Re: There's No Irony In This Post

1

I probably don't want to know the answer, but what is it about new, massproduced cast iron that's supposed to be inferior to the old stuff?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:25 AM
horizontal rule
2

I put up duck legs in the fat from our Christmas eve roast goose, burbled them away in a cast iron pot, aged for a fee months and then crisped up for dinner Saturday evening but this time in copper bottomed stainless steel. They were delicious, especially the crispy skin. Ate them with rocket salad, mmmmm. I suppose the stainless steel cuts the SWPL points down considerably, but they were consumed in a room in which there is sauerkraut in the making, so maybe make it back there?


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:28 AM
horizontal rule
3

Kismet, I was just thinking about this. I have one skillet (enameled) and one pot, both gifts and expensive, but want to round things out with a regular 12" one like I grew up with.

Is there any virtue to seasoning the pan oneself, or is that another affectation?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:28 AM
horizontal rule
4

I have a set of Griswold cast iron skillets that belonged to my great-grandmother. How's that for SWPL cred?


Posted by: MAE | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:29 AM
horizontal rule
5

I once gave a set if beautifully seasoned cast iron waffle irons to a friend suffering from a very deep depression following a wrenching breakup and I've never regretted it even though seasoning the replacements was a huge pain in the ass. Totally worth it.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:32 AM
horizontal rule
6

I'm actually looking at the geeky seasoning instructions, and am tempted to give it a shot. Our pans are functional, but clearly not as well seasoned as they could be.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:34 AM
horizontal rule
7

Relevant.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:34 AM
horizontal rule
8

Cast iron skillets probably make better impromptu weapons than stainless steel.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:35 AM
horizontal rule
9

But all mine is modern cheapass Lodge. The 10" skillet is older than the 12" -- I might have walked off with it from my parents kitchen? Or maybe it was a present in college? But the 12" Buck definitely bought new in our early dating careerafter I burned a dinner I was cooking for him badly enough to set off his upstairs neighbor's smoke alarm, and blamed it on the thin stainless frying pan I was using.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:37 AM
horizontal rule
10

Those folks are hilarious! But sadly probably on to something, our best pan is a little omelet number from a tag sale years,ago with a broken handle and a smooth as satin surface.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:38 AM
horizontal rule
11

7: Oh, that does explain it. I've noticed that really old pans are smoother, but I thought it was decades of wear or something like that.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:39 AM
horizontal rule
12

9: Mine also. I've never really used them much.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:40 AM
horizontal rule
13

7: I don't even have an orbital sander. I have the cheaper kind that just shake back and forth.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:41 AM
horizontal rule
14

Slosh enough ghee, lard or goose fat in them and the modern cheap lodge does fine. I suppose if I ran across a teenager with access to power tools and looking for a project I'd get some polishing done but otherwise, eh, it's not worth the obsessional interest to me.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:43 AM
horizontal rule
15

I started roasting cauliflower. Everyone (including the dog!) loves it. Thank you, unfogged!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:45 AM
horizontal rule
16

What I'm going to do is keep using the anodized aluminum and non-stick coated stuff that I use every time I cook anyway.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:46 AM
horizontal rule
17

And it can add iron to your food!


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:47 AM
horizontal rule
18

15: Did you put cheese on it?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:47 AM
horizontal rule
19

I have a cast-iron dutch oven less than 20 years old. I mostly use it for making stew or chili on the range. After browning meat, there's baked-on crud. I use steel wool to clean it, then wipe it with olive oil before putting it away.

The emphasis on stuff is so heavily misguided that I can't even.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:49 AM
horizontal rule
20

I'd read that post about seasoning pan with flax oil. I think that's a bit excessive, since that stuff is expensive. Canola or peanut oil should be fine.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:49 AM
horizontal rule
21

Non-stick is great for eggs, but you have to be careful about not using metal utensils and cleaning it without being too abrasive. You can beat the shit out of iron!

Also, I have a great iron wok which sits flat on my glass stovetop.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:51 AM
horizontal rule
22

18: No, just olive oil and salt.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:52 AM
horizontal rule
23

Note that J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, a man who has a $100 meat thermometer, says the differences between old and new cast iron are "minor".


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:00 AM
horizontal rule
24

As much as I love J Kenj, I take what he says with a grain of salt since the time he admitted that one of his "tests show" was him cooking for friends at home.

That said, yes, he's probably right about that, though I don't know first-hand.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:06 AM
horizontal rule
25

my new-ish Lodge cast iron Dutch Oven gets used mostly for baking bread. and it does a fantastic job of that. don't have to put anything on it before, or do anything more than wipe it out with a paper towel after.


Posted by: cleek | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:07 AM
horizontal rule
26

When I moved into my first real apartment and got my first real job and all that I also got, at Target, a Martha Stewart brand cast iron dutch oven, undoubtedly of new construction. I kind of fucked up the sides somehow but you know what? It's fine. It's totally fine.

(Much later I also got, pretty much by accident, a 6" and a 12" skillet which do seem to date from the old days of super-smooth cast iron, and it's true that they're really nice.)


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:10 AM
horizontal rule
27

Blume got me a (new, Lodge) cast iron skillet for a present. It's great! Works good! We seasoned it with lard. Seems fine! Cleans out super easy!

I want a hundred dollar meat thermometer. There's a dual probe wireless jobbie I've had my eye on.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:10 AM
horizontal rule
28

That's just too low hanging, fruit-wise.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:14 AM
horizontal rule
29

Maybe I could get the kid to practice pirouettes with various abrasive on the working foot *inside* the pans? Is there a business plan in this? Perhaps a fundraiser for impecunious ballet schools!


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:15 AM
horizontal rule
30

Did I say thermometer? I meant brisket dildo.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:15 AM
horizontal rule
31

The hundred-dollar thermometer (we're talking Thermapen, right?) is awesome. It's so much faster that it's hard to explain. Also, the company that makes them seems adorable, and sends little packets of jellybeans in with your order.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:15 AM
horizontal rule
32

Listening to classic rock radio the other day, I thought of the ultimate SWPL burn long-con. Here's what you do, but it takes dedication. You marry the SWPL target, have a kid, and mysteriously insist on naming the kid "Maurice." And then ... at the preschool interview where they adoringly say "Oh! Named after Maurice Sendak!" you reveal the truth -- that he was named after "Maurice" from the "some call me the gangster of love" Steve Miller song.


Posted by: Tim "Ripper" Owens | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:16 AM
horizontal rule
33

31: no, this is a leave-in grill thermometer with a grill temperature probe.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:17 AM
horizontal rule
34

I was talking about a thermapen.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:21 AM
horizontal rule
35

brisket dildo

If there are any lurkers out there who have held off commenting until they could find just the right pseud, now's your chance!


Posted by: MAE | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:21 AM
horizontal rule
36

My current roommate moved in with a (Lodge) pan that is somewhere between fifteen and seventeen inches across, which is hilariously massive but also kind of great. I can barely lift it one handed, and you have to just turn the burner on full and let it sit there for a minute or so before using it because of how much heat it holds. It's pretty amazing for cooking though, and makes my normal (but old!) pan feel kind of inadequate.

It's newer so I have tried both rough and polished surfaces for cooking and, to be honest, the only difference I can see is that the smooth surface looks a lot prettier on the rare occasions when we've taken seasoning after use seriously.


Posted by: MHPH | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:25 AM
horizontal rule
37

If Maurice Sendak is their reference they aren't really worthy of the game, you need to seek out circles where "Maurice" calls to mind "Jeannette MacDonald".


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:26 AM
horizontal rule
38

OT Bleg:

What the hell's going on with my browser? In most of my tabs, I can click around and mouseover and suchlike, but I've now been to 2 different pages (one the local paper, the other a Wordpress blog) and been unable to click on anything, or even get the cursor to change states when hovering over links. I even tried closing that tab and reopening the pages in a fresh tab, but no dice.

Does this ever happen to anyone else? Any guesses what's happening?

Safari on a Mac, FWIW. Spare me any comments on browser selection.

|>


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:31 AM
horizontal rule
39

Since I didn't pause, that play function won't have any effect.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:31 AM
horizontal rule
40

38. Happens from time to time (Chrome on a PC). Sacrificing a cockerel to Baron Samedi usually fixes it. So does closing the browser and reopening it.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:40 AM
horizontal rule
41

I want a hundred dollar meat thermometer. There's a dual probe wireless jobbie I've had my eye on.

I bought my parents one of them for Christmas. No other way to check the internal temperature of something in an Aga, and opening the door increases the cooking time a lot.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:55 AM
horizontal rule
42

About all I brought to my marriage was some college debt and a well-seasoned Lodge pancake griddle. The debt is retired but the griddle is still going strong. ms bill and the kids got me a "modern" pre-seasoned Lodge skillet a few Father's Days ago that has worked fine, although I did have to re-season it once with peanut oil.


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:58 AM
horizontal rule
43

How is this as a slogan for a cookware company?

100% Cast Iron. O% Irony


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:59 AM
horizontal rule
44

About all I brought to my marriage was some college debt and a well-seasoned Lodge pancake griddle.

I don't know why, but this set off "Sweet Betsey from Pike" in my head. Anyone else want an earworm?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:59 AM
horizontal rule
45

Can't catch them if you don't know what the song sounds like.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 11:03 AM
horizontal rule
46

Iron without Irony.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 11:05 AM
horizontal rule
47

41: an Aga

Ago ovens are beyond SWPL, Ginger.

(Never seen one in the US.)


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 11:11 AM
horizontal rule
48

45: Let me fix that for you.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 11:15 AM
horizontal rule
49

My two favorite pieces of cast iron are an old Wagner Ware frying pan I picked up on eBay for $7 (the deep model, smoothly finished) and a new Lodge 17-inch skillet that I bought to make pad Thai because this woman urged me to, and I would do pretty much anything she suggested.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 11:23 AM
horizontal rule
50

Ago ovens are beyond SWPL, Ginger.

It came with the house my parents moved into relatively recently. So far it seems to have been more trouble than it's worth.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 11:24 AM
horizontal rule
51

How much does that 17 inch cast iron skillet weigh?


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 11:26 AM
horizontal rule
52

(Never seen one in the US.)

A friend here has one. She's a pretty famous chef, but most restaurant cooks I know have not-so-fancy home kitchens.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 11:27 AM
horizontal rule
53

I'm not clicking 48. Maybe later.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 11:32 AM
horizontal rule
54

51: Almost 15 pounds. It's huge enough that every time you take it out when there's company, people are like, whoa (...laydeez). You can get one new for 60 bucks or so.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 11:33 AM
horizontal rule
55

That's heavy enough that it would have stuck Ned Kelly to the ground if made his suit from them.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 11:36 AM
horizontal rule
56

48, 53, Am working on singing all Emily Dickinson poems to "Sweet Betsey from Pike." Only about 1700 to go.


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 11:41 AM
horizontal rule
57

Could someone put together a cookbook -- Recipes that double as workouts?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 11:44 AM
horizontal rule
58

(Never seen one in the US.)

At my first office job, we had clients who were an absolutely lovely couple come over from England because the husband was CFO of He/nz (later CEO of Stark/st). I'm pretty sure they bought the (very Brit-style) big house they did largely because it already had an Aga in it. First I'd ever heard of one, ca. 1997.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 11:46 AM
horizontal rule
59

Aga stoves seems unfortunate in parts of the world where there is actual hot summer.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 11:51 AM
horizontal rule
60

59: Inorite? Always on.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:01 PM
horizontal rule
61

I guess you could cut of the gas for the summer and eat salade Niçoise and ceviche.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:02 PM
horizontal rule
62

+f


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:03 PM
horizontal rule
63

I don't like citrus that much.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:03 PM
horizontal rule
64

I really want a thermapen! Glad to hear they're worth the money.

Unsurprisingly, I love cast iron, though I don't have any old stuff. I've thrown over all of my non-stick for either plain stainless-steel, cast iron, or DeBuyer mineral steel. (The latter was thanks to redfoxtail/snarkout household, indirectly, and I am so happy with them. They rock.)


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:10 PM
horizontal rule
65

Moby, there are other non-citrus-involving things you can rely on for summer nourishment, like cocktails and beer.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:12 PM
horizontal rule
66

Both of those can involve citrus. Especially in the summer.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:13 PM
horizontal rule
67

I'm not opposed to citrus. I just don't feel it offers a complete replacement for cooking with actual heat.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:15 PM
horizontal rule
68

From what I've seen of extensive real estate ad browsing, many people with Agas have a secondary stove for use during even the merely warm British summer. From conversations in my shop, it would appear that many indeed do turn them off during the summer even if they don't have another.

I always thought Aga's and equivalents (Rayburns, etc) were really posh, but I have also learned from friends that most people tore them out when renovating up until the .... early 90s? or so. (I'm unclear on the exact timeline.) So having one can mean really posh, or in an older house and haven't redone the kitchen since 1933 or what have you.

One of my friend's mothers just got a new one to replace her incredibly old & inefficient one and it really is gorgeous in situ (17th-century cottage that they've had for ages in a small, unfashionable, middle-of-nowhere village that they are slowly doing up; not posh) but I don't think I would actually enjoy having one. I do sometimes fantasise about having a secondary, wood-burning range, just for fun, though.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:20 PM
horizontal rule
69

I've heard that if it's hot enough you can scramble eggs on the sidewalk.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:20 PM
horizontal rule
70

in an older house and haven't redone the kitchen since 1933 or what have you

Which I suppose could also mean really, really, really posh but also encompasses plenty of 'normal' folks.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:21 PM
horizontal rule
71

Moby, in the summer you should obviously be cooking on your outdoor grill.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:21 PM
horizontal rule
72

I do.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:23 PM
horizontal rule
73

Then I don't understand what's the issue.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:24 PM
horizontal rule
74

I don't either. I just don't see ceviche as a potential staple of my diet.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:27 PM
horizontal rule
75

Which I suppose could also mean really, really, really posh

The really, really posh people haven't redone their kitchen since the early 1800s.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:28 PM
horizontal rule
76

I offered ceviche merely as an example. You could make sandwiches with cold cuts if you like.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:29 PM
horizontal rule
77

Some of today's AGAs are effectively regular ovens. I have one of these in my rented house, and the conventional and fan ovens function just like ordinary ones, though annoyingly they take an awfully long time to heat up despite their small size. The simmering oven does make fantastic casseroles, though.


Posted by: Ume | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:33 PM
horizontal rule
78

I also don't understand 70 at all, unless it's supposed to mean 'why spend all that money just to make things more convenient for the help, amirite?'. Which I didn't think was what you were trying to imply. Anyway, all the rich people I know have very nice kitchens.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:33 PM
horizontal rule
79

I like the idea of somebody pouring cream of mushroom soup, tuna, noodles, and frozen peas into a dish, crumbling chips over the top, and putting it into a $10,000 oven.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:35 PM
horizontal rule
80

All the rich people I know won't let me near their kitchen.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:43 PM
horizontal rule
81

The really, really posh people haven't redone their kitchen since the early 1800s.

That's nothing; the wall of my cave-kitchen still has the original painting of people throwing spears at an aurochs.


Posted by: MAE | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:44 PM
horizontal rule
82

The poor people probably wouldn't either, if they could afford better locks and an alarm.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:44 PM
horizontal rule
83

I thought the category of SWPL was itself now SWPL and the whole thing had eaten itself.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:53 PM
horizontal rule
84

78: No, just that some people with old houses that haven't been renovated in ages have had them since 1565 but no longer have a lot of money to keep them up. Posh doesn't necessarily mean rich, a distinction that has taken me a long time to figure out.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 12:56 PM
horizontal rule
85

84: So American! Money isn't everything you know!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:03 PM
horizontal rule
86

79: Oh god, I'd forgotten what Americans mean by casserole (why do I always seem to get caught up in UK/US differences in food names every third or fourth time I post here?). No, something like this. Really really really posh people who no longer have any money have to live off what they've killed themselves. I bet aurochs would make a fantastic casserole.


Posted by: Ume | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:05 PM
horizontal rule
87

I knew exactly what you meant. I made the joke anyway. I can't really think this surprises anybody.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:07 PM
horizontal rule
88

you can turn off the Aga in the summer because you have a summer kitchen for putting up the home farm produce.

Or, as observed, the grill; a big propane camping stove is pretty good for camping.

My contribution to workout recipes is "First grind the flour", AIHSHB.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:11 PM
horizontal rule
89

Maurice Pompatus Smith


Posted by: lemmy caution | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:23 PM
horizontal rule
90

85: Heh, I really shouldn't opine on my adopted country. The real Brits will show up and set me right any time now.

(That being said, I think Aga's are going to hit a 'too common/popular' wall soon. Also, I can always tell when a customer has an Aga, because they will tell you, even when not buying anything to do with one.)


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:26 PM
horizontal rule
91

Maurice Gibb.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:27 PM
horizontal rule
92

"First grind the flour"

First, catch a deer.* Then, haul the deer home on your shoulders. After that you can pretty much eat what you want for dinner.

* (They are very fast in short bursts but tire and can be overtaken if chased for days without rest. The hard part is not losing track of them when they sprint away. This may take some practice.)


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:29 PM
horizontal rule
93

Or if you want to be "posh" you could tell people it's pronounced, "Morris", and the child is named after the E.M. Forster novel.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:30 PM
horizontal rule
94

If it is hot out, it doesn't take days to overtake a deer.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:33 PM
horizontal rule
95

Now that I found out deer sometimes eat birds, I'm trying to mentally recast them as ferocious killers. But it's not really working.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:37 PM
horizontal rule
96

Or that you named the child after Lord Nuffield.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:37 PM
horizontal rule
97

And you named the child after him because you are a big fan of the iron lung.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:39 PM
horizontal rule
98

You don't need to chase a deer for days. The scale is much shorter.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:41 PM
horizontal rule
99

"Oh, Maurice? His name is Latin for 'you die'."


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:41 PM
horizontal rule
100

You people obviously run faster than I do.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:42 PM
horizontal rule
101

What do you do once you catch up to the deer? Wrestle them to the ground? Do we get to use a knife?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:45 PM
horizontal rule
102

You can use rocks OR sticks Or a garrote made from natural fibers.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:49 PM
horizontal rule
103

OT: If somebody were asked to update their CV, how would they list a period of time which they spent at graduate school but didn't get a degree? Say this period was previously listed as "Ph.D. Candidate" but that seems just bizarre by this point.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:51 PM
horizontal rule
104

103: 2000-2005 Pursuing a deer.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 1:55 PM
horizontal rule
105

What do you do once you catch up to the deer?

You haul it home on your shoulders.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:00 PM
horizontal rule
106

Posh doesn't necessarily mean rich, a distinction that has taken me a long time to figure out

See Fussell's Class for more on this in the American context.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:00 PM
horizontal rule
107

105: Alive?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:03 PM
horizontal rule
108

103: "Research Assistant," assuming that's not too far from the truth. "Graduate Research Assistant" is probably more true but less pleasing.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:04 PM
horizontal rule
109

107: you asked for a workout, didn't you?


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:06 PM
horizontal rule
110

9
But all mine is modern cheapass Lodge.

Wait, Lodge is modern and cheapass? Wow, I'm not SWPL at all, I'm 90 percent sure that we have a Lodge castiron pan and only use it when (a) a recipe requires a pan that can go in the oven or (b) it's a special occasion and unfamiliar recipe that calls for the pan and I want to do it juuust right - I might use it more, but the damn thing is so heavy, and has to be cleaned ASAP. It's annoying.

Or are you just saying that Lodge used to be good but has gone downhill and some people were into them before they were cool?


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:06 PM
horizontal rule
111

103: I use "Graduate Studies in [field]."


Posted by: Bave | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:06 PM
horizontal rule
112

108: I was a GTA and a GRA at the time. I have those listed in positions. It's the education section where I don't know what to do with this.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:08 PM
horizontal rule
113

111 is probably what I need. Thanks.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:08 PM
horizontal rule
114

Moby are you on the job market?


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:09 PM
horizontal rule
115

Also, do I really have to be the person who says "holy shit?!" to the $280 nine-inch skillet linked in the OP?


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:11 PM
horizontal rule
116

No.
No.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:12 PM
horizontal rule
117

Lodge is genuinely not that expensive -- a quick look online says 20-25 bucks for a 10 or 12 inch skillet. And I don't know of a lower quality brand. Which is to say that I didn't mean to impugn Lodge exactly, that's all I've ever used, it's just that it's the brand I'm familiar with as the cheap stuff.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:12 PM
horizontal rule
118

Apparently, somebody wants to know what I've done.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:12 PM
horizontal rule
119

Other than the neighbors.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:17 PM
horizontal rule
120

If I read the link will it explain to me why artisanal cast iron is worth in excess of 10x as much as a factory-produced skillet from Lodge?


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:19 PM
horizontal rule
121

Not convincingly, no.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:19 PM
horizontal rule
122

I knew a musician in North Essex, where the woods are full of deer, who always kept supermarket carrier bags in the boot of his car so that if he hit one he could suffocate it and take the carcase home and pop the good bits in the deep freeze. I thought this was a joke until he showed me the stand he had built in his back garden to hang the carcase on while butchering it.

There was some legal reason for putting the plastic bag over the head of a wounded animal until it was dead. I can't remember whether it was that you weren't allowed to take home animals you had killed in your car, or whether you weren't allowed to kill them if they hadn't died, in which case suffocation mysteriously didn't count.

HIs keyboard player went to jail for for kid/die fid/dling. I left the band pictures up on flickr, though.


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:24 PM
horizontal rule
123

I half want to buy one because I have an instinctive belief that no one could have the audacity to sell something so ordinary for such an outrageous price unless it truly was markedly superior to the less expensive, widely available alternatives. But boy have I gotten burned by following that instinct before.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:25 PM
horizontal rule
124

You could buy a $30 bottle opener as a trial.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:28 PM
horizontal rule
125

I already have a $38 bottle opener that I bought by following the same instinct. (Not from this company.) I was not that impressed.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:31 PM
horizontal rule
126

Lodge is fine. Maybe you need a little more oil; that also is fine.

also, Pyrex pie and loaf tins are completely satisfactory.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:35 PM
horizontal rule
127

And if they had died you still couldn't kill them!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:39 PM
horizontal rule
128

If PubMed Central keeps putting a city name in after a journal title, do I have to keep it in there? Nobody in the field is going to not know what journal I'm talking about and the city is Hoboken.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:40 PM
horizontal rule
129

Incidentally, I hear that the seasoning you get with flax oil is pretty brittle and scrapes off easily.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:42 PM
horizontal rule
130

Do your sources recommend a preferable oil? I have an omelette pan that's got some crud on it, that I'm considering stripping and reseasoning, and her method sounded persuasive. But if you know something better, I'm all ears.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:50 PM
horizontal rule
131

103: "ABD"?


Posted by: Scomber mix | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:54 PM
horizontal rule
132

I very very very much doubt that your pan is so cruddy that you need to strip it, in the first place.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 2:59 PM
horizontal rule
133

It is cruddy to the point of being unsmooth, and has been for ages. It used to be super smooth (this is not a Lodge, but something spiffy Mom dragged home from Paris in the sixties), but a friend burned shit on it that I have been unable to get off without extreme measures, such that it is rough now, and things stick. It's still usable, but I think it'd profit from a fresh start.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 3:06 PM
horizontal rule
134

Confit one duck leg?


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 3:11 PM
horizontal rule
135

In an omelette pan? I might be able to confit a chicken cutlet, but anything much thicker than that wouldn't submerge.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 3:16 PM
horizontal rule
136

was a joke! just sling in a bunch of good slippy fat (lard, ghee, goose, duck) and start frying stuff. or wait for someone less jokey and impatient for more technically dreary ideas.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 3:20 PM
horizontal rule
137

confit two quail legs.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 3:21 PM
horizontal rule
138

Four frog legs, confit au Kermit!


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 3:23 PM
horizontal rule
139

watercress garnish, of course.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 3:24 PM
horizontal rule
140

Three kitten legs


Posted by: Opinionated Isle of Manx | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 3:24 PM
horizontal rule
141

I've used 111, though I also got a bullshitty consolation masters and just say that I took three years to do that and non-academic employers don't know or care at all.


Posted by: T"R"O | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 3:25 PM
horizontal rule
142

131: I sort of got used to that being a joke. Anyway, I don't want to call too much attention to my not getting a degree that isn't especially relevant.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 3:26 PM
horizontal rule
143

Ahhh, happy memories of the grenouille variation: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RUHVCninhGA


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 3:28 PM
horizontal rule
144

|| I'm in Berkeley. Chance of a meetup tomorrow evening?
|>


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 3:29 PM
horizontal rule
145

I got my bullshit consolation masters and then left and then went back. The second period is what I am having trouble listing.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 3:29 PM
horizontal rule
146

I didn't file for my bullshit non-consolation masters until I dropped out. So it looks like I did nothing for 4-5 years before getting the MA when it should look like I did nothing for 5 years after getting the MA.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 3:36 PM
horizontal rule
147

I'm not worried about gaps. I had jobs during nearly all this period. I need to be accurate for legal reasons and would prefer not to go out of my way to point out that I'm the least qualified person involved.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 3:41 PM
horizontal rule
148

why artisanal cast iron is worth in excess of 10x as much

Depends on what's important to you. I was just in a store that carried the other very expensive artisanal stuff (the octagonal ones) and they really are gorgeous, and the smoothed finish feels nothing like the Lodge the store also carries. Is that worth 10x as much? Is it being prettier worth 10x as much? Not to most people, but to some. Smoother finish: same. There's also the notion of supporting these artisanal endeavors. It matters a lot to some people, not much to others. Ditto the Borough brand having a relatively small environmental footprint. Which is all to say that if you focus on how your food will turn out, it's nothing like worth 10x as much; if the other stuff matters to you, and you have the money, and it makes you feel a little better to have something prettier, or to support specific people, or make a meaningless but nice gesture toward environmental responsibility...maybe!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 3:45 PM
horizontal rule
149

Buying a used one on ebay has an even smaller environmental footprint, probably.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 3:58 PM
horizontal rule
150

a relatively small environmental footprint

Organic coal?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 4:02 PM
horizontal rule
151

Some of the cast iron on ebay is absurdly expensive!!! O

M

G


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 4:06 PM
horizontal rule
152

Some of them are "pre-Erie" Griswold pans that aren't really meant for cooking anymore; they're purely collectors' items.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 4:14 PM
horizontal rule
153

Oh, you'll always know your neighbor, you'll always know your pal, if you've ever cooked a tater on a pre-Erie enamel.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 4:19 PM
horizontal rule
154

That's reassuring, in a way.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 4:19 PM
horizontal rule
155

130: lard! Blume can tell you about how to render the leaf lard (didn't seem that hard?) and after that piece of lard-cake.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 4:19 PM
horizontal rule
156

It depends so much on who you listen to. Everyone who has an opinions seems to claim something different, but definitely not what the other guy recommends!

The linked post recommends something like six coats of seasoning. It's still brittle after that? Mightn't the opposite of brittle be goopy? Don't ask me.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 4:39 PM
horizontal rule
157

The linked post mentions that lard was traditional but that it is allegedly hard to get lard with the right characteristics now: LIES.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 4:44 PM
horizontal rule
158

Is it lies? She says pigs today don't eat their natural diet. Was your pig different? I confess I don't know what a pig's natural diet is. Deadwood taught me that pigs eat criminals.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 4:49 PM
horizontal rule
159

It was "Some Pig".


Posted by: Opinionated Charlotte | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 4:51 PM
horizontal rule
160

Having briefly googled the pig's natural diet, I'm skeptical that any pork you had came from a pig eating its natural diet, unless the pork cost a million dollars. Maybe that doesn't really make a difference when you're seasoning a pan, but that's the distinction she was relying on.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 4:54 PM
horizontal rule
161

158: our pig grew up at nose-to-tail acres where it abstained from antibiotics, learned the full waldorf curriculum and ate biodynamic acorns, as far as I know. I can't imagine its diet was so terribly different from the diet of the pigs of yesteryear, and no matter how fancy a hipster butcher you go to leaf lard is not expensive.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 4:54 PM
horizontal rule
162

Does flax today grow the same way it did 100 years ago?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 4:57 PM
horizontal rule
163

Mais où sont les cochons d'antan?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 5:06 PM
horizontal rule
164

162: not in a way we can understand it.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 5:07 PM
horizontal rule
165

unless the pork cost a million dollars

This is in fact approximately what pork costs at this butcher shop.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 5:09 PM
horizontal rule
166

OT: I forgot to bcc instead of cc. Does that make the resulting shitstorm my fault or that of the people who hit "reply all" without thinking?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 5:15 PM
horizontal rule
167

51: How much does that 17 inch cast iron skillet weigh?

Almost 15 pounds

See, this is why I don't use the two cast iron skillets I do have (from grandma): the smaller one isn't so bad, though it's really too small for much, but the larger one just weighs a ton. I like to be light on my feet - and hands and really wrists - when cooking.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 5:44 PM
horizontal rule
168

161: Pig like that, you don't eat all at once. (But of course, people don't eat any pig all at once except at a luau or something like that.)


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 6:05 PM
horizontal rule
169

167: This is the pan, and this is the reason for the pan. Though I guess I've used it for a couple of other things as well.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 6:08 PM
horizontal rule
170

The linked post mentions that lard was traditional but that it is allegedly hard to get lard with the right characteristics now: LIES.

I lost respect for the author's authority when I read, "If it's conventional bacon, you're baking in carcinogenic nitrates."


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 6:17 PM
horizontal rule
171

I see.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 6:21 PM
horizontal rule
172

Why would anyone use smoked fat for seasoning a raw pan anyways? Very strange.

It is,true I've always had a weakness for linseed oil, I think of it as the most Zolaesque oil because of the potential for spontaneous combustion, but its been a romance from afar.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 6:22 PM
horizontal rule
173

If the pig eats anything aside from organic truffles, you might as well just spray down your cast iron with Pam.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 6:24 PM
horizontal rule
174


The question is, what turned ogged away from Le Creuset enamelware and back to cast iron?


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 6:32 PM
horizontal rule
175

I still have that. I don't much use it just because most of my cooking these days uses a wok. I'm not really in the market for cast iron, unless I find something used for cheap and my wife has a great Wagner cast iron that she uses for most things.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 6:43 PM
horizontal rule
176

I re-seasoned my cast iron skillet this evening, due to this thread. Thanks, blog.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 6:45 PM
horizontal rule
177

175: Do you have a burner that can achieve Chinese-restaurant hot?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 6:58 PM
horizontal rule
178

Sadly, no. It's fakery all the way down.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 7:02 PM
horizontal rule
179

a wok. I'm not really in the market for cast iron

Because you already have a cast-iron wok????


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 7:53 PM
horizontal rule
180

No way, brah, carbon steel for woks. So it is written.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 8:05 PM
horizontal rule
181

Inherited our skillet, 11 3/4", from a great aunt about 25 years ago. We use it several times a week, and in fact used it to cook cheeseburgers Sunday night. It was sitting out on the stovetop waiting to be put away today, after I'd cleaned it last night. Rubbed with kosher salt as an abrasive, rinsed out, no soap, wiped dry.

I'd never looked at the marking before today. It's a Wagner Ware. Made after 1959, because no Sydney -O- marking, so not collectable, but no "Textron" so before 1969. Probably made in Cincinnati about fifty years ago, in continuous use since, certainly the last half of its life so far.


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 8:08 PM
horizontal rule
182

||
Equivocalicious:

"As an array of unexpected sounds is heard, the instrument is seen from a fresh perspective, and the audience is confronted with a novel way of perceiving time."

Perhaps Moby can work this onto his CV somehow.
|>


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 8:32 PM
horizontal rule
183

it has always been a joke that the thing my brother and I will fight over after my dad dies are his pans. (including loaf pans, he has some great ones.) the best maybe is the old griddle, cast-iron and about 8" across, totally flat and a very small lip at the edge. it's for making hoe-cakes or grilled-cheese sandwiches (which, according to my dad's preparation, are "flat as a communion wafer." this can be easily achieved by putting the spatula on there and bearing down hard.) pancakes also, I suppose. his cast-iron omelette pan is the next-best, curved sides and a lifetime of seasoning that gives it a non-stick finish. one time my step-brother cooked a cheeseburger in there and my dad about died.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:09 PM
horizontal rule
184

182: still tho Hübsch is great.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:11 PM
horizontal rule
185

The Bluties agree.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:12 PM
horizontal rule
186

The person in the linked thread asserting lard had no discernible flavor clearly never worked in kitchens that rendered a LOT of lard on a weekly basis. In its early stages of rendering it has a very piggy barnyardy smell and when finished properly the perfume of caramelized pork, just like proper ghee is perfume of ethereally carmelized butter.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:18 PM
horizontal rule
187

185: One of them, anyway.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:22 PM
horizontal rule
188

I will likely be missing his performance with sfSound on the 18th at C4NM, sadly. (Did you ever wonder why the Center for New Music uses the number 4 instead of the letter F in its abbreviation?)


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:25 PM
horizontal rule
189

133: Do you have a self-cleaning oven?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 9:56 PM
horizontal rule
190

186: jealous. just now was chinese new year's (I mean, everywhere, obviously) so my favorite place made their best cookies. I was kind of trapped outside the country and then my daughter was in the hospital as you all heard ad nauseam, so I did not get any pineapple tarts, almond cookies, or pineapple-filled rounds, because they were all sold out by the time I made it to my place and they had re-opened after CNY. HOWEVER when I went, the ancient proprietor, mindful of my 14-year-long dedication to their shop, directed me to some curious green-flecked cookies (which I initially assumed were savory). in fact, he gave me buy one get one (aka two for one) which was super-sweet of him. they turned out to be delicious. they had irregularly-sized ground nubbins and flecks of dried green peas in the dough used for the almond cookies (sans almonds), rolled out and cut into flowers. the bakery uses only lard, and so the cookies are shatteringly flaky, and may require a glass of liquid at hand to ease their passage down one's gullet.

sadly they make cookies only in the run-up to CNY, and kueh the rest of the year. really good kueh, but still. they have savory ones with sticky rice dough encasing a homemade stuffing of bamboo shoots, meant to be eaten with a special sauce of soy, chiles, and other stuff. this is what they're most popular for and highly rated on local guides as maybe the best in narnia. then they have sweet kueh which I prefer, color coded as to fillings, with the glutinous rice exterior red for peanut filling, purple for yam, white with black sesame for same, um...lotus paste is pink...other ones, idk. each piece only 75c. value for money very good one, what. god damn I wish they made cookies all year, though. they're by no means cheap, but they are absolutely worth it. they don't taste in any way porky, and I didn't know it was lard until just five years ago.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:24 PM
horizontal rule
191

I totally believe you, neb, but that line made me laugh out loud. Similarly, a blurb a few years ago for an academic title that "reminds us how the insights of a literary way of thinking to the assessment of geopolitical history are inimitable."

I did NOT SEASON the cast-iron pot tonight HA HA HA downward mobility ho! (Or something. I can't remember what SWPL is actually shorthand for. My understanding is that white people categorically dislike downward mobility, however.)

alameida! I keep meaning to ask you if you've heard the most recent Neko Case record. Portions of it made me think of you, for reasons that probably can't be justified and may indeed be based on misunderstanding, but there it is. I am willing to officially declare it to be pretty great, although ugh positive value judgments in public I'll regret this someday. I hope your daughter is recovering, or has recovered.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 03- 9-15 10:52 PM
horizontal rule
192

I can't remember what SWPL is actually shorthand for.

"The things that we middle-class white people hate about ourselves." (More or less.)


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 12:32 AM
horizontal rule
193

104: 2006 - Exit, pursued by a bear.


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 2:37 AM
horizontal rule
194

re: 177

I tend to think that's over-rated anyway. We have an ordinary [albeit fairly chunky] gas cooker, and I've never felt a desperate need for more heat when cooking with a wok.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 7:05 AM
horizontal rule
195

And our wok is just an ordinary cheap carbon steel one, bought from a Chinese supermarket. And is just fine.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 7:05 AM
horizontal rule
196

I got an iron one from the wok shop only because it has a flat bottom and doesn't need a ring.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 7:34 AM
horizontal rule
197

wok is just an ordinary cheap carbon steel one

This is the preferred wok of the woknoscenti.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 7:38 AM
horizontal rule
198

183: When our grandparents died, my brother, cousins, and I all wanted their ebelskiever pans. It took a great deal of wrestling, but I was victorious.

It's not something I cook frequently, but it does reliably make me think of them when I do cook them up. I didn't get the ice pick they used to use to turn the little tasty eggs, but I can improvise that.


Posted by: Mooseking | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 7:53 AM
horizontal rule
199

We have an ebelskiever pan. I have not idea why beyond the general tendency of things from Williams Sonoma to show up in the house.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 7:56 AM
horizontal rule
200

Huh, I'm not sure my mom has an ebelskiever pan, despite being Danish and enjoying cooking. If I get her one as a present, would it be a good, thoughtful gift? Or would it be like that time I got her a waffle iron because I liked waffles?


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 8:06 AM
horizontal rule
201

We're not Danish, but my neighbor is.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 8:08 AM
horizontal rule
202

How does he feel about making waffles?


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 8:11 AM
horizontal rule
203

We have a load of Zepter pans, which my wife's family bought us as a wedding gift. Loads still in storage in the Czech Republic as we've never quite been able to relay them all back to the UK.

http://www.zepter.co.uk/MainMenu/Products/HomeArt/MasterpieceCookware/Sets-.aspx

They are nicely made. Not cast iron, though.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 8:18 AM
horizontal rule
204

202: Uncertain.


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 8:19 AM
horizontal rule
205

Argh. My netnanny just blocked me out of the frat thread. It's gone back and forth a couple of times, so it might start letting me back in, but for now it's too dirty to read.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 8:50 AM
horizontal rule
206

Blame ogged and his boundary testing.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 8:53 AM
horizontal rule
207

It's entirely ogged's fault.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 8:53 AM
horizontal rule
208

192 seems too broad, though. As used here it seems to mean something more like "post-hipster wave of gentrifiers who made the neighborhood boring."


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:09 AM
horizontal rule
209

Were you not here yet at the time of the great swipple wars (which were all based on a blog listing Stuff White People Like)? I would tendentiously summarize the whole thing as "Hey, if we list a whole bunch of hipster/post-hipster white-people lifestyle generalizations on the same list as a bunch of racial microaggressions, we can make people edgy and upset while they worry that the presence of 'stand mixers' on the list means it's racist to make cookies."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:16 AM
horizontal rule
210

I can't remember if I wasn't here for that or if I just managed to ignore it. I'm comfortable with my middleclassness.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:21 AM
horizontal rule
211

The SWPL argument (#notallwhitepeople) was the dumbest extended discussion here, only superseded by the "is it wrong to cheat on your spouse?" discussion.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:23 AM
horizontal rule
212

I don't even see dumb.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:24 AM
horizontal rule
213

Depends what kind of cookies, right?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:26 AM
horizontal rule
214

"The things that we middle-class white people hate about ourselves." (More or less.)

Things you middle-class white people hate about yourselves, please.

Interesting (to me) how "hipster" is basically the new "yuppie" even though it really didn't start off that way.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:27 AM
horizontal rule
215

214.last: I'd also wondered about that.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:28 AM
horizontal rule
216

But, ogged, would you characterize the original site as "good trolling" or "bad trolling," given that it led to such a terrible discussion? I think I was lurking at that point but I have truly lost track of all the semantic slippage involved. However, I am flattered by 209 because I never make cookies and will now consider myself down with the gente. (But isn't the word "guante"?*)

*if someone sincerely corrects me here I will either cry or finally accept that I've taken the naïf act way too far


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:29 AM
horizontal rule
217

213 to 211?


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:30 AM
horizontal rule
218

209 is the best summary of SWPL I've seen. Was the phrase "racial micro-aggression" not available at the time?


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:31 AM
horizontal rule
219

214.2: As I recall, by the mid/late 80s even major mainstream films were slamming yuppies (Die Hard for example).

By contrast, hipster hate seems more grass roots.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:31 AM
horizontal rule
220

Obvs


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:32 AM
horizontal rule
221

209 is the best summary of SWPL I've seen. Was the phrase "racial micro-aggression" not available at the time?

Someone needs to turn "stand mixer" into a verb signifying the commission of a racial micro-aggression.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:33 AM
horizontal rule
222

It might be that hipster schtick happenstantially lent itself to being coopted by affluent professionals in a way prior youf-culture trends didn't; as a fashion statement, it's very office-friendly. At which point you've got lot of people who are young-urban-professionals, if not eighties-style yuppies, doing the hipster thing, and it becomes easy to conflate the categories.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:36 AM
horizontal rule
223

(and I'm back out of the frat thread. I hate these borderline netnanny decisions -- I turn into even more of a rat on crack than usual. "Can I read it now? What about now?")


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:37 AM
horizontal rule
224

I was just up at my non-university office and reminded how much more effort the younger men there put into grooming and clothing than I ever did. I don't really see this at my university office because it's all women, old men, and graduate students.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:38 AM
horizontal rule
225

Also, the mall nearest to my house now has a Carhartt store. It's right next to Victoria's Secret.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:41 AM
horizontal rule
226

as a fashion statement, it's very office-friendly

Not really with the wild beards.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:42 AM
horizontal rule
227

222: demographics, no? Very big swath of that age group going to college and getting the obligatory professional jobs afterwards, often in cities? Also I think once the focus shifted in the media from "artist" to "artisan" it was easier to see it as an economic phenomenon.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:44 AM
horizontal rule
228

226: That might not work for lawyers, but there are a great number of them around the office I was at this morning.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:45 AM
horizontal rule
229

Interesting (to me) how "hipster" is basically the new "yuppie" even though it really didn't start off that way.

Yuppie didn't start off that way, either.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:45 AM
horizontal rule
230

226: Oh, there are hipster looks that aren't -- like you say, wild beards, there are probably tattoo and piercing choices that'd read as hipster but still scare the drones. But if you were actively trying to reconcile hipster and office appropriate, it wouldn't be hard at all.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:46 AM
horizontal rule
231

I feel like 230 is trying to inappropriately conflate "Hipster" and "Twee".


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:48 AM
horizontal rule
232

Twipster?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:51 AM
horizontal rule
233

I feel that urple is banned!


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:51 AM
horizontal rule
234

The ultra-defensive SWPL discussion was the best. How dare you mildly stereotype me and poke a little fun for purchasing a stand mixer! I'm not a type! What about black people who buy stand mixers! Don't you know that this class that doesnt exist is the backbone of modern US liberalism!


Posted by: Tim "Ripper" Owens | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:53 AM
horizontal rule
235

The Evolution of the Hipster, 2000-2009. This needs an update for the last five years, but it's not completely irrelevant.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:53 AM
horizontal rule
236

Lee and I had lunch in a gentrifying neighborhood this weekend and it was really disconcerting and upsetting (in part because it's where one daughter's family lived for a long time before almost all being driven out in the last few years) to see all these hipster pretzel and doughnut shops and curated t-shirt stores and no black people except on the outskirts where change hasn't happened yet. It really made my stomach drop even though I am and should feel complicit in some of that. Just there's a tipping point and then it's too late and ugh.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:55 AM
horizontal rule
237

Oh man would I kill to have a hipster pretzel shop in the neighborhood.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:58 AM
horizontal rule
238

235 matches what I see in terms of who has the tattoos. That is, I don't see many tats on young men and I see a lot of them on young women. I realize this could be biased because women's clothing tends to show more skin and because I'm more likely to look that way.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 9:59 AM
horizontal rule
239

urple is history's greater pretzel-related monster.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:00 AM
horizontal rule
240

Are pretzels a thing now?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:00 AM
horizontal rule
241

Dammit now I really want donuts.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:00 AM
horizontal rule
242

236,237: Is it the entire idea of selling pretzels from a shop instead of a cart that makes it hipster? Or is there something else?


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:00 AM
horizontal rule
243

241: I stopped eating donuts on donut Fridays, because I thought they made me feel even worse. But now I officially have nothing in common with my co-workers.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:02 AM
horizontal rule
244

Why do Friday donuts make you feel worse than Thursday donuts?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:04 AM
horizontal rule
245

242: If I were going to guess, there's nothing innately hipster about pretzels, cart or shop. Thorn is talking about a pretzel shop that has hipster signifiers like being run by young white tattooed people who talk about how handmade everything is.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:06 AM
horizontal rule
246

They probably make the pretzel dough with a stand mixer.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:09 AM
horizontal rule
247

242: It seemed to be staffed and populated entirely by hipsters when I walked by, but I've never known it existed and so I don't really have room to assume. It seems to have become an entirely hipster-based neighborhood, though as noted above it's kind of unkind to make that judgment and I do in fact have many friends who live, party, and fit right in there. Probably I could too. It was just really unnerving and I'm trying to figure out how I feel about it.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:13 AM
horizontal rule
248

How does a pretzel shop with that many employees even survive?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:14 AM
horizontal rule
249

Yes, I assume "hipster pretzel shop" just means "'artisanal' pretzel shop, run by a young person who seems to think it only takes three months of dabbling in a craft to earn the moniker 'artisan'."


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:15 AM
horizontal rule
250

249 before seeing 247, but seeing 247 does not cause me to reconsider 249.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:16 AM
horizontal rule
251

Like I said, Mobes, I'd never heard of it, but most of them are at pretzel central in peep's neck of the woods. They only branched out here in the last six months or so.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:18 AM
horizontal rule
252

They have a branch in Columbus. I could walk over during my lunch hour and get a lemon basil blueberry pretzel!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:19 AM
horizontal rule
253

The farmer's market around the corner from our house (which, sure, whatever, call it hipster, I don't care. There are man buns and beardsin evidence) has veered so far from things that come from actual farms that it sort of cracks me up. Last weekend we got donuts, frito pie, booze and coffee. Farm fresh!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:20 AM
horizontal rule
254

248. I was just looking at the website that hosted the professionally photographed and nicely typeset image in 235.

What are the economics of Paste magazine and its linked websites? The owners are not clearly identified, one of the linked websites streams live music recorded in their studios by real bands. Somebody's been putting money into this for many years, since before the recession. Is the website like a loss-making lifestyle expression storefront? But the owners are anonymous.

Nothing against the images or the recordings, they're nice enough, but clearly a scale of production different from a nicely done tumblr page or a blog of well-written snark with haphazard images. Where does the money come from and why, and who actually decides how high the production values should be?


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:23 AM
horizontal rule
255

253: Well I mean look outside your window. What could grow in those conditions?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:23 AM
horizontal rule
256

I really have nothing against the pretzel shop, which I'm sure has good pretzels! It just seemed like a signifier more than when it was hipster diners or the hipster friend chicken bar (where the fried chicken was really, really good and it's going to sound really racist to say that there were a good number of black people there but there were) that now there's this vital community initially that hoped to coexist with the white Appalachian and black residents who'd been there before and yet every little artisanal popsicle shop has probably chipped away at that potential outcome a little more. But I'm not saying this because I love ghettos and urban blight either.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:23 AM
horizontal rule
257

248: One of them is listed as a stay-at-home mom, so... are they even all employees? It's confusing.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:26 AM
horizontal rule
258

hoped to coexist with the white Appalachian...residents

It feels like the ultimate obnoxious move under these circumstances would be to open an artisanal moonshine bar.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:27 AM
horizontal rule
259

that now there's this vital community initially that hoped to coexist with the white Appalachian and black residents who'd been there before and yet every little artisanal popsicle shop has probably chipped away at that potential outcome a little more.

I wish I understood this kind of thing better. Adorable businesses move in-rents go up-poor/minority residents move out makes sense to me. But is there a more direct way in which adorable businesses chip away at the pre-existing communities? It feels as if there is, but I don't really get it. Replacement of more community-appropriate retail? Or something else?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:27 AM
horizontal rule
260

255: things are melting, man! I saw some special greenish-brown under the normal greyish-black snow yesterday and eventually realized it was honest-to-god grass.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:28 AM
horizontal rule
261

257: I would read that as someone who identifies as a SAHM, but has a part time job.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:28 AM
horizontal rule
262

There are man buns

It cracks me up that this is now a hipster identifier. When I think "man bun" I generally think "Latin soccer player". But then I guess there's probably some overlap in those demographics.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:28 AM
horizontal rule
263

IME a big part of the dynamic of gentrifying neighborhoods is a trinity of absentee landlords, sketchy local gov't, and section 8 housing.

Once this trio is in place, local community has a much harder time thriving, property values drop until developers can come in, to the benefit of the sketchy alderman. The countervailing force against this is longtime residents who are usually churchgoers.

My claim is that the hipsters/ artists are basically economically peripheral, even if they are who is visible from the street. I say this based on Chicago and Saint Louis neighborhood revivals or failures that I've seen enough of to think about, regional dynamics may differ.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:45 AM
horizontal rule
264

263 seems very accurate, and I've seen all of this from the outside. To 259, though, initially businesses would try to get buy-in from the involved locals, churchgoers and otherwise, and hire from the neighborhood, provide formal mentoring opportunities for local students, set things up to let people use food stamps when possible, that sort of thing with a focus on coexistence. I don't think that's even part of the equation for a lot of the newest businesses where the people coming to the neighborhood never knew the neighborhood before it gentrified and don't have or wouldn't know how to make connections there except with other gentrifiers/hipsters, some of the latter of whom are of course poor too.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:51 AM
horizontal rule
265

What does "section 8 housing" mean in this context?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 10:59 AM
horizontal rule
266

This seems like the right thread for an OT public service announcement that criterion collection is currently having a 24-hour 50% off flash sale.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 11:04 AM
horizontal rule
267

265: I'm assuming it goes with the absentee landlords, that they're getting government money to provide non-government-owned low-income housing, and in many cases don't bother to keep the properties in good shape. Section 8 is rent vouchers for people who qualify because of income, age, or disability status.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 11:05 AM
horizontal rule
268

If you're poor enough, you qualify for a housing subsidy under section 8 of some law. The landlord may either be OK, maybe making a few units in a building section 8 and doing some maintenance, or he may be an inspector-bribing slumlord. In the latter case, any tenants who have their shit together will leave, so section 8 + slumlord means junkies.

Or are you asking to be "funny?"


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 11:05 AM
horizontal rule
269

Or are you asking to be "funny?"

I don't know what this would mean either.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 11:07 AM
horizontal rule
270

Anyhow, I know what Section 8 is. I wanted to know if you meant project-based section 8, housing projects that accept vouchers but are in theory mixed-income, of if you were just conflating it with low-income or subsidized housing per se. It sounds like it was something between options two and three. Either way I think blaming gentrification on low-income housing is pretty shitty (and not true in my experience) but I mostly wanted clarification on what specifically you meant.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 11:12 AM
horizontal rule
271

We watched Il Sorpasso on Sunday night as a last minute pick as my stepson joined us so subtitles were favored and that is one great movie with a fabulous end. Not sure I'd buy it but highly recommended for rental. Worth watching for the priests asking for help in Latin alone, wonderful shot of the dewy, plump cheeked young priest following our hero's in their way. And the record player in the glove box!!!!


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 11:13 AM
horizontal rule
272

270 to 268. It seems like maybe I'm being uncharitable, that the real problem is absentee landlords plus Section 8, but to be honest I'm not entirely clear why a slumlord who has the additional layer of complexity of dealing with (sure, maybe bribeable) inspectors and HUD and whoever is going to be worse than a slumlord that just rents market-rate units. In Boston as best I can tell all the worst (that is, shadiest, least concerned with conditions) slumlords rent to students, who are obviously not getting vouchers.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 11:16 AM
horizontal rule
273

"the real problem" in 272 should be "the real problem lw intended to highlight"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 11:17 AM
horizontal rule
274

heroes on their way


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 11:18 AM
horizontal rule
275

270: I guess I see it as the difference between a neighborhood like mine, where old houses had gotten dilapidated and often split into multifamily rentals before new residents got a historical district named and bit by bit its acceptability as a place for UMC people increased but still maybe 1/3 of my block is either reasonably-priced rentals or people who've lived here for 30+ years (up through four generations), and the gentrified area I was talking about, where there were actual race riots and very low home ownership rates even if families had been living in the area for a long time. In the latter case, slumlords preying on poor people were a key part of what led to the area's hard times and gentrification was a response to what was seen as a failed neighborhood. Nia's grandmother is appalled by all the bars and doesn't eat at any of the restaurants and considers them out of her price range, though getting an actual grocery store into the neighborhood has to be a plus for long-time residents like her.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 11:19 AM
horizontal rule
276

275: yeah, I definitely get the slumlords piece. But I think the conflation of slumlords and Section 8 rentals, or the view of Section 8 as an enabler for slumlords, is at best a reductionist view of what Section 8 is and does and shades -- for me -- uncomfortably close to arguing that government-subsidized housing for low-income people is per se bad for neighborhoods. Maybe I'm reading too much in on a topic where I have sensitivies!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 11:22 AM
horizontal rule
277

Anyhow, I know what Section 8 is.

This is what I meant by "funny." If there are junkies, gentrification is unlikely, because the first rehabbers will get their plumbing and equipment stolen. I understand that not all section 8 tenants are shitty, and that decent section 8 buildings exist.

My main point is that you can't tell what's going on just by looking at what kind of hipster shops open up, and to outline one way rehabbing gentrification can fail. Feel free to tell me what I think if you prefer.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 11:23 AM
horizontal rule
278

275: I know I don't mean it that way! I think having more section 8 housing in more diverse locations rather than centralized in, well, a slum owned by slumlords, has pretty clearly been shown to be the way to go. The problem is not poor people getting government subsidies (again, huge fan!) but limiting the options they have to spend those subsidies to people and locations working against their interests. Is that any clearer?


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 11:24 AM
horizontal rule
279

Is Section 8 housing standing in there as a signifier of intense poverty rather than mild poverty? That a neighborhood with a lot of Section 8 housing is vulnerable to predatory development not because of any negative effect of Section 8 itself but because it's a stand-in for a neighborhood with very low levels of community organization and political power?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 11:27 AM
horizontal rule
280

Oh, and I disagree with large parts of 277. But also everyone I know with a house left empty for any significant amount of time gets their plumbing and equipment stolen because heroin. I was seeing it as the section 8-slumlord connection, which is meaningful here because so many suburbs have been unwilling to welcome decent section 8 apartments or public housing complexes and drag their feet and put it off in zoning as long as possible while the people who are eligible for those theoretical buildings have to live elsewhere.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 11:28 AM
horizontal rule
281

279 is right, but I also want to elaborate.

Low income housing in cities where you can buy a liveable house for under $100,000 is a bit different from what you might have experienced on the coast. I went to a talk a guy was giving about Youngstown. The process (which in this case lead to massive depopulation instead of gentrification) was for housing prices to drop low enough that owners could ignore the value of their units in terms of fixed capital. That is, they can buy another house for less than the cost of a significant repair so the house is leased until it is abandoned in such condition that its value is negative. And, since HUD and the county don't have well-aligned incentives, HUD doesn't require the owner be current on property taxes. Thus, the owner has probably not been paying property taxes because he knows it will take longer for the county to seize the house than it will for the house to be abandoned anyway.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 11:29 AM
horizontal rule
282

This is what I meant by "funny."

Yeah, I'm still at a loss. I asked you what Section 8 meant in this context. It's a large program that has operated in different ways at different times and means different things to different people, as I mentioned. And it seemed like, in fact, you meant something pretty specific by it, which you were successfully able to clarify.

But since you seem to have a strong prior that I'm being mean to you -- there, that's what you think -- I'll happily disengage.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 11:29 AM
horizontal rule
283

OT: I'm wondering if the guy on the call who put up his name as "Ali G" is making a deliberate joke or not.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 12:02 PM
horizontal rule
284

I see that 265 was an actual question and not casual snark, sorry for my initial misreading and my pissy response.

historical district Absolutely, improvement if this happens. One really nice neighborhood in StL got saved this way, is now pretty fancy. Actually, in that case, there was one guy who spearheaded the historic district designation and organized to keep DOT from bulldozing half the neighborhood.

In one Chicago neighborhood I know that hasn't recovered, there are three buildings on the same block owned by one problem guy; two blocks over, a large building stood empty for a year while unwinding the scam of a landlord who left the country after burying the building under construction loans. Those are both cases of a particular behind-the-scenes bad actor.

281 is interesting.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 12:13 PM
horizontal rule
285

281 seems like another argument for Georgist taxes.

There's a carhartts store in downtown Seattle, and I expect the cuts to converge to the fashionably useless. Pfui. But the Ben Meadows catalog now carries women's pants.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 03-10-15 12:49 PM
horizontal rule
286

We as a family have switched to using this cast iron skillet ( http://www.castirondirect.co.uk/cast-iron-skillet ) and we've never looked back, food has tasted better and its easy to clean, plus it lasts forever!

We've also got some other cast iron goods in the kitchen, seems all the fancy new tech on cookware doesn't beat good old fashioned iron!


Posted by: John | Link to this comment | 06-30-15 4:56 AM
horizontal rule