I think I'd need an adamantium-reinforced bra if I wanted to survive jogging right now.
I'm not going to click through to the article in the OP right now (at work), but I'd have assumed that MMA fighters wear chest protectors? Which look like heavy duty sports bras with hard cup inserts. Some female fighters train I know in just those (with shorts or leggings) when it's hot. They are skimpy-ish, but there's no danger of a clothing malfunction.
I only officiate in Boxe française matches, but we wouldn't let someone into the ring without the proper protective gear. There's a kit check by the ring official, before they get to enter the ring, and usually a second kit check by the referee before the fight starts. And that's for amateur matches with no money involved.
So I'm a bit surprised someone could even get as far as the ring without the correct gear on.
A UFC match was on the TV at the pizza place we had lunch two days ago. The sight of someone on the mat being punched in the face repeatedly was very unsettling.
This says male athletes wear only a groin protector and females wear only a chest protector.
The guy I saw had no head protection and was being punched in the face repeatedly while on the ground. It scared the children, and, well, me.
re: 3
Well, the chest protectors I've seen in use would protect someone's modesty even if their top was damaged or removed. Perhaps MMA ones are different.
I'm desperately uncharitable, but I read the quote and thought "Grete Waitz won the NYC marathon with shit running down her legs, and you're worried about flashing your tits?" Worrying about support is one thing, but when you're actually in the middle of a competition, worrying about modesty seems unserious.
Let's not get diverted by chest protectors when there are breasts behind them to talk about, people. Don't let me down.
Isn't UFC more entertainment and less sports? I'm not calling it theater like pro wrestling, but I'm not surprised no one's checking for protective gear.
re: 7
Well, there's big money in it, and a lot of people seem to take it fairly seriously. I don't follow it myself [it's not for me], but I'd have assumed [given what I know about podunk kickboxing competitions] that they take safety gear very seriously indeed.*
* even if the purpose of the sport is, ultimately, to batter/strangle people unconscious.**
** or accumulate enough battering and strangling points in the event that no unconsciousness ensues.
What makes something more entertainment than a sport?
10: Not only am I Pauline Kael, I'm also Potter Stewart. I have no idea, but I know it when I see it.
Um, possibly what I'm thinking of is that (I have the vague impression) that there's no low-level amateur competition? There's no such thing (which I actually don't know if there is or isn't) as a local, no money, UFC state championship? So athletes who developed skills in other martial arts are getting an entertainment-value-based payout in UFC, but no one's doing it just as a sport. But I'm completely making this up. I have no real idea.
It seems a bit fortuitous for this to happen in the "first women's fight in UFC history."
12: OTOH, that could perfectly well explain why no one checked her for chest protectors. No routine yet.
I am so pleased to get to do this to LB.
I can see the claim that it's not a real sport the way a specific martial art is on the grounds that there's no independent practice (except that there are places that advertise MMA training specifically), but not why that would have anything to do with checking for protective gear at high-profile competitions.
One could make a similar case that comparative literature isn't (or shouldn't be!) a self-standing academic discipline, on the grounds that it should be properly practiced by scholars who've developed skills in particular literary traditions, rather than as something it even makes sense to e.g. train undergrads in.
re: 11
Sure there are. I know people who fight in club and amateur level MMA (and K1) competitions here in the UK. Most of them start in one martial art or another, and eventually decide to see if they are any good at MMA. There are loads of gyms teaching MMA classes to amateurs, and quite a few specialist MMA clubs. Lots of those people will never compete, they are just training in it for fun, but there's a big MMA 'scene' that doesn't just revolve around major commercial competitions.
3: not that it's, like, the healthy kind of getting punched in the head or anything, but UFC fights get stopped due to blows to the head far, far, far before any kind of boxing match (amateur or pro) would.
I know I never study comparative literature without making sure my groin protector is in place.
And, of course, if you get hit hard enough to be concussed in a UFC bout, the fight will generally (not always, but almost always) be stopped, and nobody will be asking you to come back in and fight some more, so that's a lot safer than football or soccer or hockey.
the healthy kind of getting punched in the head or anything
Say more.
And, of course, if you get hit hard enough to be concussed in a UFC bout, the fight will generally (not always, but almost always) be stopped, and nobody will be asking you to come back in and fight some more, so that's a lot safer than football or soccer or hockey.
21, 23: Head injury, Sifu?
14, 18: See my repeated averments that I have no idea what I'm talking about.
there's no independent practice (except that there are places that advertise MMA training specifically)
When it started, the UFC was billed as a competition to see *which* martial arts were more effective than others. It has since (semi-organically) evolved into something of a discipline of its own, based on what works best under the unified MMA rules.
But I'm completely making this up. I have no real idea.
If we all started saying this every time it's true, conversation would get pretty unwieldy.
27: you are a failure as a consultant.
re: 25
Yeah, with a fairly standard set of source components for the MMA discipline in most clubs, as far as I can tell. Thai boxing, Western boxing, BJJ, and wrestling, more or less. With little bits of esoterica added for flavour.
25, 31 - My understanding -- and I'm not a huge MMA fan, so I could be off on the history here -- is basically that as well, with a hefty dose of Brazilian full-contact fighting competitions (introduced by the Gracie family) also in the DNA.
Thai boxing, Western boxing, BJJ, and wrestling
Yep. There's a sort of rock-paper-scissors logic to how they all fit together, so that while you see fighters who are more skilled in one or two of those disciplines than the others, you really don't see anybody at the upper levels any longer who hasn't trained in all of them. Or if you do, they get beaten pretty quickly.
32: That's BJJ (Brazilian jiu jitsu).
re: 33
Yeah, my french boxing mates who've done MMA have gone in with what are often pretty effective (even in MMA) stand-up skills, but they've had to do a ton of cross-training in BJJ and a bit of Thai to compete effectively.
One could make a similar case that comparative literature isn't (or shouldn't be!) a self-standing academic discipline, on the grounds that it should be properly practiced by scholars who've developed skills in particular literary traditions, rather than as something it even makes sense to e.g. train undergrads in.
Your Chicago style is no match for my MLA style! Prepare to cite!
31, 33: my friend trained at a gym that was heavy on the Sambo (one guess who ran the gym) which I'm surprised more people don't train in, based on what he said.
my friend trained at a gym that was heavy on the Sambo (one guess who ran the gym)
Bernard Manning?
[H]eavy on the Sambo
Gosh, Paula Deen is pissed.
19: LB is Pauline Kael and Potter Stewart. I am a delicate flower.
re: 37
Yeah, I know people who train in it. The Cambridge frenchyboxing club does some sambo/sombo. Not for MMA as such, but as part of a more old-fashioned JKD style 'multiple arts' syllabus.
I'm desperately uncharitable, but I read the quote and thought "Grete Waitz won the NYC marathon with shit running down her legs, and you're worried about flashing your tits?" Worrying about support is one thing, but when you're actually in the middle of a competition, worrying about modesty seems unserious.
This is totally wrong. Shit running down your legs is something that happens to tons of runners, and is not tied to gender. If anything, it amps your cred as a serious athlete. Your breast flying out is going to be the subject of animated gifs and is going to make your breast the focal point of your life for the next several years. It detracts from your cred as a serious athlete and turns you into a flying breast.
Also, you jerks: the article isn't about her, whatsoever. I just quoted the lede. You're supposed to click through. It's about the anatomical limitations on athleticism caused by breasts, and the culture around it.
Shit running down your legs is something that happens to tons of runners
I suddenly feel much better about the fact that I was terrible at running cross country in high school.
5 occurred to me too, and I was surprised at the lack of chest protectors.
(BTW, eleven weeks post-partum is SO much better than five weeks post-partum. It's still pretty astonishing how little core strength I have.)
If anything, it amps your cred as a serious athlete.
I did not know that.
I like how 26 and 28 work equally well as responses to each other.
Shit running down your legs is something that happens to tons of runners
And bloggers.
I pooped my pants once while running cross-country. But I PRed, so it was worth it.
34 - Right, but I'm saying there was a tradition of cross-sport full-contact fights in Brazil (briefly televised, according to Wikipedia, until a dude got his arm broken in an armbar on live TV) that the Gracies brought to the US in addition to the fighting school of BJJ. I think that was more important to the development of American-style MMAs than, say, shoot wrestling.
42 is a great point, but I wonder if that was really what Ms. Rousey was thinking about or whether it was more instinctive modesty.
51: Probably the latter, though she's not overly modest in general.
(links in 53 aren't quite porn, but probably still NSFW)
Shit running down your legs is something that happens to tons of runners
I did not know that!
Also, heebie, I clicked through before leaving for work and the little I read was interesting. I was completely unaware, for instance, that athletes go in for breast reduction surgery or that gymnasts try to avoid developing them in the first place.
Tip top blogging as usual, h-g!
Thank you, neb. You doing an exemplary demonstration of the syncophantic adoration I strive for, from the larger group.
I did forget to attribute this to Jammies! Thanks, knecht.
55: Me either. You'd think they could have some kind of fiber-loading to go with the carb-loading. Clear the pipes the day before a run.
Do your breasts ever interfere with your blogging output?
I remember hearing about the seemingly excruciatingly painful lengths to which female lugers will go to keep their breasts tamped down.
Do your breasts ever interfere with your blogging output?
Nursing does.
62: How could breasts interfere with spitting?
See, Mobes, when my mouth's full...
42: Your breast flying out is going to be the subject of animated gifs and is going to make your breast the focal point of your life for the next several years.
See Brandi Chastain for even the PG-13 version of this. I was amazed that there was any "controversy" whatsoever about that.
Yeah, my french boxing mates who've done MMA have gone in with what are often pretty effective (even in MMA) stand-up skills
No matter how good you are at telling jokes, it's probably not going to be that effective in the ring.
The 80s, which had BOTH widespread Foxy Boxing and Female Mud Wrestling, tried to solve this problem before feminists self-defeatingly destroyed those sports.
I'm actually surprised that breasts are as much of an athletic issue as the article suggests. I mean, gymnasts, sure, there are reasons for them to be generally skin and bones, which means minimal breasts, but for anything where being not-starved is workable, are breasts (assuming we're not talking about something a couple of standard deviations larger than average) really that much of a handicap?
I guess (a) I've never been that much of an athlete, and (b) my breasts aren't all that big, so personal experience doesn't tell me much. But mostly, if I'm wearing any reasonable kind of bra, I could run for a year and never think about it.
My feet go "pins and needles" after four miles or so. Should I put a bra on my foot?
This place, the Hollywood Tropicana, was a female mud-wrestling emporium that was as much a part of the 80s hair metal scene as Gazzari's or cocaine. Unfortunately it closed before I was old enough to go. Fucking stupid stupid passage of time.
68: hey, I just flew in tonight, and boy are my arms broken!
70
I'm actually surprised that breasts are as much of an athletic issue as the article suggests.
It seems like one of those things where the difference may be small in absolute numbers, but it adds up in the aggregate, and there's no other way to get that advantage. A pair of C cups is apparently a total of 2 lbs., if I remember the article correctly, so that might be only 1.5 percent of an athlete's body weight, but given that records are often measured in tenths of a second or fractions of an inch...
70: I think it depends not only on size but also how elastic your breasts are, etc, etc.* I've always found that my breasts impede running -- while it's not the most uncomfortable thing about running to me, it certainly isn't pleasant to experience that much movement.
*And now I'm singing, 'Do your boobs hang low, do they wobble to and fro...' as this line of thought has apparently led my brain straight back to camp and 13-year-old embarrassment.
A pair of C cups is apparently a total of 2 lbs., if I remember the article correctly
One of the most annoying things! Not all C cups are the same size, as cup size is a matter of the difference between the under-breast measurement and the across-breast measurement. A pair of 32Cs and a pair of 40Cs are not the same volume at all.
(And/but having a wider ribcage to distribute the latter across makes a difference in unweildiness too, of course. Also, the shape of breasts varies rather a lot.)
They're like snowflakes. No two alike and the ones in southern California are probably fake.
I couldn't even find a breast protector when I wanted one for mosh swing. Mid to late 80s, I guess. The world was different before the Internet.
Has anyone here tried Jockey's new bra fitting?
Nancy Hogshead-Makar (three-time Olympics medalist): Most top swimmers with bigger breasts tend to compete in the backstroke. Don't know if she has the data on that.
81: Because showoffs hydrodynamics.
70: I didn't get into exercising until college in part because I thought it was something I just couldn't do given that I had a hard time finding sports bras that fit. It's been a huge* problem in my particular case (though it needn't have been had I come from a sportier family.)
*har har har
Re:72
That led me to fire up Spotify and listen to some Faster Pussycat, and similar. It stands up better than I would have expected.
86: Russ Meyer really knew how to pick an actress.
5, 42, 49: Grete Waitz is far from the only athlete who's had that sort of accident.
42
As I recall, Uta Pippig won the Boston Marathon covered in not just diarrhea but also menstrual blood. That's clearly gendered, and yet she was widely considered a badass for it.
Quoted from the link in 88
Jesus pooped.
This is controversial, no?
Is this crazy or what?
Yet for all the insular contentment Russell has always sought in his life, his play was marked by the most extraordinary intensity. If he threw up before a big game, the Celtics were sure everything would be all right. If he didn't, then Boston's coach, Red Auerbach, would tell Russell to go back to the toilet--order him to throw up.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1015865/4/
This is controversial, no?
Not since Nicaea, surely.
92: Yes, I should have posted as Opinionated Valentinus.
Or maybe Opinionated Guy Who Only Remembers One Thing from Kundera Novel.
89: she was widely considered a badass for it
Pippig won Boston three times in a row. I think that independently established her badass credentials (best time: 2:21:45).
That's a poor choice of compliments, there.
My knees have been too fucked up for running for a while now, but I pooped my pants while running earlier this year. It wasn't a race, so it was definitely worth it to me to try to control the situation. I had to walk home hoping the poop stayed contained by my underwear. It did. Then when I got home my roommate started talking to me, and I didn't feel like saying, hi, I have poop in my pants I need to deal with, so I had to talk to her for a little bit before I could duck out of the conversation, throw away my underwear and clean off my poop. I have never told anyone that story until now. The end.
Peeing while running I do on purpose and as a matter of course.
How did it take 98 comments to get to...
TITTIES! HOORAY!!
Grete Waitz won the NYC marathon with shit running down her legs
Grete Waitz is a maniraptoran?
Real women don't poop, they glisten with tan.
If you pooped and then smeared the poop all over yourself would you get the same tan effect or does it have to like seep our through your pores or something?
I went swimming again today. I don't think pooping would have been tolerated, but I didn't even piss in the water.
Given that I've never pooped or peed while exercising, I'm going to figure that means I've never given 100%. I'm fine with that.
I had always wondered where the extra 10% in "giving 110%" came from.
I did get some kind of explosive pooping after I ran my half marathon, but that was after I'd been done for a couple of hours.
This thread is horrifying. I'm afraid I will never run again.
Has anyone here tried Jockey's new bra fitting?
I read an article about it, and I guess the idea behind it makes sense, but I found myself thinking that the different cup volumes are already available, just from various different brands. If you're fanatical about bra fit (as I became after passing a certain size), it's not that difficult to get a general idea of the fit tendencies of different brands and cup shapes of different styles of bras. Or that could be something a really good bra fitter could help with. I guess not everyone has access to that, hence the Jockey mail order Fit Kit thingie.
Only this place could turn a thread that started with such promise (see 98) and make it all turn to poop. What's wrong with you people?
110: Better than never pooping again.
115: ten years ago it would have stayed on topic. Five years ago it would have been about food. In ten years it'll eventually turn to obituaries and/or grandchildren.
Never mind Jockey's new athletic bar; does Depends make a runner's diaper? Because apparently that is a seriously underserved market opportunity.
something a really good bra fitter could help with
What I lack in experience I make up for in élan.
McGhee counsels women to engage in physical activity that puts less of a strain on their breasts. But as the breasts get bigger, the field narrows. Busty ballet dancers are transferred to hip-hop. Postpubescent gymnasts get put on the rings. Runners are instructed to play in the water instead. If all else fails: yoga.
Not even entirely true! Doing plow pose with large breasts can make breathing pretty challenging, because the breasts mash all up against your neck, chin, and mouth. You really have to focus on elongating your neck and creating space in there.
ten years ago it would have stayed on topic had three comments, two of them by Majik Johnson.
123: That just looks really fucking painful regardless.
That Boston Marathon Pippig set her best time in had an insane tailwind. IYKWIM. Also, wikipedia says Pippig was nearly banned for steroids, but it turns out various factors including bowel disease were messing up the test results.
123-whereas well endowed men... Oh look, that's actually one of the search results.
We've discovered a truly novel form of sports thread.
The search results in 123 have a nice balance between yoga and snow removal equipment.
Nor wonder how I lost my Fun;
Oh! Cælia, Cælia Cælia ru----
Uhhh ... well, I'm actually kind of relieved to know that when I do speed-walking (which is not running, but kind of like?) my poop-meter amps up.
It all makes sense, right? Your metabolism is accelerated. Right?
74 difference may be small in absolute numbers, but it adds up in the aggregate, and there's no other way to get that advantage.
Aggregate of only two ?
A pair of C cups is apparently a total of 2 lbs., if I remember the article correctly, so that might be only 1.5 percent of an athlete's body weight, but given that records are often measured in tenths of a second or fractions of an inch.
If only there was some protrusion to get the top front of the torso to the photo finish a moment earlier !
121:
When you're sliding into third
And you've jut laid down a turd
Defecatiooooooooooooooon!
I can't believe you people have let 36 hang lifeless from the branch. Philistines.
OT: Does the Cooking Channel purposely seek out obnoxious hosts available? I want to cause harm to B/obb/y F/la/y and the twerp on "Eat St.," in particular.
Suddenly, everyone was eaten by a shark.
Grete Waitz won the NYC marathon with shit running down her legs
I saw this happen to Uta Pippig in Boston sometime in the late 90s. I think it was a combination of menstrual blood and diarrehea because it was bright orange. I hereby delegate Apo to find a video.
"Automation turns a simple, robust plow into a highly efficient mining machine." IYTWIMAITYD.
||
Speaking of athletics, anyone else here doing deadlifts regularly? Because consider doing a double overhand grip rather than the over under grip. Because apparently a heavy load on that under hand can rip the bicep tendon off of the bone. As seen here and here. Going to an ortho surgeon this afternoon for confirmation but I'm pretty sure I did exactly this last night and googling around it appears it's more common than I realized. Fixing it is surgical re-attachment. Boo.
|>
Holy crap dude, that's terrible.
Ewwwww, gswift, best wishes for a quick and as-close-to-pain-free-as-possible recovery.
There's no way I'm going to watch those videos. Hope your healing goes well.
Heh, my wife was with me at the gym and she was pretty severely grossed out, once she got over the shock of me turning snow white and clutching my arm for a couple minutes after I dropped the bar. Surprisingly little pain after the initial incident. It's a tad tender and you can see one bicep is shorter than the other. At least it's my left, so not as big a pain in the ass as it could be.
No pooping. Possibly some non family rec center profanity when I looked down at my arm and noticed that big new gap between my elbow and bicep.
That's awful, gswift. How long is the expected recovery? One more piece of evidence in favor of my policy of not lifting heavy things.
Probably going to be on desk duty for two or three months. Gets me out of the horrendous kevlar in the summer heat but boring as hell.
Well, then we'll see you here!
Word. Could be worse. From what I've read on ortho sites and powerlifters who've done it full recovery is typical and re-occurrence is rare.
Re-occurrence is rare because it heals well or because after it happens you never want to lift anything?
Probably rare because they apparently re-attach the tendon with a piece of metal. That guy in the first vid posted a follow up a year later and says he's back to deadlifting and doing more than he was when he got injured, but is doing double overhand grip now and using straps on the big weights.
You're so gross! Feel better soon.
Jeez. gswift, that sucks. A little beyond my usual "Just get some rest, maybe throw some ice at it from the couch in front of the TV" advice.
Geez, gswift. Way to go non-compostable. (Family joke, possibly a bit PNWish. ) May your recovery be swift and complete.
Wow. Hope the doctor's visit goes well!
Oh my god that's awful. Best of luck with the recovery. This will be my new excuse for not doing upper-body exercise.
156: Your family isn't the only one that appreciates the need to get rid of potentially-identifying implants before disposing of the body after it murders somebody.
once she got over the shock of me turning snow white
I've seen pictures of you. How could she tell?
(Seriously though, sorry to hear it! On the plus side, it's a pretty common injury among professional bull riders, and it doesn't seem to keep many of them out of action for too long.)
Good luck with the surgery, Gswift.
Ouch! (I, uh, had no idea that could happen but no more alternating grip for me!) Hope the doctor has encouraging news for you.
Yow. A friend's father once snapped an achilles tendon while playing tennis, and that was my prior measure of horrible things that could happen to your tendons. But now I know it can happen to your biceps as well. I'll be trying to think about anything else now.
The brain is the biggest tendon in the body.
It's my second favorite organ.
Ouch, and I hope your surgeon is most skilled. And not a total jerk.
164: I snapped mine doing head lifts.
Eeek. Sometimes I try to think of my body as just equipment, but... the failure modes always get to me.
re: 163
One of my former club-mates snapped his achilles in a competition bout. I was cornering him at the time, too. Oddly, it was very undramatic. He had some sort of twinge of pain as he was moving and in between rounds he complained that his ankle felt a bit odd. I asked if he wanted to go on, he said he was fine, he thought he'd just twisted it slightly or something. After a minute more he couldn't continue. Afterwards he was stretching and trying to work out why his ankle felt odd. It was only later he realised he'd snapped his achilles.
It wasn't a dramatic painful event in the moment, although it took him a few months to recover. It might be he's particularly stoic, or maybe it snapped in a particular way that doesn't lead to explosive pain.
I've seen another club mate snap or tear a knee ligament, too. Sort of his own fault. He kept stepping on his opponent's lead foot [against the rules, and a bit of a dirty move] and eventually his opponent pulled his foot to one side suddenly causing him to lose his balance. Knee ligament went. Again, at the time he thought it was just a slight strain, it was only after he realised he'd torn it.
There was a terrifying World Wrestling Federation match in the late '90s where one wrestler* visibly snapped a ligament attaching his quadriceps muscle to his knee (the hypertrophied muscle accordioned under the skin like a falling-down stocking) and finished the match, foreign object and all.
* OK, OK, it was Triple H, the Cerebral Assassin. Are you happy now?
Get out all your injury stories here, folks, for I am not clicking on this thread anymore.
I picked off a hang nail and there was a little blood.
I, uh, had no idea that could happen but no more alternating grip for me!
I didn't either and I'm kind of pissed at myself in a way for not knowing. I've been doing these lifts for like ten years.
snapped an achilles tendon while playing tennis, and that was my prior measure of horrible things that could happen to your tendons
This sucks but I think the Achilles sounds way worse. At least I've got my mobility and will still be able to do a lot of things like leg work while I'm rehabbing it.
It might be he's particularly stoic, or maybe it snapped in a particular way that doesn't lead to explosive pain.
I wish mine had gone that way. There was horrendously painful ripping spasming stuff going on around my elbow. I dropped the bar and sat down and just kind of sat there for a minute while I had the shakes and sweated like crazy and the worst of it passed pretty quick. But then I looked at it and saw the big gap where the lower part of my bicep usually is and knew it was doctor time.
We had someone fighting for the first time a few weeks back who broke his ankle in a match, too. He thought he'd just strained it. It sounds horrifically violent but in none of these cases did the injury come from any contact by their opponent [it's controlled contact anyway, rather than full contact]. Both the ankle break and the achilles happened while the person was standing a good 6 ft away from their opponent, and was purely because they stepped or twisted awkwardly.