Be sure to drive to the service in your Sherman Tank.
Lovely. One mile from the house I grew up in!
That is probably the most uniquely identifying information I have ever pseudonymously posted on the internet.
Not many people know this, but the historical Jesus had a machine-gun arm.
Jesus would have used a gun on the moneychangers.
I'd figure Jesus more the crossbow type, if I had to guess.
Christ has to move with the times. Crossbows are so 14th century.
7: Apparently I need to post something over at Standpipe's blog...
One would think he will have learned a lesson from the last time. A Barrett is just the thing for maintaing one's personal space with people trying to get up-close and personal.
http://www.barrettrifles.com/index.aspx
I bet Jesus used actual Roman candles to BURN! SHIT! DOWN!
He said recent church shootings, including the killing Sunday of a late-term abortion provider in Kansas, which he condemned, highlight the need to promote safe gun ownership.
Yeah, what says "condemnation of church shootings" like a liturgical celebration of gun ownership, which involves asking the parishioners to bring their firearms into the church?
What the hell kind of denomination is this, anyway?
I've got the love of Jesus, love of Jesus
Down in my heart
Down in my heart
Down in my heart to stay!
I've got the piece that passes understanding
Down in my heart....
Am I the only one pedantic enough to be amused that the minister is named...Pagano?
I was chit-chatting with an NRA-type dude today and I remarked that gun ownership was trending down, but some brief googling suggests the stat I was misremembering is that hunting is trending down, whereas gun ownership is trending up. Which is...um, weird.
Anyone have good numbers on that?
16: Not joy joy joy joy? That's how my Methodist friends sang it.
That's also how Rod and Todd Flanders sing it.
I learned it from the Lutherans. I think joy joy joy was another verse.
What the hell kind of denomination is this, anyway?
Assemblies of God, apparently. And man, this really is all kinds of crazy:
"We're just going to celebrate the upcoming theme of the birth of our nation," said pastor Ken Pagano. "And we're not ashamed to say that there was a strong belief in God and firearms -- without that this country wouldn't be here."
Looks like not everyone's down, though:
John Phillips, an Arkansas pastor who was shot twice while leading a service at his former church in 1986, said a house of worship is no place for firearms.
"A church is designated as a safe haven, it's a place of worship," said Phillips, who was shot by a church member's relative for an unknown reason and still has a bullet lodged in his spine. "It is unconscionable to me to think that a church would be a place that you would even want to bring a weapon."
What does some dude in Arkansas know, though? This is Kentucky:
Marian McClure Taylor, executive director of the Kentucky Council of Churches, an umbrella organization for 11 Christian denominations in Kentucky, said Christian churches are promoters of peace, but "most allow for arms to be taken up under certain conditions."
It's not just about the guns, though. Only mostly:
Pagano is encouraging church members to bring a canned good and a friend to the event. He said guns must be unloaded for insurance purposes and safety reasons.
He said the point was not to mix worship with guns, though he may reference some passages from the Bible.
Odd that he doesn't specify which verses he has in mind.
11 to 23! 23 to 24! 11 s/b "Sifu"!
Am I the only one pedantic enough to be amused that the minister is named...Pagano?
No.
More details here.
"Even if I were perfectly comfortable with open-carry handguns or gun rights, it seems to me a completely whole other thing to connect those rights to Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Jerry Cappel, president of the Kentuckiana Interfaith Community, a coalition of local leaders from various religions.Tying in the event "with one who explicitly called us to put down the sword and pick up the cross and love our enemies and turn the other cheek, it just makes no sense," he said.
The Rev. Nancy Jo Kemper of Lexington, who has lobbied against laws such as one allowing citizens with permits to carry concealed weapons, said the event "would nauseate Jesus."
From the link:
Ken Pagano, pastor of New Bethel Church in Louisville, Ky., says America wouldn't exist without God and firearms.
Nor would America exist without barbed wire. I suggest surrounding the church with it.
You can't spell Amerifiregodarmsica without God and firearms, Kraab.
Would America exist without dumbfucks?
Eric? Ari?
32: Certainly not without "eric"; it's right there in the name. But I think it's a little harsh to call Eric and Ari dumbfucks.
Certainly not without "eric"; it's right there in the name.
As is "ari" if you take out the "me" in the middle of it. As you should; ari is nothing if not selfless.
I'm trying to balance my innate urge to defend Kentucky against the blind anti-Kentuckian rage induced by reading the Letters to the Editor in the Courier-Journal.
He said the point was not to mix worship with guns, though he may reference some passages from the Bible.
Odd that he doesn't specify which verses he has in mind.
Well, those verses where Charlton Heston plays Moses, duh.
Deuteronomy 33:27. The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.
Rage wins. Fucking racist bigot troglodytes.
The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms
Offer it up to the souls in Purgatory; or at least to the freshly downed corpses now lying on the floor of the church vestibule.
Oh good heavens. The comments at essear's link are crazed. Some poor soul suggests without irony that maybe, if Jesus had been packing heat, the cucifixion would never have happened. Um, dude?
Out the door, line on the left, one cross each.
Oudemia, you don't understand. If Jesus hadn't died for his sins, then, uh, something else.
Jesus would pack tuna sandwiches with lots of pickles. And juiceboxes.
24: Assemblies of God, apparently. And man, this really is all kinds of crazy:
Ja. It's useful to point out here that Assemblies of God run on a self-governing pastorate system. So, strictly speaking, the pastor can go whichever direction he wants. Assemblies of God are a branch of the pentacostals, and in this particular instance, dispensationalist and believers (more or less) in inerrancy. So this pastor is right on beam in responding to the impending Second Coming (per teo):
Pagano is encouraging church members to bring a canned good and a friend to the event.Spreading the word of the impending end of the world, as it were. However, to go back to the Assemblies:
The Assemblies of God's "Cardinal Doctrines" are salvation through Jesus Christ, baptism in the Holy Spirit, divine healing, and the Second Coming of Christ. These beliefs are considered to have a biblical basis and are thus considered non-negotiable.
The doctrinal position of the Assemblies of God is framed in a classical Pentecostal and an Evangelical context. It believes both the Old Testament and New Testament are the divinely inspired revelation of God to man and the infallible authoritative rule of faith and conduct. It is Trinitarian, believing that there is only one God, yet three "persons" who are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God created the world and everything in it; however, man by voluntary transgression fell and thereby incurred not only physical death but also spiritual death, which is separation from God. Man's only hope of redemption is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ the Son of God. Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith toward Jesus Christ. By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, being justified by grace through faith, man becomes an heir of God.
The Assemblies of God believes in Christ's virgin birth, his sinless life, his miracles, his substitutionary work on the cross, his bodily resurrection from the dead, his exaltation to the Right Hand of God as told in the Bible. It also believes the Second Coming of Christ is imminent. The Second Coming of Christ includes the rapture of all who have been saved followed by the visible return of Christ to reign on earth for one thousand years. This millennial reign will bring the salvation of Israel and the establishment of universal peace. It believes in a literal Hell where those who do not receive Christ's salvation will go when they die. It also believes in a literal Heaven and that after the Second Coming there will be new heavens and a new earth.[So these are the people with the 'Warning: This car will become driverless at the Rapture'-type bumper stickers.] But:
Prior to 1967, the Assemblies of God, along with the majority of other Pentecostal denominations, officially opposed Christian participation in war and considered itself a peace church. It continues to give full doctrinal support to members who are lead by religious conscience to pacifism.So the pastor there is a bit off the reservation.
max
['Weird.']
Jesus would pack tuna sandwiches with lots of pickles. And juiceboxes.
Mormon Jesus is the honkiest Jesus of all.
Jesus would pack tuna sandwiches with lots of pickles. And juiceboxes.
Nah. Just five loaves and two small fishes.
Until such time as I am proven wrong or my hands get tired from sticking my fingers in my ears and going lalalalala I choose to believe that this is all a piece of elaborate performance art and/or a video shoot for Negativland's The Gun and the Bible.
A couple of weeks ago I was sitting at dinner with some friends and some friends-of-friends. It turned out that one of the latter is a Republican who claims to be socially moderate but, he said, finds gun rights to be his number one issue so votes Republican every time. "I'm not a libertarian," he said, "I love having national parks and don't want corporate logos on them but I want to be able to defend myself from the bear if I'm hiking through Yosemite."
"Honey," I said, "You don't have to go all the way to Yosemite to find a bear to defend yourself against."
Wait, what? Gun use in national parks is restricted, isn't it?
http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/weapons.htm
The possession, use, or discharge of a firearm in Yosemite National Park is prohibited, to include pellet and BB guns.
Weapons may be transported through the park, provided that they are unloaded, broken down or cased, with ammunition kept separate from the weapon, and securely stored in a car or hotel room.
You may not carry the weapon.
The National Park Service will follow Congress's directive and implement the new firearms law, which states that its provisions will take effect nine months from today (May 22, 2009). For the time being, the current Reagan Administration regulations governing possession of firearms in national parks remain in place. Under the current regulation, firearms are generally prohibited, but citizens may transport unloaded and dismantled or cased firearms within or through Yosemite National Park, as described above.
Under a rule to take effect in January, visitors will be able to carry a loaded gun into a park or wildlife refuge -- but only if the person has a permit for a concealed weapon and if the state where the park or refuge is located also allows concealed firearms. [...] The park rule will be published in the Federal Register early next week and take effect 30 days later, well before Obama takes office Jan. 20. Overturning the rule could take months or even years, since it would require the new administration to restart the lengthy rule-making process.
I'm pretty much ignorant of gun laws because I don't own a gun and never will and so don't really bother to learn about them. I don't especially care if other people want to own guns, not even if they want to own lots and lots of guns, but I refuse to have one in my house and don't think I would enjoy learning better how to use one against someone else. I do sincerely appreciate the info, though.
I then went on, by the way, to explain that I think that for most people who say gun ownership is their #1 issue there is some weird cocktail of power fantasies, paranoia and half-assed Freudian dick fever at play leading them to think they're the star of an action movie. He didn't love that but he didn't cry, either.
Seriously, this preacher just makes my brain ache. Patriotic music? I'm going to guess there'll be more Onward Christian Soldiers and less America the Beautiful. The whole guns/god/funny furners/etc. crowd increasingly becomes a parody of itself so why not go all the way? He should call it Balls Day and hire a monster truck with a painting of an engorged cock down the side. Nobody will be able to hear the guy's sermon anyway for the sound of Freud spinning in his grave.
55: Folks routinely hunt/shoot in Wrangell/St. Elias and other Alaska nat'l parks. Guides also take rifles on raft trips etc for bear protection (one guide told me that in thirteen years he had fired his rifle once on a trip - over the head of a bear to scare it away. He also said that he could have managed the whole incident much better. Good man).
I'm not sure if my current state of residence does this, but I know that a lot of states that permit CC have really stringent training requirements. Personally I'd like to see those requirements extended to all guns, but I really don't have a problem with gun ownership as such. Shooting is fun, some people have legitimate safety concerns, and as long as the people without legitimate safety concerns but with half-assed Freudian dick fever* know how to safely handle their weapon and aren't about to go off half-cocked I see no problem with letting them palliate their anxieties.
* This phrase is now part of my standard vocabulary. Domo arigato Mr. Robusto.
Douitashimashite!
really stringent training requirements
The last I knew, which was years ago, the same was true here in NC and I think that's a fine idea. I don't question that guns are fun, definitely, and I don't revile those who use them for hunting or sport, but I've got zero patience for the cold, dead hand crowd. I was taught to safely load and fire my dad's rifle when I was a kid and that was fun but also very humbling and there was really no mistaking what guns are for: they are for shooting things.
Oh my, is 43 ever the truth.
Sometimes we fail to remember our history in that during WWII, the Japanese military opted not to invade the USA because of its armed citizenry...We are at war today or haven't these so-called religious organizations noticed.
I have no patience for people who conflate their right to bear arms with the state of being an asshat.
I thought the Japanese didn't invade the U.S. because we blew-up a decisive percentage of their carriers at Midway. And because what they wanted from us was pretty much oil and our absence from the left side of the Pacific.
from the left side of the Pacific
North-at-the-top orientationist!
North is clearly up and South is down. Why would penguins have those little claws on their feet if they didn't need them to keep from falling off the earth?