Re: I sense there may be an omission in your knowledge of cultural trinkets.

1

Shaming? What shaming? I thought it was just advice! "Oh, if you want to get THIS like THIS, just try sitting like THIS."

Not that it ever worked.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:06 AM
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No, but I learned "This is the Church and this is the steeple ..."


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:08 AM
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Not that it ever worked.

Must have worked at least once. You've got the exemption to show for it, right?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:11 AM
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I should not have tried this finger play while my office door was open.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:14 AM
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while my office door was open

Is that a euphemism?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:14 AM
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5:
Bonus points if you can show that with your fingers.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:16 AM
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It combines all the dexterity of Hammer's 2 Legit 2 Quit with the slut-shaming of a purity ball, all set to a catchy beat. Now you know.

Never heard it before in my life. Wow, that's just weird.

Speaking of whichness, I had a really cute blonde sit across from me one night in a meeting (no table), tight jeans, with legs spread real wide. Like knees up around shoulders wide at several points, all pointed at me.

Sadly, it was not the sort of meeting for picking people up, so I was only fairly sure afterwards what the non-verbal communicating meant.

max
['Do your knees hurt or something?']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:18 AM
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Must have worked at least once. You've got the exemption to show for it, right?

Every other year, I do.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:20 AM
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You know, Max, I used to do that kind of shit all of time, with absolutely no communication intended. At all. I was a virginal hippy with a 180-degree turnout who spent half her life in a leotard and tights surrounded by women. I'm just saying that there are any number of reasons people might sit in unorthodox ways.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:23 AM
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Like knees up around shoulders wide

But she could have pulled that off without reclining the seat?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:23 AM
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I remember this. Although my memory is that the "good girls" one was the fingers crossed, and then there was a "bad girls sit like THIS" with the fingers next to each other, then the splayed fingers part.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:23 AM
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You know, Max, I used to do that kind of shit all of time, with absolutely no communication intended. At all. I was a virginal hippy with a 180-degree turnout who spent half her life in a leotard and tights surrounded by women. I'm just saying that there are any number of reasons people might sit in unorthodox ways.

That defense never works in court. "Your honor, my client, max, was rubbing himself because he was cold. And he was licking his lips because they were dry. He just happened to be at the elementary school."


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:26 AM
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Do you sit differently when visiting the gynecologist on the plan as opposed to when visiting one at her office? I expect it's pretty crowded if it's in coach, too. I hope you paid for the extra leg room.


Posted by: matt (not the famous one) | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:29 AM
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9: Mmm. Wearing pants, I certainly slouch with my legs apart sometimes, particularly in meetings where there are men sitting that way; I hate being the only one in the room with prissy posture.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:29 AM
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Once I found the lyrics to a singalong song in my mother's stuff with approximately that message and level of sophistication, though not as explicit with the thumb and everything. It was from WWII when my mom was about 25 and an engaged college grad working in a war plant. So in the fifty or so years between 1943 and 1993 or so, sexual sophistication slid down to an age group 10-12 years younger, or about a year every 4 years. So by now, the lewd games must begin at about age 10 now, and in 2048 children will be born sophisticated.

I am assuming that Heebie is 29. And rounding A BUNCH.

Science, forks.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:30 AM
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Folks. Cows.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:30 AM
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I'm not sure it is much better when men do it.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:30 AM
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9: Were you wearing Birkenstocks?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:32 AM
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I remember the finger drama as teo. And that was circa 1969. (No lie).


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:34 AM
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12: Hey, I really was clumsy and dropped my pen or pencil on the floor a lot in junior high school.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:40 AM
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I think at that point in my life I was wearing converse or Doc Martins most days. (With ballet tights, jean cut-offs, and my dad's flannel shirts---1990s, baby!)


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:40 AM
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So by now, the lewd games must begin at about age 10 now

They damn well better not.

Wearing pants, I certainly slouch with my legs apart sometimes, particularly in meetings where there are men sitting that way; I hate being the only one in the room with prissy posture

I have a habit of sitting [whatever the non-offensive term for 'Indian-style' is] of half I-s (one foot on the floor, the other up against my thigh). It's usually about halfway through a meeting when I realize I'm doing this and start to worry that it's dreadfully unprofessional.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:42 AM
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The variation I remember was not with the thumb between the two fingers, but just the single extended middle finger.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:43 AM
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I'm not sure it is much better when men do it.

Indeed, if they are wearing shorts it is much, much worse.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:43 AM
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I was told that if I had to cross my legs, in should be not be in the womanish manner, but like this. This was marginally acceptable in crowded scenarios where crossing in the proper way would take up too much lateral space.

I still remember seeing Monty Python episodes where they sat with legs crossed in the "good girls sit like this" posture, and I wondered if they were all gay or what. And then decided that that was how they did it in Britain. And then decided that in fact, that was not unusual in the US either, and who were the people who told me not to sit like that anyway? But it still feels odd.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:46 AM
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Hm, those are lewd shoes. You were driving guys crazy, JM. WIth Birkenstocks they would have realized it was just some hippy shit.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:47 AM
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25: Oh yes, definitely a huge part of the "socialization by obnoxious, insecure, ignorant but big and aggressive guys" routine in my '60s childhood and adolesence.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:50 AM
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and who were the people who told me not to sit like that anyway?

clueless wankers?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:59 AM
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20: From your use of the past tense here, I'm guessing they've taken appropriate steps to make sure you no longer hang out in junior highs.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:59 AM
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So, the index finger is the "second finger?" I've always heard it as the first finger...thumbs not counting as fingers.


Posted by: Counterfly | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 10:04 AM
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For most people there's no third finger. Thumb, first/index/fore finger, middle/second finger, fourth finger, fifth finger / pinky.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 10:07 AM
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29: They're called "middle schools" now, ... sheesh.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 10:08 AM
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My memory is the same as 23: So it was a bonus, b/c you got to flick someone off as well.

And good lord, how dreadfully horrible for an elementary-school joke.

Crossing my legs has never been comfortably for me, I don't know why. I used to try to do it while sitting in church b/c that's what all the other proper young ladies did. But I hated it. I usually sit with legs fairly wide apart, or often knees slightly apart with legs crossed at the ankles.

There was a sorority at my college that had a rule about smoking. You were not to smoke while wearing your sorority letters, and if you weren't wearing your sorority letters and did smoke, you had to do so sitting down with your legs crossed.

Because nothing says slattern like a standing woman!


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 10:30 AM
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My mother told my sisters that if you're on a date and the guy starts getting forward, just light up a cigarette and keep it between you and him.

When she was about 75, my sisters found out that Mom had been the bad girl of her family. Badness is very relative, however.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 10:34 AM
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and who were the people who told me not to sit like that anyway?

Sifu Tweety, probably.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 10:41 AM
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Because nothing says slattern like a standing woman!

I thought it was smoking while walking that was taboo for nice young ladies.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 10:53 AM
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The version we had went "Girls who sit like THIS are normal, girls who sit like THIS are tight, girls who sit like THIS get THIS like THIS." Normal was fingerlegs together, tight was fingerlegs crossed.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 10:59 AM
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Oh, and also with Spike's variation featuring the middle finger.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 11:02 AM
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You can sit with your toes in your ears for all I care.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 11:06 AM
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And that was circa 1969. (No lie).

Soixante Neuf: L'année erotique!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 11:10 AM
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"I still remember seeing Monty Python episodes where they sat with legs crossed in the "good girls sit like this" posture, and I wondered if they were all gay or what. And then decided that that was how they did it in Britain."

It's pretty much essential on the Tube, where there isn't enough room to do the "proper" men's posture, and I find my legs get fidgety if they're just parallel. I'm conscious that on some level it's not the done thing, but frankly I couldn't give a fuck.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 11:40 AM
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I was always told that men physically could not cross their legs, at least not without extreme pain, unless they had unusually small genitals. This made me quite self-conscious until I eventually realized it was bullshit. It's weird, though--it wasn't one or two people who told me that, it seemed to be some sort of common knowledge.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 11:45 AM
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I was browbeaten in my jr high days into sitting cross legged in the manly, not girlish way. I still have hang ups about it. Which is bad, because now that I lack the flexibility of my youth, sitting cross legged in the manly way is pretty darned uncomfortable.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 11:48 AM
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42: That's incredibly funny. I mean, guys sit like that on the subway all the time, as if their massive genitalia made it impossible for them to take up less than two seats, but people actually explicitly said that? That's so wonderfully Emperor's New Clothesy: "Hey, that's bullshit, I can cross my legs just fine." "Shut up, needledick."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 11:49 AM
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44: I don't remember an adult ever saying it, but it was common knowledge (openly discussed) in middle school.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 11:53 AM
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Kids pass on all manner of ridiculous sexual misinformation as truth. Until I saw pornography at age (10? 11?) that proved otherwise, I took it as gospel truth that Asian women's hoo-hoos ran side to side, rather than front to back.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:01 PM
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I heard a variation:

Boys sit like this (2nd and 3rd fingers apart)
Girls sit like this (fingers together).
When girls sit like this (fingers apart)
boys get this (2nd and 3rd fingers from other hand come into play, missionary position)
like this (snap).


Posted by: oztk | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:04 PM
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Wow, that is kind of hilariously racist. Who the hell came up with that, man?


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:04 PM
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Not just *kind of* hilariously racist. It wasn't any sort of handicap (as I then understood it), just a regional variation, like having straight hair and epicanthic folds.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:10 PM
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Now that I think about it, because of where I was living when it was disproved for me, I couldn't have been more than 9 years old.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:12 PM
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Dude, you were looking at porn of explicitness sufficient to debunk that at 9? And discussing racial differences in genitalia younger than that? Geez, I was a sheltered child. Or you were raised by wolves.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:16 PM
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I've heard of that bit of hilarious racism, but only as an adult in the indirect "people used to say this racist thing" mode. It definitely sounds like the invention of someone who was both racist and had never encountered either an Asian person or the body part in question, such as the vast majority of American male schoolchildren.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:17 PM
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I once saw a ram with genitals that looked as though they weighed 10-15 pounds. It was a big ram, but not more than about 300 pounds, I don't think.

Domestic rams are the descendants of generations of rams selected specifically for breeding purposes, so maybe they just have better equipment. This guy could not have crossed his legs.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:17 PM
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My "kind of" was modifying "hilarious," not "racist."


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:18 PM
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46: I've heard similar things. It seemed just to be one of those legendary, lurid things people repeated because they heard it, without trying to understand it or being sure whether it was true. Gossip too nasty not to pass on. "The Wonders of the East". (One of the first Anglo-Saxon books by the way. Yes, Orientalism and othering go back that far. We've always already been Orientalizing.)


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:37 PM
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I've heard that exclusively as WWII-era bunk. I believe in The Naked and the Dead, but maybe Summer of '42.

God, I loved Summer of '42. (I read it long before the Mailer.)


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:39 PM
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Dude, you were looking at porn of explicitness sufficient to debunk that at 9?

You find a Penthouse at that age, you look at it. Confusedly, but still.

discussing racial differences in genitalia younger than that?

I don't remember the specific acquisition of that tidbit, but my suspicion is hearing older kids talk and not having a working filter for what to take literally.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:41 PM
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55: In Book 2 of The Histories, Herodotos says that Egyptian women pee standing up and Egyptian men pee sitting down. Also their river runs the wrong way! It's the Bizarro Universe! Damn river.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:42 PM
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51: This is hardly surprising, is it?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:43 PM
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Any Egyptians in the house?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:43 PM
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I've read that Egypt's myths are all different because it almost never rains there (1" / year in Cairo), so water is strictly terrestrial and riverine, and rain is a sort of anomaly.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:46 PM
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hearing older kids talk and not having a working filter for what to take literally.

Come to think of it, God alone knows what my kids have picked up at taekwondo class from the older kids.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:49 PM
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60: m. leblanc, IIRC.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:49 PM
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what my kids have picked up at taekwondo class from the older kids.

"Girl bloggers have vaginas that run side to side, rather than front to back, and a third breast in the middle of their back they keep taped down until they slow dance. Boy bloggers can't cross their arms because of their enormous genitalia. And lawyers eat their children when they reach puberty."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 12:52 PM
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Now there's wikipedia and no kid has to wonder about anything. (It's where my kid first saw a penis.) Not to mention Sims.


Posted by: delagar | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 1:01 PM
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61: Egypt has very unusual geography compared to the rest of the Mediterranean and Near East, and its culture developed in an accordingly distinctive way.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 1:08 PM
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61: When we visited Egypt three years ago, it was raining when we got off the plane. Something of a WTF moment.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 1:10 PM
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66: This is what Herodotos says: opposite-acting river = opposite-acting people.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 1:19 PM
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How could the lawyer have children without having pubesced?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 1:19 PM
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You have so much to learn about lawyers, Ben.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 1:22 PM
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66: Yes, it is. I particularly like to compare its geographical factors with Mesopotamia.

Egypt: Nice river and valley, watered with relatively gentle seasonal floods by some of the most predictable rains in the world (despite Joseph and the dream) falling at distant remove on tropical highlands. A nice neat Upper/lower valley world buffered symmetrically on the east and west by the desert. Relatively protected (OK. Hyksos, Sea people and the like, but everyone who beat them basically became them.)

Mesopotamia: Two total bastard rivers prone to violent floods, watered from unpredictable rains and snows from temperate highlands. Desert on the one side, mountains on the other. Every time you turn around some new tribe of Central Asian badasses coming over the hill to kick your ass (Mongols just revived an old tradition from a longer remove.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 1:48 PM
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They say the Nile used to run from East to West.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 1:57 PM
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68. That reminds me that I am overdue for my standing appointment with the Father of Lies.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 1:58 PM
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Pretty sure that was the Yangtze.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 1:59 PM
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See what?


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:00 PM
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During some periods the Nile ran upstream, Heebie, because of the harmonic convergence.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:13 PM
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LB:

Let me know if you want my son to give the Talk to your kids. For some reason, Di won't let him give the Talk to Rory.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:13 PM
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76: The poor salmon must have been so confused.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:17 PM
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Isn't it better to learn these things from the gutter? Parents tend to make it seem less exciting and fun.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:17 PM
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At best salmon aren't really very clear-headed.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:18 PM
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77: For his protection, will. For his protection.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:20 PM
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Isn't it better to learn these things from the gutter? Parents tend to make it seem less exciting and fun.

At the same time, I was in my thirties before I learned anything useful from the gutter, though. There has to be a way to ensure your child adequate information without the added "my mom said" ick factor.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:23 PM
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Well, I gave them the Talk (basic version) when Sally asked a couple years back. Newt was also listening, and redelivered the Talk to a kid downstairs, whose mother informed me of the fact, leaving me inquiring "Did he get it mostly right?"

I am sort of in the market for a nice hippie crunchy book at a ten-year-old level or so for them, given that there's a limit to how much information I'm going to pre-emptively dump on them verbally. Is there an "Our Bodies, Our Pre-pubescent But Curious Selves" type book that anyone can recommend?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:28 PM
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Speaking of weird finger things, M/tch in the other thread reminded me of the Hertz Donut. At at one particular all male school (now coed, btw) that I attended we played this game where one tried to get another to observe a circled thumb and forefinger ("ok" sign) held below the waist. Should this occur, observer would receive a punch from the observed. Local, regional or what?


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:29 PM
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83: My parents bought us a used World Book Encyclopedia set when I was a kid. I pretty much figured it all out from there. There were even diagrams.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:31 PM
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82
There has to be a way to ensure your child adequate information without the added "my mom said" ick factor.

Moms swap kids. Simple. You educate PK, BPhD. educates Sally and Newt, and LB educates Rory.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:31 PM
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lawyers eat their children when they reach puberty

How'd they have kids before they reached puberty?


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:32 PM
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given that there's a limit to how much information I'm going to pre-emptively dump on them verbally

See, I would have thought I thought the same way, too. But more than once something's come up on TV and I'll start offering Rory an explanation, and she'll roll her eyes and say, "I know, you already explained that."


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:34 PM
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Local, regional or what?

Global. Don't you best your rival if you manage to stick your finger through the hole before they take it away?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:34 PM
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Global. Don't you best your rival if you manage to stick your finger through the hole before they take it away?

Exactly. The only true defense.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:35 PM
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89: That's how bad girls do it.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:36 PM
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||

Goddamnit, two students asked me for recommendations to the same program, so I can't use my standard recommendation template for both of them.

|>


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:37 PM
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87 pwned.

Are there any porno kids' books? The mechanical details without the excitement isn't very useful. You could also teach the 12-13 year olds about proper flirting, seduction, foreplay, etc. But not the smoking after sex part, obvs.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:39 PM
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92: I think they sell "Recommendation Mad Libs" at the bookstore.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:39 PM
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Hey, TLL, did you go to school in LA? I remember that game also being played at a now coed, then all boys school.

Unbelievably, but truthfully, at the same all-male school we played a game called "Jew," in which 5-6 boys would start at a line. One person would toss out a penny and then the "Jew" would have to run the penny back to the line without being tackled/beaten up by everyone else. The name of the game was all the more remarkable in that about 50% of the school was Jewish.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:40 PM
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94 reminds me that some here might find this amusing.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:40 PM
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88: Oh, globally there's absolutely no limit to what I'll drone on about -- I am roundly mocked for my constant explanations of why the sky is blue and the sun rises. On sex specifically, though, there are topics that I'm not likely to bring up without prompting, and that I'd expect the kids to be embarrassed about asking about. Hence, reference books.

(Saturday morning cartoons last week had a nice PSA on not using 'gay' as an epithet (I actually missed it, but walked in on the kids talking about.) It was funny seeing a PSA having its intended effect: "Huh, I guess that would sound obnoxious to [Dan] and [Joe], our downstairs neighbors. I suppose we shouldn't say that, then.")


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:41 PM
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"Dad, they already told us that. What do you think schools are for?"

One of his HS friends' mothers was the banana lady for their school.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:41 PM
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Sorry Robert. Saint Ignatius, San Francisco.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:42 PM
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This book was strategically left out on a coffee table for me to find when I was like 8. He has also written a companion volume, What's Happening to Me? Good Christ -- it's Peter Mayle? That Peter Mayle? Huh.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:43 PM
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32: In Unitarian Sex Class, we used a book called Changing Bodies, Changing Lives. It was pretty darn thorough. Ten might be a little on the young side for that one. I think I got it when I was 12.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:45 PM
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32 s/b 92


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:46 PM
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The mechanical details without the excitement isn't very useful.

Well, exactly. I understood the mechanics well before puberty. I'm still trying to figure the rest out.

Oh, globally there's absolutely no limit to what I'll drone on about... On sex specifically, though, there are topics that I'm not likely to bring up without prompting.

Yeah, I actually meant about sex specifically. (A) We clearly watch some inappropriate TV, and (B) I'm an incredibly annoying mom.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:46 PM
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95: As a youth, I attended a church that was at the time mostly solidly middle class folk, but there were a significant number of quite wealthy families as well. On Youth Group trips a group of us non-wealthy kids formed what we called The Economy Club, spending as little as possible on anything, scrounging food off others' plates, etc. as a mark of pride in front of the Richies. We'd have "training" where a penny was thrown into the deep end of the pool and we'd all dive in and try to be the first to retrieve it, and other similar games involving penny retrieval.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:46 PM
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92 s/be 83. I'm on crack!


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:47 PM
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100: Wow -- I didn't know that either. Now we know how he afforded that place in Provence.


Posted by: Klug | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:48 PM
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spending as little as possible on anything, scrounging food off others' plates, etc

Good training for the next couple of years.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:49 PM
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In Unitarian Sex Class,

About Your Sexuality! I believe I've written somewhere about the unusually embarrassing nature of my AYS class.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:49 PM
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Not that kind of embarrassing, perv.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:49 PM
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102: 32 s/b 12


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:50 PM
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I lied in the anonymous AYS survey about sexual experience.


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:51 PM
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100: "a tremendous big lovely shiver" that is a little like a good sneeze.

Indeed!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:51 PM
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I believe I've written somewhere about the unusually embarrassing nature of my AYS class.

Heebie will now demonstrate the proper technique for a hand job. Thank you, Heebie.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:52 PM
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100: Huh. I think I learned the facts of life from that book accidentally in kindergarten; I was left in a teacher's office, and picked it off a shelf, and I wasn't supposed to be literate yet. There was a bit of a kerfuffle with the teacher getting preemptively huffy with my mother, in the assumption that Mom would be annoyed at the fact that I'd acquired new information on the subject.

Might not be the same book, but looks like it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:53 PM
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I think AYS has since been redubbed OWL - Our Whole Lives. I don't know if they still show gay porn in it though. Probably.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:55 PM
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LB, this book, naturally.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:55 PM
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Although, I have to say, gay porn is less titillating when its a film strip.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:57 PM
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one tried to get another to observe a circled thumb and forefinger ("ok" sign) held below the waist. Should this occur, observer would receive a punch from the observed. Local, regional or what?

I played that game for a couple years with Nic and JP, here in Sacramento four or five years ago.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 2:58 PM
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Hmm, Judd Gregg withdrew himself from the Commerce Secretary seat.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:01 PM
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Also, I remember the rhyme in the post as Heebie-Geebie mostly as she describes it. I think I learned the variant with "gets THIS" as the bird, which could be turned into the snap to show how fast she gets it.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:01 PM
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I played that game for a couple years with Nic and JP, here in Sacramento four or five years ago.

I play it online with all of you, constantly. I can tell that you all peek. Boy are you getting punched at the next meet-up.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:02 PM
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I learned from "The Science Book" by Sara Stein, who apparently wrote entire books just about that sort of thing, although it took up only one chapter in "The Science Book" in between the parts about turning celery blue and making ginger beer.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:03 PM
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122: While I've never met Ms. Stein, I'm two degrees of separation from her in an unfortunately non-anonymizing way. She also wrote a couple of excellent gardening books.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:05 PM
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Judd Gregg withdrew himself from the Commerce Secretary seat

The monkey business about the Census, I reckon.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:06 PM
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We clearly watch some inappropriate TV
my niece picks up new words watching tv, the other day she asked my sister what is 'prestuplenie' (crime in Russian)
i was like you watch inappropriate TV!
for my niece is 2 yo, my sister said she just told her that it's crime and didn't explain what's crime and the baby didn't ask further as if she understood the translated word


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:06 PM
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Oh, I didn't know she'd died. Huh.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:06 PM
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119: Weird. Gregg is claiming he's out over disagreements about the stimulus package. Shouldn't he have figured that out before accepting the gig?


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:07 PM
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122: Huh. That sounds like a pretty awesome book. Guess I know what to get Rory for her birthday!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:09 PM
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last two days i feels some strange pain in my sternum as if i'm having angina, a bit young for that, too many donuts and coffee in the mornings perhaps
should start exercise


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:15 PM
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-s


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:16 PM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:19 PM
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129 - I regularly get minor pain in the chest that I believe comes from pinching of a nerve. I have had it since about 10 years old.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:20 PM
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i was kinda enjoying it, but after two days it's kinda boring, maybe i'll take some painkillers


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:23 PM
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128: But how will it look as a cake?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:24 PM
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128 to 116.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:25 PM
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134: The sex talk?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:26 PM
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ing


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:26 PM
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ing?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:28 PM
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136: No, the sex don't talk.

Just kind of moans.

Occasionally some hooting and hollering.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:28 PM
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134, 136: Now, you want to make sure the fondant covers the whole thing...


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:29 PM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 3:33 PM
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136: 134: The sex talk?

I was thinking the chest pain. (Maybe Red Velvet?)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 4:06 PM
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142: Hmm. I do have a boxed Red Velvet mix in the Pantry...


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 4:09 PM
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Did you just say you've got a red velvet box in your panties?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 4:11 PM
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We didn't do it with the thumb-between-index-and-ring fingers gesture. It was the straight up middle finger for us.

And although I had totally forgotten about that little doggerel, as soon as I read it I was totally doing the fingerplay. I totally blame the patriarchy.


Posted by: Bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 4:12 PM
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Well, you see Rory, the icing is like a ....


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 4:12 PM
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144: Jesus, don't you have students to fail or cats to manipulate or something?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 4:14 PM
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My parents gave me the book in 100 when I was about 7 and started asking about related stuff. It answered all my questions.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 4:14 PM
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147: Perhaps I misheard.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 4:20 PM
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My parents gave me the book in 100 when I was about 7

Teo's vastly older than I'd imagined.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 4:22 PM
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One item I recall is my father taking me to a lame evening movie and presentation at the YMCA—somewhat late in the "process". Of course this was the same big old decrepit YMCA where on many Saturdays in previous years I had been sent to swim naked with dozens of other young boys in front of various creepy older "instructors". On the way home I felt like saying, "Where was the filmstrip to teach me how to deal with that, Dad? Huh, huh?"


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 4:23 PM
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I remember the Peter Mayle books fondly. My intention is just to have The Guide to Getting it On, Our Bodies Ourselves, The Good Vibrations Guide to Sex, etc on the shelves for him to discover. Though probably I'll point out to him thag he cam consult them (or Scarletteen) for questions he'd rather not ask me or his papa. When I was 10 or so, I used to sneak looks at my piano teacher's Joy of Sex during my sister's lesson.


Posted by: Bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 4:26 PM
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Teo's vastly older than I'd imagined.

It wasn't new, obviously. At least I'm pretty sure it was that book.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 4:30 PM
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Is there an "Our Bodies, Our Pre-pubescent But Curious Selves" type book that anyone can recommend?

Try It's Perfectly Normal.

In my experience there are good books about the mechanics, and bad books about the mechanics. (Of both puberty and reproduction -- in fact, of the latter, I rather like the Usborne one, which is quite matter-of-fact and which I have given to children as young as 2.)

But that's the mechanics. As far as the emotions, there are a few truly bad, euphemistic, religious-in-the-worst-possible-way books -- and no good ones. I honestly wonder whether American society is emotionally comfortable itself enough to produce one.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 6:28 PM
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If you were 7 in 100, you'd be almost two thousand years old.

</Standpipe's blog>

It was weak. I apologize.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 6:33 PM
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154: How about I write it?

"You're coming to the age when young men and women are especially susceptible to the formation of delusional attachments which end up ruing their lives".

Oh, wait. That's Father Mohm's weekly sermon. Forget I said anything.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 7:23 PM
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But how will it look as a cake?

Anyone else remember that episode of Blossom in which she gets her period and then fantasizes about having a mom who would help her through puberty? The mom makes her a cake decorated with an icing diagram of the uterus and ovaries.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 7:30 PM
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Blossom is one of those shows whose existence I remember only when someone mentions them. Like that other show about teenagers and you know, the sitcom that played on weekday evenings? Yeah, that show.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 7:39 PM
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The one where the daughter was half alien?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 7:41 PM
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The one where the daughter was a robot who dressed like a French maid?


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 7:46 PM
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Thinking back, it's kind of incredible that Small Wonder ever made it on the air. It's still more incredible that I watched so much of it.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 7:50 PM
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The one where the maid was a dead ghost flapper from the 20s?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 7:51 PM
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a robot who dressed like a French maid

The Jetsons?


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 7:51 PM
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I probably have Blossom on the brain because I read an interview with Mayim Bialik somewhere recently.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 7:53 PM
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The good thing about Small Wonder was, you know how sometimes you watch a family sitcom and none of the characters look like they could possibly come from the same gene pool? These people were definitely related. In fact, the mom and dad looked like sister and brother, and Jamie was the fruit of their incestuous coupling. They were the three doughiest people I've ever seen.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 7:54 PM
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And her best friend Six?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 7:54 PM
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And her cute older brother!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 7:55 PM
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Small Wonder

I'm sure I watched that show. But I can't remember a single thing about it. Unlike, say, The Hogan Family, which I assume is pretty obscure to people these days.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 7:57 PM
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And dweeby even older brother who had a sordid past but was now straight and narrow!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 7:57 PM
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Unlike, say, The Hogan Family, which I assume is pretty obscure to people these days.

Oh, Valerie's Family?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 7:58 PM
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Wikipedia tells me that Phylicia Rashad played Blossom's mother (the cake-baking one) in that episode.

I don't remember anything about Small Wonder either, but I do remember The Hogan Family.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 8:00 PM
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Maybe the ones that most closely approximated normal families turn out to be the more memorable. On the other hand, Punky Brewster.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 8:05 PM
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If this conversation has taught us anything, it is that there is no "the" other hand.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 8:08 PM
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Also, my grandmother liked to point out that Sandy Duncan had a glass eye.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 8:08 PM
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Balky always wanted a real American family, and now he lives with his cousin! HI COUSIN!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 8:08 PM
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Well, I do have a pretty good memory of Alf. Though perhaps not as good as that of Mr. Belvedere.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 8:08 PM
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Oh god, I just remembered what Small Wonder was. That creepy girl robot!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 8:11 PM
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Maybe someone has already said this, but I always thought these hand gestures meant that if you sat with your legs apart, you would grow a penis, not have sexual intercourse with a man.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 8:12 PM
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I always thought Mr. Belvedere didn't get enough credit for being a good show. I don't think my friends watched it.

It was very weird to see the guy who played Balki in roles where he had a normal American accent. Same with watching Monk the first few times. Didn't that guy used to drive a cab in Nantucket?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 8:16 PM
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If you were 7 in 100, you'd be almost two thousand years old.

I figured that might have been what you meant but thought it beneath you.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 8:17 PM
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164: I have wondered if she was supposed to have been named after Blossom Dearie, since her dad, if I recall correctly, was a jazz musician.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 8:22 PM
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thought it beneath you

I'm just touched to know somebody believes such jokes exist.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 8:27 PM
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144: Jesus, don't you have students to fail or cats to manipulate or something?

Please don't take the lord's name in vain on Unfogged. Not because I care if god smites you, but because it makes me think you're addressing Jesus McQueen.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 8:55 PM
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Valerie's Family and The Hogan Family were both cheap knockoffs designed to sully the immortal reputation of Valerie Harper. It's Valerie or nothing! Sandy Duncan can just fuck off.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:03 PM
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The last dozen or so comments make me realize (a) that I watched alot of tv in my youth and (b) I've lost alot of memory in my old age. I know I watched all of those shows, but about all I remember was thinking the dad on the Hogan Family was vaguely attractive, as did Balky Bartakamus and both Punky Brewster and Blossom seemed to have more interesting lives than I did.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:06 PM
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I've had an 80s or early 90s sitcom theme song stuck in my head for a while now, but I don't know which one. (It has "standing tall" in the lyrics; I think this is Perfect Strangers.

Also, in a bookstore last weekend I heard a song that contained a line like "infrastructure's always crumbling" or something like that. I have no idea what song it was, but I assume it was anti-stimulus.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:09 PM
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Sandy Duncan can just fuck off.

Yeah! And take her Triscuits with her!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:09 PM
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187: "I hate guilt"? Well I fucking hate you, Sandy.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:11 PM
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185: this'll help.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:11 PM
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I've had an 80s or early 90s sitcom theme song stuck in my head for a while now, but I don't know which one.

I get the Down To Earth theme stuck in my head from time to time, and I barely remember anything about the show.

But she was struck down by a trolley, golly!
Said goodbye in nineteen twenty and two! (Toodle-oo, toodle-oo)
Ethel in heaven awaited patiently
To earn her wings and be
An angel fancy free!
Sixty years later, the opportunity...came true! (Twenty-three skiddoo!)
Back down to earth to teach the Prestons lessons!
Someone, someone, Dwayne and J.J. too!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:14 PM
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You know, I totally never realized Kate & Allie were lesbians.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:16 PM
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Holy crap, I didn't make the whole thing up at all! It's just like I remember.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:18 PM
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Holy shit, Burt Reynolds was the dad on Out Of This World? What the hell, Burt? That's a big step down from Cannonball Run.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:22 PM
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OH HE WAS THE VOICE IN THE JEWEL HAH SHIT NEVER MIND.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:22 PM
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STOP STEALING MY SIGNATURE STYLE FOR SUCH DUMB COMMENTS.


Posted by: OPINIONATED GRANDMA | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:24 PM
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ALSO SCOTT BAIO DIRECTED


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:25 PM
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OKAY THAT'S WORTHY HE WAS QUITE A LOOKER.


Posted by: OPINIONATED GRANDMA | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:26 PM
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Scott Baio? Didn't he meet his latest squeeze at a cuddle party?


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:26 PM
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That's his baby mama you're talking about, Mary Catherine.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:29 PM
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I'll have you know that Mayim Bialik's hunky older brother went to my high school. On my bus, even.

Other illustrious graduates of my high school include Paula Abdul and Marilyn Monroe.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:31 PM
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159: Your thinking of Out of this World. The protagonist did look a lot like Blossom.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:35 PM
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189 is just enough to make me thing I really, really should remember, but nope, can't access that memory. (There was a touching episode where the dad/inventor realizes how paternally he loves the little wonder, right?)

196, on the other hand was apparently more than enough to get the theme song to Charles in Charge stuck in my head.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:35 PM
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191: Hah, I thought you were referring to Double Trouble whose twin female stars were also named Kate and Allie. That show was kind of awesome. I never saw Kate and Allie.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:38 PM
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Thornton Wilder went to my high school. We were supposed to be impressed by that when they put him in the school hall of fame. (Why did they take so long? Who knows?) I only learned who he was because we were supposed to be impressed by that. Still haven't seen, read, or listened to an audio performance of one of his plays.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:39 PM
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Bah, 201 owned by 193. That'll teach me to skim.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:40 PM
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The hunky older brother on Blossom played a hunky 16 year old for probably two solid decades. That guy never aged.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:57 PM
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Oh no wait, not Joey Lawrence. Who'm I thinking of?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 9:58 PM
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I'm thinking of Blossom's boyfriend, this guy, who played the same 16 year old kid from 1989 to 2002.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 10:00 PM
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208: now I'm not going to be able to look at the link without imagining him pointing his thumbs at himself and going "this guy!"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 10:06 PM
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206-208: Good save. I almost thought less of you for fawning over Joey Lawrence.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 10:13 PM
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Other illustrious graduates of my high school include Paula Abdul and Marilyn Monroe.

Hah. Marilyn Monroe went to my high school before she transferred to your high school, apparently. (She was always mentioned first in lists of famous alumni, just beating out Jeff Bridges.)


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 10:30 PM
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My HS had Goldie Hawn, Ben Stein and Sylvester Stalone. Also Dominique Dawes, who sat next to me in History.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 10:36 PM
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The only illustrious personage who ever attended my HS was Dan Akroyd, but I'm not sure that he even graduated, I think he may have been expelled.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 11:30 PM
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213: he was into some bad stuff. Not like now, where he's just into overpriced cursed vodka.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 02-12-09 11:32 PM
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"Our Bodies, Our Pre-pubescent But Curious Selves" type book that anyone can recommend?

Echoing 101, There's Changing Bodies, Changing Lives
which was put out by the same group that did Our Bodies, Ourselves. I don't know that I can recommend it though. We used it at my all girls school in a group discussion class in the 8th grade.

This may just be my prejudice, though. I was always weirded out by the boy who described getting a hard-on whenever his mother vacuumed.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02-13-09 9:14 AM
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A guy I know went to high school with the Blossom star. She was supposed to go to Harvard, but she deferred too long, and then they wouldn't let her in.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02-13-09 9:24 AM
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Malcolm Forbes Jr. went to my high school. I don't know that that counts as illustrious.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02-13-09 9:33 AM
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I learned "Girls who sit like this are nice [parallel], girls who sit like this think twice [crossed], girls who sit like this [v] get this [thumb between fingers] like this [snap]."

Also, George Hamilton went to school on my high school's campus, but never graduated, and Jimmy Buffett's daughter went to my high school. She got kicked out for smoking pot on a theater dept. trip, but they eventually let her back in.


Posted by: Jenny Robot | Link to this comment | 02-13-09 11:56 AM
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