Yeah, not so much on the funny. But I appreciate the link anyway. I'm going to go ahead and admit it: especially after hearing her voice, I think Maureen Dowd is dead sexy.
Overly long perhaps, but I thought a handful were rather funny. Perhaps I'm being too charitable. Or the novocaine from the dentist this morning is messing with my head.
There's a lot of filler, but the high points justified the link, in my view. The one about Rather was good, as was the jab at TimesSelect. I also liked the quiche, even though that's a tired dig.
I think Saiselgy shows the flaw in Dowd's premise. It's really much more of a continuum. Somewhat smart and successful = turnoff. Smart and successful enough to offer you a job = hott.
We should set Saiselegy up with Dowd. He could be her boy-toy, and we could get constant updates on their relationship via gawker, wonkette, and the superficial. Hell, if they'll let us videotape it, we might be able to get some money from Fox for it.
How did we gain the power to set up anyone with Dowd, Saiselgy (though I might like SCMT's version with "elegy " in it better) or otherwise? Can we use this power for good, rather than evil?
Yeah, Becks has this right. Read this Dowd profile and you'll see that she only seems to date men (John Tierney, Aaron Sorkin, Michael Douglas, Leon Wieseltier) who are too successful to be able to benefit from her connections.
DeLong to Krugman to Dowd. And if she's dated either Tierney or Wieseltier (or, come to that, Douglas), she's not precisely picky. And we could refer to Saiselgy as "Hollywood heir, Saiselgy" from now on.
But really, this should go nowhere without Murdoch's sponsorship of the whole event.
Fontanta, I was agreeing! Agreeing! And as a neocon, I am committed to Manichaen oppositions: no dichotomies are ever false. Why do you hate America?
Also, while I wouldn't globally recommend Steve Sailer, it's pretty funny that he keeps referring to Dowds' articles as the continuing series "I Hate Men! (Why, Oh, Why Didn't a Man Ever Marry Me?)"
And Wehttam Saiselgy is correct that the explanation works both ways. Yes, it's true that many men are loath to 'date up' either in status or in age; but likewise many women are loath to date down. The dating plight of successful women can largely be explained by high standards. While Maureen cruises the limited pool of men who are unmarried, 55, and filthy rich, her target 50-something male I-banker happily bangs anyone with a pulse, a skirt, and a valid driver's license.
While I hate to defend Dowd even a little (I'm not terribly keen on her as a columnist, and complaining that nobody loves you does make you look like an ass) I can sort of see her point in one regard. Being powerful, and successful, and professionally accomplished are actively attractive if you're a man -- a single man with Dowd's resume wouldn't have any trouble getting all the romantic attention he wanted. For a woman, it's not a drawback, mostly, but no one's out there lusting after her because she's got an Op-Ed column in the Times. So, while I doubt that men are fleeing her because she's too smart and strongwilled for them, they also aren't flocking to her because of her accomplishments; her male peers, on the other hand, almost certainly have 'groupies'. I could see how the difference there could make a woman cranky after a while.
I have a of Dowd on TV opposite William Safire where she looked, well, ghoulish. Really bad makeup. There is no possibility of me ever thinking her hot after that.
her male peers, on the other hand, almost certainly have 'groupies'.
Maybe Krugman, because he's incendiary. But the others? Friedman? Tierny? Kristoff? I suppose crazier things happen.
But LB is right. A successful, attractive, connected 55 year old guy in NYC has to beat 'em off with a stick. That must be galling for Dowd. Too bad men and women aren't the same. That why we need Leon Kass given seminars on courtship at campuses nationwide.
But the others? Friedman? Tierny? Kristoff? I suppose crazier things happen.
I don't know a thing about any of their personal lives -- I'm generalizing madly. I'm just certain that the words "I have a column twice a week on the Op-Ed page of the Times" would be actively useful for attracting women; the natural response would be the head-tilt, eyelash-bat, "That must be so fascinating! Tell me, what's it like?", even if coming from an objectively repulsive person. I just don't see men responding the same way. Kissinger, rather than Albright, was the grotesque-looking Sec. of State who said "Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac," -- I somehow doubt that men, whether of higher or lower status, were coming on to Albright because of her position.
(This does not mean that anyone owes Dowd a date, or that I see this as a gender inequity that needs to be remedied. Just that I could see how, in her position, I could get cranky.)
I just can't picture any human females giggling conspiratorially at some Starbucks where a lot of recent immigrants from central Asia tend to hang out: "Oh my God -- is that? No... Ohmygodohmygod -- it is! Thomas Friedman! [waving] Mr. Friedman! Mr. Friedman!"
Then they flash him.
I'll go on record as saying that I would date Maureen Dowd if she didn't mind a long-distance thing and didn't mind paying for dinner most of the time. Her columns aren't that great, but it's not like I'm shitting gold over at my blog every day, and I don't even have a word limit.
Well my feeling is that if A-list pundits have lots of groupies (as hypothesized in 33) then I ought to have at least some groupies. But not so much. Ergo, there are no Tom Friedman groupies.
Dowd looks great for someone in her fifties. And, as also noted previously, she's a redhead. Gail Collins, though, Saiselgy? She just looks like my aunt.
Looks like your aunt, sure, but does your aunt decide who gets to write op-eds for The New York Times? See 17. David Shipley won't return my emails and I can't even spell properly. Sleeping my way to the top is the only hope.
Anyone have a picture of Friedman driving a Lexus over an olive tree? With a caption reading: "One way to flatten the world"?
That's probably not funny, but it's at least as not funny as the Drudge Dowd caption suggestions.
I know, the thread has moved on to discussing the relative - and I stress the word relative - hotness of Times columnists, but not being among the Select I cannot afford to have an opinion on the subject.
David Brinkley spoke at my graduation ('92). I think he'd been hitting the bloody marys pretty hard that morning. Had a bit of a problem staying on topic.
Does anyone have a picture of an olive tree driving a Lexus over Friedman? With a caption reading:"One way to make Tom Freidman stop repeating corporate executives views on globalization"? I would wear a t-shirt emblazoned with it. I might even pay for such a t-shirt. The market should now produce one, right?
57: Given that Cala was the one who liked Coulter, and that Cala likes Adam's apples in general, I think we can conclude that tall and freakishly skinny is also Cala's type. A lotta people won't get no justice tonight...
It's terrifying how funny this blog is, sometimes. There are comment threads that I can read again and again, like good book. It'll be sad when Unfogged dies.
I have found no substitute for a fully functioning Unfogged. Most of the other blogs I read are either lefty news blogs (Atrios, Kos) where the comments are excruciating or funny parenting blogs (Daddyzine, Dooce) where the comments are nonexistent.
I met Wesley Clark in DFW airport! Well before the election, and I didn't have the balls to ask him whether he was going to run. Also didn't have the balls to join the military after he asked me to.
I met Wesley Clark during the election! He's short and wears some very prominent jewelry! And yet I think he could take about 10 of me. God, I miss Wesley Clark and Ogged!
Once again you are right on. The glory and tragedy for women is that their "hotness" arc peaks early and is based mostly on how well they can appear to be twenty five years old.
Men's hotness arc depends more on their power, meaning money and exposure, so it can peak much later.
I think to some extent this explains the similarity of young men to older woman - they both are prone to dissatisfaction, hostility and bitterness. They express these things differently, but the root cause is the same - they are not valued by society.
I'm not a fan of Dowd's writing. At all. And I think she's succumbing to an all-to-common idea; that nookie is handed out based on merit, like gold stars in elementary school.
"But I'm smart! I'm successful! I have red hair and horrible red shoes! Men must not like successful women!"
"But I'm a nice guy! I treat women well! Why do they not flock to me? Women must like abusive men!"
I think the standard is that if you say anything about Coulter that's not outright invective, it counts as 'liking'. We've got to lower the bar for her.
Agreed that Dowd is annoying and succumbing to the merit-badge theory--succumb to the Mineshaft instead! we'll treat you right--but she is nevertheless physically attractive. Got a bit of a Jodie Foster thing going on, maybe.
Kotsko: Too much philosophy. I can't get past all the serious posts.
One difference between old women/young men is that the woman's arc is trending downwards. She can slow it, maybe even reverse it, but not forever. A young man's arc is generally trending upwards.
As for Saiselgy - I think he is doing fine. He has started to figure things out. He's gaining visibility and power. His sexual arc is on the way up. Things will get easier for him.
Weiner, It's only this week -- kind of like the Unfogged reading group, but not agonizingly detailed and open-ended.
I think for this Unfogged ==> The Weblog transfer to work, you guys would have to like me personally a lot more than you currently do. Plus I'd have to completely change my blog.
You can't seriously maintain that "Saiselgy" is intuitively harder to pronounce than "Yglesias." It's just an intrinsically odd combination of letters.
But if you train to be a Sumo wrestler then don't be complaining if you don't win medals for the hundred yard dash.
Tripp, tell me how that doesn't translate to "If you are successful and intelligent and female and made the mistake of being educated, don't complain that the men don't like you."
Like I said, though, I don't think that Dowd's education/job/intelligence/lack of writing style is what is driving her unluckiness on the meat market. There's too many other factors, and clearly, the 20 and 30 something unfogged-commenters think she's hot, so..... maybe she needs to comment more?
So if we suppose that the pattern of sexual attractiveness is as described above, isn't that just vastly unfair to successful men? I mean, they'll be reaching their peak attractiveness at a time of their careers and lives when to avail themselves of their attractiveness would most likely be regarded as harassment, or (if they're married) betrayal of trust.
But if you train to be a Sumo wrestler then don't be complaining if you don't win medals for the hundred yard dash.
Tripp, tell me how that doesn't translate to "If you are successful and intelligent and female and made the mistake of being educated, don't complain that the men don't like you."
Huh? It translates to: Men like women who look like they are 18-25 and fit. If you don't look like that then don't complain about your other talents not mattering. They don't matter in this arena.
Dowd is hot, for a fifty year old, but not for a 25 year old. Her photo is staged. I don't know if she missed out when she was 25, or why.
Well, yeah. Marriage is the contract that is supposed to bind both parties while they have a mismatch. The woman is sharing her youth with the man with the promise that the man will share his future power with her.
That is why men who seek and get trophy wives are disdained. They are breaking their part of the bargain.
We put all sorts of facades on this and don't really talk about it in polite society because it is too personal and potentially hurtful but it is all around us, in spades.
Sometimes, a list of captions makes me laugh so hard I can't breathe. That is a list of captions.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 1:27 PM
Is the link SFW?
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 1:29 PM
It's fine, nothing vulgar there. Just hilarious.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 1:35 PM
You (and Labs) really thought they were funny?
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 1:42 PM
Yeah, not so much on the funny. But I appreciate the link anyway. I'm going to go ahead and admit it: especially after hearing her voice, I think Maureen Dowd is dead sexy.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 1:48 PM
I'm with Bridgeplate. The first three or four, I could see maybe a light chuckle. After that--eh, with a sprinkling of yeesh here and there.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 1:48 PM
Overly long perhaps, but I thought a handful were rather funny. Perhaps I'm being too charitable. Or the novocaine from the dentist this morning is messing with my head.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 1:51 PM
See, I would think she was sexy, but she's too damn smart and successful. That's just a huge turnoff.
Posted by Wehttam Saiselgy | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 1:54 PM
Sorry, I'm with SB, too (although thanks for 3).
Maureen Dowd sexy? Only if I'd never read a word she'd written.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 2:03 PM
So who should we try to set her up with? Ben Wolfson? Ogged? Mark Kleiman?
Posted by Brad DeLong | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 2:10 PM
There's a lot of filler, but the high points justified the link, in my view. The one about Rather was good, as was the jab at TimesSelect. I also liked the quiche, even though that's a tired dig.
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 2:14 PM
I'm with Armsmasher. I've had a crush on her ever since they switched to the most recent photo on her columns.
Definitely the hottest current NYT columnist.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 2:16 PM
Yeah, the Times Select thing was comedy gold people! Sheesh!
Posted by baa | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 2:18 PM
baa, are you ridiculing me or agreeing with me? I can never tell. Bonus points if you say "false dichotomy!" in response.
Posted by FL | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 2:24 PM
Now Gail Collins who edits the whole page -- that's teh hott.
Posted by Wehttam Saiselgy | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 2:34 PM
Now Gail Collins who edits the whole page -- that's teh hott.
Posted by Wehttam Saiselgy | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 2:34 PM
I think Saiselgy shows the flaw in Dowd's premise. It's really much more of a continuum. Somewhat smart and successful = turnoff. Smart and successful enough to offer you a job = hott.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 2:41 PM
We should set Saiselegy up with Dowd. He could be her boy-toy, and we could get constant updates on their relationship via gawker, wonkette, and the superficial. Hell, if they'll let us videotape it, we might be able to get some money from Fox for it.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 2:48 PM
How did we gain the power to set up anyone with Dowd, Saiselgy (though I might like SCMT's version with "elegy " in it better) or otherwise? Can we use this power for good, rather than evil?
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 3:01 PM
Yeah, Becks has this right. Read this Dowd profile and you'll see that she only seems to date men (John Tierney, Aaron Sorkin, Michael Douglas, Leon Wieseltier) who are too successful to be able to benefit from her connections.
Posted by Wehttam Saiselgy | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 3:01 PM
DeLong to Krugman to Dowd. And if she's dated either Tierney or Wieseltier (or, come to that, Douglas), she's not precisely picky. And we could refer to Saiselgy as "Hollywood heir, Saiselgy" from now on.
But really, this should go nowhere without Murdoch's sponsorship of the whole event.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 3:17 PM
Fontanta, I was agreeing! Agreeing! And as a neocon, I am committed to Manichaen oppositions: no dichotomies are ever false. Why do you hate America?
Also, while I wouldn't globally recommend Steve Sailer, it's pretty funny that he keeps referring to Dowds' articles as the continuing series "I Hate Men! (Why, Oh, Why Didn't a Man Ever Marry Me?)"
And Wehttam Saiselgy is correct that the explanation works both ways. Yes, it's true that many men are loath to 'date up' either in status or in age; but likewise many women are loath to date down. The dating plight of successful women can largely be explained by high standards. While Maureen cruises the limited pool of men who are unmarried, 55, and filthy rich, her target 50-something male I-banker happily bangs anyone with a pulse, a skirt, and a valid driver's license.
Posted by baa | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 3:29 PM
and a valid driver's license.
Posted by baa
This would likely exclude many young foreigners, so I doubt it's true.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 3:53 PM
looks like I copied/pasted a bit too much.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 3:53 PM
While I hate to defend Dowd even a little (I'm not terribly keen on her as a columnist, and complaining that nobody loves you does make you look like an ass) I can sort of see her point in one regard. Being powerful, and successful, and professionally accomplished are actively attractive if you're a man -- a single man with Dowd's resume wouldn't have any trouble getting all the romantic attention he wanted. For a woman, it's not a drawback, mostly, but no one's out there lusting after her because she's got an Op-Ed column in the Times. So, while I doubt that men are fleeing her because she's too smart and strongwilled for them, they also aren't flocking to her because of her accomplishments; her male peers, on the other hand, almost certainly have 'groupies'. I could see how the difference there could make a woman cranky after a while.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 3:54 PM
I have a of Dowd on TV opposite William Safire where she looked, well, ghoulish. Really bad makeup. There is no possibility of me ever thinking her hot after that.
her male peers, on the other hand, almost certainly have 'groupies'.
Maybe Krugman, because he's incendiary. But the others? Friedman? Tierny? Kristoff? I suppose crazier things happen.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 3:59 PM
At least her lack of success in dating gives her more time to do all the rigorous research that goes into each and everyone one of her columns.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 3:59 PM
Kotsko, that's superb.
But LB is right. A successful, attractive, connected 55 year old guy in NYC has to beat 'em off with a stick. That must be galling for Dowd. Too bad men and women aren't the same. That why we need Leon Kass given seminars on courtship at campuses nationwide.
Posted by baa | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:02 PM
This seems like a good question for us males: Is there any position which makes a woman more attractive to you?
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:03 PM
If anyone "ATM"s that, I'll punch them.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:03 PM
I apparantly construed "peers" too narowly in 26.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:05 PM
Michael, you're gonna have to rephrase, 'cuz as written, all I'm coming up with are crudities. (E.g.: Yes, the one you took in your Frappr picture.)
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:08 PM
But the others? Friedman? Tierny? Kristoff? I suppose crazier things happen.
I don't know a thing about any of their personal lives -- I'm generalizing madly. I'm just certain that the words "I have a column twice a week on the Op-Ed page of the Times" would be actively useful for attracting women; the natural response would be the head-tilt, eyelash-bat, "That must be so fascinating! Tell me, what's it like?", even if coming from an objectively repulsive person. I just don't see men responding the same way. Kissinger, rather than Albright, was the grotesque-looking Sec. of State who said "Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac," -- I somehow doubt that men, whether of higher or lower status, were coming on to Albright because of her position.
(This does not mean that anyone owes Dowd a date, or that I see this as a gender inequity that needs to be remedied. Just that I could see how, in her position, I could get cranky.)
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:09 PM
I just can't picture any human females giggling conspiratorially at some Starbucks where a lot of recent immigrants from central Asia tend to hang out: "Oh my God -- is that? No... Ohmygodohmygod -- it is! Thomas Friedman! [waving] Mr. Friedman! Mr. Friedman!"
Then they flash him.
I'll go on record as saying that I would date Maureen Dowd if she didn't mind a long-distance thing and didn't mind paying for dinner most of the time. Her columns aren't that great, but it's not like I'm shitting gold over at my blog every day, and I don't even have a word limit.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:11 PM
A successful, attractive, connected 55 year old guy in NYC has to beat 'em off with a stick.
Whatever happened to just using a nicely warmed hand, maybe some lube?
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:12 PM
Dude...
Guys...
You think Dowd's hot??
Less TiVo, more going out.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:14 PM
32. I'm beginning to think the question was silly. I am really fuzzy-headed right now.
I was thinking 36, but was being wussy about it.
Posted by Michael | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:17 PM
Dowd is a redhead, which brings her up quite a bit. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say hott, but when the competition is Ann Coulter...
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:17 PM
Coulter's got better legs.
And better taste in shoes.
Dowd does have nice hair, though.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:18 PM
Coulter's got the batshit-rabid-insane thing, though.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:20 PM
That's a plus?
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:21 PM
Dowd is looking good for someone in her fifties. Lets see Krugman date a movie star.
Posted by Joe O | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:25 PM
Well my feeling is that if A-list pundits have lots of groupies (as hypothesized in 33) then I ought to have at least some groupies. But not so much. Ergo, there are no Tom Friedman groupies.
Posted by Wehttam Saiselgy | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:37 PM
Dowd looks great for someone in her fifties. And, as also noted previously, she's a redhead. Gail Collins, though, Saiselgy? She just looks like my aunt.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:40 PM
Looks like your aunt, sure, but does your aunt decide who gets to write op-eds for The New York Times? See 17. David Shipley won't return my emails and I can't even spell properly. Sleeping my way to the top is the only hope.
Posted by Wehttam Saiselgy | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:42 PM
When Tom Friedman spoke at my graduation, the women swooned.
This may have been because of the mid-90's heat and the graduation gowns.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:44 PM
Anyone have a picture of Friedman driving a Lexus over an olive tree? With a caption reading: "One way to flatten the world"?
That's probably not funny, but it's at least as not funny as the Drudge Dowd caption suggestions.
I know, the thread has moved on to discussing the relative - and I stress the word relative - hotness of Times columnists, but not being among the Select I cannot afford to have an opinion on the subject.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 4:50 PM
David Brinkley spoke at my graduation ('92). I think he'd been hitting the bloody marys pretty hard that morning. Had a bit of a problem staying on topic.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 5:37 PM
Coulter's got better legs. And better taste in shoes.
And an adam's apple. But to each her own.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 5:40 PM
Does anyone have a picture of an olive tree driving a Lexus over Friedman? With a caption reading:"One way to make Tom Freidman stop repeating corporate executives views on globalization"? I would wear a t-shirt emblazoned with it. I might even pay for such a t-shirt. The market should now produce one, right?
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 5:41 PM
Coulter vs. Dowd: Dowd's arm bones don't stick out through her skin, either, or if they do she's smart enough to cover them up.
Now, can anyone here explain what "Less TiVo" is supposed to mean? I've lost my, er, grip on the metaphor.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 5:46 PM
I don't think there's a consistent meaning for "less TiVo".
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 5:47 PM
The meaning is: more TiVo.
Posted by baa | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 5:49 PM
certainly not a morally consistent meaning- I ouldn't wish less TiVo on my worst enemy...
Posted by mike d | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 5:49 PM
er... wouldn't. Unless you want to question my manhood by suggesting I couldn't.
Posted by mike d | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 5:50 PM
Maureen Dowd is not hot for a woman in a her 50s. She's a hot woman in her 50s.
However, her whole "I'd be just like Rosalind Russell in His Girl Friday if it weren't for those damned feminists!" schtick is pretty shameful.
Posted by pjs | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 5:57 PM
I agree that Coulter is rather mannish. Perhaps a good match for Ogged then?
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 6:00 PM
It's impossible to judge Dowd because her makeup is always so awful. I suspect she has bad skin, a personal bugaboo. But otherwise, clearly hott.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 6:04 PM
57: Given that Cala was the one who liked Coulter, and that Cala likes Adam's apples in general, I think we can conclude that tall and freakishly skinny is also Cala's type. A lotta people won't get no justice tonight...
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 6:17 PM
I would be remiss in not linking to the tragic sequel.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 6:17 PM
It's terrifying how funny this blog is, sometimes. There are comment threads that I can read again and again, like good book. It'll be sad when Unfogged dies.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 6:30 PM
It hasn't? Aren't we all frantically trying to make out with a corpse? (No offense, Labs.)
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 8:43 PM
Ogged hasn't broken up with us! We're just seeing other blogs for a while.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 8:50 PM
Now, now we all knew this had to happen eventually. Also, Happy Halloween.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 9:11 PM
It's not you, it's me.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 9:12 PM
I have found no substitute for a fully functioning Unfogged. Most of the other blogs I read are either lefty news blogs (Atrios, Kos) where the comments are excruciating or funny parenting blogs (Daddyzine, Dooce) where the comments are nonexistent.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 9:14 PM
No, it's true, there is no substitute. How do I love thee, Unfogged? Let me count the ways....
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 9:16 PM
Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 9:19 PM
[He's on a roll.]
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 9:21 PM
How long do hiati last, anyway?
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 9:25 PM
There's four caesuras to a fermata, but I think that's metric, so if you want to convert to hiati you have to multiply by 9/5 and add 32....
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 9:30 PM
There's lots of posts in the archives with few or no comments. We could go bring them back up.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 9:37 PM
Say, what about that Kerry fellow anyway? With his Vietnam record I'm sure he could take Bush.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 9:39 PM
Ixnay on the electionway!
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 9:44 PM
I never knew this about Wesley Clark.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 9:45 PM
Aren't we all frantically trying to make out with a corpse?
Yes, but I got tired, so I thought I'd see what was going on here instead.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 10:42 PM
"This seems like a good question for us males: Is there any position which makes a woman more attractive to you?"
Well, my wife was, briefly, pictured on the side of a Czech beer bottle while holding foaming 'steins' of beer. Really.
Beer is teh hot.
Posted by Matt NattarGcM | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 11:25 PM
Being a musician.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 10-31-05 11:40 PM
Regarding pundits, groupies, and sex scandals -- George Will had his own sex scandal. Really.
Wife, hot girlfriend, furniture on the front lawn, new wife (not the girlfriend), second new wife, etc.
If George can do it, any pundit can.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 4:19 AM
I met Wesley Clark in DFW airport! Well before the election, and I didn't have the balls to ask him whether he was going to run. Also didn't have the balls to join the military after he asked me to.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 5:40 AM
I met Wesley Clark during the election! He's short and wears some very prominent jewelry! And yet I think he could take about 10 of me. God, I miss Wesley Clark and Ogged!
Posted by pjs | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 6:48 AM
I met Wesley Clark during the election! He's short
I met Bill Clinton during the '92 election. He's gigantic - much bigger man than is apparent on television.
If George can do it, any pundit can.
Except Derbyshire.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 7:16 AM
Re:25,
Lizardbreath,
Once again you are right on. The glory and tragedy for women is that their "hotness" arc peaks early and is based mostly on how well they can appear to be twenty five years old.
Men's hotness arc depends more on their power, meaning money and exposure, so it can peak much later.
I think to some extent this explains the similarity of young men to older woman - they both are prone to dissatisfaction, hostility and bitterness. They express these things differently, but the root cause is the same - they are not valued by society.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 7:19 AM
59: I what now?
I'm not a fan of Dowd's writing. At all. And I think she's succumbing to an all-to-common idea; that nookie is handed out based on merit, like gold stars in elementary school.
"But I'm smart! I'm successful! I have red hair and horrible red shoes! Men must not like successful women!"
"But I'm a nice guy! I treat women well! Why do they not flock to me? Women must like abusive men!"
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 7:41 AM
I have traditionally offered my site as a suitable replacement for Unfogged at times like this.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 7:49 AM
Hitting on the widow at a wake - nice, Adam.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:05 AM
Cala,
Good points.
Nookie is similar to gold stars in one way. You can get both by figuring out what the other person wants and then giving it to them.
But if you train to be a Sumo wrestler then don't be complaining if you don't win medals for the hundred yard dash.
And vice versa.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:08 AM
I think the standard is that if you say anything about Coulter that's not outright invective, it counts as 'liking'. We've got to lower the bar for her.
Agreed that Dowd is annoying and succumbing to the merit-badge theory--succumb to the Mineshaft instead! we'll treat you right--but she is nevertheless physically attractive. Got a bit of a Jodie Foster thing going on, maybe.
Kotsko: Too much philosophy. I can't get past all the serious posts.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:09 AM
84 & 87 – Saiselgy wrote the best take on the distribution of sex relative to merit that I've seen.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:17 AM
Who? I'm pretty sure Matthew Y. wrote that post.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:21 AM
One difference between old women/young men is that the woman's arc is trending downwards. She can slow it, maybe even reverse it, but not forever. A young man's arc is generally trending upwards.
As for Saiselgy - I think he is doing fine. He has started to figure things out. He's gaining visibility and power. His sexual arc is on the way up. Things will get easier for him.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:26 AM
Weiner, It's only this week -- kind of like the Unfogged reading group, but not agonizingly detailed and open-ended.
I think for this Unfogged ==> The Weblog transfer to work, you guys would have to like me personally a lot more than you currently do. Plus I'd have to completely change my blog.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:26 AM
Yeah, sorry, I realized my mistake after I posted it.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:27 AM
We like you! We really like you! But you will have to completely change the blog.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:29 AM
Is anyone else mentally pronouncing Saiselgy's name as Wet Ham, Sausagely? Or is that just me?
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:34 AM
That's a lot better than how I was mentally transforming it (Witthelm Saiselegy). It's like a complimentary closing.
Sausagely,
Wet Ham.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:38 AM
My mental reaction to Saiselgy here. I like yours better.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:38 AM
Why do you need to pronounce it?
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:39 AM
Wet Ham, Sausagely
A great name for a Jew.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:40 AM
Why do you need to pronounce it?
It's the volunteer work I do, reading Unfogged comment threads to the blind.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:43 AM
101!
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:43 AM
For Protestants: wet bacon?
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:44 AM
I was thinking of it as Wet Him Sessigelly, "sessigel" being, perhaps, a synonym for seasonal.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:47 AM
I pronounce it 'Sagely'. But not 'sage' as in 'wise', but 'sage' as in 'an herb that goes pleasantly with chicken.'
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:48 AM
Or pork products, as the case may be.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:49 AM
SCMTim, you need to pronounce it because it invites pronunciation. If you refuse, you estrange yourself from language. Saiselgy Saiselgy Saiselgy.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:50 AM
You can't seriously maintain that "Saiselgy" is intuitively harder to pronounce than "Yglesias." It's just an intrinsically odd combination of letters.
Posted by Wehttam Saiselgy | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:51 AM
But if you train to be a Sumo wrestler then don't be complaining if you don't win medals for the hundred yard dash.
Tripp, tell me how that doesn't translate to "If you are successful and intelligent and female and made the mistake of being educated, don't complain that the men don't like you."
Like I said, though, I don't think that Dowd's education/job/intelligence/lack of writing style is what is driving her unluckiness on the meat market. There's too many other factors, and clearly, the 20 and 30 something unfogged-commenters think she's hot, so..... maybe she needs to comment more?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:55 AM
"Saiselgy": pronounced SAIZE uhl jee
(think "syzygy", only different)
Posted by Isle of Toads | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:55 AM
Ditto that, Toads.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:55 AM
Thank you for 107. I no longer feel like the Bob Novak of Unfogged.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:57 AM
Obviously the 'g' is silent in Saiselgy.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 8:58 AM
maybe she needs to comment more
Who says she ain't? J'accuse, Cala!
109/110: The 's' is soft, just like his gentle hands.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 9:01 AM
See, 113 disproves 43. Saiselgy has groupies, just not the kind he was hoping for.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 9:04 AM
We already knew that.
Posted by Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 9:07 AM
I would be a Sagely groupie, but he can't spell, and I've heard that's a sign of laziness.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 9:10 AM
Look at how he spells Sagely, for goodness sake.
I'm out of the groupie market these days, but I did send in my boxtops to get the Sagely fan-club "Princess" sunvisor.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 9:18 AM
Should have saved your points, LB, and you might've picked up a lock from Swashbuckling Sagely.
(I'm betraying a fundamental trust here, I do realize.)
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 9:20 AM
So if we suppose that the pattern of sexual attractiveness is as described above, isn't that just vastly unfair to successful men? I mean, they'll be reaching their peak attractiveness at a time of their careers and lives when to avail themselves of their attractiveness would most likely be regarded as harassment, or (if they're married) betrayal of trust.
I sympathize with highly successful men.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 9:27 AM
The poor dears.
And oooo, a compelling picture of Black Matt, Terror of the Web.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 9:33 AM
Why not change the spelling to Wittham Sagely, thereby reducing the recognizability of the name?
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 9:33 AM
But if you train to be a Sumo wrestler then don't be complaining if you don't win medals for the hundred yard dash.
Tripp, tell me how that doesn't translate to "If you are successful and intelligent and female and made the mistake of being educated, don't complain that the men don't like you."
Huh? It translates to: Men like women who look like they are 18-25 and fit. If you don't look like that then don't complain about your other talents not mattering. They don't matter in this arena.
Dowd is hot, for a fifty year old, but not for a 25 year old. Her photo is staged. I don't know if she missed out when she was 25, or why.
Posted by Tripp | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 9:34 AM
Oh! A geek in a wig!
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 1-05 9:39 AM
slolern,
Well, yeah. Marriage is the contract that is supposed to bind both parties while they have a mismatch. The woman is sharing her youth with the man with the promise that the man will share his future power with her.
That is why men who seek and get trophy wives are disdained. They are breaking their part of the bargain.
We put all sorts of facades on this and don't really talk about it in polite society because it is too personal and potentially hurtful but it is all around us, in spades.