Re: See, I Was Right

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Sarah Palin is the new "men watching their wives giving birth".


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 4:47 PM
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OK, two possible adultery partners have been named so far.

Karl Rove has the goddamnedest ways of controlling our minds. What a genius.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 4:49 PM
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Stirling Newberry calls Barack Obama the Baby Bush.

It's real simple:somebody says "tax cuts" I reach for my pistol. Reaganism redux.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 4:59 PM
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Karl Rove should blackmail the Republican Party by threatening to switch sides.


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 4:59 PM
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Emerson's final comment in that thread is the funniest thing I've read so far during this electoral season.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:00 PM
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Did anyone else see the server error 500 earlier today?

That was my doing. It'll happen more frequently unless I start receiving tribute.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:05 PM
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Stirling is amazing in his clarity today:

Neither version should inspire much confidence, but at least you can be sure that since Barak Obama intends to destroy the American economy, that he will make it look good with sunglasses, and be able to do it.

Obama's main economic plan is to cut taxes. He is promising less for renewable energy over 10 years, longer than he is constitutionally able to be in office, than Bush has gotten to blow in 6 months in Iraq. He is promising trillions for tax cuts. Those tax cuts will go straight to oil prices, banks, health insurance, and assorted other interests that have pricing power. A simple example is what happened with the middle class portions of his tax package: wages went down as employers cut raises and benefits, knowing the Uncle Sam was cushioning the blow. The same thing will happen again, as a poor labor market will give employers the choice of whether to let employees keep the reduction in tax rates, or keep it themselves by simply not giving any raises and increasing employee contributions to benefits.

Only taxes & gov't spending can decrease inequality. Tax cuts always redistribute upwards.
Barack Obama = Reagan.

I haven't sat out an election in thirty years.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:06 PM
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I sent you tribute, ben, and this is the thanks I get?


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:06 PM
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7 was me, and more than enough. Have a good weekend.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:08 PM
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I'm glad that so far the only blog I'm aware of to post about the adultery story is Andrew Sullivan. On the other hand, that was the "left-wing Democrat" blog cited in the earlier Republican complaints about left-wing Democrat blogs.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:08 PM
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You'd think that if tax cuts led directly to proportionately reduced wages, then tax hikes would lead to proportionately increased wages, and someone other than Stirling Newberry would have proposed this exciting free lunch policy to one or the other of the parties.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:10 PM
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That tribute has either not yet been received or is still being processed by my lackadaisical servants, ari.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:10 PM
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How much did you send, Ari? Does W-lfs-n accept PayPal?


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:12 PM
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This is the first I've heard of the Palin affair. What great news. Don't most famous affairs these days involve sex tapes? There's almost nothing that could be better for our nation right now than for a Palin sex tape to leak onto the internet. And I say that entirely without prurient interest.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:16 PM
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I would be surprised if W-lfs-n accepted tribute in currency other than gold, slaves or ivory.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:18 PM
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Directing the (no doubt Republican) divorcing guy to mysteriously seal his divorce proceedings in order to create these unfounded rumors and speculation is just the kind of thing that Rove would consider doing, as a so-called "ratfuck". Don't give in!


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:20 PM
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Apparently the court turned him down.

This clownshow is too good to be true. It's gotta be Rove.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:21 PM
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I sent him a series of pieces of paper, numbered sequentially, with words and images printed on each. But he claims not to have received my tribute, which would explain the problems with the blog earlier today. Next time I'll try sending virgins. Maybe that will placate an angry god like ben.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:22 PM
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Send extra-virgins, just in case.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:25 PM
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McCain's now running against the press, which makes them angry, which means that highly motivated investigative journalists currently outnumber caribou in Alaska, a state where corruption really is just an everyday part of politics, which means that it's only a matter of time until some reporter or another turns over the right rock. I'm guessing that even with a little bounce, and a little momentum, this is not a comfortable time to be John McCain.

In short, our craven culture will generate all the scandal any of us can stomach before too long. Just wait.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:26 PM
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My ursophiliac rumors haven't got much traction so far.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:28 PM
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Even your stomach, John, may not be strong enough for what's coming next. Seriously, this is an unvetted governor of the most corrupt state in the Union, a member of a political party that seeks elected office mostly as a way of getting the keys to the till, and a woman who has not once but twice lied directly to the American people about an issue that's a matter of public record. Is there any doubt at all that some sordid shit lurks in her past? I think not.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:32 PM
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Don't bother with virgins; I'd prefer women with some experience under the belt.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:34 PM
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So what you're saying, ari, is that the Republicans' only chance was to have her present herself to the nation as instead of as Ann Coulter, and they blew it?

The incredible predictability of the "convention bounces" has now convinced me that the "fundamentals" are all that matters anyway. No more worrying about day-to-day events.

Now if only I knew what the "fundamentals" are. Really, the fundamentals predicted that Dukakis's 18-point lead and Kerry's 10-point lead would evaporate? Is turnout one of the fundamentals?


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:35 PM
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I've known many people in and from Alaska, and they have an impressive craziness about them. I'd sort of like the craziness if it weren't so Republican / Libertarian.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:35 PM
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Is there any doubt at all that some sordid shit lurks in her past? I think not.

Probably. But will any of it see the light of day in the next 60 days? The rock-turning track record of the press isn't encouraging on that front.

Aside from the Enquirer, of course.


Posted by: Gabriel | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:36 PM
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So what you're saying, ari, is that the Republicans' only chance was to have her present herself to the nation as someone who people will feel sorry for if she's criticized, instead of as Ann Coulter, and they blew it? Maybe her return to an undisclosed location for retooling is going to be an an attempt to reverse that error.

The incredible predictability of the "convention bounces" has now convinced me that the "fundamentals" are all that matters anyway. No more worrying about day-to-day events.

Now if only I knew what the "fundamentals" are. Really, the fundamentals predicted that Dukakis's 18-point lead and Kerry's 10-point lead would evaporate? Is turnout one of the fundamentals?


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:37 PM
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For example:

Thirteen charges were investigated and four were ultimately found to have merit. Those included charges that he tasered his 11 year-old stepson, shot a moose out of season, drove drunk in his trooper car and threatened to "put a bullet in the fucking brain" of Palin's father.

For this he got a ten-day suspension, reduced to five on appeal.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:38 PM
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then tax hikes would lead to proportionately increased wages

...proportionate to profits? They do. 1930s, 40, 50s. 1990s. Real Relative wages decreasing under the tax cut regimes. It is that simple, and Obama knows what he is doing.

I don't think tax-cut Keynesianism is really Keynes at all, and like I said, anybody who doesn't favor massive gov't spending financed by confiscatory taxes (not deficits, deficits were an emergency plan) on high incomes (not capital) is abusing Keynes.

Read the last section of the General Theory.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:42 PM
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29: As I understand it, Obama supports increased taxes on high incomes, as you say. Since we have such incredible inequality right now, those taxes could do a lot of good (raise a lot of revenue) without being "confiscatory".


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:44 PM
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28: This is the brother-in-law, right? Now, is he the one who's alleged that Palin had an affair? He's not coming across as my idea of a reliable source.

It really is a three-ring circus. Mr MC (who's in DC working on his Gitmo case), emailed me this observation earlier today:

"McCain's meeting with Levi is like that scene where Burns has to eat the 3-eyed fish to show that the nuclear plant's radioactivity doesn't bother him. See, he's down with imperfect folks too!"


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:44 PM
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Yeah, but apparently there are other people saying it, and possibly documentation via a divorce case.

I can't believe how karl Rove has suckered us all with his fiendish plan.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:46 PM
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27: I have no idea, really, how she could have inoculated herself against the press scrutiny that she now faces. And I still think that she may well have been the best choice, politically speaking, that McCain could have made. In the end, all I'm saying is that McCain's tactics du jour are risky business given: a) that his running mate hasn't been vetted. b) where she's from. c) the people she counts as her friends. I don't know that the scandal will be anything salacious -- indeed I hope it isn't. But it's going to be something. Regardless, we'll know soon enough, I expect.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:52 PM
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McCain's meeting with Levi is like that scene where Burns has to eat the 3-eyed fish to show that the nuclear plant's radioactivity doesn't bother him.

Now that's the funniest thing I've read during the campaign. No offense, John, yours was really good, too.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:53 PM
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32: What's Rove's fiendish plan again? To make us all obsess over Palin?

Meanwhile, Greenwald has what seemed to me this interesting post on early poll results regarding Palin's reception in general. I haven't read the comments. And of course these are early poll results; I haven't looked to see who's being polled.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 5:59 PM
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I don't know that the scandal will be anything salacious -- indeed I hope it isn't.

Really? I'm hoping for the salaciousest scandal ever.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:01 PM
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I'm re-posting the link to this "open letter" to Sarah Palin from the earlier thread since everyone should read it.

Seriously, one of the best written attacks I've seen. It that takes her to task as an anti-choice woman and it's a great example of an attack that could only be made by another woman.

I've followed some of those "fetus rights" stories, but I found that framing, of putting them in a "letter" to Sarah Palin to be extremely effective.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:03 PM
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Really? I'm hoping for the salaciousest scandal ever.

Word. Christian crusader sex scandals are the Wagyu steak of scandals.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:08 PM
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Christian crusader sex scandals are the Wagyu steak of scandals.

Too much fat. If there is a sex tape, I hope they are hardbodies. Otherwise, blech.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:12 PM
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Too much fat.

That's marbling, TLL. And it's the most flavorful part.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:14 PM
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If there is a sex tape, I hope they are hardbodies.

I just hope they're gay.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:17 PM
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Pali having sex with a gay man? Yucky all around.

Sen. Coleman on Minnesota may be available.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:19 PM
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Wow, that other thread got entertaining after I stopped following it. I'm trying to understand what "impersonal genitalia" would be.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:19 PM
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Everyone should go read Nick's link. Especially:

I am just wondering though, if you have thought about what would happen if you succeeded in getting your position -- that fetuses have a right to life -- established as the law of the land? Did you know that it not only threatens the lives, health and freedom of women who might want or need someday to end their pregnancies, it would also give the government the power to control the lives of women -- like you who -- go to term?

...

You did not immediately go to the hospital -- instead you gave your speech and then waited at least 11 hours to get to a hospital. You evaluated the risks, made a choice, and were able to carry on your life without state interference. Texas Governor Rick Perry worried about your pregnancy but didn't stop you from speaking or take you into custody to protect the rights of the fetus.

Emphasis mine.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:23 PM
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That's marbling

For the steaks, yeah. For the hardbodies, not so much. I did try telling my wife all that extra fat (on me) was marbling, to make me more delicious. She remains dubious.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:25 PM
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Divorce her.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:26 PM
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I am worried that my marbling will make me too delicious to your hogs, JE. Good thing they will be full from higher ranking Republicans.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:29 PM
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I'd just like to point out that Sarah Palin has the same problem Rudy has. From 500 feet up, it's a compelling story, but the more you learn about her--her views, her record, her personal life--the less you like her. And the more you realize she has no business being where she is.

Be honest. If we all hadn't seen Rudy crash and burn in Florida, we'd all be like "why did we go with 'mom, maverick & moose-hunter?' There was 'hero of 9/11 & guy who cleaned up New York!' He's a great attack dog! Perfect veep!"

The entire goal of the Republican party is to keep Palin repeating "mom, maverick & moose" in the minor league media as long as possible. They have to keep her away from the national media. At least until after the debates so that Biden can't effectively use a "noun, verb, 9/11" on her.

Also, she may shoot someone in the face.


Posted by: theorajones | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:30 PM
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You know who young beauty queen Palin reminds me of? Young Linda Ronstadt. I really loved about three of her songs, before you people were born.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:33 PM
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49. I used to throw a pitch that I called the "Linda Ronstadt".


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:35 PM
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They have to keep her away from the national media.

Apparently they're intending to do just that. I'm forgetting where I read it now, but the plan is to take her away for a while for "training." This actually works to the Dems' benefit: take her away, please. For lo, I am tired of this.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:35 PM
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I'm trying to figure out the features of the pitch. Short?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:38 PM
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Young Linda Ronstadt. I really loved about three of her songs,i/>

Canciones De Mi Padre is still one of my favorites. She's got pipes.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Linda-Ronstadt-Canciones-Mi-Padre/dp/B0001WTWI8


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:39 PM
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52. Oh John! "Blue Bayou". (Blew by you). Too easy.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:40 PM
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Drudge hasn't picked up the Palin adultery story yet, It seems to me it's incumbent on Unfogged to pick up the slack.

Ogged is still responsible for the site, so there's no legal risk.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:40 PM
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The Sweet Valley High books always used Linda Ronstadt as a referent for hard rocker style. I was like ten years old, and imagined her to be the equivalent of Joan Jett or Pat Benatar. When I finally saw her on some variety show, I was completely confused. I like that song "Perfidia," though.

(C'mon, I know some of you used to read SVH. Heebie? Don't let me stand here alone.)


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:40 PM
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That wasn't one of the songs I liked, actually. "You're no good", "Long long time" and "I guess it doesn't matter any more". She sang too many cover songs.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:45 PM
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I will link arms with jms in solidarity.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:46 PM
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Wheee!


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:48 PM
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Not about this, though.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:50 PM
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She pre-dated the whole "Swingers" vibe with the Nelson Riddle album.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:51 PM
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You know who young beauty queen Palin reminds me of? Young Linda Ronstadt.

But has Palin endorsed a snowplow operator?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:52 PM
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She's accused of screwing a snow machine dude.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:53 PM
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The Daily Show on choice decision.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:56 PM
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Yeah, that was a great clip.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 6:57 PM
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Linda Ronstadt had the hair that messed with our heads, in more sense than than one, for too long. I have trouble forgiving her for that. I feel badly about this, but given it, I cannot remember her songs.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 7:00 PM
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This hair?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 7:04 PM
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the hair that messed with our heads

That's a great line.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 7:14 PM
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I remember the Farah Fawcett, and the Dorothy Hammill, and the Jennifer Aniston, but I don't remember girls trying to do Ronstadt's do. Shows what I know.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 7:17 PM
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67: No, that wasn't it. It was the frizzy hair period; I associate it with the hair on the Flashdance woman. I apologize to Ronstadt, of course, for associating her with this as though it's the only way she was, but there it is. I believe Joni Mitchell also did something weird to her hair, similar to this, at some point.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 7:21 PM
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In the US Open, Dementieva has been eliminated.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 7:25 PM
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56: (C'mon, I know some of you used to read SVH. Heebie? Don't let me stand here alone.)

I think of Unfogged as more of a Babysitter's Club crowd.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 7:27 PM
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"So Sambo beat the bitch!"

This is how Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin described Barack Obama's win over Hillary Clinton to political colleagues in a restaurant a few days after Obama locked up the Democratic Party presidential nomination.

link
via

This woman is pure evil and must be destroyed.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 7:27 PM
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the Flashdance woman

Jennifer Beals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Beals


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 7:30 PM
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"So Sambo beat the bitch!"

This thread is useless without video evidence.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 7:39 PM
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56: I used to hide in my sister's book closet and read the Sweet Valley High books.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 7:49 PM
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75: You mean the article linked in 73 is useless without video evidence. I assume.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 7:50 PM
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75: Not necessarily. Much hay was made some months back about Michelle Obama's "Whitey" comment (and alleged video evidence), without it actually, you know, existing.

Stirring up such rumors would be wrong, of course. But it would feel so right....


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 7:50 PM
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In 7th grade I tried to read one but hated it. I read V.C. Andrews instead because that seemed so much more, you know, grown up.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 7:57 PM
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I think Ari's onto something, and this could get so ugly that not even Emerson's stomach will be strong enough.

Of course, that quote is not exactly authoritatively sourced. Not that I don't suspect Palin of racism. She gives off a "just folks" vibe that makes me wonder if this country is finally degenerating into the America of The Plot Against America. Actually, the way she spoke of Obama in her speech the other night made me think: "racist." Not that she made any explicitly racist utterances, of course, but there was something in the tone of derision and contempt, it was a bit unusual for one candidate to speak like that of another, and the way people in the audience laughed at "community organizer" was ugly.

But to go from one very thinly sourced story on the internet to "this woman is pure evil and must be destroyed" is a bit much, I think, and smacks a little too much of a Puritan "kill the witch" practice for the digital age.

Unless by "destroyed" you mean "defeated." I agree she must be defeated.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 7:58 PM
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People are having pangs of conscience here, Spike.

I considered writing several other things, but we've been around this block. There's enough material out there now for people to make hay with it if they choose to do so.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 7:59 PM
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I read V.C. Andrews instead

Pervert!


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:01 PM
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Some people are taking the high road:

There have been a lot of investigations in the media this past week which have tried to delve into Sarah Palin's background.

This online journal for one will not be prying into the salacious aspects of these stories.

We will not print details of the sordid, lascivious affair the Alaskan governor and Republican vice-presidential nominee had with her husband's business associate.

We will not stoop to reporting on the mysterious circumstances surrounding the birth of her fifth baby: ie, why nobody seemed to know in Alaska and why there are no medical records of the birth.

What's more, we will never descend to writing stories about Palin's well-documented years as a high-class Anchorage hooker, her known ties to the Colombian drug mob and her proven abduction by aliens.

We are above all that.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:01 PM
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My ursophiliac rumors haven't got much traction so far.

Oh, so it's your fault that I composed that song about a three-way comprised of Palin, the sealed-divorce guy, and a bear on the ride home today. I should have known it didn't just come directly from my id.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:05 PM
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and her proven abduction by aliens

Well, that would explain the unexplained pregnancy, I guess.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:05 PM
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The story wasn't terribly thinly sourced. A premise of the story was that people in Alaska are afraid to talk. It seems to be a corrupt boss-run state on the Southern pattern, more or less. There was already evidence of that.

I think that the fabled independence of Alaskans might be a bit of a myth, as it often is in the US. There are some big, dirty players up there that usually get their way.

But I concede the possibility that all of these scandals are part of some nefarious Rove plan to rope in a sympathy vote from various groups of fuckups.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:07 PM
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80: But to go from one very thinly sourced story on the internet to "this woman is pure evil and must be destroyed" is a bit much, I think

If it were just that quote, yes, it would be a bit much. But looking back on her record, and on the people she has "destroyed", or tried to destroy, I don't think its out of line. I feel like she would try to destroy me, and what I love about my country, if she could.

Yes she must be destroyed. And by that I do mean defeated, but I also mean discredited, humiliated, and exiled back to her hut in the Alaskan woods.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:08 PM
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79: In 7th grade I tried to read one but hated it. I read V.C. Andrews instead

Robust, are you younger than I thought? I thought you were late-30s. Sorry if that's wrong. The Flowers in the Attic series was big around my time, though I didn't read them myself. Oh, read one, for reference purposes. Yet I've never heard of this Sweet Valley High. So I'm surprised you even have whiskers yet, really, since either you're terribly young or I don't pay attention.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:11 PM
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I'm in my early thirties and both Flowers in the Attic and Sweet Valley High were huge with my seventh-grade cohort.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:12 PM
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In all seriousness, the most recent rumored affair may be, as someone said elsewhere, a ratfuck like the forgery that ended Rove's career. It will be allowed to play itself out until it's definitively disproven, and from then on Palin is home free and nothing else about her can be called into question.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:13 PM
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80: The woman wanted to ban books. I think an "Alaskan Project" would be a perfectly rational response.


Posted by: Gabriel | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:13 PM
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WWKRD?

(What Would Karl Rove Do?)


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:16 PM
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My ursophiliac rumors haven't got much traction so far

Your Rovian whisper campaign against the good people of Canada is about the lowest you've ever stooped.

(So: it looks like Canadian PM Stephen Harper is trying to gin up an Arctic sovereignty crisis, which allows him to don a parka and stand in front of an icebreaker in the true north strong and free, and lecture the citizens of Canada on the meaning of sovereignty, which is "not just an abstract concept," or so he explains....because he wants to call a snap election. He has a minority Tory government, which makes it difficult to pass legislation, and the main opposition party [the Liberal Party] is not as organized as it should be. I guess he figures the "our Arctic rights imperiled" theme, which plays on fears of US invasion, might win him a majority. I think he may be right about that).


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:19 PM
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I'd just like to point out that Sarah Palin has the same problem Rudy has. From 500 feet up, it's a compelling story, but the more you learn about her--her views, her record, her personal life--the less you like her. And the more you realize she has no business being where she is.

The more I think about this, the more it resonates with me.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:23 PM
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The Danes show no mercy. I pity the residents of Hans Island.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:24 PM
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Hans Island is not heavily populated, but not even a single Canadian, or any fractional part of one, may be allowed to fall into alien hands.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:26 PM
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I pity the residents of Hans Island.

Yes, all two of them. I hope their benefits package includes generous isolation pay.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:28 PM
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The Canadian Arctic is too big for the US to invade. I think maybe picking off one of the maritime provinces would be a better move. They have less icy wasteland, and more lobster.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:30 PM
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Vancouver BC is like paradise. Canadians don't like it because it's better than they feel they deserve.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:33 PM
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Alaska seems to be crawling with people with dirt about Palin, contrary to what I reported in 86.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:36 PM
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Yeah, I've got my eye on Vancouver in case McCain wins and I have to move there.

My first choice would be Annapolis Royal, but they are not so big with teh tech industry.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:36 PM
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Also, I'd like to move some place where my team doesn't give up an 8 run inning to Oakland. Grrr.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:38 PM
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One thing is that Plain's appeal is mostly to the base. There are a lot of people in the US who are not terribly moved by moose hunting. I suppose she'll be good in the hunting parts of Pennsylvania and Michigan.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:39 PM
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and exiled back to her hut in the Alaskan woods

Until about a week ago, I had no idea of the reciprocal animosity between the 49th state and the US mainland.

Re: invading a maritime province. If you can win the hearts and minds of the people of Prince Edward Island, they will greet you flowers. Or maybe with potatoes. They grow the best potatoes in Canada, something to do with the red soil.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:41 PM
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Canadians don't like it because it's better than they feel they deserve.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:43 PM
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Prince Edward Island

eekbeat and I toyed with the idea of purchasing a home in PEI that had been in her family for years, going on the market after some relatives passed on. It was like $60,000 with a fair bit of land and water access. It was also in the middle of fucking nowhere, which was sort of appealing, sort of not.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:44 PM
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100: I'd bet you can dig up dirt about any public figure, anywhere. Maybe not. Maybe there's no dirt to be found about, say, Obama.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:45 PM
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We just feel that Alaskans are hosers, too Trailer-Park-Boy-ish to be real American Americans, if you get my drift.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:45 PM
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Hmm, if we had PEI and its rich potato resources, we could maybe sell off Idaho....


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:46 PM
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109: Who would buy Idaho?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:46 PM
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105: That too.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:47 PM
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Well, the Chinese seem to have a lot of money these days. Maybe we give them Idaho, and they let us slide for a little while on our mortgages...


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:48 PM
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101: You mean Vancouver Island or Vancouver the city? Because people I know who've lived in the city have generally left as soon as they managed to do so, which sometimes took years. Of course, that may be why I know them.

I'm sure it's fine if you're making enough money, as with almost everything. As you say.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:51 PM
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I actually didn't have much opinion about Alaskans one way or another, but suddenly I have all these trolls Alaskan women on my blog being remarkably unpleasant and illogical and claiming to be Democrats.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:51 PM
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Well, the Chinese seem to have a lot of money these days.
Yes, but only dollars.


Posted by: Tiny Hermaphrodite | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:52 PM
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112: I suppose that's plausible. I was also thinking we could sell it to all the Ron Paul supporters. They seem to have a lot of money and a desire to start their own zany enclave.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:53 PM
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I read that as "zany endive". That doesn't sound like the most libertarian of vegetables.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:54 PM
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I just read an evangelical piece on the pregnant Palin daughter. Seemingly teen pregnancy doesn't bother them if there's no abortion and no birth control, and if the kids get married. ("Babies having babies" apparently isn't what they're worried about). So all those statistics showing that abstinence-only doesn't work really mean nothing to them.

"Oh -- Susy made a mistake and got pregnant? Well, that kind of thing happens. We'll certainly have a word with her! But it was about time for her to get married anyway"


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:55 PM
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i recalled reading potato joke


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:56 PM
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105: Careful.

107: You're kidding, right? You don't think that hundreds of highly paid ratfuckers have been digging through the Obamas' trash for years now? Trust me, they have.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:56 PM
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"Managing to leave the city of Vancouver" doesn't make sense based on what I've heard. No one can afford to live there. I have no idea where those hundreds of thousands of people come from.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 8:57 PM
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So Rove's game is to sucker us into sliming Palin and then let out the stops.

Of course, he would let out the stops anyway. But if he gets us to go first, he gets a little high ground.

I don't really think that Rove is all-wise and all-powerful, but you know, recent history.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:01 PM
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I managed to leave Vancover nearly twenty years ago. And I've been trying to get back ever since. But the charms of Northern California have won me over. Still, I miss the Northwest.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:02 PM
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Canadians don't like it because it's better than they feel they deserve.

God, this is so true on so many levels. Ever since Mulroney (our Reagan-wannabe Prime Minister), Canadians have been subjected to a steady stream of sermons and exhortations from would-be neocons: "We must Americanize!" "Greed is good!" "We must stop this Swedenization of Canada!" "We must compete!" But Canadians actually value mediocrity, really, and feel most comfortable when they feel that everyone is more or less on the same level (not that everyone actually is, of course). It's a fine thing to enter a competition, but don't get too competitive. And 'who do you think you are?' if you try to climb too high. Knock down the tall poppies.

This gives rise to some truly egalitarian measures, like universal health care. But it doesn't do much for our Olympic medal count, and it does create some truly odd resentments.

B's aggressive rhetoric of competitive feminism was probably too much for the staid and steady Loyalists of southwestern Ontario.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:03 PM
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116: I think that having the Ron Paul Zany Enclave in the lower 48 is a little too close for comfort. That's what Alaska is for.

On the other hand, at least they would pay us in gold.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:04 PM
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118: Well, that kind of thing happens.

I thought you were familiar with country folk. All my country cousins in New Hampshire -- more like working class, slightly mountain types of people, work at the gun factory or logging in the woods, or at the discount clothing shop, or landscaping, or as a nurse's aide -- are like this. The boys get some girl pregnant, or the girls get pregnant, and they all wind up having babies by the time they're 18 or so. This is normal. It's preferred that they get married, but they usually don't, and break up, and there's lots of disapproval over the children not having adequate parental care. But only one of my 7 cousins hasn't fathered or mothered a child by that age, I can only assume they aren't using birth control much, and that abortion is either off the table, or they don't have the wherewithal to pursue it.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:06 PM
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The thing that boggled me about Vancouver was how much shoreline there is.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:06 PM
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125: I do wonder what they might re-name it. "Randia"? "Libertia"?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:08 PM
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"We must stop this Swedenization of Canada!"

Do they really complain about Swedenization? My experience with Sweden is that its really a pretty darn nice little country.

I would certainly be thrilled if a country like Sweden took Idaho off our hands...


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:08 PM
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120: 107: You're kidding, right? You don't think that hundreds of highly paid ratfuckers have been digging through the Obamas' trash for years now?

Good grief, ari, of course I'm kidding.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:09 PM
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The country folk around here who have the bastards by and large don't lead the religious right. Though then a again, my sister in law whose mother is gossip central around here says that my mother's Pat-Robertson-following nemesis on the church council was a famous slut in high school.

Letting things happen and then taking your medicine seems to define that way of life.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:10 PM
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127: Rain, too. Keeps the shore wet.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:11 PM
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130: I'm relieved and regret having asked. Sorry about that.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:12 PM
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Yeah, even more rain than Portland and Seattle would be the down side. And Vancouver did seem a bit bland at times.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:13 PM
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The Unfoggetariat could probably buy out Annapolis Royal. And it's got a (cute) tidal hydropower plant, 20MW. I'd totally be into moving there. ("Winter cold? Hm.")


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:26 PM
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(C'mon, I know some of you used to read SVH. Heebie? Don't let me stand here alone.)

Hell yeah. They were identical down to the gold lavaliers their father had given them for their 16th birthday.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:29 PM
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Do they really complain about Swedenization?

Yes, really. Back me up here, Ari. "The Swedenization of Canada" was one of Brian Mulroney's best-loved sound-bytes.

And then there was the 60-year old Swede who could outrun a 30-year old Canadian. Some group called Participaction ran a series of ads designed to shame Canadians into feats of athleticism, and the country was galvanized into action (no, not really, but there was much talk of how the country should be galvanized into action). And then it turned out the 60-year old Swede didn't actually exist, and was just a public-service marketing invention. Much snark ever since: the '60-year old Swede' is sort of a household phrase in Canada...


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:35 PM
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Mary Catherine is right. God, I hate Swedes: so robust, so speedy, so annoying.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:36 PM
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The country folk around here who have the bastards by and large don't lead the religious right.

I object to your use of the term "bastard," of course.

That aside, yeah, my country cousins aren't religious types at all. They're deeply resentful of class differences, defensive, anti-intellectual, anti-gay (gay-bashing at times), rather racist, though they'd deny it (this is because hey, it's New Hampshire and there really are hardly any black people), but also fairly pro-woman. They loved Elizabeth Edwards, for example.

It's rather matriarchal, now that I think about it. Why this goes hand in hand with a lack of facility with family planning has continued to puzzle me. I imagine it's true that the older women (post 25, say) have figured it out.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:38 PM
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The key to running fast is a steady diet of meatballs, potatoes, and lingonberry pancakes.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:43 PM
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Alaska really is quite an interesting place if I may be earnestly pedantic for a moment. This series of studies via the University of Alaska, "Understanding Alaska", with a focus on economic issues is a good place to start. Some great charts on oil revenue and the amazing transformation it had on Alaska (Alaskans get a record $2,069 dollar each this year plus the $1,200 one-timer Palin got through). Also worth reading are Palin's monthly/bi-monthly newletters, "Putting Alaska First".

A couple of interesting facts on the Mat-Su Valley (Wasilla is a growing exurban cancer on the area—In February 2008, urban sprawl and dwindling snow resulting from climate change forced organizers of the Iditarod race to bypass Wasilla permanently. The race had its start in Wasilla from 1973 to 2002, the year when reduced snow cover forced an "temporary" change to Willow.):
1) It is one of the few agricultural areas of Alaska and due to the very long days claims the worlds largest carrot (19 lb.), rutabaga (76 lb.) and cabbage (106 lb.).
2) An early impetus to growth was an interesting New Deal project called the Matanuska Colony which relocated farmers from Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan to the extremely sparsely-populated Mat-Su valley.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:49 PM
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But Canadians actually value mediocrity, really, and feel most comfortable when they feel that everyone is more or less on the same level (not that everyone actually is, of course).

This is rather healthy and a good way to be happy.

Are a lot of people commenting on this thread now? I need Mineshaft advice.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:50 PM
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They were identical down to the gold lavaliers their father had given them for their 16th birthday.

Hooray! (Although, Elizabeth does have a tiny beauty mark on her left shoulder.)


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:52 PM
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Are a lot of people commenting on this thread now? I need Mineshaft advice.

If it rises to the level of thread-level advice seeking, I'm willing to post an Ask The Mineshaft for you. (stanleysparks at the google mail service)


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:54 PM
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If it burns PGD, you should see a doctor.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:55 PM
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I need Mineshaft advice.

It's Friday night at midnight Eastern time.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:57 PM
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If it burns PGD, you should see a doctor.

If it burns PGD, then *he* should see a doctor.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 9:59 PM
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the charms of Northern California have won me over. Still, I miss the Northwest.

Agreed, and I say this as a native Californian. I love my home state, but the Northwest is, um, nirvana.

Canadians actually value mediocrity, really, and feel most comfortable when they feel that everyone is more or less on the same level

YES! This is what drove me nuts, especially about teaching. It was actually quite hard to get students to try to push themselves, b/c no one wants to be uppity. GRR.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:01 PM
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It's Friday night at midnight Eastern time.

...and I should be making out with a beautiful woman right now, except that I broke off our first kiss right in the middle when my train arrived. As I stepped through the closing door, I heard her call out "wait, you're going?". I was on autopilot on the whole train issue. Stupid.

First date though, so probably minor issue and not threadworthy. I really like her, I just have to decide whether to make an apologetic/joking reference to this or just ignore it when asking to see her again. I'm sure it will seem like nothing tomorrow morning, but annoying tonight.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:03 PM
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It's rather matriarchal, now that I think about it.

Yeah. There's more than a few cultures, and plenty of subcultures, out there where things are formally patriarchal but in practice matriarchal. The women aren't being stupid and ignorant to reject that version of feminism which has been offered to them: they grasp quite clearly that the embrace of feminism as it has been offered to them would involve a very real loss of power in exchange for some other kind of power that may or may not be relevant to their lives as lived, and they're not convinced the gains would offset the losses. But that's a big topic, and perhaps not well suited for discussion on Unfogged. But I hear you, and I appreciate all good-faith and well-intentioned departures from orthodoxy on this score.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:04 PM
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If I were the woman, a call in the morning to say you can't stop thinking about her would be good. Even a text now saying so. Add in that you are cursing your slavery to the train schedule!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:06 PM
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an apologetic/joking reference to this

No need to overthink it too much. "I was really enjoying our time together, and then the train came. Trains have bad timing, heh, so anyway, I was thinking [doing X thing, etc. etc.]."


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:07 PM
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149: D'oh!

On the other hand, there is something to be said for leaving her wanting more.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:09 PM
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...and I should be making out with a beautiful woman right now, except that I broke off our first kiss right in the middle when my train arrived. As I stepped through the closing door, I heard her call out "wait, you're going?". I was on autopilot on the whole train issue. Stupid.

On the train home from Oakland a few weeks ago (I completely can't remember if I've already mentioned this) after a concert—I think the free jazz alto summit at the Uptown?—, at the Powell stop, an attractive young woman whom I hadn't previously noticed approached the doors, next to which I was sitting, and complimented my hair, saying that people must want to touch it all the time; I gave some idiotic reply along the lines of "actually, that's not so!", and then she said something else which I didn't quite catch but which seemed to involve a claim that I'm attractive (it was late, the light wasn't good), and then she darted out the door, which closed shortly thereafter.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:10 PM
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Di gets it right in 151, PGD. Write a short email, or text, or whatever's appropriate to your relationship. Do that now. It's a good idea.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:11 PM
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I could really go for some lingonberry pancakes.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:14 PM
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Nobody knows what those are, ben.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:21 PM
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156: The Swedes are very cunning.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:24 PM
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Christ, PGD goes out on a date, and the Unfogged commentariat demand a synoptic analysis, whilst urging him to enlarge and expand upon the theme in a dissertation.

Just call her tomorrow, PGD. If you call her again, she'll know you meant to kiss her in the first place, and the train schedule is just how life interrupts like that.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:25 PM
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Giving a synoptic analysis of something as short as a date shouldn't be hard.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:25 PM
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Christ, PGD goes out on a date, and the Unfogged commentariat demand a synoptic analysis, whilst urging him to enlarge and expand upon the theme in a dissertation.

Whaaaa? I thought PGD told an anecdote and asked for input/reassurance. Huh.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:28 PM
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I've heard what I consider to be tall tales of the reefer in the Mat-Su.

Long ago, I hitched from Anchorage to Fairbanks, thence down the Alaska Highway to Montana. I would be ready to believe just about any wild shit someone wants to tell me about Alaskans. (Wait, no, some of my best friends are Alaskans!)

I'm sure I've already told the story of my dropping in on a Russian Orthodox service in an Aleut community, and becoming the object of much mirth.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:30 PM
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Nobody knows what those are, ben.

Probably an obscure band.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:31 PM
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I'm pretty sure I've gotten high on the Alaskan bud before, but I don't actually remember.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:31 PM
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163: Ben should start a band called Lingamberry.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:33 PM
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Thanks for advice, all. I'll drop her an email tomorrow morning inviting to get together again and tossing in a little joking reference to being lame...this was a subway thing, not like the last train, so I could have stuck around but I just wasn't thinking. I don't know why I'm stupid like that. It's hard being a geek who sometimes needs to be hit on the head in order to live in the moment. When younger I had many far more egregious cases of signal-missing.

It was a good date, five hours of gradually increasing chemistry, etc. Should have kissed her earlier and not had a quarter-kiss jammed in hurriedly and confusingly at the end. First kisses are important. Remember, kids, if you're wondering whether you should kiss her, that means you should kiss her.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:34 PM
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162, 164: I hear Sarah Palin brought back the initial seed crop from her time at college in Hawaii.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:37 PM
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Better to have quarter-kissed and left than to never have kissed at all...?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:38 PM
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167: I can't tell you how distressed I am to hear that Sarah Palin is my HPU alma-mater.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:40 PM
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On the contrary. A quarter-kiss would merely ... something ... without ... something else ... good god I'm going insane.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:42 PM
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Ahem.

A mere quarter of a kiss would merely arouse one's hunger without beddin' her back down.

Sanity restored!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:46 PM
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hurriedly and confusingly at the end.

We've all done that. You'll just correct it as soon as you can, right? So that she's not confused. Then she'll know something about you and what you call your geeky ways, which is all to the good. It's not a bad start.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:49 PM
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An off-kiss is not necessarily a kiss-off.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:52 PM
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Remember, kids, if you're wondering whether you should kiss her, that means you should kiss her

This should be emailed to everyone whose friends always talk about how they always miss the signs from the laydeez.

Of course, we would all also have autopiloted onto the train too.


Posted by: disaggregated | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:53 PM
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173: And Stanley ... for the win!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:54 PM
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Awww, thanks. This place can be so nice and supportive when no one is suggesting that Sarah Palin is a slutty porn star manque.

It was actually quite hard to get students to try to push themselves, b/c no one wants to be uppity. GRR.

A society like this might be healthier than one where everyone is hectored to push themselves to excellence. It depends on the level of backstabbing and sabotage vs. voluntary cultivation of easygoing humility involved in maintaining the no-uppity rule.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 10:58 PM
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There's a lot to be said for being content with mediocrity. I wish I could manage it. Maybe I should take lessons from a Canadian.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:10 PM
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I didn't want to be the one who told you this, PGD, but it's over. You might as well drop your cell phone in the drink and take a vow of celibacy.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:15 PM
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Emerson took on Walt as his attack-dog VP? I confess I didn't see that one coming.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:18 PM
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177: essear, how old are you?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:18 PM
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Essear is 37.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:19 PM
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...this was a subway thing, not like the last train, so I could have stuck around but I just wasn't thinking. I don't know why I'm stupid like that. It's hard being a geek who sometimes needs to be hit on the head in order to live in the moment.

I think this is very sweet. And just the sort of thing you could, perhaps, share with her. But if you don't, fear not, I'll kiss you, PGD.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:19 PM
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Essear is 37.

In a row?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:21 PM
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End to end.

No one was a bit surprised.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:23 PM
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181: Right, right, whatever. I expect great things from essear.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:26 PM
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Tell her that you would have stayed on the train, but Janice Dickinson Modeling Agency was coming on at 11 and you *never* miss it.

Or that you really had to poo.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:26 PM
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What she never mentioned was that most of the 37 were attached to George Washington.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:28 PM
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There's a difference between a society that actively encourages/prefers mediocrity, which is irritating as shit, and a society that values modesty and/or averageness, but not exclusively.

In the former, one would have no W-lfs-ns. No Parkers. Where's the joy in that?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:33 PM
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Just ask my many victims.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:34 PM
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180: Old enough that my failure to do anything particularly interesting will soon start to outweigh my ability to fool people into thinking I'm talented.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:35 PM
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Oscar Pistorius ain't all that.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:38 PM
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Who the hell is Parker?

I'm off now. Suffice it to say that I find it hard to believe that Canadian society actively discourages excellence. The terms of this discussion are impoverished.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:39 PM
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Who the hell is Parker?

Spiderman.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:40 PM
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Who the hell is Parker?

See Ben's 184.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:40 PM
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193: Illiterate.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:41 PM
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Spiderman can read.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:42 PM
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I wish I had seen this during the original Palin thread.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:48 PM
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|> It just occurred to me that soccer starts today and that I will probably be stuck on the sideline with UNG's new girlfriend, who got to read my munchkin's bedtime story tonight while UNG was off somewhere doing God knows what and I didn't even get to say goodnight because nobody would answer my call. And I should probably try not to look bitter. Wah. ||


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:51 PM
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Okay, loving 197.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:53 PM
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Double Kobe!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:55 PM
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196: Through that mask? I doubt it.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:55 PM
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197: the text shouldn't have that comma.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 5-08 11:59 PM
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Yeah, but you know kids today with their crystal meth and comma splices.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 12:01 AM
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I'm not saying it should be a semicolon. There should be no punctuation there at all. It's all in the lolcats style manual (fifthe ed.).


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 12:04 AM
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In other words, LOLCATS: UR DOIN IT RONG


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 12:06 AM
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ben's a descriptive prescriptivist; he's growing soft...laydeez.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 12:08 AM
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204: what language is fifthe fifth in?


Posted by: disaggregated | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 12:25 AM
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You're going to get severely dinged for not respecting the use/mention distinction when we reckon things up during the End Times, disaggregated.

"fifthe" is actually Oakland dialect for fourth.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 12:34 AM
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no one posts drunk o n this blog anymore. gonna fix that. drunk tdurnk drunk. whatever. you guys are great. whatever. funny stuff her at tiume.s. these dues ar e talking outside my window what's that about. tina fey i s hot. what's up with hjer character on 30 rick being portrayed as being unluckyh on love.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 2:51 AM
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they're talkung about foot ball but isn it american or english footall?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 2:53 AM
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Maybe PGD should try to find someone like Mina Harker.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:03 AM
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Of course, we would all also have autopiloted onto the train too.

The first time AB & I went out (sort of a pre-date - we had only had one, professional interaction previously), it was a lecture, and afterwards she asked me if I wanted to get coffee. I said no. Because I don't drink coffee. Also, I had my eye on some post-lecture reception snackage. Fortunately for all of us, she caught up to me at the reception. And we shut that place down.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 5:34 AM
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I broke off our first kiss right in the middle when my train arrived. As I stepped through the closing door, I heard her call out "wait, you're going?".

That sounds like the kind of thing I would do, which I understand is not an auspicious thing to say.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 5:44 AM
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I could have stuck around but I just wasn't thinking.

See, you were thinking, instead of following your passional nature. And that is a good thing.

As a Wobegonian I am pro-mediocrity and am sad to have been betrayed by MC. New Zealand and Scandinavia are other fine mediocre places. It's a lot better to be at a place where everyone is above average than a place where everyone's distinctive and excellent in some predictable way.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 5:53 AM
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||

I had a sleep study done, because I've had a lot of insomnia and poor sleep. It revealed mild hypoapnea/hypopnea (not sure which, both would make sense etymologically). So I was all set to get my CPAP fitted.

Yesterday, I found out that the EKG they did when I was asleep revealed that the electrical conduction in my heart is all wonky. I am kind of nervous about that.

|>


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:13 AM
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179: I was saddened that John was too busy biking around to bars to help PGD out with his promising non-relationship.

OT (where OT means "on-topic"): Sarah Palin wants to shoot wolves from airplanes and kill all of our salmon.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:36 AM
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Listened to clips of Obama's convention speech again. He is calling for Sufi Supply-Side Economics straight from U of Chicago. Chicago? 1968. I was there. I will be there again. Newberry is calling Obama "the Prince of Tides." Indeed.

Watched Harold and Kumar Go to Whitecastle last night. A final trumpet call over a lost battlefield.


Posted by: rob folkmanis | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:50 AM
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217: I love your puppets.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:57 AM
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217: I read Newberry for 6 months because you recommended him so highly. I never could see why you thought so highly of him.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:09 AM
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I hope everything works out, BG.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:10 AM
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99: Vancouver BC is like paradise.

My ass. You know how hard it can be to find a fucking bar if you're in the wrong part of Vancouver?


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:18 AM
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Yesterday, I found out that the EKG they did when I was asleep revealed that the electrical conduction in my heart is all wonky. I am kind of nervous about that.

As Walt says, I hope it all works out.

No idea about your personal circumstances, but EKG readings can get misread. I know two people who were told their EKG showed they'd had an MI and/or heart disease who turned out to have normal hearts, the initial doctor just misread it.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:22 AM
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The incredible predictability of the "convention bounces" has now convinced me that the "fundamentals" are all that matters anyway. No more worrying about day-to-day events.

Actually, I thought McCain would get more of a bounce than he has (so far at least). The tracking polls' intervals now overlap the post-Palin-speech period, and it looks like Obama's lead is down two or three points, but it's really not that dramatic a change.

With Obama, the bounce was visible as soon as the interval was a couple of days into the convention--which is kind of surprising, since the liberal political junkies all thought the beginning of the convention was way too softball. Hillary Clinton's speech and even Obama's acceptance speech (lauded as one of the greatest in history) only moved it a little, if at all, after that.

And now, of course, Sarah Palin's speech was the big news of the Republican convention, the only one anybody is going to remember--and even that seems to have only moved the numbers a little.

I'm thinking that individual speeches don't really have a large effect on opinion, but several might have a cumulative effect if they're pushing the right way.


Posted by: Matt McIrvin | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:24 AM
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93: The new Stephen Harper ads are in heavy rotation. Extremely corny stuff (soft music, Generic White People-and-a-couple-Asians saying things like "I like that he's a family man" and "I've never been prouder to be Canadian"). But he has a good shot at winning a majority, esp. since the Liberals don't seem to know what the hell they're doing right now.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:30 AM
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221: You mean around UBC? Yes. Is the whole town like that? Who are those people? Based on what I've heard, no one can afford to live in Vancouver, but there are a million or so of them. And they don't drink?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:35 AM
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216: That's a great link. Everyone keeps talking about Michigan as a hunting state, but I think most of the population is in the southern part of the lower peninsula, and they have a sentimental rather than a predatory relationship with large mammals. I promise you that shooting wolves from airplanes is not going to play well with the suburban moms there. The wolves of Isle Royal are like Michigan's totems.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:39 AM
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225: Yeah, basically anywhere but Gastown or (if you're feeling brave) East Van. And even those places shut down at one in the morning. Being an alcoholic in Vancouver would be unconscionably hard work.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:40 AM
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(Who are those people, indeed. It's my considered opinion that Lotusland is secretly ruled by a cabal of pot-smoking Quakers, but I can't prove it. Yet.)


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:43 AM
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You know how hard it can be to find a fucking bar if you're in the wrong part of Vancouver?

Well that's why they call it "the wrong part of Vancouver."

Look, New York City's amazing, but don't expect to go to Staten Island and have a good time.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:49 AM
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My brother lives in D/elta, with an OK sports bar within walking distance, but the brew their own and live at home.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:50 AM
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"live" = "drink". Obviously.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:50 AM
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OK, 229 before I saw 227. I hadn't realized that "wrong part" meant "most of." How ghastly.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:51 AM
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Minnesota is a drunkard's paradise. Towns with 300 people have two bars.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:53 AM
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re: 233

This came up before. Google Maps lists approximately 400 pubs* within 15 minutes walk of where I used to live in Glasgow.

* and 250 liquor stores.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:58 AM
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We'll have to get down to data crunching I guess. I'm sure that there is one bar per 1000 people, but maybe not one per 500. The small town bars draw from the countryside.

There are 6 bars on the 500 block of Sinclair Lewis Avenue in Sauk Centre.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 8:09 AM
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re: 235

Where I live now is more rural. The village has about 3000 - 4000 people and only one pub in the village. Another two pubs on the river bank.

However, there are (according to google maps) about 10-12 pubs within a 15-20 minute walk.

A big city like Glasgow is always going to be much more densely populated with pubs.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 8:23 AM
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BG, maybe you'd like to consider giving birth, its stress could normalize most of the not-organic dysfunctions
PGD, running to the train deserves asking apology maybe, but not kissing or half a kiss is better than like a full blown kiss on the first date imo, isn't it weird someone you did not know before tries to kiss you, i'd try to avoid it like by all means
i couldn't get accustomed to the greeting kisses, my brazilian friend always would kiss even like just coworkers, so people gave up that on me


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 8:39 AM
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||

This video is guaranteed to make your day.

|>


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 8:47 AM
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238: You weren't kidding! Awesome.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 9:00 AM
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Being an alcoholic in Vancouver would be unconscionably hard work.

Experience says this just isn't true. Besides, cabbies will deliver to your door at 4am if you want, and the markup isn't bad.

Not that Vancouver doesn't have problems, but it's hard to beat.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 9:32 AM
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Remember, kids, if you're wondering whether you should kiss her, that means you should kiss her.

Right. You have nothing to lose but your dignity, and nobody has any dignity anyway.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 9:37 AM
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Alcoholics are famously resourceful. You can always get a bottle of rubbing alcohol or mouthwash in a drugstore.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 9:42 AM
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Remember, kids, if you're wondering whether you should kiss her, that means you should kiss her.

Asking "Can I kiss you?" can avoid both a loss to your dignity and damage to her sense of personal space. Also, you get big gentlemanly points.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 9:45 AM
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I had a good time on Staten Island once, but it was in the day, and my sister was getting married at City Hall.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 9:47 AM
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238: And they're Canadian, to boot!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 10:16 AM
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BG, maybe you'd like to consider giving birth, its stress could normalize most of the not-organic dysfunctions

read, This was not the sort of advice I was expecting. Plus, you know, kids have to be cared for after they come into the world, and that's pretty stressful.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 11:00 AM
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Listen to the doctor, BG.

Read, that was pretty extreme advice. Especially because some of the new parents here say they suffer from sleeplessness too.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 11:12 AM
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This was not the sort of advice I was expecting.

Definitely thinking outside the box, though.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 11:18 AM
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sorry, that was my awkward way to say you'll be fine coz young and most probably your heart is healthy without that much organic structural changes i meant, sleeplessness maybe is messing up with your cardiac rhythm too, so babies are contraindicated :)
unless of course it's rheumocarditis or Brugada or accessory pathways, sure listen to the doctor


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 11:22 AM
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248: rather, thinking deep inside the box.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 11:24 AM
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250: As a Penile-American I feel excluded by that comment.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 11:26 AM
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Asking "Can I kiss you?" can avoid both a loss to your dignity and damage to her sense of personal space.

If you get the response "you mean, may I kiss you", you know you're in.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 11:27 AM
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252: You left out "hell" from the end of that sentence. Sloppy, ben.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 11:29 AM
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252: If you get the response "you mean, may I kiss you", you know you're in.

Especially because that's when the cheesy music starts in the background and the fake glasses come off.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 11:31 AM
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Hell hath no limits, nor is circumscrib'd one self place. Where we are is Hell.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 11:32 AM
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I like the way read swings for the fences.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 11:43 AM
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When I was growing up our little one-street village had eight pubs.

In the meantime the place has more than tripled in size but the number of pubs is down to five.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 12:23 PM
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I bet you knew that was me.


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 12:29 PM
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The sleep doctor found it. I have a Heart A/V block which means that teh electrical signals are slow, and my heart rate is too low. It may be caused by the beta blocker I was taking for migraines which I am now tapering on the advice of my primary care doctor.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 12:32 PM
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For stress relief, the recommendations to avoid kissing at all costs and frequently give birth to children seem suboptimal.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 12:33 PM
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Breaking sports news - sumo scandal - appetite-enhancing drugs. fortunately does not involve Mongolian wrestlers.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 12:38 PM
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Oh man, BG. Best of luck.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 12:40 PM
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For stress relief, the recommendations to avoid kissing at all costs and frequently give birth to children seem suboptimal.

Avoiding the kissing does have potential for stress relief...


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 12:49 PM
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While it's true that kissing can induce stresses in some areas, I think it's still a worthwhile therapeutic technique. Indeed, as the Hellenistic physician Longus wrote, "There is no medicine for love, neither meat, nor drink, nor any charm, but only kissing and embracing, and lying naked together."

Lying naked together is a remedy of last resort; the sufferer should definitely work up to it via kissing and embracing.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 12:54 PM
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definitely work up to it via kissing and embracing

Or Greco-Roman wrestlng.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 12:57 PM
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Last night, I myself seem to have charmed an exceedingly attractive gentleman quite a bit. But unlike the Old Me, who would have spent most of the night angling for him to take me home with him, the New Me just made friends and left when I got too drunk. It is possible that I smacked his ass. I smacked someone's ass. I forget a lot that happened last night, but I do remember this new friend telling me several times that he loves me. As in, "AWB, I love you" and "I just love that we're having this conversation." Old Me would have bitten down on this bait. New Me bides my time to find out if his love is in any way brotherly.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:02 PM
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Interesting. What went into the decision to alter your MO?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:08 PM
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Dianetics?
Jesus?!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:10 PM
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Dale Carnegie?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:11 PM
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(a) I'm not any good in bed when I'm drunk.
(b) Boys who flirt openly with me often have girlfriends they're not talking about, and somehow I get blamed for trying to ruin their relationship when I put the moves on.
(c) He's my new advisee in my program.
(d) Too many witnesses.
(e) How many people in my field do I really want to be running into at conferences for the rest of my life knowing that I've slept with them?
(f) I'd totally still do him, actually, but I have made several drunken sexual decisions that only consider my own future happiness, in that I usually feel totally cool about it afterwards, but the other party it turns out has Never Ever Done Anything Like That Before and feels bad.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:15 PM
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I wonder if one of the common themes in your stories, AWB, is that (for some reason), people find their inhibitions are lowered around you. And then you suffer the backlash as they try to reconcile the different parts of themself, to themself.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:23 PM
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themself … themself

Like stakes through my heart, heebie van geebie.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:24 PM
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272: That's heebie's version of "Standpipeself", ben.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:26 PM
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271 is so something my new awesome therapist would say. Very interesting, and probably quite likely.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:26 PM
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But grammar be damned, isn't that the clearest way to express it?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:26 PM
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No, the clearest way would be "themselves". You are talking about people.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:29 PM
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But then it sounds like the parts of themselves are getting scrambled between different people.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:30 PM
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I guess I could have said, "A person finds that..." But then I sound like a nerd.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:31 PM
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If PGD's still reading, my take is that disappearing halfway through the first kiss is not a problem at all, but the next time you see her I'd make sure you're unambiguously affectionate -- not the moment for coy reserve. The potential bad outcome I could see would be: she feels weird about your having run off like that, and is reserved and nervous; you're embarrassed about having done something geeky and dopey, and so you're reserved and nervous, and the two of you end up each thinking the other's pissed off or doesn't like them. Ramping up your body language to extra warm when you see her next should be all you need to avoid that. (And of course, who's to say the awkwardness would happen even without care to avoid it? I tend to assume that any situation that could be awkward will be, but that's largely because any situation I have firsthand knowledge of is one that I'm participating in.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:33 PM
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259: Good luck with getting off the beta blocker. I felt terrible for two weeks while tapering off mine but considerably better after that.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:38 PM
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But then it sounds like the parts of themselves are getting scrambled between different people.

No, it doesn't; context ensures that, not to mention the reflexivity of "themselves". If you really wanted to avoid "a person finds ..." you could have said "… people find their inhibitions are lowered around you. And then you suffer the backlash as each one tries to reconcile the different parts of himself, to himself" (or "him or herself" if you want to be open-minded).


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:46 PM
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But then I wouldn't get all this attention from you, Ben.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:48 PM
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While I think that LizardBreath is mostly right in 279, I would like to quibble with something she said: you're embarrassed about having done something geeky and dopey that echoes sentiments expressed above.

I do not see what is so geeky or dopey about what happened. It sounds very sweet, in fact. As LizardBreath counsels, do not act awkward on your next meeting, but rather warm and confident. You have a reasonable belief that she is interested in you. That's excellent. Feel happy.


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:51 PM
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There's a difference between negative and positive attention, heebie.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:57 PM
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Cuidado, heebie. I think ben's gonna try to kiss you.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 1:59 PM
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Oh, I'm sure he'll ask permission first.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 2:00 PM
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The difference between positive and negative attention: let me show you it.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 2:08 PM
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Heebie was right. Let Heebie be Heebie.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 2:15 PM
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Next time you see her, say, "Let's pick up where we left off..."


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 2:34 PM
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"I was standing like this, and you were like this, but we were near the train station, ok that one will do, let's just pretend it's the right one, but you were wearing pants, not a skirt, so let's just duck into this store up here, what do you mean that's not necessary, do you have a change of clothes with you? Anyway you can't change in public! you go take care of that stuff and I'll knock a few back, I think I was a little tipsy. Meet back here in ten, ok?"


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 2:37 PM
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should have bought something to eat in the morning
this is great


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 2:43 PM
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291: It is.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 2:57 PM
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Ego-filled threadjack:

Just finished Week 3 of the goddam 100 Pushups idiot thing. Oddly, looking ahead, Week 4 doesn't involve any more pushups than Week 3, so I should be able to hit my final wall on at least week 5.

Maybe I'll start over from the beginning then and try doing them nose-to-ground -- while I believe I'm getting my arms to right angles, it's hard to police myself, so I suspect that I may be cheating my way through these.

Anyone else still messing around with this nonsense?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 2:58 PM
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A bunch of people at work are doing it in support of someone whose wedding is in two weeks. Except that the bride to be now says she won't fit in her dress because her pecs got too big.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 3:08 PM
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I don't believe her. A dress that tight around your upper chest, you wouldn't be able to move your arms. I'd believe you could ruin the fit of a tight bodice with heavy lats work, but not in any reasonable timeframe by doing pushups.

(It's possible I'm just not visualizing the dress right, but it doesn't sound plausible to me.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 3:12 PM
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should have bought something to eat in the morning

Like some delicious pozole! CORN.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 3:21 PM
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I just made delicious borscht.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 3:22 PM
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291 is indeed great.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 3:32 PM
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Like some delicious pozole! CORN.

Eating your way through your Rancho Gordo purchases?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 3:33 PM
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No, I just got the RG posole [sic] today (also some black beans) which I will prepare later in the week.

I got the soup at a mexican restaurant.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 3:36 PM
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So far the RG beans I've enjoyed the most have been the "Eye of the Goat"/"Ojo de Cabra" variety, which are roughly in the pinto vein. This week we'll be trying the Christmas limas.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 3:44 PM
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(c) He's my new advisee in my program.

STOP. Run, do not walk, towards the nearest exit. The only thing worse than finding yourself in the middle of a category 5 clusterfuck that's destroying your career is the knowledge that you did this to yourself. Seriously. If you need sex so badly that his seems like a good idea, become a prostitute or hire one. This is a disaster in the making. Anyone who tells you different is either an idiot or your enemy.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:15 PM
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302: Whoa there, tog! Calm down a bit. It's quite possible you have a very different idea of how this works from what it means in my program. Also,

If you need sex so badly that his seems like a good idea, become a prostitute or hire one.

Seriously? STFU.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:18 PM
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I assume that by "advisee in my program" you mean that he's a fledgling first-year grad student whom you've been asked to take under your wing and show the ropes, not that you actually have any authority over him.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:20 PM
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(or something of that sort)


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:21 PM
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A comment like 302 would never have happened before Sarah Palin. Just sayin'.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:22 PM
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304 is correct. I'm a sixth-year student whose previous experiences as student adviser have mostly involved sharing gossip, introducing them around, and making sure they get invited to all the cool parties. Their faculty advisers are the ones who have a formal relationship.

While I'm glad I'm not in a department that's more loosey-goosey than mine, I am extremely grateful that I'm not in one so uptight that a little inter-student drunken fraternizing leads to a "category 5 clusterfuck."


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:24 PM
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If grad students can't sleep with each other, who else will they sleep with?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:27 PM
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If grad students can't sleep with each other, who else will they sleep with them?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:28 PM
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||

I find it odd that the fact that the US government announced on Friday that they're going to nationalize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac hasn't made a bigger splash. As of next week, the government is going to explicitly own or guarantee half of all residential mortgages in the US. Apparently the Bush administration are the real socialists.

|>


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:28 PM
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304 and 307 are reminding me that I was supposed to be a student adviser for someone and failed miserably. I hope they found a replacement.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:36 PM
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We have a student advisership program in my dept, but we call it something different (& lamer); my own assigned adviser abandoned me, and I have strenuously avoided advising anyone.

Of course, nothing delights me more than talking to undergraduates about their classes and whatnot.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:42 PM
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Remember, kids, if you're wondering whether you should kiss her, that means you should kiss her.


Posted by: Margarita | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:42 PM
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It's the whatnot that truly delights.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:43 PM
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311:Nobody knows what it's gonna cost us yet, Walt. They can spread the hurt over decades.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:44 PM
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Oh no, turns out the person I was supposed to have mentored (that was the word, not "advised") is working with the batshit crazy guy. Oops. I did warn them that I was out of town over 50% of the time, but they made me a mentor anyway.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:45 PM
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It's the whatnot that truly delights.

Indeed, if by "whatnot" you mean philosophy!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:49 PM
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There has got to be a story behind 302.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:50 PM
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My own adviser never introduced him- or herself to me, and I felt the loss deeply. I have tried to be a good adviser for my own advisees. One of the many things I like about my new advisee is that he thought it would be hilarious to buy me drinks on the sly but then, in front of people, demand cash so he could ride the mechanical bull. Very cute.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:50 PM
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I am willing to advise anyone here for free drinks.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 4:57 PM
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310

"I find it odd that the fact that the US government announced on Friday that they're going to nationalize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac hasn't made a bigger splash. ..."

They didn't exactly announce it, they just leaked their plans. Which are not exactly a surprise.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 5:11 PM
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319: Okay, that is cute. I was all set to agree with togolosh (in a toned down sort of way and not the prostitute part), but now I'm sort of charmed by the guy and am leaning toward, "See where it goes."

(Of course, my propensity to ignore initial instincts and instead be charmed has not always proved the soundest approach... )


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 5:12 PM
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303: OK, I interpreted "advisee" as being a more serious sort of relationship than it apparently is. My default assumption was that it implies a fairly significant power differential, which carries with it a whole bunch of potential awfulness. Be careful, and good luck

318: No shit.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 5:21 PM
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Huh. My grad program didn't have this mentoring program, though there was a tradition of existing grad students being asked to show prospectives around town and campus, introduce people, answer questions, bring them to a few lectures, perhaps parties, perhaps have them actually stay with you (!).


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 5:28 PM
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perhaps have them actually stay with you (!)

To me this doesn't seem remarkable in the least—it costs money to put people, or oneself, up in a hotel.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 5:48 PM
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324 sounds pretty normal to me; every grad school I applied to had such programs for prospectives. One Northern California school which shall remain nameless had me staying with some complete assholes, which left me with a really bad impression of the place. I guess that sort of thing doesn't happen often, though.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 5:52 PM
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Oh, I know it's perfectly sensible. Just not viable for me at the time to do so.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 5:53 PM
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bortsht, pozole sound cozy
i couldn't go out to buy things to eat, have just rice with some furikake tonight
so very heavy rain and there were sounds of the fire squad going somewhere, strange
maybe they save people from floodings too
i recalled an old joke 'saving drowning people is the business of the drowning people themselves'


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:08 PM
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What's furikake?


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:14 PM
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Delicious savory sprinkles for flavoring rice!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:16 PM
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furikake


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:16 PM
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I should get different kinds of vegetarian furikake to have at the office. With that and my electric kettle and some green tea, I could always have an (o)chazuke lunch in my office any time I had some leftover rice to bring from home. (But actually I think I might just get some packets with the tea granules right in the packet, to be more lazy, though there are fewer vegetarian options that way.) I like when it has the little round crackers in it.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:24 PM
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I gave up on the pushups because they were activating my neck-shoulder-forearm pain in a big way that the experts weren't familiar with.

But I was getting kinda big there for a moment.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:27 PM
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313: You know the other recent google-based xkcd -- the one where he googles for values of x girls y cups? A friend saw that last week, and had the reaction, "2 girls 1 cup seems to be the highest value -- wonder what's that about?"

He called me crying.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:29 PM
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the furikake i use is maybe several months old, mostly goma, so is the rice, cooking rice is like that, last resort for me before starving
i'm thinking about adding some sour cream into it to make it more edible, but maybe i shouldn't


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:31 PM
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Sour cream would be more Mongol than Japanese, right?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:34 PM
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He called me crying.

I told my bookpartner about the 2 girls thing a while back; he'd seen some reference to it on Family Guy, I think, and had been using this an example of why and how that show sucked. It gradually dawned on me that he had no idea what it actually referred to. He googled a bit later and was speechless.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:37 PM
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right, i like sour cream with my dad's homemade bread and blueberries, the best things to eat in rainy day
that and my mom's milk tea with some sheep tail fat floating in it


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:38 PM
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Read, I've said this before, but you seem at home in Mongol, Russian, and Japanese culture, and are working on American. Few people have that range, and you should write a book.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:41 PM
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thank you, i know it's not just a joke you made
but to write a book, that's too grand for me and i know my limits very well
hopefully i'll learn the language well enough to translate some of my favorite books into my language when i retire, that's my grandest aspiration


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:49 PM
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340: better for your friends at Unfogged would be to translate some of your favorite writings in Mongol into English.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 6:59 PM
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Thanks, read. This makes me want to experiment with more rice-condiment-mixtures. Most of mine are of the homemade and liquid variety.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:02 PM
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This is Witt's roundabout way of admitting to being a home distiller.

Send me some, Witt!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:19 PM
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Sorry to disappoint you, Ben. I have a friend who brews her own beer; does that count? (She was on quite a streak for a while, but the last batch exploded. Oops.)

In other news, I am about to have a kitchen again! Now if I can just dig up my cookbooks and buy a car, I'll be able to cook actual meals again. What a concept.

(I'm 3-for-3 on awesome two-person Unfogged meetups, but when I get my house in order I fully intend to make it available for a slightly larger gathering, a la dinner party or cooking event. Where's Belle? Didn't she threaten to come do some baking here on the East Coast at one point?)


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:24 PM
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The postal service probably isn't too keen on transporting moonshine anyway, I guess.

How long have you been without a kitchen?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 6-08 7:30 PM
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Old enough that my failure to do anything particularly interesting will soon start to outweigh my ability to fool people into thinking I'm talented.

LB memorably described this as the transition between "has such promise" to "had such promise".


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 09- 7-08 7:15 AM
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What's furikake?

It's bukake, when practiced among furries.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09- 7-08 12:45 PM
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any "grad student" not in an MD or hard science PHD program should simply be disregarded, if not locked down: and that's "a fortiori" for the private vichy school hustlers


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 09- 7-08 1:09 PM
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From my perspective it looks like what was terrible for me to say three days ago is now accepted truth, or at least grist for the humor mill.

I get the "it's not what you say it is the way you say it" aspect of things but should that really matter so much if this is the blog of "clarity and sweet reason?"

Delicious irony does have a somewhat sweet taste but it lacks the clarity most aficianados prefer.


Posted by: Tripp the voice of sweet reason | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 9:25 AM
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This article should be mandatory reading for every Democtratic consultant.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f1984d88-7cd5-11dd-8d59-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:14 PM
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From my perspective it looks like

There's your first problem...


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:15 PM
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350: All that I see on that page is: "This article is not the first to note the cultural contradiction in American liberalism, but just now the point bears restating. The election may turn on it." Is FT subscription only?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:19 PM
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Free registration. He basically says if the coastal elites wold shows some respect to those in flyover country they may actually win an election. Caring about "the people" while actually showing contempt, not so much.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:24 PM
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Unfortunately, it does not appear that the media will cease to depict liberals as showing more contempt for "the people" than conservatives do any time soon. As part of the media, Clive Crook could help solve this problem, but instead he compounds it.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:26 PM
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353: gee, that's innovative. Not like I haven't heard that from every fucking overeducated jackass writing about politics over the past two decades.

I mean for fuck's sake. What's the matter with Kansas? YOU.

Also, Tassled Loafered Leech, you linked to an article in Financial Times on the subject of connecting with the common people. Just, uh, just go back and read that last sentence again.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:28 PM
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while actually showing contempt, not so much.

So far as I can see, this is more of a GOP talking point than common in actual practice by actual `American liberals'. And after all, with the people you describe, the GOP has perfected simultaneously fucking them over and convincing them to vote GOP. So while I haven't read the article, it doesn't sound like you've isolated the problem. It's a problem of perception, not one of reality --- and if the GOP is very good at one thing, it's managing perceptions. For that matter, they're pretty damned impressive at decoupling them from reality.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:29 PM
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Obama's quote about clinging to God and Guns didn't help, either.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:29 PM
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Obama's quote about clinging to God and Guns didn't help, either.

That was a mistake. And perhaps it didn't help, just standing there on its own. The way the media spun it can't have helped either though. Was this an admirable sentiment badly expressed? Or the condescention of a `coastal elite'?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:32 PM
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Well, Sifu, keep up the good work then. I'm sure that Obama will will this in a cakewalk. Pay no attention to the hockey mom who is kicking his ass. It'll pass. (Actually, it will).


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:33 PM
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Sorry to be grumpy, but really, is there a more completely played argument?

Also, the world is flat.

Also, we must stop Saddam before he launches his nukes.

Also, the great Moral Majority secretly supports the Vietnam war.

I mean, enough already. TLL, your family has a summer getaway on the Atlantic coast (not judging, I'm with you, man); you are therefore in absolutely no position to judge. Meanwhile, we have many (proud, committed) Democrats commenting on this site who actually live in flyover country. Shall we ask them about the subject?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:33 PM
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Also remind me what part of fucking Alaska is flyover country? Flying over on the way to where, Singapore?

Also also also, the "hockey mom" isn't kicking anybody's ass by any definition, unless you count one outlier tracking poll as somehow meaning anything whatsoever which, if you do, you're dumber than any dumbass redneck who was ever scared of a butterfly shrimp at Red Lobster.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:35 PM
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If a British hack thinks has not yet been played, far be it from me to stop his need to fill column inches on the subject.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:36 PM
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Is the hockey mom really "kicking his ass"? I get all my news here, so that's a serious question.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:36 PM
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363: no.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:37 PM
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Yeah, apparently I'd have known that if I'd hit refresh and read 361.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:38 PM
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362: dude I mean this is more played than Creed. Seriously, this is the stupidest, lamest argument any pointless waste of political speech has made over the past like three decades. And you know what's even fucking stupider? Half the people making the argument have been motherfucking Democratic consultants!

Does the name "Mudcat" Saunders mean anything to you? No? Maybe that's because you're the kind of out of touch liberal elite who loses elections like, oh, say John Edwards.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:40 PM
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363: Too soon to know for sure. Check back in mid November. Really, though, it's too soon to say. But all signs point to both parties getting convention bounces and my dear friend Josh Marshall, among others, positively freaking out.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:41 PM
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Have I mentioned that it's too soon to say for sure? Because it is.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:42 PM
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Can I just say, again, how much I fucking hate this stupid, reductionist, "blue state/red state" stereotyping? You know what Sarah Palin did? Shored up McCain's support among people who were going to vote for him anyhow.

I mean, really. Is it honestly condescending to point out that the religious right is unlikely to suddenly become a fucking liberal party because DLC hacks did just enough falling over themselves to suck their dicks? Really?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:47 PM
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369 contains the other salient point; that to whatever degree people exist who have a problem with `the coastal elite' these people are a write off anyway.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:49 PM
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I think it's just fine if you'd like to say it again. I can probably even get you Thomas Frank's e-mail, if that would help. David Brooks might be a tougher nut to crack, at least if you want the account he actually uses.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:50 PM
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370: like, for real.

"Well, I'd be in favor of helpin' them poor minorities with education and such-like if'n you'd only deign to eat this steak Toby Keith shit on."


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:51 PM
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when I get my house in order I fully intend to make it available for a slightly larger gathering, a la dinner party or cooking event.

Since nobody appears to want to come to Richmond for Unfogged III, Witt's house for Unfogged III!!!!


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:54 PM
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369, 370: Isn't part of the thinking, though, that maybe these people wouldn't have voted for Obama, but they might have stayed home?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 2:57 PM
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374: right, but you know how much that has to do with Democrats "condescending" to people in "flyover country"? El zippo. It has everything to do with McCain caving to the wackjob wing of his own party, as he has caved to everyone ever previously.

Once the GOP decided to mobilize evangelical Christians as a power center, and especially once Rove developed the "fluff the base" strategy, the die was pretty well cast. It will likely end up destroying the GOP; hopefully it won't destroy the country at the same time.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 3:00 PM
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This article should be mandatory reading for every Democtratic consultant.

Oh hey! Fuck a load of Clive Crook. He manages to erode the value of what the FT does well because the aura of stupidity from his fucking op-eds penetrate the two pages of the daily Arts section to leave a whiff of excrement on the otherwise interesting Lex column.

For those who can't read the article, here's an excerpt that sums up the more-Broder-than-Broder position he holds (it was in the paper today):

The [U.S.] has conservative media (Fox News, talk radio) as well as liberal media (most of the rest). Curiously, whereas the conservative media knows they are conservative, much of the liberal media believe themselves to be neutral.
Their constant support for Democratic views has nothing to do with bias, in their minds, but reflects the fact that Democrats just happen to be right about everything.

Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 3:02 PM
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the [U.S.] has conservative media (Fox News, talk radio) as well as liberal media (most of the rest).

Curiously, only half of that sentence is true.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 3:04 PM
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the great Moral Majority secretly supports the Vietnam war

The Silent Majority secretly supports the Vietnam War; the Moral Majority openly supports the Culture War. Get your Bolsheviks straight you decadent coastal elite.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 3:06 PM
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375.1 Point taken. It does intrigue me, though, what voters this condescension narrative actually influences. I have an aunt who will get sucked into that stuff pretty easily, but my dad reminded me that I was probably 3 the last time my aunt actually bothered to vote, so who really cares? Is this type of narrative to make voters leaning weakly left more likely to stay home?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 3:08 PM
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Curiously, only half of that sentence is true.

Consider the source: Half true is better than par.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 3:17 PM
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what voters this condescension narrative actually influences.

I'm not convinced it actually influences anyone, it's just a tribal marker.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 3:18 PM
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379: My gut instinct is that such voters are more often voting against the Democrat because they hear snippets such as when McCain said "[Obama]'s plan will force small businesses to cut jobs, reduce wages, and force families into a government-run health care system where a bureaucrat stands between you and your doctor" without it being immediately followed by the commentator (or giant flashing text on the screen, that would also be good) saying "Please note, this is utterly false."

Scare tactics are about disrespect when the GOP gets a good quote or a columnist runs out of ideas and needs to talk about something vague and unciteable. There are plenty of other arrows in the anti-Democratic quiver to make those voters come out.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 3:18 PM
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Maybe the point is just to reassure conservative voters that it's okay that their candidate isn't quite as bright.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 3:24 PM
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Maybe the point is just to reassure conservative voters that it's okay that their candidate isn't quite as bright.

Yeah, Di. No condescension there. One of the issues of a democracy is that the majority is usually not as bright as the elite. Good thing we live in a republic.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 4:06 PM
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Democrats just happen to be right about everything

And?

To the extent it's not actually true, one might expect to hear fact-based responses. Which we don't.

it's just a tribal marker

Which influences people voting tribally.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 4:08 PM
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384: There is something unusual in the US electorates distrust of too much demonstrated competence for the top jobs.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 4:10 PM
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I do have to admit that Obama's selection of David Cross as his VP have made us particularly vulnerable to these attacks this year.


Posted by: lemmy caution | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 4:10 PM
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Which influences people voting tribally.

Right, but for the same reason cannot be effectively countered directly.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 4:11 PM
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I'm married to a hockey mom. And damn tired of being condescended to by people who think either their hockey skill, or their understanding of the wishes of the Almighty, are superior.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 4:12 PM
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Conservative voters are stupid people who won't vote for someone smarter than them. And there's a whole industry of hacks like Frum and Gerson and Brooks and Cook who push their buttons and keep them stupid.

I'm starting to agree with Sifu. This is an old, old, old game and the way to win it is to change the game. Obama seems to be doing it. Sucking up to morons isn't the way to go. Listening to Frum and Gerson and Brooks and Cook (Crook?) is the worst thing we could do. You really win by defeating people, not by begging them to like you. The Republican cor constituency isn't who we want to talk to.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 4:13 PM
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386 is right, I think.

A populist touch goes down well in lots of places, but an actual distrust of competence is fairly sui generis.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 4:16 PM
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You really win by defeating people, not by begging them to like you.

I'm sorry, this makes no sense. If you mean defeating the candidate who is running, ok. But telling people they are stupid does not sound like a winning strategy.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 4:17 PM
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But telling people they are stupid does not sound like a winning strategy.

OBAMA: 'AMERICAN PEOPLE AREN'T STUPID'


Posted by: lemmy caution | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 4:39 PM
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But telling people they are stupid does not sound like a winning strategy.

It's a perfectly fine strategy if the people you're calling stupid are both manifestly stupid/incompetent and also a significant minority of the electorate, if, in other words, you're not trying to win their votes. So, you'd need to know: 1) How big is the stupid tribe? 2) How big is the non-stupid tribe? 3) How ready is the non-stupid tribe to acknowledge the stupid tribe's stupidity and connect said stupidity to the problems facing the country today?

Having said all of the above, I don't think we have clear enough answers to 2 or 3 to know if this is a winning strategy or not. But certainly the right has been calling the left traitorous and effete for years; there have been almost no attempts to win votes from the left. And the strategy, until very recently, has been a winner.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 4:41 PM
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I really deny the whole premise of what the voters are like, what the Democrats are like, and what Democrats should do. (Note that this advice all comes from Republicans.) Democrats need to find a way to approach the various constituencies, but Crook et al aren't showing us what it is. They're just reinforcing a Republican insinuations and spin.

A lot of those self-pitying people are people the Republicans can write off. I just looked at the map and there are 15 states (South, Great Plains, and West) that can be written off right now. (I like the 50 state strategy down ticket, but not for the Presidency). There's also 30% of the electorate that can be written off. After that, you look to see who's left and how to approach them. Responding to the "condescension" allegation is not the way.

Note that I'm not a Democratic strategist or spokesman, and by and large the Democrats don't listen to me at all or care a bit what I think. I'm just Some Guy on the Internet.

So fuck the whiners.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 4:44 PM
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And to go on with that, if things go well the crazified 30% and the 15 stupid states will be crying bitter tears the day after the election.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 4:47 PM
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How many electoral votes in the stupid 15, JE? Along those lines, if I were a nefarious GOP operative, I would try to steal California's electoral college votes, not some puny also- rans like Ohio or Florida. Too ambitious? Perhaps, but not to say they didn't try.
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2007/10/23/california_electoral_vote_initiative_revived.html


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 4:55 PM
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John Emerson may be Some Guy on the Internet (or even a drunk old fart in Minnesota) but he's one of the most astute Some Guy on the Internets I've encountered. People who say "Democrats need to connect to ordinary voters" are concern trolling. Better advice, and more sincere, advice would be about connecting with specific constituencies, not any mythical ordinary person.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 4:57 PM
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The problem, to the extent that there is a problem (is it really too soon to tell?), is not the GOP's base. As noted above, those people aren't going to vote Dem no matter what any Dem happens to say or do. The problem is that some percentage (anyone have a recent figure? it's greater 5 percent, I'm pretty sure, and possibly greater than 10 percent?) of traditionally or reliably Democratic voters are telling pollsters they're not going to vote Dem this November. Maybe they'll sit it out, maybe they'll vote McCain/Palin. Not women! Or not women especially and in particular, I mean. Blue collar voters, white working class voters, "ethnic Catholic" voters, etc, etc, both male and female (and possibly more male than female, btw).

It's my suspicion that some of these voters are receptive to Brooks-style (and yes, deeply dishonest and self-serving) 'liberals sneer at you' punditry. Which may or not matter, depending, I guess, on how badly the Dems need their votes.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 5:00 PM
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No electoral votes the Democrats need or can possibly get. SC AL MS TN KY LA AR OK KS NB ID WY UT AZ AK. Forget them. No very large states among them.

Republican attempts to change the rules, discourage people from voting, doctor the voting machines, etc. are a different topic. I'm talking about electoral strategy


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 5:10 PM
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Basically, though, the way to defeat a cheesy Republican appeal isn't to respond to it but to jump a stronger Democratic appeal ahead of it. Democrats need to gain the initiative, promote themselves, and attack the Republicans. The concern troll message doesn't help with that; it distracts.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 5:12 PM
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Democrats need to gain the initiative, promote themselves, and attack the Republicans

Say what you will about Palin's qualifications for high office, but she has certainly read this page in your playbook, JE. And pace, Sifu, an 11% bounce seems significant to me. I don't think it will last, but I think underestimating her, or trying to turn her into Quayle II won't work. The Republican's are attacking Obama's strength, trying to usurp the mantle of "change". It might work with our "stupid" voters.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 5:21 PM
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||

Ack. So there's this guy on the Terry Gross Show talking in very earnest and very radical terms about the need to get away from the oil economy, in particular, to restructure market and tax regulations to promote wind and solar. And I'm thinking, damn, this guy is right on. Who is it? Amory Lovins? Tom Friedman. I've been duped by the Mustache of Understanding.

|>


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 5:22 PM
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Amory Lovins? Tom Friedman

Well, Rob, with a good toupe, some contacts and a better wardrobe they could pass for brothers. Maybe the Moustache is the basis of the Understanding, after all.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 5:26 PM
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I have to admit that I don't know what to do when a pregnant teenage daughter and rumors of adultery turn out to be a big plus, and when you can have a tremendous success by misrepresenting almost everything your candidate has ever done. I don't think that Brooks et al can help us with that, not that they want to. Damn good thing I'm not a Democratic strategist.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 5:34 PM
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Yeah, Di. No condescension there. One of the issues of a democracy is that the majority is usually not as bright as the elite. Good thing we live in a republic.

See, I really just don't get this. If I am reading you correctly, being above average smart make you "elite" and elitists are bad and condescending, ergo it's bad to be above average smart. The fact is, some people are in fact smarter than other people and I, personally, would really quite like like the smartest possible people to be leading this country (preferably sharing my values, such that they use their superpowers for good as I define it).

To me, this whole bit about accusing people of being condescending elitists really just smacks of defensive projection. Eg., Obama comes off as really sharp, he seems pretty popular, so his opponents have to try to turn that strength into a weakness. Now he's not sharp, he's condescending. Just so any of you who might be feeling a wee bit insecure or threatened start thinking he's looking down on your intellectual inferiority. You bunch of intellectual inferiors*.

* To be clear, not calling TLL, to whose comment I am directly responding, (or anyone else for that matter) an intellectual inferior. This is just me very best effort to emulate the interior monologue of someone intellectually projecting in an effort to denigrate an opponent by undermining his virtues.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 5:53 PM
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me very best effort

That was intentional, of course. Just so you all would know I was down with the average folks.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 5:54 PM
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399: The problem is that some percentage (anyone have a recent figure? it's greater 5 percent, I'm pretty sure, and possibly greater than 10 percent?) of traditionally or reliably Democratic voters are telling pollsters they're not going to vote Dem this November.

Indeed. I don't know what to do about that, assuming that it's either racially/xenophobically motivated, or a function of the perception that Obama lacks experience (or both), except to mobilize and register new voters in key states. GOTV. Which Obama is attempting to do.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 5:57 PM
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Further to 406, this whole accusing the other guy of not really liking you is just classic bully/batterer behavior. Stick with me, baby, that guy doesn't really like you. Those dems all just think you are not good enough because you are so stupid. But it's okay with us that you are stupid, we accept you just the way you are.

Well, hey, America. You are not stupid. And the Republicans just keep telling you that you are too stupid to think about the issues and that the dems look down on you and all the rest of that crap because as long as they can keep you feeling inadequate they can continue to control you.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 6:05 PM
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Just so you all would know I was down with the average folks.leprechauns.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 6:07 PM
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Don't you be goin' and deprecatin' the wee Irish-American demographic, Mr. Wrongshore!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 6:14 PM
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The problem is that some percentage (anyone have a recent figure? it's greater 5 percent, I'm pretty sure, and possibly greater than 10 percent?) of traditionally or reliably Democratic voters are telling pollsters they're not going to vote Dem this November.

I think we probably need state and region information before we can decide whether this matters.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 6:19 PM
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Ain't you a wee bit old to be believin' in leprechauns, Di?

(I'm gonna need Apo to link to the original joke...)


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 6:22 PM
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There are a variety of ways to define an elite, Oh Worshiped One, but by any stretch it can't include a majority of the population. It is a fine line our elected representative must walk, to be sure. First among equals is what they strive for, to varying degrees of success. the key is not getting the majority to support you, but the support of the majority of voters on that particular day. Sarahcudda won her mayorality with something like seven hundred votes out of one thousand cast. How hard could that be?

I know I'm not telling you anything to say that direct democracy troubled the Founders as well. Just one reason why we have a bicameral legislature.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 6:35 PM
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If the Republicans won the election because Democrats supposedly disrespected Palin, God that would be funny.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 6:59 PM
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Oh Worshiped One

See? No need to engage with any of the actual ideas put forth if you can just dismiss your opponent as an arrogant schmuck.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 9:10 PM
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One should use "O" and not "Oh" when engaging in apostrophe.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 9:13 PM
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I can imagine an opportunity arising to remind the tribe that McCain isn't one of them, has never respected them, and isn't going to give them a single thing they want except having one of their people as a figurehead.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 09- 8-08 9:19 PM
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This I like: Ed Rendell calls out McCain for using "the big lie strategy" re: Obama's tax plans.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:26 AM
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I'm gonna need Apo to link to the original joke...


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:33 AM
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Yes, "O fuck...." and "Oh fuck...." mean different things even though they're phonetically the same.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:40 AM
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