Scrabble is a perfectly cromulent word.
Obviously their plan is sell more (yearly updated) Scrabble dictionaries!
This seems highly unlikely to lead to happy, cooperative Scrabble games with my sister-in-law.
Nobody will play Scrabble with me. Apparently, there are only two 'blanks.' If you put out three in a single turn, the accusations fly.
Maybe this will help me suck less at Scrabble.
4: My great grandma was fond of that trick. We let it pass, even though she was a Cubs fan on Chicago's southside.
Since Hasbro has US and Canada rights and Mattel everywhere else, was this a joint decision, or Mattel going it alone? Not sure how it works with decisions about the game--maybe Scrabble already forked years ago.
7: Huh. I heard of it on NPR, who reported it as a Mattel thing but the suggestion was that it would be in the US, notwithstanding my UK news source in the OP.
My dad used to use "alternative" spellings of words, and then intimidate me into not looking them up in the dictionary by reminding me that if I was wrong, I'd lose a turn. Life lesson?
Also, I'm pretty sure I've played Scrabble lots of times with proper nouns allowed by agreement of all players. People read the rules in Scrabble?!
I wonder if people playing Scrabble in Spanish get into fights about whether or not you can use two "L" tiles for "Ll"?
Blume, some people read the rules for Scrabble. Those who allow proper nouns in Scrabble, however, are not people but shaved apes.
Semi-OT: Apparently languagehat is having an its own DNS issues, can see recent posts in Google cache, but it does not resolve. (Actually looks like the domain registration expired.)
11: My mom and brother and I play Spanish/English, and yeah, two "L" tiles for "Ll". As far as I know, "Ll" and "Ch" aren't considered separate letters nowadays by the Real Academia, even though that's how I learned them in Spanish I. "Ñ" is still separate though, I think.
The tilde counts as a separate letter? Interesting.
12: Now I want to go to the zoo just to assure myself that the Brazilian thing hasn't hit the smaller-frontal-lobe parts of the primate family.
How can they possibly use people's names? There are new ones invented every day.
14: The Real Academia still uses "el camino" as a common noun and won't even respond to my letters asking that it be used only as a proper noun in reference to the greatest pick-up/car mash-up ever. So, fuck them.
18: Not the Subaru BRAT*?
*Which Wikipedia astonishingly tells me is an acronym for "Bi-drive Recreational All-terrain Transporter". Was I alone in not knowing this?
I'm sure I spent more hours in my delinquent high school buddy's El Camino than in any other vehicle that wasn't owned by me or my parents. He had also souped that beast up to monster-jet power. It's a miracle either one of us made it to adulthood alive and ambulatory.
17: Exactly! That's why you need to subscribe to the online Scrabble dictionary which is being updated constantly. And this is all part of the IPad Scrabble app!
It's true. A Subaru won't drive unless you can at least show some bisexuality. For a straight man, you can gently stroke the gear shifter for longer than is necessary to get into gear.
21: Neither did I. We ignorant are legion!
Not that Subaru was not a bit odd in its model-naming strategy, I recall the Justy was so named because it was "just right" for the market (and apparently was sold as the "Trendy" in some markets).
More car-naming fun: Apparently the El Camino was sold in Mexico as the Chevrolet Conquistador. Really?
Clearly what the enterprising competitive Scrabble player should do is start their own company and quietly "launch" a huge range of products with high scoring names. Then when challenged they could bring out their catalogue, or their trademark registrations.
26: Makes sense. The name El Camino suggests you're likely to be walking a fair bit, which isn't stellar branding for a car.
27: "Qwest Communications" was started by a guy who got stuck without a needed 'u' just once too often.
29: Should somebody tell the Nova/no va joke now?
Why couldn't the Chevy Nova cross El Camino?
The way it's described in the articles I've read, this is an optional rules set designed to widen Scrabble's appeal. On that basis, I can't really work up any outrage. As someone said upthread, the Scrabble dictionary used in tournament play forked some time ago, with certain allegedly offensive words having been removed from the Official Scrabble Players Dictionary (OSPD) that are still included in the Official Word List (OWL, also known as the Official Tournament and Club Word List).
Wow, that was dorky.
It amuses me that there's a Nissan Armada.
31: My favorite of the Unfortunately Named Cars Lore is the Mitsubishi Pajero.
Order Jyzquix™ today!
This is clearly porn.
I certainly hope it's optional. This sounds terrible.
This is clearly porn.
That's Jyzqwicks™. Jyzquix™ is a legitimate medical product.* "Jyzqwix" is an acceptable alternate spelling for either.
*Jyzquix™ has not yet been approved by the Food and Drug Administration.
37 -- No, I hear they'll be putting it in the water, once the FDA approves.
certain allegedly offensive words
Jesuit ?
So, 40 was a better joke, but I was first.
40 - Dammit! I jyz qwik enough already!
40: We must protect our precious bodily fluids.
42 -- They already have it in the water where you live?
14: According to the Spanish scrabble wikipedia entry, there are CH, LL, and RR tiles, but you can also use two tiles.
The Real Academia Español says as of 1994 that CH and LL aren't letters for the purpose of alphabetizing, but they're still part of the alphabet. I don't understand what this means.
And now I feel boring & pedantic. Time for vermouth.
A bunch of Hawaiian Punch's toys have spanish alphabets, and they're very inconsistent with all the freak letters. Also, when I took spanish, rr was also a letter. And vv.
Time for vermouth
The breakfast of champions.
My children are being taught that "Ch" and "Ll" are letters in a NYC public elementary school now, but that doesn't mean it's right.
It's almost 5 here. Merienda of champions.
CH and LL inconsistency is mostly because of the whole, "Not letters but still part of the alphabet" weirdness, I think? Also, it's in the song I learned.
47: vv . . . were they out of Ws?
50: Only in Spain have I encountered people who drank vermouth straight (and not chilled!). Guh-ross.
In high school Russian class we'd play an excruciatingly slow, open-dictionary version of Scrabble. You could play out of turn, any time you figured out a word to use, but that wasn't very often. Those of us who'd skipped ahead in the textbook to the instrumental plural had an advantage stretching for those triple-word-scores.
Taking an 'anything goes' approach to Scrabble eliminates the main fun part, which is getting into arguments about whether the words are acceptable. As I recall from college, the absolute best part of those arguments is when your roommate gets so upset with his girlfriend's attempted use of a non-word that he scatters the pieces around the room and they both storm out in a huff.
vv . . . were they out of Ws?
I just like how W is double v, instead of double u.
At the bar I'm in, they give it to you with a mixture of bitters, gin & Campari & an orange slice, on ice. Delicious! It's a little señorito, though. (Mocking way of saying, "young gentleman").
Diccionario Panhispánico de Dudas says that CH and LL are part of the alphabet, even though they're not independent letters for the purpose of alphabetization. Score for NYC public schooling.
Anyways.
I just like how W is double v, instead of double u
Some Spanish speakers say doble u. In other random letter news, many Puerto Ricans call V uve (pronounced like English "oo-vay"), and Y is called ye (pronounced like English "yay") in at least some parts of Ecuador.
Puerto Ricans also pronounce their Rs kind of like Ls. "Puelto Lico."
At one point I got excited when I realized muneca (w tilde) was the same word for wrist and doll, and I asked the teacher if she knew any jokes taking advantage of that fact. She gave me a withering look and said of course not. So then I said that we should make some up. In general, I got on her nerves a lot, which I found kind of irresistible.
55.2: Actually, I understand and appreciate that rule. I have a vague memory of using a Spanish-English dictionary and being repeatedly flustered we I didn't find words starting with 'ch' or 'll'. I could never remember to look in the 'ch' pages until after I'd already looked in the 'c' section.
57: Some do it enough that it's almost like a J: Me llamo Jicaldo Jodrigue' de Pueto Jico.
58: I learned last year, thanks to a Raymond Chandler novel in translation, that esposas, in addition to "wife," also means "handcuffs." There have to be a whole bunch of terrible jokes that take advantage of this, but I don't know any of them.
55: Hey, you'd know -- how big is the Latin American Spanish/Spanish-Spanish distinction? I'm wondering about taking the kids to Europe, and whether their Latino Spanish would be useful in Spain, or if they'll just be confused.
62: I think of it as like having an American accent in Britain, basically. There's some pronunciation stuff that's different, but it only gets really hairy with slang & profanities. And a lot of the filler type formulas you use in conversation aren't the same. But for traveling -- talking to hotel staff, ordering in restaurants, reading maps, asking for directions -- it'd be good practice, I would think.
Oh! And vosotros, which they'll have learned how to conjugate in school but probably have forgotten. The only other big difference is that nobody in Spain uses usted, mostly because of Franco, whereas the formal "you" is really common in South America -- so they'll be talking to people in tú.
Oh! And vosotros, which they'll have learned how to conjugate in school but probably have forgotten.
I don't think they've formally learned to conjugate anything -- it's all been immersion, rather than any grammar lessons. But if it's as close as American to UK, that's great.
63: All of my Spanish instructors (one in high school and three in college) used books with "vosotros" forms in them and all of them skipped it.
But if it's as close as American to UK, that's great.
I think it's a good analogy. For most values of being understood in the UK, you're fine. If you try talking to a Scottish grandfather or a London teenager, you're going to run into a lot of usage that confuses you -- and if you lived there, you'd have to get used to code-switching & slang & other stuff -- but communication as such isn't the issue.
65: Me too, and for the same reasons they teach British English in Spain but American English in Latin America. I had to relearn all of my vosotros here. (Being able to tell a roomful of students to be quiet: useful.)
66.2: I thought maybe I just had bad teachers. They told me chingar meant "to order eggs over easy."
True, if only for certain values of the word huevos.
I don't think it's wise to separate the casual and competitive games of Scrabble even further than they already are.
OT: people in the DC area (or who will be in the DC area temporarily) are all invited to my birthday party on April 18. The invitation's posted at the flickr group or you can email me for your very own personalized pdf file.
69: What's wisdom got to do with it?
nobody in Spain uses usted, mostly because of Franco
I want to hear more about this.
How long before Scrabble players start getting letters from corporate lawyers demanding royalties for use of brand names?
I learned ch, ll, ñ and rr as separate letters in seventh-grade Spanish. I also learned that b sounds like v and vice versa, and for years and years I would listen to people speaking Spanish and get really frustrated that I couldn't hear it that way. Finally it occurred to me that Mr. Gutierrez was teaching us Cuban pronunciation, him being Cuban and all. Boy, did it take a long time to figure that out.
And he made people use used, so they dropped the hated pronoun when he died? Or engaged in a successful program of used eradication?
75: I gave you a broad outline. Somebody else can provide the details.
"Usted" is an Arabic word. Let's not cave into anti-terrorist alarmism by refusing to use it.
Maybe "usted" was too close to "ousted" and Franco didn't want to give people ideas?
I don't think they've formally learned to conjugate anything -- it's all been immersion, rather than any grammar lessons
My Spanish education has been similarly haphazard, and I find that while I can get by in Latin America ok, Castillian spoken at speed still frequently befuddles me.
A Google search indicates that there's a post about it on languagehat. Which is down, of course. Useless goddamn Internet.
72: usted is the formal "you," and Francoist Spain was in a traditionalist time warp until he died, with things like bullfighting (almost banned during the 30s) and Semana Santa processions heavily encouraged. (That's one of the reasons the Cataláns hate bullfighting -- they just banned it -- & the Basques aren't crazy about flamenco.)
I've had people tell me something along the lines of, 'Usted reminds me of when I was a child, priests everywhere, lots of military, groveling to authority, & I don't like using it.' You can actually insult people by ordering in usted instead of tú -- it sounds like you're being sarcastic.
Whatever the case, you never really hear usted used at all here, except by politicians when they debate on the Spanish equivalent of CSPAN. (Whereas in Latin America, it's totally colloquial.)
You can actually insult people by ordering in usted instead of tú -- it sounds like you're being sarcastic.
Now I wish English hadn't dropped formal verb forms. I've often felt that I could use another way to be sarcastic and insulting.
A cached Language Hat comment about this speculates about t-v forms in general after dictatorships. Certainly the young Russians and Ukrainians I've hung out with jump immediately to the informal pronoun in informal situations. There's a sense of "we're not playing the old official game, so we're not going to use that stuffy pronoun."
Two compelling notes:
- There's a gorgeous El Camino down the street. The two-tone paint job is silver on top and a very dark plum/maroon on the bottom. I lust after it.
- Until very recently, Scrabble™ was union-made. Production's been moved to . . . wait for it . . . China™. At a factory with good wages, benefits, and job security, no doubt.
Bonus 3rd compelling note: Scrabble was created during the Great Depression by an out-of-work architect named Alfred Mosher Butts. (Sadly, none of his names carries a particularly high point value.)
85: My only added value here is off-topic Spanish, so I try milk it.
84: We never dropped formal verb forms! We got rid of the English equivalent of tú -- thee & thou, the way lovers talk to each other in Shakespeare. Now everything's formal.
Alfred Mosher Butts
That's almost a sentence.
89: Especially if you 1) assume that it's Alfred of Batman and 2) use an Urban Dictionary definition* of "mosher."
"Alfred (the) mosher (head)butts (the Penguin to get Robin out of a jam)."
*A sample: "Basically moshers are the greatest people alive, they will do anything for you, like getting you out of scrapes (i.e. being ganged up on by chavs). They wont mock your clothes, they are not dirty and they love a party."
88: "Thou art my friend, but you are my king," as Samuel Delaney put it.
Certainly the young Russians and Ukrainians I've hung out with jump immediately to the informal pronoun in informal situations.
I got the impression from my education that even during the USSR years Russians were a little looser with "Ты" than, say, the French are with "Tu". That could be wrong, though.
92: That seems right, although my French is mostly from movies. In Russian, if you're in the same general age range and you're not operating in a professional or other formal context, you can move to ты pretty quickly. My sense is that young adults (people my age, born in the mid-'70s, and younger) start on ты in informal situations, and that it didn't used to be this way (although of course children and teenagers probably always тыкали among themselves). I await correction by Slavic linguists and/or native speakers.
87.last- And was based on a puzzle in an Edgar Allen Poe story!
The usted thing is interesting; I always lazily assumed Spain would be more formal, following the American vs. British English model.
You can actually insult people by ordering in usted instead of tú -- it sounds like you're being sarcastic.
My Chilean host mom used to scold her weiner dog in this manner! It was ah-doe-rah-blay.
The Spanish discussion is fascinating. I'm going there for the first time in late summer, and I would have defaulted to usted in all situations before reading this.
96: Another tip: start now practicing saying ¡Joder! every other word, so you'll be fully prepared for the experience.
Great! Now even Scrabble is getting dumbed-down? This is distressing.
Next, phonetically-spelled words will be admitted, and slang, and jargon, and pig-latin, and finally... on-the-spot portmanteaus and neologisms. What do you mean "squalmy" isn't a word? It clearly is squeamish + qualm, the sickening feeling you get when you realize you have qualms about your qualms, which means you're way, way too sensitive and should just lay off of the feelingness for a while.
All that is fine, but I have a pragmatic question: what dictionary do you use as arbiter for whether a word is legit and spelled correctly? There's an infinity and constantly growing number of proper nouns... I knew someone named Hangjan once. Does that count? Also, there's a hair growing out of my arm that I just named "Foogeeuit", because I had way too many vowels lying around...
Upidstey.
96: I'd still do that. Sounding like a clueless, overly polite foreigner is better than sounding like a clueless, asshole foreigner. It's not like you are going to blend in seemlessly just because you get the second person pronouns right.
I take issue with the formation and definition of "squalmy".
what dictionary do you use as arbiter for whether a word is legit and spelled correctly?
My current house's rules are to use the (Shorter) OED, as it's readily available.
My current house's rules are to use the (Shorter) OED, as it's readily available.
But it won't have all the legal proper nouns in the Brave New Scrabble, right?
100 gets it right. "Squalmy" doesn't sound like a noun at all.
You all are having pangs of squalms?
103: The game you are thinking of is "Balderdash."
101: The online Hasbro dictionary (which says it is Merriam-Webster's Official SCRABBLE® Players Dictionary, 4th Edition) is what we use except you can use the naughty words too (see comment 33).
A much better game than Balderdash* is Wise And Otherwise. It's the same premise, but instead you are given the first half of a saying and you have to finish it. So "An old Norwegian expression is 'An old woman with four chickens...' ", and then with the voting on everyone's expressions.
It's much funnier and more flexible and engaging for a wide age-range.
*The game where you make up definitions? Or am I confusing games?
The game where you make up definitions?
Yes, but "Wise and Otherwise" does sound better. I'd never heard of it.
107: You are right, it is commercialized Dictionary with expanded categories. We just play with Wikipedia now and leave it to the asker to get creative on what they provide.
Balderdash is a lot more fun if you don't know many foreign languages or Latin roots, or if your friends are too drunk to make up plausible definitions.
Uh, more fun if your friends are not drunk. Oddly.
100, 103: pedan-forest for the tic-trees.
Apples to Apples (the version where the group compiles its own groups of nouns and adjectives) remains the highest and purest form of word game.
Apples to Apples is much better if you allow people to identify themselves as the player of a card and defend their choice.
However, the best is the game variously known among me and mine as the Mallory Family Fun Game or Colander of Fun.
And more fun when drunk, so, you know, even better.
Apples to Apples is much better if you allow people to identify themselves as the player of a card and defend their choice.
You really think so? I rather enjoy seeming to advocate for choices that aren't mine to throw off the scent.
The best is Subjective Poker using Apples to Apples cards. I won with a full house -- I think it was something like "duct tape" + "delicious" + "choir boy"; and then "David Copperfield" + "airplane". The pair was supposed to be "things that make New York skyscrapers disapppear."
You really think so? I rather enjoy seeming to advocate for choices that aren't mine to throw off the scent.
Normally, I think, you're not allowed to say anything regarding who played what. So the change I was thinking of wasn't requiring accurate identification but the allowance for advocacy at all. I agree that one shouldn't be required to correctly identify oneself (and how could that be enforced)?
Subjective Poker sounds pretty fun, but I don't really see how to extend it to flushes or straights. Presumably when one is in the moment it becomes clearer?
So the change I was thinking of wasn't requiring accurate identification but the allowance for advocacy at all
Oh. We always advocate. I recall enganging in a passionate argument over what's more hard-working: the sun or P. Diddy?
121: The sun does shit. Gravity and various nuclear forces do all of the work.
And I always have advocated as well, but I believe, as I said, it's officially verboten. Maybe that's wrong.
Gravity and various nuclear forces do all of the work.
Whereas it's impossible to be reductivist about P. Diddy. QED.
114 gets it right, assuming you've got the right bunch of people.
||
NMM to Wilma Mankiller, assuming you were able to get past the name in the first place.
|>
Have we really reached the point where Slate (fucking Slate) is correcting Unfogged??
The most interesting thing in that article is that somehow the game is owned by different competitors in difference markets. I guess the guy who sold the rights must done so by region.
Anyway, I'm supposed to write a 20 page paper by about 8 AM tomorrow. Maybe I'll play some scrabble.
129: How 'bout that? But isn't it nice that we got to have this interesting discussion about Scrabble and other topics?
Frankly, you should all probably write to NPR and thank them for misinforming me on my drive to work this morning, such that I was prompted to post this. Go on. It'll only take a few moments. I'll wait here.
There's an interesting story floating around about Mussolini and formal pronouns in Italian.
133: In the editorial meeting at NPR someone challenged whether it was true, but Cokie Roberts pointed out that "It was out there", so they went with it.
And TPM lagging badly on the story (posted half an hour ago).
WTF? indeed. BTW is WTF acceptable in Scrabble? IMHO, it should be, but IANASP.
137.2 s.b BTWIWTFAIS? IMHOISBBIANASP, which I hear will be playable in the next edition.