Re: With the circles and arrows and paragraphs explaining it on the back

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Yeah, but they're old they call short pants "knickerbockers."

I support you, heebie. Right here in the comments!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 7:50 AM
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^so


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 7:50 AM
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The movie is not too bad if you want a variation. Arthur Penn was a 1st class director and though this isn't one of his best, he adds interesting touches. Arlo is cute, and looks less innocent, or more interestingly idealistic, than the song would have you think.

And so "Alice's Restaurant" is another tragic arrow through our empty, modern- day heart -- a damning reminder of just how low this country has sunk, how far a nation of bloodless, soulless opportunists has strayed from the garden.
...jt1999 at IMDB

Get outta my garden!


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:04 AM
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If you'd kept your shortpants on, you wouldn't have to pee in the middle of the night so often now.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:18 AM
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How would shortpants remove the necessity of urination?


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:20 AM
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Shortpants removal increases the long-term risk of a fetus monkey-stomping your bladder.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:22 AM
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||

Students at work in the UK today:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/nov/24/student-school-pupils-protests-walkout

>


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:23 AM
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Oh, duh. This raises the question of how apostropher knows what she was wearing.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:28 AM
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Wow, #7 is very favorable coverage. I'm not used to seeing coverage of a protest other than "Watch out, honest hardworking people, some lunatics are going to cause property damage", followed by "According to police sources, lunatics caused property damage yesterday."


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:29 AM
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Guardian, innit. Although the BBC isn't too bad:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11829102

The photo of the school kids round the police van is a good one.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:30 AM
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ttaM, any idea which current thinks it wise to vandalise paddy wagons? About as diversionary as I can imagine...


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:36 AM
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re: 11

No idea. But yeah, I take your point.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:37 AM
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11: I think I can speak to that.

But seriously, I'm very proud of the British students. That property destruction at Tory HQ, now that was some first-rate property destruction. They should do that all the time if they want to seize power.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:41 AM
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Further to 11, there is always the 'young people, sometimes some of them get carried away' thing.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:54 AM
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Hey you kids, get off my paddy wagon.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:58 AM
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any idea which current thinks it wise to vandalise [riot] wagons?

That's what they're for, isn't it?


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:03 AM
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Apparently a bit of my work place [in Oxenforde] is occupied at the moment. Second time in the past 2 years.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:06 AM
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Cazart! Even Royal Holloway of all places has an occupation on.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:17 AM
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Plus, I gather, Birmingham, Warwick, Leeds, Sheffield, and others.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:19 AM
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Apparently a bit of my work place [in Oxenforde] is occupied at the moment. Second time in the past 2 years.

Oxford students in the Bodleian voluntarily? Very suspicious.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:22 AM
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re: 20

I'd bet the staff would rather they were there less often, tbh. You can go in even fairly late in the day and there's loads of the buggers, studying. It's sickening.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:27 AM
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To the OP

I try to listen to this every Thanksgiving. My kids are underwhelmed. But this Thanksgiving, I am in Montana (hi, CC!) with my hippie sisters, so we all enjoyed it as we gathered in the kitchen starting prep work on Thanksgiving dinner. Thanks!


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:33 AM
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Kids these days! When I was a lad, they occupied the Examination Schools.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:43 AM
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Seems to be over in Sheffield. The special bodies of armed men with prisons etc. were all climbing into their coaches when I left work.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:46 AM
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21: in my day they were all in there flirting with each other. Especially in the upper bit of the Rad Cam. You say they're actually studying? Are you sure?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:48 AM
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re: 25

It's hard to tell. They may just be sending tweets and checking their emails.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 10:01 AM
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Speaking of Arlo Guthrie, I wanted to thank CharleyCarp for this link.

I don't think I mentioned it here before, but I liked that performance and forwarded that to my dad who also liked it and started singing that song. A little bit less than a month later it was his birthday -- his first birthday after his mother died, and the evening ended with him playing music with a group of old friends and two of the songs that I particularly remember from that evening were "Can't Help Falling in Love" and "Someday Soon" and everybody joined in on "Can't Help Falling in Love" and sang through it three or four times.

So, credit to Charley for passing along a great performance at what happened to be a very good time.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 10:07 AM
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¡HUEVOS RANCHEROS! ¿DÓNDE ESTÁ LA BIBLIOTECA?


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 10:33 AM
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The "Alice's Restaurant" on Thanksgiving thing is one of those traditions of which I was completely unaware until the internet came along.

Arlo is apparently now a Ron Paul fan, which is sad.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 10:37 AM
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The "Alice's Restaurant" on Thanksgiving thing is one of those traditions of which I was completely unaware until this thread came along.

Also, I saw Dr. Ruth Westheimer on a news chat show yesterday. First of all, I thought she died at least ten years ago. Second of all, the crawl read "24% of Baby Boomers unsatisfied with their sex life". 24%? That's good news for Baby Boomers, right? Or is it supposed to be alarmist, suggesting that if you're unsatisfied you're in the minority?

Anyway, that seemed related.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 10:56 AM
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OT: This article on rediscovering traditional shtetl food mentions something called 'kishke'. Say what? The dish known as 'kiszka' to their ancestral neighbours consists of: pig intestine casings filled with pigs blood, pig scraps (snout, tongue, feet - whatever is at hand) pig meat, kasha, and spices. Or in other words the best blood sausage around. But not an especially kosher one.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 11:06 AM
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OT: Armed MN Lawmaker Detained Near Planned Parenthood. But the story is stranger than that.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 11:13 AM
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31: Huh? I grew up eating Jewish kishka; it's perfectly easy to make kosher, using beef instead of pork.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 11:44 AM
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31: Seems to be basically the same thing--only the kosher version with dead cow rather than pig.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 11:44 AM
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29.2 is sad. His father is rolling over in his grave.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:04 PM
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29.35: As detailed in a George Will column. (I'm not sure what the whole story is but Arlo contributed a blurb to Paul's End of the Fed, "Rarely has a single book not only challenged, but decisively changed my mind."

But as Will has it Alice's Restaurant shows Arlo was always already a fellow traveler:

He too, is the son of a famous father -- Woody Guthrie, the Depression-era composer and singer of leftist songs. Arlo's libertarian leanings were already strong on Thanksgiving Day 1965 when he had a famous run-in with government in the form of Officer Obie in Stockbridge, Mass.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:09 PM
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it's perfectly easy to make kosher, using beef instead of pork.

And leaving out the blood, of course.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:12 PM
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And yeah, kishke is a well-known part of Ashkenazi cuisine. I didn't grow up eating it, though, and I don't think I ever have.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:13 PM
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32: Worse, in some ways:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=279356&id=154628464579857


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:14 PM
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Crap, that didn't work. Anyway, before they take it down, that was supposed to be a link to an unbelievably racist add for T-giving happy hours. In St. Paul. In Wisconsin.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:16 PM
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35:from NYT Magazine interview:

Where are you politically these days?
I became a registered Republican about five or six years ago because to have a successful democracy you have to have at least two parties, and one of them was failing miserably. We had enough good Democrats. We needed a few more good Republicans. We needed a loyal opposition


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:17 PM
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In St. Paul. In Wisconsin.

You Minneapolitans really like to distance yourselves from that other city, don't you?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:20 PM
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41

Wow. So Guthrie is McManus?


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:20 PM
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Whoa. This is awesome, though maybe old news to others: Les Machines d'Ile Nantes. There's a cool gallery of some of them at this blog post, too.


Posted by: trapnel | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:21 PM
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42: C'mon, they're practically the same thing.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:21 PM
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T-giving happy hours

How nice of them to support trans men who are transitioning.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:21 PM
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40: Drink like an Indian! Party like a pilgrim!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:22 PM
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Googling says that everybody here is right that it is a pretty standard thing. It also suggests that it is nothing like a beef version of kiszka. It's flour, matzoh meal, onions, spices and chicken fat in a beef intestine casing.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:23 PM
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For the New Yorkers, Arlo is going to be in the Macy's parade apparently (and a show at Carnegie Hall Saturday night).

And for heebie: at a place called Gruene Hall in New Braunfels on March 24th.

Not that I'd be likely go to a show of his.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:28 PM
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I am not worthy.


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:28 PM
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41: Whatevs, dude. You're still going up against the wall.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:29 PM
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51: Harsh!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:30 PM
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I mean, not before John Boehner or anything.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:32 PM
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It also suggests that it is nothing like a beef version of kiszka. It's flour, matzoh meal, onions, spices and chicken fat in a beef intestine casing.

In my defense, I'll say that kishka is like legislation: you may like the end result, but you don't want to know how it's made.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:33 PM
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Most damning Arlo quote yet (from back in 2004 regarding the Jib Jab parody):

Well, I really can't speak for him. I can just tell you that when I saw it a few weeks ago I thought it was one of the funniest commentaries if not one of the most directly inspired... I called my sister, I called my friends, I sent everybody a link to the site so that they could go see it. And we've all been laughing about it since then. I think my dad would have absolutely loved the humor in it.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:42 PM
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51 to 50. Happy Thanksgiving, Pauly!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:47 PM
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Arlo apparently opposed HCR because of mandatory vaccines and lack of payment for homeopathic cancer treatment. Plus it shouldn't be done by the government, but everybody should have access to health care. He also opposes the Democrats because they're debasing money and the government is stopping him from owning a 'cool 21st century flying electro-magnetic car'.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:48 PM
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Thanks, Apo! You're the best!

Well, you and nosflow.


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:51 PM
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55: Well, it was nice that he didn't try to sue them or anything, but the enthusiasm is quite excessive.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:51 PM
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57: To be fair, his cool 20th century flying electro-magnetic far is now over 10 years old.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 12:54 PM
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Maybe this is something that everyone's just supposed to know without being told, but: is the Mineshaft's Pauly Shore an actual would-be commenter desperate for affection, a OPINIONATED GRANDMA-style collective voice, or something else entirely?


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 1:04 PM
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Some kind front-pager with more patience than I have has been turning the ToS into Pauly Shore.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 1:06 PM
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He's the ToS with replaced comments and name.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 1:06 PM
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It's flour, matzoh meal, onions, spices and chicken fat in a beef intestine casing.

I would eat this.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 1:08 PM
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Aha! I actually thought he might be a weird, 2nd-personality of the ToS, because of the similar times. That's me, always thinking the best of people.


Posted by: trapnel | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 1:11 PM
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The real Pauly Shore may be coming to a town near you!

http://www.paulyshore.com/site/tour-dates-new/


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 1:17 PM
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64 Did you eat the real stuff while you were in Chicago? It's standard fair at any Polish charcuterie/butcher place.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 1:17 PM
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66: I like 5 shows in Peoria, then on to New York!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 1:27 PM
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68: Don't feel bad, NYers -- you get 4 nights of Pauly! Not quite Peoria, but close!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 1:32 PM
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67: As a Jew I object to this "real stuff" talk. The Jewish version is "real" too! And almost as disgusting!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 1:37 PM
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homeopathic the right to refuse cancer treatment


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 1:41 PM
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Hey, NickS, my day is made. Thanks for sharing.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 1:42 PM
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64 Did you eat the real stuff while you were in Chicago? It's standard fair at any Polish charcuterie/butcher place.

No, in fact, despite living near Ukrainian Village[1] my last year there, I experienced shamefully few eastern or middle-european foodstuffs.

[1] I know that Ukraine and Poland are not the same.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 2:15 PM
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OK, I finally listened to it (and read the lyrics because otherwise I wouldn't have known what was going on) and erm, yes, well. This must be something you have to grow up with to appreciate.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 3:12 PM
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Haven't read upthread, but had to chime in to say this is my most favorite of all the Thanksgiving customs.


Posted by: JennyRobot | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 4:04 PM
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My most favorite of all the Thanksgiving customs is getting drunk and watching football. Also, I was born on a Thanksgiving Day, so it's my favorite of all holidays.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 4:11 PM
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Use Cheez Whiz in your creamed onions. The Pilgrims did.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 4:23 PM
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Kiszka, kishke sounds like Eastern European haggis. Or like that deconstructed raw Ethiopian 'haggis' thing that Tierce had at the last London meetup [fortifying himself for the knife-fighting].


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 4:23 PM
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I was sick of this song before you were out of shortpants, heebie.

Not really, but I just wanted to say that. Thank you.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 4:54 PM
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Shortpants.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 4:56 PM
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Also.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 4:57 PM
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Gotta say I'd had enough of Alice's Restaurant a while ago, too. But! Traditions are traditions, so have at 'em.

Tomorrow I will join the feast of thanks with people who are known for *throwing away the turkey carcass*, *into the trash*, after the meal! I'll bite my lip and let another attendee protest in her very mild way, since I'm a mostly-vegetarian anyway, and I don't want to bring the carcass home myself. Uh, my mother really wouldn't like that throwing-away thing, though.

I'm bringing a fairly radical apple-nut bread, currently baking, made with 2/3 white flour and 1/3 wheat flour. God knows how it'll go over, but the thought counts.

Cheers!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 6:22 PM
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82: I've been the kind of vegetarian who hassles her meat-eating roommates into putting some goddamn effort into roasting a bird. They're both, as discussed earlier, immigrants to our fine country, who think it's acceptable to buy a roast chicken. Who buys a roast chicken? We have a huge chef's oven, FFS. They have decided I should have no opinion in this matter.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 6:40 PM
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I might engage in some opining if I were joining friends rather than an existing family with its own traditions, which in their case are the very standard ones.

It's one very strange thing, joining this family for thanksgiving every few years: I'm one of the outlying hippies, and they politely and solicitously try whatever I've brought, but really they have it all covered. I suppose it's roughly something like what you say: not quite that I should have no opinion, but they don't even understand what I'm saying.*

Anyway, it's always a trip.

* I recall that 3 years ago when I joined them, our hostess had tried something with the turkey, added a fresh herb. She couldn't recall what it was exactly; going off a recipe. She withdrew several sprigs. I said helpfully, "That's rosemary." Blank nods.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 7:03 PM
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She withdrew several sprigs the remaining two bird portions. I said helpfully, "That's rosemary a ducken." Blank nods.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 7:10 PM
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I'm bringing a fairly radical apple-nut bread, currently baking, made with 2/3 white flour and 1/3 wheat flour.

My go-to baking recipe for the last couple of years has been an evolving apple-ginger-molasses bread which is very good, and uses 100% whole wheat flour, so I don't think that's a problem.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 7:16 PM
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86: You might have to share that recipe, Nick, because my evolving apple-nut-things-in-various-ways bread receipt does not deeply please these people, I think because of the wheat flour.

Actually I tried a squash bread the last time. They just always seem so solicitously inquiring as to its composition that I think they don't love it. Maybe I'm just paranoid.

Let it be known that I'm kind of hinky about molasses, though. Not a fan.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 7:31 PM
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Who buys a roast chicken?

Yo. From the Kroger deli, once a week. A slice of white beside my lettuce and chopped pear or plum. Dark flavors the dog's kibble. I am no gourmand.

We haven't used the stove in ten years. $5 a week rather than $3? I haven't priced a raw chicken for years.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 7:31 PM
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I'm kind of hinky about molasses

I'm constantly running into mole asses. Do you have any idea how dark it is down here?


Posted by: A Mole | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 7:34 PM
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We haven't used the stove in ten years.

That is just fucking weird. But! Whatever floats your boat.

"But!" is apparently my new response to some things.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 7:41 PM
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The stove is where scrambled eggs come from.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 7:44 PM
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89: So that's what the little feeler things on your nose are for!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 7:47 PM
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You might have to share that recipe, Nick

It's a lose recipe but, in essence here it is (and I'm sure I'm going into too much detail in some places and not enough in others, but it gives you some sense of which parts of the recipe are more important):

1) Make applesauce with fresh local apples.
-- I use a 2 qt pot, which ends up about 3/4 full of sauce, and most of that will go into the bread, but there's a little bit left for snacking.
-- I'm a believer in hybrid vitality when it comes to applesauce, so I'll get a variety of apples. I want half the apples to be the tartest that I can find (if you have Bramley's Seedlings make that only 1/4 of the total) and half some assortment of sauce apples.
-- I want the final applesauce to have chunks of cooked apple in it, so I deliberately start the sauce cooking as soon as I have 3 apples chopped, and let it cook while I keep chopping. I usually cook it covered and, at the end of the process I'll probably wait an extra 10 minutes or so before tossing in the final set of chopped apples to just make sure that everything has a good head start.
-- After the apples have started to turn into sauce (maybe 15 minutes after they've started cooked) finely chop a *lot* of fresh ginger (maybe two pieces, each a little bit larger than the size of your thumb) and toss into the apple sauce).
-- Add the juice of 1 lemon or 2 limes.
-- sauce takes up less space than chopped apples so you'll fill the pot, cover it, let it cook down a bit, and then add more apples. I end up doing that two or three times over the cooking process.

The applesauce can be made ahead of time and put in the fridge. I think it works better as a two-day process, in fact, since the applesauce is what takes most of the time, so then the second day you can throw the bread together in 20 minutes plus baking time. Also if the applesauce is still how when you prepare the bread it will melt the butter, which isn't a problem, but changes the texture.

For the bread
1) Dry Ingredients
-- 3.5 cups flour (course ground whole wheat is my favorite, the whole recipe is quite moist, so it holds up)
-- salt to taste
-- 1-2 tsp baking soda or baking powder (I never have baking powder around so one reason I add lemon juice to the apples is to make sure the baking soda will react).

Mix together

-- 1 stick butter
-- cream butter with 1 cup sugar if the applesauce is distinctly tart, less if the apples are sweet.
-- 1 tsp vanilla, or more to taste
-- 2 eggs
-- molasses (if desired)
-- add most of the applesauce that you made -- at least 2 cups, and 3 cups is fine.
-- add dried fruit or nuts if desired
-- mix in dry ingredients, pour into baking pan and put in over.

For baking I use a ceramic casserole dish, like this and bake for about 40 minutes at 375 at a lower rack, but you can adjust. I do think that having a heavyweight pan is good for making sure that it cooks all the way through without getting too crisp on top.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:03 PM
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Nick, thanks. But wow. I have no problem with making the applesauce, but the portion of the baking that involves "salt to taste" and "1-2 tsp baking soda or powder" frightens me. I'm not remotely confident enough as a baker to wing it on those.

Wow, I'm impressed. Also, 1 stick butter?

I suspect this bread is amazing.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:17 PM
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89: So that's what the little feeler things on your nose are for!

To be honest, you usually know right away, but if not it's all [feel feel feel], "Yep! It's another mole ass!"


Posted by: A Mole | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:23 PM
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but the portion of the baking that involves "salt to taste" and "1-2 tsp baking soda or powder" frightens me. I'm not remotely confident enough as a baker to wing it on those.

I use a heavy pinch of salt. I really should have said that. The "salt to taste" is more to say that I sometimes use coarse sea salt, which makes it taste saltier because you'll get the occasional saltier bite, but if you're at all worried just use a generous pinch of salt.

My notes about baking soda/powder were mostly intended to convey that it isn't particularly sensitive to that amount. It's a very moist bread, so it tends to be dense whatever you do. Just go with 1 tsp and don't worry about it.

As for the butter, it's a large recipe, I either give it away or end up snacking on it for 2 weeks or so. You have 3.5 cups of flour and ~ 2.5 cups of fruit, so 1/2 cup of butter (1 stick) really isn't that much.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:24 PM
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I'm roasting a duck, and then cooking some potatoes in duck fat. I'm also roasting a turkey breast, as a concession to my wife and mother-in-law, who don't tolerate any fancy folderol in their holiday meal. I was idly fantasizing about a chocolate pecan pie, because for some reason we have a big bag of pecans, but basta, potatoes in duck fat is decadence enough.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:24 PM
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Also, I said that you could add dried fruit or nuts, but I don't think nut actually work that well. If you're unsure of what you're doing I'd either add nothing at that stage, or some raisins.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:26 PM
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One last note: the reason I spend so much time on the applesauce is that my basic philosophy is that if you make good sauce and use a lot of it in the bread, then you'll be fine. Beyond that the one thing that is highly variable from batch to batch is the sweetness of the apples, and so sometimes the final bread comes out a little too sweet or not sweet enough, but both work fine. If it isn't sweet enough than it's a good breakfast, and if it's too sweet than it just pushes from "somewhat sweet snack" to "desserty".


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:30 PM
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Can I steal a "Kobe" opportunity from Stanley?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:37 PM
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Kobe wouldn't stop at potatoes in duck fat. You can't have enough decadence on Thanksgiving.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:45 PM
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Sweet fucking christ it is not easy wrangling a bird carcass the size of a six-year-old.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:49 PM
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96.2: I thought there was a difference between using baking powder and baking soda. In terms of the chemistry involved in the baking magic. I am apparently slightly paralyzed by the hand-waviness on that: WHAT SHOULD I DO IF I HAVE BOTH ON HAND?

Not that I have to shout out in alarm about it, but, you know.

Now that I check the link in 93.last to the baking dish you use, I see that it's a large recipe. You're convincing me that maybe I should try this, since I generally have all the ingredients available, and there's never anything wrong with making applesauce. There's just the baking powder/soda thing.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 8:50 PM
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There's just the baking powder/soda thing.

Baking powder contains both a base and an acid which combine (to create bubbles of air) when dissolved in a liquid. Baking soda just contains a base, so it would just make your bread taste odd if there wasn't an acid to combine with the the apples, lemon juice, and molasses (if you use it) all contain acids, so the baking soda will react with them (to create bubbles) when you combine it.

But, if you're worried about it, use baking powder.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:00 PM
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There are some missing words in the second sentence, but I think it makes sense regardless.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:01 PM
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103: For baking soda to work, there needs to be an acidic ingredient present--the acid reacts with the baking soda to form carbon dioxide, which provides the leavening. Baking powder is baking soda pre-mixed with an acid, so it works even if the recipe doesn't have acidic ingredients.

Since you have the baking powder, it'd probably be simpler to use that.


Posted by: the Other Paul | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:06 PM
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If I have not wrote in the high polite ſtyle, I hope I ſhall be forgiven; for my intention is to inſtruct the lower ſort, and therefore muſt treat them in their own way. For example: when I bid them lard a fowl, if I ſhould bid them lard with large lardoons, they would not know what I meant; but when I ſay they muſt lard with little pieces of bacon, they know what I mean.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:07 PM
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Arrgh.


Posted by: the Other Paul | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:07 PM
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104 was fascinating. 106 was right, as far as that goes, but everybody knows that.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:09 PM
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Mmm, lardoons.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:14 PM
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104, 106: Oh. Thanks! Apparently everybody knows that.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:16 PM
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It's possible that my leaving the orange peel out of the basic fruit-nut bread recipe (which calls for baking soda) may actually have an effect.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:18 PM
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Somehow cream of tartar is related to baking powder or soda or something.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:20 PM
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112: My understanding is that the acid comes from the orange's juice, so I don't think leaving the peel out will affect how well the baking soda works.


Posted by: the Other Paul | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:23 PM
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110: Speaking of which, I wish that someone with appropriate access could briefly summarize the contents of, Nash, Peter. "Morrill's Inappropriate, Unwarranted Lardoons." Professional Geographer 39.2 (1987): 204-05.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:24 PM
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X.trapnel, thanks; I've been wondering over Pauly's sudden appearance for weeks. And kudos to whoever is arranging it so deftly.


Posted by: Cady | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:25 PM
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113: It's an acid salt, so potentially provides the thing that can combine with the sodium bicarbonate.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:27 PM
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114: Yeah, probably not so much. Still, there's probably some acid in the peel. Eh, I have achieved high guessing status where baking is concerned.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:28 PM
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115: Well, I can at least quote the abstract:

This article presents the author's remarks on the paper "Some Important Geographic Questions," by Richard Morrill. It refers to the Doxiadan vision of super-concentrations in giant ecumenopolises or the McLuhanesque global village of total dispersion. Constantinos A. Doxiadis never prescribed any specific concentrations, super or otherwise. He never thought of ecumenopolis in the plural. Marshall McLuhan's global village was used as an icon, not as a geographical term. The image he tried to portray was that of humankind evolving into an increasingly smaller community, not in terms of density, but of information accessibility and interaction.

It's not clear to me what this has to do with lard. I'm supposed to have access to the full article through EBSCOhost, but I'm getting one of those mysterious "Click here to download plugin" messages when I try to click the "full PDF" link, so it doesn't look like I can download it.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:45 PM
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It's not clear to me what this has to do with lard.

New mouseover.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:52 PM
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Isn't somebody building a lardoon collider?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 9:56 PM
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87.2: I'd trust your instincts.
Also, molasses is delicious.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 10:01 PM
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115, 119: After criticizing Richard Morrill for misrepresenting the ideas of Constantinos Doxiadis and Marshall McLuhan, the letter goes on to say:

The most serious aspect of my criticism is that Morrill uses Doxiadis and McLuhan as "lardoons." He has cooked us up a piece of venison, but it is very, very dry. So he uses a little lard of "D & McL" to make it tastier, even though this particular brand is inappropriate.

Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 10:06 PM
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121: Once every hundred years it creates an X boson.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 10:06 PM
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Also, the current mouseover text is suitable.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 10:07 PM
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123: Thanks. I just could not picture the connection. Now if he had instead titled it, "Morrill's Inappropriate, Unwarranted Little Pieces of Bacon." it would have been clear to us lower ſorts.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 10:11 PM
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The text quoted in 123 is brilliant and trumps my previous favorite example of academic snark, which is also awesome but which unfortunately I can't quote here.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 10:13 PM
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121: Once every hundred years it creates an X boson. bacon.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 10:18 PM
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They're both, as discussed earlier, immigrants to our fine country, who think it's acceptable to buy a roast chicken.

It's my understanding that it is fairly common for the French, at least, to pick up a poûlet roti on their way home from work.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 11-24-10 11:40 PM
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Who buys a roast chicken?

Anyone who works late, wants to eat roast chicken for dinner, wants to go to bed at a reasonable hour, and has a shop near them that sells nice roast chickens.

btw, the confusion of the mind that might convince someone that a sausage made with pig's blood might be "basically the same thing" as a sausage made out of beef, is something I rather tremble to consider.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 12:17 AM
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Somehow cream of tartar is related to baking powder or soda or something.

Baking Powder = Soda + Cream of Tartar.

They add something to dry it out, but that's the functional bit.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 12:56 AM
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130. Also, anybody who wants to make a chicken salad to eat the same day. Or is hungry and fancies some roast chicken now. Or is away from home and wants a roast chicken.

In fact I'm astonished there are enough chicken roasters to supply the market.

btw, the confusion of the mind that might convince someone that a sausage made with pig's blood might be "basically the same thing" as a sausage made out of beef, is something I rather tremble to consider.

Loosely speaking, if you look at your breakfast and it contains black pudding, this indicates that you are north of a line from Birmingham to the Wash; whereas if it contains beef sausages, this indicates that you are actually in Scotland. So in some (non-culinary) sense one is a subset of the other.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 1:03 AM
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yeh - they presumably play the same functional role ("sausages"). But cow's blood doesn't coagulate in the same way as pig's blood - I can't see how you'd make a beef sausage that was even a little bit like a blood pudding.

In the town of Bury, Lancs, btw, the standard tests for bowel cancer cannot be used, because the residents eat so much black pudding that they always have high levels of hemoglobin in their stool samples. Enjoy your breakfast, motherfuckers.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 1:31 AM
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She meant "Who buys a roast chicken" for Thanksgiving, you damn limeys.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 1:51 AM
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Just getting into the spirit of the holiday.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 1:51 AM
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"In a shop on the banks of the Irwell, old Sam used to follow 'is trade,
In a place you'll have 'eard of, called Bury; you know, where black puddings are made."


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 2:26 AM
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Just getting into the spirit of the holiday.

No, I agree you don't want a roast chicken for Thanksgiving. You need it raw, so you can give the Native Americans salmonella poisoning to go wit the smallpox.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 2:29 AM
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it's a mealy-mouthed name for a holiday. I think you Yanks ought to show a bit more national pride. When you're celebrating that time when you met a load of poor people and stole their land, you should give it a more celebratory name, like "Empire Day".


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 2:59 AM
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Or, indeed, Victory Day.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 3:32 AM
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Sweet fucking christ it is not easy wrangling a bird carcass the size of a six-year-old.

I think it's supposed to help if you stick a beer can in your butt, but I'm not sure why.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 4:53 AM
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129: Can't they wear a condom or something?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 6:40 AM
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138: But "you" was you lot and your empire.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 7:20 AM
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142: Indeed.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 7:26 AM
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My paralegal, a member of the Dakota Nation, told me yesterday that her father had tried for some years to get a boycott of TG going. Without any success. She's cooking the turkey for her extended family today. The thing about her father came up when I made my standard joke about using Cheez Whiz just like the Pilgrims, and she replied, as if by reflex, that 'just like the Pilgrims' wasn't much of a recommendation for her. I blame Squanto.

We quickly found common ground, though, laughing about the vegan compliant butter equivalent substance I was being sent out to acquire, and then she reminded me that I owed her $5.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:03 AM
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We quickly found common ground, though, laughing about the vegan compliant butter equivalent substance I was being sent out to acquire, and then she reminded me that I owed her $5 a continent and for the death of 95% of her ancestors.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:13 AM
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she reminded me that I owed her $5
What, did you take her house?


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:13 AM
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138: whoa there. You don't get to blame the Pilgrim Fathers on us. We kicked those Taliban-lite weirdos out of the country for a reason, you know.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:30 AM
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Next year, I'll suggest recipes favored by Gen. Custer.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:41 AM
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148: Main dishes? Or just deserts?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 9:00 AM
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117 to 116.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 9:37 AM
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So I spent the morning making stuffing (experimental, out of homemade crusty bread. It may end up being unfortunately chewy.) and getting the turkey in the oven, and then I went out for a run. I started out at my usual slow pace, and then as I was turning left past the church, I looked down, and then I found five dollars.

No, I really found five dollars. That's the second time since Stanley started saying that. I can't think of the last time I found money on the street before, but that's my second five in the last year.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 10:04 AM
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One of our most important holidays is Thanksgiving Day, known in France as le Jour de Merci Donnant.

Le Jour de Merci Donnant was first started by a group of Pilgrims (Pèlerins) who fled from l'Angleterre before the McCarran Act to found a colony in the New World (le Nouveau Monde) where they could shoot Indians (les Peaux-Rouges) and eat turkey (dinde) to their heart's content.

They landed at a place called Plymouth (now a famous voiture Américaine) in a wooden sailing ship called the Mayflower (or Fleur de Mai) in 1620.
[...]

Le jour de Merci Donnnant


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 10:09 AM
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I'm not cooking the big dinner for the first time in at least ten years and don't know quite what to do with myself (perhaps I could get dressed, seeing as how it's after noon). Nobody wanted to host/clean up, so we're going to a restaurant, which I suppose is a very New York thing. It just means I'll be cooking tomorrow instead, though, since there won't be any leftovers.

Best wishes to all for the holiday.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 10:12 AM
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We're going out to a restaurant as well here in Cambridge - our apartment isn't big enough to host, really (plus the stairs would be a problem for my grandmother), and it's nice to outsource the labor, as well as limit the portions a bit. And they stock better wine than we do.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 10:22 AM
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153: You could do the Jewish Christmas thing and all have Chinese food and go to the movies.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 10:35 AM
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I'm spending it alone. I'm not into traveling, and the friends I could normally have it with are all doing out of town things. Plus I don't have much of an emotional attachment to the holiday. It's sort of like Easter to me - if I'm with people for whom it's a big deal and are doing the traditional meal it can be fun, but that's it. So, an excuse to make a nice complicated big meat centered meal on a Thursday.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 10:44 AM
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My roommates have decided that today is a good day for running errands unrelated to Thanksgiving and have outsourced buying the aforementioned roast chicken to one of the guests. I really do love them, but deeply suspect they are not taking this holiday seriously.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 10:49 AM
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John Stossel and FOXNews on the *right* lessons of Thanksgiving.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 10:52 AM
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I'm sitting around with Jammies' family, and my parents get in this afternoon. Nice day.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 10:54 AM
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We leave for Roberta's parents' house in Raleigh shortly. I think the last count had 30 place settings.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 11:12 AM
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I'm going to an orphans' Thanksgiving later; it'll be the first time in more than a decade I haven't spent the holiday with my family or Magpie's. Looking forward to it, although I'm a little sad to be missing the turducken my dad's making.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 11:22 AM
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Due to a newly-discovered unhappy genius among family and friends for blowing up the best-laid T-day plans, for the second year in a row we are doing a partial cook at our house and then transporting to someone else's place for the eating. Although this year it's the kids and I doing the cooking without benefit of any on-site expertise. The wife is dining with the truly aged at an independent living facility down in Delray Beach.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 11:42 AM
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I think this is my first time hosting a Thanksgiving at my own house. Although that means cooking most of the dinner for 10 people, at least I'm not schlepping a bunch of precariously packed and heavy dishes all over the city. We're having leek-carrot soup with homemade bread, runner beans, collards and kale, cornbread, cheesy potato casserole, chocolate cream pie, apple cobbler, and whatever else people bring.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 11:51 AM
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134: Oh! I totally missed that aspect of the comment. D'uh. That is a travesty.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 11:53 AM
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The Weasel says: you guys are the best.


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 12:27 PM
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My roommates have decided that today is a good day for running errands unrelated to Thanksgiving

How the hell do you run errands on Thanksgiving when everything is closed? I'm going stir-crazy here. (My family observes Thanksgiving on Friday for historical reasons, so I have nothing to do today but bake a cheesecake, which I've already done.)


Posted by: emdash | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 12:32 PM
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OK, Happy Turkey those who eat meat, Happy Armenia those who don't. Ciao.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 12:35 PM
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148: Main dishes? Or just deserts?

Man, so close to perfection.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 1:01 PM
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166: Eating a cheesecake would be something to do.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 1:03 PM
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Out snowshoeing, pic in pool.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 1:49 PM
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163 - what is a cheesy potato casserole?

151 - is that like the stuffing we had in Canada at Christmas which is sort of bits of bread soaked in gravy? We were most confused by the lack of availability of sausagemeat.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 1:58 PM
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I like how Yglesias thinks midwesterners eat something called a "people casserole".


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 2:25 PM
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166: Sign up for iTunes and start downloading enough stuff to approach bankruptcy. I just got an iPod and I'm thinking the whole system is somehow linked into one's addiction receptors.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 2:36 PM
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173: Yeah, a sterling example of consumption therapy. However, it's not MY fault the soap opera had its final episodes during the holiday season.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 2:39 PM
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It's like you've never heard of soylent green bean casserole, elitist.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 2:40 PM
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Oh man, pwned by Yggle's comments.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 2:46 PM
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So, made a reasonably traditional Thanksgiving dinner for my roommates--roasted chicken w/ green beans, Brussels sprouts, and mashed potatoes, with an apple crisp for dessert--and we ate it while watching a pirated stream of the Patriots game in the background, so I think I did my part as an American abroad.

I started telling them that the traditional thing is to recite the names of various exterminated Native American tribes, belting out "hoo-ah!" Army-style after each, but couldn't keep a straight face.


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 3:41 PM
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It's kinda weird seeing all the Thanksgiving updates on FB, where people who I think of as youthful tearaways are talking about brining turkeys and what not.

My sister and I are going to the big grad students' thanksgiving that my friends throw every year. There's probably going to be a lot of (East) Indian food there, as the Indian grad students make up a large plurality of the waifs and strays who show up.

Of course, this past weekend, I went to a party where there was an ENTIRE ALUMINIUM TRAY of palak paneer. But sadly I was not super hungry. I wish someone would just follow me around with a food cart full of hot palak paneer, basmati rice and batura. And mango lassi.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 3:41 PM
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(It's a good thing none of them asked me about the rules of American football, because I would have had trouble. I just told them who the good guys were, which was easy because of the colors.)


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 3:42 PM
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I should have eaten less so I had more room for wine.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 4:28 PM
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Smearcase and I are at a big crazy dinner in Boston. I'm a bit overwhelmed by the people, so I'm checking comments.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 4:34 PM
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181: My comment is that you should stop checking comments and interact with your setting. It's good for you.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 4:39 PM
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Counterpoint: cling to the internet! It is the security blanket of modern adulthood.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 4:40 PM
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If you drink more, the strangers will be less overwhelming. Beware of Moby Hick's example--save room for the alcohol!


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 4:40 PM
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I had some kind of mysterious "cake" that contained a pie-like layer of cherries. Other things were unusually bland, for reasons.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 4:42 PM
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185: very suspicious. Perhaps your hosts hate America.


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 4:46 PM
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We have a brand new cousin, a freshly adopted Mexican lap dog, and our pre-schooler who is reluctant to let any attention focus on anyone but himself.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 4:49 PM
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My cousin's son who spent the first two years of his life making Oksar Matzerath-like screaming sounds finally has picked up a few recognizable words, though they're still screamed.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 4:53 PM
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Oksar s/b Oskar.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 4:54 PM
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Counterpoint: cling to the internet! It is the security blanket of modern adulthood.

Boy is it.

Let me tell you, though, I made both a beautiful tart (apple-pear) and a beautiful pie.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 5:23 PM
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181: I'm in Boston, too. I actually thought about emailing Tweety and Blume, but then I realized that I'm bad company at the best of times, and these are not the best of times.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 5:39 PM
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191: don't be stupid; we're easily fooled.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 5:59 PM
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I am at a big crazy dinner that has turned into a sing-a-long, and I'm hiding in the bathroom and plotting how to get more cognac.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 6:04 PM
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I just got home from dinner with my parents and brother, hosted by a friend of the family. It was a small gathering and rather tame, except when my parents started to joke about their sex life. I hasten to add: there was no alcohol served.

Tomorrow night I'm playing a sort of reunion rock show, which should be fun, since lots of friends and acquaintances are in town and will be plenty sick of their families by then.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 6:13 PM
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Shorter 194.2: I'm gettin' some tomorrow night.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 6:38 PM
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177 reminds me of the time I attempted to recreate Thanksgiving for friends in Germany using a toaster oven and a hot plate. Yes, I did make turkey. They were kind to indulge me.

This year, Rory mad her first cheesecake which she served with a pomegranate cranberry sace. Utterly amazing. My pumpkin pie, in contrast, kind of meh.


Posted by: di kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 6:50 PM
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My pumpkin pie, in contrast, kind of meh

IYKWIM.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 7:05 PM
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Lee and I didn't bicker too much (because she's offended my mother scheduled Thanksgiving dinner for 5ish, which is unacceptably late) but Mara was great. I've added a photo of her making rolls with me to the pool.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 7:19 PM
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no alcohol, no thanks.

The restaurant thing worked out pretty well. Great food, great wine, no dishes to do.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 7:44 PM
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I don't think I ate as much as I usually do, but it's hard to remember, because I definitely drank plenty.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 7:50 PM
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I am at a big crazy dinner that has turned into a sing-a-long

Fabulous mandolin and guitar players. My sister (her first time at a Tweety family holiday gathering) leaned over to me and said, 'This is so weird. It's like a movie or something.'

I led a shoo-bop version of 'Just a Closer Walk With Thee.'


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 7:53 PM
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Restaurant was pretty good but not amazing, and had a couple of disappointing moments. Spent the rest of the evening hanging out with the family, which turned into a semi-intervention session of trying to convince my grandmother (whose apartment we were in) to give up driving, for everyone's safety. Now back home and plotting another drink.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:05 PM
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202: if you have walnut-infused cognac on hand, try a Nutty Monk!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:07 PM
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I would have killed for cognac today.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:08 PM
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I think I have pear and vanilla cognacs on hand, but no walnut. I can totally mix them up with herbal liqueurs and bitters, though. Peary Monk?


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:11 PM
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I'm just going with the wine that was open from last night.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:16 PM
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There we go. Pear cognac with maple bitters.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:17 PM
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203: What do you need if you want to try a Monkey Nut?


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:17 PM
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208: A jury of its Monkey Nut peers.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:19 PM
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My brother in law cures his own olives. To say nothing of chocolate ganache tart. Damn.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:23 PM
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Becks style. Best meal I've made in months. Leg of lamb with gratin dauphinois. A vague recipe, cause, just because.

Took semi-boned butt gigot, boned it. Made a marinade with tawny port, a few crushed garlic cloves, a generous dose of salt and pepper, and two crushed juniper berries, allowed it too absorb the flavor for a couple hours. Then marinated it for several hours, took it out, let it sit for a few hours. In the meantime prepared a gratin. Very thin sliced new red bliss potatoes (1-2mm), layered tightly on a buttered baking pan, a small amount of that truffled Italian sheep cheese plus garlic, salt and pepper on the first layer, then same on the second layer but substituting large amounts of gruyere for the the truffle cheese, then a third layer with nothing but a good dose of raclette. Pre-bake at low temp, let cool.

Take a big batch of spinach, wilt, cool, squash out water. mix with pungent fresh goat cheese and a small amount of the truffle cheese. Wrap in a double layer of raw radicchio. Insert into middle of deboned gigot and wrap meat around, then tie up, then wrap everything in a single layer of cheese cloth and tie up again. Roast till medium rare. Take out, let cool, turn up the oven to broil, and hit the gratin til its browning. Take out, wait a bit, start eating. So fucking good.

Too bad the wine wasn't up to it. Should have opened one of my nice ones. The Joel Gott Cab was perfectly decent at the price (though only after about three hours in a decanter, before that insipid alcoholic grape juice), but completely overwhelmed by the food. Oh well, the wine will still be all gone by the time I go to sleep. Also, Noval Black. Excellent cheap port.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:31 PM
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210: What's the cure for chocolate ganache tart?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:36 PM
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212: The counterintuitive fix is to go back for seconds. This cure was written about somewhat famously in The Black Eyed Peas' hit song, "Let's Get Re-Tarted."


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:39 PM
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I cure my own hangovers.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:43 PM
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I think I have pear and vanilla cognacs on hand, but no walnut.

None of this makes any sense to me.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:53 PM
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211: Sounds delicious, wine aside. I've got a beautiful piece of pork butt from these guys that I'm looking forward to doing my make-up-for-a-restaurant-Thanksgiving cooking with sometime this weekend.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 8:59 PM
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201: My dad and his wife do Thanksgiving at their friend's place out in the hill country. Said friend has two grand pianos in his living room, and several pianists (including one composer) plus a singer-songwriter are regular guests, so Thanksgiving evening usually turns into an impromptu recital. It's awesome.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 9:03 PM
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None of this makes any sense to me.

Because even apart from the infusions, you'd have Armagnac instead?


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 9:06 PM
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217: I like to tell people that it is not a "recital" if "i" am not there, but nobody ever gets it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 9:16 PM
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How are you planning on preparing it? With good quality pork roasts I'm a big fan of Marcella Hazan's pork with milk roast, tarted up with some garlic, bay and sometimes a little bit of rosemary or thyme. Easy and very good. I was thinking of opening up that Barbaresco you recommended once. Ended up figuring I'd already spent a fortune on the lamb and cheese, and I'd do an affordable wine. Wrong choice.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 9:18 PM
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I was also thinking Hazan, but her braise with porcini and juniper berries, which is freaking delicious.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 9:40 PM
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I got dragged out to a funk dance party at a bar. It's kinda lame.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 10:17 PM
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I seem to have had quite a bit of kirsch.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 10:28 PM
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Oh, awesome. I just helped talk down a fight. Fuckin' dudes.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 10:54 PM
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We had a beautiful time here, with way too much food followed by lots of Colombian rum and dancing. You'd think the dancing would be a bad idea given all the food but no. It was exactly the thing.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 11-25-10 11:34 PM
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200 gets it exactly right.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 1:22 AM
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Took semi-boned butt gigot, boned it.
IYKWIM.


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 2:58 AM
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I'm sorry the beauty of this timing will be lost on you lot.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 5:54 AM
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re 158 & john stossel

I was shocked when I saw that on tpm. I didn't think the right could get away with admitting a communitarian impulse in the country's founding. I thought it was supposed to be god, guns & greed from the gitgo.


Posted by: spaz | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 7:00 AM
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I thought it was supposed to be god, guns & greed from the gitgo.

"Get 'n Go" is a local gas station chain, but they don't sell guns.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 7:42 AM
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Okay, hands up: who likes me?

You guys are the best.


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 7:58 AM
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Sadly, despite the presence of 2 Indian grad students, and 1 2nd-generation Indian post-doc, there was no Indian food a Thanksgiving. There was excellent trad American food though, so that was okay. Drank just the right amount. Had to stay late so that a perpetually-late friend from out of town could be glad-handed.

Just violated the letter, if not the spirit, of Buy Nothing Day (I hate Adbusters anyhow), buy buying one of the door-buster specials at my local family-owned hardware store. Said store not only sponsors many community events, and hires lots of people of color, some in management positions, but also gives money to my employer. So I don't feel bad about buying stuff today at all. Also, it was DEAD when I came in -- only 2 other customers and lots of employees standing around looking bored. Oh well.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 8:19 AM
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Can I get a hug and maybe a juice box?

You guys are the best.


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 8:25 AM
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Sadly, despite the presence of 2 Indian grad students, and 1 2nd-generation Indian post-doc, there was no Indian food a Thanksgiving.

Our sweet potatoes with curry and coconut milk were made with Indian curry, because my m-i-l accidentally bought that kind instead of the Thai kind. They turned out okay.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 10:32 AM
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Because even apart from the infusions, you'd have Armagnac instead?

Oh, I wasn't aware they were infusions.

Our thanksgiving was fantastic: really good turkey (17.5 pounds cooked in 3.5 hours—ask me how!), brussels sprouts w/ bacon and apples, creamed corn w/ leeks and shiitakes, apple-fennel-sausage stuffing, vegetarian stuffing, roasted sweet potatoes, salad, mashed potatoes, maybe some other stuff, pumpkin cheesecake, apple & pear tart, multi-berry (cran, blue, black, rasp, straw) pie, lots of rum-laden cider.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 10:39 AM
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17.5 pounds cooked in 3.5 hours--ask me how!

How?

Also: how long does one deep fry a turkey? An increasing number of friends are posting photos of deep-fried turkey shenanigans. Also, does one brine a turkey that's to be deep-fried? Also, why do I of all people care? (Not sure, but I do.)


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 10:58 AM
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Also: how long does one deep fry a turkey?

About 45 minutes. Every conversation I've ever had about deep-fried turkey has included that fact; in fact I've heard more about how wonderful it is that it cooks quickly than about how it tastes.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 11:01 AM
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I've heard more about how wonderful it is that it cooks quickly than about how it tastes

All the friends' photos I've seen suggest it's a caveman-bonding exercise, involving beer drinking, cigar smoking, and, I'm imagining, Tim Allen-style grunting. But the crispy birds look pretty.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 11:06 AM
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I found in my MIL's kitchen a terrifically sharp knife, mirabile dictu, but also a lame meat thermometer that tricked me into slightly overcooking a duck. And I broke the gravy. But otherwise, pretty good.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 11:26 AM
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||

http://twitter.com/EdinUniAntiCuts

Natilo might appreciate the list of 'victories'.

>


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 11:30 AM
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Several people I know who have stories of deep frying turkeys also have stories of setting the front lawn on fire.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 11:43 AM
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Several people I know who have stories of deep frying turkeys also have stories of setting the front lawn on fire.

See here, if you haven't already.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 12:00 PM
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Or here if you're not using a phone.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 12:05 PM
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Back lawn in my B-I-L's case, but it wasn't serious, and I was impressed at how good the bird tasted. Not the greasy mess I had expected.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 12:05 PM
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Also this.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 12:06 PM
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Turkey fryer fires are for pansies.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 12:07 PM
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I passed up (non-family-based) Thanksgiving invitations and did nothing yesterday - ostensibly to work on my many, many school projects, but also really not in the mood.

Turkey fryers were my first thought when I saw a fire truck wailing down the road. Are those things really not regulated? I'm amazed how shoddily-made they seem in all the videos - if I were a state legislator I'd want to do something about it.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 1:22 PM
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The fried turkey can be pretty dang good.


Posted by: Annelid Gustator | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 1:25 PM
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247.2: Underwriter's Labs looked at them with an eye to seeing which were safe enough to gain UL certification, and eventually decided none of them were.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 1:27 PM
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249: Right, but does that have any practical impact?

I've read there have been a number of product liability suits (no details), and Consumer Reports mentions safer versions coming out, so maybe the situation is slowly correcting itself, but who knows.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 1:32 PM
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Had dinner out at The Foundry with my son and daughter-in-law. Strangely enough, it was a very serene evening. Some sadness of course, but there was no angst about travel, cooking, crazy relatives, etc. Just the three of us sharing memories of the fourth.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 2:04 PM
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251: That's good to hear. And I'm glad you didn't have to host Tgiving or something that was going to make work for you.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 2:48 PM
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240: Yes, I am crying tears of joy about this one:

Victory no.3: Edinburgh Central Mosque Kitchen has promised to feed us over the weekend! #solidarity


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 3:33 PM
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251: I'm glad you had a good dinner. The toast last night was to absent friends, and there are too damn many of them this Thanksgiving.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 3:34 PM
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||
So, sad as it may be to admit, if I have a Craftsman 3/8" 6.0 volt cordless drill from the mid-1990s, and I've lost the charger (and the battery is probably no good at this point anyway), I'm just going to have to throw it away, even though it was my very first drill, right?
||>


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 4:37 PM
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You could recycle it. And when you do, remind yourself that Craftsman cordless tools are crap, and say to yourself, "Today I am a man."


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 5:03 PM
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255: Probably at least worth a phone call to Craftsman. I'm sure they have a parts department, even if it's a long shot for a part from the '90s.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 5:06 PM
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257: The last time I looked, a new charger was the same price as the equivalent new drill kit.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 5:15 PM
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258: Can you really put a price tag on nostalgia? I submit that you cannot.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 5:17 PM
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You know, back when I was a kid, you could get two nostalgias for a quarter.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 5:21 PM
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Glad you had a good Thanksgiving, Biohazard. All the best to you and your family.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 5:36 PM
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Biohazard, that's good to hear; in a way, it might be better to have friends/family around as a matter of course due to the holidays - keeps you from hunkering down and going to ground, as it were, and ... not sure how to finish the sentence. "Serene" sounds good, in any case.

Here the gathering with the family of a friend that I attend every couple of years was just as expected: the teenaged daughters progress inexorably through their teenaged-girlhood (teenaged girls can be unbearable, I'm afraid, with the flipping of the hair and the rolling of the eyes and the projection of sexiness, in a testing .. testing .. testing this out, I am awesome, amirite? kind of way). People seem kind of tired in general, though.

The experimental whole-wheat-flour apple nut bread went over well. And. I was sent home with an entire cooked turkey, currently occupying an entire shelf of the fridge. Our hostess cooked two, the second untouched.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:09 PM
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General shout-out, then: Any thoughts or tips on what to do with an entire turkey? Aside from turkey sandwiches, turkey soup (what, turkey vegetable soup; turkey rice soup), and presumably freezing some slabs of breast meat.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:25 PM
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A gourmet family friend, at whose house I spent a Thanksgiving weekend, grilled some slabs in a pan the next morning with an off-the-cuff roux.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:29 PM
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We have made a bitchin' turkey chili a couple of times now.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:35 PM
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Ahh, here it is.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:35 PM
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It tastes pretty much gross with ground turkey from the supermarket, but very excellent with leftover roast turkey.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:36 PM
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Any thoughts or tips on what to do with an entire turkey?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:37 PM
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I recommend this chili recipe quite highly. Only with leftover roasted turkey, though! It's quite bland and awful with ground turkey.

You might want to double the number of chipotles and add a dash of cayenne if you like things on the spicier side; I don't find the recipe at all hot as is.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:39 PM
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(You bastard! That's MY recipe!)


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:39 PM
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Pan-grilled slabs sounds interesting.

an off-the-cuff roux

That would be the key: what kind of roux? It comes as no surprise if I say that turkey tends to be motherfucking dry and needs some gravy or broth or marinade. And fat. So ....

Hm. What can I do with the dried shiitake mushrooms I have? Toward communion with the turkey? Hm.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:41 PM
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Turkey pie (pot pie or British-style meat pie), turkey pasty, turkey empanadas, turkey ravioli, turkey risotto, turkey pizza, turkey tacos, stir-fries, curries, whatever. Flavor-neutral hunks of protein are versatile.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:41 PM
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270: I cooked it first!

Admittedly, that was because you told me to, handed me the recipe, and took me shopping for the ingredients.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:42 PM
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Oh, excellent! Turkey chili will happen. Thanks.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:43 PM
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That would be the key: what kind of roux? It comes as no surprise if I say that turkey tends to be motherfucking dry and needs some gravy or broth or marinade. And fat. So ....

Can't help you there much. It was exceedingly simple (it was a noble act on his part to forestall my attempt to stick some leftover turkey in the microwave). I think the main ingredients might have just been butter and flour, though probably high-quality.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:45 PM
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272: And thanks, Jesus. My cooking-thinking isn't really actively engaged for meat, but of course you're right. I lurve pot pie, could easily see turkey burritos or similar.

Obviously I'm not going to be churning these things out like crazy for the next two weeks -- I assume I can just cut slabs and put them in freezer baggies and that's fine for freezing, right? I am not used to this.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:47 PM
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How?

Half a pound of compound butter, 3 hours at 400, 30 minutes at 375, and the clever use of foil and cheesecloth.

(This method actually began life as a mistake—it was only supposed to be at 400 for a little bit—but it yielded excellent results.)


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:51 PM
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I cooked a 30 pound turkey in less than seven hours. Does that count for anything?

It would have been exceptionally delicious if I had taken it out of the oven about 10-12 minutes sooner (you have to watch convection ovens like a hawk, boy) but it was still very good.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:54 PM
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A thirty-pound turkey is surely a freak of nature and/or selective breeding.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 6:56 PM
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It was definitely enormous; the largest that could be ordered by the butcher. It was also certainly overkill (we only ate like half of it) but hey, more turkey chili. It wasn't my idea to get the giant-est turkey we could, but cooking it well was an interesting challenge.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 7:02 PM
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275: I think the main ingredients might have just been butter and flour

Yeah, that's a roux, a base; generally you add liquids and other things (herbs, say), because a roux all by itself would be a paste, as far as I understand. It's the nature of the added liquids that's the key. I'd be putting the turkey pot pie in a roux-based sauce, maybe with a mushroom stock for the liquid. Etc.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 7:05 PM
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Yeah, my memory has probably slipped something in there.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 7:12 PM
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the giant-est turkey

Is everybody doing EST again? I thought it was denounced as a cult.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 7:17 PM
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Who wants a body massage?


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 8:21 PM
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If they also gave you leftover mashed potatoes, turkey shepherd's pie.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 8:43 PM
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a roux all by itself would be a paste, as far as I understand

Yes, it is. The two variables in roux are a) cooking time and b) fat type.

P.S.: If you attempt to make a roux on an electric stove you will regret the experience.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 8:59 PM
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You could make a broth out of some of the carcass, freeze it and use it for all the things which need broth.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 9:03 PM
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I rue the day I got involved with that turkey.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 9:07 PM
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287: Even I made hot turkey water today.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 9:07 PM
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286.last: I didn't have trouble.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 9:10 PM
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290: Right there in River City.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 9:12 PM
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If you attempt to make a roux on an electric stove you will regret the experience.

It can be done. Just takes close attention.

287: I know, and that's certainly what my mother taught me, but I'm a mostly-vegetarian as it is. The few times in recent years I've used chicken broth for a soup it kind of grossed me out (too fatty). Sorry -- I know this is difficult to comprehend for real cooks, but I have trouble in this area.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 9:14 PM
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If you attempt to make a paper airplane on an electric stove you will regret the experience, but probably not as much as if you attempted on a gas stove.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 9:27 PM
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||

Today (well, yesterday at this point) would have been my little sister's 35th birthday. 10 years ago, she became one of the more than 30,000 people a year who commit suicide in the US. Please take a little time to learn about the warning signs and what you may be able to do to help. If you're feeling suicidal yourself, know that there are people who want you to turn to them. And everyone here has this community on top of all the other people who care about them.

|>


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-26-10 11:13 PM
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I'm sorry


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 12:41 AM
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re: 286

I make roux all the time on an electric cooker. As parsimon says you just need to pay attention and remember not to turn the heat up too high [to get the pan up to temperature quicker] because you don't have the ability to turn it back down quickly.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 12:51 AM
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I went for a 15 minute walk and I still can't feel anything in my toes, except a good deal of pain.


Posted by: David | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 7:08 AM
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The few times in recent years I've used chicken broth for a soup it kind of grossed me out (too fatty)

Whenever I make a meat stock, I chill it before use so I can scrape the inch of congealed fat off the top. What's left is pretty gelatinous, though, which might have a sort of "fatty" mouth feel for your tastes.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 7:18 AM
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Important message, Mr. B. Thanks for reminding us. Lots of good points at that linj.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 7:37 AM
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I'm terribly sorry about your sister, Mr. B. My wife's brother killed himself 11 years ago next week. It still seems impossible that he's gone: we wait for phone calls on birthdays and whatnot. Anyway, I hope you can find some time to grieve today and that you're okay.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 8:12 AM
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It was about 11 years ago that a friend of mine disappeared. We looked everywhere. Thankfully, he turned up a month later, having spent the intervening time in a homeless shelter, having a breakdown. He's doing really well now, the last time I heard.

I've been in a pretty bad place recently, but I've been getting a lot of support -- doctor, psychologist, friends -- so I'm pretty sure I'm going to come through it okay. Things seem awfully bleak and hopeless though.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 8:37 AM
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Hang in there, Nat. As Mr. Blandings notes: "And everyone here has this community on top of all the other people who care about them." God knows this community got me through some pretty dark times. We're here for you in whatever ways we can.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 8:42 AM
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301/302: There certainly seems to be more than enough gloom going around this holiday season.

Things seem awfully bleak and hopeless though.

What mostly gets me through those is thinking "I am NOT going to let X (fill in whatever is required for X) win!" and hearing/feeling the cat's purring.

And not cleaning any of the guns during a low.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 9:20 AM
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I'm listening to lightweight hip-hop and reading this story about my cousin's NGO:
http://smallfarmersjournal.com/congo-farm-project-from-starvation-to-sustainability

If political prisoners and people in war zones can get through today, I can too.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 9:29 AM
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304: Exactly so. Self-applied cognitive therapy is a great tool to have handy, IMX.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 9:46 AM
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It was seven years ago last month that my brother took his life, and about 13 years ago that we lost the son of close family friends. As a result, I can't help getting involved if people start making checking out noises, even if I don't know them that well. If you're feeling lonely this time of year, force yourself to reach out to others. You'd be surprised how happy they'll be for you to do so and how often they can be clueless as to how to reach out to you themselves. Cats and dogs are also good.

That's a nice link Nat, thanks. Always good to see folks like your cousin doing good community-based work.


Posted by: Jimmy Pongo | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 9:51 AM
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Hey, speaking of awesome communities doing cool shit, I was at a benefit event last night that raised $1500+ towards a friend's outstanding medical bills. (Said friend doesn't have health coverage and had a scare of sorts that turned out to be nothing serious but in the course of determining that fact the hospitals ran up several grand in tests.)

Good friends are fantastic, and the health-care system blows.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 9:53 AM
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304.last: True, but don't minimize your own struggles either. When you hurt, you hurt -- even if your trials seem small in the grand scheme of things. IMX, it can be too easy to get down on yourself about being depressed over things you think are unworthy of depression.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 10:44 AM
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I guess the thing that's been really discomfiting me (and I did talk to my psychologist about this last Monday), is that with the death of my friends' baby, it's been hard for me to acknowledge how much of a blow it was to me, personally. Obviously, theirs is the greater sorrow, but I've been very sad too, for all the loss to myself. I really wanted to get to know that kid, see him grow up, read to him, play LEGOs with him, see movies, go to the Science Museum, all that kind of stuff. I really wanted to be there for him and support him when he was in need and take comfort from him when I was feeling low. I really like babies and children a lot, and he was going to be someone that I could be really close to for the rest of my life. And then it wound up just being for the rest of his. And I didn't even get to meet him, because I thought I'd be seeing him all the time. On the one hand, he knew only love and comfort for his brief life, but on the other hand, none of that was from me, and it makes me very sad indeed. Now he's been dead four times as long as he was alive. It's just not fair.

***

Now I should stop being so maudlin and go out and have lunch at a favorite restaurant with someone who loves me.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 11:08 AM
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Condolences to everyone grieving loss, however recent or remote. The holiday season can be rough, as you know, so take care of yourselves.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 11:26 AM
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I've been in a (non-suicidal) funk for a few months due to a persistently shitty life situation, and I find that sometimes I get hypnotized by watching all the "It Gets Better" videos and pretending they're about spending a decade of your life adjuncting.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 11:35 AM
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it can be too easy to get down on yourself about being depressed over things you think are unworthy of depression.

Yeah. Self-criticism of one's moods is a nasty trap, as are comparisions of emotional suffering.

Thinking some about examples of what's survivable isn't a waste though. "They did it, so can I" can be a valuable prod.

The DE's kid is hurting bad now that some of the numbness is wearing off. His contemporaries are telling stories of how they got through their various losses, and he's also looking at me as an example. He's young, and needs to learn to deal with this sort of thing, for sure there's going to be many more in his future.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 12:17 PM
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It really is all a one day at a time kind of thing. You don't need to get through the next ten years all at once. Just the next five minutes. And then the next five after that.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 12:28 PM
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Natilo, just wanted to add that I'm one who's had my life improved by your small part in it. I'm glad you're pushing on. Di speaks a lot of truth.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 1:36 PM
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312 is wise. You can't beat yourself up for somehow feeling worse than you're entitled to -- you feel the way you feel, and you need to take care of yourself on that basis. On the other hand, knowing that other people have made it through the situation you're in can only help.

Anyway, Blandings, Biohazard, Natilo, it makes me happy having all of you around here. Anything I can ever do to support you when you're grieving, just ask.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-27-10 4:12 PM
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