Re: Recovery Zone

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Jowlfest 2008: The Jowlening.


Posted by: xyzzy | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:02 PM
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So wrath is ... pointy? teardrop-shaped?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:04 PM
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2: stabby.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:06 PM
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Pride only makes sense in the context of Norse drinking challenges, as when the giants challenged Thor to drain a wineskin in a single draught, not telling him that it was actually connected to the sea. I take it that that's the point of the glass itself's not having an actual base. But why wouldn't that go just as well for gluttony, the glass for which seems kind of uninspired ("let's make it really big! oh, and kind of lopsided, too.").

I can't really make any sense of the envy glass.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:07 PM
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The envy glass has holes it in, so if you try to drink out of it, you'll envy someone who isn't using such a fucking stupid glass.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:08 PM
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I like that the lust glass makes you drink like a hamster.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:09 PM
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Oh those are holes. I thought those were just like bumps in the glass.

That seems a better illustration of the deadly sin of practical joking than of envy.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:10 PM
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A much more suitable gluttony glass.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:10 PM
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Especially since you could always cover the holes.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:10 PM
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Does it come with the Guy Smiley puppet included?


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:11 PM
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When I'm feeling gluttonous, I drink straight from the melchizedek.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:12 PM
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10 → 8


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:12 PM
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If your wine glass were poorly plugged with duct tape, I imagine you'd envy other people's glasses.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:12 PM
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Guy Smiley! I love Guy Smiley.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:13 PM
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The envy glass is about as clever as the "diet fork" my parents got as a hilarious practical joke in the 70's. Its tines are bend into curly-cues! So you can't eat with it!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:13 PM
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And which deadly sin does the model's velvet jacket represent?


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:13 PM
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Frippery.


Posted by: xyzzy | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:15 PM
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Jeez, people. Don't strain your brains, the commenters there have already figured it out.

I'm pretty sure these are completely useless for really using. And if you buy them to show people, no one will understand why the hell you bought them or care.

Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:15 PM
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This comment is also pretty great:

Chances are if you go calling things stupid because you don't understand them, you are the one who's stupid. Just something to think about.

THINK ABOUT IT.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:16 PM
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I thought about it, and you're right. I am the one who's stupid. Damn it!


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:17 PM
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On the other hand, if you call something stupid because you do understand it, chances are it's stupid.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:18 PM
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When I was a kid, my parents had a set of cocktail glasses with the 7 deadly sins etched on them (the eighth, to fill out the set, was 'choosing the wrong side'). These glasses are even more ridiculous. THINK ABOUT IT.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:19 PM
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I am attracted to the Wrath glass, but on review, I see that Stanley mentioned that.

My first thought on the Envy glass was that those were bumps, and the bottom served to produce sediment. A reach, I admit.

So that's Guy Smiley? No, I'm not going to look it up.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:20 PM
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If the illustration at the bottom is to be believed, the proper use of the wrath glass is to fling the wine in it at your opponent, not to stab your opponent.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:22 PM
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We are parsimon's personal Google.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:22 PM
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Guy Smiley is a muppet, dear.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:22 PM
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Actually, the wrath glass looks just about impossible to drink from.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:23 PM
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First you fling the wine to blind them, then you stab.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:24 PM
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27: Aha! So you serve your opponent wine in the wrath glass and then turn the bottle up to your mouth to swig. Take that, opponent! Wrathy.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:25 PM
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I assumed that the Wrath glass represented wrath directed inward, masochistically. Since you would cut the shit out of your lips on it.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:25 PM
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The horror of trying to clean dried wine out of those horns on the greed glass after a party makes me want to stab myself with the wrath glass. I know, I know, these are not practical. But these issues scream to be addressed!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:26 PM
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(the eighth, to fill out the set, was 'choosing the wrong side')

This lacks a certain sinful punchiness. Maybe "Democrat" would have been better.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:26 PM
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The horror of trying to clean dried wine out of those horns on the greed glass after a party makes me want to stab myself with the wrath glass.

Pour hot water in, rinse, repeat.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:27 PM
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26: Really?

I now seriously adore the Wrath glass. Flingy, stabby, impossible to drink from (right, that's a bit of a problem).


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:28 PM
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Really.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:29 PM
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Pour hot water in, rinse, repeat.

AWB's wrathful bacchanalia are legendary and last for weeks on end. It's going to take more than hot water, young ben.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:31 PM
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Maybe "Democrat" would have been better.

Sad to report, my parents would likely have agreed.

AWB is completely right about the greed glass. It's like having baby clothes that require special care; fuck that.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:31 PM
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And the set costs only $15,000! A bargain!


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:31 PM
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I assumed that the Wrath glass represented wrath directed inward, masochistically.

I've strained my brain a tiny bit to consider that, yes, in order to drink from that, you'd either cut yourself or dribble wine all over your face, vampire-stylee fashion.

It's really great. As a concept.

I will now let go of any residual anger I may have.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:36 PM
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Parsimon is a muppet.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:37 PM
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On a more educational note, did you know that blind tastings have proven that wine glasses, even glasses of nearly identical shape, influence one's perception of the quality of a wine? I'm guessing that the effect is mostly due to tasters' perception of the quality of the glass, but (as ever) there's an outside chance I could be wrong.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:39 PM
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On a more educational note, did you know that blind tastings have proven that wine glasses, even glasses of nearly identical shape, influence one's perception of the quality of a wine?

"When I'm blinded, this glass makes me spill wine all over myself. Stupid wine!"


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:43 PM
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Five'll get you ten those tastings were sponsored by Riedel.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:43 PM
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43: Zackly.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:46 PM
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I recently had dinner with the father of a guy who's a wine taster, and the son had given the father what he called a bubbler. Some glass thing (apparently in the rough shape of a wide bong, from what he gestured), with holes in the sides. It must have some central column.

This is to decant red wines: you pour the wine through, and it burbles or bubbles as it proceeds down the column. The wine coming from the bottom, he said, tastes very notably different from what you poured in. You can do this repeatedly, with the taste distinctly changing with each pouring.

He enthused about it, and I imagine it's a well-known thing in the wine world.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:52 PM
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The wine coming from the bottom, he said, tastes very notably different from what you poured in

Oxygenation has that effect.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:56 PM
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Good timing. Smasher, Matt F, and I just watched Seven last night.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:57 PM
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Some prefer to call it letting the wine breathe, you supercilious Oregonian.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 9:58 PM
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46, 48: Right, but one wouldn't have thought that you could *make* the wine breathe, quickly, in that way.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:02 PM
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48: Only because they don't understand what's happening at a chemical level, you wine-n00b apologist.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:04 PM
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I'm feeling all biodynamic, y'all. Who's with me?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:10 PM
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one wouldn't have thought that you could *make* the wine breathe, quickly, in that way.

Wouldn't one? Increase surface area, increase exposure of previously submerged wine-bits, churn some new air up in that.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:11 PM
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one wouldn't have thought that you could *make* the wine breathe, quickly, in that way

Unless one were accustomed to the use of decanters.

I'm not trying to be insufferable, really.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:12 PM
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50: hey, wait, though, isn't breathing itself the process of oxygenating blood? What clever metaphors those n00bs have.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:12 PM
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Good timing. Smasher, Matt F, and I just watched Seven last night.

I presume you drank boxed wine to really make the most of that Brad-Pitt-gets-a-delivery scene.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:13 PM
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53.last: it's effortless, truly.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:14 PM
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Yeah, Sifu's right.

Focusing on the chemical process of oxygenation sounds like some kind of heartless scientism.

I picture Jesus presiding over a nice meal, pouring out a bottle into his decanter and saying that "we should wait a bit to let the wine oxygenate".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:14 PM
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I picture Jesus presiding over a nice meal, pouring out a bottle into his decanter and saying that "we should wait a bit to let the wine oxygenate".

I picture Jesus pausing momentarily and then saying "The wine is now oxygenated."


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:21 PM
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Breathing, whatever; anthropomorphize your wine as you will. I have had the experience of tasting really great wine (early '70s first-growth Bordeaux, not particularly well stored) as it's exposed to air, and it's been fascinating. 20 minutes or so after opening, there's this wonderful effusion of aromas, and then poof! it's gone. Life itself.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:23 PM
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I wouldn't have a problem with Jesus saying such a thing over wine, decanting. It's not like I don't know it's an oxygenation process.

What I didn't think is that you could do it rapidly. It's like thinking that, since we all do breathe on a regular basis, we could breathe really really fast for a short time, and that would take care of things for the next while.

Obviously, I was not quite getting that wine's breathing is not the same.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:26 PM
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Boy I had some old-ass wine (about a 30 year old Bordeaux, I guess, not clear how good) and that just didn't taste a bit like I expected wine to taste. So great.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:26 PM
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My comment crossed with 59. Anthropomorphizing wine, indeed. This is making me smile.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:28 PM
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You should all watch this, except you, parsley, because it'll take too long.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:30 PM
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60: It is the same, basically. With wine you just want to be able to control it, so for example, we rack ours (transfer it from barrel to barrel) about a half-dozen times between pressing and bottling; exposure to oxygen helps, but we have to make sure there's enough sulfur to bind up any excess.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:34 PM
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63: I liked Wimpy.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:38 PM
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63: well that's durn funny.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:42 PM
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I picture Jesus presiding over a nice meal, pouring out a bottle into his decanter and saying "This is my blood of the new covenant, which etcetera."

There are certain things Jesus has to say in certain situations.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:44 PM
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I think my work here is done.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:46 PM
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63: I think Popeye could work as a Dark Knight-style production. My casting:

Popeye: David Bazan (Robin Williams plays the dad though, as a nod)

Olive Oyl: Rachael Ray (and she calls herself "EVOO"; it's annoying, but it plays well in Peoria)

Wimpy: Ari Fleischer

Bluto: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, fattened up a bit

As a plot thickener, there's an FDA crisis about spinach contamination.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:49 PM
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Right, but one wouldn't have thought that you could *make* the wine breathe, quickly, in that way.

you can't.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 10:59 PM
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David Bazan: clearly Popeye-esque.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 2-08 11:10 PM
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Wimpy: Ari Fleischer

Ari doesn't eat meat, for heaven's sake.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 12:03 AM
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Hell of a name he's got, then.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 12:05 AM
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You're one to talk.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 12:12 AM
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My father's pack won't be pleased to hear you've been insulting my parentage, pal.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 12:22 AM
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Right, but one wouldn't have thought that you could *make* the wine breathe, quickly, in that way.

Just drop in an aquarium bubbler linked to a tank of medical oxygen for a couple of minutes. I am working on a Fast Wine Oxygenator along the lines of the Soda-Stream machine.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 2:33 AM
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This surprised me; there is an ISO standard (3591: Sensory analysis -- Apparatus -- Wine-tasting glass). Pictures. And I love that ISO prose:

The tasting glass consists of a cup (an "elongated egg") supported by a stem resting on a base. The opening of the cup is narrower than the convex part so as to concentrate the bouquet. Further are given physical, dimensional and special characteristics. An annex comprises recommendations for use.

Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 4:04 AM
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aquarium bubbler linked to a tank of medical oxygen
Funny, that's just about what I use to add oxygen to my beer before it ferments. Hadn't thought of attacking the wine with it, though a guy I took a wine class from once recommended turning the bottle upside down and shaking violently into the decanter. "Delicacy is not required".


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 6:29 AM
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These glasses are a joke, right? And by "joke" I mean, not even meant as artsy decoration/conversation pieces--just a joke on a website. These can't really be for sale for $15,000. They're mostly not very clever (and, as mentioned above, several don't make much sense).

Put another way, if you gave any typical class of art students the assignment: "design a set of wine glasses based on the seven deadly sins," this wouldn't likely even be the best submission you'd get.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 6:54 AM
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re: 79

I don't know. There's a lot of absurdly expensive crap on the internet that looks like a joke but isn't.

See all threads about snake-oil audophilia past.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 7:06 AM
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bout a 30 year old Bordeaux, I guess, not clear how good

apostropher gave us a Bordeaux that was two or three years old for our housewarming and it was the best wine I've ever tasted. I realized almost immediately that I should have, you know, saved it. I need to order a bottle from the same winery and hang onto it for a while. I can't imagine a 30-year Bordeaux. I think I'd probably faint.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 8:02 AM
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79: These glasses are a joke, right?

I think that they are a "legitimate" project by a London designer named Kacper Hamilton. Website here.

Handmade in England. Limited Edition. Available to order. Price on Request. Not to everyone's taste

Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 8:17 AM
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one thing that gave me a pang when I quit drinking was all that incredible 82 bordeaux my grandad has in his cellar which, because he's old and all, he will just bust out for any occasion.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 8:18 AM
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JP took my comment number.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 8:21 AM
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83: you can still pour some out on the curb for the homies, at least.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 8:21 AM
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all that incredible 82 bordeaux

Oh, alameida. You're going to make me cry.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 8:22 AM
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If I promise to do all the drinking that alternate-universe alameida would have done, can I have grandpa's bordeaux?


Posted by: Timothy Burke | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 8:43 AM
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If I promise to do all the drinking that alternate-universe alameida would have done

You think you're man enough for that task, TB?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 8:50 AM
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2, 4, 7, 9, 11, 21, 24: Somebody is still cranky from listening to Joe Lieberman.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 8:54 AM
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apostropher gave us a Bordeaux that was two or three years old for our housewarming and it was the best wine I've ever tasted. I realized almost immediately that I should have, you know, saved it. I need to order a bottle from the same winery and hang onto it for a while. I can't imagine a 30-year Bordeaux. I think I'd probably faint.

Maybe you like the style of 2-3 year old wine better. Aging wine changes it, but it's completely a matter of taste as to whether it makes it better. (Although a lot of people feel that Bordeaux "hibernates" around 5-9 years old and is less good either than when young or old).

Also, just as Parsimon thought, you cannot replicate the effect of long, slow exposure to a little oxygen with quick exposure to a lot of oxygen.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 8:56 AM
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Here's hoping this isn't just campaign bluster:

Looking to the future but with one eye on the past, Biden also promised that an Obama-Biden government would go through Bush administration data with "a fine-toothed comb" and pursue criminal charges if necessary.

"If there has been a basis upon which you can pursue someone for a criminal violation," he said, "they will be pursued, not out of vengeance, not out of retribution - out of the need to preserve the notion that no one, no one, no attorney general, no president, no one is above the law."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:01 AM
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91: Please please please please please.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:04 AM
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I should have, you know, saved it

Actually, no. That wasn't a wine for aging. You could have saved it another few years without any ill effects, but it was made for young drinking.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:04 AM
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If wines were sent into space and returned, would they age faster or slower?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:07 AM
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91: OMG, that's exactly what I've been wanting to hear. That nearly makes me weep.

You know what else may make me weep? The magnum of '82 Chateau Talbot around which I'm planning a dinner sometime this fall.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:08 AM
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Aging wine changes it, but it's completely a matter of taste as to whether it makes it better.

I don't think you can really relegate it to completely a matter of taste. Some wines are pretty objectively better younger or older. There's a lot of gray area, granted.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:10 AM
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There's a lot of gray area, granted.

That wine has gone bad. It should be purple.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:12 AM
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Some wines are pretty objectively better younger or older.

You're aware of an objective measure of "betterness"?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:13 AM
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That wine has gone bad. It should be purple.

That's why you save it for, 3am, 6th bottle type evenings.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:14 AM
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I firmly believe that refusing to develop a palate for wine is sensible and economical self-protection. I've liked good wine when knowledgable people have handed it to me, but I have a budget for swill, and I don't mind swill so long as it's not overly sweet.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:18 AM
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You're aware of an objective measure of "betterness"?

You mean in the sense of `this tastes crap until it's sat a few years' and `this one sat too long' ? Not completely objective of course, although presumably some chemist could describe the process of a wine falling apart.

But in the sense that everyone basically agrees, or is just being contrary? Sure. Otherwise you're in the territory of believing everything about drink is subjective, and you have no basis for saying that thunderbird isn't the best wine ever produced in your opinion. It's defensible, but silly.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:19 AM
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I am so with LB in 100. Why on earth would I want to learn what's wrong with my boxed cabernet?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:20 AM
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pretend 101.3 was grammatical, k?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:20 AM
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I am so with LB in 100. Why on earth would I want to learn what's wrong with my boxed cabernet?

Indeed, it's a slippery slope.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:23 AM
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my boxed cabernet

A friend of mine in college had that Chillable Red boxed wine in his fridge, when another friend dropped in looking for a beer. Opening the fridge, the second friend looked kind of surprised at the perceived-to-be fancy-shmancy French wine. "Ooh. Red Chill-AH-blay!"

That pronunciation is still the standard at my house.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:26 AM
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105: Oh dear. We also stumbled upon that pronunciation, making me suspect youngins everywhere all simultaneously invented that joke, a million times over, in parallel.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:29 AM
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I think it's a really interesting question as to whether an aesthetic judgement can ever be seen as "objectively" correct, I'd love to be alerted to any philosophy literature there is on this.

But IMO wine is particularly subjective because I believe physical taste sensations differ a great deal across people. Aging wine subtracts fruit (certainly makes it less fresh), mellows the tannins, and develops certain subtle but mild secondary flavors. Many people find harsh tannins off-putting and enjoy secondary flavors. So wine with lots of tannin when young and a lot of capacity to develop secondary flavors is ageworthy. But if you don't mind tannins, love fruit, and are indifferent to some of the more subtle flavors that replace the exuberant young fruit, then aging wine won't be your thing.

I think you can be more objective in cases where wine is not ageworthy. There are lots of wines where aging them just ruins the wine and throws it harshly out of balance, because nothing replaces the fruit or the alcohol gets spiky without fruit to cover it.

(All this description is subjective, of course).


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:30 AM
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107 to 101.

100 is a good point too, my period of wine geekery ruined cheap wine for me and has cost me a good deal on restaurant menus. Restaurant markups for the good stuff are like 5 times the regular price, good wine is unaffordable.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:34 AM
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I have a wine rack with a good mix of dirt cheap and reasonably pricey. If I don't drink a bottle shortly after buying it, I can never remember which group it belongs in. And when that happens I usually can't tell when drinking it, either.

This tells me I should perhaps increase the ratio of dirt cheap bottles in the rack, but for some unknown reason I've been doing the opposite.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:42 AM
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my period of wine geekery ruined cheap wine for me

There are, however, loads of excellent affordable wines if you know what you're looking for. The key is to avoid grocery stores and find a wine shop with a knowledgeable owner whose palate lines up with yours.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:43 AM
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110 is very true too...I should have said it ruined bad wine, and finding cheap good wine takes significant investment of time and lots of trial and error.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:45 AM
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I too am I wine ignoramus and happy about it. The downside is that I don't get as many opportunities to use the phrase "exuberant young fruit." It is, however, a pretty good description of some of my friends in college.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:46 AM
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107/109: Some wines are really intended to spend a few years in a cellar, but you aren't so likely to buy one by accident.

and has cost me a good deal on restaurant menus

Standard markup starts at around 300%. Restaurants that will allow you to bring wine are a good thing.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:51 AM
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and finding cheap good wine takes significant investment of time and lots of trial and error.

I may have just been lucky with finding stores with helpful people here, but it hasn't been such a chore. Random trial and error would be horrible though. Besides, when you do find some, you can buy a bunch. A case of $10 wine (Texas, ymmv) isn't going to break most peoples budget, and some places will give you a deal on cases.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 9:54 AM
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I too am I wine ignoramus and happy about it. The downside is that I don't get as many opportunities to use the phrase "exuberant young fruit."

Or you could just become a Jell-O connoisseur.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:12 AM
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Whatever happened to Mogan David 20/20 - "the wine of the century?" Is it still around?


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:15 AM
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108

"... my period of wine geekery ruined cheap wine for me ..."

Most people can't tell the difference when tasting blind. See this for example:

"After appropriate statistical massaging, Brochet's results prove that a lot of what wine connoisseurs say about wine is humbug: A side-by-side chart of best-to-worst rankings of 18 wines by a roster of experienced tasters showed about as much consistency as a table of random numbers."


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:18 AM
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I'm not a big fan of white wine, but I've found a few that I like. I can tell the difference between different types of grapes. I don't really care for chardonnay. I like Italian wines and some South African ones too. I got a 2006 Vernaccia di San Gimignano for $9 that I liked a lot.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:27 AM
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116: Like rock-n-roll, Mad Dog will never die.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:27 AM
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We also stumbled upon that pronunciation, making me suspect youngins everywhere all simultaneously invented that joke, a million times over, in parallel.

Shouldn't that be "sheeh-YAHB-leh", with just the barest hint of an "L" in the last syllable?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:28 AM
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The downside is that I don't get as many opportunities to use the phrase "exuberant young fruit."

Become a judge of high school cheerleading competitions.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:30 AM
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Shouldn't that be "sheeh-YAHB-leh"

Too close to the name of god for comfort.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:30 AM
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CHLBL?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:31 AM
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Chilblains are sacred to him.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:33 AM
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122: Shiraz should become She-Ra, Princess of Power.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:33 AM
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"Ahh, boo-nAY's farm-uh"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:35 AM
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My two simple cheap wine choices are Washington state reds, which tend to be underpriced for quality (especially from Yakima valley), and learning the names of the regions in Chile that have either older or better wineries-- Maipo and Aconcagua. Many Chilean wineries use relatively heavy sulfuring, though, so provoke allergic reactions for some. I'm now trying to figure out which Argentine valleys are best.

Oh, the other thing I do is avoid large importers unless there's something else to recommend the bottle.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:37 AM
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May I recommend Le Deux-Euros Charles?

Washington state reds, which tend to be underpriced for quality (especially from Yakima valley)

Ssh. Try to keep it a secret.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:39 AM
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The key is to avoid grocery stores and find a wine shop with a knowledgeable owner whose palate lines up with yours.

If your palate is similar to Parker's you will have no trouble finding wine to suit you. If, however, your tastes vary from his, like mine do, it becomes more of a crapshoot. I really despise the way an entire industry is dominated by one man's taste buds.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:39 AM
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I only like 100% grape wine.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:40 AM
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Amusingly, 130 is a lie.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:40 AM
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I'm now trying to figure out which Argentine valleys are best.

I tend to look for the ones from the city of Mendoza, but that's possibly a personal bias from having visited there. That said, I like lots of Chilean wines from the places you mentioned, so maybe worth a shot.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:41 AM
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I don't really care for chardonnay.

American chardonnays mostly blow, because they turn them into butterscotch syrup. I've had several French chardonnays that were very good.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:44 AM
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OT: The North Pole has become an island for the first time in human history, with fears the melting ice cap has entered a "death spiral".

Last year people were talking about the Arctic losing its ice as soon as 2030, and Gristmill has been talking about polar bears going extinct by 2030 or 2020.


Posted by: gloomy today | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:46 AM
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130: I recently had some palm wine. Very tasty beer-like flavor.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:47 AM
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I only drink burnt wine.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:47 AM
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the city of Mendoza s/b the province of Mendoza

While the city is very nice, I do not recall any vineyards within city limits.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:47 AM
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French chardonays can be delicious. I am particularly partial to the Loire valley wines; there's a lovely light red from there, the name of which is escaping me right now. Of course, when I was buried in Germany for a year, I drank a lot of white Rhine and Moselle wines, many of which were too too sweet and needed to be diluted with sparkling water (Weissweinschorle!), but a small number of them were just beautiful. Oo, back to French whites: I really like white Bordeau for a table wine.

I don't drink anymore, though.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:52 AM
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I don't really care for chardonnay.

Someday when you're feeling flush, splurge on a really good white Burgundy (which is Chardonnay), such as a Puligny-Montrachet or Chablis Grand Cru. It will change your mind. There are a few people up here making good Chardonnay, more French- than California-style.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:52 AM
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Vegans can drink, JM.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:53 AM
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138: Chinon? Sancerre?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:53 AM
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Those are both good, but I was thinking of Saumur Champigny, which I'vefound to be consistently enjoyable. Like most Loire reds, it's not a heavy-duty wow-your-friends wine, but very nice.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:59 AM
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Unfortunately it;s almost never on the American market.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 10:59 AM
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At dinner the night we got engaged Blume and I had this crazy Italian white wine called "Blatterle", which was way, way different and extremely good. It seemed like it would be phenomenally difficult to pair with food, but they managed it.

Might've been this one?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 11:05 AM
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140: Nope. They got all their moisture from licking dew off leaves.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 11:19 AM
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and by "got" I mean "get"


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 11:41 AM
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Saumur is an in-joke for us-- we couldn't figure out which road to take out of town and kept coming back to the same traffic circle over and over.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 11:47 AM
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Actually, no. That wasn't a wine for aging. You could have saved it another few years without any ill effects, but it was made for young drinking.

Fabulous! It was fantastic. I've learned exactly enough to know that I liked that Bordeaux and in general like Cotes-du-Rhone. Otherwise I buy pretty labels.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 12:18 PM
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I go for whatever wine is on offer in Oddbins and has stuff on the cardboard tag they attach with tasting notes that rings the right vague bells. Ditto for supermarket wine.

Luckily my taste runs to bog standard stuff rather than anything exotic or expensive. 5 - 6 quid a bottle stuff. Occasionally a couple of quite more or a quid less.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 12:53 PM
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148: My recommendation would be to shop at Chapel Hill Wine Company over at MLK and Homestead, as they really do a smash-up job of finding quality sub-$12 bottles and have good descriptions up of most of them. I've rarely been disappointed by anything I've gotten there (and we buy enough that we get hand-written thank you notes a few times a year).


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 1:00 PM
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Argentina, Chile are good suggestions. There are some great, inexpensive Portuguese Douro out there.

Australia is a go-to place for great inexpensive wine. You don't have to get the hot, alcoholic Barossa stuff. Coonawarra has cooler weather. For my taste, Wynn's Estate Coonawarra Cabernet (not the cab/shiraz/merlot, but the pure cab) is one of the world's great wine bargains. It's a huge operation and the stuff is inexpensive and readily available. In particularly good years they produce the high-end John Riddoch, which was 30-40 dollars when I bought it but fantastically cheap for a wine of that quality.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 1:22 PM
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I don't think I've ever spent more than about 10 quid on a bottle of wine [not including champagne]. I've bought stuff that retails for more as part of special offers or discounts, end of bin promotions and the like. But sheesh, I can't imagine spending as much as 40 dollars.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 1:24 PM
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40 dollars is only about 20 quid. Wait till you're out of grad school.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 2:29 PM
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re: 153

I might be in grad school but I earn non-grad-school wages in my 'day job'. I still don't envisage spending 20 quid on a bottle of wine. I like wine, I drink a fair bit of it, but I can't imagine regularly spending that much.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 3:46 PM
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gloomy's interjection in 134 provides the wine discussion with a delightful Nero-fiddling kind of flavor, a delicate bouquet of apricot and dark chocolate with a quicklime finish.


Posted by: NickFranklin | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 4:13 PM
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Buck had a plan for buying up cold-climate land for vinyards to take advantage of global warming, but it probably wouldn't work out too well what with the worldwide war for resources of all against all that'd be going on at the time.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 4:40 PM
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Yeah, LB, Buck's probably too late to start flag-planting on the Arctic seafloor at this point. On the other hand, maybe now's the time to go for a real long play and start buying up deserts. Post-glacial vineyards could look awfully chilly, comparatively speaking, during the early stages of the subsequent ice age.


Posted by: NickFranklin | Link to this comment | 09- 3-08 5:24 PM
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