Re: Unfogged Was Nicer/Less Nice Back In The Day. Discuss:

1

Bo-ring.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:04 AM
horizontal rule
2

Fuck you, Tweety.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:04 AM
horizontal rule
3

Comment #1 is insulting and controlling, toward a woman.

We are off to a fine start.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:06 AM
horizontal rule
4

I was going to say, "Great post", but I must defer to Sifu Tweety in this as in all important things on the blog.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:08 AM
horizontal rule
5

I would not agree that it was much more entertaining. Maybe a little. Ogged really knew how to troll everybody.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:10 AM
horizontal rule
6

Unfogged should have:
1. More meta-posts.
2. Less meta-posts.
3. We need a new post to discuss the fact that this one was even suggested.


Posted by: Awl | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:11 AM
horizontal rule
7

I don't really have an opinion because for us "kinder and gentler" meant we got to arrange the piles of stones in an aesthetically pleasing manner. Also, we were nearly naked most of the time, so cock jokes weren't as big of a deal.


Posted by: Opinionated Old Kingdom Egyptian | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:11 AM
horizontal rule
8

I'd say it was somewhat more entertaining, possibly just because the commentariat was smaller and more intimate, but definitely not any nicer.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:14 AM
horizontal rule
9

Oh, sure, put up a new thread while I am in the process of composing a long and overly earnest comment at the end of the last thread.

I think unfogged is less funny that it used to be and a little less addictive. I suspect part of that is that people have gotten older and have other things going on in their lives (and more children) the general intensity of engagement is lower.

But I also think that it is nicer now, and is still the only place on the internet that competes, in any meaningful way, for affection with the people that I know in RL. There are other sites that are good time-wasters, but I still feel very strongly that, where I to be somehow cut off from unfogged, I would be losing a group of friends.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:22 AM
horizontal rule
10

Unfogged was certainly more authentic before it signed with Warner Bros.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:28 AM
horizontal rule
11

3.1 would have been witty, had it been written by anybody else.

And it might have been witty as written! But bob, context is everything. If you actually want an answer to your repeated question in the other thread: We know ari was joking in 447 because he was clearly joking. And had a joke of ari's been misunderstood - especially one like that - he wouldn't have hesitated to say so.

You still haven't said you were joking in the other thread, I assume this is because you weren't joking. I mean, if you were, what was the joke?


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:31 AM
horizontal rule
12

11.3: I've been confused by this in the past, but doesn't that belong on Standpipe's other blog?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:35 AM
horizontal rule
13

3.1 would have been witty, had it been written by anybody else. before 2008.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:37 AM
horizontal rule
14

Unfogged was certainly more authentic before it signed with Warner Bros.

The true suckage started when Sammy Hagar replaced Fontana Labs.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:41 AM
horizontal rule
15

11, 13:Setting aside "All about Bob, all the time"

...and, if possible, setting aside "I know that guy, and he is just not like that"...

is 3 accurate about 1?


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:42 AM
horizontal rule
16

15: No.


Posted by: Awl | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:45 AM
horizontal rule
17

15.3: Use the fucking brain God gave you, bob. ... oh wait, you are.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:46 AM
horizontal rule
18

I'm not going to claim that this is a particularly moral stance, but: the cock jokes are just funnier when they arise in the middle of a vicious personal fight, and they always were.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:47 AM
horizontal rule
19

Unfortunately, I have to go swim drive to Fox Chapel. I hope I don't get lost like the last two times. I can only find the liquor store.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:50 AM
horizontal rule
20

Okay, then let's look at #2

I will, for the sake, assume it was an affectionate objection to #1, but there remains a small element of objection, a recognition that #1 is ever so slightly objectionable.

Is this accurate?


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:51 AM
horizontal rule
21

FWIW, I found unfogged to be both funnier and nastier back in the day. There was also a broader range.

I missed the edge well before I left. Then again, as far as I can see nobody has bemoaned that act* since, so I probably didn't fit in so well; That probably means I shouldn't bother with this but now it's done.

* whinge, whinge


Posted by: Dee Lurkin | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:52 AM
horizontal rule
22

FWIW, I found unfogged to be both funnier and nastier back in the day. There was also a broader range.

I missed the edge well before I left. Then again, as far as I can see nobody has bemoaned that act* since, so I probably didn't fit in so well; That probably means I shouldn't bother with this but now it's done.

* whinge, whinge


Posted by: Dee Lurkin | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:52 AM
horizontal rule
23

Not sure about nicer, but I otherwise endorse 9.last and will add that I value the RL friendships that have resulted from unfogged.

/earnest

Plus, I usually laugh out loud several times every thread, which makes it entirely worth it.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:55 AM
horizontal rule
24

I probably didn't fit in so well

Well, sure, if you double posted.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:56 AM
horizontal rule
25

FWIW I read Unfogged semi-regularly* from about the time it was added to the CT blogroll (as one of the places to go if CT was boring/ I had already read the rest of the internet) until the Big Bitch Blowup, which I gather was resolved fairly quickly, but I was not in the mood for poison what with being in the middle of a post-divorce mope and all, so didn't return until mid 2008. My impression is that the changes were: Enormous comment threads (they'd been getting longer, but perhaps I hadn't really registered that when I split), and more PC eggshell-walking in the comments. Also I don't think there were as many "I have an interesting story about last night" type of comments (which I really like).

*I recall commenting a bit under another pseud, but can only locate one comment via google. I blame Obama.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:56 AM
horizontal rule
26

cock jokes are just funnier when they arise in the middle of a vicious personal fight

Like the naughty bits in UFC?


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:57 AM
horizontal rule
27

20: No.

Off to swim read a less boring thread.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:59 AM
horizontal rule
28

26: "oh and he's going for the 69 choke but.. no! He's been mounted! Could his opponent have 'checked the oil'? That's definitely frowned on in a pro bout."


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:00 AM
horizontal rule
29

Unfogged was funnier before Obama was elected. Fucker kills blogs for profit.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:00 AM
horizontal rule
30

more PC eggshell-walking in the comments

Didn't used to be any at all at the beginning. See what happens when you let girls in the clubhouse?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:01 AM
horizontal rule
31

30.last: Yay, titties!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:02 AM
horizontal rule
32

After leaving comment 14, I put on Van Halen II for the first time in probably a decade or longer. I'm in a much better mood.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:06 AM
horizontal rule
33


I don't have a strongly held opinion about whether unfogged used to be nicer or meaner than today (though I lean toward "meaner"), but that's not really the issue for me. When I say that bob's persistent presence here makes me stay away from the site, it's not because of his meanness, but because of his trolling, his megalomanic insistence on making every thread about him (which is tedious in its own right and also crowds out the worthwhile discussion I come for), and most of all his incorrigible habit of arguing in bad faith.

You can try to exculpate bob by comparing his antics to beloved commenters of yore (Emerson and B. could be mean; stras could be exasperatingly wrong), but at least you could count on them to argue in good faith (mostly; with B. sometimes it was hard to tell). Not so with bob, who knows nothing but his own beliefs, and believes in nothing but his own rightness.

Unfogged is a big tent -- even Shearer can feel welcome here -- but part of the implicit bargain of being accepted inside the tent is that you conduct yourself with good faith.

Bob's performance art trolling is the antithesis of good faith. In fact, bob believes that good faith is for suckers, as his own words reveal. And every day that we treat him with anything better than derision proves him right.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:07 AM
horizontal rule
34

even Shearer can feel welcome here

That seems unlikely.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:11 AM
horizontal rule
35

This will be a short thread, seeing as 18 has always already got the answer exactly right. Unfogged has always been mean, but the cock jokes provided the comic relief necessary to keep things in balance. Sadly, the only one I've got is Rory's pronouncement that she wouldn't marry a cock. But I think I've overused that by now.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:12 AM
horizontal rule
36

Protip: It's not that hard to skim right past bob's comments. Tedious, but it can quickly become a habit (with occasional lapses).

Now really going back to the other thread.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:13 AM
horizontal rule
37


Sadly, the only one I've got is Rory's pronouncement that she wouldn't marry a cock

Your always-welcome "bad sex" jokes more than make up for that shortcoming, Di.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:15 AM
horizontal rule
38

What NickS said. I miss a few of the old-time commenters -- Drymala, Armsmasher, md 20/400 come to mind. And Di's persona, when she was first recovering from UNG.

I think "blog" as a social phenomenon is just not as intense as it was a few years ago. Unfogged may reflect that. Still enjoy the community.


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:16 AM
horizontal rule
39

Also, I think much could be solved if Dona Quixote would step it up on those rebound prowling updates. If necessary, I will throw my hat back into the insane pursuit of sex and/or romance ring. But I'd prefer not to.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:17 AM
horizontal rule
40

It's not that hard to skim right past bob's comments.

As numerous others have pointed out, there's a collective action problem at work here. Unless the "ignore bob" rule is scrupulously observed by all, which experience shows it almost never is, then every thread is at risk of being hijacked by his trolling.

Maybe if we had a Grover Norquist style pledge that everyone signed, I dunno. But then bob would do his puppydog-eyes poor-me routine, and maybe he offers just enough non-trollish contributions to make others doubt their conviction that he is an incorrigible troll, and then we're right back where we started.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:19 AM
horizontal rule
41

I'm looking forward to when unfogged is all about what unfogged is about. It's a natural progression.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:21 AM
horizontal rule
42

...had it been written by anybody else. before 2008.

Oh, there is a point here. There are a lot of us still befuddled by how people were "taken in" by Bush, by Obama.

The thread below really exploded when I started talking about the PUMAs.

I grew up in the company of a man, physically attractive, charming, funny as hell, so beloved by casual acquaintances that he went into politics, and as verbally abusive, controlling, and soul destroying as anyone you can even imagine. When he could get away with it. But what I really learned is how even the most apparently innocuous interchanges, the jokes and banter, damage and move the lines of what is "unobjectionable."

The above three bullet points of course connect in our micro and macro discourses, the local and global, politics and feminism. Hegemonies are subtly established that are almost invisible. Unwritten rules rule. The Emperor wears a fine style.

But the potential victims, and I am not one, can't be reached, won't listen. This is, on a personal level, for those you love, horrifying. On the level of politics it is terrifying.

I don't like certain kinds of men. I don't like them a whole fucking lot. Maybe I see things that aren't there, maybe I see things that are there but invisible to others. Maybe I am crazy, maybe I am smart and crazy.

But I am not, and do not intend to be, malicious or gratuitously cruel.

OK fine. Hard for me, hurts like hell, but gone. I am so soured on group interactions that I am thinking of pulling the plug on the whole fucking internet. But I can obviously no longer contribute, participate, or share at Unfogged. Goodbye.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:23 AM
horizontal rule
43

39 crossed with 37 and 38, but I guess I can take one for the team if that's what it takes. Anyone who wants to assist by fixing me up with a total disaster, let me know.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:24 AM
horizontal rule
44

Wait. I should say thanks. You have absolutely no idea how much I have appreciated most of my time here, how much I care about most of you.

Take care of each other, everybody. Be kind.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:25 AM
horizontal rule
45

42: Don't let the door hit you on the... Awww, fuck it, I'll believe it when I see it.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:26 AM
horizontal rule
46

I think Bob does a lot to keep this blog entertaining. I don't really care for his vendettas, but as trolls go, I think he's one of the more interesting ones. We could do a lot worse.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:27 AM
horizontal rule
47

46: See 40.last.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:29 AM
horizontal rule
48

Sorry to see you go, Bob. As annoying as I have found some of the periodic threadjacking, when you do play respectfully, you do "add value."


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:29 AM
horizontal rule
49

Sorry to see you go, Bob. As annoying as I have found some of the periodic threadjacking, when you do play respectfully, you do "add value."


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:29 AM
horizontal rule
50

I have a roommate who's a total disaster, but I've sortof got my own eye on him. So that's promising.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:30 AM
horizontal rule
51

Don't know how that happened. I must be doubly sorry.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:32 AM
horizontal rule
52

50: Like! If you step up, that would save me the trouble.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:34 AM
horizontal rule
53

Take care of each other, everybody. Be kind.

Aw, fuck it.

Bob, I hope you come back, whenever that may be. Taking a break sounds like a good idea, but the picture of you out walking your dogs for miles has to be one of the indelible images of unfogged.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:35 AM
horizontal rule
54

I think you've all become a bunch of pussies in Unfogged's decadent stage and it's time to mean this place up until you all become the tough, fit commenters of yore. That's why I'm personally committing to act like as much of an asshole as possible, starting right now. Who's with me?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:35 AM
horizontal rule
55

There is in fact a reason why parties don't last forever.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:35 AM
horizontal rule
56

Fuck you, Halford.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:36 AM
horizontal rule
57

Maybe bob can do a guest movie-review column once a week. No blood running in the street allowed, just movies.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:36 AM
horizontal rule
58

42: Don't let the door hit you on the... Awww, fuck it, I'll believe it when I see it.

Your graciousness and magnanimity is a wonder, Knecht.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:38 AM
horizontal rule
59

I think you've all become a bunch of pussies in Unfogged's decadent stage and it's time to mean this place up until you all become the tough, fit commenters of yore. That's why I'm personally committing to act like as much of an asshole as possible, starting right now. Who's with me?

You could take notes from Tripp.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:40 AM
horizontal rule
60

starting right now

Don't sell yourself short. You got a jump on that game ages ago.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:40 AM
horizontal rule
61

55: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsTAUs_h_uY


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:44 AM
horizontal rule
62

I'm stepping up! I've been house painting. But I plan to make many poor life choices in the near future, ideally tonight, though it will be a straight crowd.

And I may not have mentioned this, but I am also open to being set up with complete disasters, even though I don't really know any of you. (See? Questionable judgment!) Criminal insanity not necessarily a dealbreaker, depending on hotness.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:46 AM
horizontal rule
63

54 -- Maybe you should pick a different commenter each day, and harass them til they cry.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:48 AM
horizontal rule
64

but I am also open to being set up with complete disasters,

A gazillion blog hero points if you seduce Pam Geller and liveblog about it. She's running around loose somewhere on the Upper West Side.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:49 AM
horizontal rule
65

62: The meanest case of lesbian revenge sex of which I am familiar involves my friend's crazy ex (really crazy) intentionally seeking her (my friend's) estranged father, fucking him, and forwarding her the "sexts" they had exchanged. But, I mean, there was no joy in that, I'd think. Unlike seducing straight girls at a party.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:51 AM
horizontal rule
66

AS THOUGH I WEREN'T ALREADY HAVING TROUBLE SLEEPING, JP


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:53 AM
horizontal rule
67

re: 65

Wow, that's setting the bar fairly high.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:53 AM
horizontal rule
68

65: Holy shit.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:53 AM
horizontal rule
69

ideally tonight, though it will be a straight crowd

Sounds like the perfect setting for disasterously poor choices!

63: Not funny.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:54 AM
horizontal rule
70

65: I don't think that can be topped.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:55 AM
horizontal rule
71

The stunning and beautiful black lesbian trainer at the gym, the one who only seems to train very beautiful women, got her name graffiti'd on the door of the gym in lipstick, with hearts. Seems like you could count on whomever did that to make a few more grand gestures. I could try to get a name, but one assumes she's local to Sacramento.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:57 AM
horizontal rule
72

The first girl I was ever involved with was a) crazy, and b) vengeful. After we had stopped sleeping together, we tried to be friends, met up for drinks. I told her I was sleeping w someone else, and mentioned the uncommon first name of the new hook up. Took Crazy 5 days to tack down New Hook Up and fuck her. This is in a major city. I was mostly impressed.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:59 AM
horizontal rule
73

33 describes 42 pretty neatly.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:59 AM
horizontal rule
74

65 is maybe the worst thing I've ever heard. And dedicated.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:02 AM
horizontal rule
75

What's really amazing is that the story in 65 is not the kind of thing I'd easily believe, but the attending circumstances of crazy ex's whole path of destruction, etc. were sufficiently bad as to be looked into by authorities and the whole thing got pretty well documented.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:07 AM
horizontal rule
76

74: Hah! Back in the mean days of Unfogged Classic people talked about gluing caterpillars to death.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:08 AM
horizontal rule
77

since I seem to be here today anyway...

I can't top 65 but it reminds me of something I once did. Yes, I'm ashamed of it a bit, but it's also sort of weird.

I must have been 18 or 19, and a friend had slept with my girl. It wasn't about the girl, but the fact he'd done it to one up me pissed me off. Being a teenager, this was an epic betrayal, and required an epic response.

So I made a list. His older sister, his younger sister, his best friend since grade school, his current girlfriend, his mom.

Here's the weird thing: Over about 18 months, I was almost completely successful. I'd reached a never before or since realized capability for targeted seduction... wtf?

After gloating in the payback a bit and rubbing his nose in it, I figured out that this lay mostly in not having anything real riding on it, and I really didn't like the guy doing this. Gave me a new look at how I was defeating myself when I did...


Posted by: John Kennedy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:15 AM
horizontal rule
78

Well, it is pretty easy to sleep with swaths of women when you're a handsome young president.

At what point did people realize your intention?


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:17 AM
horizontal rule
79

Is this Blogfight Weekend or something? The McMegan thread going on at DeLong's is entertainingly nasty.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:18 AM
horizontal rule
80

Is this Blogfight Weekend or something?

We're commemorating 9/11.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:18 AM
horizontal rule
81

I need to know if you got his mom.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:19 AM
horizontal rule
82

If we act nice, the terrorists will have won.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:20 AM
horizontal rule
83

79: It put a song in my heart.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:20 AM
horizontal rule
84

48

Sorry to see you go, Bob. As annoying as I have found some of the periodic threadjacking, when you do play respectfully, you do "add value."

I thought read added considerably more value. Just saying.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:21 AM
horizontal rule
85

83: The way she keeps digging a bigger hole in desperate self-defense is awesome.

Also, I second 81.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:23 AM
horizontal rule
86

63 is a reference to the read thing, right? I have given up on finding this in TFA, because read apparently also is a commonly occurring verb, if anyone would care to point me to it. It's referenced enough that it feels canonical.

p.s. I have no opinon on any of this because I've only been here since it got nicer/more boring/the same, hooray!


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:23 AM
horizontal rule
87

OT: Does it make me a bad American if I go rip out the flag someone planted on my front lawn (and every other lawn in the neighborhood?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:23 AM
horizontal rule
88

87: You could set fire to it, to celebrate freedom of speech.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:25 AM
horizontal rule
89

84: Maybe she did, but I still don't miss her.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:25 AM
horizontal rule
90

You can make up for it by finding whomever planted that flag and fucking every other member of his family.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:25 AM
horizontal rule
91

If you rip out the flag in your front yard, it makes you the best kind of American.


Posted by: beamish | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:25 AM
horizontal rule
92

If you rip out the flag in your front yardheart, it makes you the best kind of American.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:26 AM
horizontal rule
93

81 gets it exactly right.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:30 AM
horizontal rule
94

86: Here


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:35 AM
horizontal rule
95

Wow. Almost exactly one year ago. Never forget!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:44 AM
horizontal rule
96

Thanks, Di. If memory serves, you took the brunt of it so sorry if I've induced PTSD. Nonetheless, I'm curious so I'm going to go read it now.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:50 AM
horizontal rule
97

Let's pick all the scabs!

*I* jounced the limb. Because I was a literary critic.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:50 AM
horizontal rule
98

97: THANKS A LOT.


Posted by: OPINIONATED PHINNY | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:52 AM
horizontal rule
99

96.last: There's that word! The true depths of read's patient revenge slowly dawned on everyone.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:52 AM
horizontal rule
100

98: Learn to walk down the stairs, gimp.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:54 AM
horizontal rule
101

As an exercise in procrastination, I went and looked to see if I could find my very first Unfogged comment. Early May 2006, apparently. Read through a few threads; people seemed awfully nice. And maybe O was on hiatus . . . ?

Now, I better" get that dog walked.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:55 AM
horizontal rule
102

81 really deserves a reply. This is a need, John Kennedy! Ask what you can do for your blog!


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:55 AM
horizontal rule
103

Haven't gotten any better at linking over all those years.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:56 AM
horizontal rule
104

http://www.unfogged.com/archives/comments_4900.html#335788


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 12:06 PM
horizontal rule
105

I confess that I am finding myself impervious to blog meta-angst and various RL sub-optimalities this weekend because every half-hour or so I think about this.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 12:07 PM
horizontal rule
106
Posted by: | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 12:09 PM
horizontal rule
107

At what point did people realize your intention?

Some of them never did on my account. One of his sisters was onto the game pretty early, but wouldn't spoil it.

Also, I second 81.

Yes. That was a bit cliche, but fun.

For the record, I've got middling looks at best. That whole episode was an interesting education on how far you can make up for many things with attitude.


Posted by: John Kennedy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 12:20 PM
horizontal rule
108

107: You hypercharismatic telepathical knight, you.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 12:33 PM
horizontal rule
109

Knight of Infinite Cock
Knight of the Doleful Cock
Redcocke Knight


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 12:36 PM
horizontal rule
110

106: I don't give a shit, Emerson. C'mon, make my day.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 12:38 PM
horizontal rule
111

105: I never get tired of this story on dangerous horses.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 12:39 PM
horizontal rule
112

110: The ToS has been impersonating Emerson, which seems to be the case here again.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 12:48 PM
horizontal rule
113

87: If you want to be a real American, you have to report the flag planter to a vicious homeowner's association.


Posted by: JennyRobot | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 12:50 PM
horizontal rule
114

You hypercharismatic telepathical knight, you.

well, no. i didn't write that very well.

the point is, if your goals are incredibly narrow and you really don't care how you come out of the whole thing, it's a lot easier to be convincing. and assholish, mostly.


Posted by: John Kennedy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 1:01 PM
horizontal rule
115

58:"[G]ratefulness and magnanimity is?"


Posted by: freight train | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 1:14 PM
horizontal rule
116

96: A little bit, tbh. But my fault for being fool enough to reread that entire thread. It's like my own private 9/11.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 1:14 PM
horizontal rule
117

Uh, "graciousness." Fuck.


Posted by: freight train | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 1:15 PM
horizontal rule
118

I see nothing really wrong with "graciousness and magnanimity is." Ben was thinking of them jointly, as a single quality. I call "macaroni and cheese" exception.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 1:23 PM
horizontal rule
119

Oh, hey, the flag planter actually left a note in the mailbox identifying herself! An obnoxious local realtor and instructions to leave it up through Sunday.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 1:24 PM
horizontal rule
120

119: Mail it back to her, postage due.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 1:25 PM
horizontal rule
121

instructions

That is obnoxious.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 1:32 PM
horizontal rule
122

You must have been drunk when you wrote this post, LB. Though I can't blame you. I had to be drunk in order to read it.

Halford, I'm a little surprised you presume to even know what tough means, given your confessed Led Zeppelin fandom. Anyone can listen to Led Zeppelin. If you were really tough, you would listen to 36 straight hours of Justin Bieber.

For everyone else: Arcade Fire sucks. Feminism causes cancer. You're lousy lovers, and even lousier cooks. Obama has disappointed you so because he is a punishment sent by God for your manifold sins. Repent!


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 1:39 PM
horizontal rule
123

I ♥ Walt Someguy.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 1:40 PM
horizontal rule
124

I googled Justin Bieber to make sure I was spelling his name right, and came across a picture. He really does look like a lesbian.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 1:41 PM
horizontal rule
125

124: I see that more as a condemnation of lesbians.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 1:51 PM
horizontal rule
126

Oops, 125 was me.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 1:51 PM
horizontal rule
127

The McMegan thread going on at DeLong's is entertainingly nasty.

Nasty by local standards, perhaps, but tame compared to the vitriol that your average McMegan thread unleashes at unfogged. Which is just one of the many things to love about this place.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 1:58 PM
horizontal rule
128

124.last: Bieber was born in 1978, has 171 friends on Facebook, and drives a 2002 Subaru.

That's Justin Bieber the Philadelphi personal injury lawyer.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 1:59 PM
horizontal rule
129

116 in that case I am an asshole, but a repentant one, and now an asshole better versed in local lore (aka TFA.)


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 2:18 PM
horizontal rule
130

Not at all, Smearcase! I'm sure it was therapeutic, and that I've grown!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 2:32 PM
horizontal rule
131

114: "Hypercharismatic telepathical knight" comes from here.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 2:35 PM
horizontal rule
132

I did get lost, but not my fault. A sign was down.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 3:29 PM
horizontal rule
133

shit, bob, don't go away. I will now go on record as always liking bob's comments, even and especially the totally crazy ones.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 4:54 PM
horizontal rule
134

I will now go on record as always liking bob's comments, even and especially the totally crazy ones.

Can you at least carve out an exception for one or two recent ones? I'm not trying to be all with-me-or-against-me, but geez.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 5:00 PM
horizontal rule
135

I don't read the whole blog anymore, so if he came out as a Nazi or something, I didn't like that one.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 5:04 PM
horizontal rule
136

That whole episode was an interesting education on how far you can make up for many things with attitude.

I wouldn't gloat too much. When it's really easy to be an asshole, I think there's a good chance that you always ever were.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 5:11 PM
horizontal rule
137

134: I think we collectively refudiate ths.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 5:45 PM
horizontal rule
138

To be fair, Bob was being a total jerk, but some people like jerks.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 6:03 PM
horizontal rule
139

Crap. Bombed the link.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 6:05 PM
horizontal rule
140

138: There's a whole "massage" industry that relying on that.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 6:05 PM
horizontal rule
141

I think there's a good chance that you always ever were.

No argument from me. A new direction though.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 6:25 PM
horizontal rule
142

Unfogged of old wasn't funnier. The frogurt thread above made me laugh out loud a bunch.

Old Unfogged did have a much higher rate of new posts, a lot more political posts, and a lot more linking posts. Posting is hard. I love being a front-page poster, but there are a lot of categories that I'm terrible at blogging.

There are a bunch of commenters who left, who I miss, but there are also a bunch of new commenters who I love.

I'd say Unfogged took a hit when the blogging heyday wound down, as someone mentioned above, but that happened a while ago, and we've been on a nice plateau for the past year or two.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 6:33 PM
horizontal rule
143

You guys have totally killed the blog. I have never seen so many contortions. NickS's last comment in the lengthy prior post is good.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 6:52 PM
horizontal rule
144

I agree, NickS' comment was excellent. I meant to note that earlier. Rumors of the blog's death, however, are greatly exaggerated.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 7:00 PM
horizontal rule
145

141: You were already being self-effacing, and I shouldn't have piled on.

I killed the blog, by my presence and then neglect. I ban myself for a thousand years.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 7:01 PM
horizontal rule
146

The blog is dead, but it can be resurrected thus: in total darkness, stand in front of a mirror and say, "Majik Johnson, Majik Johnson, Majik Johnson."


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 7:06 PM
horizontal rule
147

145.2: You did not!

If people could manage to develop a thicker skin, or a lighter attitude, it would be great. Circling the wagons I do not like. That is all.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 7:09 PM
horizontal rule
148

The problem with circling the wagons is that someone always, eventually, has revenge sex with your mom.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 7:12 PM
horizontal rule
149

Some people prefer not to shut themselves off behind a thicker skin. Some feel too seriously about certain things to take them more lightly. To each their own.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 7:14 PM
horizontal rule
150

Ok, but the thing is, Di, that makes you a bad person.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 7:17 PM
horizontal rule
151

Unfogged was certainly funnier back in the days, but this version has its charms.

Heebie, did you actually read Unfogged of old?


Posted by: David | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 7:20 PM
horizontal rule
152

I just want to be clear that no one should diss hippies, else I shall turn into an utterly humorless and skinless flint.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 7:25 PM
horizontal rule
153

150: That's it. I'm quitting the blog. You broke my heart, nosflow.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 7:27 PM
horizontal rule
154

Anyway, at least I'm no hippy.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 7:28 PM
horizontal rule
155

153 Are you going to be live-blogging your seduction of his parents, siblings, and best friends?


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 7:30 PM
horizontal rule
156

Absolutely! So best friends--that's pretty much everyone here, right?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 7:35 PM
horizontal rule
157

147: Circling the wagons I do not like.

I have this vision of the minature Unfogged chuckwagon (wrangling by minature neb) being chased through the house intertubes by a large dog named McManus before the wagon spookily disappears behind a cupboard door. There to be transformed into dogfood.

max
['It's BACON!']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 7:37 PM
horizontal rule
158

Unfogged was better when I was 12.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 7:43 PM
horizontal rule
159

I finally decide to quit and then you have an infrastructure thread and then standpipe and text show up again. I see how this works. In other news, it's way too easy to get around leechblock. I guess I should edit the hosts file.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 7:49 PM
horizontal rule
160

Right, because that's hard to get around.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 7:56 PM
horizontal rule
161

fa, I appreciate that you're writing about your expetiences elsewhere. I wanted to say that in the other thread but I also wanted to avoid saying so in that thread.

I think unfogged is nicer these days, but I also think the extent to which a reader comments matters a lot in terms of feelings. I had never expected to feel confortable and happy here. I don't kniwif I would have if I'd indeed commented in 2003, but there's a good old past contrary to fact for you. (Sorry for lack of hyphens, but I don't know whoch era would be most sympathetic to my laziness there.)


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 8:01 PM
horizontal rule
162

You have absolutely no idea how much I have appreciated most of my time here, how much I care about most of you.

I think you had a comment here recently, that came fairly out of the blue, saying that you cared deeply about Unfogged as a collective. It was touching, and I'm sorry to see you go so soon after that declaration.

I care about you too, bob. Take care of yourself.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 8:04 PM
horizontal rule
163

and then standpipe and text show up again

Rehab, I think.

I don't seem to be done quite yet: the driving people off business is uncool, and has a very chilling effect. I'm not going to argue about bob, except to say that he was, in bob fashion, trying to work with this place.

I'm also not too up for the thought that there's some kind of tussle going on for the soul of unfogged. !! The place has changed a lot; it is a politer society, not necessarily for the better. Just different, no doubt, but also more constrained and constricted. I'm not just talking about cock jokes.

Used to be a lot a philosophers here; now a lot of lawyers. That's changed the nature of discourse. And now I have become tired of this.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 8:32 PM
horizontal rule
164

You know, back in the good old days, an Unfogged thread like this would have ended in someone confessing a felony.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 8:37 PM
horizontal rule
165

Now all we have are misdemeanors. How low the mighty have fallen.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 8:38 PM
horizontal rule
166

Heebie, did you actually read Unfogged of old?

Uh, it depends when "of old" begins. When I started reading there was some lamenting of a time before already. But sometimes people lament for times, and I was there already.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 8:40 PM
horizontal rule
167

164. Funny, I was thinking that the only person I've seen driven off (invited in no uncertain terms to leave) during my time here that made utter sense was a person who'd confessed to a felony. Yeah.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 8:44 PM
horizontal rule
168

The only things that can kill Unfogged are satisfying work and successful romance.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 8:44 PM
horizontal rule
169

If people could manage to develop a thicker skin, or a lighter attitude, it would be great.

Really? Because I have held off on a million comments about my extreme privilege over the past month or so. But I'm happy to let loose.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 8:46 PM
horizontal rule
170

Is McManus really gone?


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 8:52 PM
horizontal rule
171

169: You just sent the comments off to be gilded and now they're back from the shop.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 8:53 PM
horizontal rule
172

170: Only mcmanus knows. Is that the real FL?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 8:54 PM
horizontal rule
173

Guys! Keep the meta stuff going. At this rate, we should manage to lure back Weiner by comment 500.


Posted by: emdash | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 8:56 PM
horizontal rule
174

169: Go ahead.

I hope McManus is not really gone, but he's a stubborn guy.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 8:58 PM
horizontal rule
175

Labs!


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 8:58 PM
horizontal rule
176

FL? Really? Is that what you were waiting for?


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 8:58 PM
horizontal rule
177

167: Although come to think of that, that thread was nothing like this. But I'll be damned if I let accuracy get in the way of an irresponsible analogy.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:07 PM
horizontal rule
178

161.1: Thanks, although that almost makes me wonder if there's someone else with my pseud writing elsewhere about more interesting experiences.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:24 PM
horizontal rule
179

177: Right. I don't remember that actual thread with any clarity, probably because it bore no resemblance to the last handful of drivings-off around here. Right. Sorry, must be getting tired.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:24 PM
horizontal rule
180

178: -Apparently some of us like to hear about roommates and libraries and so on. I feel comfortable using the royal we.

I'm also probably ready to go to bed at last, though a new crop of snoring makes me want to consider being somehow belligerant. If my dog is sleeping, surely I can do the same.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:38 PM
horizontal rule
181

168: Along those lines (that is a lie; OT), my promised report on first return to meat market: disaster! (It's not even midnight?) Epic disaster, playing into every insecurity, ever. Fantastic. Perhaps too soon?

My question for anyone who cares to answer: when does it (being unceremoniously dumped for a mythical (straight) person) stop being so so shitty? Enough for me to get laid? It's possible I'm crap at this, tho I used to be ok.

Feel free to ignore. I've had a drink or two. Still, though: a nunnery seems attractive rt now.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 9:57 PM
horizontal rule
182

Oh my god, I just literally ran into a door. So odds are good I will have an entirely different perspective on things in the morning. Commenting from one's blackberry is...inadvisable? Dangerous. Apologies.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:00 PM
horizontal rule
183

Still, though: a nunnery seems attractive rt now.

Been reading eighteenth century French let recently I take it?


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:04 PM
horizontal rule
184

My own post-surprise-break-up experience has been: a couple of brief awkward flings and then settle in for a good six months or more of being single. It was a harsh truth to face for me, and it may not be the same for you, but I think it's worth being prepared for, if it comes to that.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:12 PM
horizontal rule
185

Stanley, this is the second time you've mentioned a break-up. Did I miss an announcement? Is this the announcement? I'm sorry to hear it.

Do you need me to fix you up with crazy lesbians?


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:18 PM
horizontal rule
186

185: Wait, was that to me or to Stanley?

If to me: hell the fuck yes.

And also, you guys are really sweet.

I managed to run into some awkwardness tonight. NYC is apparently not that big. I think part of my shock was just the reminder of how tough it is to meet people in a bar. That shit SUCKS.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:21 PM
horizontal rule
187

Stanley: I feel you. Maybe. I dunno. I'm trying to empathize, but don't know your situation. Suffice to say: thank you for the advice, sincerely.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:22 PM
horizontal rule
188

Pretend they're the sisters and the mom of the person you're really trying to punish.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:23 PM
horizontal rule
189

185: I've been reluctant to talk about it here, so you didn't miss anything. Crazy lesbians would be great, because I wouldn't have to worry about the anxieties of sex but could still go to fun parties. Send on the crazy lesbians.

Also: my recent thing is nothing comparable to DQ's to be clear. It was mutual and quite civil; just out-of-the-blue-ish.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:23 PM
horizontal rule
190

Can (either of) you come to Sacramento to claim them?


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:25 PM
horizontal rule
191

OT gloating sharing: We just got back from seeing a new cut of Metropolis, with 25 minutes of restored footage, inside an old power plant, with a live score. It was very cool.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:31 PM
horizontal rule
192

Ahaha. I'm just imagining what a surplus of crazy lesbians looks like. What it does to your property values. (Actually probably helps; have they started a garden? Compost heap? What have you?)

There must be crazy nesting going on.

If I could...I would. Sacramento is far, though. Also the territory of my mom's recent ex / my recent ex step-whatever. So. Probs not.

Stanley?


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:31 PM
horizontal rule
193

Holy crap, Stanley, that sucks. Civil or not, I'm really sorry.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:32 PM
horizontal rule
194

189: Condolences, Stanster, that's rough.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:32 PM
horizontal rule
195

189: Damn, I'm sorry to hear that.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:35 PM
horizontal rule
196

I'm sorry to hear it, too, Stanley.

Would seeing a new cut of Metropolis help?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:37 PM
horizontal rule
197

Ari, I finally read Mockingjay. It didn't have the verve of Hunger Games, I didn't think.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:37 PM
horizontal rule
198

192: Flights are expensive. Though I'll be in Miami in January, so if Megan has a Miami connection...

193: Thanks. It's fine. It's actually been awhile; I've just not talked about it here, having been well-taken-care-of in the off-blog world (overlap: Di Kotimy sent me a very sweet CD). Focus your break-up advice on DQ's woes, people.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:37 PM
horizontal rule
199

Would seeing a new cut of Metropolis help?

Is the answer to this question ever "no"?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:39 PM
horizontal rule
200

197: No spoilers, please!!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:40 PM
horizontal rule
201

199: No.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:40 PM
horizontal rule
202

Hmmm. I wish I had more to offer.

Virtual hug?


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:40 PM
horizontal rule
203

No spoilers? But I thought I was the last person on earth to read it.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:42 PM
horizontal rule
204

I'm #86 on the library's waiting list.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:44 PM
horizontal rule
205

197: agreed. And I found myself disappointed to discover that I didn't care enough about the characters to overlook hasty storytelling, muddled plotting, and a sudden conclusion. Oh well, it was a great ride for two books.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:45 PM
horizontal rule
206

DUDE. I was 113 on the list (82 copies), and then I was first on the list. Then the book was IN TRANSIT. But it didn't arrive on Friday, which would mean I wouldn't get it until Tuesday, so I finally caved and bought the hardback copy I didn't want. I should send it to you.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:46 PM
horizontal rule
207

Crap, I didn't see 200 or I wouldn't have mentioned that Dumbledore died. Sorry.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:46 PM
horizontal rule
208

(Stanley: if you find yourself worked up and Werner Herzog doesn't do it for you, try a documentary on the Buddha. ...I have odd coping mechanisms. But: I'm doing the solidarity fist-pump.)

Good night all.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 10:49 PM
horizontal rule
209

Sorry about the split, Stanley. You know who always makes all of Unfogged feel better? Brad Neely, that's who.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:06 PM
horizontal rule
210

Sorry Stanley, karaoke might help if you still need help, I hear it's something the unfoggedariat likes

DQ It's been a while but about half a year after a very difficult break up, when I decided it was time to start dating, I found that online stuff was very good for meeting other traumatized and horny people. It wasn't particularly good for developing friendships or even casual relationships and I wasn't up to serious relationships, but they sure seemed into random sex.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:11 PM
horizontal rule
211

stand in front of a mirror and say, "Majik Johnson, Majik Johnson, Majik Johnson."

I tried this. Nobody died, but an individual did come around making infuriatingly reasonable statements. And then ogged kept complimenting him in an uncomfortable, supplicating way.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:14 PM
horizontal rule
212

164: I killed Christ.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:39 PM
horizontal rule
213

213: join the club.


Posted by: the jews | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:42 PM
horizontal rule
214

Alas, we're usually known for our humor.


Posted by: the jews | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:43 PM
horizontal rule
215

And that rust colored Pesach matzoh.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:46 PM
horizontal rule
216

I was quite skeptical of seeing that new cut of Metropolis, because it seems like every fire years or so there's a new version. But it's really great, and of course never a bad idea to re-watch Metropolis.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 09-11-10 11:50 PM
horizontal rule
217

Never a bad idea as long as you avoid the colorized one with the Giorgio Moroder soundtrack.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 12:16 AM
horizontal rule
218

Why is it impossible, I wonder, to find the soundtrack (Moroder or not, I"m not sure. I hardly know 'er, in any case.) on cd, by which I guess I mean a suite because it's awfully damn long. Also why am I awake, I wonder too as well.

Could the reason there used to be more postings back in the day perhaps be simply that more than a third of the front page posters presumably posted things and weren't peace-be-upon-them gone or just very intermittent checker-inners? I'm asking. I wasn't here.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 1:55 AM
horizontal rule
219

Not having known an older Unfogged I definitely do prefer the current one. But as I am here now it can only get better, so retry this post in a year or so & the responses can be conclusive.


Posted by: Earnest O'Nest | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 3:10 AM
horizontal rule
220

last handful of drivings-off around here.

"Handful"? Really? So there was the felony thing however many years ago. Read a year ago. And now Bob. (Accepting, arguendo, that these folks were "driven off.") Do you recall, Parsi, that read drove me off before anyone managed to persuade her to take it elsewhere? Is it your opinion that I was just being too thin-skinned, but read, well she was righteously offended by people calling her a jerk? Is that it? Telling people to quit acting like abusive jerks qualifies as "driving away" in your belief system? But being an abusive jerk, even if that causes people to leave, that's not "driving away" but just a bunch of thin-skinned babies taking a little abuse far too seriously?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 3:42 AM
horizontal rule
221

DS!

Clearly the answer to this is to give Bob the keys on the understanding that he only posts about movies and only on Sunday mornings or some other quiet slot. And he can say what he wants in those threads.

I miss Stras. Really. The only bugger to seriously lose his shit at me.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 3:56 AM
horizontal rule
222

220. As I remember, I took a six month break after that incident because I couldn't work out why nobody was working on keeping you around rather than read. I'm no use in that kind of situation because I instinctively walk away from it. I can resist that instinct IRL sometimes, but not so much on line.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:10 AM
horizontal rule
223

Thanks, Chris. I appreciate that. (To be fair, quite a few lurkers supported me in email.) In a situation like that one, somebody inevitably was going to be "driven off" by the acrimony. I find Parsi's handwringing over assholes being unable to bear being called assholes, well, a little assholish.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:26 AM
horizontal rule
224

You seriously should get yourself a "Home" button on these discussion pages.


Posted by: Earnest O'Nest | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:41 AM
horizontal rule
225

223: Chiming in merely to call someone an asshole seems non-constructive, but the failure to speak up has the effect of making the troll's target feel isolated.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:19 AM
horizontal rule
226

My recollection of Unfogged's history is that we've had very few high-profile "drivings-off," a few high-profile stormings-off, and rather a lot of driftings-away. I'm sure BG (the unofficial blog historian) has a list of them all.


Posted by: emdash | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:45 AM
horizontal rule
227

220 223

You and read got into a fight. You had a bunch of friends willing to take your side (without much apparent concern about who was right) and read didn't so you won.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 7:33 AM
horizontal rule
228

Read annoyed the fuck out of me and I enjoy Di quite a lot. The end.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 7:39 AM
horizontal rule
229

227: Oh good grief, why do I bother, but, no -- re-read that thread (1 year ago today!). A whole lot of folks took read's side or claimed that there was zero difference between what read was saying and what Di was saying. Some of read's comments were so vile and offensive (and made with read's stated intent to be vile and offensive to Di "because she is so weak and whiny" [vel sim.]) that they ought to have been deleted. She had so many defenders (remember, too, that read was recently back after another large dust-up in which a non-zero number of folks had left because everyone was so mean to read [d2 among them]), in fact, that someone in that thread (who had maybe been a defender?) remonstrated with read that she was badly embarrassing those who had spoken up for her.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 7:50 AM
horizontal rule
230

227 You had a bunch of friends willing to take your side (without much apparent concern about who was right) and read didn't so you won.

Oh, fuck off. You were around for the thread six months before read's departure when read accused Di of being so selfish that she wouldn't even care if a friend committed suicide. There was a persistent and vicious set of attacks by read on Di that was unprovoked and really explicitly trying to cause emotional pain, not just the casual sniping you see all the time in blog comment threads.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 7:56 AM
horizontal rule
231

228: That's pretty much why I think Megan's call for discipline from the frontpagers based on procedural fairness was such a goofy idea. In any nasty argument there's going to be a side with more charming and endearing and generally valuable to the blog posters, and we're just unlikely to take action against them, for fear of losing people we'd miss. At that point, anything purporting to be procedural fairness turns into an unpleasant kind of figleaf over a popularity contest.

I'd rather keep any enforcement there is honestly arbitrary.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:00 AM
horizontal rule
232

227: The relevant thread is linked above, James. Read it. As between me and read in that thread, it's really quite clear who was right. It's also quite clear that there was hardly any one-sided taking of my side. Read herself made it quite clear that she targeted me not because I had somehow wronged her (I hadn't) but because I looked "vulnerable." She was, of course, quite right. Take whatever side you want, but don't rewrite history.

Also, I enjoy Heebie quite a bit, too.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:08 AM
horizontal rule
233

Use 1d20s.
Bob rolls an 8, fails his saving throw and writhes in LizardBreath's Crushing Group for 1d6 days!


Posted by: Awl | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:10 AM
horizontal rule
234

Damn and double damn. Crushing Grip.
Awl staggers beneath a sudden rush of typobats.


Posted by: Awl | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:11 AM
horizontal rule
235

Buck might not be happy about my handing out precisely that kind of discipline.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:13 AM
horizontal rule
236

Fewer Testicle-crushing jokes at the Unfogged Crushing Group.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:15 AM
horizontal rule
237

I also have no desire to have this particular discussion again. So carry on as you will, but I'm off to swim mow the lawn.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:15 AM
horizontal rule
238

231: You're probably basically right. But I'm pretty comfortable saying that my reasons for calling a particular shot boil down to X perpetually pissing me off, while I quite like Y.

Calling it a popularity contest seems to cheapen my desire to govern based on who gives me the most love and adoration.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:16 AM
horizontal rule
239

238: And that's fine, really. Taking action on the basis of "I find the blog more irritating with you commenting than without," is reasonable, and a fine way to keep the comments chill. The procedural justice thing just seems unworkable -- the standard isn't justice, but taste.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:28 AM
horizontal rule
240

OFF WITH EVERYONE'S HEADS!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:32 AM
horizontal rule
241

It is true that read allowed herself to be baited into self-destructing. So she looked pretty bad at the end. But there was a prior history.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:32 AM
horizontal rule
242

you should all read the book metropolis, by the director's wife (he based the movie on it.) I read it the other day and it blew my mind and I considered, how is this not a canonical work of SF like stapledon or something? it turns out she was a big Nazi. like, joined the party in 32 Nazi. but we still care about leni riefenstahl! seriously, it is better in some ways. you can also understand the movie about 1000% better. YOU MUST READ THIS!!


Posted by: alameida, who has rather a strong opinion | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:48 AM
horizontal rule
243

Well, see, your taste is fine, because you are the blog overlords.

Fifth, if you'd step in before banning, as in telling people to come back in a week, or telling people to leave a particular thread then you might have to worry less about the consequences of taking sides.

Fourthly, of course you could enforce it. Send someone who's wigging an email and modify the next few comments and people will get the message.

I don't see why that strikes you as more objectionable than the dynamic we're in now, in which we're entrained in the same dumb arguments. (Unless it seems more objectionable because it creates more work for you and gives you additional responsibilities. But that's the cost for avoiding this type of fight.)


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:30 AM
horizontal rule
244

You guys have more tools than we do, and we know where we get when we use the tools we have (which is essentially commenting or not, which is the pile on/leave target isolated problem). Use your tools so that we can have a different outcome. It might be better, might not, but we know that everyone acting as if they're bystanders works out poorly.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:39 AM
horizontal rule
245

241: What's this, are you the rep for the troll union? Plenty of people tried to persuade read to tone it down, on and off blog, but no, she had to be Free!!! Free to be as offensive as possible! Otherwise she would be letting people tell her what to dooooo!!!! By the time she left, I was glad to see her go. Same with McManus. Fuck him.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:51 AM
horizontal rule
246

220: "Handful"? Really? So there was the felony thing however many years ago. Read a year ago. And now Bob.

I was thinking of Stras, actually, more than read.

Is it your opinion that I was just being too thin-skinned, but read, well she was righteously offended by people calling her a jerk?

No, it's not my opinion that read was righteously offended by people calling her a jerk. She was being a jerk, and I don't believe I've suggested otherwise.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 10:09 AM
horizontal rule
247
Use your tools so that we can have a different outcome. It might be better, might not, but we know that everyone acting as if they're bystanders works out poorly.

UnfoggedCon 2011: Be The Change You Want To See In The World.


Posted by: Awl | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 10:42 AM
horizontal rule
248

244: The kind of oversight you prescribe assumes the frontpagers are working in shifts, monitoring every single comment in real time. It's probably not far from the truth—I'd be surprised if a half hour passed without one of the frontpagers popping by and catching up on comments, our lives being that exciting.

Even with that sort of "response level", you're still going to end up with shit like the recent bobocalypse: by the time LB and nosflow showed up and sternly stepped in, the wreckage was already there and getting worse despite their interventions.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 12:24 PM
horizontal rule
249

i didn't read that thread or this one; could someone give a 2 sentence summary? did bob leave or get kicked?


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 12:28 PM
horizontal rule
250

249: He left in the "more in sorrow than in anger" style.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 12:30 PM
horizontal rule
251

248: I agree, actually. The front pagers aren't exactly getting paid for their efforts here. It's a lot to ask for comment moderation in a forum like this one. It would be nice if there were an easy solution to this kind of crap, but I honestly don't think anything more can be done than to speak out when someone is being out of line, and then withdraw from engagement. The problem is we don't all agree about what's out of line -- so when three people call foul, and 2 retort that whatever it was was perfectly fine, we get a shitstorm. If people could stop being wrong about such things, it would really help.

Pars, I'm glad I misunderstood. Can you see, though, how I got that impression when youreferred to a "handful" of drivings off and the read thing had been brought up already in this thread?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 1:37 PM
horizontal rule
252

251.last: I can see that. I'm not as read-focused as you (for understandable reasons) are, so we were looking in completely different directions.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 2:16 PM
horizontal rule
253

Unfogged is one of the few blogs where it really doesn't matter if you're a front pager or not; make them into the blog police and that will change.


Posted by: Martin Wisse | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 2:23 PM
horizontal rule
254

253 is well-put. Megan's process proposes strike me literally (yes, literally) insane. If this blog were that kind of benevolent dictatorship, I would quit reading it.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 2:32 PM
horizontal rule
255

Nosflow will be banning you for 'literally' abuse now.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 2:36 PM
horizontal rule
256

No, I'll be banning you for not keeping track of my positions.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 2:39 PM
horizontal rule
257

Yeah, but then he'll feel bad when Megan announces that her plan has the full endorsement of FDR, the Archangel Gabriel, and the front four of the 1976 Pittsburgh Steelers defense, the famed "Steel Curtain".


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 2:41 PM
horizontal rule
258

248:

If anything good has come of the Late Unpleasantness, it's got to be the word "bobocalypse".


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 2:42 PM
horizontal rule
259

256: Curses, foiled again.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 2:46 PM
horizontal rule
260

Seriously though, we're all going to be a lot happier when bob comes back.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 2:49 PM
horizontal rule
261

Will he bring cargo?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 2:50 PM
horizontal rule
262

Ogged will bring cargo.
Labs will bring gay porn.
Bob will bring dogs.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 2:52 PM
horizontal rule
263

And movies, of course.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 2:52 PM
horizontal rule
264

the front four of the 1976 Pittsburgh Steelers defense, the famed "Steel Curtain".

They called them that because during the off-season, they sold security gates for store fronts. Salaries weren't so high in those days.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 2:54 PM
horizontal rule
265

Agree in full with 257.

I hope Bob and Read and Dsquared all come back, which should not at all be seen as tacit or explicit endorsement of everything they've ever written, which is the problem with this whole insanely annoying "whose side are you on" discourse. If the blog propietors start running anything like Megan's scheme, I'm out of here.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 3:17 PM
horizontal rule
266

Which would probably be good for my productivity.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 3:19 PM
horizontal rule
267

I meant 254; I'm not too sure what the Steel Curtain has to do with anything.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 3:22 PM
horizontal rule
268

And Stras.

Also, no moderation but that which develops organically through lengthy, lengthy, teeth-gnashing discussion, the occasional quiet remark, and arm-wrestling.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 3:27 PM
horizontal rule
269

Oh for crying out loud, Halford. Neither Bob nor read was a situation where people were demanding that people pick teams. Both were situations in which inappropriate personal comments were made and called out. And yeah, when someone explicitly declares an intent to target a commenter for deliberate cruelty, or decides to imply that a commenter is a wife-beater, the targets are kind of a little justified in taking offense when people expressly approve of the conduct. Your heartfelt annoyance at people speaking out when they or people they care about are attacked is insane. If you prefer a forum where people sit by quietly and just accept whatever abuse is thrown their way, you're in the wrong place.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 3:32 PM
horizontal rule
270

And I don't think anything is keeping bob or read or DS or stras away other than their own decision to move on. If we want to discuss commenters we wish would return, I'm going to go with Cala and I Don't Pay and Katherine, and I wish Teo and M.Leblanc and Otto von Bisquick were around more often.

And, of course, Ogged.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 3:38 PM
horizontal rule
271

Expressing annoyance and fighting back are fine. The calls for banning, escalating the situation, and then demanding loyalty from all who don't choose condemnation, is extremely annoying in my book. Although I might have reacted the same way you did in the same situation, I think the read and McManus situations were basically both massive overreactions to engaging, decent weirdos who are pretty clearly slightly mentally ill.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 3:40 PM
horizontal rule
272

270: It's true, I'm sad they're all gone as well, even more so as it's clear to me that you'll never hear from any of them again, unless you happen to visit my basement.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 3:42 PM
horizontal rule
273

I'm not going to revisit the read thing, and I don't know what bob said, and don't care to find out, but I can guess that it was something crazy. Come on guys, bob says crazy things. That's his role and function, and when we get annoyed, we call him a troll, but his craziness is fun and interesting and sometimes correct. And yes, abusive; he'll imply we're all idiots -- that's about 80% of the charm.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 3:47 PM
horizontal rule
274

text: maybe refrain from weighing in on an incident when you're also explicitly saying that you're not even going to bother finding out what the incident was.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:00 PM
horizontal rule
275

but his craziness is fun and interesting and sometimes correct.

You're pretty easily amused. Maybe having lived with a crazy person has immunized me to the charm of craziness, but I don't get it.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:07 PM
horizontal rule
276

Nostalgia already? How can you ever miss me...

1) Been a long hot summer, even for Dallas. The dogs and I are depressed and irritable. We may not have that many parks and pools left.

2) There was, like age 5-30 in which I fucking read good books. I was a happy boy Then I threw The Names against the wall and switched to genre fiction, jigsaw puzzles and radio sports from 1980 to about 9/11. Somehow the Internets have, if not reinvigorated my intellect, at least returned my misplaced ambition. There is help available for the first time in my life on the net, scholars.

Dialectic of Enlightenment is sitting there. Le Goff. Bloch. Lyotard. I want it. I think I need it. Maybe I should throw in some Critical Thinking and Grammar and start a blog, but I am a selfish person, or think just reading smart people gives them something. Grateful Dead.

Doesn't matter, maybe its pointless and purposeless, pathetic and ridiculous, maybe I never understood a word, but I enjoyed reading hard books.
Like you can't imagine how much.

But there is this damn crack I am addicted to that I can't seem to do in moderation. It has been eating me for years that I can't find the time or space to read the damn books. It bugs me to comment on a site and somebody mentions Braudel and over there Braudel sits, like a Christmas Ghost. It has been making me mean.

I gotta pull the plug on the blogs. Maybe I will gradually shift to autonomism or something and organize. But I no longer see any point to yelling about politics.

The pigs have won tonight

My email is unlikely to change, unless Goldman Sachs buys Time Warner. Wake me for the guillotines.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:12 PM
horizontal rule
277

Read got a lot of abuse for almost the entirety of her tenure here (and the fact that she seemed fairly vulnerable didn't seem to faze her attackers at all) and, while she was colossally nasty to Di at the end, I don't think the situation with her was like that with bob even a little.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:13 PM
horizontal rule
278

Old man wants to relive his wasted youth. Kinda funny. Fuck it.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:17 PM
horizontal rule
279

I have to say, 271 gets it exactly right. Yes people end up picking teams and, at that point, it's almost impossible to say anything without it being taken as weighing in in favor of one side or another.

That said, like Halford, I would also be trying to put together a team to back me up if somebody was attacking me in a personal and unpleasant manner, and wouldn't back off.

Thankfully it doesn't actually happen that often. I do find 253 to be a succinct and convincing argument for why additional moderation isn't the right response.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:18 PM
horizontal rule
280

maybe refrain from weighing in on an incident when you're also explicitly saying that you're not even going to bother finding out what the incident was.

I respect your wishes, but that is just not what this place is about.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:22 PM
horizontal rule
281

277 gets it exactly right. I think read got the shitty end of the stick really rather more than some people ought to feel comfortable about. Although she was, as you say, bang out of order re: Di at the end.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:22 PM
horizontal rule
282

280: so okay, in the spirit of robust public debate, he intimated that I beat Blume, you stupid worthless fuck. Now you're informed, you loser fucking jackass, and you can shut the fuck up for another eight months and we'll all be the better for it.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:26 PM
horizontal rule
283

See? Robust, bracing public debate and nobody has to get all whiny and quit the blog for three hours! HOORAY!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:26 PM
horizontal rule
284

283: But 282 is so appallingly rude that I'm going to refrain from commenting for the next five minutes!


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:30 PM
horizontal rule
285

282:Ecce homo. But you love him! He's so funny!

Whatever.

I can't be drawn back into this cesspool.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:31 PM
horizontal rule
286

It was a crazy thing for him to say. Personally, I don't know why you'd take it seriously, but I guess everyone has buttons.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:35 PM
horizontal rule
287

In the spirit of telling pointless stuff about daily life, it's weird how the interactions here mirror what's going on in my poker gang. We've been playing for around six years, with people drifting in and out and a small nucleus that stays relatively stable. What started out as a fun time for people who weren't too attached to each other has become a very strong social bond. Because of the game, I guess, people always got pissed at each other and picked fights from time to time. Now, though, that type of thing is always accompanied by some who consider quitting because it isn't what it once was, and every blowup is magnified because people are more invested in the relationships.

Also, I won five dollars there.


Posted by: Awl | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:36 PM
horizontal rule
288

I respect your wishes, but that is just not what this place is about.

Meta-blog discussion is not quite the same as an article linked in a post. Do try to keep up.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:37 PM
horizontal rule
289

text why don't you let slip a fact or two about your personal life and I'll see if I can gin up some ways to use it against you. Ideally it would be something involving somebody who is blameless, but can be drawn into the whole stupid fucking argument, like maybe your mother. What's her name?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:37 PM
horizontal rule
290

And on that reasonably vituperative note, I'm going to quit the blog for three hours like an asshole. Good luck getting bob to come back, everybody!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:39 PM
horizontal rule
291

I can't be drawn back into this cesspool.

What's it called when the very act of making a statement invalidates the statement being made?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:40 PM
horizontal rule
292

Listen, it's sweet that you are being protective about this, but it sounds to me that you were the one being insulted. It was an insult, and I'm sure it went beyond whatever else was being said, but people insult each other here all the time. Not saying that they should, but do you really want the special protection you have asked for here, and are getting?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:42 PM
horizontal rule
293

To unquit the blog after a record two minutes (take THAT, half-assed half-assed quitters!) really, text, if you weigh in without having read the thread in question you just look more like a fucking idiot with every comment. I swear to god, this isn't just me yelling at you, now I'm, trying to help. What did I ask for, when? Can you point to that?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:45 PM
horizontal rule
294

RTFA, MF.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:46 PM
horizontal rule
295

I, type, lots, of, commas, when, I'm, trying, to, help, people, not, look, like, morons, apparently.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:46 PM
horizontal rule
296

290:Comedy is controlling. WTF does that guy contribute?

I stand by my original concerns. Sifu is scary. This situation is I think typical, including the utter rejection of my intuitions. There are a lot of cursers and ragers about but I never worried about Emerson or anybody else. Even ToS.

I would never blame the victim. Sifu is not a victim here.
Blume and I have had interactions, and I have felt she feels...compelled...to support Sifu.

How about the rest of you? Read the thread. Who is demanding support? Am I being threatening to the crowd? Where is the rage?

I hope I'm wrong. I know I'm unwelcome.

Keep an eye on each other. Have care.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:53 PM
horizontal rule
297

Fine, I am going to search through all the fucking threads and read it now. As to who looks like a moron, I'll let all the lurkers who email me decide.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:55 PM
horizontal rule
298

Text, look, we (you and I, I mean) can probably agree that an insult from bob, no matter the content, is not something that, objectively, merits getting very worked up about, but if Sifu is worked up about it, and found it insulting, then it's a little silly to pester him so forcefully to the effect that it's irrational or absurd that he's offended. You know?

He didn't like it from bob, and bob should have laid off. He doesn't like hectoring from you about it, so why don't you lay off? I mean (avert your eyes, Sifu)—I wish he'd just shrugged it off too! But, among other things, your comments don't have the presumption of trollishness that bob's do, so even if the initial reaction was too strong in virtue of the source, the reaction to your comments is, well, a little better justified.

HANDY CHEAT SHEET:

Does someone not like it when you do that to them?
ACTUALLY THEY LOVE IT: Keep up the good work.
THEY DON'T MIND: Well, do you like it?
   YES: Go for it.
   NO: So stop already.
NO, THEY DON'T LIKE IT: Maybe don't do it, then.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:55 PM
horizontal rule
299

Must... obey... man.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:58 PM
horizontal rule
300

How did a little bitch grow up to be so wise?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:58 PM
horizontal rule
301

See, consider bob's thing about Blume in his most recent comment. You might think, neither Sifu nor Blume should get all that worked up about it, because, hey, bob. It's not as if anyone takes that remark seriously.

Suppose one of them does take offense, though. You might express the above thought thus: "yeah, that's a shitty thing to say, but, you know, bob. Don't let it get to you—that's my advice. He's nuts."

That comes off pretty well-intentioned, don't you think?

Here's a bad way to express the above thought: "I can't believe you got upset at that. Talk about hypersensitive! WTF is wrong with you?"

That's just insulting in its own right!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 4:59 PM
horizontal rule
302

Actually, Bob, I wouldn't worry about Dialectic. Despite everything he said, Adorno knew whose side he was on - when the students occupied the department in 1968 he called the cops on them. Having had the landespolizei kick seven bells of shit out of the people who were trying to put all the stuff in Erziehung zur Mündigkeit about education needing to be a subversive act into effect, he then went for a long holiday on Sylt where the Hamburg shipowner/merchant class hangs out and repeatedly didn't appear in court as a witness, either for the cops he called or for his students' defence. the whole thing is quite sad.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:01 PM
horizontal rule
303

300 was meant sincerely, btw -- both 298 and 301 are seriously smart reflections on how to deal with these kinds of issues.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:08 PM
horizontal rule
304

What neb said. Emphatically.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:09 PM
horizontal rule
305

Maybe neb is secretly using us all to do experimental moral philosophy.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:10 PM
horizontal rule
306

Nosflow wins the thread blog!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:12 PM
horizontal rule
307

300 was meant sincerely, btw

Yeah, but unfortunately it looks like a response to 299.

(That's a joke, btw. As is, clearly, 299).

Jesus Christ, people. What the hell happened over the weekend?!


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:12 PM
horizontal rule
308

302:No, the advice professionals give to those who would pre-emptively intervene is to just walk away.

I just kept seeing the uncontrolled rage from Sifu in this thread at all the other commenters, and everyone's inability to see...

...neb, why don't you just close this thread, and try to avoid bringing me, read, or related subjects up. Sifu will calm down if he gets to dominate the blog. I don't need an area of power or control.

Keep an eye on each other is all I asked.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:13 PM
horizontal rule
309

Adding my voice to the "neb is vey wise" chorus.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:17 PM
horizontal rule
310

It seems a little silly for neb to close the thread now that we're all praising his wisdom and leadership. Unless he were to put 298 and 300 up in the form of a new post so we could go praise him there.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:18 PM
horizontal rule
311

And yet you continue to taunt him with typos.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:19 PM
horizontal rule
312

Interesting thought!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:19 PM
horizontal rule
313

I mean, thanks, everyone. My secret is that I listened to Ted Cohen tell racist jokes.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:19 PM
horizontal rule
314

Ok, my judgment: that was shitty of bob. Egg all over my face. Here's the only thing, guys. Bob gets shit on every day here, and Blume and Tweety, you don't. Maybe bob is a complete asshole who just comes here to beguile and mislead, but even then, against his will perhaps, he ends up writing comments that I enjoy to read. More likely he's a somewhat mad fellow who wants to participate here, felt attacked and struck out irrationally. To go apeshit over bob makes you look bad, and when I saw that he had successfully trolled someone, I didn't think it was you guys.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:25 PM
horizontal rule
315

I stand by my original concerns. Sifu is scary.

What concerns, bob? Didn't you spend multiple posts being theatrically offended that people were taking your "concerns" seriously? Didn't you just do that again in 285?

bob, you are transparently acting in bad faith. I don't see how anybody can give you a pass on this any more unless, like text, they are proudly ignorant.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:26 PM
horizontal rule
316

We see Sifu's uncontrolled rage as clearly as we see Obama's Hitler moustache.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:28 PM
horizontal rule
317

We all have our buttons, text.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:29 PM
horizontal rule
318

comments that I enjoy to read

This looks weirdly ungrammatical to me. Is this just my idiolect being peculiar, or does it bother others? ("I like to read" is fine. "I enjoy reading" is fine. "I enjoy to read" sounds totally bizarre to me.)


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:31 PM
horizontal rule
319

Not me. I have a touch screen.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:32 PM
horizontal rule
320

Why are picking on text, essear?


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:33 PM
horizontal rule
321

318: You are correct. Or at least not alone.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:33 PM
horizontal rule
322

I learned awhile back I can be a bit tone deaf on this blog. Perhaps also in life. Hugs and kisses, folks.

Still, here is what I object to:

In fact, bob believes that good faith is for suckers, as his own words reveal. And every day that we treat him with anything better than derision proves him right.

This was knecht. I think it's wrong. Assuming that is bob's belief, we prove ourselves hypocrites by failing to afford him good faith. If that's his game, he's winning. We prove ourselves suckers just by spending so much time here.

Sorry guys, I love you, but it doesn't look good to kick bob.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:35 PM
horizontal rule
323

318/320: It sounds stilted but not wrong to me. And I can't think of any good reason for the stiltedness- "enjoy" is clearly a transitive verb, right? So it should take an infinitive as a direct object, no problem. Weird.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:37 PM
horizontal rule
324

323 was supposed to have "emotion" somewhere in the description of the kind of verb "enjoy" is.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:38 PM
horizontal rule
325

Fuck it, if you want to be mad at him, be mad. But "enjoy to read" is perfectly fine.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:39 PM
horizontal rule
326

"enjoy" is clearly a transitive verb, right? So it should take an infinitive as a direct object, no problem.

Huh?

In many cases, the infinitive as a direct object makes sense to me only if it expresses purpose (I bike to exercise; I eat to gain weight; I see to gain visual information [seems bizarre in other respects]). But that doesn't make any sense with "enjoy to read". And "enjoy to read" parallel to "like to read" also strikes me as odd.

If this thread continues, it can only be to continue discussing this issue or to continue praising me.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:42 PM
horizontal rule
327

Oh I guess I can think of some other emotion verbs that seem to behave the same way. Fear, appreciate, anticipate, and resent, so far. Too bad I never read any syntax or I might know something about this.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:44 PM
horizontal rule
328

well we miss neil the werewolf, and maybe soup. And tia, of course. Always tia.

this meta handwringing is getting boring though.

[now, back to supporting in email]



Posted by: the lurkers | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:44 PM
horizontal rule
329

Guys, if you want to sidetrack me on grammar, that's going to work. "Enjoy to read" is fine. Perhaps stilted, but some of us go for that.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:46 PM
horizontal rule
330

325: I really don't think it is fine, but this is an aspect of English grammar I've never consciously considered before. Some verbs can only go with gerunds and others are fine with infinitives. I can say "stop fucking with my head!", but "stop to fuck with my head!" doesn't work (or, rather, means something entirely different, like 'stop [in order] to...'). But I'm not sure I have a logical grasp of which verbs fall in which category; it's one of those things that just sounds right or wrong.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:46 PM
horizontal rule
331

326- all the emotion-related verbs I thought of at first, seemed fine with an infinitive

love to x
hate to x
want to x
like to x
desire to x

then I thought of the ones in 327, though, so now I have withdrawn my claim of weirdness. And substituted another one, which is that I don't know what the difference between the two groups is.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:46 PM
horizontal rule
332

Google turns up a nifty list, but it doesn't help elucidate the underlying principle.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:47 PM
horizontal rule
333

Di:
I have no buttons. Everything I wear is break-away.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:47 PM
horizontal rule
334

329- is it a Brit/USian thing? Where are you from (ish) and what do you think of the verbs in 327, with infinitive objects?


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:48 PM
horizontal rule
335

I agree that "enjoy to read" looks malformed, but I'm not sure why. (It actually looks specifically like an utterance from someone whose first language is French or Spanish, maybe Russian: I'm hearing it in a comedy accent.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:50 PM
horizontal rule
336

right, but when you are modifying the verb, rather than issuing a declaration, an infinitive works just as well as a gerund.

"I enjoy making hats"

"I enjoy to make hats"

shit, that looks wrong. fuck you all, motherfuckers.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:51 PM
horizontal rule
337

332- that's a terrible list! it mixes modal verbs with normal verbs, and gerunds with non. Boo, prescriptivist grammars. (but yay, you. I'm totally sure you're extremely smart and pretty. Please don't take this criticism personally in any way.)


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:51 PM
horizontal rule
338

Everything I write should be voiced in a comedy accent. LB has caught me out. I'm actually Russian. I've been using this blog to figure out how to read and write in your stupid language, and now I'm going to pick someone out and insult them until you all hate me.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:54 PM
horizontal rule
339

337: I don't understand. Are you disagreeing with their categorization of which verbs work with infinitives and which with gerunds? I don't see why it matters if the verbs are modal or not; there are some verbs that work with infinitives, some with gerunds, and some with both, and whether the verb is modal or not doesn't seem to be a factor in the determination. Or am I missing your point?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:55 PM
horizontal rule
340

I was also confused by the reference to emotions when classifying "enjoy". I mean, if we're going by what the verb expresses, then the phrase "can live with" seems to be of the same type as "enjoy" (though plainly it has a different valence).

Perhaps also "esteem". "I esteem bathing": fine. "I esteem to bathe": nonsense.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 5:59 PM
horizontal rule
341

328: and maybe soup

Maybe soup? Maybe?! I must fight these "lurkers" this instant, for soup is the most missed of all! I say we vote.

Seriously, I read the phrase "enjoy to read" as a somewhat playful locution, technically wrong for English, but otherwise unobjectionable.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:00 PM
horizontal rule
342

I do esteem bathing, too.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:00 PM
horizontal rule
343

What about slol? You know, I'm starting to think Unf lied to me when he told me all the old commenters went to live on a farm.

Actually, where's Brock been?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:01 PM
horizontal rule
344

342: Myself, I do pilates. But esteem bathing sounds like fun as well.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:02 PM
horizontal rule
345

This blog needs a Russian Baths meet-up.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:04 PM
horizontal rule
346

The list seems accurate as a list, but doesn't include any categories that I can see and the forms of the verbs in question (the main verbs, not the direct objects) are all over the place which makes it impossible to figure out what the rule is.

It's interesting that 'enjoy' is the only entry with the special note. This must be a more common error.

The illustration is also very nice.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:06 PM
horizontal rule
347

But what about "I hate to bathe"? Perfectly acceptable. "I like to bathe." Same. I put "enjoy" in the category. Fuck you all motherfuckers in your motherfucking belly-buttons!


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:06 PM
horizontal rule
348

Di: I have no buttons.

You have a bellybutton.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:07 PM
horizontal rule
349

I put "enjoy" in the category.

this is when, in the old days, we took leave to make sweet love to our oboes.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:08 PM
horizontal rule
350

346.1: Right; I think it works perfectly well as a descriptive account of which choice is made for various verbs. It doesn't give any insight on the underlying rule. (Is it possible that there is no underlying rule, just historical accidents? I feel like there should be slightly more logic at work.)


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:08 PM
horizontal rule
351

I esteem to Bave.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:10 PM
horizontal rule
352

348 can only be read as accompanied by apo playfully tickling will's belly button.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:11 PM
horizontal rule
353

Assuming that is bob's belief, we prove ourselves hypocrites by failing to afford him good faith.

What did you think of bob's repeated discussion of ari's 447 in the other thread? When bob repeatedly demanded that someone engage his silly argument, what did you think of his silence once I finally did in 11 above?

What did you think of his bringing it back up again here in 285, as though nothing had been said in the interim? And when I challenged him again, what did you think of his ongoing silence after that?

Good faith isn't something that's granted by other people. If you're going to argue that bob is acting in good faith, you actually have to be willing to discuss his actions. To insist on something while simultaneously saying you're not going to examine the evidence is, well, it's bad faith. Sorry.



Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:12 PM
horizontal rule
354

"enjoy to read" is an idiom error. There is no underlying principle, sorry.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:16 PM
horizontal rule
355

Now I think the list I linked gets some of them wrong. "Tried [x]ing" works as well as "tried to [x]", at least for me.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:19 PM
horizontal rule
356

354: Is "idiom error" a plausible word pairing for this? I thought if something was idiomatic, it wasn't an error. It was just nonstandard or something. Idiom error would be if you used an idiom incorrectly.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:23 PM
horizontal rule
357

353: Look, I am not stupid enough to try to defend everything bob says. I don't want to defend any of it. If bob argues in bad faith, then it's fine to point out that he's arguing in bad faith. By "afford him good faith," what I meant, and should have written, was that we should examine what he is saying and respond to it -- or ignore it, if it doesn't merit a response -- rather than just telling him to fuck off because he's bob.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:24 PM
horizontal rule
358

just telling him to fuck off because he's bob a troll


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:24 PM
horizontal rule
359

If I were a lurker, I would support text in email.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:26 PM
horizontal rule
360

Idiom error would be if you used an idiom incorrectly.

Which is what you have when you use an infinitive after a verb that idiomatically takes a participle. This is a category tested on the SAT these days.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:26 PM
horizontal rule
361

As long as the kids stay off my lawn, I guess they can learn what they want.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:30 PM
horizontal rule
362

357: You know, I've got a fair amount of sympathy with a lot of what you've been saying. But there's a point of bad faith at which it stops being worth the effort to sort through for bits of sincerity. I've seen the ToS say coherent, informative stuff on other blogs -- he's not just an insult machine, there's a person with thoughts in there. That doesn't mean I'm going to check each thing he posts here and let it through if it makes sense.

Bob over his full history has said some interesting stuff, mixed in with a fair amount of both what looks like sincere craziness and what looks like intentional trolling. Bob this weekend, I'm not seeing enough of anything of anything but venom and low-quality lawyering to make paying attention to him at all worthwhile.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:31 PM
horizontal rule
363

362: That's fair, and it's hardly consistent of me to just magically appear as the peacemaker, as I have been a dick on here before. But I am just so full of peace now!


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:37 PM
horizontal rule
364

Is that what they call it these days?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:42 PM
horizontal rule
365

I guess so. What would you like to call it?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:47 PM
horizontal rule
366

163: I was just thinking how much I miss Cala and Labs


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 6:58 PM
horizontal rule
367

366:
and Katherine


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 7:01 PM
horizontal rule
368

273

... but his craziness is fun and interesting ...

I would vote for sad and pathetic.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 7:34 PM
horizontal rule
369

A friend of mine went on a Bad Gay Internet Date and was told by the gentleman in question "I cherish antiquing." It could only have been worse if he had said "I cherish to antique." And I think Jackmormon is right, though if there are whole lists of words that take one or the other, I'm inclined to wonder how it came to be, just a little. Maybe it's more historical than idiomatic? Language of origin thing?


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 7:40 PM
horizontal rule
370

226: I do not possess such a list. There are some people I could e-mail, but I was thinking that I miss cerebrocrat who drifted away.

I don't know what happened to My Alter Ego. I miss JRoth quite a bit right now, but I know he didn't leave in a huff, and he may not really have drifted away. He could just be busy. I hope it means that he's got so much work that he's making money hand over fist.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 7:42 PM
horizontal rule
371

And I don't really think of myself as someone who was here back in the day. LizardBreath predates me, and B had been banned before I came by.

Maybe that was the silver age or the bronze age, but I wasn't here for the true golden age.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 7:45 PM
horizontal rule
372

I don't know if this is helpful to Bob or anyone else but he does identify as BPD, no? I may be wrong here, going with one of those overly subjective clinical intuitions, but instinctively I read the behavior of making a provocative statement then adjusting one's stated sincerity about it in order to steer between provocation and attempts to elicit sympathy a borderline thing. Maybe I am defining splitting really liberally, or just looking at regression under scrutiny as most markedly the province of those with borderline (as I do think of this as a regressed behavior.) I may just be wrong. For me there is something borderliney about the projective act of saying, in effect, "everyone is angry at me because X is being bad" too.

The upshot of this? Not sure. It's really clear that this bullshit about Blume is lousy behavior in the blogosphere or out, and I think Bob probably knows that, and it isn't helping him not do it. And it doesn't really help me excuse it, though I don't know about anyone else reading, supposing this is even a compelling way to look at it. I guess if I were the target I'd consider this and do my damnedest not to engage, because the whole problem of dealing with BPD is the induction you experience--the, uh, what-I-want-to-call ego-weakness of the person with BPD is like a tar baby, very difficult to extract yourself from once you're enmeshed.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 7:53 PM
horizontal rule
373

dsquared was mostly wrong about the read thing, though there were some harsh (though provoked) moments. I do wish that he were still here.

I kind of wonder whether he was just using that episode as an excuse to leave. I haven't seen him on the frontpage of crooked timber, and he wasn't putting that much up on dsquared digest. I don't read that many blogs. (Hell, I quit LG&M when they moved.) Is he out and about on the internet generally?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 7:56 PM
horizontal rule
374

Speaking of d-squareddigest, does it have two posters or is it just that dsquared uses more than one pseud in comments, or what?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 7:57 PM
horizontal rule
375

Oh, I think that's a really good insight. I'd forgotten about the BPD stuff, but keeping it in mind will be useful for me at least. I do feel guilty twinges occasionally for not engaging when bob's talking to me, but you're exactly right about why I've made that my policy.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 7:58 PM
horizontal rule
376

very difficult to extract yourself from once you're enmeshed.

Tar babies wearing macramé vests are the worst.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 7:58 PM
horizontal rule
377

374: I'm almost certain it is the latter.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 7:59 PM
horizontal rule
378

372: Right. Yes.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 7:59 PM
horizontal rule
379

rather than just telling him to fuck off because he's bob.

This seems perverse. In fact, it's the exact thing that bob keeps saying while refusing to offer any sensible evidence that this is so. Bob asks repeatedly: Why do we assume that ari is joking just because ari is joking, when we refuse to assume bob is joking just because bob is being serious?

It has always been universally understood that bob is permitted to behave in a fashion that would not be permitted for other people. The only conversation we've been having is why this is so, whether it ought to be so, and what are the appropriate limits of giving bob special treatment.

It's tough to have this conversation with you since you've already said straight up that you're not interested in examining the evidence. But I'd be curious for some evidence, if anyone has it, that bob has been treated roughly "because he's bob."


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 7:59 PM
horizontal rule
380

Writes more on d2 than he used to, regular at jamie kenny's place, seems to be active on ct threads. was sort of everywhere a couple of years ago, isn't anymore.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:00 PM
horizontal rule
381

bruschettaboy is daniel davies too. from aaro watch.


Posted by: David | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:01 PM
horizontal rule
382

Well, I've missed you, BG. How are you doing?


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:03 PM
horizontal rule
383

381: thanks, that's what I thought, but it seemed like a very strange thing to do.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:03 PM
horizontal rule
384

It's because he's sometimes logged in as bruschettaboy in blogspot I think. Aaro watch is anonymous. D2 stopped caring.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:06 PM
horizontal rule
385

But I'd be curious for some evidence, if anyone has it, that bob has been treated roughly "because he's bob."

Obviously I have a lot of problems with 372, but is the time in this whole fucking fight that anyone has said that I might actually believe what I am saying.

Everyone else, for two fucking days, has assumed I was insincere and arguing in "bad faith"

There is two days of "evidence" Thousands of comments


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:07 PM
horizontal rule
386

And what do I believe? I have accused no one of any acts. What did I say?

I have actually said that Sifu can be abusive, and asked that whoever might know them might watch out for Blume.

282:sifu to text

you stupid worthless fuck. Now you're informed, you loser fucking jackass, and you can shut the fuck up for another eight months and we'll all be the better for

sifu has done stuff like that every fucking day for years, and far from only to me.

If someone yelled that in your house at a party, you would have absolutely no concerns?

You people are amazing. This how women get hurt.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:13 PM
horizontal rule
387

I was just thinking how much I miss

I've been here for so long that that list is a very long one indeed. But recently, SomeCallMeTim.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:14 PM
horizontal rule
388

Man, things sure are quiet around here since bob quit Unfogged.


Posted by: emdash | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:15 PM
horizontal rule
389

381: Some explanation from a comment 2/3rds of the way down here. (And I certainly do not understand the whole context.)

It's a joke, for heaven's sake. There are three people who post using the name "bruschettaboy", which is a reference to Aaronovitch's famous "bruschetta orthodoxies" article. We do in fact quite like Decent Dave and have quite a friendly relationship with him. I don't think we've ever publicised AW and it would have remained an in-joke for a dozen mates if Aaro hadn't linked it
Although
On a note of internet etymology, I don't think that "bruschettaboy" can be correctly called a "sock puppet", as I have never (except by accident a couple of times) used the BB screen name in the same comments threads as my own, and have always immediately admitted it when I did.
From 2006, don't know that he sticks to the latter anymore.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:15 PM
horizontal rule
390

I have accused no one of any acts. [...] This how women get hurt.

Stop it, bob.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:16 PM
horizontal rule
391

Boo fucking hoo, bob. I've asked repeatedly: Were you being serious or not? Give me either answer, and I can show a bunch of comments demonstrating your intentional bad faith.

And this isn't some arbitrary issue that I've pulled out of thin air - this is the issue that you chose to berate us for repeatedly. Nobody else was dumb enough to take the troll bait, but I was.

So now that I've done so, your sudden refusal to discuss the issue is also unambiguous bad faith.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:16 PM
horizontal rule
392

Listing commenters of the past is making the bits I can remember of Lament For The Makers rattle through my head. Unfortunately, that's not much: mostly it's just Timor mortis conturbat me over and over. And the bit with Sir Mungo Lockheart.

I should go read the poem if I'm going to get stuck on it like this.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:19 PM
horizontal rule
393

But recently, SomeCallMeTim.

I thought of him after the NBA finals.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:20 PM
horizontal rule
394

379 - Not to pile on Knecht, this is what I was referring to:

every day that we treat him with anything better than derision proves him right.

I don't think Knecht's opinion is unique. Sometimes people bring up crazy things bob has said in the past in order to convince others to ignore him. And it's not stupid to think that way, but it's also not, in the long run, productive.

I don't know, I don't recommend that you all start taking TOS seriously - every time I see one of his comments I feel a little sick. I think Bob is different, and I think it's a difference in kind rather than degree. Then again, he's never called me a wife beater.

I think what's infuriating is not that we hold bob to a different standard than everyone else, but that he often doesn't try to live up to the standard that he applies to everyone else. I mean, nobody else tries the shit that bob tries, but if they did, we'd all be just as confused. Maybe that's the price we pay. Then again, I'm hardly ever here.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:20 PM
horizontal rule
395

392.last, 393.last: Nice meta, LB.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:21 PM
horizontal rule
396

But recently, SomeCallMeTim.

Yeah. He still shows up under that pseud elsewhere, but his absence has been a real loss. As others have noted, Cala and Katherine were also unique in their contribution.

bob, too, for that matter. It's a real shame what he's done here. I continue to think that we ought to make serious allowances for whatever problem he's got, but I also think there are limits.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:22 PM
horizontal rule
397

395 was before I read the last one.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:25 PM
horizontal rule
398

Doesn't matter, to you, if I was being serious or not.

Nor does it really matter to the point about ari

282:sifu to text

you stupid worthless fuck. Now you're informed, you loser fucking jackass, and you can shut the fuck up for another eight months and we'll all be the better for

Not does it matter whether that is "serious" or not, and that is what people don't get. When you hear that as a kid, or a woman, or as someone vulnerable, the following "I was only joking" makes it worse"

Serious about Sifu being an abusive personality, a serial abuser? You bet.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:26 PM
horizontal rule
399

Not that I'm *hurt* exactly...


Posted by: Most Missed ex-Commenter not Actually Mentioned in Anyone's List | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:26 PM
horizontal rule
400

I miss Austro. And me.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:27 PM
horizontal rule
401

367: Katherine is a real loss, but she was a lawyer and not a philosopher. We haven't heard from her since the move. She never came to a Boston meetup.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:29 PM
horizontal rule
402

395, 397: See? See the incoherence that results from well-intentioned clean-up?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:29 PM
horizontal rule
403

bob, I can deal with whatever anyone says to me. and you just can't go around alleging domestic abuse based on perceived aggression in a blog. and the way you did it looked, to me, like purely an attempt to provoke. you should apologize, read some more, and when you think of something else to comment on, do so, leaving this episode behind.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:29 PM
horizontal rule
404

SomeCallMeTim

Showed up in the DeLong thread on McMegan recently, which was nice.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:32 PM
horizontal rule
405

||

I wrote my first greasemonkey script!

|>


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:32 PM
horizontal rule
406

390:What can I do, apo?

I have intuitions, feelings, which are contemptuously dismissed, and thousands upon thousands of abusive sifu comments. Toward many people. I could find some in this thread.

You cannot prove the negative, and what, you had three drinks with the guy and he made you laugh? Do you know anything about the science? hilzoy had some posts. There's Wiki.

Sifu is not di kotimy. is not Megan, is not Thorn. This is not a gentle guy.

But that is what you are telling me.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:34 PM
horizontal rule
407

Bob, let me throw this out there for you: there are many, many people around here who have met Sifu and Blume *in person.* There are also, if I can be blunt, a huge majority of people whose sense of empathy (meaning able to model another's emotions/thought processes in their heads and *accurately* predict mood, etc.) is more closely tied to reality than your own. If none of us find it at all likely that Sifu is violent/rageful, perhaps you can take your own acknowledged difficulties into account and give us all the benefit of the doubt.

Seriously, dude. You're crazy. (There's no value judgment there. I'm crazy too. Medicated to the gills and highly functional, but crazy.) Take a deep breath, chalk it up to brain chemistry gone awry, apologize and come back another day.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:36 PM
horizontal rule
408

DW-- I'm okay. Busy. I spend a lot of time commuting to work and taking the bus doing outreach work with our MH clients. I'm hoping to comment more when my Verizon contract runs out, and I can get an iphone, because I'm on the bus so damn much and can't do my actual paperwork.

I need to go to bed, since I have to get up early.

I want to move into a policy field, because, boy, the system as it is now is crazy and dysfunctional,and I don't like just hunkering down and trying not to care.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:36 PM
horizontal rule
409

I miss SCMT too, though we never interacted much. He's been gone for a while.

baa left the instant that Labs was gone and was mostly gone once Ogged left. I liked the dynamic of their discussions.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:38 PM
horizontal rule
410

406: Wikipedia and science both say Sifu isn't gentle? Can't argue with science. Or Wikipedia.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:39 PM
horizontal rule
411

405: That reminds me. I forgot to add coolant to the old car.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:40 PM
horizontal rule
412

One thing I have learned, although I have known it for years, is that people really don't close read, or pay attention to the dynamics of blogs and comment threads.

People also remember what reinforces their existing prejudices.

and politics and popularity gets the weakest hurt the most. I am not talking about me.

What if I'm right?


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:40 PM
horizontal rule
413

This blog was better before McManus left, never to be heard from again.

Oh wait. Still the same old unfogged, apparently.

Bob, what text says in 403. Totally, crazily out of line of you to accuse someone of domestic violence based on your verbal altercations with that someone on a blog. Not that I think Sifu is blameless in terms of your exchanges with him, and I've said as much in the past: with you and Sifu, it is definitely a two-way street. But I don't think you're blameless either (though I agree you've been treated too roughly, overall), and you're really not helping your case here.

I miss Cala, Katherine, and Most Missed too.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:43 PM
horizontal rule
414

412.2 to 412.1 and 412.3.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:44 PM
horizontal rule
415

403: It's not just that bob made a baseless, nasty personal accusation against Sifu - that's really pretty ordinary for bob. The rest of us, including me, have always been tolerant of bob's abuse of S.T.

bob, however, has continued to engage in really ruthless bad faith on the subject. Serious trolling.

Almost all of us - again, including me - have accepted bob's bad faith in the past, but I think there are legitimate limits.

Nobody's banned bob, and I'll again say that I think nobody should. But I think the son of a bitch needs to go away.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:45 PM
horizontal rule
416

413.last: Oh, great.


Posted by: Next Most Missed ex-Commenter not Actually Mentioned in Anyone's List | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:45 PM
horizontal rule
417

THE NEIGHBORS TELL ME THAT GRANDMA'S MAILBOX IS OVERFLOWING AND NO ONE'S SEEN THE LIGHTS ON IN HER HOUSE FOR DAYS. HAS ANYONE SEEN HER?


Posted by: OPINIONATED GRANDSON | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:48 PM
horizontal rule
418

Baleful bloggers boldly bitch 'bout banning bob because boneheaded blabbing blows.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:53 PM
horizontal rule
419

WAIT DOESN'T SHE LIVE NEAR SIFU TWEETY? DOOM!


Posted by: OPINIONATED NEIGHBOR | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:54 PM
horizontal rule
420

But banning bob before batshit behavior's bounds breached brings bum-outs, balefulness, blubbering.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:56 PM
horizontal rule
421

||
I don't know what it is like in other states, but here in MN, the dichotomy between what you have to do to get unemployment, versus what you have to do to get food stamps could not be more pronounced. Unemployment requires the worker to spend maybe 5 or 10 minutes filling out stuff on the state website. Food Stamps requires several paper forms, including information about EVERY SINGLE PAYCHECK received for the last EIGHTEEN MONTHS!!! And the previous and current employers for that period each have to sign off on it. It's so completely ridiculous. How much does it cost the government and private industry to process all those goddamn forms? Just to get a little bit of food stamps -- you know, those things that represent a mostly-unacknowledged subsidy to US agribusiness?
AGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!
||>


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:57 PM
horizontal rule
422

Chopper - I didn't know you were crazy! No wonder I like you.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:58 PM
horizontal rule
423

Totally, crazily out of line of you to accuse someone of domestic violence based on your verbal altercations with that someone on a blog.

bob has mastered a trick of many successful trolls. There are layers of assholishness here, Mary C., that you are failing to give their proper due.

Personally, I think it would be a bad thing to accuse someone of domestic violence based on verbal altercations on a blog, but I don't think that's completely beyond the pale. For example, it wouldn't surprise me if ToS spray-paints racial slurs on synagogues, and it doesn't embarrass me a bit to say so.

What's truly beyond the pale is making such accusations based on nothing whatsoever, and then trying to pretend that you didn't really say that in the first place, and then repeating that you did say it, and meant it. That's what bob has done here.

Are you seriously prepared to argue that there is some element of Sifu's commentary here that suggests violence toward women?

And I'd like to see you offer a single example of bob being treated harshly "because he's bob" rather than because he's behaved like an asshole. As I said to text, your view on this strikes me as perverse and completely unsupported by the facts.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 8:58 PM
horizontal rule
424

420: One more "b" than 418. You are aggressive.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:00 PM
horizontal rule
425

Boo!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:01 PM
horizontal rule
426

Hey, politicalfootball, I don't want to butt in, but maybe if you dropped it, it could be dropped.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:02 PM
horizontal rule
427

Parsi proffers poli-f polemics postpone posting positive post powwow peace pact.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:06 PM
horizontal rule
428

426: I'm not advocating that this be dropped, so I don't find your suggestion particularly helpful.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:08 PM
horizontal rule
429

If McManus has mental problems, I hope he gets better. My advice is to ban him. He's more disruptive than the troll of sorrow.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:10 PM
horizontal rule
430

Don't drop discourse during.... Fuck it. It's only fun when you can't get to a thesaurus.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:10 PM
horizontal rule
431

How about if I request that you drop it?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:10 PM
horizontal rule
432

Slamming Sifu suggests silencing sanity, subsequently shaming several similar stentorian supporters seeking specious salvation subverts serious settlement.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:12 PM
horizontal rule
433

The degree to which (the) British television (that I am exposed to) is better than American television (all of it, I think, except for The Wire and a few other shows here and there) really is quite extraordinary. No, this is not off-thread. Figure it out.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:18 PM
horizontal rule
434

Well, the US TV I'm exposed to is much better than the UK TV I'm exposed to. For what it's worth.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:21 PM
horizontal rule
435

For what it's worth.

Not much, I'd say. Someone please ban David.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:23 PM
horizontal rule
436

Canadian kiddie TV is the dullest thing since the farm report. They managed to broadcast the sensation of being in Ontario.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:28 PM
horizontal rule
437

Back in the day, commenters took the initiative and banned people themselves, all the time, without expecting posters to do it for them. You've all grown fat, lazy, and parasitic. Someday a real rain will come and wash all this scum off the streets.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:29 PM
horizontal rule
438

Any particular recommendations, ari?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:29 PM
horizontal rule
439

Figure it out.

Ah, c'mon, give us a hint. Some of us are not too quick on the uptake, after all. The Office? I've never watched the US version, admittedly, because I am certain the UK original cannot be beat. Also, my lifelong crush on Tim Canterbury cannot, or will not, tolerate an American interpretation. (Also: Ricky Gervais).


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:29 PM
horizontal rule
440

Oh, I almost forgot, I met a wild boar the other day.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:32 PM
horizontal rule
441

Canadian kiddie TV is the dullest thing since the farm report.

Canadian kiddie TV basically is the farm report. Or the pre-farm report, I guess.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:34 PM
horizontal rule
442

Maybe a better search than apo's.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:34 PM
horizontal rule
443

nosflow is banned.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:36 PM
horizontal rule
444

437: I'm deeply offended, Apo, at any imputation of fatness, laziness, or parasitic .. ness. Point taken, though.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:36 PM
horizontal rule
445

441: I meant that stuff that they show in the U.S., mostly on Sprout or Nick Jr. Which, to be fair, may be the cheapest Canada has to offer, not the best.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:37 PM
horizontal rule
446

Oh, I almost forgot, I met a wild boar the other day.

Was it radioactive?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:37 PM
horizontal rule
447

How about if I request that you drop it?

I'd certainly take such a request very seriously.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:45 PM
horizontal rule
448

Any particular recommendations, ari?

The new Sherlock Holmes show is really wonderful.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 9:49 PM
horizontal rule
449

I'm still reading the thread of doom - some good stuff. TLL, I have not appreciated you enough these years.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 10:50 PM
horizontal rule
450

bother. anyway, those lyrics were funny.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-12-10 10:52 PM
horizontal rule
451

We only get a pretty small selection of British TV here -- there's a large amount of dreck that's not exported. And I don't think anything British comes close to the top tier of recent US serial drama -- Sopranos, Wire, Mad Men, etc. And our comedy is getting better -- until recently, the American Office was at least arguably better than the British version (though they were very different kinds of shows) and Always Sunny in Philadelphia is great and very much has a low-budget BBC vibe.

That said, there's a lot of great stuff getting exported from Britain. Top Gear is incredibly well done and great. I've been enjoying the InBetweeners, which is a pretty great teen comedy.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 12:25 AM
horizontal rule
452

re: 451

British TV doesn't do the sort of long-format high-budget dramas you mention there: Sopranos, The Wire, etc. Usually serious drama runs to somewhere between 3 and 6 episodes, comedies to somewhere between maybe 6 and 12 in a series. I think it's probably true that very little British produced drama approaches the very best of the US stuff. I'm thinking particularly of the Wire, here, but also Mad Men and the Sopranos. However, there's still quite a lot of high-quality product produced. I'm thinking here of the output of writers like Paul Abbott, Andrew Davies [mostly historical adaptations these days], etc.

As it happens I generally prefer British comedy to US comedy -- with a very few exceptions -- so I'd still argue that's probably an area where British TV in general out-performs the US. There's consistently a LOT of good comedy on British TV and has been for decades.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 12:43 AM
horizontal rule
453

Is it time for the cock jokes yet?


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:09 AM
horizontal rule
454

It's around sunrise NY time, so sure.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 4:31 AM
horizontal rule
455

421: Yes, that sucks big time. You know, there are just hordes of non-poor people who would apply if we didn't make it so hard.

The U.S. Department of Education has it down. They talk to the IRS, with your permission, to figure out what income-based rate you should pay. You have to show paychecks the first time. After that they just rely on your tax return for 5 years. If you lose your job or your paycheck goes down significantly, you can submit alternate documentation.

The one that gets me is the number of food pantries which require people to provide income verification. They have scarce resources, and they have pre-signups and stuff, but if you're really hungry and need to go to a food pantry while your food stamp application gets processed, should you really have to get all of your papers in order first?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 4:39 AM
horizontal rule
456

Christ, did McManus ever do a number on this thread.

You realize if you'd just turn this place over to the benign overlordship of the Afro-Canadian Liberation Front, you wouldn't have problems like this.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 1:18 PM
horizontal rule
457

Yeah, drove us all to a pathetic, terrorized discussion of British TV. I hate when the blog gets like that.

(I'm a little worried that my mental age is regressing -- I've been watching Dr. Who and finding it right at about the level I can handle after a full workday. Given that I can recognize that it's objectively written for pre-teens, this concerns me a bit.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 1:32 PM
horizontal rule
458

We have a lot of candidates for overlordship, and all are so far rejected. One mustn't let one's personal tastes dictate policy.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 1:34 PM
horizontal rule
459

456, 457: still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, I tell you what. Even without knowing exactly what was written.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 1:50 PM
horizontal rule
460

I can't find the comment, but I do recall, DS, that you were rejected for overlordship by none other than ogged himself, on account of excessive reasonableness.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 1:57 PM
horizontal rule
461

459: (TBH, the Afro-Canadian overlords would be mystified at the existence of a big debate about whether accusations of domestic abuse are ban-worthy. That BitchPhd was actually banned for a time from this blog but McManus has yet to be is a bit of cosmic weirdness like that whole year where 36 Mafia had an Oscar but Martin Scorsese didn't.)

460: I know! How could a Hidden Imam be so wrong? Shook my faith, that did.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:30 PM
horizontal rule
462

But B's being banned was unjust.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:32 PM
horizontal rule
463

461.1: (Dude, sweetheart, just to be clear, McManus got the crazy exemption. You see.)


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:33 PM
horizontal rule
464

Look, everyone should just ask some friends to check their spouse/significant other for bruise marks. The single people should check themselves for bruise marks. Then we can all report back, and we can have this discussion based on FACT, not innuendo.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:34 PM
horizontal rule
465

462: All the more reason for a just banning to even things out!

463: Oh, I know. It's just I wouldn't have one of those.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:36 PM
horizontal rule
466

TOP GEAR???? Halford is so fucking banned. And The Office is definitely better than the US version - much as I do very much love the US version, it has never made me cry.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:36 PM
horizontal rule
467

464: A blogwide Russian Baths meetup would serve the same purpose, no?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:37 PM
horizontal rule
468

I fucking love Top Gear. I'm actually worried it's making me more politically conservative -- it's already made me spend more money than I probably would have otherwise on a car.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:37 PM
horizontal rule
469

467 -- Only if we brought significant others to the baths.

And it's not much of an issue for me, since I've already seen everyone's wife and/or girlfriend naked.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:40 PM
horizontal rule
470

I am really sore today and wishing I was in NYC so I could go to the Russian Baths.

Also, this weekend, I discovered that I really, really should have Body Glided some additional body parts.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:41 PM
horizontal rule
471

So you're saying we need to inspect you for abrasions, now? This is going to turn into a full time process.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:42 PM
horizontal rule
472

467: That trick won't work on those of us who've seen Eastern Promises, I'll have you know.

468: The Top Gear where they drove to the North Pole was pretty good.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:43 PM
horizontal rule
473

those of us who've seen Eastern Promises

Yummy.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:46 PM
horizontal rule
474

I'm not going to stop you from inspecting, LB. But I know exactly where they are. Ive been walking very gingerly today.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:46 PM
horizontal rule
475

468 - seriously Halford, if you're that suggestible, please stop watching Clarkson.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:48 PM
horizontal rule
476

469.2: He .. Het .. Heteronormativist!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:49 PM
horizontal rule
477

I have that damned card for the Baths that means I can only go when Boris is working or I'll continue to feel stupid about buying the thing and perhaps sit in a corner and bruise myself.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:52 PM
horizontal rule
478

476: It's worse than that: straight-man-and-lesbonormativist.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:52 PM
horizontal rule
479

And I'd like to see you offer a single example of bob being treated harshly "because he's bob" rather than because he's behaved like an asshole.

To be fair, sometimes people treat him harshly after he makes what would not be a particularly outlandish statement out of context, just because we remember him expressing virtually the exact opposite sentiment in the same apocalyptic tone a few days earlier. I can get pretty infuriated by people who do that.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:56 PM
horizontal rule
480

Who would Jesus bruise?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:57 PM
horizontal rule
481

478: You're right. Wow, Halford really has been watching too much Top Gear. (Which, by the way, I've never heard of.)


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:58 PM
horizontal rule
482

370: I don't know what happened to My Alter Ego.

My mojo broke, and the insurance wouldn't cover the repairs, so I've been saving up for a new one.

That, and a more hectic schedule at work.


Posted by: MAE | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 2:58 PM
horizontal rule
483

A hectic bruising schedule at work.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:01 PM
horizontal rule
484

No bruises, but about 20 mosquito bites. I forgot to shut the window screen after the cat, and the mosquitoes, recognizing a rare opportunity, attacked en masse. Even after all the hating I have plenty of hate left over for mosquitoes.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:03 PM
horizontal rule
485

On the subject of British TV shows I can tell you, after spending 7 days in British hotels, that there does not seem to be a single good show on British TV other than the news. Maybe the good shows are all on the British equivalent of HBO and Showtime, only seen by an elite few. What I saw was the news, and show after show of comedians sitting around a table making jokes, and reality shows just like ours. And prime-time broadcasts of the kind of movies that get dumped at 4 AM on American TV, in particular this and this.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:06 PM
horizontal rule
486

483: Indeed, business at the dungeon has actually increased since the recession started.


Posted by: MAE | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:07 PM
horizontal rule
487

feel stupid about buying the thing and perhaps sit in a corner and bruise myself.

This is when you need to have them beat you with the birch branches.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:10 PM
horizontal rule
488

The Botswana Top Gear was great. The newest ones shown in the US (drive cars around a track, complain about them) is a depressing contrast.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:11 PM
horizontal rule
489

Even after all the hating I have plenty of hate left over for mosquitoes

Aw, but we *love* you, mcmc. (Namely the blood part of you, but still. Love's love.)


Posted by: Charles River Mosquito Squadron | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:20 PM
horizontal rule
490

|| I'd try to rise to the challenge posed by will -- maybe it was in the other thread -- but I'm too pissed off to insult anyone. Filling out an SF86: list all contacts over the past 7 years with foreigners to whom I or wife are bound by affection, influence, and/or obligation.|>


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:23 PM
horizontal rule
491

mcmc: How can that be!??! Isnt it snowing there already?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:23 PM
horizontal rule
492

490: Sweet jesus, that sounds like a pain in the ass. And a quintuple pain for someone with your particular life.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:25 PM
horizontal rule
493

Speaking of pissed off, has anyone else seen that crazy website Citizen warrior with its "3 things you should know about Islam"?

Any good rebuttals?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:26 PM
horizontal rule
494

Carp:

Are you going to rat out Unfogged? Can you simply list the website?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:27 PM
horizontal rule
495

I already had to give them my in-laws' address (along with siblings, parents, and kids). I hope the FBI tries to interview my mother-in-law.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:27 PM
horizontal rule
496

Don't forget DS, MC, ttaM, asilon, ajay, Alex, Keir, tierce, etc.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:29 PM
horizontal rule
497

Will, I nearly listed you in item 16, but it seemed over the top. No one here is a foreigner, right? No one I like, anyway . . .


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:29 PM
horizontal rule
498

CC: You should tell them you listened to Foreigner within the last seven years. If nothing else, they'll think you're playing "Head Games" with them.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:32 PM
horizontal rule
499

(496 -- and read, D2, and wasn't there a Kiwi with a pseud starting with W . . . have to go back 7 years. Dear FBI: RTFA. Yours affectionately, CC)


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:34 PM
horizontal rule
500

No one I like, anyway . . .

That's the key. Just present yourself as a stone-hearted bastard with no bonds of affection or obligation to anyone.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:34 PM
horizontal rule
501

(496 -- and read, D2, and wasn't there a Kiwi with a pseud starting with W . . . have to go back 7 years. Dear FBI: RTFA. Yours affectionately, CC)


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:34 PM
horizontal rule
502

493: Just the usual Islamophobic buillshit. There's probably a short-form online rebuttal somewhere, perhaps through Islamophobia Watch? If there isn't, there needs to be...

497: Irritation counts as a form of influence, albeit negative, doesn't it?


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 3:39 PM
horizontal rule
503

490, 492: When I was doing my security clearance forms for a job a couple years after college, I had to list all my residences for the last 7 years, which led to some flailing around in a desperate attempt to figure out what my sophomore dorm room had been.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 4:23 PM
horizontal rule
504

I am routinely covered in hidden and not so hidden bruises. I rarely recall how I got them, but they typically match up quite well with table corners, counters, doorknobs. I am also currently covered in mosquito bites (several of which have begun to look like bruises) and feeling very irritable about the itching part.

Also Charley, don't forget UNG is a foreigner.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 8:17 PM
horizontal rule
505

I have a mosquito bite on my forehead. Hate!


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 8:20 PM
horizontal rule
506

I had one of those! Crazy. Looked like a tilak. But then it went away very quickly and I missed it.

On the subject of people we missed, did anybody explicitly miss I Don't Pay? I miss that entity. If only because I could never quite figure it out. Was he/she crime, personified? Or a very stingy person?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 10:05 PM
horizontal rule
507

The thing that's worse than a mosquito is a deer fly. Those creatures are vicious.

I also miss JRoth. Does he have a blog?

(And I'm also going to stubbornly insist on missing McManus, if he's really left never to return).


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 10:11 PM
horizontal rule
508

I'll keep missing him too.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 10:49 PM
horizontal rule
509

I also miss Tia. In Mad Men there is now a coterie of young idiots in the creative department of the new firm, and when I think of how I reacted to the "hey stop being assholes" type comments Tia and others sometimes made, I put myself in mind of those idiots. Because I'm a feminist. And there was that game she had, which was fun.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 11:48 PM
horizontal rule
510

Look, everyone should just ask some friends to check their spouse/significant other for bruise marks.

Btock style bitches! Any good vibes here? Let me kill those for you.

You know what's not so fun? Going on calls where you have to check little kids for bruises.

Thankfully, no bruises last time I did that (a couple days back). Sometimes, ex gang member dad with multiple warrants living in the homeless shelter with the kids is the "good" option. Mom got banned from the shelter for being violent and in in a motel somewhere getting high. Sidenote to shelter worker who called us because she "suspects" he's mistreating those kids. Godamnit, I know you may not like the guy, but he at least seems to be interested in caring for the kids. He's in a small room in a homeless shelter with three small children. Of course you might hear him yell at the kids from time to time. Hearing a kid cry and him yell does not equal "OMG I think he's beating the kids".

Later that afternoon I chased a heroin addict for over a block who decided to run away while still in handcuffs (my buddy turned his back on her and she took off). My casual observation of "thank god there's no kids" was met with, "I have two. One is living with my parents and one is living with the dad's parents."

In summation, the answer is yes, we should be handing out birth control like it's Pez.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 11:53 PM
horizontal rule
511

When people don't comment for a while I try to think happy thoughts like they're too busy with family and work.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 09-13-10 11:56 PM
horizontal rule
512

511: I'm writing a country song. For real.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-14-10 12:10 AM
horizontal rule
513

Or doing an important job that has a real, immediate impact, apparently. I don't know if you've been here or not lately, but I also miss you, gswift. I'm not really very drunk.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-14-10 12:11 AM
horizontal rule
514

Text, you're going to make me all weepy.

I still read threads but comment more on days off. Old job at E/bay meant much higher comment volume. Fast internet connection along with boredom.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 09-14-10 12:18 AM
horizontal rule
515

It's early in the morning here, so I am post-shower but pre-coffee.

I've always got bruises, although usually just on the shins and forearms; sometimes the bruises have identifiable treadmarks. "Oh yeah, Adidas ...." Last few weeks I've also had a weal that looks like a burn, because someone [who should have known better] wore running shoes to class and they have sharp edges.

I really don't bruise easily, though. Walking into furniture doesn't usually leave bruises, thankfully, otherwise I'd be covered. There's a couple of door handles I seem unable, despite several previous incidents, to avoid crashing into.

re: 510

My mother is a social worker [although mostly psych rather than children and families these days], and yeah, a lot of the stories make one think unhealthy thoughts about who should and shouldn't be allowed to have kids. It must suck to be in a position to have to make decisions that can impact upon that.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-14-10 12:28 AM
horizontal rule
516

When people don't comment for a while, I like to think they're running away from gswift in handcuffs.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09-14-10 12:53 AM
horizontal rule
517

That was kind of funny chase. I went to the apartment to back a guy who got a tip that she was living there with a boyfriend (both had felony warrants). She answers the door and gets cuffed by the other guy. Supposedly boyfriend is in the apartment. No answer when we call out for him to come out. Apartment has a hallway with a bathroom and a bedroom off of it. Other guy sits her down on the floor and is keeping an eye on the hallway while I go clear the bedroom and then we check the bathroom. All of a sudden I hear my buddy say "Fuck, where is she at?".

We go running down to the front of the complex and she's nowhere in sight. A neighbor points down the street and we take off. We get to the corner and look both ways, still not in sight. I'm kind of simultaneously pissed off but trying not to laugh, because she's not wearing my cuffs and I wasn't the one watching her. Another person out in a yard points south and we start looking. I find her pretty quick trying to hide behind a garage. Her response to "all right, no more nonsense, let's go back to the car" is to turn and take off running again.

She made it about another twenty yards before I caught up and knocked her down. Which is kind of a pain in the ass because now we've got to wait around for crime lab to photograph her abrasions (I've never taken a fall while my hands were tied behind my back, but it sure looked unpleasant).


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 09-14-10 1:24 AM
horizontal rule
518

God, you or your partner must really be ugly.


Posted by: Earnest O'Nest | Link to this comment | 09-14-10 1:51 AM
horizontal rule
519

Mrs y bruises if somebody looks at her hard. I say, "Jesus you've got a bruise the size of a football on your leg. What happened?" And she says, "Have I? No idea." It was worrying at first, but I've got used to it.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 09-14-10 2:55 AM
horizontal rule