Awesome gig- you could just use the same "original" name for all 200 of your customers and they won't know it until there are 5 nevaehs in the kindergarten class.
Why am I working for a living when there are scams like this I could be running? Damn my parents for giving me a name that reflects a strong moral character.
I'm with B that this is a perfectly reasonable way for these women to express some of the anxiety of new-motherhood.
Why am I working for a living when there are scams like this I could be running?
Can you imagine being on the receiving end of these peoples' panicked calls?
3 - And I almost believe you could say that with a straight face.
Right; offering soothing nonsense to worried people is a massive industry already.
The classic name consultant article, from when Salon didn't suck.
I think Standpipe Bridgeplate should go into business as an online pseudonym consultant.
The graph for "Farrah" is funny. People were really into Charlie's Angels for like 3 years there.
Totally OT, but this is hilarious.
Why would anyone pay $500 for baby-name advice to someone named "Maryanna"?
Consultant, heal thyself!
Standpipe Bridgeplate Dot Com Nostalgia Comedy Revue coming soon to the Cuyahoga County Agricultural Fair!
We shouldn't criticize people for the things they do, because if they're doing it, they must have good reasons. Also, elitism.
8: yeah. I think corporate and product names are the most interesting. Especially for drugs -- "Abilify" is a recent standout. Who wouldn't want to be Abilified?
Why can't we as a culture acknowledge that marriage and motherhood can be rocky transitions and offer real ways to deal with that? Oh right, because then women might not see the two as necessary and sufficient conditions for happiness and Oxygen and TLC would have to create whole new program lineups. Damn feminists and their nuclear-family-hating ways.
We shouldn't criticize people for the things they do, because if they're doing it, they must have good reasons.
Does this apply just to explicit criticism?
4: In my last job I took phone calls from federal agencies whose firewalls had died. In this job I take calls from banks in the same situation. I would love to get paid $350 to spend an hour and a half with someone on speakerphone talking about their baby's name. I think that given the chance I would have an almost limitless capacity to say 'uh-huh?' and 'I think you've raised a really strong point' while playing World of Warcraft.
I think Standpipe Bridgeplate should go into business as an online pseudonym consultant.
Would people pay for that?
This post makes me happy. Things can't be going too badly for us if we're paying $500 for this crap.
21 - I don't know but I'll be sure to refer all of the people who sign comments "nobody" or "a lurker" or similar your way.
20: you'd also make a great agent.
21: I wish I'd had a consultant when I picked my handle, that's for damn sure. Although, since I was 15, I would have had to pay you by offering up my body, which would have made the relative trauma levels pretty much a wash.
I dub you: teleglomp. Your money is now my money.
Wait a minute, Oxygen is now a tool of the patriarchy? Don't blame me for that shit.
25: I like to think I've blown through the wall of self-parody into a whole new happy hippie-dippie persona. I look forward, now, to the squirrel posts.
SB, if you criticize a stupid person in any way, even silently in your mind, you are culpable. You can only blissfully say to yourself, "I'm sure she has very good reasons for what she's doing."
Or "he", bending over backwards for sake of PC, since some stupid persons are indeed male.
I'm not going to defend it in general, but I think the woman who spent $25 to get her husband to shut up about naming their son Jolt probably made a sound investment.
How bad could the fire be if Nero had time to fiddle?
March of the Timbots:
My mother's people came by ship
And fought at Bunker Hill.
My daddy lost a leg in France
I have his medals still.
My brother served with Patton
I saw action in Algiers.
Oh, we must be doin' somethin' right
To last 200 years.
I gave my friend a great name for commenting on blogs once. I think he only used it twice, though.
Pay me $300 and I'll make up all the cruel nicknames I can think of based on your child's potential name.
Here's one for free, folks:
Snorri O'Postrophe
For a long time I've thought that something or someone should call themself "Meconium", but no one else has ever thought that.
Standpipe! Do you do logistical consulting too, or just the creative aspects? I grew tired of this cartoonish pseud. about a week-and-a-half after I started using it, but LB threatened to harm me if I tried to change it. I feel stuck.
38 to 41
Or you could do what Walt Someguy McManlypants did and make a smooth transition.
how long till Ogg blogs about the socialogical implications of points raised in Jessica Biel's GQ interview?
Another sample of my work:
Das Katerer
Hypnopotamus
Junius Ponds
Each is free for the first week and 20 cents for each post thereafter.
Ornithorhynchus Anatinus
43: not smooth enough that I caught it, but that doesn't mean much.
I've always been fond of "Cola Wars" as a handle, but I will magnanimously offer it up to anyone here.
We shouldn't criticize people for the things they do, because if they're doing it, they must have good reasons. Also, elitism.
Right, but we should definitely question why people in the aggregate might make choices along a few predictably limited lines, instead of just going, oh, another kee-razy lifestyle trend that has nothing to do with deeper societal problems!
Wait a minute, Oxygen is now a tool of the patriarchy? Don't blame me for that shit.
As a card-carrying member of the patriarchy, you are personally responsible for the TLC morning A Patriarchy Story lineup: A Baby Story, A Wedding Story, 10 Years Younger and so forth -- just as I'm personally responsible for all those lesbians who've decided not to shave. Sack up here and own your part.
I love it that one woman dropped $350 for a one and a half hour consultation and ended up naming her kid after one of the characters from Friends.
I feel stuck.
Aren't you already on your second pseud here?
Changing your pseudonym just because you hate it is the coward's way out.
I've for a couple of reasons considered changing my nick, probably to this one.
50: I understand we're only allowed one lifetime pseud change. (And even that only with LB's blessing.) I didn't choose carefully and now I'm paying the price. Natural consequences.
Look, just spend a week posting as "Bolt Vanderhuge, né Brock Landers", and then make the transition to full-on "Bolt Vanderhuge". Be like Cingular-->The New AT&T.
Yeah, but then he'd just end up back at Brock Landers. "Brock Landers: the new new AT&T!"
54: I don't know whether her consent is formally required, but she definitely snarled at me. It frightened me. I'm not willing to risk that again.
56: Maybe this has already happened. Hence 53
She's broad-shouldered, you know.
54: did you promise you had a very good reason?
I love it that one woman dropped $350 for a one and a half hour consultation and ended up naming her kid after one of the characters from Friends.
And other from The Facts Of Life, but thankfully not Tootie.
"Mervyn Peake" was the sometime pseudonym of G.B. Shaw. True connoisseurs of his work know that "Gormenghast" is pronounced "fish".
40: And Meconia if it's a girl.
"Fish" is actually spelled "ghoti".
Standpipe regrets the error.
fish or ghoti or not, I like the nick well enough.
69: Standpipe is papally infallible.
8, 9: I'd pay for "The Official Standpipe Bridgeplate Guide To When Each Thing Which Sucks Began To Do So."
My rule for naming kids is that it has to sound good in the phrase:
"Secretary of State [your child's name] announced today that ..".
No one has my name any more. What happened to it?
I'm infinitely palpable.
72: Secretary of State Oxcrusher Delorean Laserface announced today that...
I couldn't tell if any of the parents were doing this for kids other than their first. If so, then deserving of pointed mockery for not learning from the first that parental influence is different from anything imaginable before kids. different than? Anyway, I looked for Meconium Lastname and didn't find one.
Could be misspelled, I guess. I've been impressed by Iain Pears' talent for choosing names.
"Secretary of State Scooter Libby announced today that the charges against him were baseless and silly."
3: Nice try, but I actually think paying someone else to name your kid is wacko.
B named her kid wackily all by herself.
Pseudonymouse Koppel isn't that wacky.
Ayup, got it in one. Well, okay, I had some help from his father.
Try to support the bitch and she stabs you in the back.
If I'd known he was going to develop the mouse obsession, I *would* have gone with pseudonymouse. Hee.
88: It's my female prerogative to be mercurial.
Maybe she used the Bitch Name Generator.
Oh holy shit, I didn't know those guys had done that. They so rock.
Hmm... this thread has convinced me that I finally want to ditch my stopgap pseudonym that was adopted when I first commented here. Still, the only past pseudonym that I'm tempted to use is "Po-Mo Polymath", which is horrendously pretentious, but it's really just taking the piss, and it's so euphonious, and and and...
Well, just let me know if this would incite any rage, otherwise I'll switch.
Normally I'd be terrifying about it, but considering you're changing from one of those dratted three-letters-in-a-row-with-no-apparent-meaning, I'm fine. Just don't expect me to remember anything you've ever said before.
Emerson, you and your Meconium Encomiums.
Recently, there was a clever Freudian slip on a flyer for the bookstore where Frowner volunteers: Pomo Poko
I like a period of "(formerly [whoever])".
I don't think anyone would notice if I changed my name.
pdf23ds, dear god, don't do that. I just learned how to spell it.
According to this site, my middle child has an enormously common name (Noah Joseph, #15 & #11), though my other kids don't rank in the top 100 for either name (Keegan Scott and Cassidy Harper). Though I'm kinda dubious: when did Scott fall out of the top 100? More Braydens and Kadens than Scotts? Really?
Remember the thread about how old a guy could be and still kick your ass? We're up to 72.
I've thought of changing to a different fish -- one that doesn't inspire such strong disapproval.
It just occured to me that people with occupational names ought to be forced to change them unless they're an accurate represeentation: you can't use Smith as a last name unless you work metal for a living. Otherwise, we run the risk of being sued by nutcase judges who think we're engaging in false advertising just by using our names. (I get calls every 6 months or so asking for work of a certain type. I also get calls, more often in the summer, intended for a marina in Alabama somewhere: do I have any jetskis that can be reserved today? If I was a woman, you'd say yes.)
Seriously, naming a baby is difficult enough that it might be worth an outside opinion. It seems to cost less than getting someone who matches jordan almonds to shoelaces -- or whatever decent people care about wrt weddings these days -- and the impact is far less transient. There's not just the dopey spouse who wants to name the kid '4sure' but also various in-laws, aunts, uncles, etc who would like to see a particular name.
I don't have any regrets, even though my daughter has what was among the top 5 names the year she was born. She, on the other hand, has been in a phase for some time now where she thinks her firstborn (may it be long in coming) ought to be named Pony. Would you pay a consultant to assess this?
103. Please note that 72 year old "Bill" (traditional name) kicked the shit out of "Jesse" (wimpy throwback Biblical name). Draw your own conclusions on changing Medicare once Generation Awesome reaches their majority.
We hashed out baby names on Apostropher's blog a while back, and after rigorous vetting by his commenters, my wife and I are (so far) going with Warren for a boy and Ivy for a girl.
Aw, CharleyCarp, I hold you distinct from your carpiness. No need to swap ghoti.
she thinks her firstborn (may it be long in coming) ought to be named Pony. Would you pay a consultant to assess this?
Hell, no. Pony is great.
CharleyTuna is taken. Try Wahoo or Smelt.
Hell, no. Pony is great.
Have her read Twisty's comments for a month or two. She'll sour on the name.
Pony is indeed pretty great. We have all kinds of dreadful names lined up for our future children, in various themed sets.
Pony is good, but then you're locked into the whole Pony Poni Poné thing for the first three, and that might feel a little constricting.
Whoo hoo! LB trumps any objections! It's not like she could remember any of my previous comments anyway.
Also, pony rules.
The "formerly" period should be, like, several days long.
Way back in comment 8, Bridgeplate linked to the awesome Salon naming article, which is my opportunity to point out that Ruth Shalit was dinged at the Post for making up facts about black people in an article on the backlash to affirmative action (and then claiming the Post's purported media critic Howie Kurtz misquoted her); was dinged for plagiarism at The New Republic; and then apparently got uninvited from writing for Salon for her inaccuracies on that story. (I seem to recall that one of the quotes in that article was alleged to have been invented, but I can't source that.)
On the other hand, it really is a fantastically funny piece, and the irony of the rumors about Ms. Shalit's mysterious longevity in journalism given her sister's job as a professional scold about women sleeping around is kinda fun.
Apparently Mel B and Eddie Murphy's daughter has my daughter's first name for her middle name. This is the first sign that my daughter's name migt become trendy, but since she's already 3, I figure she's far enough ahead of the curve to be in the clear.
Our go-to fake proposed name is Schlong. Because we're naming our first kid, whenever that happens, after my late mother our options are (mercifully) constrained. There's too many options out there.
Weird to read the Sullywatch post linked by snarkout and come across both Cathy Seipp and Steve Gilliard.
My daughter's never–rare name is down to 49th on Apo's link, although when she was at camp—admittedly denominational—a few years ago there were so many in her cabin they gave each other new names that have stuck. I'll still get a call now and then from a grownup–sounding voice asking for her by that name. My son's name is one everybody has heard of, is not considered particularly old–fashioned or hickish, yet is seldom given, I think because people think it's a mouthful for a kid. I'm not aware of it ever giving him any trouble, and he and his friends have always liked it.
OK, I see that none of you are fit to be baby name consultants!
it's a mouthful for a kid
Zucchini?
Your cousins have some alright names, Charley.
A family I knew as a kid had eight children named, in order, Rick, Vic, Jill, Rill, Tim, Todd, Tam, Pam. Say it out loud, and you'll understand why I still remember that after 30 years. (But really -- Rill?)
My pseud, incidentally, is also a result of LB's bullying suasion.
J McQ, your pseud is one of my faves. So thanks, LB, for bullying him.
My rule for naming kids is that it has to sound good in the phrase:
"Secretary of State [your child's name] announced today that ..".
Say what you will about her, but the current SecState manages to pull it off with dignity despite the fact that her parents clearly didn't have this rule in mind when they named her.
Seven Caitlins and a Catlyn in my sister's elementary school class.
124 -- Yeah, but where the hell are they?
Would you pay a consultant to assess this?
Hells yes, keep drumming up support for my business. For $350 I'll tell you your choice of names is awesome. For half-price I'll let you tell your relatives that you sought my approval for whatever you do. Go ahead, name it Doobie McWeed and blame it on me. I'll slap up nameologywiki.com and put in there that it's an honorific among certain deprived tribes of the Southern Hemisphere, great, whatever, just sign the credit card slip. It's not like I have to see them at Thanksgiving.
More seriously, yeah, it's going to be on their driver's license and called out the first day of every school year for the rest of their lives. They can get a nickname. These kids are going to grow up in an era where their aunts and uncles grew up changing their most-used name every time they forgot their MySpace password. They are going to have nicknames that incorporate control-characters. They will get over it.
Well look what I started (and seemingly slid under LB's radar).
I might just have to stick with it....
Don't change pseudonym's unless you're in danger of being identified or something equally drastic, folks. No one wants to hang out with a bunch of disconnected comments.
They are going to have nicknames that incorporate control-characters.
"Oh, Doug^H^H^H^H, don't be silly. Of course you weren't an accident."
"No, 3Jane, we didn't really want a robot."
"Why yes, Pwn J00z, daddy did play video games before you were born."
I'm not sure these really count as changes, but I'll stop annoying our host. In this way, at any rate.
Night all.
My great grandpa was named Julius, a name I'd love to pass on to future Stanleyites, but I'm concerned about the Imperial-Rome implications, notwithstanding the fact that my consanguine Julius was a Pole.
132: Of course, I was only teasing about the under the radar bit. I was seriously considering swapping nics here for a real reason, though. The immediate need has passed, but I'm still a bit torn about it actually; whether avoiding further/future issues is worth messing with continuity for you all.
But I shouldn't have made light of it, really, because this site needs continuity of sorts.
If you need to change your pseud to protect yourself, do it, no question.
Do not change pseuds, or I will bite your torso and give you a disease.
Do not change pseuds, or I will bite your torso and give you a disease.
Your money is now our money.
Keep the pseuds unfogged.
(GUITAR, FALSETTO)
If I see you change your pseud, Satan will down your throat with hot acid and dissolve your testicles and turn your guts into snakes!
"her favorite name, Leah Marie, to see if it had positive associations."
Leah, if I remember, was the ugly older sister of Rachel. Why would any parent call their daughter Leah?
Also, Star Wars-based jokes.
I thought if you changed your pseud the crocodile god offler would wind your entrails on a stick.
this irritated me: "Others, citing the rising popularity of names like Sophie, Hannah, Violet and Emma, predict a return to the classics." dammit! I checked to see whether my baby girl's name was increasing in popularity on the SS database, and it was modestly decreasing, but obviously my (truly) amazing fashion sense played me wrong here and I picked the name right before it got hot. hmph. I even considered clementine as a name no one has that is sweet and old-fashioned and now i know like 3 clementines among the pre-school set.
"Others, citing the rising popularity of names like Sophie, Hannah, Violet and Emma, predict a return to the classics."
Optimizing, Sohaviema could be the new Oprah.
but I'm concerned about the Imperial-Rome implications
Emphasise the Groucho connection.
bah, 145 was me. I'm obviously agitata.
145: Names do go in phases, don't they? It's like everyone woke up and decided they wanted something sweet, but classic, and all settled on names their grandmothers had. Anything that nicknames to 'Ellie' or 'Maddy' is very popular now, too.
It tickles me to think of my future grandkids thinking of Ashley as an old lady name, and their kids resurrecting it as a timeless classic.
Anything that nicknames to 'Ellie' or 'Maddy' is very popular now
And yet I'm not seeing a lot of grrls named "Ellen". Or for that matter, "Maddalakawacka".
New baby-naming rule: pick the nickname you want, and add the "alakawacka" suffix. Pure gold!
Hey here's a pretty cool tool, which confirms that "Ellen" has been declining in popularity since the early '90's.
Sorry, CharleyCarp, we already have a CharleyCutthroatTrout. Could you pick another pseud?
My late mother-in-law was the first person I ever heard suggest that likely nicknames should be a serious consideration in naming, and that the feelings of children wrt what they might be expected to have to put up with should be taken into account. Putting it that way may malign my parents, who may simply never have talked about it in that way, and in fact gave us perfectly normal and comfortable names, I just remember being struck by a person of her generation suggesting that it ought to be a policy.
I was thinking of giving Guadelupe Bass a whirl, because it's the state fish of Texas, and does live in the Brazos, even if not in the parts of it I've fished. But then (a) a stern look from the host and, more important, (b) the inability to think of anything worth saying, killed the thing.
Should anyone be looking for a name, then, CharleyGuadelupeBass remains open.
I can't recommend this name for children, though. Too many people will want to put an O in Guadelupe.
Indeed I would recommend more generally against giving your children names with internal capital letters. They are eye-poison, almost to a one.
Like: Marybeth: OK. Mary-Beth: Well I guess. MaryBeth: Get thee behind me!
Yeah, intercaps are not so great.
159: Initial caps are, however, encouraged.
re: 155
My parents were apparently going to name me 'Jacob' but chose not to precisely because they didn't like 'Jake' as a shortened form or nickname.
My own name seems consistently in the US top 10 since the early 70s, but in Scotland, it wasn't. I didn't meet another Matthew until I was in my mid-teens.
A friend of mine insisted he was going to call his firstborn son 'Fridge'. Purely for euphonic reasons. He just though 'Fridge P/almer' sounded good.
155, see 116, from the Simpsons. Thinking about the elementary school implications of your child's name is the bare minimum in parenting competence.
My wife's first (tho not only) rule in child-naming is No Nicknames. This handily eliminates about 95% of all names. Her other main rule is Easy To Spell, which takes care of another couple percent.
The funny thing about this is that she would like to call me by a nickname, albeit it just my first initial.
"No Nicknames" strikes me as a weird rule. Nicknaming seems like a pretty universal (at least in the cultures I know) impulse.
This site gives the statistics of baby names for about the last century in a fun graphic.
I even was able to scientifically come up with scinetific facts and trends about this. Names with the initial letters F, O, E, and H have become much less common since 1900, and names beginning with K have become much more common. There were also other trends 1900-1860 which were reversed during 1960-2000: link.
Your wife would have been quite anxious about our sending our son to school with the name of the author of The Scarlet Letter. We expected his nickname would be that of one of his actual namesakes, the great jazz/pop singer, first black man to have a national television show. It sometimes is; he prefers it, often spelled with two tees to emphasis the short vowel, but he gets the long-vowel version, rhymes with "great," all the time from adults like teachers, who often expect the six-letter version and not the nine.
Went to school with a Leah. 1978 model. You really were named after a Star Wars character, weren't you?
Anyway, name consultants...anyone else interested in joining a rationalist terror group?
A friend of mine once worked with a gentleman named Wilder, which was a name I couldn't believe at all but was in fact his given birth name. As one might expect he was smoking hot, incredibly nice and witty, tended bar and won every game of pool.
165: That is a neat tool.
149: Ella, Eleanor, Ellie, Elli, etc. Madison, Madeleine.
My dad's name is the same as shivbunny's grandfather's name, so I think if we have a boy, that name's settled. If we have a girl, I'm going to have to talk shivbunny down from squealing that she's so adorable that she has to be named Angelina Ballerina or something suitably frilly.
I could have sworn I'd done a post about experiences like alameida's with naming. All my friends thought and thought and came up with names that were not unusual, but seemed not popular, and of course they turned out to be among the most popular names for kids born in those years.
171:LB's experience too, several times told—always well, I might add.
Oh, not a post, just this comment. Anyway, once again, check out the baby name wizard.
172: I do appreciate kindness to the scatterbrained. (I worry terribly, given my lousy memory, not only that I'm boring people by retelling stories, but that I'm getting them wrong, or at least telling them in a factually inconsistent way.)
Come to think of it, isn't Chopper in the throes of name picking out? I can't remember when little Moped is due, but should be soon now.
167: hang on, if you were at school in Yorkshire, wouldn't her name have been pronounced pretty much exactly the same as you pronounced the word "Leer"?
anyone else interested in joining a rationalist terror group?
Not right now, but what are you talking about?
125: my name here dates from the same LB campaign, although Jackmormon actually suggested it. For some reason her mind was on things Middle Eastern...
Ella, Eleanor, Ellie, Elli, etc
Yeah I know, I just think it's strange that "Ellen" (Mrs. Clownae's given name) is unpopular given the phenomenon you reference.
173, meet 165. We were pretty successful in choosing a name that has remained unpopular.
Cala at 145: That kind of thing is a minor detail in this short story.
181: 145 was an agitata Alameida was it not?
I've mentioned before, my wee brother has a normal first-name, but a completely made-up* surname different from anyone else in the family.
* well, it's a word. But not an English word.
Why would any parent call their daughter Leah?
I knew a Leah in school, too. So did Donnie Iris.
Standard work on the sociology of names is here.
How does that work? Did your parents give him a surname different from their own, and why?
My wee brother has a different surname, because he and his wife both changed their names when they wed; they chose our maternal great-great-grandmother's maiden name, mainly because they liked the sound of it.
My childhood friend Tao's hippy parents changed their surname to Saucelito-Guacamole, for similar reasons.
I know I've told this story before, probably in the thread ogged linked to, but my sister's name is one that my mom had wanted to name her daughter for years because she thought it was so beautiful and unique, and then it turned out that a lot of other parents seemed to be thinking the same thing around that time. My sister used to hate the name, mostly because it was so common, but she seems to have made her peace with it. She goes by her middle name at college, though.
My own first name is so unusual that when I introduce myself to people they often remark that they've never met anyone named that before.
(I mean, her mother's maiden name)
167: I dated someone who was named after Alia in Dune. It was actually pretty neat, as it's just obscure enough to not be immediately apparent.
My wife's first (tho not only) rule in child-naming is No Nicknames
I was ever so bitter as a child that my name had no nicknames (unless you are Russian, but Veruschka is a little hard to pull off as a dorky American child).
Come to think of it, isn't Chopper in the throes of name picking out? I can't remember when little Moped is due, but should be soon now.
Why yes, thanks for remembering. She's due July 8, although the baby dropped about 3 days ago, so, we might get an early arrival. We're pretty much settled on a first name (Cecelia), although if she's born 8 or more days early, we might go with June, and if she's born 1 day early she might be Lucille (Lucky for short--I don't think that'll fly, but we'll see).
The challenge that I'm curently wrestling with is middle name--Georgeanna, for my grandmother (dead), or Megan, for my sister (with a boy coming in September, which might earn me a reciprocal middle name)? Cecilia Georgeanna roles off the tongue fairly nicely.
Also, I seem to be incapable of pronouncing my own name in such a way that others grasp what it is (this is not a problem in England, where I believe it has been more common over the last century). "Zera? Fiona? Sorry, what?"
"No Nicknames" strikes me as a weird rule. Nicknaming seems like a pretty universal (at least in the cultures I know) impulse.
I know. But she has a long-ish, French-originated name (chosen, oddly, by her Francophobe German father) that she prefers in full. It's bizarre to me when one of her few remaining HS friends refers to her by her nickname. I guess she never liked it, either.
My parents, too, picked my name with no awareness that it was so numbingly common as to be a cliche for my cohort. Apparently their friends told them - only too late - "You can't name him that! Everyone's named that now." Although I never had more than 2 fellow-namers in my class at any time.
My great grandpa was named Julius, a name I'd love to pass on to future Stanleyites, but I'm concerned about the Imperial-Rome implications, notwithstanding the fact that my consanguine Julius was a Pole.
That can be solved by nicknaming the kid Groucho. Second kid, Adolf --> Harpo.
All my friends thought and thought and came up with names that were not unusual, but seemed not popular, and of course they turned out to be among the most popular names for kids born in those years.
that's why I am NOT telling anyone my beautiful girl's name that was in the top 500 in the 1920s but has gone unused for 60 years.
I don't understand the nickname hate. I have a long but common name, and went by the whole thing rather than a nickname until high school, when some friends called me Lizard, and then in the Peace Corps I went to Liz for all purposes, because it's easier for Samoans to say than Elizabeth.
But nicknames always seemed charming to me -- all my father's Queens friends from when he was a kid were Lefty, Whitey, Patty, E. Bozo, or whatever. Newt has a name that's pretty common these days, with a classic nickname (shared by a longtime homerun record holder and a oldtime country music singer) that you never, ever hear any more, and we use the nickname. I like the idea of his being the only kid with that nickname around.
Advice, please:
We are planing another child in the near future, and have no boys' names lined up. We both have Georges in our families, it's easy to spell, no ready nickname, isn't popular, but... "George R/th" sounds so... flat. She minds it more than I do, but I can hear it too. The child will actually have a hyphenated last name, but we've alweays had in mind the possibility that the children can drop half the name if they find it cumbersome in adulthood.
So, are we overthinking this? Does George R/th have a ring to it that we just don't hear?
My name was quite uncommon when I was born and has since returned to Oblivion after a spurt of popularity in the mid-90's; and yet I had a classmate in high school with the same name, who ended up one of my best friends, and one of the few high school classmates I am still in touch with.
190: Wrong, search this page for "Vera" to find a minimalist alternative. A bonus is that it will imply whether the "e" is to be pronounced as "ee" or "eh".
http://www.mainealumni.org/obituaries/1950s.htm
I don't like the sound of "Geo/rge Ro/th". Two syllables, both with roughly the same vowel. Everything would be different if the last name was hyphenated, though.
Newt has a name that's pretty common these days, with a classic nickname (shared by a longtime homerun record holder and a oldtime country music singer) that you never, ever hear any more, and we use the nickname. I like the idea of his being the only kid with that nickname around.
If the name and nickname are the ones I think they are, I am afraid you may find that the nickname is getting more common. (I know because I was devoted to this name myself but have gotten scared off by its increasing popularity, and so am hyperaware of it.)
As far as I know, my parents just found my name in a baby names book and liked the sound of it. We're not Iranian. As a kid I hated it because it's so unusual and lends itself to so many different nicknames. Now, though, I've made my peace with it, because (combined with my last name, also bizarre) it's a great way to weed out telemarketers. Assholes in general, too; if I've talked to someone several times and he still can't figure out not to call me Simon or Silas, it's really easy to remember that I don't care about what he thinks beyond the bare minimum of not being openly rude.
"gertrude" is not beautiful. neither is "hortense".
and then it turned out that a lot of other parents seemed to be thinking the same thing around that time.
Explaining how this mechanism works is the purpose of the book linked to in 185.
Does George R/th have a ring to it that we just don't hear?
Call him Gorgo instead.
199 -> 195. My only problem with George R/th would be that two monosyllables sounds a bit abrupt. I'd be inclining towards a two-syllable name for euphony.
191: "Cecilia" is pretty, and the song's probably dead enough by now that she won't be haunted by it. Nicknames nicely too -- Cilia, Cil, and Cece are all pleasant.
I'm all in favor of sibling-honoring middle names, having done that twice myself (my sister, Buck's brother.)
Wrong, search this page for "Vera" to find a minimalist alternative.
Fair enough, though for some reason I find "Vee" hideous. Maybe if you just spell it "V." (And I do pronounce it that way.)
197 -- Your kid is named after my Grandpa, pbuh. He never used the nickname though, at least not during the years I knew him.
Awwww, if Newt's name is what I think it is, it's a great name.
198: It's not bad, but I think it runs together a little since 'George' has such a soft ending. Georgeroth. If you're hyphenating, though, I wouldn't worry, because the kid won't drop the hyphen if he thinks "George R/th" sounds weird.
201: Verity?
I tried to read the book linked in 185, but it was just so, so boring. And I'm fascinated by the study of names. It should have been about one seventh as long as it is. Every little piece of data was presented whether it proved anything or not.
Call him Gorgo
or, Georg.
Geo. R/th is flat, but if the last name he uses is going to be Wotherington-R/th, it'd sound fine. And as an adult, he can make his own decisions about euphony.
I think my kids think their mouthful of a hyphenated name is their name - I wouldn't expect either to drop a piece of it other than for marital recombination.
Another good name for JRoth's son: Babe.
Speaking of name changes, whoever decided that Western women would change their names upon marriage ought to be shot.
216: It's optional nowadays. If you'd rather not do it.
I tried to read the book linked in 185, but it was just so, so boring.
Sweet. I was vacillating between wanting to buy it and suspecting as much. Now I demand a short summary.
My son's hippy-born friend Tao (b. 1973) changed his name to Eli, as did Tao's friend Trout. (Trout's new name is Eli Wh/itney, which must be with him.)
217: There's optional, and then there's everyone in your family thinking this proves you're going to divorce in two years because wouldn't you only not change your name if you thought you'd need to leave?
Christ. I'm sharing my damn bank account.
I tried to read the book linked in 185, but it was just so, so boring. And I'm fascinated by the study of names. It should have been about one seventh as long as it is.
Oh well. There's an AJS paper by him and a co-author that is about a seventh as long, and says much the same thing. Lieberson is pretty careful, which partly accounts for the dryness. If you want flashy and fun, there's always the naming chapter in Freakonomics, which in good Econ style manages to relegate the sociology to a single footnote.
I remember once going through a friend's Berkeley High yearbook and coming upon a guy named Koala. My friend said she'd known him since elementary school, and I asked if he got teased. She looked at me blankly. "Teased about what?" Ah, Berkeley.
Cala, I hear you on the family pressure, but sometimes you do have to tell them to stick it.
215: I think he'd have to earn it. And based on my history, he won't.
213: One of the grandparents was, in fact, Georg (German), but we've kind of nixed that idea.
For anyone who's interested, the hyphenated name can be determined at the Dining Review/Food archives of the Pgh C/ty P/per, my name first (I think we're pretty committed to both kids having the same hyphenation).
Marital recombination is, in fact, the main concern.
Off to meetings, but more input is welcome!
The nickname "Topher" for Christopher is much more common than you'd think.
220 -- Yeah. for some reason a lot of people in Ellen's family still think (14 years gone by) that she changed her surname to mine when we got married.
I guess what I'm saying is that "A Matter of Taste" was written for an audience of sociologists who need to see actual data, rather than being written for me.
Yeah, I'm standing firm so far. I caved on the church wedding, but dammit, I like my rigid designator. I am not a light switch! (stamp the foot, bang the table.)
222: The Saucelito-Guacamole's did indeed live in Berkeley. Or north Oakland, I forget now.
208: We're going with "Cecelia" rather than the more common "Cecilia" because we like "Celia" as a nickname, and "Cilia" sounds like a mycological growth. I think we're safe on the song, too--it'll be more than 40 years old by the time she's old enough to be teased with it.
Also, I'm on board with the folks saying no to George Roth--there's limited euphony in two one syllable names. I say this as someone with such a name.
198 - I confess that I would call your son "Babe".
I like George R/th better than George Most-other-things.
My kids' last name will end in "inn", which when combined with the Jewish tradition of not using living relatives' or close friends' names & the ridiculous trendiness of many names I like (top 25 or so does not concern me; top 5 or 10 does), makes this surprisingly difficult.
For anyone who's interested, the hyphenated name can be determined at the Dining Review/Food archives of the Pgh C/ty P/per, my name first
I thought the food reviewers for the City Paper were named "Munch" and "DOOM". But that may be the Post-Gazette or Trib.
Lieberson
There's a paper that seems to be on this topic on his web page, so we're good.
(stamp the foot, bang the table.)
Ha! You can call your first child "Incredulous."
She looked at me blankly. "Teased about what?"
For some reason, this makes me angry.
198, 231: I would call him "Bobe".
("Incredula" for a girl.)
For some reason, this makes me angry.
Well, her own name is Ana/nda/mayi, if that makes you feel any better. Probably not.
Makes sense. You really don't like people you percieve as outside the mainstream being given the chance to think they're normal -- little Koala's life should have been a misery for him.
Why you feel this way I don't get, but it's consistent.
hang on, if you were at school in Yorkshire, wouldn't her name have been pronounced pretty much exactly the same as you pronounced the word "Leer"?
Come to think of it, yes.
JRoth: how 'bout "Anansi"?
("Atalanta" for a girl.)
"Cilia" (pronounced sil-ee-uh) is in fact the name of the hairs on a paramecium & inside your nose, but I think you're perfectly within your rights to nickname your daughter Celia even if her name is spelled Cecilia. But Cecelia's fine too of course. I'm a fan of that name too.
That's really one of the best asides and one of the best footnotes, ever. Close second: Frankfurt's alternative possibilities piece along the lines of "not defining my terms could be considered intellectual piracy. the reader should note that my Jolly Roger is fully unfurled."
I think it's more the naivete of the question, rather than the underlying facts.
241: It's consistent, and horrible.
No, LB's basically right. Except she left out your rage issues.
197: Descriptive nicknames from friends (or even just diminuitives) are one thing. Nicknames generated when misspellings or mispronounciations stick which are used mainly by people who don't actually like you that much are another matter, it seems to me. Then again, maybe I was just hypersensitive to this stuff.
Re: hyphenation: ugh, another sticking point. Like I said, I have a weird last name. It's caused a bit of guilt for me that I dropped one of my parents' names, but I felt like something had to go.
That's really one of the best asides and one of the best footnotes, ever.
Yeah. It's revenge for being made fun of by Kripke in N&N, and it manages to conjure up Saul's sputtering visage very well.
Oh, I dunno, I share a certain amount of feeling that it is somehow irresponsible to shelter people as much from the many realities of not-Berkeley as many people raised there seem to be.
Now I feel bad. That came out harsher than I meant it to be.
252: You have rage issues, too. Cripes, look at your pseud.
My wife has always used hers, without complaint from my side of the family, where nobody else does this; I think they must think it's part of the big-city/liberal package.
In my circles, we have seemed at times traditional/patriarchal for not foisting a hyphenation on the kids. A new, different name for all of us, or having the kids, or alternate kids, using their mother's surname would have been just dandy.
253 - As established by 41, you're mean and scary. (Also broad-shouldered.)
252: I'm pretty sure there are better ways for people to learn about the realities of the wider world than to be teased a lot as a small child.
In my circles, we have seemed at times traditional/patriarchal for not foisting a hyphenation on the kids.
I know leftist parents who gave their kids what was very similar to a hyphenated name -- "Firstname Motherslastname Fatherslastname". The girls usually say their name including all three parts, but the motherslastname is optional because it's not attached to the fatherslastname.
True. I recently looked back at an old thread where Buck commented, and the word velociraptor was used to describe me. And Buck likes me.
259: This is what we did. Also what my maternal great-great-great grandmother did as evidenced by 186.
I'm just saying --- There are any number of things to get annoyed with the Berkley set for; why on earth would you harp on something they get right?
259/262: I've see Fatherslast Motherslast too, for that matter.
Not realizing that someone might be teased for being named Koala ain't right.
I didn't think that ogged was saying the kid should have been teased (though he'll agree with that, won't you, Xerxes?), but that the Berkeley kid should not have been so shocked at the question, as evidence that the kid shared the same planet.
I'm pretty sure there are better ways for people to learn about the realities of the wider world than to be teased a lot as a small child.
Sure, but not even REALIZING that it was something people got teased for in the larger world? That's disconcerting, at the very least, don't you think?
it is somehow irresponsible to shelter people as much from the many realities of not-Berkeley as many people raised there seem to be.
I feel like I used to feel this way, but now I have trouble understanding it (weird as that is). Non-Berkeley will either intrude or it won't. Being cruel and abusive just for the sake of "toughening" someone up is ludicrous when done by the high school coach; it remains ludicrous when done by friends.
I'm inclined to hate people named "Koala," but I think that's a really charming story.
I know leftist parents who gave their kids what was very similar to a hyphenated name -- "Firstname Motherslastname Fatherslastname".
I hate this one, as someone possessed of a (potentially) future Motherslastname. Feels like such a wishy-washy halfway measure to me. Of course, I'm angling for my name uber alles, because I'm generous and giving like that.
266/267: Ok, I see your point and misread ogged at first, but I also lack context. Was rfts's friend really giving away a total lack of awareness that growing up in other places there would be more conformist pressures? Or was the friend more surprised that someone would expect that they did that too?
The last four male generations of my family have all had the same middle name. I don't really know why, but it seems like the kind of thing that it would be beneficial to continue, if only to avoid the Paradox Of Choice.
When was it that babies stopped being named after presidents/politicians? When Dwight entered the White House?
I like the story because (to me) it illustrates both what is right with Berkeley and part of what is wrong with it. My friend was really puzzled about what I was even asking about.
rfts's superhero slogan can be "Friend to the clueless!"
I can understand that if you'd been friends with Koala your whole life it would seem unexceptional for a kid to be named Koala. I never saw the humor in the name of a nearby town called "Forty Fort" until I went away to college.
272: Well, we do know someone who named his new baby Woodrow. They call him Woody, too, which strikes me as somewhat unfortunate.
A friend of the wife has four children. they have perfectly respectable Christian names, but for some reason she calls them by the nicknames of Bear, Mimi, Peaches and Munch.
It's worth telling again, because I enjoy it so, that my first/last name is so common that there were something in the neighborhood of a dozen or two of us at Ma Bell when I started there. There were multiple of us in my building.
The only problem I had with my given first name and its variants was the endless stream of 'Mikey likes it!' jokes.
I like the story because (to me) it illustrates both what is right with Berkeley and part of what is wrong with it.
This feels like a moderate form of the "Kooky Kalifornians" perspective. But often enough, the kooks are right. And five years after Berkeley (or wherever) adopts some bizarre-seeming policy, so does everyone else. That is, I'm not sure what the "wrong" part is, here.
272: Like Jimmy, Ronnie, Bill, George? How would you know?
How about "Morris"? I'm short on dead relatives, and I think that one's due for a comeback. "Mo!"
I mean more like Franklin Pierce Adams. Why was somebody born 12 years after Franklin Pierce died named after him? Now that's dedication to a politician. Or even guys like this, named after the reigning president. It calls to mind a feudal system, where the peasants would name a baby after the lord in hopes of grovelling more effectively before him.
Presidential naming emphasized both names usually:
Abraham Lincoln Marowitz
Theodore Roosevelt Jones
That is, I'm not sure what the "wrong" part is, here.
I found, living in Berkeley, that there was often a grating refrain of almost willful failure to understand why people would do oh, any number of unpleasant things that people do outside of Berkeley. There is also a strong tendency to not appreciate that anyone might dislike, say, an amplified zither concert outside their window at seven in the morning. It's not terrible, but it's also a bit irksome. The problem is not that they're kooky, it's that they are blinkered. It can be charming, too, and I liked living there.
I mean the name is due for a comeback, not the dead relative. No one wants to see zombie Poppi walking around eating brains.
283 - "Tuskahoma" sounds too much like "Tuskahomo", so it's right out.
According to the aforecited Babynamewizard, "Morris" is indeed ripe for a comeback, although certain black entertainers have kept it in the spotlight more than my proposed girl's name.
283: For what it's worth, parents who put 'Julius Ceasar' in their childs name are far more worrisome than those who use `Koala'.
The problem is not that they're kooky, it's that they are blinkered. It can be charming, too, and I liked living there.
Fair enough. I think I used to be much closer to, and even well past, ogged's position--"It's wrong!"--but somewhere along the way I really changed my mind. I blame GA and Obama. It turns out the basics of life aren't as immutable as I thought.
Presidential naming emphasized both names usually:
Abraham Lincoln Marowitz
Theodore Roosevelt Jones
Not true among the black people I've known -- Roosevelt and Lincoln are common enough, but as stand-alone first names.
284. True fact: First Wife's first generation in US named the sons George Washington Davies, Thomas Jefferson Davies and Benjamin Franklin Davies
Morris
I have a dead Grandpa by that name, and a coeval friend named Maurice who pronounces it that way.
No one wants to see zombie Poppi walking around eating brains
On the contrary -- people would pay good money for that.
282: Speaking as one with personal experience, that name could be ok as long as a certain cat food advertisement isn't resurrected. I can still hear the cruel taunts of the children, "Don't be finicky, Morris!"
I think the Morris The Cat ads stopped running around 1992. Kids of the future should be safe.
And if he turns out gay, everyone can call him "Big Mo"!
People spend thousands of dollars on engagement rings.
People spend hundreds of dollars getting waxed.
People spend hundreds of dollars buying bottled water.
People spend hundreds of dollars on all kinds of silly, unnecessary things.
If I have a son, I'll name him Kobe!
299: The magick of rational actors in the free market revealed!
First Wife's first generation in US named the sons George Washington Davies, Thomas Jefferson Davies and Benjamin Franklin Davies
And now Daniel Boone Davies.
297: According to this website 9Lives had a Morris ad campaign in 2004, and even now he's being used in a campaign to save homeless cats--
http://www1.9lives.com/default.aspx?page=morrismain&mn=2,20#mHistory
244 actually gets my vote, but since Child 1 has a Greek goddess name, I think I have to concede that for #2.
I don't get 243.
Oh, I didn't mention my preferred boy name: Telemachus. For some reason this seems faintly more plausible to me than Odysseus, who's my favorite.
My wife assumes I'm joking, but fears that I'm not, so she can't call my bluff.
I found, living in Berkeley, that there was often a grating refrain of almost willful failure to understand why people would do oh, any number of unpleasant things that people do outside of Berkeley
Call me perverse, but I find this rather charming.
I found it both charming and infuriating.
As I've already made abundantly clear. Stifle, me.
Why would anyone change their name from Trout? That right there is just awesome.
Oh, and belatedly to LB upthread: In a couple of years, I recommend Keith Robinson's Henry Reed books. Sally might like them too, but I'm suddenly thinking that they'd work for Newt.
They might even work as a read-aloud now. They're dated, but mostly not in important ways.
I want to name my kids Hokey-Pokey and Hawaiian Punch.
Friend of mine went to a Rudolf Steiner school. Large numbers of his classmates had names that would have led to regular beatings anywhere else. 'C/loudberry', 'L/eofwin' etc, [those are real examples]
My grandfather is a R/onald, and my grandmother was M/uriel. Both proper north-of-england-circa-1920 names.
One of my grandmothers was a Muriel too! That grandfather was a Vincent.
The paternal grandparent's names were almost stereotypically Glasgow-catholic -- Thomas and Annie.
312: I think Hawaiian Punch would feel left out in that family. What about Easy-Peasy instead? As a bonus, this also means that your kid will be destined to sleep around and spread joy.
My others were Joan and Harry -- you can really tell which pair of grandparents there came of age circa WWI and which were WWII. I love finding out what people's grandparents' names were.
David and Janet- Maternal
Clarence and Marie- Paternal
Clarence went by Charlie
I can't believe this threat made it to 300 without anyone bringing up the SNL skit about a couple deliberating over baby names. The father (Alec Baldwin, IIRC) rejects every name on the grounds that it can be twisted, however improbably, into a scornful nickname. Just when the skit starts to get a little tedious, it springs the punchline: the father's name is Aswipe ("that's az-vee-pay")
I love finding out what people's grandparents' names were.
Mere/dith and Aug/usta
Lawr/ence and Eliza/beth
(Eliza/beth goes by "Lib", which may be unique)
316 has it all wrong.
Easy-peasy will be celibate.
Girls named Chasity are the sluttiest, followed closely by Abstinence or Prudence.
Ho-bag would be a good name.
Maternal Grandparents: Louis and Kathryn.
Paternal Grandparents: Sam and Josephine.
If/when we have kids, the other side of the family has all the cool names.
Ladislav and Marcela is cooler than Tom and Margaret.
Ma/ry and Jos/eph
(I probably don't need to google proof that one)
She/ila and Art/hur
325 beat me to the punch of teasing everyone who's google-proofing their grandparent's names.
311: I loved the Henry Reed books, and had completely forgotten them. The road-trip starting in San Francisco's Chinatown, with the trailer full of fireworks? Excellent.
and 270: Yeah, I hate it too. Not thinking the whole name thing is a problem, and doing whatever thoughtlessly doesn't bother me. Working out a careful plan to be somewhat more gender equitable than the default, but not going all the way because that would just be too much burns me.
Oh come on, H-Geeb, I doubt that there have been many other married couples named Mere/dith and Aug/usta.
Paternal: James and Amelia
Maternal: Joseph and Eula Mae
328b: Maybe it would mollify you to learn that the Motherslastname has 10 letters including three Y's and a "cz", while the Fatherslastname is shared by many famous people including a Hall of Fame slugger.
Dora and Bertram (paternal)
Anna (Danish) and Arthur (maternal)
All safely dead for at least 17 years.
225. John, I've never come across Topher this side of the ditch, is it regional? I spent my early adolescence trying to resurrect Kester (an 18th century version of Christopher), but nobody would play.
331: Oh, euphony's a fine argument -- Buck's weird name is what got us to hyphenation. I've just never seen euphony used to privilege the woman's name over the man's. (And my apologies for being rude about your naming practices.)
Anna (Danish) and Arthur (maternal)
This gives me an interesting picture of reproduction among members of OFE's species -- an otherwise humanlike organism with three sexes. The mother's and father's roles are essentially the same as in humans, but successful reproduction is impossible unless the third parent shows up with breakfast pastries the next morning.
We use my wife's much simpler LN, actually a simpler version of it, for takeout and reservations. Euphony? How about convenience?
three Y's and a "cz", ...Hall of Fame slugger
Ned is related to Carl Yastrzemski!
334 is nicer than the Emersonian thing I was working on. Who needs chickens and crabs?
Oh, I didn't mention my preferred boy name: Telemachus. For some reason this seems faintly more plausible to me than Odysseus, who's my favorite.
Obviously the reason is that with Telemachus for a son, you are Odysseus.
I always thought "Marpessa" was the Greek name that more people should use. But, you know, "piss"...sad.
My mother used to work in a women's prison. Some of the women who gave birth while incarcerated apparently delighted in sticking it to the man by giving their kids outrageous names. I wonder what ever happened to ole' Aquarius Marijuana Jefferson.
Oh, and Katherine is right about 320
334. Nah, she just wasnted to troll Unfogged.
If I'd had kids I'd have called the girl Drosophila and the boy Melanogaster.
Aquarius Jefferson seems to have been an extra in a movie filmed in the Jacksonville area.
332 - I knew a girl named Patience in college who had the following fortune cookie fortune Scotch-taped to her door: "Patience is the key to happiness."
Mark and Carol; Clarence and Ruth.
I love finding out what people's grandparents' names were.
Glenn & Maxine, Bob and Jamie.
Thomas Harold, going by Harold, and Elsie; Patrick and Alice.
My mother's parents: Aduel and Anne.
My dad's: Levin ("Lefty") and Eleanor.
Yay! I feel so indulged. And indeed, I have yet to tire of hearing grandparent names.
And indeed, I have yet to tire of hearing grandparent names.
How about great-grandparent names?!?!? (all born about 110 years ago)
Au/stin and Laura
Van E/vrie and Christian
John and Doro/thea
Matt/hew and Ida
Beatrice and Erik
Alfred ("Al") and Rita ("mean bitch")
James and Winifred; Mario and Eleanor.
My grandfathers proved that nicknames can be real names.
Jack + Doris (that was his real name)
Dan + Marcia (he may have officially been Daniel, but I've got no way to know)
How about great-grandparent names?
Bring 'em on! I am ashamed to say that I don't know mine.
paternal, Marguerite and Harry
maternal, Clara and Bill
More interesting to me have always been my maternal grandmother's sisters: the three were Clara, Hazel and Lillian
352: My still-living great-grandpa is named Archibald, which you don't hear much these days. I don't remember any of the rest.
Clara, Hazel, and Lillian sound very literary and also quite dashing, especially as a group. Having the Lillian in there adds a certain zip to the other two, also.
My grandmother had sisters named Mildred, Louise and Frances, who was nicknamed "Ank".
I don't get 243.
Anansi is an African spider god who featured heavily in some hippy- and post-hippy-era children's stories. Some closely related stories (or "stories I heard around the same time") featured a girl named Atalanta, hence the connection.
I am ashamed to say that I don't know mine.
I've heard people say this before, and it always puzzles me. That said, here are mine:
Raymond and Nell
Orange and Jessie
Jacob and Mary
Dominic and Winifred
Orange? I suppose it keeps people from writing mean limericks about you.
360: Yes, it was a very distinctive name. He went by an unrelated nickname, though.
I've heard people say this before, and it always puzzles me.
It doesn't surprise me, but in my own case it's presumably because I'm adopted, as was my father. Which sort of means that recounting my grandparents' names is a bit like pulling names out of a hat in the first place.
Rose & Jack
Mary & James
Herman & Johanna
Elise & Christopher
(I wouldn't vouch for those last four)
Grandparents' siblings:
Rosemary, Nora, Patricia, Paul, Hugh, Robert, Mary Lou
James, Robert, Joan, Warren, Frank, Kenneth
Agnes, Mary, Margaret, Richard, Jane
Lawrence, Anne
Probably forgetting a few in there.
Paternal grandparents: Gerard and Judith (Jerry and Judy).
Maternal grandparents: Doris and Frederick (Fred).
This made me feel like there was something wrong with me, because I could only remember Gerard's and Doris' names at first. Fred was my impulse for Doris' husband, but my uncle is also named Fred. I know for a fact that Doris' brother and his son are both named Charles, and my grandparents couldn't have done the same thing in their family, could they??? But after a little more memory-probing, apparently they did. And Judy was just a mental block, I guess. It's not like I have any fainter memories or any fewer reminders of her than of Jerry.
On the "why would he be teased" question, there's a difference between genuine ignorance--basically good, or at least neutral--and rhetorical ignorance, which is infuriating. I think most people who say things like "why would he be teased?" know the answer perfectly well; they ask not because they're naive, but because they're trying to point out their moral superiority in a passive-aggressive way.
And of course if you react appropriately by thumping them, they get that aggrieved look and accuse you of violence. Such people are impossible to deal with.
366: Fair enough, passive aggressive sucks. If that was what was being done, the correct answer is presumably `because he grew up in a civilized part of the world', and leave it at that.
rhetorical ignorance, which is infuriating
Okay, true. Genuine ignorance of what Koala would get teased about is enviable; feigned ignorance deserves a swift kick.
358: Anansi is also featured in these more-recent novels.
Paternal great-grandparents:
Willard and Hana
John and Laura
Maternal great-granparents:
Calvin and Ethel
ack, I can't find these records.
Well, one of my paternal grandparents died a long time before I was born, and the other died when I was seven, then my father died when I was twelve, so that explains my not knowing so much about that line.
I know my maternal grandfather's father was Max, but I've forgotten his mother's name. And, actually, I've just been able to figure out that my maternal grandmother's parents were Louisa and John. Nothing nearly so exciting as Orange.
Maternal grandparents: Herman and Katie
Paternal grandparents: Will and Minnie
Paternal: Henry and Myrtle.
Maternal: Marjorie and Morris. Marjorie divorced Morris before I was born and remarried to Hershel.
It's really pathetic that the one great-grandfather I actually knew in person is the one whose first name I can't remember (or find easily on the genealogy sites). He was always "Great-Granddaddy [LastName]."
My maternal grandmother's siblings were John, Richard (Dick), Albert (Albie), Sidney, Louise, Edward (Ted), and Thomas (Tommy). My maternal grandfather's siblings were Saul, Gertrude (Gertie), and Yetta. I enjoy the way both sets really telegraph their ethnic origins.
357 -- "Mildred" is a very nice name that you never hear nowadays. The three bats in Pogo were named Bewitched, Bothered and Bemildred.
I just realized that I don't know my maternal grandmother's name.
I had a great-aunt Mildred (Harold's sister). Never knew her that well.
Haha, "Yetta".
My father had a great-aunt that everyone called "Aunt Sister". And my fiancee's great-grandmother was the recursive "Grandma Baba".
I'm pretty sure there is a Mildred among my great-aunts, none of whom (except Betty) I really knew very well. It was the 6th most popular girl's name in the second decade of the 20th Century.
I envy you all with this deep knowledge of your ancestry. Of my great-grandparents, I know the name of a mere one. This speaks a great deal to how much my relatives have historically liked one another.
I could ask my parents and collect the four names -- I'm sure they know -- but I don't know any of them. The one that I've heard a lot of stories about was known to my father as Nana, so that's the name I've heard her talked about under.
In my case, it's because we have long generations -- having your first kid close to thirty, as everyone in my family's done for quite a while back, means much less contact with prior generations. The three grandparents I knew were nice, but really old by the time I knew them, so we never were very close.
I also had a great-aunt Mildred. She was the only one of her siblings (four sisters) who lived long enough for me to get to know her.
Yeah, I suck. Something like 15 great aunts and uncles and I can only remember the name Lucille. Some of the others are on the tip of my tongue, and I know there are some fabulous doozies in there along the lines of Myrna and Alvin, but damned if I can recall 'em. I think Alvin is a legit name. Also there was a Ruben.
382: Okay, but we've got long generations in my family too, and I only knew one of my grandparents, but I still know all my great-grandparents' names (and much more about them), and quite a ways further back on some lines. I do know a lot more about my father's family than my mother's, which suggests that maybe it's a cultural thing; certain groups may put a higher value on genealogy than others.
Okay, it's a combination of long generations and dirt-poor (in the 'poor enough for your life to be disorganized' sense) when you get that far back. Nana spent most of her marriage moving from one apartment in Brooklyn and Queens to another, trying to hide from her abusive husband. (Who was apparently the handsomest man in NY. After he finally drank himself to death, the story is that the guy at the morgue who'd called Nana in to identify him said, sympathetically "It's so sad for you to have lost your son so young.")
So, not much connection on that side of the family to any prior history. And on the Irish side, we lost a lot of connection when my grandparents immigrated -- while I know who my cousins in Ireland are, we're not really in touch.
My grandfather is still alive, and hale and hearty at 93, so my sister's kids have a great-grandfather. My nephew is in his teens, so there is a real possibility of 'great-great-grandfatherhood' for him at some point.
I only know one or two of my great-grandparent's names; they were all dead by about 1930 on my mother's side, and by about 1920 on my father's. My paternal grandmother (barely) remembered Queen Victoria's funeral, and told me about it, which gives you an idea of when she was born.
Hmm greats are tough.
The ones I can recall are Axel, Dorothy, and Myrtle
I actually know Koala from Berkeley High. I think its a good bet that he doesn't understand why someone from somewhere else would get teased for a name like that.
I agree with everyone that this is a bad aspect of Berkeley. It is related to the sense that people there are just ignorant about the rest of the world. And to the holier-than-thou attitude that is all too prevalent there. But I can't articulate it better than that.
(Also, as an aside: I think all three of my names have been ridiculed in this thread...)
"Myrtle" is a sweet name. Anybody know if the tree was named after a person of that name, or the name is a reference to the tree?
Eek, I wonder if I know you. Presumably we at least know people in common. I have a feeling JRoth and I do, too.
I've got:
Grandparents:
David and Kate (not a nickname)
William and Le\ola (she took a nickname early on based on her maiden name; he went by his middle name, now the #3 girl's name)
Great-grandparents:
Matthew and Caroline (went by Mimi)
Joseph and Alice
William and Josephine
Ben and Leona
For the most part, perfectly ordinary and respectable WASP names. The only weird one I've got is a great-great grandmother who was named Victo\rine.
OK, redfox, this is weird, because first I was going to say that I'm pretty sure that I know the friend-of-Koala you named in 240.
Weirder still, on the coincidence front, are my grandparents' names:
Paternal: Edward/Tessa
Maternal: Daniel/Yetta
Two Yettas in the same thread! What are the chances? I double-checked your grandparents' siblings names, and I don't think we're related.
Grandparents:
Harry & Dera
Wint & June
Dera is one of my favorite names of all time.
Of my greats I can only remember the fathers of my grandmothers: Eber and Pink, respectively.
Ha! Well, she does know a lot of people, so I wouldn't be at all surprised. The Yetta thing does surprise me, though.
Edwin and Joan (pronounced Joanne)
Mabel, Albert, Cecile, and Jacob
Alpheus Dumbleton, Charles C., Mary Ann, Susan Minerva, Willem Henrik, Maria Helena, William Frederick, Emma.
Alpheus Dumbleton
Oh boy! If I wrote fiction, I would want to steal this name immediately.
JK Rowling got there first (or close enough)
Isn't there a teacher at Hogwarts named Minerva as well?
I think we see the basis for Emerson's feigned indifference to thousand-comment discussions of Harry Potter. Doesn't want to see uncomfortable family secrets dragged out from under the rug, does he?
Living in a town that borders Berkeley did not prevent my names, first and last, from being used in teasing. Only the Chinese middle name was never made fun of. But do people still make fun of names in high school? That's kind of pathetic.
401: Not that much, I don't think, but A. had known K. since they were in third grade or something. (Of course, you may be asking for some other reason that I've missed among the many comments.)
I enjoy the way both sets really telegraph their ethnic origins.
I know what you mean. Paternal grandfather's immediate family included Cornelius, Kathleen and Margaret; maternal grandfather's, Romano, Renato and Assunta. No Yettas.
No particular reason for asking; just thinking that there are pre-high school schools much more sheltered than Berkeley High - which isn't actually that sheltered in a lot of ways. I find it odd just how much the picture of Berkeley that comes through in the comments on this blog differs from the picture of Berkeley I have from my own experience.
Which is to say that the people I know from Berkeley would be more likely to say, of have indeed said before, things like "That must have been a difficult name to have while growing up" or even, probably not to the person with that name, "What an unfortunate name."
rfts: I'm not sure what makes you think we do, but I doubt we know anyone in common. I live in Pittsburgh, and have lived in NY, Miami, and NJ. I spent one afternoon in Berkeley 11 years ago.
OTOH, I'd bet money that I'm within 2 degrees of separation (probably 1) from Dr. Oops and Ned, but that's just a Pittsburgh thing. Hey, LB, when are you coming out for a meetup? The eastern OH crowd can drive in.
The Dumbleton family (more distant relatives) is small enough that I was able to trace it from Rhode Island to New Hampshire to New York to Michigan and Iowa entirely from internet sources. "Dumbleton" was my ggf Hiams's middle name, from his own grandfather Alpheus Dumbleton. I also am descended from one Spink Hiams.
Dr. Oops is at the medical center that ate Oakland?
JRoth: I grew up in Pittsburgh and dated someone who was a free weekly editor for a while.
Hey, LB, when are you coming out for a meetup? The eastern OH crowd can drive in.
When I can pin Dr. Oops down to admitting she has a free weekend in which to be visited.
We have an eastern Ohio crowd? Who?
412 - Rfts and I are currently in Cleveland, the City What Rocks, and I believe Helpy Chalky is moving to Ober/lin. There may be others.
Holy flurking schnit. Metrosexual? Occasional writer for the NYTimes?
LB: When someone (sorry, can't recall who) got a tenure-track position in eastern OH, several people perked up with relocation advice.
Stand up, Ohioans!
Nope, different editor, formerly of In/Pitt/sburgh, much doofier.
JRoth it's not nice to make fun of short mammals that way.
I recently went through Elyria at 3 AM on the train again, but this time I was asleep.
Oh, rob helpy-chalk's the one moving to Cleveland? or someplace similar. That would be an excellent meetup, although trying to subtly arrange it so that redfoxtailshrub would cook without looking like a mooch might be difficult.
And me without my "Altweekly Editors of Pittsburgh" media guide.
Heh, he's pretty googleproof as it is, so I'll just say it (with slashes): Ste/phen Se/gal. Perhaps you don't know him! Also, in middle school I "went out with" Man/ny The/iner's little brother.
I would love to host or attend a Cleveland meetup at some point.
I once had a friend whose nephew was named Volcano Aquarius, know as Cano. And a friend from college named her offspring Sunshine and Liberty, but gave them more conventional middle names "just in case".
My son has a plethora of names: FirstName KoreanName MiddleName Mother'sLast Father'sLast. Social Security cannot cope with it all; they shortened my last name to an initial.
Grandparents: Maren & Bernt [the Norwegians}
Philip and Julia [the WASPs]
Assorted Norwegian relatives: Gudrun, Sigrid, Wanda, Harald, Borghild, Kristian, Ingeborg.
My first name was a lot more popular in the 1800s than it is now, which is why I can have FirstName@att.net for an email address. And why I have to spell it in order to get people to pronounce it correctly.
Is it possible to name a boy Walker in our post-Talladega Nights world?
352: My still-living great-grandpa is named Archibald, which you don't hear much these days.
Mine too! Except he's dead. I only narrowly avoided it myself. (Archibaldness, that is, not death.)
We will none of us avoid death; but many manage to avoid Archibaldness. (Male-pattern Archibaldness?)
maternal gparents: Ed/ward and Sus/anna
paternal gparents: Sea/mus (offically James) and No/ra but practically everyone in their traditional dirt-poor be-thatch-cottage'd West of Ireland area called them by their nicknames, Son/ny and Ba/be.
Today, whilst resting between bouts of cleaning [spend a week in hospital and things start growing in the fridge], I chanced upon The Maury Povich Show. I know it annoys B when people make snide comments about others' children's names, but do not, do not ever name a poor, defenceless girlchild "Jaila".
I would reckon that almost all Archibaldness is male-pattern Archibaldness.
