Two bombs. There are many injuries. I don't know if anybody's dead yet, but you can see a lot of blog on the live shots and the footage of the immediate aftermath doesn't look good.
Lots of stories flying around. News reporter said someone lost both legs. Indirect reports from the Boston Fire Department of some deaths. Reports that police are finding other unexploded devices.
Short video clip that got one of the explosions: https://vine.co/v/bFdt5uwg6JZ
Scary! Disturbing! And I'm the sort of asshole who finds myself almost immediately thinking "I hope this doesn't delay my flight home", followed shortly by reprimanding myself.
It's definitely known to be bombs? No chance of, I don't know, freak gas explosion or something?
The Boston Globe Twitter feed has the most current info I can find.
Actual source of explosions not known, so strictly speaking when we say "bombs" we're guessing.
Third explosion - Boston PD intentionally set off a device that had been found.
The Globe twitter feed is talking about 'secondary devices' -- they might be wrong, but they sound as if they're claiming knowledge that it is bombs rather than accident.
Do you take that implication from the word "secondary"? Or from another Globe tweet I found, "[authorities] say they don't know if there are more explosives planted"?
Finally got through to my mom. She was on Boylston, between the two explosions. She seemed surprisingly unconcerned? I don't think she knew about the other devices. I said "yeah, can you please stay indoors and away from Copley?"
What time did this happen? Just got in touch with my girlfriend and she hadn't heard yet.
A freak gas explosion that just happens to coincide with the finish line of the Boston marathon?
9: From the word 'devices'. If there's anything that can be described as a 'device' with a causal relationship to the explosions, that sounds as if it establishes intentionality.
She was on Boylston, between the two explosions.
Yikes! Glad she's okay.
Live local news feed from the Boston CBS affiliate.
Third explosion - Boston PD intentionally set off a device that had been found.
Lots of tweets in the OMG-a-third-explosion vein. Come on people, read the rest of the tweeter.
Not to jump to conclusions, but: coincidence that this also the Israeli Independence Day?
Ah, right. It could also theoretically mean unexploded ordnance, but that's pretty unlikely.
Yeah. I was hoping this was just freak explosions, but with other devices being found and detonated, this sounds very very bad.
Part of my business is producing a large high-profile marathon (not this one thank god), so the pictures are extra-spooky to me - I recognize all of the infrastructure as stuff I source and manage, so it's way too easy to picture this in my world.
19 is an interesting idea but Wikipedia thinks it's tomorrow.
I was going by posts by Israelis on my Facebook feed, but maybe not? Or maybe that's a time zone issue?
Looks like Israeli Independence Day actually begins the evening of April 15th, and it's 11PM there now.
Though if we're thinking about date significance I'd look to the tax deadline.
Devices in trash cans. Suspicious abandoned mail truck being investigated. 12 dead so far. Still waiting to hear from BIL, green line and mass ave bridge closed, cell networks jammed.
25: Oh, that's much more obvious. Why didn't I think of that? I guess because no one was posting "happy tax day" to Facebook.
Hah, well in MA tax deadline isn't until tomorrow because today is a holiday.
Where are you reading, SP? I've only seen reports of 2 or 3 dead.
26 - Where's the 12 dead figure from? The sources I'm following give 2 dead and 22-23 injured so far.
28: Patriots Day. If it was some weirdo Tea Party tax protest (not that there's any particular reason to think any such thing), Patriots Day would fit as well as tax day, no?
Boston_Police on Twitter say 2 dead, 23 injured.
And are continuing to use the hashtag #tweetfromthebeat.
BIL GF texted MIL to say they're ok
12 was Bloomberg business I think, I'll try to find link
Daily mail, NY post, others say 12, although those aren't the most reputable and might all be based on one wrong source. Just google "12 dead" boston marathon
31: Yes, but less national relevance to Patriot's Day, plus IRS-rage is likely to be more emotionally salient than Revolution-nostalgia.
Driver of the mail truck showed up, I bet he was embarrassed.
My fellow professor who was running finished the marathon in under 3 hours, so I guess should be safe. He hasn't updated Facebook since posting his time, though.
Fire at JFK library but probably unrelated, although bomb squad sent just in case. This reminds me of 9/11 when every stupid false report was inflated- news channels reported there had been a car bomb that day at the State Dept. and the people who worked there were all, WTF are you talking about?
Woman who sits next to me in the lab just showed up; was cheering her friend on at the finish; left a couple of minutes before the blast. She is, it would be fair to say, pretty shook up.
The FAA has issued a Temporary flight restriction over the area of explosion.
Runners near the finish are being redirected to Boston Common which is an extra 5 blocks they have to run, that sucks.
NBC reports BPD have confirmed devices were IEDs.
Decent map of the site and location of explosions:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/04/15/us/site-of-the-boston-marathon-explosion.html
Intelligence official: 2 more explosive devices found at Boston Marathon; being dismantled
One at Copley sq near the medical tent, don't know where the other was reported.
Also, I think "12 dead" may have spun out from "dozen casualties" appearing in some reports.
Lots of ambulances, and the latest "suspicious package" was reported in that elevated walkway in this picture
Damn, this is going to make them step up the stupid "see something say something" campaign and the random subway bag checks.
Shit, the Atlantic has a pretty fucking gruesome picture in their coverage.
Give me a fucking break:
UPDATE: Another suspicious package was reported near the Harvard #MBTA station
48: You're not kidding--that is the most gruesome news photo I've ever seen.
Most suspicious packages are going to turn out to be nothing. Also today a bunch of people who didn't keep track of their kit will end up having it destroyed by EOD.
Yeah, I'm sure they're nothing, I'm pissed that every dropped lunch bag for the next month is going to result in the evacuation of a subway station. Glad I bike everyday.
Apparently a cop redirecting traffic from the site was telling people to "evacuate the city". Way to keep it cool, man.
Tweety, glad your mom is OK.
WTF, close Mass Ave bridge? Why?
I can be pretty darned sure my dad isn't down there. He hates crowds. But he does love the BAA Marathon.
Riding home passed a bunch of people with their marathon swag bags. They looked pretty shell-shocked.
Apparently Boston police have cordoned off a block of Comm. Ave at Gloucester due to another suspicious device.
My second cousin - Marine aviator who was injured in both legs last year - was in the handcycle part of the race. His wife's FB says that they're OK back in their hotel.
JFK Library says the fire was unrelated.
I first read that as the city not the street and I wondered 1) Why are BPD way up on the north shore and 2) What would anyone have against fishermen?
Once Comm Ave leaves the city (and Newton) it meanders to the north shore. Like Mass Ave ends in Acton.
Christ. Current report is now 2 dead, 64 injured.
Boston.com blog reports ground stop at Logan airport.
In the live briefing, BPD says JFK library was related.
The JFK library explosion is getting listed along with the others now.
Also, I am reminded how unimpressive our Governor is.
Now NY post is reporting one of the injured is being guarded as a possible suspect, and that there's surveillance footage of someone with backpacks (don't know if same person.) They still say 12 dead so I don't really trust their reporting.
Video of first explosion
essear: BREAKING: FAA has announced a ground stop for Boston Logan airport until further notice
And WTF is this about? "BPD telling officers at hospitals to be on lookout for yellow Penske truck, driver claiming he has OR supplies"
Huh. BPD Twitter says "third incident" at JFK.
66: BPD spox at press conference just said in response to question that they're not looking for any specific type of truck.
Police just said that there was a controlled 3rd explosion on Boylston Street as well as another explosion at JFK.
This is unfortunate:"There were a number of items dropped along the race route by spectators; they all are being treated as suspicious devices."
Also they're locking down some of the hospitals so there seems to be something going on there.
Just read that the cops shut down Boston's mobile nets.
video of explosion. http://www.boston.com/video/viral_page/?%2Fservices%2Fplayer%2Fbcpid2080955193001&bckey=AQ%7E%7E%2CAAAAAA6piHY%7E%2CDqRT40XOAr8XmRt9Lw9Lza1eXkXEagX8&bctid=2303076923001
horrible.
Also they're locking down some of the hospitals so there seems to be something going on there.
I assume they suspect that perpetrators are among the injured.
Also, I am reminded how unimpressive our Governor is.
What do you want him to do, climb on the wreckage with a bullhorn? His administration has actually done a lot in the way of improving the state of disaster preparedness in the towns and cities of the Commonwealth.
There's a person finder on Google.org.
Just read that the cops shut down Boston's mobile nets.
That's good thinking, BPD. That'll be sure to calm the public and stanch the spread of rumor and misinformation. Not to mention speeding the reunion of separated family members.
Hmm- "Police are asking everyone in Boston to stay home; if you do go out, do not travel in large groups."
Well I had a date planned tonight, I'm still going out.
76- My favorite was TV news people said that people should not text or use cell phones because they could accidentally set off another device. Be afraid and huddle under your bed!
Symphony, hockey game canceled.
"Reports of Marathon Runners that crossed finish line and continued to run to Mass General Hospital to give blood to victims "
79.--That is incredibly sweet and probably not a good idea.
74: Yeah, unrelated to any policy issues, he just surprises me as having a pretty lousy public persona.
Well I had a date planned tonight, I'm still going out.
I decided to skip my yoga class. But less because I'm worried to go out than because I ran out of time to get ready because watching the Globe twitter feed.
A Globe reporter tweeting that 4,496 runners didn't cross the finish line. That's way fewer than I'd have thought.
God, so scary. I'm a couple blocks from the finish line - I heard the explosions but wasn't sure what happened, then heard lots of sirens and figured I'd better stay inside and out of their way. Now I'm trying to follow the news without having to look at any more gruesome photos... I hope all of you and your friends/family are OK.
86: According to the Globe, what might have looked like panicky overreaction was actually part of the disaster response. Logan airport had to stop aircraft movements for 30 minutes to allow them to reconfigure air traffic so that the airspace over Copley could be cleared to give emergency helicopters unimpeded access.
83: another couple thousand or so got stopped in Newton before the 40k marker.
usual mobile professional's notice that the main reason to not use the cellular network at these moments is that there are people who need it urgently*, and you don't want to fry the networks checking unfogged for my views. explaining access-overload control to the mass audience at these moments is probably hard. perhaps we should try doing it between them or something?*
*lots of emergency/official users, and for some reason their private radio network never seems to cut it and they all pull out their own devices
*my advice - if you're in the area and you don't really *need* to say something, shut up. save the twitpics for later. if you do, send SMS, but don't expect quick delivery as it's store-and-forward, which is why it works at these moments. if you really really really want to call your mum, pick up a landline phone, they're overengineered and nobody uses them. if you're on a working fixed Internet connection, use VoIP, it's beside the point. obviously if you actually need an ambulance, call 911 on whatever works.
It's a little weird to get an email saying "we dodged a bullet" and "this was not as complete a disaster as we feared" and it's from... IT people about a computing cluster.
90: I got an email that campus police are monitoring the situation. Okay, phew! I was worried it was just real police.
The computing cluster thing is apparently unrelated to the bombing. Maybe they were so mired in bug-fixing they didn't see the news, and just sent a weirdly ominous-sounding email.
NBC news reporting that one of the 2 dead was eight years old. Ugh. Would be happy to find out that's misinformation.
Former colleague whom I (used to) follow just tweeted: "Looks like the Obama from the first Romney debate (weak) showed up to give those remarks. Where's George W when we need him?" WTF?
19 was stupid, so here's another possibly stupid one: I'm seeing a lot of FB comments claiming the bombs were on a stretch dedicated to the families of Newtown victims. Possible rightwing wacko motive?
92 - I arrived at work on the morning of September 11, 2001, to discover the big television in the lobby was displaying footage of a plane having hit one tower of the World Trade Center, but there were no details (and obviously the building hadn't collapsed) so I assumed it was a small hobbyist plane and locked myself into a server room to deal with a pretty severe problem affecting some government MX records. I emerged 45 minutes later and proudly told my boss that I had put out the fire.
This is obviously the work of muslim terrorists. Why won't the media say so?
94: I mean, obviously the proper response is to invade Venezuela. GWB would have possessed the moral seriousness to know that.
89: I was guessing it was related to fears of using cellphones as triggers.
Should 98 be MARTY PERETZ or PAU/L CA/MPOS?
NPR just aired a brief segment that was largely concerned with who had used the word terrorism. Obama? No. Dianne Feinstein? Yes.
Arrrrgh! WTF is the obsession with the "terrorism" label? Somebody planted bombs that fucking killed and maimed people. And people want to quibble over vocabulary??? Fucking hell.
I thought "terrorism", definitionally, required political motives, which of course we don't know yet. Is that wrong?
This is obviously the work of muslim terrorists. Why won't the media say so?
I can't remember if they used the word Muslim, but the NY Post was reporting earlier that a Saudi national had been arrested. (Police were denying.)
No, that's not quibbling. I'm just anticipating the endless analysis of why Obama didn't use the word "terrorism" in his first public remarks after the bombing, with the inevitable conclusion that it reveals that he's soft on terror.
My plane has boarded despite torrents of snow on this end and bombs on the other. Of all the days to not be able to reload news coverage and blogs repeatedly through the evening....
Restaurant is crowded. A marathon runner in all his gear just came in and went to the bar.
Just *finally* heard from my brother, who's volunteered (as a ham radio operator) at the Marathon for years now. He didn't do it this year, though he was asked to. He's worried now about his ham radio friends who were working there.
What function do ham operators perform at marathons?
I'm not completely clear, had only a vague understanding, but I've just asked my brother.
Since we know from 9/11 that communication systems among first responders were pretty messed up, certainly ham radio serves as a backup. But I don't know if that's why they're at the marathon.
Hams are still used. The military has MARS.
Answer from my brother, cut and pasted:
They provide communications for medical resources along the route. There are first aid stations every few miles with a radio operator at it as well as busses with radio operators that travel along the route to collect runners that can't finish or need medical assistance. There are two large tents that span a block just past the finish line that are used for medical personnel. In and around the tents are wheelchair teams each with a radio operator that pick up runners that collapse or whatnot just past the finish line. As far as what we communicate it's mostly calls for resources like doctors, ambulances, wheelchairs to all the locations as needed.
Overall there are about 70 ham radio operators that communicate on multiple radio frequencies to get the job done.
As I type this email I am hearing from my local friend and coordinator of the finish line operations that all ham radio operators are accounted for. So that is good news.
When I heard that there was a bombing at a library, I wondered about the IRA oral history controversy, but I guess those materials are at Boston College, not the JFK library.
I have just told my brother that I am proud of him. (Though he didn't go this year, about which, whew.)
Some asshole at Patrick's most recent press conference shouted out a question about whether the attack had been staged. Ha ha, fuck you. Sincerely, all of Boston.
120: what does that even mean? The staged part, that is. I have tons of experience with Boston telling me to fuck myself.
Something about it being designed to reduce civil liberties? Some dick from Alex Jones's website.
Some random thing coming through twitter feeds said something about false flag. I didn't even bother looking.
God, civil liberties are so twentieth century regardless. I wondered if it had to do with the ad campaign, about which I can remember next to nothing other than Lite Brite type things under bridges and a creeping suspicion of terrorism. Also, Alex Jones is someone I'd prefer never to think about, thanks.
Huh. False flag, eh? It's hard to respect one's fellow citizens sometimes.
I've never heard of, and will not be looking up, Alex Jones.
civil liberties are so twentieth century regardless.
Totally! The budget deficit is the now thing.
126: he's the lead singer for One Direction.
I've never heard of, and will not be looking up, One--oh, wait, I read that other thread.
While we are quibbling about definitions, doesn't an armed group have to take credit for an operation--to fly a flag--before they can be accused of flying a false flag?
I'm honestly sort of glad the FBI is taking over; not that the BPD's traditional "round up the dark-skinned people" strategy definitely won't bear fruit, but seems better to avoid it.
I haven't watched or heard any mainstream media coverage of this, but I hope it's not true that it's fear-mongering and panic left and right.
The Wikipedia article makes it seem like it's generally the practice of failing to use correct identifying marks, and could subsume pretending to be civilian or other unidentified actors. Three incidents it lists as examples - Mukden, Mainila and Kassa - appear to have been simple attacks without identification, with all the blaming done by media.
I'm glad everyone here seems to be OK, and hope that's true for extended family/friends/connections etc.
I'm also glad my acquaintanceship circle, even online, doesn't seem to include any Truthers or overt anti-muslim bigots.
89 -- definitely in Chch the mobile network had huge huge trouble although of course the loadings were pretty different & there was infrastructure damage.
Ugh this stuff is awful.
what does that even mean? The staged part, that is.
Like Newtown, VW. The Newtown shooting didn't actually happen: it was staged by the government because Obama wants your guns.
On other forms of social media she's been active, yeah.
My marathoner housemate seems to be discussing his friends' Boston Marathon times. Possibly not the Boston. Possibiy last year. Still, a verdant obsession. (The ends of conversations after verifying people OK.)
so it seems as if they still have a saudi national in the hospital whom they are questioning/fucking with? when it's, I don't know, almost the anniversary of waco, tx (april 19th) and of timothy mcveigh's bombing (intended to commemorate waco.) and no one outside america has heard of boston (this is not meant in a disparaging way; it just doesn't happen to have a high international profile despite being an important american city)? and it's tax day? and the families of some of the newtown, conn. victims were in the VIP seats, and the right wing is freaking out about gun control? (aside: when we find the people who made those parents watch an eight-year-old get blown up, well, well, well--we're just going to send them to a federal supermax facility since we don't kill federal criminals. wait--we killed mcveigh. OK, kill!) pipe bombs a la atlanta olympic bombings? I'M THINKING WHITE PEOPLE HERE. my sister, not entirely jokingly, said "I should go on facebook and find out which white people it was." she knows a lot of people freaking out about gun control. and a lot of nazis. the "newtown was a fake" thing is so strong on the far right it has resulted in lots of death threats and boos for the families as they advocate stricter gun control.
we talked to my aunt who had friends running and at the finish, but all are fine. I know this must have been awful for everyone in boston or with family there, especially when they shut down cell service (to prevent remote detonation, right?) and I hope everyone is safe and secure.
People think Newtown was a fake? Jesus. Assholes suck.
so it seems as if they still have a saudi national in the hospital whom they are questioning/fucking with?
It's not at all clear that this true, btw. Lots of rumors flying around, as usually happens with events like this. I do agree that most signs seem to point in the direction of white people, though.
I just saw a guy I knew on TV, now a doctor handling the victims. Last time I'd seen that guy was in 1993, when he was freaking out on mushrooms.
I do agree that most signs seem to point in the direction of white people, though.
Are you at a Cracker Barrel?
Yeah, the Saudi national in the hospital seems like a case of "lets find the closest Muslim to the scene, and blame that guy." That's some damn fine police work there, Lou.
Didn't I read that they caught the Saudi guy after he was running away from the first blast and into the second? Doesn't seem like the behavior one would expect from someone who knew where the bombs were.
Seems like a large fraction of the things that were being reported several hours ago have been retracted in the meantime.
That's what she the police said!
What, I am the only person here to have seen Four Lions?
re: 151
No. But I'd guess [excellent though it is] it didn't play much in the US.
I've certainly never heard of it, not that that means much given my general philistinism.
Fair point, 152. (teo: it's a film about Muslim suicide bombers hitting the London Marathon, and, unlikely though this sounds, it's a comedy.)
Let us not forget also that today is the national day of the DPRK, and they've been wittering on about striking at America for weeks.
No, I don't believe it either. The point is, nobody has a clue (although I dare say the perpetrators have at least heard of Four Lions).
Four Lions, as well as a masterwork of genius, is practically a documentary. From this morning's newspaper - two wannabe jihadis in court in plot to drive RC toy car loaded with bathtub explosive under gate of TA drill hall.
(Regarding extreme-right terrorists, I remember from 11th September that my whole family and everyone I knew expected it to be Crazy White Guys.)
156: yes, I saw that. Classic. My sources inform me that the plot was foiled by chance when the TA unit in question decided to fit a bit of wood under its gate.
When 9/11 happened, I assumed it was Muslim terrorists because a) it was a repeat attack on the WTC and b) in an event that no one other than me seems to remember, over the summer the CIA was warning that there was danger of a Muslim terrorist attack.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/us/explosions-reported-at-site-of-boston-marathon.html?hp&_r=0
Black powder, apparently. Now that smells of gun nuts.
Black powder, apparently. Now that smells of gun nuts.
I always thought it smelled like sulphur. The smell of gun nuts is more like a combination of Copenhagen and doe urine.
Bombing Taxachussetts on Tax Day doesn't sound like Muslims.
Four Lions, as well as a masterwork of genius, is practically a documentary. From this morning's newspaper - two wannabe jihadis in court in plot to drive RC toy car loaded with bathtub explosive under gate of TA drill hall.
That's the more or less the plot of Dead Pool, isn't it? It has one of my favourite car chase scenes as Clint flees in terror across San Francisco from a little toy car.
I've heard of it, but have no remaining interest in seeing British comedies that are all about horrible people being awkward and horrible to each other all the time.
re: 163
Four Lions has both total slapstick moments, and moments of real pathos. It's not awkwardness-humour.
The accents in Four Lions are somewhat challenging for an American audience, I suspect. I've watched the first half but didn't get into it for whatever reason.
Four Lions is hilarious and brilliant but it is a very hard sell for Americans.
"You see it's this comedy about these four British Muslim wannabe terrorists who..."
"There's nothing funny about terrorism."
"No, no, no, trust me on this. It's not what you think. This movie is great, you really should see..."
Repeat refrain and end in awkward silence.
I agree with 163 100%. I dutifully watched the latest season of Peep Show, but there were many times I asked myself "Why am I watching this?" Fortunately, it was only 6 episodes.
It's the combination of awkward and horrible that gets me. Everyone on Arrested Development is horrible, but they're confident about it.
Netflix Instant has about 50 times as many British shows as have ever aired here on actual TV. (no thanks to BBC America, home of "Top Gear" marathons, Graham Norton marathons and classic BBC fare like "Jurassic Park"). Anyway, the absolute worst one I have tried is called "Snuff Box". The premise is that there is a lazy Victorian premise in which the two guys are still their 21st-century selves anyway, and it doesn't have anything to do with the sketches, which suck. This wasn't popular in Britain either, was it? I'd never heard of it.
Is there a Muslim panic that I'm missing this time? As best as I can reckon, pretty much everyone is assuming that some rightwing nut did this.
I was listening to Nut Radio last night, and the host was talking about how we need to not be hasty in assigning blame - which sounded to me as though he had a guess as to where the blame would ultimately fall.
Let's face it, we as a nation had it coming after Justin Bieber's behavior at the Anne Frank house.
no thanks to BBC America, home of "Top Gear" marathons, Graham Norton marathons and classic BBC fare like "Jurassic Park"
On the other hand, at least you guys get to watch The Nerdist show, which we're barred from watching in the UK. Even the clips on Youtube.
Is there a Muslim panic that I'm missing this time? As best as I can reckon, pretty much everyone is assuming that some rightwing nut did this.
I suspect this is a Pauline Kael-type phenomenon. Newsnight, of all places, had Frank Gaffney on as their first guest. I switched over at that point, but I'd be pretty surprised if he wasn't spreading Muslim panic, given that's what he does every day of the week that ends in "y".
The Boston Globe has already gone with a "1st clues suggest attack may be case of domestic terror" headline.
The frequency with which BBC America shows Top Gear is truly stunning (nb, I'm a fan and not complaining). I have the DVR set to record it,0 with a five-episode cap and it seems to turn over completely about every other day-- that is they usually re-run at least 5 different episodes every 48 hours, sometimes many more.
174. I notice they quote Dan Drezner trying to damp down speculation.
171: We as a nation? Bieber is Canadian.
From 174: Early reports suggest that the devices were crudely made -- otherwise, they probably would have killed many more people -- making it unlikely that they were the work of a foreign government or global terrorist group, such as Al Qaeda
Hooray for our crappy educational system!
Can't get too worked up about Bieber. He's 19 and he's been living in a bubble since he was 15. Also, there's no reason to suppose he's devastatingly intelligent. He's bound to do prat-like things from time to time. So what?
Also,
Sen Warren says "we will find the person who did this", and says the president was actively involved in the response.
Is 182 weirdly credible as a joke? My standpipe is cordoned off today.
He's bound to do prat-like things from time to time. So what?
He's a suspect?
Just seen the videos at the Guardian site. It's weirdly impressive how many runners glance round at the explosion 20 yards away, turn back, and continue running. Without even breaking stride! Terrorism is all very well, but I'm damn well going to get my sub-four-hour time this year...
185: I mean, not like running away from an explosion is a bad idea even if there isn't a finish line in that direction. Runners on the other side of the blasts generally stopped or turned around from what I've seen.
Also I imagine some of them were so zonked as to have no real awareness of the world around them, and some of them were probably running more for the med tent (and liquids, and blankets) than the finish.
186: fair point. And I suppose they couldn't have run away from the explosion any faster because they'd just run a marathon. It just looked admirably insouciant.
I've only ever run a half marathon, but I took as long to run it as many people take to run a whole marathon. At the end, I don't think I would have noticed anything that didn't knock my off my feet.
Yeah I'm not going to fault anyone at the end of a marathon for not immediately understanding what was going on when a motherfucking bomb goes off at the end of the race. There were some pretty touching stories about runners who were completely wiped out after the race springing into action and helping with first aid, etc.
My assumption is that the people who kept running were in a weird head space of endorphin high and total exhaustion coupled with relentless focus on keeping going. The closest I've come to running a marathon (a 10 km swim) was like that. You could have dropped depth charges in the pool and I'd barely have noticed.
Apparently the Saudi guy was tackled by a random guy who then "turned him over" to the police. The hell? I hope they're questioning that asshole too.
192: well, he was running away from an explosion. Very suspicious!
I should try that next time my annoying coworker won't leave my office. Tackle him and turn him over to the police! Problem solved.
Hooray for our crappy educational system!
The bomb-making classes our parents and grandparents enjoyed are getting squeezed out by the relentless focus on preparing for standardized tests.
Rhee personally corrected the miswiring on the exams of many students.
A friend of mine made the national news a couple decades back when these kids blew their hands off trying to make pipe bombs from instructions he'd posted on a BBS. Granted, posting bomb-making instructions on a BBS was a bit adolescently antisocial, but he quite rightly pointed out that if they had followed his directions and drilled the fuse hole before filling the pipe with black powder, they would have been fine.
I remember reading a book about George Metesky where they put unexploded bombs in a barrel of motor oil to deactivate them. Was that a black powder thing? An electronics thing? I haven't heard of any bomb squad doing that nowadays.
I think that's more of a necessary but not sufficient thing.
So now homeland security dudes with machine guns are popping up to guard things. Well, at least one, at the court house. He's not making me feel any safer. What if the whole rest of the city starts to be like the airport? I can't wear slip-on shoes every day.
198: nowadays they take the view that you can't go wrong with a Double Baldrick.
http://www.sartma.com/artc_436_SA_260_1.html
Now that's a really cunning plan.
200: I remember seeing some travel book a long time ago where someone said that the political health of a government and society was in direct inverse proportion to the number of people with machine guns you saw on the street. Our political health has taken a precipitous slide over the last decade
200: A friend says she saw one of these guys apparently guarding a Starbucks.
the number of people with machine guns you saw on the street
You can have machine guns that aren't seen on the streets, but are aimed at the streets. That's quite a loophole.
200: Yeah, there were armed people in uniform rifling through the bags of everyone entering the Harvard Square subway. Makes me nervous.
I assumed they were National Guard but didn't actually check to see what the uniform said. Does Homeland Security have its own armed employees?
Loopholes come in handy when aiming machine guns at the streets.
A friend says she saw one of these guys apparently guarding a Starbucks.
Starbucks, unfortunately, is a hard target. To ensure the viability of civilization, I think you need to provide an alternative, perhaps mobile, source of coffee.
I assumed they were National Guard but didn't actually check to see what the uniform said. Does Homeland Security have its own armed employees?
I don't know who they were, really. I saw a Homeland Security SUV parked nearby. Of course, that was right outside the Coast Guard building. Could have been National Guard I guess--that might account for a certain ramshackleness about the guy, apart from his machine gun. The guy outside the Starbucks, though, was all in black and kind of ninja/swat looking.
Aw, my rural, rednecky ex-nephew-in-law on FB:
Whether you like Obama or not is your own personal belief (except for those of you that are racist fucks in which case burn in hell) but to honestly believe that the Boston marathon was caused by our government is just plain ignorance.. Think before you speak.
Such a shame he and my niece didn't work out; he's a really nice kid, and my go-to example of how you can't judge a book by its apparently redstateish cover. As seen on FB, though, they seem to be having the friendliest, most civil divorce possible.
to honestly believe that the Boston marathon was caused by our government is just plain ignorance.
It would take an extremely repressive regime to force people to run that far.
It would take an extremely repressive regime to force people to run that far.
In Soviet Russia, marathon runs yOU
216: Maybe it could be done with incentives. Run a marathon and you can be served soda in any size container you can carry.
Run a marathon and you'll get a card allowing the convenience store clerk to tape over the Surgeon General's warning on your smokes.
Run a marathon and you get one free punch at anybody who says "choice architecture" in your hearing.
I missed this yesterday- I knew Rubin was a top-notch hack, but what kind of asshole uses a terrorist attack to simultaneously flog the right-wing bauble of the week and sarcastically attack a colleague?
Fuck Mitch McConnell: "The complacency that prevailed prior to September 11 has actually returned." What an asshole.
222: I am desperate for news on who's going to run against him. I hope people are starting to recognize that he needs to go. Maybe?
223 -- He's an embarrassment to the species, that's for sure. Which, sadly, Progress Kentucky isn't doing anything to mitigate.
224: Yeah, that is not a good situation on a lot of fronts.
223 - I really thought it was going to be Allison Lundergan Grimes (since she's young and even a semi-decent showing wouldn't be an impediment to her running for higher office in the future), but I guess she hasn't made a formal announcement one way or the other.
It still might be Grimes. She certainly has name recognition even out of her area, but I wonder if after the whole Ashley Judd thing they're going to look for someone who's not a young woman to push. Everything is just completely up in the air, at least as far as I can tell.
One of McMegan's victims proves his worth yet again:
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/04/cowboy-hat-carlos-arredondo-boston-marathon
I just looked up the qualifying times to enter the Boston Marathon. If I could ran a full marathon at my half marathon pace, I could enter if I were 75 years old.
Or if you ran a full marathon at your half pace, you could enter if you were 150 years old.
They just combine 80+ into one group because of ageism.
I feel bad for not knowing who Grimes is.
The NYT claims the Boston subways are being watched by SWAT teams. The people I saw looked military. But maybe they were just heavily armed and armored police? The blurring distinction between police and military is another thing that makes me very uncomfortable.
232: Currently Sec of State, only two years older than I am, so not anyone who would have been active in politics when you were around.
It is the duty of all Americans to know the identities of the Secretaries of the several states.
Re: the NY Post's crap reporting mentioned upthread.
It has been very interesting (and saddening) to see the Facebook reaction of the Chinese grad students in my lab to the identification of the third victim; first, they knew who it was from Chinese social media well before it was reported here, and second I think the shared experience of being alone in a very foreign country has produced intensely strong feelings of empathy and identification.
In other news, really hope that video footage is good and they have the right guy.
If there is a guy! NBC is sticking to their story.
CNN appears to have gone wobbly on the arrest claim. Our national news media are now 1000 monkeys furiously refreshing their Twitter feeds.
The surveillance video is from the store my mom was standing in front of (and that she fled back through).
240: Boston Globe has now gone with "Suspect en route to Federal Court," but they are probably (?) just sourcing that to AP.
There's nothing creepy about distributed attempts to sift through the mountains of photos. The creepy is inherent to Stormfront, FreeRepublic, and 4chan. Reddit should be reasonably sane, right?
Reddit should be reasonably sane, right?
I can't tell if you're joking?
Reddit should be reasonably sane
Ho ho, how droll.
244: So you're saying your mom fled the scene, eh?
249: with a foreign national, and left an electronic device behind, yup.
246: I was looking at the 4Chan one, because someone linked it on FB, and they were labeling people "brown." As in, "brown"; "has backpack"; "looking away."
Someone on my FB feed linked to the 4chan page and it is definitely creepy. Some of the photos are singling out people they label as "brown".
The globe website has simultaneous headlines saying suspect arrested and no suspect in custody.
You have tea and no tea.
oudemia and I are secretly the same person.
Big crowds are waiting outside the federal courthouse in Boston, and you can play along at home!
I can only hope that this was retro sleuthing? Because CNN's possibly arrested person was identified as "dark skinned." Thanks for that CNN!
"A spokesman for the FBI at their national office in Washington DC confirmed to the Guardian's Matt Williams that "no arrests had been made" in the Boston case."
"Investigators have detained a suspect over Monday's Boston marathon bombings, law enforcement officials have told the Associated Press news agency."
Take your pick.
The Boston Globe @BostonGlobe 2m
BREAKING NEWS: No arrest made in bombings, US attorney, Boston police say.
All hail Pete Williams and NBC for refusing to run after the ball, peewee soccer stylee, with everyone else!
CNN's possibly arrested person was identified as "dark skinned."
Ogged!
263: Heh, sadly. Islamic terrorists are trained to look Hispanic Mexican, don't you know.
Which, ogged doesn't even look Mexican, so that's stupid anyway.
It is remarkable to me that a relatively advanced people, scientifically and legally and in so many other ways, can be so dumb.
255/256/259: Oh, no, the pix looking for "brown" people have been up for a while. And yeah, they were just looking for non-whites with backpacks. Fun!
ogged doesn't even look Mexican
The rules are what they are, parsimon.
And now CBS jumps in! "JUST IN: Man sought as possible suspect is WHITE MALE, wearing white baseball cap on backwards, gray hoodie and black jacket."
Every white male in Boston who wears a backwards basecall cap -- hide!
266: I bet it's a white guy. If it was jihadis they'd have claimed credit by now.
The dumbness I refer to is this. It occurs to me that not everyone is reading hourly updates on the news today.
What if it's true that the suspect both has and has not been arrested? The terrorists have discovered superposition! Surround the city with an interference grating!
My money's still on Rosie Ruiz.
Somebody alliterative, anyhow. Has anybody checked on Erik Estrada?
267: I see! The tone was really different around here back in the day.
So ... man! This is really disgusting conflicting breathlessness on the part of our mass media! Maybe it's best to take a nap for a while and check in later.
Man sought as possible suspect is WHITE MALE
Oh good. That means we don't have to start an unnecessary war and kill a hundred thousand innocent people, right?
I don't see why they don't just arrest Richard Jewell and call it a day.
He's dead, and I'm pretty sure you need to jizz on at least one of the booking forms.
277: Well, no, it's just going to be a civil war. Or maybe we'll finally get to wipe Canada off the map.
268 wearing white baseball cap on backwards, gray hoodie and black jacket
I mean, presumably not wearing them right now, right? BREAKING NEWS: people can change their appearance by changing clothes.
@279 They can dig him up can't they?
281: Come Bostonians, lean in! Run outside and start tackling white dudes with backward baseball caps!
Anybody wearing a hoodie and a jacket would be pretty suspicious today. It's 65 degrees outside.
282: masturbating's still verboten.
As Mr al Shihri can tell you, the terrorists don't always stay dead. (That's in addition to being able to be in two places at one time, and to engage in time travel.)
Hey! Hey you guys! Guess what? Guess what?
Dude, that guy knows some shit, man. Shit that will blow your mind.
In other news, Icelanders solve a problem I didn't even know they had: how to prevent accidental incest.
My memory until checking just now was that Richard Jewell really was the Atlanta Olympics bomber. Just to show how damaging that kind of reporting can be.
What's the deal with the courthouse being evacuated? Just trying to get rid of annoying reporters?
Hilarious time to call in a bomb threat, right?
In other news, Icelanders solve a problem I didn't even know they had: how to prevent accidental incest.
A day late and a drachma short, AFAIAC.
Richard Jewell was secretly a woman?
Another topic I haven't seen addressed- the more photographed/videoed explosion near the finish line was clearly the much more minor of the two. This set of photos, for example, shows at most 10-15 people seriously injured. Figure others with minor injuries brings it to 20-30. Total injured is 176, so the other bomb was at least 5x worse- has any reason been given why? Bigger bomb? More tightly packed crowd?
297: the first explosion (that's the first one, right?) was much closer to the finish line, meaning there were far more professional (and amateur but serious) photographers, presumably. Also, after the second bomb, I've heard (from my mom and others) that the general reaction was "holy shit there could be more" and people were much more focused on getting the fuck out of there than they were after the first.
Also I bet there were more crowds -- people heading up Boylston away from the first bomb would have run right into the second.
Also I bet it's not easy to tell from that picture how many people there are with relatively less serious injuries (like, people who can walk).
Right, but I'm wondering why the second (further from the finish, not photographed as much) was so much worse if they were both the same pressure-cooker technology. They did say one had ball bearings and the other nails, maybe that was the difference. Are you saying the "get the fuck out of there" meant more people were left to die instead of getting help?
Also apparently it's evidence from the second site- Lord and Taylor, Forum videos- that is helping break the case.
One other point while I'm talking to myself- There were also all these reports of runners being injured, which clearly wasn't from the one at the finish line, the only runner affected there was the old dude who got knocked over. Or maybe the "how could they do this to the poor runners" was just assuming some were hurt and it was really all spectators.
301: I heard that many runners were sitting in the stands after having finished.
302: they were walking around, I think; nobody in the stands got hurt since they were on the other side of the street.
Aaaaaih.
Fertilizer plants, like refineries and flour mills, always have potential to explode, but...
Yeah, apparently there's still no indication of how the fire started, but Waco is a hell of a place for something like this to happen right now.
When I was walking home this evening, a big train of police motorcycles followed by police cars with sirens on followed by black SUVs followed by more police cars with sirens followed by more police motorcycles went by. A few people talking near me claimed it was Obama's motorcade, but that seems unlikely (he's supposed to be in the Boston area tomorrow, but this evening, and in Camberville?). In any case, it was a really unusually large number of police vehicles, so it seems like it should somehow have been bomb-incident related?
Just had the odd feeling of reading a sad essay by someone whose friend lost his daughter at Sandy Hook Elementary, then turning to this thread and thinking, well, that's not so bad.
I know we've been living in apocalyptic times for years now, but it sure has felt more intense lately.
I remind myself that I've expected the US to turn all Weimar Republic since the 1980s, so maybe it's just me. Seems increasingly plausible, though.
A member of the city council, Al Vanek, said a four-block area around the explosion was "totally decimated." Other witnesses compared the scene to that of the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, and authorities said the plant made materials similar to that used to fuel the bomb that tore apart that city's Murrah Federal Building.
Interesting comparison. However:
U.S. Representative Bill Flores, whose district includes West, said he doubted any foul play was involved.
"I would not expect sabotage by any stretch of the imagination," he told CNN.
So who knows, really. "Fertilizer plant explodes near Waco" sure has a lot of symbolic resonance to anyone who remembers the spate of violence associated with the American extreme right in the mid-nineties, though.
It's visible from space, low-res, on an instrument that looks for wildfires.
Whoa. Not surprising, but still impressive.
people heading up Boylston away from the first bomb would have run right into the second.
Boy, that sounds depressingly familiar. The IRA used to be really good at that sort of thing. You set off the first bomb. Security forces arrive and cordon off the area and set up incident control in a nearby building. Which, of course, is where your second bomb is. (Warrenpoint)
Or they just use the first bomb to herd more people into the path of the second. (Bloody Friday)
I'm sure that Irish bars in Boston are full of people right now talking entirely unironically about how awful it is to set off bombs in the middle of crowds of civilians, and what should be done to people who do things like that - and the people who fund them.
I'm sure that Irish bars in Boston are full of people right now talking entirely unironically about how awful it is to set off bombs in the middle of crowds of civilians, and what should be done to people who do things like that - and the people who fund them.
Well, probably not right now, since it's 4:45 am there now, but otherwise, yeah.
315: You don't know the Irish, do you, teo?
people heading up Boylston away from the first bomb would have run right into the second.
Wait, you think they anticipated a flood of marathon runners heading to West, Texas?
Today we find out if any of the /b/tards win the Where's Waldo lifetime achievement award.
By the way SP I saw another picture of the second site and it seemed like the center of the blast was much closer to the street, and maybe the sidewalk was narrower. So maybe that's it.
Thanks, that makes sense- it looked like the first one was closer to the building which would halve the area affected and be further from the crowd along the street.
OMG, I just saw some shameless douchebag hawking "Boston Strong" teeshirts commemorating the bombing. It almost makes me wish Obama really was intent on destroying free enterprise.
324: I think the Red Sox may be partly to blame for that one.
I'm sure that Irish bars in Boston are full of people right now talking entirely unironically about how awful it is to set off bombs in the middle of crowds of civilians, and what should be done to people who do things like that - and the people who fund them.
Because, the Irish are so... amirite?
Now there's been a shooting at MIT? What a week.
MIT cop severely injured, according to the Globe.
It is fucking eerie looking at the pictures of the bombing suspects, especially this one.
The cop shot at MIT is just sucky, by contrast. Having the helicopter circling makes it seem like LA. I wonder if our neighbors locked the door?
335: Whoa. I didn't realize they had pictures of them from after the bombing as well as before.
336: they have a lot more than they released, I think.
The MIT cop died. The helicopter still circles.
Some commenter on an Atlantic Wire article says this incident followed police responding to a 7-Eleven being held up, but I'm not hearing anything like that on local TV news.
It's been two hours since the shooting. It seems like the shooter could be in any of at least four cities by now, even just on foot.
Holy shit, local news right now is getting increasingly weird. Some kind of police standoff in Watertown with someone who might have explosives?
Great, because what this country needs right now is more mysterious explosions.
Reports of grenades and IEDs, one suspect down and one escaped in a stolen vehicle.
And some reporters who are so freaked out they can barely talk.
Jesus Christ. That makes it sound like there might actually be a connection to the Marathon bombs.
God, this is surreal. But this Twitter feed suggests maybe it's over now?
TV news is reporting that police and media have been ordered to turn off cell phones due to undetonated explosives.
I wish I'd gone to bed early tonight.
Of course the important thing to do is stay safe and take appropriate precautions, but in the far too many shootings, bombings, and disasters there have been lately, the early news reports keep turning out to have gotten important details wrong.
349: The feed in 348 says the same thing.
350: It seems unambiguous that explosives went off in Watertown, given the number of people reporting it. Residents there are calling in to local news and talking about hearing explosions. And there's definitely a massive police presence there from multiple agencies. I don't know which details are right, but it seems pretty likely that it's connected to the Marathon bombing at this point.
ABC and Boston.com say that a carjacking led to the chase into Watertown.
It's also not entirely clear that the MIT incident was connected to the Watertown incident.
Now there are claims that despite apparently two people in custody, police radio says they're still looking for an active shooter.
Still reports of possible bombs in the roads.
And reports that one of the two people taken into custody has now been released. Looks like they made a mistake. So presumably there were two people involved and one is still at large.
At this point I don't see why they should assume the missing suspect is in Watertown anymore.
That body language of the cops on the scene suggests no one's still at large.
360: That contradicts what's being reported, but I would be happy if the reporters are wrong about this one.
Well, at least not in the immediate vicinity. I've been on a lot of shooting scenes. Typically you're not sending up the robot to disrupt ordinance if you think a shooter's in a backyard on the street.
And going into backyards with guns is likely just clearing the block. Even if you think you've got the guys you're still going to do a systematic clearing of the block, especially when there's devices involved.
The NYTimes has a more coherent story than other news sources, but who knows how complete it is.
The Boston Globe is now saying the person in custody is one of the Marathon bombing suspects. All the news sources I'm seeing are still saying the other one is at large. Twitter is full of reports that police are surrounding a home that he may be hiding in, but who knows how reliable that is.
364: That story seems to based primarily on the testimony of a single witness, which would explain why it's more coherent. It does contain details I haven't seen anywhere else, though. "Two young guys with bombs in backpacks" sure does sound eerily like the suspects in the Marathon bombing.
It seems like scene is fairly large (several square blocks at least), and there may be different things going on in different parts of it.
Just based on the streets being mentioned in various twitter feeds.
Now some reports are saying the suspect who was taken into custody has died.
Odds of getting them alive aren't good with the devices in the mix. No one with any brains is going to go administer first aid anywhere near a bomb. Having a bomb is an excellent way to get shot and then just lay there for a while they roll out the robot to get rid of the device before anyone moves up. Sounds like the first one got taken at the initial shootout and I'm guessing the other one didn't make it very far with that kind of multi agency response. That's likely the other scene a couple blocks away.
I guess I should try to get to sleep but I'm still kind of freaked out about all this.
371: I don't blame you. This is so freaky from thousands of miles away that I can't even imagine what it would be like to be so close.
I'm interested in the details. One of my goals is to get on the EOD team and have I mentioned I have to work a post on SLC marathon on Sat? Good times.
The Globe is reporting a 20-block perimeter within which they're searching for the suspect who is said to be still at large.
I'm guessing the other one didn't make it very far with that kind of multi agency response. That's likely the other scene a couple blocks away.
The news continues to say they're still looking for the second guy. Reports seem to be saying there's something going on at the Arsenal Mall now.
375: According to Wesley Lowery, who is there, that's where the cops are regrouping.
There are also increasingly many tweets claiming to have heard on police scanners a name associated with the suspect, but I'm reluctant to say the details in case it turns out to be false.
that's where the cops are regrouping.
I guess. If they don't have a specific reason to think the suspect is in that area, I wonder why they're continuing to focus on Watertown? There are an awful lot of other places in a two hour walking distance radius of where it seems like they last saw the suspect.
If they don't have a specific reason to think the suspect is in that area, I wonder why they're continuing to focus on Watertown?
My impression was that they still did think he was in Watertown. Is someone reporting otherwise?
Apparently they're going to have a press conference at the mall at some point.
379: I guess I'm just wondering how they would know, short of having directly seen him more recently? Are they that good at having created a cordon around the area that they know he couldn't have gotten through?
It sounds like they have hundreds of cops on the scene, so maybe they figure someone would have seen him leave if he did?
The scanner itself is here, btw, although the connection hasn't been working consistently tonight. Right now they're definitely still searching in Watertown.
Mall's likely a command center because of the usable space. You don't hold press conferences where you're searching for the suspect.
Mall's likely a command center because of the usable space.
Yeah, that's definitely my impression. The actual searching seems to still be further west.
A controlled detonation in a residential area? Yikes.
God, the accents on that radio traffic, bunch of facking Bastaners.
They just had the press conference. They said the Marathon, MIT, and Watertown incidents are all the same guys. One was killed in the shootout and the other is at large. Police are going door-to-door in Watertown looking for him.
Yeah, I'm listening to the scanner, search is still in progress.
It seems like the news sources have been remarkably consistent and accurate so far tonight.
Despite Twitter's mass confusion about "the naked guy".
The controlled detonation is apparently false, though.
391: Which is odd, since it was on at least one official police twitter feed. I don't guess there's any chance it already happened and the guy at the press conference was saying there wouldn't be another one?
There's something strange about living in a world where "official police twitter feed" is a thing.
That's a possibility that occurred to me, yeah.
The police twitter feeds have had some rapid changes in information; e.g., the location of the press conference. Maybe they planned a detonation but then called it off?
MIT is now saying police are setting up a perimeter around 500 Memorial Drive, where a suspicious package has been found.
The scanner now has a lot of stuff about how to handle commuters, including bicyclists, and keep them away from the scene.
The quality of the info fed to the public varies widely. Often a big factor is how big of an idiot the Lt./watch commander on duty is. My shift is currently lucky to have one of the good ones but like every other endeavor there's a certain number of people in the upper echelons that apparently are demonstration that the universe is fickle and all sorts of people can get promoted.
They put out a BOLO that the first subject had a device on his chest. Good luck taking the second guy alive with that going out over the radio.
401 & above: It's so helpful to have you around for a reality check.
Scanner's saying all the rail services have been suspended. Get those bikes out!
Damn Teo linking the scanner. I should go to bed.
Good morning from my home in Cambridge on the Watertown border! Anything exciting happening this morning? Oh look, I'm supposed to lock all my doors and my kid's preschool is closed!
Uh teach me to sleep what the hell
There's been various reports of possible sightings and they've got a cab stopped with a possible match on the occupant. They're sending EOD to check the trunk of the cab and the backpack but OTOH it sounds like the guy got cuffed peacefully so who knows.
Yeah, there seem to be a bunch of tips coming in. The cab is in a weird location not very close to Watertown, and there seemed to be quite a bit of skepticism about it when it was called in.
So what do you call it when school and work is closed for this? A bomb day seems insensitive. A manhunt day?
That cab doesn't seem solid at all, the open shed that just came out would be way more promising.
I just got a call on the landline, caller ID says it's from CODERED ALERT. I guess I should answer?
A manhunt day?
I think that's what you call it when you take off work for Pride.
Twitter now full of a new name for the second suspect (not the missing student that's been previously getting bandied despite not looking much at all like the photos).
DPW guys hanging out on the street in show of DEFIANCE, I guess.
More like a show of "I get paid by the hour, no way am I staying home".
I guess. They do have a building they could go into.
The scanner just cut out on me, so I guess I'll go to bed. From the sound of things the manhunt could go on for a while, or it could end suddenly if one of these leads pans out.
It's so helpful to have you around for a reality check.
Scenes involving multiple agencies tend to be a huge clusterfuck, especially coordinating the radio traffic and not all agencies are equal in competence. There's a multi agency fugitive unit around here that's such a mess that not only have we pulled out of it we've basically told them that we're not helping them arrest anyone unless it's to come help out if they're actively getting shot at.
419: Right? No idea where any of this could be going. I'm glad they got the first guy, but I do hope they bring in the other guy alive and we can get some idea of the motive.
re: 419
The photo on the guy's supposed VK page [linked by Blood and Treasure] does look like the guy from the CCTV pictures.
They do have a building they could go into.
No way. If they go in there they might encounter a supervisor who'll try and send them home.
About to do another controlled detonation, I guess.
Yow. I am fascinated to figure out what the politics of this are going to be.
Well, the guy's VK page has some boilerplate Allah-praising on it.
Boston.com News @BostonDotCom 3m RT @evanmallen: Cops shutting down Norfolk ave in Cambridge for operation telling everyone to leave @BostonDotCom
This is two blocks from our house!
They're shutting down a street a couple blocks from us.
WHAT THE HELL?! These guys were practically our neighbors?
Um, I've mentioned who was also my couple-of-blocks-down neighbor in Hamburg, right?
Norfolk is where they lived- the guy probably isn't there but might be some "controlled detonations" happening.
Easiest commute ever today. From my house to downtown in less than half the usual time. No one on the Mass Pike, despite the MBTA being completely shut down.
My office in JP was closed. I couldn't get there anyway, because the MBTA is down. My coworker works in Watertown which is pretty much locked down.
432: It certainly would be wise to monitor all foreign students living within a couple block radius of me, it seems.
Supposedly no cars allowed in or out of Watertown. I have no idea how the enforce that, maybe that's why there are about 500 police there now.
You've got nothing on the guy who witnessed both the bombing then the fertilizer plant when he went back home to TX.
435: Shouldn't that really be *your* responsibility, then, probability-distorter?
437: I think it was TAL had a story on a Japanese guy who survived the Hiroshima bomb, and over the next day or two struggled to get home to Nagasaki. He died not all that long ago, in his nineties.
They arrested a woman at the apartment- Sifu, go kick her!
438: Fuck, now I have to become a superhero. Well, you guys can all say you watched the unfolding of the origin story.
A friend of mine who is from Belfast sometimes jokes that IRA active service units seemed to follow him. He moved to London in the 80s, and shortly after there was the mortar attack on Downing street near where he worked; later he moved back to London after a long time away, to work at the BBC, there was a bomb there and a bomb in Ealing (where he lived at the time).
Well, you guys can all say you watched the unfolding of the origin story.
The baby can be your sidekick, with Sifu at home in the lab building you KILLER ROBOTS.
Alert system says to "shelter in place"- is that the one where you're supposed to get out the duct tape and plastic sheets?
re: 444
I'm imagining the baby in an Iron Man style exoskeleton, or a getup like Sigourney Weaver uses at the end of Aliens.
Probability Distorter is a pretty Cambridgesque name for a superhero.
WHAT THE HELL?! These guys were practically our neighbors?
Holy crap. I'm glad all this happened overnight so all of you Boston folks are inside. (Except for knecht. What the hell?)
Every goddamn state trooper in MA appears to be assembled half a mile from here. I'm picturing bank thieves in the rest of the state rubbing their hands in glee.
448: he's probably inside now. And he doesn't live in a town that's on lockdown.
Our crazy neighbor just sent us an email with the suspects picture and saying she saw someone that looked like that across the street. If she calls the cops we're going to have 100 police cars here in a couple minutes.
My coworker lives in Watertown. She works with me in Boston.
Caption for 449: "...Let's put the show on right here!"
When I woke up and heard that it had started on the MIT campus, all I could think is that MIT has very clear guidelines for what constitutes an ethical hack, and these guys completely failed to follow them.
Now you all can tell us what it would be like to live on the scene of an action movie, if the movie was real.
455: apparently a picture of the crime scene at MIT went out on the CSAIL list way before it hit the news. WTF, world.
The airport remains open, but all public transportation is shut down and taxi service just got suspended. A boon to the parking garages there, I guess.
Except for knecht. What the hell?
I was already at my desk when I got the email from corporate saying everyone should work from home today. Since I'm already here, I'll just stay here. Should be relatively free of distractions (apart from unfogged).
Foot chase in Watertown or something.
Might have him on Dexter St. Maybe went to ground fairly close to that scene? Earlier there was talk of fresh blood found on Dartmouth St.
458: Yeah, I'm at the airport right now, having violated the travel ban because I'm just that dedicated to the grad students whose conference I'm supposed to be keynoting this afternoon. I was thinking that it was going to be the best drive to the airport ever, and it was, until the end, when the police searched every single car coming in for fleeing Chechnyans.
Can hear the chopper over the site but can't see it- low clouds.
From looking at Google Maps it's sounding like Dexter Ave. Maybe around here?
Probability Distorter isn't a bad name and origin for a superhero and it does rather answer the question of how superheros end up finding far more crimes than the rest of us. Seriously, Batman sees two or three muggings in alleys on an average night just by crouching on a rooftop and looking down. THIS IS NOT AN EFFICIENT CRIME DETECTION TECHNIQUE. I've spent four days watching an alleyway in central London and the only vaguely antisocial thing I saw was a crowd of 150 women in gorilla costumes.
It's on Willow Park between Dexter and Quimby. SWAT van.
Something like that spot. I have a friend from the homebrewing club who is a couple of blocks from there.
Is the $4.99 car wash a good deal? That's what I want CNN to check.
#MediaAlert: WARNING: Do Not Compromise Officer Safety by Broadcasting Tactical Positions of Homes Being Searched.
465: I bet you completely failed to notice the two guys passing a basketball back and forth.
I will be totally annoyed if we get evacuated.
So, to fill in a minute before the next update from yonder Bostonians, there's a guy here who was mad at Verizon back in 2010, and told the customer service person over the phone to either get someone to take care of the problem, or he'd come down and bomb the [expletive] store. His trial (for intimidation) was yesterday.
[His name is Christ, btw.]
Jury deliberated 40 whole minutes.
Do Not Compromise Officer Safety by Broadcasting Tactical Positions of Homes Being Searched.
Heh, I think the element if surprise is long gone on this one.
465.last: why did you do that?
People claiming there's some Islam connection based on a youtube video they found from the older brother. But they're not brown! What are we supposed to do now?
I love that they're on the tac channel talking about how he's posting threats online. There was some static but I swear someone with a heavy Boston accent said to try and contact BPD because they had "intel about the internets".
Well, I'm just a town over from a locked-down town, Belmont, so I won't get evacuated and the town offices are open, but they called to let us know that we should exercise caution.
Huh. I just learned I have a 3rd degree connection to the dead MIT police officer.
It looks like they are concerned about the Norfolk St. apartment blowing up.
Islam connection. That one of the brothers was here since he was 9 is already giving rise to talk about sleeper cells on Fox News. They're worried that we won't be able to tell how many more of them are out there.
Kid who used to live next door knows the younger brother, went to high school with him.
We should make them all wear badges or something.
...only vaguely antisocial thing I saw was a crowd of 150 women in gorilla costumes..
Do not shoot the Wookie.
Somewhat remarkably, all the commotion did not interrupt the Friday doughnut delivery to my office. All mine!
475: 465.last: why did you do that?
Practice.
My kid is pissed, he saved his money for a whole year to buy the ridiculously expensive lego robot kit, and tracking says it's out for delivery from the UPS hub right next to the arsenal mall in Watertown.
Local TV now reduced to interviewing the suspect's high school classmate who exchanged hellos with him a few times.
378 381
You don't stop searching just because there is a chance the guy has gotten out of the area. It is quite likely he is still hiding nearby. A worry is that he has gotten into a house and has hostages.
ridiculously expensive lego robot kit,
The one with programmable logic, servo controls and an optical sensor? Can I have a playdate with your son once he gets it?
490: Be sure to have a stereotyped speech pattern and say "wicked" often. I'm upset that nobody on the news sounds like an SNL skit.
That's the one! I think he wants to build something that will recognize his brother and shoot balls at him.
Yeah Cambridge doesn't have that so much.
It's prefrosh weekend this weekend at Harvard.
I finally fell asleep at about 5:30 and just woke up. Of course, the names that half of Twitter were sure were the culprits last night turn out to be wrong.
Somerville apparently is not on lockdown?
You know that thing where you spend hours turning your code upside-down and searching bug lists and eventually discover that a user changed his stupid username two months ago to something including a character that needs shell-escaping so of course the queue is full because the cron job hasn't run in two months? that.
487: This is connected to that walrus story you told at Making Light?
Can I have a playdate with your son once he gets it?
Next on To Catch a Commenter....
I was really hoping the culprits wouldn't turn out to be Islamic. That can't be good for preventing more horrible things from following in retaliation.
Actually, where does one find the list of towns that are supposed to stay inside? I see "Boston, Cambridge, Waltham, Watertown, and several other nearby towns".
501: At least there's no chance of us invading Russia in response.
501: Likewise. Not that the Pamela Gellers of the world really need actual incidents to fuel their hatred.
Can people be Islamic, or only things like "faith" and "nation" and "calendar"?
502: + Belmont, Allston, Brighton, Newton.
I see. Newton, Brighton, Belmont. So they must be pretty sure that if he left Watertown he was heading west-ish?
I think it's all the cities that directly border Watertown, plus Boston just because.
He's not going to visit Somerville, even terrorists have standards.
Initially I thought the "You messed with the wrong city" bluster kind of ridiculous, but with all that has happened, I have to wonder if there is something to it. Would, say, Philadelphia or Dallas have gone to the same lengths to catch a suspect: shutting down all public transportation, telling businesses not to open their doors, putting a million or so people on lockdown?
When your public transportation system is a joke, shutting it down isn't that big a deal, so maybe.
Somerville, Medford, Malden, Brookline -- even on foot, there are a lot of places a person could have gone by now if they got out of the police perimeter. Just seems kind of arbitrary. Twitter is saying police in Connecticut are looking for a Honda the suspect may be driving?
Random Twitter comments are much more confusing now than they were last night when I was following in real time and could tell which ones were just confused.
Just went and took a picture of the cops and news cameras at the end of our block. Will add to the flickr pool in a minute.
511: Don't mess with Philly. We have the only police department that aerial-bombed a row home in a densely packed residential neighborhood, targeting a home known to hold about 10 kids as well as a few sort-of terrorists.
What is all this stuff I'm seeing about a third suspect?
I just noticed 470, which is great.
514: Yeah, when you're willing to bomb your own city, you don't really need to lock it down. Just blow up any place you think the terrorist might be hiding.
I'm in Philly now. It seems to have perpetually visible police. I don't know if that is always the case, but I think so.
Also, taller buildings and more Dunkin Donuts. Otherwise, basically the same as Pittsburgh.
HuffPo's rundown says an accomplice was arrested in Connecticut, on the train from Boston to NY. But I don't see that in articles in major media sites.
Also, taller buildings and more Dunkin Donuts.
On the latter dimension, Metro Boston does not admit of any rivals.
518: Normally you don't see police in Philly outside the parking lot of doughnut shops.
Blume was really wanting donuts a little while ago but the nearby DD is on the other side of the evacuation zone.
Last night when someone on the news said they were looking for a Caucasian male, I hadn't realized how literally they meant "Caucasian".
521: The Times blog said that a train in CT was searched, but no accomplice was mentioned.
We have the only police department that aerial-bombed a row home in a densely packed residential neighborhood
Yeah, but Frank Rizzo has been dead for decades. If we're going by historical accomplishments, Boston was willing react to a terrorist bombing by grabbing a couple of random immigrants and electrocuting them.
526: neither did they, I'm sure
DD is on the other side of the evacuation zone
Man up! What kind of wuss lets his pregnant wife go donut-less just because a couple of SWAT teams are in the way?
I'm in Philly now. It seems to have perpetually visible police
In Cleveland, the police are only visible as a wavering shadow under bright sunlight. In Salt Lake City, their uniforms bend light around them (but can be shorted out by immersion in water). In Des Moines, the police are transparent in the visible spectrum but emit a dim glow at the far end of the UV spectrum, and lengthy interrogations often result in the suspect sustaining painful sunburn. Atlanta PD's success in Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen transferance means that its police officers have a diameter less than that of an atomic nucleus in any of the three conventional dimensions we know; in the higher dimensions, they extend to several miles across. At shift end, they are transmitted back and emerge from the Manifold in their normal human forms.
Only in Philadelphia are the police perpetually visible.
Guys, we're a traditional champion in the most militarized police department, pioneering home bulldozering technology, went full insane machine gun fire on random women in a pick up truck for no reason and blew up a house just a few months ago, and the LAPD has randomly seemed to put even more choppers in the air near my house than usual this morning, so I'm calling victory in this inter-city contest.
Crazy news to wake up to this morning. Did anyone just hear the NPR interview with NPR's Robin Young, who apparently knew the younger suspect quite well? Unbelievable.
Current speculative inference based on sketchy data: Older brother (anti-social, not very assimilated) dragged younger brother (had friends, described as "a sweetheart" by former teacher) into it.
Six police vehicles from Nashua NH just drove by, including their "special reaction force" vehicle.
It's because LA cops have to keep trim to fit in with the models and actors, and can't avail themselves of the calming effects of Dunkin Donuts.
I mean, he went to the fancy public high school in Cambridge, the one Matt Damon and Ben Affleck went to, and was apparently reasonably popular and well liked, played sports and so on. Also the neighborhood he lived in is not known for harboring terrorist bombers IF I MAY SO.
News reports the WH situation room activated- maybe they are planning to invade Russia?
That is, Patrick Ewing went to CRLS, not that we're planning to invade Patrick Ewing.
Invading Patrick Ewing would definitely be easier.
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Is it worth it for me to get into a fight with my cow-orker about the use of the word 'dampening' when what is meant is 'damping?' It's a mistake so common as to almost be accepted usage, but it really gets under my skin. This is for publication in a downmarket journal, so I should probably not get worked up about it, but I need to vent a little.
|>
The rally-round-the-flag effect could be weaker, though.
New reports are that the older brother had a domestic violence arrest. I propose instead of invading anywhere, we instead treat all domestic abusers as potential terrorists.
To jump back to West, TX:
"Fertilizer plant explodes near Waco" sure has a lot of symbolic resonance to anyone who remembers the spate of violence associated with the American extreme right in the mid-nineties, though.
Down here, we don't really think of West as near Waco in particular; we think of it as where the Czech Stop is.
Bomb Grozny back to the stone age 1995!
I never had a kolache in TX. Did I miss anything?
541: Can you correct it as if it were a simple typo, or have they already staked out an affirmative position in favor?
In my tiny suburb in South Jersey our police force made a big show of presence early this morning, driving up and down the neighborhoods, apparently in case the Chechnyan menace chose to hide out here. They've done this on several occasions when there's a big police event anywhere on the east Coast.
492: My friend's kid is part of a park board sponsored group that meets every Saturday to play with Mindstorms kits. Maybe if you put your hair in pigtails with some Hello Kitty barrettes you could pass?
Holy smokes, I didn't see the news until just now. Bizarre and scary. Boston friends and lurkers, sending all my good thoughts your way.
Really sad and awful. I hope they catch him before anyone else gets hurt.
I really want to get one of those kits for my nephews, but they're beyond my budget. Also, my nephews live too far away for me to get to play with it.
Also, before anyone says (not here, but on FB or whatever) "I can't understand this senseless violence" I will offer the following example of thought processes at work:
My parents moved the family here when I was old enough to consider myself a citizen of our real home. I grew up in exile in this weird place where the kids are all obsessed with sex and getting drunk, and no one knows their heritage or respects traditional values. Most of them have never heard of my homeland, and if they have, they're completely confused about why we had to leave. I'll show these assholes that all those people that were murdered back home didn't die in vain. After today, they're going to know who I am and where I came from, and maybe then they'll start caring.
If you wanted to find a place on the world map that is miserable and fucked up through no fault of the US, Chechnya is a good choice.
Frank Rizzo has been dead for decades
Point of interest: Rizzo, infamous though he is, did not bomb the rowhome. That honor goes to W. Wilson Goode, the city's first African-American mayor.
Interestingly, Goode has gone on to have one of the more socially responsible post-mayoral careers, focusing heavily on mentorship programs for children of incarcerated parents.
I'm surprised "dampening" is common in place of "damping". The one that annoys me frequently, which is totally a losing battle, is "convolute" where I would say "convolve".
Most activists I knew blamed our illustrious ex-governor, TV sports talk show regular, and District Attorney at the time Ed Rendell for the bombing.
Really, the glory days of Philadelphia behind it -- Frank Rizzo is dead, they haven't booed Santa Claus in years, they tore down the old stadium with the courthouse for unruly fans. Now it's all pretentious Belgian beer and shit.
After the the MOVE bombing, I said to myself "Goode needs to be punished -- I'm voting for the Republican." And then the Republicans nominated Frank Rizzo as their candidate. WTF, Republicans?
439: The guy who is the only official survivor of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki is named Tsutomi Yamaguchi. He died of stomach cancer, yes, but in 2010. So clearly radiation is harmless.
545
Down here, we don't really think of West as near Waco in particular; we think of it as where the Czech Stop is.
So there's an Eastern European connection to both of them. Very suspicious indeed.
At this point, I don't even think you could offer even money on whether the perp survives the day. The over-under would have to be on the number of bullet wounds he sustains in the climactic shoot-out.
I'm surprised at the amount of "Hey Boston, taste of your own medicine, eh?" sentiment from British people on Twitter. Was not aware that the first thing that comes to mind when you hear "Boston" is "Certain mob-connected pubs having IRA fundraisers 30 to 40 years ago".
They say he's wearing an explosive vest, I think the question is whether he goes up or not.
Was not aware that the first thing that comes to mind when you hear "Boston" is "Certain mob-connected pubs having IRA fundraisers 30 to 40 years ago".
I had an English partner bag unexpectedly on short notice on a dinner event being held at an Irish pub. He said, "I don't do Irish pubs." I thought he was just being snobby about the food, and said something about how it would probably be edible. He repeated emphatically, "I don't do Irish pubs," at which point I grokked what he was on about. This particular yuppie-style venue was an unlikely candidate for having hosted any IRA fundraisers, IMO.
563: Ajay already brought it up at 314. I think it's easy for Americans to underestimate how strongly Brits feel about IRA terrorism -- I had a disturbing experience talking to some Scottish guy in a bar in Samoa where I said something honestly not supportive of bombing anything, but vaguely anti-English on the whole subject of Ireland. All of a sudden the guy was in my face shouting about how he'd had a friend come home from Northern Ireland in a bag! in a bag! and I figured he was going to hit me. Then he remembered I was (a) a girl, and (b) an American who didn't know any better, called me a brave lass, and eventually left the bar with the NZ volunteer I'd gone out drinking with, leaving me to spend the remainder of the evening flirting with a mildmannered, calm NZ sewerage engineer. I never really got the attraction to scary men.
Weird night overall.
The cops probably have donuts. If you walked up to the cordon and asked for some for your pregnant wife, the morning might get more interesting.
My pregant wife has expressed that she doesn't want me to go walk down to the cordon.
HERE WE ARE NOW ENTERTAIN US
Let's have one of those threads where people make up amusing poems.
I was rebellious and went outside to water the garden.
SP just inadvertently gave the terrorist life-saving water.
inadvertently
What do we really know about this so-called "SP"?
What do we really know about this so-called "SP"?
That he uses straw purchasers to acquire materials that can be used to construct killer robots, for one thing.
re: 566
Well, if you think about it, this Boston bombing thing. Imaging that happening every few weeks or at most every few months, for 30 years.
I don't feel that strongly about it personally myself, but when you have that kind of thing, it's understandable why a lot of people might feel really strongly about it.
It wouldn't surprise me if the Scottish guy was i) a prod, and ii) had mates who served in the Army there. So you've got the combination of lots of Scottish blokes in the army, and also the element of sectarianism that's present, which could heighten things a bit. Although Scotland was never a target for IRA terrorism itself.
re: 566
Further to the above, I think it's probably quite hard for Americans to grasp how ever-present shit-blowing-up was in British life for a very long time. Most strongly for people actually in the North of Ireland, but also elsewhere.
I think it's probably quite hard for Americans to grasp how ever-present shit-blowing-up is.
I just read on FB that my pater has decided that being safe in the marina over by the airport was too easy or something. So now he's hanging out at Au Bon by Harvard. Sheesh. (How he got there, even on his bicycle, I can't figure.)
(Yeah, he's probably right that the he is safe. Still.)
581.1: Is it even open? Things are spookily shut down right now, even here in Somerville where we haven't officially been told to stay indoors. But maybe the chess aficionados can't be kept away.
Well, the check -in location was the Au Bon in the square. I chastised him and when he replied he didn't say that he wasn't there. But maybe the store isn't open.
I never had a kolache in TX. Did I miss anything?
IMO, it's the same thing that they have under different European names, in all parts of the US. But I'm not a connoisseur. Pastry with fruit or meat in the middle.
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More from FB:
Walking in downtown Houston and was asked by three different people for money. Even though I didn't have any money to give them, I was able to give them hope knowing that they're loved by God!
No comment.
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Dunkin Donuts remains open to "take care of the needs of law enforcement."
577: pretty much. In the bad periods - the early seventies, the late eighties - there would be some sort of potentially or actually lethal incident (a shooting, a car bomb discovered, a drogue bomb attack on a patrol, a culvert bomb hitting a vehicle patrol, a bomb disposal officer being killed, a demonstrator being hospitalised by a baton round) every day.
There were, after all, more than 3000 killed in the 29 years that the Troubles lasted, and many times that number wounded.
Man, lockdown gets dull.
This is the perfect time for awkward pregnacy photos.
WHy did one of those guys have an anti-Chechen joke as one of his last posts on his RUssian Facebook thing? You'd think that a hardcore Chechen militant wouldn't be writing stuff like 'A Chechen, a Dagestani, and an Ingush are in a car. Who is the driver? - The police'
I also skimmed through two of the Islamic vids he had posted. One was of some kid who had memorized the Koran, the other a more militant, but not crazy level vid on Syria. Maybe I missed something since my Russian sucks, but none of this screamed 'jihadi terrorist'.
koláč is not savory. Sweet but not overwhelming, done right made with either something like cream cheese but fluffier, preserves, or lightly-sweetened poppyseed filling.
A light touch with the sugar is important for these to be good, IME found at ethnic bakeries much more often than storefronts for basically industrial production.
re: 590
Definitely the version with the poppy-seed, for me. Makovy koláč. Delicious.
585: I often find Facebook memes annoying myself, but your feed seems really, really bad. Maybe you shouldn't have so many friends.
Just went and checked out the police cordon. Definitely a scene. 7/11 and the barber shop are open, but everywhere else is a ghost town.
The NBC folks on TV were just speculating wildly about what the younger suspect would have had to go through to become a US citizen. Yeah, because it's not as if you could have someone go research that information with a google search or something.
Dude the Texas kolache is way weird. Back when I was destroying my body with grain, I bit into a what looked like an ordinary roll offered in a formal breakfast meeting in Houston and found a small hot dog inside. That does not happen elsewhere in the US.
NPR said that the one guy who's now dead had a Christian wife, which also doesn't scream hardcore jihadi. Also they were from Kirghizistan and according to family members the family had lived there since the 1940s and had zero contact with the Chechen war.
koláč is not savory.
The things they call kolaches around here are often filled with ham and cheese, or jalapenos and cream cheese, and stuff like that. For example.
Oh, I didn't link directly to the menu. Anyway:
Sausage Kolache
Single or by the dozen ($9.61). $.89
Fruit Kolache
Peach, apple, cherry, blueberry, strawberry, lemon & apricot. Single or by the dozen ($11.34). $1.05
Cream Cheese Kolache
Single or by the dozen ($11.34). $1.05
Chocolate Cream Cheese Kolache
Single or by the dozen ($12.42). $1.15
Spinach Kolache
Single or by the dozen ($18.25). $1.69
Bacon & Cheddar Cheese Kolache
Single or by the dozen ($15.23). $1.41
Ham & Cheese Kolache
Single or by the dozen ($15.23). $1.41
Sausage & Cheese Kolache
Single or by the dozen ($16.09). $1.49
Egg & Cheese Kolache
Single or by the dozen ($24.19). $2.24
Sausage & Gravy Kolache
Single or by the dozen ($18.90). $1.75
Because that's a good use of pixels that everyone will find super-fascinating.
I bit into a what looked like an ordinary roll offered in a formal breakfast meeting in Houston and found a small hot dog inside. That does not happen elsewhere in the US.
heebie's doing her part to keep the Bostonians on lockdown entertained.
There's going to do a controlled explosion at the place two blocks from Sifu and Blume's place, if I understood the press conference correctly.
Im still right; nobody has breakfast meetings in West Virginia because they're all sleeping off the moonshine and rolling off their first cousin.
I guess vegetarians in Texas have to proceed very carefully with their breakfast.
If only someone had gotten off his ass and actually built a robot, it could wheel two blocks down and take care of the bomb without the police having to worry.
600: While eating once at Blue Ribbon Bakery, I bit into something pulled from the bread basket and it was filled with ham.
I guess vegetarians in Texas have to proceed very carefully with their breakfast.
If only someone had gotten off his ass and actually built a robot, it could wheel two blocks down and take care of the bomb
As it happens, the manufacturer of the IED-busting robot is just up the road in Waltham. You can buy your own (civilian version) for the price of a mid-sized car.
606 That reminds me of the disgusting English candy drill in Gravity's Rainbow with the Marmalade Surprise filled with mayonnaise and orange peels.
I'm furious at four instructors who royally dropped the ball, on tasks that they were going to cover on my behalf. The result is that some students worked incredibly hard on some presentations, and gave talks to an audience of 4 people, because I'd asked the instructors to promote the event (by offering extra credit) in my absence, and clearly they didn't.
There is no good way to inform them "Hey, this one-off task that I asked you do to - you forgot. And it sucks for the students involved."
I think we should help heebie with some FB posts of her own:
There is a tribe of perhaps well-intentioned but unthinking twits who post things on Facebook that they attribute to unspecified "Africans." The tribe believes that a billion people spread across 12 million square miles are pretty much the same.
The tribe believes that these indistinguishable Africans hold the magical wisdom of Those WhoAre Not WhiteLive Close to the Earth. The tribe recognizes that this is especially true if the story is accompanied by a photo of a mother looking earnestly into the camera, particularly if you can see her boobs. And the tribe passes on these stories to show us that the simple, unsophisticated, indistinguishable Africans have so much to teach us normal people who use Facebook.
I'm sure y'all can do much better.
602: yep. I will be sure to tell unfogged whether it's loud or not.
The twitternet is going nuts about a supposed hostage situation people are claiming to have heard about on the police scanner.
Some dude's office chair got shot last night in Watertown.
And his calendar! Hope he doesn't have any plans on the second Thursday of any month this year.
I'm sure y'all can do much better.
596.last: That probably means their family was sent there as part of Stalin's ethnic cleansing.
611: I've got one. This one has been showing up among my HS friends:
Its been said that everlasting friends go long periods of time without speaking and never question their friendship. These friends pick up phones like they just spoke yesterday, regardless of how long it has been or how far away they live, and they don't hold grudges. They understand that life is busy and that you will always love them. Share if you have at least 1 of these friends, and they will know who they are.
It's posted as an image, and the text has the MS Word squiggle under the first word. The sentiment is fine, but that first word makes me have to hide the thing each time it comes up.
Looks like 613 was nonsense. Calm down, tweeters.
It is pretty weird seeing helicopter news footage of your own neighborhood.
616: OK, yeah. heebs should just post that.
621: Is that the author who wrote the hilarious letter to Madonna?
Ah, yes it is!
606: When I was a vegetarian living in Barcelona that stealth ham-in-bread thing got me more than once. I got in the habit of inquiring about jamón in all the bread products I bought, just to be sure. It worked pretty well until the day a baker stood up very straight, looking mortally offended, and pronounced, "JAMÓN, IMPOSIBLE." Took me a second to realize which side of Barcelona I was on, and that this was a halal bakery.
The sentiment is fine
It is, but that expression of it still annoys me more than it should because I'm mean and judgey. Plus "share if you...." Blech.
"Share this if you've every known anyone who has done something."
"JAMÓN, IMPOSIBLE."
Tom Cruise was great in this one, but the special effects were kind of lame.
JAMÓN IMPOSIBLE
Is a good pseud for anyone wanting to delurk.
"Share this if you have ever perceived physical objects."
626 is some low hanging fruit. Or deli meat. Whatever.
622: That's great.
As a civil society activist working on the African girl child I would love to talk with you about coming to Kenya where the girl child needs you very much. She is surrounded by wild animals! And corruption!
My charming Israeli coworker who has expressed such opinions as "the New York Times should really call itself the Jihadi Times" and "women in the military can do nothing useful, there can be only so many secretaries" is now opining on Facebook that the manhunt is "hilarious".
629 - If I'd been thinking quicker, I'd have praised the special effects but complained that Tom Cruise really hammed it up.
Obligatory Bob Marley joke may be taken as read.
Related, I heard Jimmy Carter talk about eradicating guinea worm and was wondering how the Carter Center does in terms of interacting with governments and organizations in the countries they work in.
In any case, worldwide cases have gone from 3 million to essentially zero which, praise be, because omigod.
Little did we know that the guinea worm was the only natural predator of History's Greatest Monster.
For no reason at all, I'm wondering if there is a polite, non-suspicious way to tell my relatives that, if I'm ever in trouble, please stay away from reporters?
That Moby, he seemed pretty antisocial, didn't like us talking to people.
Dunkin Donuts remains open to "take care of the needs of law enforcement."
Fuck yeah. The first one here is getting built right now downtown across from the library. I'm not dignified enough to pretend I'm not excited .
They're not particularly exciting donuts. Respectable, functional donuts, but they're not going to blow your mind.
I think what gets people excited is the coffee, which is actually gently melted mocha frosting.
639 is right. Coffee is about the same. Compared to $20 hotel eggs, it's great.
631: an Israeli thinks women in the military are useless? Has he never been to Israel?
essear, Au Bon Pain is open in the square. And, since the T was shut, my progenitor biked from East Boston to Harvard via Chelsea, Everett, and Somerville. Again, Sheesh!
Also, would he like to meet my first cousin, a lieutenant-colonel and former commando who kills people with her mind? I'm sure she's be happy to debate the merits of women serving in the military with him.
I'm offering up my typos as comfort to the people of Boston.
So, locking down a city and searching house-to-house to hunt one murderer. Does this seem like a massive, panicky, fear-inducing overreaction to anyone else?
644: Are you sure she doesn't just kill people in her mind. That's a lot more common.
642: he was also a climate change denier for a while. Real charming guy, as I said. Can't figure out why his job interviews aren't going more smoothly.
On the overall picture, I'm almost certian that there is no connection to any larger terrorist organization, and I doubt there's any serious politial motivation. These guys didn't leave town after the bombing. Then they tried to rob a convenience store immediately after their pictures appeared on every facebook page in my feed, and apparently other news outlets also. So they had no support of any kind. It hadn't occurred to them, or to anyone else helping them, that having a bus ticket and a few hundred dollars in cash might be useful when you're about to become a fugitive. It also didn't occur to them to wear masks. They're like the Columbine yahoos but with a much lower body count.
649: your workplace sounds incredibly horrible to me. No wonder you travel so much.
to hunt one murderer
Who may be wearing an explosive vest, and who had explosives as recently as last night, and whose apartment apparently had more explosives in it?
650: They pretty clearly were unprepared for having their pictures splashed across every media outlet.
652: He's obviously a dangerous guy, but at a certain point aren't the actions of the BPD et al a terrorism force multiplier?
There is nothing respectable about a Dunkin "Donut". They are doughnut-shaped objects that serve only to prevent the purveyance of actual doughnuts. Dunkin Donuts is a scourge upon mankind, especially the Boston part.
To put it another way, would-be terrorists willing to sacrifice their lives have now learned that one can shut a city down with some pressure cookers and gun powder.
How would you handle it, Eggplant? Drop some counter-terrorism, on-the-manhunt-tip knowledge, bro.
642 was my thought exactly.
653.1 I was worried for a while that they might have been smart enough to have gotten one of those realistic "old man" masks as made the news a few years ago (e.g. http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/11/young_man_in_ol.html )
There are all these tiresome bagel purists out there, but foolishmortal may be the first tiresome donut purist.
I like the Dunkin' Donuts here, because it's a combination DD/Baskin-Robbins. The Baskin-Robbins part is one of the few places in town that does a chocolate malt.
As a nod to my Southern roots I have to say: if you're going to eat an insubstantial sugary donut, Dunkin Donuts is no Krispy Kreme.
I thought the lockdown was not just out of fear of further violence the remaining suspect might inflict, but also to make it as hard as possible for him to sneak away unnoticed. Add to that the desire to reduce the change of bystanders getting caught in the crossfire when they do find him.
I must say, given that the only people on the streets are armed law-enforcement officers (and reporters) I'm surprised the guy has managed to hide this long.
661: I think there's also some fear that there may be other bombs, so they'd like to take him alive. Yes, I just wrote "take him alive." It was very exciting for me.
656: How are manhunts normally handled? His picture is everywhere, he has no partner, no help, he's making panicked decisions.
This donut talk is making me want a fritter.
I'm surprised the guy has managed to hide this long.
It's so, so easy for your containment and/or search to get fucked by incompetence. Everyone on the job has a story or three along the lines of the guy who's supposed to be manning a corner on containment and is inside his car surfing the web on his phone or some shit.
661 last: I find this mildly surprising too, especially, as 650 points out, since these guys don't seem like masterful escape artists. If he's on foot, why haven't they found him? If he's in a green 99 civic, why isn't there tv news chase footage and a row of black and whites behind him? Do the Boston/Cambridge PD not have helicopters? Nb I have no real idea what I'm talking about in terms of tactics.
And calling this guy a murderer doesn't do it justice. He's not some guy who knifed his drug dealer and just wants to get away. He's willing to make and set off bombs in crowds, take hostages, and get in shoot outs with the cops. His youth and lack of training means it's not quite worst case scenario for a guy on the run but he's pretty close.
663: he's reportedly wearing an explosive vest; he's already killed several people; he may have planted other bombs; he may have more accomplices (we have no earthly idea); etc.
Look, closing down Boston is lousy, no doubt. And the way in which this nightmare has served as an illustration for Mike Davis's ideas about the carceral city (or whatever he called it) freaks me out. Still, there's a mass murderer running around, and the authorities want to catch him before he kills any more people. Absent a better way of doing that than closing the city, I guess I'm not ready to criticize.
What Eggplant is saying is basically what my coworker was saying on Facebook: that American police are incompetent, and in the rest of the world no one would ever shut down a city to catch a single terrorist. He also says the terrorist is stupid and poorly-trained and therefore easy to catch. I'm tempted to suggest that he go do it himself.
654: You should move to Minneapolis. The closest Dunkin Donuts "restaurant" is over 200 miles away.
The closest Dunkin Donuts "restaurant"
Ooh, I bet those quote marks really hurt all the Dunkin Donuts cooks who are reading.
Bakers? Pastry chefs? Whatever I meant there.
It is worth pointing out that the lockdown is fucking voluntary.. I went for a walk! 7/11 is open! And that's right around the corner from an active scene. Personally I'm perfectly happy to hang out and wait for this ugly business to finish.
Says the guy who won't even get his pregnant wife a donut. In a city awash in donuts!
After the LAPD horseshit a month ago, the Boston PD would really have to fuck things up to look any worse.
671: I don't actually dislike Dunkin Donuts. They're better than Krispy Kreme, in my opinion. The ones the little independent bakery a couple of miles from me makes blow any type of chain store donut out of the water completely, of course.
Forget the molasses flood. The great donut deluge was the real deal.
I am very fond of Donut Plant.
674: I did, however, get her ice cream.
It's so, so easy for your containment and/or search to get fucked by incompetence. Everyone on the job has a story or three along the lines of the guy who's supposed to be manning a corner on containment and is inside his car surfing the web on his phone or some shit.
I can see that, but judging by the news reports Watertown currently has the greatest concentration of cops per square inch ever assembled in the history of anywhere, ever. Even if you manage to sneak past the guy who's goofing off, there are still five more guys behind him that you've got to try to sneak past. I can only infer that he's either found a very good rock to hide under, or he was already somewhere else when all the cops showed up. Purely uninformed layman speculation on my part, of course.
There's a fair chance that he escapted the lockdown area before it was set up, when it was dark and the police were still on their way in. If he reached the Megabus or Greyhound station last night he could be in Cleveland by now.
I couldn't begin to second guess the police on specific decisions like shutting the city down, but there is a general point here that is certainly correct: an intense, fearful reaction gives the terrorists what they want.
The more we treat them like common criminals, the less power they have. I don't know how you would handle a manhunt for someone who committed a non-politically motivated triple homicide in a less public area, but the more we treat this case like one of those cases, the less ground we give them.
Of course, all of this ties directly to our willingness to protect civil liberties.
he could be in Cleveland by now
We're killing Ohioans in the other thread. Try to keep up.
That's why I asked about the helicopters. If something like the MIT incident had gone down in LA, even at night, you would have had helicopters and lights blazing everywhere almost immediately, before a huge perimeter could be set up. But maybe that did happen and it didn't matter. Or maybe he's just locked himself in a dumpster in the area and they'll find him soon enough.
679: This comes from reading too much caper fiction, and I'm not actually rooting for the guy to escape. But in the movie version, they haven't caught him because he's in a blue uniform he stole somehow, leaning against a car and eating a donut.
Two helicopters have been circling over Watertown since this morning. Must be burning a lot of fuel.
An intense, fearful reaction like the fucking barber shop twenty feet from the police line staying open? I am not fearful at all, but I am beyond pleased to hunker down for a few hours and give the police time and space to deal with this. People who aren't can fucking well go out and enjoy themselves (and, in most of the area, they are doing exactly that).
I like to picture him hiding underwater in the lake across the street, wearing a dry suit and breathing through a reed.
666: "Murderer" was an inadequate shorthand, I agree. I don't want to minimize what this guy has done. I don't want it maximized, either.
668: Unsurprisingly, I wasn't saying any of that.
I understand that no official wants to be accused of not having done enough in high profile events like this, but is this Boston situation sui generis, or is it now the gold standard for responding to such events?
We're still taking off our shoes and handing in water bottles at airports. This isn't that much of an overreaction.
And I don't think it's giving anyone what they want -- either with the shoes, or the lockdown.
668: Unsurprisingly, I wasn't saying any of that.
Yeah, sorry.
I like how the TSA relaxed the ban on knives on planes but maintained the liquid ban at full strength.
687: if you weren't living in a city gripped by panic, Blume would be eating a donut right now. Everyone knows that ice cream is the pregnancy treat of the fearful.
654: Their coffee is honest, basic coffee. I like good coffee, but I hate Starbucks burnt coffee and am (in a totally snobby/reverse snobby way) galled by people who like Starbucks and look down on Dunkin Donuts coffee. I enjoy better quality coffee from independent shops, mind you.
I like the Dunkin Donuts coffee roll. Other than the pumpkin muffin, I think that their muffins are artificial, but their doughnuts are not bad.
I also like Tim Horton's coffee which you can get in Maine. They used to have decent baked goods, but now they are all baked offsite. If you dislike Dunkin Donuts doughnuts, you will hate what they serve at Tim's now (*even* if what you want is a maple doughnut).
*even* if what you want is a maple doughnut
I won't be baited. But yes, I do want a maple donut.
660: They opened a Krispy Kreme in Sacramento, and it was great. The lines were blocking traffic. A few years later I went to one in DC. It wasn't as popular. They had the "hot" sign up when the doughnuts looked pretty stale.
if you weren't living in a city gripped by panic, Blume would be eating a donut right now.
Actually, probably not. I'm with foolishmortal on DD donuts. And the new hipster donut shop with the CHOCOLATE CHIPOTLE donuts closed for a few weeks while they move to a better location.
691: No worries. It's obviously a subject that requires more tact than I can muster.
Probably a better location business-wise, but I am a teeny bit hipster-disappointed not to have to trek over to the area by the used car lot next to the elevated highway.
673: Is it voluntary in Watertown proper?
Truth is I eat donuts once in a blue moon. But I drink coffee all day every day and our impending DD is in a hobo nexus of being next to the main city library and on a light rail stop in the free fare zone. Is it unseemly to wonder if this will result in free coffee for cops to deter undesirables?
Depends where in watertown. There was footage of a guy who wanted to walk his dog and they made him go back in before it could piss.
It's voluntary everywhere. Nobody is going to get arrested for leaving their house.
Okay, except I guess wherever piss-dog guy was.
a guy who wanted to walk his dog and they made him go back in before it could piss
This is my nightmare, people.
I think I'm in a time loop. The Boston Globe is tweeting as BREAKING NEWS stuff that I heard on TV eight hours ago.
Yeah, that BREAKING NEWS on the heels of the tweet about Watertown officials not having any news.
Is "Tamerlan" Chechen for Timur/Tamerlane/Tamburlaine?
The Onion breaking news is pretty good.
Maybe also Russian for Tamerlane? This movie which I found looks pretty good.
Another short break from the Boston action. There are no Dunkin Donut stores in Pablo Mont.
I did this solidarity run in Oakland last night. I hadn't seriously run any real distance in about 18 years, but a) didn't stop to walk and b) matched my worst high school race pace anyway. This greatly lifted my spirits during a week jam-packed with bad news, including the untimely death of Scott Miller, voice of my late teens and most of my late-teenage sojourns in Boston. Fuck this shit already. Fuck the bombs in Pakistan too.
Another thing to fuck:
http://colorlines.com/archives/2013/04/the_post-boston_islamophobic_hate_crimes_have_begun.html
If this incident has told us nothing else, it has answered the question: what does it take these days to get a thread near 1,000? Also something something human spirit something.
715: Dammit. I had a foolish hope that their being white would keep that kind of thing down.
638: "We're getting a Dunkin Donuts! They have those where you're from, right, Dr. Cala?" I'm not a huge fan of donuts but this area is donut-challenged -- the twee artisanal donut place here makes them too sweet to be palatable.
Could go for a box of Timbits but Calgary is a bit far for a drive.
I was so disappointed the first time I had a hot Krispy Kreme doughnut. After the big buildup, it was just hot, disgustingly sweet goo. (I realize that's a feature for some people.)
The tribute to the Krispy Kreme on Route 1 in Alexandria, VA, isn't Last Train Home's best song, but it has a certain charm. (Skip the first 40 seconds.)
718: You could get Timbits if you were going to Dayton for the Air Show!
I still haven't had a hot Krispy Kreme and don't think any stores were even open up here until I was in high school, so I think that proves I'm not really from the South.
I just looked up the qualifying times to enter the Boston Marathon. If I could ran a full marathon at my half marathon pace, I could enter if I were 75 years old.
Incidentally, I just found out, at lunch, that the person who runs my favorite cafe in town ran in the Boston marathon and finished while before the bombings happened (he said three hours even). I knew he is a runner, but that's impressive.
The missing bomber looks like he could be a younger brother to my Persian ex. It's a little unsettling.
I had a foolish hope that their being white
Caucasians from the Caucasus, no less. Sorry, this is about religion, not skin color.
If this blog post is legit then I think I've seen the mother walking down our street a lot (diverse neighborhoods, but not too many people in full Burkas), usually with a somewhat less covered younger woman and a kid.
Sorry, this is about religion
Actually, it's about two assholes, one of whom is now dead.
Actually, it's about two assholes, one of whom is now dead
Tru dat. I sincerely hope that they are to catch perp #2, if only to ask "Why?"
And given the basic Masshole IQ, I would be very careful were I a Sikh. Just sayin'.
Actually, it's about two assholes, one of whom is now dead.
[If only to try to get this thread to 1000, I should point out that] building and setting off bombs that kill and maim people rises above the level of mere assholery.
If we're gonna declare Global War on Assholes, ain't many people gonna be left in the post-apocalyptic wasteland.
Well, shit, I used to live on Norfolk St, long time ago. That neighborhood was super diverse.
essear, Au Bon Pain is open in the square. And, since the T was shut, my progenitor biked from East Boston to Harvard via Chelsea, Everett, and Somerville. Again, Sheesh!
I don't make donuts at home, so I could see biking to Dunkin Donuts if I had a bike and really wanted donuts. I don't think I'd go very far for Au Bon Pain, at least not if I was going there for a sandwich or salad.
Sorry, this is about religion, not skin color.
I don't think there is enough of a real distinction between religious intolerance and racial intolerance to make this a practical difference.
729: yes, extra-super-giant gaping assholes. But somewhere along the vector of personal assholery is where we will find our answer, I think.
I'd say the police presence here is more visible than usual, but really, that just means I saw a couple of bike cops riding along a street where there's often a police car on Fridays. I heard sirens twice, possibly for different calls (one was distant, one on the street outside my apartment) during my 20 minute walk home, but that's not unusual.
Shelter-in-place lifted. Nineteen-year-old still at large, but I kinda betcha he's skipped town, you know?
Maybe he's dead in a basement or something.
but I kinda betcha he's skipped town
Keep an eye out though. Dorner was under their nose for like a week in an area with a lot less buildings.
Yeah. And I imagine he doesn't have much in the way of connections elsewhere.
Dorner had training that this guy does not seem to have, though.
This one just came across my FB feed, quite a specimen in that it's 1) not true (I didn't think Robin Williams was a wingnut); 2) 10 years old, Snopes says from 2003; 3) Includes the precious "Hard to argue with this logic!" Yes, very very hard.
You gotta love Robin Williams
Maybe HE should run for the Big Office!!
YOU HAVE TO LOVE HIM... A MUST READ... HE MADE THIS SPEECH IN NEW YORK .
The Plan!
Robin Williams, wearing a shirt that says 'I love New York ' in Arabic.
You gotta love Robin Williams........Even if he's nuts! Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan. What we need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up and repeat this message.
Robin Williams' plan...(Hard to argue with this logic!)
'I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan.'
1) 'The US, UK , CANADA and AUSTRALIA will apologize to the world for our 'interference' in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those 'good 'ole' boys', we will never 'interfere' again.
2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting withGermany , South Korea , the Middle East, and the Philippines . They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.
3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of whom or where they are from. They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.
4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit!!!! No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.
5) No foreign 'students' over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't att end classes, they get a 'D' and it's back home baby.
6) The US, UK , CANADA and AUSTRALIA will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing non-polluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.
7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)
8) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not 'interfere..' They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army.. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.
9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island someplace. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.
10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us 'Ugly Americans' any longer. The Language we speak is ENGLISH...learn it...or LEAVE. Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?
The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying 'Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'you want a piece of me?' '
If you agree with the above, Share or forward it to friends...If not, well I would be amazed if you DELETED it!!
That's charming. I wonder if Canadian universities are hiring.
Shots fired in Watertown. 15 police cars have gone by our house full speed in the last 5 minutes.
Holy crap. Was he sheltering in place?
741: If not, maybe you can get a job in Canada's Mexico City food truck.
No offense to you all, but the world becomes a very scary place when unfogged is my go-to source for up-to-the-minute news.
Latest scene is halfway between where they were this morning (the mall) and our house. By the diner where we often have breakfast on weekends.
Wait, now the TV is showing two places, once closer to us, one further away. I think the shots are the further place, closer to Watertown Sq. (Franklin St.)
745: Still no word where Andrew Wiggins will be playing next year.
I wouldn't say that unfogged is my go to source; I'm just avoiding pretty much all others.
||
Hey, since VW, Tweety, and Blume are all checking this thread, is this the right one to turn into a bike thread? I'm probably going to be in the market for a commuter/city bike in the not-too-distant future and could use recommendations.
|>
751: But enough about the ongoing gunbattle -- let's talk about what's really important.
Globe says he's pinned down in a boat behind some building.
Oh man, they had the killer robot out to go get him but then they put it back in the truck.
In a boat? Unless he's got water somewhere nearby, that's totally not going to work.
747: Are you prepared to declare your loyalty to the Harper government?
751: send me an e-mail. I'm happy to help.
754: NBC says near the Charles River.
...is where the shots were fired. NBC hasn't mentioned a boat.
752: I'm just doing my part to get this thread to 1000.
I think NBC is wrong, they had the shots on TV and it's not near the river. There was the other site that is closer to us that is somewhat closer to the river, but the Arsenal mall from this morning is actually the closest to the river of any of the sites discussed.
It's a boat in the back yard at 67 Franklin St., if the Daily Intelligencer twitter feed is to be believed.
Franklin is not near the river. There is another site on TV that's on the south bank that is close to the river, Maple St.
You know, after all this, I really hope that kid is okay. Let's stop the fucking tragedies.
Catching up with the thread:
They're like the Columbine yahoos but with a much lower body count.
Columbine was planned as a bombing too.
WBUR spot coverage is really great right now, btw.
You know, if the kid is killed, I think there's a good chance we'll never get a clear answer to the question of what this was all about, or what the goal was.
The TV anchor I'm listening to is just babbling at this point. "It is getting darker... something that would happen naturally at this point, but that makes this investigation that much harder... exponentially that much harder..."
Huh, Fox has live local news online.
The ABC local stream is:
http://livewire.wcvb.com/Event/117th_Running_of_Boston_Marathon
Maybe they want to update that URL.
The boat is covered by a tarp and in a backyard on a lawn, for those who were still wondering.
Reporting captured, in boat, still alive and police have opened the boat.
Maybe I'll stream every channel I can find and then start pretend I'm in a command center on twitter.
MSNBC talking heads are being morons. I'm not sure who the woman is whose voice I'm hearing, saying "Chechens have previously attacked Russia and been involved in jihad in Syria, but never before have Chechens attacked the US". What a stupid thing to be saying right now.
763: I just wrote the same thing in a friend's facebook feed and got yelled at by someone I don't know. Fuck off, person I don't know.
Um, WTF? Additional gunshots or explosions- either there's a booby trap or they're turning the guy into Swiss cheese, or they didn't actually capture him in the boat.
776 might make me puke. Yes, the US is under attack. That's precisely what's happening.
I think flash-bang grenades.
This is horrific. I hadn't realized how drawn in I was.
By "think" I mean "hope". I have no clue.
I'm not sure who reported they captured him, but the, uh, two feeds I'm watching now haven't shown anything to suggest he was captured at some point.
On a boat trailer- if you look at the google maps aerial view you can see the trailer in the back yard sans boat.
You know, after all this, I really hope that kid is okay. Let's stop the fucking tragedies.
Yeah, I admit that from all the reporting on his background and personality, I've been having trouble believing that he is/was the evil mastermind in all this, rather than having been roped into it by his brother.
If he does survive, though, the aftermath is going to be cringeworthy: Lindsay Graham is already obnoxiously declaring that he should be declared an enemy combatant and denied Miranda rights.
An interviewer just asked someone if they'd heard gunshots before and if this sounded like that. I guess I don't know what many types of weapons sound like, so I can't be too critical.
Reporting helicopters have now left. I'm guessing that means they think the guy is done.
Lindsay Graham is already obnoxiously declaring that he should be declared an enemy combatant and denied Miranda rights.
Link?
I don't think any question about how guilty this guy is plays into hoping nobody else, including him, has to die.
Link. So pathetic that officials are now using twitter to suggest shredding the Constitution.
But note: https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/325356024137658369
No lady, the goal is not to take him alive. Priority of life puts him behind bystanders and the cops. I would put money on that he wouldn't surrender, has now got the shit shot out of him, and they'll now send in EOD to make sure there's no devices. Alive? Not likely.
The telling everyone to kill their headlights thing, BTW, is so that all the cops on the scene aren't backlit and turned into a bunch of easy targets for the suspect.
Lindsey Graham is a fucking concern troll.
When did Talking Points Memo decide to turn itself into a live breaking news blog? Sure, write something but if I want breaking news I'll go to a news website or a comment thread.
That location isn't too surprising. Only about a mile from where they were talking about finding blood on Dartmouth last night.
I'll sign on to Graham's position if we can let the CEO of whatever company allowed his Texas fertilizer plant to blow up as an enemy combatant.
And HRT is just the FBI's SWAT team. Great training budget, but they often aren't as dialed in as a metro PD's SWAT because busy city SWAT teams do a lot more operations.
He's alive?
According to the Magic 8-Ball that is Twitter, "Signs point to yes."
@BostonGlobe: BREAKING NEWS: Globe photographer can hear police say, "We know you're in there. Come out on your own terms. Come out with your hands up."
NBC News: Suspect is alive and in custody. It's over.
WHAT ARE WE, CHOPPED LIVER?
Wheeee! That's a relief. Now, to try to have a relaxing weekend.
I sure hope they don't read him his Miranda rights, because that would make Lindsey Graham sad.
806: Like I have any idea where Boston area political boundaries fall.
They're actually going to give him a hat made of fruit.
806: Like I have any idea where Boston area political boundaries fall.
Indeed no one does, unless they're looking for parking.
Oh goodie, they're bringing him to the hospital a couple blocks away.
810 Like I have any idea where Boston area political boundaries fall.
They're all over the place. I can take a 30-minute-or-so walk from my apartment and pass through at least four different cities. I'm not totally clear on where any of the boundaries are.
You actually have to recognize the font on the resident parking signs to know which city you're in.
796 When did Talking Points Memo decide to turn itself into a live breaking news blog?
I actually kind of like it for that. They're pretty good at picking out only the well-sourced claims, so while they might not get the information first, they seem more reliable than most of other sources.
812: This report says they think his girlfriend lived there.
TPM says three were "taken into custody for questioning" in New Bedford, which sounds different from "arrested"? Apparently people associated with U Mass Dartmouth.
Oh, right. U. Mass Dartmouth. Apparently she's originally from RI.
All of my kids were born in that hospital. I imagine there are people having kids there tonight who are rather unhappy.
763
You know, after all this, I really hope that kid is okay. Let's stop the fucking tragedies.
Hard to see how someone facing life in isolation in a supermax could be considered okay. I think it is better all around if he dies now.
We're going to that hospital for a childbirth class on Sunday. Maybe we'll get to meet him!
But now they're saying he's going to Beth Israel.
Hard to see how someone facing life in isolation in a supermax could be considered okay.
In this case, that's a feature, not a bug.
373
... One of my goals is to get on the EOD team ...
Do you actively enjoy risking your life? Don't you have saner career paths? Like becoming a homicide detective or maybe specializing in computer crime.
Remind me why we haven't banned Shearer yet?
817, 820: Yeah, they're usually a lot more careful about sourcing and sticking to things that have been confirmed than most news sources.
Remind me why we haven't banned Shearer yet?
Same reason you gotta let Snot Boogie in the dice game.
820: I think it was Boston.com that had said they were arrested.
And he wasn't Mirandized. Sen. Graham will be very relieved.
681
The more we treat them like common criminals, the less power they have. I don't know how you would handle a manhunt for someone who committed a non-politically motivated triple homicide in a less public area, but the more we treat this case like one of those cases, the less ground we give them.
This is wrong, they aren't common criminals and there is no reason to treat them like common criminals. Which is not to say the way we do treat them is correct. And as far as what they want, what the public wants is also important and I would guess the public wants them caught.
Furthermore as gswift pointed out above many common criminals just want to get away whereas these guys are a continuing danger (as shown by their later murder of the MIT police officer).
So Blume has gotten those donuts now, right?
You don't have to Mirandize him until you interrogate him. Custodially.
But then, Mirandize the fuck out of that bastard. Because, you know, America.
834 -- They are criminals, and it's not obvious that they're anything else at all. I think the focus on 'power' is misplaced, however: people who killed 2 in a very public way, and seriously injured well over 100 are going to get this treatment. Whining about it sounds like a species of concern trolling to me.
Boo, Carmen Ortiz at the press conference!
Jeez, she's held up as someone with a political future? No a very good public speaker.
Ghu forgive me, but when I read that he was on a boat, I wondered if had been wearing flippy floppies.
Oh! Also! You don't have to Mirandize him if you have no intention of using his statements against him in court!
841: And when someone on the news feed I was watching said they heard "pop pop" I wondered if they were planning to interview Magnitude.
IIR[a certain former EOTAW blogger's book]C, when they arrested Czolgosz, a bunch of people, some of them quite prominent, stepped forward and publicly stated that he should receive a fair trial.
Is there any point in Mirandizing him if he's unconscious from gunshot wounds anyway? He might not survive -- I haven't heard whether he was taken while ambulatory or just fetched out of the boat bleeding and incapacitated.
I'm also actually not clear whether he is a US citizen. Don't know how that works, if you came here as a refugee when you were 8 years old.
He is a citizen. Was naturalized on an anniversary of 9/11. The wingers are frothing over that.
I haven't heard whether he was taken while ambulatory or just fetched out of the boat bleeding and incapacitated.
I've heard (CNN, one of the police officials, in response to a reporter's question) that it was the latter, that he was unresponsive and now in serious condition.
Also, the constitutional protection against coerced self-incrimination applies even if he's not a citizen.
846-7: I'm just happy no member of Congress is likely to react by trying to toughen the naturalization and asylum provisions in any sort of pending federal immigration legislation. Because hoo boy, that would be dumb.
Was the boat damaged? Because you might want to take care if buying a used boat in the area.
Do you actively enjoy risking your life? Don't you have saner career paths?
Someone's got to do it, and yeah, the guy who pestered his dad into buying him The Anarchist Cookbook when he was 12 just might enjoy that gig.
Anyone propose boycotting the 2014 Olympics yet?
850: I know, but being able to ask Lindsay fucking Graham with indignation whether he *really* proposes stripping American citizens of their Miranda rights has a certain extra power.
853
Someone's got to do it, and yeah, the guy who pestered his dad into buying him The Anarchist Cookbook when he was 12 just might enjoy that gig.
As I understand it the bomb squad has to disarm bombs not set them off. Which sounds like a lot less fun.
855: Not to Linsey fucking Graham and such types methinks. Jose Padilla was an American citizen.
855
850: I know, but being able to ask Lindsay fucking Graham with indignation whether he *really* proposes stripping American citizens of their Miranda rights has a certain extra power.
Well obviously the first thing to do is to strip him of citizenship. Which can be done if you find some sort of lie or error on his application.
Was the boat damaged? Because you might want to take care if buying a used boat in the area.
It's already been posted on Craigslist, but was quickly removed.
gswift, I'm so grateful you're here. JBS, not so much. But I think I've made that clear by npw. (And are we all assuming that's why Lord Castock isn't around or is that just me? I know I shouldn't start this, but I sort of want to.)
Graham probably hired a professional to fill out his application. During Reconstruction.
This is pretty weak trolling, JBS. You'd have to be a real bed-wetter to think there's not enough evidence to mount a convincing prosecution of this guy.
As I understand it the bomb squad has to disarm bombs not set them off
A lot of the job is doing trainings and classes which involve blowing shit up.
856 is funny. That's why computer hackers never work in computer security, right. The two tasks are waaaaay different.
"In order to do this trolling, I'll have to pretend to have never seen or even heard of mythbusters. Can I do? FUCK YES I CAN, I'M JAMES B. SHEARER" [ chokes on muffin briefly ] "YOU CAN DO IT JAMES YOU CAN DO IT"
gswift, I'm so grateful you're here.
WOOO! (I might be a tad drunk and doing Archer noises)
Man, what a week. Glad it's (apparently) over.
And... Lindsey Graham calling for enemy combatant status: http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/sen-lindsey-graham-r-sc-obama-should-treat
This is interesting if true. Apparently the fact that they found him right after lifting the lockdown wasn't coincidental; the guy who owned the boat went outside, saw blood on his boat cover, looked in and saw a guy, and immediately called the cops.
That might have been kind of freaky for that dude.
The ensuing shootout right outside his house was probably no picnic either.
Probably not like a good kind of picnic, no.
Plus now he presumably has to buy a new boat.
People are already talking about raising money to buy him one, which seems like, hey, maybe he has insurance.
Anyhow I have no idea if the lockdown actually helped anything but I do think not having public transportation to avail himself of probably made his life harder today.
Like, if he'd gotten on a mostly empty MBTA bus at 6 in the morning before better pictures were out, what are the chances somebody would have been like "hey, random guy on the bus at 6AM, I notice that you are bleeding, may I call the cops on you?"
863
This is pretty weak trolling, JBS. You'd have to be a real bed-wetter to think there's not enough evidence to mount a convincing prosecution of this guy.
Where have I said anything like that? See 823.
877: Does boat insurance typically cover police shootouts? I actually have no idea.
878: Yeah, I'd think it probably helped keep him in Watertown at least.
There are a bunch of kids young adults driving in circles around my neighborhood screaming. They're mostly shouting "Wooooooo!", but intermittently they're shouting "Americaaaa!", which doesn't seem entirely sense-making in context?
Does boat insurance typically cover police shootouts? I actually have no idea.
One of those questions only the truly prepared think to ask.
871 is interesting, since I heard a TV report saying it was a woman in the house who spotted blood and very sensibly called the police instead of lifting the tarp to see if someone was under it. I guess we can choose which version of the story to believe.
883: they don't have to make sense, 'cuz America!
If I were feeling more energetic maybe I would go outside and shout "Watertown Poliiiiiice!"
884: I guess drug smugglers would be the demographic most likely to know.
869: The week is only over for the Jewish people.
885: Huh. The TPM post sources its account to the Boston Police Commissioner, but without a link or anything. Hard to say at this point which story is closer to the truth.
The TV report also said the police verified someone was under the tarp using infrared imaging from helicopters flying overhead.
890: Well, yeah.
(Actually that's not how it works. The Jewish Sabbath is the seventh day of the week, not the first.)
Also the sun won't set for this Jewish person for a couple more hours.
889: even if so I bet they'd have trouble making a claim. Not at-fault police shootouts are what we need to be investigating.
I can see New Jersey from my window.
Maybe non-smugglers who own boats in places that are notorious for smuggling.
894: It was weird to wake up this morning and see you still posting new comments when I first checked the blog. Then I remembered I'm in the eastern time zone and it was pretty late but not extremely late in Alaska.
I can see New Jersey from my window.
I can see Chechnya.
900: Yeah, it was weird to be on here late at night and start to see people show up having just awoken. I do generally stay up late, but not that late.
Chris Hayes looks different when you see his full-sized head on a tv instead of a little twitter picture of it.
My informal survey work (consisting of eavesdropping on the other parents at my daughter's sporting practice) confirms that The Onion gets it right.
Best comment so far: "That poor guy, he's not going to be able to use his boat all summer."
Encouragingly, their media criticism was spot on.
Chechnya, not the same as the Czech Republic. It's their own fault for breaking up with Slovakia.
I think this guy would be genuinely surprised by the correct answer to his rhetorical question.
905: I overheard someone on campus yesterday struggling with just this confusion.
I have made the mistake of engaging someone on Facebook regarding the suspect's constitutional guarantees of due process. Some gems from my interlocutor:
He's not only a criminal, he's been officially labeled as a domestic terrorist which changes the rights that he has. He can be interrogated for an unspecified amount of time with no legal representation present. Which isn't a bad thing in this case. I just hope they let him heal completely first and then torture him so he feels everything!
And:
I think they nailed it when they called this guy a terrorist. What else would you call detonating multiple explosive devices at a gathering of people? Fireworks? Lol the problem is everyone wants freedom but doesn't want to do the dirty work it requires. If it means that the government beat this dude within an inch of his life so that they make sure he isn't part of a bigger group, I'm ok with that because ultimately it will secure my freedom. I hope they throw him in a hole and don't feed him and let him rot. Maybe if we did that instead of guarantee rights to terrorists, they'd think twice before blowing up human beings at a marathon.
908.last convinces me that I truly have lost track of the proliferation of meanings ravenously subsumed by discourse marker "lol."
856: James, current techniques involve containing and detonating small packages in place, robots, and all sorts of other fascinating gear. What's not to like?
651 649: your workplace sounds incredibly horrible to me.
One of my fellow faculty members has now posted on Facebook that he thinks police should have just killed the suspect, because it would save a lot of money.
Dare him to write it on university letterhead and send it to the media.
police should have just killed the suspect, because it would save a lot of money.let us pick another random country to invade.
912. But the right has said for years that faculty at your uni are the quintessence of liberalism. My illusions are shattered.
All the discussion of whether the police should Mirandize Tsarnaev makes me think people have a fundamental misunderstanding about the nature and function of the Miranda warnings. To wit, they seem to believe that the rights described in the warning are conferred by the warning itself—in other words, until police inform you of your right to remain silent or to consult an attorney, you don't have those rights. When in fact the warning only serves to remind the suspect of rights the suspect has always had under the Constitution, and nothing the police say or don't say can take those rights away from you. It makes me wonder whether, in the long run, the Miranda decision might have done more harm than good.
If it means that the government beat this dude within an inch of his life so that they make sure he isn't part of a bigger group, I'm ok with that because ultimately it will secure my freedom.
So courageous.
I have made the mistake of engaging someone on Facebook regarding the suspect's constitutional guarantees of due process.
Oh, lord, me too.
From someone else: Bos/ton provided a conven/ient test-run for martial law, and the lesson learned should be how so m/any folks' minds unquestioningly translate "They've asked us not to leave the ho/use" to "We can't lea/ve the house."
Oh, I know he'll never Google it, but still.
Rather than engaging anybody making that stupid, stupid line of argument (if you weren't here, you cannot possibly understand how totally fucking far from martial law it was, thanks) I made a blanket statement on facebook that I wanted people to shut up about it and then deleted any comments trying to argue with me. It was very satisfying, and also marked the final defeat of free speech in this country.
Tomorrow's right-wing meme available now.
I mostly avoided the "martial law" stuff but for some reason I just started reading one of the Paul Campos threads over at LGM. I particularly like the person who is very upset that the police let him drive away Thursday night/early Friday morning, suggesting that they should have used "the old shoot out the tires trick". If only the local police had such brave internet commenters, trained by long hours of movie watching, to advise them on how to do their job!
Paul Campos should post about law school and law school only.
First they came for the bomb-throwing, cop-shooting, carjacking murderers, but I did not speak, for I was not a bomb-throwing, cop-shooting, carjacking murderer.
924: What? You don't believe Michelle Obama is history's greatest monster?
New forensic evidence proves that Michelle Obama killed Christ.
I also like the commenters who are very picky about referring to the suspects as "alleged murderers". Yes, those guys who were throwing bombs and firing bullets at cops: could have all been a big misunderstanding!
I guess Campos can also post about Leiter's sociopathy. But that's it.
New forensic evidence proves that Michelle Obama killed Christ.
I am surrounded by crazy people at this swim meet.
Crazy and crazy-making. What if the bombers killed your kid? Well? What if they were holed up in your yarn bag? What say you to that, Mr. Civil Liberties?
Ah, I get it. I'm Facebook friends with one of these moms. I was pretty confused. I mean, it's not like I made some pro-Miranda argument before the second heat of the 50 fly.
Hey, so, older folx, how does all of this media brouhaha compare to the good old days of domestic terrorism with SLA, Weather Underground, etc.? I mean, obviously Walter Cronkite didn't lower himself to the level of Wolf Blitzer or whatever, but surely in aggregate the coverage wasn't really all THAT better?
923: Long hours of movie watching, but not, iirc, any Mythbusters.
Here the local commenters are more about going on about how those Massachusetts liberals probably wished they had their AR-15s now that they're cowering in their houses.* Because that's what we need, the JC Penney commando.
*judging from the pictures, it looks to me like the areas where people were asked to stay inside were swarming with enough personnel that staying out of the way would have independently occurred to most people as probably a damn good idea.
930: I didn't know that, but that's too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence. She did it.
934: As I remember things, there wasn't the ability to rapidly send mobile satellite trucks and news-Twinkies (or the fucking helicopters) to every location mentioned on a police scanner, so there was much less useless blather by the blow-drys showing flashing red and blue strobe lights in the background.
I dunno. I don't remember being this dismissive and disgusted by the idiocy of the news coverage and the talking heads on the weekends back then but maybe that's just advancing age.
Dr. Atrios: "I kind of feel bad for the Elvis impersonator who sent poison to the President. Most weeks, that gets you noticed."
||
I am being transferred to a different role at my company, one that I'm not super keen on. Time to look for a new job.
*When you guys have had jobs and are interviewing for new ones, do you generally take vaction days on short notice or call in sick?* I can't really say that I have doctor's appointments, because I have a bunch already.
I think that the person who would be supervising me in the new job would understand if I wanted to leave.
|>
I took vacation days on short notice, without any problems.
Wafer, please let me know who is allowed to question police strategy. Obviously I spoke out of turn, yesterday, but maybe you could point me to someone acceptable.
Probably not like a good kind of picnic, no.
What's worse than ants at your picnic?
943: drop some manhunt pro-tips bro.
Is there another way to read the tone in 656? Combined with your comments on a reasonable post by Campos.
916: they seem to believe that the rights described in the warning are conferred by the warning itself--in other words, until police inform you of your right to remain silent or to consult an attorney, you don't have those rights.
Yeah, I was thinking about that last night after I logged off. It may be that people are using "Mirandize" as just a shorthand term for the granting of the relevant constitutional rights at all. Or maybe they are erroneously conflating the two things.
Reading around the internet today, people are variously using "Mirandize" and "read him his Miranda rights" on the one hand (which suggest the making of the warning itself), and "withholding of Miranda rights", which sounds quite a bit different.
Haven't seen anyone yet speak to the (very important!) distinction MAE's pointing out in 916.
Wife's colleague just posted on FB that she was Dzhokhar's elementary school teacher.
945: sorry that I thought what you had to say was so stupid. As for Campos, I think he can take care of himself.
And I just realized that being or being related to a teacher greatly reduces your mean degrees of separation number.
Ok, that's two off the list. How about Michael O'Hare? Is he allowed?
Big emotional pre-game ceremony at Fenway. I'm totally choking up here.
sorry that I thought what you had to say was so stupid.
You think it's stupid to worry about a possible overreaction on the part of the authorities? Really?
How about we compromise? You can say anything you want, eggplant, so long as it's okay for me to say that I think what you're saying is stupid.
No, MC, I don't, which is why I didn't write any such thing.
When I woke up this morning and rushed to the television, I saw the name of "suspect #2." Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. I recognized the name. I looked at the blurry picture. Couldn't be him. Couldn't be that little boy that I taught ten years ago. I continued to stare at the TV screen. Soon I went to the bedroom and pulled out a file box...old school pictures. The first one my fingers found was from 2003-2004. And there was Dzhokhar in the front row. Eight years old? Nine years old? Next to Michael. And Eve. Beneath Sam. My class. My third and fourth graders. I brought the picture back to the TV and kept looking from the picture to the TV and back again. Soon I could not avoid the truth any longer.
The rest of the day as I followed the news, I kept the class picture close by. I just couldn't understand. They kept talking about a terrorist. A suspect at large. Armed and dangerous. I kept thinking about the boy who came to my class. Scared. Young. Not speaking any English. He smiled big because that was how he could communicate. He worked so hard. I can still picture his handwriting.
What happened? What went wrong? How could this boy have become this terrorist? Once my own kids were in bed, and I sat down to glue myself to the TV to watch the end to this nightmarish day, I sat with this picture next to me. Cheers went up throughout Boston. I stared at my picture and cried. I cried for Dzhokhar. I cried for our class. I cried for my school. I cried for all of the lives that have been lost and those that have been changed forever.
As I watched TV and scanned back and forth between TV screen and photograph, I couldn't stop crying because I don't feel relief. I don't feel relief because I just don't understand how this can happen.
That's awful, sp. The whe situation is awful. I'm very sorry.
Further to 947, that's the principal's post, but my wife is quite upset about it too.
Is he allowed?
When did "allowed" come to mean "allowed without any disagreement from others"?
You could spare so many teachers so much pain if, prior to multiple murder, you'd make a list of which of your teachers were to blame and which were not responsible.
We could have "Disagree" button, sort of the opposite of Facebook's "Like" button: you use it when you disagree, without saying anything substantive about the nature of the disagreement.
What Eggplant said originally was stupid but it has really been outdone by the follow-up.
958: Somewhere around comment 924. And does he disagree? With what? As far as I can tell he's just throwing around insults and condescension.
I said what I had to say in 667, eggplant (and mc). Now go soak your head. Honestly, if you want me to engage with you substantively, stop saying stupid things.
I've really got to start sock-puppeting.
965: I thought that was what Tweety was for.
955 put tears in my eyes, especially after I'd just been reading in an otherwise decent article these glib words:
And besides, no one is crying over the rights of the young man who is accused of killing innocent people, helping his brother set off bombs that were loaded to maim, and terrorizing Boston Thursday night and Friday.
943: drop some manhunt pro-tips bro.
Well, use a picture that's a few years old and lie about your height...
Oh.
On the Miranda thing, the WSJ's Law Blog does, in a welcome manner, spell out that Lindsay fucking Graham's call for deeming the suspect an *enemy combatant* amounts to suspending civil liberties (applicable in civilian court):
So unless there's evidence that Mr. Tsarnaev is linked to any terrorist group at war with America, "military detention is simply not lawfully available," said Mr. Wittes. And there's also the fact he's a U.S. citizen pursued on American soil. That's not necessarily a legal barrier, but a barrier under Obama administration policy, said Mr. Wittes.
While the Obama DOJ's decision to hold off on Miranda warning in the short term, under Quarles, might be troublesome in its own right, it is distinct from declaring the suspect an enemy combatant altogether. Lindsay .. Graham is an idiot.
966: I actually independently concluded that you were saying stupid shit, Eggplant. Nobody needed to tip me off.
My mistake. You understand my confusion, given the interchangeable, content-free attempts at bullying, right?
969 -- Graham v. Wittes is a little like Hitler v. Stalin in the other thread. "Linked to" is a bullshit standard (rather than "is a member of") especially from someone with a proven record of believing any fool thing that anyone with a government paycheck ever says.
Bullying? Oh you poor dear. First I won't cheerfully walk you through science you're being a pig-ignorant prat about and now I say you're stupid just because you're saying stupid shit that betrays an evident inability to parse normal English ingenuously.
Here's why you're stupid: VW saying that Paul Campos should only blog about law school and Brian Leiter is VW's way of saying that he enjoys the blog LGM except when Paul Campos blogs about things other than law school and Brian Leiter because he often gets them painfully wrong, like he has done in this case. VW does not, it turns out, have one fucking bit of power over what Paul Campos writes, and he knows that, and even if he did he wouldn't exercise it. So instead he complains about it elsewhere and junior high-level internet dipshits like you think it's a fucking free speech violation because you don't know what words mean. That is, per se, stupid. Is that contentful enough for you?
I'm actually not quite getting the reaction to Eggplant. I mean, we were talking about IRA bombings upthread: the UK had incidents of a scale comparable to the marathon bombing pretty often for decades. Reacting the way Boston did would obviously have been both completely unworkable that often, and the sort of disruption the IRA wanted.
In this case, it seems to have been isolated loons rather than anything organized, and probably a one-off event rather than part of a long-term planned campaign, so the disruptive effect of the reaction isn't a big deal. But if this sort of thing happened frequently (which it obviously could), shutting down the city for a manhunt every time just wouldn't be an option.
You know, I just read the Campos piece in question, presumably this one. It is unfortunate that he quotes a Boston Globe piece referring to "martial law" and a "siege".
Nonetheless. I'd like it if we're able to converse about broader themes and motions in our responses to crises and violence in general, without being flatly called stupid. I believe that we should be able to raise questions from time to time. Perhaps those questions will be answered, after consideration, in the negatory, but they're not stupid people making the observations.
973: If VW applied himself, he might get some power over people.
But if this sort of thing happened frequently (which it obviously could), shutting down the city for a manhunt every time just wouldn't be an option.
Obviously correct. If this same thing happened again it would be a different deal. But to process the reaction in a context totally other than the context it happened in is silly.
Why didn't anybody talk about massive civil liberties violations during the blizzard? It snows way more than it did here all the time in some places.
I'm not sure I fully understand 972, Charley.
974 -- As I said in the RBC thread, one shouldn't confuse tactical goals with strategic goals. To the extent that the IRA wanted disruption, they wanted it so that ordinary Brits would get fed up with their government's policy towards Northern Ireland, and support a change of that policy. Goal was a policy change, not a disruption per se.
The reaction of Bostonians to the disruption -- notwithstanding all the grumps -- gives the lie to any thought that disruptions of this kind are going to lead to a change in policy (as if there was even actually a relevant policy -- it seems not to have been, but instead to have been intended as a simple lashing out. To which Fuck You Too is a quintessentially Boston response).
978: I guess I didn't read Eggplant as complaining about civil liberties violations so much as about tactics. And if you assume that this sort of thing is very unlikely to happen often (which I pretty much do -- I could be wrong, but I just don't think there are all that many people willing to die to carry out a terrorist attack on a US city), the long-term effect of the police tactics don't matter much. But if it were the case that we needed to worry about similar repeated events, Eggplant's right that we'd need to come up with a different plan.
The reaction of Bostonians to the disruption -- notwithstanding all the grumps
N.B. there may well be Bostonians who were grumpy about the disruption -- I mean, I didn't like it, god knows -- but none of the people I've heard complaining about how it was a massive rights-infringing overreaction actually live in any of the affected communities. I tend to think it's a reason for that, and the reason is not that all of us are patsies or dupes.
979 -- I won't be surprised if we learn in the coming days that the older brother asked a cleric, at some point, whether killing Americans watching a marathon would be a sin. I also won't be surprised if we learn that other people who want an excuse to kill people ask the same cleric similar questions. Are those people "linked" to the older brother? Wittes and the high priests of security that he worships would say 'definitely.' And so ends Wittes' concern for the constitutional rights of the younger brother.
I think if you want to apply rules of law that are applicable to members of an enemy force, you'd better be ready to show that someone is a "member" of an "enemy force." (Enemy having already been defined by Congress in the 2001 AUMF.) Talking about "links" is security speak for ignoring inconvenient details.
In pointless personal connections to the attack news, I just found out my downstairs neighbors were watching the marathon from between the bombs, and walked away a minute or two before the first one went off. (The one who shares a first name with Buck is a runner, and was actually entered in the marathon, but his training went off-kilter somehow and he decided to sit it out.)
Obviously, they weren't hurt or anything, but they were really close to it.
981: I didn't gather that he was talking about future tactics, in a different context, at all.
In more amusingly far-fetched personal connections, I had a student post something to FB to the effect of "I know someone who'd been at that very Starbucks on the day of the marathon. Really makes the whole thing hit home."
His 655 was what made me read the rest of his comments that way.
(It is true that he wasn't talking about civil liberties violations; those arguments have been made elsewhere. And as far as it does, that's good, because people who do that sound even dumber. And, I'll even grant, his initial comments on the topic were framed as questions, rather then expert pronouncements. But getting all whiny about how VW is shutting down honest debate rubbed me the wrong way, because people talking about the tactical implications of what local police did or didn't do based on fragmentary news information really do sound dumb, and it was fairly welcome to me that VW pointed that out, in his inimitable way. Also that Campos post was fucking dumb as shit.)
987: 655 isn't even right, though. Would-be terrorists willing to sacrifice their lives now know that, I guess, setting off a bunch of bombs, hiding out, getting identified, killing a campus cop, carjacking somebody, shooting a bunch of real cops, throwing pipe bombs out the window of a car, throwing another pressure cooker bomb at cops, then escaping by running over your brother is enough to get part of a metropolitan area shut down while they look for you. How does that scale? You know what Boston was like on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday? Basically normal, if sad.
I guess people are more committed to taking this thread to 1000 than it first seemed.
you're stupid
At least you've torn off that "I'm only calling what you say stupid" fig leaf.
It is true that he wasn't talking about civil liberties violations; those arguments have been made elsewhere. And as far as it does, that's good, because people who do that sound even dumber. And, I'll even grant, his initial comments on the topic were framed as questions, rather then expert pronouncements.
How generous of you to notice that all the times you called my comments yesterday stupid you were completely misreading them. Presumably this is as close to gracious as you can be.
But getting all whiny about how VW is shutting down honest debate rubbed me the wrong way...
Well, you are a sensitive sort. He was, in fact, using all the power available to him in an internet forum trying to shut down debate, as were you until you LB came in to the conversation. How else should I interpret the "stupid stupid stupid, bro" chant? Pretending I've confused this with an infringement of my constitutional rights is, well, too stupid for a response.
I don't think there's any way to deny that VW and Sifu's "you're stupid" remarks have a chilling effect, along with sending dominance signals to the rest of the readership.
But never mind that: I'm chagrined that Boston had to go through this in the first place, and I am so proud of my sometime city.
Dominance signals! Sifu is such an alpha commenter.
993 -- Sure there's a way: who was chilled? Obviously not the object of the remarks who brought the subject back up to argue about it, nor, apparently, any who agreed with the remarks. 993 is different though in that is an intentional attempt to chill, rather than engage on any substantive level. (And so one can go, all the way down the rabbit hole, to 1,000)
Or disagreed, if one wants to pretend the the referent didn't change in mid-sentence.
He was, in fact, using all the power available to him in an internet forum trying to shut down debate
I just wanted to see that again.
I mostly agree with 996 (allowing for the referent change). I like arguments, and you can't get a good one going if you get worried about who killed whose family who's chilling who.
I don't think there's any way to deny that VW and Sifu's "you're stupid" remarks have a chilling effect
How about your "I was seriously trained not to ever do that" comments?
Surely, despite our differences, we can all agree that Adam Gopnik just sucks, though? There's something there for everyone, from the first four words ("As always in America") on, and particularly this:
The incomparable A. J. Liebling wrote once that there are three kinds of journalists: the reporter, who says what he's seen; the interpretive reporter, who says what he thinks is the meaning of what he's seen; and the expert, who says what he thinks is the meaning of what he hasn't seen. The first two--reporters and interpretive reporters--have been largely undermined by economics and incuriosity. But the third category never stops growing. We are now a nation of experts, with millions of people who know the meaning of everything that they haven't actually experienced.
There are still paradoxes and ironies, surprising heroes and unexpected goats in the new reign. . . .
(Unexpected goats? Is that from Gilgamesh or something?)
998: it is excellent. Perhaps next VW will act out Batman taping Paul Campos's mouth shut using action figures.
AnyhowI should go pee on all my stuff again. Dominance waits for no man!
992: I think you're whiny and tiresome, too!
It's not so much the unexpected goats as the interrupting cows that make modern journalism so hard to stomach.
AnyhowI should go pee on all my stuff again.
Dude, make sure you check whose iPad is in the pile this time, mmkay?
bat signal in the quizzes thread. This is k-sky.
I was just thinking -- if you guys determine household dominance by who peed on stuff last, you're both looking a a dramatic drop in the hierarchy in the near future.
If you thought I was trying to shut you up, eggplant, I apologize. I was being glib in 656 and certainly didn't mean to hurt your feelings. If I did hurt your feelings, which appears to have been the case, I apologize for that was as well. Having said all of that, I thought what you were saying was pretty dumb, yes. I found it especially stupid, I suppose, because, as I explained in 667, I shared and still share what I assumed to be some of your deeper misgivings (though now I've lost track of your argument, it seems, and I'm afraid I can't be bothered to try to piece it together). Nevertheless, it really didn't occur to me that your feelings would be hurt by what I said in 656, as I thought it was recognizably a joke made in good fun, nor that you wouldn't read my 667 as an effort to engage with you somewhat substantively. Oh well.
As for the rest of it, you seem to have stayed mad overnight and come back today looking for a fight. And honestly, I stand by telling you to go soak your head. Paul Campos is on the side of the angels when it comes to a few very important issues. Otherwise, I think he's sloppy and loud. Turning to you, I don't think I've ever given a moment's thought to you one way or the other before this. Now I'll be more careful not to offend you and will do my best to steer clear of you in threads, as I do with some people here.
Finally, I can think of only a couple of conversations here that I've tried to stop. This wasn't one of them.
990: It struck me as significant that the town wasn't on lockdown just for the search, but during a violent manhunt. No one thinks it's odd to ask an area (a college dorm, e.g.) to shelter in place in the middle of a chase for a violent armed guy; this one just went on a bit longer. I can't see it setting much of a precedent, tbh.
Personally, I was hoping the lockdown would continue overnight and some law enforcement would try to stay in someone's home so that we could get a 3rd amendment case into the system.
955 - Wow, SP, I don't know what to say.
ANIMAL NOISE THAT SOUNDS LIKE A HUMAN SCREAMING, KIND OF
You want overwrought? This is how you do overwrought. Tanks, tanks I say!
So, the guy's still unconscious in the hospital, right? Surely the decisions about when to read him his rights and/or interrogate him will only have to really be made once he wakes up.
1015: Right? This is what I have been wondering. (Or maybe they are sitting in his room asking him questions while he is wacked out on drugs? But surely the doctors would shut that down?)
1001: How about your "I was seriously trained not to ever do that" comments?
I tried my damnedest to make clear that it wasn't necessarily the case that everyone was trained that way. I thought I said that at least once at the time. I thought I'd left open that other people might not feel the same way.
955 was secondhand via FB (I tried to block quote it all but couldn't do multiple paragraphs) but it turns out we have several second degree connections to him. The kid that used to live next door knows him. Another kid who babysat for us was in his class. And it's not like all of these were long ago, he graduated two years ago. I'm guessing anyone who's lived in the city for a few years has some indirect connection. There's a lot of talk blaming the older brother, thinking he forced the younger into this. Who knows.
But when there are senators who say he should be tortured, in the absence of even their usual BS ticking time bomb scenario, well fuck your bloodthirsty need for vengeance.
Yeah, this has to be really particularly painful and sucky for all the Rindge kids who are still there or still living at home who know him.
SP sorry for your friend. I've run myself horse on twitter and Slate insisting that we don't know what happened or what his side of the story is or who did exactly what. For all we know he may not have known what was in the bag, or he may have been acting under duress. Everything that happened after seems consistent w/ his being panic and trapped. I'm kind of amazed and horrified at how willing and *desirous* the media and most regular folks online seem to be to embrace the narrative that he was 100% cold blooded deliberate killer/terrorist/Islamic terrorist. The absolute uniform unity of the people who knew the younger brother in citing him as actually kind and gentle combiend with the fact that once the older brother was dead he basically ran away and got into a boat and almost bled to death makes me even more unwilling to embrace a narrative without trial and due process. I've been amazed at how antagonistic people are to that unwillingness. Does no one watch movies or TV shows? Read books? Why is the concept of "seems to be very obviously totally guilty with full intent but actually, upon closer and less hurried examination, is actually less guilty/intentional than we thought" so very foreign to people? What's the rush in forming a narrative?
I mean, I don't begrudge the need of the cops and the FBI and prosecution to form working narratives and to try to sell us on them. I don't even think it's not reasonable for us to comply with their requests that are based on these narratives on a limited basis for public safety. I just think it's horrible to accept them wholesale without hearing from the other side at all.
Not reading him his Miranda rights makes perfect sense to me b/c of the credible threat that there were more IEDs around and he might know where they were. Not readig them to him before they interrogate him after he recovers seems less good. As far as I can tell Watertown Police, BPD, FBI actually did a great job of trying/succeeding to capture him alive and I don't blame them at all. Their efforts were, to me, part of the sense of relief and pride. But I'm kind of amazed at how so many other people seem angry he's alive or that we might hear his story or that we are considering the possibility he might not be 100% guilty.
I have a friend who teaches pretty much the toughest classes in the city -- the EBD rooms in the poorest junior highs and high schools. He's had the 955 experience happen a number of times with more prosaic killings from the Drug War. (Former students as both victims and perpetrators.) Somehow, he still gets up every day and goes in to work brimming with exciting ideas for how to make his classes better. He's working on a couple of big projects for life skills classes right now, and needs some money to make them happen. He's already had some amazing successes, and one of my other friends who has a lot of big business and other applicable connections is now signed on to help him out. I'll put the link to his project on my FB, if anyone is interested in looking at it and kicking in a few bucks. I know it doesn't do much for Beantown or whatever, but it does put the lie to all of that "failing schools/lazy teachers" bullshit.
1022: one of the reasons when I was less broke DonorsChoose was one of my favorite impulse shopping sites.
"Dominance signals!" Here? It is to laugh.
Carful, biohazard, or I'll pee on you.
The whole dominance thing is just begging for some old-school ASCII artwork.
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I had to zoom out before it was clearly recognizable, but it's very clear then.
Yeah, I'm not an ASCII artist, just a quick cut-and-paster. But hey, it's a 1000+ thread, it should have everything.
1021: I'm sympathetic to your attitude, but the specific thing about how he might not have been as guilty as he seemed is maybe a little hard to swallow. He went to school after the bombing, so he wasn't around his brother at all times. If he genuinely hadn't known what was going on beforehand, that was plenty of time for him to call the police and turn his brother in. He doesn't seem likely to have been the instigator, but I can't imagine any narrative consistent with the facts we know where he doesn't bear a heavy share of the guilt for the actual acts.
1031: Huh. I would have thought anything you could Google up wouldn't look like it was formatted correctly in Unfogged's font choice. Did you have to change the number of underscores or anything?
We'll see, I suppose, if he has a story. His failure to surrender when his brother was captured (alive, apparently) doesn't immediately suggest that he has much of one.
Meantime, I suppose it's plenty clear that Boston has given the terrorists just what they wanted.
Nope, I wasn't going to post if it didn't work, but I think it transferred over pretty much exactly as the artist intended.
And further to 1032, it seems enormously improbable to me that he would not be convicted in court, so the Republican freakout about how we need to declare him an enemy combatant just seems either like a juvenile fear that he's a comic-book supervillain, or a move toward setting precedents for future cases. In any case, I hope Obama doesn't give in.
1032: Right. He may have had bad 'moral luck', and even if he was heavily intimidated by his brother (authority-wise or physically), or was emotionally messed up or whatever, we can recognize that that's a shitty place to be and hope not to ever be there, but still. If factually guilty (and it seems very unlikely that anything other than that is the case), morally guilty. Sorry, you should refuse to murder others even if your own life is at stake.
1021: what if he didn't think he could prove the duress or lack of knowledge?
1037: what if you think (probably incorrectly) that someone else's life is at stake? the nieces and nephews you apparently spent a lot of time babysitting?
Look, I have no problem with how the govt. is behaving. I'm actually a kinda proud of them. And if I had to wager my life on a single narrative of what happened, I'd guess that he's 100% guilty though not the instigator. I just don't understand how people are so unwilling to consider other possibilities and check for other evidence now that he's in custody and we can sleep soundly and all that jazz. But there seems to me to be a lot of room between being a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist and enthusiastically accepting the media/official narrative as the Gospel truth which we have somehow lost sight of.
I have been sort of fascinated by his trajectory, in that it seems to so closely mirror that of "happy go lucky, regular kid has life unexpectedly turned completely upside-down by tragedy" except that in this case the turning around is completely self-inflicted. Like, he went back to UMass Dartmouth to stay in his dorm and smoke pot with his friends! He must have been so upset and terrified at the turn things took except... yeah, all his intended doing. Fascinating and strange.
It really is Internet mean girls here. And my plane ticket is unrefundable. Fuck.
The other possibilities just seem very unlikely (IAN anything relevant, just an opinion on the internet). But absolutely, a proper investigation and trial should be carried out, so comity, I guess.
1033: Perhaps underscore, dollar sign and paragraph are chosen because the widths are expected to stay pretty close even in non-monospaced fonts? A good tip for your next ASCII (or Unicode) pee.
1040: It's typically a much more congenial crowd in person than you would think from certain threads. You'll be fine.
1038 But there seems to me to be a lot of room between being a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist and enthusiastically accepting the media/official narrative as the Gospel truth which we have somehow lost sight of.
There are a lot of conceivable stories but the sum probability of all of them seems to me to be pretty small. In any case, he's alive and they can question him, so if such a story is true hopefully we'll learn about it. I guess I don't see any reason not to think, for now, that the thing that seems overwhelmingly likely to be true is true. No reason that opinion can't be revised if new facts come to light.
I just read these:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/20/us/details-of-tsarnaev-brothers-boston-suspects-emerge.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0&ref=todayspaper
http://nation.time.com/2013/04/20/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-boston-bombing-suspects/
Part of the reason getting the exact nature of the relationship understood is important to me is b/c there are a lot of recently naturalized young male Muslim refugees who grew up here and are pretty damn Americanized. So the narrative that they were both equally culpable, equally radicalized, equally intentional, despite their very different apparent characters and trajectories, is extremely attractive to those who are eager put a halt on naturalization and to profile Muslim boys regardless of other factors. So perhaps my intellectual resistance to this narrative is motivated by that reaction (and thus also not very objective) but it seems like some resistance should be offered since it's both so dominant and so potentially damaging.
At this point, if I had to bet my life or my savings on it, personally I'd say they are both totally guilty and culpable, but the younger one was not radicalized. But I feel like it's important to demand that other possibilities be checked out, regardless.
So the narrative that they were both equally culpable, equally radicalized, equally intentional
I mean, there's a lot of room between thinking this and thinking that the younger kid made unfortunate decisions but is nonetheless plenty culpable enough for, as they say, government work.
Like, I could definitely imagine that the younger kid never would have done it without the influence of his older brother, that he did it for his approval, that the older brother comvinced him of things that aren't true, that his older brother had undue influence on him. Sure! But it is much harder for me to imagine that he wasn't completely aware of what they were doing, and bought into it enough to carry it through to the best of his ability.
Yeah. . .my friend is reminding me that I am an argumentative person who compulsively imagines an alternative explanation or argument for almost anything, so who knows.
But in so many places people are already using this to insist we cannot let in any Muslim male immigrants, even children. I taught a couple of Afghan refugee brothers once, and they were totally sweet and totally Americanized. The trouble they got in was regular old American boy trouble, not terrorist trouble or even foreigners trouble. I keep cringing thinking how, if they got in trouble and there was some question of how guilty they were, their unwillingness not to renounce Islam or their avoidance of alcohol and cigarettes would make things worse for them.
Way to harsh everybody's buzz, dude.
"Gunfire erupted at an annual U.S. marijuana celebration, injuring two people and scattering a crowd of thousands after they had just marked the first 4/20 counterculture holiday since Colorado legalized marijuana."
So the narrative that they were both equally culpable, equally radicalized, equally intentional, despite their very different apparent characters and trajectories, is extremely attractive to those who are eager put a halt on naturalization and to profile Muslim boys regardless of other factors.
I agree with you about this. Indeed, while this very drama was playing out I was hosting a group of Fulbright scholars in my home, and in the back of my mind thinking that in the years I have been doing this, the groups have gotten more and more female -- maybe because the US government is increasingly afraid of young men.
At the same time, in this specific case, my thoughts pretty much 1045 and 1048.
1040: What teo said.
And I don't think you said anything "stupid." It is entirely fair to ask, "Is this an overreaction?" And the answer may be: "No." But it's a valid question, and a question that should be asked, imo.
The younger Mr. Tsarnaev sure looks a lot like Neil Gaiman.
He does, doesn't he. That picture was nagging at me for some reason, and it might have been because it looked like Gaiman.
916, 946--Time magazine, in that linked article, also seems confused about Miranda rights, as if reading them were a performative utterance:
"U.S. officials said an elite interrogation team would question the Massachusetts college student without reading him his Miranda rights, something that is allowed on a limited basis when the public may be in immediate danger, such as instances in which bombs are planted and ready to go off.
The American Civil Liberties Union expressed concern about that possibility. Executive Director Anthony Romero said the legal exception applies only when there is a continued threat to public safety and is "not an open-ended exception" to the Miranda rule, which guarantees the right to remain silent and the right to an attorney."
Thanks MC, but I'm not worried that what I said was stupid. Tweety and Wafer are assholes, and they are going to do their asshole thing, like they've done to others. What hurt was that it felt as if not only did no one but parsimon, a previous target of theirs, object to this but then they decided to join in. I'll have to reread this thread later to see if I'm overreacting.
1040
It really is Internet mean girls here. And my plane ticket is unrefundable. Fuck.
You seem to be a bit of a delicate flower. Surely you have noticed that people here can be critical at times. And when things like the Boston bombing happen there is a certain rally round the flag effect which makes people less receptive to criticism of the government than they might normally be.
As for stifling debate having the vapors whenever one of your ideas receives a less than rapturous reception also serves to stifle debate.
981
978: I guess I didn't read Eggplant as complaining about civil liberties violations so much as about tactics. And if you assume that this sort of thing is very unlikely to happen often (which I pretty much do -- I could be wrong, but I just don't think there are all that many people willing to die to carry out a terrorist attack on a US city), the long-term effect of the police tactics don't matter much. But if it were the case that we needed to worry about similar repeated events, Eggplant's right that we'd need to come up with a different plan.
Actually there are plenty of people willing to die to carry out a terrorist attack in the US. Fortunately most of them are not in the US and are unable to do so. But we need to be careful about who we let in.
As for similar events, this sort of thing would have to be a lot more common (like several orders of magnitude) before we would have to change plans. And I think nailing the guys quickly has a demoralizing effect on potential emulators.
1046
Part of the reason getting the exact nature of the relationship understood is important to me is b/c there are a lot of recently naturalized young male Muslim refugees who grew up here and are pretty damn Americanized. So the narrative that they were both equally culpable, equally radicalized, equally intentional, despite their very different apparent characters and trajectories, is extremely attractive to those who are eager put a halt on naturalization and to profile Muslim boys regardless of other factors. So perhaps my intellectual resistance to this narrative is motivated by that reaction (and thus also not very objective) but it seems like some resistance should be offered since it's both so dominant and so potentially damaging.
I think this explains the hostile reaction. People know a certain variety of "bleeding heart" liberal is reluctant to believe anyone is guilty of anything and is prone to coming up with dubious exculpatory theories and at a certain point they just tune them out.
If by people you mean the certain variety of "icy heart" conservative who is all too happy to turn a blind eye to stories like these and be part of mobs like the ones ready to lynch these guys, perhaps they should consider why and how they make regular hearts bleed before they get all hostile.
1064 is missing this link:
http://www.propublica.org/article/criminal-injustice-the-best-reporting-on-wrongful-convictions
I came back to say that if the video surveillance is as the governor says it was described to him (kind of amazed he hadn't actually seen it yet) I'll be much happier accepting that the younger brother was 100% guilty in mind as well as action. Thank goodness it will be shown at trial and examined by a defense team. http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mass-governor-says-he-has-no-idea-what-motivated-boston-marathon-bombers/2013/04/21/bb41c8ce-aa82-11e2-9493-2ff3bf26c4b4_story.html
Apparently the younger brother tried to kill himself, an d failed, only managing to shoot his tongue off, well before he was found. I know it's actually surprisingly common for people to shoot themselves in the head and not die, but it seems weird that he wouldn't try again since having your tongue shot off seems like it would be much more motivating than any cocktail of fear or despair or regret. I have no idea what to make of that, it just strikes me as amazing.
1066: and all that suggests "fugue state" to me after the bombings. There isn't lots of rational plotting and planning in evidence. Dorner did it better until his luck ran out.
Of course he should be tried. I know DOJ has some recent massive fuck ups, but what, they don't think they can convict this guy? A second year law student could get a conviction. I don't much care if they interrogate him about bombs still planted in the area before Mirandizing him, as long as they don't try to get the things he says admitted into evidence (and why would they even have to?). And as long as they give him a lawyer and let him shut up if he asks for one.
I believe this is close to the sentiment that Sifu was trying to get across, and appears to be the feeling of many of my Boston friends.
SCREW YOU, HALFORD
1070 the post linked is excellent. Thanks.
Yes, indeed. 1070 was good. I've already put it on FB. Thanks.
Yes, that post really speaks to me.
Although this:
On Friday, the city of Boston was waiting. Crouching, like a tiger in tall grass. We were two million souls focused on a single target: a crazed and wounded boy, desperate and dangerous, hiding somewhere in Watertown, gone to ground. To flush him out, the city held still.
got a little too close to "Chuck Norris doesn't sleep. He waits." Good post generally, but that bit made me snicker.
that bit made me snicker
You're not the only one.
1070 is good -- thanks. I didn't think Sifu was alone here in feeling that way about the city's responses.
It makes me think a great deal about how other cities would deal with a similar situation. Would everyone really shelter in place in, say, Baltimore? I dunno. I think so, but am unsure.
Far from everyone stayed in. Living on a fairly major roadway, I saw a lot of civilian cars going by, especially around afternoon rush hour. Definitely much lighter than a typical day, but it was on the order of 10-15 cars per minute (I counted at one point out of curiosity.)
Now, Watertown was probably a different story.
Now BoingBoing has jumped on the "OMG MARTIAL LAW" bandwagon, joining the fucking New Yorker. Jesus fucking christ.
I left my house, wandered around, took pictures of police and FBI vehicles and personnel, walked past a barber shop (twenty feet from the police line) that was open and doing a brisk business. Then I went to 7/11 and bought some shit, because that was open, too. Then I walked past the construction site, where they had just gone ahead and worked a full day because they were there anyhow so why not. Then I crossed the street in front of a cab that was currently transporting a passenger someplace for money. All of this two blocks from the house of the bombers where they were trying to determine if there were any active threats. HOLY CRAP WHAT FOUL DYSTOPIA IS THIS HOW COULD I HAVE BEEN SO BLIND?!
It's like it never occured to a fucking soul to ask anybody from Boston what happened.
I say what that blog post says except with less mockably soaring language and way more swears.
I was wondering whether all those photos of an absolutely deserted greater Boston were really accurate. It doesn't take much to ask yourself how representative that is.
I'm a little surprised about the cab: reporting had been that cab service was "suspended".
'course, at the time I was a little worried about people who might absolutely have to get somewhere, like for medical purposes.
1081: they asked businesses in Boston to close, so there wasn't really much of a commute. Traffic was generally very light -- maybe Sunday morning levels?
Really it was very much like a snow day. (At least, around here. I get the sense that some parts of the city -- JP, for instance -- were pretty normal, except that people who worked downtown had the day off.)
They asked cabs to suspend service briefly, for like a couple of hours or something, I think? It was never very clear if that actually happened.
Hospitals stayed open, of course.
I assume it lasted as long as it did because, once it had lasted all morning, there wasn't much point to rescinding it until after the evening commute -- it would have caused more problems than it solved. The tell on that, to my mind, is that they were all set to rescind it at 5:30PM (it ended up taking a little longer to actually have the press conference, but anyhow).
Reading backwards for the first time a day or so later,I don't think that anyone was particularly trying to chill debate and I strongly think calling something "stupid" here shouldn't be considered a species of hazing. That said, I don't think Eggplant's comments (which, to be clear, I mostly disagree with) were even remotely far out there on the stupid spectrum, or stupid at all. I guess there's no pointing leaving this comment but I've written it out anyway so, in conclusion, fuck everyone and everything.
I get the sense that some parts of the city -- JP, for instance -- were pretty normal
Yeah, I was wondering about that area -- would everybody there really hunker down? Seemed unlikely. Thanks for reporting.
They shut down Big Bear, not that much smaller than Watertown, for Dorner, and we didn't hear anyone freaking out about civil liberties being taken away. Plus the Watertown PD took one of their guys alive and avoided shooting at random women in pick up trucks for no reason.
Comity with 1084. I thought eggplant's comments were pretty stupid only in the context of bloggers talking about sieges and martial law. But I also thought, as I've said repeatedly, that there was something worth discussing about the reaction in Boston. I then found myself caught off guard the following day, when it turned out that eggplant was both pissed and petulant about what seemed like a relatively innocuous comment on my part. Even still, I remain sorry that I offended her or him.
I know I already said it, but they shut down Boston for a blizzard this winter, and that's just fun fluffy stuff kids like to play in.
1086: sounds like maybe they would have gotten the other guy alive, too, if his brother hadn't run over him.
I think police should have to get permission from a judge in order to shoot random women in pickup trucks. There should be a form stating the sampling frame, the number to be shot, the type of weapon & ammo, and the randomization method
Nothing involved with the manhunt was creeping fascism, but this is. Of course, Lindsay Graham has been a creeping fascist for quite some time.
I think it's probably fair to say that Lindsay Graham is a fascist creep. Actually, the really annoying thing is that he probably isn't -- or at least isn't compared to other members of the GOP's Senate caucus -- but he has to play one on tv so that he doesn't lose to a far-right challenger in the next election.
Boy he has been going full fuckwit in response to this, that's for sure.
1067: Wow, fugue state so does not mean what I thought it meant. I always thought it meant a state of really clear focus and calm, a sort of intellectual version of the Athletic zone, something really desirable. Shit, I've probably confused a lot of people over the years by misusing it.
1083 -- my impression from my Boston/Cambridge/Somerville Friends was that there was exactly enough "please stay inside" to let anyone who *wanted* to stay home stay home without fear of employer or educational reprieval and not enough to force anyone to stay inside who really needed/wanted to go out, except in Watertown proper and near the Norfolk Street apt.
On the other hand an Iranian woman I was with on Friday was stressed out about her extremely pregnant cousin-in-law --- and the pregnant woman's extreme anxiety about letting the father (cousin) go outside to get food for (perhaps irrational) fear he'd get beaten up. It seemed like the kind of anxiety that was just plausible enough that there's no way to effectively reassure someone with it.
I don't think anybody was forced to stay inside near Norfolk St. A couple people inside the evacuation area stayed home rather than evacuate; I assume they could have left if they wanted, but would have had trouble getting back home.
You're probably thinking of flow state.
1093: 1067 was me, but I see now that my iThing had amnesia.
I don't know if he fit the diagnostic criteria perfectly but I'd bet anything he wasn't thinking at all clearly, all his stress hormones must have been dialed up to eleven.
It's a bit strange, they didn't seem to have any well thought out plans to either suicide or get away.
Yeah, R H-C has it right. Csíkszentmihályi detailed "Flow" though it's been described by many people before. You know when you're in that state and most certainly know when you get yanked out of it.
I left the house once and went to the supermarket, in the early afternoon when it was pretty clear that things were quite localized far from where I live. I also had a court date cancelled -- the court employees were there, but no one else could get there because public transit was shut down. And I know a lot of people who didn't dare leave their houses because that's how they interpreted the official warnings. It was sort of like a snow day, and viewed in that light we should ask whether the shut down was worth it. And yeah, probably everyone was a certain mix of scared and "whatever it takes," that we would have chosen a similar course of action in a perfect delibarative democracy. But there's a space between "forced" and "voluntary" in situations like these.
Would everyone really shelter in place in, say, Baltimore?
I say yes, but don't take it from me, check the vacants and see if anyone's moved.
I don't think that anyone was particularly trying to chill debate
In hindsight this was the wrong way to frame it. Since that neurobiology argument Tweety has been making it known that nothing I say is worth responding to, and Wafer decided to join in.
1087: How noble of you to remain sorry despite my petulance. Maybe writing another non-apology apology will make you feel better, only this time you should probably restrain yourself from expressing sentiments like "you're nothing to me". It gives the game away.
Wafer decided to join in.
You're flat wrong. I don't think I even read the neurobiology thread (I usually don't read those threads and certainly don't pay attention when I do). And I promise on a stack of bibles and grandparents' graves that I had no clue that there was some ill will between you and Beefo Meaty.
Honestly, you may want to consider the possibility that, because of your preexisting beef with someone else, you completely misread my original comment. I'm still sorry I hurt your feelings (though I'm also more irritated than I was by your overreaction and your subsequent grudge-holding and name-calling), but really, it appears that the reason you were so angry doesn't have much to do with me.
As for the other people who decided to hop on eggplant's bandwagon, fuck you very much.
1099: also, I didn't say "you're nothing to me." What I said is that before this thread I didn't pay particular attention to you one way or the other. And that's what I meant. I also meant that I was (and am) sorry that I hurt your feelings. I'd appreciate it if perhaps you'd consider that you misread my original comment, placed it in the wrong context (your fight with Beefo Meaty), and have, consequently, been misreading my comments since then. Or you can keep calling me an asshole over and over again.
As for the other people who decided to hop on eggplant's bandwagon, fuck you very much.
This is probably the point in the bickerfest where it makes a certain amount of sense to start narrowing, rather than broadening, the scope of participants in the upsetness.
I'm figuring that the 'fuck you very much' wasn't aimed at me -- we get along just fine, I don't think I said anything that you'd have been unhappy with in the thread, so on and so forth, so I'm not actually taking offense here. But given that I had expressed the opinion that Eggplant was taking undeserved heat because he had made a reasonable point -- one that you could disagree with, but not at all ridiculous -- the bit of your post I quoted did leave me checking back to figure out if I'd pissed you off somehow. So, again, no personal offense taken, but "fuck you very much" to an ill-defined group that people might take more broadly than you meant it is probably poor phrasing if you want to keep your interpersonal conflicts tightly focused.
This is probably the point in the bickerfest where it makes a certain amount of sense to start narrowing, rather than broadening, the scope of participants in the upsetness.
We're never going to get to 2000 with that attitude.
Amazing thing about Senator "Iron Pants" Graham is that in all his demands for brutality he continues to use the word "suspect" instead of "bomber" or "murderer" or something that would fit the rest of the trials-are-pointless theme.
I was referring to parsimon, LB, though I wasn't particularly thrilled with Mary Catherine's decision to join the fray without, it seemed to me, reading the original comments.
Having gotten into stupid fights with PGD about nothing through the years, having then offended teo a few months back, and having finally gotten under Halford's skin (which I didn't think was even possible) relatively recently, I've been wary of conflict here lately. Given that, I was more bummed out by this thread than I should have been and especially irritated that parsimon decided to accuse of me of trying to silence people. Still and all, you're right that I should have been specific: fuck you, parsimon.
I've found that attacking people savagely and then immediately upon conclusion of the substantive portion of the disagreement finding an excuse to yell "Comity!" either mends fences or convinces people I'm too weird to bother arguing with over an extended period of time. I offer this tactic to you for what it's worth.
you're right that I should have been specific
I thought your meaning was pretty clear already, TBH.
1106: I'm pretty comfortable with my longstanding argument with PGD* about this and that subject and otherwise steering clear of most** fights here. Now that we barely talk politics -- the subject about which I'm likely to argue -- there's not much for me to fight about. Which is why the recent squabbles have left me feeling crappy, and why this latest non-fight caught me completely off guard.
* Who I'm 100% certain is a lovely person in the flesh, but whose style of commenting makes me nutty, a state of affairs that, as I've said before, is my problem and not his.
** I've made exceptions in the past when I've thought that people were being targeted by especially noxious trolls***. I probably should have stayed silent even then.
*** Yes, I know, text, I'm the biggest troll of all.
It is possible to simultaneously love all of your fellow commenters and be convinced that they are fucking annoying idiots who are so fucking annoying! Dialectically, it is the very combination of love and annoying idiocy that allows this place to function. Also, confidential to VW: it's extremely easy to get under my skin -- I am an asshole. But I love you all. Bro hugs everyone, and also fuck you!
1107: me too. But LB's point is nevertheless well taken.
Maybe we should all have a thread where we explicitly list the other commenters we hate! And then sort by income.
I've got strong feelings about clarity in communication when you're being hostile. I love elliptical kidding around -- nothing's more fun than idiotic improvised code speech. When there's actual bad feeling going on, though, any ambiguity invites people who really weren't targeted to guess wrong and feel unnecessarily attacked, even if the implication should have been clear enough to keep them from going astray.
Also, confidential to VW: it's extremely easy to get under my skin -- I am an asshole. But I love you all. Bro hugs everyone, and also fuck you!
See, that's the sort of commenter I like.
nothing's more fun than idiotic improvised code speech
Puppies. Puppies are more fun.
1113 is why, despite thinking my original meaning was pretty clear, I agree that your point in 1102 was well taken. I'll be happy to tell parsimon* to fuck off again, if you'd like.
* Who I also am willing to bet is a wonderful human being in the flesh.
1116: The whole pet metaphor has kept me amused for weeks and weeks.
Presumably, you're every bit as pissed off at essear for his sniping and for the clown posse coming in to make fun of the very idea of bullying in this forum. Or is it just when people weren't on your side?
Consider me skeptical that you and Jet Pack completely independently decided to start calling me stupid. In any case, your bro comment was still an obnoxious attempt at marginalization, and your subsequent follow ups haven't exactly been an improvement.
In the interest of getting this thread to two thousand I will confess to being occasionally mystified that people react to my calling things they say stupid like I've just thrown a bucket of acid in their face. Like, I reacted intemperately in this thread because I was irritated (and did the same in the other thread, for the same reason), but I'm fairly sure I didn't releash unutterable rhetorical hell, certainly not by the standards of what I'm capable of. I guess I'm just so dominant that people crumble in fear at my very glance.
Don't you think maybe you should call things stupid less often, then?
Oy. Once again, not the police here, but Eggplant? While I agree that your original comments got an unnecessarily negative reaction, might there be a point at which dropping it was the best idea all around?
Everyone's more abrasive online, most of the people who are arguing here haven't ever actually met, it's usually best advised to avoid investing real feelings in internet arguments, platitude, platitude, bromide, soothing drivel generally. If you see what I mean.
1120: Well, there's something to be said for calibrating your rhetoric to the reactions you get, rather than to how it sounds to you. I've spent the last thirty years trying to keep a tight lid on how I talk to people, given their unfortunate tendency to start weeping and fleeing when I don't. And while I think the human race is unfortunately oversensitive, and I'd prefer to associate with some thicker skinned species (wolverines? possibly) at some point you deal with the conspecifics you've got.
The whole issue here is that Sifu doesn't realize people get offended by being called stupid?
I've been mostly trying to stay out of flame wars here (and I don't really comment anywhere else nowadays), but when I have indulged, it always seems obvious that provocations are rampant on both sides. Some of these other fights that I have observed, dogless, just mystify me. I mean, obviously, like, the bird-dinosaur one was just totally silly, right? Right? But even some of the more substantive ones have left me very confused about exactly what rhetorical position was the provocative one.
Someone should write a book about people someday; they're peculiar.
-Dashiell Hammett
at some point you deal with the conspecifics you've got
Stupid genetic engineers.
Don't dish it out, if you're not prepared to take it, Eggshell.
exactly what rhetorical position was the provocative one.
WHY'NT YOU COME UP AND SEE ME SOMETIME AND I'LL EXPLAIN IT TO YOU. REAL SLOW.
It's actually not. I'm perfectly aware that calling something stupid is not a way initiate a reasoned debate on a topic. But I apparently have the ability to send people into multi-day spirals of self-pitying lashing out by saying something is stupid, which feels a little bit like I'm whatserface on the X-Men who can kill with a touch. So, in fact, I almost never say anythin. (If you recall (of course you don't, because who cares) in the discussion of the role of the hippocampus I came back, because I felt bad about snapping, and tried to explain why I was frustrated. Then I tried to explain the research to the best of my understanding. Then, when things continued in a vein that seemed like it was wasting my time, I stopped engaging. Good call, Sifu!) But it's a little weird!
1119: I'll say again that I had no idea you and Beefo Meaty had argued in the past. I'll also say again that I didn't mean to hurt your feelings and that I'm sorry that I did.
Beyond that, if in the future you're pissed at me, if you think I've tried to silence you, or if you suspect that I'm conspiring against you, please just tell me straight out. I'm more than happy to acknowledge when I've been an asshole online (or in person!), more than happy to apologize, and more than happy to reassure people that I'm not likable enough to be invited to join any conspiracies.
1123: no no, I get you. That's the right strategy! Intemperance is the wrong strategy! But doesn't it seem weird sometimes, like actually you can shoot lasers out of your eyes and are burning people's faces off when you just mean to be explaining that they are not doing a good job of thinking things through?
Also, 1129 to 1124.
I had no idea you and Beefo Meaty had argued in the past.
See, this might be the same thing happening with me, because I'm like "it hardly got to the level of an argument."
But doesn't it seem weird sometimes, like actually you can shoot lasers out of your eyes and are burning people's faces off when you just mean to be explaining that they are not doing a good job of thinking things through?
You have no idea how powerfully I sympathize with that sentiment. What really throws me is when I get the comments on how savagely forceful I'm being when I thought I'd already dialed it way, way, way back.
|?
Not properly on-topic at this point, but Unfogged bent my consumption of Boston news two ways last week: I did plenty of my keeping up here, and all tweets of a certain length twisted themselves into verse.
One ABC News put on-screen on Friday night worked wildly well:
"The hunt is over.
The search is done.
The terror is over.
And justice has won."
(Burma Shave!)
|>
I think the thing is, bro, that people are put off by the fact that we hunt in a pair. But we can't help it that we're like bloggy velociraptors, can we? Anyway, I guess we'd better chill. Want a Zima?
Seriously broseph maybe it did more harm than good that they taught us the secret Dim Mak Rhetorical Death Touch between rounds of boot-n-rally at Delta Chi.
Presumably, you're every bit as pissed off at essear for his sniping
Do I sometimes snipe at people here? Yeah, I do. Sorry about that. It can be entertaining, but I probably shouldn't do it.
FWIW, Eggplant, I've had a generally positive impression of you (as I have of all but a handful of regular commenters here), and never noticed myself getting annoyed with anything you did until, I guess, this thread. I did think your comments in the neurobiology thread were in a vein that can make me grumpy-- I perceived them as something like "I don't want to take the time to learn about this topic, so I'm going to declare that it's bullshit until someone else has the patience to explain it to me", which might or might not be fair but I don't think was a reading wholly out of line with what you wrote. But, that kind of mild grumpiness happens all the time here; it might sometimes induce me to "snipe", but I think people usually shrug that off? And in this thread I was more annoyed by other people elsewhere who were making more strained and disingenuous arguments that I thought your comments went in roughly the same direction as. Anyway, I think generally here people are used to a little bit of harshness, which isn't especially aimed to hurt, and to me some of the victimized reactions seem as capable of being egregiously conversation-wrecking as attacks. YMMV.
But I apparently have the ability to send people into multi-day spirals of self-pitying lashing out by saying something is stupid, which feels a little bit like I'm whatserface on the X-Men who can kill with a touch.
Everyone has that power. The secret trick is to use the word "stupid". Others that work are "racist", "misogynist", "objectively pro-Saddam", various others.
I feel like telling people they're stupid (or being stupid, or whatever) is the thing with the biggest disconnect between how EXTREMELY AFFRONTED it makes just about everyone (me included, I'm pretty sure) and how EXTREMELY OFTEN I want to say it.
Everyone has that power. The secret trick is to use the word "stupid".
Hello!
1135 to 1132.
Also, having grown up with shabbat dinners that made the Emmanuels seem like the Huxtables, I'm aware that my rhetorical style can become very off-putting. I learned in graduate school to be extra pabulumlicious in person, but I sometimes forget myself here. Again, sorry about that, eggplant.
I wish I could remember (and, thus, Google up) a good example where someone here told me I was being stupid. It has certainly happened. I don't think I flipped out about it. In some cases I think I even realized they were right and revised my opinion?
You're a good man, Charlie Brown.
1138: but, really, though. "Stupid" is a (thread-)killing word on the level of "racist"? What about "poopy" or "a stinky-head"? Maybe "foolish"? "Facile"? "Ignorant" is on there, of course.
1130: Okay.
I'm like "it hardly got to the level of an argument."
Puzzling then why you kept bringing it up days later.
1142: The only other internet location I spent a lot of time on had a lot of really hostile right-wing types: Ace of Spades got his start there. So I spent a bunch of time being called stupid in the ramp up to the Iraq war, but it was a little different because it was all openly savagely hostile, rather than a situation where you were expecting people to be friendly and then things got unexpectedly nasty.
1137: I'm curious how you think I should've approached that. I think it's a fun subject to argue about, and, yes, my opening was a bit trollish, which I admitted several comments later, but I then offered up what I thought were effective critiques of one of the survey papers.
People have told me I was being stupid or was saying things that are stupid and have been entirely correct. While I have undeniably reacted very (maybe even excessively) strongly to things people have said in this forum, I like to think they met a higher bar than calling something I said stupid. Because I'm not a fucking nine-year-old, would be my intemperate follow-up if such things weren't uncalled for, but I digress.
So, today is gonna be sad, small violins all the way down? I'll go clean the litter boxes, there's more interesting content.
Oh, go say nice things about Heebie's baby.
Seeing the new thread with a picture of a new baby reminds me of how special life is and how you're all such huge fucking assholes.
What if we find the tiniest violin, Biohazard? There might be quantum violin effects? Strange, tiny-violin paradoxes! This could lead to a whole new physics of self-pity! We'll be hailed as heroes!
1152: We could call it string theory!
Ranch dressing is totally stupid. Or I'm stupid for eating as many carrots dipped in ranch dressing as I just did. Why did I do that? Carrots are perfectly fucking delicious on their own.
Ranch dressing is totally stupid. Or I'm stupid for eating as many carrots dipped in ranch dressing as I just did. Why did I do that? Carrots are perfectly fucking delicious on their own.
And I double-posted! I blame the ranch dressing.
Stupid fucking piece of shit ranch dressing. I wouldn't fucking piss on ranch dressing if it was on fucking fire which would just be the kind of bullshit fucking stunt ranch dressing would pull, catching on fire like that. Asshole dressing.
Ranch dressing is awesome, you dipshits. Fries with ranch dressing was my go-to order at Denny's circa 2am.
Fuck you and your fucking Denny's!
What if we find the tiniest violin, Biohazard?
Rosin up your qubow?
between rounds of boot-n-rally at Delta Chi
Nice to finally see confirmation Emerson was right.
Oh, totally. I used to do hella bong rips with VW and Tuppy Endicott Coolidge Otis Wigglesworth III on the frat yacht, The Reformation Of The Narragensett.
Now, that's much better! Keep on.
whatserface on the X-Men
Stupid stupid whatever, but this is unacceptable. Sifu is banned.
True. I admit I thought of her name halfway through writing that comment.
Is anybody else mystified by this headline?
Boston Bombing Suspects Didn't Have Gun Permits
What does that have to do with anything? Presumably they weren't licensed explosives handlers, either. And Djokhar probably didn't have a boating license. Fucking scofflaws.
What does that have to do with anything?
Thus, requiring gun permits prevents no crimes. QED!
Now, if you couldn't buy a gun without a gun permit, well... then WWII wouldn't have happened!
This thread is going to die soon, isn't it. Sorry, 2000.
Only 1,953 comments to go in the baby thread.
1170 Don't be stupid. This thing is going to 2,000!
If not 2000, maybe we can take the thread to 1337.
I thought the page broke down once you got to so many comments. I thought the magic number was in the 1,100s, but it is becoming increasingly likely that I'm wrong.
It occurred to me at lunch that I'm constantly trying to restrain myself from sniping at people IRL.
Number of meetings I have to have today that I really, really don't want to go to and that will accomplish nothing: 4 and counting.
1174: We traditionally get nervous and close comments at 1000, but I think that tradition started several servers ago, I have no idea what it was based on originally, and I don't know how to close comments anyway. Someone else who knows more may sweep in and close the thread at any moment, though.
I think this is a fine, stupid thread to experiment in.
BOOGEDY BOOGEDY BOOGEDY BOO
ZIP ZOP ZOOBIDA BOP
Someone else could answer 1147, if essear is too busy. Or is that too serious for this part of the thread?
I have no idea what it was based on originally
Capacity, I believe - I think the system used to choke on too many comments.
Look at me not commenting on the issues raised in this latter part of the thread. I'm so proud of myself.
Really. Proud! I didn't mean to leave that unsigned.
1181: I come from a long line of people who handle interpersonal disagreements by pretending they don't exist and changing the subject. I've tried other ways, but come to rely on the wisdom of my ancestors.
This one ought to be good for another hundred comments:
Amanda Palmer's "A Poem for Dzhokhar"
Looks like Neil Gaiman indeed.
Via Lindsey Beyerstein who applies the appropriate epithet (i.e. Vogon).
1185: Oh, oh, and Mobutu Sese Seko's follow up: http://www.mrdestructo.com/2013/04/busta-poesy-amanda-palmers-unpublished.html
1181 Someone else could answer 1147, if essear is too busy.
I don't even remember how to find that thread anymore. I guess it seemed like you were asking questions about the topic but also inclined to preemptively dismiss it? I don't know. My memory could well be faulty. Just seems like if you honestly want someone to explain something to you, you should seem more open to the ideas.
I feel like my last several comments in this thread suffer from an excess of earnestness.
1185.2: Christ, what an asshole.
Threads used to really noticeably start taking a long time to reload at around a thousand comments. Doesn't seem to be true anymore.
Yeah this is free and easy. Let it roll!
1186: Ooh, didn't scroll down at first and thought it stopped with Wayne LaPierre. But there's more!
I searched for hippocampus hippo. On rereading, my comments were more combative in the beginning than I remembered, so nevermind (although there does seem to be a heavy assumption that I'm entirely ignorant of the subject). We'll have to rely on poetry for 2000.
1189: When I was traveling and only had my phone, this thread was a huge pain to load.
Takes about five seconds to load on my iPhone.
1185:
I'm pretty sure I would have forgiven her for lame poetry had she not flat-out defrauded her kickstarter donors. Claiming that 7" cost $100 a pop to produce? In fact, I wouldn't have even accused Amanda Palmer of trying to make the tragedy about Amanda Palmer on the basis of that poem by itself.
However, now that I know that Palmer is a narcissist and a grifter, well, the poem screams "I am a asshole."
Mr. Destructo had a satisfying response to Aaron Bady's kind of dumb post about irony on the new inquiry, too.
Meanwhile, in other "Christ! What an asshole!" news, ladies and gentlemen, I bring you Senator Rand Paul:
We should not proceed until we understand the specific failures of our immigration system. Why did the current system allow two individuals to immigrate to the United States from the Chechen Republic in Russia, an area known as a hotbed of Islamic extremism, who then committed acts of terrorism? Were there any safeguards? Could this have been prevented? Does the immigration reform before us address this?
1194: I have an android. It was loading fast enough, but it stopped taking me to the bottom automatically and scrolling was killing a great deal of time.
1197: Kyrgyzstan, Chechnya, whatevs.
I'm pretty sure I would have
forgiven her for lame poetry
had she only ended it with
Burma Shave!
Or Dagestan maybe? I'm also underinformed.
1186: So much awesome in one post. My head hurts.
This thread is Science!
I don't know how many thousands of Chechen immigrants there are in the US, but all of them think Rand Paul is a twat. Indeed, why do we let 9 year olds immigrate (on an asylum visa, no less, since in their homeland they might be killed by Russians) when they could grow up to be terrorists?
1185.2: I'm not connoisseur of poetry, but that really sucks balls.
It occurred to me at lunch that I'm constantly trying to restrain myself from sniping at people IRL.
I mutter under my breath a lot. I feel like a weirdo when I do it.
Threads this long require a lot of iphone masturbation to get to the end of the thread.
Man y'all get cranky sometimes.
I made a pointing of commenting with my real name on this thread b/c I knew a lot of what I said I've already said in other places, and with the same language too. I have no dog in this fight b/c I can see both sides; intellectually, with regard to the original argument, I think I agree with Tweety, but emotionally I fully understand where Eggplant is coming from except for the post 1009 disagreements with VW, who seems genuinely sorry there. I tend to think of myself as an extreme outsider here, so for what it's worth here are my long thoughts.
1138/1142/etc. I kind of understand the impetus to just use the word stupid when you mean to use the word stupid. I have a lot of friends who do that, and my mother did that when she felt she didn't need to be deliberately tactful. (I.e. with family. :-p ) It certainly has its place and can be used to describe distant people and ideas really satisfyingly. But given that people gravitate here in order to talk with other smart people as a refuge from larger swathes of stupidity on the internet---and pretty much everyone here is pretty smart in the grand scheme of things, even the disagreeable JBS---using it to blankly describe either a person or their directly owned opinion or statement is . . .kind of mean. Do a cntrl-F for "stupid" in this thread and it's pretty clear which usages are mean to those who are here and which are not. Moreover I think "stupid" when applied to the words and ideas of a fellow commenter (which is all we have here) is a little uninformative. Unclear? Illogical? Disingenuous? Ignoring key information? Badly spelled? Making assumptions? Negligently unempathetic? It's not a very communicative adjective. It just implies contempt. I actually find it more offputting than being called racist or misogynist, b/c at least I know what those could be pointing at.
I've been lurking here on and off since 2005 or 2006 and I first showed up to tell everyone to stop being so mean, without googleproofing, to a mathematician who was profiled in the NYT wedding column----so you can imagine that I have little credibility or expertise on what importance meanness has to unfogged. In my experience everyone is very nice in person and off blog communication.
I will say that f--- you to anyone strikes me as also a bit rude, unless done in obvious humor a la halford above. The only person I regularly want to say that to is JBS and I don't think I ever have. I kind of understand vw being miffed at Eggplant's refusal to consider VW's apology, but I don't understand why VW and ST are so mad at parsimon. Perhaps I am biased since parsimon has always been particularly pro-active about being kind to me offblog, but it seemed to me that she was just trying to make peace and that her interest in Eggplant's pov was quite genuine. At the same time I kind of think anyone not in Boston should cut ST some slack b/c hell, he was there and it sounds stressful.
You're all really smart and interesting people, and usually all really nice to me, and I do sometimes wish you'd be nicer to each other and more willing to accept apologies. I thought this would be a good time for me to say all this since I'm not pseudonymous anyway and since I'm going to have to cut myself off from all extraneous online convos for the next week or so also starting tonight, so I'm basically going back to lurking.
Who says I'm mad at parsimon?
Actually I'm not mad at anybody. But specifically, I don't know where the idea I'm mad at parsimon would come from.
You got lumped in with VW, who got cross with her above.
It's the whole Brolociraptor thing again, isn't it?
Does anyone remember how to find a link to the study that came out, maybe a few months ago, where they told one subject to tap the other on the hand, and told the other subject to respond with a tap of exactly equal force, and each tap got slightly more forceful until by the fourth or fifth iteration they were hitting really hard?
1210: This looks more like something to do with cruciferous vegetables than it was probably meant to.
Threads this long require a lot of iphone masturbation to get to the end of the thread.
Somewhere, in an Unfogged thread, there is a link to a little script you can bookmark on your iPhone that automatically scrolls to the end of a page.
I guess if I were less lazy I would inspect the bookmark on my phone and tell you what it is.
Man y'all get cranky sometimes.
Cranky? I'll show you fucking cranky!
Just use the recent comment links instead of the OP comment link.
iphone masturbation
A while back lurid keyaki asked me to write Unfogged: the App for her Android phone that would finesse the comment scroll business and, I forget, there might have been one other problem specific to phone browsers. That I haven't gotten around to doing it is why the Chinese are winning at tech.
1216: Not useful if you're trying to read the end of a thread that's no longer on the recent comments link.
Here's a link that explains how to get scroll-to-bottom on the iPhone.
iOS 6 has fussed with the scrolling so now it speeds up a whole lot after you've swiped a couple times. It's no longer that much a pain in the ass to get to the bottom of a thread.
I never installed iOS 6 because of all the complaints about the maps. Should I go ahead and install it now?
1222: the Google Maps app for iOS 6 is better than iOS 5 maps ever was. And Apple Maps isn't as terrible as all that.
1197: Surely we can all assume that Rand Paul asked the analogous questions about our culture and educational system after the Sandy Hook shootings or the Aurora shootings, right?
1185: Thanks, Neil Gaiman! Great work!
Did the Google Maps app not exist at first or something? I heard a bunch of people screaming about how they couldn't use Google Maps on their phone anymore. Maybe I shouldn't base my software upgrade decisions on random people's Facebook complaints.
That's why I keep making inane comments in any thread I might want to keep reading, just to keep it on the front page. Look, here's another!
1226: it did not exist at first, right. What's awesome now is that you can use it without logging in, so you get the niftiness of Google Maps with none of the shadiness of Google tracking you everywhere you go and tying that to your YouTube video watching habits to some unknowable and foul end.
The pre-installed maps app was Apple's own, not Google, and apparently sucked. OTOH, it takes 30 seconds to download the free Google Maps app, which is just as lovely as it ever was.
1224: If only the brothers had been killed by drones in some other country rather than captured by police work in Boston, I'm sure Senator Rand would be standing up for American freedoms rather than quietly a bunch of dudes from his caucus demand an American citizen be held without counsel and denied a civilian trial. Because freedom!
Is this our all-time longest thread ever? I think Innocence topped out in the 1100s.
Would it be better or worse if drones could take people alive, I wonder?
1208: My bad. I got confused with all my cntrl-F results and the times Von wafer was VW.
1211: Kale always struck me as good "pretending to be a dinosaur" food, but not a raptor, obviously. I'm more of a Brontosaurus type.
tying that to your YouTube video watching habits to some unknowable and foul end.
Martial law, no doubt. They'll know just what to put on teevee to keep you inside "voluntarily."
Kale leads people to keep hitting each other harder?
Oh nooooo Idiocracy is on continuous loop Orwell would have seen this!
1231 - The Innocence thread made it to 1435. We've got a ways to go, yet.
I don't think I've eaten a kale chip since the Great Unfogged Kale Chip Fad of Aught-Nine.
I think for me it would be Ronin and Young Sherlock Holmes back to back to back to back.
(Who am I kidding? Discovery ID is enough.)
If we made this the longest thread ever, would Ogged come back?
1232: That's basically what happens in The Culture, right?
My weak understanding from The Last Refuge is that Obama stepped up drones b/c he didn't want to keep stuffing people into Gitmo and the Jan 9 AQ video with two Gitmo alumni is what politically crushed any attempt to close Gitmo or have a domestic/dueprocess based detainment system. So it could be better, but only if we actually have a process in place for dealing with them that is more effective than Gitmo.
I had creamed Kale last night. It was really awesome.
1239: Get with the times. It's all about kale salad now.
1236: No it just looks nice and Jurassic and you can make satisfying crunch crunch noises while you pick it off your plate with your mouth and swing your neck around and let someone else do the flying pteradactyl hands that you lazily swat at. (Perhaps TMI about how dinner time sometimes goes with me.)
I also didn't upgrade my iPad's OS when Apple wanted me to because I had heard about the flaws in the new map app - I think the biggest one was that support for transit routing was completely wiped out.
I did, however, hear about Google's release of a new free Maps app not long after the OS' release, so the last two months or more of iOS 5.1.1 have to be chalked up to lazy loyalty to my initial refusenik position.
1244: Oh yes. Less good for playing dinosaur, more good for deliciousness.
Whose nuttiness isn't heightened by lemon juice?
1232/42: I just realized that The Culture would exile them all to space somehow a la Zod.
I made 24 quarts of kale-white bean-barley soup last night. In fact, this weekend we made over 100 quarts of food to freeze for meals over the next several months. Minestrone soup, vegetarian chili, mac and cheese, peanut sauce (for cold sesame noodles), spinach/cheese casserole. Those of you on FB saw the baby in the large pot involved in this.
1248: look, I had really solid info that ATM cameras worked that way.
asked me to write Unfogged: the App for her Android phone
Let the record also show that this request was not serious.
1196 should also put the meanness of anything said about anyone's arguments here in perspective.
God damn America:
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/15869-will-a-legal-defender-of-terrrorist-suspects-die-of-cancer-in-prison
Kale leads people to keep hitting each other harder?
Crossfit says yes.
Only 180 comments to go to beat the Innocence thread. C'mon people, we can do this!
1250 Whoa. What kind of freezer do you have?? What containers do you freeze all this in? What's your electricity bill like? Is there a particular crisis coming up to inspire such large scale preparation?
1250: are you made of beans?? Did you have to buy a magical helping donkey?? Are you a prepper?? Did God tell you to do this??
1254 Oh my god, I had no idea. I didn't even know about her. How horrible. Well, if we made such an example of a premier defense attorney who made the mistake of representing an accused terrorist I'm not sure there's much point to capturing people alive after all.
I don't understand why there aren't at least two books about her case. You'd think there'd be a market for one on either side. Perhpas its all too classified, but that hasn't stopped a lot of other books from coming out.
1258: If you are trying to make fun of me by asking more questions the way I do, good job. But now I want to know the answers to those too. ;-) (
I had a fun time the other day telling a desi-American friend who's just moved to AZ about Mormon's and their year of food and their cycling through. She'd never actually known any Mormons before and was really confused by the grocery store promotions in her very Mormon neighborhood.)
I admit an answer to the magical helping donkey question would be welcome.
;-) (
Person winking while holding her knees up to her chin?
Here's a snippet from the docket entry in the criminal case referring to the bedside court appearance: Court advises the defendant of his rights and the charges against him. Government states the maximum penalties and moves for detention. Defendant agrees to an order of voluntary detention without prejudice. Defendant declines to answer bail questions and assents to a probable cause hearing on May 30, 2013 at 10:00am. Court is satisfied that the defendant is alert and able to respond to the charges. Defendant is remanded from the custody of the FBI agents present to the U.S. Marshals.
Maybe I shouldn't comment so much now that my girlfriend knows where the blog is and can see I'm in my office not working on any project.
If this thread is seriously going to make a run at the record for longest thread ever, then I respectfully request that it be tested for steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs. Would one of the admins please have the blog pee in a cup? (Webcam on, please.)
Or maybe your girlfriend should comment, too!
1265: geez enough with the dominance signalling.
Defendant represented at the thing by a federal public defender.
This *is* what civilization looks like.
I showed her the poetry thread and she explained that there was some trend in China of taking old poems and adding some line to them that was something like "the tree branch extends outside the wall". I explained that we had the same thing but with "Fuck you, clown" and she said the meaning was basically the same if you were clued in to Chinese poetry.
Given 1269, 1266 gets it exactly right.
In the interest of not killing the thread: what ever happend to the ricin dude?
hi, Saheli! what do you think about my being treated like a troll? if you were lurking that long i could have expected a little solidarity from you
i hope Eggplant has decided to let his ticket expire, cheers!
and btw, congrats, heebie, with a beautiful baby
"The tree branch extends outside the wall" should be the default mouseover text, with the added bonus that it makes a nice descriptive caption to the photo.
When I was little, like 3 or 4, my mother read me the Bremen Town musicians. I responded by begging for a singing donkey. I wanted it to sleep in the bed with me ("Mommy, you can sleep on the floor!")* and sit on the couch with me, etc. etc., and this apparently is the first time I uttered the magical whine, "All I want is a ____! I never get anything I want," and various other lines which all fostered much amusement and were used to tease me for decdaes after. The incident was particularly immortalized in a French memoir assignment my sister wrote which then won a prize, such that random teachers at her high school teased me about it.
25 years later my mother and sister sat me down on the couch and recited the whole narrative. In great detail. I was kind of mystified b/c usually it was reserved to mock me in front of friends and relatives and I was pretty sure I hadn't asked for anything in years and it just seemed a little weird. Suddenly, they said, "And now! We have decided to fulfill your wish!" And they gave me Hank.
I just wasted a lot of time trying to find a video of Hank, the Toy Singing Donkey, which I think *used* to be sold as a fundraising toy to support this place, but is no longer available. I'll have to go home and make a video of him and put it online; hopefully this thread will still be going by then. His lip quivers when he gets to the vibrato bits and it's pretty magical; not exactly helpful per se but very cheering.
*Yes, like many desi kids, I was a cosleeper until 8 or 9. Please don't mock me about it, I'm in a sad mood about it b/c my mother's 1st death anniversary is coming.
Defendant agrees to an order of voluntary detention without prejudice.
WTF does this mean? He agrees to stay after school and it doesn't go on his transcript? (By not fighting the detention order he's still not admitting guilt?)
His lip quivers when he gets to the vibrato bits
Does he look like Richard Schiff?
I find parsimon's tendency to nanny commenters very frustrating, Saheli. I've spoken, sometimes even civilly, with her about this frustration before -- to no avail. Moreover, I find her tendency to pile on in threads like this one profoundly counter-productive. That said, if I've hurt her feelings by telling her to fuck off, I'll be happy to apologize to her. I have precisely zero interest in actually causing anyone here pain of any kind. And I'm aware, as this thread has demonstrated yet again, that I sometimes do cause people people pain, which gives me pause. Really, though, telling parsimon to fuck off seemed much friendlier than laying out, yet again and in crippling detail, the source of my frustration with her.
1272: what? I don't know what you mean. I've been lurking a long time but not consistently. . . .maybeI missed something? sorry if I should have had solidarity about something?
Just doing my part to get this thread to 36,000 (it's inevitable).
about Mormon's and their year of food and their cycling through
OMG. This reminds me. You know those dumb stickers on the back of minivans that depict the family to which it belongs? You know, stick figure mom, dad,* son, daughter? Maybe a cat and dog? I saw one the other day that had cartoon Mormon mission dudes -- short side-part hair, short-sleeved button down, tie, slacks, belt, loafers -- with the location of each mission labeled. Made my day.
*My very favorites are the ones where the dad has clearly been razored off fairly recently.
So which one was the "Innocence" thread - we need a link!
1280.last: You hate to see a good sticker lost to divorce.
*My very favorites are the ones where the dad has clearly been razored off fairly recently.
Guess that's better than one of the kids getting disowned and razored off but yowch.
1276: Heh. I never watched WW. More like Whitney Houston singing National Anthem.
You know those dumb stickers on the back of minivans that depict the family to which it belongs? You know, stick figure mom, dad,* son, daughter?
Oh yes. And I know a woman who has a stick figure family on her play date cards. I find this irritating.
1259 -- Every rw troll out there has heard of her, ime.
1280.*: I've never seen this but if I did it would make my day.
What the fuck, I'm supposed to be making and handing out "play date cards" now? Jesus Christ, I hate organized motherhood so fucking much.
if drones could take people alive
I just flashed back to being 13 years old and playing Defender in an arcade.
1277: I see, well, like I said, I'm not consistent enough of a reader or lurker to know what you're talking about. I guess I'm kind of nannyish myself in that my tendency is always towards asking people to be nice to each other, I hate the thought of people feeling ganged up on, etc.. Anyway, I see what you mean about requiring some abbreviated shorthand, but for someone arriving without any context (which I usually am) it does seem a bit disproportionate. I realized that "I feel like _____ is being a nanny again, as previously hashed out, and will be ignoring her points going forward," is far more clunk and more satisfying than telling someone to fuck off, but there is a trade off and I'm just pointing it out.
Also, Halford, the kids need to be able to trade in hole-punched play date cards for candy.
1292: I take it you haven't finished reading the archives yet?
Halford beat me in 1289. WTF? I'm never going to be ready to have children am I.
1257-1258:
14.8 cubic foot chest freezer in the basement. Also contains ~8 gallons of breast milk (well, maybe less now as it's being used up.)
Gallon freezer bags.
Probably went up $20/year when we got the freezer.
We do this every 4-6 months so we can just reheat/bake meals during the week. The theory is that we completely ignore kids a couple days while cooking everything, then have more time on work days. But those couple days we're cooking, it's like lord of the flies- the kids took some bread and cheese from the fridge and set up their own picnic on their playset because we forgot to give them lunch.
Not made of beans, but coincidentally while shopping at costco I also bought a large pack of gasX.
No donkey, just the big pot.
Yes in the Josh Marshall "everyone's a prepper!" sense of we have extra batteries and flashlights and water in the basement. This isn't part of that, though- we don't have a generator so all the food would go bad if the power went out more than a couple days.
The FSM told me to do it, you'll notice the only pasta dishes are non-spaghetti.
1290: Silly modern parenting crap! Dress 'em in rags, put them on busy street corners with begging bowls, and pick them up when you're finished with your day. Feed them something if they're getting too weak to sit up and look pitiful.
1292: er, not quite.
1287: Does rw mean read write the website?
1262: perhaps I shall permanently adopt that typo as that's usually the position I'm in when I'm commenting.
They're also known as "Mommy cards," Halford, which term is even worse.
Anyway, I didn't know about them either until I met a type-A personality, helicopter parenting, professionalization of motherhood sort of mother at the comic book store (where our sons were hanging out), and she asked me if I wanted to "exchange cards." To which I replied, "Cards?"
Probably went up $20/year when we got the freezer.
Huh. I guess by doing it all at once you'll have a big power surge the day you stick it all in, and then it will be fairly low power after that. And a chest in the basement helps too. That's really neat. I happened to spend yesterday stocking up my regular top-half freezer with frozen fruit from TJ's and was really frustrated at how quickly it fills up. If I ever do get around to having kids I think I'd like to try your route.
What approximate region do you live in? I'm researching DIY off-grid semi portable solar panel/battery systems, and apparently the batteries are getting good enough that they can do things like keep an efficient, full, closed freezer going for a couple of days. (But I could be wrong, that was a potential application over a bad cell phone call.)
1298.2 Right wing. All lawyers who represent persons accused (or not!) of anything to do with terrorism are traitors, because . . . Lynne Stewart. None should ever have any access to (a) clients or (b) any information about clients because . . . Lynne Stewart. Rules that the government has about dealing with classified information will be violated because . . . Lynne Stewart.
I'm sorry she's ill. And thought the sentence she originally appealed from was fairer than the one she got on re-sentencing.
To which I replied, "Cards? You don't use the iPhone App? Were you raised by baboons?"
Is the way I hoped the story would go.
I was reading the Innocence thread (not sure if I was around or, if around, reading the comments at that point), and thought some would like to know that Leisuretown has stealthily restored the original cartoon images in "A Comedy Crisis." (Extremely NSFW and for most sensibilities.)
Also contains ~8 gallons of breast milk
Nursing preppers! I'm duly impressed.
1302: Oh dear, I can already tell that my future fellow play date mothers are going to have letterpressed cards and will be serenely telling me why they don't use facebook and gmail while I frantically search for their contact information. My future children don't really need friends, do they? That's what the internet is for!
You can probably guess where I live based on the fact that I'm responsible for ~9% of the comments on this thread (try 1082)
Bave and I made kale Caesar salads a couple of times this summer, inspired by an Italian place uptown. They're really great and you feel almost dizzy from virtue eating that much kale.
I think the fact that we're trying to get to 15,000,000 comments or whatever exempts me from finding $5 at the end of this comment.
All good moms use the high-class, organic, wooden hand-cranked I-Phone these days anyway, not the tacky noisy plastic one.
My very favorites are the ones where the dad has clearly been razored off fairly recently.
I'd seen the stick figures but had never noticed they were anatomically correct.
I have a prepper friend (prep is actually his profession of expertise) who was also a stay at home dad, so the freezer chest and frozen breast milk was really key to his ability to feed the kid while the mother was at work or travelling for work. Rumor has it that they managed the stocks so well that they were able to make a tidy some of cash selling the extras on craigslist after the baby was weaned. . .. .but now that I think about it I didn't hear that directly from them but from a mutual friend prone to exaggerating.
Wow. I failed at motherhood in ways I had never even imagined.
I can already tell that my future fellow play date mothers are going to have letterpressed cards and will be serenely telling me why they don't use facebook and gmail
If they're gonna go that route, they'd better have a white-gloved butler who greets you at the door with a silver tray for you to put your card on.
1306: Ah, got it. So, sadly, not that sunny, I guess. But if your basement is flood proof you can get get more bang for your flux, b/c it's a nice stable place to keep more batteries.
1312: I always figure other people's togetherness is a function of their superior togetherness and not their financial wherewithal, but maybe you're right. I do know a lot of seemingly non rich people who are surprisingly anti gmail and anti facebook though, and they seem like the kind of together people who would have made their own letterpress cards. Now that I think about it I have no idea how they make a living.
My "Play Date" card is engraved on a card of white Bristol board about five and a half inches wide and three and three-quarters of an inch high. It has an embossed crest without color. It reads: "
[Redacted Kid]. Will be at home on ___[date]. The favor of a response is requested."
1301 - The sentence she got on appeal was for perjury rather than the violation of the administrative orders about communicating what her client said, wasn't it? Or am I misremembering? (I think a ten year sentence for perjury is pretty outrageous.)
If we end up with extra breast milk I want to try making cheese. I heard it's not the right consistency, though- too high in sugars or something.
I just put my kids at an intersection with "NEED FRIENDS PLEASE HELP" written in marker on a piece of cardboard.
So, sadly, not that sunny, I guess.
It is actually quite sunny around here. It is the intersection of sunny and warm that many find lacking.
1307: If the Times' crossword clues are anything to go by, $5 is redundant when talking about kale.
Back on topic, they charged him with using a weapon of mass destruction? Man has that term been degraded in the last 12 years (from nuclear to nuclear/biological/chemical to degraded chemical munitions to home made bombs.)
Yeah, there was some interactive map thing that estimated your house's solar potential and if I just cut down that big tree in the neighbor's yard I might be able to go off the grid.
It's sunny enough on the south side of the house for a decent garden, and I just planted some apple trees last week, actually I was burying them at the very moment the bombs went off.
1315: I love how at the end they have to give a template for the *telephone* conversation version of an invitation as well.
Rumor has it that they managed the stocks so well that they were able to make a tidy some of cash selling the extras on craigslist after the baby was weaned
I imagine there are at least two distinct types of people who would buy frozen breast milk on craigslist.
a weapon of mass destruction? Man has that term been degraded in the last 12 years (from nuclear to nuclear/biological/chemical to degraded chemical munitions to home made bombs.
See, I told you Saddam had WMDs.
Man has that term been degraded in the last 12 years (from nuclear to nuclear/biological/chemical to degraded chemical munitions to home made bombs.)
I'm amazed now, because it looks like this defining-down in law predates 9/11! It's in 18 USC 2332a. The definition of "WMD" as including "any destructive device" dates to Public Law 103-322, signed into law on September 13, 1994. (And its referenced definition of "destructive device" seems to be identical to that passed in PL 90-608 from 1968.)
We've been going down this road longer than we think.
1328. From the definition of destructive devices:
"(4) The term "destructive device" means--
(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas--
(i) bomb,
(ii) grenade,
(iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces,
(iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,
(v) mine, or
(vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;"
That's pretty general. Seems like a dry ice soda bottle bomb would be included in that. I'm surprised this definition didn't come more in 2003-2004.
I wonder if law school will ever be cheap enough for me to go just for fun.
This thread isn't moving fast enough! And soon I have to run off to dinner with a receiption at some Hou/se Mas/ter's Resi/dence followed by dinner in a Jun/ior Com/mon Ro/om and what is this, Hogwarts?
For folks not clicking through and reading the 51 page opinion in the Lynne Stewart case, here is how it ends:
From the moment she committed the first act for which she was convicted, through her trial, sentencing, and appeals, Stewart has persisted in exhibiting what seems to be a stark inability to understand the seriousness of her crimes, the breadth and depth of the danger in which they placed the lives and safety of unknown innocents, and the extent to which they constituted an abuse of her trust and privilege as a member of the bar. We cannot agree with her that the sentence imposed on her was "shockingly high" so as to warrant a finding of substantive unreasonableness.
see, again i'm blockedm treated like a troll
for expressing exactly what you say in your comments
but it's good you missed all the troll wars, and i dont write any websites
I assume some comments will get deleted, which is both not too bad and kind of too bad, as they are getting us closer to 'l33tness.
F it. '1337 k1dz! y4h y4ll 1 4m th4 b4dd1zzzt!
And I took a screenshot just in case.
I hope that poor Public Defender doesn't get hounded. :-(
I thought some people used to put their receiving day on their calling cards, but if it isn't in the link in 1315 I guess not. Would be useful for playdates, surely; every Tuesday Missy Bo entertains from 3 to 5. Not exclusive enough? To hard to rescind invitations without a butler?
I suppose the app is like Grindr, but what will it be called?
Toddlr. (I think there already is a Playr.)
My Kindr brings all the boys to the Garten.
1344 Virtual cards inside virtual chocolate eggs?
God, I totally want an OK Cupid for playdates. You could take a hundred question compatibility survey with questions like "How important is it to you to be able to throw cookies onto the floor?"
Would you rather use a crayon for (a) drawing (b) food?
Also at least 1/3 of the girl toddlers would be jewelry designers, and no 4 year old boy who wears Ed Hardy could ever go on a playdate.
1332: I'm not questioning the legality of the resentencing -- of course people in power are going to make it legal for themselves to exercise that power -- how else would you expect them to act. To judge whether this is a just sentence, however, we have to accept the following propositions:
1. That the "special administrative measures" which placed broad restrictions on the freedom of speech of Rahman and his legal team and several other people were just.
2. That "terrorism enhancements" are a just addition to our legal code.
3. That threatening the Mubarak regime was somehow wrong.
4. That conspiracy laws and definitions are just.
I don't believe any of those propositions. With regard to the Mubarak regime, I'm glad it's over and I wish it had fallen sooner. As far as the US legal questions go, aside from denying the legitimacy of the court/cop system in the first place, all of those tactics were created specifically to maintain the illegitimate hold on power of a small oligarchy of corrupt individuals and institutions. They weren't called for by the people -- most people in this country don't even know they exist. Their application has not been in even the slightest way uniform, and they do little or nothing to address the harms they were ostensibly designed to combat.
Mr. Destructo had a satisfying response to Aaron Bady's kind of dumb post about irony on the new inquiry, too.
Links? I haven't really kept up with Bady's non-twitter stuff since he moved to New Inquiry. And he tweets so much I can barely keep up with that too.
1. She shouldn't have agreed to them. Or should have found a way to make a direct challenge rather than violating them, trying to conceal her violation, pretending she didn't think she had violated them when she was caught, and then saying she'd do it again.
2. I think sentences are too long, and the guidelines sentence for LS -- 30 years -- shows it. I don't think I have a problem with a terrorism enhancement, though.
Stupid Android.
Both of my Android devices have always jumped to the bottom of threads just like on a regular computer. At least they have in Chrome; I'm not sure about the stock Android browser.
So: now that heebie's on maternity leave, there won't be any new posts for a while, and everyone will keep posting here until the whole thing explodes?
This is America. There's no maternity leave.
I don't know what called for by the people means.
||What is your guess for "who is sitting in a chair in my driveway?" I bet you don't get it right!|>
No one's sitting in a chair in my driveway!
Giorgio Chinaglia? Francisco "Paco" Rabaneda Cuervo? Sandy Koufax? Abner Louima?
I'll be surprised if it's not one of those guys.
Shit, that rules out Koufax and Louima.
Do you keep a chair in your driveway for guest who can't text or did he bring his own?
Alex Trebek. Don't let him near the kitchen.
My mother once had a date with Alex Trebek.
Fake accent, it's easily found on the front page of Et Tu, Mr. Destructo. Can't provide link easily at the moment.
Is the chair empty? Because if no not metaphorical Obama.
1365: proving, once again, that there are only seven Canadians.
Others brought the chair for him. Additional hint: He has been to prison.
Wait, is it Ariel Sharon? I don't think he texts any more.
1368: Seven Canadians, plus my (very large) extended family.
I don't think 1369 rules out 1370. Also, it's pretty weird that Arik Sharon is still alive, right?
1366: Thanks. Somehow I never heard of Mr. Destructo even though I've seen stuff by the same Mobuto Sese Seko. I blame twitter. Again.
Oh I bet it is somebody dead, though.
1360: I would not have pegged you for a Cosmos fan.
1372: I can only report that my mother thought he was "a bit of a bore." Apparently, at this stage of his career, he had not yet discovered game shows and was contemplating the priesthood.
Not fair! not fair! It isn't fair, my precious, is it, to ask who it's got sitting in its nassty little driveway? It must give us three guesseses.
1376: there's no way it's Carl Sagan, Josh.
Hint: You may have called him, at one time, 23, 24, or 600.
I knew it was Arik Sharon! What do I win?
So in addition to not texting, he also doesn't count?
1350: Regarding #3, was it about challenging the Mubarak regime or about updating outside associates about his stance? Isn't the idea that for all we know Mubarak was immaterial and the update itself was the message, somehow signifying something else?
Since apparently this is an issue only after appeal, I can't quite figure out how you'd get around it. Not passing on messages that are irrelevant to your tiral for convicted terrorist seems somewhat reasonable.
Anyway, he can't be that interesting, if you're commenting here about it. Without knowing the answer, I'm going to rank this lower than that bird that landed on your car on my Halford anecdote list.
Oh my god it's RobloxPlayer 2013!
Gonna turn into a pumpkin soon, good luck and good night!
Since it's Arik Sharon, 1385 is pretty antisemitic.
Should I give out the giveaway hint? Also he's no longer in the driveway.
Also that bird on my car was totally fascinating. Taking it to 2000.
You may have called him
Called him why? Did you call him over for a play date?
OK, here you go. He has warned you about fucking with the wrong _____.
By "you" I don't mean you personally.
Jesus, Halford, this better be good.
He has warned you about fucking with the wrong _____
shoes on?
If no one gets it before the thread crashes, I will never reveal the answer.
1399: I hope we're not giving you the impression that we're trying to guess correctly.
1402 -- nope, somewhat sadly.
Jill? You know, from up the hill? I think your kid has a playdate card from her.
Have you ever been to prison, Halford?
1357: Is it Gary U.S. Bonds? Robert Clivillés? Ross Bagdasarian Jr.?
Seriously how is it possible that no one has it yet?
I hate to bring it up at a time like this, but haven't there been other 1000 comment threads? For some reason I thought Innocence had been challenged before.
Whoa. Sorry to interject, but I've just seen this (short) John Yoo piece of hogwash on the Boston bombings and suspects, essentially arguing again for a preemptive military policy.
How is this a victory for traditional law enforcement? Two young brothers, lightly armed, killed several innocent civilians, wounded 170, killed an officer and wounded another, and shut down one of America's great cities. We had a whole city trapped in its homes and paramilitary forces in its streets.
Wow -- I really thought that guy had at least figured out that he should lay low for a while, or perhaps should be embarrassed.
(h/t Conor Friedersdorf at the Atlantic.)
Wait, did cavemen even have driveways?
It's not John Yoo. He's in the backyard, fucking a goat.
Anyhow that's great about Luis Guzman.
Wry Cooter? Roscoe P. Coal-train?
1341.1: When we moved into our 110-year-old house, I wanted to institute an At Home. I just had neighbors who are helping me with the PTA garden/tree presentation at Nia's school over and it was wonderful, as was having our next-door neighbors and their friends two weeks ago and three of Mara's preschool teachers last weekend. We need to do more hosting, which is more fun and more kid-friendly than going out.
1417: What would Yoo doo? Call in airstrikes at random places in Boston until he nailed the right two guys? Dumb fuck.
He has warned you about fucking with the wrong _____
City? I'd think you wouldn't allow a Masshole on your driveway.
Only ten more and we're past the Innocence thread. Woot! Onwards to 2000!
1418: holy shit, is it Mickey Kaus?
1278
1272: what? I don't know what you mean. I've been lurking a long time but not consistently. . . .maybeI missed something? sorry if I should have had solidarity about something?
Read used to comment here. She didn't get along with some people. They were a bit mean to her. Read decided to adopt a policy of massive retaliation. This (not surprisingly) got her banned but she still haunts the place from time to time.
(I'm boring, but: Danny Trejo.)
1428 -- no, but I have been in a different driveway with him.
1429- And sits in Halford's and Neb's driveways.
I think it's you (Halford), and not Yoo.
Jan Jacob Jingleheimer Schmitty
I heard an interesting theory today, that the older brother was undergoing serious roid rage given his outbursts, personality problems, and association with amateur sports known for use of steroids (he did both wrestling and boxing, right? Or did only the younger do wrestling?) They're investigating him now as the possible culprit in an unsolved triple homicide of some people he apparently knew.
There are undoubtedly loads of people who have both been to prison and warned other people not to fuck with something or other. Those were totally lame hints.
Longest thread still plausibly on topic!
I have no idea who Danny Trejo is. Did he kill Kirov?
no, but I have been in a different driveway with him.
I have grilled Mickey Kaus a hamburger. I might have even put cheese on it for him.
What was Danny Trejo doing sitting in a chair in your driveway?
Also: WOOT! Longest thread.
Dude I had motherfucking MACHETE and JOHNNY 23 and BAD ASS sitting in the driveway, totally unexpectedly. Like, I pulled up and there he was sitting in a director's chair. He got up and politely moved so I could get into the driveway. They are filming next door.
I saw him at the 2004 DNC after Kerry's speech, on his way to the subway. I thought about trying to convince him that Kerry had done a good job but I didn't really want to get into a conversation with him.
1327 1332
If Stewart hadn't appealed her conviction would the government have let her first sentence stand?
I was hoping you'd say he was visiting you to report some stolen intellectual property.
He got up and politely moved so I could get into the driveway
See, now that's badass.
1421 was pretty funny, you know.
And then you'd hop in your car together and go mete out some two-fisted copyright justice, buddy-style.
I thought I just saw him in something I watched, but it was just his head attached to the back of a tortoise.
1350
3. That threatening the Mubarak regime was somehow wrong.
From page 5 of the opinion linked above:
"In November 1997, . . . a group associated with al-Gama'a attacked, killed, and mutilated the bodies of more than sixty tourists, guides, and guards at the Hatshepsut Temple in Luxor, Egypt." Stewart I, 590 F.3d at 103.
1431, 1443: In 1992 or so I saw Poi Dog Pondering at the 9:30 Club with Mickey Kaus.
I have grilled Mickey Kaus a hamburger. I might have even put cheese on it for him.
Goat cheese?
1428: 1418 s/b 1419 dammit. That would have been great.
1147
1137: I'm curious how you think I should've approached that. I think it's a fun subject to argue about, and, yes, my opening was a bit trollish, which I admitted several comments later, but I then offered up what I thought were effective critiques of one of the survey papers.
You can't force people to talk about what you want to talk about. Particularly if it involves actual work like reading references. Say what you have to say and if no one is interested move on. It might come up again another time.
1167
Is anybody else mystified by this headline?
Boston Bombing Suspects Didn't Have Gun Permits
What does that have to do with anything? Presumably they weren't licensed explosives handlers, either. And Djokhar probably didn't have a boating license. Fucking scofflaws.
They had guns. Checking whether they had them legally is the first step in investigating that. If they bought them illegally then there are other people involved at least to some extent.
Since there are only seven Canadians, can I conclude Alex Trebek was implicated in the foiled terror plot the news headlines are talking about?
Come on, you know you all want to take this thread to 1500.
We can see if it changes dramatically between 1491 and 1492.
And because I'm slow, can someone explain the "24" and "600" parts of the Trejo thing?
1493, dammit. Sure is taking a long time to load this thing on refresh.
1461: Sure, but Trebek's notoriously hard to convict the first time around. The guy's an expert at double jeopardy.
Also, it turns out the undergrads at this place basically do live in Hogwarts? Not sure how that relates to the sense of entitlement.
1467: did you go to the freshman dining hall or something?
We had a fancy dinner for an important speaker in one of the undergrad houses, which was much posher than I was expecting somehow. I mean, I guess in some technical sense it was dining hall food, but it was on par with a pretty nice restaurant. Presumably the students don't eat that sort of thing every day. And the rooms seemed much more old-fashioned in a genteel sort of way than any dorm I ever encountered before.
1464 -- He played Johnny 23 in Con Air, and also claimed that he should be known as Johnny 24 or Johnny 600.
JBS, you'd have to look at the timing. If she filed on the last day, and the gov't filed it's cross appeal a few days later, then yes, you'd say that they would have let it stand if she wasn't already taking it up. If they filed within the time, though, I think they might have been looking to make a statement.
Con Air is Con Edison's air conditioning business, right? The jump from 23 to 600 has something to do with a "billing adjustment".
1467: Sounds kind of like what I've heard about a rival school's undergrad halls.
A documentary about the air conditioning business would've been a better movie.
1469: ahh. I went to a thing in one of the undergrad houses with Blume (hosted by her old department). I wouldn't describe it as posh, but there was a flavor of genteel rot, certainly.
Sounds like essear's department has their fancy dinners in a posher undergrad house than Blume's.
Could be. Blume's department is not one of those ones with, like, institutional support to speak of.
1454: There's lots of types and instances of political violence. Any number of entities practice some of them every day. Do you want to propose that one act of political violence which is especially offensive makes an entire political movement or even just an entire organization, illegitimate? The US Army has done some pretty horrible things. So did the UDA. And the Red Army Fraction. And the ANC. And the BJP. And the Tamil Tigers. I don't think any massacres of civilians are a good idea, but virtually every army ever has committed a few, at least. And almost every paramilitary. And every irregular force. So what's your point? Is it a good idea to kill 54 people? Usually the answer is no. Sometimes the answer is yes. When you're going up against a totalitarian regime that regularly practices extra-judicial killings, torture, internment without trial, etc. etc., it may be the case that it is easier to justify committing a particularly heinous act, even if you would deplore it in other circumstances. Where was the US government's interest in prosecuting the torturers and murderers of the Mubarak regime prior to 2 years ago? For decades your tax dollars and mine supported some of the most disgusting human rights violations on the planet. I never noticed you complaining about that.
This was in the house that's associated with bunnies.
That Destructo thing about satire was funny. Kind of (intentionally) mean, but funny.
1461: I know nothing.
My own first cousin twice removed Danny O'N___l? Sure, the Crown took him in for questioning over that ill-timed, ill-advised Fenian plot, but nobody ever turned Queen's evidence against him, and they had to let him go. He was as innocent as the day is long, and a better-looking man you couldn't hope to meet at the fair. Not that I'd know anything about that silly, sordid little episode, of course. I know nothing.
(But!: we also had some relations who fought for/with the Brits in WWI and WWII. One of them died in a British military hospital in 1917; cause of death: gas poisoning. One of them was an RCAF pilot who was shot down by the Germans, and who spent over a year as a POW in a German camp in WWII. When my dad was a kid, he heard that "the Huns" had made Uncle Danny eat "black bread" [maybe rye bread? or pumpernickel? or something like that?], which sounded like a subtle refinement on the everyday, quotidian methods of torture, which sounded like a very insult to honest and open-hearted bread-eating. My dad's family was not sophisticated, not cosmopolitan, needless to say. But Danny's brother Emmett helped liberate a camp in Holland, so.)
This was in the house that's associated with bunnies.
Just watch out for the piggies in their starched white shirts.
Haven't some types of east European black bread gone from associations with poverty to associations with national identity?
And how many more comments do we need to 1500?
How many licks to the center of a Tootsie Pop?
1479
... Where was the US government's interest in prosecuting the torturers and murderers of the Mubarak regime prior to 2 years ago? ...
Well whatever their faults they didn't bomb the world trade center.
... I never noticed you complaining about that.
I would prefer a less ambitious foreign policy as I believe I have stated on a number of occasions.
I had no idea Kaus played in Poi Dog Pondering.
1480: I'm pretty sure you've made a mistake about the setting of The House Bunny.
Well whatever their faults they didn't bomb the world trade center.
No, just, you know, obscure, inconsequential places like Laos and Cambodia.
Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes.
I can make them cuter.
The Mubarak regime bombed Laos and Cambodia?
Anya's last name is Jenkins? I didn't remember that. Seems kinda vanilla for a vengeance demon.
1497: Oh, perhaps I misunderstood that. I was confused, perhaps by James comparing a bombing that killed 6 people with decades of murders and torture etc.
This is like that Seinfeld episode where Kramer takes the test-drive car down to empty on the gas tank and just keeps on driving. Let's do this! I feel so free.
So, who wants to get naked? We're at 1505 comments?!
I'm referencing nudity because we're in the Renaissance Era of comments. Just wait 'till we get to the Enlightenment. And I think we should all let Bob handle comment 1917.
Hot damn! Naked Teo! Smell the freedom.
So it seems like there may only be two naked guys in here. Or maybe just one -- Teo, where are you going. Don't be scared, it's all natural. This party isn't going as I planned. Anyhow, FREEDOM
Just to clarify further: I think it is obscene for the US government and its apologists to advocate keeping a terribly ill activist lawyer in prison when the corrupt apparatchiks of the Mubarak regime, who forced a population of tens of millions of people to live in fear (and, for the most part, in poverty), walk around free and wealthy. This political group may well have done some things I'd disagree with, given that I don't support any kind of theocratic political tendency, but you can't begin to compare their little provocations with what the US government, the Egyptian government, and especially the Israeli government have done in that region. It's disgusting to even suggest it. Repugnant.
I dunno, man. The last time I got naked in front of someone things didn't go so well.
I don't think Nat is naked, Halford.
Halford's all alone in his sex grotto.
I'm thinking about taking a shower though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P1-Sf4PRIM&feature=youtu.be
(indulge me)
I thought you were opposed to that sort of thing.
Dancing plague!
Tot! Tot! Tot! Ich tanz' dich tot!
The bunny house's towers are probably the least Hogwartsian of all of the Harvard houses. They were built in the 60s and look it. I was a tutor at the house named for two presidents and it was scarily Hogwartsian. Worth it for the food alone.
1511
... their little provocations ...
In the mid-morning attack on 17 November 1997, six gunmen from the Islamic Group and Jihad Talaat al-Fath ("Holy War of the Vanguard of the Conquest") massacred 62 people at the attraction.[5] The six assailants were armed with automatic firearms and knives, and disguised as members of the security forces. They descended on the Temple of Hatshepsut at around 08:45. They dispatched two armed guards at the site.[5] With the tourists trapped inside the temple, the killing went on systematically for 45 minutes, during which many bodies, especially of women, were mutilated with machetes. They used both guns and butcher knives.[5] A note praising Islam was found inside one disemboweled body.[6] The dead included a five-year-old British child and four Japanese couples on their honeymoons.[7][8]
...
Organizers and supporters of the attack quickly realised that the strike had been a massive miscalculation and reacted with denials of involvement. The day after the attack, Islamic Group leader Rifai Taha claimed the attackers intended only to take the tourists hostage, despite the evidence of the immediate and systematic nature of the slaughter. Others denied Islamist involvement completely. Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman blamed Israelis for the killings, and Ayman Zawahiri maintained the attack was the work of the Egyptian police.[12][13]
Just because some group was opposed to Murbarak doesn't make them good guys.
I haven't paid attention to this thread since, like, 900. Is it worth catching up? I'm supposed to be awake and racing my friend up Twin Peaks in 7.5 hours.
I saw that Lynne Stewart link, though. That does seem pretty bullshit.
Is it worth catching up?
Probably not, actually.
Yeah, you were right. Too late now. Oops.
It's all good, big T. Pants off!
OK, but I'm going to sleep. No funny business.
I only take my pants off for a beautiful woman, Halford. Are you a beautiful woman? Now is your chance to reveal your secret.
I went to a thing in one of the undergrad houses with Blume (hosted by her old department). I wouldn't describe it as posh, but there was a flavor of genteel rot, certainly.
No, that house has fancy parts too, we were just in basically an unused function hall. (Which is why they let us use it during dinner time.)
I'm going to keep this thread on topic, you reprobates.
So the unsolved triple homicide in Waltham that they now think might be tied to Tamerlan? One of the people killed was the son of someone we know- I can guess who the unnamed "relative" is in the linked story. Even though the bodies were found a day later, people are claiming they were killed on... Sept. 11.
My own first cousin twice removed Danny O'N___l?
Was there a group of O'N____ls that stayed behind after the Battle of Ridgeway or is this a different bunch?
Apparently one of the seven people in Canada is an electrical contractor who I had never heard of until they charged two thousand dollars to my credit card. That's mysterious.
Just today or was this a while ago?
Just noticed it today. It happened last Thursday.
On April 18th, Canadians celebrate Re-Wiring Day.
I would have thought this sort of thing would generate a red flag and the credit card company would call me, but I guess they've given up trying to analyze my spending patterns. Sure, taxi in Denver one day, dinner in Boston a couple days later, electrical work in Ontario the next, whatever.
One of the other seven people in Canada tried to use my debit card to buy six hundred dollars of stuff in a Walmart in BC. That did get flagged, since I'm not a jet-setter like essear.
1532: Different bunch.
1533: That is a hassle. I wonder how they got your card number?
1531: This story gets weirder and weirder. An "unsolved triple homicide" is a bit unsettling. As for when they were killed, don't the investigators have an approximate time of death?
Presumably there are many people in Hyderabad, but one of them used CA's card (CA's unactivated card that had never left the mantle?) to buy a waterbed and a bunch of high-end audio equipment. One assumes a 3-footer was next, if he hadn't got caught.
One of the other seven people in Canada tried to use my debit card
There are only five honest people in Canada. Actually, make that four: Mr MC's card number was stolen after he bought a slice of pizza at the airport in Toronto.
Did Tamerlan celebrate the first anniversary of his brother's citizenship ceremony, and simultaneously mark his loyalty to his new nation on September 11, by killing three un-American drug dealers, the scum of the community one might call them? Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.
1539.1: There are a lot of different bunches of them.
I would have thought this sort of thing would generate a red flag and the credit card company would call me, but I guess they've given up trying to analyze my spending patterns.
My bank just calls every time I try to do something exciting. Train ticket in London, meal in NY, drink in Edinburgh - all perfectly OK. Scuba diving? Wait, this is suspicious! Normally he leads a drab, joyless existence. What's he doing suddenly going scuba diving? SOUND THE ALARMS!
I would have thought this sort of thing would generate a red flag and the credit card company would call me, but I guess they've given up trying to analyze my spending patterns.
My bank just calls every time I try to do something exciting. Train ticket in London, meal in NY, drink in Edinburgh - all perfectly OK. Scuba diving? Wait, this is suspicious! Normally he leads a drab, joyless existence. What's he doing suddenly going scuba diving? SOUND THE ALARMS!
The only thing I've ever been called about was a donation to the Red Cross.
Your bank obviously has an even lower impression of you than mine does of me.
And they don't think very highly of the Red Cross either.
My bank only calls when I'm somewhere my phone doesn't work.
Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.
Actual random murders aren't common and whoever did that one didn't take any of the drugs or money. Once it comes out that an acquaintance had a willingness to inflict that kind of violence for ideological reasons it really would be irresponsible to not speculate, at least from a police perspective.
1548 - The surveillance state in action.
1539.3- According to the article, the argument from relatives is that based on cell phone usage suddenly stopping late on the 11th that's when they were killed, the bodies weren't found until later on the 12th. I think the later bodies are found the wider the range for time of death becomes- can distinguish between 1 and 2 hours ago but not necessarily 12 and 14 hours ago.
Somehow I got on a GOP mailing list (I think it's because I registered at RedState once to comment on something there) that sends standard rightwing crap twice a day. This morning there's something about the Canadian train plot, but of course conservatives don't care about the seven people in Canada, so they emphasize that Al Qaeda was targeting a Canadian-!!!US!!! train route.
Last time my bank called was when someone tried to spend $1000 on threadless.com with my credit card. I'm still trying to figure out why anyone needs $1000 of $20 t-shirts with little potential resale value.
1549
Actual random murders aren't common and whoever did that one didn't take any of the drugs or money. ...
Unclear how you know that, it is true some drugs and money were left behind. In the US I expect drug dealers are more likely to be killed in business disputes or in the course of robberies than because of disapproval of drug dealing. Covering the bodies with drugs does sound like some sort of message was being sent.
1553: They obviously didn't need them badly enough to be willing to pay for them.
1554: I haven't heard anything that wasn't in articles. What I've read is that it was weed and that the money wasn't taken. So not a robbery and IME marijuana doesn't see that kind of violent turf dispute stuff the way the harder drugs do.
McArdle offers an intriguing opinion on the police response in Boston:
Many progressives, and especially, many libertarians, are criticizing this as an overreaction that involved immense intrusions into personal liberty. An overreaction it may have been, but I'm less worried about the liberty aspect, because as far as I can tell, compliance with the shutdown was pretty much entirely voluntary. I haven't seen any complaints about jackbooted police officers forcing people back into their homes when they tried to come out, and I have heard reports from folks who drove into the office without getting hassled. I'd imagine that most people were quite willing to stay inside for a day if that would help the police capture the marathon bombers.
As does Douthat, explaining how the police response sent a message:
The point of this kind of message is not to deter, say, the next Mohammed Atta. Rather, it's to shrink the pool of amateurs, dilettantes and potential freelancers by establishing an almost crazy-seeming level of American anti-terror resolve.
"Almost crazy-seeming." That's quite an endorsement. One gets the sense that Douthat regards "almost crazy" as the next best thing to "actually crazy."
It's "madman theory". As Nixon explained (apparently to one of the founders of this blog):
I call it the Madman Theory, Bob. I want the North Vietnamese to believe I've reached the point where I might do anything to stop the war. We'll just slip the word to them that, "for God's sake, you know Nixon is obsessed about Communism. We can't restrain him when he's angry--and he has his hand on the nuclear button" and Ho Chi Minh himself will be in Paris in two days begging for peace.
1556- And the younger brother was known to be well into weed, maybe how the brothers knew these people.
McArdle offers an intriguing opinion
Sorry, you lost me there.
My bank doesn't call me, it just stops any transaction it thinks is out of pattern, which may be even more annoying. Last year I called them and said, "I'm going to Ireland. I shall be in [town] between [date] and [date], and then travelling around the north between [date] and [date]. Can you make a note of this so my cards work."
"Oh yes," they said. "Thank you for your call, we've put a note on your account." So when I came to check out of the hotel, card declined. I had to make an international call to get it authorised. "I thought you said you'd put a note on my account," quoth I. "Oh yes, we did, " comes the reply. "I'm afraid the Fraud Department can't have looked."
Bollocks to 'em.
McMegan is just repeating what people from Boston have mostly send. Douthat can shut his fucking face, as there was nothing crazy, or crazy-seeming, about it. It was a tactical response to an extremely unusual situation.
"have mostly said". That is, I have no idea why it's intruiging that she's saying it.
||
Good thing the Boston police weren't doing business with this bastard.
|>
Once someone stole my credit card number and bought some random objects from Williams Sonoma and a subscription to Jdate.com. The timing approximately matched when a good friend met his future wife through jdate, so I've always wondered which of them it was.
I also left a credit card at a gas station once, and didn't notice for a week. The only charge was $80 at one lunchtime at McDonalds. Because if you can get away with one free meal for the whole gang, where else?
1561: Word. Maybe libertarian's dreams of privatization means their expectations for law enforcement is more like mall cops or something. Why couldn't some dudes on Segways just zoom around the neighborhoods until they found the bombers?
Maybe it was when the McRib was on offer.
Well, hey, don't get me wrong, as I said above probably fifty times at this point in the thread, if it was not an extremely unusual situation then it would not have been an appropriate response. But I think in that case more people who actually live here would have had a problem with it!
I got rolled into an email conversation with some colleagues about the failure of some of the FBI's surveillance technology in this instance and was fairly disconcerted to learn that one colleague has elaborate dreams of how well pervasive surveillance will work in the future.
The McRib isn't that unusual. I think it comes back about once a year.
1563: Well it looks like they got at least one quote from someone in on the scam.
"We know that a few of them are defective," an official at the ministry of the interior told the Guardian last month. "The other problem is how they are used. It requires the operator to be in the right frame of mind."
Fucking hospital, I knew I owed them a $100 copay for an ER visit, I wasn't asked to pay at the time, offered to pay during a later visit and they said they couldn't accept payment at that time, never received any bills, and now I got a letter that says I owe them $281.20 (I have no idea why that number, late fees?) and they say, "As you have been previously informed, this balance is your responsibility." No, I haven't been previously informed, assholes.
Anyone have a stolen card with $281.20 credit available?
Ok, 1564.1 is awesome. "All right, I got a working number! Time to date some jews and get a really high quality garlic press!"
one colleague has elaborate dreams of how well pervasive surveillance will work in the future.
And that colleague... was EINSTEIN JEREMY BENTHAM.
1571:
I just received an EOB from a hospital that said "The cost was $22,012.67. Insurance paid $800.00. You saved _____."
Hospital billing sucks.
1573: honest to god he'd probably be very pleased with that comparison.
1570. The US military said they work on the same principle as Ouija boards. Those bastards have indirectly killed hundreds of people. I hope they go down forever.
1576: They look like fancy dowsing rods.
My grandpa used to dowse for water, and it worked great. It helped that he was in the Pacific Northwest, where you can dig pretty much anywhere not obviously unsuitable and find water a few feet down.
1577: They are fancy dowsing rods.
||
NYT says Max Baucus will not run for re-election.
|>
Max Baucus
Is leaving the caucus.
If anybody cares,
They'll need a lot of new Committee Chairs.
re: 1560
Exactly the same thing happened to me when I was in Boston/Cambridge last year. I called in advance, gave them notification, and then when I arrived in the US and needed to pay for something, my card didn't work. So, length international call while I sorted it out.
1579 -- He was definitely running last week, so this is sudden. BS was born to be a senator, so we'll see how quickly he gets geared up.
Called to check on the bill, they said the balance was $100 which I agree with so I paid it. They have no idea why I got a letter saying I owe $281.20. I'm guessing I'll get a notice from a collection agency in a couple months asking for $181.20. Fucking health care system.
They have no idea why I got a letter saying I owe $281.20.
Like my recent experience where they were billing my midwife visits to my insurance and all the labs to some completely random number, which, surprise!, was rejected each time. While I was getting it all straightened out, the billing rep said she had "no idea" where they might have gotten that random number.
So last year I showed up at the emergency room in the middle of the night with a not-too-serious but nonetheless quite painful injury, and the first thing I do is give the nurse at the desk my driver's license and my insurance card. She takes my license and hands back my insurance card. "We've already got this information," she explains.
So a few weeks later I start getting bills in the mail, (bills plural, because the folks who take your x-ray evidently have to send you a separate bill from the people who evaluate your condition by looking at you and asking you questions,) and they've billed me as if I had no insurance at all. Grrr.
When new management took over our nearby hospital, we made sure they accepted our insurance. Later, they retroactively decided that they didn't accept our insurance, and billed us.
This turns out to be absurdly illegal, as we found out after a little investigation, and the hospital advised us to ignore the bill, given that the alternative was us reporting the situation to the state authorities, newspapers, etc (which we did anyway). The hospital was still apparently able to collect from people who didn't know better.
I am pretty sympathetic to civil liberties and all, but I would support insurance executives and hospital administrators being held as enemy combatants.
That's one way to encourage people to keep this thread going.
If this thread gets to 2001, are we going to go with the Sept. 11 attacks timeline, or the "My god, it's full of stars!" branch?
Foundation of Trinity College, Dublin
1592. Neither. NMM to Joey Ramone, George Harrison and John Lee Hooker.
1595. First night of Romeo and Juliet.
The only had one night, then they both died.
And if the claim goes to court I'll use this thread as evidence and make them print out the whole thing, and news reports will talk about "thousands of pages of blog comments."
George Harrison's been dead for a few years, but no way he died in 1594.
As for John Lee Hooker, old bluesmen never die; they just don't wake up this morning.
I may be pwned, but at least my typo is unique.
I did 95 miles of biking-for-exercise this week (not counting commuting, &c.), which is almost like taking steps towards having a career and a sense of self-worth!
Prime numbers are topical because of the surveillance state and so we all need better encryption?
which is almost like taking steps towards having a career and a sense of self-worth!
I don't think you can have both.
540 calories' worth of dried mango, and 30 oz. of cold-brewed coffee: the breakfast of champions.
I have a really good feeling about how the next thirty years are going to go.
The breakfast of people who spend much of their morning in the shitter.
Weight in grams of the typical dropping from Przewalski's horse, recently reintroduced into the wild in Mongolia.
Weight in grams of the typical dropping from Przewalski's horse if the horse swallowed a paper clip a few hours prior.
I'm going to have to wait a few days to post the obvious followup, "Weight in grams of the typical dropping from Przewalski's horse if fed on dried mango and cold-brewed coffee".
Weight in ounces of the typical dropping from Przewalski's horse if fed on dried mango and cold-brewed coffee.
To pwn your enemies, hear the lamentation of the lurkers in email, and use their womenfolk to warm your bed: that is best in life.
The preceding joke brought to you by ajay and the Society for the Use of Normal Units of Measurement for the Study of Bowel Movements.
Actually, on rereading the timestamps that may not be a legitimate pwn after all. I ban myself.
the Society for the Use of Normal Units of Measurement for the Study of Bowel Movements.
Normal units to be used in this context:
grams
centimeters
minutes
degrees Kelvin
Abnormal units:
candlepower
becquerel
tesla
newton-second
grams
centimeters
minutes
degrees Kelvin
Burma Shave
Also:
Wales: unit of measurement for substantial land areas
Whales (blue): unit of measurement for very large mahinery (and dinosaurs)
If the bowel movements of your Przewalski's horse contain Burma-Shave, consult a veterinarian immediately.
Is your horse a
Przewalskian?
That depends on
Who is askin'.
Burma Shave
Big news in the Thirty Years War you guys. Sweden barges into Munich, then gets kicked out of Nuremberg. When will it end? #bringthemhome
The All New SI Units of Measurement and the All New SI Units of Work
That all sounds absolutely frightful. I'm so glad we're safe from that sort of horrendous bloodshed here in Britain.
Given that this is going to be the last unfogged thread, we should probably talk about food, no? (We've already done meta, bicycles, sex, and wordplay.)
I had a nice experience with our insurance. They'd denied shiv's pertussis booster on the grounds that the patient age was wrong. So I called to figure out how I should appeal the claim, and the woman on the phone looked it over and said that it was obviously their recording error, and that she'd fix it. Nothing for me to do, and we had the reimbursement check in the mail two days later.
I can't tell if I just got pwned. I think so.
Anyway, how many cocks does it take to screw in a lightbulb? (cock joke)
1597: At the moment, it would just be 129 pages printed out.
I had a nice experience with our insurance.
They have trained us well. When they fuck up something, we describe it as a nice experience if they fix it.
Yes but like an email thread, for every new comment you have to reprint every previous comment.
how many cocks does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Do NOT put your cock in a light bulb. Cuts from broken glass are painful, and your insurance is unlikely to cover this sort of injury.
1643. How do you know? Did you print it to pdf or something?
1645: True. And then with the same size and margins as in formally engrossed legislation (as with Obamacare).
1643: No, when I press Ctrl+P Chrome tells me how many pages it would be.
Monarchy abolished in England by Act of Parliament. Puritans ftw!
Now we've made Charles linger in the Tower for an extra year. We are like unto gods!
1649. It tells me it's 118 pages. Do Americans use smaller paper or something? Seems uncharacteristic.
This Eurocentric, anglo-centric chronology is typical. Typical!
1653 It's taking a while to reload. D-Day will be in about 1952 at this rate.
American-sized paper is different, I think.
Do Americans use smaller paper or something?
A sheet of America paper is about .0000000000003 Wales in area.
1653: Actually it looks like yes - A4 is 29.7 by 21 cm, whereas our primitive 8.5"x11" works out to 27.9 by 21.6 cm.
London is about to burn. Also, plague.
*Buries cheese in garden*
Annals of unjust memework: only one of the first 25 hits for "Buries cheese in garden" mention that Sir William Penn also buried his cheese in the garden during the GFoL. Yay Pepys.
*Buries cheese in garden*
Wait, that's not a euphemism?
1655 > 1652
Now we're just posting mathematical identities?
ZOMG, they're going to close a bunch of streets in Cambridge for half the day tomorrow for the officer's funeral. Martial law! Creeping tyranny! I bet a lot of the people there will be recorded too!
SP really has the pulse of 1671.
I've never felt so needed. I'll try to get a new thread up.
What? Why? The 18th century has a lot to offer.
We should close the thread at comment 2013, which will be about unconfirmed reports of an explosion of some sort near the finish line of the Boston Marathon. Then the thread could be made into an endless loop.
In 1671 recording consisted of a bunch of painters sitting along the street behind their canvases.
I've never felt so needed
Yeah, forget the whole helpless newborn thing, we have a thread approaching 1700.
I'll try to get a new thread up.
Nooooo this one is doing fine.
Cambridge Police announced road closures beginning before AM rush hour Wednesday, Apr. 24 for the memorial service of MIT Officer Sean Collier. This service is only open to members of law enforcement and the MIT community with valid MIT IdsID cards! Papers please, Citizen!
Between the Westboro Baptists and the press, I don't blame them one bit.
Look! A comet! Wonder if it'll come back.
Why don't we do this with every thread? I guess the short ones would get too Christian-y.
Oh man, the Westies are going to be just down the street from me? I need to think of a good joke to play on them.
We could do BC dates on the short threads.
Damn, it's been cold for the past hundred years or so. Hope it warms up soon.
I think something glorious is about to happen
Meanwhile, you Bostonian pussies cower in your homes! Without AR-15s! Teh tyranny!
The Bostonians are revolting!
1684: pepper-spraying people in the face is a gag that's pretty popular around here.
1689- come on, no attacks on people's appearance, there was enough attacking Sifu up thread.
1691: What are you, a shill for Sir Edmund Andros?
1684: I think they decided to stay away, but they were going to go to the bombing victim funerals.
Productive years for Cotton Mather and also the Bernoulli brothers.
It occurs to me that I have no idea if I got the year right on that. And now I've robbed 1697 of its moment in the sun. I'm history's greatest monster.
Cotton Mather wisely decided to allow vaccination against smallpox in his colony despite those who said it was playing God. Sadly Queen Mary not vaccinated.
I was looking for more facts but then got distracted reading about Ruthenian. Probably nothing much happened this year.
1698: He had his house burned down by Old Skool anti-vaxxers.
I didn't get 1701 until 1704 made me look again.
And then I ruined the chances of somebody else to make a Battle of Turin joke.
This year we have heard the death knell of a great empire, the Mughals, and seen the first flowering of two even greater empires: Scotland has conquered its decaying neighbor to the south, and Sweden is soon to conquer Russia.
1707: oh I hate when that happens.
||
Charges have been dropped against Gosnell in three of the seven murder cases, apparently on the grounds that the infants were not actually "born alive."
|>
1709: You bastard.
Hey what if we all started wearing goggles and flying around in Zeppelins and shit instead of listening to Sisters of Mercy?
The Sisters of Mercy didn't start until 1831.
Nas, It Aint Hard to Tell.
This is the year that Richelieu so unfortunately and suddenly lost his virginity. If only his cousin had never made that bet.
Ah, roads closed and memorial is not open to the public because Biker Biden is coming to town.
Yeah. That's going to be annoying for people who, like, drive places.
Who drives anywhere in this city? I'll give you a ride in my bucket.
I just went to the weirdest talk. It had the form "here's a really stupid thing a bunch of people said in papers. You all get why it's obviously wrong, right? Like, really obviously. Okay, good. Let me now bore you with an hour of tedious details of boring calculations I did to try to convince the stupid people they were wrong."
"And the name of this common error is the Aristocrats!"
Like, as stupid as ranch dressing.
(It turns out to be really entertaining to skim all the uses of the word "stupid" in this thread.)
Man, that was some egregious fishing I just did in this data. Found something significant, though!
BREAKING: earthquake! Twitter reports Cotton Mather will have a statement shortly.
1727?!?! You people have been slacking.
Our tweets are being delivered with the latest post but the roads are muddy from the spring thaw.
George Washington born, at the time.
Somebody was really serious about making sure 18th century events in North Carolina history are not overlooked by casual wikipedestrians.
Crap. 1732 should be 1731. 1732 should be George Washington born, in retrospect. Would have been not very witty, but it's even less witty with the numbers off.
Who is this Jean de Crévecoeur, this newly-born man?
I daresay, Jenkins, perhaps you should sit this next voyage out.
Robot George Washington was born in 1731.
He had thirty goddamn whirling dick-knives.
SAY HELLO TO PAAMIUT/DON'T CALL ME FREDERIKSHAAB
Now we will strike each other in an orderly fashion!
I thought you'd be into the 19th century by now, guys. I've got some cool stuff ready!
Everybody is waiting for somebody else to bring this into the 19th century. Be the change you want to see in the world.
Jacobite Risings - the first time jack-o'-lanterns were consumed after rising as a pie in the oven.
We will treat your burning junk!
Oh, you aren't just slipping off the front page like that, Mr. Thread. Not before the 1750s.
Britain got Madras and the thread got back on the sidebar.
Hooray! Start a hospital, Franklin! It's time to celebrate!
No more orderly but florid masturbating to Bach.
Agh, I missed.
Maybe if the masturbation was less florid the aim would be better.
Dear Mr. Washington,
I advise you to be very careful when you go out to patrol the woods with your Iroquois allies. They and the French don't get along.
Sincerely, the future
This is the thread that never ends...
It just goes on and on my friends...
Heebie went and posted it not knowing what it was,
Now we'll all be commenting forever just because...
I have seen the Last Judgment!
There will be other Bachs.
J.C., C.P.E., P.D.Q., and Barbara.
How are we going to pay for this war? I know, stamps!
James Watt invents the steampunk. Or something.
I thought the Stamp Act was 1765. Christ, I'm a shitty historian.
Sorry we took so long to pass the Stamp Act. We deliberated a lot as kids.
Breaking 1775 news: gunshots in Lexington and Concord.
Let us inquire into the nature and causes of the wealth of nations.
We shall be greeted as liberators, with sweets and flowers.
APOTHEOSIS ISN'T ALL IT'S CRACKED UP TO BE.
Goddamn it. Sorry, 1778. Sorry, Captain Cook.
Hey Maryland, ratify, dude. It's not like you'll have a strong central government.
The 19th century is so far away still.
Who the fuck is Peter Gaggle and why is he on this wikipedia page with no link?
Searching for that name as a phrase is a good way to discover all the many places that copy and repost wikipedia content. Most aren't worth finding, though.
Apparently Answers.com is not respecting copyright or whatever.
You're still here? It's over. Go home.
Au contraire - a new humanity begins!
I do enjoy my locksmithing. What?
Why is there no monarch named Simon XVI?
The hapless orphan; or, Innocent victim of revenge, a novel founded on incidents in real life in a series of letters from Caroline Francis to Maria B---
Published: Dublin, Printed for P. Wogan, [etc.] 1795.
Travels before the flood. An interesting oriental record of men and manners in the antidiluvian world, interpreted in fourteen evening conversations between the caliph of Bagdad & his court. Tr. from the Arabic.
Published: London, Printed for G. G. & J. Robinson, 1796.
A third letter to a member of the present parliament, on the proposals for peace with the regicide directory of France
An excursion to the United States of North America, in the summer of 1794. Embellished with the profile of General Washington, and an aqua-tinta view of the Statehouse at Philadelphia.
Published: Salisbury, J. Easton [etc.] 1798.
"Lichtenberg was prone to procrastination. He failed to launch the first ever hydrogen balloon, and although he always dreamed of writing a novel à la Fielding's Tom Jones, he never finished more than a few pages. He died at the age of 56, after a short illness."
RIP
NMM
A new century, filled with opportunities to kick Hamilton's ass.
Come on. Irish Parliament abolished.
I'm still sulking because I wanted to post "Ajay's great-great-great-granduncle defeated at Battle of Pyramids by General Bonaparte" but bloody Henry Wansey got in first.
Oh well. Haitian rebels knock seven shades of shit out of the French at Vertieres, winning their independence from France, and the French have never forgiven them for it.
NMM to Horatio, Lord Nelson! (Though a quick kiss is definitely still OK, Hardy, if you're reading this.)
Sir, you'll have to spell out "Nelson" and "confides" but "England" and "expects" are in the codebook.
At this point, historical records show, the Royal Navy was almost entirely made up of fictional dashing and enterprising frigate captains and their devotedly loyal fictional first lieutenants. Real captains were put at a distinct disadvantage; not only do fictional captains have first call on all particularly dangerous or daring missions, they also tend to get promoted much more quickly and have better luck with the ladies. Commander James Raikes, the (non-fictional) commander of the 32-gun frigate HMS Alcyon, wrote to his sister in August this year:
"... crew impatient and afire to be at sea once more with the Fleet but alas, I have receiv'd news this day that Aubrey, Sir R. Bolitho, H. Hornblower and the rest of the fictional cabal have once more forestall'd us, and we must again convoy the east coast colliers from Hartlepool while they sail to the West Indies, the Ionian, the Cape &c. Without some scribbler or other on my side I do not know how I am to achieve preferment, and as for prise money I have altogether given up hope. "
I recommend that Commander Raikes take his sorrows to the first Indian restaurant in Britain, which has opened this year but is doing disappointingly slow business.
Well, no wonder. An Indian coffee house? India not well known for its coffee.
What is this world, O Soldiers?
It is I.
I, this incessant snow,
This northern sky.
Burma Shave.
181 - Maybe they spent all their marketing money on sign painters.
London houses destroyed by flood of beer. Several fatalities.
Waterloo. "Hard pounding, gentlemen; we shall see who can pound the longest." IYKWIM.
The long road to The Rabbit of Seville begins.
Frankenstein written. For the first time, novel readers confront the terrifying spectacle of a very tall yellow man who roams around the forest reading "The Sorrows of Young Werther" and indulging in self-improvement, alpinism, and light recreational stalking.
Oh, great, now freakin' Pensacola's part of the US.
"The Era of Good Feeling." Sure, that's what the men called it, but ask yourself: if you were a woman, would you want to be relentlessly groped by James Monroe? Good for who?
NOT FOR US, THAT'S FOR DAMN SURE.
THIS PLACE SUCKS. I'M OUT.
Sure, that's what the men called it, but ask yourself: if you were a woman, would you want to be relentlessly groped by James Monroe Bill Clinton? Good for who?
FTFY
Birth of Harry Paget Flashman. Ladies, start your engines.
HE'LL JUST HAVE TO WAIT HIS TURN THEN.
We gotta admit we do not have a great feeling about this election.
The earlier ones worked out so well for you?
You know what'll work out really well for France? Another revolution!!
Because of that revolution in France, news of Weishaupt's death did not reach some people soon enough.
To 1807. Slavery abolished (in some countries)!
Also, Mr Babbage has met a Lady Ada Lovelace, but I don't expect muh will come of it.
One hates to burn an entry with the meta, but has it really been 130 years since a woman commented on this thread?
I got married, if that helps.
I'm waiting for 1848.
How do you expect us to take seriously a war named the "Pastry War"???
The Central American Federation is falling apart! This means many new capitals and flags for trivia fans.
The teenage Victoria Saxe-Coburg begins her quest to TAKE OVER THE WORLD assisted only by her loyal retainers, her exotic foreign husband and her dragons immensely powerful navy.
Damn. I was distracted by an ill-advised military expedition to Afghanistan.
Great. Now I'll never know what Victoria Saxe-Coburg had.
1846: This should go up the in thread where people are talking about moving the Bay Area.
People are talking about moving the Bay Area? How, and where?
NMM to the ancien regime in Europe! A new spring of freedom and democracy! Away with the corrupt monarchy and long live the republics!
Only a few years left to protect Old California with my gay blade.
1849: Just two people, but I think they should factor in the risk of cannibalism. See the housing thread.
Ay caramba! Dios mio they have acted too quickly!
Well, time for another ill-judged military expedition! At least this one will involve knitwear.
Hey, we have a library. Hopefully no bombs ever go off next to it.
Hey, there's no more gold in them thar hills.
Tensions were rising. The ties that had bonded the union together seemed to be fraying under the weight of sectional distrust. Everywhere, the most radical and least inclined to compromise seemed to be in the ascendancy. Also we are most definitely not going to be talking about people totally fucking their slaves.
A thread divided against itself cannot stand!
Kingdom of Italy proclaimed! Anything else? Nah.
"That on the first day of January, in the comment of our thread one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, all persons held as lurkers within any Post or designated part of a Post, the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the Front-Page Commenters, shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free; and the Executive Government of Unfogged, including the military and naval authority thereof, will recognize and maintain the freedom of such persons, and will do no act or acts to repress such persons, or any of them, in any efforts they may make for their actual freedom."
Le 24 mai 1863, un dimanche, mon oncle, le professeur Lidenbrock, revint précipitamment vers sa petite maison située au numéro 19 de Königstrasse, l'une des plus anciennes rues du vieux quartier de Hambourg.
Hey look, somebody made this carpet into a bag! Nifty!
What is this all-permeating fluid, Vril-ya? It's wonderful! I will return to the surface and start theosophy!
1871: You know what the absolutely best thing about that is? It gave rise to a brand name for beef bullion concentrate -- the "Vril" in Bovril comes from the Bulwer-Lytton novel. It makes jars of sticky brown gunk just that little bit more thrilling.
No fair; commentary on 1871 used up my slot!
1872: that's an awesome thing about it for sure but the wikipedia page is full of goodness.
YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE IS FULL OF GOODNESS?
You don't know what long is.
||
Oh, this thread doesn't look like it's having trouble getting to 2000, but, on the OP: I almost feel fondly nostalgic about the fact that the Boston Herald remains, still after all these years, right-leaning and sensationalistic, shrieky even:
Marathon bombings mastermind Tamerlan Tsarnaev was living on taxpayer-funded state welfare benefits even as he was delving deep into the world of radical anti-American Islamism, the Herald has learned.
Taxpayer-funded! OMG!
(In other newspaper related news, I find myself fussing a bit about the Koch brothers' bid to acquire the Tribune papers. Hrm.)
|>
Sorry, that was last year's news.
NMM to Longfellow. You know who you are.
1879- it is a sad day when pause-play is required to respond to the OP. Anyway, I can one up that- I mentioned @1552 that I get this daily puke-funnel dispatch, I saw a story Limousine liberals and terror and wanting a good laugh I clicked through. They're not even trying to hide the racism any more:
For instance, did you know Mrs. Tsarnaev has an outstanding criminal warrant against her? The mother defaulted last October on charges of larceny and malicious destruction of property resulting from a June 2012 shoplifting arrest at Lord & Taylor at the Natick Mall. As George W. Bush would say, she was only shoplifting the dresses Americans don't want to shoplift. All dresses, by the way, not a single hajib or burka -- $1,624 worth of dresses, $1,016 in "damaged stolen items" and $328 in "damaged items."
Oops, left off the next sentence- sorry for ruining the late 19th century:
I thought she was a devoted mom, a devout Muslim. Doesn't sharia law called for thieves to have a hand chopped off?
Also on topic, there are strange details coming out in follow-up stories, like the younger brother didn't have a gun in the boat with him- but there are videos of people watching a gunfight out their window. Were the cops just shooting at each other and they didn't know it?
1886: I was always pretty suspicious of the idea that he shot back at them from the boat. I wonder if they just weren't on a hair trigger and, well, see previous.
And of course, once one person shoots by mistake, then all the other police actually did hear gunfire, and are reasonably mistaken in thinking someone's shooting at them.
As George W. Bush would say, she was only shoplifting the dresses Americans don't want to shoplift.
???
Not to stand up GWB, but why exactly would he say something like that? Did he say something similar to that?
I'm trying to work through the logic of this statement. So if she stole dresses that Americans wouldn't even want to shoplift, they must have been some pretty shitty dresses. So not exactly flying off the racks. Lord & Taylor were probably better off being able to write the dresses off as a loss.
All dresses, by the way, not a single hajib or burka
That is weird, 'cause the last time I was at Lord & Taylor I couldn't help but notice that they had a really fabulous selection of burqas.
That's a little anti-immigrant reference they're throwing in, although I'm not sure GWB said it, about how immigrants are just doing the jobs Americans don't want to do. I thought it was McCain who said that when he offered people $50/hour to pick lettuce.
1889: I think it's a reference to this:
We have a situation in our own neighborhood where their wage disparities are huge and there are jobs in America that people won't do. That's just a fact. I met an onion grower today at the airport when I arrived and he said, "You've got to help me find people that'll pull onions," or pluck them, or whatever you do with them, you know.
There are jobs that just simply aren't getting done because Americans won't do them. And yet, if you're making 50 cents an hour in Mexico and you can make a lot more in America and you've got mouths to feed, you're going come and try to find the work.
Really, at this point, the typical hard-core GOP activist is mostly speaking in code that the rest of the world can't understand- someone (Atrios?) made that point a few months ago. Benghazi Chappaquiddick Burqa Sharia!
Were the cops just shooting at each other and they didn't know it?
More likely that he didn't immediately do what he was told. A suspect who's already shot a couple cops isn't getting any latitude. If he gets an order to show his hands and he starts moving around doing something other than showing some empty hands then he's likely going to get shot right away.
|| This account of the death of Abdulrahman al Awlaki is totally worth taking the time to read. If, you know, you feel like yelling at your computer. |>
I've now spent more than four hours waiting at home for UPS to deliver the replacement to the credit card stolen by Canadians. What's the latest they ever deliver? There was no note on the door so presumably they didn't come by earlier. Tomorrow I'm leaving town, so it'll be a pain if they don't show up.
the credit card stolen by Canadians.
Hey, don't look at me; that was my brother, eh.
UPS sometimes delivers here as late as 8 or even 8:30, essear.
That said, call the credit card company and have them track the package.
They gave me a tracking number, it just says it's out for delivery and scheduled by 3 PM.
You can still call the credit card company and ask them to sort it out. Or you can call UPS. Or you can walk the streets and kill the first Canadian you see (they all carry maple donuts).
Or you can walk the streets and kill the first Canadian you see
Finally, America is waking up. Wake up, America!
If you call UPS and get a person, they can radio the truck.
It might take them 17 years or so.
Whee, shiny new credit card arrived. Now I can finally get off my couch and go to the grocery store, since it's too late to join the dinner with a seminar speaker I was wanting to attend.
Oops, sorry Einstein, I guess I should have mentioned some stuff that happened in 1905.
You could also call UPS and ask them to deliver the package to another (on-the-road) address. If they don't deliver it to your home address by tonight, I mean.
More than 100 years from now, at the bottom of a thread that most people will be far too bored to read, a handsome, virile man named Robert Halford will accurately describe what happened during the next several years in terms of great power rivalries. Also a person named "Moby Hick" will be making arguments that are objectively totally and completely wrong. I am a voice of this time period so therefore I have conclusively resolved their future argument. By the way, their future conversation will in no way resemble a debate between two bored-at-work dudes pretending to control world empires.
Opinionated Accurate Voice of This Time Period sucks balls.
If the people can't win their rights when they are armed, how will they do so once they are disarmed and helpless.
Via Zapatos.
You just fucked with the wrong Mexican reference?
The relentless aggression and absurdly incompetent foreign policy of Imperial Germany results in the U.S. entering the war against it despite not giving a rat's ass three years prior.
When we hit 2000, is that Y2K thing finally going to happen?
This started out as freedom, and has ended up as enduring torture as the years go on and on.
Will the thread be killed by Spanish Influenza?
We'll have to let women vote on that.
Successful shopkeeper Adolf Hitler among the thousands of innocent people killed by Belgian sleeper cells in terrorist attacks across victorious Germany.
25% of the world's population! Woot! It is going to be clear sailing from here, boy.
F. Scott Fitzgerald and Dorothy Parker are dressed as flappers and doing the Charleston on the floor of the stock exchange surrounded by bales of worthless German money and the head of the Klu Klux Klan.
It is not enough that I am born. Others must die.
NMM to Eugene Debs. I'm looking at you, Wobblies.
Dave Matthews Band releases "Crash", wreaking havoc on Wall Street.
Bela Lugosi's Dead Newly Famous!
Brother, can you spare a dime?
I got this one, bros. Give me ten years and an excuse to build a lot of tanks.
Bringing together threads, a few years late: I loved this exhibit on American paintings in 1934.
No kidding. That's old news.
Happy birthday to Diana of Themyscira.
Welcome to France, Mr. Spielberg.
Welcome to the Milwaukee Radio Shack, Mr. Hitler.
Bienvenidos a México, Señor Spielbérgo.
Welcome to Fresh Kills Landfill, Mr. Trash.
We didn't start the fire, it's all Billy Joel's fault.
While unnoticed at the time, events were set in motion in this year that would lead to the extinction of all life on Earth.
events were set in motion in this year that would lead to the extinction of all life on Earth.
My existence will not necessarily lead to the extinction of all life on earth, although sometimes that looks like the best outcome.
Have we at long last no decency, sir?
re: 1958
I thought it was recorded in 49/50 and released in 57?
The wind of change is blowing through this continent. Whether we like it or not, this growth of national consciousness is a political fact.
The music died last year but ttaM had to be Citnadep.
It's been a hard day's night ...
It's the 50th anniversary of Germany's unprovoked invasion of Belgium.
It's the current season already? Dammit, Joan!
I recently deleted Mad Men from the list of things my DVR records after realizing I wasn't really enjoying it at all anymore.
Maybe your DVR was enjoying watching it.
Ooh, I'm just in time for the drive for 2000
Oh, and MH bogarted my birth year. Fucker.
||
This is mildly fascinating, although nothing to do with the 1970s.
|>
Youngsters always get the numbering off.
Shit's loading slowly, here in the year after the Queen's Jubilee.
It's allegedly morning in America.
It's been two years. Why won't Jodie call?
1982 to 1980 but now I've eaten more of the '80s.
Little roller up behind first, it's...behind the bag!
Should've been a spoiler alert on that one.
This was the last year of my life in which I could plausibly claim to understand calculus.
Senior Prom! Graduation! Freshman Orientation! Still Dating My HS GF For Some Reason!
Just 21 years from formulating a plan to disrupt Moby's internet access.
Sorry. Did I just mess with your timing again?
Are there four stupid years left or three?
Jesus Still Fucking Christ; Wired Magazine Blamed.
Have you heard of these things called "blogs"? I think they're about to take off.
Why did I move to this tiny, cold town?
Anybody want to buy a house? Cheap.
I can't believe the sequel got its own entry but the original didn't.
I can't believe I don't have more competition to bring this to the present.
BREAKING NEWS: We're getting unconfirmed reports of an explosion of some sort near the finish line of the Boston Marathon.
