Re: Cite?

1

There's a John Donne eligie that has "'Tis a mystery to me."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 12:28 PM
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You don't mean this Google Books result, do you?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 12:40 PM
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I do. Doesn't it count?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 12:47 PM
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Only those two italicized lines after "Tis a mystery to me" are by Donne; the line itself is by the author of that book, which was self-published in 2008.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 12:54 PM
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5

Then it doesn't help you at all.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 12:56 PM
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I didn't want to come out and say it.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 12:58 PM
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It's from Wycliffe Donne, the classical hip hop artists.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 1:43 PM
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8

It refers to "Mystery," the well known pick up artist featured on VH1.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 1:50 PM
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9

My worst mistake since I bought the 100% natural peanut butter.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 1:52 PM
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10

But this mistake isn't fixable by salting my peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 1:55 PM
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My wife and I are engaged in a long-standing, low-level peanut-butter war. She, being of hippie parentage, insists that natural peanut butter is not disgusting. I know better. Gotta have the Jif.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 2:49 PM
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Gotta have the Jif

Isn't there a controversy about how to pronounce that?


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 3:09 PM
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Just remember the handy mnemonic "He gifted me the Jif."


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 3:20 PM
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Jammies is firmly on team Instant Oil Slick Hippie Peanut Butter. It's not a battle I fight.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 3:24 PM
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You're all wrong (and unhelpful): grind-your-own almond butter is the only acceptable nut spread.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 3:27 PM
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There are a bunch of 19th C / early 20th C slight misquotations which appear over and over in certain types of books. The only one I can think of right now is "there's a chiel amang ye takin' notes" but I've definitely met others. The original referent can be hard to track down because you end up just locating some other (say) 1940s British novel where the same version is quoted.
On the OP, leaving out the "'Tis" turns up lots of examples of that psalm so I think that's the quotation source.


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 3:40 PM
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17

Huh, should have thought of that. Thank you.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 3:46 PM
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Teddy Extra Crunchy peanut butter; it's a regional delicacy and the only true accompaniment to the fluffernutter.

And all-natural (except for some added salt).


Posted by: DaveLMA | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 3:48 PM
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19

So fucking sick of this pertussive emesis.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 3:59 PM
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20

Could this be whooping cough? This says adults don't actually make the whooping sound.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 4:05 PM
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21

Failed link: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001561.htm


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 4:05 PM
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Worth checking. This has been going on too long and would be hell on athletics.

But surely, what with all the little kids, you have had a booster recently? Still, efficacy isn't 100%.


Posted by: Bruce Jenner | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 4:29 PM
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Could this be whooping cough?

If not, I know a guy who can give you whooping cough.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 4:30 PM
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|| So, we're having a Stand Your Ground moment. Shooting was just up the street from us. Police have arrested the guy, so there's that. Our neighborhood ass'n had sent around an email a few days ago about a break-in in that same area, and I had immediately thought it was (a) teens who (b) know the homeowners -- because it's way up a cul-de-sac, and there's no reason at all to choose that place randomly. We'll see what comes out. |>


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 4:44 PM
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Speaking as someone with an actual documented allergic reaction to the tdap vaccine severe enough that Kaiser, ground zero of evidence based non-woo medicine, refuses to give me a booster, get it checked out and try super hard not to cough in public without covering your mouth with a tissue that you dispose of safely. Please.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 4:45 PM
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That's not Stand Your Ground. The kid was in the house. Unless the garage is detached or there is a reason to think it wasn't related to burglary, I think the homeowner would not face charges here.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 4:50 PM
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The garages are all attached on that street. It's basically the same statute as in Florida -- deadly force only if there's a reasonable belief that the intruder meant harm to humans.

There's a rumor going around that the victim was an exchange student, maybe a Turk living in Germany. If so, we can expect it to get picked up by the German press.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:05 PM
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28

Other rumor is first shot hit the kid in the arm, and then second shot to the head.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:08 PM
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25: I don't think they'd treat me, if that's what it is. I've had it for over two weeks, at which point antibiotics aren't particularly effective. It sounds like the next three weeks of coughing would just be recovering lungs.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:09 PM
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It sounds like the next three weeks of coughing would just be recovering lungs from where they fall on the carpet after being expelled forcibly from your body cavity.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:11 PM
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Anyhow if you think it's that you should go to the doctor anyhow in case they need to publicly shame anti-vax shitheads. (Or, more seriously, maybe somebody at your daycare is being shady about shots or something?)


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:12 PM
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32

My sympathies, at any rate. Could end up with awesome abdominals!


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:13 PM
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We were not hippies in my family but preferred natural peanut butter. Columbus had a maker, Krema products, just West of the old OP. Only kind I eat.


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:28 PM
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34

27.1 : I thought that in practice, they took a pretty broad view of "reasonable" once the guy was in the.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:28 PM
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35

They got Moby!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:29 PM
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36

19: I just googled that. Sounds horrible. My sympathies.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:30 PM
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35: + house.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:33 PM
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Philistines, elbow-ground cashew butter is the only civilized nut spread.


Posted by: conflated | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:43 PM
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34 -- Yeah, I think it's a pretty steep hill to climb to get 12 people to find the homeowner unreasonable beyond a reasonable doubt. Depending on the second shot, and whether the kid knew the people.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:49 PM
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40

But the police wouldn't have taken him in if they didn't think something was wrong.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:52 PM
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41

My guess is that it whooping cough. All three kids had a 1-2 day version of this. I think I just got hit super hard with an otherwise mild bug.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:53 PM
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I mean, the cold and fever lasted1-2 days with them, and then they coughed for longer. Whereas I was bedridden last week.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:54 PM
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43

The guess is that it is NOT whooping cough.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:55 PM
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44

You might also have gotten a secondary infection, too. Poor you, though. It sounds really unpleasant.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 5:57 PM
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45

40: That is a pretty good sign that they see something funny.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 6:12 PM
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46

Poking around, I see that the shooter's mother, who lives near Seattle, owns the house. And that his father is from Nebraska -- which is pretty suspicious, you have to admit.

It's 20 houses away from us.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 6:15 PM
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47

I don't recognize the name of the shooter. Only one guy I know shot somebody on purpose. (Except for military service.)


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 6:25 PM
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48

You're on the same schedule as my kid, Heebie; I just spent an hour with the carpet cleaner. Feel better!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 6:53 PM
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But the police wouldn't have taken him in if they didn't think something was wrong.

Comments on the story speculate about pot in the garage, so the cops might have booked him for that. The story also says he used a shotgun, so "first shot arm, second shot head" seems a little unlikely, though not impossible.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 7:01 PM
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Poor little guy.

Thanks for the sympathy, all.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 7:03 PM
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51

49: Why would a shotgun make that unlikely?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 7:06 PM
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The non-natural peanut butter is full of sugar and horrible partially hydrogenated oils. My arteries are clogging just thinking about it.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 7:09 PM
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Why would a shotgun make that unlikely?

Seems like it wouldn't be so neat with many pellets rather than two bullets--not impossible, of course, but not the way I'd expect it be described.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 7:14 PM
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At the distance you would have in a garage, a gun with a reasonable choke (say for duck) wouldn't have a very broad spread.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 7:18 PM
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The two shots story supposedly comes from what the cops told the kid's parents.

It really seems likely to me that shooter and victim knew each other in some way. This would have been a ridiculous place for a random burglary -- there are bigger houses, surely some with people out of town for the weekend, with much better access.

The host family must be having a terrible time. And his actual family too, of course.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 7:31 PM
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56

say for duck

No, he said Turkey.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 7:37 PM
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57

Duck, Duck, Turkey.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 7:55 PM
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49, 51, 53, 54: the plice tactical manual I read years ago for god knows what reason had a whole section about how people -- including cops -- tend to dramatically overestimate the likely spread of shotgun shot at close range, and that really at distances of less than some number of yards it's not going to have spread much at all.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 8:07 PM
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I thought "plice" was a trade name. Then I remembered that sifu went to a public university and studied history.


Posted by: Den E. Crumb | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 8:09 PM
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60

Just googleproofing so the pigs can't find me.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 8:13 PM
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58: I've never read a plice tactical manual but I've shot a lot of junked cars in my day.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 8:13 PM
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62

And one abandoned refrigerator.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 8:16 PM
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63

Googling confirms what you guys are saying: spread of a few inches at the kind of distance you'd have in a garage.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 8:16 PM
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64

And zero road signs. Because moral.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 8:16 PM
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65

The kid's online soccer stats put him at 5'9" and 150 lbs. Not exactly scary sized.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 8:34 PM
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66

Plus if you so much as touch him he'll go down screaming in pain.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 8:44 PM
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67

Just googleproofing so the pigs can't find me.

Too late!


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 9:39 PM
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68

This would have been a ridiculous place for a random burglary

A common mistake is to filter someone's actions through your clear thinking brain. Not so hypothetically, you're not a twenty year old methhead who, once you'd been caught in a stolen car, could be persuaded to drive around and show me where you'd dumped five more stolen cars in exchange for a few Marlboros and some super nachos.

Aside from all that, my gut reaction is that it's Missoula and the guy was shot in the garage and they booked the homeowner into jail? Something's up.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 9:45 PM
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69

My research intimates the homeowner is of Estonian descent.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 9:47 PM
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70

I know nothing about guns but I wondered after watching the movie if people should have been able to tell which gun shot Liberty Valence.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 10:15 PM
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Not only did they book the guy, but on deliberate homicide. Jail roster can be viewed here. Unless the police massively screwed this up there's going to be some interesting/damning details coming out.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 10:21 PM
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"OK, Caine, this is residue from the bullet casing in the body. Doniphon's rounds were plated with copper, Stoddard's with steel. If this has copper, the acid will turn it green; otherwise, blue."

"Well, gentlemen, it looks your liberty is down to... [sunglasses] the valence."

YEEAAHHHHH


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 10:34 PM
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72 is excellent.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 10:35 PM
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74

Not only did they book the guy, but on deliberate homicide.

The four other homicide arrests on the current roster are all "Homicide, Justifiable".


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 10:39 PM
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75

Nice, I had searched his name and didn't see that. Maybe Carp can clarify what the hell they're getting at.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 10:47 PM
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76

I just spent an hour with the carpet cleaner

He's exaggerating. It was like three minutes, tops.


Posted by: The Carpet Cleaner | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 11:02 PM
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Carpet cleaner, you can sleep with ogged. You can bring him in, you can do whatever you want. Just don't put it on an Instagram for the world to have to see.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 11:16 PM
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Isn't it most likely the circumstances of the second shot? If the kid's on the ground, bleeding, obviously unarmed, that shot to the head is going to look pretty problematic.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 11:21 PM
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78: I was thinking more of the term "justifiable homicide" being used on a charge for someone in jail.

But yeah, something's likely off about the shoot.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 11:25 PM
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80

And I'm not sure what to think about the alarm. What's the kid doing still in the garage after the alarm goes off?


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 11:26 PM
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80: The alarm might be an alert to someone inside that's not audible to the party in the garage.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 11:29 PM
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That does seem like a funny reason to have someone in jail. Here's what two of them are in for: http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/two-suspects-face-charges-in-missoula-shooting/23218124

69 -- The mother's maiden name seems Chinese to me.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-27-14 11:36 PM
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|| Does it annoy people in San Francisco when you refer to San Francisco as the West Bay? As in "after next week I'm going to be spending as little time as possible in the West Bay?" Obviously I am trying to be annoying.
|>


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 12:08 AM
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Question mark should be outside of parentheses, of course.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 12:08 AM
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It's not used often, but "West Bay" has in the past referred more to the Peninsula, but not really SF.* I think you'd confuse more than annoy.

*"West Bay Rapid Transit"


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 12:47 AM
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Those who can, annoy. Those who can't, confuse.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 12:51 AM
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The interweaving of the Heebie illness subthread and the shooting subthread makes for a fantastic surrealist narrative (Get better, Heebie).

Hippie peanut butter : commercial peanut butter :: thick cut marmalade : blackcurrant jelly. Different things, both good.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 5:06 AM
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I think you'd confuse more than annoy.

I hate it when I do that.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 5:18 AM
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89

Thick cut marmalade is also gross.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 6:22 AM
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90

Maybe, but I'm not sure what a currant is. I think it's a grape that failed to thrive.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 6:25 AM
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Black currants (also red and white) - native to Scandinavia, where red currants are the main ingredient of rødgrød, aka the food of the gods. Not to be confused with currants, a form of dried grape exported in the middle ages from Corinth in Greece, whence the name. When the Scandinavian soft fruit became available in Britain people called them currants on the basis on an imagined similarity.

Spike doesn't know what he's talking about but then, if I remember aright, all American jellies and jams are inedibly sweet to an untutored palate, so I suppose it's what you're used to.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 6:44 AM
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92

All I remember about currants is that they juice them and some people ruin perfectly good beer or cider with the juice.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 6:48 AM
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93

Seems an odd thing to do, but then the Belgians put raspberries in beer and it's actually surprisingly good.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 6:50 AM
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Belgian beer is way overrated in my book. Something that costs $60 or a more a case should taste better.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 6:53 AM
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91: currants don't grow here in the us, as I recall. But they are delicious.


Posted by: Annelid Gustator | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 6:56 AM
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Black currants make the best sorbet and they also make great jams unless they've been over sweetened. (Along with melon, lemon, raspberry, and mango for sorbets and sour cherries and mirabelles for jams.) Not quite sure what the marmalade-jelly-peanut butter analogy is supposed to mean.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 6:57 AM
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91 They do grow here, all three colors are commonly available at local greenmarkets when in season.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 6:58 AM
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97: oh, I misremembered. Importation of the plant was forbidden until recently b/c of some arboreal disease! Until the 90s when the ban was de-federalized. NY was among the first to lift it.

Thanks tkm.


Posted by: Annelid Gustator | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 7:02 AM
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96: Marmalade is a puppy. Peanut butter is a wolf cub.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 7:03 AM
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currants don't grow here in the us, as I recall.

Their cultivation is banned in a number of states (the bushes are a vector for a disease affecting a more valuable / politically influential crop).


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 7:05 AM
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Scotland produces very fine currants. Which I suppose isn't surprising.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 7:12 AM
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So are currants supposed to be tough and hard, or is that US desolation? I usually replace them with raisins in recipes that call for them.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 7:35 AM
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The dried grape type of currants are smaller, darker and harder than ordinary raisins, yes, but raisins are a reasonable substitute most often. I'd seek out the real thing if I was making currant buns, but then I never do.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 7:40 AM
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104

Chris has impressive knowledge of currant affairs.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 8:02 AM
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105

Have snagged red currants at the market in Portland Oregon. Also purchased excellent black currant jelly from some outfit in the NW, saved the label somewhere but not locatable at the moment. In short, findable but not readily.

If someone uses "West" or "Western" as a place descriptor around here I would expect West Marin, West Berkeley, West Contra Costa, or the Western Addition. No one would use West Bay to refer to SF, which is actually a bit mean spirited of us as the other three cardinal point designations are perfectly fine.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 8:05 AM
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I did use the term "West Bay" to refer to SF once. I was young and irresponsible.

(105.2: What about West Oakland?)


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 8:08 AM
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107

My office is in West Oakland.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 8:13 AM
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108

Definitely West Oakland, and West Portal too. But West San Francisco, no. The Sunset, the Outer Sunset, the Richmond.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 8:31 AM
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109

Isn't San Francisco West Oakland?


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 8:38 AM
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109: That's good - I'd use it if not for the unfortunate implications with the real West Oakland.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 8:40 AM
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I am definitely calling San Francisco the "Midwest Bay" from here one out.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 8:45 AM
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Alsoe goeing to usee plentee of extrae eeeeees.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 8:45 AM
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113

If we slide West Oakland over to the Financial District for the next few days can I justify calling Ocean Beach my office? 74 forecast out there for Wednesday...


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 8:46 AM
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Speaking of SF, I'll probably in the rough environs* some time in July, if anyone fancies a meetup.

* Palo Alto.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 8:50 AM
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115

That's rough indeed.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 8:51 AM
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Palo Alto is the posh Midwest Bay Area.

Take a tech shuttle up here so we can get video of you stranded by protesters! Would be awesome!

just kidding, would be nice to have a meet up.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 8:55 AM
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117

What part of July? I'm going to be in Prague/Berlin the second week and part of the first.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:00 AM
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I don't know. It's a work thing, at a certain university in Palo Alto, and the date isn't fixed yet. It'll get decided once the availability of all the participants is clear. It's likely to be mid to late July, I think.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:11 AM
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at a certain university in Palo Alto

This one?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:16 AM
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Belgian beer is way overrated in my book. Something that costs $60 or a more a case should taste better.

How many do you consider a case? Because Google is suggesting 24. And $60 for 24 good beers seems cheap. A 12-pack of Becks cans, which is bog standard without being budget, costs about about 9 or 10 quid from a supermarket over here. So your Belgian beer price is at most twice as expensive as bog standard beer (and even then less than a pint of bog standard beer on tap).

By way of comparison, a 330ml bottle of Duvel costs £2.17 at Tesco.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:17 AM
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We're tethered here until some ungodly date in August by 7 weeks of dance intensive, 7 hours a day, 5 days a week. I think we should coordinate with the other parents to have the guys stay with different families on rotation so parents can get out of town. The big flaw in this plan is the cumulative stench of sweaty dance kit from multiple teenage boys. Intimidating prospect, even for one week.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:19 AM
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A case is 24 beers in 12 ounce bottles. A case of Becks in cans is about $32 here. Stella Artios is $37, but I don't like that.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:22 AM
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123

Do you not have Ribena or any other blackcurrant squash (ha, that'll confuse them!) then?


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:24 AM
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I'm not sure what the difference is, but Duvel is listed twice. Once at $80 and once at $106.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:24 AM
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We had a bottle of this left as a welcome gift for us in the house we stayed in in Belgium at Easter (just down the road from Oudenaarde). I liked it, and I'm not a beer drinker. But maybe I could be.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:28 AM
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Some Belgian beers are definitely worth it. Duvel probably isn't. Aren't they owned by InBev or maybe they have become a giant conglomerate or something? I feel like their quality has gone downhill, and also that Belgian beer responds really well to being made in very tiny batches. I imagine Nathan Williams (at least) knows a lot more about why this is the case than I do.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:31 AM
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123: We have Ribena, but in the nicer supermarkets that have "British" food sections. (We've discussed this before I think: your Tiptree jams, Yorkshire Gold, Bisto, Bird's Custard, Hobnobs, Jammie Dodgers, Aero Bars, Crunchie, etc.)


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:32 AM
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I'm not sure what the difference is, but Duvel is listed twice. Once at $80 and once at $106.

That's more like the price discrepancy I'd expect. I'd certainly pay $60 for Duvel over $32 for Becks. $105 would probably be pushing it, but still, compared to pub prices it's not so bad.

There's also the question of range - regardless of quality, if you want a gueuze, say, you pretty much have to go Belgian. And the Belgians do fruit beers better than anyone else. Neither of those are really my thing, but I do enjoy a Duvel or a Chimay Bleue now and again.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:32 AM
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I also find Belgian beer over-rated. Or at least the ones that most people seem to like. They are overly sweet. I have had some nice pale-not-too-sweet Belgian beer, but Dubbel and Chimay and the like .. meh.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:34 AM
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San Francisco the "Midwest Bay"

That's Yerba Buena/Treasure Island. Just don't call it "Bridgeover country".


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:36 AM
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Duvel is fairly low end. Pub session beer. But certainly qualitatively better than Becks which I think of as student binge beer.

GM, there's a Belgian bar in Drury Lane which has about 60 choices. I haven't really tried to explore it, but I think you'd find most things there. Good food too.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:37 AM
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I like Belgian food a good deal. Just not super keen on the beer, although there are Belgian lagers and pale ales I've liked. Glasgow has a nice Belgian bar that does OK food, and decent beer. Although, googling, it looks like someone bought it:

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/all-change-for-ashton-lane-bar-131283n.21667108

It's in a nice spot.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:42 AM
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130, nice.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:43 AM
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130: nope, it's SF, by decree.

Anyhow TI is much too weird to have so normal a nickname. "Radioactive Land"? "Nash Bridge"? "Mythbustamento"? "Neo-Templehof"?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:45 AM
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"Goat Island"


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:54 AM
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131: PBR (Pabst) is $15 a case here and that's hardly the bottom of the barrel, so to speak.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:55 AM
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One time I attended a Belgian beer dinner, arranged by Garrett Oliver, and it was a great time with lots of explanations of brewing techniques, and they leave the windows open so the wild yeast can fly in from the Zenne Valley, and this one really sets off the asparagus (or whatever), etc. I came away realizing there are some Belgian beers I do like, but I'm not very fond of most of them*, so I'd never order one in a bar, because chances are I wouldn't like it very much.

*I group them mentally alongside wheat beers, which, as a general rule, don't ride on my gusty bus.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:56 AM
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I love a lot of Belgian beer, but I put into its own category - Westmalle is so rich and aromatic it doesn't even quite taste like beer to me.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 9:59 AM
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Come on, folks, get with the new century. If you're not buying beer by the growler, you're doing it wrong.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 10:01 AM
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Lots of places will release things in 22s that they won't sell you in growlers.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 10:02 AM
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|| Was just on an elevator with a lawyer holding a tabbed folder, the various tabs having names that were variations on "August Wilson Center loan." Hrmmmm. |>


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 10:17 AM
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"Mythbustamento"?

That's Alameda.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 10:34 AM
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142: they do a lot of stuff on TI, too, but fair enough.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 10:35 AM
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Alameda = Middle East Bay


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 10:35 AM
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Come on, folks, get with the new century. If you're not buying beer by the growler, you're doing it wrong.

I always have to stifle a giggle whenever I hear "growler" used in a beer context.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 10:37 AM
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141: The building looks like a penis.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 11:03 AM
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I have red and black currants flourishing in my backyard in Seattle, but the berries get inhabited by little green worms. Possibly the worms are here because there's a native species of Ribes (currants, gooseberries) with smaller, less sweet berries.

What happened with growlers? Did a law change or is this just fashion?


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 11:59 AM
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Are growlers actually more fashionable now? I think (thought) of them as pretty much the regular way for small breweries to sell beer, and knew beer nerds who bought them regularly back in the early '90s.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 12:06 PM
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I mean, I guess a law changed in the '70s.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 12:07 PM
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I used to go get growlers because of the novelty of it. Then I realized how expensive it was compared to going to the distributor and I stopped.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 12:09 PM
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I hardly ever heard of them when I left Seattle in 2006, and then they were all over when I came back last year. But there were plenty of microbreweries before 2006. Washington did change its hard liquor sales laws; or maybe it takes a while for these things to get to the provinces.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 12:19 PM
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Wikipedia says they date to 1989, which is later than I would have expected. On the other hand, if they started in Idaho then "outwards to the provinces" does not seem to capture the full dynamics of their spread.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 12:40 PM
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It sure beats using a pail.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 12:54 PM
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141: From one angle. But that's true of a bunch of buildings. The only thing novel of about the AWC's architecture is that it looks like one that's sideways.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 1:00 PM
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I wonder if that was mentioned at the pitch meeting?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 1:04 PM
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Maybe the architect was an adherent of the Falun Dong.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 1:11 PM
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There's a tear in my eye. You can't see it, but know it is there.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 1:15 PM
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The yeast they use for "Belgian" beers (shorthand for a specific type that I'm blanking on) tastes like bananas to me. I do not want my beer to taste like bananas.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 1:20 PM
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I meant a tear of joy. Not like I have a problem with my retina or anything.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 1:24 PM
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Belgian beers shouldn't be all that banana-y, unlike Hefeweizen (German) which is supposed to be very banana-y.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 2:27 PM
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I heart belgian beer. Probably 75% of my favorite beers are Belgian (Cantillon, Drei Fonteinen, Rodenbach, Rochefort) or Belgian style (Russian River Valley sours, anything by Unibroue, Allagash white).


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 2:33 PM
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At least two of those are cheeses.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 2:35 PM
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160: Well they do to me, whether or not they're supposed to.

Russian River sour beers are awesome.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 3:01 PM
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163.2: Yes!


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 3:34 PM
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|| Follow up to 141. (I work in the same building as said court.) |>


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 04-28-14 8:40 PM
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