 PM
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||

There's a pretty good thing on CSpan radio right now. Mrs. Obama and a male surrogate I don't recognize are meeting military wives. And just burying McCain.

|>


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:19 PM
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And, my husband tried 7 different realtors, none of whom showed him more than two apartments, which were rarely if ever even the same apartments they had advertised on craigslist & which they didn't seem to be able to answer basic questions about. Boston real estate agents are, as far as I can tell, useless leeches whom no one I have ever met has had a good experience with--everyone who has a good deal found it via word of mouth or an owner's listing on craigslist or somewhere else free.

I assume the lead paint thing is what's doing us in. Unless we just got really, really lucky before but it's pretty ridiculous that it's easier to stay in your budget as grad students than as two adults with real jobs but an infant on the way. Part of the problem was that it takes a while before you realize that you're dealing with a crappy market instead of just crappy realtors with bad listings, since the realtors *are* also crappy, and by then you have to catch your flight back home.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:21 PM
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one question, & then I will cease the threadjack--assuming I can convince my husband that two T transfers aren't ridiculous: where in East Boston? I've only ever been to Logan.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:26 PM
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If Mrs. Obama has a male surrogate the Edwards scandal will be dwarfed. I don't even want to think about the things that male surrogates do.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:26 PM
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77: near Maverick, towards the water. I haven't really investigated heavily, I just cruised around there one time and was very favorably impressed.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:28 PM
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hey look, post-1978 construction that doesn't cost over $2500/month. Hmmm.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 5:37 PM
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73: the Pernice Brothers are always right.


Posted by: kth | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:00 PM
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I must say that the knee-jerk response to new age language (which can be unfortunate) is annoying. Perhaps you have no idea how idiotic mainstream contemporary persons sound.

Bah. New Agers are annoying in the same say as Jesus freaks and schizos. People who aren't grounded in reality are generally a pain in the ass.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:07 PM
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The ass... of the real!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:10 PM
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82: Bah. New Agers are annoying in the same say as Jesus freaks and schizos.

No, they're worse. Schizophrenics aren't really responsible for their hallucinations (and can hopefully be treated), and for the most part, even the craziest of christians aren't promulgating much more than "the power of prayer". Snake-handling and the rejection of blood transfusions is actually pretty rare, whereas beneath 90% of New Age blather is some kind of insidious pseudo-science, like homeopathy or the really annoying popular conception of the implication of quantum mechanics (SO MUCH BURNING HATRED), or some racist 19th century ideology.

It's all splitting hairs when you come down to it, but I think that ultimately shit like "quantum says we can change reality by observing it with the power of our minds!!!111ELEVENTY!!" is actually a lot more insidious "sometimes Jesus will help you out, if you ask very nicely".


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:15 PM
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Schizophrenics aren't really responsible for their hallucinations

Well, maybe just a little.

Except for homeopathy, which has gained absurd penetration, I would argue that Christian anti-scientism is rather more common that newage confuso-science, unless, possibly, you live in coastal California.

None of which is to fail to rag on What The Bleep Do We Know? or, for that matter, Chiropractors.

Science has rules, jackasses. And you lose!

Fuckin' subluxations and water crystals that reflect emotion and such malarkey. Get a room and paint it purple.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:22 PM
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Ah yes, the awful hegemony of the New Agers. This is why Democratic presidential contenders must be careful not to fuck the confused New Agers amongst us


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:24 PM
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What we need is somebody to unite the tradition of crazy Christians and embarrassing new agers. A present day Lonnie Frisbee.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:26 PM
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I can sense Sifu's powerful energy a thousand miles away through the intertubes. At the moment he seems impacted, but that's just because he's ripe for a breakthrough, and his doomed engrams are resisting.

Push, Sifu!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:28 PM
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84.b: Well, for one, your examples are two of the less invidious beliefs of either worldview. And for another, I think Christianity does in fact cause more damage than New Ageism. Christianity may be more anti-intellectual, and thus less likely to take the guise of intellectualism (though it does happen), but annoyingness != harm.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:29 PM
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I was able to obviate the need for chiropractic care by using quantum physics to fix my subluxations.


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:29 PM
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90: If that involved Chinese medicine, you could apply for this job.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:33 PM
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Science has rules, jackasses. And you lose!

My god, I'm so totally embarrassed to have written this 20 minutes ago.

Ten-year-olds for Hume!

Emerson's right; musta been a blockage.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:33 PM
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85: I would argue that Christian anti-scientism is rather more common that newage confuso-science, unless, possibly, you live in coastal California.

I'd say that outside of the areas where there are economic/political conflicts going on and the "rich old bastards" wing of the Republicans is asserting its influence (climate change, energy issues and anything environmental) or most things involving sex and gender, the christian anti-science claptrap is at this point indistinguishable from the New Age bullshit, and I blame the New Agers for propagating it more than I do, say, the Evangelical movement. Like the people who refuse to vaccinate their kids, or eat genetically modified food, or use chelation therapy on their autistic kids.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:34 PM
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93: yeah, you're wrong, though.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:36 PM
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Or at least, the chains of causality are rather less clear than you make them. Vaguely protestant woo-woo has a far longer history in this country, and loopy anti-scientific ideas waaaay pre-date any kind of "new age" anything.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:37 PM
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Wait, I thought New Age tapped into ancient wisdom, though.


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:39 PM
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Katherine: for what it's worth, I'm about to move into a place that is certified lead-free (the former occupants were the owners, had a small kid, and were renovating the place anyway) in Somerville, near Teele Square, 0.6 miles from the Davis T. ~1200 sq ft, $2200/month. It's an awesome place, but I feel like I'm paying for it; it's not a great deal. The (33% cheaper, smaller, 2br) place I'm in now doesn't have lead-free certification, but it's a total gut rehab from the 1990s, so it's nearly impossible for it to have real lead. I don't actually know if it's been rented out yet, and I'm actively trying to figure that out (so I know whether I have to sell my washer and dryer). If it's still on the market, should I let you know?


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:41 PM
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Totally. It's all about recovering eastern traditions, and nothing to do with the sympathy for daffy theories that led to cornflakes are mormonism.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:43 PM
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96: Yeah, vintage ideas scrounged up at the intellectual Goodwill.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:44 PM
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If Sifu's powerful energy doesn't succeed in working through the blackage of engram resistance, Blume is going to have a hell of a mess to clean up. No one would hold it against her if she just walked away.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:47 PM
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Vaguely protestant woo-woo mostly isn't doctrinal, though. Basically, you can have all sorts of whacked-out christian pseudo-mysticism going on, and it won't necessarily be any more anti-scientific than just its baseline theism. The range of possible reconciliation of one's faith with science is a lot broader, and even within the various EXTREME! denominations, a lot less of the total belief is actually doctrinal. Ie, how pro-ecological-conservation theology is getting really popular.

The whole point of the New Age movement, though - which is basically just a continuation of the VPW-W anyway - is to believe in stupid crap, and stupid crap with supposed application in the real world. That's it's raison d'etre.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:47 PM
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Similarly, the Kabbalah Centre is about Judaism.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:47 PM
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The whole point of the New Age movement, though [...] is to believe in stupid crap, and stupid crap with supposed application in the real world. That's it's raison d'etre.

So, so different from religion.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:48 PM
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I used to have a friend who was studying the influence of neo-Nazis and ex-Nazis on the New Age movement. This is not Godwin stuff -- while he was growing up, through the parents of a friend he met some of America's unrepentant Nazis, and then much later saw some of their names on boards of New Age organizations, notably the Aquarian Foundation.

Alas, I lost touch with him. Treat as rumor.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:51 PM
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Sifu gets it exactly right.


Posted by: Mme. Blavatsky | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:55 PM
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Say, M. Blav, how come Theosophy has faded away and Anthroposophy still has a kickass (not actually) secret headquarters?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:58 PM
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So, so different from religion.

The point is that, while religion also does this, it can have redeeming qualities apart from the theology/woo-woo beliefs, and can over time reconcile those woo-woo beliefs into a less woo-woo (or at least, less harmful) form - generally by reconciling with science, per Maxwell.

New Age shit is about selling people on the idea of magical powers, and that's all it is. Hell, I think that's why you see it combined with/superimposed on more mainstream religions; they don't care about any of the ethical or moral philosophy, certainly none of the community-building and service-providing, they're just there to sell you little vials of magical oil with 1/1000th of an active dose of something, so you can vibrate your molecules with it.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:59 PM
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cornflakes are mormonism

Sifu gets it exactly right.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:59 PM
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That'd be this headquarters, dammit.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 6:59 PM
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... that lower window is strangely terrifying.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:01 PM
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Say what you will about nonsensical beliefs, biodynamic agriculture has helped some flaky, flaky people make some dang good wine.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:02 PM
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they don't care about any of the ethical or moral philosophy, certainly none of the community-building and service-providing, they're just there to sell you little vials of magical oil with 1/1000th of an active dose of something, so you can vibrate your molecules with it

No, no, you're wrong. The ex-MIL meets with a group that will create world peace through meditating it into existence. She also fixed my soul once by communing with one of my past life selves in a dream. You can only imagine how fucked up I was before she intervened! It's not just magic healing, she is going to save the world!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:03 PM
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Is this the Ugly Naked Lady?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:04 PM
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Least informative wikipedia article ever.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:05 PM
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I'm not inclined to call her a "lady," frankly. Ugly Naked Freakazoid?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:06 PM
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The practical upshot of most Christian theology is that, in addition to the community-building and service-providing elements, one should regularly attend certain public ceremonies in which honor is paid to God, without the expectation of any particular benefits resulting therefrom. It is difficult for me to see that harm in such activities, aside from wasted time.

Christian televangelists make more outlandish claims, and they have a definite impact, but they are not in the mainstream.


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:07 PM
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112: "The philosopher of science Nancy Cartwright does not believe in the fundamental laws but merely in the phenomenological laws of science[2]"

Wow. That is like the definition of ur doin it wrong. (The Wikipedia dudes, anyway, not her.)


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:09 PM
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114: Is that like having a "black box" understanding of something? Put a two in the box, turn the crank and get a four out. Put a three in and get a nine out. Ah, we've got a squarer in there but that's all I know.

I'm terribly rusty on all that.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:15 PM
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I never realized until now that a relative of mine has a wikipedia entry. I guess having been involved in anthroposophy has its benefits.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:17 PM
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Theosophy is still going strong. You just need to know the right people. It's kind of like filepile.


Posted by: Mme. Blavatsky | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:26 PM
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Bart Simpson is a philosopher of science now? Who knew?


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:26 PM
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||

So you guys won't believe this, but last night at the bar there was a guy who was making actual cock jokes! His theme was "my cock is so big that...."

The only one of them I remember clearly is "it has snow at the peak during the summer." Riffing off of that, I proposed "instead of crabs, I have sherpas."

|>


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:27 PM
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That's not really a good characterization of Cartwright.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:27 PM
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Not surprising, Ben. It really is one of the worst articles I've ever seen.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:28 PM
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Her actual article, or the really bad one that linked to her?

(Man, I should see if Professor Zero has a page, and whether his eponymous trick is documented. Or, shit, what's the Hot-or-Not for higher academics?)


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:30 PM
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"My cock is so big... when I walk down the street it scrapes along the sidewalk, chafing and bleeding!"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:30 PM
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"My cock is so big that... I always faint before achieving a full erection."


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:33 PM
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My cock is so big I used it for a world-record pole vault.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:36 PM
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My cock is so big I use it to block Yao's jump shot.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:36 PM
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125: The Wiki Sifu described that way in 114.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:37 PM
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I'm going with an olympic theme because my cock is Olympic.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:37 PM
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Topics not to get involved in: whether New Age ideas (defined willy-nilly) are evil.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:38 PM
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It turns out, parsimon, that if you put a "note to self" in a comment, everybody else can see it too.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:39 PM
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Oh. Crap.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:40 PM
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My cock is so big that no woman will even consider having sex with me and I'm stuck at home commenting on Unfogged.


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:41 PM
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I'm sure if you just clear the blockages and become a better reflection of your true, repressed self, it"ll all work out.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:45 PM
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Parsimon, they're only "evil" if you regard "Nazi" as evil. We were just objectively pointing out that New Agers are Nazis, not making a "value judgement".


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:50 PM
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135: Technically that's the Hrutr Herjolfsson Syndrome. You are incapable of pillaging and raping, and can only pillage.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:52 PM
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5X: Yeah, you want cambridge or somerville. Medford, eastie or malden in a pinch. When looking for places, take into account the fact that both Cambridge and Somerville were designed by mules. E-W travel is much easier than N-S, and the streets are laid out as spokes from the squares. If you're dying for a place in the area and have nothing , let me know. Both my brother and I are horrible people who should be shot, but we are poor and willing to rent our spare room to the truly desperate.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 7:52 PM
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137: John, the new agers I know (who are rather mild in their views, in comparison to the views sketched here, and would probably characterize themselves, if forced to do so, more as pagans) don't evangelize. That makes all the difference in the world. As far as I'm concerned, leave them alone.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 8:13 PM
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Just kidding, Parsi. Most actual New Agers I've met are harmless and sometimes very nice, though pretty unrealistic. There is some connection with Nazi occultism in a few cases, I think, but I'm not sure if it's important.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 8:23 PM
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don't evangelize. That makes all the difference in the world

Whatever the belief system, this is a pretty big point.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 8:27 PM
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A friend's parents, whom I'd always thought of as hard-core rural Mormons, are also into that water-crystals-capturing-emotions and What the Bleep Do We Know shit. I suspect it gives them a feeling of power to think that the elites are wrong about everything. And it could be the Holy Ghost arranging those water crystals.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 8:36 PM
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OT: Does anyone know where to find good Battlestar Galactica blogging? I'm back in Season 2. Battlestar Pegasus! So nasty! Yet so ... efficient.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 8:43 PM
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I think that these New Agers some of you know are not like those I've ever encountered. Huh. We may have a case here of generalizing from extreme cases. Or maybe these people are more prevalent than I realize.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 8:49 PM
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Didn't you say yours would probably categorize themselves as pagan if pressed?


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 8:50 PM
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Whatever the belief system, this is a pretty big point.

Yes. Evangalists suck.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 8:54 PM
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||

Today's Wikipedia featured article is Parapsychology. OoOooOoooooOoooOoOOooOoOoooooo (those are spooky ghost noises)

|>


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 8:54 PM
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146: Yes. I don't know this other kind that garners such anguish. The pagans still do crystals and fire ceremonies and talismans and such. And speak of the ancestors and spirit animals and old souls. It's okay with me; they still go to the doctor for ailments, though they may wind up with home remedies.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 9:01 PM
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What's striking about Wikipedia is what they don't have entries for. Nothing on John Emerson, either the noted philosopher of relationship free living, or the owner of Dred Scott. The article about blogs doesn't mention this one. While Atlantic blogger Sullivan has an entry, McArdle doesn't. Unsurprisingly, Hilzoy has an entry, and it even mentions her blogging. Katherine should have one as well, but does not.

And Wikipedia was no help in my quest to find a good account of the impeachment of the Earl of Clarendon.

In anarcho-utopia, you could expect an army of smart people looking for ways to avoid their day jobs to right such wrongs. In the real world, though, no one steps up. What will we tell the children?


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 9:30 PM
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97: yeah, sure, thanks.

It's not clear to me that a place with an old certificate that was obtained by painting over stuff is actually more likely to contain lead than a thorough rehab from the 1990s. What I really wish is that they would at least TEST places regardless of whether kids moved in so you had something to go on--I bet plenty of non-certified places are actually fine, but everyone's incentive is to just keep out families & not have to risk anything.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 9:31 PM
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"it has snow at the peak during the summer."

That sounded like one of the "big nose" jokes from Roxanne but, upon googling, it appears that it isn't. Still, I'm sure that many of them could be adapted.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 9:34 PM
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145: This seems to me not unlike the occasional tendency to equate loud-mouthed fundamentalists with Christians generally or suicide bombers with all of Islam. You're right that it's kind of shitty.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 9:50 PM
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Speaking of wikipedia, some of those FBI anthrax docs say that Ivins got into edit wars under a pseudonym.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 10:06 PM
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154 -- What would you be thinking right now, if you just found out, via FBI docs, that you'd been on the other end of one of these edit wars?


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 10:09 PM
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I tell you what I'd be thinking: quit arguing with strangers over the internet!


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 10:15 PM
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But keep arguing with yourself.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 10:21 PM
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156: Yeah, me too.

This is the username the FBI docs mention as "believed to by investigators" to be Ivins based on his e-mail usage.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 10:23 PM
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to


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 10:24 PM
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My problem with new agers, writ large, is the same problem I have with anyone who thinks god or fate or "the universe" arranges things and/or takes care of things so they needn't take responsibility for their community or politics or what have you. Not all new agers nor all "everything happens for a reason" idiots are that way, nor are all the abdicators new age or fatalistic. But in my experience there is a huge overlap in the Venn diagram.

New agers I've encountered are often extremely focused on "personal growth," believing that their own personal enlightenment via yoga or crystals or gurus is a noble act. If that's how you want to spend your time, whatever. But don't expect me to admire you for your life journey and personal healing and don't tell me I need to cleanse my aura.

Again, again, they're not all like that and there are plenty of sanctimonious and self-absorbed people of other stripes. But add womonspirit and Gaia and the magical powers of Stonehenge, and I just want to wretch.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 10:41 PM
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Yeah. I once got in a huge fight with a friend who said that her contribution to politics was "putting out a good vibe."


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 10:50 PM
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Perfect illustration.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 10:59 PM
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A friend of a friend once had a woman in a bar tell him something like "but the shaman has his electron", apparently deadly in earnest. Which is admittedly a far less infuriating sentiment, but deserves some kind of medal for excellence in self-parody


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 11:03 PM
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A new Olympic event!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 11:04 PM
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I'm worried that a shaman may have my electron as well. luckily I've got loads of them.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 11:14 PM
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165: I'm worried that a shaman may have my electron as well.

I'm pretty sure he has one of mine. In fact, I'm positive!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 11:28 PM
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You've got loads of electrons, alameida, but only one of them is really yours. Lots of electrons—but simultaneously, only one electron. If you take my meaning.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-10-08 11:51 PM
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her contribution to politics was "putting out a good vibe."

A member of the Natural Law Party, I take it.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-11-08 12:01 AM
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Take my meaning -- please!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08-11-08 12:01 AM
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166 is astonishingly funny at 7:30 a.m.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 08-11-08 12:54 AM
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Katherine is 100% right about the lead paint thing and 110% right about Boston realtors.

Katherine, you're looking in the right general areas, but that's really too broad to be helpful. What's your general budget? (Although now that I think about it, no matter what you answer I'm going to recommend something within a moderate walk to Davis Square.)


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-11-08 3:09 AM
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Kraab, there are no coincidences.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-11-08 4:22 AM
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The post reminded me of an episode in Dwight Macdonald's Henry Wallace: The Man and the Myth

The most spectacular result of Wallace's esoteric propensities was the affair of the "Zenda" letters...During the 1940 campaign, Harry Hopkins [FDR's political chief, equivalent to David Axelrod]came over to New York highly exited over a big batch of letters...purported to be written by Wallace to "Zenda," a female astrologer connected with the Roerich Museum who had once been on good terms with him but had since quarreled...Like most of the Democratic chieftains, Hopkins took the "Zelda" threat very seriously. One of the few who refused to get ruffled was Roosevelt himself, who cracked, when Anna Rosenberg rushed down to Washington with the news: Hell, couldn't we prove that Henry slept with the woman?

Back when values had a different valence in this country; I join with Macdonald in savoring FDR's attitude.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08-11-08 7:54 AM
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In the olden day we were told women were attracted to power. Nowadays more girls are taking chemistry and physics so they are no longer attracted to power. They are attracted to energy. This may seem like a small change but it is very significant. One can have energy without working. Work requires power.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 08-11-08 8:59 AM
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When Nietzsche talks about force and power, I always wondered if he knew that power was force times velocity. Probably not. He used lots of scientific metaphors, but his science seemed pretty garbled.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-11-08 9:23 AM
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173: That anecdote might have more force if apparently the ultimate reason the Repubs did not use the letters was because the Dems threatened to retaliate by exposing Wendell Wilkie's affair with Irita Van Doren (and I wonder if that context somehow fits in with FDR's remark).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-08 9:30 AM
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Hard to know, I guess. As Macdonald suggests, the democrats were panicked because the content of the letters was exactly the kind of thing Wallace just might have written, although they were pretty likely forgeries, probably by Zenda herself. She had real, innocuous letters from him—thank-you for the book sort of thing—while the dangerous letters were full of weird imagery but also merely initialed, not signed as the others were, and apparently not very well forged.

I took Macdanald's (and FDR's) point to be that here was a case where playing along for sex would have harmed Wallace's reputation less than what was all too believable: that he was actually interested in the subject.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08-12-08 7:28 AM
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Posted by: erotik market | Link to this comment | 08-15-08 9:27 AM
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thanks fine


Posted by: erotik shop | Link to this comment | 09-10-08 9:39 AM
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Posted by: sex shop | Link to this comment | 03-30-09 12:46 AM
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Posted by: Kanser | Link to this comment | 10-26-09 6:01 AM
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