Re: Pain In The Neck

1

Face it - babies can be a pain in the neck.


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 5:55 PM
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After clicking several links, I understood what the fuss was about only after I finally watched the ad, which treats baby-wearing dismissively even as it pretends to be sympathetic. What I came away with:

1. Whoever came up with the ad is clueless about both the value of slings (they're awesome!) and the sensibilities of people who use them (parents of infants can be cranky, go figure).
2. Having to wade through several blog posts to get to the issue suggests that, despite the miracle of internetical communication, people still don't express themselves very well.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 6:22 PM
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It's an obnoxious commercial that plays on the anti-P.C. thing. This seems to lay it out pretty clearly:

the ad is pretty condescending about slings, saying they're trendy and a mark of motherhood while out in public, with a nod to the idea that they're "supposed" to be good for baby

Most mothers I know (and a few fathers) feel at least some of the time that people are judging their choices on naming, breastfeeding, working, disciplining, ferberizing, ad infinitum. So anything that smacks of judgment is going to hit a nerve for a lot of women. The reaction is entirely understandable from my point of view. That said I think everyone would be better off saying, "Sod off, Motrin," and moving on.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 6:26 PM
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Also, Jesus is right that slings are awesome, as are baby bjorns and similar things. All the real mommies use them.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 6:31 PM
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My wife is on the Boston Babywearers mailing list, and it's been a frenzy. One points is that baby bjorns, in fact, suck, and that people who use better slings and wraps properly don't have much back pain. This ad confirms the stereotype that carriers are supposed to hurt, obscuring the fact that there are resources out there to non-pharmaceutically avoid pain when carrying your child.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 6:38 PM
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So as it turns out, Becks is super-insensitive.


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 6:42 PM
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If only we returned to the simple ways of our ancestors and carried babies balanced on top of our heads none of this would be an issue.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 6:55 PM
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I thought it was water jug, then baby.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 7:00 PM
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well you put the baby in the jug. Then the water has that delicious baby flavor!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 7:01 PM
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No, see that would contaminate the water. The baby carries the water jug.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 7:01 PM
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11

Hmm. You decide who's pwnd.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 7:01 PM
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Baby bjorns are a pain in the ass. Great way to hold your baby, totally awful for putting on and taking off.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 7:14 PM
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13

Someone should invent a baby helmet.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 7:16 PM
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13: like those beer helmets! A construction helmet with a baby on either side.

OR! You could make a moose hat, then strap the babies to the side of that, so you'd have little antlers made of infants. You could call it the "Palin-tote".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 7:21 PM
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Better hide this thread so the babywearers don't find it or Sifu's going to end up in an alley somewhere tied up in a didymos.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 7:31 PM
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15: damn this fearsome swaddling -- I can't reach my Motrin!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 7:40 PM
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I actually have a serious question, though: are there any ads that don't act like the targeted customers are loathsome morons? I mean, I've seen ads that all but used the tagline "Buy an SUV because you're an asshole!" Or video game ads, which tend towards "Get this game, you antisocial loser, and you'll be rewarded with excruciating physical pain!"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 7:44 PM
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I thought the pickelhauber was a baby helmet?


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 7:44 PM
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5 is part of it -- the really hippie-crunchy looking ways of carrying a baby are IME easier on the back and neck than the buckle&strap&so-on back or front pack carriers.

There's also just an unpleasant "If you're too dumb to stop hurting yourself, at least you can take a pill" tone about it; the ad gives the impression that carrying a baby is some kind of pointless martyrdom, and anyone with any sense would be using a stroller exclusively. Mostly, people do stuff because it's working for them, not because they're morons into inflicting pointless pain on themselves.

Admittedly, I didn't follow enough of the links to actually see anyone reacting to the ad, rather than discussing the reaction, so the reaction may be loopy. But the ad would have made me cross seven years ago, and I still find it kind of irritating.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 7:46 PM
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17: "Buy an SUV because you're an asshole!"

What ever do you mean? You buy an SUV because you are the kind of person chafing against the constraints of modern civilization. You are very successful, but weary of the compromises you must make to achieve that success, someone who is as likely to drive down a dry riverbed this weekend as deliver a carfull of kids to a soccer game. Compromise is for other people, not for you.

The available power-deployable running boards ensure that entry and exiting are equally impressive.
-- Actula verbiage from a Lincoln Navigator Ad
Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 7:54 PM
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20: I was actually thinking of one specific ad, which featured a woman trying to park in a crowded mall parking lot. She spotted a space, but another car was going to get there first! Luckily, she had the Wideload XLT or whatever with all-wheel drive, so she could simply drive across several raised, landscaped barriers and cut off the hapless feeb in their tiny li'l economy car.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 7:58 PM
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Without reading anything (I have kids; you think I have time for this shite?), what Sir Kraab said. Also what LB said.



Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 7:59 PM
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23

Is 'babywearing' an official word now? It sounds, I dunno, kinda like a clever marketing slogan or something.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:01 PM
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24

Incidentally, the baby helmet market is quite well-established.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:05 PM
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"Babywearing" sounds derogatory to me. It sounds like something I'd say in a dark mood about the local moms who gave up handbags for babies. I would not say it out loud or to a mother or in a commercial in which I was trying to sell something. Lots of moms have babies because they actually want to raise children, or so I'm told.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:06 PM
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26

From the ad:

Plus it [carrying my baby] totally makes me look like an official mom.

Wow, that's tone deaf.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:07 PM
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27

Babies and SUVs together, an advertising coup.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:08 PM
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I would not say it out loud or to a mother

Give it time. The Mommy Drive-By is a feature of the age.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:09 PM
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26: Exactly. Plus, the way the ad is set up, it makes it sound like she's talking about people who march around all day showing off the fact that they've found someone to impregnate them. Surely carrying your baby isn't that big of a burden to those who are not promenading 10 hours a day but actually, you know, going to and from places with the child.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:09 PM
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Isn't the problem that it referred to the fact that moms take super pride in showing off their kid, but only treated that like a neutral thing?

Really confirms my opinion that becoming a parent makes people into bad people.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:11 PM
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31

24: that's... kind of ridiculous.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:11 PM
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32

I'll tell you who needs helmets, though: pigeons.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:13 PM
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33

Assume that 32 is ungrammatical on purpose, rather than because I was dropped on my helmetless head as a child.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:14 PM
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I imagine baby Adolph Napoleon wearing a pickelhauber. The ones in 24? Not so much.

These bright and cheerful hats not only provide added protection, they are also fun to wear! [...] Don't leave your child's safety to chance


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:14 PM
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referred to the fact that moms take super pride in showing off their kid

I felt like it referred to the fact that moms take super pride in showing off themselves as capable of reproduction. In most of those slings, you can't even see the baby. She's suggesting you wear it not to genuinely bond with the kid or to keep both hands free so you can carry groceries or whatever else you're leaving the house for, but to make people see you as an "official mom," like a real live heterosexual reproducing grown-up.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:14 PM
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36

And what about the daddy-bloggers? Will no one speak for them? Sexist!

I think 2 and 3 get it right, so far as I can tell. We don't have a sling, but I happen to be a huge fan of our Ergo Baby Carrier, which is the only thing that will get E to stop crying when she's in a tizzy. Plus, hands-free! So useful. Except that when eating, one tends to get crumbs on one's baby's head.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:15 PM
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37

(If I ever spawned, I'm sure I'd use a sling instead of a stroller just because having to push a fucking thing around all the time and make people open doors for me and help me down the subway stairs would make me want to shoot someone.)


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:16 PM
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38

one's baby's head's surface's exterior


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:16 PM
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39

36: you need a babyvac!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:17 PM
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40

36 also reminds me that when you have two, the sling option only works if it's an all-family outing, right? Being a single parent with two leaving the house would mean you'd need a stroller to get anywhere, I'm guessing.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:18 PM
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41

Someone needs to write a book that's just a string of possessives.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:18 PM
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42

40: put one in front and one in back, for balance.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:19 PM
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43

Ooh! Another product idea: two-baby sling for twins that doubles (heh) as motorcycle saddlebags, if you want to take the kids on a road trip!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:20 PM
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44

40. Sling them off the hips like papercarriers' bags.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:20 PM
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45

motorcycle saddlebags

And as they kids get bigger, you can upgrade to a motorcycle with a sidecar on each side.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:21 PM
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46

y


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:23 PM
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42 has been seriously proposed, but seems like an advanced maneuver. But yes, babywearing seems to work best with a 1:1 parent:baby ratio.

(Not that I should count as a datapoint, since we've only left the house with them in the carriers once, for a ten-minute stroll around the block. I'll get back to you in a few months. Or, ask Jesus.)


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:23 PM
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45: and then once they get big enough, upgrade to a sedan chair!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:23 PM
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Can baby slings replace those dual stroller things? They seem to be unavoidable in my neighborhood. I love where I live, but sometimes I wish I was in more of a "starter dog" rather than "two kid" neighborhood -- though at least when you're dealing with kids, the bags of feces are hidden below clothes instead of being carried around in plain sight.


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:29 PM
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40: My wife is not a single-parent, exactly, but she does often take the two kids out without me. I'm not sure if 42 and 44 were meant as jokes, but those both work.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:30 PM
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24: that's... kind of ridiculous.

Just wait.

As soon as you're born they're afraid that you'll fall
They'll protect your little head when you start to crawl
If you take a spill you'll feel nothing at all
A SWPLed up baby is something to be
A SWPLed up baby is something to be

...

When they've protected and coddled you for twenty odd years
Then they expect you to pick a career
When you can't really function you're so full of fear
A SWPLed up baby is something to be
A SWPLed up baby is something to be


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:33 PM
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What's interesting is that, had they not tried to use the ironic, knowing tone -- which kind of reminds me of those ads about people suffering through crappy food in an effort to eat healthy -- the ad would have probably gone over perfectly swell.

Embrace the new earnestness, Motrin!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:35 PM
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It's my perception that dual strollers used to be one seat in front of another but are increasingly two seats side-by-sides. Clearly, the front-to-back seating is more convenient for everyone, including the second child who rightly establishes his or her superiority (the first one is a rough draft, after all) by occupying the front seat.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:35 PM
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54

53: vertical, head-to-toe stacking seems even more optimal.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:37 PM
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No, then the center of gravity is too high. You need horizontal chambers stacked on each other. Preferably that can be sealed.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:38 PM
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56

So, am I indulging in unjustified and unfair judgment of other people's parenting decisions when I say that the people at the zoo who had their ten year olds wedged into loaner strollers that could barely contain them were maybe pushing the envelope a little bit?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:39 PM
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1) It's a stupid ad. Even mothers (and fathers) brain-dead from lack of sleep can figure out how to carry a baby without pain. We managed it 40 years ago, devolution can't be that rapid.

2) The Twitter crowd are twits. Stupid ads are the rule, not the exception. They need to exercise their brains, not their thumbs.

3) Bah!


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:40 PM
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Were they big ten year olds?


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:40 PM
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I think 52 is on to something though. People are very earnest about their kids.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:41 PM
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||
My cat won't let me work at my desk. She keeps getting between me and the screen until I switch to my laptop on the couch were she can sit on my lap. (She won't sit on my lap at the desk.)
|>


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:43 PM
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60: you need a cat sling.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:44 PM
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53 reminds me of my all-time favorite objection to the introduction of Daylight Savings Time back in the day:

Lord Balfour came forward with a unique concern: "[on the night the clocks are set back] Supposing some unfortunate lady was confined with twins and one child was born 10 minutes before 1 o'clock. ... the time of birth of the two children would be reversed. ... Such an alteration might conceivably affect the property and titles in that House."

And it happens.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:45 PM
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63

61: Which were invented by Otto von Katzling.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:46 PM
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56: I have been with someone who used a double-kid jogging stroller well past the elder child's seventh birthday, not because the children were lazy, but because otherwise a 20-minute walk would take two hours, with lots of dawdling, poking, fighting, begging for stops for toys and sweets and bathroom, nearly getting hit by cars, etc. This is Brooklyn. They need to learn not to fuck around. The jogging stroller is understandable in certain circumstances, but it's a crutch.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:49 PM
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I don't think anyone here could possibly understand or explain how the most minor irritations can blow up into immense conflicts taking up tens of thousands of words. This phenomenon is totally alien to Unfogged.

Incidentally, the baby helmet market is quite well-established.

the only kid who wore a protective helmet when I was growing up was the scary retarded kid with brain damage. He used to stagger around incoherently threatening everybody. Everyone would run -- we would have been helpless had he attacked because he had head protection and no one else did.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:54 PM
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So, am I indulging in unjustified and unfair judgment of other people's parenting decisions

No. I saw the same in Times Sq. this weekend and was appalled. I was also appalled that I had to explain Red Rover to a 15 yo. (in trying to explain how I viewed all those tourists as a giant game of). The youth of today don't learn the right violent games.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:54 PM
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Kill the body and the head dies, PGD.

The jogging stroller is understandable in certain circumstances, but it's a crutch.

I can imagine them being very helpful when jogging. They sure do take up a lot more room than regular strollers, though.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:54 PM
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Isn't the problem that it referred to the fact that moms take super pride in showing off their kid, but only treated that like a neutral thing?

Not even remotely. Boycott yoyo.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:55 PM
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66: the conspiracy to ban Red Rover from elementary schools has been in full swing for a while now. Which, c'mon, a little clotheslining never hurt anybody.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:56 PM
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69: We're like one comment away from dodgeball aren't we?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:58 PM
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70: I certainly hope so.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 8:59 PM
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70: Due to market conditions, it's now known as Toyotaball.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:00 PM
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Once when I was playing dodgeball, or failing to, the gym teacher said to me, "That hit you in a bad place, huh? Right in your hands." Then he blew his nose onto the ground without a tissue.


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:04 PM
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74

I'm sure school was quite traumatic for you, Adam.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:05 PM
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Then he blew his nose onto the ground without a tissue

Holy shit! Did he use explosives? Was he a leper? Was he Michael Jackson? Was it an old school metal prosthetic nose? Could you see his brain?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:07 PM
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76

Gym class was Adam's first encounter with the problem of theodicy.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:08 PM
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The nose wafted slowly to the floor. I watched it, silently, paying to attention to the balls whizzing around me. He looked at me, with a wide, sneering grin.

The next thing I remember is the school nurse.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:10 PM
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"no attention"


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:10 PM
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79

At my high school, you could get out of the gym requirement if you played two years of a sport -- including marching band. I was totally golden. In that group, I was like a superman.

The trauma of eighth grade gym class has also been aufgehoben as I met my closest friend and current roommate in said class. (For him, the trauma was not as deep, as he was a brilliant goalie when we played floor hockey. I turned out not to have any hidden talents.)


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:11 PM
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"balls; whizzing"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:11 PM
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ball-whizzing is the best kind of whizzing.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:12 PM
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82

I failed gym (and had to forge a note to graduate because of it) because I never remembered to bring shorts to change into. Big whoop, gym dude, I can play volleyball in jeans. But no!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:13 PM
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bring shorts to change into.

We had school-issued shorts and t-shirts that you were to change into. The expectation was that you'd take them home to wash. Suffice it to say that a lot of kids smelled pretty bad in gym class after about a month.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:16 PM
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We had school issued jerseys that, despite being washed (presumably) every day, still managed to smell varying degrees of awful without fail.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:17 PM
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Once I realized that gym did not affect my precious GPA, I started cutting with abandon. The guidance counselor explained that if I kept cutting I would fail. "I understand," I said. "I'm okay with that." They gave me a B, presumably on the principle of induction from my other grades.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:25 PM
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But yes, babywearing seems to work best with a 1:1 parent:baby ratio.

mrh, we had a carrier designed to hold twins and even triplets (two in front, one in back). It was lame, and we ended up not using it. We also had a sling-type thingy that was basically just a long piece of stretchy fabric that, properly wrapped around oneself, would hold two infants, but wasn't of much use once they got bigger. Backpack (Kelty type) plus sling works well for a while.

Apologies for interrupting the dodgeball reminiscences of the childless.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:25 PM
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One of the many painful adjustments I had to make when moving from NJ to VA was the stupid school-issued gym uniform. Predictably, they -- particularly the scratchy polyester shorts -- were unkind to most body types.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:26 PM
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I loved dodgeball. I wish we had played it more often.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:26 PM
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Once I realized that gym did not affect my precious GPA

Good heavens. Lucky you.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:30 PM
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Once I realized that gym did not affect my precious GPA

Hey, how come I didn't get that deal? Everything counted toward our GPA. Not that I could have gotten away with cutting anyway. The school would have called my parents, and they would have made me go.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:31 PM
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Someone come debug my code for me.

Laydeez.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:32 PM
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91 gets it exactly right.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:33 PM
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dodgeball reminiscences of the childless

Braggart.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:34 PM
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Apologies for interrupting the dodgeball reminiscences of the childless.

That's okay. We know it's too much to ask that the world be arranged to make our very difficult lives slightly easier. We accept that burden with grace and good humor, and reminisce about how gym class totally sucked when we can find a spare moment.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:35 PM
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I think I had more gym requirements in college than in middle or high school.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:37 PM
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Dodgeball was pretty great, even though I wasn't a particularly good thrower. My middle school also had a sweet obstacle course which we would occasionally run.

High school gym was a totally different animal. We learned how to fence!


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:41 PM
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We learned how to fence!

We learned how to score bowling manually, a skill that seems useless nowadays. Fucking gym class. Also learned: square dancing.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:44 PM
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We learned how to fence with jogging strollers.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:45 PM
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Dodgeball was great. Unless hwen we had to use the really big balls, that you (and by 'you' i mean everyone except that one overgrown dude) can't palm and so every throw is really weak.

We had showers in our lockerroom, but we never coulud use them. I don't know why.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:47 PM
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In college, I had to do two phys ed courses and two lecture-based health classes. The first of the latter adversely affected my precious GPA when my prolific skipping resulted in me showing up to the second-to-last class session, expecting some kind of review exercise for the exam, but finding instead that all the other students had agreed to move the exam forward to get it out of the way -- resulting in a "pop final." And all the questions were like "What percentage of Americans smoke? a. 25% b. 26% c. 27% d. 28%."


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:48 PM
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The bowling alley in my neighborhood has manual scoring, a skill I picked up in my 4th grade bowling league. I even had my own bowling ball, which I carried to school on bowling days. Remarkably, I was never beaten up.


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:49 PM
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I wonder what the late Maggie Ward would have made of motrin, mommy bloggers, and the like.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:53 PM
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102: that woman was a living, breathing math problem.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 9:59 PM
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We learned how to score bowling manually, a skill that seems useless nowadays.

Come the scorched-earth, Mad-Max future of no electricity and nothing to do between skirmishes over land and water except roll rocks into pyramids of small children, this will be a highly sought-after skill.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 10:33 PM
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You know, you could totally use a baby sling to carry your bowling ball.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 10:36 PM
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Or a bowling ball bag to carry your baby.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 10:40 PM
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104: Please don't bait my survivalist roommates into commenting, Kraab.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 10:42 PM
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Probably dating myself (hott!), but at keast through junior high, the girls at my school had to wear gym suits that looked pretty much like these (except they were blue).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 10:43 PM
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106: this could work.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 10:45 PM
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You know, you could totally use a baby sling to carry your bowling ball.

Doesn't Homer Simpson do that in some episode or other? If not, he should have.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 10:48 PM
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Someone please explain haskell to me.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 11:02 PM
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Modal logic, too.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 11:03 PM
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ben is weak! [up-down-left-left-right-right-select-start]

...

Dammit. It's not working.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 11:08 PM
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Ben you forgot the "laydeez".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 11:15 PM
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[up-down-left-left-right-right-select-start]

This is a joke, right?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 11:29 PM
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HS gym was pass/fail for us. To pass, you had to change into the school logo-adorned shorts and t-shirt something like 70% of the time. But it turned out that even this low standard was flexible, as there were times when I was given a chance by the gym teacher to pass if I changed for the next 5 class periods or so, even though there was no way that this, combined with my previous performance, would bring me above the 70% threshold.

A good chunk of the class periods entailed the teacher setting up some floor mats, wheeling a TV in, and putting on a Sweatin' to the Oldies video.

Our report cards had space for comments by the instructor of the class. One time the gym teacher submitted "Doesn't get enough rest for adequate class performance" to be placed next to my gym grade.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 11:33 PM
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115: Of course not.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 11:34 PM
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115: Yeah, the only thing "weak" is that attempt at recreating the Konami Code.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 11:35 PM
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118: Ouch. I'm gonna own you in badminton next gym class.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 11:37 PM
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119: Right after I skool you at Contra, apparently.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 11:41 PM
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100 pretty neatly captures my college academic expericne.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 11:48 PM
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120: I cede defeat.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 11:50 PM
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People are always surprised to learn (though I know that some others here went through the same thing, and thus won't be) that I had a "gym placement test" at the beginning of college. The default requirement was a 3 quarters of gym plus 1 quarter of swimming lessons. I passed the swim test, which meant that I made it 2 lengths of the pool without touching the bottom, or something.

The broader gym test was a series of strength, aerobic, and flexibility tests. You had to bench (on a machine, not with barbells) a certain multiple of your weight, and maybe do some bicep and leg curls. I did fine at that. The flexibility tests I failed. The aerobic test entailed running up some bleachers and then measuring your heart rate. I did poorly at that, having not taken up regular exercise until a couple years ago.

But if you were not satisfied with how that test measured your aerobic performance, you had the option of trying to improve your score by seeing how many laps you could do in a certain amount of time. So a lot of us did that, and you got the sense that a lot of people were running harder than they had ever run before. It was interesting to run with the knowledge that if I did just a couple more laps, that would mean one quarter less of gym.

I ended up having to take 1 quarter of gym.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 11-16-08 11:55 PM
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I actually quite liked p.e.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:09 AM
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||

If anyone has passing familiarity with the Johnson-Derrida-Lacan circle jerk on Poe's "The Purloined Letter" and has also seen Jonathan Glazer's film Birth do so drop me a line.

I just watched the movie and there's a great bit about letters that never arrive -- and the attendant business about castration, deferred meaning, and general psychoanalytic meshugas all seems relevant too.

Anyway.

|>


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 1:01 AM
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Going back to the post .... I can't help it if I was asleep whilst all this was going on .... Yeah, it's not the *idea* that's completely insulting and offensive, it's the actual advert. The woman sounds like a shallow fuckwit, and I can see why it has pissed off the internet-powered hordes of attachment parents (though I was told recently that they're calling themselves something else now?).

Being a single parent with two leaving the house would mean you'd need a stroller to get anywhere, I'm guessing.

Well, after a while they learn to walk. It just depends whether you need to get anywhere at a particular time.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 1:40 AM
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I have carried all three of our kids (not simultaneously) up mountains in a Baby Bjorn, and can attest that they do not suck. One in front and one in back works for a while, but depending on how big you are, that's a lot of extra mass to be toting around. Also, we're in the process of buying an SUV this very week. On the other hand, we live in a second-world country where roads and dry river beds sometimes have more than a passing similarity.


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 3:16 AM
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123: One of my colleges had a gym requirement, which I got out of by joining the tennis team and the fencing team. [Note to SF fans: my fencing coach also taught Ben Bova how to fence.] I skated through high school with an excuse from my knee surgeon, tho' I was on my HS tennis team. That really pissed off the gym teacher [who was not the tennis coach], but my doctor had granted an exception for that.

I hauled the Offspring around in a Snugli that a friend loaned me and in a backpack carrier I bought. The latter was more annoying, because I ended up with sticky, drooled-on hair.

Yeah, that ad was condescending, for all the reasons JM, LB et al. mentioned. That what happens when you employ clueless copywriters.


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 4:04 AM
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60: I see your cat and I raise you one. The kittens and I are hanging out in our office, enjoying having the air-conditioner filter the ash out of the air. The larger kitten likes to sleep behind my monitor, which involves her stomping over the right side of my keyboard, frequently hitting the "sleep" button. The smaller kitten is trying to stop me from using my mouse, the cord of which she thinks is a cat toy.

Years ago, when I used to type term papers at 3am on the day they were due, I had a cat who would lie quietly behind the typewriter, then suddenly reach up a paw and tear the page in two. I'm sure this confused the occasional professor when I couldn't make it to the xerox shop.


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 4:12 AM
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Buy an army surplus MOLLE load carrying vest and you can use the pouches in the front to hold baby bottles, diapers, tissues etc. The baby itself can be easily secured to the back of the vest using bungee cords.

A friend of mine was seriously considering something along these lines.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 5:01 AM
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Yeah, wow, awful awful ad. Lots of little signifiers in there that the copywriter is an outsider attempting to express false unity with the target audience. Dumb dumb dumb.

And I can see this as a father and the husband to a woman who is very skeptical of attachment parenting and the like - IOW, you don't need to be and "insider" to get it - you just need to have a clue. Honest to god, it's like the copywriter(s) were non-parents and/or ultra-defensive traditional* parents. Assuming Motrin canned them, they got what they deserved.

* ie, strollers and car carriers and arms only


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 7:37 AM
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Somebody explain this to me.

This must be written by the Becks of an alternate universe, one new to Unfogged and thus unaware of how people frequently wig out over nothing.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 7:41 AM
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As to bowling, I, too, can manual-score because I took a semester of bowling to complete my PE requirements at UNC. It was completely rad.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 7:44 AM
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It strikes me that having a sympathetic actress deliver most of those lines could go a long way toward changing the tone of the ad. Though probably not far enough -- you're still going to be like, 'official mom, whaa?'


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 7:45 AM
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I, too, learned how to manually score bowling in high school. It's not that hard!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 7:46 AM
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Im' just curious why manually scoring a game of bowling needs to be a taught skill. It's pretty straightforward. (Or, as straightforward as many other sports--e.g. tennis, golf). If you know the basic rules of the game, can't you pick it up pretty easily?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 7:50 AM
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It seems way easier than scoring tennis, in fact. Though I probably say this only because I have way more bowling experience than tennis experience.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 7:56 AM
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I took a semester of bowling to complete my PE requirements at UNC. It was completely rad.

Oh yeah? Meditation and archery.


Posted by: minivet | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 7:57 AM
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My 7 year old can keep score in bowling (thanks to the Wii). I arrived at my parents' one day and my dad asked me what's the highest score you can get in one game without making a strike. "Don't know and don't want to know." "Oh come on, *Elijah* worked it out!" And then he nagged me until I came up with the answer.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 7:59 AM
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I took a semester of bowling to complete my PE requirements at UNC

Me too. They still let you smoke in the bowling alley then, so the last four lanes were for the smokers in the class. Hooray for physical education!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 8:05 AM
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They still let you smoke in the bowling alley then, so the last four lanes were for the smokers in the class.

I apparently just missed this era and was so very, very sad.

Scoring bowling is not hard, no, but considering that even in my backwoods hick town the bowling alley had electronic scoring and thus no one had to learn, I think a lot of people who bowl once every few years don't really pick it up.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 8:14 AM
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Scoring in bowling has a few interesting characteristics given the way the additive effects after spares and strikes kick in. For instance, take the maximum all spare game (190) and turn half the spares in to alternating strikes and the score only goes up to 200. More bowling score math here. And those of us who suck get more for our money. Maximum balls you can bowl in a game is 21, 9 open frames with a lucky spare or strike in the 10th.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 8:52 AM
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And what about the daddy-bloggers? Will no one speak for them? Sexist!

I'm a daddy but not a blogger, but what the hell, I'll speak for myself.

I have found that one nice feature of babies is that they get progressively heavier, but they progress slow enough that you don't notice it too much, and so they are like a bowflex, but even better! As a matter of fact, I have designed a product around these facts that is just right for you!

Seriously. I'm no babywearer, I'm a baby-flexer.

Babies are the ideal workout implements, designed by Mother Nature herself to gently and naturally provide you with the exact exercise your body craves!

Babies will automatically build up your arms and shoulders, burning twice the calories in half the time! By the time your self-progressing workout implements are three or four years old you'll be ably to hold them by one hand and gently lift them above your head!

Imagine that! You'll be the hit of any party or family reunion.

All of the other kids will line up for a turn, the men will be impressed by your massive strength and the women will be swooning! "Oh, look at that, a man who is nurturing and STRONG. I want one of those too."

So friends, for only $19.99 plus shipping I will send you detailed instructions on how you, too, can have one of these amazing self-progressing baby workout implements (tm). By the time you have completed my course you will be able to make one yourself with common items found in most every household!

Beware of imitators. You might think you are getting a baby but you'll end up with a dumbbell. Ask for the official "amazing self-progressing baby workout implement (tm)."

And, for a limited time, if you order now, I will personally sign you up for my advanced "Aggressive Postures for Scaring Suitors (tm)" Yoga series. Believe me, thirteen years from now you will be glad you took the course.

Don't delay. Order Now!!


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 9:01 AM
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From junior high on, I fulfilled PE requirements with dance. Leotards and tights that haven't been washed in a while start to itch something awful.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 9:03 AM
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I secretly hoped that babies would turn out to be ideal workout implements, but it's all a lie.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 9:15 AM
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Ben, what do you want to know about haskell and modal logic?


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 9:16 AM
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I have found that one nice feature of babies is that they get progressively heavier, but they progress slow enough that you don't notice it too much, and so they are like a bowflex, but even better

Tripp has discovered the Milo of Croton workout.

He would train in the off years by carrying a newborn calf on his back every day until the Olympics took place. By the time the events were to take place, he was carrying a four year old cow on his back. He carried the full-grown cow the length of the stadium, then proceeded to kill, roast, and eat it.
It diminishes Milo's story somewhat that he practiced wrestling, a nasty, smelly sport.

Reed's PE requirement can be fulfilled by yoga, juggling and tree-climbing.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 9:31 AM
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You might think you are getting a baby but you'll end up with a dumbbell.

Ask Barbara Bush about this one.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 9:31 AM
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I nearly failed gym in my senior year of high school for refusing to wear white socks.

College PE requirements: badminton (x2), frisbee, and social dance


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 9:32 AM
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I used a bowling alley a few times which was so antiquated that each lane had to pick a person to go sit on a ledge behind the pins. After the person bowls, you return the ball on it's track back, and after each frame you put the pins back in place.

This was at the student union at Western Carolina University.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 9:34 AM
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150 - self serve bowling eh? In the good old days we actually had a hireling setting the pins, and it was traditional to roll him a quarter tip after each game.

Too bad full employment is just a thing of the past. I blame cheap energy and automation. Sigh.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 9:42 AM
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self serve bowling eh?

Acoustic bowling.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 10:05 AM
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I, too, learned how to manually score bowling in high school. It's not that hard!


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 10:14 AM
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||
Gave a bunch of 12 year olds an assignment in which they are to create their own number system by using symbols to represent 0-9 and using place values to build on from there. While grading, I find a kid whose digits 1 through 5 incorporate the Star of David. Interestingly, he calls it a "logical order of triangles"

Oh, I teach in the United Arab Emirates.
|>


Posted by: disaggregated | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 10:23 AM
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I don't think I've been to a bowling alley where you didn't have to manually score. In New England candlepin bowling is pretty popular, and everybody seems to expect that they'll score it manually.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 10:31 AM
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You buy an SUV because you are the kind of person chafing against the constraints of modern civilization. You are very successful, but weary of the compromises you must make to achieve that success, someone who is as likely to drive down a dry riverbed this weekend as deliver a carfull of kids to a soccer game.

According to research, you're also likely to feel threatened by new ideas and anxious about your sexual performance. It's basically a steel, light alloy and glass wrapper round a low-social dominance high-authoritarianism case.

"They tend to be people who are insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors." This is Bradsher's summary of the auto industry's own marketing research about SUV buyers, and he adduces numerous on-the-record comments from auto-marketing gurus to back this up. One such wise man, named Clotaire Rapaille, tells the Big Three that people buy SUVs "because they want to look as menacing as possible." It is perhaps not startling that rather than trying to alter these buyer proclivities, the manufacturers of SUVs have tried to encourage them. There are lots of self-centered and self-absorbed people with little interest in their neighbors. Somebody finally made a class of vehicles designed to bring out the worst in them....

Often the advertisements are computer-generated productions in which an SUV is digitally spliced into a natural scene because the vehicle is not in fact capable of getting to these farthest reaches of sublimity....

Bradsher describes a hilarious SUV-introduction junket in which writers were given a succession of washed and polished new Fords to drive like lunatics through a wilderness area, while they were followed everywhere by chefs, wine stewards, and a huge trailer that contained marble bathrooms for the Ford executives..

The fact that so many of them hardly have any more ground clearance than your average saloon should be very telling.

It's decadence, but not the fun kind. Speaking of which, the quotes are from this review by...Gregg Easterbrook. Astonishingly, it doesn't suck!


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 10:45 AM
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143- I recall a workout video along those lines at Apo's.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 10:51 AM
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156: That Bradsher book is great, by the way. Clotaire Rapaille is quoted as saying that if he could put a gun turret on an SUV it would triple his sales.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 10:54 AM
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143: The proposed workout is kind of a "reverse Conan the Barbarian".


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 10:56 AM
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Clotaire Rapaille

What a name.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 10:58 AM
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I teach in the United Arab Emirates
interesting, i had a patient from UAE long ago, he was visiting our country, was doing some kind of business involving those luxury birds, falcons
smuggling maybe
he said once he was going to invite me to his country and my colleagues were joking like beware, you'll get kidnapped and sold for some white camels


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 11:28 AM
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given a succession of washed and polished new Fords to drive like lunatics through a wilderness area, ripping up the ecosystem and topsoil at only slightly less catastrophic a rate than ATV hobbyists.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 11:29 AM
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And now SUVs are on the edge of destroying the U.S. auto industry. I mean, the crisis tipped them over but the huge losses when gas prices spiked in 2006-07 set them up for the fall.

That Easterbrook review is great, I think I'm going to buy that book.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 11:39 AM
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Obviously these mommy-bloggers just need to understand that it's much better not to own a TV.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 11:43 AM
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And those of us who suck get more for our money.

No comment.

This was at the student union at Western Carolina University.

Dude. I spent a lot of weekends there. A cousin was an RA there and every other year through junior and senior high I attended All-District Band at WCU. I vastly preferred it to the off-years at Mars Hill because WCU at least had something resembling on-campus entertainments. I am so sad that I never knew about the manual bowling.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:02 PM
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It's decadence, but not the fun kind.

Actually, having driven a Grand Cherokee for a number of years, they are hella fun. I really liked mine. I really like the Prius for which I traded it, too, but the SUV was a really, really fun ride.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:04 PM
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the SUV was a really, really fun ride

In what way?


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:06 PM
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Read has the best stories.

Falconry is big both in the Arab world and in the Turkish and Mongol world. Some Turks use full-sized eagle for hunting birds.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:12 PM
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Off-topic:

If I were to resign officially from the LDS church, what should I change my handle to?


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:17 PM
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Aunt Jemormon.


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:19 PM
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I like it!


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:21 PM
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165: Whoo Cullawhee! I went to summer camp there for years and years. I relied on summer camp there really heavily as an emotional anchor, as proof to me that life didn't have to be as crappy as middle school made it seem. So now I have huge buckets of affection for that place.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:30 PM
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168 thanks, though the story was not about falconry :)
he had a coronary stent before and was experiencing some angina, all i could do was some anticoagulation and morphine
so i suppose he got pretty high, coz was inviting me and praising our medical system, coz 7 days of hospital stay cost him like a hundred $


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:34 PM
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In what way?

Great sight lines, extremely comfortable, surprisingly nimble for its size, very useful on the occasions when we would get otherwise snowed in at our house in the middle of nowhere, perfect car in which to go out with a group of friends or take a road trip, tons of cargo room and it looked really hot next to boring sedans. Yes, yes, I'm sure a hundred kittens died every time I cranked the engine. It was a fun car, though.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:36 PM
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169: Jack'o'lantern


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:39 PM
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Whoo Cullawhee!

Hook 'em Catamounts! That said, everyone I know (myself included) loved it in jr. high/high school but hated it in college. Weird.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:41 PM
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169: Exmormon?


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:43 PM
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xmrmn


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:45 PM
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with capitalization where it needed of course, otherwise it looks kinda ugly


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:46 PM
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Keep your handle, JM. Once you go Jack, you never go back.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:48 PM
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's


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:50 PM
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And now SUVs are on the edge of destroying the U.S. auto industry.

Given legacy costs and labor costs in general, selling SUVs is better for US autos than selling tiny cars; the profit margin is higher. Unless people stop buying SUVs. Labor costs are the ultimate problem of US autos.

I'm sure a hundred kittens died every time I cranked the engine

A thousand kittens, read...


Posted by: disaggregated | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 12:53 PM
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Hook 'em Catamounts!

I initially read this as "catamites." Woo hook em!


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 1:04 PM
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||

I don't quite feel like a book on SUVs, but I'm looking for another book to round out my I-should've-bought-these-years-ago order that so far includes:

Off The Books: The Underground Economy of the Urban Poor
America's Constitution: A Biography

A friend just suggested Your Brain on Music. Has anyone read that book, and does anyone have any other particularly good suggestions? I generally tend to read non-fiction, though I'm currently getting through The Master and Margarita alongside the non-fiction Devil Take the Hindmost.

Thanks!

|>


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 1:05 PM
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Oh shit, that should be this link:

This Is Your Brain on Music


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 1:06 PM
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The Master and Margarita

Gods I love that book.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 1:07 PM
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Unless people stop buying SUVs.

Um, bingo. That was the point, I believe.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 1:07 PM
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143- I recall a workout video along those lines at Apo's.

SP,

Hey - hey! Notice I said gently lift the child overhead!

I assure you no children are injured during my workout. And 143 was meant to be humorous but it does have a kernel of truth to it. I have personally created these implements myself and have performed all the excercises I endorse, and it does work. Granted it is no "100 pushups in 100 days" or whatever and it is more of "a moment of pleasure, a lifetime of toil" but you will get bigger muscles out of the deal.

So what are you waiting for? Send in your $19.99 and I'll tell you what - for my internet friends I'll wave the postage. That's right, a special deal, just for you.

Plus, if you play the daily lottery, I've got a system that I absolutely guarantee will make you hundreds of dollars a year! That's right, If it doesn't work I'll refund your money, guaranteed! You have nothing to lose!

So act now!


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 1:11 PM
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Labor costs are the ultimate problem of US autos.

Nice troll. Honda and Toyota manage to provide well for their workers and remain solvent. Why can't the American companies do that?

My latest naive economic question: why doesn't the re-release of the EV1 play a big role in anyone's scenario for a revived GM?


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 1:17 PM
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"Plus, if you play the daily lottery, I've got a system that I absolutely guarantee will make you hundreds of dollars a year! That's right, If it doesn't work I'll refund your money, guaranteed! You have nothing to lose!

This is a better deal than social security for lots of people.

189.1: Lots of retired US workers with generous pensions. And US auto workers get paid lots more than their counterparts in Toyota's US factories on account of unionization.


Posted by: disaggregated | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 1:25 PM
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174: I think of that sort of stuff as plausible justifications for driving an un-fun vehicle, not as making it fun, but OK. Other than "looked really hot," which I really don't get at all, but tastes vary.

What I really, really love: big wheels and low-profile tires on huge SUVs. Does not compute.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 1:34 PM
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This is a better deal than social security for lots of people.

Um, no.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 1:36 PM
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189: I think that's the niche the Volt is aimed at.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 1:38 PM
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II

Commenting from Bolt Bus: wheeee!

I>

(no, I can't do the proper pause/play thingies)


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 1:39 PM
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Gary Marcus' books on mind/brain matters are great, IMO.

Guy de Maupassant's Bel-Ami is deeply underrated.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 1:40 PM
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192: LB is far too polite. We've been through this at length here, Dis-a, and you're completely full of shit.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 1:45 PM
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disaggregated,

You make a false comparison. My scheme makes you money - today! SS keeps granny off your doorstep - today! They are not the same thing, so it is dumb to compare them.

But send the $19.99 and I'll send you the complete package - the make-an-amazing self-progressing baby workout implement (tm) manual, the lottery system guaranteed to make hundreds a year or more, and now, for a limited time only, I will include one psychic skill to amaze your friends. Yes, that is correct, I am including, but only at this time, one psychic skill to amaze your friends!

Think about it - attract the laydeez, and make money, and amaze your friends! You can't live without this! Send your money. Supplies are limited. This is a limited time offer. Act now.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 2:02 PM
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196: John. Geeze. Hush up. You'll scare away the suckers valued customers. I'm trying to make some money here.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 2:05 PM
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194 -

I love the Bolt Bus! Why do they sell out so fast? I need to get to Boston, fools! Buy more busses!


Posted by: Trevor | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 2:30 PM
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I'm looking for another book to round out my I-should've-bought-these-years-ago order that so far includes:

The Gift is one of those books that will provide new conceptual categories for understanding the world.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 2:38 PM
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At their core, the religious right is run by angry, mean, arrogant and backward people. Just look at their leaders (far too many of whom bear a striking resemblance to rather fey, closeted gay men).

John Aravosis said it, so it's OK.

Rolling Stone's "100 Greatest Singers of All Time": Ronnie Spector's one it even though her career was about 10 minutes playing time. Elvis Costello isn't on the list at all, whereas Ray Charles is #2. Don't mess with Ray. (Why do I know this? It's Alterman's fault).


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 2:46 PM
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A friend just suggested [This Is] Your Brain on Music. Has anyone read that book

I've read it. It's a quick and entertaining read; Levitin spends a bit more time than I'd like talking about all the famous people he's talked to (he used to work in the music industry before going to grad school), but it's a good book nonetheless.

Based on the first few chapters, though, I'd avoid The World in Six Songs, which seems to be more memoir than science of music.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 2:54 PM
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I love the Bolt Bus! Why do they sell out so fast?

This one is about 1/8 full. A bunch of remarkably well-groomed Benetton-looking young people, and me. I am definitely raising the average age on this bus.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 2:58 PM
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180.---Thanks, Bave, I think. I'm not sure whether I'm going to take that step, but now would be a good time to do it, if I were to do it. There hadn't seemed much of a point to it before, if you know what I mean.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 3:03 PM
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"xmrmn" looks like the name of a minimalist window manager.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 3:07 PM
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xxxmrmn looks like a pr0n site for dorks who are into men from Minnesota.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 3:13 PM
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Speaking of books, I've just read Nathan McCall's Them. Startling for its excellent ear for black American speech, mores, etc. compared to whites'. I was talking to a colleague, who pointed out that you would think that a guy who has worked in professional, majority-white jobs for so long would do better. The book's topic (gentrification) is pretty interesting regardless.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 3:18 PM
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206: xxxmrmn hosts Emerson/Tripp slash-fic?


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 3:19 PM
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And Chopper and Minneapolitan too. And some Finnish guy.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 3:21 PM
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202: Thanks, Josh!


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 3:37 PM
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Somehow, thoughts of Chopper/minneapolitan fan-fic run straight towards a buddy-detective story. One binds the bad-guys with smoked meats while the other leverages things on behalf of the proletariat.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 3:46 PM
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193: But why wait until 2012 to roll out a hybrid, when you could put a fully electric vehicle on the streets right now, before Honda and Toyota put out their plug-in hybrids


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 4:01 PM
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202: BTW, I'm 99% certain I have two copies of This Is Your Brain On Music. I'll mail you one of them if you want.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 4:37 PM
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I am definitely raising the average age on this bus.

While, in some sense, it's true that we are all getting older all the time, it can be kind of paralyzing to think in these terms, Witt.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 5:04 PM
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212: I assume that it would take just as long as to roll out full production of the EV-1 as it would the Volt. Most of the work is probably in scaling up production to commercial volumes.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 5:40 PM
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211: My first feature film is definitely going to feature me and a similarly large friend as the detectives, and we will always be arriving places in our Karmann Ghia which will be humorous.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 5:57 PM
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216: You'll both need to be wearing ankle-length dusters to complete the picture.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 5:59 PM
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thoughts of Chopper/minneapolitan fan-fic run straight towards a buddy-detective story.

Read the punctuation, then try again.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11-17-08 6:23 PM
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Can still be slash though can't it? They can be shagging in between cleaning up society. Someone please write it?


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11-18-08 1:42 AM
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219: during! It's all part and parcel.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-18-08 1:59 AM
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184/185: I was underwhelmed by This Is Your Brain On Music but my expectations may have been too high (i read a great review before buying). It was quck and entertaining, though.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 11-18-08 3:20 AM
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Re: the US auto industry. The book you need is The Machine that Changed the World.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 11-18-08 4:27 AM
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i had a patient from UAE long ago, he was visiting our country, was doing some kind of business involving those luxury birds, falcons smuggling maybe

I knew a guy who did an internship in the finance department of an airline, where his job was toting up the expenses to submit invoices to the Sultan of Brunei for his charters. It seems that the Sultan liked to charter full-sized aircraft to bring along his falcons on his travels, and that said falcons were not transported in cages, as one might expect, but were allowed to fly about freely in the interior of an A320 from which the seats had been removed. The invoices were quite complex because they included charges for all the damage caused by falcon claws on aircraft interiors.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11-18-08 4:41 AM
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i had a patient from UAE long ago, he was visiting our country, was doing some kind of business involving those luxury birds, falcons smuggling maybe

I knew a guy who did an internship in the finance department of an airline, where his job was toting up the expenses to submit invoices to the Sultan of Brunei for his charters. It seems that the Sultan liked to charter full-sized aircraft to bring along his falcons on his travels, and that said falcons were not transported in cages, as one might expect, but were allowed to fly about freely in the interior of an A320 from which the seats had been removed. The invoices were quite complex because they included charges for all the damage caused by falcon claws on aircraft interiors.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11-18-08 6:04 AM
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I used "fan-fic" to describe Chopper/minneapolitan fiction without it being necessarily about the sex, as that is the difference between fan-fic and slash-fic that I garnered back in my Usenet infancy. On the other hand, I may be woefully naive about such things; I used to read alt.sex.homosexual for the sci-fi.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11-18-08 8:15 AM
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It's the slash sign that did it - if you just want them to be friends, you have to write Chopper & minneapolitan. So I hear.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11-18-08 11:31 AM
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Yes, the slash sign is why slash-fic is called "slash-fic".


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11-18-08 11:38 AM
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For completeness I note this response.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-19-08 6:56 AM
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Midol commercial gets parodied with baby-wearing vs. boob jobs (via AdLand)


Posted by: KJ | Link to this comment | 11-19-08 10:35 AM
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