Re: Guest Post - Venezuela

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The first link.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 6:05 AM
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This blog post came across my Twitter feed https://theygocrunch.wordpress.com/2017/05/17/a-fresh-start/


Posted by: hydrobatidae | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 7:47 AM
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Reminds me of the horror stories of the Law of the Maximum.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 7:48 AM
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From my links log, this NY Times story about improvised gold prospecting and malaria!

If you're still celebrating Chavismo now, it's evidence you're not paying attention and you probably never did.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 8:06 AM
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OK so the cities are emptying out as the starving population hacks at crumbling riverbanks with sticks and dies in droves of malaria where once there was none. But what about the free violin lessons, eh?


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 8:07 AM
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4: reads like something from Year Zero. Except it wasn't imposed deliberately, just happened through incompetence and neglect and indifference.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 8:11 AM
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You'd think a certain British politician well-known for his support for Latin American causes ought to get some sort of aid drive going, no? Yes, I know he's busy right now, but the link is from August last.

Meanwhile Jean-Luc Mélénchon was literally campaigning for France to resign from NATO and sign a military alliance with Venezuela and Cuba.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 8:17 AM
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This is why I'm not a standard socialist (I'm sure there's variant democratic socialisms that I could get behind). When everything comes from and through what is functionally a single party state, there is no way to oppose the state's mistakes or corruption without opposing the state. And there is no counterweight power to the state except either a right wing opposition or an illegal/sanctioned left wing one. There's no way to exert power against corrupt or mistaken actions except either faction from within the state or riot from without. And while faction and riots are sometimes useful they are definitely last-line tactics - when they're all you've got, it's pretty terrible.

I think that part of the US left's response to Chavez was reactive due to the persistent lying about Venezuela in most mainstream and sorta-mainstream media. People would make all these claims about how terrible things were when they meant "the oligarchy doesn't run things and average people are doing a bit better", which was true for much of the 2000s. They'd rely on most Americans not understanding the situation.

But yeah, when Chavez attempted to pass that resolution to make himself basically president for life, I knew that things were off the rails. If you're a serious leader, you don't want to rule until you die of old age; you want to establish a functional means of succession and live long enough to see another person or two do a good job in office, because that's what guarantees the revolution.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 8:18 AM
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You'd think a certain British politician well-known for his support for Latin American causes ought to get some sort of aid drive going, no?

He may have been too busy removing every trace of him ever using the word "Venezuela" from his personal website.

Fortunately the Wayback Machine still has them.
http://web.archive.org/web/20151126082034/http://jeremycorbyn.org.uk:80/articles/venezuela/


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 8:26 AM
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That must have been written only as recently as 2007, as it refers to Tony Blair saying something in Parliament and he stepped down as an MP in June that year.

But yes, this doesn't look as clever now as it did then:

In a sense history is being played out to its fullest extent in Venezuela, where the Bolivarian revolution is in full swing and is providing inspiration across a whole continent.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 8:48 AM
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Funny thing is, for all its faults, Venezuela had pretty mad economic growth after the Bolivarian Revolution. A lot of that was driven by oil prices, but the redistribution of wealth played its part.

Where they fucked up was in not maintaining/investing in infrastructure, and not diversifying.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 9:05 AM
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The Dutch Disease.

I guess the Netherlands should be grateful they got an economic condition named after them. Usually "Nationality + Disease" refers to a STI.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 9:11 AM
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He was making speeches supporting Maduro as recently as June 2015.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/British-MP-Jeremy-Corbyn-Speaks-Out-For-Venezuela-20150605-0033.html

"When the Americans try to undermine Venezuela, things have moved on and the American political elite don't seem to understand that... Look at what has happened in Venezuela - is it that different from the way the government of Allende in Chile was treated in the 1970s? ... When we celebrate - and it is a cause for celebration - the achievements of Venezuela in jobs, in housing, in health, in education, and above all its role in the whole world as a completely different place, we recognise what they have achieved and what they are trying to achieve."


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 9:15 AM
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A lot of that was driven by oil prices, but the redistribution of wealth played its part.

Was there much redistribution of wealth? The Gini index looks fairly flat for the first few years of Chavez. (Annoyingly I can't find any more recent data.)

http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/venezuela/gini-index

And, as the Economist noted, there was a (small) drop in inequality all over LatAm at the same time:
http://www.economist.com/news/special-report/21564411-unequal-continent-becoming-less-so-gini-back-bottle


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 9:26 AM
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The Gini index looks fairly flat for the first few years of Chavez. (Annoyingly I can't find any more recent data.)

I would expect the Gini index to have declined quite a bit since then, if only due to the exodus of rich people from the country.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 9:34 AM
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One of my professors was a development economist who had a saying "After the Revolution, a poor country is still poor." Venezuela is not a poor country but all the way to the 1960s it had an oil dependent economy and not a hell of a lot of other significant economic activity going for it -- considerably worse than simple Dutch disease given Netherlands significant other economic activities beyond natural resource extraction.

Chavez's initial redistribution policies, not just economic but also political in terms of attempting to extend democratic political institutions to more than just voting, were long overdue. Pretty quickly after that it was just another flavour of caudillismo and even before the end he deserved the same fate that Franco, Pinochet, Peron, and Castro were able to differing extents to avoid.

The problem with US policy toward these characters and their like is that it often boils down to something like the caricatures from the Wall Street Journal editorial page: the "good ones" are patriots imposing necessary order (aka torture and brutal suppression of basic human rights) that may occasionally be excessive but is all directed to a good end; the "bad ones" are Stalinists ready to execute millions, which of course is something that Castro, Chavez, Maduro and even Mugabe have never done.


Posted by: No Longer Middle Aged Man | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 9:54 AM
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Venezuela is not a poor country but all the way to the 1960s it had an oil dependent economy and not a hell of a lot of other significant economic activity going for it

Actually it got even more dependent on oil under Chavez. Manufacturing (and there is some, and there used to be more) went down the tubes because of a lack of investment and the problems getting foreign currency for imported parts and tools.

the "bad ones" are Stalinists ready to execute millions, which of course is something that Castro, Chavez, Maduro and even Mugabe have never done.

Just tens of thousands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gukurahundi


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 10:11 AM
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I would expect the Gini index to have declined quite a bit since then, if only due to the exodus of rich people from the country.

That may have been balanced out by the simultaneous and much larger exodus of not-rich people from the country.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 10:13 AM
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Speaking of revolutions, I just learned Mieville is trying his hand at nonfiction - specifically the story of 1917 Russia. I'm intrigued. (The book is out, picking it up later.)


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 11:23 AM
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I found his fiction ponderous. I couldn't even get the part where Ahab talks about the whale eating his foot.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 11:27 AM
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The post linked in 2 was good, thank you.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 11:28 AM
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Speaking of revolutions, I just learned Mieville is trying his hand at nonfiction - specifically the story of 1917 Russia. I'm intrigued.

It's 50% off on Verso direct sale through the end of May. The amount of nostalgia for debating the dictatorship of the proletariat evidenced in their related sale this month is kind of I-can't-believe-professional-Leftists-are-still-having-this-debate:

http://www.versobooks.com/blogs/3116-the-russian-revolution-a-verso-reading-list


Posted by: Criminally Bulgur | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 12:04 PM
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I liked the part where Ahab sliced up all possible versions of the whale with his Possible Sword, though.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 12:05 PM
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I liked the part where Ahab lashed himself to the biomechanically constructed proletarian monstrosity.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 12:12 PM
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Cannot wait for right-wing coup and the mass killings which will somehow mysteriously not make the news in the U.S., unlike this.


Posted by: Asteele | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 1:07 PM
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I think that coup happened and failed a few years ago.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 1:09 PM
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Yeah it'll be good when there are enough people getting murdered to quiet that nagging little voice in you head that keeps suggesting you might have backed the wrong horse.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 1:14 PM
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In a number of articles, it's been explained that the -reason- Venezuela has such grave problems today, can be traced to its attempt to fix its exchange rate at an unrealistically high level. This effectively allows businesses that are allowed to sell bolivars for dollars, to make a killing, then convert back to bolivars on the black market, lather/rinse/repeat. Similarly for trade items.

My assessment was that the problem had -nothing- to do with socialism, and everything to do with corrupt capture of critical government functions by rent-farmers. Oh, and it's the rich who are doing the capturing, notwithstanding that they're all poor-mouthing at this point.


Posted by: Chet Murthy | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 1:14 PM
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The Mieville Russian Revolution book seems to have gotten good reviews from people besides the kind of people who would like it even if it was terrible as long as it spoke well of the revolution, so there's that.

We're probably looking at an ongoing literary rehabilitation of both the early days of the revolution and the USSR generally, partly due to the socialist resurgence and partly due to the fact that 1989 is coming up for 30 years ago now. Also, there seem to be a lot more tankies about lately (and even regular socialists are a lot more tanky than they were a few years ago).

20: So surely you are aware that Mieville produced a socialist Moby Dick for the kiddos? And I thought Railsea was delightful, actually - it was sort of the Little Golden Books version of The Scar, and it seems like he's gotten a handle on his prose since then. I felt like Kraken and Un Lun Dun (and, god knows, Iron Council) were about 25% too long and lost a bunch of momentum, but Railsea was just right.

I have been reading The Last Days of New Paris off and on this week, and I like it a lot. Very creepy and atmospheric, and somehow the fact that he's using other people's symbolic figures gives them a bit more grace than some of his own.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 1:14 PM
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28 sounds plausible - links?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 1:15 PM
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So surely you are aware that Mieville produced a socialist Moby Dick for the kiddos?

I was not. I even had to google to be sure you weren't joking.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 1:18 PM
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28. That seems plausible, whatever the case when the "opposition" inevitably takes control it seems like it's going to be a total disaster because none of the material problems facing the country are going to go away.


Posted by: Asteele | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 1:30 PM
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I don't even want to know why opposition is in quotes. Three-day weekend ahoy.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 1:34 PM
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Did I kill your dog Moby? Or is this backlash over thinking Hillary was a garbage candidate? Anyways, it's in quotes because I barely know anything about the right in Venezuela and am not sure if it's a unified political front or whatever.


Posted by: Asteele | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 1:49 PM
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Got plans, Moby? We have none.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 1:52 PM
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I join you in planlessness! I am sitting in a bar with a beer, awaiting a burger, and with no obligations until Monday night.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 2:14 PM
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I don't have a dog, but I don't think "the right" is a good description of the opposition in Venezuela.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 2:55 PM
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36: You're 17 hours out of cycle with urple.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 2:55 PM
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Red cops are still cops.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 3:19 PM
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I suppose the riot polices' families get bread.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 4:02 PM
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I guess this is the class warfare thread. This is pretty good: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/after-piketty-capital-twenty-first-century-naidu

I don't take the Piketty criticism too much to heart. If Piketty had made the argument Brunig is making, Piketty would have been crucified.


Posted by: roger the cabin boy | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 4:38 PM
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Is this the thread to wonder about the DSA? I've seen more and more people I kinda know, mostly through professional networks that aren't about politics, use the DSA rose in their online handles, which I'll admit has surprised me because I've always associate organized socialist parties with more party-line dogmatic thinking than I would expect from the people I'm thinking of. But maybe they're not that kind of socialist? Also likely: I'm not that informed on organized socialist parties in general.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 05-26-17 10:14 PM
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This is really good: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/25/plane-rage-first-class-air-travel-united-passenger-removal


Posted by: roger the cabin boy | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 4:48 AM
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I'm not sure you can even fly into Lincoln on a first-class seat. I don't know about not-Lincoln flights.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 5:14 AM
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The few people I've interacted with who were in DSA were fucking morons, but they may not be representative.

A (reasonably-accomplished) German economist told me that Piketty was badly served by his English translator, that it made him sound like he was picking a lot of fights that he wasn't.

I am surprised to read the sentence "asset values are forward-looking, not backward-looking" in Jacobin, however.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 5:56 AM
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James fallows with a nice tribute to Zbigniew Brzezinski.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 10:26 AM
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What I'd like to get a sense of is, is it true that the past 38 years of tragedy in Afghanistan can be traced to Zbig engineering an opportunity to troll the Russians there?


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 10:42 AM
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Not entirely. The Soviets stumbled into that shitshow through their own incompetence. Brzezinski took the opportunity to make it worse, but wasn't the only one. Saudi, China, Pakistan, Reagan all did the same, and AFAIK likely would have done so anyway.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 11:05 AM
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As to the genesis of the shitshow, IIRC it was basically the interaction of Afghan Communist infighting with the Brezhnev Doctrine.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 11:08 AM
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Belatedly, thanks to all for the Venezuela links.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 11:08 AM
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My understanding was that the Soviets stumbled into that shitshow as a result of Zbig throwing American support behind the anti-communist movement there. He seems to have taken credit for it at the time.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 11:09 AM
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51: I've only read on this tangentially, and recall is hazy. But IIRC the keys were internal Soviet and Afghan politics. The Soviets considered preservation of communist rule in communist countries a vital national interest, and would act militarily to preserve that rule. Communist rule in Afghanistan was menaced by spontaneous rebellion and party infighting, leading to Soviet intervention.
Brzezinski certainly did claim credit, but IIRC actual American involvement at the time was trivial to nonexistent. To the extent that what mattered was perceived US action rather than actual, yes Brzezinski was responsible. But the Brezhnev Doctrine acted against rebels or dissidents regardless of their origin and nature, and the Soviets could convince themselves of Western subterfuge even where none existed, to the extent of the KGB feeding fabricated intelligence to the Politburo before the Hungary and Czechoslovakia interventions.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 11:32 AM
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I really love the name zbigniew brzezinski


Posted by: Heebie | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 12:45 PM
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And Spiro T Agnew.


Posted by: Heebie | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 12:46 PM
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"This has been Hazily Recollected Cold War History, with Mossy and Spike. Stay tuned for the local news."


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 12:46 PM
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You see this is my problem. My tangential Latin American reading hasn't been focused enough to support hazy recollection episodes about Venezuela.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 1:00 PM
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Thanks for raising the tone there Heebie. We were getting all irrelevantly subjective and stuff.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 1:03 PM
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The Anchorage DSA chapter has been more visible lately than before, with booths at events and so forth. I haven't interacted with them personally, but I've heard from some people who have that they've been generally cordial. There do seem to be some guys involved who were pretty jerkish during the primary last year, but I don't know how influential they are within the organization. A couple of DSA guys, maybe the same ones, recently posted some obnoxious reviews on the Young Dems FB page, but later apologized. They're putting on an event next week about how to push back against the AHCA, along with a couple of other organizations.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 1:06 PM
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My experience with the Pgh DSA is that there's tension between boosting actual socialism, dunking on liberals, and attempting to push the Democrats to be more benevolently leftist. When they focus on activism instead of ideological purity or over-the-top irony, I think they do great work. Locally, they've been involved in protests against Trump, local housing issues (particularly the gentrification of low-income housing in East Liberty that I think JRoth has mentioned here), and the lead in the water (which I especially appreciate as the mayor is acting like it's a non-issue).


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 1:58 PM
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My sister's fiancé is involved with the Philadelphia DSA, but I don't know anything about what they actually do.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 2:07 PM
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The difference is that the Philadelphia DSA can't watch a local hockey team that doesn't suck.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 2:13 PM
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Whereas Anchorage DSA can't watch a local hockey team at all.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 2:17 PM
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That's why wood alcohol is bad.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 2:31 PM
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||

Last month I quit my relatively new stable but dead end job to get into a three month paid internship for hire at one of the larger firms in the region related to the field I hold my master's degree in and was told it would result in an offer if performance was good. On Friday they sat me down and told me that the PMs were too busy for internship training and that I was being laid off effective immediately. Their new full time hire is getting my cubicle. Nice to be facing unemployment for the second time in a year because I believed their fucking lies.

|>


Posted by: Rutherford B. Hayes | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 2:55 PM
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Wow, that sucks. Sorry to hear it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 2:57 PM
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Yes. That's horrible.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 3:03 PM
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Oh, how awful for you. And evil of them.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 3:17 PM
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That's really terrible behavior on their part. They didn't even let you compete the three month internship!


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 3:23 PM
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That bites, RBH. I hope you land on your feet.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 3:37 PM
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God luck, President Hayes.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 6:33 PM
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Good luck plus luck from whatever gods you may have. I had a similar disappointment (minus the serious evil) and have some idea how that burns.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 6:36 PM
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Augh, sorry to hear that, Rutherford. I hope whatever comes next is better.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 6:51 PM
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Oh my god, what cocksuckers. I'm sorry, Ruther.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 7:53 PM
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How terrible Rutherford, that really sucks.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 8:12 PM
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Thanks, everyone. My loss aside, I remain really confused as to why they didn't hire someone with more direct skills and experience off the bat. The entire office say in on my 3 hour long presentation and technical interview, costing who knows how much billable time.


Posted by: Rutherford B. Hayes | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 8:24 PM
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Being cocksuckers, they were presumably hoping they'd be able to replace full employees with interns at lower salaries.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 8:49 PM
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Wow Ruther that sucks and is a heinous move. How do people justify this sort of action to themselves, I mean really was there no one in the meetings re hiring OR firing saying "hey this is an unwise (potentially re hiring, definitely re firing) major dick move" or did someone say it and then how the hell do they spin themselves into doing it anyway?


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05-27-17 9:44 PM
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President Hayes, commiserations. What stupid, nasty, dishonest bastards


Posted by: NW | Link to this comment | 05-28-17 12:45 AM
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Sorry to hear that, President Hayes. Cold comfort, but you really wouldn't want to work for people like that permanently.

52. That more or less matches my impressions at the time. The Afghan Communist Party was divided into two factions, one (Parcham) moderate and probably the least worst option available, the other (Khalq) hard line and extremely nasty. They were shooting at each other, so the Soviets felt obliged to try to sort them out. Wikipedia gets it roughly right, I think.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 05-28-17 3:17 AM
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