Re: Painful

1


The two things that I find most upsetting about this are:

1) It's not ONE person. It's the whole editorial chain that proofed this and approved it.

2) The publisher, upon being informed of this, apparently responded that they would remove it from future editions of THIS BOOK, without promising to remove it from other textbooks they publish (it apparently appears in several).

Those two things taken together move this from "Wow, what a colossal fail" to "Wow, what contemptible indifference," to me.

On top of all that, according to someone with background in culturally and linguistically sensitive healthcare who posted on Twitter, at least some of the research findings cited here are severely distorted or taken out of context.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 7:49 AM
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2

fail s/b failure


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 7:49 AM
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3

This reads like a rulebook for a pen&paper role-playing game. "Dwarves receive a racial +2 bonus to saves vs. pain."


Posted by: Todd | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 7:59 AM
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4

I love how white folks aren't an ethnic group whose cultural practices require explanation.


Posted by: Yawnoc | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 8:20 AM
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5

The good news is that undertreatment (?) of pain in African-Americans may have helped them dodge some of the opiate epidemic. So institutional racism isn't all bad.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 8:32 AM
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American capitalism: "You can have any health outcome you want, as long as it sucks."


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 8:39 AM
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7

I don't understand. There are a lot of white people. Where's the info about how white people deal with pain?


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 9:03 AM
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8

Would say pwned by 4 but I'm not actually being sarcastic here. White people aren't quite a proper race, ethnos, or religion, but neither are any of the other groups in this schema, and lots of nurses are nonwhite and would need to know how to treat white people. This seems like a ridiculous omission.


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 9:05 AM
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9

Well, except Jews, we're maybe the only group on the list that could plausibly be a single group, but even so the quality of information seems very poor.


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 9:08 AM
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10

I'm not very good at searching the archives, but this reminds me of that crazy 1920's vintage "which ethnicities you want for which kinds of labor" table that was posted here a few years ago.

The details change, but the basic mode of thinking remains the same.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 9:16 AM
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11

So is the idea that there are no cultural differences worth mentioning in how people express themselves about pain? That seems unlikely.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 9:21 AM
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11: No, this is just shit info by lazy people who can't be bothered to pay attention.


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 9:27 AM
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13

11: Wouldn't it be nice if this box was, "The following groups are often undertreated for pain, because of cultural stereotypes?" or "If someone is stoic or unexpressive, here's some tip-offs that they may be suffering more than they let on"? or "take wailing seriously, even if you personally are not inclined to wail"?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 9:38 AM
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14

I mean, sure, there are probably statistical differences between "Black people" and "Arabs/Muslims" (even though the groups aren't all that well-defined and have substantial overlap), but it's not really the way you'd predict behavior if you really cared about using racial, religious, and cultural stereotypes to provide better care. 13 is the right starting point for operationalizing this.


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 9:48 AM
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15

Jews aren't a single group. (I don't mean to be all woker than thou, but because I spent some time in a left-wing Jewish political organization I got hammered into me that I should criticize white/Ashkenazi centrism in thinking about who is Jewish.)


Posted by: Tia | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 10:10 AM
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||
Does anyone know how how alameida is doing?
|>


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 10:27 AM
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I've noticed (from a few unconnected trips to hospital; accidents, mishaps, illnesses) that there is a medical professional ethic of 'remind the patient that they don't have to be a trooper'. This reads like a version of that, and is carelessly composed. I wouldn't call it racist.


Posted by: Charlie W | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 10:29 AM
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Just for 'lulz' (and because I'm in bed feeling slightly poorly) let's consider some options for the missing 'white people' entry:

1. White people are terrible crybabies who guzzle opioids whenever offered and are therefore at increased risk of prescription drug addiction; medicate only reluctantly and with caution;

2. White people are generally rational about pain medication use (although note exceptions among Roman Catholics (see 'Hispanics' above)), and will accept pain medication when offered and if in reasonably severe pain; overall they do not as a group attach much meaning or significance to pain and are therefore well placed to judge appropriate use of of pain medication;

3. The behaviour of white people with regard to pain medication acceptance is too diverse to be summarised here; practitioners should use their judgement on a case by case basis.

Anyway, we can see the problem with 'completing' the table. I do, however, sympathise to a degree with the authors. If you said nothing to doctors and nurses about the sorts of responses patients might give, they'd be under-equipped.


Posted by: Charlie W | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 10:49 AM
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19

Why did they only talk to Jewish people who live near me?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 11:18 AM
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20

Wait. I didn't understand the assignment.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 12:04 PM
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4. White people are diverse and interesting and deserving of your individual attention. They really like being treated with care and compassion specific to their needs. It is so weird how homogeneous those other groups are but don't shoot the messenger.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 12:08 PM
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People who live in the US, probably more than people who live where there's some kind of universal heath care, adjust their perceptions of pain according to their ability to afford treatment.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 12:36 PM
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23

The truth hurts. To different extents depending on your SES.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 12:40 PM
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I recall a European student at a conference presenting a paper showing that it sucks to be poor in America and not knowing that's what she'd done.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 2:09 PM
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1: I'm not defending Pearson, who somehow manage to be one of the worst companies in the world, despite being in a relatively innocuous business sector; nor am I defending this colossal fuckup that as you point out should have been caught at multiple stages before this went anywhere near a printing press - but the quote at the top of the article suggests that Pearson is removing this from all books that it appears in, not just this one, and the article then goes on to state that they're doing a recall.


Posted by: Seeds | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 2:15 PM
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In their Facebook post, Moore broke down why the claims made in the textbook were so problematic. "This chart lumps together various groups whose belief systems vary widely," Moore wrote. "Native Americans are not a monolithic group, so you can't make a generic list of what is culturally sensitive to them. Asia is a huge country and the chart completely glosses over that while leaving out countless groups in an attempt to convey the message quickly," Moore explained further.

Tfw you're woke, yet not quite woke enough.


Posted by: Seeds | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 2:16 PM
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27

Pearson: Where Correlation isn't Causation.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 2:23 PM
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28

Woke but still sleepy.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 3:41 PM
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29

18:

4. Religious white people, unlike religious people of other races, are total hypocrites and don't actually believe what their religion says about pain.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 4:24 PM
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30

Some people think Africa is the biggest country, but really its Asia.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 4:41 PM
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31

Some say Africa, it is a flower,
and you, its only seed.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 5:46 PM
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32

You win Painful, Unbreakable Earworming. That song has been in my head since I read 31.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 7:27 PM
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33

*blush*


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 7:54 PM
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34

Is that your forehead in the picture?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 8:00 PM
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35

Nevermind. That's the picture for the article.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 8:06 PM
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15: I agree! But, we're more one group than "Arabs/Muslims" are.


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 8:17 PM
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37

That's because Nasser fucked up


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 8:26 PM
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38

Anyway, a whole minivan of Jewish people isn't as insistent about sharing their pain and having it validated by others as regular white people are today. Just look at Taylor Swift and Donald Trump.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-22-17 8:41 PM
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39

a whole minivan of Jewish people

Moby, it's only called a "minivan" when it's ten observant Jewish adults. It's a religious thing. If you're just using it as a general term, it's better to refer to it as a Mitzvah Tank.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 2:47 AM
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If you've got ten Jewish adults in there it's more of a Mitzvah Personnel Carrier.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 4:50 AM
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41

White males with mullets are likely to espouse the view that "Pain don't hurt."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 5:02 AM
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42

White males with no hair and a hat are likely to espouse the view that "Everybody hurts".


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 5:21 AM
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43

White people who were once governor of Minnesota ain't got time to bleed.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 5:30 AM
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44

And that's an exhaustive list of white-people types.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 5:44 AM
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45

Except for women and huge assholes.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 6:46 AM
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46

There are almost 200 million white people in America, each of whom is his or her own unique type, Moby.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 8:18 AM
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47

White people that belong to the emperor, embalmed white people, white people that are trained, suckling white people, mer-white people, fabulous white people, stray white people, white people that are included in this classification, white people that tremble as if they were mad, innumerable white people, white people drawn with a very fine camel hair brush, et cetera, white people that have just broken the flower vase, white people that, at a distance, resemble flies...


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 8:31 AM
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48

47 is great


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 8:33 AM
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White people who came in to do the camel-hair brush joke, then were pwned by 47.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 8:41 AM
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White people who now think white is spelled funny.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 8:46 AM
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White people that are a variety of shades of pink, white people that imagine that they are white people, white people that run away from cold cuts with funny foreign names, white people that are furry and bark at the mailman....


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 8:55 AM
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47: The fact that there are people who think that the original Borges list is real, and not a joke by Borges, proves that humanity doesn't deserve to survive.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:06 AM
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53

Was this point in dispute?


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:07 AM
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54

He was a great piano playing comedian.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:08 AM
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No he wasn't.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:10 AM
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Huge assholes hurt less if you use lots of lube.


Posted by: Opinionated white asshole | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:10 AM
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. . . white people who think the Borges list is real, white people who know that it's a joke by Borges, white people who've never encountered the list, . . .


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:12 AM
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The Clown Prince of Denmark.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:22 AM
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59

My expert opinion is the main problem with the list is that everyone knows skull shape is the true correlate with pain reactions.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:24 AM
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And yet I can't get any funding for research on curing pain by whapping people on the head hard enough to change the shape.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:28 AM
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I am full of love and judge no one, but how can the Chinese Encyclopedia still be amusing to people after the first 400 times? I have to believe that Borges did not, deep in his heart, want to go down in literary history as a first-class highbrow meme generator. Is this his punishment for cozying up to Videla? I never cozied up to Videla! Why should I suffer too?


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:31 AM
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Jesus Moby this isn't Auschwitz. We have ethics these days. You have to start out whapping rats.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:31 AM
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It turns out my whapping hammer is too big for rats and attrition ruined the study.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:34 AM
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You don't have to tell the committee everything. Just say the rats definitely aren't in pain anymore.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:36 AM
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The problem isn't the committee. The problem is the graduate research assistants are squeamish.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:37 AM
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If they want to be serious scientists they need to be ready to make some sacrifices. Pay their dues.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:40 AM
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67

And buy clothes that don't need dry cleaning. Housing is too cheap here if they can afford that.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:41 AM
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Authors that generate high-brow memes, authors with scandalous sex lives, authors that are completely forgotten.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:42 AM
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69

Who are three types of people who have never been in my kitchen?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:43 AM
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67: Maybe they are cutting back on the avocado toast.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:44 AM
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71

This is just to say

I have used
the Celestial Emporium
of Benevolent Knowledge bit
for my meme generation

and which you
you were probably not
relying
on for immortal fame

Forgive me
they were so easily memed
much more so than
Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius
or The Aleph.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:08 AM
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72

Sorry, been drinking brandy and that didn't really work


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:09 AM
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Drinking Kir, too illiterate to get it.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:11 AM
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Barry, Annie Hall, watch/no-watch?


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:12 AM
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Definitely watch.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:12 AM
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I recall it as O.K. Certainly not as good as Airplane! or even Top Secret.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:17 AM
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Ok. Hope it's not too slow. I'm an impatient asshole.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:18 AM
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I loved Annie Hall, but I was a huge Woody Allen fan back then, so I was probably wrong about everything.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:19 AM
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It's a little slow at the start. Nobody gets killed in the first hour.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:19 AM
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Not as action-packed as the time Woody Allen boxed a kangaroo.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:21 AM
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81

Are there weird pedophile vibes?


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:25 AM
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81: No, it's an adult kangaroo.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:28 AM
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83

Okay, that's alright then.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:31 AM
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81: I believe you want Manhattan if your looking for weird pedophile vibes in an early Woody Allen movie.

I don't really recall any in Annie Hall.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:31 AM
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81 No not that I recall, not like Manhattan (which is still really great, mostly thanks to Gordon Willis' cinematography).


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:33 AM
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84: Yes, I think that's right. I don't recall any children or teenagers in Annie Hall at all.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:34 AM
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87

60: You owe the world a thinkpiece on how the IRB system is broken.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:51 AM
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88

IRB human subject training in brief:

1. After realized what the Nazis did, we decided to have ethics.
2. After noticing that we really weren't good at applying ethics, we decided to have more ethics.
3. You will take a test on these ethics until you pass.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 10:54 AM
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88 is outstanding.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 11:00 AM
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90

I wasn't joking.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 11:01 AM
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91

88 is deplorable.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 11:01 AM
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92

By definition.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 11:04 AM
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93

At least I'm not in a building named after anyone involved with the Tuskegee Study.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 11:05 AM
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94

Neither am I.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 11:08 AM
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95

Can I have a cookie?


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 11:08 AM
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71/72: You're okay with me, Barry.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 11:08 AM
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I've eaten like six cookies today. There's a guy around here who likes baking.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 11:10 AM
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Resolved: tomorrow I shall purchase cookies.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 11:12 AM
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99

And refrain from biological warfare experiments.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 11:13 AM
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100

I should really have like a post-it or something for that one.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 11:14 AM
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96 Thanks for that lk.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 11:26 AM
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71 is very good. Alas, my screen-addled mind kept on interpreting it as an MMO quest description.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 11:36 AM
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This is just to say

I have eaten
the plums
that were in
the icebox

and which
you were planning
to turn in
for the quest reward

Forgive me
I needed the plusses


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 12:01 PM
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104

(I guess line four should be "the guild bank tab")


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 12:02 PM
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105

My husband's favorite cookie is oatmeal raisin. Should I divorce him?


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 12:35 PM
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106

Why? You can eat all the good cookies in the house.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 12:36 PM
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107

Your husband says he's Italian, right?


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 12:37 PM
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108

Italian cookies are usually baked until stupid-hard anyway. They do better with other desserts.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 12:39 PM
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109

105: YES!


Posted by: Mallory Ortberg | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 12:39 PM
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107

In fairness to him, his favorite all time cookie is a shitty Italian cookie. His favorite American cookie is oatmeal raisin. He did something really nice for me after me being a flake, so I want to bake him oatmeal raisin cookies, but I don't like the thought of putting in all the effort of baking to end up with oatmeal raisin cookies.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 12:40 PM
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I guess I could bake his all time favorite cookie, but I'm not finding a recipe for "anise-flavored hockey puck" anywhere on the internet.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 12:41 PM
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112

108 is of course true.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 12:48 PM
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113

Is it the genuine Natural Redhead gracing our disreputable abode?


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 12:50 PM
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114

I suspect the frequent chiding against the use of Opinionated as a symbolic throwaway prefix has led to unnecessary ambiguity.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 5:07 PM
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I've never paid a minutes of attention to backlash against "Opinionated".


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 5:31 PM
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116

114 Either that or 109 was Megan.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 7:23 PM
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The problem is throwing away opinionated and also using the names of people alive and able to comment.


Posted by: just "grandma" doesn't really work here, ok? | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:02 PM
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118

117 was actually me.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:03 PM
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119

In conclusion, LB should cut someone.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-23-17 9:13 PM
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120

How about "Putative"?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-24-17 7:00 AM
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