My first lover gave me a list of her previous 38 lovers, ranked, with explanations for the ranking. I was number 35.
One by one, they were all becoming shades. Better pass boldly into that other world, in the full glory of some passion, than fade and wither dismally with age. He thought of how she who lay beside him had locked in her heart for so many years that image of her lover's eyes when he had told her that he did not wish to live.Generous tears filled Gabriel's eyes. He had never felt like that himself towards any woman, but he knew that such a feeling must be love. The tears gathered more thickly in his eyes and in the partial darkness he imagined he saw the form of a young man standing under a dripping tree. Other forms were near. His soul had approached that region where dwell the vast hosts of the dead. He was conscious of, but could not apprehend, their wayward and flickering existence. His own identity was fading out into a grey impalpable world: the solid world itself, which these dead had one time reared and lived in, was dissolving and dwindling.
Don't ask, don't tell.
I'm not sure if the question is "Is it okay to ask for a dating history if one wasn't volunteered" or "Is there an obligation of affirmative full disclosure?"
The error is in hoping that there's a right way to handle this. And inexperience is as uncomfortable to tell about as experience.
My guess is that while the honesty and openness rule may work for some people (if both partners are completely comfortable with their past) as a general rule it does more harm than good.
Since I've been back in Wobegon I've met three 0r more couples I knew in HS who fell in love, dropped out of school, and lived happily ever after. That was how it was done on the veldt, I think.
And never ever ask about dogs or stallions
not do you have an affirmative duty to volunteer, but is it the sort of thing you expect to talk about? what if you're asked but demur? or vice versa? it just seems as if it'd be a different set of questions to ask your new 40-year-old boyfriend than you did your college boyfriend. and then some people do demand every little detail; I think this is a sign you should break up with them right away, since they're actually maniacally jealous. not a live issue for me, obviously, but some of the unfoggedtariat may be both single and of un certain age, nu?
3. please stop that, flippanter. throw a mug against the wall, or something.
A problem is that you can't tell about the jealousy. I'm nosy, and I like knowing people's stories, but not particularly jealous. If I were single and dating I'd be fishing for history out of curiosity and interest in the person I was dating, and I'd hate for that to come across as scary
My general thinking is that it's all right to ask anything, not all right to demand answers, and that there's no general requirement for full disclosure even if asked.
7: The Flip-cave is too small to get a real pitching motion going.
People here in Wobegon are completely oblivious to the idea that some people might not to want to answer certain questions. A new neighbor moved in while back, and in the friendliest way my mother (who was not at all judgmental) walked right over and interrogated him about his whole past life. He was taken aback at first but figured things out later.
8.1: Of course, the best way for it to not come across as scary is for it to not actually be scary. It might be wise for Presidential Pseudonym's new paramour to avoid disclosure for awhile.
This doesn't go away as you get older
Sure it does, or it can. Older people who are jealous about this stuff are properly regarded with suspicion. One suspicion: That Presidential Pseudonym* is overly controlling. Another: That PP is projecting and has something in his or her past that's going to cause trouble in a new relationship.
*meaning someone who thinks/behaves in the fashion that PP describes. I pass no judgment on PP personally.
9 is the lowest-hanging fruit that ever hanged.
The first two dates you have an affirmative responsibility not to mention any exes, after that the right behavior is to mention exes exactly when you would otherwise mention them. If there's a story about an ex that you'd tell a friend in that circumstance, don't hold it back. That way exes get naturally mentioned in proportion to how important they are to you and how long you've been dating the new person.
Speaking of saved letters in backs of closets, when (if ever) is the right time to get rid of those?
When I was moving across the country (the week after we got married, and the week before we moved across the country) I realized doing the final check of my room that I'd forgotten to pack the small box of stuff under my bed from my haunting ex. The car was really really full at this point, and we were running late. Somehow the combination of the fullness of the car, and the page-turning-ness of the moment, and the getting married, I threw the whole thing in the dumpster... If it weren't for that combination of circumstances I doubt I would ever have managed to throw it away.
Sure it does, or it can. Older people who are jealous about this stuff are properly regarded with suspicion.
True, but how much it does partly depends on their point of departure. If you believed at the age of 20 that how your partner led their life before they committed to you was any of your goddam business* and nobody set you straight, then you may carry this attitude into your golden days, with the corners knocked off a bit by the inevitability of being acquainted with partner's previous spouse. But it makes you a poorer proposition for any adult you may fetch up with.
*Idle curiosity excepted, as per LB.
I'd be similar to LB - degree of curiosity but no jealousy. The exception would be if the prospectively serious gf had a history of often cheating in closed relationships. That would probably make me want out.
The flip side of the question is what do you disclose. What if an old relationships left you with nasty psychological baggage? Or if your closest friend just happens to be an ex from twenty plus years ago - do you mention she's an ex or just lie by omission?
If you don't mention that you have a close friend who was an ex, I'm fairly certain that would erode a great deal of trust when it comes out.
is to mention exes exactly when you would otherwise mention them
Well, you might tell a platonic friend that you'll never get over someone, or that you think of them every day, but would you tell a new partner?
That way exes get naturally mentioned in proportion to how important they are to you
You say that like you're not trying to keep from your new squeeze the identity of the ex you're really hung up on.
Depends on how recently they dated and how long they dated. If they dated for two weeks in 9th grade and she's 28 now, that wouldn't be a trust eroder. It's hard to remember who of my high school set dated whom for two weeks at some point.
Hrm, I have few enough exes that there's no real way to hide that. I suppose its different for people with more successful dating careers.
I've been told that if your exes were all bitches it's important not to say so, sort of like complaining about your old boss when you apply for a new job.
17 True. And I know I'd feel that way. On the other hand disclosing it immediately sets up up a potential break up. Some people aren't willing to accept a friendship between their gf/bf and one of their exes, especially not a close one, and there is no way I'd be willing to give it up. (I wouldn't have a problem with it on the part of a gf, but that's not exactly a universal sentiment)
You have an obligation to disclose the big structural facts of your past, and you are allowed to sugarcoat things, and you are not obligated to disclose any sexual details of stuff with past partners.
Beyond that, the curiosity of the new partner and whether or not it's a fun conversation for both, should dictate.
Jammies and I do not know that much about each other's past relationships. (Jealousy was one of the presenting symptoms that drove me to therapy; the other being loneliness. Anyway, I'm barely jealous compared to what I used to be, but there's enough bodily memory of the sensation to leave me with zero curiosity.) Jammies knows more about my past relationships than I do his, mostly because they come up here and on my personal blog. I have trouble sharing stuff that would make me jealous to hear it. I think he's basically indifferent.
What if an old relationships left you with nasty psychological baggage?
You should disclose that to distract attention from all of your regular psychological baggage and general personality. Like when an airplane shoots chaff to avoid being hit by a missile.
21 In this case a relatively short but fairly serious relationship when I was in college with a person who I was close to since early childhood and who, after a bit of post break up tension, reverted to close platonic friend afterwards.
22: Well, once you get into the low three figures...
(No, I'm just joking. My wife and I have been together too long for the OP question to be of much more than purely theoretical interest, thank God.)
Anyway, I'm barely jealous compared to what I used to be, but there's enough bodily memory of the sensation to leave me with zero curiosity.
Right. This. A person maybe can't get rid of unhelpful thoughts, but can at least avoid triggers.
20 years ago my brother had a brief and unsatisfying relationship with someone who was already an old friend. They went back to being good friends and married other people. Now he's divorcing and they're in touch. Whether the husband should be worried I have no idea.
She's sort of a freak in that she's been model-beautiful all her life, even at 50, without working at it as far as I can tell, or caring very much. She acts like an ordinary-looking woman who's OK with being ordinary-looking, except that she's gorgeous. To my knowledge she never had any interest in being the center of attention, even though she often was.
without working at it as far as I can tell
I've discovered that women use all kinds of strategies to keep up appearances and I can't even imagine how I would do all the work for that. Some women keep nice teeth by going to extremes like flossing every single day. Others will replace a whole shirt just because of one little stain that doesn't even show if you have a coat on. Some even go so far as to not wear the same clothes for three days in a row.
You are obligated to disclose anything related to STDs, like whether you've had a bunch of receptive anal sex. Given that this disclosure is difficult enough, if you've got something like it to tell, you might as well go ahead and admit that you were really into the guy who used to pound your butt.
Not knowing about my partner's relationship past is, like, unfathomable to me. How can you truly understand a person without understanding the shit they've gone through before?
Further to 22, it occurs to me that (perhaps above a certain minimum, and certain values of 'successful') a successful dating career is inversely related to the number of exes.
I am like LB in 8. I want to know it all, but just because I am horrifically curious. I especially like hearing the stories of how people met and got together. Mostly because those kinds of stories are exciting stories that you can voyeuristically live through...
for certain values of 'successful'
Assuming one ends up with someone, of course.
37: Assuming one doesn't want to be alone.
38 explains the fact that you never see Emerson and Moby Hick in the same room.
I am not jealous and don't particularly care about who a partner has slept with in the past unless s/he begins to display disturbing behavior or expectations. But I am not a good measure of what is or is not done in relationships. It's just hard for me to imagine two adults sitting down and having a conversation like, "...and then for two weeks I thought I was going to marry my friend Becky, but later I ended up dating Marsha instead, but only for three months because she wanted kids, and then in 2006..."
I am not that jealous. Neither is BR. I am too close to several of the women that I've dated for me to be with someone who is jealous.
Some details have come up at various times. But, I think it is only a problem if you expect the person is someone different from the details that you discover or are told.
By my age, each person has a significant past.
You should disclose that to distract attention from all of your regular psychological baggage and general personality. Like when an airplane shoots chaff to avoid being hit by a missile.
I cannot recommend this strategy, although I admire the simile. (Technically, is chaff "shot" or "released"? Maybe, apropos, "dropped" or "dumped"?)
What if an old relationships left you with nasty psychological baggage?
It really depends on so much. I had an ex I was a wreck about for years and years. As of 4-5 years ago, I think it might have been a good reason for someone not to want to date me, had they known the extent of it.
During that time, I had a relationship that was good in lots of ways but didn't go anywhere, and of course I'll never know for sure whether it just wasn't the right relationship or whether it fizzled, at least in part, because I hadn't yet stopped talking to the ex and gotten the fuck over it. I think it was mostly the former.
two adults sitting down and having a conversation like, "...and then for two weeks I thought I was going to marry my friend Becky, but later I ended up dating Marsha instead, but only for three months because she wanted kids, and then in 2006..."
This is fucking hilarious.
13 and 32 get it right (the specific and definite "The first two dates" rule rubs me the wrong way, but, details, whatever): STDs aside, you should keep quiet about it early on for everyone's sake, but once the relationship is serious just mention anecdotes or statistics of past relationships as they come up in conversation.
This post makes me wonder if it's a coincidence that my girlfriend and I have* exactly the same number of previous partners. There's a big age gap, fairly big difference in personal history**, seems to be a big difference in personal approaches towards sex, but as for number of people we have had sex with, it's the same, AFAIK. Weird. But then again, people notice coincidences whether they're meaningful or not, so who knows.
* If I remember correctly; I'm not 100 percent sure just because it hasn't come up in a while. But I think we do.
** OK, sure, we're both WASP yuppie atheist geeks, but anyone I have a second date with is likely to be at least three of those. We have different education levels, very different family relationships, different careers, etc.
45: Have sex with one other person. If she leaves you, it's because you no longer have the same number of partners.
So, idle question intended to figure out how strange I am. Anyone else perform a certain amount of kabuki jealousy with the intent of being complimentary and invested in one's partner? Buck has a warm and flirty relationship with a woman who works for him doing ad sales; she's married, she's in California, this is in no way a problem. But I do say the occasional thing along the lines of "Of course, if she's ever in the same state you're in, I'm going to have to speak firmly to her about keeping her hands to herself if she wants to still have the same number of fingers." I mean, the intent is schtick, to convey both that Buck's attractive enough that of course she'd be hitting on him, and that I'm invested enough that this would really piss me off. But occasionally I worry that this is schtick that makes me sound psycho rather than affectionate. (Note: Buck unambiguously likes it and takes it the right way; I'm just wondering how strange we are.)
Apart from safety or like really scary outliers, I don't understand how number matters. People who have been in long relationships have lower numbers of past lovers. They also are probably more likely to have emotional baggage from their emotionally complicated past relationships. If this conversation is really about jealousy about skill (If she's had five partners, that's OK, but ten means one of them might have been better at something than I am!), they're still in college, right?
I'm just wondering how strange we are.
Most likely profoundly strange, but not due to anything in comment 47.
I don't understand how number matters
Slut.
A bit of psycho is necessary to be sexy at all.
48: I think it can be a proxy for "I don't want to date someone who finds non-long-term-relationship sex rewarding enough to do it often." Which isn't a position I endorse, but it's a coherent position.
You people and your happy, stable relationships shame and humiliate sicken me.
48
If this conversation is really about jealousy about skill (If she's had five partners, that's OK, but ten means one of them might have been better at something than I am!), they're still in college, right?
I agree that they'd be at the level of mental maturity expected of a college student, but I think we have ample evidence that that has little to do with peoples' age, education level or employment status.
As long as your partner is in the half plus 7 rule range, you shouldnt be jealous.
You are obligated to disclose anything related to STDs, like whether you've had a bunch of receptive anal sex.
Surely if you've been tested for things and it's been long enough that relevant things would have shown up, you don't have to disclose this? Or is there some long-lasting anal sex danger I don't know about?
Maybe Hep C? I'm not sure, but certainly HIV has a relatively long period before it might show up.
As long as your partner is in the half plus 7 rule range, you shouldnt be jealous.
Can't work for both of you.
Hmmm, 13 gets it exactly right with further explanation, if any is necessary, in 25. Problem solved with remarkable efficiency. Good work everyone.
47 -- I think this is totally normal and nice? It's even a little flattering, definitely harmless. But I am not exactly a credible source on successful marriage behavior.
Wasn't there a tv show -- and I am pretty sure it starred a very young Tea Leoni -- whose basic schtick was super hot chick with a long and vast history of fascinating lovers is now dating a nebbishy dude? So all of their conversations were along the lines of, He: "I hope I get that promotion at work!" She: "Well, when I was dating the Sultan of Brunei . . .".
60: Isn't some of Nicola Six's interaction with Keith Talent in London Fields along those lines?
I am in the happy position of not knowing my number. I know the general range it's in, and I can count it up easily enough if I sit down to think about it, but every time I do, I then forget the precise number pretty much immediately. That has to be psychological, right? I'm just happier without this number that is supposed to say something about me. And lord, I shudder at the thought of knowing that kind of statistic about a partner. I can altogether too well imaging myself fixating on it.
I cannot recommend this strategy, although I admire the simile. (Technically, is chaff "shot" or "released"? Maybe, apropos, "dropped" or "dumped"?)
Dehisced!
60: Sounds like Dharma and Greg, with Jenna Elfman in the Leoni role.
HIV has a relatively long period before it might show up
Just 3-6 months.
61: Yes! (Aw, Keef. He was always Robert Carlyle in my head.)
I love the story in 14. Circumstances arise such that preserving these remnants of the past would give them more meaning than they actually deserve, and so they get jettisoned. Perfect.
"Well, when I was dating the Sultan of Brunei I was technically not capable of giving consent".
I just looked it up. It was called "Flying Blind" and starred Tea Leoni and some dude who played Eddie Fisher in "The Liz Taylor Story."
66: Robert Carlyle s too thin. In my mind's eye, Keith is rather fat-faced.
re: 62
This is me, too. I think that's quite common. I can give a vague range.
I love to hear people's life stories, so I usually prompt for those. If the details start to be too much for me I'll say TMI. I've also been perfectly happy and unjealous hearing about past relationships, but then later (like a month later) the details start to bother me and I'll ask not to hear about it anymore.
So, based on my experience, there is no one right answer, and what is fine for me at one time can become a problem at another time.
The safest thing is to not mention exes at all, but then that limits intimacy and openness, so I say disclose as much as you and your partner can take but not any more than that.
57: Hep C is rarely transmitted sexually.
And with HIV, I don't know, asking their history is a roundabout way of taking care of yourself. Have safe sex at first and eventually get tested. I used to assume this was what everyone did, but I'm coming to assume it's primarily gay men who came out in the 90s. Do straight people use condoms to avoid STDs at all or do they just use them for birth control and, if there's another form of birth control being used, take care of HIV risk by asking if the person they're having sex with has had a lot of anal sex?
74.1: I only know from reading about Tommy Lee in the tabloids.
I think that the underlying issues, fidelity, jealousy, and control, can be discussed directly. Also money-- a good preamble for an initial meeting is an exchange of credit reports and psychological profiles.
OK, sorry. The thing about discussing the past is privacy; talking about an ex candidly means discussing the ex's behavior, history, confidences. I won't do this-- I'm happy enough to describe how I felt or feel, but don't like propagating even apparently neutral information about other people.
My Meyer-Briggs psychological profile is the diametrical opposite of Bill Clinton and Kathy Lee Gifford, and the same as Dwight Eisenhower and Jane Austen. Should I tell people?
No. That information should have gone to the grave with you.
47: My wife says this sort of thing to me occasionally, with the sort of schticky tone you describe, but in our case I'm not sure it's exactly kabuki - more like an exaggeration. Something like: I have no doubt that you wouldn't be interested in anything untoward, so you should just do whatever you are likely to want while feeling confident that it won't bother me, but you might note that it is theoretically possible to push the envelope even with behaviour that isn't statutorily actionable.
talking about an ex candidly means discussing the ex's behavior, history, confidences.
You should blur their face before you show the video, that's for certain.
Something like: I have no doubt that you wouldn't be interested in anything untoward, so you should just do whatever you are likely to want while feeling confident that it won't bother me, but you might note that it is theoretically possible to push the envelope even with behaviour that isn't statutorily actionable.
Is even banging two mistresses twice a day each "statutorily actionable"? No crime is being committed, and she could get a divorce just as easily with no particular inciting factor, nowadays.
55 prompted me to do the math and realize that Lee and I have finally passed the half plus seven barrier. Yay for us!
I know a ton about her exes and would be happy knowing more. I don't have any jealousy toward any of them, though I did push her to stop hanging out with the one who then behaved horribly to me (after having behaved horribly to Lee, too, and maybe I was holding that against her) but not with any of the others. I actually only pushed her not to invite that ex around me, but she ended up pretty much severing ties and I don't feel guilty about it.
I figure the intent of OOM's comment wasn't about literal statutes. More to indicate that lawyering about "I never actually touched her" would not be cool.
When I do it, I really do mean it as straight flattery, without a warning element. But I should check on what Buck's hearing.
But I should check on what Buck's hearing.
Put him in some earphones and have him raise the hand on the side of whichever ear is detecting jealousy.
Now that I am an old person, I've had the drama of several old boyfriends deciding in their late 30s/early 40s and immediately post-divorce that they were desperately in love with me and always have been. Oh, sure. It starts out mildly charming/flattering and then annoying when they start buying you first-class tickets to Macau or whatever. CA didn't love that. In any event, I am now aware enough of the phenomenon to stomp on that little zygote before any more cells can divide.
then annoying when they start buying you first-class tickets to Macau or whatever. CA didn't love that.
My reaction might be more "Free trip to Macau! You'll only be gone a week or so, right??"
Well you know, entrancing persons have their own little crosses to bear, Oudemia. It's not all just being weighted down with diamonds and pearls and drinking champagne out of slippers and wallowing in rose petals.
I only know from reading about Tommy Lee in the tabloids.
When you're dating Pam, you don't have to ask too many questions about past relationships.
90: And someone like Charlie Sheen must be strange to date for a whole variety of reasons. Among the least of these reasons is that, short of the destruction of western civilization, he can't really end his access to naked pictures of his exes.
a warning element
I guess it could be worth my adding that when my wife says these things it's all in good humour and that I find it charming. To the extent that it's a warning, it's to the effect that she could theoretically be made to feel perturbed, rather than of any stronger consequences.
74: My (het) experience is the same as yours. Safe sex (condoms for both STD prevention and contraception), get tested, maybe (if things last that long) ditch the condoms eventually.
I mention early on that the majority of my exes are close friends because it gets the jealousy issues out on the table up front and it's also a selling point for the right kind of person. The raunchier stuff can wait until later, but that's a fun conversation to have and usually ends in hot sex. Comparing notable events in ones' sexual history is hot as hell provided you don't have jealousy issues. There are things I've had minor jealousy issues with over history (as have my partners) but nothing beyond the scale of the common little things that occasionally bother a person in a relationship.
Now that I am an old person, I've had the drama of several old boyfriends deciding in their late 30s/early 40s and immediately post-divorce that they were desperately in love with me and always have been.
Wow. That's interesting.
I had the phenomenon of boyfriends who genuinely weren't that into me later deciding that our break-up wrecked their life. I was quite narcissistic about this - "How could I do that? I'm so valuable and crucial and I wrecked them!" - that got pointed out in therapy.
95: Heh. I am narcissistic in any number of ways, but in this case, I truly believe it has almost nothing to do with me except in so far as I happen to be an ex-girlfriend. They've been married for 10 years and haven't yet found the opportunity to find someone to moon over, so they recycle.
Deemz (I don't know how to form diminutives in Greek) you can borrow my fear of flying if you need. "I would love to join you in Macau, but regret that I must wait for the Bering tunnel."
Oh yes. I wasn't trying to imply you were narcissistic...never mind. I'm over-polite-ing here.
If there is one thing I am absolutely confident about, it's that no one who knew me 15 years ago is going to suddenly appear and confess that I'd been their true love all along.
A free plane ticket to Macau is not exactly the most enticing offer. "Hey, come out to see me, there's a nonzero chance that I'll lose you in a game of PaiGow to a Burmese junta member and you will spend the rest of your life as a concubine in a compound in Rangoon."
What the hell are your vacations like, Halford?
98: I will be overly polite back at you -- I totes did not think you were saying anything like that! I just think it's funny that something that seems flattering for like 5 minutes, upon the merest interrogation, really has nothing to do with you/me/one/wev.
97/100: Should I mention that the Macau guy is a special forces guy? Who does all his "business" in Asia?
They're everything you're imagining. And more.
|| Yay, Halford's on line! I'm waiting for an urgent email from somebody in your time zone!" |>
But what you say is true from what I've been told. Not a romantic, or even particularly interesting place. People who have been to Macau told me that it was as if Hong Kong was Dorian Gray and Macau was the picture in the attic.
Jesus fucking Christ is there one woman on this site who doesn't have a complicated relationship with a corrupt ex-special forces guy working for a dangerous Asian warlord? Just one?
Should I mention that the Macau guy is a special forces guy? Who does all his "business" in Asia?
oudemia is alameida! Or they share boys!
Oud and Al can now double date and maybe provide the basis for a cop show episode too. Since they're both classicists there's room for all kinds of plot twists.
Sorry Chris Y. You didn't get the role, everyone was impressed with your delivery but they're just looking for someone who can connect with the teen audience to reboot the Remington Steele franchise.
A guy I knew from Singapore said (awhile back) said that the locals there all behaved with cringing servility, as though the place was run by a demented feudal lord.
As usual, classic country has a relevant commentary . Or, for those of you who prefer the same message with a little more punk edge, try this .
Now that I am an old person, I've had the drama of several old boyfriends deciding in their late 30s/early 40s and immediately post-divorce that they were desperately in love with me and always have been.
I'm recently post-divorce (but in my 50s) and will admit I have done that. Not the desperate love thing so much, but more of a "I miss being close to a woman and I remember good times with so and so, I wonder what she is doing."
So far when I have made contact my responses have actually been better than those I get through match.com. All the ex has to say is "I'm married" and that's the end of that, but not that many do that. I'm not a home wrecker, although I guess I did break up a marriage, but she was nearly out the door already.
One time I contacted a date from years ago, who I knew has been widowed for a long time, and who was not seeing anyone, gave me the suddenest, biggest, completest shutdown of all times. Microseconds after my "I'm single now" disclosure she said "So am I, I'm not seeing anyone, and I want NO contact with you of any kind. Period! "
Wow. Her bitch-shield was set to EXTREME KILL. She wasn't that way when I knew her years ago, and it makes me sad, but obviously I honored her request. I will admit it has made be extremely curious, though, and much more curious than if she had simply lied and said "I'm married." I wonder what happened to her?
Did you steal stuff from her house when you dated?
I wonder what happened to her?
Age and experience has taught her to avoid romantic entanglements with people who talk about things like her "bitch-shield"?
Though age and experience has obviously not taught me subject-verb agreement.
Did you steal stuff from her house when you dated?
I don't think so. I didn't start that until later. But I did do this.
I made contact with her via email, cleverly using my office email, so she could see I was working. She gave me her number and I called, and that is when I got shot down.
So I *forgot* to delete her from my office contact list, and I *accidentally* included her on the bulk email talking about my charity work at the Polar Plunge. What are the odds that this ploy will spark her interest?
48: People who have been in long relationships have lower numbers of past lovers. They also are probably more likely to have emotional baggage from their emotionally complicated past relationships.
Disagree.
13 gets it totally right!
But I only talk about the bitch shield under my pseud. I know it is not a subject for polite conversation, just on unfogged.
Once you pee in a lady's cornflakes, just one single time, that's what they'll remember you for.
I'm sure no one can guess your true feelings about women! Your secret is safe with us!
Oh, wait, I think I have a clue. I sent the email from the Mayo Clinic, and then on the phone disclosed that I was not a Doctor!! I forgot to set the expectation low - a classic beginner mistake, so she shot me down for being a nube! Argh. No wonder I don't do sales.
I think "bulk email" is enough to explain why she said no.
I suppose I shouldn't rule out having a giant chip on your shoulder.
Age and experience has taught her to avoid romantic entanglements with people who talk about things like her "bitch-shield"? would joke about her being a shallow gold-digger.
You're in your fifties, and you contacted someone from long enough ago that she wouldn't have known you weren't a doctor, and she was still pissed off at you enough to tell you to get lost without catching up? Man. Whatever you did twenty-five years ago must have been impressively irritating.
Don't get me wrong, women have bitch shields not because they are bitches, but because they must deal with men's jerk postures.
I fail to understand why they are not then called jerk shields.
I forgot to set the expectation low
That's what you get for suggesting Applebee's.
Bit it resloved that now and forevermore, "bitch shields" will be called "jerk shields" and will be tax-deductable up to the amount of a thousand dollars.
125: Whatever you did twenty-five years ago must have been impressively irritating.
Yeah. All posturing (and Blume-baiting) aside, yeah. But the thing is I recall no such thing. We casually dated, but she couldn't move here, and I wouldn't move there, and she met someone else and got married, and I met someone else and got married, and she came to my sister's funeral and told me how sorry she was, and she was always friends with my Mom and I got updates from my Mom about her now and then.
When my Mom passed away I contacted this ex to tell her, we exchanged notes, one phone call, and then that was it.
Joking aside, I really have no clue. We parted on good terms years ago. She did make some bitter comment to my Mom years ago about not dating anyone again after her husband passed because she didn't need another child in her life, meaning her husband, who was kinda a bum. That is why I used my work email, to show her I am NOT a bum.
I don't think I'll ever know the answer.
"Bitch shields" refers to the shield women put up to protect themselves from middle aged, whiny ass bitches of men who are up in their face about how they once nibbled on a lip back in 1986.
I guess 131 could be read as being affirmatively mean to Tripp which was not its intent at all. I just kind of type letters into the comment box in order to pass the time.
Still, the assumption that the lost flame will still have an interest is so, so likely to be wrong. Classic situation where one person is all up in their head with a fantasy that the other person doesn't share.
I fail to understand why they are not then called jerk shields.
Good question. Probably because I just made up the "Jerk posture" reference.
Also, it is never clear if the shield name should refer to what is being protected, what is being repelled, or what the shield is made of. For example, we have missile shields, but also panty shields, and wooden shields of fire resistance -1. It is all very confusing.
115 is wrong. It just took an extra minute.
131: For the record, it was 1978-1980, and there was more face-sucking than lip nibbling, IIRC.
Also, regarding lost flames and smoldering interest, I give you "facebook." In my experience, the exes have at least some interest in a significant (if not majority) number of cases.
Microseconds after my "I'm single now" disclosure
Joking aside, I really have no clue.
My guess is that you're not the first newly single person from her past to contact her out of the blue.
You have an obligation to disclose the big structural facts of your past
A talk show is a hell of a place to find out your partner used to have a different gender.
My guess is that you're not the first newly single person from her past to contact her out of the blue.
Probably so. Also, she sings in the Chicago Symphony Chorus, and has for years, since I first knew her in 1978, so I think she is at least a minor celebrity, and probably has had to deal with a lot of intruders over the years. I was hoping our past relationship would get my foot in the door. I really would like to get to know her again, even as a friend, because she has a wonderful singing talent, and I've always admired that in people, because my musical talents do not extend to voice.
Oh, and my official position is that if fewer men were jerks fewer women would need shields.
"Bitch Shield" is a little slurry. Maybe "Bitch Field"?
This is starting to remind me of Spinal Tap. ("No, it's a song about dog training.")
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I just received an email that ended with the author saying they "look forward to making more progress with you soon!"
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Try playing hard to get for once, rob.
Some kind of therapist, or an offer you can't refuse?
Rob, if you are fearful of having sex with this person, I suggest wearing these, the platypus of footwear.
That's a pretty low bar for celebrity...
How high was the person who designed those shoes?
What's worse, it was a group email.
But occasionally I worry that this is schtick that makes me sound psycho rather than affectionate. (Note: Buck unambiguously likes it and takes it the right way; I'm just wondering how strange we are.)
There may be a pattern here.
God I fucking hated London Fields.
Buck unambiguously likes it and takes it the right way
heteronormitavist
A normitavist is a Republican who doesn't like any of the alternatives to Mitt, but doesn't like Mitt either. They come in two types, hetero and closeted.
105/6: maybe they at least work for the same company.
oh, and now I can't even use my magic editing powers to save myself without ruining the joke. le sigh.
I'm not attached to the joke. Feel free to wield your hatchet!
"Scene One: Oudemia and Alameida are bragging in Latin about their sexy boyfriends.....
Scene 27: After freeing herself from her bonds and escaping through a ventilation duct, Alameida meets a simple peasant who, as a lifelong Macau Catholic, is fluent in Latin.
157: Are there peasants in Macau? I suppose I could ask my friend whose parents live there.
our pseuds seem suspiciously similar now that you mention it. at some point, the fact that oudemia actually wrote her dissertation while I did not, will have to be a crucial plot.
There's a Robert Mitchum movie from the late 40s, maybe early 50s set in Macau. Called, I think, Macau. I don't think there any classicists, but there are some ex-military and some adventurers.
I think that the scuzziness of colonial Asia may have been best preserved in Macau. Perhaps the UN should name it a heritage site of some sort.
159: The dissertation got me too. I almost wrote three incomplete chapters.
God I fucking hated London Fields.
ME TOO! It was so terrible.
I think that the scuzziness of colonial Asia may have been best preserved in Macau. Perhaps the UN should name it a heritage site of some sort.
The sun frequently sets on the Portuguese Empire.
"Why...why... you're nothing but an ABD! And you dare say things like that!"
Except in Latin.
Monocle* had a fascinating piece about Macau last year. It looks pretty interesting in spots, horribly depressing in others.
* Yeah, I know, Tyler Brûlé murdered your dog with an exquisitely-minimalist European manpurse.
I was going to get a joint classics/philosophy degree. if only I had stuck with sanskrit math texts I might be raking in the big bucks now.
also on topic, drama class merc is paying me half his remaining 15K debt now and half next month. for a project I finished at the end of october. someone is stringing things out like a motherfucker. in happier news, his company is opening two new offices, one in iraq and one in somaliland!?!
hey, did you guys know blackwater/xe is called academi now? with shit about plato on their front page? da noive of dese people.
Back from Syracuse already?
I would have thought they were more Lyceum types.
No one gets 170? Do I have to look up a page reference in Safranski or something?
I would have gone with "spartiaki" if I were determined to mangle the ending of a relevant word.
what is one meant to say? it's funny! let's see, how about, "I guess they can keep plato up then, so long as they recognize allegedly-benevolent rule by fascist overlords doesn't usually end well."
It's especially funny because (i) someone actually said that to Heidegger, though I've never seen a name, and (ii) Kaufmann has a mordant note in Philosopher, Psychologist, Anti-Christ about Heidegger's magnificently perfect lack of a sense of humor.
I meant to reference that Vanity Fair profile of Erik Prince, in which he is depicted as the sort of guy who thinks grim humorlessness makes both a leader of men and a philosopher king, rather than a particle-board Jack Bauer.
175: Via der Google it appears it was a colleague Wolfgang Schadewaldt, who had apparently come back but a bit earlier than Heidegger had.
Whereas Carl Schmitt just smiled quietly to himself, and Leo Strauss skedaddled, with a pouty expression on his face.
Don't be misled by his exoteric expression, John.
mr. prince does seem like an unusually humorless fellow. and a total, gaping asshole.
I think expecting us to make the leap to a vanity fair article is bit much.
No, no, I was going to quote it and then got distracted by the spectacle of Erin Andrews having to share the ESPN screen with some gnarled, hunched beast from the colorless and freezing waste of -- sorry, that's a college football coach. My mistake.
better men than you have made that mistake, flip. how do you think the legends about gnomes arose? people probably saw a college football coach from far away, and ran back to their village screaming.
I am slightly pleased with myself for (if I'm not mistaken) having given drama club merc his nom de drame.
When I was in my early teens my mother's exes hit their midlife crises, or divorces, whatever, and many of them called her, and apparently my voice was just like hers, and there were some only mildly inappropriate but still deeply unpleasant misunderstandings. Don't do that, people.
Clew, if you give me your mom's phone number, I'll make sure never to call it.
Maybe you should, actually. She's sworn off romance but makes good pie.
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It may not have quite the unfettered brilliance of AWB's review of the play, but this is a pretty good review of War Horse the movie.
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33/32:
How can you truly understand a person without understanding the shit they've gone through before?
No, no, Helpy-Chalk said you're only required to disclose receptive anal sex.
Thanks, folks, I'll be here all week.
Sorry. The fruit, it just hung so low.
On a related note, disclosing one's history of dealing with unfortunate plumbing accidents is also essential.
Seriously, though: I'm totally in agreement with M Leblanc on this; I want to know everything, out of voyeuristic curiosity.
Speaking of which, I've been spending a lot of time with a woman this past two weeks, though in a thus far totally non-sexual way. (Though dating history has indeed come up.) I'm trying to figure out how to strangle the stirrings of desire I'm feeling, which I'm pretty sure have nothing to do with her (not that she's not desirable) and everything to do with my own desperation for validation, wanting to feel wanted, &c. Bleh.
I'm trying to figure out how to strangle the stirrings of desire I'm feeling, which I'm pretty sure have nothing to do with her (not that she's not desirable) and everything to do with my own desperation for validation, wanting to feel wanted, &c.
Hm. Does she seem to be into you?
No reason to think so; she's been the one to propose we hang out about as often as I have, but I think it's largely because she's looking for new friends, her old ones having, at least as she tells it, become lame. Since I also need new friends, this is great; hence my not wanting to mess things up. So long as I don't get drunk, things should be okay.
188 - that is great. But I do hope everyone here knows what a guinea is. I'll be disappointed in you if not.
193: Sounds reasonable.
194: I suspect that most people here do, but that most Americans don't.
184: yes indeedy you did.
no, 21 shillings! that also seems silly. I'll cheat and look now.
OK, right on the second try. I remembered how much pounds were worth in old novels and realized it had to be one pound plus one shilling. which is still silly, mind.
I think that the scuzziness of colonial Asia may have been best preserved in Macau.
Oh yeah. Big time. Dear old Stanley Ho, the Dodgiest Man in Asia.
kobe would win big in macau! twice!
I mean, it's only to be expected. To the north, a large, sketchily-governed country with insatiable demand for (at various times in its history) smuggled drugs, smuggled arms, and smuggled luxury goods. To the east, the most sophisticated money laundering centre in the entire world. In charge of it all, Portugal.
This is not a recipe for unimpeachable moral probity.