Re: Over

1

Awesome. Gobama!


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:27 PM
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Wooohooo!!!!


Posted by: ninjaphilosopher | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:28 PM
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I'm so greedy. Virginia and Florida aren't enough. I want Arizona and Colorado and Montana and I WANT THEM ALL!!


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:28 PM
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Thank fuck for that.


Posted by: Martin Wisse | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:29 PM
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McCain's speech was pretty good, until he mentioned African-Americans.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:30 PM
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WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:31 PM
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McCain is rambling.


Posted by: BooBoo | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:31 PM
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woooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhoooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hook 'em Obama!!!!!!!


Posted by: chopper | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:31 PM
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Just drove through UPitt - lots of students running, whooping, honking.

My neighb, sounds rather like celebratory gunfire, but I'm not sure.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:32 PM
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Hope is kindled.


Posted by: disaggregated | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:32 PM
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11

HARTGESOTTENEN KOMMENTATOREN STEIGEN TRÄNEN IN DIE AUGEN


Posted by: OPINIONATED FAZ GUY | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:33 PM
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Now that's what I'm talking about.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:34 PM
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I want Arizona and Colorado and Montana and I WANT THEM ALL!!

AMEN!

max
['WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:34 PM
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I'm so happy. Now I just want Al Franken to win Minnesota.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:35 PM
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Any news on Prop 8?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:37 PM
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actually this speech got a little long, but he's quite classy. the crowd on on the other hand...


Posted by: ninjaphilosopher | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:37 PM
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Actually, this speech is rather gracious.

Any news on Prop 8?

4% precincts in, it's up 14%.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:38 PM
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I appreciate all his calls for unity and coming together. Also his quieting of the crowd.


Posted by: ninjaphilosopher | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:38 PM
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Also his quieting of the crowd.

Indeed.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:40 PM
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LB, you misspelled "prop 8 to go down in flames." Those fuckers called us THREE times between 6 and 7:30.

This still isn't sinking in, even with the shot of Palin crying.


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:42 PM
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John Lewis is not the best speaker, which is a shame.


Posted by: ninjaphilosopher | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:42 PM
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McCain's speech is actually pretty good. Too bad this isn't actually the guy who ran for president.


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:43 PM
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I am distinctly Becks-style but I note that NC, if not a win, will be EXTREMELY close. Motherfuckers. Also I'd like it if everyone pretends they don't hear an unzipping noise as McCain concedes and Palin sheds bitter, bitter tears because I am going to be touching myself while I watch that on the ol' TiVo.

I uncorked a bottle of fake champagne on the front porch when they called the west coast at 11. Rah and katmandu and her husband and I finished off the bottle in minutes as fireworks went off nearby. America: Fuck Yeah.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:45 PM
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NC & Indiana are going to finally drop for Obama soon. MO is closing up fast for O.

Emerging R line after hearing Rove being quasi-gracious on CNN: Obama is really really black and he really really won, so we need to cut spending and taxes because a black President and tax increases together are just too much to take at one time.

Also: I think Palin really believed they were going to win.

max
['Blech. Now we get the official rise of the neo-confederate party.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:46 PM
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I can't feel my nose! I just scratched it because it itched and it felt like scratching someone else's nose.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:46 PM
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KRISTON SAYS HOOK 'EM FUCKING WOO!!!!1!

(THIS IS BECKS. WE'RE DRINKING A LOT HOOKEM BECKS! FLOPHOUSE DRUNK)


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:50 PM
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Tonightm, we ar eall Becks-style.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:51 PM
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Not only am I slightly Becks style, my son Julian decided to celebrate the election of Barack Obama by taking a pretty serious dump in my lap. And the diaper held! It's a good night.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:53 PM
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Congratulations, my imaginary American friends.


Posted by: Amit | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:55 PM
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I kan haz unicorn?


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 9:57 PM
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DIEBOLD SUX HAHA 2 BAD 4 U STUPID VOTIN MACHINZ


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:03 PM
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I am so happy. Tears-streaming-down-the-face happy. All I ask for is love, and sometimes, I get it.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:06 PM
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I bet McCain's concession speech was written by Mark Salter. Salter was the angel on one shoulder that McCain has ignored since he won the nomination. Rick Davis and Steve Schmidt are the devils on the other shoulder.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:06 PM
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Bunch of folks down in front of the White House yelling USA! USA! USA!

Kewl.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:07 PM
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Nice color coordination on the Obamas!


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:08 PM
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Early California results don't look so good on the propositions, but apparently they're from mostly conservative areas.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:09 PM
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Oh my gods, Obama is totally going to make this drunk man cry.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:12 PM
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If it was Salter, he must have convinced McCain that he needed to damp down his crazies.

It will be interesting to see which media people go the bitter-ender route and start talking about ACORN stealing the election. Limbaugh, probably O'Reilly, the blogger crazies, probably Krauthammer and Buchanan.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:12 PM
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I was doing fine until the grandmother bit. Now I'm getting a blubbery.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:14 PM
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PUPPY.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:15 PM
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The Minnesota races are 50% counted and all just moved in the wrong direction. But there's still time.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:16 PM
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Obama just said "enormity" for "enormousness." Pedants everywhere might reconsider their votes.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:17 PM
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damn this is GOOD!


Posted by: ninjaphilosopher | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:18 PM
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40: That line made me oooo. They're getting a puppy.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:18 PM
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42. I had no idea that enormity was incorrect. Why?


Posted by: ninjaphilosopher | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:19 PM
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Consensus in this household is that "enormity" has evolved to mean "largeness" rather than "heinousness" but I can't get behind it.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:20 PM
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28: I just took a giant dump too! Obama!

"Enormity" is wrong, but I still love this man, as an English instructor.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:22 PM
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45: enormity, or so the pedants say, means something more like "state of being outside the norm", i.e. of being shockingly immoral, rather than "bigness". Insert pre/de-scriptivist debate here.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:24 PM
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"enormity" = "monster"


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:25 PM
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Alright, I didn't cry at all tonight until he started hitting the Yes We Can.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:25 PM
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I am fucking loving this fucking speech!

max
['WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:25 PM
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Unfortunately I'm somewhat too drunk to properly appreciate good speechifying.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:26 PM
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OK looks like it may be the only state in the union to go every county for McCain.

Fuck you, OK. You fucking Sooner fucks.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:26 PM
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Damn.

Sign me up for that!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:29 PM
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I woke up at 4 am, staggered downstairs and switched on the radio to hear McCain conceding. Now I am sitting in the kitchen, 53 years old, stone sober, with tears drying on my cheeks. History hasn't felt this good since 1989. Oh, I know it will all go wrong in the end. But just this morning, the news that the lunatics have been driven from the cockpit is glorious, even if the plane has lost two engines.

Do you motherfuckers realise what it means to the world to have a president elected form the America we believe in?


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:29 PM
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Yeah, some tears here too. And some beers. Wish I had a ladyfirend to share this with. Also caught the "enormity" thing but I guess I trust in barack enough for the moment that I thought may be he was write and I was wrong.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:31 PM
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Obama has this almost human way of sounding like he both understands and believes the words coming out of his mouth. Been a long eight years coming.


Posted by: sam k | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:31 PM
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48: coulda been what he meant.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:31 PM
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"Enormity" bothered me. Also, he claimed to have the "best campaign team in the history of politics." I find that unlikely.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:33 PM
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Watching that Kenyan music video someone linked to earlier, I couldn't help but think what this means not just for us, but everyone everywhere. I think this election has the power to be the symbol that the US needed to say, no, really, we are capable of good things--multiculturalism, populism, economic opportunity, class mobility, etc. You really can make a difference in the world, and so forth. These are not just American platitudes. This is the basis on which the country was founded.

We have a lot to atone for, but we also do have something to offer.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:35 PM
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Do you motherfuckers realise what it means to the world to have a president elected form the America we believe in?

Yeah, we do. It's definitely a big part of it.


Also, he claimed to have the "best campaign team in the history of politics." I find that unlikely.

I find it almost incontrovertible.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:36 PM
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Jesse Jackson was crying like a baby. He was there on the balcony when MLK was shot. Now he's seeing a black man elected president. He gets a lot of shit from the media and from the right and even from the wishy-washy left, but he's helped move the ball down the field and he helped make this possible.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:37 PM
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I find it almost incontrovertible.

Word.

I am totally enjoying this feeling of stunned joy.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:37 PM
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Obama could have had Rick Davis and Steve Schmidt, and he still would have won easily. It's easy to look like a genius when everything goes your way.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:37 PM
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I find it almost incontrovertible.

I agree. The intarwebs were a big factor, but it didn't hurt that his campaign used them to the hilt. I've never felt like so many people could be so informed so easily, not just because of the technology, but because of the way the campaign used that technology. Plus, the old-school call-and-visit campaign was incredible.

I want to personally thank all of you who donated your time and energy to this campaign. I donated a little money, but stopped there. It was you guys who won this.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:39 PM
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62: Seeing Jackson cry almost killed me. It looked like it had taken him by surprise, which made it more poignant.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:39 PM
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62: Jackson lost me when he sided against Barack. I wonder now how much of that was just fear that a black man couldn't get elected.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:39 PM
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67: Given what Jackson has seen and been through, a lack of faith in the bulk of the American people to set aside prejudice and bigotry seems to me forgivable.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:41 PM
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64: In the General, you have a point. But that team also beat Hilary, which was huge.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:41 PM
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Can I totally note how awesome the "New Game" graphic is? Also, I resisted the urge to masturbate during McCain's concession. Palin's whole faux not-crying-but-crying thing was awesome.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:43 PM
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It's weird--I'm very happy, but much more subdued than I expected to be. I think I was more excited in 1996. The speech wasn't even getting me until the yes we can bit. Maybe I'm just too sober?


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:43 PM
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Best part of the speech: we're getting a new first puppy! I'm psyched.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:43 PM
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I just keep repeating: holy shit, Obama is really going to be our president. I mean, I've known this for weeks, or at least been very confident of it, but it's really real. Holy shit. This is amazing.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:44 PM
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I love the graphic, too.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:44 PM
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Fucking A. Good thing we buy our Kleenex at Costco. That was quite a speech. One bottle decent champagne, mostly over, along with some very nice terrorist food (OK, Indian, but we let on it was Pakistani). Then that speech. I think the kitten teared up a little bit too.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:44 PM
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Meanwhile, in SF politics, Prop K (decrim. prostitution) is failing by pretty big margins.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:44 PM
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(you know what really gets me, is the crowd shots at various locations.)


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:45 PM
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Best part of the speech: we're getting a new first puppy!

I especially liked how he told the girls they'd earned that. I am imagining how proud those kids must feel.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:45 PM
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Barney has been a shitty-ass first critter.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:48 PM
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Amen. Hallelujah. Amen.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:49 PM
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Maybe I'm just too sober?

Always a possibility.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:49 PM
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I wonder what kind of puppy it'll be?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:51 PM
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Oh please oh please oh please let it be a bulldog.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:55 PM
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Cute puppy picture of my boy.

max
['He could do worse than a dachshund.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:56 PM
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German shepherd, says I.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:56 PM
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A Pit Bull. With Lipstick.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:57 PM
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Banned. With extreme prejudice.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:58 PM
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Actually, I second the Dachshund sentiment. They are awesome little bastards. For dogs. Obama should have gotten a cat. Or a ferret, just to piss of Guiliani.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:59 PM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:59 PM
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I'm glad that this is the place for word/usage/grammar issues and for obama celebrating. Not that I'm surprised


Posted by: ninjaphilosopher | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 10:59 PM
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57 & 75: I will admit it, he got to me and I totally thought my assiduously cultivated cynicism would make me immune He came across the way my parents described FDR as being able to do, as talking directly to each listener and addressing their particular concerns.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:05 PM
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Also, from the now it can be told file: at campus tour guide training, my son was shown where a certain former student etched "King Obama" in the wet concrete many years ago, when he was totally planning to stick it to Whitey when he grew up. Good thing no one told Hillary.

My champagne galss has fallen on the floor. Fortunately, it was empty.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:09 PM
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I have only one thing to say: WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:09 PM
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Man I listened that speech and I thought "well, shit, does this mean I have to get a civil service job? I guess I could go build solar arrays or something."


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:09 PM
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I fell asleep at 10:45 or so and just woke up at 12:30. I'm not really excited, just relieved.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:11 PM
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I missed teh speech. I'm going to have to watch that online once daylight comes.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:12 PM
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California results. Thankfully the LA Times site seems to be working; the CA secretary of state doesn't seem to be able to handle the traffic.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:12 PM
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Too bad about Prop K.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:14 PM
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92: that should totally go in his presidential library.

In other Now It Can Be Told news: rumor has it Chicago just took a big lead in the competition to land the 2016 summer games.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:15 PM
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Jesse Jackson was crying like a baby.

I kept wishing someone would give him a big ol' hug.


Posted by: dob | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:23 PM
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Can Bush just leave now?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:26 PM
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101: You can just see the signs in Lafayette Park -- "Get out of Barack's house!"


Posted by: Klug | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:28 PM
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101: Can't we at least tar and feather him first?


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:29 PM
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North Carolina is insanely tight. Can RMMP or Apo go vote again?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:33 PM
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Prop 4, parental notification for abortion is losing, but Prop 8 is winning. High speed rail is close, and farm animals are winning big. Only about 25% reporting so far.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:37 PM
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105: The one thing that gives me hope on Prop 8 is that the major population centers are still mostly under 20% reported.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:39 PM
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Yeah, I think 8 can still lose. What does 9 do? I'm surprised to see it doing so well.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:41 PM
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Also: very early yet, but first printout locally has it at 75-23 for Obama. Unfortunately, DC gave him over 90%. Bastards. And local results will probably slip a bit.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:42 PM
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100 of 100 counties reporting with a slim, 11,000 vote lead. That's 110 votes per county. NC probably just went blue and either way I am so insanely proud.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:43 PM
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104: Indeed, it is a historic night: "Apo" and "insanely tight" have appeared in the same paragraph.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:43 PM
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High-speed rail takes the lead.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:44 PM
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Anyone know the recount rules for the Virginia Congressional races? Perriello's sitting on a thin lead over Goode (~1000 votes in a 300,000 total-vote race). If Perriello wins, everyone I voted for today won.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:49 PM
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MSNBC just called the race for Bachmann. Damn. Chris Matthews hopes she'll come back on the show.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:51 PM
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And now MSNBC is quoting TPM saying Rahm Emmanuel will be chief of staff.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:53 PM
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High-speed rail takes the lead.

Such a boondoggle.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:54 PM
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114: I don't buy it. Wait, unless you mean Bachmann's chief of staff?

Obama's chief of staff my money's on Daschle.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:55 PM
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Children's hospitals also now in the lead in California. Won't someone think of the children?

Meanwhile, 7 and 10 - a complicated renewable energy something or other and the Boone Pickens prop - are both going down. So is 5, which seems like a good idea (more emphasis on rehab over prison for drug offenses), but too much for a prop.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 4-08 11:59 PM
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Wow. What a great speech. I'm a little drunk and I can't sleep.

At the poll closing in Virginia at 7 PM, I was standing there with some other Obama volunteers, and I said to one..."this is sort of weirdly anti-climactic. The Republicans driven from power, the first black President, but this is still the same country, the same place, isn't it?". (Yes, bitches, I always knew Obama would win). He answered "Yeah, that's exactly the point -- this is still the same country". DEEP, MAN, DEEP! GOD BLESS AMERICA!

I listened that speech and I thought "well, shit, does this mean I have to get a civil service job?

Don't worry, they also serve who make lots of money in the private sector and then pay confiscatory taxes.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:08 AM
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And now MSNBC is quoting TPM saying Rahm Emmanuel will be chief of staff.

Let's hope not. Terrible choice if so. As psycho and fly-off-the-handle as Obama is calm and measured. Daschle would be miles better.

Obama hasn't proven his personnel judgement yet. The worst moment in the speech was when Joe Biden walked out onto the stage and instantly punctured the rhetorical balloon simply by the force of his innate dorkiness.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:12 AM
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Mahoney loses. Wasn't he an Emmanuel choice?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:14 AM
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Cory Booker, for the win, on MSNBC: "I reject the idea of a post-racial America. I want to luxuriate in the racial deliciousness of our country: the Italian-Americans, the Irish-Americans, the Mexican-Americans. I mean, that's what makes America great. We are a nation that celebrates racial diversity. We're not Norway. We're not South Korea. We are the United States of America. The story of America is bringing such differences together to manifest a united set of ideals, not a united culture, not a united language, not a united religion, but a united set of ideals. That was what made America dramatic when it was founded, the first country of its kind in humanity. So I reject that [the idea of a post-racial America]. I want to celebrate all of America: its richness, its diversity, its deliciousness."


Posted by: a | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:14 AM
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The worst moment in the speech was when Joe Biden walked out onto the stage

That wasn't a moment in "the speech," the speech was over. He couldn't very well keep the man off-stage all night.

I think given the success of the campaign, Obama's personnel judgment is looking pretty good so far. Remember when Joe Biden was supposed to be the disastrous VP pick that would sink all hopes of victory?


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:20 AM
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Mahoney loses. Wasn't he an Emmanuel choice?

Yep, he was an "electable" Republican that Emmanuel parachuted into the race to replace the actual Democrat once the seat seemed winnable.


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:23 AM
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MSNBC calls Indiana for Obama.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:29 AM
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"I'm sorry, Sasha and Malia, but you weren't adorable enough. Maybe in four years you can have that puppy."


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:38 AM
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Fuckin' A, finally. NC is 100% with Obama in the lead, but we're holding out on the absentee ballots, dammit.

Down to the wire in MO.

I am really really really bothered by the way the numbers behaved in VA, NC, MO and IN, and that leaves me wondering just how much fraud occurred in MS and GA.

Remember when Joe Biden was supposed to be the disastrous VP pick that would sink all hopes of victory?

Well, I said I liked Joe, I said I was very worried that the pick would open the door to McCain working a DC-centric strategy and then... McCain shoved a stick of dynamite up his own ass and lit it off with the Palin pick.

Biden was a good pick for VP from governance point of view, but I still think there were a coupla % points left on the election table due to that choice. That said, I think it's fair to say that strategically it worked well in combination with the Palin pick because the combo shifted the DC establishment against McCain.

It's better to be lucky than to be good, or so they tell me.

max
['So, I'll take it.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:40 AM
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Biden doesn't necessarily cost points in an election, it's just that he's...Joe Biden. I sentence all of you to listening to him talk until you understand exactly what I'm saying.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:48 AM
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I want to luxuriate in the racial deliciousness of our country: the Italian-Americans

My sister overheard this in South Philly:

"Who'd you vote for?"

"I didn't vote for no blackie."


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:48 AM
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Jesus Christ, from Alaska SoS site, Stevens up by 3K with 66% of the precincts reporting. The fucking commies up there don't have counties, so no way of knowing the breakdown between the whacked parts of the state versus the totally fucking whacked parts. (And Young is up by a lot more.)

Let's sell the fucking place to the Russkies.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:59 AM
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I'll save my Prop 8 canvassing stories for tomorrow, once we know whether we lost in a massacre or a squeaker.

I oughta be happier, but, you know.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:09 AM
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The 11 year old watched the coverage whilst eating breakfast and has now gone to school happy. The 8 year old's up, and watching a repeat of Obama's victory speech again, with the 6 year old bragging that she saw it live.

JFK had a Welsh Terrier.

Some pundit has just said that Obama has wiped out the USA's original sin! The Messiah, NOT the Antichrist after all!


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:26 AM
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I'm a contrarian.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:33 AM
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According to the AP:

Blacks turning out in droves to support Obama also threw their support strongly behind Proposition 8, which would overturn the state Supreme Court decision allowing gay marriage. Opposition to the ban held a slight edge among whites, while Lations and Asians were split.

Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:39 AM
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"But the elation felt by party leaders Tuesday night was tempered by lingering questions about the allegiance of four Democratic senators from New York City who have so far refused to rule out crossing party lines to support Senator Dean G. Skelos, a Nassau County Republican, as Senate majority leader.

The four Democrats -- Pedro Espada Jr. and Rubén Díaz Sr. of the Bronx, Carl Kruger of Brooklyn and Hiram Monserrate of Queens -- have said they might not back Mr. Smith."

!


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:44 AM
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Obama is nearing the Bush's total vote from 2004. I can't wait to not hear about how more people voted for Bush than for any other president ever.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:46 AM
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the


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:47 AM
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Tonight sucked: a million drunk people in the Mission, and with how many of them do I go home? None. Even though I myself am extremely drunk.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:47 AM
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The first disappointment of the Obama administration - not urging black people to vote no on 8.


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:47 AM
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but we also do have something to offer.

It's almost certain that this could not have happened in Europe. I give it 20 years before a black or Asian PM/President is electable anywhere on the continent (inc. Britain, Ireland). But boy will this help!

You did a good thing there, people.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:48 AM
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You Brits are still 140 years ahead of us in allowing a Jew in the top executive office, though.

On the other hand, the Confederate States of America had an exemplary record in that respect as well. ZING POW!


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:52 AM
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I would also like to say that here in the heart of Fake America, at the corner of 16th and Valencia, a stranger led me and mine in several renditions of the national anthem, "This Land is Your Land", and one other patriotic tune whose name I've forgotten. 16th between Valencia and Guerrero was also the site of much chanting of "USA".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:52 AM
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We may allow ourselves a brief period of rejoicing; but let us not forget for a moment the toil and efforts that lie ahead... We must now devote all our strength and resources to the completion of our task, both at home and abroad.


Posted by: Winston Churchill | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:56 AM
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chanting of "USA"

First executive order of the Obama Administration: seriously, don't chant "USA" unless we're playing ice hockey against the Soviets in the 1980s; and even then, probably you shouldn't. It's annoying.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:57 AM
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Me being tacky #1: While the Obama vs. Kerry support among whites generally up across the country in most places (and went up a lot in places in North Carolina) , Lousiana, Mississippi and Alabama showed their class by having white support drop by 7-8%.

Me being tacky #2: Larry Johnson being unintentionally hilarious: We also should not discount the amazing positive effect that Sarah Palin has in this outcome. .

Me being incredulous: Those fucking Alaskans are going to do it. Stevens lead is growing as the outlying votes arrive by snow machine.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:58 AM
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Also, while being up on and off all night, I defrosted my fridge. A brave new *clean* world.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:10 AM
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And I wandered over to Haight-Ashbury, where I watched the neighborhood's unkempt denizens wave the fucking stars and stripes in the middle of the street, as if this were fucking Real America, while strangers congratulated each other, friends hugged, and cars engaged in celebratory honking at every major intersection. I suppressed my fears for the future of this troubled world and my Midwestern reserve for long enough to let out a whoop or two.

It's really the kind of public celebration you don't usually see unless your local sports franchise has just won a championship.

I walked the length of Haight St., and then turned to walk up to City Hall, in case there were any spontaneous celebrations around there. Instead, I saw a squad car pull over and stop, the officer inside smiling and then getting out and going over to greet a group coming up the street. "I got married," the woman at the center of the group said to the officer. I presumed it was a last minute same-sex wedding, just in case 8 passed.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:30 AM
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140. CN, there is a totally believable alternative universe in which this would have been Joe Lieberman's year. Unusually, I prefer reality.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:37 AM
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Time to turn off the tv news. MSNBC just had some loser on to say that if Obama lets the Bush tax cuts expire it will be the largest tax increase in the history of the world. He think Emmanuel would be a good chief of staff. Great.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:49 AM
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I think the guy who predicted Obama with 349EVs and 52.4% of the popular vote in the prediction thread has earned some valuable bragging rights.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 4:48 AM
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Sadly, the guy who predicted that Prop 8 would go down in flames doesn't.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 4:59 AM
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150: Touché.

I was off pretty badly on my House projection, and I underestimated the Alaskan electorate's tolerance for gross corruption, but my prediction of a recount on the MN Senate race may yet be vindicated.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 5:43 AM
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Fucking California and its ballot initiatives, man.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 5:47 AM
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I wish somebody would explain to me what is the matter with California. They break 5/3 for Obama, they do the right thing on Props 5 and 7, and then they behave like savages on the marriage vote. Weird.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 5:55 AM
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well done you guys

the electoral college combined with the ten thousand types of voting machine, new and old, make for an awesome way for outlanders to learn about all the little bits of your country we don't usually hear about (the not-in-contention states are the ones we get most exposure to, normally)


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 5:58 AM
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I wish somebody would explain to me what is the matter with California. They break 5/3 for Obama, they do the right thing on Props 5 and 7, and then they behave like savages on the marriage vote. Weird.

I read something suggesting that it's because African-American voters, on the whole, are more likely to be conservative on gay-rights issues even when they are leftish on other civil rights, abortion, and the environment, and there was of course massive A-A turnout yesterday.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 5:59 AM
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154: The true purpose of the founding fathers is revealed!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 6:00 AM
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They did the right thing on Prop 5?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 6:07 AM
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157. Sorry, no they didn't - I read that wrong. OK on 4 though.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 6:11 AM
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Also, BG, while you're there, why is greyhound racing regarded as inhumane? Horse racing, sure, they beat the shit out of the animals, but the dogs just go for a run, and they're incredibly well looked after unless they do it differently here.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 6:16 AM
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I just looked at CNN's "Battleground States" page. They made it seem that these were the states which would elect the President. But they'd already given Obama all the Gore / Kerry states plus Nevada, Colorado, and Virginia, so they'd effectively given Obama the election. The "battleground states" only told you whether it would be a blowout or not.

As of dawn Obama has won Ohio, Florida and probably Indiana and North Carolina, and has lost Montana. North Dakota, and probably Missouri.

Screw Oregon and Minnesota. What a couple of shitholes. To say nothing of Alaska.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 6:16 AM
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I can't believe the Alaskans. He's gonna get kicked out though, so there will be a different Repub.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 6:16 AM
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I've been telling people how felon-friendly Alaska is. The convictions probably helped him.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 6:20 AM
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He's gonna get kicked out though, so there will be a different Repub.

It will be a special election, not an appointment. Probably Palin vs. Begich. You ready for six years of Sarah Palin in the US Senate?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 6:26 AM
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They're going nuts in Obama, Japan.


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 6:30 AM
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Apo, Palin is headed for the dustbin of history. Can you remember the name of Goldwater's running mate (don't look it up)?


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 6:36 AM
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Also, I'm upset by the prospect of a Rahm Emanuel pick. (relieved that McCain didn't win but pre-disappointed). Isn't he an ur-Clintonista?

paperwight had a post up calling him a soulless shitheel.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 6:43 AM
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I don't know, OFE. I guess that there have been a lot of injured dogs and most of them are euthanized at the end of their careers if they're not rescued. I couldn't get much information on it.

I think that it might also be vaguely classist. One of the tracks is going after the casino market, so it didn't bother to fight it, and there's only one other one. It was a dying business.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 6:52 AM
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At least a Rahm (Spaceknight) pick takes him out of the line of succession for Speaker of the House.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 6:55 AM
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Palin is headed for the dustbin of history.

She's still very popular in Alaska, where they'll elect convicted felons. I don't think it's any stretch to imagine she could win that Senate seat if she wants it.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:02 AM
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169. Maybe for a while. but wouldn't that actually be a good thing? The grey suits of the Republican Party have got to try to re-assemble a majority in a country which is moving away from them demographically. If, every time they try to look statesmanlike, they have this howling lunatic in Washington reminding everybody of the darkest days of the Bush years, it'll be a lot harder for them.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:14 AM
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If Stevens is forced to resign, Palin can appoint herself to the Senate.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:15 AM
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171: Only until they can hold a special election.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:20 AM
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i'm a racist dickhead


Posted by: ToS | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:28 AM
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I'm so exhausted and happy.

I'm kind of glad Missouri went for McCain so we can stop indulging them as a goddamn bellweather state and instead call them out-of-touch racists.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:31 AM
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174: by less than 6,000 votes, on the current count.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:33 AM
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How come they haven't called North Carolina yet if all the votes have been counted?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:33 AM
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Michelle Bachmann is actually more of a lunatic than Palin, and more or less equally cute. If one of the talk shows invited the two of them, plus maybe Jean Schmidt or Michelle Malkin or Atlas Shrugged Pam, and called it "The New Feminism", you'd have an instant classic.

Why didn't I compare Palin to guy Republican lunatics, of whom there are so many? Because I'm a sexist and a misogynist, that's why.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:36 AM
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Also, I'm upset by the prospect of a Rahm Emanuel pick.... Isn't he an ur-Clintonista?

Yes, but I wouldn't get too distraught about it. The WH COS is a powerful position (he controls access to the President), but it is not the major locus of policy making. How many domestic initiatives are John Sununu, Mac McLarty, Erskine Bowles, and Andy Card remembered for? The Panetta/Podesta model is more the exception than the rule.

The advantage of a guy like Rahm is that he can help push Obama's agenda on Capitol Hill. Rahm has a close relationship with the House leadership, as well as a reputation as a skullcracker among the membership, so he will be a valuable guy to have on the side of the Whitehouse. It's a classic example where you'd rather have the guy inside the tent pissing out than vice versa.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:38 AM
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Palin is cuter than Bachmann, you sexist.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:39 AM
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Bachmann has more of the Desperate Housewives demented horniness look about her.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:42 AM
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John, I thought you were supposed to be getting shut of Bachmann after the party bosses cut her loose. What went wrong? Also, how's Coleman/Franken going?


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:43 AM
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Rahm is worse than Clinton in my opinion. But he's very effective. Hopefully Obama is better than Rahm, and will whip him into submission.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:47 AM
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Basically, the Minnesota exurbs are as shitty and imbecile as all the other American exurbs. The liberal Wobegon of my imagination is something of a fictional construction. There were three vulnerable Republicans in the state and it seems that all three pulled through.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:49 AM
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If Stevens is forced to resign, Palin can appoint herself to the Senate.

I think she has to appoint her daughter, like Governor Murkowski did when he had to cease being senator because he had just been elected governor.

Also, how's Coleman/Franken going?

It appears that Coleman is winning by 571 votes out of 2,800,000 cast.


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:49 AM
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I have to say, waking up to hear that Prop 8 is winning pretty much cancelled out all my WOOBAMA.

WTF is wrong with you, CA?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:51 AM
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176: Possibly because the margin is narrow enough that they want to wait for the absentee and provisional ballots to be fully counted.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:52 AM
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If Emmanuel is supposed to bully the caucus into line with Obama's policy priorities, it's okay & better than him being in line for speakership. If he has any, and I mean any, influence on policy--including influence on which policies are seen as too politically dangerous to try--it's a horrendous pick & the stories about it are one of the main reasons I'm only a tiny bit as excited about this as I expected to be. (Though, the main reason is probably that I'm a huge, burned out, cranky pregnant lady with no energy.).


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:54 AM
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To put their hands on the arc of history, and bend it once more toward a better day

Obama has a real knack for talking about race more-or-less under the radar. Among the other techniques he's appropriated from the rightwing, he has invented the liberal dogwhistle.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:55 AM
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We didn't turn Montana blue, I'm sorry to say. Won Hill County, though, which isn't quite nothing.

Fucking Alaskans.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:55 AM
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Also, while Prop 8 is depressing as hell, I think the main thing that's wrong with California is not so much their unusual intolerance as their unusually idiotic constitution--who passes a constitutional amendment with a one time bare majority vote? Why even have a constitution? The same thing could easily have happened in Mass. if we had the same procedures.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:56 AM
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178 very much aligns with my understanding. Plus, Rahm is no Steny Hoyer - he's too centrist for us, but he's a true partisan. And do you really think that, after all this, Obama is going to let his COS run his policy?

Obama will disapoint us, of course, but it won't be Rahm's doing.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:03 AM
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Well, at least Republicans can look forward to the Bristol-Levi wedding, if nothing else.

Every ethnic group supported marriage equality, except African-Americans, who voted overwhelmingly against extending to gay people the civil rights once denied them: a staggering 69 - 31 percent African-American margin against marriage equality.


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:07 AM
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Lieberman talking to Glenn Beck:

And I think the filibuster is the key. You know, it gets a bad name, but it was really put there, a 60-vote requirement, to, as somebody said to me when I first came to the Senate, stop the passions of a moment among the people of America from sweeping across the Congress, the House, through the Senate, to a like-minded President and having us do things that will change America for a long time. So the filibuster is one of the important protections we have.

Lieberman should be kicked out and given only the worst committee assignments as a junior Republican. He's just declared his intention of continuing his policy of sabotage. 60 votes isn't in sight, so screw him. He wouldn't be part of the 60 anyway.

The filibuster was just barely saved a few years ago my a coalition of fake bipartisan moderates who immediately double-crossed the Democrats on their part of the deal. I say just get rid of it.

The so-called moderate Republicans are Snow, Collins, Coleman, Smith, and Specter. Even with Liberman aboard 60 woiuld be hard to reach.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:10 AM
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" Rahm is no Steny Hoyer - he's too centrist for us, but he's a true partisan"

Maybe I'm underestimating how much Hoyer sucks--I thought he was a sellout Dem, but no Ben Nelson--but this isn't my understanding. What issues is Emanuel better than Hoyer on?

I'm sure the chief of staff won't write the health care or climate change plan, but I would think he had some influence over what parts of the legislative agenda to make priorities, and what parts not to.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:11 AM
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I can't see Emmanuel not having a hand in policy-making. He was a big player independently. John Sununu, Mac McLarty, Erskine Bowles, and Andy Card were nobodies.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:13 AM
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176: There were almost 50,000 provisional ballots cast in NC in 2004. The number is probably at least as high this year.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:14 AM
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Going way back on Rahm: Let's hope not. Terrible choice if so. As psycho and fly-off-the-handle as Obama is calm and measured.

Isn't that pretty much exactly what you want out of your COS? A contrasting personality?

||

Wow, crazy mystery bug just appeared on my shoulder. Black with a long abdomen that has red racing stripes and sort of spiny things. Seems like a mellow enough little guy.

|>


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:14 AM
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I don't give a damn about Emanuel's temperament. I hated how he voted as a Congressman & I don't want him anywhere near policy. (I don't trust Obama on policy like I used to--if I did this would be less of an issue).


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:19 AM
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And you're not freaking out?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:20 AM
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Maybe I'm underestimating how much Hoyer sucks--I thought he was a sellout Dem, but no Ben Nelson--but this isn't my understanding. What issues is Emanuel better than Hoyer on?

It's been a long time since I paid attention to anyone's positions other than the POTUS candidates. What I recall is, about a year ago, learning that Rahm was on the right side on something - maybe gay rights or choice? - that surprised me. Whereas I've only heard bad things about Hoyer.

I certainly may be wrong.

Anyway, I don't see why I should wish for Daschle instead - the man was staggeringly ineffective as Majority Leader, why should we expect him, after 6 years out of the loop, to be an effective COS?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:22 AM
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(all this said, I am overreacting to the Emanuel pick, because he was my Congressmen & I hold a personal grudge.).

Good news besides the presidential election: Democrats take the NY State Senate for the first time in I don't know how long.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:22 AM
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I appreciate the appeal of having Your Very Own Bastard as Chief of Staff, but it's really inconsistent with a lot of the commitments to revising process that Obama has undertaken. I think you can get someone who knows how to be a tough guy when necessary without getting someone as consistently nasty and Iago-like as Emanuel. The CoS is the gate to the President: if you pick someone whose temperment and instincts are really opposed to your own, you're going to find over time that you don't get to see or talk to people who will tell you things you need to hear, that you're being manipulated in all sorts of ways. I think Obama needs someone whose view of things is simpatico with his own, but not someone who is already a close confidant or trusted friend.


Posted by: Timothy Burke | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:24 AM
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I didn't wish for Daschle.

Emanuel, in addition to his many crap votes, had a charming habit of voting the right way & then threatening House members in more conservative districts not to--e.g., telling them that if they vote against Sensenbrenner & Tancredo immigration bills, he wouldn't use DCCC funds to defend their vote & seats.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:25 AM
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I don't trust Obama on policy like I used to

Yes, well, some of us suggested he might not be Teh One on policy, but we were pretty roundly shouted down.

And you're not freaking out?

Surprisingly not. I've got him on my desk now. He seems to be taking it easy, just sort of walking along. Wait, yuck, he just released a little black droplet (from the front end). Don't hurl on my desk, bugdude.

Alas, the iPhone can't focus on something that little, so no pic for the pool.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:27 AM
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Oh this is sad - he's in his death throes - sort of waving his legs about, and then he just flipped over. I've righted him, but he's in trouble.

He seems to have survived about as long as our sense of optimism about Obama's electoral victory.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:30 AM
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BTW, I would like for the Obama Administration and Senate leadership to treat Joe Lieberman as Enemy #1. I think they'll get more useful traction from the five Republicans who have to be mindful of re-election in states where they've got to get some Democratic votes. Hell, I think even a few solid red-state Senators may look at Mitch McConnell's narrow escape and ponder just how exposed they want to be in two or four years. Lieberman shouldn't be given anything: he should be regarded as a bit of dogshit stuck to the shoe of the Senate majority, to be scraped off as quickly as possible.


Posted by: Timothy Burke | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:32 AM
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"Yes, well, some of us suggested he might not be Teh One on policy, but we were pretty roundly shouted down."

Teh One? Bite me.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:32 AM
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I'm very happy for you, imaginary USA friends. Congratulations. And I learned about "enormity". Sweet.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:34 AM
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I think 202 is a pretty good critique, although I tend to fall back on my fundamental trust in Obama's instincts - independent of policy, he just ran pretty much the best campaign ever, mostly by how well-organized it was.

Anyway, it's not Rahm yet, and there's plenty of disappointments to come regardless. For now, let's savor victory and get some overdue drafting done.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:36 AM
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My house is routinely infested with box elder bugs and Asian beetles (like ladybugs) every winter. This year was a bit disappointing. They're harmless, and prettily orange and black.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:39 AM
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treat Joe Lieberman as Enemy #1

I'm of two minds about this. Lieberman's break with the Democrats is almost entirely over foreign policy, which really doesn't run through Congress much. On domestic policy, which very much does come from Congress, he's still a pretty predictably middle-of-the-road Democrat.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:40 AM
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From jubilation to handwringing in fewer than 200 comments? Enjoy the moment, people! There will be time enough grouse and be disappointed and say "I told you so."


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:44 AM
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Lieberman's statement above looks like a declaration of war. By now he's non-ideological and just playing a personal game.

My sister just brought in a cuteness report on Obama's younger daughter. Apparently she's up there with my grandnephew and Jesus's twins.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:45 AM
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212: You've never actually met liberals before, have you?


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:50 AM
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||

health bleg:

What's the deal with a minor cold/sore throat before surgery?

I'm scheduled for an operation tomorrow and have a slight chest cold and sore throat. Very very minor, no temperature. The sort of thing we all get quite often

Are they likely to postpone the operation?

>


Posted by: George McWashington | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:52 AM
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Hey, I'm up. Looks like it's morning in America.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:52 AM
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I know a few people have already said this, but I just want to express my own words thanks to those of you who hit the pavement and worked so hard to make this a reality. The amount of real, active human involvement I have seen this year -- canvassing, phone banks, poll watchers, not just cheesy rallies in the park -- give me as much hope as anything else about our country's future. You guys are awesome.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:59 AM
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I'm hoping that Bristol Palin can quietly call off the wedding now.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:01 AM
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||

This is a bit of a parochial concern, but I'd like to remark on the unbelievable success of the marijuana decriminalization initiative in Massachusetts. Not only did it pass by a 30 point margin, but it commanded a majority of the electorate in almost every town in the commonwealth.

|>


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:02 AM
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Bad luck in the Senate...three razor-thin margins in Oregon, Minnesota, and Alaska and it looks like we're on the wrong end of all of them. I guess it's the wheel coming around after Webb won us the Senate by a few hundred votes.

But still...WOOOO HOOO.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:03 AM
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Lieberman's middle-of-the-road on fiscal policy, but on culture war as well as civil liberties issues, he's also very much a Republican ally. This is a guy who has been very comfortable working with Lynne Cheney on this kind of terrain. He's a much worse person for the Senate Democrats to be trying to accommodate than some of the Republicans who represent purple states.


Posted by: Timothy Burke | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:03 AM
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Lieberman's statement above looks like a declaration of war.

Or maybe he honestly believes the filibuster is important. I mean, every single Democratic Senator would have said the same thing two years ago.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:03 AM
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I don't feel that my doorknocking and phoning were very effective or useful, but please credit me with sacrifice points. I'd rather go to the dentist, and I'm not kidding.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:03 AM
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Doing last minute GOTV canvassing yesday, we ran into a woman who said she voted for McCain because she's "Not ready for socialism."

I didn't say this to her, but I sure as shit am ready for some socialism. Can we get some now? Lets start by nationalizing the banks on the Swedish model.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:05 AM
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Anyhow, I'm just relieved that we finally have a president that isn't from the fucking Vietnam era, so we can stop refighting that stupid-ass war. I don't have any real feelings for or against the boomers as a demographic group, but Jesus am I ready for their big, fake hippies-versus-squares division to quit dominating our politics.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:10 AM
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I didn't say this to her, but I sure as shit am ready for some socialism. Can we get some now?

Yeah, no shit. It's not unlike the "Obama's going to raise taxes!" thing. If only people understood you are not one of the people who will be hurt by this.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:12 AM
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|| Also, quick question -- anyone have suggestions for what an appropriate gift might be for a baby's first (1 year old) birthday? I'm not attuned to the needs of children ||>


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:12 AM
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Anyway, I don't see why I should wish for Daschle instead - the man was staggeringly ineffective as Majority Leader, why should we expect him, after 6 years out of the loop, to be an effective COS?

Well, he is Obama's political godfather (at least on the national scene). Behind-the-scenes work might be more his style.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:14 AM
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227: Clothes. Toys sounds better, but it takes a knack to find a toy that doesn't annoy the parent.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:16 AM
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I'm just relieved that we finally have a president that isn't from the fucking Vietnam era

In all my sentimental reflecting this morning, it struck me that part of what moves me about Obama's election is precisely this -- that he seems to represent a new generation, my generation. (Is there a formal generation between the Boomers and Gen X?) I haven't quite put my finger on why that should feel so important, but maybe you've identified it -- it's a focus on new priorities and not just reliving an era I wasn't around for.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:17 AM
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I'm not dead yet, Apo. I deny that DFHs are responsible for the Iraq War. I blame the post-hippy fortysomethings.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:18 AM
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227: How about 10s and 20s?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:18 AM
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227: Books are always good. Also, at that age the push-along type toys are great for new walkers -- shopping carts, baby buggies, etc.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:19 AM
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Knecht is right, though--I'm just plain crotchety lately.

PGD, children's books & cute clothes are always a possibilty. If you give clothes it's usually better to get a relatively large size, since: (1) a large 1 year old will not fit into 1 year old clothes (2) sizing is inconsistent & runs slightly small overall--plenty of newborns never fit into newborn sized clothes (3) kids eventually grow into larger sized stuff. With books I would obviously go for great, brightly colored illustrations over the subtleties of the text, & I would pick something a bit more obscure than, oh, Goodnight Moon, so that they're unlikely to already own it.

Note: This advice is probably influenced by my family having giant babies & starting to read to them when they're a few weeks old.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:21 AM
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Di is right about push toys. And definitely avoid toys that make play music or otherwise make annoying mechanical sounds.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:22 AM
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my prediction of a recount on the MN Senate race may yet be vindicated.

As it was written, so it is come to pass.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:23 AM
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Yes, oh god, yes. Any toy that requires batteries should be left on the shelf.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:24 AM
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I just wanted to take this opportunity to break new ground in presidential anonymity.


Posted by: Barack Obama | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:25 AM
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something a bit more obscure than, oh, Goodnight Moon

Big Red Barn, by the same author, has been a favorite in our house. Also highly recommended: Hand, Hand, Fingers, Thumb.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:25 AM
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And definitely avoid toys that make play music or otherwise make annoying mechanical sounds.

This depends, of course, on whether you like the baby's parents.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:27 AM
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Also highly recommended: Hand, Hand, Fingers, Thumb.

Especially recommended to help the youngster develop the sense of savage jungle rhythm that will be a prerequisite to all the most prestigious educational and professional opportunities in our afro-socialist future.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:29 AM
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185 GIER.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:31 AM
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THX 1138.


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:40 AM
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Good advice above, esp. on the noise thing - babies and children are noisy enough without artificial additions.

Although, that said, banging-type toys (drums, hammer bench, xylophone) work - the kid is just old enough to bang on them ineffectually now, but over the next 2-4 years will develop the ability to do things effectively with them. Multiyear toys are good.

Big Red Barn is so good. So is Each Peach Pear Plum. Chronicle Books has a lot of excellent board books - go to their website and browse around for something the parents will appreciate - remember, a book will be read 100s of times to a kid, so it's all about pleasing the parent. The kid will have her own favorites, but those are utterly unpredictable, esp. at this age.

Last note - Jan Brett is a wonderful illustrator. There's a lot of depth in her work that really rewards multiple readings/viewings. She tends to do a lot of public domain classics (e.g., "Owl and the Pussycat") so that she can work on her own. Her drawings are, arguably, a bit sophisticated for a 1-y.o., but they'll please the folks, and they'll have staying power.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:43 AM
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Throw in that book about the objectivist dog too.


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:48 AM
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Random thought: If I could have a datum from the next four years as an indicator of Obama's attitude toward governance, it might be the age of his first Supreme Court nominee.

If Obama returns to the erstwhile tradition of nominating geezers, we'll have a strong indicator that he's too conciliatory.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:08 AM
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Sandra Boynton's young kids books are wonderful for both kids and adults. The music books she's been doing recently are for bigger kids but the board books like Dinosaur's Binket and Belly Button Book are really outstanding.

They are some of the few books that I enjoy reading as often as the little ones want read to. Boynton has a real feel for the expressiveness of simple language.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:14 AM
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Really? Weird. Boynton's are the only children's books I truly hate reading. We have five or six, most of which were given as gifts. I try to hide them so I don't get requests, but that's not always successful.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:17 AM
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Anyhow, I'm just relieved that we finally have a president that isn't from the fucking Vietnam era, so we can stop refighting that stupid-ass war. I don't have any real feelings for or against the boomers as a demographic group, but Jesus am I ready for their big, fake hippies-versus-squares division to quit dominating our politics.


A-fucking-men.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:20 AM
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UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown called Tuesday's poll historic and said he and Mr Obama "share many values".

Shit, I'm so sorry, guys.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:21 AM
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Belly Button Book

Hmm, I haven't seen that one, but Cassidy thinks her bellybutton is the funniest thing ever.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:23 AM
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In MN Coleman/Franken is an automatic recount. I really want Franken to win, but I take some solace in the fact that Coleman is a typical "blow in the wind" politician.

If Coleman hangs on he'll be mostly a fair-weather Democrat. He's got no driving principle other than staying in power. Sure, I hate to see that rewarded, but we can't always get everything we want.

Coleman is a New Yorker pretending to be a Minnesotan, a gay pretending to be straight, he started out pretending to be a Democrat to get elected, then switched to Republican when he thought that favored him, so he'll likely mostly switch back. He's a lightweight floating in the breeze.

I still hopes he loses though.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:23 AM
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Apo,

That's one reason I started distrusting Fraud - he totally missed the bellybutton phase.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:24 AM
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Fuck you, Apo and Hamlet. It wasn't the hippies who gave us the Iraq War. What I'm glad for is that the shitty post-hippy generation (half-generation, actually, people about 35 to 50) has been succeeded by a generation that isn't quite so fucked up as they are.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:26 AM
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re: 250

I'm reminded of Frankie Boyle's Mel Gibson/Scottishness joke.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uTPSYbeNaa8


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:29 AM
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Soundmaking toys:

This depends, of course, on whether you like the baby's parents.

I specifically went through the phase where the plastic 'flapper' thing on big wheel's just somehow never stayed attached. Also, all those toys that would make the different sounds when the trigger was pulled different amounts always seemed to lose their batteries after they were given by Grandparents and before they got into the toybox.

My parents asked me once if I didn't like the little toy drum they gave Timmy. I said "Why would you say that? They said "Didn't you give him some scissors and ask him if he had gotten the surprise from inside the drum?"

Okay, that last one is an old joke, but I swear to God we do have a drummer in the house and he'll drum on his stomach if he can't find anything else. It is almost as annoying as my bad violin players. Two of them so far. Wow.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:31 AM
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Coleman has no principles, but obstructionism and sabotage will be his game. I think that Snow, Collins, and Specter will be better to work with. I really think that they should just get rid of the filibuster, though.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:31 AM
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Our friends have a policy that batteries are irreplaceable. "Oh look, your toy ran out."


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:32 AM
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254:

John, I think I saw a breakdown last night that showed the biggest support for McCain in MN was from the 30-44 year olds. I wonder why that was?


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:33 AM
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re: 256

The violin really is accursed. My sister played one for a while. Several years after beginning to play it still sounded bloody terrible.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:33 AM
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John, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not blaming hippies. The Iraq War was pushed through because every foreign policy vote was still being seen through the lens of Vietnam, and Democrats were afraid they'd be labeled DFHs, despite the fact that the Senate doesn't contain any DFHs and has never really had more than one or two. I mean, Bush-Clinton and Dole-Clinton were really 60s refights. Bush-Gore and Bush-Kerry were even more so. McCain-Clinton would have been yet again.

But having a candidate who came of age after that war made that standard framing difficult and made the GOP attacks (Bill Ayers! Black Panthers!) much less effective because they looked anachronistic.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:35 AM
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Shit, I'm so sorry, guys.

It's ok, OFE, Brown's a politician --- he's probably just lying for coattail effect.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:36 AM
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Heebie,

My parents once gave our toddler a small xylophone that was an octave and made from hollow metal tubes.

It was a good toy, Fisher-Price or something like that ad was fine and fun but the freaking tubes made a very piercing sound, almost too pure and it would plow through you eardrum and right into your brain.

I ended up stuffing some tissues in the tubes because otherwise that noise would cut through a steel plate.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:36 AM
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And I did say the hippies-versus-squares division was a fake division, John.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:37 AM
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258 is exactly the right approach.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:37 AM
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You know what really looked anachronistic? The 'socialist' label. Thankfully my kids were like 'Huh? What is he talking about?"


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:38 AM
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they should just get rid of the filibuster, though

Never happen. Not after the movie. Jimmy Stewart collapsing, Claude Raines suicide attempt. There's a question for you, JE. With idealism the new black, which corrupt Senator should do a staged suicide attempt on the Senate floor to demonstrate remorse?


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:42 AM
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Coleman has slimed already. The race is going into an automatic recount, but he's pretending that Franken is calling for the recount, and Coleman claims that if he were in Franken's place he would concede. Really he would! Typical Republican hardball spin.

If Franken pulls ahead, the next chapter will be claims of voter fraud.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:43 AM
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The filibuster was almost ended a couple years ago.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:43 AM
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John,

Ah, thanks for the info. I know on our local newspaper website some of the lackeys were starting to say 'Franken is a whiner calling for recount' and 'if Franken wins acorn is to blame.'

When can we start the whisper campaign about Coleman's sexual orientation?


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:46 AM
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TV, probably Fox: "Is it right for Franken to force the taxpayers to pay for a recount?" (Franken does have the option of waiving the recount, and the Coleman crew is claiming that he's obligated to.)


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:47 AM
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Speaking of Fox, I took a certain satisfaction last night popping over to Fox now and then and watching them stall as long as they could and pick raisins from the turd until they finally had to pack it in.

I love the idea of the ultra-rich wasting their money that way. I wish it would be put to something worthwhile but at least they are not spending it on hookers. Well not as much of it. More goes to the on-air prostitutes.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:51 AM
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Election update from the heartland: my father is devastated. He thinks that with the presidency and both houses of congress, the "liberals are going to be able to do whatever they want." He believes the next few years are going to be wonderful for "criminals and deadbeats", but an epic disaster for "hardworking Americans". "A whole lots's going to change", he tells me. "You won't even recognize this country in a few years." He mentions that, among the litany of horrors, "they're already talking about banning the Republican party." I said I didn't think anyone's been talking about that, and that anyway they wouldn't be allowed to do that. "Who's going to stop them? They control the whole government". Well, I don't think that would pass muster with the courts, for one. "The courts?! The courts are full of liberals too!" Okay, well then.

He blames the whole disaster on black voters.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:56 AM
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TV, probably Fox: "Is it right for Franken to force the taxpayers to pay for a recount?"

No, really? You saw this?? Unbelievable.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:57 AM
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Getting rid of the filibuster just because your side currently has a less than 60 seat majority strikes me as foolish for the same reason that giving the executive more power just because your party has the White house is foolish.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:03 AM
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Brock, you need to make a deal with your dad: if his forecast doesn't come to pass, he will never vote or talk politics again. And vice-versa.

If he reneges, just put him in the bad home that was on "60 Minutes."


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:07 AM
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The courts are full of liberals too!

Which is impressive, given that Republicans have been appointing federal judges for 20 of the past 28 years.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:08 AM
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The filibuster is fundamentally anti-progressive - it promotes the status quo, even if it is sometimes a useful tool for progressives. Without the filibuster, the last 2 years would have been better. With the filibuster, the next 4-8 years will be hamstrung.

I would object less if the filibuster were taken more seriously - I don't care about reading out of the phone book, but I hate that they can move on to other business despite a filibuster. Right now it's a weapon without a downside, which is why the GOP used it relentlessly the last 2 years. Make it something akin to a gov't shutdown (without the layoffs), and it's reserved for actual issues of import - like wars and SCOTUS nominees.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:14 AM
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276: The source says "the crooked home...."


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:17 AM
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I agree with 278.2

The filibuster is a tool to protect the minority from the excesses of the majority but it should not be painless to use or it will be abused.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:17 AM
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Without the filibuster, the last 2 years would have been better.

Only if losing by vetos is an improvement over losing by inaction (which it is, I suppose, but not by much). And the previous 6 would have been much, much, much worse.

I don't hold any particular love or hate for the filibuster, but it definitely cuts both ways.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:18 AM
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Getting rid of the filibuster just because your side currently has a less than 60 seat majority strikes me as foolish for the same reason that giving the executive more power just because your party has the White house is foolish.

Motives may differ, but it's not crazy to want to get rid of a weird artifact of parliamentary procedure that keeps the Senate from passing much of anything substantive. If you want to require super-majorities to pass legislation, then the rules should be written accordingly. Saying that a bill can be passed with a simple majority, except when it can't, doesn't make any sense.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:20 AM
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"A whole lots's going to change", he tells me. "You won't even recognize this country in a few years."

To which the correct response is, "God willing."


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:22 AM
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211: Lieberman's break with the Democratic Party is more over foreign policy than domestic issues, but it's also over tone and partisan loyalty.

If Lieberman had spent the past six years supporting Bush's policies but still speaking on behalf of the Democratic Party - going out of his way to make fair-minded corrections of slurs against them, for example, or emphasizing domestic issues instead of foreign policy - he wouldn't be hated by the netroots at all. In fact, he could very well be loved, for making the Democratic Party look like even more of a big tent party than it already is. (I'm not sold on the idea that the Democratic Party should be a big tent party, at least not on that issue, but I think it could have made a big difference in appearances, not even just among Broderites.)

But instead, he's been a Fox News Democrat all the way. He endorsed McCain. He's been a more droopy Zell Miller, and if he's not useful for anything he should be treated as such.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:22 AM
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I think my preference would be to keep the filibuster but change the rules so that 55 votes will end it.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:24 AM
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I don't think the filibuster is intrinsically good or bad for liberals--it impedes legislation, but that cuts both ways. The problem is, the GOP caucus is willing to use it, & the Democrats haven't been; the GOP is willing to attach things to appropriations bills to avoid filibusters, & the Democrats aren't. Obviously that's not set in stone, but I can't foresee it changing any time soon--if the Dems wound up the minority again I still think they'd be afraid to filibuster. And a 60 vote Senate supermajority requirement is NOT something like executive power or habeas corpus where the procedure is fundamental to democracy & the rule of law & accountable government.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:29 AM
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Speaking of Fox, I took a certain satisfaction last night popping over to Fox now and then and watching them stall as long as they could and pick raisins from the turd until they finally had to pack it in.

We spent most of the night watching Fox News. They continually updated the outcomes of congressional races, which CNN did not mention for a single second in the eight hours of their coverage. Also it's extremely fun to mock Brian Williams's voice. He sounds like a cross between Tom Brokaw and Principal Skinner.


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:30 AM
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I really think they should have to keep talking, like in the movie (and the actual procedure). This gentleman's agreement stuff is crap.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:32 AM
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Republicans have been appointing federal judges for 20 of the past 28 years.

Judges live a long time, Apo. Most of the Federal Judges were appointed by Truman.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:36 AM
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I think that the filibuster is a net negative. I have nothing against majority rule. The filibuster enables obstructionism and extortion of all kinds, and for whatever reason was never used against Bush.

The fake compromise was engineered in part by Lieberman. His statement about pretty clearly indicated that he will filibuster with the Republicans and never would have been part of the 60 anyway.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:37 AM
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266
You know what really looked anachronistic? The 'socialist' label. Thankfully my kids were like 'Huh? What is he talking about?"

Agree completely. With all the talk about the divide between the Vietnam and the post-Vietnam generations in this thread, there's a similar milestone I mention every chance I get: in this election, people born after the Berlin Wall fell were voting.

I'm 26 now, so I was seven in November, 1989, when the checkpoints in the wall were opened, so I wasn't exactly paying attention to politics at the time. For someone who's 18, the only communism they've known is in history class. Socialism just doesn't seem that bad when one of the prime examples of it in the world today is France. There may be good arguments to be had about the value of left-wing economic policies, but demogoguery about them simply falls flat, as the election may or may not have taught Republicans.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:39 AM
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No Republican jokes please, TLL.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:39 AM
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The Senate Democrats will have to learn how to peel off two or three Republicans for important votes; surely it can't be that hard.

Prop 8 going down sucks, and sucks bad. But anti-gay-marriage stuff passed all over the place, and if this sort of temporary setback on one front is the cost of expanding the Democratic coalition enough to retake the White House in dramatic fashion...


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:39 AM
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291 gets it exactly right.

Non-ideological people under 40 are also confused by the now-post-post-modern meta-idea that "tax and spend" is a negative stereotype of Democrats but not Republicans. Maybe people under 50, even. When was the last time that was actually an accurate description of the difference between the parties? 1967?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:45 AM
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Sy Hersh will be busy come January 20. The truth about the Bush administration is going to come out.

He really should hire one of the young blogger newsmen, maybe Ackerman. The way he talks, he's going to have a ton of different stories.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:46 AM
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I think that Republican "fiscal conservativism" is a relic of Eisenhower, who left office in 1960. No Republican since then has been fiscally conservative. Economic performance was mediocre under Eisenhower, and fiscal policies may have been part of the reason why.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:49 AM
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No jokes then, JE. Savor the moment. I was at a very sad party last night, where I kept silent about my secret shame.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:53 AM
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Ezra:

[Obama] robbed fear of its ability to work through quiet insinuation. He forced America to confront its own subconscious. Obama actually is black. His middle name actually is "Hussein." He actually does know William Ayers. He actually was married by Jeremiah Wright. He actually had lived in Indonesia. These were not smears, though they were often used as such. They were facts. And this election was fundamentally about what happened when fear collided with fact.

Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:54 AM
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When was the last time that was actually an accurate description of the difference between the parties?

Well, if the two options are tax-and-spend and borrow-and-spend...


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:55 AM
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rop 8 going down sucks, and sucks bad. But anti-gay-marriage stuff passed all over the place, and if this sort of temporary setback on one front is the cost of expanding the Democratic coalition enough to retake the White House in dramatic fashion...


No.


Posted by: hnuger_artist | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:58 AM
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The Yes on 8 ads were very effective. The one that got to me was SF Mayor Gavin Newsome saying "whether you like it or not". Well, plenty of folks didn't like it, and voted accordingly.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:04 PM
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why is greyhound racing regarded as inhumane?

I couldn't find any good information about this question in Massachusetts. It came down to one side saying that they mistreat the dogs, and the other side saying that the dogs are treated well. I ended up voting against the ban, because I didn't want to put people's jobs in jeopardy on account of a uninformed 'poor widdle doggies' sentiment.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:08 PM
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Georgia Senate: Runoff.
Minnesota: Recount, Franken 690 behind out of two million+.
Oregon: Stick at 70% with the Democrats two points behind.
Alaska: Looks like Stevens won. The Felon State.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:18 PM
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The Yes on 8 ads were very effective.

More's the pity.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:21 PM
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Looks like it's Emanuel.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:25 PM
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I don't want to slam the No on 8 campaign too much, because I am feeling very guilty for not doing more to help, but from the outside I never got the impression that they ran a very effective campaign. The campaign's theme was "whatever you think about marriage, we should respect civil rights." Of course that's true, but it came across as very legalistic and uninspired. The Yes side blanketed the airwaves with stories about children in schools, and got some ammunition from not-very-carefully vetted statements by the No on 8 campaign. It was all the more disappointing because the No on 8 campaign could easily have made its theme "don't kill love." I kept waiting to see an ad on TV where a loving, elderly lesbian couple had their wedding rings stripped off their fingers by jackbooted policemen, but nothing like that ever came on the air.

With that said, the sad irony is that if AA/Latino turnout hadn't been ramped up by the Obama campaign, the proposition probably would have failed. Very sad.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:30 PM
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What, if any, are the logistical issues involved in attending inauguration?


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:32 PM
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306.last is a depressing thought, yes.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:32 PM
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Oh come O come Emmanuel
And ransom captive Israel
That mourns in lonely exile here
until the Son of God appears.

Sure, Obama is The One. But should we let people know that? Is this a sop to the Armageddonists? Or maybe to the Israelis? I have grave fears.



Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:33 PM
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307: Beyond the difficultyimpossibilty of finding a hotel room now, anywhere in range?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:33 PM
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I dunno if it was on television anywhere, but I did see an ad on the internet in which two Mormon boys show up to a lesbian couple's house, take their rings, and tear up their marriage license.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:33 PM
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The group that ran the ad with the bride overcoming various obstacles on the way down the aisle was way too subtle. Never linked to No on 8 at all. Wasted opportunity.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:34 PM
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Plenty of couches available in D.C. from non-imaginary friends.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:35 PM
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Aravosis is REALLY pissed at the "No on 8" leaders. He suggests that they should have hired political pros, even if that meant hiring heterosexuals.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:38 PM
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If this turns out to work, it would help President Obama on so many fronts he may end up being the Messiah.
http://www.physorg.com/news144940463.html


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:39 PM
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I was at a very sad party last night

So what was that like?

I don't ask for Schadenfreude purposes; I wonder why McCain supporters would have gotten together at all. Were there actual delusional people who thought he might win? I suppose misery loves company, but I think a little denial* goes a long way.

* As in pretend it's not going on, not pretend McCain could win


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:40 PM
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Check out this fashion-forward duo.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:41 PM
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What, if any, are the logistical issues involved in attending inauguration?

Depends what you mean by attend. Anything that requires a ticket to get in to, you're out of luck. But you can just wander down to the mall on the day of to hear the speech, or stand on Pennsylvania Ave to watch the parade, if you get there early enough.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:42 PM
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317: Okay, that photo totally should have been their response to the shopping spree thing: "Look, people, we really couldn't send her out looking like this!"


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:45 PM
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315: ohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:46 PM
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The inauguration protocol set by Andrew Jackson's followers during the 1828 election is to roam through the White House and stand on the furniture in your muddy boots.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:47 PM
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if you get there early enough.

As in, "within the next couple weeks."


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:47 PM
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Depends what you mean by attend. Anything that requires a ticket to get in to, you're out of luck. But you can just wander down to the mall on the day of to hear the speech, or stand on Pennsylvania Ave to watch the parade, if you get there early enough.

I know I can't attend the ticketed balls, just wanted to make sure that all it takes to be in the crowd for the actual inauguration is showing up.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:48 PM
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John's such a traditionalist.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:49 PM
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from 317
Could Stevens actually run again via the special election? After all, Alaska's voters and Senate leaders could theoretically end up playing a game of ping-pong--where Alaska votes him in, the Senate expels him and then Alaska votes him back in. We're looking into it.

Didn't white Mississippians do this with Senator Bilbo back in the forties?


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:57 PM
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Re: 254. Well, I'm glad that the shittier pre-posthippy generation (people over 50) are going to die much sooner than most of us in the shitty posthippy generation and thus maybe someday nobody will have to think at all about what they think. But heck, I feel like we got a head start on that yesterday: it seems vaguely possible that narcissism about Boomer historical experiences might actually have been largely irrelevant to the outcome of an important national event.


Posted by: Timothy Burke | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 12:57 PM
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John Wilkes kept getting expelled from and elected to Parliament, I believe.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:01 PM
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315: That will have to be more economically feasible than renewable planet-destroying hydrocarbons.


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:02 PM
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Nearly 30,000 greyhounds are killed every year as a side effect of the racing industry. There was one horrific incident a couple of years ago where a greyhound was electrocuted at a party. Greyhounds are turned out into the desert when the season is done, or sold to labs. I don't dispute that there are good people who take care of their dogs and who don't injure them and who care if they get a good home, but this is not a 'poor widdle doggie' problem. This is systematically overbreeding with the specific intention of killing off the surplus or injured dogs at the end of the season. And it's done year after year after year.

I may be biased because I volunteered for quite a few years at a greyhound rescue group, but there is no excuse for the way the greyhound racing industry as a whole is managed and run. There's plenty of information available about the issue.


Posted by: winna | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:02 PM
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316. The party was at the house of a politically active couple. They always throw an election night party, not just for Presidential elections. They did not want to admit defeat before the actual election by calling off the party. No one there was under any illusions about what the outcome would be.

The discussion was mainly about the ballot propositions, and it was not an echo chamber.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:03 PM
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315: That article is confused, or at least confusing. If a solar panel is not pointed directly at the sun, there is less light shining on it - there are more square feet of shingles on a sloped roof than there are on the floor underneath it. These are called cosine losses, no reflective coating can do anything about them, and they are what tracking arrays are intended to remove.

There is also some sunlight reflected off the surface of the cell, which these coatings will reduce, but that's a smaller effect.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:04 PM
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330 to 329.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:07 PM
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When I spoke of the shitty post-hippy generation, Burke was the very person I meant.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:08 PM
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273: at least he's not a libertarian.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:10 PM
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323: You also need tickets for the stands along the parade route. Getting close to the Mall or PA Ave. is going to be a long and difficult process. There'll be tons of security, including metal detectors to get onto the Mall. The Metro will be packed beyond belief. I think it would be very cool in many ways to be there -- not least because I was there protesting in 2000 -- but I think that in the end I'll be happier watching the speech in someone's living room.

I don't actually mean to discourage anyone from going. I just hate waiting endlessly in a gigantic crowd with my lousy lower back aching. Plus, you know, misanthropy.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:14 PM
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331 - The cosine losses can't be helped, but there is also substantial variation in reflectivity with angle on an ordinary flat surface. Having a coating that helps with this problem is a significant step.

Down the line I think the way forward is with non imaging reflectors to help do away with the need for pointing systems. Pointing systems impose additional hardware costs but the maintenance costs are even worse. Moving parts bad.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:16 PM
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Here's the basis of the lawsuit against Prop 8, from an ACLU press release:

The California Constitution itself sets out two ways to alter the document that sets the most basic rules about how state government works. Through the initiative process, voters can make relatively small changes to the constitution. But any measure that would change the underlying principles of the constitution must first be approved by the legislature before being submitted to the voters. That didn't happen with Proposition 8, and that's why it's invalid.

Also, Drum is good this morning, pointing out that the anti-equality vote has slipped from 61% to 52% in eight years.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:21 PM
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Anti-reflective coatings help, but this is hardly the first anti-reflective coating to come along. I still think these two sentences from the press release are misleading enough to be considered wrong: "This means that a stationary solar panel treated with the coating would absorb 96.21 percent of sunlight no matter the position of the sun in the sky. So along with significantly better absorption of sunlight, Lin's discovery could also enable a new generation of stationary, more cost-efficient solar arrays."


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:22 PM
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Where did you get that, Wrongshre?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:25 PM
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That lawsuit has been waiting in case of a Yes win. I can't remember where I read about its being planned.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:28 PM
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I don't have any specific old assholes in mind myself. But I'm sure they can keep hoping that 1968 will once again light the fire of the world somehow.


Posted by: Timothy Burke | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:28 PM
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Through the e-mail. I'll try to find a link, or I'll post the whole damn thing.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:28 PM
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309: My girlfriend corrected me the other day, pointing out that "Rahm" isn't pronounced the way it's spelled (why would you have a name like that if you didn't pronounce the "H"?) but like Rom instead.

Naturally, I now insist on pronouncing his name with the H and with the two 'ayns in his last name as well.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:29 PM
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these two sentences from the press release are misleading enough to be considered wrong

That was what got my attention. As for the accuracy of the statement, I quote the Old New Englander "Hard tellin', not knowin'."


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:29 PM
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A link.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:30 PM
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337 is encouraging.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:30 PM
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338 - I think the big deal is the broadband nature of the coating. Still not a huge deal, but enough to be worth a bit of a blurb. Its a ~50% improvement in light collection efficiency, which is nothing to sneeze at.

Also bear in mind that the press releases are written by PR flacks, so there's only so much you can expect from them in terms of accuracy in the details.

The fact that they are using seven layers of CVD suggests it's likely to be expensive, though. Still, it's good to be pushing this kind of thing forwards.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:32 PM
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The other thing to keep in mind is that people 30 and under voted no on 8 by a pretty wide margin. It was the old fucks who supported 8. We're just waiting for them to die. It'll happen soon.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:32 PM
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Don't get too excited about the lawsuit overturning Prop 8. The distinction between "revisions" (require legislative approval before going on ballot) and "amendments" (can be passed by majority vote proposition) in California law is pretty opaque, but the California Supreme Court has a pretty long history of limiting the number of things that are "revisions" and would have to effectively overrule a decent amount of precedent to overturn Prop 8. It's possible but I wouldn't say that it's at all likely.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:34 PM
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Let me submit for your consideration the fact in many ways that George W. Bush was a more typical member of the Boomers than were the hippies.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:35 PM
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341:My recent study has changed my focus of nostalgia for a more activist politics to St Bartholomew's Birthday.

Just as a metaphor, of course.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:37 PM
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295: he should hire ME.

Okay, maybe not in January.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:42 PM
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350:Yes, the Right won 1968 and the next two generations here, France, Czechoslovakia, everywhere. That should be obvious and is why no leftist should be nostalgic for that moderate era of futile symbolism. 1968 was a failure to seize an opportunity.

May Day, Bastille, 1917...there are much better dates and events for progressive paradigms. And Red the appropriate color.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:43 PM
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It's a damn good thing that the fine Burke generation took over to save us from peaceniks and keep the nation moderate and reasonable.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:44 PM
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bob, I say again: you lost a bet. Now you have to go away for two or three days. I can't remember which.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:47 PM
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348: The other thing to keep in mind is that people 30 and under voted no on 8 by a pretty wide margin. It was the old fucks who supported 8. We're just waiting for them to die. It'll happen soon.

I'm less than comfortable with sentiments like these.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:52 PM
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John, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not blaming hippies. The Iraq War was pushed through because every foreign policy vote was still being seen through the lens of Vietnam, and Democrats were afraid they'd be labeled DFHs, despite the fact that the Senate doesn't contain any DFHs and has never really had more than one or two. ... But having a candidate who came of age after that war made that standard framing difficult and made the GOP attacks (Bill Ayers! Black Panthers!) much less effective because they looked anachronistic.

More amen. Nothing at all against DFHs, but refighting the Vietnam War every four years really skews campaigns in an unhelpful way.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:53 PM
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Senator Smith (R) of Oregon seems to have won. The SecState says so. I guess the various blogs have passed out drunk.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:55 PM
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Fortunately Burke came along to agree with my misreading of Apo.

The problem isn't refighting 1968, it's that the bad guys always win the fight. Nixon has been rehabilitated, and I haven't been.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 1:58 PM
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Video of Coleman saying he wouldn't ask for a recount if the 571 votes had gone the other way because we need to let the healing process begin. Seriously? Does he expect even one person to fall for that?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:04 PM
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Does he expect even one person to fall for that?

He's a very successful politician who's parleyed his radiant creepiness into 12 years in the Senate. So who are we to second-guess him?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:08 PM
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This is really a mess. The Oregonian seems to report that the Oregon Senate race isn't over yet, but the OR SecState reports that it is. There musy be a lot of people somewhere sleeping off hangovers.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:11 PM
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Nothing at all against DFHs, but refighting the Vietnam War every four years really skews campaigns in an unhelpful way.

True enough; Republicans and conservatives in general succeeded in framing the narrative, and Democrats were unable to reframe. If it took a Dem candidate on whom such framing simply couldn't be hung to get us past it, so be it. We don't yet know what the new framing will be, but it will involve terrorism, at least.

I was a little stunned to hear Rachel Maddow on MSNBC last night speak approvingly of Obama's tough-minded foreign policy remarks, and say something like 'After all, we haven't yet exacted proper revenge for 9-11'. What's that, now?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:11 PM
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355:ari, if you can't remember the terms of the bet, exactly why do you think i should honor it? Don't you find that at all embarrassing?

OK, the bet was that Edwards would speak at the Democratic Convention. Edwards did not so speak.
My stakes were that I would absent myself from Unfogged for three days, I believe around that time, but perhaps at your pleasure. I believe I honored that bet after the convention.

I am not entirely certain, but if you think you have some standing to call the bet, you need to be the one to link & cite the terms.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:12 PM
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Question for you Minnesotans: why doesn't the Minnesota legislature redistrict the three Republican House members out of their seats? Each and every one of them is adjacent to one or more overwhelmingly Democratic districts. You could redraw the lines to put Kline and Bachman in the same district so they would have to run against one another in the primary, then add 30-40K more Dem voters in each of the three Republican-held districts, and still have enough margin left over to win all the Dem seats by 20 points.

Is it the good government tradition? The Republican governor? The incumbent protection racket? A law mandating non-partisan redistricting?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:16 PM
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The Oregonian predicts a Merkley win based on outstanding ballots. Georgia is a sure runoff election. Alaska will be a new election of Stevens is expelled. Franken is a pretty long shot in the recount. recounts seldom change much.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:18 PM
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I believe that Minnesota had a Republican legislature very recently.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:20 PM
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356:As an old fuck, I am remarkably ok with it.

The young punks will find themselves with their own contemporaneous conservative assholes, as bad but different from the conservative assholes of my day. Things will change, but not really get better. Kids liberated from homophobia have also forgotten how to stop a war or achieve social justice. No a clue on that last.

This saddens, yet somehow amuses me.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:21 PM
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Kids liberated from homophobia have also forgotten how to stop a war or achieve social justice.

"Forgotten"? Had the old fucks figured these things out?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:25 PM
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314: Wait, what? The No on 8 group seriously didn't hire heterosexual-owned consultants or media firms? I wasn't following every detail of the Proposition 8 campaigns, so if there were only one or two companies involved and they happened to be chosen over equally-respected companies that happened to be straight-owned, fair enough. But you're right, that's not what Aravosis makes it sound like. That's ridiculous.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:26 PM
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The day after a historic victory, and my choices for Web discussion are: a) did the unions destroy America, or b) how much did the hippies suck after all?


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:32 PM
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356: Parsimon, I'm sorry. I was kidding, I should have made that clear. I'm over 30.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:32 PM
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Franken is a pretty long shot in the recount. recounts seldom change much.

I find it sort of amazing the frequency with which major elections, like say statewide Senate elections with 1 million+ voters, come down to a margin of less than a thousand votes. Or even one or two thousand votes. A thousand is one-tenth of one percent of a million. It's really a pretty good demonstration of median voter theory.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:33 PM
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The day after a historic victory, and my choices for Web discussion are: a) did the unions destroy America, or b) how much did the hippies suck after all?

as the old conventional wisdom of conservative hegemony slowly fades away, it will be up to us to keep it alive. For antiquarian purposes if nothing else.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:34 PM
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The day after a historic victory, and my choices for Web discussion are: a) did the unions destroy America, or b) how much did the hippies suck after all?

Beg abjectly enough and heebie might post a math puzzle.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:34 PM
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Re: 254. Well, I'm glad that the shittier pre-posthippy generation (people over 50) are going to die much sooner than most of us in the shitty posthippy generation and thus maybe someday nobody will have to think at all about what they think.

Sweet. It'll be great when the Great Enlightenment arrives! But oops! I'll be dead! Give Dinesh D'Souza a kiss for me.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:40 PM
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Now that Obama is President, there will be no more death. Which means we'll have to listen to Tom Brokaw's croaking voice for the rest of our days.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:46 PM
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372: Parsimon, I'm sorry. I was kidding, I should have made that clear. I'm over 30.

I imagined it might have been kidding, but my sense of humor abandons me on that kind of thing right now; too reminiscent of the disenfranchisement of too many other groups with whose views we don't agree. Earnestness overload here.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:49 PM
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374: as the old conventional wisdom of conservative hegemony slowly fades away, it will be up to us to keep it alive. For antiquarian purposes if nothing else.

This is great.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:54 PM
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369:I probably should have said "economic justice", but sure. Old folks have not always implemented their knowledge perfectly.

To stop a war, you kill a gov't. Decisively, if not violently.

See Peloponnesian Athens, Russia 1917, many other examples. See:Johnson not running (a partial success/failure), and finally the Nixon impeachment. Johnson to Nixon shows that a mere liberal change in administration doesn't end a war, which of course is outside normal politics. Kerensky wanted to continue WWI. Why?

I am expecting that lesson to be learned again. The elites, which are non-partisan, will wage war until they are stopped or terrified.

Economic justice involves eating the rich.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 2:57 PM
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bob, I say again: you lost a bet

Which reminds me. Pick your charity Ari so I can make my donation.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:05 PM
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You know who was an asshole? FDR, for saving capitalism instead of letting it perish.


Posted by: man mcbobus | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:07 PM
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Prediction -

7 years, 344 days until Republican pundits concede that Barack Obama might not be a secret communist radical Muslim after all.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:15 PM
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381: Any organization trying to get Prop 8 overturned. And thanks for remembering.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:15 PM
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Further to 384, if trying to get Prop 8 overturned conflicts with your religious views, just give the money to a charity that you like


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:16 PM
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Any organization trying to get Prop 8 overturned. And thanks for remembering.

Now you're kicking yourself for not getting gay-married while you still could, aren't you?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:17 PM
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386: What makes you think I didn't?


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:20 PM
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Any organization trying to get Prop 8 overturned

Is the ACLU fine? I think they are working on that. I haven't followed that issue too closely so I am not overly familiar with the groups involved. If anyone has a better suggestion I am listening.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:20 PM
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Send it to me!


Posted by: Gloria Allred | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:25 PM
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I would imagine that an organization with a narrower focus would be a better recipient than the ACLU, but I also don't know who has that focus.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:32 PM
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382:I am not going to criticize FDR for not being Lenin or Mao.

And FDR's 2nd, Economic Bill of Rights of 1944 was radical enough.

Inalienable Constitutional Rights to housing. A Const right to a good-paying job. A Const right to healthcare. A Const right to a college education. Etc, all at gov't expense.

I'd settle for that.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:35 PM
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Lambda Legal and NCLR are good bets.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:36 PM
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I should have known you guys caught "enormity" last night. It bothered me during the speech too.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:36 PM
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Also, Equality California. Links here, here and here.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:39 PM
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393: Indeed. Obama has already brought change—semantic change. 538 today:

There will be moments in the coming days, randomly standing in line at the grocery store, driving down the street in contemplation, the sight of a door you knocked, catching a certain song, a glimpse of Chuck Todd, hearing someone tell a story... where these emotions will just come bursting through, the enormity of it all. [emph. added]


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:41 PM
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Uh, that's exactly how everyone used the word "enormity" before yesterday.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:45 PM
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Enormousness would have sounded odd to me. Mostly because it doesn't seem to be a frequently used word in general, even if it is technically correct.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:56 PM
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I'd maybe go with "immensity".


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:57 PM
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You did it because you understand the enormity of the task that lies ahead.

"Size" would have worked fine, as would many other words.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 3:58 PM
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Alright, $20 donated to each of Lambda Legal, NCLR, and Equality California.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 4:02 PM
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CJB is a mensch.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 4:06 PM
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"Humungousness" is formal style for that concept.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 4:18 PM
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Or even more formally, "humungosity".


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 4:19 PM
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Every prez should get a linked to a word. Harding has normalcy, Obama has enormity.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 4:20 PM
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The word the gentleman was looking for was, "hugemagnimensitude." Asepticacoferous and articulacigenic, my ass.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 4:26 PM
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You know what's great? After Kerry lost, Slate ran a series of pieces wondering what Democrats should do now to get back in touch with the country. Now Slate is running a similar feature about Republicans, and I'm not reading a word of it.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 4:27 PM
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400: What ben said. Thanks, CJB.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 4:29 PM
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On the other hand, David Greenberg apparently thinks Obama's primary campaign was arguably dirtier than McCain's general election campaign. He says some other stuff after that, I guess, but it doesn't seem worth reading. I don't know why I still look at Slate.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 4:32 PM
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Harding has normalcy, Obama has enormity.

This is a racist stereotype.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 4:35 PM
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Not the size, but the motion. Of the ocean.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 4:38 PM
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I have enormity where it counts.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 4:38 PM
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Inalienable Constitutional Rights to housing. A Const right to a good-paying job

How does that work, bob? Right to housing, where? bob, you're constitutionally mandated house is in Minot, N.D. Or does the individual get to choose where the housing is? In that case, I choose Laguna Beach, close to the shore if you please.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 5:25 PM
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bob, you're constitutionally mandated house is in Minot, N.D.

After my 8th consecutive month of 80s here in Dallas, I am so fucking ready for Minot. Or Juneau.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:05 PM
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I have enormity where it counts.
Is that what the spammers mean when they say "Add three terrifying inches!!!"?


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:18 PM
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408: There are slightly more reasons to hate Slate than to like it, but you can be selective. Timothy Noah is often very good. Meghan O'Rourke has a fine, fine mind. And while Emily Yoffe is more of a love-to-hate Prudie than the stellar Landers fille who preceded her, I'm a sucker for an advice column. (But no video.)


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:30 PM
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Oregon has been called for the Dem. Merkley. God knows why counting is so slow.

Franken is about 490 votes down in MN, .01% IRC, and the recount will be finished sometime in Dec. Expect it to be a circus.

Runoff in GA, theoretically a 50-50 race depending on which way the spoler candidate's voters fall. Maybe an argument can be made that GA wants a majority Senator for clout (graft) purposes.

In Alaska the felon will win and be ejected, and then there will be a new election.

So we're at 57 with a far outside chance of 60, except that Lieberman will join the Republicans when the chips are down.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 7:53 PM
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Correction: In Alaska it's not yet certain that Senator Felon has been re-elected. Votes still to count.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:06 PM
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The margin Franken is behind by is less than the expected margin if people are voting by flipping a coin. Bizarre.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:12 PM
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Man, if the Dems had nominated the dwarf with the hook for a hand in Minnesota, and Al Franken in Oregon, I bet both of the Republicans would have gone down hard.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:13 PM
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Merkley isn't the dwarf, though.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:17 PM
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Oh, so that's why he didn't win by more.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 8:36 PM
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I am SO MAD at my dream self. SUCH A LIAR


Posted by: Cecily | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:00 PM
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A lot of dream selves are calibrated a few percent off.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:13 PM
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Lieberman will join the Republicans when the chips are down

But. On things like health care and Social Security and education and abortion and the environment, he's still a useful vote unless he decides to go completely 180° on his entire voting history. In a sense, he's more or less the Republican that's easiest to peel off. More so than Specter, Snowe, McCain, or Collins.

Not that I wouldn't like to see him set on fire because, really, who wouldn't? But I suspect he's going to be more useful than any actual card-carrying GOP senators.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:14 PM
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I am impressed by the tie-i-tude though. Who would have expected next-day calling from such a cowboy state?


Posted by: Cecily | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:23 PM
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Also: This means I get health insurance, right? I can drop out of my PhD program (geared at a professorship) safe in the warmth of univeral health care?


Posted by: Cecily | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:24 PM
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Trust your dreams, Cecily!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:37 PM
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but my dreams are so often melodramas revolving around dubiously sourced characters (much as yoursef, John Emerson) that I feel nervous about trusting them with any real power.


Posted by: Cecily | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:41 PM
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||

Sifu's wedding suit.

|>


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:41 PM
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422 -- Fucking Bobcats.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 9:54 PM
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So, the post-implosion campaign sniping has begun in earnest. And is Dana Bash implying something in the last sentence here?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:09 PM
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Belatedly, 396 is dead on. "Enormity" has a long history of referring to size.

Usage note from Merriam-Webster:

Enormity, some people insist, is improperly used to denote large size. They insist on enormousness for this meaning, and would limit enormity to the meaning "great wickedness." Those who urge such a limitation may not recognize the subtlety with which enormity is actually used. It regularly denotes a considerable departure from the expected or normal. When used to denote large size, either literal or figurative, it usually suggests something so large as to seem overwhelming and may even be used to suggest both great size and deviation from morality . It can also emphasize the momentousness of what has happened or of its consequences . [they awakened; they sat up; and then the enormity of their situation burst upon them. "How did the fire start?" -- John Steinbeck]. When used to denote large size, either literal or figurative, it usually suggests something so large as to seem overwhelming [no intermediate zone of study. Either the enormity of the desert or the sight of a tiny flower -- Paul Theroux] [the enormity of the task of teachers in slum schools -- J. B. Conant] and may even be used to suggest both great size and deviation from morality [the enormity of existing stockpiles of atomic weapons -- New Republic]. It can also emphasize the momentousness of what has happened [the sombre enormity of the Russian Revolution -- George Steiner] or of its consequences [perceived as no one in the family could the enormity of the misfortune -- E. L. Doctorow].

And this bizarre excerpt from the American Heritage usage note:

This distinction between enormity and enormousness has not always existed historically, but nowadays many observe it. Writers who ignore the distinction, as in the enormity of the President's election victory or the enormity of her inheritance, may find that their words have cast unintended aspersions or evoked unexpected laughter.

Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 10:27 PM
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424: Failing any given bill in the Senate 49-51-Kick-Lieberman-In-The-Balls still sounds better than passing it 50-50-Joe-The-Tiebreaker.

I mean, wouldn't that be awesome? C-SPAN cameras rolling, Reid walks up to him and says "we really need your vote to pass this bill as it stands, Joe..." PUNT! "...but I guess we can take it back to committee and see what we can do."


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:01 PM
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Joe-The-Tiebreaker

Heh. Driving home, I heard some reporter from Newsweek indicating they have a long and off-the-record-till-after-the-election article coming out shortly, and, among many other things that sounded interesting, McCain was apparently quite amused at the nickname "Joe the Biden". A real knee slapper!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:05 PM
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433: okay, as a compromise, what if Lieberman votes with the caucus and gets kicked in the balls?

Joe "Ow, My Balls" Lieberman: I like the sound of that!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:37 PM
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Here, Stanley, is the first part. It's filled with great stuff. Never say I didn't do anything for you, okay? Fucking ingrate.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 11- 5-08 11:43 PM
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I really wanted Collins to lose. For some reason she annoys me more than Snowe.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11- 6-08 5:12 AM
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273 follow-on: it struck me this morning, on reflection, that my father's rantings are not materially more rabid than some of the things I heard from the left in the wake of the 2004 election. So maybe I'll give him a pass this time. I think elections just make people crazy.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 6-08 7:26 AM
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So maybe I'll give him a pass this time. I think elections just make people crazy.

It's cumulative too, so have mercy on the old fucks.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11- 6-08 8:07 AM
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431: I see: "She met advisers in her room in a towel." The intended audience sees: "SLUTSLUTSLUTSLUT"


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11- 6-08 8:57 AM
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Smith has conceded; Merkley is in. That's pickup number 6. Also, it appears that NC has finally been called for Obama, which brings him up to 364 EV and is fucking awesome. Also also, Emanuel accepts. This has been your post-election news update.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 6-08 11:13 AM
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Perfectly Goddamn Delightful (or any other economist)--What do you know about the New York Federal Reserve President Timothy Geithner? I read something by Joseph Stieglitz saying that it would be bad to have people with too much of a Wall Street background in the job, since those are the people who got us into this mess.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11- 7-08 12:59 PM
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Posted by: ranjeet22 | Link to this comment | 03-13-09 11:59 AM
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