Re: Mafia

1

Pacing!


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 5:55 PM
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I sincerely doubt that Mafia could be modified to fit unfogged.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 5:55 PM
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3

Why's that, punch bowl pooper?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:02 PM
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4

Finally, the game begins. The narrator summarizes: "The town wakes up. Person X has been killed, and the police were correct/incorrect in their guess." (Person X is out of the game. Sorry. They're dead.)

The way I always played, the narrator (known as "god") would nod or shake his/her head at the cops while everyone else is asleep. It seems that letting other people know whether the cops have definite information on who the Mafia are would modify the game somewhat.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:07 PM
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5

The paranoid ferment, the accusations, studying of the merest gestures, seeing what's going on all around you all at ounce, the wheedling, the rhetorical dodges, everything that makes Mafia good and great depends on the real copresence of the participants.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:08 PM
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4 accords with my experience, as well. I didn't really read the description carefully, because I assumed that heebie had gotten it right.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:09 PM
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7

Here you can have chat windows going on, on the side, unbeknownst to everyone else. The intrigue is re-couched.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:09 PM
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8

Lurkers can support you in email!


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:10 PM
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9

I'm damn opposed. Damn damn damn opposed.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:11 PM
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Through a secret process

On occasions when I've played, I thought that roles were assigned via slips of paper. But maybe that was just a cover-up, for the secret process!


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:12 PM
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11

I played this game with a large group roughly every Sunday my last year of college. It got increasingly baroque, with a "doctor" who could designate one person to watch each night (hence they could not be killed), and some other characters I've forgotten. I know there were specialized roles within the mafia, but the details escape me. Roles were dispensed by shuffling a set of cards and dealing them out (black cards are mafia, aces are police, I don't remember exactly).

I'm with Ben in 5 -- it works much better with people in the same room. Might be fun to try, though.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:13 PM
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I've never tried one of these really ramified versions of Mafia, and am told that some of them are frightfully complex. Naturally, I prefer the plain yet exquisite pleasures of the simpler version.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:15 PM
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Ah, there was a vigilante who could choose, precisely once during the whole game, to kill someone during the night.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:15 PM
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I've also never played Mafia with more than ten people, I think.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:21 PM
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15

How to take the fun out of mafia.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:24 PM
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The rules are unclear to me. Suppose at the end there are two people, one mafia and one non-mafia. Each wants to kill the other. What happens?


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:26 PM
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17

The mafia wins.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:32 PM
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18

Another thing that's important in fleshly mafia: who's domineering? who's interrupting, something that doesn't even apply when communications come pre-chunked? Who's reacting how?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:36 PM
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Who's talking too much? Who is oddly silent? Do those two keep exchanging conspiratorial glances because they're Mafia, or did they start seeing each other last night and not tell anyone?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:39 PM
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I agree in principle about the advantages of actual presence for this game, but comment threads here have a dynamic of their own, which might be interesting to apply to this.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 6:47 PM
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9: I'm damn opposed. Damn damn damn opposed.

And I'll take my blog and go home. Jesus, ben, don't play then and don't read the thread. It might be interesting in different ways and (gasp) it might in fact suck. OH NOES!!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:18 PM
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22

JP doesn't know his Simpsons.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:18 PM
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Ben is Mafia. No doubt about it.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:24 PM
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Ah. A Simpson trap. In fact I do have a nearly complete blank where shared Simpsons pop cultural knowledge should be. The phrasing should have been a warning signal.



Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:25 PM
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25

J'accuse!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:31 PM
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I'm damn opposed. Damn damn damn opposed.

Sign me up!


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:34 PM
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27

Eat my shorts!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:34 PM
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28

I think everyone should also adopt a new pseud for the duration of the game.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:34 PM
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29

The adoption process is too much of a hassle. I say we just kidnap them.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:35 PM
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30

I get to assign everyone to each other's names and only I know who is who.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:36 PM
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31

Can someone explain the cops and the head-shaking thing again?

I didn't really follow that, because the kids who played Mafia in my quirky college dorm were the drama kids and they excluded the alt-weekly/wannabe-indie-rockers.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:37 PM
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32

The detective or whoever can, in the dead of night, silently point to another sleeping townsperson, and is informed by a silent shake or nod of the head (gestures may be reversed in some parts of Europe) whether the pointed-to is mafia or not.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:41 PM
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33

32: Thank you, ben. That was most helpful. I'll send along your monthly tribute in the morning.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:44 PM
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34

i can't comprehend the rules well enough how to play it online, i'll try to read the post in the morning too maybe
i can be just a spectator i suppose and supply some hints occured to me deductively
if it's ok with the rules


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:48 PM
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28: Hell no! I want a "Who shot KR?" round.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:49 PM
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I'll change my name to Boy Staunton for you, Minivet.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:50 PM
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34: The game can move as slowly as necessary to make sure everybody's clear. So before each step, I can stop and explain what's about to happen. So if you'd like to play, and this is your only reservation, don't worry, go ahead and e-mail me. Or I can answer your questions over e-mail.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:52 PM
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38

It seems like the voting process would be especially tedious, BTW.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:54 PM
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39

38: According to blog tradition, you should have a poll and then do the opposite of the poll result.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 7:55 PM
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40

I have never heard of this game, but I wish to point out that irl people do not *hang* suspected Mafiosos. They don't shoot them either. They stfu and keep quiet.

I propose that the game should be called "Old West Gunslinger," or "High Noon" or something instead.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:06 PM
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41

Or if you want it to be called "Mafia," the "townspeople" should be jurors. Jeez.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:07 PM
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38: Here's my theory of how that will work: Give everyone eight minutes to debate. Then I'll say, "here is how I'll determine your consensus vote: when posts a name and then has a full four minutes of silence after that, I'll consider that to be the consensus suggestion. So basically everyone is tacitly agreeing to the name by leaving the thread idle for four minutes. And granted, the argument could keep going if there is strong disagreement, but I don't really know how that's resolved in the regular game either.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:09 PM
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I don't really know how that's resolved in the regular game either

By voting--that way if, say, John Emerson is ADAMANTLY OPPOSED to executing, say, me, he can't veto the group. But if consensus is four minutes of silence, he can basically hang the game up forever. Or until he has to take a crap. Unless he has a laptop, in which case he can hang it up until he has to sleep, but that would require you, Heebie, to stay up all night monitoring the blog to see if he's commented in the last four minutes.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:12 PM
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Practically speaking, that is. I mean, you could just wait until the next day and use time stamps, but then the game could drag on for like two weeks.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:13 PM
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45

So are non-players supposed to stay out of the game's comment thread? I'm imagining they'd have to, right?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:14 PM
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I thought I'd post a list of all the players in the body of the post. That way non-players can comment and be obnoxious, but no one need be fooled that they are contributing anything useful. Or maybe they will be useful. But they don't get a vote, of course.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:15 PM
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You're crazy, Heebie. Didn't you finally get permission to do something *other* than sit at your computer all weekend??


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:22 PM
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You might want to do this on Friday or Saturday night.

max
['Lest the time constraints kick in.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:22 PM
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41: Wouldn't that be an interesting variation on jury trials. "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, one of you is under suspicion of murder. It is up to you to figure out who."


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:25 PM
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I've never played this under the 'Mafia™' brand - been playing it as Werewolf for years. Here are the rules in a different format: http://www.wunderland.com/LooneyLabs/Werewolf/Rules.html


Posted by: T. Jaxon | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:32 PM
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51

You all don't think it sounds like fun? Judging from my inbox, not many of you do.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:39 PM
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52

I'll make it fun. I define fun.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:41 PM
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It might be more fun on an IRC channel. For stuff that really needs near-realtime interaction, blog comments kind of suck. Even the faster heated threads here kind of suck for that reason (among others).


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:41 PM
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51: I'll be out of town with eekbeat at a lovely cabin in the Shenandoah Valley. Everyone else has no excuse.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:42 PM
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53: We're constrained by my ignorance of what IRC means, and my stubborn unwillingness to learn new things.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:46 PM
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IRC is a chatroom protocol.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:48 PM
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57

I'm going to pretend I didn't hear that.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 8:56 PM
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58

Young man.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 9:01 PM
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59

I'm older than you, heebie.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 9:04 PM
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You think so? I'm old.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 9:06 PM
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Actually no, I know your age, and I'm quite a bit younger. Just wanted to see if I could pull that one over.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 9:07 PM
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You were like 14 at the Austin meet-up. We masked our surprise and slipped the bartender an extra big tip.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 9:10 PM
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Ignoring the thread, what about an unfogged game where heebie helps me with my math homework?

YAY!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 9:30 PM
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I think it sounds fun, but I am reluctant to commit to being anywhere at a set time, especially when it involves commenting on Unfogged at PK's bedtime.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 9:31 PM
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I can help you with your math homework Sifu. I have a Ph.D. in dogagory theory and curvular algebra. I also know a bit about bottomology.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 9:32 PM
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I can help if you have any questions about separatorics or less numb theory.


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 10:08 PM
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I'm sure it's going to be a very different game than in-person Mafia, but that doesn't mean it won't be fun. Diplomacy, for example, plays very differently in person versus via snailmail versus various ways of playing online, but each format has its own dynamic and lots of serious devotees.

Sadly, I won't be able to participate. But you guys have fun!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 10:23 PM
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M/tch you're a giant nerd. Do you play Diplomacy online?

I've been looking for a game.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 10:33 PM
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Diplomacy, like chess, is one of those games that's scary because serious people have names for all the openings and whatnot. "Let's go for Lepanto!" And those of us who've only played casually several times are completely lost.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 8-08 10:36 PM
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A searing dystopian vision of the future: Unfogged... this time next year... every second thread is devoted to Dungeons and Dragons.


Posted by: Amit | Link to this comment | 10- 9-08 1:04 AM
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I define fun.

Sorry heebs, you know that's Megan's role.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 10- 9-08 1:19 AM
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i.e. to playing Dungeons and Dragons.


Posted by: Amit | Link to this comment | 10- 9-08 3:43 AM
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Ok, well, fine. If Friday and Saturday are out, then I may or may not be around on Sunday, and therefore volunteer to be lynched, conditionally.

max
['Because it's fun!']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 9-08 4:28 AM
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Friday and Saturday are definitely out, because my folks are in town. But feel free to sign up last minute on Sunday.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 9-08 6:26 AM
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Do you play Diplomacy online?

Fuck no. I've only actually played it in person, and not that many times, and that was a long time ago, but I've read about the snail mail version and seen various ways of playing it online, and seen the fervor of the devotees. It's interesting to me as a phenomenon, but not my cup of tea. Too nerdy.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10- 9-08 6:35 AM
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Please, Homey, do not insult M/tch's coolth. He has his finger on the pulse of the street beat.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 9-08 6:42 AM
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MM plays Diplomacy on a custom board hand-drawn by David Simon, marked with the names of intersections in downtown Baltimore. His military units do not "mutually support"; they "big up".


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10- 9-08 7:39 AM
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Did Heebie email everyone else asking for their credit card number and social security number?


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10- 9-08 7:51 AM
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Just you, Will.


Posted by: Jesurgislac | Link to this comment | 10- 9-08 9:09 AM
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Heebie e-mailed everyone and asked them for your credit card and social security numbers, Will.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10- 9-08 9:12 AM
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The other thing to remember is that, should Theresa Nielsen Hayden show up, you should always assume she is mafia and kill her first.


Posted by: Malaclypse | Link to this comment | 10- 9-08 10:08 AM
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But Teresa Nielsen Hayden, Theresa's evil twin sister, is always a commoner.


Posted by: Jesurgislac | Link to this comment | 10- 9-08 10:42 AM
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83

A little late, but I would be up for playing a game of Tigris & Euphretes online with some unfogged folk.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 10- 9-08 12:03 PM
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