I can never understand this mindset. If you want to pray for your country, nothing's stopping you! Just don't ask the government to sponsor it.
And I really hate arguments like this:
"Their whole case is premised upon the idea that just because they claim to be offended by it, they should be able to challenge the National Day of Prayer statute and have it struck down," he says. "We disagree with that. The First Amendment simply doesn't provide any of us with a right not to be offended."
No, but the first amendment does provide all of us with a right not to have the government endorse religion. It's only because the Supremes are extremely hypocritical on this front that obvious violations like this and the insertion of "under God" into the Pledge have been allowed to stand. The logic of the jurisprudence is clear - it's just been ignored almost whenever it conflicts with "tradition".
That quote is fucked-up, yes; though since it comes from a Supreme Court-involved lawyer, I suspect it's explicitly designed for the debate about who has standing to sue (which has a very convoluted jurisprudence).
Huh. I see I mixed up "from Wisconsin" and "in Wisconsin" in the post. Fixed. In Wisconsin.
What Ginger said. My little freshmen always want to argue they should have the right to pray in school. Go ahead! I tell them. What's stopping you? Come on, I say -- start praying right now, I'll give you a minute. Rats, you can have three minutes. Five! How long do you need?
They stare at me like stunned deer. I've never once had any of them take me up on it.
Though I did get preached against at the local fundie church one time.
I was thinking that the day before the "National Day of Prayer" should be designated as the "National Day of Questioning and Doubt", in which everyone is encouraged to spend time giving deep consideration to the possibility that maybe God simply doesn't exist. Those that made it through, faith intact, can go ahead and pray. The rest of us could go for pizza.
Pray for us sinners in Wisconsin dot com.
1: "The First Amendment simply doesn't provide any of us with a right not to be offended."
Somehow I do not believe that the person saying this believes it.
6: Apizzism? Or is that found only in New Haven?
heebie is totes strictly Old Haven in Wisconsin.
Ask me about how I found five dollars--in Wisconsin!
Separation of church and state is the one issue that trumps all others for me. Funny* that the modern president who was hands down the best on that issue was an evangelical from Georgia.
*Actually it makes perfect sense if you're familiar with Baptist history (before the current set of wackholes took control), and every day I love Jimmy Carter a little more than I did the day before.
A Wisconsin atheist carried my luggage.
For me a national day of questioning and doubt would be just like any other day. I suppose something similar is true for a lot of these "day of prayer" types. Yet they don't think a national day of prayer is superfluous.
Oh, man. We should start a rumor that the National Day of Prayer is Obama's seekrit plot to get socialized prayer. I bet some heads would just explode from the confused reaction.
16 is fantastic. To the facebook status bars!
||
IT'S HOLE!
Woke up this morning and checked my email to find out that, while I was out sick yesterday, a 10 foot diameter hole opened up in the floor at work. Unbelievable.
||>
If we're playing policy Mad Libs, can we do cap and trade with prayer, heretofore "spiritual emissions"? I'm pretty sure a few church complexes I've seen off the side of I-35 near Dallas could get me all of Manhattan as an area I don't have to pray in.
21 -- Sounds like somebody should be praying a bit more.
Or, maybe, praying less. It really depends on whether you're praying to God or to Satan.
It's only because the Supremes are extremely hypocritical on this front that obvious violations like this and the insertion of "under God" into the Pledge have been allowed to stand. The logic of the jurisprudence is clear - it's just been ignored almost whenever it conflicts with "tradition".
There's a legitimate principle lurking in there somewhere sometimes, which is that whichever litigant is trying to pick a fight over religion should lose. Quasi-religious stuff is so thoroughly intertwined with the culture that it's an asshole move to, for example, file suit against the State of New York to get rid of the long-ignored Ten Commandments plaques that LB mentioned a while back. It's also an asshole move for fundies to run around slapping up Ten Commandments plaques where they don't already exist. But it's not easy to build a jurisprudence around "the biggest asshole loses".
24: I guess. The landlord came by, but he refused to cock it.
28: You have to pray harder for cock.
I agree with 27.
The problem is that something like a national day of prayer is fine as long as it's a meaningless ecumenical empty gesture. As soon as it becomes aggressively targeted as a vehicle for the culture war, however, all of a sudden you have something that does look like an endorsement of a particular religion.
That said, I'm not super sympathetic to the freedom from religion folks, either, who are glomming onto this issue in order to fight a fun culture war battle.
The best way to deal with the national day of prayer is to realize that it doesn't make a lick of difference to anyone about anything.
I guess I'm concerned that Obama is busy praying to Jesus when really he needs to spend more time focusing on jobs. Jobs!
Also, he should have fixed that oil leak by now.
To the roster of "--in Wisconsin", "...laydeez", and "--in bed" (advanced: "down there") we may now add "& Trading Company", to make any concept instantly steampunk.
27 and 31 are pretty much right, although my sympathies go with the 'freedom from' side of the argument, even when they're being culture war assholes a bit.
You just fucked with the wrong Mexican & Trading Company down there in Wisconsin … laydeez.
16: Brilliant!
The evil socialist Obama is using the "National Day of Prayer" as a pretext for a government-sponsored takeover of religion! Tell your Tea Party friends! He must be stopped!
MY SUPERKORANIC DAY OF PRAYER WILL FINISH YOU ALL!
I hear they're gonna have Heaven Panels to decide who goes to heaven.
Jeremiah Wright will be appointed Archbishop of Washington. Perks of the position include the use of a black helicopter.
It's only because the Supremes are extremely hypocritical on this front that obvious violations like this and the insertion of "under God" into the Pledge have been allowed to stand.
Be the change you wish to see in the world: cross out "In God We Trust" on your money. (I do it on my dollars, except for very roughly 10 percent of my bills that get spent before I get to a desk with a marker.)
31
The problem is that something like a national day of prayer is fine as long as it's a meaningless ecumenical empty gesture. As soon as it becomes aggressively targeted as a vehicle for the culture war, however, all of a sudden you have something that does look like an endorsement of a particular religion.
Ah, but it's not an empty gesture; it's strongly anti-Deist. Discrimination! (Too bad Deism is basically a dead movement these days.)
More seriously, it doesn't have to be endorsement of a particular religion to be endorsement of religion in general. I'd say that right there is contrary to the spirit of the First Amendment, but I know the Supreme Court disagrees with me.
43.1: New York State courtrooms mostly have a big sign saying "In God We Trust" (wet rust dingo). The other day I was in an unfamiliar courtroom that instead had "What is not reason is not law" (I think from Blackstone's Commentaries). Surprisingly pleasing.
I used to be a Christian but ever since Obama socialized religion, I'm outraged by Chappaquiddick the National Cathedral.
44: Always bugs me.
More encouragingly, when I was on a grand jury, I asked the warden (after hearing people get sworn in so-help-them-god for weeks) if a person being sworn in could say "oh hey not so much with the god" and be given an alternate statement for swearing in, and he told me they could, that it's right there on the sheet.
The word for the Godless swearing is 'affirming', if anyone else wants to ask for it when in a legal situation.
"God affirm it" just doesn't have the same ring somehow.
47 -- Not just for the godless.
Right, like the Quakers aren't godless.
There's a funny rule in the CPLR (NYS civil procedure rules) that in circumstances where a sworn affidavit would normally be required, Quakers, Orthodox Jews, and various professionals including dentists and chiropractors can affirm instead.
not to tell the truth, ever
There's something flawed about this...
45: Ob National Cathedral trivia: It has a Darth Vader gargoyle way up high.
42: Why it gotta be a BLACK helicopter?
Fine, fine, give him the gay helicopter, then.
I have my doubts about the Wisconsin Idea.
Dude. It's totally fucking in Wisconsin. What could go wrong?
What happens in Wisconsin apparently happens everywhere else as well.
They've been saying it forever, in the state whose capital is Madison.
There has always been Wisconsin, you see.
Shit, you stepped on my joke in Wisconsin.
Everywhere you step, part of your foot comes down in Wisconsin.
Even tragic fires are more intense--in Wisconsin.
They say that I won't last too long in
Wisconsin
I'll catch a Greyhound bus for home they say
But they're dead wrong, I know they are
'Cause I can play this here guitar
And I won't quit till I'm star
In Wisconsin
I'll take this thread all the way to Wisconsin if I have to. Or maybe this is a sign I should go to sleep.
Be the change you wish to see in the world: cross out "In God We Trust" on your money.
It doesn't say "In God We Trust" on my money. It says "ELIZABETH II DG REG FD".
71: Mine says "Charles Darwin 1809-1882" with a rather nice picture of a finch.
Illinois wears Wisconsin like a big, lopsided head.
Also: "The division of labour in pin manufacturing (and the great increase in the quantity of work that results)"
True that. But the money quote, so to speak, is "London, for the Governor and Company of the Bank of England". That makes it money.
By the way, aren't the new obverse designs on the coinage silly?
74: ah, that's on the £20. Clearly Ginger is a man of means.
75: yes, they are indeed. Hideous.
By the way, aren't the new obverse designs on the coinage silly
The heraldry stuff? I think it's great. If you lay out all your coins on the table it looks cool.
I'm with G.Y., I quite like the new coins.
75.2, 77: Except those would be the reverse sides. Betty is on the obverse
Are these the alleged offending/pleasing pieces of tender?
