Re: Just sort of a grab bag of shits-n-giggles

1

My favourite very sappy romantic song is 2,000 Miles by The Pretenders. (That's what you were asking, right? I mean "asking" all subtle-like.) I'm trying to think of my favourite non-sappy romantic song -- is there such a thing? -- and all I'm coming up with is Hungry Wolf by X or something by The Pogues (can't think of the name).


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 2:53 PM
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By the way, my love for Chrissie Hynde has shown undiminished through the years, such is the intensity of the torch I carry.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 2:54 PM
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Wow, John Doe sounds great in that video, while Exene sounds like complete shit. Maybe that's why they broke up.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 2:58 PM
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my favourite non-sappy romantic song

Alice Clark's "Never Did I Stop Loving You"


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:00 PM
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That's what you were asking, right?

Sure, why not.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:03 PM
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Re: toddler pee. I presume she asked the kid why. Why?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:04 PM
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Apparently Alitalia makes our airlines look like customer service super stars.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:05 PM
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That's an awesome song, apo. But truth be told, the horns are a little sappy. I mean, when compared to the throbbing beat put up by DJ Bonebrake. (And yes, I'm calling you a girl's blouse, if that's what your wondering, at least when your taste for negro music is juxtaposed with my fondness for the LA punk scene of the 1980s. I'm just that hard* is all.)

* Please step away from the low-hanging fruit**.

** Again.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:06 PM
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you're

I can't even pretend to insult someone very well. Fuck my life.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:07 PM
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If Tom Paxton records a song about an airline breaking a guitar before YouTube is around for it to go viral on, does it make a sound?


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:07 PM
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Ari, did you know that Exene was married to Aragorn and they had a kid?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:07 PM
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The punctuation in that first sentence is driving me mad. Mad, I say!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:09 PM
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I actually keep a list of non-sappy (specifically punk rock) love songs. "Totally" by Screeching Weasel is sometimes at the top of it (a very silly song that I love more than it deserves, probably).


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:10 PM
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Ari, did you know that Exene was married to Aragornand they had a kid?

Wait, was that before or after the end of the Third Age?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:10 PM
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12: Really? What'd I do?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:10 PM
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I not only didn't know that, oudemia, but I had to look it up before believing that you weren't funning me. Wow, my admiration for Viggo Mortenson just went up quite a lot. I guess he's cooler than apo, too.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:11 PM
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14: How did that end up with a typo in your version?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:11 PM
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Oh, ok, so I thought there was actually someone in real life named Aragorn and that 14 was therefore a joke. But no. I see I completely misunderstood everything and made a total ASS of myself.

12: Really? What'd I do?

Why is there a comma there? Why is the period inside the parentheses?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:12 PM
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and they had a kid

Are you saying that's why she sounds like shit in the linked video? Because that's some seriously sexist shit.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:12 PM
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14: How did that end up with a typo in your version?

Copy-paste chicanery.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:12 PM
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Not romantic, but I love the Pretenders' Tequila.

Chopin's nocturne in F minor #1 is nice.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:12 PM
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I like Robert Wyatt's "Sea Song", but it would probably be considered sappy by you lot.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:14 PM
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Why is there a comma there? Why is the period inside the parentheses?

The comma is because that's where the little voice in my head pauses when it reads it outloud. The period inside the parentheses is because it gets lonely.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:14 PM
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Even though it was covered by Bill Rieflin and Chris Connelly.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:15 PM
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PROTIP: If you find yourself wanting to put a parenthesized remark immediately after a comma, delete the comma.

Also, terminal punctuation only goes inside parentheses when the entire sentence is parenthesized. Thus what you should have written is: "pretty well with her two-year-old (who had initiated it)." But you could also have written "pretty well with her two-year-old, who had initiated it.".


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:17 PM
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Re: toddler pee. I presume she asked the kid why. Why?

Y'know, I didn't think to ask, and she didn't include the motivation.

She did idly speculate that the kid was mad, (no duh), which makes me think she actually didn't ask her daughter why. Maybe just too aggravated in the moment.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:17 PM
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My radio show tomorrow will feature no fewer than six renditions of noted sappy song "Black is the Color".


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:17 PM
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25: Aren't you even a teensy bit aggravated that I managed to say "is because" twice in a row, (in a sentence about grammar, no less?)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:18 PM
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I just assumed you were so hasty in your desire to explain yourself that you elided the "there".


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:19 PM
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Exene has MS. :(


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:22 PM
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6: At two, they just kind of do stuff. Newt trained himself at about that age, but there was a (brief, thank heavens) transition period where he seemed to know he had control over where he pooped, but saw no reason to confine that to the toilet. There were repeated bathtub incidents and at least one rug incident.

It really didn't seem to express hostility, just learning how to do things. (Really, it was maybe two, three weeks. Not bad at all.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:25 PM
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Exene has MS. :(

This I knew. And +1 for your frownie face. X was big into Victoria Williams's Sweet Relief charity back in the day. That said, I doubt that Exene lacks health insurance, given that she apparently traded up in the husband department. She's such a gold digger, that one.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:25 PM
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the horns are a little sappy

Nah, the horns are jazzy. My favorite sappy love song is this one.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:26 PM
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Ari, did you know that Exene was married to Aragorn and they had a kid?

I did! I knew that!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:26 PM
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To be clear, I'm joking about the gold digging. I was really upset when Exene and John split. Back there and back then, theirs was what marriage, and love, was supposed to be.

I think I'm oversharing.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:26 PM
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where he seemed to know he had control over where he pooped, but saw no reason to confine that to the toilet. There were repeated bathtub incidents and at least one rug incident.

That seems way more like "just learning how to do things" than carefully peeing on every single article of clothing in one's dresser does.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:27 PM
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Oversharing outloud.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:27 PM
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sappy horn


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:31 PM
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Rather terrifically, Fowler not only argues that if you use dashes as parentheses, you should (where you'd use a stop after a bracket), use the same stop after dashes; he actually gets withering about those who omit same, for their lack of rigour.

Thus:
So far as it is true -- and how far it is true does not count for much --, it is an unexpected bit of truth.

I love Fowler, he's so CRANKY.


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:32 PM
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OT but awesome.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:33 PM
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39.last: Of course he is. The reason is because people refuse to LEARN.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:35 PM
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27: Is one by George Crumb? And another perhaps by Nina Simone?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:37 PM
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My brother, about 2 or 3, decided to poop in the hall outside of the occupied bathroom. My mother decided to spank him. Which decision was the less well considered?


Posted by: Mo MacArbie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:39 PM
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So far as it is true -- and how far it is true does not count for much --, it is an unexpected bit of truth.

Oh that is just ridiculous.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:40 PM
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43: I guess she got a grab bag of shits-n-giggles all over her hand?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:43 PM
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39: Wait, Fowler's saying you need the comma after those dishes? That's just, well, that's insane. I mean, the dashes in the sentence are misplaced; commas would have served better. But the combination of dashes and a comma is enough to make one very, very ill, isn't it?


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:44 PM
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Or what parsi said.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:44 PM
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27: Is one by George Crumb? And another perhaps by Nina Simone?

Masayuki Takayanagi, Luciano Berio, George Crumb, Currituck Co., Espers, and Mike Seeger.

Patty Waters, Nina Simone, Johnny Smith, Burl Ives, and X-Legged Sally will have to wait.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:45 PM
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dishes, dashes, let's call the whole thing off

And now, back to work. The chapter's almost done!


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:45 PM
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Ari, did you know that Exene was married to Aragorn and they had a kid?

I did! And I met the kid!

There was a brief period in my life when Viggo had sent WW1 (then-girlfriend) more roses than I ever had. It was a little embarrassing, but also pretty cool, even pre-Aragorn.

As far as slow dancing goes: WW2 and I took a dance class before the wedding in which we learned "slow dancing". Not foxtrot, not waltz, though we did those too (and not particularly slowly). Nope, just "slow dancing" -- a step and a couple of turns, and my slow dancing is all of a sudden completely distinguishable from lackluster dry humping, which I don't know that it previously had been.

Though if it's just getting-it-on music, I recommend Me'shell Ndegeocello's third album, which may in fact be too slow to dance to.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:45 PM
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World War? Wrongshore's Woman?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:47 PM
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and my slow dancing is all of a sudden completely distinguishable from lackluster dry humping,

I think we had very different experiences at our middle school dances.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:48 PM
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Wrongshore wife, right?


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:48 PM
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Wrongshore's Wife #1, I assumed.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:49 PM
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The dry humping was lustrous, was it?


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:49 PM
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That seems way more like "just learning how to do things" than carefully peeing on every single article of clothing in one's dresser does.

I'm a firm advocate of not anthropromorphizing small children more than necessary. Lots of what they do, even when they're doing it 'on purpose' really isn't motivated by the sort of things that would be obvious from an older kid or an adult. From a two year old, I'm sure she did what she was trying to do --pee on a whole bunch of stuff -- but I'd be really surprised if she was intentionally being spiteful or making a mess.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:51 PM
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I think we had very different experiences at our middle school dances.

Yeah, what's with this lackluster dry humping idea when you could just sneak off to the back of the gym and have sex?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:51 PM
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55: Once it was over, anyhow.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:51 PM
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If So far as it is true (and how far it is true does not count for much), it is an unexpected bit of truth. is correct, then (by rigour and all logic), ditto with dashes, if used as parentheses: I would always rewrite, because it looks weird.

(It's not a perfect example though, because a comma-less So far as it is true it is an unexpected bit of truth is not actually wrong; low-comma less-is-more Modernists would prefer it this way.

Dash commas and dash semi-colons were acceptable punctuation in the 18th century: chek out Tristram Shandy or Mason & Dixon (latter not 18th century but in the style).


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:51 PM
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50: Every story about the man speaks to his graciousness and generosity and thoughtfulness. Oh, and his natural talents -- how he picked up the swordplay and horseback riding instantly and all the languages he speaks and his poetry and music writing and and and.

He might as well really be Aragorn.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:52 PM
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Oudemia may well have been lustrously dry humping as she typed 60.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:53 PM
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61: Rowr.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:54 PM
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not anthropromorphizing small children

I don't know that anthopomorphizing humans is really necessary.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:55 PM
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With some of the people I work with, it's hardly possible.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:56 PM
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60: I just re-read my older son the LotR trilogy and was surprised to see that Tolkein's Aragorn, especially in the first two books but even in parts of the third, is laconic, occasionally standoffish, certainly intimidating, and even a bit of a prick. Mortenson made him a bit mysterious, for sure, but also far more magnetic than Tolkein's character. Which is to say, I've liked Viggo since he had a tiny part on an episode of NYPD Blue during its second(?) season. He was just a kid back then.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:58 PM
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A favorite non-sappy love song: Leonard Cohen's "One of Us Cannot Be Wrong". (Arguably not a love song, but still, it's use in this video of the Bugatti Veyron 16.4 in action is odd to say the least.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 3:59 PM
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63: anthropromorphizing, leblanc! Roughly it means "humans who are in favor of giving form to things."


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:00 PM
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I just re-read my older son the LotR trilogy

All the way through? Wow, you're an entirely better father than I am. Noah's watched all three movies dozens of times.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:01 PM
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ITS


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:01 PM
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YOUR RIGHT


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:02 PM
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TITS, HOOORAY!


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:03 PM
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Wow, you're an entirely better father than I am.

I just thought I'd italicize that for the record.

Really, though, the movies are too violent for a six-year-old, I think. And I try, when possible, to read him books before letting him watch the movie. Because I'm an entirely better father than you are.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:03 PM
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I'm a firm advocate of not anthropromorphizing small children more than necessary. Lots of what they do, even when they're doing it 'on purpose' really isn't motivated by the sort of things that would be obvious from an older kid or an adult.

Oh, I'm sure! I am more curious about what her stated motivation was, rather than presuming it was spite or something. It's just that it sounds like a project, you know?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:04 PM
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Isn't Noah four?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:05 PM
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54 is right.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:05 PM
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For a two year old, "Hey, when I pee on cloth it gets wet and squishy!" or maybe "It looks like pee comes out, but then it disappears when it hits fabric!" sounds like the kind of motivation I'd expect.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:05 PM
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I should note, also, that Mortenson's Aragorn is a bit sketchy through the scene in the Prancing Pony, if memory serves. But then he does quite a bit of laughing for the rest of the films and is clearly a very lovable, if also awesomely badass, dude.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:07 PM
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59: This just fails, Tierce, because dashes are not substitutes for parentheses.

(I only go on about this because I am a big user of dashes.)


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:07 PM
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I don't know, cats pee on stuff as revenge. Seems plausible a 2 year old might.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:07 PM
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Having never raised a 2 yr old myself.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:09 PM
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Viggo fans should look up The Indian Runner, a film by Sean Penn and a very good one too.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:10 PM
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Isn't Noah four?

Yes. And deeply in love with the violence.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:12 PM
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73: I'm a firm advocate of not anthropromorphizing small children more than necessary

Agree in general. However, way back when my eldest was in diapers, there was a friend of his (who lived next door) who would inevitably let loose with the most awesomely large crap in his diaper whenever he came over to our house (or yard, even). They were super neat freaks with a neatness-obsessed babysitter. Our house, not so much (especially with all of used diapers lying around the place).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:13 PM
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A few weeks ago, Noah had lined up all his stuffed animals on the floor and announced that they were all going to fight.

"You know, Noah, in this family we're really more lovers than fighters."

"Yes, and these guys love to fight."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:14 PM
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I don't know, cats pee on stuff as revenge.

Anthropomorphization. They pee on stuff sometimes because they have a health problem, sometimes because they're trying to communicate something, and not necessarily to the humans. I doubt it's often revenge. More often marking territory.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:17 PM
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65, 77: In a parallel universe, Peter Jackson's attempt to persuade Daniel Day-Lewis to play Aragorn succeeded, and he got a little more than he bargained for.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:28 PM
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Son jarocho versions of La Bamba are less sappy than mariachi versions.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:39 PM
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Ari got it right with comment #1.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:47 PM
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86: I'm having trouble imagining what that would look like, in part because the Aragorn played by Mortensen was so plainly, and flatly, the masculine guy who shakes off the sweat manfully while intersecting (in the Prancing Pony scene) with the svelte slip of a girl with puffy lips who is loyal to her father while yet ....

This is not to say that Viggo isn't sexy. I've enjoyed most watching Orlando Bloom as Legolas, though: there's a scene in which he dances nimbly across the top of the snow. Not bad hair, either.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:48 PM
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... but I thought Jews weren't allowed to like Xmas songs.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:51 PM
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Not that there's anything wrong with a mariachi version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-X4rx-QJZk


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:52 PM
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89: I would expect the principal difference to be one of firepower, for want of a better word: One wonders whether anybody else in the cast but McKellen could have stood up to his presence.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 4:54 PM
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I thought Jews weren't allowed to like Xmas songs.

You'd think so, but it's a surprisingly widespread phenomenon.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:02 PM
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92: Stood up to Daniel Day-Lewis's presence?

Agreed. And the idea is that McKellan took the role of an elder, by definition background support at best in this day and age. Is that the idea?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:03 PM
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93: I'm as goyish as anyone, and I love seders. I suppose I could put horseradish on matzoh any time of year, but it wouldn't be the same.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:06 PM
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92: Ian Holmes, certainly. Not a big part though. Maybe Rhys-Davies on a good day without working in a half inch of prosthetic.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:07 PM
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94: I think so (though I liked McK-as-G-the-W far more than I like the standard-issue viejo in that sort of movie). DD-L vs. the hobbits is not what I would call a fair fight for the audience's attention.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:07 PM
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While we speak of fathers and Tolkien and reading out loud to children, my own sorta grumpy paternal figure read me all of Lord of the Rings, all of David Copperfield, all of The Old Curiousity Shop and all of Pickwick Papers. Plus a lot of other stuff. Lord of the Rings was the finale; we had established that I was officially too old to be read to and that I'd get to hear LOTR and then we were done forever. I have never seen the movie versions of Lord of the Rings and cannot, in all honesty, reconcile the images of the LOTR actors with the comforting cardboard nobility of the characters as I conceive them.

My father enjoyed reading the Ents and had a particular Ent-voice he'd developed. He refused, however, to read aloud most of Tolkien's verse.



Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:07 PM
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90: It's only kind-of sort-of a Christmas song, right? And anyway, I used to like a lot Christmas songs -- before Christians ruined them.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:07 PM
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erm, Holm. dunno where tjat "es" came from.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:08 PM
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Am I reading 65 and 72 correctly? Ari read the entire LotR trilogy to a six-year-old? Huh.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:08 PM
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Further to 94: I mean, the Lord the Ring films were supposed to be ensemble casts, not dominated by any one actor or character -- though they were, of course, ultimately, if only because if you throw a hyper-sexy person or two into the mix (and present him and her as such), that's going to get the audience's salivary glands working.

If you took Mortensen out of the mix and put in Day-Lewis, yeah, you'd have a very different movie.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:08 PM
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95: "Anyone" would include the teenage me wondering why a few of the people at the summer program I was at had potholders pinned to their hair. There's this whole other world where "seder" is just a misspelling of something made by John Deere.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:10 PM
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98: In fairness to the no-doubt-high-quality of apo's fathering, I cut a bit from the books. Tolkein's obsession with fully realizing the geography of Middle Earth is a bit much, even for me. And I only read the first few lines of the poetry and refused to sing any of the songs.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:11 PM
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And I only read the first few lines of the poetry and refused to sing any of the songs.

Well that brought your parenting score down to earth.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:12 PM
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101: My wife went through The Hobbit and all of LOTR with ours starting maybe fourish.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:12 PM
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refused to sing any of the songs

What soup said. You basically suck as a dad, ari.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:13 PM
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98, 104: Is there anyone, anywhere, who sincerely enjoys Tolkien's verse and songs? He included so much of the stuff that he must have enjoyed writing it. Did any of the Inklings (cough C.S. Lewis cough) ever sidle up to him and murmur something like "I like the elves, John, but I don't think this stanza is your best work"?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:14 PM
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101 see 104. I cut some bits, for the sake of my sanity and his attention span. Also, Frowner, if those are fond memories, I think you're right to skip the movies, which are amazingly violent, placing bloodshed at the center rather than the periphery of the story. Not that there's anything wrong with that -- he says, in a shout-out to apo's Noah -- but it's very different from the books. And I don't much like having Orlando Bloom's bleached hair waving around in my head when I read the part of Legolas (sorry, parsi).


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:14 PM
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They are certainly the sorts of books you can read to a kid long before said kid can read themselves.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:14 PM
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I still can't read myself.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:15 PM
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What did I mean by that? I don't know!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:16 PM
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Is there anyone, anywhere, who sincerely enjoys Tolkien's verse and songs?

Remember we're talking about five year olds.... so yes, probably near universally if you do it right.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:16 PM
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And I don't much like having Orlando Bloom's bleached hair waving around in my head when I read the part of Legolas

Yes, yucko.

I do remember finding Aragorn's love life totally bewildering in the books, as a kid -- here's this lovely woman we have actually gotten to know, but he must reject her in favor of this elf who we don't care about at all. Disconcerting!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:17 PM
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108 is funny and mostly right. But I should hope that C.S. Lewis had the good sense and humility to shut the fuck up about poetry and prose when in the presence of Tolkein.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:17 PM
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Remember we're talking about five year olds.... so yes, probably near universally if you do it right.

I guess doing it right involves composing some really fucking catchy melodies, because the problem with the songs is that they're deeply boring.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:18 PM
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I guess doing it right involves composing some really fucking catchy melodies

plus dance moves and/or gestures. Won't anyone think of the children?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:19 PM
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109: It's okay, ari. Film-Legolas is pretty much the only one I know.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:19 PM
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111 shouldn't play poker.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:20 PM
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My son and I had a long conversation about the issue outlined in 114. I was mostly stumped about how to explain the concepts at play, so I settled for mumbling something about the transcendent nature of true love. There, now am I a sufficiently crappy parent? If not, try this: reading to my son, along with going on long bike rides and hikes, is one of the activities I most enjoy doing with him. I am, and always haven been, lousy at and easily bored by things like blocks and much of the other stupid shit young kids like to do. Okay? Happy now?


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:21 PM
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Which is to say, thank god he's reached an age where we can look at pr0n together.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:23 PM
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120: Blocks are awesome.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:26 PM
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Blocks are the best.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:27 PM
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ari, if you don't make up songs plus dance moves and/or gestures, I'm sure it'll be fine nonetheless.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:27 PM
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Woo hook 'em blocks!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:28 PM
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Which is to say, thank god he's reached an age where we can look at pr0n together.

just think of all the lotr slash fan-fic you can discover together. And hand drawn facsimiles.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:28 PM
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It's funny -- I love books to a stupid extent. Reading out loud, on the other hand, annoys me terribly, because it's so goddam slow. I read The Phantom Tollbooth to my kids, but I think that's about it for anything longer than a picture book. I'd do myself an injury before I'd read my kids the LOTR trilogy.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:30 PM
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It's too bad this challenge hasn't been met.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:31 PM
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Reading out loud, on the other hand, annoys me terribly, because it's so goddam slow.

You could always buy the audio book version and play it to them. On 2x speed, as needed.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:32 PM
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I spoke too soon!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:32 PM
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Have you no faith in the interwebs, nosflow?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:32 PM
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This slash fiction is terrible. I'm only a few sentences in and I've already got to deal with "tree's" for "trees" and the risible idea that you could slice through a heavy tree branch with a sword.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:33 PM
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"Her fairly large boobs seemed to glimmer in the moonlight."

Ridiculous.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:35 PM
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127 gets it exactly right.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:38 PM
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re: 24

And Rachel Unthank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gozagpzqGaA

[Although it's her sister singing lead on this one -singing begins about 1 min in]


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:38 PM
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...the risible idea that you could slice through a heavy tree branch with a sword.

"Slice" is not the right word, but I suppose it depends on the sword.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:41 PM
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"Her fairly large boobs seemed to glimmer in the moonlight."

That's a great line.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:43 PM
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"[F]airly large"? Details, man!


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:48 PM
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The link in 7 is making me seriously rethink my travel plans.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:49 PM
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fantastic line. Everything about it works. The "fairly" really puts it over the top.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:49 PM
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I'm sorry that you've never had the good fortune to gaze upon fairly large boobs bathed in the moon's glow, ben. They do, indeed, seem to glimmer. It's sublime, really.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:49 PM
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Now that we're all in agreement, surely ben will back down.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:50 PM
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I've liked Viggo since he had a tiny part on an episode of NYPD Blue during its second(?) season. He was just a kid back then.

He was more of a kid (27) in Witness.

Also, if emoticons are deprecated, I can't imagine what +1s are.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:50 PM
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I think it's the "seemed to" that makes the line perfect.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:51 PM
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143 was me.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:51 PM
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I can't imagine what +1s are

They're like the Daisy Dukes of Plus Fours. Anyway, I was kidding, you anonymous curmudgeon, you.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:52 PM
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I like how it's not "her nipples" but "her bosom's nipples".


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:54 PM
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I don't know what you expected in linking to or reading that, neb. It's just as ridiculous as it's supposed to be.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 5:56 PM
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The link in 7 is making me seriously rethink my travel plans.

Are you booked on an Alitalia flight? Although if I remember from the other thread it would give you a good excuse to miss the meeting with the anonymous funder.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 6:03 PM
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2:

I thought Greg Clark said you had a thing for Margo Timmins?


Posted by: Brad DeLong | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 6:04 PM
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150: Calumny! Despite my Montreal roots, I can't stand the Cowboy Junkies. Indeed, I consider Timmins to be a schande far de goyim. Or something more relevant, if you will.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 6:12 PM
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Are you booked on an Alitalia flight? Although if I remember from the other thread it would give you a good excuse to miss the meeting with the anonymous funder.

I rearranged my travel plans so as to make the meeting with the anonymous funder, and I'm not currently booked on any flight. But I need to buy a ticket soon, and flying Alitalia with one stop in Rome looked preferable to transferring in Detroit and Amsterdam, or Boston and Paris, or...


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 6:12 PM
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But I need to buy a ticket soon, and flying Alitalia with one stop in Rome looked preferable to transferring in Detroit and Amsterdam, or Boston and Paris, or...

I would go with the two transfers.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 6:19 PM
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A little late, but one of my favorite non-sappy love songs is the third track on this mix (huh, I just noticed that "goad" for "god" typo.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 6:23 PM
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108: Not to my knowledge, but google "Not another fucking elf!".


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 6:46 PM
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I don't know what you expected in linking to or reading that, neb

In linking, I expected people to follow the link and join me in bemusement or the like. In reading, I expected something at least marginally competent.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 6:47 PM
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I recently had the misfortune of reading Pokemon rape fiction. I am now excused from reading all fan fiction until the end of time.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:12 PM
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132: dorks say you're wrong about the tree's.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:13 PM
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What, a three-inch branch? Whatever. Consider.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:15 PM
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Coming up next: Milk slash fiction.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:17 PM
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In reading, I expected something at least marginally competent.

Well, you were wrong.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:19 PM
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155: I've read that story. Perhaps naively, I sort of expect Lewis to have been less overtly dickish, and more ingenuously helpful, than Dyson.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:22 PM
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...Pokemon rape fiction....

That sounds like a good excuse to go out and beat up some nerds.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:24 PM
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163: and so the cycle of violence continues.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:24 PM
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161: yes, I was. I am in fact aware of this—I pointed it out, see?—so I'm not sure why you feel the need to say anything more.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:26 PM
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165: No, no, I don't. It's just painful, you see. Don't link to or read it again, okay.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:30 PM
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Parsimon why don't you go ahead and stop telling other people what to do. Thanks!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:32 PM
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"Slice" is not the right word, but I suppose it depends on the sword.

Not really. A good sword and a good axe have mostly opposing design principles.

So you might laboriously and pathetically hack your way through a heavy branch with a sword, but slice is entirely inapt.

You might do slightly better with a scimitar or other curved blade designed for use from horseback, but not much.

A bush knife like a kukri will have roughly the same mass (more than some swords, less than others), but much better concentration of force for this task. Although they are great for smaller stuff, it's still a real pain in the ass to cut down anything resembling a "heavy tree branch" with one. I can remember the blisters.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:33 PM
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168: The smiths of Gondolin can make a sword that will do pretty much whatever you want to a tree. And it will glow when enemies approach.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:37 PM
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Of course they can.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:38 PM
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154: That mix holds up great, NickS. The Rick Ruskin and Paul Brady songs are particular faves.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:38 PM
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I got one a ebay.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:38 PM
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167: Oh, I forgot that, and you are right. Remember the advice yourself!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:38 PM
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OT:

This is the kind of thing that happens when well-meaning people prohibit the hunting of hippies for sport.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:43 PM
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154: That mix holds up great, NickS. The Rick Ruskin and Paul Brady songs are particular faves.

Thanks. Its a very happy mix. The main theme ended up being "people who sound like they're enjoying themselves making music."


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:51 PM
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174: I dunno. Yoga's not my thing, but it seems like a harmless combination. Possibly even pleasant.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:56 PM
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Hey, 158 shows about the only thing a sword would be good at in this area --- taking the thinner ends of softwood branches off. Those are way too flexy for most blades to grab. So long as you've got lots of room to swing, it'd work. Of course, you can probably cut them easeir with pruners or a handsaw, so it won't catch on.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 7:59 PM
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174/176 At worst harmless. Every one of those guys you could swap 1:1 for a volunteer border patrol yahoo would be a net win for the country.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:01 PM
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174: My favorite tea is kombucha green tea. It's fantastic, with a kind of fruity fresh happenin' taste.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:02 PM
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A copy of Free to Be You and Me killed my childhood. My one-man war on hippies will continue.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:04 PM
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A copy of Free to Be You and Me killed my childhood.

How?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:05 PM
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174: Based on reading exactly one sentence, since I'm too lazy to log in, I'd have to say that it sounds awesome.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:06 PM
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My one-man war on hippies will continue. ... to be mistargeted?

Hating on hippies is like kicking puppies.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:07 PM
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Wait, I'm not sure I understand 183. Is there something wrong with kicking puppies?


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:10 PM
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The article linked in 174 does end with the line "Y'all ready to shake your asana?"


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:13 PM
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With some of the people I work with, it's hardly possible.

truer words have rarely been spoken.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:16 PM
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I wish to clarify that I agree with 183.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:30 PM
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Loving on hippies is like making sweet, sweet love to a puppy.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:32 PM
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I wish to clarify that I agree with 183.

Thank god! I was extremely concerned that you were a self-hating hippie.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:35 PM
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Free to Be You and Me is like reading the Joy of Sex to a puppy.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:37 PM
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188 I am sure no fewer than 60% of young women have loved on hippies.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:37 PM
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191: From the breasts down?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:41 PM
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I probably wouldn't have said 192 if I'd noticed that TJ used "fewer" instead of "less".


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:41 PM
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Whatever, jokes are scarce and valuable. Let's keep it.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:42 PM
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I believe in using separate comments as a form of grammar.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:43 PM
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189: God no! I do become concerned when some of the so-called hippies wear polka-dotted stretch pants.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:44 PM
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Being a hippie is so much more than terrible fashion sense.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:45 PM
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181: Traumatically.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:47 PM
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Somehow I'm convinced that there's actually a story behind Flippanter's flippant comment that FTBYAM wrecked his childhood innocence.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:48 PM
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197: We're treading on dangerous territory, heebie.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:50 PM
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Marlo Thomas beat the shit out of his mother, nearly killing her. Flippanter's mom tried to steal Marlo's corner, you see, and Marlo couldn't be a bitch. It's all part of the game.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:52 PM
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I fucking adore Tolkien's poetry, you heathenish haters. "O Water Hot" is a masterpiece.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:55 PM
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201 was just awful, a complete failure in both conception and execution. Apologies to one and all.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 8:57 PM
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Hey, it's okay, lil' ari. You got out there and tried real hard. And that's what counts.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:00 PM
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189: God no!

SURPRISE TWIST! I was not actually worried about any such thing.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:02 PM
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204: I can't stop thinking, "What if someone new to the blog reads 201, and that's who they think I am? What then?" So your support means the world to me.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:06 PM
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That's a bunch of hippie shit, heebie. Ari failed. What do you expect? He's a failure.

You hear that, ari? No matter what you do, you'll always be a failure. Chair of the department? You failed upwards, is all. All you can do is fail.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:06 PM
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See? It's a reaction like 207 that's going to keep me up tonight. Well, that and trying to get this chapter finished.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:07 PM
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Well, that and trying to get this chapter finished.

Oh, like there's any mystery how that's going to turn out.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:08 PM
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209: Actually, as it happens, the ending is a bit of a cliffhanger.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:11 PM
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You'll do great on this chapter, champ. I just know it. You're gonna hit it out of the park.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:12 PM
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Whoops, 202 was by me.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:13 PM
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I wish you wouldn't encourage him like that, heebie. You know how broken up he'll be when this latest idea ends the way all his others have. We may as well admit it: the guy has no future in anything.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:14 PM
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Neb, I believe it was Mother Theresa who once said "I can do no great things, only small things with great love." It is the same for Mother Ari. Write the smallest chapter you can, Ari.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:19 PM
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Live a perfect life and then merely write the chapter naturally.

--Zen and the Art of Chapter Writing


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:21 PM
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neb's right, heebie. I'm quitting and moving to Kansas City.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:22 PM
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Marlo Thomas beat the shit out of his mother, nearly killing her. Flippanter's mom tried to steal Marlo's corner, you see, and Marlo couldn't be a bitch. It's all part of the game.
You hear that, ari? No matter what you do, you'll always be a failure. Chair of the department? You failed upwards, is all. All you can do is fail.

This is going to turn into a Jewish nerd version of Pulp Fiction, isn't it?

max
['I spent five years with this manuscript stuck up my ass!']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:29 PM
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That looks like a pretty swell place, actually, but if I had the choice I'd take the on in Portland.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:29 PM
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The Portland one's nice, too. And of course I'd rather live in Portland than (almost anywhere else in this country) in Kansas City. Still, I think the KC house is more appealing. And I've been told that KC's a pretty interesting town, much nicer than almost anywhere else in the region. And $370,000! Can you believe that?


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:34 PM
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I must be the only person who likes the Ogden one.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:35 PM
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Ooh, pretty houses. If only I had $370,000.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:36 PM
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ONE


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:36 PM
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Still, I think the KC house is more appealing

I'd probably agree with that, actually, were they only decorated a bit differently; the Portland one is brighter. But the KC one has KC weather, so…

I lived the first two years of my life in Kansas City, and apparently freezing pipes and horrible winds were regular in winters and summers, respectively. We went back once to visit house where we used to live—somehow we were able to stay with the family then living there, something about which it didn't occur to me then to wonder. Or maybe it was with family friends who lived nearby. There was sledding. Not bad! But I'm not sure I'd enjoy living there.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:38 PM
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I prefer the one in Ogden, though it has atrocious décor (which can be changed easily enough) and it's in Ogden (which can't so easily). BTW, the Mt. Tabor neighborhood in southeast Portland is not "named after a 195-acre park", you NYT nitwit, it's named after the volcanic cone which is the primary geologic feature of that part of the city. If you descend Mt. Tabor toward the northeast, you will be in the vicinity of Emerson's brother's pie joint.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:40 PM
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I'm no longer sure why I said that about being brighter. I must have been thinking of the furnishings rather than the walls, which are plenty bright.

Excuse me. I'm so ashamed. I'll leave now.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:40 PM
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It's true, you can only sled so far. And essear, there was just a "What you can get for $89,000" story up, but now I can't find it. Because I'm a failure at everything I do.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:40 PM
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NYT nitwit

Oh, Jesus, I just had simply the drollest idea for a neologism! "NYTwit". I can't wait to use it. I'm sure it will set everyone a-titter.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:41 PM
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I miss Emerson. And I'd like some pie. Maybe I'd better buy the Portland one, after all.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:41 PM
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a-twitter, even.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:43 PM
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It would upset your career, ari. You have a life in Davis: a family, a job, a dapper friend; just what everyone needs. Tell you what. You buy the house in Portland, and I'll keep it up for you. I'd only ask a modest wage, atop, of course, room and board, and it would make your (very occasional) Oregonian excursions much simpler and more enjoyable.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:43 PM
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Wait, I thought you were leaving. What's up with the idle threats?


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:43 PM
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What's up with the idle threats?

God, tell me about it. It's nearly impossible to find a good threat these days. Layabouts one and all.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:44 PM
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Who is leaving this time?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:45 PM
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How terribly witty! I hope you'll remember my contribution when "NYTwit" makes you the toast of the blogosphere.

"NYTwit" would also be a good pseud for the right person.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:45 PM
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229 to 234


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:46 PM
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That fucker.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:46 PM
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A dullard's unplanned juxtaposition of a pair of words which can suggest nothing to him is hardly a "contribution", Jesus. Don't put on airs.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:47 PM
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I wouldn't buy the Kansas City house. Cement floors sap your will to live.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:53 PM
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237: And yet it enabled your exquisite bon mot, you ingrate. See how far you get without me.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:55 PM
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Cement floors sap your will to live.

I thought that material was only a problem up one's ass. So really, what's your problem with concrete floors?


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:57 PM
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Heebie's ass is capacious, ari.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 9:59 PM
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They make your bones creak and your back ache. And not that bone, and not bedsprings creaking. They make you tired. They make you old and arthritic before your time.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:00 PM
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No, concrete and cement are not the same thing.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:00 PM
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Heebie's ass is capacious, ari.

I contain multitudes.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:01 PM
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I'm already old and tired. It's the perfect union of home and buyer!


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:01 PM
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Haven't you ever wondered how cement floors retain their youthful appearance? The answer will shock you and horrify your sensibilities.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:03 PM
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226 there was just a "What you can get for $89,000" story up, but now I can't find it. Because I'm a failure at everything I do.

Here. Yay! I'm not a complete failure like ari!


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:07 PM
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If you hold out a bit longer you'll be able to buy $89,000 houses all over Cali, too.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:10 PM
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Just in time for the Calpocalypse.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:12 PM
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That Austin condo's kinda swipple. Plus, pool! And two of my best friends just moved to Austin, so that's a bonus. That said, the log cabin is pretty excellent. And having just returned from the Black Hills, it's really beautiful there. Still, I'm not sure I'd want to live there.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:15 PM
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That Austin condo's kinda swipple.

Walking distance from Whole Foods!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:17 PM
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I guess I'll just stay here and wait for my house to be worth $89,000. Shouldn't be more than another week or two. (Actually, I just found out that home prices went up about 5% here last year. The fuck?)


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:17 PM
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in the vicinity of Emerson's brother's pie joint

From which my sister just sent me a t-shirt, having taken pity on my diseased condition or something. BUT. FedEx guy: well done on leaving the package as directed, not so well done on leaving it in the afternoon sun, which turned out not to be good for the Moonstruck chocolates.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:20 PM
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Actually, I just found out that home prices went up about 5% here last year. The fuck?

Time to sell!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:26 PM
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Sheltered academics just hadn't heard about the recession yet last year.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:28 PM
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252: (Actually, I just found out that home prices went up about 5% here last year. The fuck?)

Guessing, but not badly: people flooding out from inland to where the remaining jobs/functional neighborhoods are.

Time to sell!

If he's no longer (or never was) underwater, just possibly.

max
['Everyone is gonna move over one house.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:34 PM
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people flooding out from inland to where the remaining jobs/functional neighborhoods are

Could be. Which is to say, we're growth-limited, have good schools, and, until now, the university was hiring.

If he's no longer (or never was) underwater, just possibly.

We've considered it. But where would we go?


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:39 PM
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Portland. Duh.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:40 PM
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257: Which is to say, we're growth-limited, have good schools, and, until now, the university was hiring.

The state government contraction double dip. Ugh. Those green shoots are tentacles!

We've considered it. But where would we go?

Depends entirely on the fate of UCD, does it not? Unfortunately, it might just get sliced up. The only thought that occurs to me is that Brad said he felt he should invest in some real estate, what with QE.

max
['Ohhhh.... nelly.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 10:48 PM
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Is UC Davis in such bad shape that they can't keep the power on? I've been trying to access a website there that's mysteriously down for a few days.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 07-27-09 11:10 PM
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No, we've still got power. I hope.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 12:30 AM
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In a parallel universe, Peter Jackson's attempt to persuade Daniel Day-Lewis to play Aragorn succeeded, and he got a little more than he bargained for.

Ah, yes, Daniel Day-Lewis. The hair of Fabio and the understated acting style of Brian Blessed - now together at last!

7 is funny, in particular because it's happening to Michael Totten, and he kind of deserves it. Pity about everyone else though.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 2:24 AM
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things like blocks and much of the other stupid shit young kids like to do

OK, so when I was a kid, we had these Richard Scarry Puzzletown sets. I loved 'em. I had always assumed that they had been left in Miami, or ruined in a wet basement in NJ. Then, when my dad was here in the spring, he announced that Iris would be getting them next time we came to visit him. Turns out that they were all safely kept in the (dry) attic. Iris spent most of our visit playing with them, and we packed as many as we could manage into our already-overstuffed car.

So last night I dreamt that I discovered (in a house that was being demolished as part of an elaborate archidream) additional sets! Now I'm all disappointed.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 6:11 AM
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neb's right, heebie. I'm quitting and moving to Kansas City.

I have strong opinions* about that.

That looks like a pretty swell place, actually

You're wrong.

* Yes, I fucked up the image/column width thing. I simply don't care enough to fix it.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 6:23 AM
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264: I simply don't care enough to fix it.

Maybe that's what the designer of that house said.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 6:39 AM
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That house is truly awful.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 6:46 AM
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264: The inside is equally terrible! CEMENT FLOORS!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 7:00 AM
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I don't think the cement floors are what make it terrible -- they aren't my favorite, but I've seen them work fine in other modern houses. It's the cack-addled layout and proportions that suck.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 7:10 AM
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Cack-handed or crack-addled, I suppose.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 7:11 AM
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That is one ugly building.


Posted by: OFE | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 7:18 AM
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Re: Alitalia. I once had to rebook an Alitalia flight at zero dark thirty at Heathrow, and they refused to do anything "because the Rome office won't be at work until ten".

In the airline business they are famous for being the line that regularly sends off aircraft on the Rome-Milan shuttle with over half the seats taken up by non-revenue passengers - i.e. deadheading crews, who could travel free to work at their Rome or Milan hubs if they didn't want to move.

That it still exists is a test case of Doug Henwood's remark that he no longer expected capitalism to collapse having seen the power of government bailouts. It's the economic equivalent of a waterfall flowing upwards.

So clearly, the European Union should guarantee its survival just to piss off Michael Totten.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 7:25 AM
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242 is profoundly misguided. Cement floors are awesome. They give a room a sense of solidity and permanence, they are easy to clean, and when it's boiling hot outside you can just lie on the floor and let the heat flow out of you.

Also, cement, concrete, brick, and stone make a house that lasts. Most American houses are made of sticks and spit. Some contemporary McMansions have a design life of 30 years. No shit. 30 years and then you need to do major renovations just to keep the place from falling apart.

Cement: It's not just for putting in your butt.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 7:26 AM
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It's the cack-addled layout and proportions that suck.

YES. That master bedroom is a disaster. And why are 3 of 7 interior pics of the same (OK, but not great) room?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 7:34 AM
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And please, people, stop misusing "cement." Just pretend that I'm neb, and that "cement" is "reason why."


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 7:36 AM
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Also, cement, concrete, brick, and stone make a house that lasts.

Hardwood is no concrete, but it too can be a component of a house that lasts. Contemporary McMansions fall apart because they're made of plaster, pergo, and a hearty fuck you to craftsmanship and care.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 7:37 AM
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And please, people, stop misusing "cement."

Yes! I'm extra sorry, because I really do know the difference.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 7:38 AM
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Just pretend that I'm neb, and that "cement" is "reason why."

"reason is because"


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 7:38 AM
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And why are 3 of 7 interior pics of the same (OK, but not great) room?

One can only imagine how much the others must suck. I noticed that there weren't any of the front-facing upstairs rooms. How dreadful must they be!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 7:40 AM
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277: I remember once in church that the reading actually put "reason why" into Jesus' mouth. I could see my mother visibly tense. As she said later, He would never have said such a thing.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 7:53 AM
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275 is correct in all particulars.

The house my ex and I bought was built in 1888. It had been remodelled, but the structural timbers were in excellent shape (and some of them showed marks from an adze, which is cool). Also the original layout made a lot of sense.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 7:59 AM
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If anyone would like, I'm willing to hit any and all structural timbers in a house with an adze. Or a chainsaw. $50 + expenses.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 8:10 AM
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I've never bought a house that was less than 100 years old (bought three in all). Never had any structural problems with any of them.


Posted by: OFE | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 8:17 AM
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I thought sidewalks and pebbly things were concrete, and smooth floors were cement. Either way, you will wreck your skeleton living on it.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 8:17 AM
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283: Yes. In my broke years, I worked in a cement floored building. My back and legs ached like crazy. You are not built to walk on something that hard for long periods of time. I won't even put real tile in a kitchen, because if I have to cook for long periods of time, it hurts.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 8:22 AM
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Around here there are buildings built from wood that are older than God. There's no reason to build from concrete just to make a house that lasts.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 8:27 AM
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Concrete doesn't last that well - and it looks horrible once it's aged. Stone, man, stone's the stuff to use/To give your cities nicer views/ And Milk did less than masons can/ To make a livable San Fran.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 8:31 AM
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re: 286

There are 2000 year old concrete buildings of course, but yeah, modern concrete ages like shite.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 8:40 AM
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285: The problem in the US is that the standard level of quality for a wood framed house is total crap. You can build an excellent house out of wood, but you need to be willing to pay through the nose. Brick, stone, and cement are expensive, but not as expensive as quality wood construction. Some wood framed houses built today feel to me more like tents than houses.

Of course, my ideal house would be built to nuclear bunker standards, so I'm not the best judge of these things.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 8:40 AM
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288: That is basically rant #6 from my father-in-law. #6 refers to frequency of use. It used to be #1, but then he finished building his house. Everywhere you code called for a 2x4, he put in a 2x8 and so on.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:13 AM
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Strike 'you'.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:14 AM
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Yeah, I hate concrete floors. Stone, brick, tile, hardwood, those are all great, but concrete combines both skeleton-wrecking and ugliness, no matter what color you stain it. And that house is indeed horrible.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:14 AM
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I have brick floors upstairs and down in my house. They are very pretty, do great as passive solar, and upped the value of the house significantly when we got it appraised recently.

They are, however, hell on the feet, even with rugs. And on the heads of my two children who learned to walk in the house. They often looked like they'd just gone three rounds in the Octagon. On the other hand, both kids are now tougher than nails and when they see other kids fall down and cry, they look at them like they're defective. "Walk it off" is the family motto.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:24 AM
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both kids are now tougher than nails

The four year old watches movies that Ari wouldn't show a six year old.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:31 AM
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Around here there are buildings built from wood that are older than God. There's no reason to build from concrete just to make a house that lasts.

Except, of course, that the wood has to come from somewhere.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:31 AM
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Oh, and concrete just grows on trees?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:32 AM
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No, it comes out of recta.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:33 AM
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I thought sidewalks and pebbly things were concrete, and smooth floors were cement.

That's a nice heuristic, but wrong. Cement (Portland cement, technically) is the stuff between the pebbles. Smooth floors are troweled such that the cement is what you see, but cement without aggregate is weak and crumbly.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:33 AM
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Interestingly, the material commonly known as asphalt (or blacktop) is technically called bituminous concrete, as it is aggregate held together not by cement, but by bitumen (tar).

I'm sorry, did I say "interestingly"? I meant, "dully."


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:36 AM
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For smooth floors, wouldn't you use sand for the aggregate instead of pebbles. They you do something fancy when you float it to get the surface smooth. Finishing concrete is a kind of an art from what I've seen of it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:36 AM
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You're weak and crumbly.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:36 AM
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"Walk it off" is the family motto.

Comments 63 and 73.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:36 AM
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So concrete is like a colloid?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:38 AM
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297 is right. You use pure cements for is masonary work and the like. By itself, it has no structural strength and will crumble. So you use it to stick other things together, whether bricks or various sized aggregates.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:38 AM
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302: yes.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:39 AM
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Tarmac, over here. One of many Scottish inventions.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:41 AM
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"Macadam" is an awesome word.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:43 AM
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305: This made me wonder why in the US one hears "tarmac" only in reference to airports. Luckily, Wikipedia knows everything.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:45 AM
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305: tarmac was done by a welsh guy. modified macadam, done by a scot. (which modified an age old process)

Asphalt isn't quite the same thing, but rather a similar process using petroleum products to replace the bitumous tar that gives tarmac it's name.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:46 AM
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Someone should develop a sort of chocolate fudge nut ice cream (or possibly some sort of cake) called "Tarmacadamia".


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:47 AM
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309: it should emerge from the hallowed halls of tarmacademia.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:48 AM
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I'd like some tarmac-n-cheese.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:52 AM
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For smooth floors, wouldn't you use sand for the aggregate instead of pebbles. They you do something fancy when you float it to get the surface smooth.

No, the trick with the float (it's actually the material - steel vs. magnesium vs. wood all get you different textures) does it all - you can't make sturdy concrete without large-ish aggregate.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 9:58 AM
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307: Very interesting. Also interesting to learn that the tar & chips treatment is related. I never saw it before moving here, where the signs always call it "oil & chips," which makes me think of a tasty snack. But having my windshield cracked isn't a treat at all.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:03 AM
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What if you use re-bar?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:03 AM
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I never saw it before moving here, where the signs always call it "oil & chips," which makes me think of a tasty snack. But having my windshield cracked isn't a treat at all.

Sounds as if you have a "Modern Construction" column in the works!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:04 AM
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What if you use re-bar?

rebar is mostly to keep the cracks under control.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:07 AM
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Oh, like belts.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:08 AM
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The image of a grab bag of shits is beginning to wear me down, here.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:23 AM
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Sounds like someone's ratio of shits-to-giggles is off.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:24 AM
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Wire mesh ("welded wire fabric", or WWF) is what helps lightweight concrete slabs resist cracking (although concrete inevitably shrinks and cracks regardless, which is why you incise control joints every 4' or so). Rebar is used in heavier construction, and provides strength in tension - without it, concrete would be useless under any stresses other than pure compression - think wood blocks with no glue or nails.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:24 AM
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God, I'm being dull.

My license for a cock joke!


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:25 AM
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My father the architect claims that currently available wood is a very different and inferior structural material from the wood used in older buildings -- even for the same species of tree and same dimension of timber, that it's reliably far, far less strong. I can't remember if he explained why this is the case; maybe that it's harvested from smaller, younger trees?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:27 AM
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wire mesh is also for cracking, yes.

But my understanding is that rebar plays a lot of that role for heavier slapbs, as well as adding a bit (not a huge amount) of tensile strength. On laying big slabs you might use light mesh to keep the surface under control, but they won't stop large cracking. As you say, it's going to crack anyway (for one thing, concrete hydrates for about 50 years), but you want to keep it from getting out of hand.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:31 AM
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re: 322

I'd imagine there's less old growth timber around. But I notice whenever I watch house-building telly programs [of which the UK has several] that pepole still seem to able to get hold of whacking great oak beams, so someone must be cutting it.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:32 AM
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322: There is a real dearth of old growth timber. You dan buy it, but it's very expensive.

Most of the problem is that the business model has changed. Houses are being built for 20 year lifespans now, minimizing build out and material costs for large volumes.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:33 AM
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324: I'd heard that the old growth wood was stronger because the rings on the tree are much smaller because the trees grew much slower because there were a shitload of other trees competing for the same sun/nutrient/water resources. I have no idea if this is true or not. I've also heard carpenters making specific complaints about the number of knots in the wood these days, which would probably have more to do with using smaller trees (per 322).


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:35 AM
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322: I can't remember if he explained why this is the case; maybe that it's harvested from smaller, younger trees?

They used to make houses out of much older pine, but they also tend to lathe it with wood (and then plastered that). A boxed in frame is much stronger than just a plain frame. Additionally, they have switched to these very lightweight (presumably young pine) compound 2x4's, which are practically like balsa wood.

max
['But that's a 90's thing.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:36 AM
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324: I'm repeating what Dad says without knowledge of my own, but he's saying that dimension for dimension, currently available timber is weak. Possibly even those larger timbers come from smaller trees than they would have in the past (e.g., a 12x12 would in the past have come from a log big enough to be cut into a number of 12x12s, but now comes one to a log)? Or maybe the issue isn't the size of the tree, but something about growing conditions -- that timber now comes from farmed trees that grow faster and are therefore weaker?

Or Dad's smoking crack. Which is always a possibility.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:36 AM
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326 is about right. Comparing the lumber in an old house to most of what you can get today will make you cry. When my dad worked in the woods as a young man, they were sending out some loads of just one or two logs. Now you see loads of the most God-awful little pecker poles going down the road, and up in BC you'll see loads of pine with three courses of little dinky logs.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:43 AM
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Or Dad's smoking crack.

I don't think he's wrong; it depends on exactly what he's referring to. You can grow a tree really fast with lots of water and fertilizer. That's going to result in wide ring spacing, which is going be less dense, aggravated by cutting the tree down when it gets just large enough, so no compression. Less cellulose + more water is going to result in weaker wood, especially once you sweat the water out.

max
['Same with other plants.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:48 AM
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You can grow a tree really fast with lots of water and fertilizer. manual spacing, even.

You can still sometimes get beams from demolition of old industrial areas. Sawmills will fight each other for them. These days all the comparable trees are either gone, or really difficult to get out cost effectively.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:52 AM
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Plus, I understand, it used to be standard practice to kiln-dry wood before using it for construction - this was expensive but it meant the wood wouldn't dry and weaken or shrink once it was in the house. This isn't done so much now.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 10:52 AM
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I'd be surprised if you were allowed to cut down many of the UK's oaks - a lot of them are covered by planning permission-like restrictions. As those TV show projects are usually conversion or renovation rather than new construction, I wouldn't be surprised if the beams are either original ("let's expose these lovely traditional beams" - and lacquer them in really horrible chemicals to be compliant with fire regulations) or else salvage - not that anyone gets to knock down a church or a manor for the beams, but there are plenty of farm and industrial buildings that bite the dust. Come to think of it, renovation is really "in-situ recycling"...

We have all kinds of horror stories about chunks of national monuments that turn up in salvage; I remember the guy in Bradford who got caught removing whole cobbled streets, flagstones and dry-stone walls. Eventually the cops stopped him because they thought his car was dangerously unroadworthy, being so low at the back - it was a Peugeot 205 and most of some village's main street was piled neatly under the hatchback.

Given the class relations involved, the prosecutor probably had at least one lintel in his own house.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 11:29 AM
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319: Sounds like someone's ratio of shits-to-giggles is off.

Sounds like someone's got a case of the Tuesdays.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 1:10 PM
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We have all kinds of horror stories about chunks of national monuments that turn up in salvage

If you paddle around the meadowlands of NJ, you can still find sculpture from the late, lamented Penn Station half-buried in the muck.

I'd be surprised if you were allowed to cut down many of the UK's oaks - a lot of them are covered by planning permission-like restrictions

A story that green architects like to tell is that some great hall was built in Oxford (or wherever) using 300-y.o. oak beams, and the person in charge had a replacement forest planted, so that equal wood would be available when the need arose.

My understanding is that this is not, actually, an urban legend, but it may as well be.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 1:59 PM
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I don't run in architect-circles, but I've also heard that Oxford story. The way I heard it was that Oxford called a timber company and the response was something like, "Yes, the order was placed in 1542..."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 2:07 PM
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The canonical version is in Stewart Brand's How Buildings Learn. Obviously drivel, at the time the college hall was built we were felling whole forests of oaks to turn them into a navy. And them we came for everyone else's !


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 2:28 PM
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And them we came for everyone else's !

Indeed. People totally underestimate the importance of America's forests to the English. All those beautiful masts, just waiting to be taken.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 3:03 PM
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When Thoreau visited the Maine Woods, they looked more or less intact - except all the white pines were gone.

337: I had a feeling it was Brand. Anti-architect prick.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 3:09 PM
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All those beautiful masts, just waiting to be taken ATM.

321 answered at last.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 3:10 PM
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339: Bussing?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 3:13 PM
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Brand was retelling a story told by Bateson. Originally in CQ/WEQ.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 07-28-09 4:57 PM
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People totally underestimate the importance of America's forests to the English. All those beautiful masts, just waiting to be taken.

I thought that the 18th century Royal Navy got its masts (along with lots of other supplies) from Scandinavia? Maybe that was only after American independence.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-29-09 2:16 AM
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America, prior to independence. White pine was, afaik, (one of) the most highly desirable commodity(ies) that New England produced for awhile. Then, you know, they ran out.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 07-29-09 2:42 AM
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FWIW, I live next to 500 acres of old-growth deciduous forest,* and they definitely still log that. The wood is managed, and I don't think they take out much timber each year, but they do cut it and there is a sawmill in the woods.

http://tinyurl.com/bagwood

* it's in the Doomsday Book, and mentioned in chronicles back to 900AD or so.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 07-29-09 4:05 AM
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In fact everywhere they could get them. America, Scandinavia, Russia. Mast timbers in England were more or less gone by the beginning of the 17th century, and it was a huge political, military and commercial problem for the whole period. There are those who argue that shipping timbers were as important in driving the growth of trade as textiles and all the usual suspects.


Posted by: OFE | Link to this comment | 07-29-09 4:11 AM
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Hey, we launched not one but two mammoth, pre-emptive attacks on Denmark just because they *considered* restricting the export of naval stores from the Baltic. Including, in the second in 1807, bombarding, besieging, and eventually occupying Copenhagen.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 07-29-09 4:41 AM
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Nowadays, there would be an Organisation of Timber Exporting Countries.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-29-09 5:23 AM
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The government would be encouraging Lutheranophobic hysteria at home while calmly selling advanced aeronautical technology to the dirty blonde herring eaters on the quiet.


Posted by: OFE | Link to this comment | 07-29-09 5:31 AM
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Heh at 349.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 07-29-09 5:31 AM
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No blood for boles.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-29-09 5:36 AM
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When I saw my first old growth clearcut in the PNW my first thought (after getting over the shock) was that it'd be really interesting to try coppicing old growth trees. The root systems are huge. Unfortunately I think you have to start with young trees, and the it's probably limited to only certain species.

I recommend visiting an old growth clearcut sometime, preferably five years or so after the cut, to give the weather a chance to wash away the forest floor. The visceral punch in the gut from walking out of the cathedral-like atmosphere of the primeval forest into the wasteland of bleached stumps with roots grasping at rough exposed stone is really incredible. It makes me somewhat more sympathetic to Earth First! types. Sympathetic enough to respect the exclamation mark in the name, at least.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 07-29-09 8:28 AM
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