Re: Unsportsmanlike Conduct

1

holy fuck how did she not get sent off, or failing that, her legs broken by a BYU player?

(Also, not a regulation pitch, someone really should get that marking off the centre circle.)


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 5:36 PM
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Good lord. Number 15 on the NM team has an exciting career ahead of her in the financial industry, I'd guess.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 5:36 PM
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She's been suspended indefinitely.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 5:38 PM
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This is why we need to allow concealed carry on campuses and in classrooms. I'd sure hate to run into one of those soccer playing co-eds in a dark alley, if I didn't have some protection.


Posted by: Michael H Schneider | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 5:52 PM
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I enjoy this from the statement int teo's link.

This is in no way indicative of my character or the soccer player that I am

I am pretty sure it is in fact a pretty good indicator of your character and playing style.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 5:55 PM
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Watch again how nonchalant she is about it - her eyes don't even follow her victim to the turf. You can tell she's practiced in pulling off stuff like this without it being noticed.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 5:58 PM
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Going on that clip, and nothing else, I kinda love her. Looks to me that she doesn't initiate, but she finishes, and I can't fault that. She had her hands at her side, not fucking with the other player for both the elbow-then-punch-in-the-back and the grabbing-her-shorts-then-hair-pull-to-the-ground. They didn't show any exchanges where she started the jostling with someone. I also love how she doesn't even pay attention after she does it. She's not mad; she's not in a fight; she's scanning for the ball.

You people who know something about soccer will have to tell me if she was way out of line on the collisions that look insane to me even without fouling.

This may be because I don't understand any amount of jostling, because Ultimate is strictly non-contact. I don't get how there's a line that everyone knows is roughly OK. Given my two sports, you have zero-contact or you're in a fight. Seems like she wins both.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:00 PM
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2 If she can kick that performance up another notch she'd be a lock for the 1982 Italian World Cup championship team.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:01 PM
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You people who know something about soccer will have to tell me if she was way out of line on the collisions that look insane to me even without fouling.

She was way way out of line all the way through. In football, there's no rule against contact, and you don't have to get out of anyone's way. Provided you're going for the ball, you can also get away with a fair bit of physical presence --- which is what the other players do. She's just a thug and a cheat.

(And she's a shit cheater too, if you gave Materazzi three free reds like she gets away with, he'd be two-nil up and the other team would have stretchered off three players and had one sent-off.)


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:07 PM
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7: Wow, I don't have any sense at all of sports-contact norms, but both of those looked to me like they were all on 15. In both she came up behind someone and bumped them with her body, they reacted (elbow in one case, hand/shorts grab) and then she went nuclear. I don't think yanking an opponent to the ground by their ponytail is kosher in anything short of jello-wrestling.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:07 PM
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So, h-g, when you say that you're playing soccer 4 times a week, this isn't what those games are like?


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:07 PM
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I'll watch again, but I saw her as standing next to the person she was defending, and that girl elbowing on the first, then the other girl grabbing on the second. Lemme look.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:09 PM
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You people who know something about soccer will have to tell me if she was way out of line on the collisions that look insane to me even without fouling.

Yes, several of those offenses, taken just individually, would be a direct red and a multi-match ban in professional soccer.


Posted by: Criminally Bulgur | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:09 PM
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Looked again. Yeah, you're right. First contact came from 15, body bump as both were traveling in both cases, but non-exceptional if you're in one of those weirdo sports that don't make it both players explicit responsibility to avoid contact. Then a little from the other player and a lot from her.

I guess I just love cheating thugs. She shouldn't be playing a sport where what she does isn't allowed. But she's good at it, so she should be doing it somewhere.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:14 PM
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I wonder if she ice skates.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:15 PM
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That's genuinely scary behavior. Some of it, I could imagine passing it off as trying to get the ball and tripping someone, or accidentally swinging at the other player's face in a head-to-head collision, but yanking someone to the ground by the hair when they're not even in the middle of a play, is fucked up. That woman's face was white with pain or shock when she hit the ground.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:15 PM
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Is jello kosher?


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:16 PM
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Thing is, shirt pulling is against the rules, but it happens. And a little bit of shirt pulling is nothing major in football, and nobody gets worked up unless it happens in the penalty box or is totally blatant.

It's bad, and all, but.

Her real problem is that she's trying to play the enforcer role but she doesn't have the skill for it --- watch the two times she tries to tackle someone with the ball, where she ends up knocking them down. She takes two or three wild swings, and still doesn't end up with the ball under control clearly, or the other player fucked. A good British fullback of the old school would've had either the ball or the player in one go no worries. Wouldn't have been legal, but would have been quick and effective.


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:17 PM
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Mmm. I was thinking 15 has to be very, very strong -- she took another athlete down to the ground fast and easily. And the BYU woman didn't look like she was 'voluntarily' going along to avoid the pain of the hairpulling, but like she was pulled off her feet. Notice she stayed down for a bit -- winded or hurt enough that she needed a couple of beats to recover before she moved at all.

I wonder if she'd fit in in women's rugby -- I don't know firsthand, but I hear it's violence-friendly.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:19 PM
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Yeah, you'd think with all that shit going on NM would have at least scored a single goal.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:20 PM
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She's only in college. I'm sure she'll improve, Keir.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:20 PM
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Is jello kosher?

No.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:23 PM
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17: Not Jell-O brand jello, but I'm pretty sure there's kosher gelatin.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:23 PM
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What do you call it, agar? Is vegetarian, so it's got to be kosher.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:23 PM
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There have been recent attempts to produce kosher gelatin, which may well have been successful enough by now for there to be commercially available kosher gelatin, but regular gelatin is definitely not kosher.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:24 PM
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she took another athlete down to the ground fast and easily

Body follows the neck.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:26 PM
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I'd say she's a bit small for rugby (and of the things about rugby is you have to be able to take the pain as well as give, which I'm unsure if she could.)


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:27 PM
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Maybe she's studying for a career with the Albuquerque Police Department


Posted by: Michael H Schneider | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:35 PM
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Yeah, maybe hockey's her spiritual home. Roller derby?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:36 PM
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29: I haven't watched the clip, but it sounds like roller derby would be it. Hockey's kind of like soccer (football), isn't it? If you're going to engage in shenanigans, you should have control of the puck by the end of it. I believe that's the idea.

Roller derby - I actually don't know what the point of that is. It's like a race or something? Weird.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:44 PM
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I went to roller derby this summer! There's a scoring system that has to do with making rounds with someone in the lead. I wasn't entirely clear.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:48 PM
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So, h-g, when you say that you're playing soccer 4 times a week, this isn't what those games are like?

Hell no. I don't like stuff that hurts a lot.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:52 PM
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It sounds like roller derby is a bit like speed skating, but with body-checks and campy fashion. Like pro wrestling meets speed skating. Must be one hell of an adrenalin high.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 6:58 PM
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There have been recent attempts to produce kosher gelatin, which may well have been successful enough by now for there to be commercially available kosher gelatin

I feel like I've seen plenty of kosher gelatin products made from fish gelatin (generally at kosher markets, not at your local regular supermarket). Is this the product of "recent attempts" or the thing that recent attempts would be supplanting?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 7:01 PM
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35

This is sadly putting the large brawl between the Under 19s Australian and Chinese women in its place.


Posted by: Pineapple | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 7:02 PM
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36

I thought the problem was that jello tastes gross.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 7:10 PM
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37

But she's good at it, so she should be doing it somewhere.

Mixed martial arts maybe. She needs a punch in the face, big-time.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 7:12 PM
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I craved it this summer once, and, despite being a vegetarian who doesn't ever ever eat gelatin, I bought some shitty off-brand cherry stuff and made it with a pound of real cherries I pitted. It was sort of gross, but also sort of delicious.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 7:13 PM
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Is this the product of "recent attempts" or the thing that recent attempts would be supplanting?

The former.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 7:15 PM
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||

Wow, the wikipedia article on third-wave feminism is really awful!

|>


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 7:19 PM
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I'm sure she plays stopper/sweeper/whatever-it's-called-in-that-system, because that's how people playing that position are taught to play it. With the exception of the hair-pulling, that was basically me on the pitch until I turned 18.

For example, one of the dark secrets of corner kicks in men's soccer is that right before the ball flies, everyone grabs for their assigned man's balls as surreptitiously as possible, because even if you miss, the threat of leaping for a header with someone holding your nuts causes enough of a hesitation to throw off a designed play. (This is especially true of the players on the back pole, as they're shielded from the zebras by their teammates.)

All of which is only to say, I sorta agree with Megan on this one: I admire her attitude, but really, she's terrible at it. She has the cruelty down, but lacks the skill to hide it.


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 7:21 PM
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I have to say, I've never seen/felt 43.2 happen. Shirt pulling/elbows yes, surreptitious balls handling no.

(Speaking of rugby and testicles, Buck Shelford once played a game of rugby after having his scrotum ripped open and stitched back together again. He was only taken off after he later got concussed. That's a hard man.)


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 7:32 PM
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42: Whoops, gender check. I could have sworn you were a woman. I'm wrong?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 7:34 PM
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lacks the skill to hide it

Maybe she's hiding it from the ref, but not the cameras? They only told us about the one yellow card. Seemed like the punch and the hair-pulldown weren't seen by the refs. If cameras are covering the whole field all the time, it'd be hard to hide from those.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 7:39 PM
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43: Yep, you were wrong.

(Really? I thought I was boringly male. That's interesting.)


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 7:44 PM
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Shirt pulling/elbows yes, surreptitious balls handling no.

I wouldn't call it "handling" any more than I would grabbing a cat about to jump off a fence by the tail "petting."

Maybe she's hiding it from the ref, but not the cameras?

Given that there weren't cards pulled until the end, I think you're right. I never had to deal with cameras, so I can't say what's required to hide your gamesmanship from both the ref and the camera.


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 7:47 PM
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Speaking of rugby and testicles, Buck Shelford once played a game of rugby after having his scrotum ripped open and stitched back together again.

Egad.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 7:48 PM
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if you gave Materazzi three free reds like she gets away with

Fucking Materazzi.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 7:49 PM
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I can't remember at all what made me think that. Might just have been the NZ thing -- while I knew Kiwi men and women in Samoa, I knew a bunch more women than men, so the generic New Zealander in my head is a woman.

I pass for male a fair amount -- I'd thought that LizardBreath was transparently a nickname for Elizabeth, but apparently not to everyone.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 7:50 PM
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And on the scrotal point, I recall dsquared referring to 'bag-snatching' as a rugby tactic. Under the assumption that he wasn't talking about purse theft, I figure that's the same thing SEK was talking about.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 8:06 PM
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I saw three clear red cards on #15. almost makes me think there must be a systemic problem with the refs in women's soccer; if she's doing stuff like this presumably she's gotten away with it enough over the years to make it part of her game, and given her lack of sneakiness that really shouldn't be possible.....


Posted by: lurker | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 8:24 PM
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...but I see her focus is Occupational Therapy--so she's trying to build a pool of future clients--that's the kind of initiative I like to see in a college student!


Posted by: lurker | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 8:27 PM
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53

Keir isn't a woman. Maybe you were thinking of Emir.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 8:37 PM
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LB, you thought I was a woman when I first started commenting. Or maybe it wasn't you who thought that. Or maybe I really am a woman. Hey, look, we're in a Shakespeare play!


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 8:37 PM
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I'm pretty sure you aren't a woman, ari.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 8:40 PM
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We could still be in a Shakespeare play, though. The question is, which one?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 8:44 PM
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I don't think there's any Shakespeare characters named "Ari".


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 8:46 PM
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For example, one of the dark secrets of corner kicks in men's soccer is that right before the ball flies, everyone grabs for their assigned man's balls as surreptitiously as possible

I can't believe you made that comment without linking to this.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 8:49 PM
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Vinnie Jones also appears in Survive Style 5+, which is the best oddest movie I have seen in ages. I do not think Mr. Jones quite knew what he was involved with, to be honest.


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 8:55 PM
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I'm an avid fan of women's college soccer and I've never seen any physical play to rival this. The ponytail takedown is one of the more dangerous assaults I've seen on a college playing field; almost as bad as a takedown from behind on a basketball player driving for a layup. Good thing the recipient went with the yank instead of trying to resist it, she could have broken her neck.

Not only should the player be suspended into the next season, but the coach should be carded and the referees fined and bumped down a level. Referees in the women's college soccer game are a mixed bag, I can think of 3-4 really quality officials, a bunch of middle of the roaders that call the game inconsistently but keep the action in check, and then a few that don't seem to be paying any attention at all, as in this case. Even if the ref on the field didn't see the ponytail takedown, the linesman or the 4th official should have.


Posted by: dob | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 8:57 PM
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57: Au contraire.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 8:58 PM
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I don't think there's any Shakespeare characters named "Ari".

So I should stow that "Areola" reference is what you're saying?

I can't believe you made that comment without linking to this.

I can't believe I didn't know about that. (But then again, I just learned about tentacle porn, so I think they're about to revoke my E-Learner's Permit at this point.)


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 8:58 PM
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I think 62.last surprises me more than anything else I've ever seen you post, SEK.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 9:01 PM
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I suppose it's a case of when Warren Ellis says "DON'T CLICK ON THIS LINK AHHHHHHH!" I take his word for it. More seriously, like alameida, I've an almost pathological problem with images getting stuck in my head---we're both, if I'm remembering right, particularly disturbed by the grotesque arrangement of certain seeded flowers---which is also why I've not dealt well with my recent encounter with scenes I'd rather never have seen. All of which is only to say that I've deliberately avoided much of what the internet has to offer. (And, as you no doubt remember, it's not like it works out well for me when I partake of it.)


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 9:09 PM
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Yeah, but it's sufficiently mainstream that "The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife" showed up in an episode of Mad Men, of all places.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 9:12 PM
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I found the girl in the video kind of fabulous, but then realized I was thinking of hockey.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 9:14 PM
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Then I realized I was pwned, after that.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 9:17 PM
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I'm frankly surprised she didn't get sent off for the tackle in the video right before she takes the opposing player down by her ponytail. Lambert goes straight for the other player's planted leg rather than the ball. That's the kind of tackle that breaks people's legs, and unlike most of her other fouls the ref doesn't have the excuse that it happened off the ball.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 9:19 PM
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I don't think I ever thought Ari was a woman, mostly because I think I knew his full name when he showed up here. But maybe I forgot having been confused.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 9:38 PM
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Someone definitely thought ari was a woman when he first started commenting here under a pseudonym.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 9:41 PM
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It really might have been someone else, LB. But wait, why were you stalking me?


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 9:42 PM
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Turns out it was b.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 9:45 PM
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As a matter of policy, I stalk all commenters. As long as it's not too much work.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 9:45 PM
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Also Witt, later in that thread.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 9:47 PM
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Ah, b, right.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 9:49 PM
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I think the ref was generally pretty useless, to be honest.


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 9:59 PM
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I can't actually watch the video cuz my flash player's busted. But back in the day when I played rugby, I was yanked to the ground by the ponytail twice in one game, by the same big fucker from Seton Hall. The first time I brushed it off, the second time I hollered something. "Cut it off then, you pussy" he says. The remainder of the game I fantasized about planting my cleats in his crotch and delivering the same line, but of course that didn't happen. It was the only game we ever won, though; their whole team was still drunk from the night before and barfing all over the field. Victory!


Posted by: adamhenne | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 10:00 PM
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The ponytail takedown is one of the more dangerous assaults I've seen on a college playing field; almost as bad as a takedown from behind on a basketball player driving for a layup. Good thing the recipient went with the yank instead of trying to resist it, she could have broken her neck.
No. Just, no.
The tackle was rather dangerous, though.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11- 6-09 11:04 PM
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||
Unimportant question: I seem to remember a movie from the 1980s which was very creepy, and had something to do with malevolent psychic trees. It was probably set in an American suburb. It had a really boring and generic title, compared to what you would expect from a movie about malevolent psychic trees (something like "The Quiet" or "The Wish" or "The Spirit"). This is bugging me.
|>


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 12:11 AM
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Hmm, that's not a question after all. Well, the question is implied.

The movie was definitely not Japanese.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 12:30 AM
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There's a movie called Acacia, which was about a malevolent psychic tree. But it was set in Korea, not an American suburb, and it was in the mid aughts. But it was definitely not Japanese.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 12:56 AM
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Heebie, it's good to watch video to improve your game but in this case, as others have said, the level of skill displayed is quite low. The elbowing stuff in the open field #15 gets precisely wrong. Generally you want to initiate that shit, and when your opponent retaliates you drop to the ground like someone just broke your ribs. With no other players around it is obvious who hit whom, and having a writhing player on the ground kinda forces the ref hand (and for that matter I don't know why she didn't get sent off for the pony tail pull). Corner kicks are when you hand out the pain. With dudes running all over the place a few collisions are too be expected. Good luck!


Posted by: W. Breeze | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 3:54 AM
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People love girl fights. youtube is loaded with tons of girl fight videos.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 4:48 AM
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That woman is scary. I feel strangely aroused.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 6:57 AM
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I had a rugby-playing bf for a while in college (obvs he was not from my college, but the other institution across the street), and he had an enormous scar on his shoulder from when an opponent grabbed his arm an yanked it in a direction arms don't go as the bf ran fast in the opposite direction. The pretty much had to reattach it. The scar was pretty hot, though.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 8:17 AM
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I figured it out by remembering that it was mainly about an evil nanny. "The Guardian" by William Friedkin. Youtube clips indicate that it was less "creepy" and more "stupid" than I remember.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 8:25 AM
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85: Holy crap whoa.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 9:03 AM
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|| Fucking computer virus. |>


Posted by: di kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 9:03 AM
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85: Nice typing! +d +y

87: Well, it's not like the opponent dude ended up with an arm in his hand, but all the connecty bits on the inside were torn apart. Several surgeries followed. (But like I said, the scar=the hotness.)


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 9:11 AM
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Have I mentioned that I have a long scar on my shoulder from where my collar bone was ripped from my shoulder blade???


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 10:34 AM
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I'd sure hate to run into one of those soccer playing co-eds in a dark alley, if I didn't have some protection.
I don't think they're that into you. 88, however, does sound like a case where protection would have been useful.

after having his scrotum ripped open and stitched back together again...That's a hard man.
That is quite impressive, I'd think physiologically a continued performance would be difficult.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 10:56 AM
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People love girl fights.

Some girl fights, he admitted, blushing.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 1:46 PM
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88, however, does sound like a case where protection would have been useful

Ya think? Thanks, IT, for swapping out my perfectly serviceable laptop for a shiny new one filled with fun viruses! 9 fucking hours on the fucking phone with the fucking help desk. Conclusion? "It's hosed."


Posted by: di kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 2:36 PM
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93: That is insane. The folks at your job gave you a laptop filled with porn diallers, etc.?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 2:39 PM
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94: Apparently. I am a very unhappy young woman right now.


Posted by: di kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 3:01 PM
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Oh, heh. You were making a funny about my excessive use of the word "fucking." You did not actually know that the virus in question was auto-launching various porn sites until I disabled the wi-fi. Funny, that.


Posted by: di kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 3:04 PM
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Who had the laptop before you did and why didn't your IT people clean it? Or, was this an IT special? I think it would be hilarious (in an abstract way) if the crap came from the install image. Kill your IT.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 3:07 PM
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96: No, I wasn't making a funny! I don't even notice the word "fucking" -- it's like and or the to me. I want to know who had the laptop before you and managed to get it larded up with porny viruses.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 3:08 PM
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Aw hell, I don't know shit about computers. So this is arguably something I can blame IT directly for, beyond simply "nice work on the virus protection, asshats"? I seriously needed to have accomplished a serious amount of work today and think I shall go ahead and have a serious meltdown shortly. Just can't figure out yet whether or not to do that before or after figuring out if I can access the network remotely from Rory's laptop.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 4:18 PM
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Yes, you can blame IT. I see three most likely options. 1, they gave you a laptop that had no protection, such that it became infected when you went on-line. 2, they gave you a laptop that had been used by someone else (who had infected it despite installed protective software). 3, they gave you a laptop that they had infected themselves.

IT should not assume that users know shit about computers. Heck, it is safer and easier not to.

If you want to know which previous user might have done this, you can look in the folder C:\Documents and Settings\ and you will see the userids of all the users who have logged into that laptop. (I am assuming a Windows OS and that it has one "hard" drive.)


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 4:44 PM
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If you want to know which previous user might have done this, you can look in the folder C:\Documents and Settings\ and you will see the userids of all the users who have logged into that laptop.

Oh, the idea that I could access the C-drive at this point is really something. When I say "hosed" I mean that in the can't even boot the fucker at this point sense of the word "hosed."


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 4:48 PM
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In your shoes, I'd want to nail someone to a cross.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 4:50 PM
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Bullying isn't OK. If you can't play the game by the rules, don't play. If you admire cheaters and bullies on the field you pretty much lose any standing to complain about cheaters and bullies in real life, IMO. I simply can't see a clear distinction between this sort of behavior on the field and similar behavior elsewhere. Win at all costs is a mindset that I've never seen anyone limit to just one area of their life. It's the mindset that brings us neocons, the financial collapse, and this bitch. If her behavior is OK with no more than a game at stake it is all the more so when there is something important on the line.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 4:57 PM
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Yay, togolosh.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 6:13 PM
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1, they gave you a laptop that had no protection, such that it became infected when you went on-line.

Has the world wide web really become as inhospitable as all this? Only within the last few years have I bothered with protection, and that only because it now comes free from my broadband provider. And I've never had an issue. I always thought that--absent some very bad luck--you were generally safe as long as you didn't visit sleazy websites or click the hyperlinks in your spam filter.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 6:37 PM
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Well, this here is the sleaziest site I frequent. Perhaps, as with other things, the risks of venturing forth without protection really have increased that significantly. Or, at the very least (per 2, they gave you a laptop that had been used by someone else (who had infected it despite installed protective software) and 3, they gave you a laptop that they had infected themselves.), you need to be more careful about user history


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 6:46 PM
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You haven't clicked on apo's links?


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 6:48 PM
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Nope. I clicked on one of Apo's links once, a very long time ago. I learned an important lesson that day.


Posted by: di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 6:53 PM
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105- Yes. Someone did a study a few years ago, opening all network ports on an unprotected Windows machine and connecting it to the internet without a firewall, and it was totally compromised within something like 30 seconds. Maybe it's gotten better since then because they've closed a lot of the automatic exploits on Windows (ie, ones where you don't even have to browse to a site, just being connected to a network with another infected computer infects you.)


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 6:53 PM
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I agree with 103. The time I gave up competitive soccer must have been around the time (the time in my life...age 16 or whatever) that pushing and shoving became an accepted part of the game, and you had to be willing to break the rules to some mysterious extent that I could never figure out. If someone was pushing me, I would push back, and then everyone would be shocked that I lost my cool and let the team down by committing fouls.

It must be quite depressing for a lot of college basketball stars to enter the NBA and find out that they can't play the way they're used to because the rules are totally different (or as it is said in the media, "it's a more physical game"). Maybe Greg Oden will never be able to adapt to the new set of rules, for example.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 6:54 PM
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106: oh, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that a previous user infected it; lots of people visit sleazy websites, even on work computers. Especially since, given your line of work, the last user was probably some poor lonely associate locked in a hotel room for a week working around the clock on some miserable assignment; hell, I'd say the odds are better then even that he ejaculated all over the keyboard in the process, so you might want to wash your hands. But I am a little surprised your IT department wouldn't have tested the computer for before giving it to you.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 6:55 PM
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105: Without a firewall running you'll pick up something within minutes of connecting to the net. There are many bots scanning IP addresses for vulnerabilities all the time.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 6:56 PM
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112 is highly depressing. I don't know how long it would take me to even comprehend what constitutes a "vulnerability", let alone be confident of what to do about them.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 6:58 PM
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109/112: now I'm worried that I had infections I never knew about. My computer never blew up; let me put it that way.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 6:58 PM
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Don't most windows computers come with an installed firewall that they tell you to enable when you run them for the first time? I thought there was a gap between no virus protection and no protection at all.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 7:08 PM
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I tested my vulnerabilities using Shields Up not long ago -- scroll down to the link about half-way down the page. It's interesting and informative, or at least was to me. Let it probe your ports, baby.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 7:11 PM
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115: Yeah, Microsoft has gotten a lot better about security in the past few years. Windows 95/98/ME was a horrorshow, though.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 7:16 PM
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So, not like I can do anything about the work 'puter. But if I were lately reminiscing fondly about my Mac life and thinking maybe I want Mac back, is it still the case that most of these problems are moot on a Mac? What are the current concerns with the Macs? What model should I really be lusting after?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 7:35 PM
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118: Not sure about the machine itself, but this is the obvious choice for your lusting soundtrack.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 7:44 PM
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is it still the case

Yes.

What model should I really be lusting after?

Desktop or portable?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 8:12 PM
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Especially since, given your line of work, the last user was probably some poor lonely associate locked in a hotel room for a week working around the clock on some miserable assignment

Yeah, we're not exactly that kind of a shop. (The working around the clock part, anyway.) Firms that want their attorneys working round the clock would have someone available to maybe help get them set up with a new computer before "sometime Monday."


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 8:16 PM
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120: Portable. I need to be able to comment in front of the TV.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 8:17 PM
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There used to be the video of the sideline doctor sewing up his scrotum on YouTube somewhere, but I can't find it now. I guess there was a copyright claim. It's really something to see, though. Here is a tiny bit of it at least. Rugby isn't as violent as you seem to think, though.

There really are not that many fewer problems on Macs now. The exceptionally stupid vulnerabilities where you didn't have to do anything wrong are mostly closed up in recent Windows, and there's about as much you can bring on yourself. I don't think I'd make that my main line of reasoning in choosing between those two ("neither" would be the best option, but that isn't on the table here).


Posted by: wispa | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 8:36 PM
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All the real problems I've had on Macs were hardware (and then crappy customer service dealing with hardware issues). I used to know better how to troubleshoot on a Mac, but I'm equally clueless at this point.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 8:44 PM
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They do fall to pieces at the drop of a hat. That means it's time to buy a new machine (the answer to a lot of things).

That ShieldsUP site is ridiculously sensationalistic.


Posted by: wispa | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 8:51 PM
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I wouldn't say rugby's violent, but it's definitely very physical.

(Agricultural even.)


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 8:57 PM
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Ugh. So ugly. Wasn't there a kick in the head somewhere in there too? I don't think people get away with anything so crudely violent in the men's game -- the refs are better, and wouldn't there be a flat-out brawl after some of this stuff?

Roller derby - I actually don't know what the point of that is. It's like a race or something? Weird.

I pretty regularly go to roller derby bouts in Baltimore, because my g-friend loves them. It's actually a potentially good, workable sport except the talent base isn't deep enough -- there are usually only two or three good good, skilled players out on the track at the same time, and everyone else is slow and clumsy. But maybe someday.

The inter-city allstar matches between good cities can be fun, because then you get more skilled athletes. Also, the men's game can be good too, they hit harder...New York has a fantastic men's team.

The names are great too.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 8:59 PM
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If you live near an Apple store, service is great.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 9:12 PM
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Since this is a sports thread, "Way to go Huskers". Also, Comcast sucks for not letting me pay-per-view a single game without getting a package.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11- 7-09 9:23 PM
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I feel compelled to report on this morning's developments. Using Rory's laptop, I went through my morning routine: check the weather, check my horoscope, checked unfogged checked facebook. At that last step, Norton pops up to let me know it detected an intrusion and blocked it.

Norton? I switched to McAfee almost a year ago! Shit, I never loaded McAfee on Rory's laptop. Shit.

Wait. Odds are it's the same attack, right? So point of origin on my end But Norton caught it. With virus defs more than a year old. Fucking IT.


Posted by: di kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 6:46 AM
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My experience from playing Rugby, although admittedly lame-o USian Rugby, is that there were certainly more cuts and contusions than football due to the lack of pads, but nothing close to the knee and ankle carnage that results from those weak points giving way in the violent pad-to-pad and helmet hitting in football.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 9:03 AM
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115: Perhaps Vista & 7 do but my XP machines need the firewall turned on for each connection. My router has a firewall and I've "stealthed" it so all the computers are (in theory) invisble to scanners.

It's also easy enough to make a mistake and click on something nasty. All the various thread entries from people saying "Just pay attention and nothing can go wrong" are written by 17 year-old boys who have never been laid.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 9:07 AM
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I seem to have picked something up this morning. The only symptom so far is that I cannot access Facebook at all. Instead, I get a google screen saying I don't have privileges (and a url appropriate to that). Obviously, one doesn't want to let an infection fester or spread. But the immediate damage here isn't exactly catastrophic.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 10:35 AM
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The only symptom so far is that I cannot access Facebook at all.

It's a productivity virus. Bosses have been spreading them.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 11:16 AM
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I switched the computer off, and went and had a sandwich. That seems to have cured it. Take that, boss!


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 11:26 AM
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What kind of sandwich? It's important to know how to reproduce these fixes.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 11:31 AM
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Can I just say that I utterly hate Norton and McAffee isn't much better. I do like the Kaspersky program I've had for the past year.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 11:44 AM
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137: I switched to Kaspersky about a year ago also. McAffee couldn't detect a Trojan that caused me so much trouble that I just bought a new hard drive. (The hard drive probably died because of something I did trying to fix the problem.) I haven't had any problem since, though I have also stopped using a log-in with administrative access when I browse the web.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 12:27 PM
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125: That ShieldsUP site is ridiculously sensationalistic.

Oh, yeah, I know. It's too bad, and kind of embarrassing. Still, I think the ShieldsUP tests themselves are okay.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 1:18 PM
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135: I think the current wisdom, at least on your own machine, not one controlled by your boss, is that shutting the machine off is a mistake.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 1:23 PM
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Maybe my XP laptop caught stuff I don't know about. But it had a windows-installed firewall when I got it, and every now and then when I installed something that needed to get by it, it would pop up and ask me if I really really wanted to let the new thing get through the firewall. It's XP Professional, so maybe that wasn't in XP Home? I can't remember how my previous laptops were set up.

I had been using Symantec since it was what my old university provided, but now I'm using a university-provided anti-virus called Sophos, which I'd never heard of before.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 2:21 PM
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Consumer-level virus scanners are mostly a scam.


Posted by: wispa | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 3:16 PM
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142 is highly depressing. I don't know how long it would take me to even comprehend what constitutes a good virus scanner.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 4:17 PM
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135: I think the current wisdom, at least on your own machine, not one controlled by your boss, is that shutting the machine off is a mistake.

Really? Why? I always shut my laptop of when I leave it at home, so that if some fucker breaks in and steals it they won't be able to start it up and steal all my secrets.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 4:18 PM
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+f


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 4:18 PM
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144: I thought parsimon meant, "Don't shut it down if it's having a problem", but I didn't really understand either.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 4:22 PM
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I read it the way Stanley did. I think the issue is that sometimes something gets onto your computer but can't really do much harm until it gets fully installed, and that happens on startup/restart. So if you can prevent that, you'll have an easier time getting rid of it.

But I really don't have much knowledge of this stuff, except for reading warnings or documentation if a virus/spyware does show up (which I haven't run into much). Otherwise I just follow the default setups, unless there was some advice about how the default was inadequate and I had to change a setting.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 4:31 PM
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147.1 is what I meant. Don't reboot if you can help it, if you think you have something bad on your machine. (This is for Windows machines.)


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 5:31 PM
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I don't know. If you think your machine is infected, it's a write-off. You're not going to fix it. Copy data off that you want to keep, then reformat and reinstall. There's nothing you can reasonably use it for once it's compromised, so there's not much reason to leave it on once you've salvaged what you can.


Posted by: wispa | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 5:49 PM
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Doesn't it depend on the level of the threat? I had some spyware crap on a laptop years ago and got rid of it through some registry editing process the anti-virus/spyware software website recommended and then continued using the machine for something like three more years without an issue. I assume if you're dealing with something that affects startup processes, rather than simply installs during startup, or whatever, then you're really screwed. But I've never reformatted or reinstalled. As I've said, maybe I've had stuff without knowing it and should have taken more drastic measures, but it doesn't seem like you should have to do that every time the anti-virus detects something minor.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 6:00 PM
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Implicit in that is that while it's on it's liable to be actively harmful to your stuff or to other people. You want it to be operating in that state for as little time as possible.


Posted by: wispa | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 6:01 PM
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Yes, it depends on the level of the threat, but you don't know what that is. Once it's infected everything it says and everything you do on it is inherently unreliable. There really isn't a way of "fixing" a system with something actually malicious on it.


Posted by: wispa | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 6:03 PM
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The advice I've seen about not shutting down is to not shut down while you immediately try to deal with the threat. It would be pretty stupid to say don't shut down and you'll be fine until you do, so go about just as if nothing had happened. Do people just continue working when they think their computer is infected?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 6:05 PM
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Yes, they do, and it is the partial bane of my existence. "If you thought that, why didn't you do something about it two weeks ago?", "Because I had work to do...". I really can't fathom the mindset involved in that, but it does happen.

I'm really saying that "immediately try[ing] to deal with the threat" should involve taking it off the network, (trying to) copy off what you want to keep, and turning it off pending reinstallation, in that order and pretty much as quickly as possible.


Posted by: wispa | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 6:10 PM
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154: knowing what I know now, it may have been better to just work rather tha waste a full day trying in vain to troubleshoot. I probably could have at least gotten my active docs onto the external drive. Of course, from what you guys are saying about rebooting, I now understand why it's dead.


Posted by: di kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 8-09 7:19 PM
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