Before anyone gets worried that John McCain has been reanimated as a latter-day Pericles, I offer you some calming numbers. My friends. (Sorry, Stanley.)
I hope that your volunteer experience is far, far better than mine. And I hope for film at 11.
Skip the speech. Don't add to the numbers. He's not talking to you anyway.
I was just reading a NYT story: apparently donations are way up in the wake of Palin's speech. To the Obama campaign.
My volunteer experience, let me show you it?
Hi, all. Clearly the Obama campaign is trying to make a fundraising "bounce" the answer to the RNC. It seems to me a pretty good idea, and given the posts of dz on this here weblog, the Obama folks appear to know that they're doing. At the risk of sounding overly earnest, people may want to think about giving a few bucks today, as I've done.
I was talking with two people last name, one of whom I'd describe as Republican-leaning and the other whose political views I don't really know, who both professed agnosticism over who they would vote for this year between McCain and Obama. I'm not used to speaking to mythical undecided voters, and was trying to figure out what could sway their vote. They both seemed to still be holding on to a year 2000 view of McCain, so I feel like the Yggls WaPo piece might be helpful, but on the other hand If they're able to still have that view of McCain I'm not sure of it's because they haven't been exposed to the facts about what he's running on, don't believe he'll sincerely do what he says he'll do (and that's a good thing), or are just fact-insensitive.
3: Michael, from what I can reckon regarding your volunteer experience, the primary problem was your expectations and needs. Someone who lacks your idiosyncratic attitudes is probably going to have better luck.
From TPM: McCain Speech: Obama Doesn't Have "The Scars" That I Have
This throws open the door to a DNC melanoma ad buy, right?
Semi-OT: Can anyone point me to some easily digestible data on the House races?
the Obama campaign is trying to make a fundraising "bounce" the answer to the RNC
That's for sure. I just got a phone call from Todd in LA who wants me to give more money. I said, yeah, I probably will do so online. He insisted on sending me a pledge card in the mail, and we argued about for five minutes.
"That's a waste. I'm going to donate online, just not right now."
"But the pledge card pays for this phone call!"
"[grumble grumble grumble]"
Volunteering, Becks? That's not apathy we can believe in.
Seriously, folks -- you should donate today. It will make a difference.
Here's a good conversation I was in, as the straight man:
"You know Jesus and Pontius Pilate?" "Yeah, of course." "Well. one of 'em was a Governor, and the other was a Community Organizer."
Heh.
14: hey, I heard that joke today!
... donate today. It will make a difference.
I sent another $50 online today. I'm not sure what difference it makes, except symbolically and as an outlet for my contempt for last night's abortion of a speech. But the same could be said for my vote, and I can only cast that once.
Fine, fine, I donated again. I'm very poor this month, and limited in my giving this year in general, so my donations have been $25 each time, and each time, I feel bad because I get this email that says, "Thank you so much for your generous contribution of $25." And it makes me feel cheap.
15: Yeah, I said I was the straight man. I've subsequently seen it around the blogs, thus suggesting that some of my colleagues read more blogs than they let on.
15: Although are you politely telling me you originated it, Sifu?
And it makes me feel cheap.
Success!
14 - On the one hand it's funny. On the other hand, Obamassiah. Griping hand is crucifiction.
17: I don't know, $25 seems like a lot to me.
Elitist.
(Thanks, all, for not making fun of my earnestness in 7.)
19: leaving aside how I gave you the mistaken impression that I'm polite, no.
I've decided I'm not watching any more of the convention, because it's actively making me stupider. Keegan and Noah are watching Raiders of the Lost Ark instead.
I walked out of that movie when I was Noah's age.
9: I very much hope you're right. I really do want to see Obama elected. I certainly don't want to discourage anyone from doing whatever they think they can - as you say, my problems are my problems, and shouldn't limit anyone else's actions.
24: Okay, now you've gone and made me jealous. Mrs. NCP is at yoga, Little Baby NCP is asleep in her crib, and I've got the Internet. And sushi. And wine.
27: wait, he has two kids + a movie and you have no kids + sushi + wine and you're jealous of him? Prosecutors are a strange breed.
Ain't that always the case? Now, it's off to mix up tomorrow's formula. Glamorous!
and I've got the Internet. And sushi. And wine.
eekbeata and I are just about to eat this and this while watching Smilla's Sense of Snow, though we've agreed to pause the movie to watch McCain. I'm having second thoughts about that last part.
eekbeata is my nickname for her, you see.
Now, it's off to mix up tomorrow's formula. Glamorous!
Make it complex-valued to spice things up!
I think it's good for us to feel a little fear during the RNC. It sparks donations and gets a little nastiness out of the system before the debates start. We'll be in a very good position as a party if we take the rest of these next two months seriously, without panicking.
was Cindy McCain really in Rwanda during the genocide?
(somebody said that a couple speeches ago and I've been googling things unsuccessfully ever since)
And it makes me feel cheap.
Just think, awb: what if everyone in the world gave Obama a penny?
was Cindy McCain really in Rwanda during the genocide?
I think this is a fragment that somehow escaped from the conspiracy thread.
39: no! 2 or 3 speakers ago, claimed it. They supposedly asked a question of a table full of Africa people "was anyone here during the actual genocide" and only Cindy McCain raised her hand. She was supposedly doing some kind of aid work. But I've never heard anything about it before.
Cecily, she says in this USA Today article that she was in Rwanda during the genocide in '94.
Genocidal mobs need shitty beer too.
This is not actually off-topic: Does anybody know anything about Saybrook Graduate School? Specifically, how legit it is? I did a quick review of website and Wikipedia and can't quite tell.
I'm weighing how angry to be about a request I got from someone affiliated. If the school is decent I'm going to be a lot more upset.
That's one way of making sure Palin doesn't embarrass herself.
Wikipedia claims it's accredited.
"No academic credit is given for life experience, continuing education or extension courses, or course work completed at a non-accredited institution." looks like an explicit attempt to distance them from diploma mills.
||
What are different names for those tubs that you put in the sink to soak dishes? I've been trying to see whether Bed, Bath and Beyond or Target carries them, and I can't find any. But it's such a basic item! I want one so that I don't have to get a fancy foot spa soak. I've tried basin to no avail.
|>
"Tub". Go to the hardware store.
Also, ||/|> is supposed to be used for interjections, not requests for which you want answers.
eekbeata is my nickname for her, you see.
The Eekbeatitudes are on of my favorite passages in the New Testament: "Blessed are the Eek, for they shall inherit a proportionate share of their parents' estate, though probably too late to be of any help with the house downpayment or tuition bills."
50: "Dishpan" is the word I've always heard.
Saybrook Graduate School
Never heard of it. Sounds dubiously New Age. I imagine one of those places with a tiny number of good people and lots of dreck.
I'm weighing how angry to be about a request I got from someone affiliated
Was it a lewd request?
51: Don't be so picky. People use them both ways. It's intended for anything that one doesn't want to have derail a thread.
People do use them both ways, but they oughtn't to.
I'm about to pour the third glass of wine and fire up some Civilizations IV. Right after I donate. Bastards.
59 - what is the glyph for requests, then?
Cindy McCain seems okay for a couple of minutes, and then she's just intolerable.
what is the glyph for requests, then?
"OT bleg."
Cindy McCain was in the sorority with my wife's sister. The two have remained friends, if not exactly close. Look for my appointment to some reasonable sinecure. Probably not FEMA. Thanks alot, Brownie.
Don't be so picky.
You do know who you're talking to, right?
Someone who has his pick of whatever he likes! Pick, pick, pick, that's me! I even pick my hair!
66: Hold out for Ambassador to Monaco.
67 Cindy is sucking really badly. She's oozing fakeness.
67: Whom you're talking to, apo. Don't be lazy with the boywizard.
Cindy is sucking really badly
Hence the attractive young running mate.
Whom you're talking to, apo.
I'm down with the gente, young Stanley. I just turned the convention on. Cindy McCain does not cut a likable figure.
Hold out for Ambassador to Monaco.
I think that one costs money. I'm more thinking Asst. Sec. of the Interior for Counting Polar Bears. I figure there can't be that many, and less every year, so lots of vacation.
Cindy McCain's rhetorical style: "You said you wanted Cherry flavor, correct? Just let me place this mask over your face, breathe in as deeply as you can, it's going to be all alright."
Today was the first time in my life that I have ever bought a six-pack of Budweiser 16-oz cans, and I did so because I knew I would have to talk to my mother on the phone this evening and she would ask me, with a twinkle on her voice, to mix metaphors, what I think of this delicious young woman from Alaska with all the babies and the smart backtalk. I got through the humiliation of that purchase by thinking about how perfect that Bud buzz would be.
Cindy McCain has that washed-up-lounge-singer/recovering-heroin-junky vibe.
When I was a kid, my (not at all feminist or anything like that) father made an interesting observation about US presidential wives (while watching some US presidential thing-y on tv...maybe Jimmy Carter's wife? I honestly can't remember...): something along the lines of, "It must be difficult to stand there like a china doll, always smiling." That's always stayed with me, though admittedly I can't remember which president it was, or (by extension) which wife.
So I try not to get too hate-festy about the wives of. Not that it bothers me overmuch when the rich and powerful are made the objects of mockery, but the 'wife of' dynamic does somewhat dampen my enthusiasm. Not that Cindy McCain is going to be a presidential wife, of course!
78 - you could totally see her working the lounge on a cruise ship, n'est-pas?
77: never mind the mixed metaphors, I worry about your prepositions. You can have a twinkle on something?
Political wife seems like a perfectly dreadful job.
Beer heiress, on the other hand, sounds pretty sweet.
81 is so lame.
I ban myself to learn some nursery rhymes.
Some guy is talking on PBS about how the families playing big roles in the conventions is a relatively new phenomenon. Hey, here's the McCain video! Only took six words until "POW".
"Some call him names that can't be repeated"? "Mama's boy"? This is helping their case how?
87: The ERs are going to be overrun.
"John McCain's life was somehow spared. Perhaps [the One] had more to do."
You also have to drink every time he says "My Friends"
87: John McCain went five and a half years without a drink, Spike.
Apparently God saved him from death so that he could become president. Excuse me, I'm going to go vomit now.
When on-camera with famous people Cindy McC. looks very pleased with herself. Her investment paid off.
"The constant torture and isolation could have produced a bitter, broken man. And... it did!"
"Mama's boy"?
Bizarre. I just tuned in to NPR and heard that line, barked out a laugh, wondered if I was hearing some sort of satire.
This is really ghastly. "And would do most anything to keep taxes low."
91: Fuck, playing that game with water would kill you.
94: I'm amazed that they've reproduced without her biting off his head afterwards (so far as I know, there is no praying mantis archetype in porn).
When he came out and put his hand on his chest I thought he was having a heart attack.
Why does Country have to be first. Shouldn't God and Family come before Country?
If this is really live, at least the timing didn't quite work out to be precisely 9:11 central time for his acceptance.
And forgive the sexism, but close-ups of Cindy tonight remind me of Rudy in his drag outfit. Maybe he dressed up as her to get even more camera time?
"Country First" really is the most absurd presidential slogan in memory, right? It's not just the shortness of mine?
Damn, he looks like my father. That is not a good thing.
When he came out and put his hand on his chest I thought he was having a heart attack.
That's awesome.
102: I was waiting for a "Dick in a Box" joke.
"You can't win an occupation"
How did those guys get in?
I love finding the Orwellian signs in the audience. "Peace through leadership."
Is it the green screen, or is he looking a bit jaundiced?
It's going to be so awesome when his Cylon programming kicks in and he calls in a Basestar to blow the roof off the convention.
John McCain looks strikingly like my father. My parents just bought a condo in their building in Crystal City. I'm so waiting for hijinx to ensue.
There's somebody in the auditorium holding up a McCain Votes Against Vets, and the crowd is pissed.
she would ask me, with a twinkle on her voice, to mix metaphors
AWB's mother really is a monster, isn't she?
115: really? That'd be super awesome!
"The worst attack on American soil" - Apparently Pearl Harbor was no big deal.
Adopting one of Mother Teresa's kids was cool, you have to admit.
McCain has 7 children? Did I mishear that? I didn't know that.
94: "Aaaah!" s/b "AIEEEEEEE!!!".
100: OK, I kind of went there myself, but on reflection I really don't want to think about either John or Cindy McCain having sex, especially not with each other.
118: I think it's well established that Hawaii's not America.
Why does Country have to be first. Shouldn't God and Family come before Country?
Why, yes; the prototype is: "famille, travail, patrie."
The bit about "travail" is out in the lottery-society, but still.
118: Gettysburg was no picnic, either.
118: Hawaii isn't real America, silly.
His mother, Roberta, looks tough. Kind of mean actually.
She's 96. 72 is nothing! He'll do two terms!
118: He said the worst attack on American soil. The boats at PH were in American water.
So, wait, they're actually using a green f'in' backdrop, again? Did he give his whole team alzheimers, somehow?
really? That'd be super awesome!
Really. 111 is the same guy, back of the sign.
123, 126: Hawaii is almost as un-American as Alaska (and gets almost as much pork).
129 is the kind of fine parsing that makes America great.
The crowd got really uneasy with the 3 second acknowledgement that Obama was also an American.
They're just taunting us with these backdrops, aren't they?
"And I wouldn't be an American if I didn't honor Senator Obama for his achievements, but let there be no doubt, my friends, we're going to win this election."
So how many drinks are we supposed to take?
Shit, I'm torn between loving and being horrified by this protester invasion. "The angry left."
Oh, jesus, that snicker.
"Please, please my dear friends, please don't be distracted by the ground noise and the static." Did he really say that?
Has anyone else noticed that former Sen. George Allen looks exactly like the archetypal swimming pool cleaning guy from porno films?
Didn't think so. Nevermind.
"Americans want us to stop yelling at each other."
Which is why we Giuliani up here last night.
McCain has some understanding that there's a recession, that makes him a tougher opponent than most Republicans.
Why am I watching this crap? Don't I have better things to do?
142: Obviously a line they had at the ready, in case something like that happened. Although you'd think they'd choose less of a non-sequitir
142: Obviously a line they had at the ready, in case something like that happened. Although you'd think they'd choose less of a non-sequitir
141: "bottle" s/b "supertanker"
I want to see Bristol stand up and rip off her dress to reveal a code pink shirt.
Palin has faced corruption: by boldly taking part in it! Balanced a budget: by weighing a small town's $20 million debt against her own immovable will!
There was a real leering quality to "I'm gonna introduce 'er to Warshington"
Utter fucking lies about Palin's record. In fact, I'm going to stop making these sorts of remarks.
"I can't wait to introduce her to Warshington."
This is so ballsy, it's hilarious. You'd think a Republican hadn't been in power in DC for a couple of decades.
Why am I watching this crap?
Listen to it on the radio. It's even funnier.
What corruption, specifically, did John McCain fight?
So that's his nickname for it.
That's it's proper name. His nickname for it is The Monument.
Republicans can't say the word "pundit," huh.
159: His own, redeeming his sacred honor after the Keating Five.
Keating five, anyone?
This is a new inflection in Republican rhetoric, though -- a shift from the Reagan revolution and creeping socialism to the lone incorruptible gunslinger John McCain.
The use of LOL is severely deprecated even if B does it. HA is an acceptable alternative.
He actually went there with the Lose Election vs. Lose War thing. Asshole.
Damn Democrats, trying to create a cult of personality around Obama.
McCain's counting on the fact that he and Bush have been bitterly opposed on several subjects. There's a reason Obama's working so hard to tie McCain to Bush - that isn't where most people think of him being.
Palin fits that narrative well, too, with her whistleblower resignation. Ms. Smith goes to Washington, indeed.
Can McCain really out-change Obama? Or somehow offer better change?
Talk about going after your opponent on what is perceived to be their greatest strength.
Yeah, somehow the radio keeps it from jacking up my blood pressure the way television would. Pathological liars address thousands of sociopaths! Fun!
Now he's naming random Americans. I wish politicians wouldn't do that.
Pointing out all these people, he sounds like a community organizer or something- what a loser.
Can McCain really out-change Obama? Or somehow offer better change?
Nope. But what else is he going to say?
They should put a revolving selection of photos up behind him, like a screen saver.
170: right, McCain understands Bush is an asshole, people don't like him, the Bush economy has sucked, and people are disgusted. That makes him more effective.
Wow -- a touch of honesty about the fucked up Republican party now too. This makes him a much better candidate.
176: It would be hilarious if all of the sudden the screen went black, and then the Widows logo started appearing at random points on the screen.
"standing up again to the values" sounds strangely appropriate. Republicans don't stand for American values; they're against them.
179: The Widows logo, to remind people of lives lost in Iraq?
"We believe in work, faith, service, a culture of life. Personal responsibility, the rule of law..."
My head asplode.
the Widows logo
It's a silhouette, looking miserably out of the window with the head down.
His tone is weirdly whiny. Still, he's a better speaker than I thought he would be.
Also, kind of slammed the Republicans, which is an odd tactic to take at the RNC.
The Warshington Post just sent out a news alert that McCain accepted the nomination, as though there were doubt; as though it remained possible he would walk out there, take the last swig off a bottle of Beam, overhand it into the audience and shout, "Fuck you!" before lighting his tie with a Bic.
"We believe in the values of families, neighborhoods=, and communities."
Because Democrats hate those things.
Hehe. I'm going to do everything that the other guy is going to do. But it'll be good, 'cause I'm a Republican, and POW.
"I will .... My opponent will ...." Lies. Fuck you, asshole.
Okay, so! It really is not-reality land. I knew that. I did.
Really, why bother giving a speech that has any relation to reality or your proposals? No one will ever know the difference.
Still, he's a better speaker than I thought he would be.
Really? I think he's awful.
Still, much better than I've ever heard McCain speak.
Also, kind of slammed the Republicans, which is an odd tactic to take at the RNC.
It's smart, he gets it. A lot of people in that hall have at least the vague feeling the party fucked up pretty badly too.
It must feel just awesome to command an army of zombies you can activate merely by saying the word 'taxes'.
"Hey, look everyone, I've just discovered safety nets! And education!"
Well, not awful, just not a guy who's ever going to have any of his speeches replayed unless he strokes out during one.
Hey, they corrected the "Student's for McCain" logo on the sign.
"I have robot arms."
- John McCain.
It would be so nice if there were some way to require people to not blatantly lie on occasions like this. Or, you know, news media that would point out the blatant lies.
Is it just me, or does he keep getting some wild look in his lies like he's momentarily bewildered and shocked at the applause?
Also: wow, these people hate teachers.
I think he should have gone for his original slogan, "McCain: Vote For The Ugly Midget."
203: Err, "look in his lies" s/b "look in his eyes".
"Where a bureaucrat stands between you and your doctor." Much better to have an insurance company drone do that.
175: Honestly, I had thought he was going to run on experience. Solid experience v. empty words, etc. etc. It was working over the summer.
He picked Palin, and I wondered if he was adding a side of reform/change/youth. But I didn't expect him to double down on it.
And the reform choice... watch for a lot more focus on Chicago politics, now. Rezko, Ayers, etc.
McCain's going to run against Republican corruption, too. Palin fits that. But... tricky. He's still running as a Republican.
207: private sector bureaucrats are much more efficient at denying care.
204: I'm the exact opposite - I feel the protests make those of us who disagree with the Republicans look unserious.
We're going to stop spending billions of dollars in countries that don't like us? But I thought he supported the surge!
$700 billion send overseas? What in the name of fuck is he talking about?
He's totally running as Democrat Lite.
The right-wing obsession with oil drilling is baffling.
At least he knows how to pronounce "nuclear."
Yes, Americans who don't bother learning anything about energy technology "know" better than that. And clean coal, my ass.
216 well he wasn't going to flip-flop on everything
Odd that the speech seemed to signal an entirely new strategy for the campaign. I wonder if this one will last more than a week or two. I suppose a lot now depends on what happens with trooper-gate. And now we know we Palin is pushing back so hard against the inquiry.
213: I thought he was exaggerating about foreign aid, but apparently he's talking about oil.
"Senator Obama ... without nuclear power!"
False. He fucking called for increased investment in nuclear power in his fucking Dem Convention speech, you retard.
I am beginning to swear a bit.
Okay, the "Drill! Drill!" chants kind of freak me the fuck out.
I just do not get why the most electrifying comment any of the speakers can invoke is "Drill Now!"
Really, that's what you all get excited about? It's like they're not allowed to hate on Hillary at the moment so they've transferred all their venom to ANWR.
216- Did you see the first transcript from Palin's speech, where it came up on the Teleprompter as "new clear plants" to make sure she got it right?
222: It's "Drill, baby, drill!" and it's really odd that it's the biggest cheer line of the night.
Georgia is not a democracy.
You just know the Democrats will do scared me-tooism on all this militarism, instead of really challenging it.
223: I know! How is that a bigger applause line than cut taxes?
Four more wars! Four more wars! Four more wars!
Don't let them steal your bliss, parsimon.
You're prepared for the dangerous threats in our dangerous world, old man? You probably couldn't even stop the robots from stealing your medicine.
"Country First" really is the most absurd presidential slogan in memory, right?
People still remember "Tippecanoe and Tyler Too".
215: it's the only policy proposal they have with anything close to majority support.
Is pointing out that you remember Pearl Harbor really a good move, Mr. Old Dude?
Someone needs to juxtapose that line with "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb Iran"
224: I read that as "new clear pants," which, incidentally, I wholeheartedly support.
233 it is if he wants Tom Brokaw to fellate him a bit more.
213: Oil imports.
214: No, he's running as Democrat Plus - talks reform AND has put career on the line for reform. Conservation, clean energy, AND nukes and drilling.
Am I wrong, or did the speeches at the Democratic convention not actually include any obvious lies? Maybe a few about the potential Obama governing policies, but not any about their opponents.
TPM bringin' the funny:
10:50 PM ... TPM Reader PT: "What are the odds Governor Palin drops McCain from the ticket? After a performance like this, it's a serious question."
The peace pitch was very smart.
McCain is smart, his occasional erratic patches as a non-ideologue have given him greater insight into how sane people think.
His detachment from reality is wondrous to behold. Where is he going with this? Does he know?
239: Palin needs to replace McCain with someone who has executive experience, to shore up that appealing aspect of her ticket. I recommend Ernie Fletcher.
142: It's from high fidelity audio and other electronics (like biomedical gear) where noise is of much concern.
237: Conservation, clean energy, AND nukes and drilling.
Conservation AND destruction! Clean AND dirty! What's not to like?
240: Yeah, that's the short term memory going already...
241: how long have you lived in DC, anyhow?
244: fuck that, Louise Fletcher. Sure she's fictional, but think of the relative youth and vigor.
This is the opposite of the Dem convention. All the Dem speakers went light on McCain and then Obama brought down the hammer. The last three days here have been mocking Democrats as subhuman, and suddenly St. John is saying how we should all just get along. Is that really going to fly?
The evangelicals are into this "God" thing, huh?
$700 billion send overseas? What in the name of fuck is he talking about?
The amount we pay for oil imports.
I think we need to hear about the POW thing again now.
This must be hard for him, I know he hates talking about being a POW. This might even be the first time he's talked about it on camera.
254: wait, who was a POW? McCain? WHAT?
255: crap. Or Nurse Ratchet, or I need to learn what "fictional" means.
I know this has probably been said a thousand times, but the cognitive dissonance required for the Republican Party to nominate a candidate whose biggest redeeming quality is that he was tortured in 2008 is... agggh.
I loved America because America would never torture anybody. Little did I know that, one day, in pursuit of the presidency I myself would vote for torture...
"I mean, I do believe that I'm blessed with greatness, but that's not why I'm running..."
258- He was a POW in 2008 too? That one I haven't heard about.
"Fight for her?" America has a vagina?
I'm not watching McCain's speech, though I eagerly await David Brook's synopsis.
So who was it that I saw on the television earlier this evening, when I took my boy to the local pizza place? They were playing the GOP convention on the TV, and all eyes were glued to the set, but with nothing at all that resembled keen and lively interest, never mind enthusiasm. I was the only woman in the room.
After the official nomination of Palin passed with nary a 'nay' made audible, a woman politician from (oh, I forget where: my sense of US geography is a bit dim, really, but I know it was one of the red states) came on to hail the nomination as a great leap forward in tough-talking, gun-slinging 'fuck those liberal wussy feminists' GOP-style feminism. Toward the men in the room she turned a steely eye, and she spoke with grit and determination. We don't need your help in juggling work and family, she staunchly declared, because we're already doing just that, and therefore we won't listen to what you want to tell us what to do, and Go Sarah! The men cheered for the cameras, and it all seemed surreal. I appreciated about 10 percent of her message, but the other 90 percent struck me as absolutely the wrong way to go.
Said I to myself, 'Wowza! but this really is something new under the sun on the American political scene, and also in the rich and variegated history of Anglo-American feminism.' I'm not outraged by this new twist on feminism [and I really mean that, btw, I'm really not], but I'm quite scared by it, for certain.
So who was she? She had blonde hair, and she came from a red state. She said something like, "We're the gun-slinging, God-fearing, flag-waving...Americans." For real, she actually did use those descriptors, which I had previously thought were liberal snide-condescension caricatures. Um, I guess not. So now my head hurts.
The men at the pizza place seemed sceptical, though mildly curious (well, this is New York, after all), and then my son asked, 'Are you going to vote for that lady because she's a woman?' Ha! I love how kids just cut to the chase, no bullshit, no mealy-mouthed sanctimony. "Teachable moment"? I explained as to how I would not so vote, of course.
248: Do you mean the actress who played Nurse Ratchet? I think she is older.
I know this has probably been said a thousand times, but the cognitive dissonance required for the Republican Party to nominate a candidate whose biggest redeeming quality is that he was tortured in 2008 is... agggh.
What are you talking about? Torture is upbuilding; McCain was upbuilt. We're building up the people in Gitmo and our prisons, so they really have nothing to complain about. It's a service.
I guess ageism isn't so big a sin as sexism around here?
America has a vagina?
Ooh, this should be fun. I've often heard Cleveland referred to as America's armpit. Where does that put the vagina?
America has a vagina?
The Grand Canyon, maybe?
Did he just say we should all thank God that he's an American?
268: grand canyon, duh. Right in McCain country!
Is this a custom-written country song called "Raising McCain"?
270: pretty sure he was saying that he wants all Americans to have every reason to thank God for being Americans.
155 You'd think a Republican hadn't been in power in DC for a couple of decades.
During the roll call voting, the District of Columbia speaker boasted of 'Washington DC, home to more Republicans...'
Way off message.
"Washington DC, home to more Republicans than Wasilla, Alaska!
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Raising McCain is Raisin' Suspicion
August 26th, 2008 | by pfunk |
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Who said John McCain doesn't get people excited? John Rich (from Big & Rich) has created a song and video for John McCain that sets out to show that McCain does attract a younger crowd...but will it make a splash? Personally, I don't think the song is that amazing and I actually question John Rich's intentions. Raising John McCain?!? From what? What does that even mean? It's really just silly.
A part of me believes he's just doing this for the publicity. He's been pretty forward with the fact that he created this song, he's been on TV, radio, etc. I don't know, I'm being a little skeptical, but something just seems a little fishy. I do believe he's a John McCain supporter, but I also think he's found a great opportunity to promote himself and his music and now he's exploiting McCain, the media, et al. Well, kudos to him, cause it seems to be working. See what you think and leave a comment if you have anything to add...
Raising McCain Video by John Rich
Raising McCain Lyrics & Music by John Rich
Well we're all just raisin' McCain
Everywhere across the USA
You can get on the train or get out of the way
We're all just raisin' McCain
And we're all just raisin' McCain
Everywhere across the USA
You can get on the train or get out of the way
We're all just raisin' McCain
Well he got shot down in a Vietnam town
Fighting for the red, white and blue
And they locked him up in the Hanoi Hilton
Thinking they could break him in two
He stayed strong, stayed extra long
'Til they let all the other boys out
Now we've got a real man with an American plan
We're going to put him in the big White House
Well we're all just raisin' McCain
Everywhere across the USA
You can get on the train or get out of the way
We're all just raisin' McCain
Play that American guitar, son
And we're all just raisin' McCain
Everywhere across the USA
You can get on the train or get out of the way
We're all just raisin' McCain
I said we're all just raisin' McCain
Everywhere across the USA
You can get on the train or get out of the way
We're all just raisin' McCain
Well you can get on the train or get out of the way
We're all just raisin' McCain
If only they had played "It's Rainin' McCain."
274: And now the theme from Rudy, which is perfect. My Marine brother watched and cried during that movie at least a half-dozen times growing up.
Oh man...now I won't be able to play Barracuda on GHIII without being reminded of Palin...hurray.
It must be a hermaphrodite, then. I'm thinking of that B. Kliban cartoon, 'Map Filth', where there's a speech bubble coming out of Chesapeake Bay saying "Hey Europe! Eat my Florida!"
The attempt at Obama-style lofty unifying rhetoric at the end was just pathetic.
The second choice for the Republican theme song was "I Am Woman", to continue trying to peel off demoralized Hillaryoids. Flight of the Conchords' "Ladies of the World" was also under consideration.
They are playing Barracuda by IIRC Heart. Saracuda, biatches.
I'm so glad y'all are watching the speech so I don't have to. It takes these Budweisers to tolerate the existence of such a thing.
246: Frame it clean v.dirty, and it works for Obama. Frame it as doing everything there is to be done on energy, on the other hand...
Oil prices are dropping again, so it seems unlikely we'll see prices at the level they've been at for the election - advantage, Obama. Voters may remember the sticker shock, though.
249: Yeah. But this way - having the presidential candidate be above the fray, letting the surrogates handle the attacks - is more traditional. Will it fly? It usually has.
So what wasn't new about this: blatant lies, an appproach perhaps perfected and tested (to successful ends) by the GWB administration, but not entirely new to it. What seemed new but also wasn't: McCain as maverick, bucking the Republican establishment as much as any other. Turns out that that's as much what some find appealing about Palin as anything else.
A modest proposal: that presidential convention speakers should take an oath beforehand to the effect that they swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, so help them god. On pain of perjury.
284: It's a Churchill stick he's been working on, without improvement, forever.
Alex Castellano: "John McCain just proved that he's not going to win this election with oratory."
266: If old people were as hot as women, maybe things would be different.
PBS:
Judy Woodruff is a tool:
"This was a great speech!'
Richard Norton Smith:
"Yes, a great speech!"
Earth wind and fire.
Now celebration- who hired a wedding DJ for the RNC?
I ask again, am I right in thinking that Democratic convention speakers didn't actually say any obvious lies about Bush, McCain, or really anything?
It seems like the big contrast on this issue is something the media is aware of and should point out now and then.
who hired a wedding DJ for the RNC
Next: "The Chicken Dance"
295: Eh, it's basically the same song as "Love Train".
more PBS
Michael Beschloss:
"Great speech!"
What speech did these people watch?!?!??
Dana Bash creeps me out. Who has a head shaped like that?
292: Psst..Ari: Your grandmother still watches over you.
Mary Catherine you just better not say anything sexist about McCain in this thread.
I'm warning you!
301: If you're saying my grandma's hot, that's just gross. No, seriously, she's very wrinkly and totally demented. It's actually quite sad. Not unlike John McCain.
Finally, Mark Shields: sucky speech
Even David Brooks, not a good speech
John McCain's not sad. He's a POW!
In other news, Bill O'Reilly is a jackass.
303 reminds me that it would actually be possible to combine all the best aspects of John McCain and Sarah Palin into one candidate (thus leaving the VP spot open for Mitt Romney). This candidate would probably not be ari's grandmother. I'm thinking Chloris Leachman.
totally demented
Does that fall under the sex-with-crazy-people-is-hott umbrella?
So it's Wrinkly Demented and Porno Librarian for the GOP vs. Hidden Imam and Hair Plugs for the Democrats. I love America.
OTish: Samantha Bee's segment on the Daily Show was great.
I've been trusting that the people at fivethirtyeight.com are doing sensible and interesting things with polling data, but I find their liveblogging inane. This makes me less confident in their statistics. Thoughts?
302: I'm minding my Ps and Qs, Sifu. It's you people who keep me honest. And I guess now's about as good a time as any to go on record with the observation that I doubt very much that McCain could make it as a porn star.
313: yeah, his withered old man cock needs flying buttresses just so he doesn't pee on his pant leg.
Wasn't this basically Kerry's speech in 2004, except with bonus drilling action?
I doubt very much that McCain could make it as a porn star.
The niche does exist, believe it or not.
312: Most visual artists aren't great orators? Different skill sets? I don't know. Figure it out for yourself. I'm still very sad that MC made fun of my grandmother.
his withered old man cock needs flying buttresses just so he doesn't pee on his pant leg.
THE DEMOCRATS SHOULD RUN A HARD-HITTING ATTACK AD POINTING THIS OUT!
314: I was wondering why the McCain commercials all have a credit for a key grip.
Holy shit, an MSNBC reporter basically just repeated my 254, but in earnest.
Oh man. The people NPR for some reason has calling in are ... well, this guy just now sounded so stoned. He said something about wanting to see Palin in ski pants, or something, and that McCain was too good for the Republican party, and he liked Hillary and Obama okay, too. All this delivered in just an extremely stoned voice.
Ari! No, and no, and no again. No reflection upon, or reference toward, your (if you'll excuse the goyism) sainted grandmother.
You're pretty damn determined to win this guiltfest competition, aren't you? I may have to get down and dirty with the sob stories (it's all about capturing the media narrative, of course: yes, even here on Unfogged).
310: So it's Wrinkly Demented and Porno Librarian for the GOP vs. Hidden Imam and Hair Plugs for the Democrats.
And damn you, togolosh, I am not laughing at this. Besides, it's dentures.
I wonder how long it will take for McCain to realize that he hates Palin even worse than he hates Obama. This is not a man who likes being upstaged.
321: I heard that! Hilarious. Now I wish that this show were always at night.
I may have to get down and dirty with the sob stories
322: Grandma survived Hitler and now can't speak because of her dementia. Oh, and she's blind. Your turn.
One can't tell much from speeches, and also, I've had too much to drink, but McCain's body language was saying 'i don't want to be here.'
||
I'm watching 30 rock online. Were you all aware that Tina Fey is hot?
|>
My grandmother was Hitler. I win.
Also, Ari burns her with cigarettes when he visits.
Further to 326: Seriously, grandma can no longer speak any of the seven languages she once knew. Bring it, MC.
327: You really have had too much to drink. His body language said, "They pulled the plug on my life support seven months ago. But this serum Rove gave me is the good shit."
Mary Catherine's grandma can no longer speak any of the EIGHT Athabascan languages of which she is the only living fluent speaker.
a tragedy not only for the family, but for humanity.
Wow, talk about your entertaining recaps. I should always get on a train and miss the key speeches and then just read the thread. I would absolutely not have thought it was possible to laugh reading about this speech.
(Please tell me you were making it up about the drilling chants, though?)
Were you all aware that Tina Fey is hot?
Also totally demented.
Please tell me you were making it up about the drilling chants, though?
No. It was totally surreal.
It was a rhetorical question, dingbat.
I am aware of all internet traditions, Ben.
338: and a Republican! Should they have just sucked it up and nominated her, or what?
Ben is misusing the pause/play symbols, inserting a question when the symbols should be reserved for declarative sentences. Shame. Also Tina Fey is some kinda Republican or something.
Holy smokes, ben, you're chastising BG, you're snapping at apo...are you okay?
Thank heavens I missed the librarian discussion earlier because I probably would have said something profoundly un-take-back-able. As it is, I love LB.
And to answer the questions way upthread, I kinda suspect Gonerill is right in 55. And on the wild chance that 57 was a straight question...not so much lewd as immoral. Self-centered researchers make me grouchy.
Meanwhile, we went off to the movies and saw the superb Man on Wire. I reckon it was more stirring.
340 to essear, dingbat.
Hm, I wasn't aware of that one.
337: Actually, that was some pretty good liveblogging, what with the close-to-realtime partial quotes and whatnot.
349: um, yeah, I meant liveblogging. It was a recap to me, though, honestly!
::slinks away feeling slightly ashamed::
I really want to see Man on Wire.
Holy smokes, ben, you're chastising BG, you're snapping at apo...are you okay?
I'm not snapping at apo.
Yeah, this is probably the closest Ben and I have ever come to making out.
Fuck! Some idiot commentator (not a caller) on NPR has just now said, roughly, 'Sarah Palin's speech was full of questionable facts, but not so much with this one, but I did notice McCain said that Obama was against nuclear power, and that was news to me, I did not know that.'
Then they signed off.
340: It was a rhetorical question, dingbat.
I prefer "printer's ornament".
Wait, what?
The scarred comedienne is a member of the Grand Old Party.
I really want to see Man on Wire.
It is great. And short!
350: Probably referring to these remarks from Tina Fey.
350: I believe so. Google, in the wake of Palin, is being unhelpful.
I don't think so. Tina Fey was a big supporter of HRC.
Okay, I'll back off the "Republican" thing.
I now claim: Tina Fey is a comedian.
Sometimes, actors play characters that are different from them.
Sometimes, blog commenters act like jerkwads, even when they really aren't in person.
I read 364 as "Sometimes, blog commenters act like jerkwads, even when they really aren't in prison."
Woo-hoo, I out-Googled Tweety!
Okay, I'll back off the "Republican" thing.
Don't. You're right. I don't care if she supported HRC, what I read of her says R. And I know where she grew up.
365 - You know who acted like a jerkwad for five and a half years?
Right now CNN has this big headling, "Sen. John McCain: 'Fight With Me'". This seems somewhat ambiguous.
364: Nice evasive maneuver, jerkwad.
Don't. You're right. I don't care if she supported HRC, what I read of her says R.
So wait, if McCain hadn't nominated her to be VP, Tina Fey would have possibly voted for Obama? Crap.
So sad that Alec Baldwin's the Democrat, and yet a giant dickhead. Oh, Hollywood, why must you make everything so topsy-turvy?
368: that dude with the priors on C block?
There's a profile of Baldwin in the current number of the New Yorker. He comes off pretty well!
John McCain's Foreign Policy: Let's You and Him Fight
And not just because he came out with a sentence like "the goal of the alienating parent is to kill contiguous time."
"Sen. John McCain: 'Fight With Me'". This seems somewhat ambiguous.
It's the new (but 'traditional'!) politics of wankerism. The GOP's got a lock on that, for certain.
Don't. You're right. I don't care if she supported HRC, what I read of her says R. And I know where she grew up.
My sense as well. Which hurts, because she's fantastically talented. (Something I didn't believe prior to 30 Rock but can't deny anymore.) Oh, well.
375: peter, I tried, but this is not working for me. That's McCain's domestic policy. Foreign policy, not so much. Wanna fight about it?
I would have to talk to my mother on the phone this evening and she would ask me, with a twinkle on her voice, to mix metaphors, what I think of this delicious young woman from Alaska with all the babies and the smart backtalk.
I found out today that my mother hates, hates, hates Sarah Palin. "She's a crazy born-again fundamentalist bitch! How can this be happening to America! We used to know who the kooks were! Why aren't the Democrats hitting back?" She sounds like Sifu. (Except for the occasional segue into why Hillary might have been a stronger candidate, would have been attacking back by now, etc).
She sounds like Sifu.
I guess there's no really good time to say this, PGD, but I'm your mom.
I'm about done with septuagenarians, so in the interests of youth and so on, here's photo of a lab group. Your question is, which of the people in the photo is the hot-shot tenured faculty member in charge of the lab?
So, this thing where I open my email and there's a message from Barack Obama or Michelle Obama or Joe Biden? Still haven't gotten used to that.
So sad that Alec Baldwin's the Democrat, and yet a giant dickhead.
What?! I love Alec Baldwin, I truly do. So much so that I'm willing to defend him to the end! (of this thread, that is, but then, who knows how this thread might end? or where it might lead?). Best actor in contemporary America, and I'm not even kidding: watch 30 Rock and you'll see what I mean. Makes Brad Pitt look like an insouciant pretty-boy teenager, I don't care how many babies he and Angelina subsequently adopt. But I guess I'd better go back and read where Baldiwin first gets mentioned, and what was his offense....
384 is right, and the NYer article this week was very good. Baldwin seems a little sad and intense, but not a dickhead.
Alec Baldwin is a hilarious, wonderful, comic actor, and he's at his best when playing dickheads. What does that tell you?
I guess there's no really good time to say this, PGD, but I'm your mom.
This is so painfully funny, it's just funny.
Everything PGD's said about his mom has indicated that these would be her feelings on the Palin matter, anyway.
384: I think the offense was his phone call to his daughter. He was suicidal for months afterwards.
Okay, as far as Baldwin goes, here's the problem.
Baldwin has crazy angry feelings toward Basinger, and is incredibly bitter about the divorce. But all told, I think the attacks on him are overstated.
390: hey, I mean, it's one event, just a phone call, sticks and stones, etcetera. That said, holy crap does that phone call read as a jackoff kind of a move. The kid's eleven.
Of course, all movie stars are fucking shitheads somehow or other. That's how it goes.
What happened with Stormcow and SybilVane's dueling hypotheses of how their steeltown soccer mom acquaintances would respond to the Palin speech?
382: bottom row, second from right?
396: that, bottom row right, or top row second from right.
393: what are you, People magazine?
This is InStyle. People is down the hall.
I am a magazine about people.
Who is John Proctor? People magazine?
That said, holy crap does that phone call read as a jackoff kind of a move. The kid's eleven.
Give me a break. He's a parent and had a bad day. It's allowed. Cripes.
Top row left as played by a younger Lou Diamond Philips.
Bring it, MC.
You win, baby. No contest. My sense of guilt over participating in a guilt competition over the internets pretty much guarantees you first place in the guiltfest which you would have won anyway, but anyway (yeah, take that! nice Jewish boy from Montreal, and I hope you're feeling satisfied, which is to say, feeling guilty...).
Seriously, though: your grandmother. God love her heart. What she must have seen, what she has lived through.
She's the only one touching anyone else and looking proud.
404: I had the same guess. I think it's the arms.
398: One day we'll rumble, Tweety. But not now.
403: heeey, I agree. If only we could get Tina Fey on the horn comparing Palin to a porny librarian.
408: The touching posture nearly swayed me, but the placement violates all conventions concerning status in group photographs. The alpha figure is supposed to be at the corner! I choose not to believe what some random dude on the Internet says.
The alpha figure is supposed to be at the corner!
What?
I confess that I spent an unusual amount of time during the movie portion of this thread thinking you all were talking about this Hawn-Gibson classic.
but the placement violates all conventions concerning status in group photographs. The alpha figure is supposed to be at the corner! I choose not to believe what some random dude on the Internet says.
Those crafty psychologists, you know.
414: Yes, but she probably thinks her lab is highly collaborative. "I'm in charge, but really it's like we're all friends and colleagues, you know?"
415: The person in charge is supposed to be at one end of the standing row. It was ever thus.
I'd really like someone corroboration for Jesus' claim.
Oh, huh. My friend worked in that lab.
420: Yeah, and you probably won't believe it's Him until touch the wounds from the nails, either.
Leave it to the psychologists to mess with my head. I just spit out my meds in the toilet, though, to keep one step ahead of them and their disembodied voices that swarm around me like bees.
Actually, I just want to get my finger in there.
Oh, huh. My friend worked in that lab.
Really? I've known Mara (who runs the lab) since early on in grad school. We were housemates for a couple of years. I hear sociologists say it's a Small World.
Or maybe not. She works in Gerontology.
The voicemail to the daughter means nothing to me. Normal family strife, and so on and etc.
Jesus people, I'm looking for an indictable offense, at the very least . And please don't send me on a trigonometry mission: three columns to the left and two columns down, at a 30 degree angle.
You must know that half the Baldwin brothers are on probation in some white trash county in Long Island, eh? This better be good...
All I can say is that had McCain registered for my class (starts Monday!), he'd be reading selections from J.W. Goethe's Theory of Colours as well as portions of Riley's Color Codes: Modern Theories of Color—enough to know, I submit, not to use that green video backdrop for any reason at all.
not to use that green video backdrop for any reason at all.
What about yellow ties? Does this yellow tie look good? I think it looks good.
The alpha figure is supposed to be at the corner!
Others have asked huh? and I have to, too. Huh?
Sifu, would you be so kind as to email me at mypseud @ nc dot rr dot com?
Apparently, I need a life:
1. Farthest left
2. 2nd from right
3. 2nd from right
4. 2nd from left
5. Back row, farthest right
6. Farthest right
7. Middle row, 2nd from right
8. Pink jacket, middle
9. Front row, black shirt and jeans
430: Recently in color pedagogy people are turning to the work by Joseph Beuys. I know, right? What are academic theorists doing looking at Beuys for guidance on such elementary issues as color? Still, that guy's not going to let you wear that yellow tie under any circumstances.
Mark W/lson has a long section on color in his big book (pp 454–67). Evans' The Perception of Color seems on the basis of that material to be interesting. Though surely somewhat removed from whatever you're after.
I'm after John McCain, ben w-lfs-n!
Actually, that section is itself interesting, though (as always) it's not so clear what W/lson is after (presumably not McCain).
His arms were already smashed. That's really, really uncouth, dude.
Huh. I was thinking of more formal group (class/lab) photos than the ones Bisquick linked. Now I feel incredibly old.
'Smasher: I should read Color Codes, right? Also, do you know your colleague out here who writes for the O?
W-lfs-n, I don't have time for the perception of color, or at least, I don't have the training to teach that, which is why I have installed stained glass in my classroom, with an image of a very frowny McCain.
writes for the O
Oprah Magazine? Mebbe I know someone but I need a better hint. I'd say no to reading Color Codes if you've read a bunch of other things that came before it, since that's mostly what it is (as best as I recall), but then maybe it would just be a satisfying thing for you to do—to read some new and perhaps precedented color theory—and who am I to stand in the way of something so lovely?
As long as we're sharing stuff we've read about color, I'll add that presenting this paper in that one class a couple years ago was a real PITA, as I was not able to understand it without reading a whole lotta background material that I did not pick up from the lecture. But I did find a pretty remarkable thing to think about, having previously assumed there was a one-to-one correspondence between ratios of inputs to the three classes of cones and color perceptions.
Oh, and back in undergrad I had to look at this book for a project. Damn, that shit's intense, was my reaction at the time.
But there are very interesting things about the perception of color that go into what color attributions we make, what color gradients we expect in something that we call some singular color, etc., that would be very interesting to your students, whoever they are!!!
Wait, what the hell is "color theory"?
Yeah, some of the same things that Otto points out with that second link, even.
440.2: Sorry, the Oregonian. David Row.
re: 441
All those colour constancy experiments go back decades. Land's stuff from the 50s and 60s is pretty remarkable.
Despite that, I've still seen philosophy grad students who should know better presenting papers on colour clearly without having reading a single fucking word of the scientific literature.
Speaking of the green screen, did McCain hire his A/V people from Wasilla too? He seems to have vetted them about as well as he did Palin.
In the matter of Tina Fey's possible Republicanism, it comes, at least for me, from a profile of her in the New Yorker circa 2006 or so. NBC was sent anthrax letters, you see, and this really shook her up. She then developed strong feelings on how we must exterminate the brutes or some such.
448 is right - she's a good, frightened liberal elite media type, the ones who place all of their principles behind the imagined safety of their own skin.
At least, that's what she said.
I just had a strange thought: we picked up our torture techniques from SERE. SERE took its torture techniques from the experiences of Vietnam vets. Has anyone asked McCain if he's been waterboarded?
Re: Joseph Beuys: best Beuys story evar:
"Fettecke" ("Fat Corner") was a work of art by the German artist Joseph Beuys. On April 28, 1982, on the occasion of a reception to be held the next day for Lama Sogyal Rinpoché, the envoy of the Dalai Lama in Europe, Beuys applied five kilos of butter to a corner wall in his studio in Room 3 of the Kunstakademie Düsseldorf.In 1986, a janitor at the Kunstakademie removed the butter. Johannes Stüttgen claimed ownership of the work, because Beuys had begun the creation with the words, "Johannes, now I am finally making you your Fat Corner." It came to litigation. After losing an appeal, the state of North Rhine-Westphalia payed damages in the amount of DM40,000....
This was the second time that an artwork by Beuys was not recognized as such and was destroyed.... [The other incident] inspired a well-known television advertisement for a washing up liquid.
452: They really are clowns.
Jesus Sifu, remember, this election is about character, not competence, issues or policies. Every word of ridicule in the liberal blogosphere moves 6 independent votes to McCain. So, like cut it it out and all, for five and half years, John McCain didn't even have a green screen.
Have you discussed the picture of Walter Reed Middle school as maybe an image that was supposed to be Walter Reed Army Hospital?
Tina Fey is sexy and funny. She is so sexy and funny, her cleavage makes me giggle. I think this is the way our grandparents felt about Lucille Ball.
Don't tell me she is a Republican. It ruins things.
455: It was mentioned in 447. But I wouldn't say it was discussed exhaustively. Personally, I'm not sure that story has legs, but I would like desperately for an enterprising photoshopper to do something funny with that green-screen thing.
Sorry, Jesus, I don't know David Row, or I don't recall meeting him.
450: SERE was based on Korea, not Vietnam. The techniques, particularly waterboarding were used by Chinese advisers in N. Korea. I think that is why you used to hear waterboarding called "Chinese Water Torture."
Lucille Ball was a mamber of the Communist Party. Fact.
Lucille Ball was a mamber of the Communist Party.
I always thought "Chinese Water Torture" meant to be put in an isolated room and have water dripped on your head until you went insane.
459 - the Chinese water torture I'm familiar with involves placing the victim so that a slow drip of water falls on their head and leaving them there for days. The torture lies in the anticipation of the next drop.
Incidentally, under the right conditions dripping liquids are chaotic in the formal sense. There's a really cool paper about this from back in the days when chaos theory was just getting started.
460: In Boston they called her the "Black Mamber".
The figure in 433.1 looks strikingly like my sister, at least at that resolution. She surely owns that jacket, anyway.
I read 458 as "Jesus, sorry I don't know David Row" so just stop hassling me about it, man.
460: The episode where Lucy and Ehtel waterboarded Ricky and got him to confess his anti-Castro leanings was a classic.
Nobody has to know David Row. Jesus.
I just found out that a very good friend of mine was through SERE school in the late 90s, when the only people we waterboarded were our own military officers. So yeah, my friend, waterboarded thrice.
Ann and Nancy Wilson do not heart Sarah Palin.
"Sarah Palin's views and values in NO WAY represent us as American women. We ask that our song 'Barracuda' no longer be used to promote her image. The song 'Barracuda' was written in the late 70s as a scathing rant against the soulless, corporate nature of the music business, particularly for women. (The 'barracuda' represented the business.) While Heart did not and would not authorize the use of their song at the RNC, there's irony in Republican strategists' choice to make use of it there." [...] With that elephant in the room, Heart's Nancy Wilson felt compelled to personally respond. "I think it's completely unfair to be so misrepresented," she said in a phone call to EW.com after the speech. "I feel completely f---ed over."
471: christ, have they asked permission to use any of the songs they've played at events? If there was any justice the RIAA would be going after them like they were a penniless grandmother.
471: wait, they don't have to get permission to use these songs? I would have thought they'd have to pay royalties.
Shades of Reagan and 'Born in the USA'
Also, are they perhaps not aware that Sarah Barracuda is not a compliment?
So has anybody yet noticed that the Corner is stealing our lines?
Very important that the Vietnam record was gone over, in this video. But everyone knows about it, right? No. Many citizens would have found out about this for the first time.
"If the real thing don't do the trick
You better make up something quick
You gonna burn burn burn burn it to the wick
Ooooooh, barracuda"
I don't get the third line, but the first two seem to sum up Palin and the Republican Party pretty well.
I almost feel bad for the Republicans. They can't use anybody's songs except, like, Brooks and Dunn. Actually, the lead singer for the Effigies is a downstate IL DA and FedSoc lawyer now. He'd give permission, I'd bet, but the Effigies best known song involves him screaming "I live in a bodybag! Live in a bodybag! bodybag! bodybag! bodybag!"
Buck noted that a random PR woman he was talking to in the course of working yesterday made a crack about "John McCain. Have you heard? I think he was in the military or something." I think he may have overplayed the POW thing enough to look silly even beyond the politically obsessed.
477: the Ramones would probably be down.
And, what, they can't find appropriate songs in the Nuge's catalog? They could drop some tight Charles Johnson fusion joints.
They just aren't looking hard enough.
My band once played with a punk-rock band whose lyrics were all about abortion being, like, shitty and shit. It was a great show till we got home and read the lyrics to the CD they'd given us.
Obama versus McCain: Who has the bigger imaginary penis?
wait, they don't have to get permission to use these songs?
IANAL, much less a copyright expert, but I do know that venues sometimes purchase blanket licenses to use all the songs from a particular record label's catalogue. Coffee shops do this if they are going to have singer/songwriters performing who are covering other people's tunes.
So if a campaign were going to use a song as a theme song, they'd probably need to actually license that particular song. But a venue -- even a really big venue like a convention venue -- might claim they have a blanket license that covers everything from a certain record company.
re: 483
Yeah, but I'd bet an artist could sue.
Jello Biafra would probably never allow it, but they really ought to close out every GOP convention with this song instead.
483: but this has happened, like, over and over again, not just during the convention.
I'm willing to believe it's not technically illegal, but what tacky assholes.
the Ramones would probably be down.
"Hey ho, let's go
Shoot them in the back now
What they want, I don't know
They're all revved up and ready to go."
Seems like "Blitzkrieg Bop" was written for a Republican convention.
i liked the informal atmosphere of the convention, it's so different from any party coinventions i've seen so far
in my understanding shouldn't people respect their opponent, that way the win is more like deserved, no?
Have you discussed the picture of Walter Reed Middle school as maybe an image that was supposed to be Walter Reed Army Hospital?
Josh Marshall notices the real significance of this flub: the fact that the RNC put Mr. I Can't Remember How Many Houses I Own in front of a backdrop that your typical television viewer would take to be a residential mansion.
Where have you gone, Michael Deaver? A Party turns its lonely eyes to you.
It would've been nice to introduce McCain with "It Was A Very Good Year."
Today's A Softer World seems appropriate.
read, this is not a game. The Republicans have done their best ruin everything I love about my country. No respect from me.
Read, American national politics has been pretty vicious for about 40 years, with the Republicans leading the viciousness, so no one here is inclined to be very generous to McCain and Palin. There's no sign that they'll change at all; they have very little positive to run on, so they'll spend the next two months tearing down Obama. So it goes.
shouldn't people respect their opponent
Did you see the festival of mockery and hatred the previous night, read? The Republicans do not run respectful campaigns. McCain pretends it for one night, is all.
483: There's a libertarian tavern in Portland that lets musicians play as long as they only play originals, just because the bar owner doesn't pay the ASCAP fees: The Tugboat, around 10th and Ankeny SW. The owners are very interesting but sometimes excessively intense.
Unemployment up for the eighth straight quarter.
Watching her speech, did anyone else suspect that perhaps Cindy McCain hasn't kicked her addiction to pain killers after all? Very glassy eyed and monotone delivery, very slow shuffling walk. And then the first dude had to basically lead her around stage after McCain's speech. Also, the line about never having felt more proud of her son than when "he strapped on his weapons" was a bit scary.
459: Korea, Vietnam, both had the same uneasy, but culturally transmissive, relationship with China. Five bucks says he was waterboarded.
Tina Fey is not that funny. There, I said it.
So apparently Heart's label is sending a Cease & Desist.
convention
i understand that it's very important for you and people are passionate about it, it's your real life and politics, so it's different maybe for me the outsider
still ridicule and belittlement of your opponent is not in my feeling a good way to enjoy your win
that's just the feeling after i read about bipartisanship of McCain and Palin's the common people's representation appeal, like they have good things to appreciate about them
Also, Sarah Palin went to more colleges than me!
503: read, seriously, the GOP has been way nastier. Don't let the fact that McCain lied to you sway you on this topic.
Palin and three friends went to the University of Hawaii at Hilo after graduation from high school in Alaska in 1982. But they left after a few weeks because of the constant rain, the book said.
Is there any way we can call her dumb without being sexist? Pleeease?
Also I love the fact that she went to college in unamerican Hawaii.
Tina Fey is not that funny. There, I said it.
I feel your pain, Walt, but that's just not true.
She transferred from Hawaii to Idaho -- because of the weather?
after i read about bipartisanship of McCain and Palin's
Thank you AP. Thank you Ron Fournier.
Huh -- Dooce wrote a Vote Obama post and then opened up comments. The young mothers over there don't seem to like Palin much . . .
still ridicule and belittlement of your opponent is not in my feeling a good way to enjoy your win
Oh, read, where has the martial spirit of the steppes gone?
So apparently Heart's label is sending a Cease & Desist.
The McCain campaign is not going to take this sitting down. I predict their new "mockery of mythical cult of personality" commercial will use "Magic Man" as the soundtrack to clips of Obama, and then use "What About Love" as a segue into McCain's love of country, and finally end with "Never! Never! Never run away" over a montage of flags and soldiers and fighter jets.
508: Also I love the fact that she went to college in unamerican Hawaii.
Hmm, need to look at the dates, could she and Obama have "met" at some point. IYKWIM.
515: I'm blaming you for the offensive-to-all-parties video running through my head. Predatory black sexuality! Porn archetypes! Biden and McCain, just old men watching.
the martial spirit of the steppes
in olden times our ancestors buried their enemies with honors or gave their names to their children, Temujin was named after his father's rival
I think he may have overplayed the POW thing enough to look silly even beyond the politically obsessed.
a small, but important, advantage of the saturation is it continually explains his awkward appearance. He doesn't move well, isn't polished, and isn't eloquent. What at first could be discomforting or ridiculed is flipped with the POW meme. The POW meme just makes me think about all the bombs he dropped on civilians as an alien fighter and how, even after that, they bothered saved his life.
Palin and three friends went to the University of Hawaii at Hilo after graduation from high school in Alaska in 1982. But they left after a few weeks because of the constant rain, the book said.
Maybe in her next public appearance she will talk about how she narrowly avoided the fate of Natalie Holloway.
"emphathize with me in several contradictory ways, America!"
515: Someone, somewhere, in the more disturbing corners of the Internet, is inventing a whole new variety of slashfic.
Pretty sure Obama was at Columbia by that point.
Read, the word bipartisanship was used, but there's no real bipartisanship involved. This has been a very aggressively partisan convention so far.
"Temujin" --that kind of naming is a little bit of a taunt, too, though.
If you want to see a very similar warrior ethic in the West, take a look at "Beowulf". The translations don't bring out the poetic brilliance of the original, but the story is not too far from the stories in steppe epics. (Beowulf is pagan with thin Christianity; most surviving steppe epics are Muslim or Buddhist with a pagan / shamanist basis, I think).
I love Heart all over again. What are the chances Abba will dissociate itself from the McCain campaign? Will the Starland Vocal Band reject and denounce?
I think that ABBA already has. "Dancing Queen" and "Fernando" weren't really very good theme songs, anyway.
I think that ABBA already has. "Dancing Queen" and "Fernando" weren't really very good theme songs, anyway.
"Waterloo" sends the wrong message about a guy whose reputation is based on a series of military victyories and is now going after his biggest battle yet. And the lyrics of "Super Trooper" aren't really about the military at all.
The Republicans should stick with sports anthems, like "Rock and Roll Pt. II" and "We are the Champions" They are good in stadiums, pump up tribalism and victory, and hey did you hear they let Gary Glitter out of jail?
taunt
i never thought about that custom that way, just always thought it was the most possible honor,
strange, but i like double paradoxes, so maybe your interpretation is true
sway you on this topic
i wouldn't switch the sides of course just b/c of someone's nice speech, most people maybe won't
i was talking about the general attitude of the presidential race that it has to be nasty, so it objectively has to be nasty, got it
though it seems the other thread argues against it
After the past couple days, I'm actually feeling more on read's side right now. I'm tired of the politics of irrelevant bullshit.
People care about issues like the economy and health care. McCain's polices on these issues are the same ones we've seen the past 8 years. "Tax cuts will solve everything." It is clear now that they won't. Vote Obama to get us out of this mess.
There, that was a short understandable message that didn't insult anyone and relied on the issues. From now on that is my talking point.
That's a bold stand you're taking, rob, adopting the message of the Obama campaign and the national Democratic party.
I know you guys are sick of the whole McCain was a POW thing, but you need to look at it from the frame of "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence". The public really doesn't give a shit about the specifics. The public is responding his being tested in a very difficult way, physically, mentally and emotionally and that he came through that test. I think that is harder to wish away than the lack of experience thing for Obama.
Part of McCain's appeal is the authenticity thing: "He wasn't always a big phony". Any politician who was ever something "real" milks it as much as he can.
The public really doesn't give a shit about the specifics.
Specifics meaning policies, proposals and issues? Maybe so.
We really do need to make the Presidency a ceremonial post for war heroes and aristocrats. Maybe then people will start making serious choices in electing a Chief Executive.
529: I didn't say it was bold. Its just not the politics of irrelevant bullshit. There's been a lot of irrelevant bullshit thrown around recently.
The POW thing is an amazing story, for sure, but the constant harping on it yesterday (He spent five years -- in a box! A man who spends five years -- in a box! -- doesn't do it to cater to lobbyists! A man who spends five years -- in a box! -- is only answerable to himself!) bordered on parody, and sounded ridiculous.
Liberty has no valence here.
Sifu's trying to conjure up ogged again.
The American people aren't willing to vote for a draft dodger named "Marion", TLL.
The public is responding his being tested in a very difficult way, physically, mentally and emotionally and that he came through that test.
And if Sarah Palin was going to keep him in a tin hut and beat him until 2012, that experience might mean something to me. Unfortunately, being a POW really doesn't bear the slightest resemblance to being president.
Unfortunately, being a POW really doesn't bear the slightest resemblance to being president.
I'm sure the base thinks it does. You have your SIMPLE VALUES, that are perfectly straightforward to hold on to, and the liberal elite and the media and the special interests beat you with sticks to try to get you to give them up. But if you're strong, you'll hold out!
if Sarah Palin was going to keep him in a tin hut and beat him
We're not supposed to talk about the pr0n thing, Apo.
And if Sarah Palin was going to keep him in a tin hut and beat him until 2012
This is a performance/installation that would put Joseph Beuys to shame.
Apo, don't be dense. Nothing has the slightest resemblance to being President, except being President. Being through an ordeal as difficult as being a POW doesn't qualify him to be President, but it does inform us as to what is sometimes called "character". Disagree with policy all you want, that's your right. But don't try to minimize the experience.
The American people aren't willing to vote for a draft dodger named "Marion", TLL.
But they voted for Jimmy Stewart, not John Wayne. Stewart flew how many combat missions? I'm sure it's online somewhere.
Something about this screams Unfogged: odd book titles.
I'm thinking about ordering Living With Crazy Buttocks.
it does inform us as to what is sometimes called "character". '
Insofar as you believe in "character," or believe that it's persistent, or believe that the radically different experience of being a POW (or cheating on your wife, or following a diet, etc.) informs you about that character in a way that is relevant to performance as President.
The Republican party has become the Oprah party, if not the party of Oprah.
At this point, John McCain is minimizing the experience, by trying to use it as a cheap manipulation tool. I once admired McCain, in part because of his experiences, but now all that is left of his "character" is his desire for power, and his willingness to do anything to get it.
I agree with Apo. Based on what we know about McCain, he was of doubtful character both before and after his POW time. Too erratic, too impulsive, too egotistical, too hot-tempered, and too careless about detail. He's tough, but that's not enough.
There are a cerain number of other Americans who went through things harder than McCain did and are tougher than McCain, but most of them wouldn't be good Presidents either.
Factoid: George McGovern flew 35 combat missions in WWII and was featured in Stephen Ambrose's "The Wild Blue". Most pilots were killed before they flew that many missions. No one said that that made him a good candidate. He was just a peacenik coward wimp. (Mark Hatfield, another peacenik wimp, piloted a landing craft at Dday, and also was on Iwo Jima.)
547.last is one reason why most political usage of the word `character' is complete bullshit.
Following a diet, Tim? Please. And what is "experience" if not informed by character. Something happens to you, you react. Others observe and make their judgment. Some experiences are more difficult than others, and the decisions made under duress are the only things we can extrapolate from. Literal life and death decisions do matter more than hypothetical ones, imho.
Any politician who was ever something "real" milks it as much as he can.
And if you're a politician who was never something real, you clear brush or, like Reagan, chop wood.
It seems unfair to hold McCain responsible for having broken under torture. Being tortured reveals nothing about one's character.
Now torturing - or refusing to oppose torture, as McCain has done - that reveals something about character.
He's tough, but that's not enough.
I have no problem with you coming to that conclusion, JE. "Guts is not enough" is the perfect rejoined to the McCain campaign, not "Guts don't matter", cuz they do.
As I said, based on what I know about McCain, his character is not good.
There's a guy around here who says he was a LRP in Vietnam. If what he says is true, he was a super tough guy. He's also a total mess and knows it. He sure wouldn't be a good President.
During the Republican primaries, Republicans were pointing out that McCain's military experience mostly consisted of crashing planes. Once heroically, once stupidly, once bad luck, and several other times.
Yglesias was on this a while ago: the ability to refuse temptation and undergo physical suffering has nothing to do with the ability to withstand moral temptation, the courage to resist torture is not the courage to compromise, etc. We're electing McCain to be the most important politician, and as one, he has not proven himself very well. The problem is that conservatism doesn't seem to believe in demonstrating valor in politics—just bringing it from more militaristic endeavors.
Gerald Ford never flew any planes, but he showed some real heroism in dealing with at least one shipwide disaster when he was in the Navy in WWII. His name was also "Leslie". Neither of these things was seen as qualifying him or disqualifying him for any national office.
When do guts of the physical sort that McCain has matter as president? When Putin challenges you to go n rounds with him in the boxing ring?
Welcome to Presidential Chess-boxing, on ESPN.
"waving the bloody shirt" has a long history in politics, quite separate from "the man on the white horse". They are not the same thing, although they are frequently used together.
Haven't you been watching, TLL? McCain the Presidential candidate has abandoned the guts that McCain the POW once showed. He flip-flopped on his opposition to torture, for God's sake. For his campaign, he hired the man that ran a whisper campaign in South Carolina that he had a secret black baby. He brings up his POW experience for the cheapest political advantage. Whatever character he once had is gone.
When Putin challenges you to go n rounds with him in the boxing ring?
Did you see that thing on the news the other day about Putin shooting the tiger? I thought to myself has "Pravda" taken over the evening news?
Putin will shoot the tiger of India, and then the dragon of China, and then the capybara of Brazil, and will lord over all the emerging powerful economies, and we should fear!
Haven't you been watching, TLL?
Not really. I did not favor McCain during the primaries, and was a little surprised he came out ahead. I really thought it would be Guiliani, but he was unable to connect with "the people".
Abandoning principles in the name of compromise is the art of politics, or so I am told.
What's the mightiest animal in Brazil? Obviously the Russian bear would be at the mercy of piranhas if he traveled down there, but the piranhas would not survive in the Arctic rivers.
I thought to myself has "Pravda" taken over the evening news?
Isn't that in some sense what Fox news is? Of course having other networks changes the context, but still ... there are a lot of parallels.
I'm still waiting for a taker. The Burmese managed to depict waterboarding despite not being in the Korean war. I'm thinking this is cultural diffusion, but I could be wrong.
Palin and three friends went to the University of Hawaii at Hilo
I was just riding in the elevator and saw some video of Palin doing the shaka gesture to a crowd, and was like huh?!
Guess that explains it. Still very, very weird to see, though.
I'm thinking this is cultural diffusion, but I could be wrong.
No, it's innate, from back on the veldt.
Jaguars keep to their selves. Never been to brazil, but my time in the bolivian jungle tells me that the biggest danger is disease. That, and drinking something just because a "shaman" tells you to.
Being through an ordeal as difficult as being a POW doesn't qualify him to be President, but it does inform us as to what is sometimes called "character".
McCain's work to recover the remains of POWs says more about his "character" than any scar he bears from torture. That's work to take pride in. Surprisingly, the campaign hasn't made much out that part of McCain's biography, preferring to dwell pruriently on his torture. Christ, it's practically medieval the way the campaign likes to linger on the stigmata of John Sydney McCain III.
Shooting tigers, wrestling grizzlies...the trend is clear. As obesity rates rise to world-historic levels, a fat and flabby people rise up pick up the remote to demand a politics that is more muscular and manly. They want men like John McCain. And Sarah Palin.
Putin really does scare me. I suspect him of grand aspirations.
572: Surprisingly, the campaign hasn't made much out that part of McCain's biography
Yes, because to do that he had to *negotiate* with the dirty fucking commies. Too nuanced for the base (and has been pointed out here somewhere, he gets a lot of shit from the *real* nutjobs on that count).
Just enduring is hard, but it's an uncomplicated kind of hard. Same for making a straightforward, binary decision. That's not the kind of character and courage that's most important in a President, who has to make decisions that are morally and practically complicated.
Tropical parasites terrify me. Some of them you can never get rid of. Some of them bore their way out through your eyeball, or make your kidney into a cozy little burrow, or turn your brain to Swiss cheese. The carnivores are much, much less frightening.
I still may suspect Palin of the Canadian ursophiliac vice, or maybe not, but I wouldn't dare say a word about it if I did, anyway.
Swiss head cheese too. Mmmmmm.
Swiss dick cheese, not really.
579: is that so? You should write a travel guide!
Some experiences are more difficult than others, and the decisions made under duress are the only things we can extrapolate from.
Short response here. More if you search the archives for "John Doris."
Literal life and death decisions do matter more than hypothetical ones, imho.
To my recollection, it was a decision about torture and dishonor. FWIW, to my mind, that does him more credit.
543 - Oh, sure. John Wayne is just a bizarre trigger for my rants; I really think the man was kind of despicable. (Jimmy Stewart, despite being a hawk's hawk somewhat to the right of Ronald Reagan, is fine by me.)
I do loves me some Fort Apache, though.
My cheese opinions are purely subjective and personal, Sifu. Man is never more alone than when he is experiencing various cheeses.
Being through an ordeal as difficult as being a POW doesn't qualify him to be President, but it does inform us as to what is sometimes called "character".
It really doesn't. Since McCain was considered a special prisoner, he was held apart from other POWs in a separate area. Sometimes other POWs were moved there temporarily before being released. A couple of senior ranking POWs have said they doubt he was physically harmed. And McCain got the Vietnamese to seal his prison records a long time ago. (Obligatory disclaimer) Not saying he wasn't tortured; just to what extent is not certain, especially physically.
576 - A friend of mine once got a case of Putse fly larva. Nasty things lay eggs on clothing, which hatch when they come in contact with warm skin, burrowing into the skin to feed and grow until they burst out and fly away, the circle of life complete. His buddy convinced him that the only way to handle this is to heat a spoon red hot and then press it down on the affected area, sterilizing the skin to a depth of several millimeters. This worked, but damn if he wasn't pissed when my mom told him all he needed to do was apply a thick layer of vaseline to cut of the oxygen and then let his body's immune system deal with the dead bodies. The lesson being: don't take medical advice from 17 year old boys.
If you've an appetite for disgusting pictures, Google image search "Cordylobia anthropophaga"
In "Midnight Cowboy" Brad Pitt's father in law is also told that John Wayne is a fag.
Verdict: fag!
I've always wondered in what capacity a POW can refuse to be released.
If you've an appetite for disgusting pictures, Google image search "Cordylobia anthropophaga"
Most effective Apo dog-whistle ever.
588: I have no appatite for parasite pictures.
I used to work at a medical center next to a parasitologist who had an eerie enthusiasm for her work. She's always be posting things about cool new parasites. Sje was a very ordinary, conventional, mousy-looking woman and I always thought she should go on "What's my line?"
587: if you've got any evidence of that, link to it, because it contradicts everything I've ever heard. It could totally swing the election!
Here's an interesting piece on McCain's collaboration under torture, which he has never concealed:
http://www.docudharma.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=8832
Just enduring is hard, but it's an uncomplicated kind of hard. Same for making a straightforward, binary decision. That's not the kind of character and courage that's most important in a President, who has to make decisions that are morally and practically complicated.
This is just what a liberal relativist would say. You lack the gift of moral clarity. Knowing the right thing is always simple, doing it is hard because the evil people try to stop you!
592: But do you have an appetite for apatite? Maybe that's where your teeth went.
Apo, don't be dense. Nothing has the slightest resemblance to being President
Not true. Being CEO of a company bears resemblance. Being a governor, working in Congress, or mayor of a big city. They all have experiences that prepare a person (as much as one can claim to be prepared) for the presidency. Having your limbs broken and sealed in a box, not so much. It's a moving and impressive story, to be certain, and there's nobody who wouldn't play it up if they were running for president, so it isn't that I think it's unseemly of him. I just don't think it informs us much about what sort of president he'd make, and certainly vastly less so than his record in the House and Senate.
On another note, DON'T EVER DOUBT THE ENQUIRER.
On another note, DON'T EVER DOUBT THE ENQUIRER.
Don't get your hopes up. As I understand it, the Enquirer has only made the claim that someone involved in the divorce has made that charge. Gawd only knows how accurate the charge is, but I understand that divorce proceedings can get sufficiently nasty that you ought not bet on it.
Don't get your hopes up.
TOO LATE!
It appears the court denied the motion to have them sealed.
What Tim said. Someone made the allegation doesn't make it true.
But under the assumption that the Enquirer's right about the allegations, that's certainly going to add something to the whole circus.
598: It would be great.
McCain-Palin '08: Cheating On Your Spouse is Wrong, But Not That Wrong!
Palin also never sold Murkowski's plane on Ebay.
If the media doesn't call out the investigators for not calling out Palin for stonewalling, we need to burn shit down.
I am really loving the Walter Reed Middle School thing.
604: And the West Wing connection is just weird.
Don't be so sure. The mentally deranged Christians and pitiful klutzes both together put McCain and Palin over the top. Adding occasional adulterers to the tally will give them a landslide.
On another note, DON'T EVER DOUBT THE ENQUIRER.
Apo had seen the light. Was it the Edwards thing, or your fourth viewing of "Men in Black"?
556
"When do guts of the physical sort that McCain has matter as president? ..."
They matter some. Historically President is a dangerous job. A certain amount of courage is helpful.
I've never seen Men in Black, so let's chalk it up to Johnny Sunshine's guiltalicious adventure.
For example, if I had a President entirely in my power.... oh, never mind. I bet I could break McCain, though.
608: I don't think "it's a dangerous job" gets you to "elect the guy you think is more physically courageous". Presumably anyone running is courageous enough to put themselves in the amount of danger they expect from being President, or they wouldn't run.
If you had some reason to think that physical courage would help a candidate be a better president, that would mean you should vote for the braver person, but just the danger of the job doesn't get you there.
I can't help thinking the "physical courage" requirement would rule out both McCain and Biden, while making the Obama/Palin ticket a sure winner!
If you had some reason to think that physical courage would help a candidate be a better president
If you have some reason to think that physical courage matters to the quality of a Presidency, either you're insane or our power as country has dropped off the biggest cliff in the world. Is there any position on earth that requires less physical courage? How big is the Secret Service (which I totally love, Mr. G-man)?
How big is the Secret Service I think they have like 2000 sworn officers in sum. That includes a buttload out in the field looking for counterfeiters.
Right, the president doesn't even drive his own car.
I get that there is a difference between physical courage and emotional or intellectual courage or whatever you want to call standing up for your principles. That's what the whole Maverick thing is about, bucking his support system to do "what's right", or compromise or whatever. The ability to do something that one knows, or fears, will cause one's self pain is called courage. I think that is something we want in our leaders.
617: except that what he actually does is desperately pander until somebody tells him he can't have what he wants, at which point he does something petulant and impulsive.
Oh, that. Quit paying attention, Sifu. You'll be happier.
611
"... Presumably anyone running is courageous enough to put themselves in the amount of danger they expect from being President, or they wouldn't run."
People's self-assessment of whether they have an adequate amount of courage for the job is unreliable. Just like their self-assessment of whether they have an adequate amount of experience or intelligence. And none of these are binary qualities, more is better even if you are above the minimum requirement.
Nothing has the slightest resemblance to being President
I think we're missing a point in this whole discussion.
The president swears an oath to defend the constitution. His/her job is to execute and enforce the laws. It strikes me that knowing and understanding the constitution and laws is an important job qualification for president.
There's a lot wrong with legal education, and putting Regent graduates aside, law school and teaching con law will at least get one acquainted with phrases such as 'nor deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law'. With luck, and certainly with someone as smart as Obama, that experience is going to give him an understanding of the US constitution and legal system that the Mayor of Wherever or the Governor of Alaska just won't get in their on-the-job training.
A person can come out of the experience of those schools with decidedly peculiar views (see Posner) but at least one will have some background to appreciate why asking the town librarian whether they'd be willing to let the mayor do a content based purge of the collection might be troubling.
It used to be said (with a straight face) that we had a government of laws and not of men. That's become quaint, but I'd like to see it return. It implies that personal characteristics (courage, faith, executive experience) are less important than knowledge and understanding of law. I think that's true.
613
"If you have some reason to think that physical courage matters to the quality of a Presidency, either you're insane or our power as country has dropped off the biggest cliff in the world. Is there any position on earth that requires less physical courage? ..."
Reagan got shot. By most accounts he reacted courageously and this helped his Presidency.
Every time I hear "Maverick" I think "Bart or Bret?". That's a bad sign, isn't it?
I don't remember Reagan acting courageously in any real sense. He made a cute remark from his hospital bed, IIRC. His protectors acted courageously.
The president swears an oath to defend the constitution. His/her job is to execute and enforce the laws. It strikes me that knowing and understanding the constitution and laws is an important job qualification for president.
Lawyers make the worst executives. Too much emphasis on why you can't do something, instead of how you ca.
Every time I hear "Maverick" I think "Bart or Bret?".
No love for "Beau"?
I don't remember Reagan acting courageously in any real sense.
He acted courageously in this movie I once saw, can't remember the name of it.
Yeah, I loved that movie. You could tell Reagan was really brave.
Reagan held political principles when they were unpopular. McCain just jumps from grandstand issue to issue. He's just the POW guy. He's flipped so many times, people sometimes believe he holds a view opposite to his. Ask him about a flip and he just lies knowing that you know he's lying because he's the POW guy. He's courageous like an asshole bully is.
Reagan held political principles when they were unpopular
Like using national guardsmen on protesters?
Beau! I'd forgotten Beau. It must be old age.
Lawyers make the worst executives. Too much emphasis on why you can't do something, instead of how you can
Feature, not bug. I think the world would be a better place had there been more emphasis on why we can't abduct people on US soil and send them somewhere to be tortured, why we can't hold people wthout charge or access to a court, why it's a bad idea to politicize the DOJ, and a whole buch of other things. It may be good for the CEO of a business to be an adventurous risk taker, but for the US president, not so much.
Reagan held political principles when they were unpopular.
Examples? I'm not snarking; I'm interested.
631- Fuck you. I didn't say his principals were favorable and said nothing about his decisions.
Lawyers make the worst executives.
Ladies and gentleman, I give you Anthony Charles Lynton "Tony" Blair.
625
"I don't remember Reagan acting courageously in any real sense. He made a cute remark from his hospital bed, IIRC. His protectors acted courageously."
He kept up a brave front under somewhat trying circumstances. Not the biggest deal in the world but not nothing either.
Close to nothing, especially when you don't know whether he actually said it or whether it was scripted. The Reagan Administration PR machine was state of the art.
632. All good examples, but sometimes bold action is required, like sending federal troops to enforce desegregation. Thanks, Ike.
638
"Close to nothing, especially when you don't know whether he actually said it or whether it was scripted. The Reagan Administration PR machine was state of the art."
From wikipedia:
"In the operating room, Reagan remarked, "Please tell me you're all Republicans." Giordano, a liberal Democrat, replied, "We're all Republicans today.""
You think this exchange was invented?
640, don't worry about it; it was jerky of me.
I don't see why people would doubt that he said that. That's the kind of thing politicians say all the time. It's just like if he showed up at a Rotary Club meeting in San Francisco, got a round of applause and saying "Phew, I thought I was surrounded by a bunch of Democrats!"
643
"Wiki is not an authority."
The exchange was widely reported at the time. See for example this NYT story:
"As President Reagan was wheeled into the operating room yesterday afternoon, he looked up at his surgeons and said: ''Please tell me you're Republicans.''
The President got only half his wish. Dr. Benjamin Larry Aaron is a Republican.Dr. Joseph Martin Giordano is a Democrat, but he had comforting words for the man about to undergo surgery at George Washington University Hospital.
''Mr. President,'' he said, ''right now, everybody is a Republican.'' As it happened, both the men who operated for nearly three hours on the Commander in Chief of the armed forces had practiced in United States military hospitals."
Well, my main point is that it wasn't much of a sign of physical courage, but just a wisecrack. But it's also one of the kinds of saying that often is apocryphal, and Reagan had lots of writers working for him. Who was the NYT source?
He actually told more apocryphal stories, about his war experiences for example, than people told about him, so maybe I'm wrong. He was a king of the anecdote.
646
"Well, my main point is that it wasn't much of a sign of physical courage, but just a wisecrack. ..."
Wisecracking in the face of danger is generally considered a sign of physical courage.
No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!
I'm really totally unimpressed. It's not like he was storming Omaha Beach or something. In some mild way this may give him some physical courage points, compared to if he was wetting his pants and crying for mommy, but it's a pretty slender argument.
Beyond that, I don't think of Reagan as being of good character. He was a fantasist and flimflam man.
a fantasist and flimflam man
An actor, in other words
650
"Beyond that, I don't think of Reagan as being of good character. ..."
Lots of people of bad character nonetheless have physical courage.
You retreat ditch by ditch, don't you, Shearer?
We started out arguing whether McCain's physical courage meant good character. I argued that, in itself, it did not, certainly not in a way to qualify him for office. I did not deny his physical courage, and beyond would concede that there's a sort of endurance or toughness involved.
Then we started arguing about whether Reagan's wisecracks indicated physical courage. I again argued that this is true only in a very small way. If there's other evidence of courage, I guess a wisecrack might be added to the evidence.
I then went back to the original argument, which had been about McCain, and added that Reagan didn't seem to be of good character either, because of his dishonesty, opportunism, and weak reality sense.
653
What am I retreating from? I continue to claim that physical courage is a desirable trait for a President. One among many of course.
Move aside Huxley, Orwell, Dick, the rest of you patzers; Idiocracy is the one that's going to get it right.
Have you made any arguments to that effect? You asserted that in 608 but what you've mostly been arguing is that Reagan had physical courage, and secondly that this doesn't mean he had good character, which was somewhat irrelevant to your main point, and if anything an argument against it.
658
I brought up Reagan in 623 in an attempt to illustrate how physical courage can matter even given the Secret Service. Since it was being claimed (613) that:
""If you have some reason to think that physical courage matters to the quality of a Presidency, either you're insane or our power as country has dropped off the biggest cliff in the world. Is there any position on earth that requires less physical courage? How big is the Secret Service (which I totally love, Mr. G-man)?"
The fact that the position of President comes with a large team of professional bodyguards is not actually a sign that it is safe.
I continue to claim that physical courage is a desirable trait for a President.
Physical courage is a desirable trait for anybody. The president is less likely than a convenience store clerk to have to use it for anything.
The president is less likely than a convenience store clerk to have to use it for anything.
Seriously, that's a bug not a feature. We should make the veto stamp really heavy or something. Or make the Oval Office accessible only by completing the American Gladiators Eliminator.
Annoying upper class bleg:
Okay, so here's a random question. Does anyone know for certain the cut-off date for primary vs. general election contributions to the Obama campaign? I'm trying to figure out how much to contribute to max out as an Obama donor in the general election. I made one post-convention contribution of $100 (on September 4th) and a number of contributions prior to that (from February 2008 through June 2008). Anybody know FOR CERTAIN that I've only contributed $100 to the general election? I don't want to get anyone in trouble -- especially myself.
Thanks!
