Re: Objectively, your mom dresses you in ways that code as funny.

1

Hmm, that doesn't strike me as odd because I have a good friend who frequently uses the construction "coded [X]".

It is interesting, however that if I good "coded working class" (in quotes) most of the results are about methodology of statistical studies. Given that I see "code switching" used to refer to people moving between different class/cultural boundaries relatively frequently I'm surprised that "coded" doesn't appear to be a mainstream usage.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:18 AM
horizontal rule
2

I don't think it's odd, I think it's a way to sound as though you're being nonjudgemental even though you're dying to call them [X].


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:21 AM
horizontal rule
3

Knowing that I made heebie chuckle all weekend totally makes my day.

(I am off to have my wisdom teeth removed!)


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:23 AM
horizontal rule
4

(Not that Parenthetical was being disingenuous. There is a real statement there about how people present themselves.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:24 AM
horizontal rule
5

"Coded" is definitely UMC effete liberal bicoastal elitist. It's straight out of upper division lit courses where they teach women to be castrating lesbians and men to fear their own cocks.

Real Americans don't see coded, they see things as they are.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:24 AM
horizontal rule
6

"Coded" is definitely UMC effete liberal bicoastal elitist

Can I use it if I'm just coded UMC?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:29 AM
horizontal rule
7

2: That's not exactly wrong, but it's sort of missing the point. It's hard to talk in colloquial English about class, or about any kind of socioeconomic grouping, without sounding as if you're doing it to express your own snobbery. And that's what I understand you to be saying about the 'coded as [X]' construction -- that it's figleaved snobbery.

But there are reasons other than snobbery to talk about class; talking about conflicts of interest between classes, talking about class solidarity, that sort of thing. So the formal tone of 'coded as [X]' seems useful to me for the purpose of talking about class in a way that really is different from saying 'God, their clothes were just so tacky."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:29 AM
horizontal rule
8

2: Oh, yeah. Hmm. I don't really think that's the case for me (can one excuse themselves from being classist?) - I chose coded because I was thinking about it and realizing that probably a number of those people were probably not actually as poor as they seemed to be; when you're doing stream clean up you're not exactly dressing to impress. Also, through my relatives I've noticed that there's a whole other way of signaling class, etc. in the Midwest that doesn't always translate to California.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:29 AM
horizontal rule
9

where they teach women to be castrating lesbians and men to fear their own cocks.

Now if the men were taught to fear their own balls, rather than their own cocks, this could work out rather well. ("Here, let me take care of those for you.")


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:30 AM
horizontal rule
10

Oh, I know, you humorless effete liberals. It's still funny.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:31 AM
horizontal rule
11

UMC effete liberal bicoastal elitist.

The best part about this whole discussion to me is that my father would fit in perfectly with the group I'm referring to as poor. But I suppose I've grown into my liberal bicoastal elitism as an adult.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:32 AM
horizontal rule
12

I think it's a way to sound as though you're being nonjudgemental even though you're dying to call them [X].

This also generated a feeling of assumption clash for me because the friend that I am thinking of frequently uses that construction to refer to their own experience -- e.g., "I suspect my experience of [Y] is strongly coded working class."


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:33 AM
horizontal rule
13

LB gets it exactly right in 7.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:35 AM
horizontal rule
14

It's still funny.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:37 AM
horizontal rule
15

Certainly, and that sort of language absolutely can be used snobbishly.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:41 AM
horizontal rule
16

6: Are you afraid of your cock?

My default interpretation of "coded" is cardiac or pulmonary arrest: "He coded twice in the ambulance before they got him to the emergency room."

11: Me too, both the Dad bit and the LBE bit.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:41 AM
horizontal rule
17

14: No, it just codes funny.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:41 AM
horizontal rule
18

Actual funny, or coded funny?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:42 AM
horizontal rule
19

Curse you, Myotch.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:42 AM
horizontal rule
20

So, what's the right derogatory, un-PC term for the class status of the teabaggers? "White trash" isn't quite right. Is there an appropriately mean term for "boringly dressed lower middle class white people"?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:49 AM
horizontal rule
21

20: I believe the term you're searching for is "teabagger".


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:50 AM
horizontal rule
22

The best part about this whole discussion to me is that my father would fit in perfectly with the group I'm referring to as poor. But I suppose I've grown into my liberal bicoastal elitism as an adult.

Has your father ever heard the word "coded" used in this way?

I only ever have in my sociolinguistics class.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:52 AM
horizontal rule
23

17 to 16.1


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:52 AM
horizontal rule
24

20: PATRIOTS!


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:52 AM
horizontal rule
25

Q: How do you know if a clown has a degree in computer science?

A: S/he codes funny.


Posted by: Your Father | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:53 AM
horizontal rule
26

22: Yes. My father is self-educated but he's done a very thorough job of it.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:53 AM
horizontal rule
27

17.2 to 23


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:54 AM
horizontal rule
28

Be careful, though: If you code too funny, your source won't compile.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:54 AM
horizontal rule
29

24: SAINTS!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:54 AM
horizontal rule
30

Shit, 25 got there first.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:54 AM
horizontal rule
31

20: Weren't they once called "the silent majority"?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:55 AM
horizontal rule
32

Is there an appropriately mean term for "boringly dressed lower middle class white people"?

"Look how teabaggy those pants are on him!"


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:55 AM
horizontal rule
33

I think "peasants" should see a resurgence.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:55 AM
horizontal rule
34

Being coated in codeine would be funny.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:55 AM
horizontal rule
35

I think "the noisy minority" would be a good description.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:56 AM
horizontal rule
36

I thought of the statistical meaning. I'm picturing a Scantron sheet with little bubbles for "poor" and "working class".


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:57 AM
horizontal rule
37

Not least because it goes well with cursing. "Bunch of fucking peasants" just rolls off the tongue.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:57 AM
horizontal rule
38

Anyway, this all came about because I was impressed with the diversity of people involved in an activity that I had wrongly thought to be the domain of liberal coastal elites - environmental activism. (I don't know why I always do that; obviously in my area the hunters have been strong advocates of wetlands restoration.) So maybe this is a form of reverse snobbery?


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:57 AM
horizontal rule
39

20: You'd probably want to go for a brand identity. Reference K-Mart, or Wal-Mart, or something of the sort.

(As a neat bit of insight into my neuroses, the fact that we're talking about snobbery kept me from actually making an un-PC joke, rather than lamely referring to one, in this comment.)

(I'm not actually sure that as insights go, that qualifies as "neat".)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:58 AM
horizontal rule
40

30: Dad's still pretty quick on the draw, despite how boringly he dresses.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 11:59 AM
horizontal rule
41

A: The peasants are revolting!

B: You can say that again!


Posted by: Your Father | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:01 PM
horizontal rule
42

So we're agreed that Parenthetical is an unfeeling monster, right? Good.

Next topic: Is "teabagger" the Platonic ideal of put-down, one that can never be improved-upon? I say yes.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:02 PM
horizontal rule
43

I think "peasants" should see a resurgence.

Story!

Some decades ago, my grandparents went to dinner at the house of one of my grandfather's colleagues from the P/ittsb/rgh Orch/stra. The colleague's wife, a French woman, made some lovely meal featuring an assortment of mushrooms.

"Where did you find such nice wild mushrooms?" asked my grandmother.

"Oh," Colette shrugged gallically, "zee peasants picked dem."


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:03 PM
horizontal rule
44

Q: What's a teabagger's favorite food?
A: Teaburgers!

Q: What do you call a Log Cabin Republican who joins the Tea Party Movement?
A: Teabugger!


Posted by: Your Father | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:05 PM
horizontal rule
45

Q: What's a hippie teabagger's favorite salad?
A: Teabulgar!

Q: (left as an exercise for the reader)
A: Teablogger!


Posted by: Your Father | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:06 PM
horizontal rule
46

Speaking of environmental activism, I was expecting more outrage at the two-minute virulently anti-environmentalist commercial during the Super Bowl. The fact that it turned into an ad for Audi's "clean diesel" car at the very end made it simply baffling.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:07 PM
horizontal rule
47

43: A girl I knew was from one of those enclaves of Eastern Europe where traces of the sort of culture depicted in The Merry Widow survived even the crushing boot of godless Communism. When a story about Pat Buchanan's supporters on CNN years ago asked, rhetorically, "Who are these voters?", she said, with precisely the tone that one would expect, "[t]hey are peasants."


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:08 PM
horizontal rule
48

Q: What do you call a teabagger at the Watergate hotel?
A: Teaburglar!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:08 PM
horizontal rule
49

Q: What do you call a teabagger who's good at word games?
A: Teaboggler!

Q: What do you call a teabagger soliciting donations?
A: Teabeggar!


Posted by: Your Father | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:10 PM
horizontal rule
50

Q: What's up a teabagger's nose?
A: Teaboogers!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:11 PM
horizontal rule
51

Well, I've nothing against these people going around calling themselves teabaggers, you understand, but when I was young it was a perfectly respectable word meaning dunking your balls in somebody's mouth, and I think it's a shame to lose that meaning because there isn't really another word with the same meaning, but I suppose we've got to move with the times...


Posted by: Nearly but not quite my father | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:11 PM
horizontal rule
52

Q: What do you call a teabagger who ships cargo downriver in flat boats?
A: Teabarger!


Posted by: Your Increasingly Strained Father | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:12 PM
horizontal rule
53

My real father would never pun.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:12 PM
horizontal rule
54

"Look how teabaggy those pants are on him!"

"Pull those teabaggy-ass pants up, son. You look like a lug."


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:13 PM
horizontal rule
55

51: The etymology there has always been a bit puzzling to me -- it seems to imply that there are people out there sucking on teabags. Which seems like a screwy way to get a caffeine hit, unless there's no water to be had at all.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:13 PM
horizontal rule
56

I'm surprised that the lower middle class style of dress under discussion is being described as "boring". Surely the wealthy dress boring, too? Is a business suit "exciting"?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:15 PM
horizontal rule
57

TEABAGGINSES! I HATES THEM!


Posted by: OPINIONATED GOLLUM | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:16 PM
horizontal rule
58

55: Yes, it was common practice in desert caravans.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:17 PM
horizontal rule
59

I think J.C. Penny is the most properly mocked cheapish brand, and perhaps most evocative of the Teabaggers' style. Walmart has genuinely good deals/evokes frugality and picking on Kmart is just too mean. The "JC Penny riots"?

Note: I don't think I've seen a J.C. Penny in about 20 years.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:18 PM
horizontal rule
60

58: At least those stocked by Lipton.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:18 PM
horizontal rule
61

Everyone dresses boring. We just watched Slap Shot, made in 1997, when clothes had colors and shapes and looked like something. Also, I don't understand why no one has put a montage of the Hanson brothers in the movie beating people up to the song Mmm-bop, by a different set of Hanson brothers. Is this not the most obvious mash-up ever? And also something that the world needs?


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:18 PM
horizontal rule
62

I meant, 1977.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:19 PM
horizontal rule
63

Is a business suit "exciting"?

It is if you do it right.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:23 PM
horizontal rule
64

Q: Whats hanging from Glen Becks's nose?

A: Teabooger!


Posted by: Your Grampa | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:23 PM
horizontal rule
65

Oooooo, pinstripes. Mmmmmmm.


Posted by: EXCITABLE GRANDMA | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:23 PM
horizontal rule
66

I already use "peasant" as an insult. Also "philistine," "bashi-bazouk," "anthropophage," and "bilious blistering barnacles."

I am a fan of Captain Haddock. I've found his profanities quite helpful in keeping things in perspective when I get ticked. I've added some of my own, of which "wombat dingleberry" is my current favorite.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:23 PM
horizontal rule
67

Q: What to you call a teabagger who labels insects of the order Hymenoptera?

A: Bee tagger!


Posted by: Your Father, who's still got it | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:25 PM
horizontal rule
68

I'm partial to "Rubes"


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:25 PM
horizontal rule
69

"Mooks"?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:27 PM
horizontal rule
70

59: Um, I really don't think being a stuck-up jackass about fashion is the way to go in critiquing the teabaggers.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:28 PM
horizontal rule
71

"But that vast portion, lastly, of the working-class which, raw and half-developed, has long lain half-hidden amidst its poverty and squalor, and is now issuing from its hiding-place to assert an Englishman's heaven-born privilege of doing as he likes, and is beginning to perplex us by marching where it likes, meeting where it likes, bawling what it likes, [105] breaking what it likes,-to this vast residuum we may with great propriety give the name of Populace."


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:28 PM
horizontal rule
72

I think J.C. Penny is the most properly mocked cheapish brand

Montgomery Ward! Also, "Montgomery" is fun to say: "Wow, look at all those marauding montgomeries! Run, run for your lives!"


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:28 PM
horizontal rule
73

So we're agreed that Parenthetical is an unfeeling monster, right? Good.

Take that back!

Ok, now I'm off for my punishment, for real. Woo, oral surgery!


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:30 PM
horizontal rule
74

59: JC Penny properly mocked? Au contraire. Their problem was that they weren't prepared to go all the way down the cost-quality curve like WalMart was, and insisted on maintaining a degree of standards in the garments they sold.

For example, Consumer Reports tested basic white cotton dress shirts a while back and found that JC Penny kicked everyone else's ass in terms of quality and durability, at less than half the price of Brooks Brothers. Unfortunately, they're also ~135% the price of WalMart, which leaves them "stuck in the middle" with no obvious target market segment.

FWIW, before I made enough money to buy proper suits, I had a rack full of JC Penny house brand suits, and they were marvels of quality construction and durability, if a little drab.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:30 PM
horizontal rule
75

Montgomery Ward!

Does anyone else call it "Monkey Ward's", or is that just my weirdo parents?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:31 PM
horizontal rule
76

72: There's also the venerable "Monkey Ward" joke.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:32 PM
horizontal rule
77

I prefer to see 76 as an answer to, and in no way pwnd by, 75.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:33 PM
horizontal rule
78

M/tch's parents were weirdos, too.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:33 PM
horizontal rule
79

59: Um, I really don't think being a stuck-up jackass about fashion is the way to go in critiquing the teabaggers.

Does it help to spell the name of the store wrong, and making a point of saying "I don't think I've seen a J.C. Penny in about 20 years." when they have 1,106 locations in the USA? (according to Wikipedia)


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:35 PM
horizontal rule
80

"Wow, look at all those marauding montgomeries!"

But we all know who's really pulling the strings.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:36 PM
horizontal rule
81

79: Not really, no.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:36 PM
horizontal rule
82

79 -- I prefer to do most of my political consulting work at Standpipe's blog.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:37 PM
horizontal rule
83

I'm with KR. JC Penney makes okay stuff, about a million times better than what you can get at Walmart.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:39 PM
horizontal rule
84

82: I don't get it.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:41 PM
horizontal rule
85

74, 83: I'm appalled. I had no idea that there were people here that shopped at JC Penney.

It's sad enough that many of you buy your clothes off the rack.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:43 PM
horizontal rule
86

Q: What do you call a boastful teabagger?

A: Teabragger!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:43 PM
horizontal rule
87

#75. I think everyone called it "Monkey Ward's." I think I knew the store as "Monkey Ward's" before I ever knew the real name.

(Best discount store name ever is still "Two Guys.")


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:43 PM
horizontal rule
88

48.A: T. Gordon Baggy


Posted by: Turgid jacobian | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:45 PM
horizontal rule
89

Of course, there was recently this much-loathed article about JCP entering midtown Manhattan. Like, OMG some of the clothes are cut for sizes over 10 and it is soooo gross.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:46 PM
horizontal rule
90

Yeah, why you pick on J.C. Penny? When I'm not ordering my cloths from Overstock.com, that's a perfectly serviceable place to go.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:46 PM
horizontal rule
91

84: GREAT, START 'EM YOUNG.


Posted by: OPINIONATED UPHOLDER OF UNFOGGED TRADITIONS | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:47 PM
horizontal rule
92

89: Obese mannequins! The horror!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:49 PM
horizontal rule
93

89: The reaction to that article was (i) amusing and (ii) evidence that such portions of the Internet as are not devoted to pr0n or sharing MP3s have been wholly subsumed into the umbrage economy. Every American, every day, an election-year Miss Grundy!


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:52 PM
horizontal rule
94

5: UMC effete liberal bicoastal elitist

Why are you racist against Methodists?


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:53 PM
horizontal rule
95

OK, people. Listen here, real careful like. It's spelled "J. C. Penney". OK?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:54 PM
horizontal rule
96

95: Elitist.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 12:57 PM
horizontal rule
97

94: The dress so boringly.

Nice potlucks though.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 1:01 PM
horizontal rule
98

93: Indeed, the upcoming transition of nytimes.com to metered access could put a real damper on one of the main leisure activities of a certain group of internet users. I mean, I enjoy gawking at the Critical Shopper's use of "waddle" to describe JCP's method of entry into the Manhattan as much as the next guy, but I'm not sure I'd pay $0.50 to do so.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 1:03 PM
horizontal rule
99

I also like Penneys.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 1:03 PM
horizontal rule
100

Further word in support of JC Penney: Until pretty recently (I haven't been able to find it of late), they offered an innovative quasi-custom shirt service in which you could order dress shirts online that were more or less fit to your body measurements.

I ordered several, and they were great value for money: fabric not as nice as a luxury label, and cut not as true as a bespoke shirt, but pretty respectable, and at $65 a copy, a fraction of what you pay for an off-the-peg shirt at Needless Markup.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 1:06 PM
horizontal rule
101

...but I'm not sure I'd pay $0.50 to do so.

"That must mean he wants to negotiate!" thought Giant Boy Newspaper Publisher Pinch Sulzberger.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 1:07 PM
horizontal rule
102

Wow. That Penneys Invades Manhattan article codes as assholetastic.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 1:17 PM
horizontal rule
103

102: But the author said she was joking! Surely that makes it all okay.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 1:20 PM
horizontal rule
104

Why is Joy Behar putting Pam Geller on her show? Can't her producers find a crackhead who would be just as entertaining and twice as intelligible? If Pam Geller isn't too crazy for cable, then who's next? Lyndon LaRouche? Alex Jones? Time Cube guy?


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 1:24 PM
horizontal rule
105

Why are you watching cable news when there's neither an election nor a natural disaster nor a terrorist attack going on?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 1:29 PM
horizontal rule
106

I'm assuming that the Penney's article was a deliberate provocation, and therefore I give it some points for honesty -- the usual NY Times have-your-snobbery-and-eat-your-liberism-too style would have praised Penney's and chastized snobby New Yorkers for rejecting it --while all the while subtly insinuating that no one actually fashionable or of proper weight would be seen within a million miles of the store. The frankness of the article forces the style sections readership into a direct confrontation with the assholishness brutality of the fashion industry, and is therefore interesting.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 1:30 PM
horizontal rule
107

105: Oh! Oh! I know! Populuxe is sitting in an airport departure lounge with a broken iPod!

Did I get it right?


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 1:30 PM
horizontal rule
108

Normally, I actually quite enjoy her critical shopper articles. I think she just had a massive misfire in which she forgot that slightly self-deprecating snideness and eyerolling are a lot more suitable when directed at stores for the wealthy that put on airs.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 1:32 PM
horizontal rule
109

(I mean, I don't think she doesn't scorn Penney's. I'm sure she does.)


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 1:33 PM
horizontal rule
110

...slightly self-deprecating snideness and eyerolling are a lot more suitable when directed at stores for the wealthy that put on airs.

Most of this thread deals with a category of the non-wealthy who are not a little defined by the airs that they put on ("god-fearing," "patriotic," "real," etc.).


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 1:34 PM
horizontal rule
111

#105. Why am I watching cable news? The weather is shitty. I'm sick. I'm at work. Obviously, life isn't bad enough.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 1:43 PM
horizontal rule
112

The lauding of the populist appeal of JCP towards the end of the piece is an interesting volte-face.

This niche has been almost wholly neglected on our snobby, self-obsessed little island. New York boutiques tend to cater to the stress-thin, morbidly workaholic, Pilates-tortured Manhattan ectomorph. But there are many more body types who vote with their hard-earned dollars, who appreciate a clean new space in Midtown to buy affordable clothes in hard-to-find sizes, as well as attentive service from attitude-free professionals.

First, the transition to this from unapologetic snobbery was jarring, and my first instinct was to think it an ass-covering move to be highlighted when people inevitably cried snobbery. ("But read to the end!" she'd protest. "I acknowledge the valuable role played by Penney's in the marketplace!")

Second, when (I believe) 2/3rds of the American population is overweight, are larger sizes really a "niche"?

Third, from a few grafs earlier, stocking larger sizes is "genius"? Soft bigotry, yadda yadda.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 1:49 PM
horizontal rule
113

112: Maybe that last paragraph was added post-furor?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 1:53 PM
horizontal rule
114

my first instinct was to think it an ass-covering move to be highlighted when people inevitably cried snobbery.

I think this is right, because the discussion of larger sizes in the article is incoherent enough that it can only be straight snobbery. First, obese mannequins? While I haven't personally seen the ones she's talking about, the mannequins in plus size stores generally aren't all that obese looking, and I really doubt Penney's has bigger ones. Then, she's not even talking plus sizes, but the higher end of straight sizes, and they're simply not hard to find in Manhattan -- I'm a size ten, usually, which is in the range she's praising Penney for carrying, and I don't have any trouble buying clothes. I'm sure there are million-dollar boutiques where the biggest size is a six, but not enough of them to make selling clothes to the larger end of the misses range anything adventurous or exciting at all around here.

So she's making up stuff about fat people to be disgusted by, and then covering by making up stuff about fat people to be supportive about. All fiction from start to finish.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 2:00 PM
horizontal rule
115

I haven't been to the Penneys. Maybe I should; it's nearly impossible to find dress shirts that aren't open well down into the cleavage before there's a button.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 2:11 PM
horizontal rule
116

New York (ok, a certain class of New Yorkers, mostly non-native) have a bizarre Platonic ideal of "The New Yorker" that has little to no connection with the actually-existing inhabitants of New York. Overweight? Must be a tourist.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 2:13 PM
horizontal rule
117

New York (ok, a certain class of New Yorkers, mostly non-native) have a bizarre Platonic ideal of "The New Yorker" that has little to no connection with the actually-existing inhabitants of New York.

Yeah. I blame the people who move to NYC to get trendy jobs after college and leave when they get married or have kids.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 2:16 PM
horizontal rule
118

Tourists have different kinds of highlights/dye in their hair from NYers, they talk more loudly to their friends in public, they make a different kind of eye contact, and they don't sit on the subway even though there are plenty of seats available. (The last is also common with businesspeople in town for a meeting.) Obese doesn't "code" as out-of-towner.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 2:19 PM
horizontal rule
119

I guess all those things are also true of NYU students.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 2:20 PM
horizontal rule
120

Obese doesn't "code" as out-of-towner.

Yes and no. One person at a time it doesn't -- if you've got a group of people who look like tourists for the other reasons you gave, and they're also all on the heavy side, it adds to the tourist impression.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 2:25 PM
horizontal rule
121

I was once walking in downtown Manhattan with a female friend, who's not rail thin but not fat, and her two young daughters. Their apartment, where they'd lived for years, was two blocks away; mine was a 10-minute subway ride away in Brooklyn. A thin, 50-something woman dressed all in black pushed past us on the street and hissed so we could hear, "Fucking tourists!"


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 2:57 PM
horizontal rule
122

The Wicked Witch of the West Side.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 2:59 PM
horizontal rule
123

121: Maybe she didn't really think you were tourists -- maybe it just seemed to her to be the most horrible possible insult.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 3:01 PM
horizontal rule
124

Tourists can be a little annoying in public, especially if they're doing some kind of awful "It's my big day in the city and I'm going to SCREAM!" business, but mostly I just want to pull them aside and advise them not to talk quite so loudly about not knowing where they're going and pointing out whose pocket has all the money in it.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 3:02 PM
horizontal rule
125

Re: teabagging etymology

There's no sucking involved, since the teabaggee is not usually a voluntary participant (often asleep or passed out). Thus, the teabagger is dunking, not unlike one would do with a teabag.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 3:03 PM
horizontal rule
126

I always thought there were parallel derivations: teabag = tbag = testicle bag. Plus the dipping.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 3:05 PM
horizontal rule
127

124: I generally like having them around -- I have a tendency to notice tourists and then look in a vaguely smugly self-satisfied way around at my city: "Yes, it is nice, isn't it? Can I help you with directions anyplace?" They do make the Times Square area a living hell with their inability to walk on crowded sidewalks without creating traffic jams, and I occasionally find myself loathing them for getting in my way at other times, but as long as they're not walking slowly, four abreast, in my way I'm fond of them.

125: Oh, I hadn't realized -- teabagging fundamentally refers to a prank rather than a sex act?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 3:09 PM
horizontal rule
128

My cousin is a sixth -- sixth!! -- generation Manhattanite, who is a little overweight and will wear the dreaded shorts on occasion, and has various stories of folks mistaking him for a tourist. When I lived in NYC, it was nice to have a connection to a family with absolutely zero anxiety or concern about what it does or doesn't mean to be a New Yorker.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 3:10 PM
horizontal rule
129

I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that teabagging is a prank and not a sex act.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 3:17 PM
horizontal rule
130

I wonder if people think I'm a local -- I'm not particularly heavy, but nowhere near works-in-the-fashion-industry thin, and I dress badly. Everyone certainly thought I was an out-of-towner when I was a teenager, because I had a not-from-around-here accent -- those conversations used to piss me off no end.

"Where are you from?"

"Here."

"Oh, when did you move here?"

"I was born here. On seventeenth and Second."

"Oh, you grew up someplace else -- where was that?"

"I've always lived here."

[grasping at straws] "Oh, where are your parents from?"

"Queens."

But that hasn't happened since I was a teenager -- I figure I sound less weird than I used to.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 3:18 PM
horizontal rule
131

130: So where did you get the funny accent?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 3:23 PM
horizontal rule
132

Being a weird kid -- I think I just sounded a little over-formal, and that threw people off. But no geographical explanation for it. And no one ever had a geographical theory; I certainly never had people telling me I sounded Finnish or anything.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 3:25 PM
horizontal rule
133

Is see. So your accent just coded as funny.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 3:27 PM
horizontal rule
134

I met a young woman at a party a few weeks ago who accent and vocal mannerisms were similar to LB's. She was from the Upper West Side.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 3:38 PM
horizontal rule
135

the teabaggee is not usually a voluntary participant

Venue-dependent, of course.

I had a not-from-around-here accent

I get that a lot, but only from people who have moved here from elsewhere. "You don't *sound* Southern." Sure I do. We don't all sound like Gomer Pyle, you know.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 3:40 PM
horizontal rule
136

Being a weird kid -- I think I just sounded a little over-formal, and that threw people off. And everyone accused me of having a British accent.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 3:47 PM
horizontal rule
137

I was once hiking near the Great Sand Dunes with an old hippie and we ran into a couple of hunters and chatted them up for a while. "Are you from England?" they asked me. "Nope," I said, "just pretentious."


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 3:57 PM
horizontal rule
138

"You don't *sound* Southern."

It's begun to occur to me that commenting on people's accents may not be a great idea. I tend to do it when I talk to someone I've met online for the first time: "Oh, hey, you have a Canadian accent! That's great!" or, "Huh, I thought you'd have more of a Texas accent."

This rarely goes over well, despite the fact that it really was just an ejaculation good-hearted, smiling sort of blunt remark on my part.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 3:58 PM
horizontal rule
139

Am I p0wnd if I post
peopleofwalmart.com
?


Posted by: Econolicious | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 4:12 PM
horizontal rule
140

I generally like having them around

My response to complaints about tourists generally is 'Would you really prefer to live someplace that nobody wants to visit?' I use it whether I'm in NYC, visiting family in Krakow (So you wish you lived in Katowice?), or being a tourist myself.

I had a not-from-around-here accent

I've gotten a 'you have a European accent' from people. WTF is a 'European' accent?

In Poland on the other hand I either get the 'How old were you when you moved to America?' question if I haven't been there long, or, whenever I've lived there, 'you're from x province, right?' Where x province is any place other than where I happen to be. Poles aren't used to the foreign born actually speaking their language fluently.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 4:34 PM
horizontal rule
141

I've gotten a 'you have a European accent' from people. WTF is a 'European' accent?

Foreign, white person, not British or Australian.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 4:36 PM
horizontal rule
142

WTF is a 'European' accent?

Slightly formal, and something a little off about the vowels. Mostly its "Non-British/Commonwealth accent, faint enough that I can't place it."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 4:39 PM
horizontal rule
143

They do make the Times Square area a living hell

I was about to object that the Times Square area is a living hell no matter who happens to be in it, but I suppose if you remove the tourists you remove its raison d'être and the whole thing just evaporates.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 4:39 PM
horizontal rule
144

So do I have one?


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 4:39 PM
horizontal rule
145

The other day I heard someone speak whose voice, accent, and word choice were all really, really similar to mine. He was a lifelong Californian. This puzzles me.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 4:42 PM
horizontal rule
146

143: Without all the tourists you could at least walk through briskly.

144: A bit? I wouldn't put it that way, but there's something about the way you talk that could lead to that reaction. Very faint, though.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 4:43 PM
horizontal rule
147

Upon finding out where I grew up, people sometimes remark with mild surprise, "You don't seem to have a Minnesota accent!" I tend to take this as a compliment and with some relief. As in, "Phew, this person probably doesn't think I'm some backwoods rube!"


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 4:52 PM
horizontal rule
148

145 - Awesome, dude. You must be so proud.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:01 PM
horizontal rule
149

I wonder how long the New York non-rhotic accent will survive, at least within NYC itself (the Jersey and LI accents seem likely to be with us for a while). Even native NY kids seem to have increasingly rhotic accents these days, based on my relatively limited observations. My Dad still talks about the old Brooklyn and NY patrician accents, which Ive never heard in person and I think are close to totally gone.

I also believe that something like an LA accent is emerging, a combination of Chicano speech patterns and the CaliforNia vowel shift. But IANALing.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:06 PM
horizontal rule
150

I wonder how long the New York non-rhotic accent will survive, at least within NYC itself (the Jersey and LI accents seem likely to be with us for a while). Even native NY kids seem to have increasingly rhotic accents these days, based on my relatively limited observations. My Dad still talks about the old Brooklyn and NY patrician accents, which Ive never heard in person and I think are close to totally gone.

I also believe that something like an LA accent is emerging, a combination of Chicano speech patterns and the CaliforNia vowel shift. But IANALing.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:06 PM
horizontal rule
151

Are the old patrician accents akin to what Katherine Hepburn and 1920s radio announcers had? If so, that needs to come back.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:09 PM
horizontal rule
152

Judging by what I hear, young whites from South Brooklyn and SI tend to have a pretty strong stereotypical NY accent. The old patrician one does seem to be on its last legs. I've heard it, but only among the elderly.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:15 PM
horizontal rule
153

My understanding is that the classic NY upper class accent is similar to the Hepburn accent, but more nasal. This all comes second hand from my Dad, though. If I was at my desk I'd YouTube some old Nelson Rockefeller speeches, since he probably had it.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:20 PM
horizontal rule
154

Oh, and regarding obesity in NYC: About a year ago, Anna Wintour remarked that the people she saw on a recent trip to Minnesota could "kindly" be described as "little houses". After this, I wondered just how much skinnier people in NYC were than the nation as a whole. And the answer is that yes, while 63.4% of the nation was overweight or obese, 57.7% of NYC MSA residents met those criteria. That was a much smaller difference than I expected, which suggests that Wintour ought to be regularly seeing some little houses much closer to home.

The difference between this statistic for the NYC and the Minneapolis-St. Paul MSAs (presumably Wintour would have visited the Twin Cities, and not Woebegon) is even smaller, not surprisingly. MSP is 59.7% overweight or obese—only 2% more than the NYC metro.

But of course, the NYC MSA is huge and heterogeneous, so we want to drill down further. I figured that once I got down to just the five boroughs, I'd see much bigger differences between NYC and MSP. And what surprised me most was that when I went to the county level (which is accessible from the MSA pages), it's really only Manhattan that looks to be dramatically thinner than everywhere else.

NY County: 44.5% (18.9% less than national avg.)
Kings County: 63.2% (0.2% less than ")
Queens County: 54.6% (8.8% less than ")

Hennepin County (where Minneapolis is located), meanwhile, is 57.8% overweight or obese.

So, eliding of the distinction between overweight and obese, my conclusion was that if Wintour was surprised by what she saw in MN then she probably just doesn't get out that all often, since if she just headed over to Brooklyn she could see pretty much the same thing.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:26 PM
horizontal rule
155

Re: accents, the blogger don't know it, but his rather interesting map of facebook connections corresponds to US dialects:

http://petewarden.typepad.com/searchbrowser/2010/02/how-to-split-up-the-us.html


Posted by: David | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:29 PM
horizontal rule
156

One might almost think that being in the fashion industry, she is exposed to a lot of thin people.

</making fun of myself so you don't have to>


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:30 PM
horizontal rule
157

I've been told a few times I have a funny accent. My mom's theory is that she has a supressed gothenburg accent and my dad has a supressed northern accent and both have rubbed off on me.


Posted by: David | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:32 PM
horizontal rule
158

154 -- Nice work.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:35 PM
horizontal rule
159

SF County (coterminous with SF City) is 46.6% overweight or obese, so we're just fatter than Manhattan. (Big confidence intervals on the results of this phone survey, BTW.) I'd like to see numbers for Marin.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:35 PM
horizontal rule
160

Back to the OP, () has fallen victim to an organized and intentional disinformation campaign. Anti-environmentalists want those they oppose viewed as rich elitists. The same way GHWB wanted Bill Clinton, or Se. McCain wanted Barack Obama, to be considered privileged elitists.

LB's diction has reminded me of Katherine Hepburn. Did I mention before that my dad's uncle used to date her?


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:39 PM
horizontal rule
161

if Wintour was surprised by what she saw in MN then she probably just doesn't get out that all often

It is possible. Selection bias, we call that.

On the accent question: aren't people's accents affected as much by where they've lived as by their parents' accents? I say yes.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:39 PM
horizontal rule
162

This is a phone survey?? Dude, people in Manhattan just suck in their guts and lie a lot.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:39 PM
horizontal rule
163

Also:

USA Likes

o Starbucks
o Dislike Button
o I need a vacati...
o God
o Freeze Pops
o Megan Fox
o Michael Jackson
o FarmVille
o I ♥ SLEEP
o The Beach

UK likes

o Cheryl Cole
o Stavros Flatley
o The Chris Moyle...
o Random laughter...
o Lee Evans
o I hate waking u...
o Megan Fox
o Kings Of Leon
o Randomely laugh...
o I need a vacati...

Switzerland likes

Likes

o Roger Federer
o Dr. House
o Sid
o Starbucks
o Vin Diesel
o I love summer
o Megan Fox
o Schwiizerdütsch

Germany

Likes

o Two and a Half ...
o Mafia Wars
o FarmVille
o Michael Jackson
o Starbucks
o Barack Obama
o Megan Fox

Canada
Likes

o Megan Fox
o Michael Jackson
o I really hate s...
o I hate waking u...
o I don't sl...
o Twilight
o Shut up, The Wo...
o The Beach
o Peter Griffin
o I need a vacati...

Sweden Likes

o ICA-Jerry
o Sverigedemokrat... (not letting rightwing nuts get elected to the riksdag)
o Älskar att bli ... (getting scratched on your back)
o Att vakna bredv...
o Vi som gillar J... (julmust, a yummy seasonal beverage)
o Grannen i Beck
o Make a "don't like" button on facebook!!
o Johnny Cash
o Julen (christmas)


Posted by: David | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:44 PM
horizontal rule
164

LB dated CC's granduncle?!


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:44 PM
horizontal rule
165

153: Isnät it FDR's accent?


Posted by: David | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:46 PM
horizontal rule
166

Only the Swiss Germans love Swiss German, les Romands hate it, and given the increasing refusal of the Swiss Germans to actually speak German they're wondering why they should bother learning it. Amusingly, I recently read that the SVP is adding Germans to their mix of bad foreigners who refuse to assimilate: evidence - they don't learn Swiss German.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:48 PM
horizontal rule
167

I'm off to get drunk 300 yards from 4,000 Cubans. Maybe it's 4,000 yards from 300 Cubans, but 200 yards from 50 Jamaicans.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:52 PM
horizontal rule
168

My Swiss German colleague says of her people "We hate the Germans" with a frequency that I find weird.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 5:54 PM
horizontal rule
169

Only Swedes don't like Megan Fox?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 6:03 PM
horizontal rule
170

Back to the OP, () has fallen victim to an organized and intentional disinformation campaign

Is it that campaign that's preventing her from anesthesia-commenting for us?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 6:05 PM
horizontal rule
171

LB dated CC's granduncle?!

Did CC mention that he's half Samoan?

Isnät it FDR's accent?

"Isnät" sounds more like a Scottish accent than Swedish.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 6:17 PM
horizontal rule
172

I do not believe that my dad's uncle took Ms. Hepburn skinny dipping in the moonlight.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 7:51 PM
horizontal rule
173

170: Sadly for you all, I had only about 30 minutes of complete and total out-of-it-ness and during that time I was too busy to comment. I did apparently sneeze bloody mucous all over my friend, though!

And now, though I am on Vicodin, I feel fully coherent. Not quite awake enough to read the whole thread, but yeah.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 7:52 PM
horizontal rule
174

173: Sadly indeed. But hooray for getting over anesthesia quickly. And for Vicodin!


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 8:05 PM
horizontal rule
175

I like "sneeze bloody mucous" as an alternative to "scream bloody murder."


Posted by: emdash | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 8:11 PM
horizontal rule
176

175 gets it exactly right.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 8:50 PM
horizontal rule
177

175 gets it right. And hope you don't feel any discomfort, Parenthetical!


Posted by: honigessig | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 9:01 PM
horizontal rule
178

Pwned by Cryptic ned!


Posted by: honigessig | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 9:02 PM
horizontal rule
179

I'm feeling great. It's a little odd. And I miss my teeth.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 9:14 PM
horizontal rule
180

When all four of my wisdom teeth were pulled, I was pretty much fine, except for the regular healing. It was only a 20-30 operation. I did end up with a cold just a few days later.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 9:28 PM
horizontal rule
181

When I had mine out, I went under, and had no pain, but when I woke up, the anesthetic made me really sick for about an hour. After that, I couldn't take the pain meds they gave me. I'm not good at drugs.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 9:37 PM
horizontal rule
182

Practice, Practice, Practice.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 9:48 PM
horizontal rule
183

My God, I've tried. I keep a mental list of drugs I'm OK at and the No Not Even If It's Really Tempting ones.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 9:52 PM
horizontal rule
184

The anesthetic appears to have given me no problems beyond bad judgment, confusion, and memory loss for about an hour. I was pretty worried about puking. And Vicodin does nothing to me beyond remove any pain, so that's also a plus.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 9:57 PM
horizontal rule
185

Vicodin is on my OK list, in moderation, but it's pretty habit-forming. Oxycodone didn't reduce pain and made me a raging bitch.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 02- 9-10 10:00 PM
horizontal rule
186

I know lots of people with that old-fashioned new York accent, though it's much more prevalent in my grandfather's generation. my grandad has a guy who works for him--they were both born in southampton (40 years apart) but have radically different accents. Kieth has a lawn-guyland accent while my granddad's is Hepburn. It's a pure class-based difference.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 02-10-10 8:13 PM
horizontal rule
187

And Charley's smoking crack -- I don't have the Hepburn/Plimpton accent at all (nor the family background that would explain it). Interestingly accented family members of mine were 'dese, dem, and dose' and 'toity-toid and toid' (33d and 3d) speakers, if you go back to my grandparents/great-aunts and uncles on the non-Irish accented side.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-10-10 8:17 PM
horizontal rule
188

186: George Plimpton, not long before he died, announced to Bill Buckley something like "We're the only two left with our NY accent," but it sounds like your grandfather has them beat.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 02-10-10 8:19 PM
horizontal rule
189

We've talked about this before, but I am bemused by how quickly and completely that accent died. I've never heard it on anyone younger than Plimpton. Are there younger rich people who talk like that, and I just don't know rich people?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-10-10 8:23 PM
horizontal rule
190

189: We're rich in spirit and heart and stuff.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-10 8:26 PM
horizontal rule
191

But do you talk through your sinuses with your teeth clenched?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-10-10 8:27 PM
horizontal rule
192

No, but maybe now is the time to try. I've been spending a great deal of time out in the cold and my sinuses are very clear right now.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-10 8:30 PM
horizontal rule
193

Oh, Oxycodone. The one drug that anyone's been willing to prescribe or offer me that will completely *erase* back pain.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 02-10-10 8:33 PM
horizontal rule
194

LB: I'll totally talk like that all day long for a decent salary. I'll invest the money in profitable things. You'll have the pleasure of hearing it from time to time. I'll become a rich person who talks like that. What could go wrong?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 02-10-10 8:36 PM
horizontal rule
195

LB, I think you should take it up. Just show up for work tomorrow in full Locust Valley Lockjaw and saying things like "It's mad! Mad, I tell you!" and report back.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 02-10-10 8:37 PM
horizontal rule
196

Yes, Professor.


Posted by: Tracy Lord. | Link to this comment | 02-10-10 8:40 PM
horizontal rule
197

And when someone says something you already know, respond with "I know it."


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 02-10-10 8:42 PM
horizontal rule
198

Next step: start the facebook group "I bet we can get 1,000,000 people to adopt the George Plimpton/William F. Buckley accent".


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 02-10-10 8:44 PM
horizontal rule
199

I think it may have been linked here before (let me tell you about the superiority of manual transmissions), but here is an interesting little piece on Buckley's specific manner of speaking.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02-10-10 8:56 PM
horizontal rule
200

Totes Kobes!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 02-10-10 8:58 PM
horizontal rule