did someone muck with the backend here

Re: Geography

1

It's some combination of pre-contact range and current tribal lands--see the differences between "Cherokee" and "Cherokee (Oklahoma)". Maybe points in-between, but maybe not--they have the Lenape lands at contact, but AFAICT nothing for their migration westwards across Pennsylvania and Ohio before they ended up on reservations in Oklahoma and Ontario.

It seems a little broad and maybe poorly sourced--check out the huge range of the Osage, especially the eastern part. It includes precisely the Ohio River valley, not including the valleys of its major tributaries. I suspect someone read the Wikipedia page that says "Studies of their traditions and language show that they were part of a group of Dhegian-Siouan speaking people who lived in the Ohio River valley area" and extrapolated from there, not seeing the next clause, "Extending into present-day Kentucky."

A lot of the data a project like this needs is going to be fuzzy at best and should properly come with caveats that a single map with hard borders can't really communicate well.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 9:53 AM
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2

I love maps, though this one was a bit frustrating. I wish it'd hyperlink its sources, so Concession 17 would link to the treaty (or at least have a better name than Concession ##).


Posted by: Mooseking | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 12:08 PM
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In the US, there is often a lot of money at stake in determinations of where a tribe's "ancestral land" (itself not all that clear a concept) was, because tribes can petition to use that as a basis for citing an off-reservation casino. My one Indian law case involved a tribe whose ancestral tribal lands, according to an anthropologist the tribe paid and who was in no possible way biased by that fact, happened to have a small peninsula sticking out that overlapped barely with a major freeway exit. So without being sure of where this info comes from I would treat it with extreme caution.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 12:17 PM
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4

"siting" not "citing" of course. Where is the goddamn edit button.


Posted by: RH | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 12:17 PM
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5

Yeah, this map is sort of a mishmash of different sources covering different periods. Not very useful or reliable even given that putting this sort of thing on a map with clearly delineated boundaries is misleading to begin with.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 12:33 PM
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Agree that this map is not reliable in its current form. The author states as much, citing to the difficulty of defining the question, but, a vague disclaimer without offering definitions about how the author is going to put plots to paper is problematic, making the information, I think, useless, as opposed to a work in progress.

Maybe I'm missing information, but there's no definition in which I can imagine the plotting of the Pacific Northwest to be accurate -- Washington state with only the Yakima & Wenatchee plotted. It can't be first contact or current reservations.

I'm guessing the map is someone playing with mapping without much data.


Posted by: zb | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 12:45 PM
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7

It's called "disruption".


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 12:45 PM
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8

If you like maps, I am liking these terrible maps though maybe not as much as I like the maps without New Zealand.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 12:55 PM
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9

My favorite was the bear attack one.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 12:59 PM
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10

I guess Metis presents its own problems.

I hadn't really understood the Ktunaxa people's historic range until we took a drive to Banff (and just into Jasper) last month. It's kind of silly to end the Nimipuu at the Bitterroot divide. They regularly hunted buffalo on the plains, even if they didn't live there. They told Lewis & Clark about Rogers Pass in 1806, which was a big damn deal.

OK, L&C Pass, which is 5 miles away from Rogers, but the point is that they knew about the shortcut to Great Falls, future home of mermaids.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 1:01 PM
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11

8: I sadly have to admit I laughed at the "Population Per Capita" of Kosovo.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 1:03 PM
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12

(You folks did read abut the mermaids in the NYT yesterday, right? They're hiring!)


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 1:04 PM
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13

Both links in 8 are great.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 1:05 PM
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14

The "What Country is Across the Ocean" map is actually very interesting but not terrible.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 1:19 PM
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I really liked your Maps w/o New Zealand link Thorn!


Posted by: Mooseking | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 1:24 PM
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16

Yeah, the data for New Mexico on this map would be liable to start several wars, if anyone ever tried to claim accuracy.


Posted by: Roadrunner | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 4:09 PM
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17

Here's a beautiful old map
http://dcc.newberry.org/system/artifacts/740/original/Powell-Map-of-Indian-Languages.jpg
http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/the_vault/2016/02/22/LgMapOfLinguisticStocks.jpg
Here's a Slate article about it:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_vault/2016/02/22/john_wesley_powell_s_late_19th_century_map_of_native_american_linguistic.html
Here's a nice looking one from 1967, that looks nice and is maybe clearer
http://www.emersonkent.com/images/indian_tribes.jpg
Here's a modern one where each tribe gets its own color
http://roundtripticket.me/native-american-map-of-north-america.html/native-american-map-of-north-america-for

I don't think any of them are a snapshot of a particular year or era unfortch


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 9:08 PM
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18

If you superimposed a map of drainage basins I think you'd see they correpspond to each other pretty well.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 9:14 PM
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19

17 was me


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 9:15 PM
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I don't think any of them are a snapshot of a particular year or era unfortch

No, they're not, primarily because to do such a map rigorously would mean either leaving about half of the continent blank (which half depends on what date you were going for) or making a lot of wild guesses based on essentially no information. Maps like this are typically composites of locations at the time of first contact with Europeans, so they are best read as having a temporal dimension running approximately from east to west and covering about 300 years.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 9:22 PM
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21

It's strange to think of the mighty Elkhorn River as a major dividing line between language groups, but I would guess what that really means is that everybody decided the Pawnee could have the land where there was no actual dirt you could farm on.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 9:28 PM
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22

I imagine the "insufficient data" parts of the Northeast are because of the Beaver Wars having wiped out the history/people too fast for Europeans to have had contact.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 9:30 PM
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23

Chewed away the family trees, as it were.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 10:38 PM
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22: Yep.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-27-17 11:08 PM
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23: This is why you don't get to wars.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 6:03 AM
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26

I'm too busy punning?


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 6:19 AM
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27

It was supposed to say "name wars" but a beaver ate it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 6:21 AM
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28

This is probably the time and place for my confession. I was over 30 when I discovered that New Zealand was south of Australia. I think this was possible because I learned where countries were from the globe that was always in my room, and from the angle I looked at it I never saw New Zealand at the bottom, and somehow decided that New Guinea was New Zealand. I was at a party and there was a couple from New Zealand. I don't remember how the subject came up, but I do remember that I was so confident about my geographical knowledge, that I was about to start arguing with them about where there country was.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 7:15 AM
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29

I once met somebody from Manhattan who didn't know where Connecticut was. (They thought it was between Pennsylvania and New Jersey.)


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 7:26 AM
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30

That would explain why Connecticut is so damp.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 7:31 AM
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28: bad news on that. New Zealand isn't south of Australia. You're thinking of Tasmania or possibly Antarctica...


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 7:42 AM
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32

It's further south than Australia, for the most part. But yes, more east than south.

You're not the only person who has the New Guinea/Zealand confusion; we went to NZ on our holiday and a friend thought that meant New Guinea. Bougainville is a bit too adventurous for me.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 7:50 AM
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33

s/holiday/honeymoon/


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 7:50 AM
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34

New Zealand is strange because Gondor is north of the Shire.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 7:52 AM
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35

Maybe you guys could compromise on "southeast" or "eastsoutheast." Blessed are the peacemakers.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 7:52 AM
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36

An ex-girlfriend lived in Berkeley, CA, and had been there for 8 years when I met her. She didn't know that the San Francisco Bay emptied into the Pacific Ocean. Now a minor celebrity in an intellectual field. So, Peep, there is hope.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 7:56 AM
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37

When I first went to college in Michigan, I thought Chicago was on the other side of us. In that fuzzy, not thinking directly about it - I'm sure I could have derived the truth if I'd thought about it systematically - but it was loosely categorized in my head as something east-coast-ish. And my roommate for the first week was from Chicago, so our first conversation was full of laden pauses while I scrambled to keep up.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 7:57 AM
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38

Where did she think it emptied?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 7:57 AM
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39

It could be an endorheic lake. Hence the salt flats.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 7:59 AM
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40

I think she thought it was some kind of salty lake. This was not the only geographical error.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 7:59 AM
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41

37: Lots of people confuse Chicago with Toledo.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 8:00 AM
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42

We were on a road trip amd I asked her to look at the map to navigate. "Oh wow! The Pacific ocean is right there!"


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 8:00 AM
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43

Well, she was absolutely right about that.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 8:04 AM
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44

I just figured out that Lady Bird isn't a biopic about President Johnson's wife.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 8:08 AM
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45

Early in my stay here I was walking in the government district and was surprised to see the Roc Merchant Marine Agency (or something similar). WTF? I thought. Why would they have merchant mariners? Then some other part of my brain said, "Because it's a fucking island". Somehow I'd mentally filed it as "diplomatic oddity" and thus in the same category as Switzerland, the Vatican and Andorra.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 8:15 AM
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46

Switzerland has a considerable merchant marine. Basel is connected to the ocean.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 8:23 AM
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47

I'm in agreement with Sherlock Holmes about knowledge of the natural world.

"What the deuce is it to me?" he interrupted impatiently; "you say that we go round the sun. If we went round the moon it would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or to my work."


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 8:24 AM
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44: Yes. Can it be a coincidence that Greta Gerwig came up with this name for the protagonist of her movie at the same as Jennifer Jason Leigh is playing the part of Lady Bird Johnson in a movie?

If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you just haven't been spending enough time keeping up with Hollywood gossip.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 8:25 AM
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49

I'm pretty sure Sherlock was at least aware of the Atlantic Ocean.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 8:25 AM
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28: The big thing about this wasn't my ignorance really -- it was that I was so sure of my knowledge when I was completely wrong. That was an instructive experience.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 8:27 AM
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51

You could always try explaining feminism to women.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 8:35 AM
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52

I just figured out that Lady Bird isn't a biopic about President Johnson's wife.

It does seem odd that an Oscar favorite isn't a biopic. Logical mistake.

I just found out "Legion" isn't a TV adaptation of the movie "Legion".


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 8:45 AM
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53

best read as having a temporal dimension running approximately from east to west and covering about 300 years.

This is a very helpful framework.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-28-17 9:04 AM
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