Re: Insomnia

1

I'm really grateful to you for rebranding this as "cat-napping all night long." I only have to get up four to six times on a normal night and it really isn't impacting me badly, but I don't even know how to end this sentence to say what I want to say. (We were stuck in traffic last night and the DJ introduced that Katy Perry song as "And now a song where she annoyingly overpronounces EVERY SINGLE SYLLABLE" and it really is awful.)


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 9:52 AM
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I'm entirely convinced it's at least a trigger for PPD.

I found that I could deal once we got to a point of waking up, eating, and then going back to sleep. It's the waking, hanging out for three hours being inconsolably tired but not sleeping, then sleeping, that drove me crazy.

The Calabat's a ridiculously good sleeper and I'm still exhausted all the time.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 11:35 AM
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Insomnia combined with dreams about animals might be an early indicator of Alzheimer's risk.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 11:50 AM
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Now that this research is out, I wonder if I can use it in my on-again, off-again campaign to get my spouse, who both sleeps poorly and is depressed (and has been on meds for the latter for years) to go back to using their CPAP, which they tried and abandoned due to relatively minor annoyances.


Posted by: Millard Fillmore | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 12:15 PM
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Unfortunately for my plan, the article (and study) seem to have been about insomnia, rather than apnea or more generalized sleep issues.


Posted by: Millard Fillmore | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 12:33 PM
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I probably need a CPAP machine but I can't deal.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 1:03 PM
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4: There are also known links between apnea and depression as well. So, its not just insomnia. Perhaps there are different interfaces which your spouse would like better. Might be worth following up with the specialist and detailing what the annoyances were.


Posted by: Rance | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 1:58 PM
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Yay, Rance!

Now can we assume Millard was Bave gaslighting Smearcase into getting a CPAP machine? This blog is not nearly sordid enough these days.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 2:01 PM
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8.2: I was thinking that too.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 2:04 PM
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Oh, I have bitched here before about the doctor who sneeringly told me "lack of sleep doesn't make people this weepy" and then called a shrink to arrange an EMERGENCY APPOINTMENT and the shrink prescribed obscene doses of sleeping pills and they only relented and did a blood test to pacify me when I threw a weepy fit and lo the entire problem was an incredibly easy to resolve thyroid issue. Why yes. I AM still angry.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 2:58 PM
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UNG solved his apnea through surgery and was able to abandon the CPAP, fwiw.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 3:02 PM
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I might look into a dental device before surgery. My understanding is that often times most kinds of apnea surgery aren't that effective (but can be certainly); best surgery is the kind where they have to break your jaw and reconstruct your face. Painful, and then you need braces (which are not covered by insurance). Sometimes the other kind (roto-rootering your throat) will get rid of snoring, but not always the stopping breathing part.


Posted by: Rance | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 3:31 PM
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12 - dental devices typically work best in milder cases, fwiw.


Posted by: Rance | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 3:31 PM
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8.2: No! I am too busy gaslighting myself at work.


Posted by: Bave | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 3:39 PM
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best surgery is the kind where they have to break your jaw and reconstruct your face. Painful, and then you need braces

I agree that it would have been better to break UNG's jaw and reconstruct his face. But he just had them remove his tonsils, adenoids, and scrape his soft palate.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 3:47 PM
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10: That is terrifying. I need to stop reading the news because there are too many articles lately where they decide a pregnant woman has issues (drugs, mental) and they force her to have the baby/take away the baby. It has me super paranoid. E.g. I thought I had miscarried so I had a few beers, but surprise I didn't miscarry! And I was a bit scared to tell the nice nurse about it. Fortunately she laughed at me and said to calm down about a few stupid beers.


Posted by: LizSpigot | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 6:22 PM
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As discussed at the P'burgh meetup, I go for CPAP fitting on December 18th. See how that goes. My sleep habits suck in general*. Last night 6:30 to 4:00 AM after 2 nights with just a few hours each...

My wife is trying to ban the phone from bed, since I wake up in the middle of the night and read stuff and then am all Tourettzian anger tics and wake her up.

*I think I killed them for good in late 90s when I had kids, a very demanding few years of work with long hours and stress, and an online Age of Empires (Rise of Rome) jones.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 6:55 PM
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best surgery is the kind where they have to break your jaw and reconstruct your face

I really expected this comment to be from Halford.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 7:10 PM
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This thread reminds me that I should go to sleep soon.

Also, hooray for continuing carrying.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 7:16 PM
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16: You will be super awesome, beer or no beer. Babies can grow up totally amazing despite lots of non-optimal starts. Mara is getting her first local birding guide for Xmas. (Nia is getting a tree guide since Mara knows more already.)


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 8:08 PM
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19: It was quite a surprise at the first appointment. I was expecting a baby the size of a cherry and it was the size of a nectarine. P.S. they think it's a girl!

20: Thanks! I'm very excited about Mara's birding guide. There's a well-known birder who told the best story about how he would read bird guides to his grand daughter instead of kid books. One day they were walking outside and she started naming all the birds.


Posted by: LizSpigot | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 8:36 PM
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21: My mom mostly read me the Burpee's plant catalogue, but we did bird guides too. So far Mara is the child most likely to grow up like me. The other two should do better.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 9:01 PM
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Aw. Congrats, Liz!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 9:08 PM
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the Burpee's plant catalogue

GET DOWN RHODODENDRON AND GIVE ME 20 GOOD ONES. COME ON FULL EXTENSION ON THE JUMP.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 9:29 PM
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23: Thanks! I'm really excited.


Posted by: LizSpigot | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 9:59 PM
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26

So is this complete bullshit or actually something based in reality?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 12- 4-13 10:02 PM
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I found that I could deal once we got to a point of waking up, eating, and then going back to sleep.

One can indeed manage on no more than an hour's sleep at a time (say three hours on, one off) for very long periods. I think I've mentioned before the guy who, halfway through recruit training, said to me thoughtfully, "You know, this is probably terrific training for fatherhood. I finally manage to get my head down for half an hour, then I get woken up by some little fat guy screaming at me and I have to get up and clean something."

(He now has two daughters, and, he says, the experience was very similar.)


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 2:41 AM
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16: I had those nightmares, too, especially given the adoption mania in Utah. But no one stole my baby, even though I don't have a temple recommend!

Congrats!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 7:08 AM
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Meanwhile, if you've got a stinking cold and sinus pain, don't wait until 6am to take painkillers. This is today's beautiful thought.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 8:25 AM
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Obviously 24 is exactly what I thought of, too.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 8:27 AM
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This "burpee" exercise thing was invented about three years ago by Crossfit people, right? I refuse to believe that, rather than the seed catalogue, to be the default meaning of the word.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 8:31 AM
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No, I had to do them in grade school in the seventies.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 8:51 AM
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Yeah, I'd done them before, too. But not 75 RAWR like I did yesterday morning. Now my knees are bruised.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 8:55 AM
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26: Appears to be utter crap. Though perhaps would be useful to a person who likes to wear an eye mask and have sounds playing as they try and fall asleep. I'm dubious about their claims that they can impact and synchronize brain wave activity by embedding certain frequencies into the sounds that they are playing. Plus, it comes from Cornfield Electronics, which just sounds suspicious.


Posted by: Rance | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 9:29 AM
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17: JP - you should keep your phone out of bed. No need to all ire yourself up during the night. There's plenty of time to get pissed off at things during the day. It will not help falling back to sleep, that's for sure. Plus, extra light levels close to the eyes aren't great either (anti-sleep promoter). And, good luck with your CPAP fitting!


Posted by: Rance | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 9:32 AM
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34: why does it appear to be utter crap? I don't know that the literature on synchronizing alpha waves or whatever is the least goofy thing in the world, and I'm also not at all sure that synchronizing alpha waves to something in your headphones is actually going to be restful in any meaningful way, but if it's obvious bullshit to say that it works at all I'd be curious why that is.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 9:43 AM
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35: No reason to use a phone in bed. Get a tablet or iPad.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 9:49 AM
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As I found out at the Pittsburgh meet-up, Rance is an awesome sleep expert, so everyone should do what he says.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 9:57 AM
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Also, I am an awesome HTML failure.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 9:58 AM
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36: Their explanation is lacking. There are just a few published reports of EEG biofeedback being useful (mostly in terms of subjective ratings, for some people also showing objective differences in sleep recordings). These are trying to induce theta activity (the frequency as people just start falling asleep) or spindle frequency (12-14 Hz). In the case of biofeedback, you're telling people when they actually produce said frequency. As far as I can tell with this mask, you're getting these frequencies somehow embedded in the sound, but its not at all obvious this would translate into similar frequencies in the users brain activity.


Posted by: Rance | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 10:21 AM
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My husband's CPAP was delivered yesterday. But he hasn't tried it out yet.


Posted by: J, Robot | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 10:27 AM
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I've heard that one can sometimes "wake" someone into lucid dreaming by playing for them a signal once they are in REM. Is this what their product does? I haven't read the site.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 10:36 AM
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35: 17: JP - you should keep your phone out of bed.

Have you been talking to my wife? You are both *right* of course...

It's on the bedstand because I use it as an alarm, and only recently have I begun picking it up and reading it. I think I will try putting it on the other side of the room.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 10:38 AM
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42- You are correct. If you signal to someone when they are in REM sleep, it can help to induce a lucid dreaming episode. This product has a Lucid Dreaming version, but there are better products on the market for this purpose. According to their User's Manual, this device does not detect REM sleep. It simply waits 4 hours, and then every 20 minutes presents some lights or some sounds. So, you're hoping this coincides with a REM period. It makes sense to wait 4 hours, as you'll have a higher probability of actually hitting a REM period. Although normal sleepers go into REM sleep every 90 to 110 minutes on average throughout the night, the episodes get longer and longer as the night goes on.


Posted by: Rance | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 10:58 AM
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I have not been talking to your wife. But it really is best to read something neutral in low light conditions. Email and the internet can get people's minds too jazzed up. Moving your phone across the room is a good idea (or getting a separate alarm clock, of course).


Posted by: Rance | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 11:00 AM
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I accidentally spilled some methylene blue on my finger the other day and I had crazy dreams that night (memorable, and several different scenarios.) It's been reported as a nootropic but I don't really want to confirm the finding by trying again because who knows what else it's doing- crazy dye molecule.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 11:03 AM
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I first read 46 as methylamine, and was wondering if you trying to make Heisenburg-grade meth.


Posted by: Rance | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 11:13 AM
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Wondering or hoping?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 5-13 11:17 AM
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I'm picking a dead thread to bitch aimlessly about the utter futility of relationships. Of course, one might rightly note that picking an emotionally stable or even just gainfully employed dude once in awhile might be beneficial. But I appear incapable of such sensible decision-making. And now I have his dog choosing to stay here in my corner, which is sort of vindicating, but I'd rather it were my cat, who is instead taking a crap in the basement because that seems like a good response to tension...


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 8:08 PM
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Don't poop in the basement, Di. Drink your feelings or whatever you need to do.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 8:14 PM
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Sorry to hear that, Di.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 8:15 PM
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Gotta pick Rory up from a concert in 20. Thereafter, I can drink ( or poop? ) my feelings.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 8:17 PM
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I'm not going to go so far as to say definitely don't poop in the basement, though. Maybe that is the best thing to do at this point, although I doubt it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 8:17 PM
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I have a hospital acquired Infection tthat would make the cleanup of my own poop excessively problematic. But the cat can do what he likes. A shit is just a shit.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 8:20 PM
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I'm comfortable saying don't drink in the basement. Place smells like cat poop.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 8:21 PM
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In that case a better approach might be to poop in the hospital.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 8:21 PM
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The hospital already has these germs, silly. They don't need more.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 8:24 PM
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I know, but you might want to punish them.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 8:25 PM
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I certainly can't give anyone relationship advice, but I've heard if you can see a pattern and list what you'd rather have instead, that can help. On the other hand, that's what Lee did and how she got stuck with me.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 8:29 PM
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||

There are drunken students Christmas-caroling in my neighborhood.

|>


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 8:31 PM
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As soon as Rory is home safely, I may just give drunken caroling a go. " Come, they told me parumumpumpum..."


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 8:34 PM
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We have a neighbor who seems to be drunken shoveling. Caroling might be more pleasant from in here.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 8:36 PM
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That advice certainly sounds like a big win from Lee's perspective, Thorn. Not many could do better than she has!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 8:37 PM
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I have felt if anything more of an urge to carol since I've been singing often at Shabbat services. The only locals I'm sure are going out, though, are friends-of-friends whose company is merely tolerable. Alas!


Posted by: joyslinger | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 8:54 PM
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Oh, I didn't mean to be fishing for compliments. She'd just been saying that living with me is no Robben Island, which seemed inappropriate to quote but was at least a compliment. Seriously, a lot of things she thought she wanted turned out to be not what she liked as much as she like the alternatives presented by prior bad girlfriends even if my version is better for her. I am the cod liver oil of love or something.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 9:00 PM
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I had no idea cod liver oil was traditionally fermented.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 9:03 PM
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"the cod liver oil of love" reminds me of one my favorite phrases ever from a philosophy paper, the apposition "fool's sexiness, the iron pyrites of love".


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 9:12 PM
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I'm often reminded of it.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 9:13 PM
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Ick, that religion thread.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 9:52 PM
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So, wwatching Colbert as we are wont to do and Rory says "is it just me, or does the guy in the middle [of a group of Republicans] look like a turtle?" I laugh, and then (having a brain fart on his name) Google "Republican leader turtle." Result #2: http://www.mcconnell.senate.gov/public/


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 10:02 PM
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This might have been less amusing if you guys hadn't told me to drink my feelings.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 10:03 PM
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We live to serve.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 10:09 PM
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We can even provide links.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 10:16 PM
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I have felt if anything more of an urge to carol since I've been singing often at Shabbat services.

I feel like there's a certain tension between the two clauses of this sentence.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 10:19 PM
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73: Astonishingly, neither of those turtle-like politicians was the one Di was thinking of.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 10:27 PM
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But then I suppose it's ultimately turtles all the way down.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 10:28 PM
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Stanley simply said he could provide links, not that the links would be particularly responsive. He knows I will take what I can get.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 6-13 11:28 PM
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I'm about to make a slow-cooker pot roast with cream of mushroom soup and dry onion soup mix. Next week, something with crumbled potato chips on top.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 7-13 6:50 AM
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Found a new recipe involving less pre-packaged stuff. Still a bit leery about it because it says I need "allspice." I'm thinking I could just add some pepper, clove, and onion powder to get the same effect without buying another jar that I will use 1/2 a teaspoon of and have it clutter the cabinet for the next ten years.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 7-13 7:25 AM
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I made an eggnog custard pie yesterday with frizen pie crust and dulce de leche eggnog from the store that I forgot to give to my brother at Thanksgiving. It is delicious and was stupidly easy, but I remain skeptical of recipes involving cream of mushroom soup, which is why. Our crock pot is underused.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12- 7-13 7:28 AM
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We have allspice. Apparently, it's a common thing.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 7-13 7:32 AM
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I've become a fan of cream of mushroom soup. It kind of paves over almost anything to create a nice pseudo-healthy (read: not fun like junk food) pleasant-ish dinnertime. To make matters worse, I usually go for the low-fat version, so I'm pretty sure none of you will now ever think highly of anything I make.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 7-13 7:32 AM
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Also we have a caroling party next week, hosted by dear friends, and I find caroling dreadfully mortifying.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 7-13 7:34 AM
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84

I'm going to cheat and use stock when it calls for broth. Probably water it down a bit, right?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 7-13 7:36 AM
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83: Isn't that a good time to play the Jewish Card.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 7-13 7:38 AM
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78: I have made this successfully before. It tastes like meat.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 12- 7-13 7:42 AM
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Off to go swimming buy bay leaves and tomato paste.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 7-13 7:44 AM
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I should know the difference between stock and broth, but I don't.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 7-13 7:46 AM
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84/88. It's an eye of the beholder thing. Moby will do fine with the flavoured water of his choice.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 12- 7-13 7:54 AM
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We'll see. The die is cast.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 7-13 9:31 AM
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I can recommend cream of mushroom soup to anyone suffering from a canker sore. Pretty much the only thing I could eat last week.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12- 7-13 9:42 AM
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