Re: Like A Virgin

1

I was all prepared with my voter registration card and photo ID but they didn't ask for anything at all.

I find it disturbing that you need to show more ID to buy a beer in America than you do to vote.


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:00 PM
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Why's that?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:07 PM
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I'm an alcoholic too, GB, but I'm not disturbed about that. Voter fraud is a Republican hoax. They no evidence of systematic fraud, and they barely even have anecdoal evidence.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:07 PM
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They don't compare signatures when you buy beer.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:10 PM
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It's hard to have evidence of fraud caused by a failure to identify who's voting. After the votes are in, who's to say who was the real deal and who was faking it?


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:11 PM
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(Yes, credit cards, blah blah. The signature isn't needed for the alcohol.)


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:11 PM
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Which is to say, that when I voted early absentee at the registrar of voters in the California recall, they compared my signature with the one they had on file. I don't remember showing photo ID.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:12 PM
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I got carded once for buying SuperGlue. She scrutinized the birthdate on my driver's license and everything.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:13 PM
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Voter fraud is a Republican hoax

Has Iraq taught you nothing, JE? It's all about potential to do evil, not actual evidence of evil action or intent.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:13 PM
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And then I was sent to an electronic machine, which had so many candidates for Governor I had to scroll through eight screens to see them all.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:14 PM
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GB if you can provide any evidence at all that it's a real problem I'll be a little more sympathetic.

Teenagers really, really want beer. To vote? Not so much. Politicians want votes, but luckily you've got an oppositional system where people can challenge signatures.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:18 PM
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I mean, shit, you have to show your ID more times to buy beer than you do to rent an apartment, some places.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:19 PM
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Actually, if this is the voting thread, can I ask what other people are seeing in terms of well-trained or competent voter-registration efforts? I'm asking because there are numerous reasons to re-register, including change of name and change of address. But every time I pass the inexperienced and/or paid-by-piecework voter-reg people, they are only hawking the "Are you registered? You should be registered!" line.

It's a total missed opportunity, espeically since I know the groups doing the registering all make Xeroxes of the forms before they mail them in, so they can call later for GOTV efforts.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:19 PM
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GB, there should be some evidence of a problem before people get excited. There are various checks on the registered voter lists, and if people were walking in and pretending to be someone else, we'd find out about it when the real person showed up to vote.

What's not imaginary is a decades-long Republican voter-discouragement effort which tries (by legal and illegal methods) to make it as hard as possible for people to vote, on the correct theory that low turnout benefits Republicans.

One significant part of the Republican Party, represented in the media by George Will, believe that one-man one-vote is a bad idea. They'd be happy to bring back poll taxes and literacy tests. As on questions of race, they rarely express their true opinions because arouse ridicule and opposition. The whole "PC" whine.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:30 PM
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the "Are you registered? You should be registered!" line.

That's all I've ever encountered. Slightly tangentially, I'm not sure what the making of the Xeroxes has to do with things.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:30 PM
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I don't think anybody in my neighborhood is eligible to vote, which only goes to show how easy it is to buy or rent houses.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:31 PM
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In the future voter identification will be made by retinal scan in the voting booth. Of course, if you happen to be a terrorist you will be vaporized immediately via an overhead laser. Don't worry, your vote will still count. I'm sure they will have fixed the bugs in the "no fly" list by then.


Posted by: John Naisbitt | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:32 PM
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I'm not sure what the making of the Xeroxes has to do with things.

Well, the reason that a nonprofits and/or campaigns get those volunteers out on the street to register people is that they think that more people being able to participate in the political process is a good thing. (Obviously this tends to benefit particular candidates, parties, and positions.)

At the same time, they recognize that registering is only the first step. So before they send the registration forms to the county courthouse (or wherever), they make a Xerox. Then the nonprofit/campaign has a copy of the person's name, address, party affiliation, and often phone number.

The group then uses that information to call/visit/encourage the person to actually get out and vote on Election Day.

So my point is, if you're a campaign or whatever that is paying to put people out on the street (and they are paying, even if it's just to supervise volunteers), why wouldn't you try to get the most bang for your buck by reminding them that *re*-registering people whose registrations are outdated or inaccurate is *just as valuable* as first-time registration?

Sorry, long lecture. You'll all be relieved to hear I'm about to leave my Internet connection for the night.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:37 PM
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I don't get Witt's complaint. I see these people on the street all the time, asking people "Are you registered to vote?" and then if the people say yes, they say "At your current address?" And then if the people say no, they give them a change of address form.


Posted by: Satan Mayo | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:38 PM
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19 is great. I wishI saw that. I don't -- I've only seen one person (and we've had voter-reg on the streets here since January at least) who was calling out or asking follow-up questions like that.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:41 PM
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What is your address again, bob?


Posted by: John P. Torres | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:42 PM
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Voter fraud is a Republican hoax. They no evidence of systematic fraud, and they barely even have anecdoal evidence.

And yet Sunday afternoon I was party to a discussion two of the participants in which thought that it was a real problem and that while requiring ID wasn't an ideal solution, it was something, and we should be getting on the ball about a better solution. None of them could provide any evidence that it was a pressing problem, but they were still convinced that action needed to be taken.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:42 PM
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Voter fraud is a Republican hoax.

It truly is. Fear of voter fraud stems at least in part, I believe, from the common and widespread GOP anxiety that somewhere out there somebody who's not one of us might be getting away with something. But also, and more importantly, the more people who vote, the worse it goes for Republicans, which is why the GOP likes to suppress the vote.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:53 PM
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22: were these, by any chance, grad students?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:57 PM
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Actually, Sifu, they were not! I don't really know who they were, in fact.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:58 PM
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Practically, although I suspect more voter fraud than people imagine takes place, I also think most of it is by ballot-stuffing and other wholesale methods (coughDieboldcough). More efficient than fake-ID methods where you need a warm body per maybe 1-3 votes, especially today when political parties have much less reach at the neighborhood level.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 6:58 PM
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Voter fraud s/b election fraud, I suppose.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 7:00 PM
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I don't really know who they were, in fact.

Just random guys in the steam room.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 7:00 PM
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I would totally say that I'm registered to vote (because it's true). If I weren't, I would take the form and mail it in myself.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 7:09 PM
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I nearly got unregistered (made inactive) by failing to fill in a city of Boston census thing. It's tricky, because I've got 3 roommates and 2 of us got the household survey thing, so who's supposed to send it in. And why do they need to know what I do for a living?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 7:11 PM
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I got carded once for buying SuperGlue. She scrutinized the birthdate on my driver's license and everything.

This is hilarious.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 7:12 PM
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And why do they need to know what I do for a living?


I wouldn't ask too many questions, girly, or after we're done with bob's neighbors we will come pay you a visit.


Posted by: John P. Torres | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 7:18 PM
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Hey McManus, I hope you're not going to get hit by a hurricane or anything like that.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 7:20 PM
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Bring your registration cards! I think I've mentioned it here before (probably 'round about election day), but I was a victim of Republican vote-suppression tactics in 2004. They told me I wasn't registered to vote, but I totally had. So I had to fill out a "provisional ballot", which I suspect they just threw in the garbage. Bastards.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 7:28 PM
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35

I never got the whole voter registration thing. I just show up and vote. Go small state USA.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 7:29 PM
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It makes me happy to know that I can buy all the glue I want.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 7:30 PM
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33:Dallas area. Gunther(?) went a little north, Ike gonna go way south.

The weather ain't so bad at all right now, the dogs got two walks and I did my weights outside. But it has been a hot Dallas summer and hurricane remnants are a little welcome relief.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 7:42 PM
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The obvious solution to voter fraud is purple ink on the fingers.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 7:44 PM
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||

I just heard the underwriting credits for Fresh Air, and some guy said, "NPR brought to you by the Fox network." Then the voice proceeded to talk about fictional programs, but it was still funny.

|>


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 7:53 PM
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I never got the whole voter registration thing.

Yeah, me neither. I come from one of those nanny states where the government comes around and registers you. Which makes people lazy and complacent, of course, because they don't have to make an effort to leave their homes to get themselves on a list, which must mean that they will be all too inclined to forget the price we must all pay for liberty. It does seem to ensure a significantly higher voter turnout, though.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 7:56 PM
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That heat must be hard on the dogs. (37)


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:00 PM
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Dogs have no feelings, MC.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:02 PM
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43

It's an unfeeling person who would believe that, John.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:05 PM
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44

John you dog.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:10 PM
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45

It's just a fact. Dogs are smelly, fleabitten eating and pooping machines who have learned to feign affection. They'd be in the uncanny valley of emotional fakery except that the need for affection is so enormous. Their implausible loyalties as grotesquely exaggerated as the eyes and boobs of anime girls.

No, I don't believe that. Dogs are weird, though.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:18 PM
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46

They wouldn't be in the uncanny valley unless they looked like people. Omit needless term-broadening!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:20 PM
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47

You may say what you wish about Canadians and our friends the bears, sir, but dogs are strictly off limits.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:20 PM
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48

Obviously you have never seen the seminal "Dogs Playing Poker".


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:21 PM
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See, in the early days of pornography people masturbated to stick figures. In our advanced age we forget that. Dogs are distant prototypes of the emotion-bots of the future.

Bots most of us will never live to see, alas.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:23 PM
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49: On the veldt, a dog was a man's best friend, and all else was left to the future of the imagination.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:29 PM
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It's definitely annoying around here when the deadline for registering to vote for a primary is Aug. 27 and there's a vast surge of moving house (often across district or town boundaries) on Sep. 1. I was once sure that there was an explicit provision that in that case you can vote at your old address, but I can't find it. So potential cross-town minor voting fraud, here I come!


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:33 PM
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52

I'll need to see your ID, Mr. Williams.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:38 PM
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He's unauthorized, Nathan. He's just trying to intimidate you.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:42 PM
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Throw Heebie in jail. She's interfering with an Apo.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:45 PM
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If I wanted to intimidate Nathan, I'd do it like Stalin.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:50 PM
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You mean, you would show him your ID.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:54 PM
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I got carded once for buying SuperGlue. She scrutinized the birthdate on my driver's license and everything.

This definitely tops the time I got carded for spray paint.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:56 PM
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Apo's link alerted me to the crochet bikini trend. All those grannies working their arthritic finger to the bone for the sake of their hott, ungrateful granddaughters. An outrage, really.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:56 PM
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To be fair, it was extra-huffable spray paint.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:57 PM
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Though perhaps the once-hott grannies were getting a bit of vicarious pleasure by keeping their family line in the game.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 8:59 PM
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60: Kin altruism.


Posted by: Caitiff | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:00 PM
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Blume or Sifu has posted their huffing supplies on the photo page. NTTAWWT.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:02 PM
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Hey guys, I just bought the domain name Bridge2Nowhere.com for two years. If any of you can do something usefully Palin-bashing with this, you can have it. (The version with 'to' was already taken. But 2 may even be better.)


Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:05 PM
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I once got carded buying a cigarette lighter.

In re: John's 58, my wife just got the creepiest email from some dude who saw her knitting blog and felt compelled to mention that he thought she looked hot and that, "with respect, [he] want[s] to do various things with [her]." He went on to say that he found her site because "because [he] like[s] women in knitwear."


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:11 PM
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63 -- I'm imagining huge print: John McCain is a Liar. Smaller print: For details, click here. Then you can either write your own content, or rip off Kleiman.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:14 PM
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Let's make a thread out of 63!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:15 PM
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64: yeah but you look, like, eight. I'd card you buying Pokemon cards.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:15 PM
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I once got carded buying a cigarette lighter.

Me too! I couldn't understand what the guy was saying, either, until he repeated himself about three times. I guess I just couldn't believe he was actually asking to see my ID. (I do not look, like, eight, or even twelve.)


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:19 PM
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Oooh a thread! This is a great honor!

Let me submit that the Sarah Palin Nowhere tshirt picture should play a role.


Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:19 PM
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"With respect."


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:20 PM
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Sure! Shoot me an e-mail with it and I'll put it up. My e-mail's under my name in this comment.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:21 PM
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Oh, and when I say Sarah Palin Nowhere tshirt picture I mean the picture I have here, not some hypothetical picture in which Sarah Palin's tshirt is nowhere.


Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:21 PM
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I find it disturbing that you need to show more ID to buy a beer in America than you do to vote.

Perhaps a solution would be to give out a free beer to everyone who shows up to vote. Then, they have to card you for the beer. Of course, this would entail lowering the voting age to 18 or raising it to 21.

I once got carded buying a cigarette lighter.

Matches for me. In fairness, I think the guy was just being lazy and didn't want to go in the back to get 'em.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:23 PM
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Emerson may have a point regarding dogs.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:28 PM
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75

Why did that video make me laugh so hard?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:35 PM
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Because you are deeply disturbed. So am I, apparently.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:39 PM
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55: Like Stalin.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:42 PM
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74: Dear Dan Savage: I somehow accidentally contrived for my dog to hump me, and once it started, I just... couldn't get away! How'd that happen?


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:50 PM
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DS, You're just taking the piss, and just trying to stir up trouble in what would otherwise be a quite moving thread about the love of a dog for a man (or vice versa, I guess, not that I'd know anything about that, of course).


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:56 PM
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Hey, I'm not doubting the love. Not in the least.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 9:58 PM
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80: You're from Montréal, or some such place, aren't you? Yeah, I'd know that tone anywhere. Anywhere, darling, anywhere.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 10:15 PM
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Oh, why don't you two compatriots get a room. And a dog bear.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 9-08 10:17 PM
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83

Charges of voter fraud are infinitely overblown. As LB has pointed out in the past, it's much easier to just buy people's votes than to stage a massive fraud. The system in NC is very good and doesn't require anyone to show their ID when they vote; it requires their ID when they register or the first time they vote if they register by mail and that's it. On election day, by law, a voter must state their name and address "in a clear voice," which is an adorable little curlicue. If your polling place reminder card gets returned to the BoE that triggers another check the next time you show up. I find it hard to believe I am in this position, but I favor the small-government approach of the board of elections staying out of everyone's billfold on election day.

What I find funny is how easy it is to spot a Republican when one works the polls on an election day. Not all Republicans do this but it is safe to assume that someone is a Republican if they walk in with a sour expression and a driver's license they indignantly push into the face of the nearest poll worker even as that worker responds - as we are trained and required by law to do - by asking them to state their name and address aloud.

Needless to say, requiring state-issued ID would have disfranchised my grandmother who threw away her license, never renewed it and never again drove after a particularly harrowing experience in a blizzard in the '40s. It would have disfranchised my other grandmother who never had a license or any state-issued ID in her 80+ years and, seriously, never drove a car. They were of different parties, though, so it wouldn't have moved the ball for either party. It simply would have dispirited both of them.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 09-10-08 7:48 AM
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coughDieboldcough

This is a public service announcement - Diebold is now called Premier. My Mom would ask why they changed their name if they weren't ashamed of themselves. End of public service announcement.

John, even if dogs are simply feigning affection they are really good at it and you know what, feigned affection when it is done well is nothing to sneeze at. I'm just saying. In case anyone wants to feign a little affection my way. I won't sneeze at it.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 09-10-08 8:02 AM
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Yeah, but if you starve them they'll eventually eat you.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-10-08 8:05 AM
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Christ, did John McCain really say in his acceptance speech "The stars are aligned, change will come." We are so fucked. I never thought I'd say this, but I'm going to end up regretting every Cthulhu joke I've ever made.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09-10-08 8:37 AM
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I agree with 45.1

73 - I heard from a reliable source who was there at the time that one of the opposition tactics to encourage turnout during the Orange Revolution in Ukraine was to hand out free vodka in the streets.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 09-10-08 9:49 AM
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83: Charges of voter fraud are infinitely overblown.

There is abundant evidence that the Diebold (now Premier) machines were designed to be discreetly hackable in ways that -- totally incidentally of course -- enable easy medium- to large-scale vote fraud. Claiming such charges are "infinitely overblown" is both uninformed and, worse, complacent. These machines will play a role in this election. Democrats will have to aggressively confront their use if they plan on winning. Have no illusions about this.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09-10-08 12:06 PM
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Yes, DS, I agree. I mean charges of conventional voter fraud by individuals walking into precincts in states that do not require ID and lying to steal another individual's vote.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 09-10-08 1:00 PM
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DS: As said above, "voter fraud" is not the same as "election fraud". Voter fraud is a Republican hoax which, among other things, distracts attention from election fraud. "Voter fraud" is the claim that a lot of fake votes are being cast, mostly by Democrats.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-10-08 1:18 PM
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Oh, cool, sorry.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09-10-08 1:19 PM
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Hey, I'm all for sounding the trumpets re: paperless balloting.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 09-10-08 3:04 PM
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Hmm, it's probably pretty difficult to tell accurately how much voter fraud is out there. Even though I agree it is much less significant than the type involving ballot-stuffing and Diebold/Premier.

My recently deceased mother just received a valid voter id card in the mail, telling her where to find her polling booth. Since I was appointed her co-executor by the court, I know for a fact that the state was notified 10 months ago of her passing. She and I also look alike (although the state she lives in is about 2000 miles away from me, so there will be no sketchy business!).

This state, one of the new swing states, also sent me my own separate valid voter ID in my name, as a bonus, even though I have not been resident there for over 8 years. Generous!

NB: I do not practice or condone voter fraud.
Just noting state bureaucratic practices.


Posted by: xylph | Link to this comment | 09-10-08 4:50 PM
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It's certainly difficult to tell accurately how much voter fraud there is, but if you claim that there's enough of it to justify taking steps which will make it harder for eligible voters to vote, and that's what the Republicans are doing, you really have a responsibility to show that there's a real and not just a potential problem.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-10-08 5:13 PM
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