Re: That Quizno Fellow

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hey, where is everybody? it's not like it's three in the morning or something...
I still have jet lag and the afternoon is the dark night of the soul, still. I guess no one ever moves terminally ill people across a lot of time zones, but I guess they'd die at 4am origin time regardless.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 12:53 AM
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I feel like this is a common thing for women to do. See: Jemaine from Flight of the Conchords. Every woman thinks he's hot, and yet every woman thinks all other women would prefer the other guy from Flight of the Conchords. I've asked Blume about this, but was unsatisfied with her answer.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 1:37 AM
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maybe because we think we're all so special with our special aesthetic sensibilities that are all unique and shit? then again, I think jemaine from flight of the conchords is pretty hot too. what's in his dungarees makes me hungry.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 1:44 AM
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but is there some class of hot chick that guys think they are the only ones to like?


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 1:45 AM
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Dark night of the soul is watching some firecritter novie in Syfy. Xander from Buffy has 4th billing.
Tried some drugs to sleep, weak valium, weak vicodin, dextromethorphan. Pacino Insomnia is on one of the HBOs. Sucked bad compared to the original. Maybe there's a poker game.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 1:54 AM
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4: an interesting question. I bet there is, and I bet it has something to do with looking kind of bookish and vaguely indie.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 1:54 AM
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4:Amy Acker with glasses? I am scared to play, fear of sexism.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 1:57 AM
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yeah, that sucks bob, sorry. you're sure as hell right about the pacino insomnia. I like to make hot milk with sugar, nutmeg, and cayenne pepper. crazy but good.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 1:58 AM
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6:Small minds apparently think alike.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 1:58 AM
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8:I'm used to it.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 2:01 AM
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re: 6

Possibly, although the hot indie chick is also something of a cliché.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 2:03 AM
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11: I argue that thinking dudes with big, weird features are hot is also a cliché. Starting... now!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 2:07 AM
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yeah I mean, "I like natalie portman but no one else is likely to appreciate her elfin beauty"? not very plausible. I think there is just a wider range within which guys can be considered hot enough to make it in mainstream entertainment.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 2:09 AM
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I bet there's girls in bands that are in the category.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 2:11 AM
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yeah, for sure. I myself have gone full metal quirky with a pixie! cut!, I should put up a picture.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 2:15 AM
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14: jenny lewis of rilo kiley, howbout.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 2:23 AM
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Seems likely.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 2:25 AM
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but is there some class of hot chick that guys think they are the only ones to like?

I think this happens more with women in real life. Because yeah, any woman in the public eye is already going to have been dissected in terms of hotness.

I think it comes up with women who are beautiful, but maybe don't fall into some sort of 'generic hot girl' category (highly dependent on the guy's idea of that).

An ex of mine used to be bad about this in a way that drove me crazy. "You know, I think Soandso is actually really pretty." Said in this introspective, slightly proud of himself for thinking of it voice. No shit dumbass, she's fucking gorgeous.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 2:26 AM
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re: 16

But she's very attractive, by any standard. Quirky or not.

There's a British/Spanish film of about 10 years ago in which Penelop Cruz plays a bookish waitress, complete with thick black spectacles. Spectacles or not, she's radiating hot in a way that fools no-one.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 2:26 AM
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You know, I think Blume is actually really pretty.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 2:36 AM
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ah the old glasses routine. like hepburn in funny face. or the most awesome ever in how to marry a millionaire, when this nebbishy guy comes across as a paragon of wonderfulness because he can see that a women in cat's eye glasses is actually not bad looking. and that woman is...marilyn monroe.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 2:36 AM
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20: hey wow I never really thought of her like that but...yeah, totally hot. can't imagine how it escaped my notice all this time.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 2:37 AM
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22 - You just didn't want to objectivize her, because you're a feminist.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 5:49 AM
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I am definitely in the camp of Jemaine/Quinto/etc admirers, and I fully confess to having the same slight surprise when it turns out that the objects of my affections are generally agreed to be giant hotties. And yet at the same time there are legions of women who prefer, say, Orlando Bloom.

The glasses routine is truly farcical. One movie that actually did a pretty decent job of making the beautiful woman look genuinely dumpy pre-transformation was Simply Ballroom, I thought.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 5:54 AM
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Strictly, that would be.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 5:59 AM
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These seems related to a discussion I had at a bar about "creepy hot". Like, James Spader is hot, right? But the hotness comes through his weird intensity, which suggests he's about to snap. Who are the female celebrity versions of this? Rfts came up with Hand that Rocks the Cradle-era Rebecca de Mornay, but when other names being bandied about by the crowd are such people as the stunning Rose McGowan and Mallory Knox-style Juliette Lewis, it suggests that the phenomenon doesn't map well onto women.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 6:07 AM
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Hey, I totally liked the Ally Sheedy character in The Breakfast Club better before the makeover. Thanks, feminism.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 6:14 AM
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cf closing scenes of all versions of Beauty and the Beast: when still a beast, he is HOTTTl when he takes off his indie glasses and shakes out his hair becomes a prince = LAME!

Everyone knows this -- yes, I'm looking at you, Jean so-called Cocteau -- but no one does anything about it.

WAKE UP, IT'S A FURRY WORLD!


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 6:28 AM
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I can't think of specific examples, but I've had the opposite experience with famous men -- I mention someone who I think is uncontroversially hot, and am told that he's obviously unattractive. I think the demographic I hang out with is supposed to find pretty men offputting, and I missed the memo.

Quinto is dreamy, admittedly, although creepy enough in Heroes that it took me a while to get past that.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 6:35 AM
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But she's very attractive, by any standard.

Indeed. Maybe Kim Gordon is a better example?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 6:37 AM
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re: 26

PJ Harvey. Who seems to enjoy (intentionally) flipping her image between totally unambiguously hot and creepy/weird (yet hot).


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 6:38 AM
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26: Catherine Keener? But I am probably just being overly influenced by her role as Maxine in Being JM. Which of course also had the dowdy Cameron Diaz thing going on.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 6:41 AM
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Hmm, this *is* harder with women than with men. I always though Ed Harris was idiosyncratically hott, but then I've had bunches of women reply, "Oh yeah, Ed Harris, mmm" so it shows how much I know.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 6:45 AM
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I don't think there's supposed to be any ambiguity over Keener's attractiveness in BJM, just as there's no doubt over Linda Fiorentino in The Last Seduction. In both cases the poor sap who gets involved with them does so arguably against their best interest precisely because they are obviously attractive [and strong/dominating, etc.]. That type of character is such a movie archetype there's a handy term (femme fatale) for it.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 6:50 AM
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PJ Harvey. Who seems to enjoy (intentionally) flipping her image between totally unambiguously hot and creepy/weird (yet hot).

Ooh, good one!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 6:52 AM
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Not to rehash old battles, but isn't "creepy hot" hard to find for celebrity women because it's so rare that a woman who isn't unambiguously smokin' is famous? The Spader thing is about a fairly ordinary looking guy who stands out from the pool of other ordinary looking actors because of something disturbing about his affect -- there isn't a pool of 'ordinary looking' actresses for one to stand out from in the same way.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 6:56 AM
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re: 36

Nah, I can think of loads. They are just usually not 'leading ladies' in American made movies. But in other cinema, or as character actors in US movies, loads. Joan Cusack, etc.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:00 AM
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34: Hmm, maybe I don't understand the question, since I also don't think there is any ambiguity over the base-level James Spader's attractiveness. (On preview maybe there is.)

And also on preview, LB is exactly right on why it is hard to do it for women. Other than a few random Kathy Bates/ Rosie O'Donnells, all the other well-known actresses have passed through a stringent attractiveness filter long ago. Musicians probably are a more likely pool.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:01 AM
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Not to rehash old battles, but isn't "creepy hot" hard to find for celebrity women because it's so rare that a woman who isn't unambiguously smokin' is famous?

This is also true! But I can't even think of a smoking hot female celebrity who uses "creepy affect" as part of her schtick. (Billy Bob Throton-blood-in-a-vial era Angelina Jolie? Rose McGowan, for all that she dated Marilyn Manson and has tattoos, seems to be rocking more of a pin-up girl vibe than being the American Jarboe*.)

* This comparison ruined by the fact that I just googled, and Jarboe is American, not English like I thought. Damn it.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:02 AM
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FWIW, most of the male actors who are creepy/attractive, weird/attractive aren't leading men, either.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:04 AM
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There's Rossy de Palma, who BitchPhD thinks is gorgeous (but B's neither a guy nor correct).


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:05 AM
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41: That's funny -- I would have thought so too. Odd looking, but hot. No?

Ellen Barkin, for weirdish looking but attractive through intensity?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:07 AM
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Another guy who does creepy-hot well, in my opinion, is Peter Sarsgaard. He's not weird, he just brings a sexxxily off/menacing note that makes him way way hotter than he'd be otherwise.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:08 AM
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James Spader was a good-looking guy when he was young, though. Now if you had a thing for Willem Dafoe, say...


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:09 AM
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hot. No?

Not by my lights, but the gusty bus.

Ellen Barkin

Hmm, Ellen Barkin has spent long spells on my oh-god-she's-hot list.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:11 AM
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Ellen Barkin may be rendered more attractive via intensity, but she's not creepy-hot, she's just hot. Maybe I think this because I always think of her in The Big Easy, where she spends a lot of time being clumsy, smart, and adorable.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:12 AM
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James Spader was a good-looking guy when he was young, though.

He was! There's still (I think) a central element of "mmm, he's totally going to date rape you" in his appeal. (Apologies for the patently antifeminist implications of describing this as an "appeal.")


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:14 AM
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Rossy de Palma exhibiting how the camera is not always your friend. (Of course for many of us, it is never our friend.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:15 AM
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re: 44

I know women who find Willem Dafoe very attractive.

re: female stars

A lot of famous movie beauties are a bit weird looking, though. Having something slightly odd about the appearance rather than just being totally bland is a big part of it. Still conventionally attractive, but what pushes them into being preternaturally hot is often something slightly odd on top of that.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:16 AM
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47: I loved James Spader so much in the late 80s.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:17 AM
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49: Ron Perlman?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:17 AM
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I once read an article about Ellen Barkin that featured a Hollywood exec calling her the "the most attractive ugly woman in movies". Oh Hollywood.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:18 AM
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Part of Ellen Barkin's appeal is that even when she hasn't been wearing glasses, she looks like she's just taken off her glasses.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:19 AM
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See: Jemaine from Flight of the Conchords. Every woman thinks he's hot, and yet every woman thinks all other women would prefer the other guy from Flight of the Conchords.

Jemaine irritates the hell out of me. I prefer the other guy, but really I don't enjoy the show very much.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:24 AM
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ah the old glasses routine. like hepburn in funny face. or the most awesome ever in how to marry a millionaire, when this nebbishy guy comes across as a paragon of wonderfulness because he can see that a women in cat's eye glasses is actually not bad looking. and that woman is...marilyn monroe.

I didn't realize how hot Ally Sheedy was in Breakfast Club until she shook dandruff all over her drawing.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:26 AM
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always though Ed Harris was idiosyncratically hott, but then I've had bunches of women reply, "Oh yeah, Ed Harris, mmm" so it shows how much I know.

This comment is way confusing if you thing Ed Harris is the dad from Married w/ Children.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:29 AM
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Lets see what happens:

I think Sarah Vowel is hot, but I don't think other guys would appreciate her beauty.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:34 AM
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Eddie Harris? Totally hot, I'd have thought.


Posted by: OFE | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:36 AM
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11: I argue that thinking dudes with big, weird features are hot is also a cliché. Starting... now!

I think this is correct, actually. Clive Owen, and the new Bond, certainly their careers are made on this premise.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:36 AM
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I adore Sarah Vowel, but I don't find her hot, and woudn't expect many guys to.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:39 AM
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I am an idiot -- I read Rossi de Palma as Portia de Rossi.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:39 AM
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61: me too.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:39 AM
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Maybe Zoe Deschanel as someone who people think they're the only one who noticed she's hot? Prior to 500 days, at least.

I totally, totally love her in Weeds.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:43 AM
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I really love Will Arnett a lot.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:46 AM
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61, 62: That would change the equation significantly.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:47 AM
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Whoopi Goldberg.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:08 AM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:24 AM
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You know who was really, really good-looking? I mean, so beautiful that darkness never dared touch her and the sight of her restored one's faith in a kind and loving God? This girl I Grace Kelly.

Yeah, I said it.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:25 AM
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4: Alyson Hannigan, probably.


Posted by: paranoid android | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:40 AM
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I can't think of specific examples, but I've had the opposite experience with famous men -- I mention someone who I think is uncontroversially hot, and am told that he's obviously unattractive. I think the demographic I hang out with is supposed to find pretty men offputting, and I missed the memo.

Exactly! Everyone I think is breathtakingly lovely looks--so I am assured--like a troll. I won't even tell you about my existing and impossible crush, the one even I can tell is gangly and long-jawed. But wonderful pretty! I can usually tell when people are conventionally hot, but I can't really tell the difference between them and ugly people. Usually I spend all my time wondering whether I should bother to ask out my crushes because they're so amazingly out of my league and good-looking.

I believe I have mentioned before the dazzling beauty of Todd Solondz, right?

James Baldwin, too, was a marvelously attractive fellow, even if not so much one for the ladies.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:41 AM
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Sarah Vowell totally fits in the category my friends used to call "pixie-ass" (with admiration). Nevertheless, I suspect there are, um, circumstances under which her voice might be a deal-breaker...


Posted by: Rah | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:41 AM
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It's very simple: Quinto is a CMU grad, and therefore irresistible to women. QED.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:46 AM
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70: God damn it, I only meant to cut and paste the first part of that. That's what I get for posting while cooking--and unevenly browned onions, too.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:46 AM
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I can usually tell when people are conventionally hot, but I can't really tell the difference between them and ugly people.

Isn't this more or less the Old Style Unfogged claim by the men about (in)ability to identify attractiveness in other men?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:47 AM
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her voice might be a deal-breaker...

Or a bonus! Sexiness is all about turning flaws into virtues.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:49 AM
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Actually, that's what you get for cooking onions before 10 in the morning.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:51 AM
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74: It might be, except that what I meant is that when the object of my sadly unrequited affections sits next to the object of most-of-the-straight-women-in-the-collective's-affections, the direct comparison doesn't really have much meaning for me. I remember very clearly thinking to myself at a recent meeting that I was interested in someone very much out of my league because he was obviously just as good-looking as Handsome Leftist....then I went and chatted idly with a friend who confirmed that no, he wasn't.

I'm not sure why I'm not interested in Handsome Leftist, since I suppose I perceive him as pretty similar to the Object. My unconscious snob, I imagine. I too am a special snowflake!


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:55 AM
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76: I love the smell of onions in the morning! Actually, I'm doing my breakfasts-and-lunches cooking for the week so I'll have things to take to work. Thus, I am not only cooking onions but also potatoes, chickpeas and eggplant.

Chocolates for breakfast, however.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:57 AM
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Personally, I like the illusion of knowing someone a bit, so Beth Orton, Nanci Griffith, Suzanne Vega, Natalie Merchant, Jhumpa Lahiri, Queen Latifah.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:05 AM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:05 AM
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63, 69: Really? Zooey Deschanel and Alyson Hannigan as women most guys think only they find hot? I can't imagine them not being in the 'unambiguously hot' category.

I find Sarah Vowell appealing, but not "hot", per se.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:28 AM
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It's kind of disturbing, now that I think about, how many female musicians are hot. Are there legions of hyper-talented women musicians out there who don't get any recognition because of their plain looks?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:30 AM
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I think ZQ is repellent looks-wise and I don't think I've met any other gay guys who think he's hot either. I wonder if there's anything to that, besides the standard "girls are weird" thing.

I also used to find Ellen Barkin actively ugly although now that she's playing older, non-sexpot roles (or sexpot-with-substance) I find I like her better. I suspect this may mean something bad about me.

Grace Kelly: oh yes.
Ladies who like Willem Dafoe: see "girls are weird," above.


Posted by: piminnowcheez | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:36 AM
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82: You are forgetting the magic power of rock and roll to turn ugly people sexy. If it worked for Mick Jagger, it can easily work for Donita Sparks.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:44 AM
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Nah, I can think of loads. They are just usually not 'leading ladies' in American-made movies.

Right. RFTS mentions Strictly Ballroom, a terrific example...and an Australian movie, IIRC. I also would have put Rachel Griffiths in this category back when I saw Me Myself I -- again, not an American movie -- but she's subsequently been cast in HBO's Six Feet Under. I don't have a sense of how likely straight guys are to find her attractive, though.

I did get some funny looks for saying Benicio del Toro was hot in Traffic, but I think he's moved firmly into the mainstream leading man category in the public eye now.

On an unrelated note, I saw Cool Hand Luke the other night. Surprising to find out that Paul Newman was 42 when he made that movie. He looks boyishly, gorgously early-30s at most.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:45 AM
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Now if you had a thing for Willem Dafoe, say...

Huh? Willem Dafoe is totally hot.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:48 AM
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Rachel Griffiths is seriously, seriously, hot. Also, Lauren Ambrose.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:51 AM
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Are there legions of hyper-talented women musicians out there who don't get any recognition because of their plain looks?

Yes, for absolutely certain. I have also always suspected that the major reason that Mandy Barnett's extraordinary voice didn't break through to the big time was that she's lovely, but too curvaceous for the studios to think will sell.

(I'm not even sure she's fat, as the term is commonly understood -- the PR photos are pretty carefully cropped. I'm just going off of seeing her perform once years ago.)


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:53 AM
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Surprising to find out that Paul Newman was 42

That is surprising. Damn.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:56 AM
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Sorry, that should be: I'm not sure she's even fat, as the term is commonly understood.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:57 AM
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87: I've seen Lauren Ambrose at my local bookstore. She is kind of short and baby-faced, but her hair really is that shade of red it looks on television.

Sigourney Weaver is a lovely, fine-boned woman, but so tall that I am surprised that Hollywood's legions of short, balding, troll-like executive misogynists ever allowed her to work in movies.

Mila Kunis' complexion is not the rose-petal that it looks onscreen, if my girlfriend-at-the-time's snort of derision is anything to go by.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:59 AM
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88: Yes and no: there are surely women whom the big record companies dismiss as not pretty enough for mainstream success, but there are also odd-looking women who are successful musicians that we think of as hot, not odd-looking, because they're presented as such (and because of charisma, and the Mick Jagger thing). Regina Spektor and Susanna Hoffs come to mind. I'm not saying they're actually unattractive; I'm saying that their looks are not mainstream-pretty, but, thanks to makeup and image control, no one questions their hotness. Also, I don't think anyone would ascribe Iris Dement's opportunities to her beauty or her body.

All that said, I think there's no question that being conventionally-attractive helps women to musical success (or opportunity) to a far greater extent than for men. Great voice with a plain or ugly face? Maybe you can succeed. OK voice with a gorgeous face? Go ahead and schedule your Behind the Music episode now.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:07 AM
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Zooey Deschanel and Alyson Hannigan as women most guys think only they find hot? I can't imagine them not being in the 'unambiguously hot' category.

Alyson Hannigan: not hot. She's in the Sarah Vowell category for me. And I remember a photo shoot she did for Maxim after American Pie came out, where they did her up with the hair extensions and made her do the standard Maxim stuff; she looked ridiculous.

(I think my impression of her is heavily influenced by never having watched Buffy.)


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:11 AM
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82: Are there legions of hyper- just as talented as anyone else women musicians performers of all kinds out there who don't get any recognition because of their plain looks the luck of the draw?

Yes.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:13 AM
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Rachel Griffiths is seriously, seriously, hot.

Oh dear god no. (My opinion may be shaped by the various rumors I've heard of her dreadful personal hygiene.)


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:15 AM
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Also: few people have such ugly faces that professional makeup and lighting can't get them to at least "intriguing." But there's no disguising fat (not just heavy, but serious, can't-shop-in-most-clothing-stores fat), and you don't really see popular musicians of either sex who are fat (when they break in, anyway - Jerry Garcia was once slenderish).

I'm sure the standards are still different, but my point is that most male rockers are skinny (or buff) as well. Presumably all the heroin helps.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:16 AM
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Josh is just no fun at all, is he?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:16 AM
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Also, I wanted to say something like 94. There are simply too many people who want to be stars for there to be anything like a merit system. You've got a million people vying for like 100 spots. It's just going to be a fluke. Including the flukiness of true talent finding big success.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:20 AM
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96: you don't really see popular musicians of either sex who are fat

That's the goddamn truth. Any new band that features a fat singer will inevitably be compared by reviewers to Blues Traveller, regardless of what genre of music they play.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:22 AM
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I would say Alyson Hannigan is one of two famous actresses in the history of Hollywood who are not attractive. The other being of course Shelley Duvall.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:22 AM
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94 and 98 are obviously true; there's clearly a lot of randomness in determining success. But the dice are loaded by various things (talent, hard-working-ness, looks), and the question is whether the loading from looks outweighs the others.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:24 AM
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99: That's why some of us were so excited about local band Black Tie Revue. Note the fat lead singer standing behind another guy on the album cover.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:24 AM
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Maybe Zoe Deschanel as someone who people think they're the only one who noticed she's hot?

I think I'd probably pick either Lili Taylor (particularly since one of her early roles was as the "prize" in Dogfight) or Sara Rue (the one on the left, not the one on the right). Or maybe Ginnifer Goodwin, although that only works for her when she was on "Ed".


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:25 AM
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74: Old Style Unfogged, G. Heileman Brewing Co., LaCrosse, Wisconsin

Remember back in the bad old days when I said that I thought Nargis was one of the most beautiful women ever? And everyone was like "Eww! No, seriously dude, eww!"? That just seemed bizarre to me. She's beloved by hundreds of millions of people! I can see how she might not be to everyone's taste, but she's hardly an Alyson Hannigan in that respect.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:26 AM
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99: To be fair, that Blues Traveller guy was really, really fat, and Blues Traveller sucks.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:28 AM
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Kobe: we already had this argument.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:30 AM
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Didn't that Blues Traveller guy later lose a ton of weight, to the extent that he was practically unrecognizable? Or did they just get a new guy?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:30 AM
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Yep:

Popper later underwent gastric bypass surgery and lost a significant amount of weight.

He's also a libertarian. And it's "Blues Traveler," not "Blues Traveller."


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:34 AM
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Re: Zooey Deschanel

I don't think she's in the "nobody else knows she's hawt" category. Rather, there's a specific sub-genre of Hollywood faces that she fits into -- Winona Ryder, Rachel Leigh Cook, Rose McGowan, Parker Posey -- who are undeniably attractive, and who, as in the cases above, often do make it into lead actor spots, but who aren't marketed the same way as Julia Roberts or Sharon Stone or whoever. (Although there again, there's a sub-genre of redheads that Julia Roberts fits into along with Julianne Moore and Nicole Kidman, that is marketed somewhat differently than the blondes.)


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:36 AM
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Nellie McKay: Quirky enough to be not conventionally pretty, but also hyper-cute and hot. That said, I'd adore her even if she looked like Mick Jagger. Her resemblance to Blossom Dearie (who, bespectacled, could convincingly pull off the concealed-hotness librarian look) is striking.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:44 AM
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The Big Sleep is a feminist movie because it's obvious even before the hot bookstore clerk removes her glasses that she's hot.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:45 AM
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I'd adore her even if she looked like Mick Jagger

Let's face it, Mick Jagger would make an attractive woman.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:46 AM
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My entry in the category of women who use the "creepy affect" as part of their attractiveness is Helena Bonham Carter. Also, maybe Tilda Swinton.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:47 AM
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There's a clerk at a nearby hardware store who I have only now realized resembles Blossom Dearie, haircut, gigantic frames, weak chin and all. Sadly, I think she's spoken for.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:47 AM
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Further inspection reveals that B.D. didn't have a weak chin.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:48 AM
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I was going to suggest Amy Sedaris, on account of how she looks in that godawful show of hers, but nope, wildly pretty by any standard.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:57 AM
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114: Sadly, I think she's spoken for, and now what am I going to do with all these screwdrivers and socket wrenches?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:57 AM
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It's not just skinniness and whatnot that make for Hollywood-hot; right now it also seems to have to do with cheekbones. One of the reasons Alyson Hannigan does not seem like the regular kind of hot is that, although she has big eyes, a wide smile, and nice hair, she does not have prominent cheekbones, as far as I can tell. This also used to be true for Eliza Dushku, but then she got giant cheekbone implants. It's the thing, I guess, that separates girl-next-door hot from Hollywood-hot.

And yeah, I think generally we do tend to fantasize that by being attracted to people who are not the stereotypical beauties, we're expressing our individuality and stuff, even though we're all basically into the same second-stringers. Even at parties, I've noticed that it's not the prettiest boys who get attention; it's always the decent-looking guy who is a bit too thin, or a bit pudgy, or not dressed exactly right.

One of my friends is seeing one of those laughably beautiful boys who populate Brooklyn, and, poor guy, there's just not a thing he can do to get her to take him seriously. He's got an MA, plays pretty good music, tends bar in one of the best bars in the city, and has a very endearing southern accent. But my friend rolls her eyes in shame every time she speaks of him or we run into him. The first time I met him, she was all, "I know. Don't say it. I am well aware." She thought I was going to make fun of her for dating a beauty! No way, dude. Have at.

But this is all really just true for "our" set, I think. No one feels bad for the truly lovely because they do actually get a ton of tail. I think it's a certain population, many of us here included, who think they're somehow doing the world a favor by only being attracted to people with some quirky not-beautifulness.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:58 AM
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Let's face it, Mick Jagger would make an attractive woman.

He could just as easily make a perfectly hideous one.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:58 AM
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David Sedaris has a great story about how Amy liked to intentionally make herself ugly, and how this really freaked their father out. The high point comes when Amy wears only the bottom part of a fatsuit to a family gathering. She used same fatusit bottom look for her Strangers with Candy character.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:13 AM
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Wait, it's conventional wisdom that Alyson Hannigan is not hot?


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:13 AM
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Alyson Hannigan is [...] not attractive

That is crazy talk.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:13 AM
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Mick Jagger has made a few pretty attractive women.

Steven Tyler made a moderately attractive woman with no talent who nonetheless rocketed to stardom based on her insider status.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:13 AM
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Second-stringers? I'm glad that there's a hierarchy, supplied by Hollywood, and we all know our place in it. I'm actually the person of exactly median attractiveness in the United States, which is a position of awesome responsibility.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:16 AM
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Re: Cool Hand Luke, I watched that myself not too long ago and was struck by the cognitive dissonance I experienced upon seeing Paul Newman in his mid-life years. One the one hand, totally hot. One the other hand, disturbing resemblance to George W. Bush.


Posted by: dob | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:23 AM
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I think I may be the first one to have noticed Nico's beauty.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:23 AM
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Kristen Schaal?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:28 AM
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I think I may be the first one to have noticed Nico's beauty.

I think an earlier generation beat you to that, young pup (perhaps you're just quoting somebody, but wevs). Unless you were thinking of this Nico, in which case I suspect you'd still not be in the vanguard.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:38 AM
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But there's no disguising fat (not just heavy, but serious, can't-shop-in-most-clothing-stores fat), and you don't really see popular musicians of either sex who are fat

One swallow does not make a spring, but there's Beth Ditto. The Gossip are popular enough to count as "popular", right?


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:39 AM
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No, I was talking about the model.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:45 AM
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118: or a bit pudgy

So you're saying there's some truth to this article?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:45 AM
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Ugh, 125 just put an entirely new image in my head. Yuck.

Checking my other perceptions: The movie was a lot more brutal than its retelling in the popular imagination, right, dob? To me both the forced-eating contest and the "Failure to communicate" line are things that live on in pop culture in a much more lighthearted way than they actually appear in the movie.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:46 AM
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Jewlia Eisenberg is kind of heavy.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:46 AM
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||
Hey, I think I know who ogged's girlfriend is.
|>


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:53 AM
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132: Sorry about the image. I was curious if that was an idiosyncratic take or if others had noticed it as well.

I'm not sure that the pop culture takeaways are so much at odds with the movie. Certainly the movie has its brutal moments, but it's the curious mixture of levity, cruelty, and... pointlessness? that resonate with me. Those two scenes convey that perhaps as well as any other two in the movie.


Posted by: dob | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:56 AM
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Also, Alyson Hannigan is crazy hot. Buffy's costumers and directors were at the top of their game making her appear dowdy.


Posted by: dob | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:58 AM
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I'm still trying to figure out why alameida thinks a sandwich chain is HOTT.

"He's just a man," he said. "You'll see. He can do chilly and cerebral. But he's just a man." Mmm, chilly and cerebral.

You're just the kind of woman not gay German cannibals have been looking for all their lives.

I think it's a certain population, many of us here included, who think they're somehow doing the world a favor by only being attracted to people with some quirky not-beautifulness.

Please remove me from this mailing list.

max
['I have no idea what you guys are on about.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 12:00 PM
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Looks hot to me.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 12:03 PM
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135 - Pointlessness or maybe just impersonality, yeah. I've felt since I saw Cool Hand Luke that it and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest are occupying the same psychic space as a movie, but CHL is just much, much better (though overshadowed by not having a scenery-chewing Nicholson?).

Lookin' out the window? That's a paddlin'.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 12:10 PM
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I was actually disappointed by how conventional Alyson H. seems to look in person, in contrast to her Buffy and American Pie characters. But still much prettier than Angelina Jolie.


Posted by: paranoid android | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 12:12 PM
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140 is evidence that there are lunatics among us.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 12:20 PM
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Now that I remember who Rossy de Palma is, I am entirely uncertain about whether most men would find her attractive. But she's certainly interesting looking, and the first time I saw her (in Women on the Verge...) I thought, "Huh. Picasso was Spanish. Suddenly Cubism makes more sense."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 12:37 PM
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142: Not to put too fine a point on it...


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 12:45 PM
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Now that I remember who Rossy de Palma is, I am entirely uncertain about whether most men would find her attractive.

She's interesting to look at, and a compelling actress, but really, she's hideous. I suppose that can be sexy too.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 12:55 PM
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138: Gag.


Posted by: piminnowcheez | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 12:55 PM
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I suspect that after 144, several people who thought I was pleasant and sensitive probably now dislike me. Yay!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 12:57 PM
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146: Don't worry. We never thought you were pleasant and sensitive.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 1:03 PM
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143: Whoa.


Posted by: piminnowcheez | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 1:04 PM
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146: Don't worry. We never thought you were pleasant and sensitive.

Phew!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 2:16 PM
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You know who else has a weird nose? Rafael Nadal.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 2:30 PM
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A Google image search suggests that still photographs are not a good medium for Rossy de Palma. On film, I found her bewitching.

Oh, and did you people not even look at the video in 134?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 2:47 PM
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Oh, and did you people not even look at the video in 134?

I was just about to comment that it's hilarious that after all this time he's been gone, we're still playing That's Your Girlfriend! with ogged.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 2:49 PM
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I don't know what's weird about Nadal's nose, but he sure has a pretty everthing-else, damn.


Posted by: piminnowcheez | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 3:16 PM
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69 is exactly right, and the comment linked in 106 made a lot of things clear for me.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 3:48 PM
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69 is exactly right....

De gustibus, etc.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 4:09 PM
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I submit for your consideration Leslie Feist.


Posted by: johnston | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 4:54 PM
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Also: few people have such ugly faces that professional makeup and lighting can't get them to at least "intriguing." But there's no disguising fat

So true for pop music. Have you ever actually looked up close at Lady Gaga's face? Not attractive, though I don't think she's hideous. But she is a size 0, and is willing to show off all God gave her.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 6:59 PM
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155: 69 is a perfect example of a woman whom many boys think they're being original by saying they prefer, when in fact she conforms quite neatly to Hollywood standards of beauty. There will always be faces that don't warm your particular cockles, but there's nothing exceptional about her being one of them.

I find Lady Gaga's face wonderfully weird.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:12 PM
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The comment linked in 106 goes to a thread I don't think I ever read in its entirety. That's about when I first started commenting here, it turns out.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:12 PM
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I had to ask a girl I know, a couple of months, who Lady GaGa was. I feel old.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:55 PM
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A two-month-old is a good source of information about what's happening right now. What happened a minute ago, not so much.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 7:59 PM
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I find Lady Gaga's face wonderfully weird.

Me too. And I totally love her particular brand of attention grabbiness.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:02 PM
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Jesus McQueen is funny.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:05 PM
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I believe I have mentioned before the dazzling beauty of Todd Solondz, right?

Frowner, you are a unique soul.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:14 PM
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and the comment linked in 106 made a lot of things clear for me.

I would like to disclaim a number of the attitudes that people ascribed to me in that thread. I don't, in fact, think that finding Alyson Hannigan more attractive than Sarah Michelle Gellar is proof of anything other than the fact that tastes differ.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:14 PM
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And piminnowcheez (sp, whatever) in 145 is completely wrong that the link in 138 shows gagworthiness. Please. True, the guy looks like a male model, which would be off-putting in real life, but really, please.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:21 PM
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Video how-to for a glamor billboard. Sponsored by Dove.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:22 PM
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I feel funny. Anyway, this

Lady Gaga's face? Not attractive

mystifies me. Having just looked at numerous photos and a couple of videos, I don't see how her face is anything less than very attractive, even in a conventional sense. Is there another, unattractive Lady Gaga?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:25 PM
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Having gone back and reread the ottoman-humping portion of the thread linked in 106, I'll report without comment that I saw this yesterday and don't know quite what to make of it.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:34 PM
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anyone with the right combo of money and will can be hott; new york city is full of basically normal human women who are a) thin and b) wear great clothes*: teh hott.

*this comment is aware of its own sizism; in a world with better designers a) would be irrelevant.


Posted by: lurker | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:35 PM
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After browsing a few selects from Google Images, I can see what you're saying -- she looks conventionally pretty. In the Poker Face video, her bangs and makeup accentuate her nose. I found the whole mix a little disturbing and very compelling. But apparently it takes work.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:37 PM
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I don't see how her face is anything less than very attractive, even in a conventional sense

Hm, well, perhaps I'm wrong about that; I've only polled a few people, including myself.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:45 PM
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169: Daggering, no? All the videos I have seen (that an old roommate forced me to watch so we could discuss it) make it look like these are people who should have a lot more actual intercourse and stop hurting themselves.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:47 PM
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I'd never heard of Lady Gaga, but from Google Images, she's selling a package that meets the specifications, no?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:48 PM
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Hm. I just looked at the google image search for Lady GaGa, and I must admit that most of the top hits are not the images I'm used to seeing of her (which, I admit, primarily come from Go Fug Yourself). This is the primary image I had in mind.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:49 PM
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Daggering, no?

Ah ha! You know, I'd read (briefly) about daggering, and saw the video, but the two events were far enough apart temporally that I didn't connect the dots.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:50 PM
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I figured all the "broken penis" stuff would have sent it to your RSS feed.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:55 PM
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It did! It did!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 8:59 PM
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164: I'm a special snowflake! I'm a special snowflake!

No, really, what can I say? Todd Solondz is dazzlingly beautiful. He has exceptionally lovely eyes and a wide mouth and symmetrical features and a nice chin. Also a charmingly silly voice. And his face is very different in "I'm in public and in snark/media-dealing-with" mode and in attentive repose. His face is interesting, with lots of detail. All these smooth-faced celebrities, I think the main reason I don't find them attractive is that I feel like I've looked at them once and I've seen what there is to see; there's relatively little changeability or irregularity.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:11 PM
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He has a really nice mouth.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:17 PM
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I think there's a corollary to the "I'm doing the world a favor by affirming my attracting to the non-lead actress" that Frowner's getting at. For some of us the people that we're supposed to find attractive, are just not Our Thing. Cindy Crawford just always looked goofy rather than hott, so obviously we were special and/or defective in some way. These days, while eye will effortlessly grant that Angelina Jolie has stunning eyes and lips, My primary response to full-length pictures of her is, "Ouch, she's skinny."


Posted by: Jimmy Pongo | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:29 PM
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LB: Now that I remember who Rossy de Palma is

The cock jokes apparently... do not write themselves. I had no idea that was her name, never mind how many goddamn Aldomovar movies I've seen.

146: I suspect that after 144, several people who thought I was pleasant and sensitive probably now dislike me. Yay!

Heh. I don't find her attractive, but she is odd-looking. Not really hideous. (I've seen hideous - think dissicated Andean mummy but walks around.)

157: Not attractive, though I don't think she's hideous.

She seems reasonably cute. Not quite my type, I think. Hrmm. The ladeeyz of Unfogged seem to be down on women with large schnozes.

166: True, the guy looks like a male model, which would be off-putting in real life, but really, please.

I think the link in question should be translated as 'looks like neb'. And not sandwiches.

max
['Yep, Frowner wins.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:45 PM
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on women with large schnozes.

Maybe it is self-hatred. Mine isn't exactly small.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:47 PM
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I think the link in question should be translated as 'looks like neb'

Really? That doesn't look like neb at all. But you said it's in translation. I dunno, and have no idea what it has to do with sandwiches.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 9:55 PM
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If I looked like that, surely none of my present problems would trouble me.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:13 PM
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He only looks like that due to hundreds or thousands of dollars of consultancy, to do the hair and clothing just so, and so on. Plus working out 2 hours a day at least.

So that's all you need to do, neb.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:32 PM
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183: Maybe it is self-hatred. Mine isn't exactly small.

Other anecdata suggest that women are down on big noses, but also hate those tiny-nosed bitches.

184: Really? That doesn't look like neb at all.

Well, OK, the ideal neb. I was thinking about AWB's comment about cheekbones and how I am apparently (according to the machines!) a male version of Allessandra Ambrosio. But you know, not.

185: If I looked like that, surely none of my present problems would trouble me.

Sad to say, your present problems would be replaced with the Platonic ideals of your present problems, much like Quizno is perhaps the platonic ideal of the name Quinto.

max
['See. Post. Title. Also: sandwiches.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:34 PM
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I saw a picture of Lady Gaga without makeup a while back. She looked perfectly pleasant, but average. She has made a real commitment to makeup and wardrobe for her rock star look. She's doing some high-wire, reality-tv, mass-market version of Cindy Sherman's persona photos.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:40 PM
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This poor Zachary fellow, whose name I'd not known (though I knew him as evil mostly-bad by-the-way-also-sexy guy on Heroes) will forever now be known as Zach Quizno ... which shouldn't really harm his fortunes going forward, as they say.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:43 PM
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Plus working out 2 hours a day at least.

"Skinny hipster" isn't a build that requires that kind of routine.

http://media.photobucket.com/image/Zachary%20Quinto/squarehippies/zachary_quinto/zachary_quinto19.jpg


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 10:45 PM
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190: He looks more built than that in various scenes in Heroes. But you may be right: it's easier for guys to do than for women.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:04 PM
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pimiento, you are tripping.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:48 PM
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additionally, much as I love nosflow, that is not what he looks like.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-16-09 11:52 PM
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166: your spelling was perfect. your taste, flawed.

166 + 192: Homos, this is why you can't trust even your bestest girlfriends to set you up on blind dates.


Posted by: piminnowcheez | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:07 AM
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I think it's more like you can't let your best girlfriends set you up on blind dates unless they know what kind of guy you find hot. I had a friend who went only for these short, fireplug-shaped guys with porn staches whose appeal was a thousand times lost on me. nonetheless after a while I could reliably pick out random guys whom he would find cute.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:26 AM
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173-176-177: I hate knowing what this means. It's not your fault. It's not as if you linked.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 1:26 AM
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169 et seq. it creeps me out a bit that the video was made by four nerdy white dudes. Should it? I don't know. I do like the song, though.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 1:41 AM
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so not even looking up any of those links. it got sent to apo's broken penis rss feed! how much more warning would a person need?!


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 2:06 AM
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my husband submitted his tenure folder at the start of june 2008. we were supposed to know by this june at the very latest. they sent him a helpful system email update saying 'we've decided!' on july 31, but then they haven't told him what they decided. I am having a nervous breakdown. I can't even pay the girls school bills because I don't know if we're leaving in december or not, just one of about fifty billion decisions I can't make. I can't even replace my stolen iphone because I don't know whether to get the plan or not and don't want to shell out needlessly. they better fucking tell me soon or I am going to go postal on some unassuming dean.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 2:11 AM
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198: the video in 169 is certainly impressive in it's weirdness and level of craft. But yeah it's uh not the easiest dance craze to watch.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 2:21 AM
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Rossy de Palma may not be hot, but she's got a certain look down to the millimetre. A sort of exaggerated Renaissance beauty look. I'd argue she's beautiful without much hesitation.


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 4:24 AM
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alameida, that totally sucks. The delay past June I sort of understand, but if they've decided why the fuck can't they just tell you?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 5:14 AM
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I'd argue she's beautiful without much hesitation.

Maybe you just like arguing.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 5:48 AM
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FWIW, alameida, I would interpret an e-mail like that one as "We aren't authorized to tell you the decision because there are various bureaucratic hurdles yet to clear, but the answer is 'approved'. We thought you would appreciate being tipped off in advance so that you can get on with your life."


Posted by: pain perdu | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 6:28 AM
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Apo, you appear to have linked to a photo of Hunter S Thompson in middle age. Is this what you meant to do?

PP, I too would interpret it like that, but if the cost of getting it wrong was being stuck on the far side of the world with no school for my kids, I would still be gibbering. Wouldn't you?


Posted by: OFE | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 6:33 AM
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alameida, that totally sucks. The delay past June I sort of understand, but if they've decided why the fuck can't they just tell you?

These bureaucracies are pretty insane sometimes. For example, I just got a letter of offer on the 12th that specified a start date of the 10th. And then an addendum that said `how about January' ?

So I can relate alameida, we have no idea if we'll be here or elsewhere come December, either.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 7:05 AM
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we have no idea if we'll be here or elsewhere come December, either

This may have been answered elsewhere, but did you take the job close to the beach?


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 7:21 AM
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Yeah, I too was wondering whether that place offered you a job, soup.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 7:26 AM
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Now that I remember who Rossy de Palma is, I am entirely uncertain about whether most men would find her attractive.

My own definition of "attractive" includes qualities like "interesting" and "striking." De Palma certainly has that. I wouldn't describe De Palma as beautiful, but I think she's attractive. She has a sort of exaggerated Renaissance Mannerist beauty look. I am also fascinated/entertained/delighted by the whole Lady Gaga thing, but #168 gets it right.

But the hotness comes through his weird intensity, which suggests he's about to snap. Who are the female celebrity versions of this?

Grace Jones owed basically her entire career to this perception.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 7:33 AM
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Sigourney Weaver is a lovely, fine-boned woman, but so tall that I am surprised that Hollywood's legions of short, balding, troll-like executive misogynists ever allowed her to work in movies.

Hollywood is institutionally biased against tall, stunningly beautiful women? That's a new one.

you don't really see popular musicians of either sex who are fat (when they break in, anyway - Jerry Garcia was once slenderish).

They stay popular even once they get larger, though. Aretha Franklin can still fill a concert hall, even though she is rapidly approaching the point where she can, well, fill a concert hall.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 7:35 AM
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Hollywood is institutionally biased against tall, stunningly beautiful women?

Hollywood tends to be biased in favour of short arses of all genders - Tom Cruise, take a bow. There's a perception that small people film better, though whether it's true or not with current technology, God and nattargcM only know.

Obviously you could fill a book with the exceptions, but the trend has been remarked on often enough.


Posted by: OFE | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 7:41 AM
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Grace Jones owed basically her entire career to this perception.

But she was only considered hot by homosexual men.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 7:51 AM
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My primary response to full-length pictures of her is, "Ouch, she's skinny."

Yeah, did this use to be less true, or do I just have the voluptuous Lara Croft image in my mind? Because I see pics of her in sheath dresses (or whatever) and she's a total lollipop with boobs.

They say having kids really changes your body....


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 7:54 AM
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re: 213

She wasn't always that skinny. Freaky lips, naturally, but otherwise quite normally proportioned.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 8:25 AM
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Yeah, earlier in Jolie's career she was thin, but not so severe-looking. I suspect that, in addition to the implants, she's more toned these days and so more bony looking.

Also, apologies for the typically crap job that I do editing my comments.


Posted by: Jimmy Pongo | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 8:38 AM
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Yeah, I too was wondering whether that place offered you a job, soup.

Things are actually kind of crazy. So as everyone knows, this year has been a pretty terrible one for hiring. I went into the spring feeling ok about it, but had some early disappointments with the defunding of a couple of positions I was really interested in, and second guessing having declined a position earlier.

By late June I'd pretty much decided to declare it a wash and extend my search (it wasn't that big this time) this fall. All of the feedback I was getting (positions defunded, 400 applicants per position, that sort of thing) was pretty depressing, considering all the people from this year who didn't get placed and will be looking next year...

Somehow my famously lucky horseshoes are still operating though. I've been flying for interviews recently (on as short a notice as 2-3 days, which is messing with my schedule to no end) as I have three good offers since beginning of the month, plus a couple more I'm not considering. Going to have to decide soon.

The offers seem to pretty much run the gamut of possibilities for someone in my position, which gives me this near perfect way to weigh the possibilities.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 9:06 AM
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thin, but not so severe-looking.

She's older, which is generally going to make being very thin look harsher.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 9:12 AM
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I've only seen two jobs so far this year in the UK I could even have applied for. Everything else was either clearly aimed at senior people with many publications, or was massively outside my areas of competence/specialisation.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 9:18 AM
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Flowbear had a nice post about Friday Night Lights and the relative attractiveness games that Hollywood plays.


Posted by: Jimmy Pongo | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 9:36 AM
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I've only seen two jobs so far this year in the UK I could even have applied for.

I applied for fewer than ten, in two countries. Three or four of those were a real stretch, and only three were what I would call a good match.

On the other hand two of the offers I now have didn't come from postings at all, and it's not like they are all typical 2/1 to 2/2 load t-t research positions; as I said the offers are all over the map (e.g. there's also a 4/4 load, and even a startup in the mix)


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 9:40 AM
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History jobs in my field are also slow to start this year and, as ttaM says, disproportionately geared at folks coming in at the Associate level or Assistant with lots of publications and experience.


Posted by: Jimmy Pongo | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 9:44 AM
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re: 220

Yeah, I applied for one of those two. Didn't even get a reply. Which I suspect is going to be par for the course. I suspect I can write this year off and just get stuck into getting some more publications out there before next year.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 10:06 AM
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221: yes, it seems pretty slow all over from what I've heard, particularly for research positions. I'm coming at this with a fair bit more experience than someone right out of grad school, as I've been postdoc-ing, but that's pretty usual for the discipline so it may be a wash.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 10:06 AM
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222: makes sense, but you're at the opposite end of that process that I am though (iirc, you just graduated, right?). I could probably do a year or even two more post doc before people started to raise eyebrows at it, but at some point it becomes a problem. None of these positions are absolutely perfect (big surprise) but it wouldn't be worth the risk of carrying over to next year so I'll take one of them, I expect.

Have you heard of many positions being defunded in the UK? Seems like quite a few have been, here.

I was happy to have one solid offer coming, but to go from zero and resigned to it (with people telling me I was stupid to have turned anything down in this market) to several in the space of a week and a half or so has been very surprising.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 10:11 AM
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re: 224

Yeah, technically I graduate in 3 weeks. But I'm old by UK job market standards, I think, to be at that stage. I was over 30 when I started my doctorate and took two years out in the middle.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 10:20 AM
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re: 224

Congratulations on getting some offers, btw.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 10:20 AM
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226: Thanks!

Yeah, I'm a little older for the market too (the whole dropping out of high school, etc. thing) which makes some of these issues a bit more immediate for me too. At some point people probably wonder why you aren't further along, I guess.

Good luck with your search!


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 10:26 AM
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And fwiw, some of these options will probably spell doom for my participation here. Ah well.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 10:27 AM
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Every mama bird wants the babies to leave the nest, soup. Spread them wings.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 10:51 AM
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Spread them wings

As long as you comment about it here when you do.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 11:03 AM
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some of these options will probably spell doom for my participation here.

That will sadden me, but moving on is usually the way to go.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 11:22 AM
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Since this thread seems to have degenerated away from its post:

||
Help! I'm being repressed!
The statecity is persecuting me!

They sent me a letter about the grass, I mowed it, and now they are claiming that THEY mowed it, and I have a week to send them a letter contesting it, or pay over $100! This would be bad enough, except that THEY DIDN'T MOW IT! Not even a little bit!

Has anyone had successful (or instructive unsuccessful) experiences contesting this kind of assessment? I don't have time-logged photos of the grass being cut or anything, just my word as an anarchist and a gentleman.

What say you, mineshaft?
||>


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 11:26 AM
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What say you, mineshaft?

burn shit down!

Seriously though, no fun. I wonder if they do stuff like this betting that a bunch of people will just pay the $100 rather than deal with the hassle of contesting it.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 11:33 AM
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I would guess that they're not lying, just sloppy and mixed up. I'd write the letter saying "Actually, I mowed it on [date]," and follow up with a friendly call saying something like "This has to be an error -- can I ask when exactly your records show the city mowing my grass, and who was supposed to have done it?" and just keep nagging until they admit that they don't have any record showing that.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 11:35 AM
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232: Cut your hair grass, hippie.

I'm having fun imagining possible explanations. Maybe a mowing crew was dispatched, saw the grass was already cut, and instead of heading on to the next job instead said they were cutting your grass while they just chilled for an hour or two.

If they're anything like the IRS (who in my experience, when confused about any moderately complicated financial transaction, default to the explanation which costs you the most money), just send them a letter explaining the situationand it shuoldn't be too hard to resolve.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 11:37 AM
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I'd agree the first thing to do is the obvious one, send a letter contesting the claim, and saying when you cut it yourself. If they push back, that's a different issue.

I suspect they hand a crew a list of places to go around, and they're supposed to record any place they don't do. Default is to send out a charge for work done. So it could be sloppy record keeping, easy enough.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 11:41 AM
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Do you think it's worth it to send it return-receipt? I could actually drop it off in person, as I go by City Hall several times a week (and am planning to go there today.)


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 11:44 AM
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I rent in MPLS, so I haven't gone through this there. In St. Paul though, I remember my dad getting a notice which required him to call and tell them he was going to cut his grass like they liked and then actually do it. I'd check the original notice to make sure that there wasn't some date by which things needed to happen or they'd do them automatically. After that, like everyone says, contact the city, in person if you can. I've found them to be pretty polite and reasonable on things like parking tickets (the haggling after, not the initial giving).


Posted by: Jimmy Pongo | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 11:48 AM
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Kill your lawn.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 11:51 AM
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238: Well, I did wait until the day before the deadline for cutting the grass, but I didn't see anything in the initial letter (which I don't have with me) about calling them. And they claim to have cut it 3 weeks after their deadline date. Which is kind of absurd.

239: That is, in fact, just my intention. I want a rain garden on the front and sides, and firepit/compost pile/raised bed gardens in the rear. Sort of a reverse-mullet for the yard.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 11:57 AM
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Do you think it's worth it to send it return-receipt? I could actually drop it off in person, as I go by City Hall several times a week (and am planning to go there today.)

Nope -- I'd read the directions on the notice you got, and do exactly what it says. If it doesn't say return-receipt or certified, I don't think it'd do any good. But I would call, and see if you can find someone to talk to who can look into it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 11:57 AM
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Well, I did wait until the day before the deadline for cutting the grass, but I didn't see anything in the initial letter (which I don't have with me) about calling them. And they claim to have cut it 3 weeks after their deadline date.

Um, so you cut it, and they claim they cut it three weeks later? Is there any chance that they did cut it three weeks later? It's been wet enough here that I could see a lawn getting shaggy looking in three weeks.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 11:59 AM
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They probably cut SOMEONE's grass on that date.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:02 PM
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I could actually drop it off in person

Good idea. And when you do it, ask for a photocopy stamped "received" with the date.

Kill your lawn.

The very best solution. Lawns suck.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:04 PM
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Lawns suck.

Truer words are rarely spoken.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:04 PM
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What's he supposed to do, let it turn into a pasture? That would also be deemed an "unmowed lawn". The only alternative would be professional landscaping from stem to stern. Or replace it with gravel or asphalt.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:05 PM
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I'm kinda impressed that they can mow your lawn and then charge you for it.

In the small upstate NY village I used to live in, there was a guy who fought all the way up to the supreme court for his right not to mow the lawn, and he won.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:08 PM
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State Supreme Court, that is.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:08 PM
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I'm kinda impressed that they can mow your lawn and then charge you for it.

That is pretty common I think. At least it happens here as well. Also shoveling your sidewalk in the winter.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:14 PM
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The only alternative would be professional landscaping from stem to stern

Feh, professionalism. Where's Emerson when you need him?

Plant a forest. Plant bamboo. Plant an orchard. Plant vegetables. Plant an herb lawn (one kind of lawn that doesn't suck). Plant prairie grasses, as an environmentalist/biologist friend of mine did; the neighbors got pissed off because it looked unkempt, but she got the city to recognize it as habitat, and the birds and insects loved it.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:15 PM
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242: Yes, I wondered that as well.

It becomes rather comical: notice sent every three weeks: Hey, you, this is your three-weekly message reminding to mow your stupid lawn! (I assume that the city doesn't monitor this, but that neighbors call in to report a disturbance in the nature of an unmowed lawn.)


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:16 PM
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Yes, once again, I hate lawns too, so I am going to get it turned into a rain garden eventually. There's a city funded program here to help you do that -- and you get a credit against the stormwater runoff portion of your water bill if you do it according to their specifications.

An acquaintance of my sister's did the rain garden thing a couple of years ago, and the neighbors complained about it looking unkempt. So the city inspector (apparently the one nice one, not the hardass who inspects my neighborhood) came out to cite her for it, and was so impressed by its rain gardeniness that he put her in for an award, which she won.

242: It did grow a bit during that time, but I think I would have noticed if they cut it after 3 weeks growth, and they didn't.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:22 PM
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251: Actually, how it works in Minneapolis is if they know you're a new homeowner, they send the inspectors around every couple of weeks for the first couple of years to condition you into following their stupid rules. After that, they usually don't hassle you if no one's complaining.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:23 PM
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Oh, also, the super-ironic part of all of this is that my grass wouldn't be growing nearly so fast, except that the EPA replaced the dirt last fall (we're a Superfun! site) and the contractors laid down some kind of GMO hyper-grass that grows 4 times as fast as anyone else's lawn. Fucking government.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:25 PM
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What's he supposed to do, let it turn into a pasture?

Kill it, and replace with something approaching xeriscaping would be my first guess.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:37 PM
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Oops, 255 was pwned.

but this:
Also shoveling your sidewalk in the winter.

Makes more sense as it's a safety issue.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:38 PM
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Oh my god, how I wish someone made sure sidewalks got shoveled here. Every winter is an exercise in loathing my neighbors.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:40 PM
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Given that you're sure they didn't cut it, continuing to politely reiterate "Nuh-uh", by following the directions they give you for protesting, will probably work eventually. (This is kind of what I do for a living -- that is, I handle cases that are sort of like what would happen if the city kept on insisting that they cut your lawn, and you sued them to straighten it out. The key is that you have to follow the process they give you for disputing the assessment -- once you skip a step, you lose. If you can just keep following directions, you eventually win.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:41 PM
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253: if they know you're a new homeowner, they send the inspectors around every couple of weeks for the first couple of years to condition you into following their stupid rules.

Wow. That is weird. Uh, is this a good use of city resources? I couldn't say.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:46 PM
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253, 259: Yeah, really, wow. I generally think minneapolitan's a bit nutty with respect to politics, but judging by his stories I can't blame him at all.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 12:51 PM
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254: Hyper-grass gives you the hyper-munchies. Consider yourself warned.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 2:22 PM
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It's been wet enough here that I could see a lawn getting shaggy looking in three weeks.

Three weeks is enough for our lawn to grow hugely. Not in winter, but definitely this time of the year. It's comically lush at the moment.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 4:26 PM
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Dropped off my letter of protest. They have a little drop box for them. The waiting room for the housing hearings was not quite like the Weapon Shop Courts in The Weapon Shops of Isher, but pretty close. I don't expect to be awarded treble damages either.

Now I will have to get a haircut and make sure my suit is fairly non-wrinkled.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 4:45 PM
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it occurred to me later that it was silly of me to dispute m'sieu paprika's objections to quizno's hottness, since he was proving my original, though perhaps fantasized, point.
maybe I will find out today about my husband's tenure. I will tell everybody if so. I hadn't really considered the "we're telling you without telling you" point above. my feelings about it have become negative as it drags on, since if he were sailing through without trouble they wouldn't be taking so long. but maybe it's all meaningless and I'm only starting to think we're doomed because the stress is eroding my native precognitive abilities.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 6:38 PM
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264: ala, how long can it possibly take to find out? Forgive me for saying so, but isn't there a back door of information through which Husband X can get some clue? I'm sure you've both thought all that through. So just breathe, for now.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-17-09 6:53 PM
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you would think there would be a back channel, but somehow nothing's doing. I told him to go in and play on the department head's heartstrings. seriously, I'm having an anxiety attack. I need to calm down. it's so stupid!! they should just tell us already, the bastards.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-18-09 2:15 AM
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they should just tell us already, the bastards.

Absolutely. That's really not necessary. Academics can be such a mindfuck sometimes. I'm seriously considering leaving, but I also have a good t-t offer in front of me. Just out of the corner of my eye I can see the ghosts of generations of grad students and junior faculty, coming out of the walls and telling me I'm crazy.

(not trying to derail discussion of tenure weirdness)


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08-18-09 8:41 AM
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still no word. will it be next week? whoooo can say?


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-19-09 3:48 AM
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Schrödinger's Tenure.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-19-09 3:59 AM
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Surely they have to tell husband X before the term starts. Right? This just sucks for you two.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 08-19-09 6:37 AM
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still no word. will it be next week? whoooo can say?

Arg! I feel for you, alameida. So frustrating.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 08-19-09 6:47 AM
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haha, the term already started last week.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-19-09 7:36 PM
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Surely they have to tell husband X before the term starts. Right?

No, tenure decisions regularly get handed down whenever.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-19-09 8:05 PM
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Gah! That is utter crap.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 08-19-09 8:08 PM
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The juxtaposition of regularly and whenever is rich.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 08-19-09 8:09 PM
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They need to unhand that decision.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 08-19-09 8:10 PM
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Sorry to be on topic, but the new guy doesn't hold a candle to Nimoy. He can barely arch an eyebrow. And his voice, nothing distinctive at all.

I'm not really qualified to comment on teh hottness, but as far as the charismatic actor quality goes, Q-man isn't even close.


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 08-20-09 4:14 AM
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I saw Zachary Quinto on the street once. He's even better looking in person than on TV. You would immediately take him for a model if you didn't recognize him from TV.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 08-20-09 12:51 PM
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maybe they'll tellus next week!


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-21-09 10:56 AM
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My friend was in LA and saw Quinto on the street. OMG it's Spock! she said. Can we get a picture with you? The star obliged. Ok, they said, now you take one of us. He did.

I love that story.


Posted by: Lambent Cactus | Link to this comment | 09- 1-09 12:24 PM
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