Re: Conventional

1

Pacing!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 4:44 PM
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you're totally going to watch it and want to talk about it

Oh, really?


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 4:49 PM
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Conventions suck.

(BTW, who's going to buy one of these for W-lfs-n?)


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 4:59 PM
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4

Of course they are.


Posted by: jake | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 5:06 PM
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5

If I encounter the word "PUMAs" a few more times, I'm going to fly into a murderous rage.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 5:08 PM
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I'm bored 'cause he convention's taken my b away. So... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcQ1uLA9doo


Posted by: Mr. BitchPhd | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 5:08 PM
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7

Pumawoman
She votes like a moron


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 5:17 PM
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8

If you have problems with Conventions, David Lewis's book might help.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 5:24 PM
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My sister is a PUMA. It could cause serious family problems. Believe it or not, I'm the mildest mannered of her four brothers.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 5:26 PM
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9: It ain't Thanksgiving at the Emersons' 'til somebody's got an axe wound.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 5:35 PM
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I wonder how many PUMAs are cougars? We need some field research. Volunteers? Teo?


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 5:39 PM
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12

I just tuned on C-Span, and it's a bunch of awkward dancing.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 5:40 PM
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13

This'll be a dance dance revolution.


Posted by: Mr. BitchPhd | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 5:45 PM
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In fact had I the mad html skilz of some, I would do a PUMA or cougar website, with fotos from the convention as fodder. I just crack myself up.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 5:53 PM
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I'm only watching the convention if Obama stands to break Phelps' record, or does flips on the high bar, or runs the anchor leg of the relay.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 5:54 PM
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16

How about if he plays ping pong?


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 6:01 PM
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17

Wow, this is so hard to watch.


Posted by: Mr. BitchPhd | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 6:03 PM
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18

America has jumped the shark. This goes on for a whole week and how much of it is televised? More than a half hour a day? Ye gods.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 6:05 PM
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I hear that a different, more Obamier Obama is going to take the stage while the real Obama reads the speech into the soundsystem from behind the curtains.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 6:05 PM
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Four more years!

Oops, wrong election. I mean, it's time for them to go! And, it's the economy, stupid!

CNN is using the extra screen real estate of their HD feed to show a "Sound From The Floor" decibel meter-type thing, that goes from green to yellow to red as the sound in the arena increases.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 6:05 PM
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21

yawn


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 6:06 PM
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yawn

God, you fucking said it, eb. I just yawned myself, no foolin'.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 6:07 PM
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CNN is using the extra screen real estate of their HD feed to show a "Sound From The Floor" decibel meter-type thing

Unintentionally the coolest gimmick for the deaf.


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 6:24 PM
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My prediction is that when Obama gives his speech and fails to when he fails to endorse Osama bin Laden and universal socialism, he gets a ten point bounce, and and the election is never close again.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 6:36 PM
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Walt seems to be a little excited about this.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 6:38 PM
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I'll bet Obama gets a much smaller bounce than is expected - maybe not even statistically significant.

Is anyone watching PBS? What was up with Jimmy Carter's eye? I hope it looks worse than it is.


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 6:56 PM
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Tuned into CNN for a bit. "Sponsored by clean coal" is another murderous-rage-inducing phrase. Not sure if I want to see Kennedy try to speak; is it going to be painful to watch, or inspiring?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:04 PM
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Yeah, it looks weird.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:04 PM
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29

Has anyone seen those ads with T. Boone Pickens promoting his energy plan? He was on Public Radio's Living on Earth talking about alternative energy, and the guy asked him why he was advocating wind as an oil man. I don't remember his precise answers, but at some point the interviewer said that George Bush and Dick Cheney had continued to push oil and gas subsidies over alternative energy, and he just said, "Well, George Bush isn't going to be president that much longer." He seemed quite pragmatic, but I have no angle on whether his self-interest matches with good policy.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:05 PM
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30

You people are complaining about the first hour of the convention? Man, are you going to find, uh, pretty much everything a disappointment.

I love how exotic Hawaii is taking its place at the center of the national stage. America needs aloha.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:07 PM
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31

snoring


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:15 PM
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32

If this convention gets boring, we could go to a cereal convention.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:22 PM
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Footage of white people sailing does not cut the most sympathetic image. It's small of me, but I just want it out there.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:26 PM
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BG, I used to think T Boone Pickens was just thinking outside the box, and saw an opportunity to be ahead of the pack, but he seems to have some retrograde plans for the environment, as well.

Ted Kennedy's looking good. I wish him the best of health, but I wonder how much of the "We're not sure if he'll be able to speak at the convention" was stage management.


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:26 PM
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35

Ted Kennedy looks remarkably cheerful and robust. Good for him.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:27 PM
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36

I am such a fucking sap. Teddy Kennedy is making me cry.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:27 PM
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I wonder how much of the "We're not sure if he'll be able to speak at the convention" was stage management.

Are you joking? The guy has terminal brain cancer. He's probably at the convention because he knows he won't make it 'til the election.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:27 PM
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They had CNN or MSNBC or something on at the gym. They kept hyping that they weren't going to show any commercials so you wouldn't miss a minute. They did this while showing only their commenters and not Nancy Pelosi, who was speaking. You won't miss a minute of our making you miss the coverage!


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:28 PM
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39

He just pledged to be on the floor of the Senate in January.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:28 PM
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40

In lieu of watching the convention, I am alternating between playing with two new kittens, Isis and Kiriko, known as Izzy and Kiri, respectively. They both have colds, so one is in one room and one in another, and I am going back and forth, cleaning kitten snot off their faces, dosing them with vitamins, and trying to get them to eat.

We went to the shelter in search of one male kitten and came back with two female kittens. The Biophysicist has been very, very good to me and has not strangled either of them, despite the fact that Izzy peed on him at 4AM and Kiri is still not all too clear what that funny box full of sand is. It is so much easier to potty-train baby humans.

There will be pictures.


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:32 PM
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39: sure, but just try and hold him to it if he's dead.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:33 PM
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42

Both kittens will be voting for Obama.


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:35 PM
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43

39: sure, but just try and hold him to it if he's dead.

What, he's going to put up a fight?


Posted by: beamish | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:36 PM
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44

known as Izzy

I am campaigning hard for Isadore as the name of my future son, after an ancestor.

I know one girl-Izzy, but I think Isadore for a boy is ready for a comeback, but hasn't happened too much yet.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:36 PM
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A friend of mine named his recently-born son Isadore. Or maybe Isidore. It's a pretty name. And the patron saint of farmers!


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:39 PM
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46

I just switched to TiVo'd UFC reruns.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:40 PM
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Wrongshore, include in your campaigning that Isadore permits any number of nicknames. Flexibility! Freedom of choice for the boy as he grows up!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:42 PM
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Izzy Stone. Isidore Isou.

Both cool.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:43 PM
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A lurker interjects while watching the convention on cnn.com, while drinking alone, at home:
as Ted Kennedy was speaking I heard this old timey organ music in the background, a sort of soft jazz organ elevator music meant to connote peaceful sappy old age, the closing credits to a 1950s radio show; I kept thinking "what is CNN trying to do here? Diminish the action-inspiring ardor of Kennedy's speech, making it the senile swansong of a dying old man? Are they trying to turn this into a little sentimental trifle, like a lifetime achievement Oscar' acceptance speech? That's *just like them*, just like them..." Conspiratorial thoughts multiplied and compounded. Only later, I realized that I had Korla Pandit playing on my Itunes the entire time.


Posted by: XY | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:43 PM
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50

I've been alternating the convention with Arrested Development reruns on hulu.com. The combination makes me miss my family.


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:47 PM
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51

He just pledged to be on the floor of the Senate in January.

That's it, Osama Stalin Hussein is going to install the embalmed bodies of revolutionary heroes in the Capitol as his first act of office? How much more does it take for America to reject this guy?


Posted by: Jonah Goldberg | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:50 PM
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52

50: Your family resembles the Bluths?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:57 PM
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53

"Red and blue are not nearly as important as red, white and blue"?

I'm all for reconfiguring the political landscape, but that makes me want to burn a flag.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 7:58 PM
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54

Oh, Republican from Iowa. You are not raising the roof.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:00 PM
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52: Backbiting; love; political bloviating. It's like dinnertime in high school all over again.

wHo invited Kermit the Frog to speak?


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:01 PM
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56

LET THE MCCASKILL DAUGHTERS TALK!


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:07 PM
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57

Becks, they're strictly eye candy. Why can't you just enjoy?


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:08 PM
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58

The fact that I got the reference in 32 made me feel bad about myself.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:17 PM
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59

I'm kind of disturbed by the link in 6.


Posted by: ninjaphilosopher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:27 PM
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WTF?

CBS4 has now learned at least four people are under arrest in connection with a possible plot to kill Barack Obama at his Thursday night acceptance speech in Denver. All are being held on either drug or weapons charges.

CBS4 Investigator Brian Maass reported one of the suspects told authorities they were "going to shoot Obama from a high vantage point using a ... rifle ... sighted at 750 yards."

Law enforcement sources tell Maass that one of the suspects "was directly asked if they had come to Denver to kill Obama. He responded in the affirmative."


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:28 PM
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60: La, la, la! I can't hear you!


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:31 PM
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Hmmm... two black guys playing tennis against each other at the US Open on USA network, black people speaking at the convention, what is the country coming to? Thank God MSNBC has the wisdom to have Pat Buchanan on their coverage to let us know what *real* America is all about.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:38 PM
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59: I dig it.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:39 PM
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two black guys playing tennis against each other at the US Open

In the first round? Nice going, USTA. That's not racial transcendance.


Posted by: Gabriel | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:40 PM
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65

organize like a motherfucker while pretending that you're above politics: a winning strategy in the America of 2008? I say yes...


Posted by: lurker | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:44 PM
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66

I feel really bad that Obama waited for the convention to tell Michelle and the kids that he's leaving them for a white family.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:51 PM
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67

Good speech I thought. Nice nod to Clinton, etc. But really I do wonder what the point of these things is.


Posted by: ninjaphilosopher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:51 PM
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Also, how much of an idiot is Mark Shields??


Posted by: ninjaphilosopher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:53 PM
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Becks wins.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:53 PM
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30: Man, are you going to find, uh, pretty much everything a disappointment.

When it comes to Olympic coverage and political conventions, the good old days really were. I'm not going to watch carefully managed propaganda even if I agree with a lot of it. I have fond memories of staying up well into the night as the voting went on and on while my parents and their friends cheered or lamented each one.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:54 PM
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Huh. Michelle Obama's not bad, not bad at all. And I wasn't distracted by her bra strap.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:57 PM
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It's kind of like Mark Shields is the only person on PBS who doesn't have an opinion. All the historians have something interesting to say. All Shields says is that other people will decide whether Michele's speech was good.


Posted by: ninjaphilosopher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:58 PM
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73

I'm not going to watch carefully managed propaganda even if I agree with a lot of it.

I'm trying to figure out how much of our modern political discourse this leaves behind. The SOTU is obviously out, as, presumably, are most other political speeches. I guess maybe the debates are still fair game, although barely. I'm not sure where you should come out on network news.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 8:59 PM
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Man, I really like Michelle Obama. I know it's all politics, I don't know anything about these people as people, but she just seems really charming and genuine. And their daughters are gorgeous -- the big girl (I haven't got their names straight yet) being serious and dignified was so much like Sally.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:01 PM
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75

That seems like a good sign for her speech.


Posted by: ninjaphilosopher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:03 PM
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76

I like her too, but her speech, like pretty much every one given tonight, could have have used another edit or two. Hone the message, people.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:05 PM
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71: You and my mom! Oh look, you can see her left bra strap. Oh. The right one is showing now.

I thought Michelle smoked that. And it was more about her (and her family) coming across as charming and genuine (as LB said) than pitching policy. She was grand.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:10 PM
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78

76: give it a couple days. The first couple days of the convention are boring by design.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:10 PM
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79

Oh, yeah, the speech was pap. Inoffensive, but nothing really to it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:11 PM
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80

Okay I just made that up. Why would they do that? Of course it's not supposed to be boring.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:11 PM
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81

You and my mom!

I couldn't help it. I might have been a little distracted by it.

But no, excellent speech, well-delivered for what I assume it was intended to do.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:14 PM
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78: Dude, see 30. But it's not as though it costs a lot to hone a few remarks.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:16 PM
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As always, I am amazed at the bizarre job that is being spouse of someone aspiring to the presidency (and how about Cindy McCain going to Georgia for fuck's sake?).

Don't tell Larry Johnson, but if you play Michelle's speech backwards you can hear her say, "Whitey's going' down!"


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:19 PM
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||

Now that I live alone I have started experimenting with cooking stuff.

Tonight: what every white person likes, kale. sauteed.

I am surprised by how little flavor it has. Maybe I should have let it sit there until it got completely limp.

|>


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:47 PM
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So I went out in the pouring fucking rain tonight to eat pizza with friends. We ate the pizza and then we drank a few beers and then we had a few shots: first, a shot of Black Velvet in honor of Telly; then a shot of vodka in memory of Kerensky's government of 1917; and then, another shot of vodka to mark the production of Peter Watkins' La Commune (Paris, 1871).

I got home just in time to watch Michelle Obama. Who was great as those things go. I laughed at the accompaniment of "Isn't she lovely ..." But no question, she's cool and accomplished and hot and wow ... I'd love to see her stomp around as First Lady for four years or more. And those little girls are freakin' adorable: "Where are you Daddy?" "I'm in Kansas City." They mad me think of my niece when I was in Kansas City. ("Guess where I am?" "I know. You're in Kansas City," she said, unimpressed. (Because we'd spent the previous several weeks singing Fats Domino's "Going to Kansas City."))


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:48 PM
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86

that was smart, to humanize and just-folks the family.


Posted by: fl | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:52 PM
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87

I give 87 a 60% chance of being Lontana Fabs and a 40% chance of being the ToS.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:53 PM
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88

87 86

maybe this kale is poisoning my mind with intoxicants.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:53 PM
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89

Well, you would know. I'm betting it's you, though.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:54 PM
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90

73: It pretty much leaves all of the TV coverage out. But I don't see that as "discourse". It's 99.9% just selling soap, and I can read the transcript of a debate in a small fraction of the time it took to air it.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:54 PM
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It was briefly 87. Keep eating your kale; it's crammed full of anti-oxidants.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:55 PM
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92

Soap is very handy.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 9:55 PM
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93

I make hearty greens like kale like so: First, I parboil it in salted water and drain, and squeeze out excess liquid. Then I chop it roughly. I slowly saute onions in some olive oil until they are very very soft and golden, and add a minced clove of garlic. At that point I turn the heat to medium-high and add the greens. I saute, stirring constantly, so that the greens are well coated, and if necessary, add more salt. This ensures that the flavors mingle well, that the greens truly saute instead of stewing in their liquid, and that there is no excess liquid to make the oil slip off the greens instead of clinging to them.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:00 PM
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66 is really funny. Do I need to know the reference? I've not been watching.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:00 PM
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Saute your kale in shallots with a little beer and some roasted peppers, or bacon fat if you're into that. Oh, and blanch in salty water first for a few seconds?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:01 PM
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Oh 93 pwns me. No beer, then! I like a few teaspoons in my greens.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:02 PM
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97

Oh dear. Parboiling is a form of blanching, isn't it?


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:03 PM
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Beer sounds good! My inclination would be to add it either well before the greens, to let it cook down and meld into a sauce with the other ingredients, or at the very end, after the saute has sauteed.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:05 PM
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What kind of kale is it? Also, dear CSA farmer: what is the point of all this Swiss chard? (yes, parsimon, I know.)

Anyway, black/lacinato kale sauteed in garlic, cayenne pepper and lots of olive oil is hearty, delicious and just great generally.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:06 PM
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Beer sounds good! My inclination would be to add it either well before the greens, to let it cook down and meld into a sauce with the other ingredients, or at the very end, after the saute has sauteed.

fishbasket: your comment had all these weird words after that first part, but I fixed it for you.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:07 PM
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I am surprised by how little flavor it has.

I am surprised by your surprise. Look, the reason why some people (Moosewood-y Cookbook-y types, say) say things like, "Though much-maligned by the Chicken McNugget crowd, kale has its own uniquely biting charm when left unadulterated. Let its lovely acridity wash over you as you dream of vistas unknown, and by all means do develop a taste for it" (yes, I just made that quote up, and yes, it's an unfair caricature) is that, for most people, kale doesn't taste very good at all, no matter what you do to it. At best you can hide its real flavour, really, while enjoying its nutritional and phytochemical benefits. Don't even believe anyone who urges you to experience the authentic purity of kale (the person who would tell you that is probably not really your friend): you should at least fry it up with some garlic or something.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:15 PM
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See I was expecting it to be bit5ing. Fresh, it smelled like mustard greens. But then it tastes like spinach, only less so.

if it had been soaking up the taste of garlic or bacon or something I would not detect the taste at all.

"What kind of kale is it?" Um, there was the kind with the red ribs, and then the all green kind. this was the all green kind.

Hearty and good with pork.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:19 PM
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Back when I was living very cheaply, mostly on Annie's mac n cheese, my roommate and I would get our hands on a little kale, and throw it into the boiling pasta shortly before draining it and mixing with the cheese sauce. That was quite a lovely feast for us.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:20 PM
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I knew this would be a captivating topic.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:22 PM
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OT?: This comment probably belongs on Comics Curmudgeon, but I found this paragraph about Biden deeply odd and strangely moving. After his wife and daughter were killed in a car accident, Biden was (obviously) pretty depressed and angry at God, but then(!):

What also helped break his rift with God was a cartoon his father, Joe Biden Sr., gave him. It showed "Hagar the Horrible" blasted by lightning. The bubble read, "Why me, God" - and the answer: "Why not." Biden says: "I realized, who am I to think that I'm so special?"

Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:23 PM
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106

Is that the funniest comment Mary Catherine has ever written?


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:24 PM
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107

Kale is boss. It tastes like money.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:24 PM
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108

Also, Peter, one thing I find really helpful is to take the Cajun advice of mixing different greens in odd numbers. Odd numbers are luckier, but the culinary advice is solid. Collards, mustards, and kale together are really wonderful.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:25 PM
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107: kale's song

108: First one must become accustomed with each thing individually before combining them, or that sounds logical anyway.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:29 PM
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Kale is so much more awesome than Conventions. Contra Mary Catherine Moosewood is also awesome.


Posted by: ninjaphilosopher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:32 PM
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109: Actually, I like them better in combination than individually, but I think that's because each of them has a strong good flavor and a lingering bad flavor, which each of their strong good flavors covers over when mixed. I wouldn't just, like, eat a mess of mustard greens--too sharp. Collards have a faint burnt-tire aftertaste, and kale has something too vegetationy about it, but all in the same dish, none of those secondary characteristics stands out.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:32 PM
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112

I had some really awesome collards the other day with shreds of smoked turkey mixed in. Maybe even better than ham hock.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:36 PM
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104: I knew this would be a captivating topic.

Yep. Kale, kale, the gang's all here.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:39 PM
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102: Oh, that kind of kale. It's good lightly sautéed, whipped into a mousse with crème fraîche and truffle oil, dipped in bittersweet chocolate and coated with gold leaf. That's how I make it, anyway.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:41 PM
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AWB, check your e-mail.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:44 PM
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That was quite a lovely feast for us.

Ever seen the movie Babette's Feast? Because, you know, ramen noodles (or Annie's so-called organic prefab mac'n-cheese) with a bit of greens thrown into the mix but more for virtue than for flavour, is pretty much at the pinched and parsimonious and life-denying end of the spectrum (which sometimes just has to do with money, of course, but still: there's the spirit of the thing). God, grad school food was so weird: such a high premium placed on the novel and the imported, which you couldn't even afford, so you'd attend any sort of boring faculty function just to eat those chunks o' cheddar on a toothpick. But that was how I first heard of cilantro, which I truly love (which I had sort of previously heard of as coriander, but I never knew you could actually eat that).


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:51 PM
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I have yet to eat a green I don't like.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:56 PM
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117: apostropher: taking out the Nader vote one by motherfucking one.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 10:57 PM
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118 is awesome as the kids say.


Posted by: Tiny Hermaphrodite | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:03 PM
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At best you can hide its real flavour, really, while enjoying its nutritional and phytochemical benefits.

My method: saute some garlic in sesame oil+some plain oil (vegetable, whatever), add some crushed red pepper and then the kale. Cook for a couple minutes, then toss in some soy sauce and a generous splash of water; reduce heat, cover, and let it go for a few minutes.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:03 PM
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Misguided idealism tastes like pecan pie.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:06 PM
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Are people really suggesting that kale isn't good?

Finely chiffonaded kale makes a decent addition to a brown butter + sage sauce. You could add some finely diced butternut squash to that, too, if you wanted. Maybe some chopped walnuts.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:09 PM
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Cala's method works for leafy anything.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:09 PM
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am i not "white people" i don't like kale. I like arugula (roquette) tho


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:14 PM
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it taste like a salad green, but with some extra unpleasantness too. i mostly stick to redleaf lettuce with lots of viengar.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:15 PM
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123 is correct, but 122 sounds very, very good.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:17 PM
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Are people really suggesting that kale isn't good?

Just Mary Catherine, but she hates everything. Except bears.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:21 PM
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Yeah, and now I see that what she's saying is something like eating it raw, by itself, isn't good. Weak!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:24 PM
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If you have to gover it up for it to be good...


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:27 PM
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You could add some finely diced butternut squash to that, too, if you wanted.

Yeah, just if you happened to have some finely diced butternut squash on hand (and who doesn't! or wouldn't!), you could do that, I guess, if you felt the inclination.

It's true what Apo says: I hate everything but bears. And doughnuts.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:32 PM
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Why would you have finely diced butternut squash on hand? No: you have a squash on hand, and you dice it as needed.

(And, if it's fall or winter, why wouldn't you have some such squash on hand? Them things is delicious.)


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:33 PM
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You can make a tasty, nutritious, and cheap soup with just butternut squash, red lentils, ginger, and hot peppers.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:35 PM
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And water.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:37 PM
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You can make a tasty, nutritious, and cheap soup with just butternut squash, red lentils, ginger, and hot peppers.

That does sound tasty, but I'm suspicious of the hot peppers. Would I have to wear gloves? Also, I hate cutting squash, I'm always afraid I'm going to lose a finger. Tips and tricks? (I'm convinced you're going to end up writing a food column one of these days, and philosophy be damned...).


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:43 PM
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Let the ingredients speak for themselves, adulterater.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:44 PM
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Crap, 135 to 133.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 08-25-08 11:45 PM
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You could add some finely diced butternut squash to that, too, if you wanted.

Eeech. Do not want.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 12:23 AM
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Kale and/or spring greens are nice, though. Cooked with garlic, onion and chilli as described above. With some bacon lardons, or whatever.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 12:24 AM
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if you ever feel like your greens aren't doing it for you, make some pepper vinegar by heating up chopped peppers with vinegar and some sugar, and dousing the greens with that. chopped ginger can also be nice in there. but kale is good, mustards are good, beet greens, chard--it's all good, as apo rightly notes.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:33 AM
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Michelle was beautiful.


Posted by: waldo | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:13 AM
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God, this reading unfogged early while up with Kai is really screwing up my cravings. Now I want to go out to the garden to pick some kale and cook it up (rfts's method is also my preference, but I skip the parboiling; I appreciate her logic, but c'mon). Trouble is, I don't usually eat anything savory until late morning.

Also: wtf am I supposed to do with kale in summer? I have all this damn kale in the garden, and to me it's a winter green (I know, the South, etc. But this is MY weird conception). In the summer I want to eat raw veggies, all the time. I've actually been eating so many tomatoes (and other veg) that I'm feeling a bit meat-deprived - at the drop of a hat, I'm ready to run out for a burger for lunch, although it's totally not in the budget.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:24 AM
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I appreciate her logic, but c'mon

C'mon you! It hardly takes any extra time, as you can do it while the onions are cooking. Also, you can do it a day or few ahead of time, which makes your greens take up far, far less space in the fridge.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:32 AM
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Also, you can do it a day or few ahead of time, which makes your greens take up far, far less space in the fridge.

OK, now you've got my attention.

It's not the extra time, it's the extra pot, and the additional heat/steam - my kitchen's the warmest room in the house, year-round*, so I don't put a big pot on to boil lightly.

That said, I'll try it your way.

Oh, and whoever mentioned greens with smoked turkey was right on. I don't know about "better than a ham hock," but it's damn tasty.

* OK, late summer afternoon, it's the 3rd floor, but whatever


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:37 AM
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OK, now you've got my attention.

It's true; this is a major selling point of the method for me, too.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:39 AM
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Can we please have a cooking class at the next Unfogged DCon???


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:43 AM
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If you blanch the kale a little longer (five or ten minutes or so? So it's really kind of cooked), and chiffonade it into thin little shreds, and mash it into mashed potatoes with loads of butter, they're a beautiful bright green and very traditionally Irish. And tasty, too -- not strongly flavored, but like potatoes with a really fresh vegetable taste.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 7:42 AM
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Kale: the rock that burns.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 7:43 AM
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||

Jonathan Chait "McCain = Walter Sobchak"meme.

Not that it isn't obvious. But you heard it here first.

Am I credited? Of course not. I control the blogosphere from my secret location and let others take the credit.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 8:02 AM
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"Jonathan Chait has picked up...."

|>


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 8:06 AM
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Whoops. He picked it up long before I wrote it.

Forget I said anything.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 8:15 AM
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Good, Emerson. Let the curtain fall back into place. Don't want people getting wise.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 8:18 AM
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Where the fuck is everybody, anyhow? You didn't have all the other commenters killed, did you?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 8:18 AM
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I didn't feel the need, Sifu, but that doesn't mean I never will.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 8:31 AM
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146: OK, that's done it. Now - on a breathtakingly beautiful summer day - I'm craving one of my best dead-of-winter recipes, pork chops smothered with collard greens, garnished with bacon and with buttermilk mashed potatoes on the side.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 8:35 AM
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If you blanch the kale a little longer (five or ten minutes or so? So it's really kind of cooked), and chiffonade it into thin little shreds, and mash it into mashed potatoes with loads of butter, they're a beautiful bright green and very traditionally Irish.

Substitute chard for the kale and creme fraiche for the butter, and add pancetta and cantal cheese, and you have truffade de la vachellerie, a tasty recipe from Madeleine Kamman.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 8:36 AM
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146: Colcannon! yum. Also good with regular green cabbage. Might make this tonight, although I don't usually peel spuds before boiling. (Irish people, almost alone in the world, like potatoes to be floury rather than waxy, and those varieties generally cook better in their skins.)


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 8:37 AM
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This just in: A new attack ad by the McCain campaign that targets Obama's children. "Cute, but are they ready to lead."
"[W]e had to do something to give the American people some straight talk on those two brats," Sen. McCain said today.

What a low-life scum !!!
Here is a link ...
http://www.borowitzreport.com/


Posted by: swampcracker | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 8:52 AM
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Hey, having a semi-theatre background I can appreciate pageantry. The problem is that after the Beijing Olympics it will be really hard to measure up on the pageantry scale, so I'm not planning on watching any of it.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 9:07 AM
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145: Can we please have a cooking class at the next Unfogged DCon???

I want one too. I was looking into taking one at the Boston Center for Adult Education. I asked them whether they had any financial aid or other discounts. They said that the only way they did that was if I wanted to be the assistant for the class which required arriving an hour early and staying about an hour afterwards. I bet that it would take me a little longer than that.

You still get charged for the materials. The only thing is that since people normally take the intro courses as a series of three, you're supposed to agree to all three courses. You have to pay the full amount up front, and then they'll refund you the tuition portion if you did a good enough job.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 10:41 AM
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I could offer a cooking class, were I able to attend UnfoggedCons, because I make tasty food, but most of my cooking ability comes down to one of four options: a) when in doubt, add more garlic b) when in doubt, add more salt c) when in doubt, add more butter d) when in doubt, add more hot pepper.

Also, roasted garlic is just wonderful.

But seriously, I learned to cook by reading recipes and not being afraid to screw stuff up.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 10:52 AM
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re: 156

My people like 'em floury, too. Because those are the ones that respond to the True Potato Ways [deep-frying, shallow frying, or mashing].


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 11:32 AM
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I'm amused by the Barack-in-the-Box.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 11:33 AM
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My people like 'em floury, too. Because those are the ones that respond to the True Potato Ways [deep-frying, shallow frying, or mashing].

They also respond well to baking; is that a True Potato Way?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 11:50 AM
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a) when in doubt, add more garlic b) when in doubt, add more salt c) when in doubt, add more butter d) when in doubt, add more hot pepper.

Sounds about right to me, although an NFA->DFA conversion might be useful.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 11:55 AM
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They also respond well to baking; is that a True Potato Way?
Of course, as is roasting in meat juices. In fact, I suspect that it's only bread or rice eating cultures like the French and Italians and Spanish who prefer the waxy ones, because they don't really understand what to do with them.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 11:55 AM
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I prefer my potatoes gelatinous and slightly leaky.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 11:58 AM
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I can't believe you people have been talking about greens again.

99: Also, dear CSA farmer: what is the point of all this Swiss chard? (yes, parsimon, I know.)

Funnily, I brought it up with our CSA farmer last week on the phone, and heard from him later that, inspired by this, he's written a lengthy disquisition on chard for this week's newsletter, which essentially explains (a) that he planted a third of the amount of chard he did last year, but a different variety, which has, shall we say, prospered; (b) chard is really good for you, etc.; so (c) quit yer whining and eat yer chard, dumbass.

I actually think he's flirting with me.

More on point: all the advice to saute greens this way and that are fine and time-honored, but I find that it results in something that's more of a side dish to be accompanied by something more robust. I cook vegetarian in such a way that I tend to make one-dish, or -pot, or -skillet meals. I want to incorporate the kale or chard into something larger. Making a mess of sauteed greens leaves me wondering what to serve it with. I can come up with things, of course, but it's not the principal way I prefer to cook. Despite all these obstacles, I seem to be managing.

My understanding re: potatoes is that floury, waxy, etc. are best suited for particular purposes.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 12:42 PM
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Making a mess of sauteed greens leaves me wondering what to serve it with

QUINOA!!!!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 12:43 PM
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Spanish who prefer the waxy ones, because they don't really understand what to do with them.

But! BUT! Tortilla española is delightful!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 12:46 PM
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So are pommes anna, for that matter.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 12:47 PM
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Tree potatoes are delicious, and not waxy at all.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 12:48 PM
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Actually, some people put a thin layer of wax on tree potatoes, to increase that healthy-looking shine.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 12:49 PM
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Golden potatoes aren't waxed, though; maybe you were thinking of those?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 12:50 PM
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The future of rock music in Virginia is people who say things like "But! BUT! Tortilla española is delightful!"?

what has happened to the South?


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 12:51 PM
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Why must we drive a wedge between the waxy and the floury? Vive la différence, I say.

Incidentally, speaking of potatoes, did you know that, in the same way that gay white men who prefer Asians are often known as 'rice queens', gay Japanese men who prefer Caucasians are known as 'potato queens'? It's true.

Anyway, now that I know what to do with this backlog of chard, what should I do with these beet greens?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 12:53 PM
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174: I'm an interloper in the south, born of Yankee stock up north. And tortilla española *is* delightful; admit it.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 12:55 PM
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what should I do with these beet greens?

You could eat them.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 12:59 PM
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172: I was thinking of saponilla.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:02 PM
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Oh, thanks, ben. That hadn't occurred to me.

Anyone else?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:02 PM
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what has happened to the South?

There's still the Drive-By Truckers.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:03 PM
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178 cont'd: which was probably what led to the confusion. When I said I was thinking of saponilla, I meant sapodilla.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:05 PM
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168: QUINOA!!!!

Sure. If I can put some small red beans on top of that, I'm cool.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:05 PM
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161: I was thinking of Scottish people as one of the the other exceptions, alright. AFAIK in the rest of the UK the popular varieties are less waxy than French ones but less floury than Irish ones.

Other Scottish/Irish commonalities: red lemonade, size of pub measures of spirits.


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:10 PM
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size of pub measures of spirits.

You talking like imperial pints, here?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:11 PM
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Beet greens? VERY good for you. Duh. But, uh, all I've ever done is mix them with chard and use as I would the chard. Adds a truly nice interesting mix. Obviously you can saute them alone and use as a lone side-dish, like any other green.

I've never had enough of them to try them solo as the green added to a soup, or with eggs, or in a pasta dish, or with beans. If I found myself drowning in them, I guess I'd just try sauteeing a bunch on their own and going with my taste intuitions on these other uses.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:12 PM
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If I found myself drowning in them, I guess I'd just try sauteeing a bunch on their own and going with my taste intuitions on these other uses.

That seems like it would take too long. I would argue for trying to claw your way to the top of them and call for help.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:14 PM
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NFA->DFA conversion might be useful.

? Je ne pas compris.

Why must we drive a wedge between the waxy and the floury? Vive la différence, I say.

Whee! I love potatoes. I think my preference tends toward waxy little potatoes because they can be roasted with olive oil, rosemary, and garlic. But potatoes are nice.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:19 PM
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Standard Irish pub measure - 1/4 gill
Standard Scottish pub measure - either 1/5 or 1/4 gill, depending on local tradition
Standard English pub measure - 1/6 gill.
Now usually 35 ml in Ireland and Scotland and 25 ml in England. No idea about Wales but temperance is apparently a big thing there so probably the smaller ones.


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:20 PM
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Beet greens are almost disconcertingly sweet -- I've had them few enough times that I haven't worked out exactly what I think should be done about this. But cooking them with something sour or sharp tasting would, I think, be a good idea. (Or just going with the sweet -- there's a Samoan dish of young taro leaves baked in coconut cream (my vocabulary is almost gone. Might be called la'au? And if it's wrapped up in a leaf and baked in the leaf packet, I think that's palusami.)that I was reminded of by beet greens. It'd be interesting to try just making the same stuff with beet greens and seeing how it turned out.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:30 PM
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186: I would argue for trying to claw your way to the top of them and call for help.

You have no idea how often it feels that way. When you open the fridge and realize that bags of greens are either going to fall out on top of you, or you'll have to empty half the fridge to see what else is in there. I say! It's annoying!

I'm really liking rfts's suggestion to saute the stuff forthwith and store for later use. Thanks, rfts. Unfogged is love.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:32 PM
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Beet greens are almost disconcertingly sweet

Good information. Combine with sour/sharp. Helpful!

Now why don't any of my numerous cookbooks have good explanations of the qualities of these respective greens? I have books on grains, just grains, for example. Any number of books calling for chard or spinach but telling me that kale, or some random mix, will work too. Books with receipts calling specifically for mustard greens, say; but no explanation included as to why it should be just these.

Jesus McQ: do you have a compost pile?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:42 PM
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Green Cookbook


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:44 PM
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188: who says english measures are confusing?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:46 PM
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I don't currently have a compost pile, partly because the recycling program here takes yard debris and partly because even the minimal maintenance a compost pile requires is more than we (which is to say I, since I'd be doing it) could commit to.

I'll probably just sauté the greens. They have tiny beets attached—cute!

On preview, 192 gives me an even better idea.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:49 PM
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I want to incorporate the kale or chard into something larger.

I have a recipe for a Portuguese-style turkey coup using kale, sausage, and potatoes.

I realize that that's 2 problem ingredients, but it's a brilliant combo. The turkey part is irrelevant, and the sausage basically indicates fat, garlic, and spice, so you could improvise on that. Moving in an Italian direction, cannelini and parmigiano rind would round out the dish.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 1:57 PM
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Turkey coups aren't bloodless, but can be dry if not staged properly.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:01 PM
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Also, portuguese kale soup is freakin' great, but what does it have to do with turkey?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:02 PM
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Apo, no problem there.

A compost pile isn't that much work if you have the yard space. You keep two of them, add fresh stuff to the second and let the first continue to sit until you use it,* then swap out and start adding again to the first, letting the second one now sit. (Make sense?) We don't stir them or anything, not much aside from not being dumb about what to put on there and where. Works fine. I'm aware that there are sciences, strategies and varieties to these things.

* When you use it is where the work comes in: shovel, sift, sift, shovel, sift, sift. Still! We've wound up with canteloupes spontaneously growing in the garden. Seeds, you know.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:02 PM
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I'm really liking rfts's suggestion to saute the stuff forthwith and store for later use. Thanks, rfts. Unfogged is love.

You're welcome! Just to be sure: the tip is to parboil ahead -- only saute (or add to soup, or whatever) when you're ready to eat it.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:04 PM
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Right. Parboiling is blanching, no? And the blanched greens will last for 2-3 days okay?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:09 PM
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Why the fuck Did Bill Clinton say, "You have candidate X with whom you agree on 100% of the issues, but who you don't think is going to be effective and candidate Y who you only agree with on 50% of the issues but has a lot of experience, who are you going to vote for?" Or somethign along those lines. Ugh.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:12 PM
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Right, but you don't have to plunge the greens into cold water when you're done. For really sturdy greens (like, say, collards, or particularly old tough kale) I cook them in the boiling water a bit longer than you would think of as blanching, too, because to my taste, they can use the extra softening.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:13 PM
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Why the fuck Did Bill Clinton say,

Because he's a dickhead.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:15 PM
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202: Got it. Thanks.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:21 PM
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Also, portuguese kale soup is freakin' great, but what does it have to do with turkey?

The recipe I have for it uses leftover T-giving turkey as a base.

Isn't there a bright green Portuguese soup with kale? That's not this one.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:23 PM
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Bright green? Not that I've seen. The one I've seen is (oh, I get it) some kind of stock base, with lumps 'o potato and linguica, and kale in there, and, I dunno, spices.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:25 PM
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"Rising supermarket prices are persuading hundreds of families to turn their back gardens into mini-ranches stocked with miniature cattle."

"Registrations of the most popular breed, the Dexter, have doubled since the millennium and websites are sprouting up offering "the world's most efficient, cutest and tastiest cows".

"For between £200 and £2,000, people can buy a cow that stands no taller than a large German shepherd dog, gives 16 pints of milk a day that can be drunk unpasteurised, keeps the grass "mown" and will be a family pet for years before ending up in the freezer. "

Has anyone encountered any of these schmoo-like pets?



Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:30 PM
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and will be a family pet for years before ending up in the freezer.

Yumm. Fido.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:34 PM
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That's a big goddamn german shepherd.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:34 PM
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Maybe the cow stands on four legs as tall as the german shepherd stands on twolegs.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:37 PM
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That's a big goddamn german shepherd.

Maybe the human is kind of a little guy. My aunt and uncle have a (large) german shepherd whose head easily comes up to my waist. That said, a cow who stood as tall as her would still outmass her by a lot.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:41 PM
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PS. That cow is adorable.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:41 PM
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207 sounds like an excellent solution to my landscaping woes.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:51 PM
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Do cows have to be constantly in a pregnant or post-natal state in order to give milk? I wouldn't want to confine my cow to outmoded gender roles, but the milk would be nice.

A sheep would probably be more efficient for mowing the lawn, though. The cow would probably require more food than a small house's lawn would provide.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:57 PM
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I want a cow that can live in my apartment on those containers of cat-grass they sell in the petfood aisle.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:58 PM
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214.2: I think there's someone in SF who rents out goats for landscaping purposes.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 2:59 PM
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206: Yeah, that's it. I feel like I recently read about a soup with pureed greens, but who knows?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 3:04 PM
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Do cows have to be constantly in a pregnant or post-natal state in order to give milk?

I know that goats do. So you get the goat pregnant every year (preferably using a male goat), and you have a kid roast every spring.

My goat-keeping fantasy involves keeping the goat at the parklet at the end of the street. Think about it, Public Works: no more mowing!.

Ideally, of course, the dog would escort the goat to the park each day, guard it, and then bring it home in the evening.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 3:07 PM
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I think a cow, even that size, would need a litter box the size of a swimming pool.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 3:11 PM
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I think a cow, even that size, would need a litter box the size of a swimming pool.

That is just another benefit. You can burn the cow chips for warmth after we run out of natural gas and oil for heating.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 3:16 PM
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No! The cow chips make it unnecessary to laboriously construct a compost pile yourself.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 3:26 PM
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I've seen mastiffs that big.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 3:48 PM
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Is there anyone around here who's got useful advice about landscape gardening for a completely shaded patch of land currently absolutely covered with ivy and with soil consisting of a thin layer of dust over an underpinning of chunks of concrete and tin cans? We just got promoted to volunteers with keys at the community garden down the street (run by the extremely formidable very old guy who has the NYC Parks Department terrorized. He's lovely, but tough.) and I'm having vague thoughts about acquiring and planting whatever would be some bright, pretty, bird-friendly yet completely low-maintenance shrubbery, preferably NY State native plants. The garden as it is now is peaceful, but very dark green and ivy covered.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 3:55 PM
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fern gully!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 3:57 PM
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English measures confusing? Michael Faraday will demonstrate:

I have taken a pint and a cubic foot as the measures, and have placed opposite to them the respective figures. A pint measure of this hydrogen weighs three-quarters of our smallest weight, a grain, and a cubic foot weighs one-twelfth of an ounce; whereas a pint of water weighs 8,750 grains, and a cubic foot of water weighs almost 1,000 ounces. You see, therefore, what a vast difference there is between the weight of a cubic foot of water and a cubic foot of hydrogen.

Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 3:58 PM
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Also, don't bright things usually need sunlight?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 3:58 PM
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I was thinking vaguely of some sort of forest-understory type shrub that wouldn't want light, but would put out brightly colored berries that birds would eat. Whether there are shrubs fitting these specs, I'm not sure -- I could actually do some research, but I was hoping the lazyweb would hand me a lurker saying "Actually, ma'am, I've just written my PhD thesis on 'Landscape Gardening with Native Plants in Climate Zone [whatever] On The Eastern Seaboard: Shade Tolerant Shrubbery.' Let me give you a list of nurseries, and the species you want to ask for."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 4:02 PM
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I have a rich, full, but surprisingly unenterprising fantasy life.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 4:10 PM
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LB- a good nursery in your area can help you. What you are looking for does exist, but my gardening knowledge is very limited. You can also google Native Plants New York and see what you come up with. Throw in words like "organic" or "bird friendly" and see what else comes up.

BTW... I am REALLY freaking out about Hillary's speech tonight.
I am so fearful that if she and Bill don't endorse Obama in ernest, that she will be the Ralph Nader of 2008. Her legacy will look a lot different if that is the case.


Posted by: Fleur | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 4:18 PM
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I'm reasonably confident she'll be gracious and supportive -- I think she was prepared to tear his liver out as long as she thought she had a chance at the nomination, but I don't see any way that tearing him down helps her now (that is, the 'torpedo Obama so I can run and win in '12' plan sounds very unlikely to me).

And yeah, I just need to do some research. I wonder if you can plant shrubs in the fall -- I have this vague belief that that's the right time to do it, after the first frost, but my gardening knowledge is very slight. I do love compost heaps, though.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 4:26 PM
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LB- perhaps if you say "Ni" to an unsuspecting old lady Roger the Shrubber will appear.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 4:35 PM
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NFA->DFA conversion might be useful.

? Je ne pas compris.

Well, you've reached a certain state in your cooking process, right? You're at the "taste and see if it's good" node, say. And now you've got a problem: if it turns out that you're in doubt, you've got four separate transitions for that. So it's nondeterministic.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:09 PM
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Where's the joy in deterministic cooking?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:13 PM
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Anyhow, Ben, I see no reason to assume a binary node.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:14 PM
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LB -- I have forwarded your query to a friend who is a landscaping guy. We shall see if he knows anything.

I think she was prepared to tear his liver out

LIKE A MONSTER????


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:19 PM
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Embarrassingly, I don't know what you mean by "binary node".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:21 PM
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That is, the state at the node need hardly be a binary indication of goodness. If we imagine a four dimensional binary goodness vector, the required adulteration will be clear as day.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:26 PM
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Well, I didn't assume that. "I'm in doubt" isn't the only possible result of the testing—"it's fine" and "it's unredeemable" are also plausible results.

And all Cala's instructions said was "when in doubt ... ". Adding different dimensions of doubt is just the sort of disambiguation I was calling for, silly man.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:28 PM
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Well but if we take "doubt" to be the multidimensional vector mentioned above, then the process as described wouldn't be nondeterministic at any point.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:31 PM
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I am adamant in maintaining that the instructions "a) when in doubt, add more garlic b) when in doubt, add more salt c) when in doubt, add more butter d) when in doubt, add more hot pepper." do not provide deterministic guidance as to what to do when "in doubt" (because "in doubt" is too coarse-grained). Providing multiple dimensions of doubt would render the instructions "a) when in doubt as to whether there's enough garlic, add more garlic b) when in doubt as to whether there's enough salt, add more salt", &c.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:37 PM
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There is another possibility: maybe when Cala is in doubt, she adds all of those ingredients serially. Or maybe she adds then one at a time, in the order listed.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:45 PM
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I am in doubt about what sort of doubt to be in.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:45 PM
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Sorry adds them one at a time with a binary doubt check between each.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:45 PM
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What if this algorithm finds a local maximum but misses the tasty goodness that results from a completely different configuration of garlic/salt/butter/pepper? To do something like simulated annealing would probably require the ability to remove garlic/salt/etc.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:53 PM
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i think she describes being in doubt not about whether there's enough something particular, but just generally, whether her cooking is tasty enough and tries to correct its taste qualities by adding garlic and other ingredients


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:55 PM
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||

McCain takes fucking Ambien? Jesus christ! The only way he could get any scarier as a potential president is if he took control of his plane and tried to crash it.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:56 PM
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|>


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:56 PM
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Local maxima are as much as is given to humankind to hope for, essear.

The global maximum is divine.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:56 PM
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McCain was recently endorsed by a famous Usenet troll.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 5:58 PM
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For supper tonight we had these beans and turnip greens, topped with pickled red onion and crumbled white cheese. I would have made a tomato salad to go with, but the tomatoes we bought at the farmer's market this week turned out to be bleah.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:04 PM
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My teevee just told me that HRC is not going to use her time to attack John McCain, but rather to talk about her own historic run for office!

Please just let that be TeeVee Man causing trouble.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:21 PM
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Because of your enthusiasm and, I admit it, the Rancho Gordo guy's blog, I bought some Rancho Gordo beans this saturday (Rio Zape), rfts. They'd better be good, or I'm hunting you and snark down.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:26 PM
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I bring you Unfogged comments live from the "blogger lounge" at the pepsi center. I get to watch Janet Napolitano on a TV WITHOUT fancy graphics running across the bottom of the screen!


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:27 PM
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240: But the pathway for a)-d) is recipe dependent. Some things will never need salt or garlic, let alone more, and some things will never need heat. (If you think this is confusing, never ask me for a recipe, because all of the proportions will be 'enough.' 'not too much' 'to taste.')

248 is awesome.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:27 PM
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253: go rub Oliver Willis's head. Dare ya!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:28 PM
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Please mentally relocate "(Rio Zape)" to immediately follow "beans" in 252.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:28 PM
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those are pretty beans.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:29 PM
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Saturday was Rio Zape. I remember it well: all the children in their capes and hats, the adults drunk on elberberry wine, even the police laughing up on stilts as they tried to pee on the oatmeal vendor.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:30 PM
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Elberberry wine is very popular in the Czech Republic.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:31 PM
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If they are good, then what will you do?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:32 PM
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Ah, Rio Zape in sunny Las Los!


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:32 PM
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I'll send you some jam.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:36 PM
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248: Just wait until I write my magnum opus on genetic algorithms for optimization in the kitchen, Now You're Cooking With GAs!


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:37 PM
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BURN!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:38 PM
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263 is, right now, hilarious.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:39 PM
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W-lfs-n is totally becks-optimized.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:41 PM
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McCain takes fucking Ambien?

Unlike Tweety, I am heartened by this. Ambien makes it that much more probable that McCain will lose his composure in spectacular fashion before November. I so, so want that to happen.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:45 PM
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267: right. And then the explanation: "no, you see, the Senator was on drugs—that's why he said/did that."


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 6:51 PM
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boston readers i need your help. i just got interviewed by a reporter from fox news boston, i asked him his name and then promptly forgot it. it was something like...john bettenfeld? bittenfield? help!


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 7:05 PM
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Joe Battenfield


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 7:08 PM
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Joe Battenfield.

Favorite story he's covered? The Clinton impeachment trial!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 7:10 PM
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Thanks, oudemia!


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 08-26-08 7:20 PM
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