Re: Hail Mary

1

His own (i.e. McCain's) you-know-what? I would think the seated format of this third debate would be quite conducive to that sort of thing, though there's a very good chance the cameras would miss it.


Posted by: john s | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 5:41 PM
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Obama will be cruising, having it all wrapped up, until he denounces slut shaming.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 6:18 PM
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Should be more of the same.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 6:22 PM
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I'm hoping that McCain points out the Obama chose to live near where Elijah Muhammed established the headquarters of the Nation of Islam and the Fruit of Islam. Also that he's associated with the school that produced Leopold & Loeb, noted racialists, eugenicists, and child killers. And that Mata Hari, famous German spy, performed very near where Obama taught. Spies, Fruits, and child killers, Obama's neighborhood has them all.


Posted by: Michael H Schneider | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 6:23 PM
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Will McCain go vicious? What rabbit will he try to pull out of the hat?

If he doesn't try something, he's throwing in the towel, which is the most decent thing he could do at this point.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 6:24 PM
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5: I will vote for him if he pulls an actual rabbit out of a hat.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 6:26 PM
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Twice, if he pulls a hat out of a rabbit.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 6:27 PM
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If the archangel Gabriel shows up, all bets are off.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 6:29 PM
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7: VOTER FRAUD


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 6:36 PM
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What if Obama stages a terrorist attack at the debate? Then McCain will be proven right!


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 6:40 PM
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"Hey, Rocky! Watch me pull a rabbit out of this hat!"

"Again? That trick never works."


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 6:41 PM
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9: you got it all wrong! Once for me, once for the rabbit.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 6:43 PM
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Wow, McCain's floundering already. Hurting and angry, hurting and angry, and angry, and angry.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 6:59 PM
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Is this thing being streamed on line anywhere?


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 6:59 PM
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And . . . McCain leads with "the dark people made the monies go away." OK, he didn't say exactly that, but he did say that everything was caused by Fannie and Freddie.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:00 PM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:01 PM
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Cnn.com, Spike.

I think Obama's started smoking again.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:01 PM
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Never mind, I found it on Hulu.com. I didn't see it at first because they are promoting "Fringe" on the front page instead of the debate...


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:01 PM
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There was an Onion headline at some point about an election that wasn't close enough to steal. That's what we need to shoot for.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:01 PM
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17: I cannot imagine running for president and not smoking.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:02 PM
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I didn't see it at first because they are promoting "Fringe" on the front page instead of the debate...

Man, I've tried to watch that show, because Pacey's in it, but it's really stupid.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:02 PM
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20: Hell, I'm smoking. I'm not even running.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:03 PM
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My heart bleeds for Joe the Plumber.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:04 PM
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Poor Joe. Life is so rough for him.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:04 PM
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Poor Joe the Plumber. A man without a last name.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:05 PM
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Silly McCain, nobody has any wealth any more to spread around.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:05 PM
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Obama's gonna take Joe's munny!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:06 PM
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Obama is taking Joe's money! No Barry! Noooo!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:06 PM
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Class warfare!


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:07 PM
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25: I was just about to ask why they don't refer to him by his name.

Class Warfare! McCain seems desperate. These are old lines.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:07 PM
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"I'll raise taxes on you, McCain. Maybe you'll have to sell one of your 7 houses or 13 cars, you big baby".


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:07 PM
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I really wish obama would point out that 'small business owners' don't need a tax cut to employ people; they need access to credit.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:07 PM
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Peace-of-shit Schlieffer is talking austerity again.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:08 PM
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Peace-of-shit Schlieffer is talking austerity again.

If the little people don't suffer, how will the Washington Post and CBS News ever feel good about America again? Next up: Fix the Social Security crisis!


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:09 PM
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Peace-of-shit Schlieffer is talking austerity again.

And so is Obama.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:09 PM
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Talk about the war, O.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:09 PM
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33: All the TV pundits are talking austerity. It's totally freaking me out, especially since MA is about to slash its budget.

"go through the budget line by line". That line drives me crazy.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:10 PM
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I had a non-date scheduled for tonight, and I would like you to know that you all are my non-date, since my non-date fell ill (or freaked out, or both).


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:11 PM
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$700B dollars to people who want to get their lulz hurting our feelins. Noes!


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:12 PM
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These people repeat balanced budget cliches they learned in their childhood from their demented grannies. No one's believed that since Eisenhower.

Energy independence cut waste and pok barrel.

EARMARKS.

Bush=LBJ!

"I know how to save mystery money"


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:12 PM
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We promise to totally not hit on you, AWB.

Also, I've decided to stop caring about the focus group graphs, because it's down to about a dozen morons in Ohio.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:12 PM
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Never mind, I found it on Hulu.com.

Yeah but it doesn't give you the split screen.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:12 PM
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I've already blown out of the room with the TV. I cannot listen to that fucker. Post reassuring stuff.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:13 PM
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Overhead FUCKING projector, y'all.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:14 PM
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Treat AWB with respect, guys, and ignore her lewd advances.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:14 PM
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Are there any poll results that McCain's consistent refrain that he "knows how to do X" reflect poorly? He's been in the Senate for, what, 20+ years, and a Republican leader for nearly as long -- couldn't he have done more to effect these changes sometime in the last 30 some years?


Posted by: BooBoo | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:14 PM
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I'm not watching this debate, just listening to it on the radio. McCain sounds a bit desperate, angry, projecting disgust. Interesting. Obama by contrast very sober, professorial.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:14 PM
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I love that Obama refuses to respond to this dumbass overhead projector line.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:15 PM
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Obama needs Neel to translate the national debt into concrete terms. Big numbers make me dizzy. How many turnips is 5 trillion dollars?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:15 PM
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That $3 million overhead projector deal is a rippoff. You could buy an overhead projector down at staples for like $200.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:15 PM
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McCain: "if you wanted to run against bush, you should have run four years ago".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:15 PM
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Euh. McCain is so gross. "You shoulda run four years ago."


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:16 PM
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Where is dsquared with his trademark glee?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:16 PM
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Hurtin' and angry!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:16 PM
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I'm going to ignore this debate by listening to Unfunkked 8 until I have to put on pants and go to writers' group, where I'll ignore it some more.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:17 PM
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Our political process is totally driven by fraud and kabuki. This balanced budget shit is as stupid as the flag burning shit.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:17 PM
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Also, I've decided to stop caring about the focus group graphs, because it's down to about a dozen morons in Ohio.

* cries, goes to fridge for more beer *


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:17 PM
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Dsq. announced his elsewhere-being elsewhere.

McCain showed independence on torture? When it counted?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:18 PM
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Pardon me, I believe you mean "goes to fridge for MORON beer".


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:18 PM
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Dsquared went to bed, the motherfucker.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:19 PM
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57: I'm gonna get pretty crunk tonight, alone.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:19 PM
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There was an Onion headline at some point about an election that wasn't close enough to steal.

This classic work of psephology is one citation.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:19 PM
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Here comes the Ayer-bomb! Duck!


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:19 PM
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The CNN crawl really likes McCain.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:19 PM
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Obama says "erratic", McCain says "he's a terrorist"!

Exactly the same!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:19 PM
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OMG, did McCain just say he "vigorously opposed" the Iraq war????


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:19 PM
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Parity bullshit on negative politics.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:20 PM
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We promise to totally not hit on you, AWB.

I promise nothing of the sort. I'm totally trying to get my hand up AWB's skirt. Right now.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:20 PM
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Ah, interesting, Obama counters McCain's bullshit claims about his senatorial votes: even Fox News notes that your claims about my positions aren't accurate (or words to that effect).

McCain says: Sen. Obama, your argument isn't very convincing.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:20 PM
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I don't see why standing up to your party is supposed to be a big deal for obama


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:20 PM
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McCain began his attack ads because Obama wouldn't agree to town halls, apparently.


Posted by: BooBoo | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:20 PM
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Dsq. announced his elsewhere-being elsewhere.

Curses. I hope someone will still provide me with an occasional delighted tracker update.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:20 PM
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65: And it's b/c Obama took his football and went home regarding town hall meetings!

Right, great, I'm going to cook some pork belly.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:20 PM
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68: I am yours. That is my sensitive place!

Also: AYERS!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:21 PM
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Poor widdle Johnny!


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:21 PM
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O M G McCain is SUCH a fucking hypocrite.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:21 PM
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Parity bullshit on negative politics.

I really didn't believe that McCain would bring up the Town Hall Meetings excuse again.

John Lewis is a Communist Nazi, you know. McCain regrets that he admired him so much up until a month or two ago.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:21 PM
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Dsquared went to bed, the motherfucker.

What?? I was counting on his CNN viewer crawl commentary! That's why I don't need to watch!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:22 PM
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76: Golly you said it. UGH.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:22 PM
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57: If it helps, I'd consider the undecided voters morons even if they weren't from Stupidia Ohio.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:22 PM
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We all miss dsquared's dialler enthusiasm. Who will point out the notches of death to us?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:23 PM
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Say the Ayers shit to his face, loser.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:24 PM
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The undecided Ohio women still luuuuuurve Obama.


Posted by: Mrs. TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:24 PM
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This crowd of people on the twiddle knobs is a very different crowd than the previous debates.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:24 PM
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While Obama was living it up not having a dozen town hall meetings, John McCain was being TORTURED FOR HIS COUNTRY. What else could he do but run attack ads, under the circumstances?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:24 PM
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74: Woo hoo! It may be only because you're on your way to crunk, but I'll take it.

I could not watch McCain smirk and interrupt for another minute. Tell me when it's over. I'll have my nose behind AWB's ear.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:24 PM
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You're misrepresenting my positions, that's why it's ok for me to call you a terrorist!


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:25 PM
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"I don't mind being attacked for the next three weeks" is a great line.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:25 PM
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"Attack ad on my health care plan". His health care plan is his preteen daughter who shouldn't be subjected to this kind of thing. Attacking it is gutter politics.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:25 PM
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Aw, shit. "Terrorist, kill him." Way to bring this shit up, man.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:27 PM
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Good fucking grief. Since when is arguing about who's running which ads, costing how much, relevant material for a freaking presidential debate?

What's the format for this debate, anyway?

Oh my. Obama: "We have to be careful about how we deal with our supporters."

I like this guy.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:27 PM
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86: Goddamn, girl! You know about ears, too?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:28 PM
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Attacking McCain supporters is attacking the troops!


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:28 PM
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To imply that military wives for McCain are not patriotic is something up with which McCain will not put!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:28 PM
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Say terrorist, bitch! SAY IT!


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:28 PM
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"Those vetrans who wear those hats"


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:28 PM
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Yeah WTF is up with veterans with hats?

Can these questions get any more useless?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:29 PM
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I'm going to ignore this debate by listening to Unfunkked 8 until I have to put on pants and go to writers' group, where I'll ignore it some more.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:30 PM
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OH YEAH! Uhhhh..


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:30 PM
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McCain is all interrupty tonight.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:30 PM
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The split screen is *brutal* on McCain.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:30 PM
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Bob Schieffer is a douche.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:30 PM
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Getting my debate via Unfogged liveblogging is kind of wonderfully gnomic.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:30 PM
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I'm just turning this on, and, uh, is my TV screwed up, or does it look like McCain has bright pink lipstick smeared around his mouth and funny eye makeup?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:30 PM
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McCain is willing to stink up the place. No choice, I guess.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:30 PM
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ACORN IS GOING TO DESTROY THE FABRIC OF DEMOCRACY.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:31 PM
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Obama: What we can't do is characterize each other as bad people.

McCain: blah blah We need to know the full blah blah Ayers blah blah need to be examined.

Fuck you McCain.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:31 PM
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Destroying! The fabric! Of democracy!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:31 PM
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Can these questions get any more useless?

Bob Schieffer wrote 'em.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:31 PM
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destroying the frabic of dmocracy? wow


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:31 PM
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Tell me if at any time, Obama pauses for a long time after McCain says something, and then just says, "You okay there? You want a glass of water?"


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:32 PM
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What fabric is democracy? Cotton? Nylon?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:33 PM
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Getting my debate via Unfogged liveblogging is kind of wonderfully gnomic.

The getting isn't gnomic. The scraps of reportage are.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:33 PM
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Is it just me, or Obama destroying the Ayers thing?


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:33 PM
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They're going to get a stain on the blue fabric of democracy.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:33 PM
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Ai could produce stupider questions, if it were only unleashed. But the Luddite networks are afraid of the future.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:33 PM
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DIALLERS GOING DOOOWWWN as McCain natters on.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:34 PM
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wow, that was awful.


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:34 PM
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CNN's live feed is touchy. I'm experiencing anxiety. Hold me, wrenae.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:34 PM
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The split screen is *brutal* on McCain.

More commentary like this please, since I'm not watching.

Meanwhile they're really beginning to sound like they're just bitching at each other.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:34 PM
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My campaign is about getting the economy back on track, whereas Obama's campaign is about supporting terrorists. Issues!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:34 PM
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AI I mean.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:35 PM
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Soon enough there isn't going to be any more room in the tank.


Posted by: lurky lou | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:35 PM
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Dude, next debate should be sponsored by Cyberdyne Systems.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:35 PM
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Joe Bidin', comin' from Scrantin', fightin' for dropped "g"s everywhere.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:36 PM
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Obama is droppin' his fuckin' Ns.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:36 PM
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I thought that Ayers stuff was going on for too long. Obama did a good job with that.

"Destroying the fabric of democracy." Wow, indeed. Who knew that Acorn was so powerful?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:36 PM
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Coming into the debate late without having had any drinks is just no fun. I'm tempted to turn it off.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:37 PM
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She's not my fucking role model.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:37 PM
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Least corrupt major Republican in Alaska! Wooooooeeeeee!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:37 PM
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Has McCain always stored food for the winter in his cheeks?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:37 PM
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McCain should not use the term "old boy network"


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:37 PM
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When you scrupulously follow the law and refuse to destroy completed voter registrations, America dissolves. It's America's Kryptonite. We were kind of hoping no one would find out, but now you know!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:38 PM
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Fucking Ohio men eat this shit up. Why do we keep putting the fate of our country in their hands?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:38 PM
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"Gs", I mean. How can I ever live this down.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:38 PM
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Reform, maverick.

Special needs families. Didn't she just cut funding for the disabled in Alaska?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:38 PM
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129: Sure. I bet you're trying to have a TA fired right now.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:39 PM
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Fucking Ohio men eat this shit up. Why do we keep putting the fate of our country in their hands?

You're swayed by our delicious buckeyes.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:39 PM
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I thought Obama was destroying McCain until he dignified the Ayers crap with a response. Now I'm making my peace with President McCain.

(I'm kidding, Sifu! Don't get angry!)


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:39 PM
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Autism has always existed, asshole.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:39 PM
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131 - Wonkette's nicknamed him "Walnuts," following a viral web video.


Posted by: BooBoo | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:39 PM
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Joe Biden voted against Gulf War I? Good for him!


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:39 PM
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Okay, Biden's Iraq plan was kind of nuts.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:40 PM
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Cockamamie! 'Cause Iraq has been the same size and shape since Jesus made the Earth 4000 years ago.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:40 PM
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131- That's how he survived as a POW.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:40 PM
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McCain as Dramatic Chipmunk...DA DUN!


Posted by: Mrs. TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:41 PM
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I wish that Obama would just come right out and declare that he's open-minded and reasonable about a new holocaust. He missed his chance when he had it. Why should the taxpayers be hemmed in by the stultified ideologies of the past?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:41 PM
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I think we actually import 100% of our foreign oil, Bob.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:41 PM
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Lets import less of our foreign oil!


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:42 PM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:42 PM
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Senator Obama is like those crazy enviros, he says nuclear energy should be safe! I say iodine tablets for all!


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:42 PM
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I bet you're trying to have a TA fired right now.

No chicks hotter than me can teach in the German department!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:42 PM
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Why the hell should we stop importing Venezuelan oil when we have some of the only refiners that can deal with the heavy crude they pull out of it? We probably get the best deal on that stuff, since they can't really supply it to too many other places.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:43 PM
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There are no chicks hotter than you, Blume.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:44 PM
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McCain is a Turing failure. He's just got these word chunks lined up to throw when he thinks they might be relevant.

Obama does that too, alas. His chunks are less clunky and nubbly, though.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:44 PM
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Not like oils a fungible commodity or anything.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:45 PM
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Yay! Danger of ethics violations on my part averted!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:45 PM
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I'm melting! melting! Oh, what a world! What a world! Who would have thought a mere community group like ACORN could destroy my beautiful cohesiveness? Oooooh, look out! I'm going! Oooooh! Ooooooh!


Posted by: The Fabric of Democracy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:46 PM
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154 gets it exactly right.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:46 PM
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Venezuelan oil is tainted by chavezisimol, a dangerously authoritarian additive that will beat the ever-living shit out of your car's engine and institute land reforms.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:46 PM
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McCain keeps doing that weird sucky lizard thing with his tongue.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:46 PM
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I'm imagining ACORN as a green puddle now.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:47 PM
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Senator Obama who has never travelled south of our border.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:47 PM
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McCain is trying to make up for all 10 of those missing townhalls at once. "ACORN Ayers free trade nuclear travel south drugs killing our kids!"


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:47 PM
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161: Yes. So creepy.


Posted by: Mrs. TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:47 PM
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119: Oh, babydoll, have another drink and put your feet in my lap. Let's turn this tv down and put on some music. It'll be okay.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:47 PM
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Free trade with Columbia is hugely popular in Ohio and Indiana, right?


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:47 PM
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I think that the tariff on Colombian drugs should be eliminated. Point, McCain. Tweakers and decrepit people on Medicare will both benefit.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:47 PM
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WTF. Obama delivers an absorbing few paragraphs on energy and trade, and McCain says, "yes, you're very eloquent."

McCain's got his marks, or chops, or whatever, up to par, I'm afraid.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:48 PM
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Man, it'll be so impressive when that stupid-ass trip to Colombia ends up winning the election for McCain.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:48 PM
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||

I can't believe you people are watching this nonsense.

Meanwhile, Rafael Furcalk commits two errors on one play, Phillies up 4-0, bases loaded in the 5th!

|>


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:48 PM
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Things that should have gone away very recently:

Talk about having to cut spending to reduce deficit.
Any concern of spreading wealth down.


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:48 PM
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Spain south of our border, Senator McCain?


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:48 PM
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McCain looked so offended when Obama said that labor leaders are being targeted in Columbia.

Now we're arguing about the Peruvian free trade agreement. Obama is going to bore his way to total victory.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:49 PM
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NOTCH OF DOOOOOM!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:50 PM
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172: neo-Hooverism is the hip new bag! Give it a whirl, daddy-o!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:50 PM
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Colombia: our best ally. Who knew?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:50 PM
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There's a real battle of the sexes going on in the crawl. Men like McCain, women like Obama.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:50 PM
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Fucking Schleifer. Austerity. Put him on the Broder list.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:51 PM
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Boy, I really hope he guess their ages correctly (or at least undershot)


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:51 PM
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I can still hear them through the door. Who will rid me of these troublesome political junkies in my house who insist on watching?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:51 PM
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Visits visits visits. McCain always wants Obama to visit places. And then it's like he's surprised that Obama has an informed opinion about them despite not having been there.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:51 PM
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Has Obama gotten the last word on one of these exchanges yet?


Posted by: dob | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:51 PM
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should we cover people, or put some doctors out of work?


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:51 PM
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Obama is going to bore his way to total victory.

McCain's got the 65+ demographic locked. If we can make them nap through Nov. 4, we have this in the bag.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:52 PM
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Diallers off the charts for Barry on health care.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:52 PM
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It is amazing how the Republicans prefer to run stupid, uninformed, misinformed people.

McCain is tossing out more clusters of words.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:53 PM
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Women eating O's health care shit up. Even mean are coming over.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:53 PM
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Obama is at such a disadvantage. He seems to try to answer so many of the questions, rather than just repeating his stump lines. Though he of course does that too.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:53 PM
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Obama is going to bore his way to total victory.

OBAMA IS NOT BORING. HE'S PROFESSORIAL. HE IS ALSO VERY SEXY.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:54 PM
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God, McCain just sucks this debate. I thought McCain won the last two debates, so I'm sure the post-debate polls will reveal total McCain victory.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:54 PM
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How you gonna open health clinics with a spending freeze, dickhead?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:54 PM
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Oh, my friends!


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:54 PM
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We should choose a President based on what's best for Joe the fucking plumber.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:54 PM
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Undecided Ohio women are sick of hearing about Joe the Plumber.


Posted by: Mrs. TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:54 PM
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Why are Obama and McCain going on and on about The Plumbers? Didn't we get enough with the Weathermen?


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:56 PM
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Did McCain just tell Obama, "You're supposed to say 'Excuse me.'" That's right, show some respect, Boy!
Meanwhile, McCain looks shocked that Joe's penalty is 0.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:56 PM
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I'm happy to talk to Jo. Where are you ?

Barry is serene tonight.


Posted by: Econolicious | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:56 PM
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I love how shocked mccain is that he doesn't understand the part of obama's plan he was demagoging.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:56 PM
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"Here's your fine, Joe: zero."


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:56 PM
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Fuck. McCain is finetuning American healthcare. Soon he's going to tell us to brush and floss.

Joe the Plumber. I bet he's the guy that says he will come and then comes three days late, and overbills you too. Obama should tap into the resentment of plumbers.

I DO love Canada! Yay Ari! Yay MC!

Obama knows what his own proposals are, and also knows what McCain's proposals are. Isn't that cheating?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:56 PM
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HE IS ALSO VERY SEXY.

I replaced the groty leech picture on Leechblock with a lovely picture of Obama lounging in a chair.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:56 PM
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There's a real battle of the sexes going on in the crawl. Men like McCain, women like Obama.

That was clearly the case in the last (second) debate as well.

Someday we, that is people, might try to talk about that.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:56 PM
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TJ decoded the secret message. "Joe the Plumber" is G. Gordon Liddy.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:56 PM
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183: Has Obama gotten the last word on one of these exchanges yet?

I noticed that in the bits I've watched, McCain gets to start and finish. My wife is complaining about it as well. Schieffer is kind of a Sub-Broder Class 2-A—mildly annoying conventional windbags without an idea of their own who think their shit doesn't stink.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:58 PM
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Among the 9-year-old demographic, this is coming down to a race between the rodent faced guy and the guy with the Jimmy Neutron/ice cream cone head.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:58 PM
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What the fuck is McCain talking about? He just started talking about something from an hour ago.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:58 PM
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192: I love it when you call McCain names, AWB!

But you've gotten excited and spilled beer on your shirt. Why don't you take it off so I can wash it?


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:58 PM
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Wow, John McCain is so snotty.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:59 PM
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"Joe" is the hypothetical person in the audience who might actually vote for mccain. he is very carefully constructed.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:59 PM
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Or, "He looks like a frilled lizard trying to scare Obama off."


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:59 PM
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I haven't spilled yet, wrenae, but this debate is getting me rather hot under my collar, and I'm considering it.

Whoops!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:59 PM
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McCain: the rambliest.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 7:59 PM
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Senator Government!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:00 PM
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I love it when AWB takes her shirt off.


Posted by: tonkelu | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:00 PM
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I'm increasingly confident that an anti-plumber answer would be a real killer. Plumbers are a small demographic, and even if Ohioans are plumber-like people, most of them aren't plumbers, and they're a little touchy about people who assume that they are.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:00 PM
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More unraveling. Lots of fabric-based analogies from the candidates.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:00 PM
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At least, Schiefer pointed out that McCain is anti-choice. However, it's the perennial "no litmus test" answer.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:01 PM
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I use litmus paper to evaluate judges; I make sure they are acidic before I vote for them.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:02 PM
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Ginsburg! Moment of happiness!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:02 PM
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Senator Government was in the Senate when Breyer was nominated?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:02 PM
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McCain will appoint the BEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD! to the Supreme Court.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:03 PM
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I think tonkelu speaks for all of us.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:03 PM
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Ideological stances about justices are pretty much the stances any sane person would have.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:03 PM
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The Naughty Tale of the Scamp Wrenae is delighting me.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:03 PM
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The "litmus test" question is stooooopid.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:03 PM
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223: She's got fabulous boobings.

224: One would hope.


Posted by: tonkelu | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:04 PM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:04 PM
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Basic is blue, acidic is red. Vote Basic!
All those caustic chemicals will cause an unravelling of the fabric of our courts.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:04 PM
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The kabuki / fraud aspect is bugging me again.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:04 PM
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Whoa, what's that? McCain on Roe v. Wade, at the very end there, that he wouldn't ... what did he say? Wouldn't look to jurists who inclined in that direction (paraphrasing, obviously).


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:05 PM
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My boobings are gerunds because of what they do.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:05 PM
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If I was anti-choice, I'd be pissed about McCain's no-litmus-test answer.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:05 PM
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Also the dream of women everywhere, equal pay for equal work, senator.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:06 PM
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Oh hell. Here we go.


Posted by: tonkelu | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:06 PM
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Notch of doom! As soon as McCain started talking dive!dive!dive!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:06 PM
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Obama has the baby-killer vote in the bag.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:06 PM
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Why a "young" woman?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:06 PM
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Wow, lordy. I thought you just said 'clear cut' but were confused how you voted present.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:07 PM
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Just what I just said, AWB.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:07 PM
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I've got a comfy robe you can put on right here. It's so soft, and not really too short for you at all. I mean, it's very flattering.

These overhead lights are causing a glare on the tv. Do you mind if I turn them down? I prefer theater lighting anyway, maybe a candle or two.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:08 PM
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Young women are so much hotter, AWB.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:08 PM
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Which news site has streaming video of the wrenae/AWB cam?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:08 PM
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I was about to comment that there was no way he could explain that vote in a 30 second sound bite. Then I looked at the graph thingy.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:08 PM
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Wasn't McCain's answer: "No litmus test, but I'd never appoint a pro-choice justice"?


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:08 PM
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Ooh, did Obama just lose AWB?


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:09 PM
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241: When this debate's over, let's make a baby, and then abort it.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:09 PM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:09 PM
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Wrenae's going to be pimping her PPV soon. Don't click on it. Wrenae's production values are crap.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:09 PM
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I replaced the groty leech picture on Leechblock with a lovely picture of Obama lounging in a chair.

Since I'm no longer watching the debate even though I long to hear that Obama tore McCain's hurt widdle feelings to shreds, I would like to comment that this is a sweet button.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:10 PM
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"Health" of the mother. I mean, who gives a crap about that...


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:10 PM
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I'm glad that Obama didn't agree to the frame that partial-birth abortion is bad. He said, "late term."


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:10 PM
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Anyone notice how HUGE McCain's pupils are? He's either completely high or terribly livid.


Posted by: tonkelu | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:10 PM
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"Sexuality is sacred"? Jesus Christ.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:10 PM
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Schleifer has given the last word to McCain for every segment except one.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:10 PM
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I wish Obama would say instead of keeping young men and women from being "cavalier" about sexual activity, that he wants to keep them from being mavericky about sexual activity.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:10 PM
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If I'm anti-choice, I want a litmus-test, dammit.

Barry weaseled on that one too.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:11 PM
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Jesus (not you, babe), I hate McCain's rhetoric and maneuvers: alluding again to Obama's eloquence -- he's a fancy talker --

Is the site here slow just for me, by the way?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:11 PM
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I kind of can't believe I'm saying this, but McCain's huffing and sighing is really irritating.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:11 PM
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After 8 years ob Bush, eloquence is now a four-letter word.


Posted by: Econolicious | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:12 PM
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It's funny that someone would put that much effort into being noise in a system.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:12 PM
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You know what's infuriating? I can't upgrade to the new version of ghc because gentoo is a little bitch.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:12 PM
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Schleifer has given the last word to McCain for every segment except one.

Really?!?!?

How many segments is that?

That is unbelievably unfair.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:12 PM
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Anyone notice how HUGE McCain's pupils are? He's either completely high or terribly livid.

Rory remarked on that a minute ago -- there's not white part to his eyes. It's contributing to our new, beady-eyed rodent theme.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:12 PM
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247: Baby, I will conceive, carry, and selectively abort your baby. That's how much I want you.

(Put that on a button, democratstuff.com.)


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:12 PM
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253: Or sexually aroused!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:12 PM
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Hey, basic science research pays well enough!


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:12 PM
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McCain is a moron.


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:13 PM
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Education is the civil rights of the 21st century? What. The. Fuck???


Posted by: tonkelu | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:13 PM
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The shout out to basic research got cheers in our apartment. I think he has San Francisco grad students locked up.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:13 PM
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268: Well sure, by Belgian standards.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:14 PM
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Wait: there is no question we've achieved equal access to education?


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:14 PM
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Dials sure plumeted when obama took on tv and videogames


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:14 PM
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Anyone notice how HUGE McCain's pupils are? He's either completely high or terribly livid.

Rory remarked on that a minute ago -- there's not white part to his eyes. It's contributing to our new, beady-eyed rodent theme.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:14 PM
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This thread is not exciting me.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:15 PM
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Can't reward teachers with a spending freeze, either, douchebag.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:15 PM
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Uh oh, the wife is swearing at McCain now because he's an idiot on education. If you were a soldier, we don't need to be sure you know how to teach, just give you a job.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:15 PM
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instead of keeping young men and women from being "cavalier" about sexual activity

Everyone in my room called it as an Ohio shout-out, since saying "By the way... LeBron James" would've been too obvious.

I still say Obama should finish the debate with "Giants suck" instead.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:15 PM
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266: You should see the size of my nipples pupils!


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:16 PM
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COLONEL MATH TEACHER SAYS DO YOUR HOMEWORK OR GIVE ME PUSH UPS


Posted by: OPINIONATED ARMY TEACHING GUY | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:17 PM
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275: Poor Benjamin. He doesn't just like to watch.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:17 PM
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I believe the children are the future. Teach them well...


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:17 PM
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Dials sure plumeted when obama took on tv and videogames

Well, of course: they're essentially playing a videogame, on TV.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:17 PM
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Sigh. I have things to do...I need to tear myself away. I want cake.


Posted by: ozma | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:18 PM
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279: Rather see AWB's. Oh wait. Already have.


Posted by: tonkelu | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:18 PM
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Oh the little bitch with the crimson lips goes
Cleveland rocks, Cleveland rocks


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:19 PM
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Anyone notice how HUGE McCain's pupils are? He's either completely high or terribly livid.

A dose of psilocibin would do the man a world of good. It's very useful in resolving traumas.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:19 PM
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262: "Gentoo"? Is that a Stevie Nicks reference?

Stevie Nicks is the world's most famous Welshlady, BTW. Take that, D^2.

Charlotte Church is making her move, though. She has a perfectly nice potty mouth, it seems.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:19 PM
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Belgians are smarter and ride bikes better than McCain.


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:19 PM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:19 PM
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Is McCain not aware that autism =/= Down Syndrome?


Posted by: Mrs. TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:19 PM
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Now she's mad because McCain equated autism and Down's.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:20 PM
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Is McCain not aware that autism =/= Down Syndrome?


Posted by: Mrs. TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:20 PM
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Oh the little bitch with the crimson lips goes
Cleveland rocks, Cleveland rocks


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:20 PM
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-- shorter McCain: nothing works. Government all sucks. We have to reform it all. --


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:20 PM
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285: They're so medium-sized!!

NO, McCain, tell us how you can invest money in "vouchers" (which people hate) without spending money.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:20 PM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:21 PM
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289 is dynamite stuff for the stump.


Posted by: Barack Obama | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:21 PM
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285: Her pupils are mostly younger city folk. I doubt they're particularly huge.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:21 PM
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Is McCain not aware that autism =/= Down Syndrome?


Posted by: Mrs. TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:21 PM
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Benjamin, we're all exciting ourselves here, with our hands in our pants.

Except Wrenae and AWB, I mean.

No one's going to do it for you, ben.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:21 PM
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He really can't stand not to have the last word, can he?


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:22 PM
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I'm honestly starting to fall asleep.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:22 PM
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Or does Sarah Palin have an autistic kid too?


Posted by: Mrs. TJ | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:22 PM
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This debate went by fast, didn't it?


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:23 PM
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Anyone notice how HUGE McCain's pupils are? He's either completely high or terribly livid.

A dose of psilocibin would do the man a world of good. It's very useful in resolving traumas.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:23 PM
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How many people here hate plumbers? Especially that piece of shit Joe.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:23 PM
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I'm honestly starting to fall asleep.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:24 PM
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And what's the deal with these peanut allergies? In my day nobody asked for special treatment and what do you know, nobody ever had so-called peanut allergies. We took responsibility for the food we ate, and we didn't force restaurants to accomodate our whims.


Posted by: John McCain | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:24 PM
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McCain is like the lanterne rouge.


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:24 PM
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Nastiest debate ever.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:24 PM
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302: What do you think the odds are that he'll lean into Obama's camera shot and say "Bill Ayers!" at the end?


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:24 PM
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McCain's farewell address just sounded well rehearsed.


Posted by: Econolicious | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:24 PM
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My video stream keeps freezing, and every time it does McCain looks completely terrified.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:25 PM
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"There's been a long line of McCains"? Were people doubting that you had ancestors?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:25 PM
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McCain is really awkward with the post-debate gesturing.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:27 PM
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McCain says, "Good job! Good job! Good job!"


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:27 PM
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311: Does somebody need a back rub?


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:27 PM
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"Go vote now. It'll make you feel big and strong." What is that supposed to suggest anyway. Vote, because it makes you feel good? Huh. What the hell is that supposed to mean. Schiefer's mom was weird.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:27 PM
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I thought McCain emerged fully formed from Vance Maverick's head.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:27 PM
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OK, I think Obama slaughtered and buried McCain tonight.

Now I'll finally get some numerical data on just how out of touch I am with the American people.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:27 PM
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And now the moron shit analysis. Broder! Brooks! Cokie!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:27 PM
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318: I do. Is there a sign-up sheet?


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:28 PM
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OK, I think Obama slaughtered and buried McCain tonight.

Obama was smart from the very beginning.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:29 PM
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Shit. I've got so much stuff to do. How and why did I waste that hour and a half on that.


Posted by: ozma | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:29 PM
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318: I do. Is there a sign-up sheet?


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:29 PM
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Annnd . . . we're looking at a 300+ EV Obama victory.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:29 PM
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Here's the hook: McCain Mocks Women's Health Concerns. Repeat. Rinse Repeat.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:30 PM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:31 PM
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327: God, I hope so, but don't count your chickens.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:31 PM
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The fucking conservative talking heads on CNN keep using "professorial" as an epithet. What the fuck?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:32 PM
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318: me too.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:32 PM
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Chris Matthews is saying that McCain's belittling of the health exception in abortion is going to get him.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:33 PM
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McCain Makes Light of Health Concerns of Pregnant Women.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:33 PM
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I wish that I'd caught Maddow/Buchanan instead of watching CNN.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:33 PM
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If 333 is correct, I anticipate feelers from McCain toward Hillary for VP.

CONTROL THE NEWS CYCLE


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:33 PM
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Brokaw, too. can't stand his face any more.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:34 PM
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I gotta say that Joe the Plumber's logo is pretty awesome.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:34 PM
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When is Hillary Clinton going to be on CNN? I need to go to bed.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:34 PM
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331: Seriously? I believe you, okay. I don't have to watch or listen to construct the narrative: potentially off-putting to the average voter. A lecturing tone, as though he thinks we're stupid. Etc.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:35 PM
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I just saw an Obama ad that ended with

"So as we borrow from China to fund his spending spree, ask yourself...can we afford John McCain?"

I wonder what spending spree was being referred to.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:36 PM
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A lecturing tone, as though he thinks we're stupid. Etc.

Except that's the thing about Obama: he manages to sound informed without lecturing. I can only conclude that by 'professorial' they are referring to his having lots of knowledge and being able to articulate it well.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:38 PM
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Glad that's over. Now I can upload my mix!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:41 PM
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Rope-a-dope John Lewis black people


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:41 PM
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All these duplicate posts are weird. Is it us or the site?

I missed d^2.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:41 PM
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Soledad was trying to get her panel to say they thought McCain won, but the panel very much thought Obama won.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:42 PM
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Seriously? I believe you, okay.

Actually not being serious, but your earnestness is touching. Just wanted to mock the talking heads.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:44 PM
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The McCain Scoffs at the Health Concerns of Pregnant Women Memorial Debate.

I hope they hammer the shit of that. Boil it down to one thing. The old guy doesn't get it. Fuck Joe the Plumber. Make the misogynistic bastard explain and clarify that one until the cows cows come home.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:44 PM
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342: Except that's the thing about Obama: he manages to sound informed without lecturing. I can only conclude that by 'professorial' they are referring to his having lots of knowledge and being able to articulate it well.

Right, which I assume is being cast as a negative, sadly. But the American people can tell the difference!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:46 PM
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Christ but McCain is seriously auditioning for the part of The Penguin in the next Batman movie. As William "papa needs a new cocktail before he rolls these dice" Bennett started to bloviate and Rah watched with calm intelligence, I'm afraid I leapt to my feet and shouted, "I can't believe these people get PAID," and stormed out of the room to hide. Civ IV is my only hope. My only, only hope. Why did I not drink? Why did I not just fucking drink? Gah, McCain makes me want to eat my own eyes so that I never have to look at that rictus-smile again.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:47 PM
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Mark Shields is a toad. David Brooks is a completely different toad. Brooks has picked up bipartisanship.

I'm shocked that TV coverage of the baseball playoffs wasn't cancelled for this debate.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:48 PM
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Gah, McCain makes me want to eat my own eyes so that I never have to look at that rictus-smile again.

Obama has a plan to help you!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:50 PM
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347: The earnestness blow. I am slain, and guilty. Also can't stand any more.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:50 PM
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At the signoff I imagined Brooks, Shields, Lehrer, and the other two being impaled while the starving hogs waited their treat,

Maybe I should forget about politics and go cosmic. Am I deteriorating day by day? Probably yes.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:51 PM
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Joe the Plumber is a union guy. He's fucking voting for Obama.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:54 PM
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If AWB isn't taking me up on the backrub, McManlypants is next in line. He's so tense he's evoking Greek tragedies.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:54 PM
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CBS poll of undecided voters:

Who won the debate?

McCain (R) 22
Obama (D) 53


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:55 PM
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Hillary did a nice job on CNN.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:55 PM
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I am here to tell you, though, we watched it on CNN and I only ever remember seeing Obama push their Patented Gender-War Full-Bore Insta-Score Head-Nod-o-Meter(tm) straight off the charts on the good side and I noticed a number of things it seemed like uncommitted women* really hated hearing come out of McCain's mouth.

Also, Christ, McCain is so fucking creepy. If he wins I have to start smoking again, I won't be able to take that shit on TV all the time.

*Rowr, as it were.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:55 PM
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Plumbers make over $250,000 a year? I'm in the wrong line of work.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:56 PM
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So we think McCain lost the first two debates by being boring and lost this one by being angry and hateful? At least he mixed it up.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:56 PM
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CNN has O: 58% M: 31%


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:57 PM
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CNN poll: Obama 58; McCain 31


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:57 PM
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356: I'm on the phone, but I'd love a backrub.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:58 PM
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Damn, shouldn't have taken time to spell out the names.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:58 PM
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McManlypants is next in line.

Girlfriend, I am there. Mainly it's just the hives I get when I watch McCain. There is something about him that is downright uncanny valley. He scares me. Bush made me angry but McCain is, like, Robert Englund's shorter, scarier cousin or some shit. A hatchet and a scalpel indeed for Joe the Plumber on Elm Street.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:59 PM
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CNN snap poll: 40% dem, 30% rep, 58% Obama wins, 31% McCain wins

Obama net favorability up, McCain net favorability down.

OK, I can go run now. The talking heads, who were saying good things about McCain, now are trying to figure out how to talk about an Obama win.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 8:59 PM
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Everyone in my room called it as an Ohio shout-out

Funny. I heard it as a Virginia shout-out. Two swing states at once!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:01 PM
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Pork belly braised with beet and turnip greens, with sweet jalapeƱo jelly and roasted baby beets and turnips, is good.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:01 PM
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McCain needs to fire whatever consultant is picking his ties.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:02 PM
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I wonder how they both decide to wear a striped or solid tie at the same time.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:04 PM
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I wonder how they both decide to wear a striped or solid tie at the same time.

Quantum shit.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:04 PM
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369: Now you're earning a back rub, Ben.

But AWB is first. I've already got her in a robe. Once I get the hot rocks out and the jazz CD on, I'll make my move.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:06 PM
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The talking heads, who were saying good things about McCain, now are trying to figure out how to talk about an Obama win.

Otto may be toying with me again, but I believe this as well. Fucking talking heads, for some reason I resist agreeing that they're that stupid, or in the bag, or what have you -- that much slaves to the word of the day -- but it's difficult to ignore the evidence.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:06 PM
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370: Seriously terrible, it's true.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:06 PM
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Now I'm remembering this freaky nightmare I had last night involving eerie clownish figures, and wondering if they were McCain.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:06 PM
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369: You're making me work to get that, ben, but okay. Different strokes.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:10 PM
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373: There's more, you know.

Wild pig belly. Crispy skin. Yum.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:13 PM
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371:
More importantly, was that the same tie that Obama wore for the acceptance speech? It's a great tie, but surely he can mix it up.


Posted by: JPool | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:14 PM
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Maybe its his lucky tie.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:18 PM
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the same tie that Obama wore for the acceptance speech? It's a great tie, but surely he can mix it up.

Dude, that speech was in August. How many ties do you think he owns?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:19 PM
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One for every white man he's killed.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:20 PM
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Fine, Ben, you're now the official caterer for the bacchanal. Now pay attention to the moves I'm putting on AWB, you might learn something.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:21 PM
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Ben that sounds like a mighty fine meal. It's 11:30 here and I still haven't eaten dinner. I hope you brought enough for the entire class.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:21 PM
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373: But I put my name on the list. I knew being a procedural liberal would bite me on the ass eventually.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:22 PM
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You're her third priority, Walt. Third out of millions of priorities. That's really high on the list. Just sit quietly.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:25 PM
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I just thought that debates and major speeches followed the red carpet rule.


Posted by: JPool | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:26 PM
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In a world more just, Obama would have said, "Perhaps Senator McCain should call Joe the Plumber for help. The McCain campaign is full of shit."


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:30 PM
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I wanted him to say "People with seven houses and fourteen cars will have tax increases under my program, John. Suck on that".


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:35 PM
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I wanted him to say, "It doesn't matter, John. I could name Bill Ayers Secretary of Education right here tonight, and I would still win by 8 points in November."


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:38 PM
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386: 4th priority, actually, after AWB, Robust, and Ben.

But I sense a certain vulnerability underneath your grumpy facade, Mr. Emerson. It makes me really want to rub your head, and release the tension around your temples. Just relax and murmur to me about your no relationship policy.

[Walt, I'm getting to you. Ben is at least offering food, and John's playing hard to get. What are you doing for me?]


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:39 PM
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Walt, offer Ben and John.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:40 PM
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WASHINGTON (AdAge.com) -- Major League Baseball has moved back the scheduled start time of any game 6 of the World Series so Fox can also air the half hour Barack Obama spot on Oct. 29.

Dammit, Obama, those games are on late enough. You didn't have to buy time on Fox, you know...


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:41 PM
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I was really hoping Obama would say, "I'm glad to hear that you'll vote to confirm all my nominations for the Supreme Court. I appreciate that."

__

Holy shit, the Nikkei and the Hang Seng are getting their asses kicked.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:49 PM
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393: if they've got a clue, they will cancel the Fox buy. Florida (sorry Tweety) & PA, dude, don't fuck with the World Series.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:50 PM
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This election is too important. The World Series will be cancelled. All the good teams are out anyway.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:52 PM
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Jesus (not you, babe)

Thanks, sweetie. I missed the whole damn thing, which I was all set to watch until shit happened. I'm pleased to have missed it, but I still want to see it, for science. Perhaps after I slip into something relaxing. Plus, I should see if anybody's still reading the food thread; I have to report back about the prune cake.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:52 PM
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LOL

Most recent response for "Nikkei" in Google News


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:53 PM
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Normal regularity.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:54 PM
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All the good teams are out anyway.

Hey! The Red Sox won't be eliminated until tomorrow.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 9:54 PM
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Dear Ms. Nurse Practitioner:

This is hard for me to say, because I'm very reserved, and morally and philosophically opposed to any kind of relationship, but ever since my prostate exam I think I've been in love with you. I know that you're married, but why should a silly little legal contract keep two destined souls apart? I know you feel the same way because of the special way you put your finger in.

Yours

*************

PS Don't deny yourself out Puritanism or false pride. Once in our life we each find that special someone, and that is now.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 10:02 PM
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Is the No-Relationship Policy unraveling before our eyes? I can't. Look. Away.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 10:07 PM
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You know, we lost ogged to a relationship; we can't afford to lose John, too.

Now I know how George and Ringo felt.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 10:09 PM
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398 is indeed very funny. Although I didn't, in fact, laugh out loud.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 10:10 PM
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Is the No-Relationship Policy unraveling before our eyes?

Does Acorn's sabotage of grand traditions truly know no bounds?


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 10:14 PM
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A couple general comments, then bed:

I wish Obama had stood up for ACORN.

I wish he had denounced NeoHooverism (something as simple as saying, "Herbert Hoover balanced the budget in 193x, John/Bob; it didn't work out so well.").

I agree with whoever said above that the "local control has served us well" is a stupid line. I know he's not running to revolutionize education, but does he have to say stupid shit like that?

Same deal with "litmus tests." I thought he was fine on the abortion bit (granting that he can't say, "I think abortion's fine, and gov't should stay the hell out of the way"), but his SCOTUS response was pretty bland and pointless. Ledbetter's a winning issue, but it didn't feel effective to me, nor on-point.

Same deal with "repudiate." I kind of wish he'd stood up a bit more for John Lewis: "He had his skull cracked open by a redneck sheriff when he was marching w/ MLK; I don't really feel I've earned the right to question his position on the subject of racism. Do you, John?"

I know that Obama's whole campaign is about slow and steady winning the race, and obviously he's doing great. But it scares the hell out of me that he implicitly accepts the rightwing framing almost every time (and yes, I get the whole Jedi/conflict resolution thing; I suspect that it works great for him, and may even get some decent laws passed, but won't help us at all when the next smooth-talking conservative comes along to destroy everything. Same deal as Clinton, basically).

OK, bed.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 10:26 PM
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Best debate sum up line I've seen:
"2/3 of the American people think [McCain is] an angry candidate, and for 90 minutes, he tried to convince the other third." - Tom Daschle

... oh, and McCain Mocks Pregnant Women


... and Broder's a dick.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 10:30 PM
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391: I'll eat Ben's food, thus throwing myself on the grenade. John's playing hard-to-get is a self-solving problem.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 10:39 PM
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"I'm not in favor of abortion in every case, Bob. I'm just saying that every pregnant woman should think long and hard about the reasons why she thinks she wants to have a baby.

And I know you didn't ask about this specifically, Bob, but it's really time to start thinking coolly and rationally about a new Holocaust, rather than just automatically dismissing the idea in a partisan way. With new, fresh thinking perhaps we can come to a compromise on this question.

Also, is Osama really that bad a guy? Maybe he had his reasons."


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 10:39 PM
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Christ, Obama crushed McCain in every debate poll.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 10:43 PM
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406 is funny.

He already knows you're going to vote for him, JRoth.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 10:47 PM
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What I find interesting about Obama as a debater is that he sounds like every Democratic Presidential candidate ever: calm, well-prepared, full of specific proposals. I could see him giving Dukakis' notorious death penalty answer in 1988. And yet for him it translates into decisive victory.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 10:53 PM
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Economy's in the shitter, Walt.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 11:06 PM
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412: Cause he's cool.

Every presidential campaign is a contest of masculinities. Obama debuts negritude into that contest. People try to gin up racist fear, but he's not playing the right kind of black male for their purposes: he's not angry, he's cool.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 11:08 PM
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413 is probably a more germane answer.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 11:09 PM
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413: Sure, if you're a bloated plutocrat who subsists on your ill-gotten stock market gains. But as John McCain says, America has the hardest working people in the world; banks and a functioning financial system are the kind of outdated big-government Washington thinking that have gotten us into this mess.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 11:11 PM
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416: and so I am.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 11:19 PM
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Obama won, despite hardly even bothering to go after McCain. The punditariat just want to keep the race alive. McCain is just unacceptably old and crazy and curmudgeonly, my friends.

But I find Obama's caution and....well, not conservatism, but establishmentarianism, or something...to be frustrating. As Walt said in 412, he sounds like a generic Democratic candidate. The reason is that every single one of his proposals is right down the middle of the Democratic agenda for the past ten years, fully endorsed by the mainstream of the Democratic establishment for ages now. There's not a strong risk in any of it. Which would be OK for domestic policy (it's a disaster for foreign policy, but let's not go there), they are good and needed proposals and I don't fetishize the new. But the current economic situation does call for something new, McCain's mortgage buyout proposal actually gets more effectively to the heart of the crisis than anything Obama has said. I'm sure Obama is just running out the clock and preserving his freedom of action. But I wish there was *something* in his rhetoric or his record that convinced me he'd be willing to buck the establishment and take a substantial risk, something that showed me he understood that the Realignment Is Happening and Democrats can be aggressive in support of their principles.

Not saying he should be...ummmm...a maverick, which is a meaningless term McCain has chosen to try to make his erratic veering all over the political map seem like some sort of consistent principle. Just understand it's time for the Democrats to come out of the DLC cringe and take real responsibility, not timidly take a few steps closer to the center than the Republicans do. Because there's crazy shit going down and there's gonna have to be some bold thinking to address it.

Anyway, we'll find out soon enough how he'll do as President. I'm canvassing in VA for him this weekend, gave him a lot of money too, to help him blanket the country with "negative ads". God, I couldn't believe he was letting McCain and Schiefer characterize true attacks on McCain's health policies as "negative ads" along the same lines as the "terrorist" crap.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 11:22 PM
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You're not bloated, Sifu. You're just big boned, financially speaking.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 11:22 PM
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PGD you wacky centrist TV pundit, you.

419: no offense taken; it's genetic, or at least inherited.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 11:25 PM
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I'm canvassing in VA

Woo! Meetup! (Caution: Will hates beer.)


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 11:28 PM
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Seems like at this point we're all at least somewhat boned, financially speaking.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 11:32 PM
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WTF, Sifu, that was far from centrist. I could no longer even dream of being a TV pundit because I start uncontrollably yelling obscenities whenever someone suggests NATO membership for Georgia.

There's a particular well-vetted set of approved Democratic policies that came out of the late Clinton/early Bush years, it completely defined both Hillary and Obama's platforms, I really hope Obama can step outside that particular box.

The centrist TV pundit idea of boldness is to demand both candidates do the responsible thing and pledge to cut Federal spending sharply in the middle of a recession.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 11:34 PM
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Woo! Meetup! (Caution: Will hates beer.)

I think I'll be in Northern VA, you're down south-central, right? Is Will? But a meetup is still a good idea, I'm going to try to get down to the Shenandoah to hike before the leaves fall.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 11:37 PM
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I know we shouldn't respond to that crap, but "quasi-Jacobin frat boy trash" is sort of brilliant.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 11:38 PM
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424: Yeah, Will and I are in Central Virginia. I'll actually be in the DC area on Sunday, though. And Shenandoah's gorgeous right now. I just spent a few days near Luray. Email stanley at [the unfogged domain] if you want to try to set something up.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 11:42 PM
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QJFBT is quite evocative. In fact, I thought of bob Mcmanus when I saw that epithet, it's the kind of thing he would say.

and his appearances here have gone way down since the ToS started T-ing S-fully....


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10-15-08 11:43 PM
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Apart from the usual suspects, you know who else is crying into his beer these days? Harold Ford. Not too long ago, he was going to be the first black President of the U.S.A. Now he's just the head of an increasingly irrelevant talk shop.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 2:34 AM
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He already knows you're going to vote for him, JRoth.

He already knows most Americans are going to vote for him. The question is whether he's going to take office in a position of rhetorical strength - in which, for instance, he's spent 3 months explaining that "austerity" is the stupidest idea possible right now - or in a rhetorical crouch - 'well, of course conservatives are fundamentally correct in their critique, but let me explain why, in my special case, liberal progressive Democratic benignly centrist solutions aren't completely wrong.'

I'm praying that the 30 minute ads will be a sort of pre-inaugural address. If it's just a straight-to-the-camera version of his stump, then it's a big waste of money.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 5:34 AM
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This morning my wife says the more she thought about it, the more annoyed she was by McCain saying "I'm proud of her" in response to the Sarah Palin question. It had not struck me at the time, but in retrospect the way he said it was rather condescending, and rather redolent of male privilege. I am trying to imagine in what circumstances it would be used in that way about a male running mate, and all of them involve someone gamely punching above their weight. A quibble or yet another glimpse into the blackened, misogynistic soul of McCain?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 5:46 AM
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It occurred to me last night that if snap polls and the NOTCH OF DOOM had been used in 2000, we'd probably have been getting disappointed by President Gore for the last few years.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 5:49 AM
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431: Nah,they would have just revealed that the lurkers supported the pundits in e-mail.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 5:57 AM
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430: God, if Palin isn't punching above her weight I'd like to see someone who is.* If McCain had picked Joe Plumber and he'd performed like Palin, McCain would be saying the same thing.

*Assuming that means what I think it means. Totally out of her league?


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:00 AM
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431: This is surely true and something that has been showing up a lot after each debate. The snap pools don't allow the pundits to call the debates as they see them and intone importantly on the well-understood opinions of the common man. The CNN panel who had largely been crowing about the bang-up job McCain did had all the wind go out of their sails as soon as the snap poll and live focus group info came in.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:06 AM
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428: I always think this when I see Harold. It clouds his judgment sometimes, too, I think. He pronounced McCain's cottage-cheese-and-lime-jello green-screen speech the finest address he'd seen all season.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:08 AM
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Google hits for "Joe the plumber" as of Thursday morning: 52,600.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:03 AM
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I'm Sir Kraab, and I take responsibility for 436.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:03 AM
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Joe the Plumber: (1) apparently is not registered to vote and (2) compared BHO to Sammy Davis Jr. live on tv with Katie Couric.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:07 AM
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*Assuming that means what I think it means. Totally out of her league?

Yes and no. Out of your league, but performing well. A 135-pounder beating the shit out of a 180-pounder is "punching above his weight."


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:16 AM
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438: And thus ends the brief public life of Joe the Plumber. Sometimes fifteen minutes is more like eleven and a half.


Posted by: Gabriel | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:21 AM
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What I find interesting about Obama as a debater is that he sounds like every Democratic Presidential candidate ever: calm, well-prepared, full of specific proposals. I could see him giving Dukakis' notorious death penalty answer in 1988. And yet for him it translates into decisive victory.

Two differences: a) I am increasingly coming around to the view that whatever little narrative the media likes to push about game-changing moments, it's about fundamentals and the fundamentals are not in favor of Republicans. b) Obama didn't have to make people fall in love with him. All he had to do was fail to look like a crazy Islamofascist Black Panther; he had to look boring. Dukakis had to look interesting.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:42 AM
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What I find interesting about Obama as a debater is that he sounds like every Democratic Presidential candidate ever: calm, well-prepared, full of specific proposals. I could see him giving Dukakis' notorious death penalty answer in 1988. And yet for him it translates into decisive victory.

I think this is racial. The attack on every Dukakisy Democrat has been that they're cold and intellectual in a weak, effete, effeminate kind of way. That attack just doesn't ring true aimed at a black man, or at at least at a black man who looks like Obama, in most American's heads -- the ivory-tower-egghead role Dukakis and Gore and Kerry got pushed into isn't an available stereotype for a black guy. I don't know that I'd call this racism, but I think it's an aspect of racial stereotyping that's working in Obama's favor in this specific instance.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:49 AM
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yeah, if I were running for President I could get away with saying "Burn it down, motherfuckers!" but Obama can't.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:54 AM
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Joe the Plumber ... compared BHO to Sammy Davis Jr.

Ring a ding ding. That's high praise, indeed.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:03 AM
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I hadn't had the stomach to sit through the second presidential debate, but last night I found it much improved as a drinking game.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:12 AM
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Thanks to which I noticed that McCain said "My friends" only once all night. Someone told him to tamp it down!


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:13 AM
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444: Well, if anyone could take a sunrise, sprinkle it with dew, cover it with chocolate and a miracle or two, it's Barack.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:15 AM
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Yes and no. Out of your league, but performing well. A 135-pounder beating the shit out of a 180-pounder is "punching above his weight."

A 135-pounder losing in 12 rounds instead of 2 rounds to a 180-pounder is also pounching above his weight.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:16 AM
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That attack just doesn't ring true aimed at a black man

Someone above called it Obama's negritude pulling it off. I hope that analysis catches on.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:23 AM
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A 130-pounder staying on his feet for one round without running like a scared rabbit is also punching above his weight, or boxing above his weight I guess.

My understanding is that boxers are rarely successful more than 15 or 20 pounds above their weight, though a world champion 150-pounder can beat 220 pound amateur fighter.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:26 AM
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Aw, and it looks like Joe the Plumber is registered to vote. In fact, a registered republican primary voter. "Joe" it seems is his middle name, plus his last name is misspelled in the database. Fucking voter registration fraud.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:28 AM
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Punching above his weight.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:32 AM
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Wasnt a relative of Joe the Plumber's Charles Keating's son-in-law and served 40 months in prison for the S&L scandal?


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:34 AM
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"Joe the Plumber" sound like he should have his own joke series.

"At the front door Joe the Plumber was greeted by a lovely 30-year-old housewife wearing nothing but earring and leg warmers......"


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:35 AM
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"When I saw the fat, hairy ass I knew that it could only be Joe the Plumber".


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:36 AM
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"No, ma'am, I'm still plumbing", said Joe.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:36 AM
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"We need a double-female adapter, I guess", said Joe.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:37 AM
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McCain's tax plan also benefits Winthrope the Banker and yet on one cares. A little sad.


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:39 AM
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454: They already made that series. The King of Queens. They had to switch him to being a UPS driver after the endorsement deal.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:39 AM
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448: Yes, my intent in using "punching above their weight" was to indicate that in the eyes of the person making the statement (in this case McCain or another hypothetical presidential candidate) the person referred to is outclassed but giving it a good try anyway. Actually the whole way that McCain has treated Palin gives the lie to his BS on why he selected her (and actually his response last night did as well*). The condescending "proud of her" line was implicit acknowledgment of that.


And am I the only one who thought of the Ree-form candidate in O Brother Where Art Thou when he said?

She's a reformer through and through. And it's time we had that bresh of freth air (sic) -- breath of fresh air coming into our nation's capital and sweep out the old-boy network and the cronyism that's been so much a part of it that I've fought against for all these years. [emphasis added]

Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:40 AM
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Turns out that Joe Wurzelbacher from the Toledo event is a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio. Who's Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keating's son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan. The now retired elder Wurzelbacher is also a major contributor to Republican causes giving well over $10,000 in the last few years.

Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:40 AM
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Turns out that Joe Wurzelbacher from the Toledo event is a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio. Who's Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keating's son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan. The now retired elder Wurzelbacher is also a major contributor to Republican causes giving well over $10,000 in the last few years.

Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:46 AM
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The attack on every Dukakisy Democrat has been that they're cold and intellectual in a weak, effete, effeminate kind of way. That attack just doesn't ring true aimed at a black man

I think that's true, but Obama also has the advantage of already having a reputation for being charismatic, for giving stirring speeches, and additionally, of being in a position of strength right now. So he can afford to be intellectual at times. Neither Walter Mondale, or Mike Dukakis, or John Kerry ever had those advantages.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:48 AM
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Also, lucky thing we didn't nominate Jimmy Baldwin, eh?


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:51 AM
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441 and 442 are more insightful than all of punditry put together.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:52 AM
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456 - Don't be fatuous, John.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:01 AM
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442: I don't know that I'd call this racism, but I think it's an aspect of racial stereotyping that's working in Obama's favor in this specific instance.

Agree and very satisfyingly so. The right reaping what the Charles Murray's of this world aided and abetted by a thousand blog commenters like James Shearer have sown.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:20 AM
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463 is a good point. I think that the racial aspects LB talks about above are an important part of the story, but the specifics of Obama's talents (and the fact that his rhetorical style is not preacherly) also guard against the primary anti-Dem stereotypes (other than BClinton, do you have to go back to Kennedies to find an effortlessly charismatic national Dem?).

One thing about Obama's message - McCain=Bush - is that it's a simple enough story, and has a simply enough explained basis, that it has succeeded despite its apparent counterintuitiveness. We all said, 4 months ago, that while it's true that McCain=Bush, no one would believe it, because people aren't used to thinking that way, and the media won't buy it. But the simplicity of it (plus, of course, the financial meltdown that makes economics, where Bush and McCain really are indistinguishable, extra-salient) has made it work against the ostensible odds.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:29 AM
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I'm trying to believe 441 and 442 simultaneously, which is difficult for my feeble mammalian brain.

Here's a third explanation (which is close to what some people mentioned above): the Democrats actually did win all those debates, but they lost the post-debate spin cycle. Further evidence is that the pundits always hated Clinton's State of the Union addresses for detailing specific achievements of the administration, while polling showed the public liked them for the same reason. But those were all punditry checked by polling. Dukakis' wrong answer on the death penalty coincides with the rise of cable news, after all.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:32 AM
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Mondale and Dukakis were also downright homely-looking, and Gore and Kerry were sort of stiff. Obama has some kind of pizzazz and style.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:48 AM
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If the economy had been this bad in 2004, we'd all have been admiring John Kerry's manliness and toughness. What a strong debater! He really knows how to connect to the American people, unlike those stiff caricatures like Gore and Dukakis!


Posted by: Barbar | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 11:34 AM
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Oh and I forgot: it's the war-hero stuff that really separates him from the failed candidates of the past!


Posted by: Barbar | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 11:35 AM
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