Re: Icy-Hot would probably work but I don't have any.

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I find warmth works when I have a cricked neck. Massage with some diclofenac gel, and then wrap up with a nice warm scarf.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:20 AM
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Muscle relaxants. But, of course, they can interfere with anything you had planned for the day.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:23 AM
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Good grief that story is horrifying.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:24 AM
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Muscle relaxants really do work wonders, but relegate one (well, me) to the couch, and hg maybe doesn't want to take those right now.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:25 AM
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What should I do?

I guess seeking out your advisor is out?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:25 AM
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2.last to 4.

We met for the whole hour, as usual.

Your advisor apparently gets migraines of a very different nature than the ones I get. "Yes, we can still meet, but the room will need to be completely dark and I may throw up at any moment. Also, please don't talk above a murmur."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:27 AM
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You might try these for short-term relief.

Also, assuming (as seems likely) that you spend a lot of time on a computer, take a look at the ergonomics of your workstation. I don't have an online cite for that (everything I have is in hard copy) but it ought to be possible to Google.

I've been seeing a physical therapist for neck and related back issues for a couple of months and as far as I can tell it the cause of the issues was bad ergonomics plus a lot of time at my computer or else reading.

Massage won't really help in the long-term -- as you say -- if you don't do something to fix the underlying problem. In my case a set of fairly simple exercises plus raising my desk height plus raising my monitor height further above that had noticeable positive effects over the course of a couple of weeks.


Posted by: widget | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:28 AM
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I get apo's kind of migraines too. Heating pad? Ibuprofin? Just being miserable until the pain goes away on its own or is replaced by worse pain elsewhere is usually my response, but don't be like me.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:29 AM
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I think people play fast and loose with the word migraine. I had a (whiny, obnoxious) colleague who claimed she'd have migraines for months on end, without break. She'd really sort of argue it, too, if you picked at her story, and why the hell isn't she in the ER if this is the case?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:30 AM
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Neck exercises are good. I have a whole set that a physio gave me to do [I have some minor neck/back issues that are partly work] and they definitely help.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:32 AM
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And yes, those sorts of 'migraines' are a lot like the 'flu' that some people get.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:33 AM
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Most people's definition of "migraine" is "the worst headache I've ever had", in my experience.

The proper response to your advisor: "Who needs a big bear hug?"


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:33 AM
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Also, assuming (as seems likely) that you spend a lot of time on a computer, take a look at the ergonomics of your workstation.

I always assume it's something from how I slept the previous night, since I always notice them first thing in the morning. This may be a fallacy though - maybe it happens during the day and just takes time to set it.

But this was a Sunday night, so it would have had to be a weekend thing.

Also - luckily - I don't get them very often. So while my work set-up is truly terrible, ergonomically, I'm not actually doing computer work for long stretches at a time.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:34 AM
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migraines for months on end, without break

Heh. That's not a migraine. That's a head injury.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:38 AM
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9: And in fact the "migraine" condition itself can be quite variable. I had a period in adolescence when I got pretty classic syndromes: aura->pain/nausea/light sensitivity/must lay down->washed-out feeling during recovery and it followed a very specific schedule. Nothing for 20+ years but now on occasion I get very mild ones: bad auras (sometimes can trace it to being dazzled by bright lights) followed by discomfort/sorta nausea and ultimately a washed-out/hungover feeling but no real pain (thank God). I'd bet good money that the mechanisms are the same but the manifestation is different and maybe I should call it something different. Continual for several months is surely a different kind of thing.

A co-worker suffers from Cluster headaches, about which I knew nothing and wish I still didn't.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:45 AM
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This is the same woman who cried for months when she found out her second child would be born with a cleft lip. I made fun of her online and then got torn a new one by everyone saying how mean I was being. Somehow I never thought to clarify how annoying she was in every possible way - not stopping at gas stations with shifty-looking people, insane accusations of her students cheating, etc.

On the other hand, I still think she was overreacting to the cleft-lip thing, but I would be waaaay more sympathetic to someone that I basically liked.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:46 AM
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16: she's just acting that way to get ahead at work.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:47 AM
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Yes, (the right kind of) massage actually works. My physical therapist measured the range of movement in my shoulders and neck before and after our sessions, and the difference was dramatic. PT massage isn't what you'd call "gentle" or "soothing", though.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:48 AM
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Actually!, Her husband had lost his job and so was a SAHD. Then he got a job and now she stays at home, which is what she wanted to do all along.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:49 AM
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I don't understand why a cleft lip would be something to sob over. As I understand it, the condition comes in two forms, With Insurance and Without Insurance. A cleft lip with insurance requires fancy re-constructive surgery, which is scary for the baby, but they come out fine.

For cleft lip without insurance, first they extract your wallet, then you go on Medicaid and get the cleft lip with insurance treatment.

Am I missing something?


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:54 AM
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20: Maybe I'm missing something -- certainly sounds like something worth sobbing over if you don't have insurance.

And for those who have insurance -- well, I've certainly seen people sob over sillier things.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:58 AM
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Am I missing something?

Yes, a thread from about four years ago where you'd get reamed a new one for being such a heartless asshole, you heartless asshole.

That was pretty much how I saw it. And I was totally okay that surgery on a newborn would be really scary. But she was seven months pregnant or so and saying "I've known for a couple months but I just can't talk about it without breaking down and sobbing." And no qualifying remarks about how the tears come easy when you're full of pregnancy hormones. She was definitely saying that this was the worst fucking thing that had ever happened. Besides black people being at her gas station.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:59 AM
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Also she had insurance.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:59 AM
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I don't understand why a cleft lip would be something to sob over.

My boss (who occasionally reads here) was born with a cleft palate, as was one of his kids. It often requires multiple surgeries and extensive physical therapy, both of which are painful and traumatizing for a small child, as well as years of speech therapy. And, of course, even after fancy reconstructive surgery, you still look different, which isn't that big a deal for adults but can be rough sailing for kids.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:01 AM
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But in the old thread, I definitely tried to make my case without saying what a ridiculous person she was in general, or stating things sufficiently explicitly.

Basically I did the adult equivalent of the kid talking on the phone who says that the fish was THIS big! Why doesn't everyone already know how annoying she is?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:03 AM
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24: There's also the fact that strangers who bend over your stroller to coo will often instead recoil in horror. I suppose folks like to think that this sort of stuff wouldn't bother them, but it must be really heavy weather.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:04 AM
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24: Sure, but you've mentioned in passing some congenital stuff that Noah was born with, without leaving any of us to believe that it's the worst fucking thing that's ever happened to any of us.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:05 AM
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I was once at a big group dinner towards the end of which I started to feel woozy and achy, particularly in the neck. At the insistence of my then girlfriend, her chiropractor friend, who was also in attendance, "adjusted" my neck in a swift and semi-violent manner. I then felt even more dizzy, so then-girlfriend drove me home where I promptly plopped into bed, slept like a log, and woke up feeling great.

I subsequently decided that all the bad things people say about chiropractors are probably correct and that I'd had some bad artichokes or something.

What I'm saying, heebie, is: steer clear of chiropractors and bad artichokes. That's my advice.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:06 AM
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E.g., after her recent surgery, my boss's daughter had to have her arms immobilized for an extended period while it healed to keep her from pulling out stitches, etc. So imagine having to put pseudo-casts on both your baby's arms after putting her through a surgical ordeal she couldn't possibly understand and during a painful post-surgical period. It's a treatable condition, but it's still a pretty big deal. Essentially, you're going to be torturing your baby and unable to make it understand why.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:06 AM
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24: I apologize, then, for making light of a situation which is quite difficult for some people.

I also understand that a cleft lip or a cleft palette can be a death sentence in a third world situation where you don't have access to surgery. So I suppose we in the first world should be grateful for what we have.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:07 AM
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I always assume it's something from how I slept the previous night, since I always notice them first thing in the morning.

I get a terrible crick in my neck sometimes from sleeping on my side without high enough pillows under my head. I notice it first thing in the morning, and it really is quite painful. Advil + massaging the affected muscles very hard helps. It's usually in the side of my neck and upper shoulder, so I can reach the muscles myself.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:07 AM
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There's also the fact that strangers who bend over your stroller to coo will often instead recoil in horror.

This says in a very compassionate way what seemed to be the heart of the matter for her. I mean, the surgeries do sound awful, too.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:07 AM
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Also, in her defense, when the kid was born and had the surgeries, and had tiny braces on his arm to prevent him from touching his face, and couldn't nurse, and on and on, she rose to the challenge magnificently. She was pretty matter-of-fact and loving and mature about the whole thing when it came to pass.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:08 AM
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I'm very similar to JP Stormcrow. As a kid I had pretty classic migraines, then I went through puberty and stopped having them, sometime in my 20s I developed milder migraines that unfortunately last longer. A neurologist said they're migraines so I believe him.

The point is that the difference between a migraine and a tension headache is that their underlying physiology is different, not that migraines are inherently worse. (Though the extremes for migraines do seem to be much much worse than the extremes for tension headaches.)

I just had a mild migraine for 2 days. I had some pain down one side of my body (the side actually switched from one day to the next) felt slightly nauseous, was somewhat sensitive to loud noises, touch, and bright lights. It wouldn't have stopped me from going to a meeting with a student, but it would have stopped me from going to a party.

Two years ago I had a migraine for a month, that sucked even though the actual symptoms are nowhere near as bad as they were when I was a kid.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:09 AM
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Off to teach! Still think she overreacted!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:10 AM
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27: Oh, it doesn't mean that your colleague isn't a supremely annoying drama queen. Noah's stuff is just very minor cerebral palsy and sufficiently minor that almost nobody would ever notice without it being pointed out. His physical therapy all seems like play to him. When I see some of the other kids at the hospital in for PT, I want to cry at my relative good fortune.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:11 AM
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I am reminded of Fried Green Tomatoes, where the kid gets his arm ripped off by a train, and so they call him Stump, just so he knows it's nothing to be ashamed of. In this case, I imagined Annoyed Parent of Cleft-Palate Kid shouting BOO! at recoiling stranger, and then sharing a laugh with the kid.

Maybe this is optimistic.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:12 AM
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I got the most astonishing crick in my back recently; it came on suddenly, and was like this total seizing pain that impeded my ability to think coherently about anything else. Unfortunately, it came on right before we were supposed to go to our fancy anniversary dinner, meaning I spent most of the night more focused on sitting in just the exact right position that would minimize the pain instead of paying attention to the incredibly awesome food, company, time etc. The fact that it was still a really fun night is a testament to how good the food and company actually were, but man. What was that about?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:13 AM
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38: Punishment, you clueless dick.


Posted by: God | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:16 AM
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39: Yahweh's smitin' brah-ways.


Posted by: A Guest | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:20 AM
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Are there cultural differences here with how to express anxiety at misfortunes in newborns?

A fairly standard response I've seen is for people to put on a brave face and then project that brave face onto the child. Physical therapy is hard, but the kids a fighter, and we are all with her and we will get through this.

That pose seems very health to me, but it may not work for everyone or even be a part of their cultural repertoire.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:21 AM
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To reiterate Josh in 18, there's massage and then there's massage. I've started seeing a massage therapist (who also has some other certifications), and there is nothing soothing about the sessions. But my back felt infinitely better after the first time and she's good at diagnosing causes and giving specific advice on avoiding/mitigating it in the future.

And she plays normal music! And we talk about books and teaching critical thinking and other interesting stuff!

(heebs, she's in Austin, obvs., so let me know if you want her contact info.)


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:22 AM
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Also, does a newborn have enough sense of agency to blame a nurse or a caregiver for binding their arms? My impression is that the inner life of newborns consists mostly of "Something is wrong, I want my mommy," "things are good, I have my mommy," and "ooh look something shiny."


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:24 AM
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It's usually in the side of my neck and upper shoulder, so I can reach the muscles myself.

A tennis ball is quite useful when one can't reach the right spot. Stand against a wall, put the tennis ball between wall and shoulder/back, and move your shoulder/back to roll the tennis ball around.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:26 AM
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I have to say, I still don't think misery over the prospect of dealing with all that, in advance, is a crazy overreaction, though I have no doubt the colleague in question is a pain in the ass anyhow. But "overreacted" seems like a rather heartless (hi!!!) dismissal of something that, really, I think lots of people would be heartsick over, particularly in anticipation.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:28 AM
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I sometimes wake up unable to use a limb. But that hasn't happened in a while. The worst was a few months ago when I had that weird ankle thing. My ankle started off a little sore and weak, and then it progressed over the course of a few days to the point that, even with no pressure on it at all, I was in the worst screaming crying pain of my life, for hours. I had to cancel classes. It sucked. It got better on its own after a few days, and the truly excruciating part was just about 12 hours.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:29 AM
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A fairly standard response I've seen is for people to put on a brave face and then project that brave face onto the child. Physical therapy is hard, but the kids a fighter, and we are all with her and we will get through this.

Of course, but I think that's probably part of why I'd expect plenty of people to be actually more distraught about it in advance, when the kid isn't actually there to model your stoic behavior for.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:30 AM
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the truly excruciating part was just about 12 hours

Horrible.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:33 AM
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Ooh, is this the thread where we complain about our failing bodies? Sciatica, even the mild kind, sucks. It seems to be exacerbated by certain positions but I don't get any feedback until much later, when the damage has been done.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:34 AM
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And, yes, by the way, I do know I'm an overprivileged shit because I can afford massages and AWB is working fulltime with crappy (or no?) health insurance.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:35 AM
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"Yes, we can still meet, but the room will need to be completely dark and I may throw up at any moment. Also, please don't talk above a murmur."

"Plus, I need to keep my hands warm. Would you mind squeezing them between your thighs?"

I'm very similar to JP Stormcrow. As a kid I had pretty classic migraines, then I went through puberty and stopped having them, sometime in my 20s I developed milder migraines that unfortunately last longer.

I used to have Migraine Classic® a lot, but now they tend to be like this, and massage can genuinely give some relief. Sometimes the pain is bad enough that I would think about asking a relative stranger for that, but I'm sufficiently cautious/repressed/aware of personal space that I've never done so.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:37 AM
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I just want to be sure I'm not the only one chanting the following on repeat as the day's inner monologue:

Diclofenac?
Wyatt Cenac!
Diclofenac?
Wyatt Cenac!

I'm not the only one, right? Right, guys?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:43 AM
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Speaking of annoying colleagues, I am very tempted to start responding to my department's listserv with a "Thank you so much for generously sharing this information with everyone in the department!" every time I get one of these emails from an individual prof to another individual prof. Good God, like 10 a day from these people. "Dear Bob, I sent in the form you requested! Thank you!" "Dear Julie, I can't find the link for the security office on the website. Help!" and on and on.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:51 AM
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Meloxicam has been recommended to replace use of diclofenac, due to side effects in humans and toxicity in livestock eaten by vultures.
I occasionally use diclofenac, but, out of consideration for any potential scavengers (perhaps vultures, but more likely my cats) of my corpse, maybe I'll stop.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:51 AM
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53: Instead, write a note and pin it to the department office bulletin board or something. See if you can get somebody to put it on Passive Aggressive Notes.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 11:26 AM
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On topic: In my adult life, I have had some half-dozen days when I woke-up unable to rotate my neck without pain. I've always assumed this was related to how I slept and pain medication never worked. The biggest problem was reversing the car because I sort of feel obligated to look behind me first.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 11:29 AM
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53: Whereas I'm having the opposite problem: trying to organize a couple of workshops, for which people keep replying to only one of the organizers instead of the whole group, so we all keep having to forward things to each other and it keeps happening that some of us know important things and others don't. I keep wanting to remind people that "Reply All" exists.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 11:29 AM
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Go for the message, maybe they'll bend you like Beckham. (Basically a stupid story about an innocent visit, but I did like, She added: 'I was standing on his back and we did a lot of stretches.')


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 11:32 AM
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Actually, my wife is quite happy with the rather serious masseuse she sees on occasion. Plus she lent us this fabulous book one time (Frank Netter's Atlas of Human Anatomy).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 11:35 AM
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I am quite good at doing massage. I'm not as good or strong as a pro, but I learned quite a bit about sequencing of movements and why and how. Sadly, I learned all of this from a very good instructional video in which everyone was, for no apparent reason, completely naked and with a semi-erection.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 11:38 AM
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Demand that the masseuse release your second chakra!


Posted by: Al Gore | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 11:39 AM
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everyone was, for no apparent reason, completely naked and with a semi-erection.

Even the women?!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 11:39 AM
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60: If you looked on the internet, you could probably find one where everybody has a proper erection.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 11:39 AM
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It wasn't a video with ladies in it. I couldn't figure out precisely who the audience was supposed to be, as the instruction itself was extremely useful and detailed, even as the camera lingered a rather long time on the inner thigh, lower stomach, and gluteal massage portions. There was no happy ending, just massage.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 11:42 AM
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Closeted dudes? The informational content was the equivalent of the (I understand often genuinely excellent) articles in Playboy?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 11:51 AM
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57: Sympathies. I'm currently privy to a seemingly never-ending multi-party exchange via reply-all Facebook messages, trying to organize four bands and a club owner for a show on Thanksgiving weekend. Add to the fun: multiple people involved play in several different bands, some of which are and some of which are not playing the event, a detail the club owner seems to have a hard time keeping straight. And so far no one has heeded my repeated calls to please move the conversation to email, FFS.

My own personal communication hell, let me show you it.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 11:54 AM
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This seems like the right place to bitch about how I've hurt my leg and it will not heal.

Like an idiot, I assumed that running would make me feel better, not make me hobble around in pain.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 12:06 PM
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67.2: I had been having occasionally relatively severe knee pain, but hadn't been running very much (and when I had, I had been running with Blume, who has a somewhat different pace and rhythm of breaks than I do). Finally I got fed up with not running and went on my usual route, and I felt great. Hopefully I'm not making a terrible, terrible mistake.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 12:11 PM
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fed up with not running

I don't speak your crazy moon language. What does this mean?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 12:13 PM
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Hopefully I'm not making a terrible, terrible mistake.

Statistically speaking, you almost certainly are, but you'll never know if it is the running or something else until it is too late.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 12:14 PM
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68:

I'm somewhat depressed about it. I'm training for a marathon, but I couldnt run this weekend bc of the pain. I watched my training partner finish her 10 mile run, looking relaxed and fast. It ruined my day.

Well, until my daughter swam three entire lengths at the pool! Then, I was in a good mood again.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 12:17 PM
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68: If you want to avoid knee pain, glute exercises are the way to go. My PT recommended these to me.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 12:21 PM
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Yay, will's daughter! (Do we have an unfogged anonymous name for her? I don't recall one.)


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 12:21 PM
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I had been running with Blume, who has a somewhat different pace and rhythm of breaks is a lot slower and walks a lot more than I do.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 12:23 PM
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55 to 54.


Posted by: Rah | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 12:25 PM
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73:

Well, I call her Crazy Cat. She also went down a big slide twice. (She normally isnt brave enough to do it.)

As she went down, she very softly said "weee. weee." It was adorable.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 12:31 PM
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Very sweet.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 12:35 PM
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Oh, running news: with it getting darker sooner, I've found myself running more at dusk/early evening. Turns out: cars are as or more crazy around running people as they are around people on bikes! So I've been running with two bright-red, flashing LEDs, which is great for getting me made fun of by my roommates if I happen to catch them out for a smoke as I come trudging home all sweaty and blinky.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 12:37 PM
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78: I carry one of those little key chain lights for when I run after dusk. But, my run lets me avoid crossing any major street.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 12:47 PM
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72: Oh, the clamshells were the hardest exercise for me when I started physical therapy and I think they had a hugely positive impact because I tried so hard to practice them a lot. Now I'm supposed to use resistance bands with them, but I mostly don't.

And yay for Crazy Cat! I love will's kid stories. Really, I love kid stories from everyone I can think of here who tells them. Hmm.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 12:49 PM
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Still think she overreacted!

I remembered this while walking across campus: She kept comparing herself to the woman in our building who has two kids with cystic fibrosis. Because they're both dealing with birth defects.

So all of you jerks who are defending her can awkwardly back-pedal away now.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 1:01 PM
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81: That does make it sound like she was giving herself a little pity party. Gross.

On the topic of knee pain: will everyone here make fun of me if I recommend Five Fingers? They are FUN. They also double as a fantastic barometer of certain character traits, i.e., does New Person go, "oh, weird, what are those?" or do they recoil in fear because they instinctively believe the aggressively ugly geekitude of the shoes is likely to be contagious? Informative.

In my experience, f you slowly work up to it, they help a lot, and I have awful, deficient joints.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 1:34 PM
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On the topic of knee pain: will everyone here make fun of me if I recommend Five Fingers?

Yes, but don't let it get to you.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 1:36 PM
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I have awful, deficient joints

Surely, several members of the 'foggedariat can offer tips for rolling them better. Or is it more of a quality-of-raw-materials issue?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 1:37 PM
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84: No, I was pretty good at those. Not so functional afterwards, though. For, like, long periods of time.

Oh. Now I'm really, really nostalgic.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 1:43 PM
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I actually used to know the person responsible for dealing with customer email inquiries about FF, who would frequently get awesomely odd emails. When I got really bored at work I'd amuse myself by terrorizing her. Sometimes I'd recruit others to help.

Oh, more nostalgic!


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 1:46 PM
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So all of you jerks who are defending her can awkwardly back-pedal away now.

Well, now, that's gross. At last you have provided a truly damning detail. Congratulations!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 1:49 PM
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||

I don't know if HBGB or anyone else here teaches these courses, but I want to promote these far and wide.

My colleague in math and a friend at a nearby community college are producing free online math textbooks aimed mostly at the kind of students we teach. So far they have college algrebra and pre-calc. You can download the .pdf file for free or have the book printed by Lulu for $15. If you want your students to get hard copies through your bookstore, you can make courspacks or order in bulk from Lulu. These are books that ordinarily cost $100+ and all shared via a Creative Commons license.

Tell your colleagues!

|>


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 1:53 PM
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81/87: Still doesn't make her anguish contemptible, even if the comparison is gross.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 1:55 PM
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"Dear Five Fingers:

I'm searching for a man with six toes on his right foot. Do any recent special orders match that description?

I thank you in advance for your assistance.

Best,
Inigo Montoya"


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 1:55 PM
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Five Fingers look less stupid on people with smaller feet. The bigger the feet, the more positively simian they look. NTTAWWT.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 1:57 PM
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I really want some, but I have new running shoes and don't run that much. I think over the winter I'm going to set myself a speed target and say that I can buy myself the Five Fingers when I can do three miles in 27 min on the treadmill.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 2:00 PM
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88: I'll bet the college algebra will be helpful for my ACT/SAT tutoring. Thanks. I'll also pass it along to my partner so she can share it with any math friends she has, since her college is not only equivalent to yours but in the same athletic league and so forth.

90: It's in the FAQs that they can't serve people with extra digits or webbed feet!


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 2:00 PM
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Still doesn't make her anguish contemptible, even if the comparison is gross.

SHE SUCKS!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 2:02 PM
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SHE SUCKS!

There you go!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 2:05 PM
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89: I think it makes her a little contemptible if her main goal was attention and / or pity. Wait, that's not exactly it. It kind of is. Yes, her kid is going to have difficulties, but the description made it sound like her anguish was mostly about how it would affect her. Which is...I dunno. Onanistic?

93 last: Because they get those emails! Amazing.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 2:10 PM
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"Is it possible to order a custom pair outfitted with a bunion fly? If so, I would be happy to send you my foot size and the dimensions of my bunions. (Please note that I was unable to figure out how to attach a photograph of my bunions. Perhaps your web team should address this? In the alternative, would you have preferred my flckr bunion photo pool?)"

Greatest hits.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 2:12 PM
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97 is great. I can't even begin to estimate how many times I have typed the word "bunion" over the past few years. Definitely hundreds and probably thousands, because a bunionectomy is one of the standard procedures used for clinical trials of analgesics or anesthetics.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 2:17 PM
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96...more: Um, not to say the whole situation doesn't pose difficulties for her. But. BUT. The comparison to children with a fatal, debilitating illness...Dude. The cystic fibrosis mom probs should have knocked her out.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 2:18 PM
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I also enjoyed this one, from another friend:

"Hello,

I am interested in purchasing a pair of these fantastic shoes for an acquaintance who happens to be a real naturalist. (You may have read about him as the leopard man: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/44090/the_leopard_man/ )

However, as you can see in the video, he tends to climb trees and occasionally walks on all fours. Are you planning on coming out with a hand "shoe" soon?

Also if there were any plans to make a leopard print in the near future, I would be interested in that as well."

I don't know why, but the offhand request for leopard print gets me every time.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 2:24 PM
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If this is the kid story thread - my youngest turned 8 today. How can that be?

Best presents: an 'adventurous boy' watch and a light saver sabre.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 3:03 PM
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woo hoo, asilon-child! Happy birthday!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 3:06 PM
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Oh, well done on the present. Happy birthday, asilon's kid!


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 3:23 PM
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re: 68

Probably coming in to this thread too late, but I've been having a lot of joy recently with doing simple exercises to strengthen the vastus medialis; a weak VM is supposed to be a cause of patello-femoral problems.

http://www.drpribut.com/sports/spknees.html

http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/cybertherapist/front/knee/vmo.php

Lunges don't work for me [they cause pain] but the simple isometric contractions and regular quad stretches seem to be really helping.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 5:57 PM
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104: I was already sort of unconvinced by the first link because it mentioned "subluxations", but Wikipedia leaves me sort of unconvinced by both.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 6:10 PM
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vastus medialis sounds like fake Latin for a big belly.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 6:20 PM
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VASTUS MEDIALIS IS A TOTAL POSEUR


Posted by: OPINIONATED GASTROCNEMIUS | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 6:33 PM
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I've had two different physiotherapists and one sports medicine doctor recommend strengthening the VM as a measure against knee pain.

I'd note that that wiki section is disputed, and has no citations, whereas there are a LOT of citable articles on patello-femoral syndrome. I grabbed the first on a random search a couple of minutes ago, so if there's some chiropractic woo, that's a bad choice. The near ubiquity of the recommendation to strengthen the VM, however, isn't bullshit.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 6:34 PM
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And I should stress that I've had a series of consulations at a sports medicine clinic, and a couple of periods of NHS physio for knee pain, so I'm not pulling information out of my arse.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 6:36 PM
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Citation.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 6:54 PM
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I mean, I'm not necessarily arguing against the point, and anyhow it doesn't seem like a bad idea to strengthen the muscles around the knee as a way of preventing knee pain. But it doesn't seem wholly uncontroversial.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 6:55 PM
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Citation


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 6:57 PM
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Citation


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 6:59 PM
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subluxation, in the hands of a practitioner NOT a chiropractor, may have meaning.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 7:01 PM
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Anyway, knee pain is a very complicated subject and I'd go with what a specific doctor who has talked to me said to do. There's a great deal to be said for trial and error in a area where hard and fast treatment recommendations aren't common. Because knees are tricky things, there is also a great deal of one study not finding things that other studies have found.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 7:03 PM
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Yeah maybe I'll ask a doctor now that I have health insurance. HAHA, I GO TO THE DOCTOR FOR AN REASON, INSURANCE COMPANY, HEAR THAT? YOUR MONEY IS LIKE WATER TO ME.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 7:05 PM
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116: See! That's why we can have nice things affordable healthcare.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 7:08 PM
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I suppose that should be "ANY REASON". Or maybe I'm dumbing myself down to talk to the insurance company?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 7:09 PM
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Sifu goes to the doctor: finally, for reasons; next, to heal the dryness of the place; after that, to refuse the future.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 7:13 PM
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117: It gets worse: I've heard Sifu practices recreational orthodontics, usually surreptitiously.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 7:20 PM
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I'm totally using "finally, for reasons" as a last-ditch argumentation gambit. It's right up there with "I'd rather have you whistle a Scottish tune."


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 7:44 PM
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No takers? Then allow me be the first to suggest that someone check Blume for hidden braces.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 8:01 PM
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Groan.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 8:02 PM
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subluxation, in the hands of a practitioner NOT a chiropractor, may have meaning.

Yes. Yes it does. Periodically, my patella likes to subluxate. Thankfully, this happens far less often than it did in high school/college -- now only once a year or so.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 8:04 PM
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I'm not sure if the light saber is such a good idea.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:11 PM
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My patella has never subluxated, but once my knee just refused to bend. I'd been painting the house we just bought and this involved going up and down stairs and ladders every day for a week. On the last day, my leg just told me to fuck off and refused to climb the stairs. Then, it sent me a memo saying that it understood the need for the ladder, but I wouldn't have needed to go up and down the stair so many times if I'd have planned better.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:41 PM
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Hey, speaking of running, I finally completed Couch to 5K! Now I suppose I should try running outside and not on a treadmill.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 9:51 PM
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I'm not sure if the light saber is such a good idea.

Marginally safer than the homegrown ones, though.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:32 PM
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78: People on bikes and pedestrians aren't first on my attention list when I'm driving, Stanley. It's bigger cars, SUVs, and trucks first, soft-shelled things last. Keep the lights and make sure the batteries are fresh.

I go to work in the morning dark, sometimes in mist. The fuckers out there in all black outfits, be that high-fashion or Hefty bag, apparently have no idea of how invisible they are when on-coming traffic is running HIDs mounted high.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:37 PM
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When I run, I hope my pale-as-my-Irish-ass legs make me easy to see.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-20-10 10:41 PM
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re: 110/111

That's interesting, because it seems, as far as I can tell, to be completely uncontroversial among practitioners in this area that strengthening the VM is effective against certain types of knee pain. When I first got treated I read up on it in entirely non-controversial orthodox sports physiology/physiotherapy texts and they all say essentially the same thing.

The general methodology for pain in joint X always seems to be 'strengthen the muscles surrounding joint X' and 'stretch the other muscles that affect the range of mobility around joint X'. In my case the recommendation was to strengthen the quads, and stretch the quads and hip flexors which are very tight relative to the hamstrings and lower back [which get stretched a lot by kicking]. So yeah, strengthening the quads is probably a good thing irrespective of the anatomy of the vastus medialis. It is interesting though if the specific strengthening regime recommended for the VM -- certain types of isometric contraction, etc -- isn't founded in genuine evidence from anatomy/physiology.

Anecdotally, it _is_ working for me. I'm not pain free in my knees, and haven't really been for years, but I'm recovering quicker from martial arts training sessions, able to train much harder during those sessions, and whereas before increased training often led to problems in the medium term, now I'm able to maintain a fairly constant level of activity without my knees degenerating.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 12:26 AM
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The general methodology for pain in joint X always seems to be 'strengthen the muscles surrounding joint X' and 'stretch the other muscles that affect the range of mobility around joint X'. In my case the recommendation was to strengthen the quads, and stretch the quads and hip flexors which are very tight relative to the hamstrings and lower back [which get stretched a lot by kicking].

FWIW, this may be an area where the science is changing (reasonably) rapidly. When I talked to my PT about knee pain, she said that it was only recently that research had shown that strengthening the glutes was more effective than working on the quads; she felt bad because for years she'd recommended that patients exercise their quads for knee issues.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 12:43 AM
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re: 132

Interesting. It's been 9 months or so since I last had any knee treatment, although only much more recently that I've begun being conscientious about the treatment recommendations. I wonder if I'd have different recommendations if I saw someone now? Or if NHS physios are behind the times.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 12:56 AM
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Periodically, my patella likes to subluxate.

Gah! I dislocated mine once when I was 15. Still gives me the willies to remember that.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 1:36 AM
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Argh, I am sitting in the hospital to have this stupid procedure it took a month plus to schedule and they can't admit me because my doctor's not in the computer system with operating privileges. I'm not sure why no one caught this in the four times they've called me to double check my address, etc. and allergies. I am not happy.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 3:53 AM
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Now now, Thorn, any more of that sort of thing and we won't send you any cigarettes.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 4:56 AM
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Oh Thorn, that sucks.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 5:03 AM
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It's okay. They logged me on under another doctor in the practice and I'm hoping they can fix that before myinsurance can do something like deny the charge. I'm in particularly hideous gowns and have my iv going, so nowcI just have to wait for tge doctor to be ready and then it really begins. I was just annoyed about having to sit for an hour in the lobby whlle Fox News blared. I guess if they'd been able to be prompt I'd have sat up here in the gowns, so it's basically a wash.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 5:20 AM
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Good luck, Thorn! Be well!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 5:29 AM
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Weird little kinks have responded well to acupuncture, in my limited experience. If you look for a community acupuncture clinic, you can get affordable treatment.

||

OT: NPR is pissing me off with these social security tax raising and benefit cutting. Stupid cow metaphor and black and white thinking. What ever happened to the trust fund people? Oh wait, that wasn't *REAL*. So, now we're supposed to raise funds dedicated to social security. Please.

|>


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 5:44 AM
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Hope it's a...fun medical procedure? Fun as can be? Good luck!


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 6:15 AM
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I hope this will be my last complaint, but they got me started on the pre-anaesthesia stuff, only to realize that my doctor hwd gotten the day wrong or something, so he'll be an hour late. So now I'm relaxed and prepaired to fight nause but no closer to getting the problem bits scraped out of my uterus. This sucks.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 6:18 AM
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I hope it goes well, Thorn!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 6:22 AM
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Jeez, Thorn. By all means, though, liveblog the relaxation. Or flirt with nurses?


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 6:55 AM
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Liveblogging is no good if my spelling is this bad. I know one drug I got was vaum-like but I almost feel like there was a muscle relaxant in there somewhere. I'm the only one left in surgery prep, so they let Lee sit beside me and read her book while I peck at this screen. I have TWO heated blankets on me now, which is warming me up nicely. I still don't like the sensation of having an IV. I can feel stuff push through to my heart (or think I can) and it makes me want to giggle uncomfortably. At least there will be no morphine this time aound. That stuff burns and makes me babble.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 7:02 AM
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I suggest that you record your thoughts in an audio file and then post it for us to listen to online.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 7:05 AM
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The one time I had an IV I was probably pretty dehydrated and it felt magical to have this cooling liquid passing over me.

Keep up the babbling! It's entertaining!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 7:16 AM
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147:

IV or beer bong??


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 7:18 AM
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Liveblogging is no good if my spelling is this bad.

This almost exactly the opposite of the case.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 7:18 AM
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Taking vaum via beer bong? Liveblog away!


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 7:29 AM
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Yes, when I was dreadfully ill with an inflamed gallbladder, all these interventions seemed tolerable, and even the morphine would have been fine if it had cut the pain.

I'm just frustrated because I got here at 6 am and shoukd be coming out of surgey now, not waiting for it to start. Bah! But I'm just sitting here listening to the nurses gossiping about what schools their kids attend and who got what shift. I really didn't sleep last night and I'm totally exhausted.

Lee is being remarkably patient, for her. She hasa a book and there's no Fox News in here. On my trip to the bathroom, I found her an empty waiting room with small couches where she can relax once I go in.

Hmm, and now there's blood in my IV, though the nurse checking it just had to go take a call. Mysterious. Apparently it just needed flushing with saline. Eww, the creepy full-veinnfeeling!

Oh, and for the last two hours I've been wearing a bright blue lunchlady-style hair cover. It's probably not very sanitary at this point.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 7:30 AM
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Yes, when I was dreadfully ill with an inflamed gallbladder, all these interventions seemed tolerable, and even the morphine would have been fine if it had cut the pain.

I'm just frustrated because I got here at 6 am and shoukd be coming out of surgey now, not waiting for it to start. Bah! But I'm just sitting here listening to the nurses gossiping about what schools their kids attend and who got what shift. I really didn't sleep last night and I'm totally exhausted.

Lee is being remarkably patient, for her. She hasa a book and there's no Fox News in here. On my trip to the bathroom, I found her an empty waiting room with small couches where she can relax once I go in.

Hmm, and now there's blood in my IV, though the nurse checking it just had to go take a call. Mysterious. Apparently it just needed flushingbwith saline. Eww, the creepy full-veinnfeeling!


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 7:31 AM
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Awesome! That second comment was posted first but I was led to believe it didn't go through. This hospital is Magic!

It's also Catholic, so I had to have a pregnancy test before letting anyone root around in my uterus. They haven't yet told me the outcome, but somehow I'm not worried. Though with the way today's been going, parthenogenesis might be the obvious next step.

And the second shift of surgeries is starting to trickle in. I'm all alone frpm my cohort, so alone!


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 7:37 AM
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They haven't yet told me the outcome, but somehow I'm not worried. Though with the way today's been going, parthenogenesis might be the obvious next step.

Catholics might think there's reason to be wary on that score. On the other hand, you'd definitely get some special treatment from them, in that event.


Posted by: A Guest | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 7:42 AM
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Wouldn't any hospital want a pregnancy test before rooting around in one's uterus? For liability reasons?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 7:45 AM
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parthenogenesis

No one move a muscle as the dead come home.

Earworm aside, though, good luck with everything.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 7:46 AM
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I'm sure I would, but no D&C, which is what I'm here for!


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 7:46 AM
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155: Yes, and my doctor will only do this pre-ovulation to prevent any pregnancy interference. I'm still used to campus health services, where every interaction requires a prior pregnancy test. I knowcthey can't just take my word for it.

Lee wants me to rest now so she can go get food and get warmed up, so farewell unless the wait is so long she comes back!


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 7:51 AM
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Take care, Thorn!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 7:56 AM
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I'm still used to campus health services, where every interaction requires a prior pregnancy test. I know they can't just take my word for it.

Campus health services are weird. I conceived Rory during grad/law school and had the preliminary blood work done at the campus health center. Despite the fact that I indicated it was a planned pregnancy, they kept asking me if I had thought about what I wanted to do about the pregnancy, did I know my options, etc.

Good luck with the procedure, Thorn. May all go smoothly and the recovery be quick.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 8:00 AM
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Weird little kinks have responded well to acupuncture,

Huh. That guy I knew in college still likes women's shoes and wigs, and he gets acupuncture every month.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 8:06 AM
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I lost my faith in acupuncture after they fed me flying squirrel shit. I mean that completely literally.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 8:08 AM
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re: 163

Yeah, it's used in some medicines. Feces Tregopterii? Something like that. I worked on a research project for a pharmaceutical company working on licensing standardised TCM products for the medical market, once. That was one of the ingredients in one particular formulation [there were several] of one of the medicines they were looking to run stage 2 trials on.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 8:16 AM
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The company has now gone bust, I think, so I don't think the NDA I signed is relevant. Anyway, it was as product for amenorrhea and period pain.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 8:17 AM
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Thorn, good luck. We'll be here waiting when you're finished.

(Fun bonus: Maybe they'll let you keep the special non-slippy socks; they did after my surgery!)


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 8:22 AM
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162: That must be hard to collect, what with the flying and all.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 8:30 AM
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166 Just wash and wax your car, then park it under a tree in flying squirrel country.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 8:45 AM
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I tried that. An acupuncturist shit on my car.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 8:49 AM
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An acupuncturist with bad digestive problems.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 8:52 AM
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Complex-toothed flying squirrel dung. Complex-toothed flying squirrel inhabits montane forests of China from northeastern Hubei to Yunnan and adjacent parts of southeastern Tibet.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 8:54 AM
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Nine out of ten doctors recommend complex-toothed flying squirrel dung for their patients who chew flying squirrel dung.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 8:57 AM
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Also:

Yes, we have mice in our office. So they came through with glue traps and peanut-butter. I REALLY do not want to find a poor thirsty dying mouse in my office. Should I just resign myself to the glue trap in my office or set it delicately elsewhere in the building?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 9:13 AM
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||
Is it too much to ask that someone who's using Skype in a public place could use some goddamn earphones? I've been hearing both sides of a conversation for more than half an hour now.
|>


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 9:17 AM
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172: You could put a little thimble of water in the glue trap. If the mouse can reach that, it will either starve or die of stress.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 9:20 AM
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173: less irritating than hearing half of the conversation.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 9:22 AM
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172: Move it and replace it with a snap trap. They work better anyhow, and instead of a thirsty dying mouse, you get a fully dead mouse with its eyes popped out.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 9:23 AM
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Use a box trap. They run anywhere from $3 to $15 for the big metal kind. They're clean, and result in live movable mice. Try to take them somewhere sort of far to release them, though, or they'll get back in the office.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 9:25 AM
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176: Once I caught a timid mouse in a snap trap. Just got his front paw. That was unpleasant for me. Probably more unpleasant for the mouse, but he was trying to steal cereal from my floor, so just deserts and all.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 9:26 AM
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and result in live movable mice.

A disreputable taxidermist can make you a non-living moveable mouse with a small electric motor.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 9:27 AM
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No-kill traps deprecated by the Mineshaft. I was somewhat persuaded.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 9:36 AM
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180: Well, it's not like I dumped them off in the middle of a desert. There are plenty of comfortable places for a nice little rodent to meet a natural end in a big city like Brooklyn. I'd rather it not be in my own personal living space.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 9:40 AM
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I'm not at all convinced by Bitch's argument in the link in 180. You don't know what kind of mice are living in your house, or how adaptable it is.

I am pretty sure that the most successful released mice are the ones that find their way into some other building, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I try to release them near institutional buildings where their presence is more likely to go unnoticed.

When I lived in Chicago, I always released mice behind a church, with the admonition that they should be quiet, because they are now churchmice.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 9:51 AM
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Church mice are proverbially poor, not quiet: mice in general are quiet.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 9:55 AM
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183.last Because that of which they cannot squeak they pass over in silence.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 9:57 AM
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I try to release them near institutional buildings where their presence is more likely to go unnoticed.

Like near the offices of university math departments?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 9:59 AM
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"Quiet as a church mouse": 633,000 hits
"Poor as a church mouse": 1,170,000 hits.

Huh.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 10:00 AM
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"Quit as a church mouse": 77 hits. Which is a pretty good typo per use ratio.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 10:02 AM
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Makes sense, though: there's no particular way to enforce quietness against mice, so actual churchmice aren't going to be any quieter than other mice. Poverty, on the other hand, a mouse inhabiting a building where food isn't prepared like a church is going to go hungrier than a mouse in a building where people eat. What do churchmice eat? Candles? Hosts?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 10:03 AM
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into some other building, which isn't necessarily a bad thing

It is for the people in those buildings. A pair of mice can produce a litter every three to four weeks. As with mosquitoes, the case for killing wild mice is unambiguous.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 10:04 AM
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What do churchmice eat? Candles? Hosts?

There's an obvious transubstantiation joke waiting to happen there.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 10:05 AM
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Which is a pretty good typo per use ratio.

Even better:
"proverbial nail": 14,600 hits
"preverbal nail": 330 hits


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 10:07 AM
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189: I wouldn't go out of my way to kill a mouse living in the wild.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 10:11 AM
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I advocate having cats. It's a little bloody at first (man, do cats love to kill things), but quickly the vermin decide to congregate elsewhere. Your cat becomes bored, though, and will probably resort to destroying things of value. I suppose nothing is free.

(In my old place, when it got cold, one poor, stupid, apparently incredibly large animal ventured into my house. I'm not sure what it was, because I never found the body. Just the blood. So, so much blood. Opened my bedroom door, and the hallway was like a crime scene. I took pictures. It was incredible. Actual spatter.)


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 10:14 AM
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(If I sound proud, it's because I actually kind of was, in an awful kind of way. Definitely impressed. They murdered the shit out of something.)


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 10:15 AM
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193.2: The mail carrier?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 10:19 AM
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193.2 sounds like the opening to a Stephen King novel.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 10:30 AM
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"It's the plumber."


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 10:31 AM
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"Dave's not here, man."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 10:31 AM
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195: I had hoped, briefly, my landlord.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 10:36 AM
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Why did my cat spend all night tearing round the house at high speed chasing nothing in particular?

"Solely", Linley said, "in order to get an appetite."


Posted by: Lord Dunsany | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 10:39 AM
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An appetite for fish, surely.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 10:50 AM
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For plumbers, I was trying to imply.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 11:01 AM
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Hi, guys! Here I am, all hopped up on pain meds (fentanyl?) but awake for 1.5 hours and drinking soda and getting ready to transition back to the real world in the next hour. The doctor removed two polyps and seems pretty sure this will fix what's been ailing me. I'm cool with that.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 11:07 AM
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Yay, medical science generally and good drugs particularly!


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 11:11 AM
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About time! Now, we can have a party in Thorn's uterus!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 11:12 AM
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203: Yay for polyps! (I love that word, polyp polyp polyp.)


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 11:22 AM
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203: Excellent.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 11:23 AM
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I am shocked that your female elective surgery is covered, Thorn.

Those kinds of elective surgeries for women "down there" really shouldnt be covered by insurance.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 11:31 AM
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As a kid I loved Dave Barry. I had no idea what he meant by saying that Reagan's message was so empty in the 1984 election that it could have been summed up as "Reagan: Most of his polyps were benign", but I went around repeating it to everyone.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 11:31 AM
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Now, we can have a party in Thorn's uterus!

Assuming she's no Tia, of course.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 11:31 AM
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There can be only one Tia.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 11:59 AM
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I served with Tia's uterus, I knew Tia's uterus, Tia's uterus was a friend of mine. Senator, you're not Tia's uterus.


Posted by: Lloyd Bentsen | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 12:08 PM
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There can be only one Tia.

¡No es la verdad, Guillermo!


Posted by: Sobrinos y sobrinas | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 12:10 PM
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Now, we can have a party in Thorn's uterus!

Or maybe Storm Large's vagina, if you're anticipating a crowd.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 12:17 PM
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I like the word polyp and can't really separate it from Robert Benchley saying it, though these are of coursevpolyps of a different sort.

Will, I'm not supposed to have anything in my vagina for the next 3-4 weeks and I don't think there's another obvious entrance. I think the doctor sort of wanted to ask what kind of sex we have so he could rule on its permissibility, but Lee was glaring at him so much that he dropped the subject. Ironically, she wasn't evenpaying attention to what he was saying, just still glowering over how he'd been three hours late.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 12:17 PM
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Yeah, I would have glowered. Somehow it's more satisfying to glower on behalf of others? Odd.

Agreed: polyp is excellent. I am also now having some fun with glower. (A grumpy flower!) And smock will always have a special place in my brain, right next to all other things Watterson.

And also: yay for drugs! And successful surgeries! You have to go back to the real world kind of soon tho, no?


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 12:47 PM
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I actually was able to move things so
I don't work again until Friday. But this was a minor and minimally invasive procedure, so I should recover relatively quickly.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 12:53 PM
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So much for the party. Maybe it can be a Halloween party.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 12:57 PM
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minimally invasive procedure

This phrase is somewhat humourous given the kind of procedure that it was.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 12:59 PM
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"Would you like the...maximally invasive option?"


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 1:03 PM
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220:

Maybe that is what you get in a teaching hospital when they want to show everything to 10 residents.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 1:05 PM
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220: "This is Doctor Fontana Labs."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 1:10 PM
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222: He never misuses a probe.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 1:13 PM
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221: That happened to a friend of mine in college! The doctor asked if the med students could have a look, because she had a bruise on her cervix.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 1:15 PM
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224:

That is what she gets from roughhousing. It is always funny until someone gets a bruised cervix.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 1:20 PM
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Cervixbruiser is Armsmasher's weekend alter-ego.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 1:31 PM
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[Insert the sound of the repression of a number of over the line in-jokes here.]


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 1:33 PM
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Yay for drugs, yay for successful surgeries, not so yay for surgeries as such, but enjoy the time off from work silver lining.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 1:43 PM
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225: ...Nope, still funny. As far as gyno visits go, I guess?

I think a funny thing to do during a gynecologist appt would be to thrust your arms above your head and fake-scream "WHEEEEEEE!" at an inopportune moment. Haven't tried it. Probably won't.

(I do like to imagine screaming "WHEEEEE!" in various situations, though. This stems from some advice I recently gave a friend who is doing scary, life-changing things: "When you get scared, just put your arms above your head and scream 'WHEEEE!' until it gets fun again. Works on rollercoasters." It occurred to me soon after that it probably works in other situations, too. Public speaking. Claustrophobically crowded elevators. Etc. This is what I've been thinking about for the past hour or so, rather than the things I'm supposed to be doing. Clearly.)


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 1:43 PM
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229:

I am thinking that would be a bad time to startle your gyn.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 2:02 PM
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229: I do a little victory dance when I fuck up. Takes the edge off a bit. Also in the vague hope that onlookers might think I intended to drop the beaker of pump oil all over the floor/bash my head on the door jamb/electrocute myself/etc. and that the apparent absurdity of what they just witnessed in fact conceals a deep and subtle design which their puny minds cannot grasp.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 2:02 PM
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231: I do something similar. No dance, but a celebration. "Yesss!" *fistpump*


Posted by: A Guest | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 2:05 PM
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230: Yeah. You'd have to choose your moment very, very wisely.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 2:10 PM
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I reiterate my recommendation of cats. ToS seems to be in the wrong thread, if not the wrong blog.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 2:10 PM
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You people are distracting.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 2:18 PM
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Glowering Polyp could take a place among the recommended pseuds. Glad to hear the ordeal's through with and stuff is better, Thorn.


Posted by: persistently visible | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 2:26 PM
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215 I've never in my life encountered a group of people so highly characterized by knowing who Robert Benchley was. Even on a thread having nothing to do with me accidentally suggesting The Pre-Marriott Algonquin and then having to back-pedal.

I used to drop phrases from the funny little piece "Contributors to this issue" into conversation or email sometimes because I like a good inside joke between me and me. "rather unattractive looking" is easy enough, but you rarely get to use "How to Decorate a Mergenthaler Linotype Machine."


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 2:31 PM
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Had only it been another commenter having this minor procedure I would be working hard on a setup for "apo polyps now" but, er.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 2:34 PM
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Glowering Polyp could take a place among the recommended pseuds.

Ooh, good one!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 2:37 PM
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Smearcase and Thorn: Fine Frogs for Fussy Folk


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 2:38 PM
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240: I'd be proud to be part of that endeavor! The one that's always made me laugh aloud is Talking Dogs. I don't know what it is about it, but I get giggling and can't stop. I had such a Benchley obsession at age 12 or so and my mother still gives me collected editions whenever she finds them.

And I'm glad everyone seems so entertainrd by the goings-on in my uterus. It's not quite what I would have expected but it made my annoyance easier this morning.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 3:16 PM
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If I was allowed to, I would totally change my pseudonym to "Marmaduke Hammerhead". Oh well.

|| Lost a member of the community today. Not someone I knew personally, but someone that was close to a lot of people I am close to. Very sad.

Also, my friend is really struggling with trying to get her benefits. You'd think that someone who is 8 months pregnant and unemployed for almost a year could at least get foodstamps, wouldn't you? Not in this state, buster.
||>


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 3:16 PM
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Natilo, for reasons I don't totally underestand, your state has a ton of adoptive families and a large presence in the adoption/special needs blog arena. I keep hearing about how much worse the coverage for people with disabilitirs will get in 2011. It sounds like it's going to have a huge impact.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 3:20 PM
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Yeah, it's a big thing in the culture here. I'm not sure why exactly. I mean, there would seem to be some kind of through-line from Lutherans-sponsor-refugees-of-the-Vietnam-War => Interest-in-international-adoptions-of-Asian-children => General-support-for-adoptions-of-any-kind, but that seems too facile.

It's bizarre how quickly things have changed here. This used to be a state where you could count on some help if you were in a bad way. And some of those programs are still around, but everything they cut stresses the rest of the system that much more. Fucking Republicans. Buncha goddamn racists, every single one of them. Seriously. The non-racists have pretty much abandoned the party at this point. It was really scary when Pawlenty was talking about cutting MinnesotaCare completely. I've got a diabetic friend who would basically have had to die at that point.

Clearly, we need some riots to burn a bunch of shit down and really scare the hell out of the suburbanites so they vote back some benefits. Sadly, my street-fighting days are behind me.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 3:27 PM
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This has a lot to do with why the benefits keep getting cut, of course.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 09-21-10 3:32 PM
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OT, but I've just started reading the 244 commenter's name as "Natural Paynim" which I think is what Shakespeare would have called an Afro. "No more hair straighteners for Othello! I'm going Natural Paynim!"


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 09-24-10 7:24 AM
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