Re: But I like meatballs!

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Are you saying that Twilight falls in between the Night People and the day world?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 10:12 AM
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Also relevant

The phrase "I dig" not only means "I understand" but "I am a special sort of person who understands in a very special way."

Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 10:23 AM
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Did anyone read the n+1 article "On Food"?


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 10:24 AM
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I grok, you dig, he understands.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 10:29 AM
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What number is it? I probably won't be able to stand it, anyway.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 10:30 AM
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5: Weak stomach?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 10:31 AM
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1: Day Man, Fighter of the Night Man


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 10:32 AM
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7: great, now I'm going to have that song stuck in my head all day again.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 10:34 AM
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WE'LL TAKE SOMETHING THAT'S artistically interesting, and then, because we like it, we'll overdo it ten times, thereby destroying it. Like for example when a guy tells some funny stories based on his childhood on the radio and then publishes them as short stories and incorporates a few into a nice little movie that he narrates. Everybody thought it was great. So the next thing you know, every Christmas the movie plays a jillion times and the house in Cleveland where it was filmed is a museum.*

*Some friends went there recently. The mean elf lady in the Santa line was a docent.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 10:38 AM
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8: ...and Sifu cements the fate that no one else will click on the link in 7.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 10:41 AM
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10: wait, no! It's super catchy and awesome and not like gross or...

There's nothing I can say now, is there? Really, though, it's perfectly tame.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 10:47 AM
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It would be like designing a house to look like a Spanish Galleon. Everybody likes the looks of those, so you might as well live in one.

As usual, I'm not sure what the hell Ben is saying in his post, but I feel that I should support the rejection of the mindset cited above.*

* That is, in clear English: don't design your houses to look like Spanish Galleons.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 11:17 AM
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But if you had a houseboat moorage, wouldn't it be cool to live in an actual Spanish galleon?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 11:23 AM
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Ogged would understand.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 11:25 AM
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13: Oh, sure. Well, maybe not the whole deal - the masts seem like overkill - but maybe those cool leaded-glass bays at the back end.

Is there any apparent explanation for the phrase "creeping meatballism"? I can't believe that a WASP in 1957 was making reference to the ubiquity of inauthentic Italian-American restaurant fare. So what's the deal?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 11:31 AM
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I think Shepherd invented it, but I'm not sure.

Meatballs are homogenous? But then it would be better to say "creeping weisswurstism" or something like that.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 11:38 AM
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ubiquity of inauthentic Italian-American restaurant fare

Blame Chef Boiardi- AKA Boy-ar-dee.

Italian food used to be a cheap date, then it went upscale (outside of pizza parlors). Same thing has happened to Mexican. Sure, one can still buy from the taco truck, but twenty years ago there was no such thing as a white tablecloth Mexican restaurant.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 11:42 AM
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OED's 3rd definition of "meatball":

slang (chiefly N. Amer.). An unintelligent, boring, or ineffectual person, esp. one with a muscular physique. Cf. earlier MEATHEAD n.

First citation 1939, from this guy.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 11:47 AM
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16: Searching about it looks like he did. NY Times credited him as did Wentworth and Flexner's Dictionary of American Slang. And Shepherd implicitly acknowledges that it was his in this reaction from his radio show;

July 3, 1960 Show - "Have you seen in the current--in the current New York Times book review section, there's a big review on a dictionary of slang. Have you seen that? Well, there's a big review. It's the cover review as a matter of fact. Well, I'll tell you, I feel like I've really made it now. I mean, I've really made it. And you know it--I never would have dreamed, when I was a kid that this could ever possibly have happened. I have made the dictionary. I'm serious. I am in the dictionary. On page 130 of the new slang dictionary. Wentworth and Flexner's Dictionary of American Slang."

"That I--I have contributed a word that has become part of American slang. It's a great feeling, you know, that you really have--somehow--affected your--you know, your time, your country, and I--I'm telling you --this is a true story.... Any of you old listeners who might possibly think you know what phrase it was, give us a call, and we'll award the brass figlagee with bronze oak leaf palm. What a fantastic feeling it is to know that you're in the dictionary, you know?!"

Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 11:52 AM
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"creeping weisswurstism"

I always make the mistake of ordering weißwurst, because it sounds so good on the menu. And it always sucks sucks sucks. I did have a piece last time I was in Germany, and, sure enough, it was as good as it always sounded. Weird that someone would go to the trouble of making an unknown foreign foodstuff but not bother to get it right.

Interestingly, that's my same objection to German "ketchup."


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:01 PM
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If you're going to use the "ß", you may as well capitalize the "w".

The weisswurst one can get at Dittmer's Wurst Haus, and those one can get at Rosamunde, are both good.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:05 PM
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12: I thought that my original comment was perfectly clear, but now that it's been front-paged by Ben I can only assume that it's incredibly opaque, and possibly in German.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:10 PM
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But if you had a houseboat moorage, wouldn't it be cool to live in an actual Spanish galleon?

That depends. Can I have cannons?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:13 PM
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I would want cannons, masts, and of COURSE the complicated shrouds and lines and stays. Then my children would all become professional acrobats and mountain climbers and, uh, ballistics engineers.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:17 PM
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The difference between Millennial Meatballism and the '50s creeping version is that in Shepherd's day, advertising and public speech in general was still earnest and wore its fakeness on its sleeve, so it was easy to become a longhair hepcat night person -- just cop the attitude of not buying the BS. Boundaries were more clear. But today, all public speech and PR and advertising is postmodern and ironic -- like a Hardee's ad, affectless, or like an Ari Fleischer press conference -- so there is a self-reflexiveness to inauthentic discourse which says "I call attention to the fact that I am not authentic, which makes me authentic and cool, because I don't buy my own BS." But of course this is a lie -- calling attention to one's BS does not make one authentic. Yet neither does copping the night person attitude -- we are burned out on the failed project of coolness and hipness, aren't we? There is no authentic place to retreat to; we live in a PKDickian world of simulacra.

I don't really believe that, but I do think discussions of authenticity are exhausted and pointless, and that the difference in pop culture between now and then is that then, such discussions may have had some use.


Posted by: rm | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:18 PM
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And you'd need 50 of them before you could move the thing, natch.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:18 PM
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23: I was thinking you'd want to have double-glazed windows in the openings for comfort and energy efficiency, but with casement windows and wheeled cannon carriages, you could have both. I'm liking this idea more and more.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:22 PM
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Can I have cannons?

2nd Amendment, baby!


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:25 PM
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I don't know why there are no houseboat moorings in Pittsburgh. Possibly the City code doesn't admit of the possibility. The fact that the rivers are all heavily navigated (#1 or 2 inland port in the country) may impact things, but there are certainly marinas and such. Just nobody lives there.

Hmm.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:27 PM
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JRoth, when submitting the plans for the houseboat/ galleon just tell the Planning department that the it is an homage to the Bucs. There may even be some city money for you. When you hoist the Jolly Roger and start taking barges hostage you can play "We are Family" in the background.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:33 PM
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Lee ports in the Carribbean aren't nearly as well garrisoned as they used to be. Santo Domingo, Maricaibo, Tortuga, here we come!


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:34 PM
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an homage to the Bucs

It took me a few seconds to figure out why a tribute to Tampa's football team would sway Pittsburgh planners.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:36 PM
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The song was meant to evoke the Pirates glory days. Too subtle?


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:38 PM
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I keep hoping for the Pittsburgh Pirates to announce some sort of partnership/sponsorship deal with the Orlando Pirates, South Africa's biggest football team.

Presumably being called the "Pirates" helped them snag the number one black South African shortstop prospect.


Posted by: Cryptec nid | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:39 PM
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34: It is true that back in the day (50s & 60s), the Pirates were pioneers in raiding scouting and signing talent in the Caribbean.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:45 PM
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30 is excellent.

Actually, the original plans for PNCPark included a lifesize - but not realistic - pirate ship. I can't recall if it was to be in the water, but it was for kids to play on, and thus brightly colored and plastic-y, rather than authentic and cool.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:46 PM
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This was a pretty damned awesome (and fast!) pirate ship, now sadly destroyed.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:51 PM
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37.---But where are the cannons?


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:53 PM
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38 is right. At a minimum, they should have had functioning nerf cannons.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:54 PM
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I'd bet I'm the only one here who heard the Creeping Meatballism broadcasts live. Emerson?

In any event, what parts of culture beyond the basics aren't synthetic? They are created and exist because they benefit someone(s) in them and are sold to the others.

Have we now reserved "authentic" for cultures that haven't evolved the brassiere?


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:55 PM
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Actually, my big Pittsburgh development fantasy is to turn Brunot's Island, which is just downriver with a postcard view of Downtown, into an auto-free enclave with only pedestrian and boat access*.

It's currently owned by the local power company, which has a power plant on one end and woods on the other - it's apparently rather a wildlife refuge - and there is, in fact, no access except by boat or walking alongside the railroad bridge that traverses the island.

* As it happens, that article was the cover piece the week our first review was published.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:57 PM
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40: It seems to me that it isn't uniquely American, but rather particularly American to strongly couple cultural signifiers with economic activity. This is largely a post-war phenomena though, as far as I can see.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 12:58 PM
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I don't know why there are no houseboat moorings in Pittsburgh.

Likewise Portland. There are a couple short stretches of moorings (one of which was featured in one of the many bad movies filmed here), but it's a river city, for crying out loud. Maybe there's something fundamentally undesirable about houseboats, but they do seem pretty cool.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:00 PM
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I was just musing on whether we could authentically assess things from cultures of the distant past as good or bad by our standards.

Apparently the library has lots and lots of CDs of world music and/or ethnographic CDs. I borrowed this one and it is by far the most boring thing I have ever heard, probably also the most repetitive, and also one of the most irritating. But I also borriwed this, which is great.


Posted by: Cryptec nid | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:00 PM
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they should have had functioning nerf cannons.

I'm not sure if I am thrilled or disgusted that Nerf now has both machine guns and a long range sniper rifle, for more authentic playing army.

http://www.i4u.com/full-review-510.html

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/weapons/nerf-sniper-rifle-is-three-feet-of-fun-324753.php


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:01 PM
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There is no authentic place to retreat to; we live in a PKDickian world of simulacra.

Maybe you do. I live in a Baudrillardian world of simulacra.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:03 PM
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Huh. I live in a world that can't even spell "simulacra," much less define it.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:04 PM
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one of which was featured in one of the many bad movies filmed here

Pittsburgh's rivers are featured in this classic.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:06 PM
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I live in a world.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:10 PM
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48: That was originally going to be called Three Rivers; probably best for Pittsburgh that they chose a more generic name. (And when JRoth posted above I was trying to remember whether Bruce Willis supposedly lived on a houseboat in the movie. I am half thinking he did.) They filmed a crash scene near my house (car over a hill). Per usual much stuff and nonsense for a very short scene.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:14 PM
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I pretend to live in a fake simulacra.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:17 PM
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There used to be houseboats in Portand, out St. Helens Road I think.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:17 PM
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I couldn't figure out why the river patrol was a demotion for Willis. It seems like a dream job. SJP as the diver, WTF?


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:18 PM
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Pittsburgh's rivers are featured in this classic.

It always turns up in popular votes for best local movie. Everyone knows it's ridiculous (It's about a river cop who lives in a riverboat; we have neither), but it's exciting and shows off the rivers to good effect. The opening chase scene jumps all over town for fun, local "spot-the-mistake" watching. Also, I think it shows a pre-anorexia Sarah Jessica Parker.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:26 PM
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"houseboat;"

And I meant to say that SJP shows some skin.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:28 PM
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52: Yeah, that's one of the stretches, off Sauvie Island; the other's on the Vancouver side of the Columbia. There are a few scattered elsewhere as well, further south on the Willamette and some on other parts of the Columbia.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:28 PM
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Vancouver side of the Columbia.

This briefly confused the hell out of me.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:30 PM
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57: Why? It's the same side regardless of which Vancouver you're thinking of.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:36 PM
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The distinction between the two Vancouvers is a source of frequent confusion.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:37 PM
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Not to anyone who's been to both, of course.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:39 PM
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Three, actually.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:40 PM
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My cousin lived for a long time on a houseboat in the 79th street Boat Basin in NYC. It was very cold in the winter, as I remember.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:41 PM
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What's the third?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:41 PM
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It always turns up in popular votes for best local movie. Everyone knows it's ridiculous (It's about a river cop who lives in a riverboat; we have neither), but it's exciting and shows off the rivers to good effect. The opening chase scene jumps all over town for fun, local "spot-the-mistake" watching.

Is it better than "Innocent Blood"?


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:42 PM
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61: The canonical one is in canada.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:42 PM
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What's the third?

Presumably Vancouver Island, on which is located Victoria but not Vancouver the city.

And then, of course, you've got this one, harder to confuse.


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:44 PM
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The low-rent one is in Washington.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:46 PM
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And this one.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:46 PM
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Why? It's the same side regardless of which Vancouver you're thinking of.

So I reasoned as I directed a friend to the Toronto side of the Allegheny.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:49 PM
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So, JRoth, do you want to be a pirate, and get the chix, or an explorer, and have towns named after you that are in the same geographical area and are as such sometimes confusing?


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:50 PM
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69: This city seems to foster people asking for directions in a way that is....shall we say, at the wrong order of magnitude.

Once I encountered a guy pulling his delivery van out of one of the alleys in the middle of Oakland, asking how to get to the Waterfront. That was easy to answer, basically take one street for about 40 blocks, take another street for about 40 blocks, turn left and then immediately right, and then go down a giant hill and across a river. But I had the impression that he thought he was maybe five stoplights away.

Another time, an old lady driving a car full of boxes and bags was driving extremely slowly, as if looking for an address, on one of the side streets parallel to Forbes Avenue, and then asked me if I could tell her "how to get to the South Hills". Any sort of answer to that would either contain way too much detail, or not nearly enough detail.


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 1:57 PM
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Any sort of answer to that would either contain way too much detail, or not nearly enough detail.

You have obviously never heard the phrase "You can't get there from here".

Or my other favorite "Why do you want to go there?"


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 2:02 PM
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The answer to that sort of question is "you need to thattaway for at least 20 minutes or so, and then ask someone else." Unfortunately, I usually see the lost person ask someone else immediately.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 2:07 PM
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72: Or, to the question "Does it make a difference which route I take?": "Not to me it don't."


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 2:11 PM
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I once had some people stop me near Headhouse Square in Philadelphia and ask me how to get to an address that was somewhere near the Penn campus. I was like, "Go that way about three miles, cross the river, then turn right." They were apparently planning to walk there, but after I gave them the directions they decided to drive instead.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 2:14 PM
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||

People desperate for more Tom Friedman schadenfreude (Emerson) should pick up today's WSJ, which has a feature on the Bucksbaum family's woes (though nothing directly about him or his wife).

|>


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 2:16 PM
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O.T. Very O.T.

I have just received a report that "Hungry Hungry Hippos" as well as Tinker Toys and Lincoln Logs are alive and well at stores in L.A.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 2:23 PM
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To return to the OP, was someone under the impression that there weren't the same complaints about inauthenticity in the '50's? I Howl in disbelief and dismay.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 2:25 PM
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So, JRoth, do you want to be a pirate, and get the chix, or an explorer, and have towns named after you that are in the same geographical area and are as such sometimes confusing?
I want to be an architect and get the chix.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 2:28 PM
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I Howl in disbelief and dismay.

I loved the Steve Martin beatnik poem on that old SNL.
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/76/76e.phtml


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 2:31 PM
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I met some Germans once at a party in D.C. They were planning on driving to California the next day for a "quick trip," since they'd come all the way to the States already. They were shocked when I told them it would take several days to drive there. How can it take more than a few hours to drive across the country?


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 2:33 PM
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Ooh, a couple weekends ago, in sleety weather, an SUV full of frat boy types pulled over to ask me (and AB and Iris and Kai) where the nearest beer distributor was. We were in the Strip, and the closest one I could think of was King of the Hill. I gave them directions to the general neighborhood, wondering if they'd turn back when they realized I had sent them into the Scary Black Neighborhood (it isn't, but is perceived as such).

But yeah, the problem of someone asking how to get someplace that's in an entirely other neighb is troubling. Hence the common tales of "just follow me" (which I myself have done).


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 2:33 PM
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I want to be an architect and get the chix.

Well, then you would have to be Mr. Right.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 2:34 PM
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80: I didn't remember that one. Very nice.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 2:39 PM
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79: That doesn't always work out so well.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 2:44 PM
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78: Right. Am I so soon forgotten?


Posted by: Maynard G Krebs | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 2:44 PM
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85: Details.

Actually, the best part was the speedboat chase across Lake Minnetonka when Wright was being pursued in violation of the Mann Act. It was BS - the minor in question was the daughter of his inamorata - but still pretty exciting for a 60-y.o. or whatever he was at the time.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 2:56 PM
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The Mann Act outlaws speedboat chases of aged architects?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 3:01 PM
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It's amazing the things that get tucked into bills on the quiet, isn't it?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 3:02 PM
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Actually, the best part was the speedboat chase across Lake Minnetonka when Wright was being pursued in violation of the Mann Act.

Chased by the Bruce Willis character (now played by Rutger Hauer, in Striking Distance 2: Driftless Drift, direct to DVD at a store near you!


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 3:06 PM
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I don't really believe that, but I do think discussions of authenticity are exhausted and pointless, and that the difference in pop culture between now and then is that then, such discussions may have had some use.

Unfogged: what those who won't read Zizek are condemned to.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 3:07 PM
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89 to 91.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 3:09 PM
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)


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 3:10 PM
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Frank Lloyd Wright himself would be played by Powers Boothe, à la Sin City. Frequent references to him as a "sicko", how he controls the local government and its spineless politicians, etc.

In the Sarah Jessica Parker role, Rutger Hauer's sidekick is an ineffectual environmentalist / female bomb disposal expert who is always worried that the giant explosions and gunfights are going to damage habitat of the Iowa Pleistocene Snail.


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 3:15 PM
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"We're in Wisconsin, missy. There ain't no damn Wisconsin Pleistocene Snail. Now let's go catch us a pervert."


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 3:15 PM
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||

Jesse Jr. has confessed to being Candidate #5. Questions about being asked about Blago's contacts with Obama staffers & the SEIU. Will this thing spread?

|>


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 3:17 PM
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I read some Zizek the other day, and yet I'm still here.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 3:19 PM
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But you aren't condemned to be here.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 3:24 PM
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yet.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 3:27 PM
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96 - With any luck this will kill the political career of JJjr. Enough already with the dynastic politics.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 3:28 PM
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Enough already with the dynastic politics.

America needs its form of aristocracy, this isn't likely to change.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 3:34 PM
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I'm condemned to read comment sections were everyone discusses how the current crisis proves that banks have too much government interference. This is like my hour in the exercise yard.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 3:35 PM
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Jesse Jackson Senior never held any political office, did he?


Posted by: Cryptec Nid | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 3:48 PM
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103 - No, I don't think he did, but he's still a celebrity politician of a sort.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 3:53 PM
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To the extent I've hear JJJr, I've liked him. Unlike his dad, he hold elected office. In interviews he talks about the civil rights movement shifting from a church-based, authoritarian leadership model to a democratic model.

It sounded good.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 4:02 PM
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Hey, a corrupt, nepotistic democratic model is still a democratic model. Well, sort of, at least.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 4:16 PM
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Then again...


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 6:36 PM
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||

The title of this paper amuses me, because I am six years old.

|>


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 6:42 PM
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I've always heard good things about Jesse, Jr., and have been impressed the couple of times I've heard him speak. Go hate on the Romneys, togolosh.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 7:17 PM
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108: And this one.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-10-08 7:24 PM
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103 -- Shadow Senator for DC for one term.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 5:39 AM
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dsquared in 91: Unfogged: what those who won't read Zizek are condemned to.

I haven't read any Zizek, but I'd like to. Where would you suggest that I start?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 6:26 AM
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Hell, BG, Zizek is online in vast quantity. Wiki page, Stanford page, home page, Kotsko's material, Kotsko's book, many pages about him

Online Articles in English

Maybe by subject matter, topic, or theme?


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 8:36 AM
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Bourdieu or DeBord over Zizek, I say. Zizek is an entertainer first and anything else second. Societe de Spectacle is


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 8:54 AM
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magnificently open-ended.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 8:56 AM
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and online


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 9:03 AM
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Christmas shopping related men's fashion bleg:

While I've been married to Buck for ages, and the fact that he has the proportions of a gibbon is generally fine with me, it makes Christmans shopping maddening. Are there any skinny men out there with extremely long arms who can tell me what's a good brand of heavy, outdoorsy shirt (you know, the ones they call 'chamois' despite not actually being leather) that will neither leave four inches of his wrists hanging out nor flap around his torso like a tarp? Something generally proportioned for the tall and narrow?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 9:07 AM
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Le spectacle se présente comme une énorme positivité indiscutable et inaccessible. Il ne dit rien de plus que "ce qui apparaît est bon, ce qui est bonn apparaît." L'attitude qu'il exige par principe est cette accpetation passive qu'il a déjà en fait obtenue par sa manière d'apparaître sans réplique, par son monopole de l'apparence.


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 9:10 AM
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117: I'm about 6'4" and fairly skinny, and the Large "tall" size from either Land's End, LL Bean or Eddie Bauer usually fits nicely. Hope this helps...


Posted by: toops | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 9:23 AM
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Hrm. Knocking that down to 6'2" and very very skinny, and I'm probably looking at a medium tall. Thanks.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 9:24 AM
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You're thinking small, LB. This year, get Buck a gift certificate for arm reduction surgery.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 9:27 AM
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I'm oddly-shaped compared to the dumpling-men that clothes are made for too. Some manufacturers now make Long or Tall sizes (Eddie Bauer does), which help some. Athletic cut is another pseud for not pot-bellied.
But the only way to really tell is to take an item of clothing with the right sleeve and waist size to a store and compare seams, catalogs are totally unpredictable.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 9:30 AM
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LB, I was thinking Eddie Bauer too, some stuff there should fit the bill, I suspect.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 9:33 AM
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And again thanks. I probably should have been able to figure that out on my own -- I was just standing in a store this morning looking at a rack of mediums with sleeves that would fit me, and larges that looked like they had enough fabric to make a tent, and freaked. I don't buy a lot of clothes for Buck, and his sizes confuse me.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 9:42 AM
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121: Then we'd have to stop storing everything in the kitchen on the shelves eight feet up. It's like living with Inspector Gadget with the extendable arms.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 9:43 AM
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On the West Coast all the pants that fit my waist were too long in the leg, but here in the Midwest men's legs are of a more reasonable length. It's the fault of the West Coast gays, I imagine, with their narcissism and exercise perving.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 9:46 AM
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Then we'd have to stop storing everything in the kitchen on the shelves eight feet up.

If you comparison shop, maybe you can find a surgeon who will throw in a leg extension surgery for half-price.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 10:05 AM
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Regional sizing really puzzles me-- definitely exists, midwest clothes with identical size labels are fat compared to coasts, no question. But the logistics seems crazy-- are there manufacturers who just do sizes for heavy(skinny) people, and stores in the midwest(coasts) order from these? But lots of stores have nationwide distribution, so how does that work?


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 10:05 AM
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In the case of pants, a 36-28 fits my dumplingish body, but in Oregon you'll mostly see 36-32. So the retailers and wholesalers order that way.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 10:15 AM
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Yeah, but pants are sized with actual measurements. Your standard L shirt is different in an outlet of a national store Missouri vs Coasts, apparently the problem is much more severe for incomprehensible women's clothing sizes. It's the uneven distribution of identically labelled but systematically different objects that has me puzzled.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 10:28 AM
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Manufacturers and retailers hate us and want to drive us mad.

A couple of years ago, I kept on hearing about places where you'd go and strip down to your underwear, get scanned by sharks with frickin' laser beams, and then have clothing identified that would fit your measurements as if custom tailored -- like, there was a Levis store that would do this.

This does not seem to have become common.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 10:31 AM
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131: It'll spend 15 years getting perfected in Japan before you see it in the mall here. And that will be a cut resolution version that doesn't really work.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 10:35 AM
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PETA raised a stink about the sharks, and rightly so.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 10:36 AM
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We gave them fricking laser beams and the perk of eating the odd careless shopper. What else do you want?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 10:38 AM
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127: Do it right, and he could go as a Tyrannosaurus Rex for Halloween.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 10:42 AM
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I want shark fin soup. Some of those shrimpy steamed dumplings. The Shanghai-style dumplings that are filled with soup. Stuffed eggplant. The lotus-wrapped rice and pork rolls.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 10:43 AM
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I want Shar bing -- juicy Mongol-style Taiwan-transplant hamburgerish dumplings.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 10:57 AM
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I want that salt and pepper squid I used to get in Chicago, and long beans, and pork ribs, and banh xeo.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 11:01 AM
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Dumplings filled with soup is intriguing, too.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 11:02 AM
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Kotsko on Blagojovich. In many respects Adam is the perfect Blagojovich commentator.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 11:07 AM
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Luobo gao. Turnip cake.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 11:08 AM
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OT: Victory for the workers at Republic Windows & Doors.

I know Obama is going to piss me off many, many times, but when was the last time we had a president who would say about collective worker action: "I think they're absolutely right."? Truman?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 11:10 AM
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Xiaolongbao, they're called. And if you want one you should go to Shanghai Dumpling King in the outer richmond. They don't really have them east of the Mississippi, IME.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 11:10 AM
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I should go to Shanghai Dumpling King.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 11:14 AM
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I want shark fin soup.

I want a sharkskin suit. Vintage.



Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 11:16 AM
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140: 'On the model of a Scooby Doo villain, the only appropriate thing for the Blagojevich type to say when caught is, "And I would've gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for myself!"'

Beautiful.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 11:19 AM
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145: I wish I had a pencil thin moustache,
The Boston Blackie kind.
A two-tone Ricky Ricardo jacket and
An autographed picture of Andy Devine.


Posted by: Jimmy Buffet | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 11:30 AM
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bob, compared to most people here I'm a slowish reader, so I just wanted to know where I should start, since I'm ot about to read his entire corpus.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 11:32 AM
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131: And I think that levis dropped their custom-made jeans. There was a great online jeans company, but I think that they folded.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 11:36 AM
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I want shark fin soup. Some of those shrimpy steamed dumplings. The Shanghai-style dumplings that are filled with soup. Stuffed eggplant. The lotus-wrapped rice and pork rolls.

In addition to environmental and moral objections to the way it's produced, I've never understood the appeal of shark fin soup other than as a jackassy way of advertising one's wealth and status. It's not a particularly tasty soup, and the texture, while somewhat interesting, isn't something I'd ever crave. The rest of the items in the list are delicious, and worthy of longing, but shark fin soup?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 11:57 AM
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And I think that levis dropped their custom-made jeans.

Hott!


Posted by: Bristol Palin | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 11:58 AM
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The one time I had shark's fin soup, the subtly unique flavor was as good as I could have hoped.

Sharks have levels of urea in their tissues which would be fatal for most creatures. I've been told that for this reason you need to marinate them before cooking.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:07 PM
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the subtly unique flavor was as good as I could have hoped.

Is this praise? I can't tell.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:13 PM
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Yeah, it was worth it. It was like wine-tasting.

Luobo gao is much the same, you really have to be into that kind of food to like it. I've never convinced anyone that it's any good.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:21 PM
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They don't really have them east of the Mississippi, IME.

Never been to New York, then?


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:22 PM
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Dude, I love turnip cakes!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:29 PM
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A friend of mine, based on his restaurant experience, says that turnip cakes are very labor intensive.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:31 PM
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I've been told that for this reason you need to marinate them before cooking.

Or just bury it for a while


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:35 PM
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I take it that turnip cakes are not some variant on potato pancakes or parsnip fritters or what have you. Not that one mightn't love them if they were that, but 'labor intensive' suggests something else.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:37 PM
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Of course, you didn't convince me of that, it was the turnip cakes themselves that did it.

Also, vaguely related, yesterday at the farmstand a woman was asking about what to do with rutabagas and said that her dad apparently loved rutabaga pie. Having never heard of such a pie, we were asking her what the hell was in a rutabage pie besides rutabagas and if said pie was savory or what and eventually we all figured out that she was actually thinking of rhubarb pie. Good times.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:39 PM
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The turnip in turnip cakes is shredded, and shredding lots of turnips is pretty labor intensive if you don't have a food processor.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:40 PM
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156: "Dude, I love" s/b "Actually, I quite like".

My grasp of local customs has gotten rusty.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:42 PM
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They're really more pudding-like, but a firm pudding that can be cut in squares like a cake. "Gao" is not directly translatable.

Mashed rutabagas mixed in with mashed potatos is a nice change of pace. If you want to be really ethnic and honky, mix in sauerkraut too.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:44 PM
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161: True, true. I always thought trying to shred any root vegetable in a food processor was counter-intuitive anyway; how do you keep it from turning to too-wet mush? Those tower-type manual shredders are okay for shredding, if you can protect your knuckles.

I saw the rutabaga pie thing coming!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:47 PM
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If you want to be really ethnic and hounky, mix in sauerkraut too.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:52 PM
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On the honky food tip, this week one of our partner companies sent my team an enormous Pepperidge Farm basket and my current state is best approximated by suggesting one imagine a hobo sitting behind a dumpster with a huge belly, a cheese log cradled in one arm and a bunch of empty summer sausage wrappers littering the pavement around him.

I cannot support the inclusion of a "cranberry mustard," however.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:55 PM
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They're really more pudding-like, but a firm pudding that can be cut in squares like a cake. "Gao" is not directly translatable.

Oh, we're talking about different luobo gao then. The kind I was thinking of are basically shredded turnip bound together maybe with some rice flour or egg or something and then deep fried. They're a relatively common street food.

But I think I know the things you're talking about, and I like those too. After they're cut into little squares they pan fry them and get them kind of brown and crispy on the outside, no? Sort of like a Chinese version of fried polenta?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:56 PM
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Yeah.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:57 PM
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I cannot support the inclusion of a "cranberry mustard," however.

Maybe you can trade it for some cigarettes or a blanket?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 12:58 PM
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I cannot support the inclusion of a "cranberry mustard," however.

Once you're looking at, let's see, a spreadable port wine cheese product, cranberry mustard isn't far behind. Dare to combine.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:02 PM
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Did you ever eat nian gao? It's made from rice flour and the kind I saw most often was formed it into these little cylinders that resembles tubes of plastic. You sliced these into coins and then stir-fried them with vegetables. The heat melted them somewhat so the texture was sort of like eating a plate full of hot savory bubble gum. Good in a comfort food kind of way.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:02 PM
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Here's a good photo.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:04 PM
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I don't smoke anymore, but I bet a pack of smokes would be great currency and obviously it would easily be broken into smaller denominations. Besides, without a lighter it wouldn't do me much good, now would it?

Dare to combine.

These words are pure evil.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:04 PM
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Is that kongxin cai? I only had it a few times, but people highly prize it, and it is recognizably unique.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:07 PM
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Looks like rice noodles, really. I'd eat that.

My sister recommends going to momofuku ssam bar while I'm in nyc to eat beef tendons. The online webbage menu, however, doesn't list prices. I suspect I could get tendons cheaper elsewhere? Is it worth it, whatever it is?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:07 PM
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The question, really, Robust, is whether the cranberry mustard comes in a really cute little jar. I dig those little jars the size of a ping-pong ball, or maybe golf ball. So useful!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:10 PM
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I was disappointed in turnip cakes just the other day, but I think it's because they were labeled "fried." Not that I expected turnip latkes, but nor was I expecting "a firm pudding that can be cut in squares like a cake."

You'd be surprised how long I go between cravings for root vegetable pudding.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:13 PM
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174: It looks like it might be kongxin cai mixed in there. Actually, kongxin cai is one of the few asian vegetables I don't much like at all.

175: The texture is very different from rice noodles. It's really soft and chewy and gummy. You have to chew each piece of it for a while, you can't just slurp it down like one does with noodles.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:15 PM
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The online menu for the noodle joint does reveal, however, that one can purchase a certain "butternut 'porkslap' ale".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:16 PM
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JRoth, only the finer class of person enjoys luobo gao or shark's fin soup. You need not be ashamed of following your nature; what else could you do?

I just realized that I'm a gourmet in Taiwan but not in the US. One difference is that in Taiwan you could get a memorable meal for less than $10. Back in the day, anyway.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:16 PM
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Should've previewed. 167.last is what I expected, and would have no doubt savored.

I'm commenting between calls/emails begging people to either hire me or pay me the money they promised when they hired me. Is entrepreneurship tenable in a Not-So-Great Depression? Tune in* and find out!

* Which reminds me, I never followed up to see if Episode 2 of Architecture School went up on Hulu.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:17 PM
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Is entrepreneurship tenable in a Not-So-Great Depression?

Good question. I'm commenting while waiting for call I don't even want to take, all in the name of self-employment. Hang in there!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:22 PM
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I've heard that riding the rails from city to city looking for work is the way to go, and that certain households are willing to help you out with food if you're starving.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:24 PM
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183: That's why we need to rebuild our railroad infrastructure.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:28 PM
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The new manual for entrepreneurs in the 21st century


Posted by: Cryptec nid | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:30 PM
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184: That's why this depression is going to be so much worse than the last one. Maybe hobos will hitch rides on Hummers.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:31 PM
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Do hipster bakers leave cupcakes on windowsills to cool?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 1:39 PM
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The question, really, Robust, is whether the cranberry mustard comes in a really cute little jar.

Dude, if only! Boring plastic bottle the size of a normal bottle of yellow mustard but in a disturbing shade of mauve.

A friend has made me promise to steal it and bring it to him at New Year's.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 2:02 PM
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Maybe hobos will hitch rides on have started out owning Hummers.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 2:04 PM
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Boring plastic bottle the size of a normal bottle of yellow mustard but in a disturbing shade of mauve.

That is a lot of fucking cranberry mustard.

I would estimate it, in fact, as being a lifetime supply for a fairly large family of people with even minimal culinary standards.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 2:17 PM
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That is a lot of fucking cranberry mustard.

This is making me laugh my head off -- I'm sorry -- but ben's romantic snit in the other thread just makes this perfect.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 2:44 PM
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Alas! Would that even cranberry mustard were willing and able!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 2:47 PM
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"We're gonna need a bigger bottle."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 2:48 PM
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192 clearly shows that this statement is a lie:

That's why I do it, M/lls. Rescuing just one soul from cynicism and restoring it to hope is worth more to me than anything, even the giving and receiving of wild transports of pleasure.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 2:50 PM
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You misunderstand, M/tch. If cranberry mustard were willing and able, then I would be able to deny myself even more.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 2:52 PM
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Perhaps JRoth should accept the bottle of cranberry mustard in lieu of fees owed. A lifetime supply! Think of the savings!


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 3:10 PM
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196: You think you're joking. We're already trading help/labor of various sorts around here for food. Just being mindful, you know. It's fascinating in a way.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 3:15 PM
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197. Do you have a little cardboard sign? Or some other method of conveying to the public your willingness to barter?


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 3:27 PM
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TLL. We've gotten a few bags of fresh broccoli (it's still growing there in the field) in the last week or two, in exchange for giving the farmer a couple of rides back and forth to get his new truck inspected. We'd have done that anyway, but he's got the food there, and he lately asks for this or that favor and says he'll make it worth our while.

Conveying a willingness to barter comes with the community of people (in this case, in connection with the CSA) who behave in that way and spread the word about who has what skills and time and resources available.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 3:40 PM
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198/199

I've found this is largely (sub) cultural. I spent some years in trades etc. and worked in places that probably did 25% or more of total business through barter.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 3:43 PM
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There is a big difference between neighborliness and barter. Soup's is closer, esp. since barter of that kind keeps the tax man at bay.

Come to think of it, I wouldn't be surprised if an enterprising IRS agent is coming up with a taxable barter plan right now.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 3:53 PM
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This was on the local news the other day.

http://www.itex.com/


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 3:56 PM
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Come to think of it, I wouldn't be surprised if an enterprising IRS agent is coming up with a taxable barter plan right now.

I didn't do all that well in tax, but I thought technically the goods you receive for services (in a barter rather than good neighborly way) are indeed treated as taxable income. Not that the IRS is likely to audit you over a bag of broccoli. But 25% of a business?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 4:05 PM
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201.2: We'll be meeting him or her with a pitchfork.

Really, the line is pretty fuzzy. We get a lot done without benefit of receipts.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 4:05 PM
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203. quick google turned up this:

It is a common misconception that the primary benefit of barter is to avoid taxes. In fact, the US Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act, passed in 1982, legislated that barter income be treated as equivalent to cash income and taxed on the same basis.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 4:09 PM
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I'm puzzled as to why this conversation has turned from an increase in neighborly sharing in a time of stressed resources to taxability. Because TLL showed up, yes? Chill out, dude, if you would. I'm just pleased to see people talking more about what they have that they can share, that they're not using, or what they can conserve and pass along that would otherwise have been thrown out.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 4:22 PM
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Far be it from me to promote increased taxation, represented or not. Share to your heart's content, parsimon.

There was an item on the radio about trying to recover more unused food for feeding programs from catered events. Makes sense, but wait until someone gets food poisoning.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 4:27 PM
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Conveying a willingness to barter comes with the community of people (in this case, in connection with the CSA) who behave in that way and spread the word about who has what skills and time and resources available (such as open US Senate seats).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 4:38 PM
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But 25% of a business?

Evaluating this is a bit tricky, after all we're not talking about retail swaps. If things are primarily labor and consumables, then while there often is a book value to things, it's pretty easy to go off book, and even entirely off records. The smaller a place is, and the more removed from retail level, the more likely this is, I think.

It's wrong to think of it fundamentally as a tax dodge. Without it a lot of this just wouldn't get done at all. And certainly the exchanges get done even if billed out at full value.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 4:44 PM
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207: We have about a 25% wastage rate overall, iirc. Making any sort of serious dent in that would probably require a way to remove or transfer liability for discards.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 4:51 PM
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Making any sort of serious dent in that would probably require a way to remove or transfer liability for discards.

That would be lovely. When people are struggling for food and shelter, the notion that others are throwing away building materials and surplus food -- and this in their very vicinity -- is ridiculous.

It does mean that my back yard is turning into a bit of a ... thing. Got a wood stove back there -- anybody need one?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 5:07 PM
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require a way to remove or transfer liability for discards.

Gift horses mouths, and all that. Quality control is key, lest trash be included.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-11-08 5:11 PM
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