Re: I wanna post the debate thread!

1

Is a title without a body really a title? Ponder that.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 5:10 PM
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That's a violation of municipal code 305.2(b), heebie. I'm afraid I'm going to have to ticket you for 2 dozen chocolate chip cookies.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 5:11 PM
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Why does it always have to be about what you want, Heebie?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 5:18 PM
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pre-debate comment. I met this older guy on the T today who was a wingnut from Virginia with his younger business associate. He was kind of goofy, and was being gallant about protecting a college age student with her model.

Her friend was talking about h how polite Canadians would be if they bumped into you, and I asked where?

"Edmonton, Alberta," said the friend. I said, "because I'd be surprised if that were the case in Toronto. Toronto used to be like that, but not now. Ottowa maybe."

"No," said the friend, "Toronto's more like Boston."

Older dude says, "I like Ottowa better. Quebec city is cool."

Me: "I don't know Quebec city, but I like Montreal."

Friend, "Vancouver's pretty cool."

Older dude: "They have good apples, but the people there are flaky."

Me: "I don't really like west coast apples. California ones aren't great. NY state ones are delicious."

Older dude: "Have you never had a Virginia apple..."

Me: "I probably have. I lived in DC for a year and a half."

Older Dude: "My sympathies."

Me: "Oh, I liked it."

Older Dude: "DC used to be all right, back when Wilbur Mills was running around with Fanne Fox. See, you've got to know your history. You've got to know which politicians were running around with which strippers."

Blah, blah

I mentioned something about a Boston lawyer I knew who was active on the committee that got Reagan to run in 76 and 80 and was offered the job of solicitor general, though I didn't mention the last part.

Young associate (who's 28 but looks 19): "I gather, you're politically involved."

Me: "Well somewhat, but I'm a Democrat now."

Young Associate: "So, you're voting for Obama. WHY?"

Girl with model and her friend both say, "You do realize that this is Boston."

Older Dude: "Oh Obama is all namby pamby, change, change."

Two other bystanders start laughing.

Me: "I don't really expect a lot of change. I'm just against McCain."

BLAH BLAH.

Me: "Well, I'm kind of converned about foreign policy, and I think that McCain would be more likely to go to war with Iran.

Older Dude (who had previously explained that he worked in financial services) says, "I used to work in defense-related industries [names various companies], and we have to bomb Iran."

Then they came to their stop.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 5:26 PM
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I'm afraid I'm going to have to ticket you for 2 dozen chocolate chip cookies.

I'm betting you won't show up to the kitchen to contest it.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 5:29 PM
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Why does it always have to be about what you want, Heebie?

It's one of my favorite private interest groups to pander to.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 5:31 PM
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I'm extremely lazy and hate television. So can someone tell me when the debate starts? In 10 minutes, or 1:10?


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 5:42 PM
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Her friend was talking about h how polite Canadians would be if they bumped into you, and I asked where?

Definitely true of Ottawa: if you bump into someone, that person will say "Oh, sorry." Also true of Toronto, more or less. I really notice it now, with my point of comparison being NYC.

However, New Yorkers, while not exactly polite, are not at all the hostile and indifferent beings that they are often made out to be. I've witnesses scenes on the subway where someone is lost, and all kinds of people chime in with advice, and if anything, there's an excess of assistance.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 5:46 PM
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witnesses s/b witnessed


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 5:47 PM
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9:00.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 5:50 PM
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(Eastern)


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 5:51 PM
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8: The explanation I've heard is that New Yorkers spend so much time in close proximity to strangers that their conventions have evolved to suit, and they don't waste time with lots of formalities because the amount appropriate in a small town would be exhausting in NYC. Similarly, they have a lower tolerance for breaking norms and will be more vocal about chiding offenders.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 5:54 PM
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That's 8:00 central, you coastal elitist.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 5:54 PM
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8: I didn't find people in Toronto as polite as I expected them to be. J's family seemed to think that Toronto was more polite when it was a smaller place and Montreal was where you went to have fun, but now that Toronto is more cosmopolitan, it's less scrupulously polite.

English people always say sorry -even in London, middle-class people do. In Toronto I was stomped on by a couple of people, and nobody other than me said "Sorry."


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 5:56 PM
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Chicago's the politest city I've ever visited in the States, and Istanbul's easily the friendliest city in the world.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:01 PM
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12: Not an uncommon development cross-culturally.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:04 PM
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4 is really a freaky exchange, BG.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:08 PM
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Happy belated birthday, teo!


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:08 PM
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You too, BG!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:09 PM
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Me: "I don't really like west coast apples. California ones aren't great."

After saying this, you whipped out your crack pipe, right?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:22 PM
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13: Central time is the bestest time.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:22 PM
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20: One might consider that someone living on, say, the east coast might not have access to the full goodness of west coast apples, and vice versa.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:23 PM
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Ain't no apple like a west coast apple, 'cause a west coast apple don't stop.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:26 PM
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I'll never be able to enjoy the strawberries in the mid-Atlantic now that I've had ones from the pacific southwest. It's a sad state of affairs, but there it is.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:27 PM
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My son travelling through Chicgo said that both black and white people were friendly, but white people warned him about black people. Much less standoffish than coastal cities, though.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:28 PM
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Motown apples back again. Doing a little east coast swing. Green to red, what's going down? Not too hard, not too soft.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:28 PM
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southwest s/b northwest


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:28 PM
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Which Biden will show up, Good Joe or Gaffe Joe?
http://www.236.com/news/2008/09/24/if_they_imd_good_joe_biden_and_1_9110.php


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:28 PM
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20: One might consider that someone living on, say, the east coast might not have access to the full goodness of west coast apples, and vice versa.

That's why I snipped the part praising New York apples. I have no experience with them and didn't want to suggest that one would have to be the proverbial smoker of crack to find them fabulously great.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:29 PM
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Are there really proverbs about smoking crack?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:31 PM
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"Crackwhore at night, sailor's delight".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:32 PM
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Food in the PNW is basically great. Sorry to ruin your local strawberries for you, parsi. Washington apples are every bit as good as New York apples; my opinion on this has nothing to do with the fact that my wife's cousin's family are organic apple tycoons up there.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:33 PM
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"Crackwhore at day, shuffle away."


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:36 PM
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I recommended a particular variety of apple to oudemia a while ago, but it has been overtaken in my affections by Ashmead's Kernel. Yum yum.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:38 PM
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32: I know it is. You just don't want to become overly enamored of a region's food, such that that of another region becomes unpalatable. That's .. a little self-defeating.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:41 PM
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Does anyone have a URL for watching this train wreck online?


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:55 PM
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Never mind--found one.


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:56 PM
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So, this is going to be a cringe-fest, isn't it? What with Palin relying on broad generalities when she can't come up with detail, and Biden trying to rein himself in so he doesn't commit another of his trademark gaffes...

Okay, here we go.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:57 PM
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Can I call you Joe?


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:58 PM
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"Can I call you Joe?" ought to defuse the first name scandal.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:58 PM
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Worst economic policies we've ever had? Is that true? A lot of bad stuff happened in the nineteenth century.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:59 PM
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OK, here we go. Palin's first pivot from "what do you think about the bailout" to "soccer moms on the economy!"


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:59 PM
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She said betcha! Drink!


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 6:59 PM
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The barometer is going to be resounding.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:00 PM
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McCain brought people together to help deal with the crisis? Did he really?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:00 PM
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Obsessive politics aside? Sweet. Thanks John McCain!


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:01 PM
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She said Maverick! Drink!


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:02 PM
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WINK!!!


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:02 PM
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Maverick over under at 10?

Over.


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:02 PM
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the fundamental is the workforce!


Posted by: incoherent essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:02 PM
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Under.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:03 PM
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She said Joe Sixpack! Drink!


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:04 PM
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Joe Sixpack! My best friend!


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:04 PM
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Joe Sixpack, hockey moms, never again. Trifecta!


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:04 PM
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Joe Sixpack Hockey Moms?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:04 PM
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What the hell is a "team of mavericks"? That sounds like a problem teamwork-wise.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:04 PM
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Personal responsibility will save us all!


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:05 PM
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I don't know how long I can take this, but just to start: why is she not quite making eye contact with the camera? It's freaking me out. It's like I'm looking at her through a 1-way mirror, and so she's looking towards me, but not at me. Freaky.

I'm kind of let down she didn't blame the CRA. Wimp.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:05 PM
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We may need an over/under on "heckuva."


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:06 PM
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Darn right!


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:06 PM
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And "darn right."


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:06 PM
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Or "darn right".


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:06 PM
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Drinking on "darn right" is going to be bad idea, isn't it?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:06 PM
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Boy, we've really got some dog whistles here.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:07 PM
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Who mentioned tax increases?


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:07 PM
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"darn right!"

OK, that did it. I can't possibly stand it.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:07 PM
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41: Yeah, being crucified on a cross of gold must have sucked.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:07 PM
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Come on, Biden, hit the McCain tax on health care from employers issue.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:08 PM
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Her hair bang that keeps moving every time she blinks is distracting.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:08 PM
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66 was only so egregiously pwned because I first turned off the TV and went across the hall to where the computer is.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:08 PM
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I might not answer the questions you're asking, but it's because I'm a mavrick! Just like John McCain!


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:08 PM
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58: She seems a bit rattled.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:09 PM
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Wow.

She just declared, "I'm not going to answer the questions, I'm going to say whatever I want."


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:09 PM
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The cost of pwning people is not sitting in front of the TV.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:10 PM
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73: She sure did. It's mavericky!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:10 PM
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68: Ifill gets there first.


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:10 PM
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Biden's eyes look weird. Like he got a crooked face lift or something.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:11 PM
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Joe Biden's smile kind of creeps me out.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:11 PM
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Tax evasion: also patriotic!


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:12 PM
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Boy, she sure does have a heckuva sparkly flag pin, darn right.


Posted by: Mrs. TJ | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:12 PM
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I've no fucking idea why I stayed up to watch this totally irrelevant sideshow in an election I can't even vote in, but I just wanted to mention that West Coast crack is much better than East Coast crack, although neither of them can hold a candle to the really wonderful artisanal meth labs around Austin.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:12 PM
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Hating on the government is patriotic!


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:12 PM
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Patriotic is saying, government, you're the problem. Sweet. Super-patriotic is what, blowing up federal buildings?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:13 PM
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Erase those artificial lines between states! They're so ugly when you're flying over the borders.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:13 PM
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D^2!


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:14 PM
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68 fulfilled.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:14 PM
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Yay! Biden is doing what I asked in #68.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:14 PM
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Stab her with the pen, Joe!


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:14 PM
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Yes! I was hoping he'd mention the $12K figure.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:15 PM
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I like the moderator.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:15 PM
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I'm really enjoying getting my debate coverage from you people.

The funny thing is that, with anyone but Palin, I might suspect that I'd be missing content and/or context. Instead, I'm pretty sure comments like 71 and 83 are verbatim.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:15 PM
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Bridge to Nowhere got a titter out of the audience.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:16 PM
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Argh! Gwen just asked Jim's horrible little"What won't you be able to afford,given the financial crisis" question. Break free from the Texan homunculus, Gwen!


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:16 PM
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characterizzl...characterized


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:16 PM
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Biden's on his best behavior. I'm not sure if I like that. C'mon Joe, check that hockey mom against the boards!


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:17 PM
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"bless their hearts"

Wow.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:17 PM
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Oh really...she told them...."nooo..uh...noo.."

that's tough.


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:18 PM
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93- Good response to doge it, though- "We won't be able to give corporations the tax cuts John McCain wants to give."


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:18 PM
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Bless their hearts? Jesus fucking Christ.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:18 PM
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"... in my own area of expertise, and that's energy".


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:18 PM
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pdf-pwned.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:18 PM
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91.2: Pretty close.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:18 PM
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Biden's wiping the stage with her. Go, Joe.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:20 PM
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Wow, tie her to the bankruptcy bill! Cool!


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:20 PM
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I know I'm in a minority here (a minority of one, probably), but: I don't think she's stupid.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:20 PM
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"I won't go back on my promises, because I haven't promised anything, biyotch!"


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:21 PM
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Oh noes! More rearing heads!


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:21 PM
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See, the part of the exchange that I found remarkable was that he was vocally advocating for a war with Iran.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:21 PM
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We need to be appreciative of John McCain?

"Rear that head of abuse"?

Gah, fuck me.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:21 PM
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I have no idea who's winning. Most people don't care whether Palin answers the actual question as long as she remains coposed and cute.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:21 PM
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Am I the only one who thinks Palin is the female form of GWB?


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:21 PM
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"rear that head of abuse"! She has a thing about rearing heads, doesn't she?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:21 PM
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"On main st, affecting wall st."
Hold it- take that last one, reverse it, put it back.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:21 PM
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putting politics aside, even putting the campaign aside...

Awesome. Remind me of another McCain fuck-up!


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:22 PM
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"Rear that head of abuse!"

Ouch. It hurts to hear her stammer out these muddled metaphors.


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:22 PM
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She doesn't seem dumb to me, just really small-towny. (I lived a long time in a small town, I would know.) And she sounds like she's from Wisconsin.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:22 PM
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106:Who said stupid? But she sounds nervous and underprepared. Biden's clear and coherent.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:22 PM
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112: No, you are not.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:22 PM
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god, they're really both of them much worse than their respective President candidates aren't they?

By the way, *watch the crawler*. If your channel doesn't have the worm, switch to one which does. So far, Biden is winning this one on the crawler; I have not seen the "notch of death" (the sudden drop as soon as someone starts talking) yet like I did with McCain, but Biden regularly gets both lines up into the top quartile and Palin hardly ever does.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:23 PM
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Joe Biden was weak when the bankruptcy stuff came up. Chapter 7 and 13...it's complicated. Well, it's in no small part his fault.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:23 PM
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Am I the only one who thinks Palin is the female form of GWB?

No.

That last answer was her first real descent into word salad. Let's see if we get more!


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:23 PM
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That's no so, because I say so.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:23 PM
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Joe just needs to run out the clock. He just needs to not lose, not draw attention away from Obama. He's doiing fine.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:23 PM
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111: Yeah, nothing yet colorful to anyone except for maybe bloggers.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:23 PM
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This debate is retarded.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:25 PM
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I heard she was the expert on this!!


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:25 PM
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"I'm not one to attribute every activity of man to the changes in the climate" -- what? The causality of that is all back-asswards.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:25 PM
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This is boring. I want blood on the floor.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:25 PM
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by the way, this financial crisis has now ticked approximately three days into being actually irritating. I can stand doing 18 hour days for an indefinite period, and have in the past, but not when every single minute of those days is so bloody emotionally intense. I suspect that serious mistakes are being made all over the market from simple fatigue and tetchiness.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:25 PM
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117: Yeah, she's small-towny. Not cosmopolitan, not well-educated. But she's not at all stupid. And no way is Biden wiping the stage. He seems tense, impatient.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:25 PM
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So the new climate-change-denial line is: "humans are only partly to blame!"


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:26 PM
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"I'm not one to argue that every action of man is due to climate change." Heh.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:26 PM
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She just said "I'm not one to attribute every activity of man to the change in the climate" again. She must have memorized the line and gotten it wrong to have made the same blunder exactly the same like that twice.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:26 PM
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"Other countries that don't care about the climate as much as we do." OK, not false, but there are other countries that care a lot more as well.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:26 PM
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135

She's losing it- she had packaged answers for the first half hour, but now she's rambling in her talking points.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:26 PM
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And..........there it is.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:26 PM
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Who has the instant reaction crawler? I've checked a bunch...


Posted by: Sam-I-am | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:26 PM
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Where is everyone?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:26 PM
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On dsquared's advice, I switched over to CNN. Apparently, uncommitted male voters in Ohio don't believe climate change is man-made.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:27 PM
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What's this crawler thing dsquared is talking about?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:27 PM
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137: CNN has the crawler.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:28 PM
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138: Site is clogging up.

I think Joe is doing better about wonkish stuff than Obama was, but he's not as compelling a speaker.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:28 PM
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"Drill baby drill"?! I think Palin is trying to do a Greatest Hits medley.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:28 PM
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I want to see that global warming answer of Palin's side by side with what she told Couric. I think it was verbatim.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:28 PM
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I don't want to be distracted from mocking moose-massacre Barbie, but 129 is right on the money.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:28 PM
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And no way is Biden wiping the stage.

Totally disagree.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:29 PM
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And if we rape the continental shelf, they'll have to pay for their own rape kit!


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:29 PM
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129: According to my theory of finance, your job is to leap on the people making mistakes and tear them to pieces.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:29 PM
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"The chant is: 'drill, baby, drill!'", she says proudly. Wow.

"Clean, green natural gas"? The hell?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:29 PM
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Senator O'Biden!


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:29 PM
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Who is she talking to?

I didn't say that. Can't she turn and talk to Biden. It's creepy.


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:29 PM
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129: Shall we try and get an argument going for you? Nothing like it for releasing pent up irritation.

By the way, Budweiser sucks, because it's inauthentic.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:29 PM
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oooh interesting. big, noticeable notch up in Biden's CNN crawler as the camera cut to a shot that included Palin smirking. Do you know what, I don't think people like that woman as much as she thinks people do?


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:29 PM
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I am so upset I want to bake challah again so that I can punch down dough.

I fucking don't want to hear more about Alaska! Answer the fucking question! On the other hand, fail spectacularly so that you don't benefit from the soft bigotry of low expectations.


Posted by: belle lettre | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:30 PM
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The little dance when she said "drill baby drill" and the eye-pop when she said "clean GREEN natural gas" were creepy.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:31 PM
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She said Nucular! Drink!


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:31 PM
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Yay, no hesitation on the gay-marriage question. Nice and forceful, Joe.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:31 PM
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I agree w/ 110.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:31 PM
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Hm, Palin really is equivocating on gay rights issues. Sign of the times!


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:33 PM
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Isn't "granting same-sex benefits to couples" kind of a weird phrasing? What kind of benefits can my wife and I expect?


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:33 PM
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149: fuck off, I'm currently sitting on a nice little profit, which might or might not be wiped out overnight, depending on a set of complicated negotiations which I have no insight into, no analytic edge on, and certainly should not have put any money into, long or short, except I was tired and tetchy and suddenly got a rush of testosterone.


Posted by: derauqsd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:33 PM
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Oh, damn. "Do not support gay marriage". There goes the forthrightness points, Joe.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:33 PM
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157. Not so much.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:33 PM
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160: Birth control no longer necessary?


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:34 PM
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We are down to pre-surge levels? Wha?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:35 PM
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Ramble ramble ramble ramble ramble...


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:35 PM
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crawler sez nobody gives a fuck about Iraq.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:35 PM
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157: Yeah, except for his subsequent declaration of non-support for gay marriage. Damn it, Joe.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:35 PM
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Palin's not doing all that bad. Better than I had expected.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:36 PM
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129 is true. Sorry, dsquared. I hope it gets better for ya soon, but people really do keep wanting explanations of why that latest explosion happened.

I've been impressed with Biden thus far. He doesn't claim her technically true points are lies, he puts them into context quickly to show their irrelevance, then moves quickly to his own points. And he's remaining really nicely focused, which is coming across especially strongly given the contrast with Palin's blatant answers to the questions she wanted instead of the questions she's asked.

I'm just encouraged that the CNN ticker shows the independent voters are also getting fed up with her constant dodging.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:36 PM
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White flag of surrender? I guess she didn't have a canned answer ready so she said the first thing that popped in her head.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:37 PM
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ooh! worm says that undecided Ohio women are really rather keen on getting TFO of Iraq.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:37 PM
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Palin got Biden on gay marriage. If the Democrats actually supported gay marriage, that wouldn't have been a gotcha, of course.

What is this crawler?


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:37 PM
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130: I agree with Mary Catherine. Palin is hanging tough with Biden (so far), which is a win for her.


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:37 PM
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ugh 169.

Only if we came in expecting absolute abject failure on every single point, every single question.


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:38 PM
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I think Biden was trying make everyone happy by implying "I support gay marriage, I just don't insist that religious people call it 'marriage'" to supporters of gay marriage, and "I do not support gay marriage" to those who oppose it. I doubt anyone was satisfied with that answer, though.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:38 PM
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We'll leave Iraq when our commanders on the ground tell us we can. Nice maintaining the principle of civilian control of the military, Palin.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:38 PM
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I love the dials on CNN! Women love this right now! So do men!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:38 PM
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That Biden bit on McCain and history was cutting. Nice job, Joe.


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:39 PM
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that flat line on the crawler is the sound of nobody giving a fuck about Iraq, btw. Sorry and all that but they don't.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:39 PM
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175: Exactly!


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:40 PM
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That Biden bit on McCain and history was cutting. Nice job, Joe.


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:40 PM
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175: Exactly!


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:40 PM
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Nukular!


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:41 PM
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Props to the leader of Al-Quaeda in Iraq!


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:41 PM
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NOTCH OF DEATH! Notch of death just spotted as Palin started talking about Al Qaeda! that's the second sign of a dead candidature (the first sign is Yglesias saying "well, I thought that was probably a draw").


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:42 PM
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Turning off. If there's anything significant, it'll be a 10-second-max gaffe, and the rest is too anodyne to watch.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:42 PM
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My own opinion is that nuclear Iran and unstable Pakistan are each more serious threat than the other. I also think that the very serious question of a second Holocaust should be discussed calmly and rationally, without soundbites, sloganeering and gotchas.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:43 PM
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Oh what an ally we have in Israel.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:43 PM
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This format sucks.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:43 PM
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"Doctor Henry Kissinger..."


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:43 PM
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"Henry Kissinger shared with me his passion... for diplomacy!"


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:43 PM
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IEM prices are nothing to flat btw; they moved c2pp during the Obama/McCain debate, but with DEM_WTA already at 70.5%, I don't think it really had any higher to go.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:43 PM
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Palin's audience is not us.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:43 PM
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"Yer friends and your allies ready to back-ye-up there!"


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:44 PM
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"Kissenger just shared with me his passion for diplomacy and that's what John McCain and I would engage in."

Glad to know (a) that Kissenger is a sharing kind of guy and (b) that McCain's not categorically ruling out diplomacy.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:44 PM
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190: Yep. I'd love more direct discussion between the two candidates.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:45 PM
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That Biden bit on McCain and history was cutting. Nice job, Joe.


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:45 PM
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Israel a "peace-seeking nation"? Hrmmm....


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:46 PM
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"avoid another holocaust." Get Lieberman up there stat.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:46 PM
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I got freaked out for a second that you guys had commented on things before they were said, but then I remembered that I had paused the TV for a bit.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:46 PM
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(Pac NW apples are fucking fabulous. Ain't none better.)

I tuned in when they were talking about gay marriage, and I'm sorry to say that Palin actually seems coherent. Did I miss anything really hilarious on her part?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:47 PM
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I had a good conversation with a war criminal! (And you know what he told me? Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac. Whatever that means.)

The smile has slowly been vanishing from her face.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:47 PM
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Oh, don't refer to yourself in the third person, Joe.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:47 PM
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(Pac NW apples are fucking fabulous. Ain't none better.)

I tuned in when they were talking about gay marriage, and I'm sorry to say that Palin actually seems coherent. Did I miss anything really hilarious on her part?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:47 PM
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(Pac NW apples are fucking fabulous. Ain't none better.)

I tuned in when they were talking about gay marriage, and I'm sorry to say that Palin actually seems coherent. Did I miss anything really hilarious on her part?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:47 PM
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"I would not have joined this ticket were I not absolutely sure that Barack Obama shared my passion." Gee, Joe, maybe you should reconsider that stance on gay marriage?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:47 PM
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Goddamit. I thought that one good thing about this election, no matter the result, was that I would not longer have to listen the someone in the executive branch saying "nukular."


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:47 PM
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I wish Ifill would ask Palin about the seven-headed dragon rising from the sea.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:47 PM
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I agree with 197...Palin loves to use the second person, but then address to the camera. Maybe the mod could step in, like in the presidential debate.


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:47 PM
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Biden crawling badly (arguably a NoD there), Palin crawling well on MidEast - who'd have thought that Likud-nutterism was so popular with undecideds in Ohio?


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:48 PM
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I'm pleased to see that Ohio doesn't seem to give a crap about Israel, either.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:48 PM
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Every damn answer- "No, we are right, but let me talk about this other topic instead."


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:48 PM
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I luuuuuuv Israel.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:49 PM
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Palin's audience is not us.

Yep. Which is why I suspect she's doing rather well. The dramatically lowered expectations going into the debate can only help her.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:49 PM
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We can't play the "blame game" with the Bush administration? Watch me.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:49 PM
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"Shared with me his passion"? Who's that a dogwhistle to?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:49 PM
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4 Mavericks.


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:49 PM
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Jeezus. Pointing fingers.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:49 PM
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There have been huge blenders in the war? Oh, blunders. She almost picked up a large segment of the white vote.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:49 PM
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That was the equivalent of the "you were wrong" moment.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:50 PM
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211, 212: dsquared and I read the crawler differently.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:51 PM
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"Nukular weapons would be the be-all and end-all of too many people in too many parts of our planet"? What does that mean?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:51 PM
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Nucular weapons are the be all end all of too many people on the planet? Whuhuh?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:51 PM
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Biden's hammering his points home very well. It's too bad Palin's somehow learned how to string together a half-coherent thought in the last 48 hours. Do you think maybe she's on something?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:51 PM
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smirk/notch combination observed again - people really don't like Palin when she does that smile ...

IEM still flat. this debate has achieved nothing.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:51 PM
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I'd say that Palin has learned her lessons well and performed adequately.

Per what Dsquared said above, while Palin is an archetypal honky, as am I, a lot of Americans, and even a lot of honkies, don't like archetypal honkies. She might get on peoples' nerves.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:52 PM
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Nucular *wince* nucular *wince* nucular.....it's overwhelming.

Did not buy enough beer....


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:53 PM
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225: Palin does well if she doesn't have to face a followup.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:53 PM
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That Couric interview was a ploy!


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:53 PM
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"No one has been a better friend of Israel than Joe Biden."

Good line. He should've followed up on it.

"That night Israel broke up with his girlfriend and drank that entire fifth of rum at the party, who took his keys and helped clean up the bathroom after he puked? Joe Biden."

"When Israel needed a job back in high school so he could afford his car insurance, who asked his manager at the Gap and put in a good word to get the guy hired for the summer? Joe Biden."

"When Israel went after that really cute girl who went to CalTech at the party last week, who bought three rounds of drinks for her two friends and kept them playing pool for two hours? Joe Biden."


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:53 PM
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I gotta say, based on the crawler, ladies love Joe Biden.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:53 PM
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I'm afraid D2's right that this debate isn't doing a goddamn thing one way or the other. Not even ay hilarious lines from Palin. Poop.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:54 PM
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232: He's hairplugarrific.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:54 PM
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I am delighted that this debate isn't going to do a goddam thing.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:56 PM
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Is Bosniacs a word?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:56 PM
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Is "Bosniacs" right?


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:56 PM
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I don't think Palin sounds particularly coherent. Her gay marriage answer was rambling.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:57 PM
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229's right. Basically she's being asked to talk about what the McCain administration would do, which she's drilled; she isn't being asked to actually explain anything or to show nuance, really. And with no followups, she can't be pressed for specifics.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:57 PM
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When do you have a stomach for genocide?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:57 PM
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Bosniacs?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:57 PM
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229: Exactly. It's kind of painful how obviously her answers are canned, given that she never actually answers the question precisely or provides a reply to the previous statement. She instead says something that flows well and addresses a tangential point that would definitely come up in the debate. The CNN ticker really seems to suggest that the "average" independents are on to her, since her answers are barely moving it into the positive anymore.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:57 PM
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Well, she is rambling, but she's not rambling in an especially hilarious way. She sounds vague, but not blithering.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:58 PM
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"Oh, it's so obvious that I'm a Washington outsider." With that aw shucks accent. Puke.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:58 PM
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People are so close minded about genocide and holocausts. It makes rational discussion impossible.

Also taxes.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:58 PM
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he's sighing. i'm having gore flashbackx.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:58 PM
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She watched those debates *giggle big eyes giggle* tee hee...

It makes me sick.


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:58 PM
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That "aw shucks" tone tanks the crawler.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:59 PM
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Shit, her point about divestment is not bad.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:59 PM
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245: I was pleased to see the CNN ticker dive when she did that.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:59 PM
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The nuclear option is on the table in Darfur!


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:59 PM
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247: I don't think Palin's garner that much sympathy.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:59 PM
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Biden's (asinine) Darfur plan scores well! chiz chiz. Palin tries to do the "maverick! washington outsider!" thing, plus a retread of "for it before you were against it" (hey, who was number 1 in 2004?), and notches herself up another Notch Of Doom. She's fucked it. This was her chance and she's screwed it.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:59 PM
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Bosniaks, actually. Bosnian Muslims.

(Lurking geographer)


Posted by: Thalweg | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:59 PM
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247: I don't think Palin's garnering that much sympathy.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:59 PM
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She does the femmy thing.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 7:59 PM
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She sounds fine. And Her People are eating this up.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:00 PM
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What is this notch of doom you speak of? Sounds like it might be part of the upcoming Palin porno.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:01 PM
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She is so not up to playing the meta card.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:01 PM
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She's not failing spectacularly enough. I am worried again.


Posted by: belle lettre | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:01 PM
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(Lurking geographer)

I love this blog.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:02 PM
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The nuclear option is on the table in Darfur!


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:02 PM
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255 to 246. The numbers keep changing.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:02 PM
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Her People are eating this up.

Her People aren't enough to win the election. And VP debates don't matter anyhow.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:03 PM
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Biden's hammering his points home very well. It's too bad Palin's somehow learned how to string together a half-coherent thought in the last 48 hours. Do you think maybe she's on something?

She's not bad, for what she's doing. She has a bit of smirking going on during Biden's responses, which probably plays well with viewers.

I've been unable to stand it after an hour, and it strikes me that anyone who watches the entire thing might begin to notice that Palin seems to be exhausting her repertoire.

I've wished a couple of times that Biden would come out and say in his response to Palin: Well, we know that the fact-checkers will be telling the American people tomorrow whether that's the truth.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:03 PM
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She's not failing as spectacularly as I want either, but the CNN ticker *does* go up every time Biden speaks, and it stays flat for Palin. I'd love it to nosedive for her, though.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:03 PM
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256 - Yeah, and it's offensive as hell.


Posted by: Mrs. TJ | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:03 PM
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I think that one reason why Palin isn't winning is that the media establishment is deserting McCain.

The conspiracy theory explanation is almost always the best one. My explanation is that the malefactors have squeezed every bit of juice out of the Republicans and wants to switch to the Democrats.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:04 PM
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We're both mavericks *haha* how could we agree?

"Wasilla Main Street"? Groan.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:04 PM
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I'm having serious fears that if McCain wins, he'll die in office of old age, and we'll be stuck with Palin. I'm also (at this moment) afraid that Obama will be assasinated, and we'll be stuck with Biden. Vastly preferable to a president Palin, but sad nonetheless.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:04 PM
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John McCain single-handedly won Viet Nam.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:04 PM
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glad to see someone's talking about the working class


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:05 PM
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257: She does not sound fine. She like if I rehearsed 16 major paragraphs in Farsi to the point where I could spit them out in my sleep. And Her People are 20-30% of the population. If the ticket can't grab independents or the few competence conservatives out there (Hi TLL!), they're fucked.

To my great joy, the phrase "We're a team of Mavericks!" caused a sudden drop in the tracker. Whoo independent voters!


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:05 PM
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Bosniaks, actually. Bosnian Muslims.

Hey, thanks!


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:05 PM
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There's nothing average about an average Main Street family in Wasilla. Alaska is not average. It's not a "microcosm" for the United States as Palin is so fond of saying. It operates under extremely unique circumstances, and she needs to stop pretending otherwise.

Sadly, I think people eat that stuff up.


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:05 PM
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There you go again! Ha, that's a clever line!


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:05 PM
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"doggoneit"


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:06 PM
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Why did Biden pass up the opportunity to point out that the Dem ticket is not proposing to raise taxes?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:06 PM
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"Her reward is in heaven" ???


Posted by: Mrs. TJ | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:06 PM
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"Doggone it?" I refuse to believe that's a natural part of her idiolect.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:06 PM
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Besides Holocausts, genocide, and taxes, we need to take a new look at bureaucracy. Can there be such a thing as too much bureaucracy? I say NO!!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:06 PM
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OK, I went back to the TV.

That education response made me want to chew my own leg off.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:07 PM
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She has a bit of smirking going on during Biden's responses, which probably plays well with viewers

watch the GD crawler!!!!!!!!! we don't have to speculate about this!!!! it doesn't!!!!!!!

The "Notch of Doom", by the way, is a phrase coined in Australian elections where the crawler was first used - refers to the big sudden step down when a politician starts talking, which alerts you to the fact "People fundamentally don't like this person".

also, it's been mentioned before, but by definition, you can't have a team of mavericks.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:07 PM
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I thought for a minute she was running for school board.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:07 PM
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mrh, you're welcome! I love this blog too, LB.


Posted by: Thalweg | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:08 PM
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Nice that she wants to fund education more. With what?


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:08 PM
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279: Yeah... that sort of cracked me up. So much for dog whistles.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:08 PM
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280: Her speech is normal and correct for us ueber-honkies. But as I said, I think that the Rs are far overestimating the national love for ueber-honkies.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:08 PM
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Was her answer on education half way decent? It may not accurately reflect McCain's policy, but it didn't sound dreadful.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:09 PM
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I have yet to hear her giggle. Seriously, has anyone actually heard that? Maybe I should check my audio.

She was expected to fail spectacularly, but instead she's doing quite well. Better than Biden, in that her focus is sharper (more canned? yes, of course).

Not that the VP debate really matters, after all.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:09 PM
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"John McCain has already tapped me."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:09 PM
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278: That was covered thoroughly earlier; maybe he didn't want to be too repetitive?


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:10 PM
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It's so cute that she thought Ifil was asking her to explain what the VP does, rather than what she will do as vp.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:10 PM
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Nice Cheney's "fourth branch" question from Ifill. I don't think Palin understood, although there wasn't anything good for her to say if she did.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:11 PM
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"Her reward is in Heaven. Sadly, she's probably going to Hell."

She has what I always thought was a MN accent.


Posted by: stroll | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:11 PM
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it's been mentioned before, but by definition, you can't have a team of mavericks.

But John McCain is the original maverick.


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:11 PM
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B did you skip TKD practice?


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:11 PM
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"Dick Cheney has been the most dangerous vice-president in American history." BAM: crawler maxes out.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:12 PM
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Better than Biden, in that her focus is sharper

Are you running the debate through google translate or something, MC?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:12 PM
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She's shared passion with Kissinger and she's been tapped by McCain. That's sort of slutty in such a short period.

/sexism


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:12 PM
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298: Woohoo! I'm too cheap for cable, so I have no crawler.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:12 PM
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She's a complete joke. Stop the pearl clutching, folks, she's not doing her ticket any good.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:13 PM
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295: Yeah, MN or WI. I head that she's not an Alaska native.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:13 PM
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Good job by Joe Biden on Cheney. Palin goofed on that.


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:13 PM
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I cannot believe that anyone gives a fuck about the role of the Vice President, so this segment is trading on pure like and dislike. On any objective reading of the crawler, they are both more or less equally liked, but Biden is slightly more popular due to the halo effect of being on a more popular ticket. Nonevent. why am I still watching the fucker. Oh yeah, because I can't sleep for worrying, that's why.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:13 PM
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Did Ifil just ask, "What's your greatest weakness?"

Biden better say, "If anything, I love this country too much."


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:13 PM
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People from Minnesota move to Alaska because the winters are less harsh there. True fact.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:14 PM
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Can't Ifill chime in and say "Answer the fucking question"? This question was about greatest weaknesses.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:14 PM
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305: Considered drinking heavily? It's a timehonored method of dealing with vocational stress.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:14 PM
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303 - Born in Idaho, but family moved to AK when she was an infant.


Posted by: Mrs. TJ | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:14 PM
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289: Aside from being completely content-free, it was fine.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:14 PM
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It's a B-grade job interview question, and it's getting answers that reflect that.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:14 PM
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306: That's my answer for the job-interview version of that question.


Posted by: stroll | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:15 PM
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Having a dead spouse seems to be a plus.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:15 PM
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306: He did! Awesome.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:15 PM
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297: No, we biked so we could get home fast. I used the stopwatch on my iphone and it took us one minute and three seconds. Uphill. I about had a heart attack.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:16 PM
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Dear god, if maverick is a drinking word there are going to be some visits to the ER tonigh.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:16 PM
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She fails to grasp the semantics of "attribute." She has used it backwards twice! You attribute result "X" to reasons "Y", not reasons "Y" to result "X".

She is awful. Ramble, stutter, mush.


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:16 PM
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283: watch the GD crawler!!!!!!!!! we don't have to speculate about this!!!! it doesn't!!!!!!!

Doesn't play well with viewers, that is.

Sorry, dsquared. Wasn't watching the crawler, obviously.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:17 PM
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Palin is obviously doing well relative to the Couric interview, in that she is in most cases saying things which superficially sound like answers and aren't obvious nonsense.

Biden is clearly also doing that, and doing a better job of responding to both the initial question and to Palin's attacks on him.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:17 PM
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Does it count when Biden says it? I sure hope not.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:18 PM
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Whoa! Attack the maverick!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:18 PM
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She fails to grasp the semantics of "attribute."

That's it, this election is over. No one's going to vote for the Republicans now!


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:18 PM
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322: Yeah, I was pleased to hear that. Finally!


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:19 PM
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I don't compromise, I work together to force people to do what I want.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:20 PM
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"No, Gwen, I've never changed my mind on anything."


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:20 PM
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@323...yeah it's not a big deal, but I just think it's bizarre.


Posted by: adyates | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:21 PM
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She has what I always thought was a MN accent.

Parts of MN, parts of Canadia, and apparently parts of Alaska. I guess there's some kind of family resemblance between how people talk in boring cold places. Probably because of all the inbreeding.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:22 PM
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326: Biden's answer was kind of lame.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:23 PM
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In fact, too often you're the problem so, government, lessen the tax burden and on our families and get out of the way and let the private sector and our families grow and thrive and prosper.

This was not awkward....about three weeks ago.


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:23 PM
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Didn't she say that her family is diverse once already? Her tape is starting to loop.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:23 PM
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It's actually interesting to listen to this on the radio; Palin is much more annoying. "At the end of the day, as long as everyone is working together for the greater good, it will all be okay."


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:23 PM
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329: Lame questions get lame answers.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:24 PM
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She's probably holding the core, but McCain can't win with the core. All the contested states right now are Bush states. Unless there's a break, McCain can't win, even in a squeaker.

Even though the Armageddonists and snake handlers came back on board, the fact that in order to ingratiate himself with them McCain had to finger Palin (I mean tap Palin) meant that he couldn't choose someone who would have helped him with some more centrist gorup. And that may have decided the election.

Alas, my bet is that my PUMA sister is creaming her jeans right now. If she isn't, though, McCain is doomed.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:24 PM
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"Gee whiz, Mr. Biden, it's a real honor just to be on stage with you!"


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:24 PM
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331: Exactly. The debate should go on another half hour, and she'd loop and loop and loop. Hard not to notice, really.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:24 PM
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335 continued: Little Miss Wasilia's sure stepped up in the world, hasn't she?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:25 PM
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Gwen sucked.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:25 PM
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Joe Biden puts the "fun" in fundamental change.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:25 PM
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331: It's been looping for a little bit now.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:25 PM
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When B wants to be properly banged she comes to boring old Minnesota. Just sayin'.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:26 PM
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338: Yeah, I'm sorry to say she did. I heart her normally. Maybe her ankle is paining her.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:27 PM
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Joe has that maudlin touch when he gets down to regular-people anecdotes. Is it true he never takes a drink? Colour me sceptical.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:27 PM
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343: Racist.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:27 PM
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Is Palin's father Michael Bloomberg?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:28 PM
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341: I'll have you know, John, that my son is reading this thread over my shoulder.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:28 PM
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DEM_WTA and REP_WTA barely moved. What a waste of time.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:29 PM
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Okay, classist asshole momenet: every time her family goes on stage, with one of her older daughters carrying the baby, it just looks so LDS-compound-being-raided to me.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:29 PM
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The MSNBC guy who imitates Eric Sevareid is praising Palin for not making any gross errors. But he is also noting that Palin evaded the questions.

I hate Jeff Greenfield even if he agrees with me.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:29 PM
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It's been looping for a little bit now.

Yes, but you want it to be really obvious to Joe Six-Pack, who's been getting up and down to get a snack and/or take a piss every 15 minutes.

Joe wasn't watching this stupid thing anyway.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:31 PM
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this may not mean a lot to you fuckers, but it means all the world to a guy like me hahahahha. goodnight.


Posted by: movealongnothingtoseehere | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:32 PM
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Matthews is ripping her up and down.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:32 PM
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There was a debate tonight?

Huh!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:33 PM
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Creepy Joe Lieberman.

Alaska isn't "heartland". Not even "rimland". It's periphery.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:34 PM
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Better than Biden, in that her focus is sharper

Which debate were you watching? Both of them were interminable, if you ask me, but at least Biden was focused on the message (don't. push. me. 'cause. I. am. close. to. the. edge), while Palin was all rambly and vague. Was she reciting memorized lines? Was she reading cue cards? Who the hell was she looking at?


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:34 PM
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I hate it when Matthews is on my side. What a waste of air.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:35 PM
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The interaction between them afterwards was interesting, Biden affable and avuncular, and Palin tense. Also, Tom Brokaw is an ass.

I heard a linguist talking about the accent on NPR this evening. He claimed that it was authentically Alaskan. I've never heard an Alaskan who sounded like that, just as I've never heard anyone in the PNW sound like DeNiro's character in This Boy's Life, and that was supposed to be authentic too.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:36 PM
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Pat Buchanan thinks she was spectacular.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:36 PM
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Pat Buchanan just gave Palin points for complete sentences and being the most attractive debater.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:37 PM
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there is no heartland, John.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:37 PM
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Alaska is one of the weird, totally atypical states. 90% of the US is heartland, but not Alaska.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:38 PM
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don't. push. me. 'cause. I. am. close. to. the. edge

Yes! I thought so as well; I was silently urging the man to just go for it, man, it's gotta hurt.

NPR commentator just said that Palin was "facile."


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:41 PM
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You know, I stuck through the whole debate, but I'm really impressed by you troopers that are listening to the commentary. Geez.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:42 PM
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The CBS crawler spiked on the Iraq question. The subjects were undecided, leaning to Obama.

One undecided thought Palin won because Biden wandered, whereas Palin stuck to the question that was asked. Reported without comment.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:42 PM
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Yes! I thought so as well; I was silently urging the man to just go for it, man, it's gotta hurt.

Biden should get her to agree to one more debate, post-election, so he can really let loose.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:43 PM
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W00t! Parsimon's 350 is worse than my 348!


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:43 PM
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CNN tells me that everyone dialled way down on Palin's folkisms. Doggone-it.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:45 PM
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You know, I stuck through the whole debate, but I'm really impressed by you troopers that are listening to the commentary. Geez.

I'm so committed to missing the commentary that I missed when Biden's family came onstage after Obama's convention speech. They say "God bless America," I say *click*.

TV commentary I mean. Not you people, of course.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:45 PM
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One undecided thought Palin won because Biden wandered, whereas Palin stuck to the question that was asked. Reported without comment.

Right, that's the same as the people who want Obama to "give more specifics." Translation: I am unable to follow a complicated sentence.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:45 PM
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Gosh darn, us heartland folk don't get no respect.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:46 PM
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This was actually worth watching. Morning in America! The New Frontier!


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:48 PM
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FWIW, my take is that Palin exceeded the Couric-set minimum expectations, but her folksiness grated at best, none of her answers were effective as such, and I don't think she actually landed any punches. Biden exceeded expectations of gaffes and sexism/condescension, had a number of solid answers, but also failed to land any punches (maybe a couple, but I'm biased, so I'll say none).

As with the Obama-McCain debate, a draw is a loss for the losing campaign. This won't accelerate their collapse, but nor will it forestall it.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:49 PM
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Kos gave a good review to Ifill, which means that the wingers will get her fired. Why does Kos hate Ifill?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:49 PM
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370: Not when you talk like cartoon hicks you don't. (Btw, John, you'll have noticed that my beloved boyfriend does *not* have that Fargo twang.)


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:49 PM
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i did not like that she smiled all the time and her phrase about reward in heaven, it's so insensitive to bring one's deceased dear one into whatever public debate, to remind one's loss so directly, that's just base, her constant appeal that she's an average american with average family, all hers are teachers etc, her that wink, so obvious, shouldn't it just be understood like that, her background
if she tried to be always serious could sound more like convincing even supposed that she's learned all her lines by heart
i liked that Biden did not sound condescending to her at all
when all that mocking is made irrelevant, then people can compare their real policies


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:50 PM
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366: W00t! Parsimon's 350 is worse than my 348!

What. I was getting up and down every 15 minutes. Weren't you? (I'm lying, as it happens. But I admit I wondered why the fuck I was watching that stupid thing. Close enough.)


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:50 PM
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failed to land any punches

Come on, not even with his "none of McCain's positions on the relevant issues are actually mavericky" line? I loved that.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:50 PM
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370: I'm from the heartland. I know the heartland. I love the heartland. And you, Governor Palin, are no heartlander.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:51 PM
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He does it for you, B, because you're so sexy and wholesome. He probably has a dialect coach teaching him Valleyspeak so you feel comfortable.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:53 PM
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I guess there's some kind of family resemblance between how people talk in boring cold places. Probably because of all the inbreeding.

Yeah, that's right, B. Because it's too cold to leave the igloo, of course, in search of an exogamous mate.

Actually, in terms of speech and accent, no way would Palin be mistaken for a Canuck in any part of Canada. Her vowels and intonation are too flat, and her idiom (doggoneit) too quintessentially American. In terms of her general way of being in the world, however: yeah, I guess I can picture her down at the local hockey rink.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:53 PM
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She could easily pass for Minnesotan.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:56 PM
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Apparently Biden did a crying thing. Wow. Feminine side. If I had had a dead kid I could have been a contender.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:57 PM
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372: As with the Obama-McCain debate, a draw is a loss for the losing campaign. This won't accelerate their collapse, but nor will it forestall it.

What they (or she) chiefly accomplished -- to my eyes -- was a reassurance to wavering voters that she's not downright alarmingly stupid. That was probably her mandate at this point.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:57 PM
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Remember, MC (though Canadian) comes from a very sophisticated background. She doesn't appreciate heartlanders.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 8:59 PM
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Is it over? Did Biden get to say "I knew Dan Quayle. I served with Dan Quayle. Dan Quayle was a friend of mind. And you, Governor, are no Dan Quayle"?


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:07 PM
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Palin holds young Trig like he's a rag doll, then hands him off to Piper. Creepy.


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:09 PM
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In Slate Jesse Sheidlower says her accent is Wasillan. "The next town over from Wasilla, Palmer, has a large settlement of Minnesotans--who were moved there by a government relief program in the 1930s--and features of the Minnesotan dialect are thus prominent in the Mat-Su Valley area. Hence the Fargo-like elements in Palin's speech, in particular the sound of her 'O' vowel."


Posted by: fedward | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:10 PM
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The CBS undecideds liked Biden a lot - 46-21 in his favor. I don't think the media has the will to overturn the insta-polls this year, but we'll see.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:13 PM
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388 makes a lot of sense, which is good, because her accent has been driving me up the wall, and not just because I can imitate it disturbing well. Her accent doesn't sound western Canadian at all to my ears.

Because it's too cold to leave the igloo, of course, in search of an exogamous mate.

That's why shiv was on eBay!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:14 PM
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The next town over from Wasilla, Palmer, has a large settlement of Minnesotans

A friend who lives in Palmer told me that Palin is "a redneck from Wasilla."


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:15 PM
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Come to think of it, 'shiv' sounds suspiciously like a Palin-family name, and she has a history of putting big-ticket items on eBay...


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:17 PM
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388: Yep, the Matanuska Colony.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:18 PM
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Ah yes. Shiv and his lesser-known sister Korovo.


Posted by: fedward | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:18 PM
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No love for the fact that Palin said "nucular" repeatedly.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:19 PM
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Here in Wasilla, a town of strip-mall sprawl and eccentric backwoods dwellers,....

No...once a town becomes a town of strip-mall sprawl, it ceases to be a town of eccentric backwoods dwellers.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:19 PM
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Love? I'd have chewed my own ear off for the repeated "nucular" if that were physically possible. Instead I just numbed the pain with Bluecoat gin.


Posted by: fedward | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:21 PM
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387 makes sense. Alaska is so big and so recently (and sparsely) settled by Anglo-Americans that I would expect regional dialect variation within the state to be considerable.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:22 PM
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348, 386: Wow. I have to say, it's just bizarre to me that an older sibling holding an infant younger sibling is now defined as creepy and LDS-compound-y and suchlike. Is this a serious position, or just a passing partisan-inspired fancy?

Most pictures of me (there aren't many) between the ages of 10 and 16, I'm probably holding a younger sibling in my arms or on my lap. Should someone have called the child protective services, or perhaps alerted the media so that Sully could demand paternity tests or something? Mind you, my background was quite sophisticated, as Emerson quite rightly notes.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:25 PM
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What they (or she) chiefly accomplished -- to my eyes -- was a reassurance to wavering voters that she's not downright alarmingly stupid. That was probably her mandate at this point.

I could be wrong, of course, but I have the impression that her low expectations going in were so low that a halfway-competent performance isn't actually helped by them. I think at this point, all it does is remind people: oh yeah, god, she really did sound like a complete loon all last week, didn't she?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:26 PM
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As with the Obama-McCain debate, a draw is a loss for the losing campaign.

Yeah, pretty much. Points to Palin for demonstrating to everyone that she's not a moron, merely grossly ignorant; points to Biden for not ripping her head off and trying to run for a touchdown.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:29 PM
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get out of my secret Christmas place Sarah Palin!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:31 PM
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The "nucular" excitement is silly. It's sort of a marker of rurality or something, but no one should care.

Talk to Languagehat, not me. He'll tear you a new one.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:32 PM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:32 PM
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all it does is remind people: oh yeah, god, she really did sound like a complete loon all last week, didn't she?

Good point. Imagined conversation at the breakfast diner at 6 a.m. tomorrow: Well, she was better than she has been recently, wasn't she? Yeah, looked like she had some good coaching, got things down pat for the debate shindig. Kinda personable, I thought.

Hm.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:34 PM
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399 may be right, and further, the next time she screws up an interview, it'll just reinforce the idea that she was relatively coherent tonight just because she was thoroughly coached.

The "nucular" excitement is silly

Candidate me would say, "The first thing I'd do is convert all the nucular weapons to nuclear weapons." I'd lose whatever election, but at least it'd get a laugh from my smug, condescending supporters.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:39 PM
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Wow. I have to say, it's just bizarre to me that an older sibling holding an infant younger sibling is now defined as creepy and LDS-compound-y and suchlike. Is this a serious position, or just a passing partisan-inspired fancy?

There you go again, Mary Catherine - impugning my passing partisan-inspired fancy.


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:41 PM
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my smug, condescending supporters

Dude, when I run for office, I'm going to mispronunciate everything I possibly can, and you just try to say a word about it.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:44 PM
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I don't think Palin reached out to anyone besides her base, despite her best Israel lovin, tolerance havin, mavericky efforts. But Biden succeeded in carrying forward the tough and confident thing that Obama put forward last week, which I think, as much as the economy, is responsible for his upswing in the polls.


Posted by: JPool | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:47 PM
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Parsimon: Wrong for the English language. Wrong for America.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:48 PM
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CNN poll of debate watchers puts it 51-36 in favor of Joe and against Sarah "nucular" Palin.



Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:50 PM
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410: Why do you insist on viewing everything through the media filter?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:53 PM
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409:

Caller on NPR just now: Governor Palin is, no, of course she's not going to jam her religious beliefs down anybody's throat, she didn't say the word "God" even once, she's an optimist, she's a happy person, and she's going to focus on the important things she talked about: energy, the economy, security and all of that, so anyone who says otherwise is just lying.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:56 PM
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but by definition, you can't have a team of mavericks.

Unless you're being drawn and quartered.

I have to say, it's just bizarre to me that an older sibling holding an infant younger sibling is now defined as creepy and LDS-compound-y and suchlike.

Mandatory abortions for everybody!

AndrewJackson: Neither are worth the ammunition it'd take to abruptly put an end to their tenure in this vale of tears.

Oh, shut up, you dead mass-murdering asshole.

max
['Politics makes for strange bedfellows assholes.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:59 PM
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#403. Unlike, say, the Cherokee

At RedState (where happiness costs so little), Erick Erickson (Would the author of The Art Of Loving lie to you?) thought Sarah Palin was awesome:

"Sarah Palin just field dressed Joe Biden like a moose. She was awesome. She connected with the people. She had fun. She was relaxed. She was awesome."

Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 9:59 PM
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once a town becomes a town of strip-mall sprawl, it ceases to be a town of eccentric backwoods dwellers.

Wasilla - a moveable feast. Or at least a moveable food court.


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 10:00 PM
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Did anyone else notice Palin's marvelous Freudian slip? "John McCain is the man to leave, uh, lead this country."


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 10:01 PM
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So isn't "nucular" basically a dog whistle at this point? I think conservatives do it just to piss off liberals.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 10:02 PM
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415: Apparently they tore down the mall to build a Target.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 10:03 PM
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The "nucular" thing was striking because sometimes she managed to say "nuclear" instead, and a couple times I'm pretty sure I heard "nuculear" with four syllables. If she'd only pronounced it "nucular" without ever attempting anything else, it probably would have meant less to me (and been less annoying). But since there was evidence they'd actually given her coaching on it, it was grating.


Posted by: fedward | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 10:06 PM
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417: No, I think those who do it really don't realize they're doing it. They can't hear it. It's a weird phenomenon. It's not particularly conservatives, and it's not just "nucular."


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 10:08 PM
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420: I think you're wrong.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 10:28 PM
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I suspect that Sarah Palin wound up supporting civil unions for gay couples mostly by accident. She lost her footing around that question, and backed her way into agreeing with Biden because it sounded so reasonable. McCain doesn't support civil unions.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 10:32 PM
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While the civil union thing might come back to haunt her, her most spectacular fuck-up, in my opinion, was her complete incomprehension of the question about the Constitutional role of the Vice President. She didn't even lie effectively; she just had no idea what the issues under debate were. Bad, bad show. And then Biden pointed out very succintly what was at stake, and how Palin had failed.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 10:35 PM
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When she said that McCain KNOWS how to win wars, I really wanted someone in the audience to shout, "Assumes facts not in evidence." Maybe I'm too acculturated to the Mineshaft.

She'd have come off a lot worse if Ifill had pressed her on all the questions she evaded.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 10:45 PM
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One woman at our debate watching party couldn't get past Palin's shoes. "Four inch red patent leather pumps are NOT vice presidential!"


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 10:48 PM
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When she said that McCain KNOWS how to win wars

1. get shot down
2. wait for the war to be lost
3. ?
4. profit!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 10:53 PM
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new-clear

Anyway, was there a debate? I guess I could read the transcript.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 10:57 PM
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424: If debates had audience members occasionally shouting "Racist." I might not have to get so drunk to do my civic duty and watch them.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 10:59 PM
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I liked her clothes tonight better than whatever she was wearing at her convention speech, though.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 11:01 PM
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Of course, if it were up to me, all political advertisements would be restricted to LOLcats format. "O NOES THE 3AM FONE AND OBAMA IZ SLEEPIN" etc...


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 11:02 PM
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Cock jokes and cries of "comity!" would have helped as well.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 11:03 PM
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425: oh please. Without the heels Gore's only 5'2".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 11:05 PM
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1. get shot down
2. wait for the war to be lost
3. ?
4. profit!

I think step three here is "marry money".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 11:15 PM
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her complete incomprehension of the question about the Constitutional role of the Vice President. She didn't even lie effectively; she just had no idea what the issues under debate were.

Her and 92 percent of Americans.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 11:37 PM
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CNN is replaying their post-debate focus group. Did I ever mention how much in love I am with Soledad O'Brien? Stiletto boots and a skirt tonight—hawt.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 11:45 PM
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"Four inch red patent leather pumps are NOT vice presidential!"

Vice, perhaps. Presidential, perhaps not.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 11:46 PM
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Because it's too cold to leave the igloo, of course, in search of an exogamous mate.

I was thinking more just sparse population, but okay.

it's just bizarre to me that an older sibling holding an infant younger sibling is now defined as creepy and LDS-compound-y and suchlike. Is this a serious position, or just a passing partisan-inspired fancy?

I think it's a combination of just how *many* kids there are on the stage, and the fact that it's almost always one of the older girls holding the baby. Obviously when one sees Palin on tv she's usually busy doing non-baby-holding things, but I mean, the baby *has* a father, right?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 11:49 PM
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I'm more worried that the baby always seems sedated.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 11:50 PM
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My theory is that the baby was coached to act as if he has Down syndrome, and he's going too far with the act, but it's too late to rein him in. WHY IS THE MEDIA NOT ASKING THESE QUESTIONS?


Posted by: OPINIONATED GRANDMA | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 11:53 PM
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One woman at our debate watching party couldn't get past Palin's shoes. "Four inch red patent leather pumps are NOT vice presidential!"

Totally sexist. I failed to notice Palin's shoes, though, but I must admit that the description offered is impressive. Maybe there's one likeable thing about her.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 11:54 PM
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438: Yeah, I've wondered about that too. Especially since obviously none of the people holding him actually have tits with milk supplies on offer (one hopes), which is the only method I know of reliably keeping a baby quiet.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 11:55 PM
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Does Joe Biden remind anyone else of Jimmy Buffett? I'm not sure if that's exactly right, but I do know that every time I see him face straight forward, I imagine a ponytail.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 11:56 PM
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Oh, 440 was me, like that needed to be said.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 11:56 PM
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Wrongshore, you're insane. Also: ew.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 2-08 11:58 PM
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The man from Wilmington or Margaritaville?

The only thing missing is the ponytail.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10- 3-08 12:11 AM
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Does Joe Biden remind anyone else of Jimmy Buffett?

Not till you mentioned it, but YES. No wonder I'm meh about him.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 3-08 12:49 AM
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441: Seriously. Why don't the babies cry? That's what babies do when freaked out. And how can they be not freaked out by being passed around like a collection plate under TV lights? Why hasn't there been a single burp, much less a vomit? There must be drugs involved. No baby is that cooperative.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 10- 3-08 12:51 AM
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Dude, that baby is fat, like a Maury Povich baby. Fat babies are fucking cute.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 10- 3-08 12:56 AM
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I was kind of irritated by the semi frantic pat-pat-pat thing Palin was doing while she was holding Trig. Like she was desperately trying to calm him, but he was practically asleep. Or, you know, drugged.


Posted by: Mrs. TJ | Link to this comment | 10- 3-08 2:48 AM
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BREAKING DRUDGE: Obama Campaign accuses Palins of drugging Trig! More outrageous claims against Palin's family trumpeted by Obama's blogger smear artists.

Nice work gang.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 3-08 3:20 AM
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Sarah Palin Debate Flowchart. Not bad.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 3-08 3:58 AM
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I may be thinking of something else, but I remember reading that Down syndrome babies are very quiet.

max
['But Google isn't turning up Da. Sometimes they are very quiet.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 3-08 4:04 AM
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And go read the debate transcript if you harbor any doubts about what really went down last night—the deeply fatuous, delivered with spunk and misplaced confidence. (And yes, I realize that it is the event itself that matters.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 3-08 4:18 AM
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Down syndrome babies are really easy. They sleep all the time the first year or two.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 3-08 4:32 AM
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I'm having serious fears that if McCain wins, he'll die in office of old age

On the other hand, he might follow the path of Stephen A. Douglas, Horace Greeley, and perhaps others now remembered for things other than their presidential campaigns, if they're remembered at all.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 3-08 5:38 AM
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421 -- Just like Eye-rack. Badge of honor.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10- 3-08 5:46 AM
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Parts of MN, parts of Canadia, and apparently parts of Alaska. I guess there's some kind of family resemblance between how people talk in boring cold places. Probably because of all the inbreeding.

b,
I disagree with John here, and a Professor of Linguistics with a specialty in American regional dialects on NPR yesterday agrees with me.

Palin's speech resembles a part of the MN accent, but it is not spot on. Neither was Francis McDermot's accent in Fargo, which I loved.

Nobody I know has said Palin sounds exactly like someone from where they live. Everyone seems to say it is similar to this or that, but not exactly from here.

The Professor called it a Northern accent, a NW accent, but I'm not from there, so I dunno.

Accent aside her choice of words is what I would call "small town," but again she does it way more than any of the actual small town people I know in MN.

In a way I think maybe she is pushing the choice of words and the accent itself, maybe copying Frances McDermit, to try to appear like a small-town down-home just-folks girl from the North. Kinda like Bush's fake Texas thing. Palin's dialect and accent come and go, and they are over the top much of the time. Personally I get tired of her voice fairly quickly, and then it becomes kinda grating. That might be just me. I know I have lost all tolerance for 'cartoon' speech too, I mean like the real cartoon voices in cartoons. Maybe I've ODed on them because of my kids.

And regarding boring cold places - I'd be happy to show you all the non-boring things we do up here when it gets cold. Just say the word.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 10- 3-08 9:53 AM
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A drug, broadly speaking, is any chemical substance that, when absorbed into the body of a living organism, alters normal bodily function.
================
Taylor
alberta drug rehab


Posted by: Taylor | Link to this comment | 11-11-08 3:35 AM
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