Re: I've got flounder-eyed ones, myself.

1

My boobies point forward, but I always liked walleyed ones better. They look more relaxed and nurturing.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 7:51 AM
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Titties! Hooray!

Just thought we ought to get that out of the way. Doing my part for the good of the collective.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 7:54 AM
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Mine too -- I think it's a ribcage/chest-cavity size thing. If you've got a big, broad chest, your tits kind of sit on it facing forward. Average build or slightly built people, on the other hand, are more likely to have tits that sit out to the sides of the chest, because there's not room on the front.

Like everything else, everyone's different.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 7:55 AM
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2: When contemplating the boobies, I sighed and figured Unfogged would enjoy the post.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 7:57 AM
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Sighed with resignation, let's be clear.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 7:58 AM
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Speaking of ribcage/chest size things! I just made an awesome discovery: I am pretty much exactly an industry size X except for my shoulders, which are a WHOPPING 3 inches wider than the standard. This explains everything. Ladies, measure yourselves. It will help so so much in trying to find the correct sizes in your clothing.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 7:59 AM
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3: Yes, I think this is true. Large ribcage also means mine don't touch my stomach, either. Clearly, what breast augmentation is meant to do is reproduce the effects of having a giant barrel ribcage, because it is soooo attractive.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 8:01 AM
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Mine point forward. Must be my big broad manly chest. Laydeez.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 8:03 AM
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6: So, having figured that out.... it explains things, but how does it help? (Having listened to many rants from my SO about being sizes X, Y, and Z in different places and as a result having nothing fit properly.)


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 8:09 AM
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I suppose it means you know what to tell the tailor.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 8:13 AM
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Being armed with exact measurements helps for a couple of reasons. You know where to *start* trying things on; you can allow for the stupid fuckers doing vanity sizing later on. It also helps me not feel like a crazy person when I try on, say, a jacket that should be my size but then fits fuckedupedly around the shoulders. If I want to get a perfectly fit jacket, I should probably get a size up, and then have a tailor bring in the waist and whatnot.

I also advised my sister, who was having ISSUES finding a pair of jeans, that armed with measurements, she could demand assistance from some of those wannabe-helpful customer-service wallahs. It can be seriously demoralizing to have to trial-and-error your way through a stack of jeans.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 8:16 AM
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if people use imeem, it means i-boob in my language, i recalled a lively discussion of the name at my friend's blog


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 8:24 AM
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3,7: Hmm. I have a giant barrel of a chest but my own breasts tend more towards the wall-eye than not. Perhaps once you're past a certain cup size, the effects of having more space there is lost?

(And, since we're talking about clothes sizing, can I say how fucking frustrating it is that anything that fits my waist will definitively NOT fit my rib cage? And that every single fucking button down shirt, from size 6 to 14, gapes open, even if it manages to fit at the waist and shoulders?)


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 8:31 AM
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We talked about the gaping problem a while back -- I've solved it by not wearing button-down shirts much, but I remember Bitch and M. Leblanc both saying that a button-down with a deep V-neck is less likely to gap like that.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 8:35 AM
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13.2: Me too, Parenthetical. The only shop I've found that reliably sells dress shirts that don't gape too much at the chest but fit at the waist is Express. I've found a lot of dress pants I like at the Gap, but their shirts are a disaster. If I buy them to just barely go around my ribs, I'm swimming in the rest of the shirt.

From what I understand, this has to do with what size the designer uses as a pattern for the other sizes. Express seems to use a small size as the pattern for their dress pants (not made for anyone over medium, surely, with the 3-inch rise on the pants), but their jeans and dress shirts seem made with a curvier shape in mind.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 8:36 AM
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14, 15: Yeah, I remember that conversation. I solve it by always wearing a pretty camisole underneath and leaving it unbuttoned a bit, thus pretending that I meant for it to be that way.

I've managed to find a shirt here and a shirt there that works but I can't find a reliable brand; I've tried on the $200 fitted for larger chest women shirts before and even then things don't fit appropriately. Obviously not a big deal in the scheme of things but the conversation reminded me of it!


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 8:46 AM
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Back on the OP, isn't part of what's irritating about fantasy body-images their mix-and-match quality? There's nothing particularly implausible about forward-pointing tits, it's just that they look unlikely on the sort of body-types that are otherwise presented as ideal.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 8:46 AM
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Ladies, this thread is about breasts, not clothes. Try to stay focused.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:01 AM
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18: Here here! Specifically, you should talk about what type of oil you like to rub on your breasts.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:07 AM
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I'd expect boobies to point in the horizontal plane roughly in the direction perpendicular to the tangent to the ribcage at the centroid of the area of attachment. This is the basis of a good exam question for an intro calculus course.

In the vertical plane it's all about gravity, so I can't hazard a guess.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:11 AM
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19: And ideal oil temperature also needs to be considered.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:14 AM
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Ladies, this thread is about breasts, not clothes. Try to stay focused.

Evidently women have trouble staying focused on breasts. No wonder they get all uptight when men focus on their breasts. It's jealousy.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:16 AM
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I'm jealous of the woman from Athens.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:19 AM
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Babies of both gender have no problem focusing on breasts, but only men retain the ability into later life. Blame the patriarchy.


Posted by: W. Breeze | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:20 AM
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Evidently women have trouble staying focused on breasts.

The wall-eyed ones, anyway.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:20 AM
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7: I have a proportionately large ribcage, but just above it, it narrow. They always talk about apple and pear shapes, btu I really think of myself as more liek a cucumber.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:21 AM
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26: I saw a t-shirt in one of those tourist-strip t-shirt shops that classified breasts by their resemblance to various fruits. Cucumber was one of them.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:23 AM
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There's that old joke about the shy man with the wooden eye who decides to ask the wallflower with wall-eyed breasts if she'd like to dance . . .


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:23 AM
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I am somewhat ashamed to admit that I just googled flounder eyes in order to find out what HB's breasts look like.

All this time, we have been focusing on her amazing butt, when her breasts are the unique things.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:24 AM
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29: She used to have one on each side of her torso, but then one of them migrated.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:26 AM
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In looking at sites like this, I'm always puzzled by the cup sizes the women say they are. Now, I know that cup size isn't constant (i.e., the cup of a 34C isn't the same size as the cup of a 38C), but still. The women on that first page who identifies her breasts as a large C seems much larger than the one who identifies as a DD. Take-home lesson: bra sizing is wacky.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:28 AM
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30:
To the surface each night to feed?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:30 AM
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32: No, across the ocean, to find a better life.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:31 AM
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Finding Nemo was originally written about my breasts.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:33 AM
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Did you just describe heebie's belly as an ocean?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:34 AM
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A Bug's Life was originally set in my pants.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:35 AM
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36: But you got treated before you spread your STD, right?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:36 AM
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Titan A.E. was originally set in my pants.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:37 AM
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37: Heebie, it's called a treatment in movie-speak.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:39 AM
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I'm a little worried about "flounder eyed".


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:40 AM
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Good Will Hunting was originally set in a thrift store.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:40 AM
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The movie Spartacus was originally set in George Washington's pantaloons.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:41 AM
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40: You're just trying to get heebie to send you a picture of her breasts, aren't you?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:41 AM
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31: Part of it I'm sure is that boobs are squishy, and some are squishier than others, so many shapes can fit the same cup.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:41 AM
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boobs are squishy

Like bags of sand.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:46 AM
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I've always had somewhat of an ego about my boobs, as they're the only part of my body that I can comfortably say fits a lot of the requirements for looking nice by stupid beauty standards. And yet, I have received exactly two (2) compliments on them, one from a guy who had recently been married to a woman much older than me (so mine were nice for being "young"), and one from a woman who did not like her own. Either I have just not dated anyone into tits or (and this is more likely) I have an inflated ego about how nice my tits are. No, I'm not posting to flickr.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:50 AM
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The last sentence of 46 negates the rest.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:51 AM
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NIce tits, AWB.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:51 AM
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The capital I indicates sincerity.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:52 AM
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46: Picasa then?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:54 AM
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46: My first week in the Peace Corps, I was sitting around with a bunch of other volunteers, and this kind of dippy woman suggested that to get to know each other, we go around in a circle and each of us announce what they thought their best feature was. And then she went on dithering about it, and said that actually, it was kind of a silly thing to do, because everyone's going to say something like "I have nice eyes" because you can't really say "I think I have great tits." I had a hard time keeping myself from saying "But honestly, I do!", just to be difficult.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:57 AM
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12 is important. iBoob!


Toy Story was set in my butt.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:58 AM
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51: Also, no "I have very regular bowels."


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 9:59 AM
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"I think I have great tits."

I could warm them for you.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:00 AM
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I remember in high school that me and my friends sat around one evening discussing which parts we would choose from whom if we were going to make a composite frankenstein-hottie from the four of us. I distinctly recall being very happy that my tits were chosen (inter alia) for the franken-teenager.

It's funny how worried I was about my tits when I was a teenager--freaking out about the stretch marks, oh my god are they sagging? What if they start to sag, if they're not already? I blame fashion magazines. I honestly look back on the things I obsessed over and am seriously baffled. Like, I thought my nose was too wide. Is that race-shame or what?


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:03 AM
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How on earth do you people know whether you have a big ribcage or not? It's hard for me to figure it out, what with the tits permanently attached and everything.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:05 AM
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There's the part of the ribcage that is below the boobs. And there's the band size of your bra.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:07 AM
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I don't know how I escaped the whole teenage-body-shame thing. My mom was always really mean to me about my body, and I certainly couldn't get a date, in part because of my body. But I had been a butt-ugly chunk of a kid, so growing up into a less-butt-ugly not-as-chunk seemed like such a blessing.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:07 AM
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51: "I'm better than other people."


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:09 AM
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And there's the band size of your bra

Yeah, if I actually bothered to do this correctly I would be wearing a 38Z or something instead of my 42whatevers.

I know, I know, get bras that fit, blah blah. That shit is expensive.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:10 AM
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But even buying a cheaper bra in the right size can make a huge difference.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:11 AM
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46: Picasa then?

Photobucket, natch.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:11 AM
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IYKWIM.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:11 AM
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61: But there don't necessarily exist cheaper bras in the difficult-to-find sizes.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:12 AM
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58: I think that's a good point. I was constantly fawned over by adults from birth to age 10 or 11 who cooed over my every feature and told me how wonderful-looking I was until I hit puberty and started to look kinda like crap. I also ran around with a group of very vain, pretty, rich girls who were forever saying stuff like "you really need to do something about your hair..."


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:12 AM
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Have those photos been linked here before? They seem familiar...


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:14 AM
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61, 64: Yup. There are a very limited number of manufacturers, and they're all high-end, who do what I believe to be my correct size based on measurements, which is something like a 38J. IIRC.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:14 AM
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I wish I could use you guys to pick out my clothes for today. I suck at this. I'm moderating a conference panel and then going to a party at a fancy gay club.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:15 AM
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Try on expensive bras at a store to figure out what size you need, and then buy them on eBay. Wacoal bras for under $30, peeps.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:15 AM
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It's partially a matter of what doesn't fit, like Jackm was saying about her shoulders. It's not as clear now, because I've got more bodyfat confusing the issue, but as a skinny 20-something, I was pretty much a size 8 in most things. A structured top that was supposed to come in tightly under the breasts, though (think corsety kind of stuff), wouldn't be able to get anything near that size on at all, and the smallest size I'd be able to wear would be flapping aimlessly around my breasts -- that sort of shaped garment universally seemed to expect that my torso below my breasts and above my waist would be a lot smaller in proportion to everything else than it was.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:16 AM
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69 to 68.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:16 AM
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I wear sports bras almost exclusively, because they stay supportive for a zillion wearings between washings. Regular bras seem to be good for one or two wearings at most.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:18 AM
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58: I escaped teenage body shame by being so badly dressed that what I actually looked like under the pathetic clothes was simply not an issue; that is, I felt so depressed about what I was wearing that it didn't really occur to me to feel bad about my body.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:19 AM
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46 - is this possibly because "Nice tits!" is the thing the archetypical sexist construction worker shouts at passing women?


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:19 AM
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Photobucket, natch.

Photojug?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:19 AM
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72: Do you not wear underwires? (Just out of curiosity.)


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:20 AM
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74: I can see that -- that someone at a level of intimacy where they could appropriately compliment your breasts might stay away from it because it sounds crass.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:20 AM
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This bra actually looks pretty nice and not nearly as frumpy as what you usually see.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:20 AM
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Have those photos been linked here before?

Similar ones have, in any event. Did anybody else click through to the before-and-after vaginoplasty site?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:21 AM
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I was miserably self-conscious about my body from about age 11-15, mostly because I developed early, which I interpreted as being fat.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:21 AM
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I was miserably self-conscious about my body from about age 11-15

Wasn't everybody?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:23 AM
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"you really need to do something about your hair..."

My mom said this exact sentence to me consistently throughout my childhood/adolescence. She may well have had a point, but it didn't exactly do wonders for the self-esteem.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:23 AM
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77 gets it right.

I try not to compliment things people had no control over, anyway. Why should people get an excess of compliments just for being born a certain way?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:23 AM
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76: I do - in fact the only non-sports bras I'd consider are underwires. Basically I like to be VERY very very VERY well supported.

Part of it gets back to the "why I don't like skirts" discussion: I hate skin-on-skin. So if the bra slips at all, and I feel boob-on-stomach, I get very neurotic and unhappy.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:24 AM
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81: Yes, I assumed I embarrassed everybody. But thanks for making me revisit that.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:24 AM
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81: Not everyone. It wasn't until college that I realized my body was defective.


Posted by: Di Kotikmy | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:25 AM
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I hate skin-on-skin

You may find having an infant quite a challenge, then.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:25 AM
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84: Man, pregnancy has got to suck. What have you got left; six-seven weeks?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:25 AM
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88: I am SO ready not to be pregnant, plus generally excited. But I don't know if I'm more so for hating skin-on-skin. Week 35!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:27 AM
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Will you be live-blogging the birth?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:28 AM
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87: I plan on using a dental dam when I nurse.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:28 AM
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91 is great. A good way to keep the baby from gaining unsightly pounds, too.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:29 AM
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How on earth do you people know whether you have a big ribcage or not?

Mine is hugely obvious when you look at me from the side. And then, there was the phenomenon that I hated, from about middle school formal forward, of having all the pretty poufy dresses fit beautifully at my waist and then completely fail to continue to zip up, well below my breasts.

is this possibly because "Nice tits!" is the thing the archetypical sexist construction worker shouts at passing women?

As an early developer of boobs, I learned that I didn't like it very much when people did comment on them, perhaps because they were all in this vein. Not the thing that you want to hear at age 12.

Also, on the topic of the original post, while I was always comfortable with and in fact proud of my breasts in a bra because they fit the media images that heebie points out, it took me a long time to become comfortable with them naked, in large part because of the spreading effect. So I do actually think these sorts of websites have a positive effect; only seeing naked porn women can wreak havoc on your self-image.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:31 AM
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And then, there was the phenomenon that I hated, from about middle school formal forward, of having all the pretty poufy dresses fit beautifully at my waist and then completely fail to continue to zip up, well below my breasts.

Yep, this too.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:33 AM
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Why should people get an excess of compliments just for being born a certain way?

Eh, I think you can take this too far. Particularly when you're in an intimate sexual relationship with someone - even if you have the visual proof that someone is turned on it doesn't hurt to also feel beautiful/desired through words as well. And we all have things on our bodies that we admire (or so I hope) - it's not such a bad thing to compliment them.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:34 AM
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only seeing naked porn women can wreak havoc on your self-image

In the internet age, porn contains a much, much broader spectrum of body types. Kids today don't know how lucky they have it! Why, when I was growing up...


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:35 AM
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95 gets it right. I think a more parsimonious explanation for AWB's situation is that the men she's dated have been (as previously established) aliens.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:39 AM
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Did anybody else click through to the before-and-after vaginoplasty site?

Yeah, that's not the first place I'd think of to do a little trimming--I imagine healing from that is going to hurt like hell.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:40 AM
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91: Sir Kraab has a friend who made up some great lyrics about dental dams, set to the tune of Delta Dawn.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:40 AM
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96: True. It's one of the few good things that I see about amateur porn (mostly, I'm too worried about whether or not the women in them know that they're being filmed, or if they do, if they know it's going to be distributed on the internet).


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:42 AM
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I wish I could use you guys to pick out my clothes for today. I suck at this. I'm moderating a conference panel and then going to a party at a fancy gay club.

Video conference!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:51 AM
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102

Knee-length skirt with tall boots, sweater or jacket over a flashier top.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:54 AM
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100: I share your concern about fully informed consent, but if that's present then amateur porn is IMO a net good thing. I suspect that there are more than enough exhibitionists out there to completely sink the commercial porn industry, which would be an overall improvement IMO.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:55 AM
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103: Yes, there are certainly any number of people willing to do it, and I don't mean to take away from the women and men who are enthusiastically participating and posting. But as is, it seems impossible to evaluate fully informed consent in the present distribution system. Maybe we should have an independent amateur porn inspection committee? Would you like to be a member?


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:59 AM
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No, I'm not posting to flickr.

Canonically, you just email the picture to me.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:00 AM
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Doesn't seem that hard (pardon the pun): make certain that both parties have written on themselves, visibly and legibly, authorization for the film.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:00 AM
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By the way, the lurkers support my breasts in email.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:01 AM
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the other day my sister told me that she saw a tv program, Japanese, where people were saying that if one has kinda unremarkable persona, one better to dress flashier, use nice accessories etc b/c just displaying that you pay attention to self is kinda attractive and if one has animated face or something to draw people's attention or just regularly attractive ( /western looking, in Japanese), one's better to dress without any excesses


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:02 AM
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My parents were generally pretty good about the whole body-image thing, but I still get the sense that my mother has always been vaguely disappointed by my looks, expressed in the form of very, very effusive praise whenever I wear makeup or have a good hair day (about once every three years.)

On the topic of clothes, given that every woman here cannot find tops that fit easily, one would think the designers would figure out that many women have boobs. I remember shopping for prom dresses and being miserable because by the time I found a gown that would zip all the way up, I was at least four sizes above my normal size. So frustrating.



Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:02 AM
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77, 95, et al: I've complimented women on their breasts in those situations; the best response I've gotten is "Thanks, I grew them myself." Which seems like a pretty good all-purpose reply for the purpose of being complimented on something that's generally out of your control.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:02 AM
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I believe that compliments about tits are classified as harrassment often enough that no one doea it any more, except for construction workers, truckdrivers, and street corner loafers. The standard protocol is "Hey lady! Nice ones! Wanna fuck?"

I once quizzed people about the protocol for complimenting someone on a successful boob job, and I concluded that the thing to say was "That sweater really looks fantastic on you today".

During my researches one of my friends told me about a neighborhood picnic where everyone skirted around the subject until the proud new owner took off her bl;ouse and said something like "There they are, guys!"


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:02 AM
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the proud new owner took off her bl;ouse and said something like "There they are, guys!"

After the surgery, she referred to her girls as "guys"? Odd.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:05 AM
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111.1 to to 74, 46.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:06 AM
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104.last - low hanging fruit there with the member thing. Not taking it 'cos I'm classy like that.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:08 AM
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but I still get the sense that my mother has always been vaguely disappointed by my looks, expressed in the form of very, very effusive praise whenever I wear makeup or have a good hair day (about once every three years.)

I saw my evil grandmother at a wedding once, I hadn't seen her for a couple of years, and she managed to hit me with the best unpleasant compliment I've ever heard "You look so nice; not with your hair the way it always was and those clothes you used to wear. [turning immediately to my mother] And you: what happened? At least you always used to have nice skin." Man, she was a piece of work.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:08 AM
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Mean New York Granny, standing in a triangle with me and my mom, when I'm about 7. Looks me up and down and says to my mom, "Have you thought about putting her on a diet?"


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:10 AM
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110: being complimented on something that's generally out of your control

But not in L.A. I'm conflicted, I don't know if I should compliment a clear demo of a surgeon's skills upon encountering them at the mall or just ignore them and risk lowering the possessor's self-image.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:13 AM
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116: You did kick her in her spindly shins, didn't you?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:13 AM
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118: No, but I probably sucked in my stomach. That'll show her!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:15 AM
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being complimented on something that's generally out of your control

The objections to this seem silly, especially if the compliments are coming from a lover/sweetie. It's still nice to know that the person you're boning and/or in love with finds your features attractive/stimulating/aesthetically pleasing/arousing, even if you yourself didn't have a damn thing to do with making them that way. Sheesh.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:15 AM
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On the topic of clothes, given that every woman here cannot find tops that fit easily, one would think the designers would figure out that many women have boobs.

See, I always thought the problem was designers thinking women all have gigantic boobs. If I find a top that otherwise fits nicely, there's invariably a big saggy gap where, presumably, other women would be putting their breasts.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:18 AM
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117: What you want to do is meta-criticism: "I see that you had Dr. X do your work. I so admire the way he works with the flanges, to say nothing of his trademark ruby nipples. I hope you don't desecrate one of his masterpieces by going sweathog the way that bitch Britney did. It's like she threw a picasso down in the basement for the cats to pee on."


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:19 AM
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I always thought the problem was designers thinking women all have gigantic boob

As the possessor of same, I can definitively say that this is not the case.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:19 AM
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26 was I.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:20 AM
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117: What you want to do is meta-criticism: "I see that you had Dr. X do your work. I so admire the way he works with the flanges, to say nothing of his trademark ruby nipples. I hope you don't desecrate one of his masterpieces by going sweathog the way that bitch Britney did. It's like she threw a picasso down in the basement for the cats to pee on."


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:20 AM
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120: Also, "Oh, baby, I just love your consciously cultivated intellectual capacity," just doesn't work in bed.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:21 AM
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123: I should probably clarify that pretty much anything C-cup on up qualifies as "gigantic" in my world.

126 was me.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:23 AM
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120: Of course it's nice when it's coming from a lover. I think the original sentiment had to do with complimenting people generally -- acquaintances, strangers, even -- for happening to have, say, nice eyes.

I'm sort of torn: on the one hand, people don't say (sincere) nice things to one another nearly often enough. On the other, when it comes to looks in particular, there's a real danger in having one's self-esteem located there.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:24 AM
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"Is that a law degree up on the wall there? And a master's in business? Oh, yeah!"


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:25 AM
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"The Breast", Philip Roth, has not yet been referenced. Nothing to do with actual boobs, obvs., but a lot to do with actual reactions.

My grandparents were always nice and sweet on the proviso that we were rarely either seen or heard. One of my second cousins asked me for memories of my granparents, great uncles and aunts, etc., and my primary memory is being shooed out the door and told to play with my cousins.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:25 AM
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my primary memory is being shooed out the door and told to play with my cousins.

There are much worse fates.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:28 AM
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I believe that compliments about tits are classified as harrassment often enough that no one doea it any more, except for construction workers, truckdrivers, and street corner loafers.

Riiiight. Because I can't tell the difference between a random catcall on the street and a guy who is actually into me?

Rule of thumb for the confused: if you're looking at a woman's naked breasts in a sexual situation that she willingly entered into, she's not going to think you're a hoodlum if you offer a sincere compliment.

("in a sexual situation" = breastfeeding doesn't count)


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:29 AM
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See, I always thought the problem was designers thinking women all have gigantic boobs. If I find a top that otherwise fits nicely, there's invariably a big saggy gap where, presumably, other women would be putting their breasts.

Nope. The problem is sizes that vary on too few dimensions, combined with styles that have to fit closely on too many. Clothes either have to be structured to allow for varying proportions (that is, be loose or stretchy), or they have to offer enough variability in the sizing to allow people to find something that fits them properly.

Unfortunately, neither is true -- a size 6 whatever is usually closely tailored to some particular size six woman, and all other sizes (within a range) are made by multiplying her proportions by a constant. If you aren't built like her, you're out of luck.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:32 AM
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Re: the compliments thing, I think it's more what Parenthetical said, that people are just very reluctant to give sincere, non-generic (i.e. you're so hot) compliments. And people don't talk nearly as much as they should during sex/sexytimes.

On the other hand, it's weird what people do choose to compliment. For example. I feel like nearly every guy I've slept with seems to go on about how I have nice lips, but I find them to be completely average and non-interesting. Is that just code for "I want you to suck my dick", or what?

Whereas the parts of my body I like the most usually go unremarked-upon, as in AWB's comment way above.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:33 AM
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132: Well, regardless of the situation, if you're wearing a leather jacket and carrying a switchblade, she may think you're a hoodlum regardless, but she's probably into that sort of thing.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:33 AM
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Never shall a young man,
Thrown into despair
By those great honey-coloured
Ramparts at your ear,
Love you for yourself alone
And not your yellow hair."

"Yellow hair is of course a euphemism, as is "hand" in "your hand in marriage", and indeed, the books themselves.

IIRC Simone Weil was motivated by considerations of that type to pioneer the no-relationship policy. As a no-relationshipist Weil makes me look like one of those guys who's been married eight times.
"But I can get a hair-dye
And set such colour there,
Brown, or black, or carrot,
That young men in despair
May love me for myself alone
And not my yellow hair.'

"I heard an old religious man
But yesternight declare
That he had found a text to prove
That only God, my dear,
Could love you for yourself alone
And not your yellow hair."


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:33 AM
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134.2 Probably.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:35 AM
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When a former coworker had breast implants, she went out the next Friday to the local watering hole and pointedly asked the assembly for compliments. She was a little bit neurotic though.

After all this time, I still don't understand women's clothes. How hard could it be to group various body types into reasonable tranches, then do a progression of sizes in each tranche? (I realize that "misses', juniors', petite's, etc" already sort of does this, but it doesn't seem to work very well.) I've recently become acquainted with a woman who has an amazing array of vintage clothing, all of which she can wear because she's built like a 12-year-old boy. Which is great from the vintage clothing perspective, but I hardly think she can be free of body image issues.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:36 AM
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m. leblanc, Nordstrom's has good fitters, and Wacoal bras really are awesome. ebay is a great suggestion, because they never ever go on sale. Le Mystere is kind ofinteresting, especially if you need something that will plunge. Also consider small independent stores. Lady Grace is a very old granny kind of place in Massachusetts, but there must be similar places elsewhere.

I was in a Lady Grace once trying on bras, and there was a woman who worked at Victoria's Secret who was there, because nothing in her store fit her.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:38 AM
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Mean New York Granny, standing in a triangle with me and my mom, when I'm about 7. Looks me up and down and says to my mom, "Have you thought about putting her on a diet?"

Your mom should've said "You know that's the third time you've said that to me?"


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:38 AM
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I've recently become acquainted with a woman who has an amazing array of vintage clothing, all of which she can wear because she's built like a 12-year-old boy.

I miss my regular clothes so, so much. (Not that my maternity wardrobe is terrible, but so few items because I didn't want to drop a lot of money. I'm just sick of the same few options.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:38 AM
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Rule of thumb for the confused: if you're looking at a woman's naked breasts in a sexual situation that she willingly entered into, she's not going to think you're a hoodlum if you offer a sincere compliment.

("in a sexual situation" = breastfeeding doesn't count)

Blume wins the thread for the last statement.

Does "in a sexual situation that she willingly entered into" include showing extraordinary amounts of cleavage at the workplace?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:40 AM
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I want to be loved for my skull, my little parietal bone.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:41 AM
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Has anyone ever tried Spanx?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:42 AM
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Dave Chappelle already solved the problem of how to compliment women on their boobs.

http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=210282&title=great-new-york-boobs


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:43 AM
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I knew that I needed to get some new bras, when I was walking down the street and some guy yelled out: "You're jiggling, baby."


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:44 AM
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138: This happens informally, a bit -- you find a brand/designer whose size 6 fitting model happens to be built more like you that other size 6 fitting models, and shop there.

One problem is identifying the body-types: any description of a woman's body-type that deviates from model-pretty sounds pejorative, so advertising would be tricky. Take me -- in these body-image conversations, I describe myself as solid/stocky/big-boned/thick waisted and so on. This is a pretty straightforwardly accurate, but it sounds like someone being apologetically euphemistic about being obese, which I'm not. But I can't see how to describe my bodytype in flattering advertising-speak while still getting the shape across.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:45 AM
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I was at a little boutique and the two teeny, teeny saleswomen were talking about how much they loved Spanx. The one admitted to the other that she had started wearing them under everything, even jeans, because they smoothed everything out and just made her look so much better. Yikes.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:46 AM
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144: Fuck Spanx. The idea that you need to smoosh your body parts in to make them look more acceptable is fucking lame.

The only good use I got out of the Spanx shorts-type-things I bought is that I would wear them under jeans in the cold-ass winter 'cause my thighs tend to get cold.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:46 AM
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Does "in a sexual situation that she willingly entered into" include showing extraordinary amounts of cleavage at the workplace?

Heh. I passed a woman the other day as she was leaving and I was entering a store -- she was wearing high-heeled flip-flops, yet it was 26 degrees out. The snotty imp on my shoulder suggested I say to her, "Nice toenail polish."


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:48 AM
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Cold enough to make your imp's nose run? Lady needs to wear shoes.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:49 AM
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where, presumably, other women would be putting their breasts.

Hott.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:49 AM
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advertising would be tricky

At least one retailer has solved this problem by making the category names totally meaningless. Lane Bryant has this "right fit" line which has categories red, blue, and yellow that correspond to varying levels of hourglassy-ness, for jeans. It's a hugely successful line, and the jeans really do fit great.

Of course, it's only for FatChicks(tm). Straight-size retailers should check out this strategy.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:51 AM
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134: That part about the lips matches up in an odd way with my experience -- which is that women tend to have strongly held opinions on what parts of their body are attractive and will be suspicious and maybe argue with you if you compliment them on a feature they don't like.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:53 AM
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Straight-size retailers should check out this strategy.

There's some of that, but (a) they don't tell you what the codes mean, so you have to try all the options on to figure out which is which; (b) the only work for one manufacturer, and (c) they usually change them every year or two, so your acquired knowledge is useless.

E.g., five or ten years back, the Gap had different fits for their pants, and one of them fit me great. I've forgotten the name, though, because while they still have similar pants, they don't call them the same thing anymore or have the same fit options.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:54 AM
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any description of a woman's body-type that deviates from model-pretty sounds pejorative, so advertising would be tricky

I have concluded that all names of the cuts of women's jeans are aspirational. The "curvy" or "hourglass" cuts are always a disaster on me (weirdly big in odd places), whereas the "long and lean" or "straight cut" jeans usually fit me the best. I guess ladies who are actually long and lean have to wear the "matchstick" cut.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:58 AM
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Or for another example, Brooks Brothers has four different cuts of dress pants. They identify them with women's names, and describe them in terms of where the waist sits and how 'slim' they are. This doesn't tell you jack about the proportions of the bodies each is designed for.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:59 AM
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Is that just code for "I want you to suck my dick", or what?

I think it might be more that lips and eyes are what you look at the most when talking to somebody, so you tend to be very aware of the lips and eyes of anybody with whom you have a lot of face time.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:59 AM
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My best feature has always been my calves. Curly hair comes second, for those who like curly hair.

I used to know a guy who did a certain amount of novelty hand-modelling, because he had a well-formed hand with only three fingers and a thumb. His fourth finger had been amputated because of bone cancer. Quite a feature.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:03 PM
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154 is a great point. AB is obsessed with her thin, "pale" lips - before we married, she literally wouldn't leave the house without lipstick. After 9 years, I've convinced her occasionally to go to the grocery store with uncolored lips. At this point it's a joke - "What if people think I don't have any lips?" - but she obviously feels it quite deeply. Bad Old GF was crazy-paranoid about her weight (which is common, of course), but she was quite skinny (until I spent several years feeding her fattening meals). I was never prepared for her weight issues, because she so patently had none.

I suspect that once we* identify an aesthetic shortcoming, it becomes easy to focus and monitor until it becomes an obsession - you see it every day, after all.

* Men do this to an extent as well; I think women are more susceptible due to both Patriarchy and the broad range of options - there is a prescribed ideal for pretty much every cell of a woman's body, so there's always fertile ground for self-reproach


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:04 PM
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My best feature has always been my calves.

Bragging about your prize livestock is really uncouth, Emerson. Anyway, after a couple of months they stop being cute and they're just cattle.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:05 PM
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What 120 said, plus, hate to break it to you, people don't have all that much control over their intelligence, kind personality, or socioeconomic status, either. Random catcalls aren't great, but I don't like the odds on a relationship where there are no compliments except on judiciously evaluated meritorious effort.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:09 PM
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I don't like the odds on a relationship where there are no compliments except on judiciously evaluated meritorious effort.

Anti-cyborgist.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:11 PM
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Wow, those Brooks Brothers pants descriptions really are completely worthless. What I like about the thing I linked is that you measure yourself and it tells you which "color" you are.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:14 PM
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I don't like the odds on a relationship where there are no compliments except on judiciously evaluated meritorious effort

I don't think many people were arguing for that.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:14 PM
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"I'm so turned on by your ability to rise above your many inherent flaws."


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:15 PM
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I knew that I needed to get some new bras, it fucking sucks that it's considered obscene and/or an invitation to harassment if I don't feel like wearing a bra one day.when I was walking down the street and some guy yelled out: "You're jiggling, baby."


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:15 PM
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157: My experience with Brooks Brothers' is that their cuts of trousers are meant for someone else. Weirdly fitting; not too small or tight, just zigged when they should have zagged.

I have concluded that all names of the cuts of women's jeans are aspirational.

Except for the ones that are euphemistic. "Curvy" is the worst.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:16 PM
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165, see 83.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:18 PM
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Except for the ones that are euphemistic.

But I think the names are supposed to be what the jeans are trying to do. "These jeans make me look "curvy"!'


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:19 PM
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I don't think many people were arguing for that.

No, they were arguing for the badness of compliments that result from luck, e.g., pretty eyes, nice boobs. I point out that includes nearly everything except for effort.

But that said, I'm still not sure about the "breasts like twin gazelles" compliments in Song of Songs. Wall-eyed or binocular?

166: "You always try so hard."


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:20 PM
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168.2: Of course, the alternative of brutally honest ain't great either -- "no ass/potbelly" cut would be my line.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:20 PM
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142: showing extraordinary amounts of cleavage at the workplace

Our HR director is the only one in the place with deeply plunging necklines and significant boobage visible. Should I file a complaint?


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:21 PM
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Fucking Internet Explorer erased my comment forever. No Anne Tekakwith for you guys.

Does IE have even one single solitary non-bad feature that every other browser in the world doesn't also have? How can Bill Gates sleep at night?

He's doing it all for the starving Africans, I know, and so that his 2.2 normal children will never starve and will have all the opportunities.

How could I blame the starving Africans and the 2.2 normal ? Yet I do. The motherfuckers. They should just grow more food and quit fucking with my browser. The kids should be put in foster homes. Good enough for a lot of people.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:22 PM
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Wall-eyed or binocular?

Or bounding over the plains of Asia and Africa.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:22 PM
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I have a curvy cut pair of jeans that is cut with more room in the butt, which is great, but with also more room in the front, which is inexplicable given that the explanation is supposed to be about curves.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:22 PM
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157: My experience with Brooks Brothers' is that their cuts of trousers are meant for someone else.

Viz., me. It's maddening -- I need some black chinos, and they don't have them in black this year. Bastards. How do you sell chinos in three shades of beige and navy blue and not black?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:22 PM
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"You got a couple agile ungulates there, baby."


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:24 PM
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"While you're generally very attractive, I have to admit the hooves were surprising."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:25 PM
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O towers of ivory!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:25 PM
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Or bounding over the plains of Asia and Africa.

Veldt. I have a feeling that you haven't been doing the reading.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:25 PM
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169, 171: Right, Ned floated that idea upthread at 83, and people pretty much rejected it; I said something about seeing the point, but that it obviously doesn't apply in intimate relationships.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:25 PM
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with also more room in the front, which is inexplicable

Not if you're pre-op.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:25 PM
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Before I compliment someone, I first ask the prospective complimentee to fill out a questionnaire that I have structured to get at the most reliable predictors of the traits I am most likely to wish to comment on approvingly. Then, I ask him or her to do a simple cheek swab, in case this the trait I am interested in complimenting is likely linked to genetic factors.

Generally after about a week, I can plug the results of the questionnaire and the genetic tests into my model, which I continuously update based on the latest biological and social science literature. If the prospective complimentee's score on the candidate trait lies outside the 95% prediction interval for his or her levels of the predictive traits, I issue a compliment.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:26 PM
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174: So switch to Firefox. It's free, works well, and you can play with zillions of add-ons and their options when commenting on blogs gets boring.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:27 PM
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O towers of ivory!

[Partner collapses in tears at reminder of the collapse of the academic job market.]


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:29 PM
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ask him or her to do a simple cheek swab

You've got great telomeres, baby.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:30 PM
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182: And then Cala added the observation that any characteristic not in-born was more or less meritocratic, which is not a well suited approach to relationships. And then we all lived happily ever after.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:31 PM
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184: I perform exhaustive data collection on all the multidimensional ways in which I might compliment them, and then perform PCA to determine the two or three most relevant vectors to compliment. On the upside, they can know I've really thought about what about them appeals to me. On the downside not everybody responds well to "You have a spectacular [15 11 -3 4 21 9 7 7 2]".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:32 PM
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185: I'm using a friend's computer and feel antsy about changing his browser for him without asking.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:35 PM
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A few times I've inadvertently complimented a woman's shoes or clothes with no intentions at all, and found it being interpreted personally. Not necessarily favorably so.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:37 PM
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189: Ah, you find the eigencompliments. Good strategy. The initial startup is a bit costly, but once you get the system going, it really saves a lot of time because it gets rid of a lot of redundant complimenting.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:39 PM
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low hanging fruit there with the member thing

It was on purpose! Now I'm crushed that you didn't take the low-hanging fruit.

And I am glad to see people engaging with the whole no compliments for things you don't have control over - I had a whole comment written out an hour ago and then got besieged with students. As if office hours are actually for them and not for commenting on Unfogged.

But the gist being, we should, as a whole, be better about giving and receiving sincere compliments, as parsimon noted above. It doesn't really matter how much control we have over such things; I have as little (or as much) control over my intelligence as I do over whether my breasts point forwards.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:39 PM
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Does "in a sexual situation that she willingly entered into" include showing extraordinary amounts of cleavage at the workplace?

This is a great question. My general response to that situation is an immediate resentment of what appears to be a cynical attempt at manipulating the brains of all males in the vicinity.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:40 PM
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194: If that worked, I'd get the best teaching evaluations ever.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:42 PM
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My general response to that situation is an immediate resentment of gratitude for what appears to be a cynical attempt at manipulating the brains of all males in the vicinity.

Fixed that.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:43 PM
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I'm reminded of the eigenfaces, now.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:45 PM
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155: But the GAP has gone to shit. I used to like their jeans a lot, and their classic and/or bootcut fit me well, but now they wear out in like 2 seconds. I had a loose pair that were more like trousers which were okay for a while, though I wore them so much that they started to wear out where my ankles hit eachother. The other ones just wear out in the crotch.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:45 PM
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196 gets it exactly right. You can manipulate my brain any time, laydeez.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:46 PM
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Does "in a sexual situation that she willingly entered into" include showing extraordinary amounts of cleavage at the workplace?

No.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:48 PM
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193: I am overcome with remorse. Next time you dangle your fruity member I'll bite.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:49 PM
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i like my body okay, it's very normal not thin or thick, not tall or short, everything is very average, always dressed very modestly, all brown or grey, and was kinda shocked when my niece said when she was visiting me, you do have some nice blue and green things to wear and they look nice on you! without any prior conversation about clothes or how i look, i was like how she dares to analyze me something
so compliments i don't find amusing or nice, on the contrary to advices


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:49 PM
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167: It was totally obscene, but I was wearing a bra, and I realized that it wasn't giving me enough support. I wasn't really comfortable--not because of the guy, though that was surely the case--but because I wasn't being supported.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:49 PM
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201: Now, I think I'm just overcome with hysterics at the thought of a member comprised of fruit loops. I'm not sure what Toucan Sam would think of that.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:50 PM
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I have as little (or as much) control over my intelligence as I do over whether my breasts point forwards.

Being intelligent isn't as simple a matter as just turning around.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:50 PM
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You know, with a pheremone spray teachers could get great student evaluations forfrom suitable constituted classes. Another reason why teaching isn't regarded as important.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:50 PM
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Imisread Sir Kraab's comment. I was using obscene to describe the guy's behavior.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:50 PM
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Also, the clause before that one was if you're looking at a woman's naked breasts. Lots of cleavage /= naked.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:51 PM
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Being intelligent isn't as simple a matter as just turning around.

I don't know, once you turn around you stop talking out of your ass and that's generally an improvement.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:51 PM
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But you're looking at the naked parts.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:51 PM
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but because I wasn't being supported.

You should have come here -- we're here for you!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:52 PM
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Also they are naked in the following dispositional sense: when no clothes cover them up, they appear naked to observers in standard conditions.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:52 PM
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How can a compliment be inadvertent? Did you praise the garments before noticing the person in them?

---

there's a business/website called MyShape entirely built on the premise that they will figure out which current clothes, in what size, will fit and/or flatter you. You fill out a fairly thorough table of measurements (including, e.g., not just length of crotch curve, but how it's partitioned fore and aft) and they identify one of seven body types and you can search for only clothes that suit that.

My experience so far: one pair of jeans that fits well, one pair with camel-toe. They allow returns. This took *much much* less time than trying things on in stores usually does.

Their clothing selection is a bit on the cheap and gaudy side by my standards, but they may be getting more (and more businesslike) lines.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:53 PM
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I dislike being complemented on personal things, as does my son. It seems like a kind of encroachment.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:53 PM
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Next thing you know women won't be allowed to show their naked arms.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:53 PM
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[Partner collapses in tears at reminder of the collapse of the academic job market.]

Hang in there, Blume. You can always move in to my cardboard box.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:53 PM
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How can a compliment be inadvertent?

The same way an insult can be inadvertent, I guess. It's only odd because characterization as inadvertent is usually exculpatory or grounds for saying that the description as an insult or compliment doesn't really hold.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:54 PM
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215: If you insist on flaunting your triceps, what do you expect?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:55 PM
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213: What one God's Green Earth is a crotch curve?!


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:56 PM
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214: Being complimented by someone who doesn't know you can be a definite intrusion. But in a personal, intimate relationship, I don't think it's a bad thing to remark on the other person's good qualities. Then again, of course it has to be tailored to the person you're with.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:56 PM
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Is that just code for "I want you to suck my dick", or what?

If you consult the codebook, you'll see that there are a number of code words and phrases for this, including "Hi," and "Nice weather, isn't it?"



Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:57 PM
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221: I thought it was "Nice shoes."


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:57 PM
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I do not think that a lip-compliment is equivalent to an invitation to fellatio.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:58 PM
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No, "nice shoes" is for p-i-v intercourse.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 12:59 PM
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224: Oh. No wonder I get so many confused looks.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:00 PM
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Now, I am really worried about what Blume thought I meant when I told her that she had excellent eyebrows.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:02 PM
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219: It is vital to the fit of your pants on this Earth or any other.

If you bisected yourself through the nose and navel, the outline where your legs come together and all the tubes come out is your crotch curve. There's usually a corresponding seam in your pants, which should be approximately the same length and shape -- room for belly or butt as required. Also, even for a fixed length, it can be a wider or a taller U-shape.

Making fitted clothes fit is actually pretty interesting, tho' sweatpants are clearly the sensible solution.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:05 PM
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Jeez, will. Are you some kind of deviant?


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:05 PM
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What about neat shoes, what does that mean? Was W-lfs-n trying to sex everyone at uDCII?


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:06 PM
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220: Then again, of course it has to be tailored to the person you're with.

You mean "nice tits" doesn't work for everyone?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:06 PM
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How can a compliment be inadvertent?

No metonymy or synechdoche was intended. I was complimenting the container, not the thing contained.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:07 PM
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You mean "nice tits" doesn't work for everyone?

Oh, I've had nearly universal luck with it.

Though, really, just to ruin the joke, I meant that some people really can't stand compliments. Which totally runs contrary to my basic instincts, and probably means that read and I should definitely not date since she finds compliments invasive.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:08 PM
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W-lfs-n's compliments consist of saying "Wow. You are a lot shorter and fatter than I thought you would be."


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:09 PM
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Hm, yes. That one seems pretty straightforward.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:10 PM
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||

1. I'm currently listening to a catchy remix of "I'm So Excited"; I don't know who's singing.

2. Is it still socially acceptable to bum cigarettes? Two people just bummed cigarettes from the same woman, who graciously handed them over, within a 2-minute span. Don't they cost like $100 apiece these days?

3. Who's in charge of the fruit basket nowadays? Because it seems like it's well past time for Parenthetical's.

|>


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:11 PM
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Incidentally, I once complimented Blume's shoulders here, as displayed by her strapless gown in our photo section, and my compliment was rather gingerly received, but I confess that it was was not really inadvertent in this case.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:11 PM
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Is Parenthetical new? I just assumed she had just changed her name.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:11 PM
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Wait, didn't Parenthetical just change her name, but she's been here for ages? Now I'm drawing a blank on the old name. (And I've lost the fruit basket -- I can find links to it, but they're all linkrotted. I could do an image search, but I don't really want to find something as foul as the old fruitbasket, yet something non-foul wouldn't be funny. Which means I want someone else to step up and link to a properly foul fruitbasket.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:13 PM
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235, 237: You're both right; I'm newish (I can't remember when I finally started commenting, under the pseud DL, but it was a few months ago), but I've been lurking for um, 2 years or so? There abouts.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:14 PM
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236: No offense taken. You should see my back!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:14 PM
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The best kind of compliment is one on the relationship to the complimenter. "You are so great at putting up with me."


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:18 PM
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It's a good thing that there was no synechdoche, though, because that would have been forward and dirty-old-mannish. Probably all statements should be labelled as to the presence of absence of synechdoche, perhaps like the weather forecasts: "22% chance of synechdoche".


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:19 PM
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Blume has a terrific back, it's true.

There's no way for me to make this not sound wrong somehow, is there?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:23 PM
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239: I have no sense of history -- I can remember someone's very new, like in the last couple of weeks, or if they were here before I was, but other than that I have no idea who's newer than who. Only a couple of months, really?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:25 PM
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243: Oh, you're supposed to say nice things about her back; anything non-obscene is perfectly appropriate. I've lost track -- when are you two actually getting hitched?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:26 PM
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235.2: Was it ever? I haven't noticed much of a change one way or another on this. FTR, I bummed cigarettes from friends pretty frequently during my last year of high school, but I don't think I've done it since then. I have lied about not having my lighter with me and asked to use someone's as a conversation starter more than once, though.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:26 PM
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July.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:27 PM
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Really, though, the best kind of compliment is personalized, like "I love your laugh," or "I really like how forthright [substitute other behavioral feature] you are."


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:28 PM
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241: Usually said to long-suffering wives and other spice not too long before the bitter divorce.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:29 PM
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I'm newish (I can't remember when I finally started commenting, under the pseud DL, but it was a few months ago

This is why all you people with boring pseudonyms should get better ones. I have no memory of DL, but Parenthetical is a distinct presence (and a delightful addition to the Mineshaft).


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:33 PM
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2. Is it still socially acceptable to bum cigarettes? Two people just bummed cigarettes from the same woman, who graciously handed them over, within a 2-minute span. Don't they cost like $100 apiece these days?

I spotted this at a bus stop the other day, and had the same thought. It may have even been a couple of guys together bumming. At which point it's approaching a mugging, but the exchange seemed friendly enough.

I have a funny anecdote about Iris and the drug dealer next door, but I have to get some work done. Sorry!


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:33 PM
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247: We'll have to hang tin cans and streamers on the blog to celebrate.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:33 PM
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211: You should have come here -- we're here for you!

Unfogged didn't exist in 1995.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:33 PM
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249: I was thinking. That sounds like the kind of compliment that gets handed out in a relationship that's not doing well.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:34 PM
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250: Hah! See, I'm not alone in my pickiness about people's pseudonyms.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:35 PM
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If I'm not mistaken, Parenthetical's true name is Ouzel, but she's ashamed of her heritage.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:35 PM
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Re: Brooks Brothers. I was sure that none of their stuff would fit me, but I got a couple of T-shirts at one of their outlet stores which fit quite well. I do think that the stuff sold in the Outlet stores is made only for the outlets and not for the regular stores.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:35 PM
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252: I'm imagining the Unfogged logo all done up, google-style.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:36 PM
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I thought we were going to all crash the wedding?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:38 PM
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ome people really can't stand compliments.

I'll take them, then. I'm in the market for second-hand compliments.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:40 PM
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We certainly deserve an orange post title.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:41 PM
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Further to 248: Imagine! A society in which "You have a great laugh" is considered the height of compliments, akin to "great tits" or "great ass." You'd then have people fretting over their unfortunately high-pitched squealy giggle, or their sad tendency to inadvertently snort/snuffle when laughing.

Then of course you'd have a industry dedicated to voice lessons and various forms of training in the breathing conducive to a well-modulated laugh. The unfortunates would go about trying not to laugh, much as some people wear shapeless oversized sweaters in order to escape attention, or as a form of protest.

I should write sf stories.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:41 PM
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259: Exactly. Somebody has to stop Emerson sex Mutombo.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:43 PM
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262: But women did used to do that, in the 'prunes and prisms' period. (p&p was how you looked, not sounded, but 'an excellent thing in woman' was much cited.) Of course, I think Victorian women's novels *are* SF.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:51 PM
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I recognized immediately that Blume's shoulders were irresistable. It's unfortunate that she chose to devote them to evil purposes.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:52 PM
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It's unfortunate that she chose to devote them to evil purposes.

Like shoulder checking those people who walk three abreast on the sidewalk. Out of my way, fuckers. I want some sidewalk too.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:55 PM
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Then of course you'd have a industry dedicated to voice lessons and various forms of training in the breathing conducive to a well-modulated laugh.

And in this world maybe Deep Throaty Laugh is a famous porn movie!


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:55 PM
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Was W-lfs-n trying to sex everyone at uDCII?

More or less.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:57 PM
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You'd then have people fretting over their unfortunately high-pitched squealy giggle, or their sad tendency to inadvertently snort/snuffle when laughing.

I do fret over this! Well, fret overstates the case, but. I have one specific laugh that sounds distinctly like a guinea pig and that I find very annoying but difficult to control.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 1:59 PM
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Only a couple of months, really?

I think maybe Decemberish? I don't really know - I've been reading Unfogged comment threads religiously enough for long enough that it's a bit unclear to me when I exactly actually managed to comment for the first time and not just as "Lurker #1" or what have you.

This is why all you people with boring pseudonyms should get better ones.

True, true! Just took me awhile to come up with a decent one (and, not surprisingly, at the same time I started commenting much more). (And, thank you).

Parenthetical's true name is Ouzel

It's my secret pseudonym, John! Shh!


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:02 PM
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269: I'm sorry you had to tell us this, Parenthetical.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:03 PM
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271: You're going to send me off to voice lessons, aren't you?


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:04 PM
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I hate my nasal voice but don't fret about it. I just avoid the telephone. I also hate people whose voices resemble mine, such as Pat Buchanan and Neil Young.

I don't hate my Fargo accent at all, though I fear that I've lost too much of it.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:05 PM
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#273. I'd like to hear Pat Buchanan perform "Powderfinger."


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:08 PM
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270: Well, I go to Google and search for site:unfogged.com "Posted by: DL", and there are about 30 hits, the first of which is this, from Nov. 3. That looks like the earliest.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:08 PM
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I told ben he had nice tits at unfoggeDConII, and I now understand why he scurried away and spent the rest of the evening glancing nervously at me out of the corner of his eye. Apparently this compliment doesn't work for everyone! Duh.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:10 PM
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275: Technology will trump my memory every time. Thanks! I am going to put that comment in my scrap book. It'll probably fit right next to "And this is about when my progress towards degree started to go awry..."


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:12 PM
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275: DL's misdirected comment 3 on that thread is remarkably prescient as a response to 5. Then again, "There was a crisis of masculinity" would probably work on 99% of Unfogged threads.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:19 PM
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264: In the 'prunes and prisms' scene in Little Dorrit -- was I misinterpreting it, or was the point of saying 'prunes and prisms' to develop a sexy pout? I'd always associated 'prunes and prisms' with prissiness, but that didn't seem to be what was going on in the scene.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:24 PM
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Thank God the crisis of masculinity is over.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:25 PM
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279: I believe, based on reading way more Charlotte M. Yonge than is sane, that the point was to develop a sexily prissy pout, where 'sexy' was a much narrower channel between 'plain' and 'trashy' than we fat-bellied caravels are required to navigate today (and more braided with the outwash of 'childish').


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:30 PM
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278: That wasn't misdirected, actually. The post was a list of four eternal verities. She supplied a fifth.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:36 PM
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2 to 280.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:36 PM
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281: Ooo, I should read more Yonge. That's some weird stuff.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:42 PM
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"Prunes and prisms" would be a great genre designator if only it referred more closely to the content (c.f. "swords and sorcery").


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:49 PM
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I told ben he had nice tits at unfoggeDConII

Is this true?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:52 PM
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Of course you have nice tits, ben.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:55 PM
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We all have nice tits.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:56 PM
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No, that I was so told. Meanies.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:56 PM
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282: Fine, take all the spooky magic out of it.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 2:58 PM
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286: No, I was just feeling up the fabric of your jacket, if I remember correctly.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:02 PM
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I'm very insecure about my tits.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:04 PM
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And yet you can't take a compliment about them.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:06 PM
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That shouldn't be surprising, since it's often true of traits about which one is insecure.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:14 PM
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I do not think that a lip-compliment is equivalent to an invitation to fellatio.

no, I think the etiquette is that one sends out invitations to fellatio no later than two weeks in advance of the event, to allow for RSVPs.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:19 PM
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Now there's fellatio e-vites, but they're kind of tacky if you're having a formal event.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:21 PM
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The other ones just wear out in the crotch.

Caitlin Flanagan, call your office. Dry humping isn't dead yet!


Posted by: pain perdu | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:21 PM
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I find that repeated public exposure is the best way to get past insecurities.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:22 PM
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296: indeed. and of course, thank-you notes.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:24 PM
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298 reminds me. At what point do we get access to the Unfogged picture pool as newbie commenters? Must we offer up some sort of sign of our good faith?


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:29 PM
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300: turns out you have to send in pictures of your tits.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:30 PM
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To ben.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:31 PM
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You have to ask ogged or Armsmasher.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:31 PM
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But if you just want to see a picture of my nipples, it might be simpler to contact me directly. I'm sure we can work something out.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:32 PM
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301: Is that why Ben is so insecure about his own? There's a ranking of the tits of Unfogged, isn't there?


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:32 PM
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303: Ok, thanks.

304: What do you want in payment?


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:34 PM
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There's a ranking of the tits of Unfogged, isn't there?

You never know around here.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:35 PM
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304: What do you want in payment?

Your phone number.

Ha! Just kidding. I don't use the phone.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:37 PM
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This thread reminds me that the newbies might not be familiar with the many opportunities for self-expression we have around here.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:38 PM
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Does "in a sexual situation that she willingly entered into" include showing extraordinary amounts of cleavage at the workplace?

Not long ago, a female colleague innocently and quite accidentally exposed one of her breasts to me at work. Her breast (the left one, if you must know) was rather small, but in every respect aesthetically pleasing. She was visibly embarassed by the episode, and I sensed that her embarassment was aggravated by self-consciousness about her small boobs. Part of me wanted to reassure her that the perfection of her boob was undiminished by its small size, but the sensible part of me was visualizing how that statement would look in a deposition transcript.


Posted by: pain perdu | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:38 PM
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I don't use the phone.

Neither do I. I need to talk Verizon into letting me have a cellphone plan with only 100 anytime minutes, and then have them charge me significantly less. I'm tired of months going by where I use approximately 1/100th of the minutes available to me, and I don't think the answer is going to be that I suddenly start using the phone more.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:43 PM
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re Spanx: I really enjoy my pair of Spanx "tight end tights." They are like regular tights, except the "control top" goes all the way up to your bra, so it holds your whole gut in. BUT they have a vent hole so you can pee without pulling the whole assembly down. I have used that hole for nefarious purposes. Therefore, I love my Spanx tights.

re unsexy laugh: I have been complimented on my snorty laugh. I only do it when something is particularly funny, so I think the laugh is itself a compliment to the joker in question.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:50 PM
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so true, i never use any more than the 1/3th of 600 min allocated, and t-mobile charges me 45 for not talking on the phone, sometimes 53, if i click on some sms that came, ads mostly, but it's good to my family to know that they can reach me anytime
though they can reach me anytime on skype too
prepaid cards could be useful you pay for exactly how much you talk, but i'm not sure those are available here, i never could find any, there are only fixed monthly plans it seems


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:52 PM
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i'm not sure those are available here

They are, although not only as cards, but also as cheap cell phones. They tend to not have the greatest coverage, though - ok if you stay in urban areas, not so good if you're out in rural areas.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:54 PM
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I'm insecure about three of my laughs, all because of people making fun of them.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:55 PM
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they have a vent hole
but it should be like feeling wind or something in that place, how inconvenient sounding tights they are


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 3:58 PM
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311: Verizon has prepaid plans with national coverage. If you've still got time left on your contract, you can talk them into letting you switch to prepaid or to a lower monthly limit; they'll do a lot to keep you as a customer.

Or switch to AT&T and get rollover minutes *and* the righteous feeling of supporting union workers. /commercial


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 4:00 PM
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Once there was a man who had only three laughs to laugh his entire life long, and whenever anything funny happened, he never knew which to use, or whether he should keep all his laughs for later.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 4:00 PM
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317: Thanks! I suppose I sort of knew that but hadn't thought about it in relationship to my own situation.

(And I would switch (woo, union) but I'd have to talk all my family into switching too, which is the whole reason I have Verizon to begin with).


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 4:04 PM
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They are like regular tights, except the "control top" goes all the way up to your bra

that sounds really quite prodigiously uncomfortable.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 4:05 PM
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320: Anything designed to squish your parts in is presumably uncomfortable.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 4:11 PM
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321: Though I personally find a good, supporting bra (which does a bit of squishing) to be far more comfortable than no bra.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 4:12 PM
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322: I've heard that, yes.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 4:15 PM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 4:33 PM
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. . . significant boobage visible. Should I file a complaint?

Still aghast at the concept an hour after I started to write a smart-ass response.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 4:34 PM
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I sensed that her embarassment was aggravated by self-consciousness about her small boobs

You might want to have the settings on your meter checked.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 4:41 PM
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She was visibly embarassed by the episode, and I sensed that her embarassment was aggravated by self-consciousness about her small boobs.

I'm going to guess that that's probably not what was running through her mind.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 4:49 PM
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I'm mostly bemused by the wardrobe failure -- I don't think I've literally ever seen anyone accidentally flash a tit in a situation where they weren't changing in public or breastfeeding or something. How would that happen? (Particularly for someone with small breasts; for someone bigger, I can imagine the combination of leaning forward/low neckline/sudden catastrophic bra-strap failure turning into exposure; unlikely, but it could happen. But not for someone who wasn't depending on a lot of support from their bra.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 4:53 PM
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328: I've actually seen this happen more than you'd suspect, particularly with my smaller breasted friends who frequently forgo bras - leaning forward, the gape of the shirt, etc - would tend to lead to flashing. Then again, I also had a friend who managed to get an entire breast to pop out of a deep v-neck sweater (despite a bra) in the middle of gesticulating wildly during a conversation.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 4:56 PM
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Oh, I suppose it depends what you count as flashing; if you mean "someone looking down the neck of the top could see everything", that's not implausible. I was thinking more along the lines of your second scenario.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 4:58 PM
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Well, pain perdu did say "aggravated," not "caused." I would have a hard time telling what degree over and above the normal embarrassment came from the size, but assuming pain perdu knows the woman really well, it's plausible.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 5:00 PM
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331: Even giving credit for pp's having been there and knowing here, I'm still giving it an 'implausible'. It's hard to imagine someone embarrassed about having exposed themselves thinking "This would be less embarrassing if I were sexier!"


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 5:03 PM
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Part of me wanted to reassure her that the perfection of her boob was undiminished by its small size, but the sensible part of me was visualizing how that statement would look in a deposition transcript.

Keep that sensible part of you around.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 5:10 PM
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"That is one beautiful tit that I just didn't see. At all. Really."


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 5:17 PM
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"Which is not to say I wouldn't be able to see it, of course."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 5:20 PM
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Glance, don't leer, that's what I say.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 5:22 PM
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At a dance during my senior year of college, I wore a strapless gown that looked stunning but was just a shade too big, and during some vigorous dancing, the boobs made their escape. I don't recall being mortified or even embarrassed, because I was laughing too hard -- the friend with whom I was dancing pulled the best face, a raised eyebrow combined with an over-the-top appreciative glance.

Not that I would recommend this tactic, but it's definitely something I remember as funny rather than as horrible.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 5:27 PM
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That was you?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 5:30 PM
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This is no longer relevant, but some of you ladies may be interested in checking out the clothing line "theory," which I've found fits me really, really well. Their theory seems to be that a judicious use of lycra is good for everyone. I've only bought their stuff used, so when I browsed their their shop a couple of days ago I was floored by the prices. Anyway, they have really nice stuff.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 5:49 PM
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I could see Liz in some of their stuff, particularly. They have some good basic suits and cute soft cardigans and whatnot. Their sizing doesn't seem to be insanely vanity-based, either.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 5:51 PM
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I'm mostly bemused by the wardrobe failure -- I don't think I've literally ever seen anyone accidentally flash a tit in a situation where they weren't changing in public or breastfeeding or something. How would that happen?

It happens when you're not wearing highly covering clothing, I think. It's probably happened half a dozen times to me in my lifetime to date. Usually I'm the only one who realizes. So I believe.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 6:15 PM
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I wore a strapless dress swing-dancing at a college formal once, and got spun through a half-whip (?): from face-to-face, two full turns out to the length of my partner's arm and mine -- but my dress did two and a half turns.

My partner, who IIRC was a diplobrat and had been an adolescent in Vienna, looked very mildly surprised and appreciative and led a full whip -- back along that arm and rotating out the other -- which got the dress to rotate in the other direction, and at the proper moment I expanded the ol' ribcage and was decent again.

And we finished the number, and no-one but the mutual friends who were watching ever mentioned it to me, but they very nearly hurt themselves laughing.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 8:05 PM
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'Amy,' said Mr Dorrit, 'you have just now been the subject of some conversation between myself and Mrs General. We agree that you scarcely seem at home here. Ha--how is this?'
A pause.
'I think, father, I require a little time.'
'Papa is a preferable mode of address,' observed Mrs General. 'Father is rather vulgar, my dear. The word Papa, besides, gives a pretty form to the lips. Papa, potatoes, poultry, prunes, and prism are all very good words for the lips: especially prunes and prism. You will find it serviceable, in the formation of a demeanour, if you sometimes say to yourself in company--on entering a room, for instance--Papa, potatoes, poultry, prunes and prism, prunes and prism.'
'Pray, my child,' said Mr Dorrit, 'attend to the--hum--precepts of Mrs General.'
Poor Little Dorrit, with a rather forlorn glance at that eminent varnisher, promised to try.
'You say, Amy,' pursued Mr Dorrit, 'that you think you require time. Time for what?'
Another pause.
'To become accustomed to the novelty of my life, was all I meant,' said Little Dorrit, with her loving eyes upon her father; whom she had very nearly addressed as poultry, if not prunes and prism too, in her desire to submit herself to Mrs General and please him.

Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 8:15 PM
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some of you ladies may be interested in checking out the clothing line "theory,"

They have huge sample sales every season. You should get on the email list for them, jackmo.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 8:43 PM
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343: clew, thanks for the excerpt.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 10:59 PM
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Though I personally find a good, supporting bra (which does a bit of squishing) to be far more comfortable than no bra.

Have you tried the Rawhide Bra? It rounds 'em up and moves 'em out.

(KR gratefully acknowledges his father and begs leave to recycle one of his jokes.)


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 6-09 11:17 PM
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Fleur once had a pretty mortifying breast exposure experience at the wedding of a friend. It was just before the wedding, and the bride, a close friend of Fleur's, was a bundle of nerves. Fleur decided she would go over to the limousine where the bride was waiting to go to the church and cheer her up. So she walks over the car, pulls down the top of her dress, and presses her tits against the darkened glass--whereupon she hears a cry of shock and alarm from the father of the bride, who was sitting next to the window.

The maneuver was a success inasmuch as the bride was laughing so hard that she got some relief from her nerves.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 7-09 1:50 AM
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