Re: 3.0

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I still like the Inauguaration. I mean, HISTORY, folks! We've been waiting for this for decades.

Granted, hotel rooms will be impossible, but don't we have enough houses in the DC area to put people up?


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 3:39 PM
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Shouldn't we all go to Grant Park on Election Day? I'll be the short drunk one with dark curly hair.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 3:43 PM
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I have a feeling air travel would be impossible if anyone was doing that, too.

Also, I just now realized inauguration day is the day after MLK Day. Cool.


Posted by: Necks | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 3:44 PM
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stupid autocorrect


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 3:44 PM
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I vote Inauguration! I can never escape from visiting my family during Christmas, but I definitely would go out for the Inauguration + UnfoggeDCon!

That said, I tried twice recently to organize Bay Area meetups. It's like trying to herd cats, and damn near impossible, and I am growing convinced that Ogged doesn't exist and that it's just W-lfs-n emailing me from two accounts.


Posted by: belle lettre | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 3:45 PM
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also also some people in the Flophouse will be going to the actual inauguration because they suck


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 3:46 PM
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6: so? Assuming you mean who I think, they aren't Unfogged regulars anyway. Besides, the Unfogged part doesn't have to coincide with a particular ceremony or anything.

The official inauguaral balls are a giant bore, believe me.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 3:48 PM
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The official inauguaral balls are a giant bore, believe me.

by design.


to avoid the problem of flights/hotels, people could just fly down to texas to take a celebratory piss on bush's crawford ranch, instead ...


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 3:50 PM
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You know, I turned down my only inauguration/inaugural ball invitation thus far in life. I had worked for Dukakis and felt I couldn't go to Bush's inaugural on principle. The boy who asked me took another girl (who had also worked for MD!) who came home raving of the charming people she met, like Adolfo Calero. Ew.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 3:52 PM
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7 - actually, it's not who you think. Bastard.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 3:52 PM
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The official inauguaral balls are low-hanging fruit.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 3:53 PM
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Belle, you have to go and tell me about it in real time. You owe me.


Posted by: Amber | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 3:55 PM
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I was thinking that the two days off (I will get paid for only of them) make it a great time to take a vacation in the Caribbean. DC in the 3rd week of January can be bitterly cold.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 3:58 PM
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It seems to me that a change of locale might be a good thing: the west coast provides an opportunity for attendees who were otherwise unable to make the previous UnfoggeDCons. (Also possibly rules out some east coasters, but hey, it's how it goes.)


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 3:58 PM
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Amber, if I went, you know I'd be staying with you and we'd be going together and I'd be pouring you and myself many, many socially lubricating drinks to ease our nervous twitchiness.

But sure, I'll get on the comments and tell you, as you're standing next to me, what W-lfs-n is wearing.


Posted by: belle lettre | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 3:59 PM
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1. I have never even been invited to an inaugural ball.
2. What if the unthinkable happens? Do you really want to be in DC for that? Hubris, people! Hubris!


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 3:59 PM
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16.2: somebody's got to burn shit down then, no?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:00 PM
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17: You make a rather compelling argument.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:01 PM
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Also: seriously, APA? That close to Christmas? That's just mean.

The APA also hosts its annual "THERE IS NO SANTA" roundtable just prior to the conference.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:03 PM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:04 PM
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It seems to me that a change of locale might be a good thing: the west coast provides an opportunity for attendees who were otherwise unable to make the previous UnfoggeDCons.

As I said in the other thread, particularly with the MLA being in SF this year a Bay Area UDC would make sense, the problem being that we don't have a venue.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:07 PM
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Also: seriously, APA? That close to Christmas? That's just mean.

mean, or just desserts? You decide...


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:08 PM
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The MLA is likewise Dec. 27 though, so same close-to-Christmas problem. What is with you anti-Christmas academics? The AALS is after New Year's in San Diego.

Alas, no venue. I can fit 20 people uncomfortably in my 700 sq. ft. apartment, and most of it would be standing room only.


Posted by: belle lettre | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:11 PM
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Bay Area UDC! Woo! Do that! Somebody rent the Cow Palace!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:12 PM
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It's not a close-to-Christmas problem, it's a converging-on-SF opportunity!

Even if we don't call it a uDCon, I'd be up for a Bay area meetup the 29th or 30th. (30th probably better.)


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:14 PM
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And after MLA interviews, believe me, I will be ready to drink.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:16 PM
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Is this really such a hard problem? I would've thought the next most appropriate date would be obvious.


Posted by: Tom | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:16 PM
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Yeah, and I have my doubts about fitting everyone in my apartment, too. How about we just go out to Hippie Hill in Golden Gate Park and join the drum circle?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:18 PM
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27: What, at Surf Control? That doesn't sound very fun.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:18 PM
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Otto, you come closer and closer to my heart (not that I really know what Hippie Hill is like), but remember where you are here.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:20 PM
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I didn't get to meet Ogged last year, I want my money back.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:22 PM
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30: Yes, but meeting there might induce Ogged to emerge from his undisclosed location and come yell at the DFHs.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:22 PM
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Let's rent cabins in a sunny, beautiful beach location and party naked in the surf.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:23 PM
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I got to talk to ogged on the phone at uDCon last year. He had a sexy voice.

Or maybe it was just the cold.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:24 PM
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32: ogged? Who's that?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:26 PM
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1) Ogged does indeed have a sexy voice

2) I asked if he would come out of hiding for UFC3.0 and be said no.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:26 PM
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32: ogged? Who's that?

some has-been.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:32 PM
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I asked if he would come out of hiding for UFC3.0 and be said no.

I didn't think the meetup last summer went *that* badly...


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:34 PM
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Yeah, well, I miss him too at times, but I think retired means retired.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:42 PM
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I begged him to come back, invited him to a meetup, and offered to bake him cookies. Alas. Pimping yourself doesn't work, ladies of Unfogged.


Posted by: belle lettre | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:44 PM
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UFC3.0

There's going to be Ultimate Fighting, too?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:45 PM
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Also, I could go to a Bay Area meet-up if I moved to the Bay Area and had a job there.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:46 PM
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And if we had some ham, we could have some ham and eggs, if we had some eggs.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:48 PM
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...I don't eat no ham and eggs, 'cause they're high in cholesterolllll

Yo Phife, do you eat em?...


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:50 PM
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||

I wonder if these people read Unfogged.

|>


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:53 PM
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No no no, green eggs and swine
But they keep edgin' to my plate
I step back and say, "Thanks, I just ate,"


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:53 PM
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The APA also hosts its annual "THERE IS NO SANTA" roundtable just prior to the conference.

I like the panel on "Crushing Your Dreams", myself.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:56 PM
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I like the panel on "Crushing Your Dreams", myself.

That's the one associated with the interviews, right?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:59 PM
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40: Are you, like, new here?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 4:59 PM
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49: No, just naive. He keeps throwing me bones like "sure," and then the rug, it is pulled out from under my feet.


Posted by: belle lettre | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 5:04 PM
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|| Holy fuck. The newest article from John Dolan, one of my favorite internet writers (The War Nerd, the Exile, etc.). Berkeley Phd, professor at several universities, written numerous books of criticism, fiction, and poetry. About his descent into street level poverty. Really chilling. Makes the bad economy come home...sorry to the humanities students ||>


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 5:10 PM
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51: holy shit. I love John Dolan. OMG.


Posted by: belle lettre | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 5:16 PM
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51: I spent a chunk of my youth there (and worse off). I can't really imagine going back.


Posted by: John F. Kennedy | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 5:21 PM
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53 came out far less sympathetically than it was meant. That situation really sucks.


Posted by: John F. Kennedy | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 5:24 PM
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50: ogged has always been meet-up resistant, by his own admission, and is presumably in an entirely different headspace now.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 5:25 PM
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54: Dolan would clearly agree that 53 was the properly authentic reaction to the piece of art he wrote.

That article really captures the primal fear of a middle class person seeing the possibility of *real* poverty. At least it brought it home to me. I've never experienced that before -- just the 'genteel' kind he mentions in the beginning.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 5:27 PM
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Oh, hell. The Dolan article is blunt enough. Thanks for the link; one forgets.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 5:53 PM
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How big have the previous two UnfoggeDCon's been? I mean, how many people and how much space are we talking about here?


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 5:58 PM
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Meetup at Chaco! No shortage of space here, especially in December.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:01 PM
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The last one was really too big for the Flophouse. It was tighttighttight in there.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:03 PM
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It was what, about 50? Our group coming from dinner was 22 I think, and was about half of the final attendance.
I can just barely imagine what it would be like to be unemployed. I can't picture how I could ever end up homeless- I mean, I can think of scenarios that logically would end up with that result, but I don't really believe they could ever happen.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:13 PM
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It was tighttighttight in there.

"Oh, Your Grace, what a naughty thing to say" giggled Bubbles.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:14 PM
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60: Yeah, very true. How many people? Did I hear estimates of ... uh ... 75? More, I think. I'm terrible at estimating these things.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:16 PM
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61: Ha! SP says 50. I think more. Our dinner group looked like half when we arrived, but no way was it half by the end.

Anyway.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:18 PM
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33: Yes. Let's rent a house on Bonnaire. That would be cheap, yet warm, surfy, and bug free!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:20 PM
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Our dinner group looked like half when we arrived, but no way was it half by the end.

Well, there were the unfogged people, and then there were the non-unfogged flophouse party people. I'm assuming they wouldn't make the trek out to a non-flophouse gathering.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:31 PM
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66: True.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:36 PM
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Dolan's story fits what I know about brokeness, but a.) isn't Dolan a hoaxer? and b.) how did he fall so low in 2007 when he was already famous by then?

He must have had a lot of pride to wait that long before asking for a loan.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:43 PM
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68 (a): That piece sounds a little too bitter to be a hoax. And does it matter? It sounds accurate enough. Reality check for those who might need it.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:47 PM
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If someone other than Dolan had written it, I'd have no problem. I'm just trying to fit it to what I know about Dolan's personal history.

50 miles outside Eugene, OR, 20 years ago there were colonies of people who'd been living that way seemingly forever.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:53 PM
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The last one was really too big for the Flophouse. It was tighttighttight in there.

Only because the traffic flow was disrupted because some people (ahem) insisted on taking over the living room to watch football.

Also: puh-leeze. We've had parties with twice that number of people.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:54 PM
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Of course, now we have whiny neighbors who call the cops on us when we do.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:54 PM
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(UnfoggeDCon x 2 sized, that is. UFC-sized, we're fine.)


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:55 PM
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All the places people want to got to are too expensive, so no one goes there. If we went to a place we didn't want to ge to, we could easily find a space.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 6:59 PM
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71: We were trying not to say anything about the football watching, Becks.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:01 PM
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74: Is the Wobegon First Lutheran church basement available?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:18 PM
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We could probably swing an off-season group rate at one of the local motels.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:24 PM
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Let's rent cabins in a sunny, beautiful beach location and party naked in the surf.

This is an excellent idea.

Costa Rica!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:25 PM
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77: And everyone rents bikes, so Emerson can lead us on a biking tour of the area pubs!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:26 PM
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Hey, Becks, didn't you see that I was going to post something? Right here! Grumble.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:27 PM
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79; Not in December, I don't think.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:28 PM
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I'm just pissy because while I finally figured out how to get ghc 6.8.2 installed, it for some reason hasn't given me Control.Monad.State, which I could really use right now.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:28 PM
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If we move UnfoggedCon to Providence, it will greatly increase the chances I can attend.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:31 PM
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There's still time for your post, ben.

I wish my friends in SF lurked here.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:32 PM
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Actually, I am not sure that I want to party naked with Stanley.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:32 PM
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My place is actually large enough to host a gathering, but I am extremely skeptical that my roommates would be into it.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:33 PM
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What about the faculty club, Ben?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:36 PM
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Venue-wise, I don't want to speak on AWB's behalf in case the offer got retracted, but at one point she had a suggestion for a location. I'll just dangle that as a teaser.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:37 PM
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85: Another member of your family seemed more inclined the last time we hung out.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:38 PM
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Will we get to sign Heebie's belly?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:38 PM
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Actually, I am empowered to reserve the boardroom of the Stanford Humanities Center...


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:38 PM
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89:

eekbeat and I are not technically related.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:39 PM
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69

That piece sounds a little too bitter to be a hoax. ...

The tone is similar to his War Nerd persona which I take it was invented. As for accuracy do cops really stop you if your auto insurance payment is 2 weeks overdue?


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:47 PM
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91: Judging from the last UnfoggeDCon, such a place would not be appropriate. Which is not to say that the tenor of the event couldn't be shifted just a tad.

I don't know why I'm speaking to any of this in the first place, given that I'm signed up for christmas in New Hampshire anyway.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:49 PM
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As for accuracy do cops really stop you if your auto insurance payment is 2 weeks overdue?

Some will, absolutely. And if they don't like the look of you/had a bad day/whatever some are perfectly happy to have you towed, hold you for 24 hours, fix a nuisance charge, too.

It's unfortunately not all that uncommon to run into a police officer whos behavior towards people is almost entirely governed by their perceived ability to do anything about it (and a healthy dose of self preservation).


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:50 PM
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The cops apply the laws very, very strictly to suspicious characters. I believe that that was Dolan's point, that he had become a suspicious character.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:50 PM
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Judging from the last UnfoggeDCon, such a place would not be appropriate.

You don't say.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:52 PM
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I need enough advance notice to lose weight for W-lfs-n.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:54 PM
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Will we get to sign Heebie's belly?

If it's there, it is certainly signable.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:54 PM
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*** A perfect solution for endless joy ***

All of the Modern Linguists should band together and rent a gigantic suite.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:55 PM
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How about Kobe's house?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:55 PM
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You suck, ben.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:55 PM
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Sorry Stanley, Kobe's house was taken.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:56 PM
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97: I specialize in the obvious, ben.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:56 PM
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95: That's why you need a PBA card. Get to know one of your local cops! They get new cards every year around November or December.


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:57 PM
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Things being what they are, we could probably put together the cash to buy a mostly-completed house in some Bay Area exurb.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:57 PM
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The conductor on the caltrain on the way home today was telling everyone about the house he bought in AZ for 69 grand, which the previous owner had bought a little more than a year ago for 169 grand and which was just assessed as being worth about 107 grand, and which he plans to rent out.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:58 PM
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95

Some will, absolutely. ...

How do they know your insurance is 2 weeks overdue? They have to run your plate and your state has to have a reliable way of determining if you are insured. Maybe with computers this is possible now but I am a little doubtful. I would expect this is more common after you are stopped for something else and can't produce proof of insurance. Although in my state they send you the new card with the bill.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:58 PM
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The 27th is also the 24 Hours of LeMons in Willows (north of Sacramento) (as is the 28th). It would be sad if I couldn't make it.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 7:59 PM
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How about gate-crashing the ToS' abode?


Posted by: Tiny Hermaphrodite | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:00 PM
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boardroom of the Stanford Humanities Center

I've spent many an evening rather sloshed in my institution's Humanities Center.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:03 PM
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96

The cops apply the laws very, very strictly to suspicious characters. I believe that that was Dolan's point, that he had become a suspicious character.

Maybe the cop stopped him because he looked suspicious and then determined he had no insurance. But that isn't what he said. I just got the feeling he wasn't telling the whole story.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:04 PM
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That's why you need a PBA card. Get to know one of your local cops!

Wouldn't do you any good at all in the cases I'm thinking of. And really does not affect me, personally, these days.

John makes a good point --- beyond the actively bad cases I'm talking about, you can have a lot of grief from all but the best of them, just from perception. Police are trained and socialized to think of themselves as protecting one group of people against another group. Based on (sometimes snap) judgements on which of these two groups you belong in the will change (sometimes radically) their behavior.

This is what can be very difficult to understand if you've only ever had interactions with police who perceive you to be amongst their wards, not their antagonists.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:04 PM
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I think Shearer is right here on the small point that it's impossible to stop someone for expired insurance, only to cite them for it once you've stopped them.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:05 PM
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They run the tags on the vehicle. If it says "40 yr old man with brown hair and glasses, and you meet the description, then ok." Otherwise, no.

(In Va.)


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:09 PM
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How do they know your insurance is 2 weeks overdue?

Oh they wouldn't initially. Possible exception for new technology, and only recently as you say.

However, although it's not legal anyplace I know of, it is entirely common for police to stop people they don't like the look of. If your car, or skin color, or hair cut, or whatever, isn't what they think of as "right" for that beat. Sometimes they do this with every intent of finding something they can write you up on, regardless. Some are perfectly happy to manufacture what they can't find, when it comes to that.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:09 PM
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On the particulars of the linked story though? Who knows. Some places have year/month stickers you have to put on your plate. In that case, you can be pulled over for a day's overdue insurance, let alone two weeks ....


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:14 PM
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A lot of the backstory seems to be missing there. One important tip that appears to be missing is "if you're living in the street, you need to re-evaluate which jobs are beneath you and which ones aren't."


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:15 PM
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107

Detroit is even cheaper.


Posted by: BA | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:16 PM
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Some places have year/month stickers you have to put on your plate. In that case, you can be pulled over for a day's overdue insurance, let alone two weeks.

Registration. Of course, driving without liability insurance is pretty fucked up in my book. You can very easily leave a bicyclist or motorcyclist with a hundred grand in medical bills.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:19 PM
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Or even a pedestrian!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:20 PM
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One important tip that appears to be missing is "if you're living in the street, you need to re-evaluate which jobs are beneath you and which ones aren't."


This is true, but it's also hard to overestimate how difficult it is to get a job of any kind when actually living on the street, if you've never seen the process.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:20 PM
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So, I realize Shearer misses the overall point of the Dolan story, but again I have to ask whether the potential inaccuracy of the details detracts from that point.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:23 PM
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112: I think that you're missing the point, and your judgment on points of this kind is more than usually suspect.

When a cop stops a suspicious character, he often has the intention of finding some reason to give him a citation or arrest him. People have been cited for a burned out license-plate light, for example. Cops have a lot of discretionary power, and they use it. Your disbelief is the result of limited experience and knowledge.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:24 PM
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Grr, and yes, sorry, I'm letting Shearer annoy me unncessarily.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:24 PM
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My wife's canoe racing club rented a former elementary school in SW for a party. It was surprisingly cheap, and large.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:30 PM
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I agree with Shearer that Dolan's story seems to be missing something, but I agree with Parsi that Shearer is being obtuse.

Dolan seems to have moved around a lot and probably burns more bridges than he builds, so I can understand that his support network right where he was was pretty weak.

I sort of went through this when I retired and was looking for part-time jobs. I just hadn't cultivated the kind of connections that could give you leads, nor a good jobhunting persona either.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:36 PM
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124

When a cop stops a suspicious character, he often has the intention of finding some reason to give him a citation or arrest him. People have been cited for a burned out license-plate light, for example. Cops have a lot of discretionary power, and they use it. Your disbelief is the result of limited experience and knowledge.

Dolan claimed he was stopped because his insurance had expired. That is the story I am dubious of. I understand cops have discretionary power and can look for something to give you a ticket for after they have stopped you.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:37 PM
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114: The DMV in California knew I hadn't renewed my motorcycle insurance even though I had registered the bike earlier. They sent a letter telling I had to get insurance soon and then a later one saying riding the bike on the road would be a violation.

Any cop running the plate though his car computer would know my insurance had lapsed before he pulled me over.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:37 PM
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I agree with Shearer that Dolan's story seems to be missing something

Yeah, but it could just be an `and' (i.e. ... and because my insurance...)


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:38 PM
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I wonder what the process is to get UFDC sanctioned as an official inaugural ball. The smallest ball.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:38 PM
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131: The low-hanging fruit of balls!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:40 PM
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Shearer is being obtuse.

Holy crap! Stop the presses!

I ban myself.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:40 PM
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That is the story I am dubious of.

And it *might* be dubious, but it really depends on local laws, which we don't know.

In any case, doesn't make much difference.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:40 PM
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127

Emerson you were the one who said in 68:

Dolan's story fits what I know about brokeness, but a.) isn't Dolan a hoaxer? and b.) how did he fall so low in 2007 when he was already famous by then?

If the guy is known as a hoaxer small holes in his story seem more important.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:44 PM
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||

CY's Ezster's dad's "The Martians of Science" is fun. Did you know that the Budapest gymnasia didn't have good gymnasiums? Fact. The Czechs were fanatical about physical culture (the Sokol), but not the Hungarians.

Until 1844, Hungary's official language was Latin. Fact.

|>


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:44 PM
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I don't know if this interests anyone, but I will be in SF for MLA and staying with my old roommate in Davis for a few days afterwards, and we are really up for hosting a house party on the 29th or 30th in Davis. Would people be willing to come?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:45 PM
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133: Hell, Charley, sometimes you just gotta say it, though.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:46 PM
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Along with at least one other person here, I've been pretty close to the situation described, and what he says rings completely true. I do have trouble integrating it with what I know about Dolan's career history.

But, yeah, you caught me in an inconsistency. I wouldn't have said what I said if I'd known you were around.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:47 PM
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If the guy is known as a hoaxer small holes in his story seem more important.

Perhaps. But there is nothing in his account, factual or no, that is unrealistic.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:52 PM
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AWB you should move Davis closer to SF.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:54 PM
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Pay attention to 137! That's what I was alluding to in 88.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:54 PM
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James is dedicated to evidence. Evidence. It seems that if there is no evidence for something, no studies provided -- cites, if you will -- the thing in question is dubious at best. It's a strange way to go about life, but it seems to be James's way.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:56 PM
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143 it's not that part that's odd. It's the tendency to concentrate on a minute part of the whole, with no clear rhyme nor reason; and fail any conclusion from it.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 8:59 PM
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I looked at Dolan's wiki. His bio cuts off at 2006, and is very sketchy after about 2001 (when he moved to Moscow). There are only about 4 non-eXile publications listed from the eXile period and after. It looks as though when he came back from Moscow he didn't find any red carpets laid out for him. Sort of a 53-year-old starving Indy musician type.

Internet fame is not yet fungible, it seems.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:01 PM
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Last news is a job in BC in 2006, which apparently didn't pan out.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:04 PM
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If it comes down to it, my apt is available. It's just a 3-bed, and it's way off the T, but it exists.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:06 PM
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137: If I can cut short my visit to my strict-yet-loving-parents-with-whom-I-have-a-complex-relationship (gulp), I'd totally go!


Posted by: belle lettre | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:06 PM
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144: Okay, true. As though a flaw in some minute part casts doubt on the whole, though. But yes, with no clear explanation as to why this should be so in the particular case.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:07 PM
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137: Yes.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:13 PM
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149

Okay, true. As though a flaw in some minute part casts doubt on the whole, though. But yes, with no clear explanation as to why this should be so in the particular case.

Emerson said the guy was known as a hoaxer. If you are a reporter and you starting fudging details pretty soon you are inventing conversations with serial killers. Or so it was on season 5 of The Wire which I just got finished watching.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:14 PM
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146: For what it's worth, BC is a place where your insurance status is a sticker on your license plate (month/day of renewal if I recall correctly)


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:14 PM
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137: Can't make it, but you're a fool if you don't eat good mexican food; it's the only thing the central valley is good for. Go for La Estrellla in Manteca if you can find nothing else.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:16 PM
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I understand cops have discretionary power and can look for something to give you a ticket for after they have stopped you.

In UT, and it's probably the same in CA, traffic stop is a "Level II" stop. You need some kind of violation, or articulable "reasonable suspicion". You can't just pull someone over because you feel like it. From what Biohazard said, insurance sounds like it's something the CA cops can check and pull you over for.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:17 PM
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151: Sure, we all got that point many comments ago, James. But it was pointed out that though it might sound off, a) this may not be so strange anyway depending where he was and b) the whole thing hangs together pretty well.

In your usual style you both failed to engage the various forms of these points directly; pretty much repeated your original line.

That, I think is what throws people off sometimes.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:17 PM
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You can't just pull someone over because you feel like it.

You can't in theory. In practice it happens a lot in some locations anyway. I think I noted that earlier.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:18 PM
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129 is news to me. Thanks, bio.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:19 PM
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151: James, does the possibility that Dolan is or has been a hoaxer in the past mean that the message of that piece can be dismissed?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:19 PM
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154: You can't just pull someone over because you feel like it.

Speeding? I'm asking, because I'm honestly not sure, but if normal speeding -- 60 in a 55 zone -- counts as a reason to pull someone over, then you pretty much can pull people over at your whim.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:20 PM
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If the Davis UFDC consists entirely of stimulants and not at all of depressants, I might be in good enough shape at the to make the five-hour drive to the other party I'm supposed to be at that weekend. Where I might get married again.

Then I'd miss brunch, though.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:20 PM
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Internet fame is not yet fungible, it seems.

Tell me about it.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:21 PM
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but if normal speeding -- 60 in a 55 zone -- counts as a reason to pull someone over, then you pretty much can pull people over at your whim.

Well yeah, technically you can almost always find something. And city codes are usually fully of obscure crap like regulations on license plate frames, hanging stuff from your mirrors, etc. that most people are aren't aware of.



Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:23 PM
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I consider my 158 well-pwned by 155, which exhibits more patience than I apparently have.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:23 PM
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Did somebody say Davis? That place sucks.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:24 PM
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Based on what I've read, I'd guess that his job in BC didn't pan out and he wasn't able to find another teaching job. He was 53 with essentially no work record except in teaching and writing. Maybe he was unwilling to apply for lesser jobs, but maybe he just didn't seem right for them. I've had that experience. Moving around the way he had (US -- NZ -- RU --CA), he hadn't established support networks. His fame, which included a surly persona, was useless with the hiring people. The undergrads of today probably aren't into his schtick either.

So it's a surprising and frightening story, one of the lessons of which is that the internet community doesn't nurture you yet the way the large bureaucratic entities do.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:25 PM
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Can we crash with you, ari?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:25 PM
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I bet my perfect solution for endless joy would actually be workable, if enough people chipped in, but that's probably because I have no idea what anything costs.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:26 PM
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Ari's got the idea.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:26 PM
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156

You can't just pull someone over because you feel like it.

You can't in theory. In practice it happens a lot in some locations anyway. I think I noted that earlier.

I have to agree with this. Not too long ago I was pulled over because I was "weaving". The cop determined I wasn't drunk and sent me on. I doubt he actually had legal reason to stop me. Perhaps this was related to the junk car I was driving at the time.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:27 PM
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Maybe with computers this is possible now but I am a little doubtful.

Doubt no more, Shearer, this is what happened to me. AFAIK, cops do need some other reason to pull you over, but that reason can be something as simple as a single light, as Emerson suggested. In my case it was one of my taillights; they ran my plates on the computer and pulled me over. And asked me to get out, and patted me down. That was in my shabby pickup, which has been pulled over several times; I've been driving the Prius with a broken (driver's-side) marker light for two years without incident. Who is likely to have lapsed insurance? A poor person. Who is likely to have minor problems like broken lights on a car? A poor person.

I got lucky. My insurance had just lapsed (because of a problem with the online payment system, but the story would be the same if it had been because I couldn't afford it anymore), and I did an Oscar-worthy impression of a sober person (Yeah, I know; it was a rare lapse of judgment at the end of a winemaking night). But the cop who performed an illegal search of my truck happened to find the proof of insurance (which had slipped behind the seat, so I hadn't been able to find it), and that was good enough for them to let me go. Fuckers.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:28 PM
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167: agreed. I think it's doable.

||

DREW!!#!#!@!

|>


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:28 PM
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You can't in theory. In practice it happens a lot in some locations anyway. I think I noted that earlier.

Listening to my cousin tell stories of riding with cops in when he wanted to be a cop, you sure as hell can in Dallas. One charming story hinged on, "So we pulled her over because she stopped at a stop sign with her tires over the white line."


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:28 PM
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162: There's always something. Here there was a big problem with the city force cashing in on an overly-broad interpretation of `don't obscure your license plate.' They decided those little plastic plate frames that every car dealer uses were obscuring, for the purposes. If I recall correctly, there were 3 full time officers doing nothing but handing out tickets for that. Nice little cash cow for them until enough people raised a stink about it.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:29 PM
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162: You are using your newfound powers for good, right? Are you still training, or are you a fullfledged police by now?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:30 PM
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158

James, does the possibility that Dolan is or has been a hoaxer in the past mean that the message of that piece can be dismissed?

Personal anecdotes don't mean much if they aren't true.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:31 PM
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Jesus: Not only that, but if you get pulled over in your truck they get a chance to have a look at you before they decide to write you up on not. They have a lot of discretion that way. Who do you think is more likely to get the ticket(s) ?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:32 PM
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are you a fullfledged police

Someone hasn't been doing her Wire-watching homework.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:33 PM
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Hey, we're starting season 3, so I'm only about three years late. I thought "a police" was Wire-approved, though.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:34 PM
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167: I have sent emails to the San Francisco Hilton and Marriott asking what suites they have available and for how much. I believe the price will be exorbitant and the supply limited, but at least we will know.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:35 PM
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178: just start calling him po-po.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:36 PM
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I thought "a police" was Wire-approved, though.

Oh. You're exactly right. I was misreading (even with the strikethrough) on that one. Someone else take the keys. I can't drive.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:39 PM
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Also: eekbeat and I just this weekend started in on Season 3, so comity on our tardiness!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:40 PM
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oddly enough, I know exactly where the photo was taken in that Dolan piece, and in fact have lain precisely there.

Which makes me suspect due to location that James' original contention is in fact incorrect. Specifically, where that photo was taken, insurance information is read off plates.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:43 PM
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That's more than enough oddly, soup.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:47 PM
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James, there are really no startling details in Dolan's story. The only thing that seems weird to me is that it happened to Dolan, who is internet-famous. But a little research has made that more believable.

What is it that you question? That homeless people get used to smelling bad? That after months on the streets it's hard to interview well? That being cold all the time is miserable?

The story about the car being impounded matches other stories I've heard from other people, or read in the newspaper.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:47 PM
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184: I didn't notice it the first time I looked at the story -- went back to check something and... strange.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:51 PM
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I'm thoroughly disgusted with James' approach to this.

'night!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 9:51 PM
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And does it matter? It sounds accurate enough. Reality check for those who might need it.

Well, it's not a reality check if it's not real, is probably the worry. Just like what's-his-face-million-little-pieces guy with his touching tale of a real drug addict's recovery and his friendly large cellmate. Is that book a good reality check about addiction? Ehhhhhh.

I suspect the guy probably got pulled over for something else that he wasn't ticketed for, or that his registration had also lapsed. Once they have a reason to run the plates the rest is just computers. Doesn't seem like a big enough omission/gloss on what happened to make the rest of his story seem suspect. But yes, if he's writing a hoax, that's a reason to suspect whether it's a good reality check.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 10:05 PM
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Dolan was the guy who exposed Frey.

The part about the policeman having the car towed rang quite true to me. It all did, really.

Police follow rules to the extent that they have to. If their superiors wink at abuses, or encourage them, you'll have abuses. Police also have a pretty good idea of who's able to fight back.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 10:10 PM
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||

DRRREEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWW321312#@#!!@!#@11231212312

|>


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 10:11 PM
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Cala, in that context it's probably worth noting both 189.1 183.2


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 10:11 PM
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sifu ???


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 10:12 PM
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In California the cops can run the plates before they even pull you over.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 10:13 PM
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the ?'s were about all the loud drew-ing


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 10:14 PM
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192: baseball, man. What can I tell ya.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 10:14 PM
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189 is correct.

One year my registration never came in the mail, so neither did my sticker. I went to the registrationery and asked if I was registered, and they said yes, and they said my registration had been brought to my apartment, and then brought back and labeled as "not delivered" or something meaningful like that. And I asked if it could be delivered again, and they said it would be another $30 or whatever, so I just went a year without my license plate displaying a current registration. I expected to get pulled over all the time, but it only happened once. Who knows how often they ran the plate and then decided not to pull me over.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 10:19 PM
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191: Certainly. I'm addressing not whether the guy's claim is true (seems likely), but that if it turns out to be a hoax, whether he's still a reliable source of information on the slide into poverty.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 10:24 PM
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I have sent emails to the San Francisco Hilton and Marriott asking what suites they have available and for how much. I believe the price will be exorbitant and the supply limited, but at least we will know.

If we're going to rent someplace in SF, I'd suggest this place. I'll give them a call tomorrow; I know people who've rented out the room before, so I don't think it'll be exorbitant. (OTOH, those parties weren't between Christmas and New Year's.)


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 10:28 PM
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197: Ok, fair enough. Everything he says is roughly correct, at least. You can quibble about emphasis, add a few things, etc. On the whole, it's pretty good.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 10:29 PM
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Magpie and I would also totally be down for a Davis UDC.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 10:30 PM
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Are you still training, or are you a fullfledged police by now?

Still have a few more weeks of training.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 10:51 PM
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Shearer is being more than usually an asshole here, I'm sure that if this was an account of how some Wall Street prick made a ton of money of unregulated debt instruments he'd be defending the guy. James is a "contrarian" only when his Fox News-bred instincts are engaged.

Anyway, Dolan is not a "hoaxer", I have no idea where John got that. The Exile pulled some pranks, prank calls and so forth, even then it didn't seem to be Dolan but the younger editors. There's nothing in this story that makes it look like a hoax, every event is grindingly ordinary. Including getting towed for some obscure automobile-related violation...where have you guys been all your lives?

Finally, I'm in no way surprised that an obscure cult figure who had published a fair amount could be penniless. If you've ever hung around publishing or authors at all you know that the great majority of commercial books published make little to no money for the author, and web writing brings nothing. Dolan appears to have made some unbourgeois/risky/bad choices about career and money (starting with his profession, obvs, but apparently he moved to British Columbia assuming he could live off savings), but that's sort of the point.

Sorry for the threadjack, though, this thread is actually devoted to something real too.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 10:57 PM
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202

... James is a "contrarian" only when his Fox News-bred instincts are engaged.

My views may be wrongheaded but they are my own. I don't even watch Fox News. I think we should leave Iraq immediately, is that the Fox News line?


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10-16-08 11:24 PM
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Don't even bother pursuing the hotel suite angle. The hotel management would shut down that party before it ever got going. You could conceivably rent a function room at a hotel, but they will want to cater it with 4 dollar cokes and 9 dollar beers.

Far better to find a venue that permits BYOB and is accustomed to all-night drunken parties.

Bay Aryans, engage the hivemind!


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 12:37 AM
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I don't see what's so wrong about Davis (for those with places to stay in the Bay Area).


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 1:44 AM
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This is true, but it's also hard to overestimate how difficult it is to get a job of any kind when actually living on the street, if you've never seen the process.

Yeah, which is why you (or at least I) figure that pretty much any job is better than being on the street, no matter how beneath you it seems.

I agree with John that this guy is seriously maladjusted and probably unpleasant to be around (is he the guy who wrote the article about 24 whores in 24 hours?). To the extent that you don't realize how much that can hurt you, it's a valuable wake-up call.

There was an article in the local free newspaper a couple weeks back about two students at the local city college who were political activists yet homeless and addicted to heroin. The article played it straight, but man was that a depressing piece.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 2:46 AM
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206: 24 whores in 24 hours was not Dolan. It was Mark Ames.

The only way that Dolan is a hoaxer, that I know of, is War Nerd itself, which is written from the point of view of a made-up character.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 5:57 AM
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Don't forget what happened on election day the last time the Sox had a big ALCS comeback. Why does Sifu hate America?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 6:40 AM
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The British government has applied terrorist laws to freeze the assets of an Icelandic bank; the list goes on as if it were a script for the nightmare of globalization.
We thought we had friends, in Europe and in the United States. They were sought in the hour of need and found to be busy with their own problems; only the Scandinavians were prepared to extend a helping hand, and then, all of a sudden, Russia -- somehow the world has changed."

My plan is working. Soon the Soviet-Scandinavian bloc will have absorbed Canada. The Danish Navy is steaming west as we speak. The Finnish ski troops are waiting for winter. Canada's vast stores of moose and bear will no longer be under American control.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 6:50 AM
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I don't see what's so wrong about Davis (for those with places to stay in the Bay Area).

Um, drinking + 1.5-hour drive back to your bed?

Of course, this won't be a problem if we're all staying at Ari's house.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 6:50 AM
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Since the Bay seems to be gaining momentum, let me note that there is no intrinsic reason to have only one conn in one location. Them as can't make it to the Bay could well have their own thing elsewhere.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 6:51 AM
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Rent a room, guys!

Have we no plutocrat friend to finance this boondoggle?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 6:52 AM
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Anyone interested in a DC Election Night meetup?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 7:38 AM
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213 - I'm interested, though I may be doing GOTV stuff until the polls close.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 7:45 AM
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I don't know that 3.0 is necessary. Last night I went to hear Christo and Jeanne-Claude at the Phillips. They were touting their latest work -- to cover a stretch of river in Colorado, the first art-work to require an Environmental Impact Statement -- but in the Q&A someone asked why their pieces are only left up for two weeks and Jeanne-Claude had a very nice answer about impermanence inspires love and tenderness. I loved UFDC 1, Others have only good memories of UFDC 2. Let's stop while we're ahead.


Posted by: jim | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 7:47 AM
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Rah and I will be in DC at some point in January though probably not for the inauguration itself (trying to find rooms turned out to be crazy and I'm a big snob who doesn't want to go to "DC" if that means staying an hour away). If something happens while we're there, awesome; if not, he and I have still never had a chance to play tourists together.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 7:55 AM
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213 - I'm interested. I was getting a little depressed by this thread - here I am living in Arlington, and people have been talking about the annual meetup being on the West Coast or whatever, so I'd probably miss it. (Sure, I haven't been commenting much lately, but I was at UnfoggeDCon 2.0, and I'll probably be commenting more now that I have a job.) It was fun last year; I'd like to do something Unfogged-related. (No, I can't host, but I do have a couch free if someone wants to crash on it.)

This thread is also a little depressing because it reminds me that I really, really need to take care of registering my car and all that stuff...


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 8:36 AM
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I think you should all come over here - problem solved. I bet I've got enough beds for everyone who'd actually come.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 9:34 AM
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213: I'm interested. May be others too.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 9:34 AM
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If the main fun ismovung westward, I'd be up for an east coast thang as well.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 9:46 AM
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I have other election night plans and will be gotving but would be glad to publicize something on the front page. Just drop me a line.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 9:48 AM
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Yeah, I'd be interested in an event somewhere in the Northeast Corridor. We've had events as big as last year's UDCon in my apartment -- it just gets sweatier.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 9:48 AM
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re: 218

A UK Unfogged meetup would be sadly underpopulated. Although the net level of 'awesome' would be high ...


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:06 AM
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You, OFE, Nakku (I think -- he wanders about), asilon... that's enough for a drink in a bar, certainly.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:08 AM
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ajay is in the UK [he's British just not sure if he lives here]? Alex is. D2 [although he probably dines in a higher class of establishment]. Jesurgislac? There are others.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:14 AM
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I would offer my in-laws place in Nantucket for 3.0, but, erm, hmm, yeah right.
However, I will over my place for an election-night Boston meetup. I think, but I'm not certain, that all the meat from the aborted meetup of 18 months ago has been disposed of.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:15 AM
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over = offer...


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:15 AM
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I don't know that 3.0 is necessary. Last night I went to hear Christo and Jeanne-Claude at the Phillips. They were touting their latest work -- to cover a stretch of river in Colorado, the first art-work to require an Environmental Impact Statement -- but in the Q&A someone asked why their pieces are only left up for two weeks and Jeanne-Claude had a very nice answer about impermanence inspires love and tenderness. I loved UFDC 1, Others have only good memories of UFDC 2. Let's stop while we're ahead.

Jim, if people around here had that attitude, this blog wouldn't exist anymore.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:19 AM
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Apropos of nothing, I'd like to note that Ana Marie Cox is a huge dipshit.


Posted by: inaccessible island rail | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:20 AM
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229: I didn't want to shoot you in the gut and take your wallet, I wanted you to just give it to me as a present. Don't judge me on my actions, judge me on other people's failure to live up to my unreasonable expectations.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:27 AM
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I liked Cox's work during her ass-fucking period, but she's gone to the bad.

It's tremendously indicative that one of the few bloggers who got elevated to the legit, big-time, big-money media was the ass-fucking lady (as opposed, for example, to Digby or Hamsher or Billmon or Alterman or Greenwald or Yglesias or......)

And the other one was Jonah Goldberg.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:27 AM
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UDConNW will presumably go on as usual, time and place to be determined. Last year it was just Emerson and I, but wherever two or three are gathered in Unfogged's name, Unfogged is there among them.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:27 AM
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231 - I think her elevation is due to the fact that she's the right kind of people (solidly middle class Washington insider) and she's good looking, which always helps with media stuff. Goldberg is straight up nepotism.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:31 AM
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I won't be there until March or April, alas. Maybe we can work out a Minneapolis gathering.

Cox is from Kansas, but she networks well.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:33 AM
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A UK Unfogged meetup would be sadly underpopulated.

ogged might actually show up though, just to be contrary.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:36 AM
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I know Davis isn't the world's most convenient place, but unless there's a way for us to have a real do in SF, we would be delighted to host. It's a three-bedroom house with a yard, lots of parking. We're happy to pick people up from the BART, especially if we have some help, and people are welcome to crash at the apartment, or, if you're fancy, at one of the local hotels. At any rate, it would be nice to see some West Coast people.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:36 AM
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UDConNW will presumably go on as usual, time and place to be determined.

I would be interested in attending UDConNW at some point.

I still think that UDConNW should be in summer to take advantage of the long evenings.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:40 AM
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What's so remarkable about Cox's advocacy for McCain is just how unselfconsciously she apes the very caricature of the elbow-rubbing, cocktail-party-working, in-it-for-the-barbecue lovestruck horserace stenographer. Surely Cox isn't so cut off from the outside world that she hasn't heard this standard liberal media critique dozens of times by now. To hear your critics say "you only like this politician because he acts nice to you" and respond to it with "yes, but he acts so nice to me" displays an incredible capacity for stupid.

I liked Cox's work during her ass-fucking period, but she's gone to the bad.

I tend to think Wonkette got much better after she left, actually; there was a fairly dire stretch of time when the blog had slowly turned into a painfully liveblogged job search ("here I am on a media panel! here I am having lunch with a publisher! here I am on another media panel!").


Posted by: inaccessible island rail | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:46 AM
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237: We were supposed to have one in August, you'll remember, but ogged bogued.*

*Canada Dry!


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:46 AM
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for example, to Digby or Hamsher or Billmon or Alterman or Greenwald or Yglesias

Big Media Matt is giving a presentation at my alma Mater. I'm thinking about going. Should I heckle?
http://www.claremontmckenna.edu/mmca/cur_fall_08.php


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:52 AM
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What's so remarkable about Cox's advocacy for McCain is just how unselfconsciously she apes the very caricature of the elbow-rubbing, cocktail-party-working, in-it-for-the-barbecue lovestruck horserace stenographer. Surely Cox isn't so cut off from the outside world that she hasn't heard this standard liberal media critique dozens of times by now.

she's heard it but she doesn't care. It's called being a sellout. Just because something is a cliche doesn't mean it doesn't exist, quite the reverse in fact.

The DC political media world is seductive -- access, money, gossip -- but it does require adopting an almost completely different set of values.

People in the econ and business press have an easier time resisting this (they have values of the econ and business world, which is heavily propaganda-ridden as well but at some level values knowledge of the world more than celebrity access).


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 11:10 AM
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I don't understand 236. (Apartment? BART to Davis?)


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 11:12 AM
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I think she means BART to the nearest stop, and be picked up from there.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 11:15 AM
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In fact, I know so.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 11:16 AM
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BART connects to Amtrak to Davis. You can totally get between SF and Davis by train alone, no car needed.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 11:21 AM
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Cox always worked for the market. She effortlessly switched from the ironic smut market to the conventional wisdom village.

I have been told that it would be wrong to suggest that she screwed her way to the top, but given her goals and values, she would have been wrong not to do that.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 11:22 AM
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Wait, since when is AWB in Davis?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 11:22 AM
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Visiting friends. Jesus, pay attention!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 11:23 AM
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So not only do I have to read the thread, but I also have to remember what I've read? Harsh.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 11:27 AM
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Amtrak? There is some magical land where Amtrak trains come more often than twice a day?

Yeah, I guess there probably is.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 11:27 AM
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The Capitol Corridor runs roughly every hour and a half, and you can get drunk on the train.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 11:29 AM
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Davis totally sucks. The cops might pull you over for biking under the influence. Public transportation is no good, since it's run by students.

Also, if there's more than one non-white non-Asian person, they might decide that you're a vagrant.

Also, the one cool thing about Davis was that there was no open container law. Now, not so much.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 11:34 AM
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Will nobody stand up for Davis?

It's not thaaat bad.*

It's true that we have overactive cops, yes, and that you might be pulled over on your bike. But in the five years I've been bicycling drunk, never have I been stopped (perhaps I shouldn't admit that, but there you go). And really, seeing as the population of bicyclists is far greater than in most towns of our size, I think it's a small price to pay for the many amenities Davis offers bikers.

Plus, none of that really applies to the function of having a house party. Then, it's all about the company, not the location, no?

*In the end, of course, I am forced to concede that compared to San Francisco or Boston or even Santa Cruz, Davis does indeed suck.


Posted by: Davis Lurker | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 12:14 PM
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the many amenities Davis offers bikers.

Flatness?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 12:17 PM
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Anyplace in California is better than Boston. Except I guess the Inland Empire. And Bakersfield.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 12:22 PM
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254: Indeed.

And overpasses and trails and bike crossing signals and free air for your tires.

Oh, wait, I'm coming off way too earnest here, aren't I? Regardless, it's a nice place to bike.


Posted by: Davis Lurker | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 12:23 PM
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In San Francisco, they have free air for your lungs. Fact.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 12:26 PM
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257: And it is nice, cool air with the bite of the sea in it, I suppose?

Don't remind me. I miss the coast.


Posted by: Davis Lurker | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 12:29 PM
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minivet, Cyrus, PGD, togolosh.

Is that enough for a DC election night meetup? I'm inclined to say yes.

Location? I'm game for a bar somewhere in the hip section of town if nobody has the wherewithal to host.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 1:58 PM
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259
Location?

How about Timberlake's? It's a bar/restaurant on Connecticut Ave near Dupont Circle.

It's not my first choice just because I'm relatively familiar with it and would like to see new places, but it's a perfectly nice place if no one else has any preference. I know it just because it's the site of Drinking Liberally.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 2:06 PM
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So the place I was thinking of is available for the 29th or the 30th (well, the smaller of the two rooms is available for the 30th). I'd guess based on the number of people who've expressed interest that it'd cost ~$50/person (although the more people who show, the less it'll cost). I don't know if folks are willing to shell out that much.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 2:50 PM
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260 - I've only been to DCDL once, but I sort of know the place. I wonder if there will be a DCDL thing there on election night(?) worth checking before making plans. Other than that it's fine with me.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 2:57 PM
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election-night Boston meetup

Alas! I will be in San Diego.

I mean, alas for my Boston-peeps-seeing. Yay for my Tweety-seeing!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 7:34 PM
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Other than AWB and me, will there be any other unfogged people at the MLA?


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 7:35 PM
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263: You know, somehow I'd thought you two were in the same town now.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 7:45 PM
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Me, but I may not be available for frolicking.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 7:47 PM
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Redfox! No!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 7:48 PM
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Okay, I will try!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 7:53 PM
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265: We're temporarily on different coasts. Booooo.

266: I don't know what my frolicking availability will be either. But I'll be there the entire time, and may end up with only one or two interviews. If I don't get any I'll cancel my trip.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 7:53 PM
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Blume cares more about Tweety than she cares about all internet traditions? I see some real moral weakness there.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 7:54 PM
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Obvs. the thing to do is extend your stay (if it happens, which of course it will) a day.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 7:58 PM
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Blume cares more about Tweety than she cares about all internet traditions?

We've been arguing about whether to cut that line from the vows.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 8:03 PM
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I got a new shipment of beans today. However, I will not be able to cook any of them for a little while, because I have to co-run a conference this weekend. Indeed, I should go to bed soon, in preparation for early mornings.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 8:06 PM
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272: Til the necessary and appropriate cessation of masturbation do we part?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 8:09 PM
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My flights are between Boston and SF, and the return isn't until after the new year. I don't know if I'll be in SF that entire time, or if I'll go down to TweetyTown for part of it. Meetup plans will surely play a part in the planning!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 8:23 PM
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Election night? You mean you people won't be exhausted from escorting voters to vote, or exhorting them, or some such? Your going to be spectators?

Inauguration is great fun, especially if they have the thing with the bands in the tents on the Mall. And if our team wins, this will be a big damn deal.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 8:25 PM
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I believe that I'll be in Germany for the turn of the year, and the traditional date of UFDC. German meetup, anyone?


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 8:26 PM
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I thought SEK was also going to be in town for MLA, although I don't know if he counts as Unfogged people at this point.

How many people are interested in a meetup, anyway? I may have overestimated the interest, in which case our options for venues open up substantially.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 8:45 PM
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I think a post specifically to gauge interest is in order.

I will do that ... tomorrow!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 8:46 PM
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Looking for something else entirely, I happened across and remembered this. Not quite a 19th century UFDC:

As among Chaucer's Canterbury pilgrims, or those oriental ones crossing the Red Sea towards Mecca in the festival month, there was no lack of variety. Natives of all sorts, and foreigners; men of business and men of pleasure; parlor men and backwoodsmen; farm-hunters and fame-hunters; heiress-hunters, gold-hunters, buffalo-hunters, bee-hunters, happiness-hunters, truth-hunters, and still keener hunters after all these hunters. Fine ladies in slippers, and moccasined squaws; Northern speculators and Eastern philosophers; English, Irish, German, Scotch, Danes; Santa Fé traders in striped blankets, and Broadway bucks in cravats of cloth of gold; fine-looking Kentucky boat-men, and Japanese-looking Mississippi cotton-planters; Quakers in full drab, and United States soldiers in full regimentals; slaves, black, mulatto, quadroon; modish young Spanish Creoles, and old-fashioned French Jews; Mormons and Papists; Dives and Lazarus; jesters and mourners, teetotalers and convivialists, deacons and blacklegs; hard-shell Baptists and clay-eaters; grinning negroes, and Sioux chiefs solemn as high-priests. In short, a piebald parliament, an Anacharsis Cloots congress of all kinds of that multiform pilgrim species, man.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 8:49 PM
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I believe that I'll be in Germany for the turn of the year, and the traditional date of UFDC. German meetup, anyone?

What part? Rory will be there with UNG and the future Mrs.. UNG during that timeframe and I've toyed with stalking them visiting some friends at the same time.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 9:01 PM
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Current thinking is Xmas to the first weekend of '09. Saarland mostly, but this evening our houseguest raised the possibility of return hospitality near the Bodensee.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 9:09 PM
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(We're hosting for 2 months a German grad student who's writing daily features about the election for a Swiss paper, and also writing her thesis on religion & politics).


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 9:11 PM
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Hmmm. Munchkin will be in NRW, but friends are in Stuttgart... If I go for it, surely a meetup could be arranged...


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 9:16 PM
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Inauguration is great fun, especially if they have the thing with the bands in the tents on the Mall. And if our team wins, this will be a big damn deal.

Though it wouldn't be anything like fun, if McCain somehow wins then surely inaugural room reservations in DC will suddenly be easy to come by sometime around 1am on the morning of 5 November.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 10-17-08 10:33 PM
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We're hosting for 2 months a German grad student and so we've decided to adopt German word order.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-18-08 5:37 AM
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One must sometimes as one feels it say.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-18-08 6:14 AM
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||

Here's Simone's debate story, by the way. She going with me to Montana for election day; I wonder if she shouldn't go to NC in late October. Any views?

|>


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-18-08 6:22 AM
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Or maybe Texas?


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-18-08 6:43 AM
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Will nobody stand up for Davis?

I was raised there (a long time ago). If you want a nice, friendly, boring, safe place to raise kids, Davis is it. And it is flat, and thus a good pace to ride a bike. What this has to do with planning a social event involving grown-ups, I am unsure.


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 10-18-08 8:13 AM
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There's a lot more sprawl in Davis now than there was 30 or 40 years ago.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-18-08 8:29 AM
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Bodensee! That's AB's ancestral homeland, and she's quite close to family there (Bregenz and nearby countryside). In all seriousness, we would have looked into emigrating there in event of electoral disaster - one of her cousins is an architect. Actually, her uncle was a master carpenter there, and if the timing of things had been a bit different, we might have gone there so I could apprentice under him.

That said, we will not be available for a meetup there this Xmas. Conceivably next year, tho - AB's dad spends alternate Xmases with his sister there, and we've occasionally toyed with the idea.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-18-08 8:35 AM
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There's a lot more sprawl in Davis now than there was 30 or 40 years ago.

True. On the other hand, it is surprising that there is not a whole lot more. The last time I was there (a year or two ago), the eastern edge of town in the part north of the interstate was a subdivision that was in the planning stage when I left Davis 35 years ago, and probably only a mile from where I lived then (which was on the edge of town, then). Nor has it grown much to the west beyond what was envisioned then (although some gaps have been filled in).


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 10-18-08 8:40 AM
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288: You'd have to warn her about Apo, Charley.

That's the answer you wanted, right?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-18-08 9:13 AM
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Maybe Simone should go interview some bitter Pennsylvanians.

We're just talking about her schedule -- tomorrow she's tagging along to my son's hockey practice to meet some members of that most exotic (especially to Europeans) of new demographics.

Beats talking to other journalists, which seems to be SOP.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-18-08 9:41 AM
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Been so long, I can't remember when
I've been to Davis and I want to go back again...


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 10-18-08 10:25 AM
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