He has no interest in the US east coast, Midwest or south
That's like all I know.
Let's all give our Myers-Briggs letters. I'm pretty sure I'm INTJ.
True - False!
I realize he's geographically picky, alas those horizons not moving any time soon.
Thoughts & feelings would be welcome as well!
Thoughts on German universities for linguistics...
Probably good. Everyone I know at one speaks really good English.
He has no interest in the US east coast, Midwest
Cornell is sort of both, and therefore sort of neither. Not sure I'd recommend it, though. No idea of its linguistics program anyway.
I'm guessing that one of the UCs is going to be the best bet. I have a cousin who went to one and she looks like she just walked out of the REI catalog despite being old enough to have a kid in graduate school.
UCB is his top wish. The stay at home parent isn't super enthused at years more of home-cooked meals & laundry but the kid's good company so we'd struggle on if that works out.
If the end goal is linguistics grad school, I'd look hard at SLACs where he'd be taught by actual linguists and get to do real work on projects. Although the geographical restrictions rule out most of the strong contenders there.
UNM and Austin have relatively good undergrad programs. Edinburgh, T, but I only know about grad-level stuff there. Amsterdam, no idea.
University College London is good also.
My US recommendations, ignoring geography, and in no particular order, would be Cornell, Carleton, Reed, Purdue, Austin, Georgetown, Brown, UCSB, MIT, UNM, Berkeley, Stanford, Claremont McKenna, Smith.
But also I think the importance of which undergrad degree to get is overrated. Send him somewhere with a linguistics program, and then tell him to spend his time & effort on the grad-school decision if he still likes linguistics in 4 years and the apocalypse hasn't hit yet.
(NB all of my advice is based on Linguistics. I have no information or opinions about the other Ls.)
Now that Wikipedia has plot summaries of most novels, literature is probably too easy anyway.
17: Agree completely, this is in good part an exercise in trying to persuade him to consider a wider range of schools. UCSV is a big no on quality of life grounds, isla vista is a soulless pit.
13: He volunteered for a UCB post-grad this past summer and hopefully will get more opportunities with her and others, he super enjoyed it! UCL feedback good to know. Edinburgh has some crazy 4 year program he could ho straight unto and end up with a masters, not sure best move straight from HS.
UCSB. and thank you e. Messily, much appreciated!
Also- the LSA holds Summer School in odd-numbered years, and these are a good thing to attend if you can swing it.
https://www.linguisticsociety.org/content/lsas-linguistic-institutes
One thing to note is that the European 3-year bachelor programs don't have general studies requirements and so I believe that it is harder to switch majors.
I have no idea about UCSC, but if he's interested I could harangue Sally into providing a campus tour.
Campus tours here involve young people walking backwards while talking and not getting hit by cars. It's pretty impressive, if a bit annoying when you're trying to catch Pokemon.
Research strength of linguistics program is irrelevant to undergrad education. Strong research usually means teaching is farmed out to stressed out and inexperienced grad students. SLAC >> large university (if you can afford it). Sadly not as many SLACs on the west coast though. Reed is heaven for nerds.
Stepdaughter went to Reed as did one of his fairy godmothers so he's heard the slac case, but he's not been swayed. kid *very* into UCB where he took delightsome small upper div course this past summer & enjoyed himself thoroughly.* My own exp is of slace-sque education at UCB via willingness to work hard in obscure, high barriers to entry major.
*his school thus far has been small small small so spreading his wings is ahhhhhh.
One point in their favor may be that German programs are free. At least, I believe that this is still the case.
Yes, this is a massive point in their favor.
German schools are tuition-free. On the other hand, far and away the vast majority of courses are taught in German (who knew?). I just had a look at the Free University of Berlin, and the only Bachelor's-level program taught in English is North American Studies. Much of the surrounding bureaucracy is likely to be in German, as is daily life, including important elements such as finding a place to live.
So how's his German?
On the other other hand, German is probably still very useful in linguistics, so spending a super-intensive year getting his language up to where he could attempt university coursework might be a good investment for the long term as well. On the other other other hand, is that what he wants to do at age 18/19?
His german is very good and on track to meet the requirements to be admitted to a german university and take courses in german/live life there by the time he would apply. he's already there in french (but would go to a french university over my dead body). dutch would take more work. he's got a us and a uk passport. given the state of the world, i'm very happy to have him able to exist in more than one country, thank you very much.
Delurking as an academic in a linguistics-adjacent field (cognitive science, but I've published some language-related papers).
If kid is thinking he might want to go on to graduate school or do a PhD, a major benefit of attending a research-intensive institution is that he can get research experience as an undergrad. This can yield a giant leg up when it comes to PhD admissions (and also tell him if he actually enjoys the process of research as much as the theory, which is good to know before starting a PhD!).
UCB (assuming you mean UC Berkeley here) is great on most fronts: it's broad enough that if kid decides he doesn't want to do linguistics / languages there are many other good majors to choose from. Also the language / linguistics / cogsci departments are all very good.
Edinburgh is very strong in linguistics / cogsci as a grad program, but I don't know much about the undergrad. Still I think they have a broader focus than many UK institutions and a 4-year degree with masters isn't something to sneeze at.
Must run, kids are calling, but hopefully these idle thoughts have been helpful. Will keep checking thread to see if other questions arise.
Thank you! Very helpful and agree wholeheartedly re UCB but am partisan.
UCB (assuming you mean UC Berkeley here)
Much as I like Upright Citizens Brigade alumni, I'm not sure improv classes are a great idea for the kid.
I have no idea how good Edinburgh is in linguistics (though its website talks a strong game), but a couple of points in its favour:
1) they do a lot of joint honours programmes, so if he starts off doing, say, French and Linguistics, and discovers he hates linguistics, it will be very easy to switch to just French, and also fairly easy to switch to French plus something else.
2) It's a terrific city to live in. It's beautiful, it's walkable, it's small enough not to be horrible and big enough to have everything a city ought to have, and the student accommodation is really pretty great as long as he doesn't mind climbing lots of stairs.
Any interest in the computational side of things (computational linguistics, etc)? Both Berkeley and Edinburgh are really strong on that front and having that background can yield much better employment prospects (both within academia and outside of it) than a linguistics / language degree without it. Something to keep in mind.
That said: Stanford is excellent on these fronts too, and has good enough financial aid that if you're excluding it for money reasons, it's probably worth putting in an application and seeing how it turns out. Both Stanford and Berkeley you can get taught by real linguists and work on real projects, even though they are not SLACs.
I second most of E Messily's recommendations though I'd add University of Maryland (pedantic but pointless given the geographic constraints).
37 was me. It is clear why I lurk, this fancy "internet" "technology" stuff is a little difficult for me to handle.
My niece in law did not linguistics but a linguistics related major at UC Chango within the last five-ten years. I could ask her to comment on the department if it would be useful.
a linguistics related major at UC Chango
One of California's finest voodoo higher education establishments.
Thinly disguised on the assumption that most people know how Chango is represented in Santeria.
Aaaah. I thought it was an autocorrect fault.
Aaaah. I thought it was an autocorrect fault.
Look, I don't practice Santeria. I don't
got no crystal ball.
I want to hear more about the reasons for excluding the whole east coast. Culture over here is too stuffy and formal? As opposed to... Germany. Sure.
Traffic is horrible once you get past Harrisburg.
California has traffic problems of its own, but maybe he's counting on being shot through underground tunnels by the Hyperloop.
Based on two trips, one in 2000 and the other in 1986, I don't recall it being very bad.
45: he's a prospective student. Students like to sleep late. There's nothing to the east of the east coast to block the sun coming up in the morning. Whereas if he goes somewhere else he can have a nice mountain range or something to give him that extra 20 minutes in the shade before the first rays of the sun hit.
(This explanation also holds for "he's a vampire".)
The east coast is also very lacking in tar pits, unless you count poorly paved roads on very hot days.
The California kids I knew as an undergrad would complain endlessly about Illinois not being like California. Even the ones from Chico.
Normal kids complain about how Ohio isn't like Nebraska.
Forza, he's not shown interest in the computational side yet, but who knows he's still but a duckling. Stanford (and ivies in general) not on list for reasons both financial and ideological, it's complicated.
Ajay, yes, those are all reasons Edinburgh is on the list, i think he'd be very happy there.
Essear and others re geo limits, he's opinionated in that just this side of rational way one is at smart 16. So reasons articulated and not, that make some sense and that don't. But to be clear, *i* am the family vampire, not the kid.
49: Such a student could also seek out places with greatest delay between clock time and sun time, which in the US appears to be Indiana and Michigan.
re: 23
Scottish system is different. (Pwned by ajay in 35, and other things he says there are true, too)
Edinburgh also has good cognitive science, psychology, and AI type departments (also pwned by Forza above) if his interests take him that way.
55: or go to Edinburgh, where, to put it mildly, over-exposure to sunlight will not be among his biggest problems.
It's nice if the sun pops out when I'm on vacation or if I ever decide to try to grow corn, but mostly I just find direct sunlight to be annoying.
I literally plan my commute based on available shadows.
Edinburgh has a nicer castle than California.
BUT FAR INFERIOR PARKING FACILITIES
Neither better half nor kid have been to San Simeon, i feel very slightly as if i should show it to kid as Californian parent but obviously not enough that I've made it happen. Besides he's been to the rosicrucian museum, we've met our minimal parental obligations on that score.
I GUESS BY NICE CASTLE YOU MEAN SOMETHING OTHER THAN THE SWEETEST PAD EVER, FERGUS. HOW MANY STARLETS AT THE POOL IN YOUR HIBERNIAN ROCKPILE, ANGUS. OH THATS RIGHT THERE IS NO POOL.
55 El Paso and Boise, seems to me.
In sum Edinburgh's castle indubitably nicer, California's indisputably more deranged.
65: I was weighting for presence of major universities.
The stay at home parent isn't super enthused at years more of home-cooked meals & laundry but the kid's good company so we'd struggle on if that works out.
Is making kid responsible for major contributions to meals & laundry an enforceable precondition for UCB?
62 FUCK YOU WALT NICE PLASTIC BAVARIA SNOW WHITE GIFT SHOP CAKED WITH TODDLER DROOL CASTLE YOU GOT THERE JIMINY CRICKET. GUESS I'LL JUST HEAD WITH A LOVELY LADY INTO THE 43rd/495 GUEST BEDROOM AT MY PLACE USED TO BE A FULL ON FUCKING MEDIEVAL MASTERPIECE CHURCH IN ARAGON UNTIL THEY PULLED IT DOWN AND PUT IT BACK UP FOR ME TO FUCK IN
HOW MANY STARLETS AT THE POOL IN YOUR HIBERNIAN ROCKPILE, ANGUS. OH THATS RIGHT THERE IS NO POOL
HOPE THAE FILLUM LASSIES KEEP TELLIN YE THAT SIZE DISNAE MATTER, SONNY, CAUSE THAT'S HOO YE KNOW THEY HIVNAE SEEN THE GUN SHOW OWER HERE. SEE THAT? THAT'S MONS MEG. WHIT DAE YE CALL YIRS, LITTLE WILLIE?
Also on further examination El Paso uses Mountain Time.
BOTH YOU ASSHOLES CAN CRAWL OVER HERE AND SUCK MY MURID BALLS. I COULD BUY THE WHOLE OF STINKING EDINBURGH WITH ONE DUMBASS AVENGERS MOVIE AND GET HEARST FOR THE CHANGE!
The time zones have boring names. Instead of Eastern Time, Central Time, Mountain Time and Pacific time, they should be renamed to better represent their locations as Tee Time, Miller Time, Bullet Time and Showtime.
I THINK YOU'LL FIND BULLET TIME ORIGINATES FURTHER WEST, MY FRIEND.
And tee times originate further east.
In Edinburgh, everyone has already had their tea.
[in-joke]
YEAH IM SWEATING HARD NICE FUCKING GUN FROM BACK WHEN MANUFACTURING WAS LIKE THREE GUYS WHOD DIE OF SMALLPOX AT AGE 31 AND TWO LOOMS OH SHIT THERE'S NO WAY ONE OF MY SECURITY GUARDS COULD STORM YOUR CASTLE WITH A MODERN ASSAULT RIFLE OH SHIT NO YES HE COULD AND ANYWAY I HAVE LIKE 100 SECURITY GUARDS SO WHATEVER AS FOR YOU WALT NICE SALES ON THAT LITTLE MERMAID MERCH BUT I HAVE FUCKING GOLD MINES KNOW WHAT THOSE ARE LOOK IT UP ITS CALLED MINERAL WEALTH FOOL
NOW IM GONNA GO TAKE A SHIT IN MY TOILET ITS A GOLD BAPTISMAL FONT TOTAL MASTERPIECE WEALTHIEST COUNT IN SICILY IN 1483 COULDN'T PAY HIS DAUGHTER'S DOWRY BC HE SPENT IT ALL ON FONT ENDOWMENT TO CREATE AN ETERNAL MASTERWORK NOW I GO DUMP THERE WHEN I DON'T FEEL LIKE DUMPING IN MY OTHER 436 TOILIETS AT MY CASTLE, BITCHES
68, 69 -- Surely there's no better sign of a qualify university than playing football on a blue field.
THERE'S NO WAY ONE OF MY SECURITY GUARDS COULD STORM YOUR CASTLE WITH A MODERN ASSAULT RIFLE
"SECURITY GUARDS"? SOME FAT PUNTER WHA COULDNAE GET A JOB IN THE NAE-KIDDIN ARMY, THAT'LL BE? AYE, RIGHT. GOOD LUCK WI THAT, CHINA. YIR "CASTLE" HASNAE EVEN GOT WALLS. MINE HAS A PERMANENT GARRISON MADE UP O THESE LADS. SO, BEST OF LUCK, AYE? WE'LL SEND THEIR REMAINS BACK TAE THEIR FOLKS IN A WEE ENVELOPE.
75 Damn straight. But it's not a lost cause.
(Are you people reading the wikipedia entry on Sul Ross? What a story.)
Sul Ross was a direct ancestor of my ex-wife and thus of one of my kids, or so I was told.
You don't believe one of your kids is yours?
No, he's just a bit hazy on how this ancestry thing works.
That DNA test was fake. Maury Povich needed the ratings.
I think my life would be different, and better, in so many ways if my father's name was Shapley Prince Ross.
Or Shapley Prince Anything really.
Thank you to everyone, particularly pleased with where this thread ended up. Also i managed to avoid fisticuffs with the guidance counselor! Although that was mainly down to the better half.
88 The question would be whether the kid is his wife's.
A bit late to the OP question, but I basically agree with EM regarding linguistics undergrad programs. The curriculum is pretty standardized at that level, and most schools don't offer it as a major, so find one that does and you'll be fine. I'm sure the very best undergrad linguistics experience would be at a SLAC, but very few of them offer it.
My 73 was incomplete. It should have read "Uighurs uobble but the don't kow-tow."
Thanks, I feel better now.
I don't know that much about undergrad programs, but the top UCs should all be good, especially UCB and UCSC. Reed is a good choice too. For the Netherlands University of Leiden has a strong ling research program, but I don't know what the undergraduate education is like.
