Conservatives are more likely to register physical disgust at socially questionable behavior (such as sharing a spoon) than liberals are.
I used to be a moderate, but swine flu killed everybody to the left of me.
it's possible there's some racial animus folded into all this
Yes, it's possible. Also, it's possible that the transition of the Deep South from staunchly Democratic to staunchly Republican after the passage of the Civil Rights Act might have some racial underpinnings.
A lot of the things you list are actually personality traits which go along with fear of outsiders and lower castes. You don't need to mention racism as a cause here, because you are getting at the cluster of personality traits that causes both conservatism and racism.
People with a strong need for social order who grew up in a white dominated society are going to feel anxiety at seeing a black president address school children.
Shit, I'm supposed to be working.
4 seems to exhibit a heightened startle response.
Nice try, but the real answer is that Wingnuts are:
(1) Crazy
(2) Stupid
(3) Evil
traits which go along with fear of outsiders and lower castes
Except that Obama is neither an outsider nor of a lower caste unless you add race into the equation.
LIKE HELL HE'S NOT A LOW-CASTE OUTSIDER.
7: Well, yeah. That's why I talked about how someone who needs clear social order *and who was raised in a white dominated society* would feel having Obama address his kids.
I'm agreeing with you. This is about race. Racial politics happens to be backed up by the instincts and personality traits Masket is referring to.
Conservatives are artists. Give them any number of raw materials, and they will use them to fashion something distinctive and unique. They truly transcend whatever supplies they happen to have on hand at the moment.
7 -- No more than Clinton, sure. But that's not the Bush caste . . .
7
Except that Obama is neither an outsider ...
He is a bit of an outsider in that his father and stepfather were not American and he lived outside the United States for part of his childhood.
12: Bush isn't out screaming at the town halls.
14: Also an outsider to the right wing "good" castes, namely born-again evangelicals of the Saddlback stripe, Freidmanites, Militarists, and Good Ol' Boys. He is a member of a number of right wing "bad" castes, such as pointy-headed intellectuals, effete bicoastal snobs, and community organizers, in addition to being black.
Bill Clinton was shellacked by the right over essentially caste issues. The famous Broder line is a case in point. He was both a member of the wrong castes (from a wingnut perspective) and a traitor to those good castes in which he was entitled to membership.
Morphin' dogs into cats is a crime against God and Nature, and a sure indication of a diseased social imagination. Must be Endtimes.
Got my pitchfork and ticket to Israel!
Conservatives are more comfortable where there's a clear social order.
Here's your racism. Also 16 above, castes.
"Lenin" of Lenin's Tomb has been telling me for a month that race is class and class is race. (And gender of course) Has something to do with obvious physical markers used to establish heirarchies within labour in order to control labour.
Capitalism must stratify labor to dis-organize it.
Do I have to talk about Republicans? Suppose not.
Except that Obama is neither an outsider nor of a lower caste unless you add race into the equation.
Good thing race has never been a key part of outsider and caste status in America, then.
Capitalism must stratify labor to dis-organize it.
I'm picturing a giant lasagna of workers.
20: People, not everyone here is presenting dichotomies.
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Female dog swam across a lake this morning, on her own whim, without my prompting or call. Male dog followed. Small lake, say 150 feet. She is usually the cautious unenterprising dog, but ya know, I guess she just fucking felt like it.
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He is a bit of an outsider in that his father and stepfather were not American and he lived outside the United States for part of his childhood.
In the popular imagination, this is correct.
Empirically, it should be noted that there are 16 million minor children of immigrants in the U.S. right now, and millions more adult children of immigrants.
Also, several million children of parents employed in the military, diplomatic corps, and for multinational corporations, who "lived outside the U.S. for part of their childhoods."
I really want to see the dog morphing into a cat.
Empirically, it should be noted that there are 16 million minor children of immigrants in the U.S. right now, and millions more adult children of immigrants.
Every one of them an outsider.
Also, several million children of parents employed in the military, diplomatic corps, and for multinational corporations, who "lived outside the U.S. for part of their childhoods."
These folks, on the other hand, are 100% insider.
24
Empirically, it should be noted that there are 16 million minor children of immigrants in the U.S. right now, and millions more adult children of immigrants.
Obama's father and stepfather were not immigrants.
22: For everybody on this thread, we can create a field called 'dichot' which will be '1' if that commenter is presenting dichotomies and zero otherwise. If we're going to present dichotomies, we may as well be complete about it.
I'm so liberal I just call dogs "cats" at the outset.
Obama does have a genuinely unusual background, although his adult life has been conventional.
But if we had a President Hilary, wouldn't the right be screaming that she's a communist feminazi, even though her background is as conventional as it gets?
Thanks for the morphing. I presume that "liberals are quicker than conservatives to call it a cat" means they have an earlier point of calling-it-a-cat, contrasted with "Conservatives are slower to acknowledge that a change is occurring". I think I'd answer that it's a picture of a damn non-existent special effect until the end, when you have the "real" cat. Because dogs don't actually change into cats. It's not like "when is it a heap?"
32: Yes. The dividing line is party, and Democrats are all pointy-headed commie faggorts. Obama's skin color just adds a layer of racist frosting on the hatecake.
But if we had a President Hilary, wouldn't the right be screaming that she's a communist feminazi, even though her background is as conventional as it gets?
Probably. I'm sure Obama's race plays a role in all this, but I'm equally sure that this is at least as much about the right and its obsessive paranoid tendenices as it is about Obama.
Though I'm not sure the dividing line is really party per se. I think party is probably a proxy for a more fundamental divide (in the conservative mind).
30: I fear I will have problems with this, but I'm not exactly sure why.
34: And my new favorite word: Faggorts. Pronounced Fah-djorzuh
party is probably a proxy for a more fundamental divide
Yes, but it's an increasingly precise proxy.
Every one of them an outsider.
Ask my son. Or DK's Rory. Probably a lot less alienated than your typical grad student (although my impression of the latter is undoubtedly skewed by hanging around with you folks).
I wonder how many of the 16 million have, like the President, a parent who is a citizen born in the US.
38: What's to worry. Everybody gets a zero or a one and then analyst has it easier.
What if everyone is a bunch of zeroes? What if one truly proves to be the loneliest number? What then?
44: If the number of cases of 'one' drop below a certain number, logistic regression models won't fit the data. But that's why Stata gives us negative binomial regression.
7 s/b he livedwas born outside the United States for part of his childhood if the truth be known.
Sometimes I have a heightened startle response. Like, if I'm on an elevator and the doors open and someone starts to step in as I'm exiting, I jump. Often.
Oh noes please don't let me turn into a conservative!
42: Rory (like our President) does still get to be an outsider via that broken home I provide. But of course that still leaves her an outsider only amongst a particular demographic.
Hmm. Hunting is a pretty sure way to elevate your startle response.
Oh noes please don't let me turn into a conservative!
I love telling this story, so I'm sure I'm repeating myself. When Rory was maybe 3, she was putting up a fight over bedtime. As a loving mother, I offered to sing her lullabies or read her stories.
"I don't like music! I don't like books!" she protested.
"Not a fan of the arts," I say, wryly. "You'll make a fine Republican."
At this, she burst into tears. Amongst the sobs, she sputtered out, "But... But... I don't want to be a Republican."
50: You're repeating yourself, but the story remains charming.
My three-year old now assumes that we have a book for anything he can think of. He'll say, "Read me a story about Stompy," where Stompy is something that he just came-up with himself two seconds before because he felt like stomping on something that we didn't think should be stomped. (He's very big on making every action he likes into a character that does that and now we have to supply a back-story to all of them.)
47: Until I read the link, and the link from there, I wondered the same thing.
Or rather, I wondered if it meant "conservative" in only the political sense or also in the apolitical sense of a personality resistant to change, or even more the latter meaning than the former. I'm pretty conservative in my personal life - I don't get out all that much, I'm a creature of habit, I rarely pursue variety for its own sake - even though I find bob smarter than Shearer. And, indeed, I do tend to flinch at loud clattering noises. I mean, if I just let the basket full of recyclables fall into the bin in the garage, I will be almost in tears by the time it's done from one long flinch. (As for the other three measures, though, I'm pretty sure I don't tend to physically register disgust, like I said I don't get out much but I'm not sure if that's the same as actually being uncomfortable in a crowd, and I have no idea about what I'd call a morphing picture without being forewarned.)
You should write a book about everything he thinks you should have a book for. And then sell it to people with children who will think, oh, how cute, he wrote a book for his son!
50: Liberal indoctrination at work. (And a cute story.)
47: I was going to make a similar comment. I show many, many signs of emotional conservatism. I have an especially acute disgust reaction, especially around partially rotting food. (Also, I hate crowds and startle easily.)
Haidt suggests that what makes liberals liberal is not the lack of certain emotions, but the belief that those emotional responses don't count as "moral." On Haidt's tests, I show up has having almost no purity/sanctity emotions (the ones backed up by a feeling of disgust) at all. Some of this might be because I don't interpret my frequent sense disgust as a moral emotion. It may also be the things I am disgusted by. I am obsessed with food politics, for instance.
I have no idea about what I'd call a morphing picture
Morphy?
What if everyone is a bunch of zeroes? What if one truly proves to be the loneliest number? What then?
What iif God was one of us?
50: At this, she burst into tears. Amongst the sobs, she sputtered out, "But... But... I don't want to be a Republican."
'If you just eat your granola, behaving nicely towards people of all creeds, colors, and nations, and never date anyone named Chet, you'll never be a Republican.'
52: 49: Not as effective as being hunted.
Quite.
3: are going to feel anxiety at seeing a black president address school children.
Gee. I felt major irritation when Reagan did it, more irritated when Bush did it, and now I'm really goddamn irritated by these fucking idiots, AND I'm irritated that Obama is doing it.
I do not like this King President shit.
max
['Why not just make 'em watch the state of the union or whatever?']
"So why is the Right acting the way it's acting?""
Its rumoured that they lost an election or two. Apparently they're not big fans of democracy.
55: There would be some disputes about the narrative. Some of us thing that "Slappy gets a timeout and no ice cream" is perfectly reasonable. Others express the view that Slappy should be allowed to follow his muse without negative consequences.
Also, typos might stop me. "thing" s/b "think".
I've never connected by complete lack of a startle response to my politics, but it's suddenly making sense.
Ah, but if you put it down in a book, it becomes the real narrative. And then when disputes arise you can just point to the book as arbiter.
What if one truly proves to be the loneliest number? What then?
Then everything is less than zero.
Hey! Oo hey-ey.
65: You'd think that, but those of us who want Slappy to slap can't read and have, repeatedly, called for new endings to written stories. I'm fairly certain that the version of Little Red Riding Hood that I now tell is closer to the original ending than the one in the book that I'm supposed to be reading. Anyway, nobody gets out of the wolf's belly unless you want to hear all kinds of complaining.
I have a hair-trigger startle response (I blame Dr. Oops, who devoted our childhood to startling me), but a fairly low level of disgust-reactions. Apparently my non-squeamishness is more powerful than my jumpiness.
My cat is extremely jumpy. Good thing she can't vote.
The notion of a third party jumpy cat movement certainly does give one paws.
In 2025, the Democrats will be the party of furries.
But if we had a President Hilary, wouldn't the right be screaming that she's a communist feminazi,
Due to a dramatic failure of pessimistic political imagination, I assumed during the primaries that Hilary would drive the nutters much more batty than the nice black man. (But who knows, maybe it would be even worse, but apo is probably right: fascist communist = Democrat, really fucking scary fascist communist = winning Democrat.)
71 makes me wonder what the partisan breakdown of the furry crowd is.
SHUT UP!! DEMOCRATS ARE THE PUSSIES!
You say "pussy" like it's a bad thing, Dick. What's with that?
re: 68
Yeah, ditto. Someone made me literally jump this morning. Loomed up behind me when I was walking to work; really really close. Given that I was taking a short cut through the woods behind my work, and there are currently some homeless people encamped on the side of the little burn there, it did make me startle. For a fraction of a second I was convinced he was he going to try to mug me, and then I realised he was just some other guy* taking the same short cut.
My wife, who doesn't have the same startle reflex would have laughed long and heartily at my reaction if she'd been there.
* some other guy without the common sense to give someone a little bit of space when they are trundling through some dark bit of wood ...
And re: squeamishness - I don't like rotting food, but when I worked as a cleaner I regularly cleaned shit and bodily fluids and it didn't really bother me at all.
when I worked as a cleaner I regularly cleaned shit and bodily fluids and it didn't really bother me at all
All the parents nod in agreement.
A high school acquaintance facebook friend just informed me (and the rest of facebook) that she will be "standing up for all rights" at the March On Washington tomorrow. A few months ago she was all "hey let's go out for coffee! we're both on the east coast!" I really hope she doesn't think this is a good opportunity for us to catch up.
On a more cheerful note, maybe if a bunch of counter-protesters show up with scary masks and noisemakers, the Glenn Beck crowd can be startled away.
Mmmm. Nutter butters. Haven't had one of those in the longest time.
Now I'm hungry.
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I'm at MSP waiting for a flight to DC, and they keep paging Rep. Ellison, who's been upgraded.
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Well, I don't see Al Franken on the plane.
I got into graduate school because United upgraded my diploma to 'Summa' on my flight to a campus visit.
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Health Care Lobbyist announces fundraiser for Pelosi the day afer she backs off public option.
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86: Summa them want to be a-bused.
54: And, indeed, I do tend to flinch at loud clattering noises. I mean, if I just let the basket full of recyclables fall into the bin in the garage, I will be almost in tears by the time it's done from one long flinch.
Heavens, yes. Loud noises are a negative. I have trouble with housemates who stomp up and down stairs, and slam doors (not in anger, just slamming in and out), for example. I reflexively say, "Sorry" if I mistakenly allow a door to slam myself. Please walk softly!
It's an association with anger to some extent, though: I was recently frustrated/angry enough to deliberately cause a great clatter (for which I instantly apologized). It's all associated with yelling. Just no good at all.
Loud noises are a negative.
You should have children, parsimon! (I'm totally with you on loud noises, unfortunately.)
90: It's a bit too late for that.
But yes, exhibitions of what I associate with angry-behavior are a problem. I'm not sure where it comes from. In any case, not all loud noises are troublesome: loud restaurants, or fireworks (except the sharp-banging kind), or even bands, can be alright, I assume because the noise is ambient in some sense.
The OP suggests that an aversion to sharp noises is a conservative trait (I haven't read the studies alluded to). Which reminds me that the other thing I wish Ogged had explained was his remark late in the day that he's fundamentally conservative. I'll have to ask him someday.
fundamentally conservative
He's conservative where it counts.
Some of this might be because I don't interpret my frequent sense disgust as a moral emotion. It may also be the things I am disgusted by. I am obsessed with food politics, for instance.
It's been interesting watching my own taboo/disgust reactions changing as I get deeper and deeper into food politics. I crossed a line somewhere in March--I have difficulty looking at the giant Wall of Hormel at target, knowing that each and every one of those animals lived its life knee deep in shit and died in mortal terror. Same thing with non-pasture-raised chickens.
(Don't get me wrong--I still love meat--just can't hack the factory farm stuff anymore.)
Likely soon to be phantom 96: Moderates liberate, and call *that* censoring.
just can't hack the factory farm stuff anymore
Ever watched an eighteen-wheeler driving at highway speeds carrying stacks upon stacks of one cubic foot cages each holding a chicken? Feathers flying everywhere, a horrible cacophony of squacks. It turns you right off, to put it mildly (not unlike looking at clear-cut forests). God knows about the chickens not visible inside that gigantic stack.
Yet I eat chicken in restaurants occasionally.
I guess "squacks" should be "squawks." And I see you mentioned the chickens.
91: Which reminds me that the other thing I wish Ogged had explained was his remark late in the day that he's fundamentally conservative. I'll have to ask him someday.
Well, he's dead, so he tends to be somewhat resistant to change.
max
['I guess he's more personally conservative than anything.']
Max. Ogged isn't dead. He just left unfogged. I'm sure he's doing fine down in Mexico.
I just saw Y tu mama tambien, and it kind of makes me want to live in Mexico. On the other hand, Amores Perros kind of neutralizes that wish.
Ogged isn't dead.
He has arisen! It's a miracle!
Low-hanging fruit, if ever I saw some.
98: Ever watched an eighteen-wheeler driving at highway speeds carrying stacks upon stacks of one cubic foot cages each holding a chicken?
Hmmph. Ever get behind one of those trucks while riding a motorcycle in an Alabama summer high heat & humidity wave? I came very close to heaving inside the helmet. "Chicken shit" is not a compliment for good reason.
Factory farming is evil. I don't know if third world practices are any less evil though, and Lassie's and Timmy's farm isn't even in re-runs any more.
They have CNN running on the monitor at the baggage carousel. Civilization is over.
On the other hand, I spend a very enjoyable and educational couple of hours with an organic wheat farmer.
106 and 107 are not making me feel better about the long flight I'll be on tomorrow. (It's pretty bad when air travel is so miserable that I question whether it's even worth going to places that I love.)
109: Maybe essear is an organic wheat farmer and is afraid of sitting next to Charley, which is just plain silly. He's great to chat with.
one cubic foot cages each holding a chicken
If they're each holding only one chicken, then standards have actually improved.
It's pretty much three chickens to bucket, isn't it?
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Something horrifying that I feel compelled to share.
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Yeah, and who cares about fish tongues?
It's the imagining of that happening to you that's the horrifying part, teo.
But I see you have the proper skepticism to avoid that pitfall.
Also the reading comprehension:
Fortunately, it doesn't eat human tongues, though it will bite.
Fish?
Yeah, but who cares about them?
I mean, I rank actual fish higher than Phish, so it's of some concern to me.
It's kind of cute, really.
Me and my tongue-replacing isopod, friends 4ever.
It's hard to see how an isopod or two would make Phish any worse.
It happens that I'd just gotten around to reading DFW's "Consider the Lobster" moments before seeing that photo, so I thought, hmm, a little lobster-like snack you carried around with you all the time. But! You wouldn't have a tongue for eating it. Conundrum!
I once caught a fish that had some sort of parasite that kept popping in and out of its mouth while I was taking out the hook. Don't know whether it was a tongue-eater, but it put me off eating fish for several years.
Nope, looks like it's just us guys.
I'm not a guy.
And yes, I read the part about the isopod not going for human tongues, but still! Where are your imaginations!
I'll give you that it is a crafty little parasite, but cute?
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No Phil Goff, no, don't compare yourself to Graham Henry...
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I'm not a guy.
You had been quiet for a while. I thought you'd left.
Where are your imaginations!
I dunno. I see a picture of a thing that doesn't look particularly like it's going to eat my tongue, then I read some text saying that it's not going to eat my tongue, so I conclude that there's no reason to imagine it eating my tongue.
Yes, I did wander off.
And ok, ok. No more suggestion about the lack of imagination. (I was just teasing; I don't literally think that I'll wake up to find an isopod instead of a tongue. But it'd make for a good horror short-story.)
102 I just saw Y tu mama tambien, and it kind of makes me want to live in Mexico.
It made me want to be an economist.
It made me want to die tragically young.
137: I think I missed that. When and why on earth did he do that?
138: teo, you and I are very, very different people.
Does that fish have teeth!?
68: I have a hair-trigger startle response (I blame Dr. Oops, who devoted our childhood to startling me), but a fairly low level of disgust-reactions.
Unless of course it's something that suggests pustules or bubbles.
114 is disgusting and ought to be banned.
More info on the "tongue eating louse". Apparently they're not so bad, really:
This parasite attaches itself at the base of the spotted rose snapper's (Lutjanus guttatus) tongue, entering the fish's mouth through its gills. It then proceeds to extract blood through the claws on its front three pairs of legs. As the parasite grows, less and less blood reaches the tongue, and eventually the organ atrophies from lack of blood. The parasite then replaces the fish's tongue by attaching its own body to the muscles of the tongue stub. The fish is able to use the parasite just like a normal tongue. It appears that the parasite does not cause any other damage to the host fish.[1] Once C. exigua replaces the tongue, some feed on the host's blood and many others feed on fish mucus. They do not eat scraps of the fish's food.[2] This is the only known case of a parasite functionally replacing a host organ.[3]
So they don't actually eat the tongue, they just cause it to atrophy. But then they're nice enough to replace it for their fish companion. Cute and with nice manners!
103: Ogged isn't dead.
He has arisen! It's a miracle!
San Ogged yu mama!
max
['Famous for eating his own tongue in a fit of ecstasy!']
You know that big Zurbarán painting in the Art Institute of Chicago with St Romanus all "my tongue: let me show you it!"? (Here it is, if not). Just imagine how much more awesome it would be with a parasitic faux-tongue emerging from his mouth!
Now photoshopping isopods over the tongues of people in famous disaster photos is the kind of art project I could get behind.
teo, you and I are very, very different people.
Clearly.
Back to topic:
James Kroeger at Mark Thoma's (4:31 AM if link-to-comment doesn't work) discusses why expressions of disgust (with liberals) work for Republicans.
The Negative works. The main periods of Democratic/progressive dominance are when they felt able to openly express and exploit contempt for the opposition, the 30s and 60s. NOT contempt for the policies but contempt for their character.
If anyone has been wondering where Bush has been, it seems he's decided to make speeches in Canada.
Dog morphing into a cat, alternate interpretation.
152: I heard there's a lot of brush up in Canada.
I wish I hadn't seen that tongue-replacing louse. It reminded me of a different DFW text (RIP one year today!), Broom of the System, and a story therein about a woman with a symbiotic relationship with a parasitical toad that lives in a hollow in her neck.
Speaking of symbionts, I am always floored by the fact that there are more cells in your body of other species than there are of your own. I guess I should go find the "Whoa!" thread.
155: Sorry. I found it too disturbing not to share, which perhaps is an argument in and of itself to not share.
It feels a lot shorter than a year since DFW died. I enjoyed reading his old piece on 9/11 yesterday.
Wow, it has been a year. Crazy.
Currently packed onto a plane like one sardine among many, if I get the cliché right. Ugh.
158: But just think, in a few long hours you'll be in Italy!
The Wingnut Woodstock was impressive in its own way. No idea if the people startle easily, but they sure don't seem to know the meaning of "don't" and "walk."
Just think how much improvement the right isopod could effect.
Aw, John Boehner looks sad. Buck up, li'l Boehn!
And: "I'd rather go to bed supperless than rise in debt."
What's stoppin' ya, lady? Federally mandated "eat your supper" laws? Enforced by goons in black helicopters?? On (black) ponies?
Those pictures clearly show the essential tribalism (and intellectual incoherence) of the contemporary right.
Big Death is on their side. I KNEW it!
And I'm sure this guy conscientiously objects to both Medicare and VA benefits.
164: Having gone to the Steelers game Thursday night, I can't say that it was much different. Other than younger, drunker and all wearing Steeler jerseys, but whiiiiiiiiiiite. (Not that I changed the mix one bit, of course.)
Sounds like the ridership on the Green Line out to Maryland after Capitals' games.
Following Bourdieu, such theoretical alternatives may be identified as epistemological-sociological couples ennemis which express objective relationships between adversaries who are at the same time accomplices, who, 'through their very antagonism, demarcate the field of legitimate argument, excluding as absurd, eclectic, or simply unthinkable, any attempts to take up an unforeseen position' (1981:282). Habitualized rivalries close off the field of dispute, precisely because the polemical content of the competing viewpoints is underplayed or denied. The doctrinal opposition is maintained from both ends as a permanent one, and is routinely taken to reflect the natural state or deep structure of reality itself. A theory of intellectual rivalries, by searching out the combative, critical aspects of scientific propositions and concepts, could then show that much of what intellectuals offer as solid principles which are strongly supported by facts, are rationalized inversions of the viewpoints taken by their adversaries, and do not carry much intellectual weight beyond the battleground of polemics itself.Pels, 1998
My personal fave: a huge (4x6 maybe) white flag, with a big black AR-15, and, underneath, COME AND TAKE IT!
172: Clearly she's saying that Obama is a centrist who will deliver us from the evils of the extreme right wing and left wing.
172:That sign says it all. Our enemies can sometimes understand us better than we understand ourselves, an accurate and precise reflection, but reversed or inverted.
An Obamism, or liberalism that defines itself in simultaneous opposition to the two diametrically opposed farpoint ideologies of corporate nationalism and socialist internationalism can only form the "triangulated" apex and midpoint between those repellent historicities.
Like the sign says.
Oi, this one. WTF? Obama is The Joker dressed up as Hitler at a costume party? Or is sort of a reverse Sambo, wearing whiteface and doing whatever the white version of shucking and jiving is? In order to strengthen The Master Race, whoever that might be? Huh?
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High School Acquaintance is updating facebook about the wingfest in DC:
(Wingnut Acquaintance) is back from the March on DC!!!! They said CNN reported 5,000 demonstrators. I was part of a crowd of 1.2 MILLION according to the DC Police. I got many Thumbs up and requests for pictures with my "YOU LIE!" sign. Jim got pats on the back for his "STAY AWAY FROM MY CHILDREN!" Mom's asked "Will YOU pay my taxes, Mr. Obama?" Yes! We came, we protested and we were heard! WE THE PEOPLE ARE COMING FOR YOU!
[comment on update] You didn't really expect the Communist News Network (CNN) to report the truth, did you? Glad it all went well. Would have been good to be able to go to.
(Wingnut acquaintance) I was so stoked to attend this. It's said we surpassed the Million Man March of the mid 90's though that will be proven or disproven later. We surpassed the Vietnam Protests of the 60's. It was a great feeling to be walking from Freedom Plaza west of the White House to the Capital. The Inaugural route in reverse! I think they may have heard us. But just to be sure "CAN YOU HEAR US NOW!!!!!!!!"
Crazy, crazy, crazy.
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This guy has a helpful spirit, making sure that his readers understand what the "=" sign stands for, and helpfully pluralizing it so no-one gets confused.
His citation format needs a little work though.
177: Further evidence of a need to stay classy.
As a consequence, the nomadic subject is not as universalistic and disinvested as Pels suggests: it is rather the way of refiguring a subject position that is politically invested in the task of redefining his/her own accountability. The nomadic subject is a conceptual form of self-reflexivity which is specifically addressed to the subjects who occupy the centre. Deleuze defines them as: "male/white/heterosexual/educated/speaking a standard European language/living in urban centres/owning property'.I have argued that the crisis of representation of this dominant subject needs to be read in the context of the decline of Europe as a world power. It is precisely in this context that the appeal to nomadic subjectivity, with its explicit Nietzschean overtones, is a way of destabilizing the centre of the former phallogocentric sovereign subject. Nomadic deterritorialization is a clear blow to the very system of rational consciousness which is
best embodied by philosophers like Pels, for whom thinking and knowing are synonymous with a normative exercise of reason. Nomadic subjectivity
refers to the need to unfold possibilities of alternative becomings which would undo the monolithic power of the phallogocentric subject. Deleuze's work is about the undoing of identities based on this premise. In my work, I have developed this insight first into a critique of the masculinism of this system and, more recently, in the direction of a radical relocation of whiteness and thus a critique of Eurocentrism.
Rosi Braidotti
I think I need to stop trolling and watch the Jason Stethem movie.
And I did not know that Phantom of the Opera was based on Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice. But if Shakespeare said it, I'm sure it must be true (see here).
This one is really quite helpful in clearing up the confusion of 172.
Regardless, this man is apparently very worried or upset or something about a straight line!
This woman is very thoughtful with how she has underlined and highlighted the important parts of her message for those of us who only have time to skim.
[...] To hear her tell it, today's protest was bigger than the inauguration. She even used a picture obviously taken from another date to "prove" it - and might have gotten away with it, too...if the flags were at half-staff today. They aren't. But just for giggles, lets do a comparison. Here is a picture of the mall on January 20, 2009 - Inauguration day: [PIC]
And here is a pic snapped by my friend Kombiz Lavasany, who was actually there today, of the National Mall at the height of Beckstock: [PIC of empty space on the Mall]max
185: Did everyone see the announcement that the Census Bureau has formally asked ACORN not to help with outreach next year? It still amazes me that it has become such a flashpoint. I kind of wish there was a well-funded PR squad that could play defense in these situations, since most organizations are so poorly designed to do it themselves.
DRUNK SENATORS R US!
max
['Now with the miracle ingredient Fraudulin!']
185- Oh my god! SGCCHCPAANC! It all makes sense now! I'm out of here, heading to... where do right wingers want to move to escape Obama, the left-wing equivalent of France or Canada? Argentina maybe?
190: I'm now officially convinced that "socialism" and "communism" have become the equivalents of "motherf***er" and "bastard" in that no one ever uses them to mean the thing they literally mean? Or even uses them to accuse someone of the thing they literally mean?
Right, now I really am off to paint.
193: Somalia's remarkably free of an influential central government.
Based on the signs, a lot of the wingnuts seem to be convinced that because there are some people titled "czars" in Washington, that's a clear sign that Obama wants to turn the US into the USSR.
The fact that George W. Bush raised the number of czars all the way up to 35 (there were only 7 under Clinton), whereas under Obama that number has reduced to 31, is, I'm sure, beside the point.
197: Uh, not to mention that the Tsardom of Russian ended with the Revolution of 1917, which ushered in what became the USSR. Rather incurious people, I'd say.
Is "Czar" even officially in any of their titles? Usually they're called something like, "deputy undersecretary for the promotion of healthy school lunches," and it's just the press that refers to them as, "The Lunch Czar."
199: That just shows how tricksy Obama is!
197: The complaints about "czars" is the latest conservative meme.
See, let's see, the fight against Cass Sunstein's nomination -- this was a topic a few days ago. I will try to find a link, but it maybe have come up here.
Further to 201, which was a bit ungrammatical, it's this article that I refer to. Searching the site for his name reveals to me that he's now been confirmed.
The point is that these people are captivated by the notion that, as the linked article puts it,
Obama is attempting to expand the number of "czars" in order to sneak radicals into his administration
Rather incurious people, I'd say.
That's putting it politely. This gallery of signs that LGM linked to is roughly 200% pure awesome.
HEY BARRY... SHOW U.S. YOUR SMALLPOX VACCINATION
Oh. Like he can't just bring radicals in by bus or limo.
max
['His last name starts with an O!!!' 'No shit, really? Fuck.']
205: The woman in IMG_1512 has apparently never heard of the word 'capri'.
max
['I bet 'clam-diggers' was a shocking obscenity.']
This one two punch is something special.
I rode my bike down there today. Very strange. It was so not a DC crowd -- overwhelmingly white, overwhelmingly older, disproportionately male. But also just the way they looked and dressed stuck out -- like badly dressed tourists.
I saw a lot of signs demanding an audit of the Fed (which apparently is a Ron Paul thing), a lot about reading the bill, and a lot of "Don't Tread on Me" flags. There was no coherent message.
The crowd was not huge. I got there after the march but during the rally. Pennsylvania Avenue was open up to between 3rd and 4th streets; the crowd was mostly right in front of the Capitol up to 3rd street, and there were some people on the Mall across 3rd street, but not many.
'His last name starts with an O!!!' 'No shit, really? Fuck.'
Oh, so it's about the Irish, is it? Figures.
This guy doesn't appear to be trying very hard.
208: This one two punch is something special.
That one would work a lot better if she hasn't used pictures. It looks like she's saying 'What's the difference between The Cleveland and the White House?'
'Uh...I dunno, what the fuck is The Cleveland?'
209: It was so not a DC crowd -- overwhelmingly white, overwhelmingly older, disproportionately male.
Iowa White Bread. Now with 50% extra nuts!
210: Oh, so it's about the Irish, is it? Figures.
That's what the Irish always say.
max
['I bet there's a lot of irish in that crowd.']
That's what the Irish always say.
It's possible.
Anyway, what's it have to do with capri pants, Max? That woman was just rolling her pants up.
As for 211's link: that guy's just never been to a demonstration before.
Reviewing, I see I sound like I'm apologizing for all those people. Weird.
213: Anyway, what's it have to do with capri pants, Max?
Deck shoes, the blouse with the extra shirt. The outfit was made for capris. So she's got rolled up jeans.
Perhaps she suffers from hot calves?
max
['It makes no sense.']
215: You are making a fashion statement?
My system just recovered from a "serious error." I should take care of that. It's not a good time for that.
Howabout we agree to agree that Lady Liberty will rise from the dead.
max
['In a limited edition doll perhaps.']
OT: They do things differently up north, don't they?
O, Canada!
max
['Kind of like a snake.']
218: They sure do:
This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions.
They don't show even a description. What is it?
222: It's this woman dressed up sort of like Xena, Warrior Princess, interviewing/berating Stephen Harper for several minutes and then they make out briefly and he ends up with lipstick smeared all over his face.
like badly dressed tourists
That's what losing their country has turned them into.
The thing that really puts this 9-12 show completely over the top and into its own special place is the putative mission of the "movement":
This is a non-political movement. The 9-12 Project is designed to bring us all back to the place we were on September 12, 2001. The day after America was attacked we were not obsessed with Red States, Blue States or political parties. We were united as Americans, standing together to protect the greatest nation ever created.
223: Thanks, I'll see if there's an approved version I can see up here. That sounds like it might have been part of that show I mentioned in the English comedy thread.
audit of the Fed (which apparently is a Ron Paul thing), a lot about reading the bill,
It pains me to note that depending on implementation, both of these things are potentially beneficial transparency reforms. The audit the fed thing has a bunch of co-sponsors and last I heard it might actually pass (unlike many other Ron Paul things) but I don't know what the bill looks like.
About reading the bill, see here. I'm not sure they really have a workable plan given the way the legislative process is set up, but I do think improvements can be made in that direction. There are other proposals for getting people to read bills, though, and while I don't know if there are ones that are actively harmful, there are some silly ones - see, for example, the speed-reading incident a few months ago - and some nearly useless ones - see Obama's 5 day before signing pledge, which he seems to have abandoned. Trying to require reading the bill is also a tactic of the party out of power, so pushing it now can have the indirect effect of helping the Republicans, just as in 2006 the Democrats were the more visible supporters of the idea.
This is probably way more than anyone wants to know about these proposals. Again, it matters a lot how they're implemented, if at all. I doubt the people with the signs are the ones who would do it well.
226: It is part of "This Hour Has 22 Minutes".
229: So is that the real Stephen Harper?
Yes, apparently from 2005 when he was whatever he was (or whatever he was before that or [and so on]) before being prime minister.
Correction: it appears to have been from 2004.
At this event. The photos with the article appear to have been taken down.
From the NYTimes article on the event, this paragraph is simultaneously hilarious, puzzling, disturbing and infuriating.
Mr. DeMint and a few Republican legislators were the only party leaders on hand for the demonstration. Republican officials said privately that they were pleased by the turnout but wary of the anger directed at all politicians. And most of those who turned out were not likely to have been Obama voters anyway.Just to highlight the infuriating: Two ads entered into a MoveOn ad contest (and quickly removed when the organization became aware of them) compare Bush to Hitler and it is a media flurry for a week, Dems are asked to "repudiate" the group, and MoveOn is forever the organization that linked Bush to Hitler. Here, senior Republican leaders *participate* in a rally chock full of such shit. It gets noted in this anodyne paragraph:
The atmosphere was rowdy at times, with signs and images casting Mr. Obama in a demeaning light. One sign called him the "parasite in chief." Others likened him to Hitler. Several people held up preprinted signs saying, "Bury Obama Care with Kennedy," a reference to the Massachusetts senator whose body passed by the Capitol two weeks earlier to be memorialized.
Holy fucking Jesus-crapped-his-loincloth-on-the-cross, a reference to the Massachusetts senator whose body passed by the Capitol two weeks earlier to be memorialized!!! Don't know which is worse, the general lack of respect for their readers, or the overall display of the soft bigotry of low expectations in general. The spirit of the career of Elisabeth Bumiller compels them.
The complaints about "czars" is the latest conservative meme.
Apparently I have something in common with the wingnuts; I've been ranting about the term 'czar' since the Bush days. Course, I just don't like the term, I don't have much of a problem with what the czars actually do.
Hey, speaking of Canada, is it really true that there's a Canadian version of "This Land Is Your Land, This Land Is My Land" with Canadian placenames in the first verse?
I don't think that's the sort of thing they tell temporary residents.
Well, ask around and get back to us.
I pretty much never log in to facebook anyway, but I've decided to stop checking my friends' feeds aside from what's on my front page now that I came across a high school friend cheering the "you lie" guy's fundraising efforts, followed by (but chronologically earlier) complaints about how Americans, apparently uniquely, expect too much from government when they expect things like health care and vacation benefits and such, posted on Labor Day, no less. Because other countries don't have those things, right? Only Americans demand them. Or something. This friend's politics are not consistently like that - judging by the feed, which is usually not like that when I've checked - but I'm not interested in learning more.
I'm sure there are some people like that among my Facebook friends, but I seem to have somehow kept them all off of my front page feed.
And yes, the Canadians have different lyrics at the start of that song. There's a google.com in addition to a google.ca, don't you know? The first result I get is a video sponsored by a conservative group that encourages people to stand up against PC government. Their website includes a video that they apparently find hilarious about how Obama just can't speak without a teleprompter. Also, he wants us to convert of Islam and behead ourselves and take the word "love" out of the dictionary.
Obama wants us to take the word "love" out of the dictionary
eb, can I attribute this to you going forward? No need to worry; it's not like "eb" is identifiable. Also: I am about to give up semicolons. They're such a drag compared to just commas, and nobody uses them anyways.
And yes, the Canadians have different lyrics at the start of that song.
Thanks. As we were going from one bar to another tonight (that's right), for some reason some of our group started singing that song, and the one Canadian among us was amazed. He had apparently only ever heard the Canadian version before.
The rest of us, of course, had no idea there even was a Canadian version.
243: No. And apparently I was wrong: the video describes those as Iranian demands. Obama thinks we can meet them halfway. I guess that's what makes the video funny and me an uncomprehending Obama supporter.
Wait, why do the Iranians allegedly hate love?
I have no idea. Looking further, the people hosting the Canadian "this land is your land" on youtube appear to have different politics than the ones in that satire video (which appears on their webpage, but not on their youtube video). All this thinking about Canadian politics is hurting my brain.
However, I did find this.
Methinks the lady doth protest just a wee bit too much.
Wait, was it the Cuban revolution or the Spanish Republican Army that Lenin led?
How refreshing! Obama as the Borg, not Hitler or the Joker.
OK, going to sleep now. You're on your own with the rest of the photos of teh crazy.
Yes, there are different lyrics- I spend 11 summers at camp there, so of course that was one of the songs sung at some point. I believe it was: from Buena Vista to Vancouver Island, from the Artic Circle to the Great Lake Waters. (Buena Vista might be wrong because it leaves off the eastern half of the country, but maybe I was getting the Quebecois lyrics.)
250- I think the last four lines are just her signature.
Another Teabaggapalooza gallery.
Apparently, Soylent Green is one of the hidden features of Obamacare.
254.2:Well, only Metaphorical soylent green. Obama is working for with Pete Peterson, as should have been obvious a year ago.
Emerson appears to have affiliated with Open Left and is writing again. I do sense a calmness in his comments around the Web that wasn't there before.
I know it is boring and pointless to trash the Times (see comment #234) and WaPo coverage of things like this but I just can't help myself.
Here are a couple of paragraphs from the WaPo coverage:
The huge turnout indicated the growing frustration with Obama among conservative activists and showed that his nationally televised speech Wednesday did little to move his political opponents on health care.
Although it is unclear whether the demonstrators represent a large segment of voters or even of Republicans, Saturday's march illustrated that activists, some of whom are not enthusiastic about the GOP, have been galvanized.
Emphasis mine. Gee, do ya think maybe somewhere in there ya might mention that it was hyped ad nauseum on a particular media outlet? (To be fair, the WaPo, unlike the Times did mention that later, although in a very offhand manner. He said he had not been involved in previous demonstrations but that he watches Fox News host Glenn Beck "all the time" and wanted to be part of an event that he thinks will be historic. Beck had drummed up support for the march. )
And as is the rule for these protests as opposed to anything aimed at Bush or Republicans, the most offensive rhetoric and displays are treated with a shrug.
Saturday's demonstrators spanned the spectrum of conservative anger at Obama, including opponents of his tax, spending and health-care plans and protesters who question his U.S. citizenship and compare his administration to the Nazi regime.
Most signs were handmade: "Socialism is UnAmerican," "King George Didn't Listen Either!" "Terrorists Won't Destroy America, Congress Will!" and "The American Dream R.I.P." Many protesters carried the now-familiar poster of Obama made up to look like the Joker, captioned "Socialism".Oh those lovably wacky white folks with their Nazis and guns and revolution threats; thank goodness history shows they've never really hurt anyone. All of it promoted and encouraged by the leaders of the opposition party.
Deep in the depths of Open Left, Nancy Border , political scientist and published author, has an assessment od President HopeyChange
"Otherwise, the damage that Obama will do to the public good is immeasurable." ...NB
From the link in 257: Last but not least, as an African American who grew up in a Caucasian dominated society, I believe that Obama learned at an early age that when involved in a conflict, the best path to take is to position himself as a mediator among the conflicting parties. Instead of taking a stand himself, he found it more advantageous to divide up contested loaves of bread among the adversaries, each portion commensurate to the relative power of each conflicting party.
His autobiography suggests otherwise. For example, he does not seem to think of himself as 50% white, 50% black. And he is rather troubled by, say, a black woman who wears colored contact lenses because they make her feel pretty.
I don't think Obama's conciliatory politics arise from his psychological development.
253.1 - Buena Vista = Bonavista NL apparently from Cabot saying 'O buena vista' when he saw land.
(..and now I return to lurking)
248: However, I did find this.
Holy wow, that's racist.
A comment from the link in 254:
Aside from the Anarchy VS Socialism thread, painting "white-face" on America's first black president while likening his leadership to Germany's history of racist Fascism is a whirlwind of WTF!?!
"A whirlwind of WTF!?!" I quite like that.
An unscientific poll conducted this morning reveals either that NYC cops like Obama, or it's a nice day. He's giving a speech across the street from my office, and the cops setting up security were uncharacteristically cheerful and smiley. That could, easily, just be a nice weather effect, though.
The dumbest thing I've heard yet today came from some talk radio program. Last night, I had set my alarm to the first station that tuned in clearly, and it turned out to be some nutter program with people calling in their stories about Saturday's protest. Best story was about there were so many people!!!1!one!! on the Metro heading to the protest. Yes, that's right. On. The. Metro.
The caller did not clarify why the private-spector Randian unicorn subway system wasn't running.
The dumbest thing I've heard yet today
It's still early.
