makes me jump out of my skin. It sets my teeth on edge.
Does it raise the hair on the back of your neck?
My eyebrows go catapulting off my face. My fingers stand on end.
My ears meet at the back of my head.
My vascular system screeches to a halt.
15: You mean, do they wobble to and fro?
My belly button deepens.
Belly button to spine!
That is what my yoga teacher says all the time.
Anyhow, this:
Much as I respect these efforts -- and much as I want to be happy -- I would prefer a science that explores how we can stop making one another miserable, I suspect that in the long run such a science would actually prove more conducive to happiness. I also suspect that any scientist who took up the study would soon be interested in noise.
*Not surprisingly (to noise researchers anyway), Daniel Nettle reports in Happiness: The Science Behind Your Smile that one of the things you can't do to increase your happiness is "get used" to a distressing noise. If anything the noise will make you unhappier as time goes on.
Is this really true? It seems like I sometimes get used to an initially bothersome noise. Like for example a low background noise when I am sleeping somewhere unfamiliar.
When I think of happiness and unhappiness resulting from politics, I think less of the vindication of principle or the fulfillment of purpose than the brute pleasure of victory: cf. the inevitable post-election "your worldview has been repudiated by a margin of 1.7%: flee to [Canada/Somalia] if you love [healthcare/guns] so much" Facebook messages.
Some jackass started using his iPad as a boom box at the playground the other day. Sat down right next to my wife and I while we were watching our kid. He was cranking Nickleback. WHO DOES THAT?
We can't handle confrontation, so we just left.
I have no problem with ordinary urban noise -- traffic, planes, etc -- and I don't have any problem with ordinary human noise -- people arguing/laughing, kids playing, etc. I can either zone it out or it doesn't bother me at all. But, other people's music drives me a bit crazy. Especially bass frequencies. I'd punish severely people who live in flats and have sub-woofers. Someone in our building has one, and the bass throb is something I just can't tune out.
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So, Comic-Con is crowded. Apparently being a geek actually requires a great deal if socializing. What's the point?
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Will Wilkinson has done a lot of work on "happiness," which should tell you something.
"Hey, studies done in India show that happiness has little to do with political power, wealth, material possessions or social status. Family, religion, peace, a nice comfortable hierarchy to fit into, and let me show those good ole ante-bellum days on the plantation, and the great happy music they sang in the cotton fields."
This kind of thing.
After the revolution, when those who want more than a bean sprout a day with a dog under the Bodhi-tree are better off, then we can talk about simplification.
The motion in 24 is carried and signed into law.
25: Holy shit, has it ever been this year.
You here too? I was kind of wondering if anyone I knew online was.
Much as I respect these efforts -- and much as I want to be happy -- I would prefer a science that explores how we can stop making one another miserable, I suspect that in the long run such a science would actually prove more conducive to happiness. I also suspect that any scientist who took up the study would soon be interested in noise.
Sifu has it exactly right. The last sentence doesn't follow at all.
My major biases on this topic:
1. Noise does not bother everyone equally. I've interacted with people who have the television on constantly, and they are genuinely not bothered by something that I find tremendously agitating and distressing.
2. All noises are not the same to all people. I find crickets, cicadas, and frogs to be comforting, no matter how loud and obtrusive their noises. I find white noise of a bathroom fan to be subtly irritating no matter how familiar it is. Other people feel the exact opposite.
3. It is my observation that most Americans -- not just scientists -- shy away from discussing or studying anything that smacks of power dynamics. They do not want to ask a question that might threaten their cherished belief that the US is a nation of individuals on equal footing interacting with each other equally. And any responsible study of "how we make each other miserable" would run very quickly into issues of power.
re: 30.1 and 2
Heh, I don't mind background TV at all, but I concur on 2. I can't stand fan-noise/air-con noise. Some people don't even hear it.
29: Not today, but I was around all day Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Thought of Flip while checking out the Archer panel on Thursday.
Further to my #3, this article on an Obama fundraiser and Hyatt hotels stockholder is remarkable for its ability to tiptoe up to an issue and then sidestep it completely.
The topic is why this powerful and wealthy woman was a more active supporter of the Obama campaign in '08 than she has been in '12. The article discusses tensions between labor leaders who have criticized Hyatt's treatment of housekeepers, and includes this remarkable quote:
"I feel a personal connection with the employees at the hotel company," Ms. Pritzker said in the interview. "The union attacks - it hurts. I don't like it. It should be an issue between Hyatt and the unions, not become something personal to me."
The reporters told this story as a competing set of claims -- the unions say this, Prizker and Hyatt say that. They do that because in the US today, it is often viewed as unforgivably partisan to make explicit the power dynamics at work.
Even assessing the truth of the claims is apparently beyond the scope of the article -- it reports that Hyatt fired housekeepers and replaced them with lower-paid contractors, but doesn't spell out what the unions claim the problems are nor ask Prizker the basis for her extraordinary belief that "Hyatt" is somehow separable from her.
30, 31: Man, do I hate white noise -- I'm miserable all summer with fans and air conditioning. Complicated street noise or other people's music rolls off like water off a duck's back: sirens, shouting, minor explosions -- if I don't think it's my problem, I don't even hear it. But a steady drone and I want to stab people.
Unions are people, my friends.
It is my observation that most Americans -- not just scientists -- shy away from discussing or studying anything that smacks of power dynamics.
Humanities scholars win!
31: I find background TV annoying when I'm talking to someone but AC and fans are fine unless loud enough to cover the conversation.
The DE was the reverse, she liked the TV on all the time. It's a good thing we had several remotes around with operative mute buttons so we could communicate when we wanted to.
In the last few years I've come to really despise stores and restaurants that pipe their elevator music out on to the street.
It's a small thing, but it annoys me to an irrational degree for some reason.
33
The topic is why this powerful and wealthy woman was a more active supporter of the Obama campaign in '08 than she has been in '12. ...
I thought the interesting part of the article was the revelation that she was deliberately targeted by labor because she was a prominent Obama supporter. Not surprising if this discourages rich people from backing Obama.
A standoff between labor and Hyatt hotels had been brewing for years over working conditions for housekeepers. By 2009, union officials decided to target Ms. Pritzker because of her ties to the president.
33: The article says Pritzker's family own the Hyatt hotel chain (so, not just a stockholder - or is there a difference?)
In any case, the piece reads like a hand-wringing exercise on behalf of Ms. Pritzker, who's just trying to be helpful and so it's hard to understand why she would be given a hard time by mean people.
Agreed that in the US today, it is often viewed as unforgivably partisan to make explicit the power dynamics at work, however.
I was trying to avoid the word "heiress," which I think is kind of problematic. Majority stockholder? I don't know if that's true. Isn't that what ownership is?
Majority stockholder? I don't know if that's true. Isn't that what ownership is?
Hyatt appears to be publicly traded so that's likely what they mean.
I don't love summer fan noises but the feeling of an oscillating fan endlessly re-encroaching on my face is worse. I can't stand loud computer fans. I don't mind other people's music much if it's at a normal volume, but it's horrible if it's very quiet and all I get are the weird tinny peaks and bass. The person two cubicles over does this to me sometimes and I die.
I have a friend who can't stand eating noises. Me, I don't really care. But when he IM's me "MUST...KILL...ALL...HUMANS," I know his officemate is eating an apple.
I don't know, I just don't see how she and others can't see that this is a problem:
She does plan to join him on the campaign trail this month, but that could prove awkward, given that the president is pounding Mr. Romney for some of the same practices of which Ms. Pritzker or her family business is accused - housing significant wealth in offshore trusts and treating workers poorly.
Feeling aggrieved because you're proving to be an awkward presence seems rather dense to me. She might consider putting her money where her mouth is, or something.
It's really not apparent that she's a majority stockholder, herself, considering all the other heirs. I suppose she might have bought out cousins, etc, but that's not what you see in the public accounts. She's on the board -- originally in the fall of 2009 designated as an independent director, but various business entities she actually does control do enough business with Hyatt that her independence was questioned and withdrawn. I can see why she might feel aggrieved that people blame her personally for the August 2009 firing of people in Boston.
Then it's up to her to make a public statement explaining things, isn't it? As far as I know, labor is not completely crazy, and is capable of hearing an explanation about how she's on their side.
The noise thing is has to do with "hedonic adaptation"
People get used to pretty much everything. One of the few thing people don't get used to is noise:
I would rather be around loud noises than be in prison, but people get used to being in prison.
people get used to positive things too. A bigger house isn't going to make you happier in 5 years. One of the few things that people don't get use to and increases their long-term happiness is cosmetic surgery.
45
It's really not apparent that she's a majority stockholder, herself, ...
She isn't. According to Hyatt's proxy as of 4/16/12 she owned (in trust) 6.1% of the shares with 8.1% of the voting power (there are two classes of shares). The Pritzker family in all owns 57.1% of the shares (including in trust) with 76.1% of the voting power. Her cousin Thomas J. Pritzker owns about twice as much stock and runs the company. As the article states the unions are picking on her because she was a prominent Obama supporter not because of anything she did personally (with respect to their labor dispute with Hyatt).
A moment in teh Google reveals that the Pritzkers even as a family don't have a majority stake in the company in terms of number of shares. However, they hold a shit ton of the Class B shares (10 votes a share) vs the regular Class A shares (1 vote a share) so they don't need a majority stake to control the company. As a family they still control a huge majority of the votes. However, it appears that they've basically entered into an agreement to have their shares vote the way the board recommends.
44
Feeling aggrieved because you're proving to be an awkward presence seems rather dense to me. ...
Not to me. This is like expecting a wife not to feel aggrieved after the husband she put through law school turns around and divorces her.
Obama has done fuck-all for labor. If picketing his wealthy supporters is a way to get on the radar, I'm all for it.
51
Obama has done fuck-all for labor. If picketing his wealthy supporters is a way to get on the radar, I'm all for it.
Blowing up the White House would get labor on the radar too but that doesn't mean it is a good idea.
And whether or not attacking Obama's rich supporters is good politics you can hardly expect it to be without a downside in this case less money for the Obama campaign.
While the analogy in 44 is silly, Shearer is right to point out that there are stakes to creating these kinds of dilemmas. The alternative is to be a loyal coalition member, ask for nothing, and get less.
A friend of mine has written about dilemma actions, which have a long history in organizing, in relation to the DREAMers' victory.
Dilemma actions are strategically planned events that place the movement's target or opponent in a dilemma in which no matter his response, the movement's strategic goal is advanced.
Blowing up the White House would get labor on the radar too but that doesn't mean it is a good idea.
"You were wrong and I was right. The whole damn world believes in dynamite."
(The Los Angeles labor movement has made more gains in the past dynamite-less 15 years, IMHO.)
I think the downside to the union of the Obama campaign having a little less money is outweighed by the upside of putting the Obama campaign on notice and getting a mention in the New York Times. The downside of having the Obama campaign have a little less money is substantially smaller than the downside of blowing up the White House.
That's funny that you want my take on the happiness research. Sherry was into it, but I only know what I've read in the popular press. My father, however, is a prominent psychoaccoustician, and famous in some tiny circles for his research on noise and annoyance.
It seems to me it never occurs to people in New York that their noise might disturb anyone. I am on a fairly full train car right now where some guy was just playing a video on his phone of some little kid dancing to crappy music that was at once in distinct and quite loud. It had ceased to concern me that my brain goes straight for fantasies of violence toward people who do this kind of thing.
Your ear never really filters out all the noise in NYC, or mine doesn't. Anyway when I'm on the A train for 35 minutes coming home I partly shut it out and then, walking out onto a pretty quiet street, I suddenly realize how relieved I am not to be trapped with a lot of noise.
Wow, you people don't like white noise?* I actually have a Marpac white noise generator in my home. You know, one of those squat, cylindrical thingies you see at therapists' offices. I bid on a vintage one on eBay one time, in a nice metal casing, but didn't get it.
*is this where I'm supposed to call you racists?
55
I think the downside to the union of the Obama campaign having a little less money is outweighed by the upside of putting the Obama campaign on notice and getting a mention in the New York Times. ...
This depended on Obama's reaction. He could have stood by his longtime supporter and thrown the union under the bus. Time will tell whether throwing her under the bus instead was the right decision politically.
Isn't it a little overly dramatic to exclaim that Obama has thrown Priztker under the bus? One would think that she stands on her own two feet.
I am also someone who hates white noise, but particularly fans. (What other kinds of white noise are there? Engine noises from cars, helicopters and trains put me almost automatically to sleep). I put on the radio (preferred) or tv (living where I can't get NPR well), to drown out the noises of fans and upstairs neighbours' very quiet music. I feel bad for my roommate because it must be annoying but I just can't deal with quiet. Everything sounds louder somehow. I remember being out in the middle of nowhere SK and it was so quiet it hurt my ears.
And people chewing sometimes makes me stabby. This seems to be getting better now that I haven't had a family dinner in ages. Or sat next to someone eating Doritos (the most annoying snack ever - the combination of the smell and the crunch makes me murderous).
But city noises, traffic and people, are perfect background for my life. Luckily, I live on a road now. Although, the frogs and crickets can drown out the traffic noises.
My father, however, is a prominent psychoaccoustician, and famous in some tiny circles for his research on noise and annoyance.
This strikes me as hilarious. Have you and he been secretly experimenting on your neighbors?
The creepy ice cream truck has switched from La Cucaracha (to which I had become inured) to Casey Would Waltz With a Strawberry Blonde. I wonder if it signals the availability of some new variety of weed. Whatever, it's making me feel super-stabby.
58: No, it's where you're supposed to admit to being a racist, you racist.
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NMM to Celeste Holm, the original girl who cain't say no and, I assume, the last surviving cast member of All About Eve.
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65: Nice obit here. She seems to have been pretty community-minded. Nice.
It's funny, I didn't even remember she was in Oklahoma or All About Eve. The role I remember best is her role as the sidekick in High Society (she plays Liz Imbrie, the photographer).
The movie is a star-powered remake of The Philadelphia Story -- as I recall, they soften a lot of the barbs.
Ninety-five is a good run.
I am happier just knowing the word "psychoacoustician" exists.
Well, she wasn't in the movie of Oklahoma so one does forget. All About Eve, however, is a wonderful performance that feels like it couldn't have been given by anyone else.
She gets a few of the movie's best lines--In a heated argument, Hugh Marlowe as her playwright husband says "That bitter cynicism of yours is something you've acquired since you left Radcliffe!" to which she responds, "The cynicism you refer to, I acquired the day I discovered I was different from little boys!"
The year Elia Kazan won a lifetime Oscar and many actors protested because of his role in Hollywood blacklisting, she gave interviews defending him, and I had to say to myself "she's old and probably not especially politically-minded," but otherwise, yes, she seems to have been a mensch.
And of course awfully good in Gentelman's Agreement, for which she won her only Oscar. And strangely memorable as the unseen, uncredited Addie Ross--you only hear her voice--in A Letter to Three Wives.
I haven't seen Gentleman's Agreement for 20 years, probably. About time to watch it again. It's kind of remarkable that it's still pretty much the only movie (I can think of) of its kind.
I have a friend who can't stand eating noises. Me, I don't really care. But when he IM's me "MUST...KILL...ALL...HUMANS," I know his officemate is eating an apple.
I am this friend.
One of the few things that people don't get use to and increases their long-term happiness is cosmetic surgery.
Weird!
One of the few things that people don't get use to and increases their long-term happiness is cosmetic surgery.
I am extremely skeptical of this claim. Do you have any data? Do the studies distinguish between reconstructive surgery (that is, bringing people back to their baseline) versus wholly elective surgery?
I was just going to post something along the lines of 73. I've seen that claim made repeatedly, and I assume there's some study backing it (quick googling isn't finding the research), but I find it really implausible.
Two things that should be banned by law:
--car alarms. Annoys hundreds of people every freaking time they go off, specifically designed to drive everyone crazy, can't believe they deter any kind of serious car thief.
--removing the muffler from your motorcycle engine. I AM AN OUTLAW BIKER HEAR ME ROAR.
That's funny that you want my take on the happiness research.
Hmmm, I guess I confused you with Sherry (helped by the fact that you do make comments about happiness from time to time). What I should have asked is for you to encourage Sherry to start commenting here. . . .
I would certainly vote for an initiative based on 75.
I like fan sound, which is fortunate because it is that time of the year and I have a Vornado pointed pretty much directly at my ear. What I really like is its near relative the sound of moderate wind over tall dry grass, and I often pretend that is what I am hearing outside my window when I am going to sleep with the fan on. The VERY LOUD white noise of, for example, the cabin of an airplane, though, is horrible. It is like being prodded all over continually.
I can't be prodded without great unhappiness. Who knew indoor-types with Irish ancestors could sunburn so quickly?
I could never live in NYC. Like listening to the creek now, and we don't hear the train nearly so often. (We're still about 3 miles from the tracks, but now have (a) intervening hill and (b) no uncontrolled crossings nearby.) I like wind. Rain on a skylight I've heard enough for a lifetime.
It looks like we on the very northern tier might see the aurora tonight. Boston/Maine/MN/here/Seattle. Even Iowa.
Anecdata: I love white noise, and I usually sleep with a fan running, just for the sound.
I am definitely a fan of white noise. Also, e.g., hotel rooms with really loud air conditioners can be great, because the white noise screens out all the other noise from surrounding rooms that could be a lot more distracting.
Urgh. I've complained about air con noise in hotels before.
"I'll take my chances with heat stroke, here in the Hague, in March, if you will just turn the infernal fucking noise off!"
I think this thread is revealing a lot of marital incompatibilities between commenters. If you are considering dating in this pool, consult this thread in order to determine your white noise compatibility.
I can handle white noise fairly well and a lot of the usual hustle and bustle noises of the city don't bother me, but loud music annoys the hell out of me. It's not just the intrinsic properties of the sound it's the selfishness of the person playing their music at an unreasonable volume that gets to me. On some level it feels like a personal insult.
Even when air conditioner noise is loud, I don't really mind as long as it's constant.
What I've noticed bothers me in hotel rooms are air conditioners that repeatedly start and stop. Makes it hard to fall asleep.
In the summer if you set the thermostat at 50 degrees, the air conditioner doesn't stop.
71: I generally don't mind eating noises, but I used to have a cow-orker who would eat almonds while on the phone with me. That there was some annoying shit.
The secret to annoyance, and not just comedy, is timing. My neighbors can play loud music all they like during the day, but when they wake me up at 2am, I am pissed.
I dated someone who almost always chews with her mouth open. That was annoying, but not primarily because of the noise.
I dated someone who almost always chews with her mouth open.
What about if her face could launch 1,000 ships?
Was this the face that munched a thousand chips?
In this case, the dealbreaker was her narcissism.
94: Maybe if she always ate with her back to me.
My deal breaker is screwing up the quantitative portions of semi-common sayings.
Those aren't ships she's launching.
That's not a tower that's topless.
98: I learned only a few years ago that it's not "Six and a half of one, a dozen of the other."