Drawing on the relevant psychological literature, the author shows that there are a number of well-documented features of human psychology that explain why people systematically overestimate the quality of their lives and why they are thus resistant to the suggestion that they were seriously harmed by being brought into existence.
Uh, what? How could you possibly determine that people "systematically overestimate the quality of their lives"? What metrics are there to measure quality of life besides self-reporting?
Sounds like this guy's a real treat at parties.
You should respond to this ad, teo.
Modern, analytic pessimists are big wussies, true that. I have heard the view defended that it is wrong to bring someone into existence on the following grounds:
1. existence invariably involves suffering harms as well as enjoying benefits
2. it is not permissible to inflict a harm on someone to provide a benefit absent their consent
3. it is impossible to gain the consent of of a someone who does not yet exist.
4. Therefore, it is not permissible to bring someone into existence
Here is a counteragument.
So much for the dignity and intrinsic value of the human person.
She sounds like she could be clingy, but sweet. (And maybe insecure about her looks, as she's playing up her value as a supportive companion.)
9: That's pretty much my impression.
7: so do you think you're under an obligation to produce more human persons, because that way, we can increase total dignity, or something? I haven't read the book but it doesn't look as if the guy's advocating wanton slaying (which would be a more provocative philosophical view than the bromide he does seem to be peddling), but rather a curtailing of production—no existing human persons need to have their dignity stripped for that to proceed.
Jesus, that ad makes me want to cry. Cuddle bug?
I'm confused. Is she a cuddle bug or a snuggle bunny?
A snuddle buggy. It runs on saccharine.
Yeah, yeah, cuddle bug, but it's the best ad up right now (except maybe this one). See what I mean about Ithaca Craigslist?
You catch more flies with saccharine than with bile.
A snookie-wookums who will nod while you yell. And then huggums.
Or, perhaps a clever ploy to snag a better fella-- maybe her normal approach has yielded only disappointment?
Oh, she's just young and lonely. Give the girl a break.
I wonder if that's actually true, baa.
We should do an experiment.
Teo, there's a lifetime of bitter relationship experiences out there to be had. I say ask either one of them (or both, separately) out for coffee.
Ben, don't hate your parents for having had the unprotected sex that led to your existence. I got a CD out of it.
Break given. I am impressed she was so honest in a venue such as CL, known mostly as being a hive of scum and villainy.
You catch the most flies with feces.
I will not be asking either of these girls out for coffee.
Don't be so quick to assume that the appearance of naïve honesty is in fact honesty. It could be a lie designed to get a certain kind of perhaps easily manipulable guy into her sphere of influence.
21: You know that was written by Jason Fortuny, right?
24: I have not encountered such wickedness. I would countenance clever porn lure or Fortuny-pranking before that.
That said, Teo should definitely avoid, avoid, avoid.
Considered dispassionately, the Mormon theological system would probably support this book's thesis. If being near God is a primary goal, then never being born is your safest bet. (Mormons believe in the continuity of selfhood across the pre-mortal and mortal existences and the afterlife.)
I've always thought of the "And you too can become like Christ for another world!" business as some last-minute stop-gap in Mormon theology: there's got to be some point to sending people through the trials and temptations of existence. I've never known a single Mormon who took that particular bit of dogma seriously, but then, they were all already born, as Mormons, into this mess of a world.
Anti-natalism also implies that it would be better if humanity became extinct. Although counter-intuitive for many, that implication is defended, not least by showing that it solves many conundrums of moral theory about population.
Well, if it's counter-intuitive, it must be true, and anyone who disagrees and refuses to die immediately is obviously mired in false consciousness and disavowal. And not only that, they are standing in the way of important conundrum-solutions.
CF. Pat Benatar (David Benatar before the operation): "Love is a Battlefield". "Pat's" singing financed not only the operation, but also important new advances in nihilism.
Happiness is just one massive instance of the fallacy of sunk costs.
11: No, I don't think you're under an obligation to bring about more people, just that I think it could be argued that being alive is a higher-order good than the usual melange of pains and pleasures. I don't have a well-worked out position on this, though.
15: I think I'd ask out the second one, if your tastes run at all geek.
If I were to ask one it would probably be the second one, but if I were going to use the internet to find girls in Ithaca Facebook is a much better bet.
Anyone who takes dating advice from the Unfogged hivemind is at least as fucked up as someone who takes dating advice from me.
Oo, the second one has possibilities. Not coffee, though. Seems like more of a drinks girl. I'm sure she has an ID.
but if I were going to use the internet to find girls in Ithaca Facebook is a much better bet.
That might be true as a probabilistic claim, but makes no sense when faced with an actual ad.
Téo, ask out someone, or I'll set you up with my crazy sister.
So far the Ithaca craigslist seems better than the Peninsula subsection of the SF Bay craigslist.
Oh, she's just young and lonely. Give the girl a break.
Listen to the nice woman, you animals.
35: I'll take my chances with the crazy sister. How close is she to Ithaca?
36: Maybe you should ask one of these girls out.
35: Hey, Cala, I've been meaning to ask, why do you write it as "Téo"? I've always seen it written Teófilo, usually by Puerto Ricans and Cubans (cf.). Not being pedantic, just curious.
Okay, so I really needed the mp3 of McEnroe saying "You cannot be serious," which used to be around here, but now my link for it doesn't work. Little help, anyone?
39: Cala just added the accent because she thought I needed one. The actual spelling is as you write it, but I pronounce it differently.
If this thread devolves into a competition over which unattached male poster can get a date soonest, I'll kill myself, but die happy, having seen Usenet at its best return.
Too bad you don't live around here, Teo.
I've just recently discovered CL and have been reading the m4w ads and casual encounters. It sounds like there are many more men looking than women. I must be in very high demand; I'm intelligent, funny, silly, sweet, kind, gentle, nonjudgemental, vertically always a lady, and horizontally a somewhat kinky slut. I've been accused by my first husband of being a nympho. I love to massage, cook, and absolutely love to give oral sex. I'm divorced, white, ddf, own my own business, red hair, green eyes, and have no desire to ever live with another man. I'm not opposed to shacking up though. I don't know how to post a picture,plus I'm in the witness protection program and don't really have a current picture. We can send dirty emails back and forth if you want.
P.S. Just a hint, All the women I know, including myself, do not "shop" for men by the look of their penises. You guys Might get more responses if you showed us something besides that.
"plus I'm in the witness protection program"
About ten hours and she's got issues with men that make cuddlebug look promising. You should take it as a threat. I love my sister, and she's a lovely human being, but she is basically wanting to get married while skipping the dating hassle. (Honestly, she'd probably be the sort that would do well with an arranged marriage.)
39: Because one day I decided that téo needed an accent. One time I forgot and then I gave têo a hat.
41: A splendid convention. (I still say ask both of them out.)
Page not found - /mt-static/seriously.mp3
Ok, lemme look for it.
And by the way, listen to B and baa, Teo. Ask them out. Again, it's just a date.
This is promising, if a little too long.
Teo is going out on a date with B and baa? This blog just keeps getting weirder.
And thanks for the links. I guess if I'm feeling really dedicated I'll edit down SB's. Unless someone has the other one to hand.
50: the use of 'jimmies' just makes it weirder, as I only hear the abbrev. of "jimmy hat", a decidedly different usage than the intended sprinkles.
Unfogged: getting teofilo laid since, eh, maybe tomorrow.
Look, I appreciate all the attention, folks, but I'm not really looking right now. I'm only going to be in Ithaca for a few more months, and I'll be very busy during that time. If something unexpected turns up, great, but I'm not going to be seeking people out.
It's precisely that kind of time when things tend to turn up. Or such has been my experience.
That's what I hear. I'm not too concerned.
If something unexpected turns up, great, but I'm not going to be seeking people out.
Gotta get yourself out there dude. The more you date, the better you'll get at it. Even bad dates are educational. Hell, even bad dates can still result in a bj.
Meh. Like I said, I don't really care at this point.
Are you on an exchange program? I thought you were in NM.
You will not become the Yoda of not-dating. Not on my watch!
I would so *totally* date the woman in 43. Her ad reminds me of my boyfriend's profile, which was only slightly funnier than Baa's 37.
55: Nathan, you're completely humorless. I'm sure the poster in no way intended to make you think of condoms, and the author's intent is determinative.
I'm only going to be in Ithaca for a few more months, and I'll be very busy during that time.
Translation: I refuse to date anyone who I don't think I might marry.
Teo, Teo, Teo.
the author's intent is determinative.
I'm gonna quote this out of context all the fucking time.
You will not become the Yoda of not-dating. Not on my watch!
Aren't you the Luke Skywalker of not-dating?
Feel free, everyone thinks so anyway.
Ithaca? You can't get a date in Ithaca? Duuuuude.
the author's intent is determinative.
Or so the mullahs would have you believe.
I'm from NM, but I go to Cornell. People seem to have an inordinate amount of trouble with this concept.
People, I get the sense that teofilo doesn't really want to talk about his dating situation any more.
I'm only going to be in Ithaca for a few more months, and I'll be very busy during that time
Busy doing what? Busy doing something that will make you say 50 years hence "I feel content dying alone because of what I accomplished in Ithaca?" If so, rock on. From my experience, almost nothing is like this. I have postponed lots of valuable life-building experiences beacuse I was too busy. In retrospect, that was almost invariably the wrong decision.
Aren't you the Luke Skywalker of not-dating?
Luke had much to learn.
78: Nah, I'm okay. Thanks for looking out for me, though.
You complain about a lot of things, but then strenuously insist that you do not care about anything. I find this difficult to believe.
I didn't have trouble with the concept, téo, but I thought you were finished with school and you always post late, so I thought it was mountain time.
Busy doing something that will make you say 50 years hence "I feel content dying alone because of what I accomplished in Ithaca?"
That sounds rather like my dad's view on me having a boyfriend. But, but, there's still school to finish!
Jesus, people. I'm not confining myself to a cave until I graduate. I'm just saying I'm not going to be doing stuff like answering personal ads while I'm surrounded by cute girls every day.
Not sure if this has been pointed out, but this, "Those who never exist cannot be deprived," is specious, or at least question-begging. And it seems to be the crux of the argument. During life, we are deprived of some things. If not alive, we are deprived of all things, but not being in existence, so the argument goes, we cannot be deprived. But is that right? Doesn't it make sense to say, that by not existing, things that would have existed are deprived of existence, which includes all things we might obtain or be deprived of, in life. Which would be, clearly, the greater deprivation.
So what we're left with is: can it be said that things that could have existed, but do not, are deprived of existence? That seems to be an open question. Or, in fact, an unanswerable one. And it doesn't sound from the blurb that the book actually addresses it. So not worth anyone's amazon points. You can thank me, w-lfs-n, in your own good time.
I'm a little drunk. But I wrote five pages! Of drunk writing.
79: Listen to the nice man. When Baa and I agree about something, there's no way it's wrong.
85: Yeah, because, you know, only losers meet people through personals ads.
83: Most of my complaining is in jest.
85: Will you be asking the cute girls out? Because otherwise, that's just a big fat rationalization.
I'm surrounded by cute girls every day
The flaccid bigotry of low expectations, Teo. You need to move from "being surrounded" to "breaking through the lines of defense."
"even bad dates can still result in a bj."
This is the one thing teo should remember. And I think it ties in with the deprivations of not existing.
69: entirely possible, but even given that I'm not convinced of authorial intent. Oh well.
'Too busy' is a fine excuse, as it gets a lot of work done and sidesteps inevitable drama with Cuddlebug or Halo-is-a-sport, but just as long as the attitude doesn't persist into one's late twenties.
88: That's not what I mean. Take a look at how many ads there are on CL Ithaca.
Translation: I refuse to date anyone who I don't think I might marry.
See, I would have glossed this as "Translation: I don't understand that anyone I might date is in fact someone I might marry." Of course the result is the same, continuing the astral conjucntion of me and bphd agreeing on everything. (which is good)
89: I know I'm being a pain, but I don't believe that either. Like the conversation about calling and friendships? That was serious, and you had a lot to say. But then you were like "whatever, I don't care that much."
but even given that I'm not convinced of authorial intent. Oh well.
Good man.
Luke had much to learn.
Luke had a less ascetic approach to not-dating, one that included, sometimes, wondering about maybe dating.
That was before he found out that the Swedish grad student was his father.
96: I said "most," not "all." And maybe you're right; I don't know.
Teo, if you keep sounding so passive, we're going to have to hook you up with cuddlebunny as a match made in heaven.
Translation: I refuse to date anyone who I don't think I might marry.
I fall closer to this end of the spectrum. It's not that I dated by picking out china patterns by the second date, but if it was clear we weren't suited for each other, I usually broke it off, because then I could date other people.
I might be right. I also should disclose that I'm in a foul, foul mood and thus prone to overstatement.
It's equally naïve to think that authorial intent is determinative and that authorial intent simply doesn't exist.
Why would a bad date result in a blowjob?
See, the problem is, too much advice all at once. What Teo needs is to hang out with me for a weekend. Then, being totally disgusted with the behavior of men, he will be forced to talk to women, which will lead, perforce, to canoodling.
re: 104, we seem to have a definitional problem on "bad date."
101: Yeah, but you then went on to *date other people*, which is entirely different from refusing to date at all because no one is perfect enough except people you can't bring yourself to talk to, thereby allowing yourself to retain the illusion of their unattainable perfection.
103: Of the two, however, the latter is a far less grievous error.
the Swedish grad student
Holy crap, I'd forgotten all about her. I wonder if she'll ever write me back.
no one is perfect enough except people you can't bring yourself to talk to, thereby allowing yourself to retain the illusion of their unattainable perfection
Whoa, now. Where are you getting this from?
You should put me in touch with her.
104: the date itself is bad, but the parties do not have any hard feelings aftewards. strike that, reverse.
Hey - if the guy is surrounded by cute girls, and has all the dates or asking-for-dates he can handle (hopefully non-zero), not answering CL personals is a fine approach.
110: I'm being hyperbolic, but I have the impression from what you've said that you don't really approach women you're interested in, and women who make it clear that they're available (e.g., by posting personal ads) are disqualified because you don't see them every day. But the reality is that people that one sees in person don't walk up and say "hi, I'm available" and offer a precis of their personality and what they're looking for; for all you know, cuddlebunny is one of the cute girls you sit next to in class.
107: I've been in téo's situation though. Few months left in one town, in the position where if it doesn't work out, I've got other things I should be doing, and if it does work out, we'll have to breakup as a few months isn't enough to solidify a long-distance relationship, so meh, why bother.
104: My lawyer acq in SF (corporate law, top 5) has told me about several dates that were just awful, but in the circles he runs in there's a weird economy of $$$dinner= bj, and actual good dates would be the ones resulting in intercourse. I was a little shocked but he seems to be enjoying it all.
107(a) seems a bit harsh.
Why would a bad date result in a blowjob?
Just because you're not having much fun on the date means you have to pass that tidbit on. Fake interest, fake enjoyment. Eyes on the prize.
Cala is death to hope. Weren't you telling Adam to avoid the woman in the Nerve personals too. Buck a guy up, wouldya?
so meh, why bother.
You might have a good time? I dunno. I'm not one to talk.
104: You won't let her smoke in your apartment.
I don't want to be bucked up, dammit. I never should have revealed my location.
in the circles he runs in there's a weird economy of $$$dinner= bj,
That's just a little fucked up.
Ok, I apologize for 107a. I meant not harshness.
Don't worry about it. No harm done.
I think téo should go out for coffee with geekgirl, like I said. Adam's chick is clearly nuts, and a guy who writes a post on shabbiness is not going to get along with a girl whose favorite possession is her skinny jeans, which suggest she follows fashion trends that make people look like ass.
I'm just saying I understand the lack of motivation for téo.
124: yeah, I thought he was trying to impress me at first, but it got corroborated by a gal pal of his I chatted up. Corporate law messes with people's heads.
124: SF Lawyers, I guess. Filthy rich in a sea of progressiveness might cause cognitive dissonance. Although the SF laywers I know haven't mentioned anything like that.
I never should have revealed my location.
Willy should never have put you on the spot. Email exists for a reason.
I don't want to be bucked up, dammit.
Definition 61. Teo doesn't want bitches all up in his grill.
In the circles I run in, there's a weird economy of lots of blogging = blowjobs, but no one else in my circles seems to know this.
Then in what sense does that economy exist at all?
I'm just saying I understand the lack of motivation for téo.
What are you people, sex camels or something? Isn't the prospect of several months of celibacy enough of a reason to date?
Email exists for a reason.
So that its sanctity can be violated, Pat.
I knew that Ogged, but you live clear across the country.
I would guess that 124 arises more from the trope that some people are assholes. And many of them practice corporate law.
I guess the basic problem I'm having is that my experiences dating in Ithaca have been uniformly disastrous, and I'm not very hopeful that's going to turn around in the few months I have left here. And even if it does, so what? What's the point of starting a relationship if there's no time to enjoy it? Better to spend that time on all the other things I have to worry about, like getting a job.
sex camels
My humps, my humps, my humps.
My lovely Teo lumps.
86: Existence isn't a predicate.
What are you people, sex camels or something? Isn't the prospect of several months of celibacy enough of a reason to date?
I've been in a long-distance relationship for three years. I manage.
So that its sanctity can be violated
Okay, I'm going to be quoting that out of context.
the other things I have to worry about, like getting a [blow] job.
or that is, whatever was quoted in 124. goodnight all!
I knew that Ogged, but you live clear across the country.
I've met you, you tease.
137: One might even go so far as to say that many people go into corporate law because they value money very highly indeed, and that in such a case it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to assume that spending it on someone means they owe you something.
washerdreyer, busting out the Immanuel Kant!
137: good trope, but it's so much easier to hate on Simpson & Thatcher, if only for the reason that they're getting more action than the scientists.
In the circles I run in
No wonder you're not getting anywhere.
In other news, you should retitle your other blog, How Ogged Got His Grooved Back. Notch, whatever. You can thank me in the meta tags.
I made the decision to stop caring about dating a few weeks ago, btw. I probably should have mentioned it here.
I've been in a long-distance relationship for three years. I manage.
It won't kill you, but it's not something that's fun to do voluntarily
but on topic, I think the pragmatic argument advanced by Cala in 116 makes lots of sense. The opposition comes, I think, from the nagging feeling that there's something lethal about approaching dating (dare we say, love) in that spirit of pragmatism.
lots of blogging = blowjobs, but no one else in my circles seems to know this.
Stealth blowjobs? That's an intriguing talent.
The opposition comes, I think, from the nagging feeling that there's something lethal about approaching dating (dare we say, love) in that spirit of pragmatism.
Well, sure. I didn't say it was particularly healthy or desirable, but I'm not much of a romantic. (This is fun when you get engaged and people ask how you know he's the one and the only one and you'll be together forever and you answer 'I don't.'
"Don't mind me. I just need to check a few things."
Obviously Kant somewhat out of context Kant, but I think a relevant point for text's argument.
Thanks, ogged. Though this isn't quite as awesome as when you put me in the hover text with Br/ian L/eiter.
Tonight Kant is gonna rock you tonight Kant.
I should probably go to bed too. I've been staying up way too late.
I should, but I can't sleep. Even after a pill that normally knocks me on my ass.
Demurely Kant showing a little skin Kant.
I hate being old enough that staying up late on a Monday night screws up my sleep significantly on a Tuesday night.
night noises to help the wide-awake.
165: Are you in a different time zone? It's 2:30 on the east coast. Teh late.
Pacific Time, and at work, no less.
It may be sound unwise, but when I need to sleep, a double shot of whisky and a benadryl work like a charm.
Why would a bad date result in a blowjob?
basically because nobody writes thankyou notes any more.
This thread is awesome -- is it still in operation? Taking notes as I read it.
100 -- this was actually my exact reaction when I read cuddlybunny's ad.
110 -- Where are you getting this from? -- Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, "She Must Be Somebody's Baby"
123 -- I don't want to be bucked up -- ATM (pwned by 131)
169 -- I have found fortified wines to be much better than whiskey at inducing sleep. Skip the benadryl, drink a glass of port or madeira.
86 -- I'm pretty sure that in order to be deprived you have to be conscious or at least potentially conscious of the deprivation.
This thread is awesome
Yes. And a cautionary example for being careful to never accidentally put the goldfish food in the vats where the brains live.
173 -- At my facility they keep the fish and the brains in the same tank. It makes a lovely tableau, the school of neon tetras swimming around a corpus callosum, the angelfish hiding in the folds of a cortex, the eels wrapping lazily around a cerebellum...
I made the decision to stop caring about dating a few weeks ago, btw.
Ha!
I obviously liked the human-extinction thread better than the dating thread it turned into. I supposed I ruined everything by being all sarcastic about the human-extinction dude. Damn me. Really, human extinction sounds sort of OK. Benatar is the Sartre of the future.
But since this is a date thread: do people here feel an obligation to date and have relationships? Do you feel abnormal if you don't? Do you feel that normality is a positive goal?
I'm not trying to pry! My questions are purely scientific. The Unfogged subject pool is a gold mine for the ambitious sexology/misanthropy researcher.
110 -- Where are you getting this from? -- Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, "She Must Be Somebody's Baby"
From the department of utterly irrelevant corrections -- I believe you are thinking of the Jackson Brown song, "Somebody's Baby", from the "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" soundtrack.
Right you are. Damn! I thought that was Tom Petty.
Weird that I would have thought that -- it doesn't sound much like the rest of Petty's œuvre.
As long ago as 1983 I was told that blowjobs were a girl's way of fulfilling her sexual-normality obligations without actually putting out. To me this women who do this are making a big long-term mistake, because their comparative advantage is not in blowjobs.
I made the decision to stop caring about dating a few weeks ago, btw.
Good call. Doing this is usually the prelude to getting an unfeasible amount of sex.
178: Yeah, but it's not exactly typical Jackson Brown either -- like he was trying to prove he could write a stupid, catchy pop song.
Catchy it certainly is -- I don't think I've actually heard it for 10 years or more, but I could hear it in my head in full the moment I thought of it.
Doesn't Jackson spell his last name with a terminal "e"?
I want to see Terry Gilliam direct a movie which includes the shot I described in 174. Damn I want that.
183: Yes, he does. The correcter corrected.
172: I don't think this is at all clear.
186 -- is a rock deprived of the experience of eating delicious hamburgers? (Is a snail?) I would argue that a nonexistent person is even less deprived than the rock or the snail, which do in fact exist, even if their range of options does not include devouring juicy, succulent hamburgers. Because the nonexistent person is not an entity, it is just a figment, a way of speaking about nothing.
Damn. Now it's not even a dating thread, but a Jackson Browne thread. How low can it sink? Mariah Carey? Britney? Let's please talk about human extinction again, this is depressing.
Sorry: "juicy, succulent hamburgers" was supposed to have a link attached.
Cala, you're twisting Adam's chick all out of proportion. Next you'll be calling her an ana. I think you took exception to her describing herself as "dance trained," but come on, she does say she can tap dance, and tap dancing is awesome, and anyway it doesn't always signal poor body-image motivation. She really likes her skinny jeans? Meh, she's a dedicated follower of fashion--maybe flaky. I think your fat-obsessed read is off.
The voices of the unborn and unconceived cry out to us, if only we would listen.
186: outside of semantic arguments, or making pretty poetry, I don't think we have the tools to even address this question.
188: How far? Gdansk Hilton, at least.
do people here feel an obligation to date
Only since I've been married.
do people here feel an obligation to date and have relationships?
Obligation? Never. They just happened. However, if the one I'm in currently vanished I could do the hermit thing very easily if that's the way things turned out. When it comes to linking up with more humans, I'm at the "Been there, done that, don't need any of the T-shirts" stage.
Well, if we're going to be all Jackson Browne and shit, this link says that Julia-Louise Dreyfus of Seinfeld will inherit far more than Paris Hilton.
Jesus.
Some here purport to be helping Teo by participating in this noisy chorus of voices going, essentially, "Teo, do this!" "Do you want to stay unlaid for several more months?" "Hit on this girl!" "What's your problem?" "Don't tell us you don't care!" "Getting laid is, like, OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE!"
And then telling him not to overthink it, because, you know, it's just a date. Well, with the intense attention people pay to this issue, it's no wonder it becomes so frickin' fraught for people.
I agree with Emerson that the hivemind offers up some dubious dating suggestions. If I remember correctly, when ogged was writing his personals ad, people were saying that his line about "kindness is sexy" was a good one (very busy today, so don't want to venture into the hoohole to confirm). That told me all I needed to know about dating advice from the Mineshaft.
"Do people here feel an obligation to date?"
I don't know whether it's a culture thing or a class thing or an age thing, but one of the things I've found bizarre about being in NYC is that everyone seems to have this grimly determined attitude towards dating. Singledom is seen as an affliction, like it's a problem to be solved. Single people have a job opening for "partner" and everyone goes on dates that resemble job interviews.
By contrast, in my circle of friends 8 years ago, people just lived their lives as single people and when they happened to meet someone they liked enough, they hooked up.
By contrast, in my circle of friends 8 years ago, people just lived their lives as single people and when they happened to meet someone they liked enough, they hooked up.
This seems like the logical thing to do. I only have one friend who goes the opposite direction and is constantly thinking "I MUST HAVE A GIRLFRIEND...HOW ABOUT THAT GIRL OVER THERE?" and because he's very nice and good-looking he's always able to show up at social events with these girls that he has little ibn common with and little ability to talk to. And we don't know what to say to her because the relationship clearly won't last very long. Why bother with all that?
"That told me all I needed to know about dating advice from the Mineshaft."
clearly written by someone who does not agree that kindness is sexy.
little ibn common
This is not actually my friend's name. Or so the mullahs would have us believe.
I believe I would start over, and not want to be a hermit, but I'd be no better, no more confident, probably not even any more self-aware, than I was thirty years ago.
Reading some of the advice above, realizing how passive and diffident I would apparently seem were I were acting in a way I would be comfortable, how false and miserable were I to try to "take it up a notch," leaves me feeling blessed not to have had to find out.
200: Kindness is not sexy. Nor is it unsexy. Rather, it has nothing to do with sexiness. Unless "sexy" has come to mean nothing more than, "a good thing."
201: His name is actually Ibn Common, the Younger.
62 applies to dating...I agree that dating random people is good experience...but not bringing them around to meet your friends as your "significant other" on the basis of very little experience.
It's like being the boy who cried WMD. After all these aborted relationships, who will believe Little ibn Common is telling the truth when he actually has a girlfriend that he will love forever? His friends will just say "Ah, another doomed relationship" and airily wave her adieu.
Some people find kindness to be a sexually attractive quality. You do not. Presumably, on that basis, you would not have answered ogged's ad, and the line would have been serving some useful function.
I think you took exception to her describing herself as "dance trained," but come on, she does say she can tap dance, and tap dancing is awesome, and anyway it doesn't always signal poor body-image motivation.
Oh, come on now. You guys saw 'dance-trained', that her picture was cute, and concluded that she was an intellectual with an amazing ass because 'she's a professional dancer!!11!', when she lists her profession as writer. I haven't argued for an eating disorder, just that saying 'dance-trained' isn't really a good proxy for 'fantastic current body' any more than 'high school letterman' means you're athletic at age 30.
Dagger, you wouldn't have answered my ad? You bitch.
Cala's just trying to crush our dreams.
198: ...in my circle of friends 8 years ago, people just lived their lives as single people...
Interesting. That's the way I remember it from more than forty years ago. Either the desperation wasn't there or I was oblivious to all of it. Where's all that Sex and the City angst coming from? If we met someone interesting we asked for a date, if they said "no" we shrugged and waited for the next interesting person to appear, and so on.
210 - I wouldn't have answered it, either, based on being "as affirming as Katie Holmes". I had the foresight to know that spelled trouble even back then...
"Kindness is sexy" brings up bad memories of being in the little-brother role, which is highly unsexy. It strikes me as a sort of post-sexy statement for someone who's already had their wild and crazy sexy fun and now wants to become a nice person and still have some fun. Plus, kind people are easier to get along with and less high-maintenance.
I am incapable of taking "kindness is sexy" at face value at all. So I wouldn't have answered Ogged's ad either, which is a good thing given my feelings both about the Lur, and about our kidney-deficient minority.
in my circle of friends 8 years ago
Either the desperation wasn't there or I was oblivious to all of it
Eight years ago, you weren't around the edge of your child-bearing years, nor, presumably, had all your friends settled down into stable relationships. Desperation ratchets up quite a bit in the early thirties, I've found. As for Teo, well...
I would have answered it, ogged. Can't you see, I've been waiting here, all along.
based on being "as affirming as Katie Holmes"
That was just an example, Reading Shkillz.
Where is ogged's ad again? Posted below the fold somewhere, if I recall.
Arguably not as important as feeding the hungry; but you might give a small portion of your charity budget to Electronic Frontier Foundation.
Thanks for 215, Ogged. Gah.
I think one of my biggest fears is becoming one of those women in their 30s who is like "I must find a man now!!!" which, in turn, makes me worry that I'll become that person now so that I avoid becoming that woman in my 30s. That person annoys the hell out of me.
So what if by saying that, she's also signaling qualities about her body? So much the better for her if she's being accurate, and attracts men looking for the qualities she's signaling. Anyways, she's said in her profile that she's slim/petite already, so unless she's really misportraying herself or a freak about her weight, it at least seems possible that she just wants to say that she likes dancing.
And sexy doesn't have to end at 30 for women, Cala.
I've been calling "ogged!" for the past ten minutes or so, but nothing doing. what gives?
That post of Labs below Ogged's made me laugh. "If this guy were a rapper, his name would be Toolio."
And sexy doesn't have to end at 30 for women, Cala.
No; I believe the Derbyshire standard is 25.
(30 for professional athletes)
228: we had an interesting discussion the other day: if you had to sleep with only over 30's or only under 30's, which would you pick? over 30 won hands down.
Eight years ago, you weren't around the edge of your child-bearing years, nor, presumably, had all your friends settled down into stable relationships.
Yeah, this is kind of what I was thinking when I said it might be an age thing.
I think also, as far as NYC is concerned, a lot of people have moved here recently and don't have a family-and-friend support network close by, so dating sometimes becomes a substitute for family and friends.
As it turns out, ogged is a security guard working in my building.
I didn't realize that this thread was the dating thread. I'm reposting my comment from "Preview This," sicne this thread is more active.
I admit taht I haven't ready all of the comments yet. It's rude of me to jump in with a bleg without havign done so, but I'm in a hurry. I figure that I'll catch up by the time anyone comments:
I need advice, and I don't have time to call my live friends. After awkward date with guy who knows some of my friends, I said "See you round," as I walked into the T station.
I thought that this was a subtle way of saying that I wasn't really interested in anything more. It was obviously too subtle.
I got the e-mail suggesting that he cook me a stir-fry. (It had an emoticon in it, and I really believe that there's a clear dividing line between thsoe who like emoticons and those who think that they're an abomination. It tells you a lot about a person.)
Yesterday I got a message on my phone which said, "Please call me."
I need a good way to say politely but firmly that I'm not interested. I want to avoid that--kindly meant, but I think rather hurtful--crap about wanting to be friends. He is a nice person, but I refuse to tell him taht he's a nice guy. I'm kind of a wuss and would love to do this by e-mail, but I kind of think that that's a dodge. I do need to send him an e-mail anyway, becasue I won't be home until late tonight and don't want to call then. So,
(1.) What's the best thing to say in an e-mail that won't lead him on but acknowledges the fact that I've kind of been ignoring him.
(2.) What should I say on the phone? I don't want to clobber him, but I'm afraid that if I'm not *really* blunt, he won't get it.
"Fuck off and die" should do the job.
1.) What's the best thing to say in an e-mail that won't lead him on but acknowledges the fact that I've kind of been ignoring him.
(2.) What should I say on the phone? I don't want to clobber him, but I'm afraid that if I'm not *really* blunt, he won't get it.
"I'm really busy being gay right now" should cover both of those.
Don't be so modest, ogged.
bg: is it just one date? You shouldn't have to break up with a person after just one date. You can do this over e-mail, I think.
Hi [name]--
Thanks for your offer to cook me stir-fry, but I'm not interested.
Cheers;
Bostoniangirl.
234: It's hard, for everyone. I was once dumped incredibly awkwardly by someone whose *job* was talking to people about difficult things. That was bizarre.
Seriously, I think you are on the right track to avoid all the cliched stuff, even if it's true.
are you trying to avoid calling him tonight? that wasn't clear to me. You could just send a quick email to say that you got his message but you've been busy and will get back to him tomorrow or whatever.
On the phone, I'd just say that it didn't click for you. I think being very straightforward is much nicer than dancing around it, since he obviously isn't picking up your subtle hints. You can say something nice if it's true and you want to (e.g., I'm flattered, but...).
Don't feel bad about doing this. It's somewhat his fault for not picking up on your lack of enthusiasm, so don't feel badly about being clear in a polite way.
hmmm. I can't say I disagree with those saying just do it by email. I can understand though, if you're trying to be a bit more personal about it because of the friend-of-a-friend aspect.
I can't call him tonight, because I won't get home until 11.
It was just one date. I have a strong feelign taht he's invested a lot in that one date. He sent me a follow up e-mail, becasue I said that I don't really liek talking on the phone which is generally true.
do it by phone if you're uncomfortable with just emailing .... but do it soon.
Why not just tell him your online Svengalis advise against your continuing to see him? I'm sure he would understand.
Tell him that you've just committed to The Relationship-free Life (TM) because you don't want the grief that comes with dating losers like him.
244: right.... and if that doesn't work, tell him you put it to a an internet vote.
"The chemistry just isn't there" is the kindest rejection I've heard. Chemistry is widely known to be irrational and random and nobody's fault. (Chemists, of course, disagree, but who cares what they think?)
"Sometimes the wave-function collapses, and sometimes it doesn't" might be more scientifically accurate.
How about:
Dear G:
I'm sorry about not getting back to you sooner. I didn't check my messages until it was too late to call you, and I won't be home until late tonight.
Coffee was pleasant, and I'm sure that I'll see you around at various soft/ball gatherings, but I'm really not interested in a stir fry. or [but I don't think that going over to your place for a stir-fry/dinner would be a good idea.]
BG
that's basically what I meant by `it didn't click'
Geez, Emerson might be right. That is a kind rejection.
247: that looks fine. I like the second ending better.
247: Nice, although I'd go with the first wording rather than the one in brackets, which invites inquiry. ("What do you mean, 'not a good idea'?")
Polite, but really unambigous.
252: good point. i retract suggestion for 2nd ending.
Sometimes the wave-function collapses, and sometimes it doesn't
Now don't feel bad -- just think of it this way: You're a cat in a box...
Thanks.
Now tehre's only one question. Do I write "stir-fry" or "dinner?"
Y'all make everything so complicated. Use Emerson's language.
I didn't check my messages until it was too late to call you, and I won't be home until late tonight.
Thsi si goign to be revised to read:
"I didn't check my messages until it was too late to call you. I won't be home until late tonight, so I wanted to send off a prompt e-mail."
256- "stir-fry, dinner, or other interpersonal date-like interaction."
More seriously: dinner.
Also, 258- you're putting too much effort into this. It was one date.
Dinner, not stir-fry. You want to avoid the possibility that he thinks you're rejecting the cuisine rather than the company, and comes back with an offer of roast chicken. And throwing in Emersons' "The chemistry just isn't there," works too.
Would you still be turning him down if he had offered to cook pilaf?
260 is exactly right. I am too soft-hearted.
255: yeah, the wavefunction always collapses, so that analogy doesn't work so well
254: yes, you are. But I had the impression you were agonizing about this because of the mutual friends aspect. No?
But the wavefunction doesn't collapse on schedule, right? Just when it feels like it.
266: That and because I think it probably took a lot of courage on his part to ask me out. It is done. I have sent the e-mail.
Also I tend to put off doing unpleasant things.
268 -- the wave-function collapses when you open the box I think. But IANAParticlePhysicist.
(And if I'm not mistaken, soupbizkitt is one -- so listen to him, not me.)
267: no it collapses when you have an `observer'. Which isn't quite the same as `on schedule'. The whole terminology is a bit problematic.
probably took a lot of courage on his part to ask me out.
I smell a backstory! (Or maybe BG just thinks she is teh extra-hott stuff?)
I ought to write a novel titled "Schrödinger's Date".
270: yes, in that analogy `opening the box'.
oh, and IANAPP either. I started heading that way at one point, so more of a path not followed thing.
was there any ever doubt that BG is teh extra-hott stuff?
273: Thomas Hardy sort of did it already.
278: sorry. Jude the Obscure has a nice wavefunction-y feel to it.
279 -- Huh. I read that many yrs ago but have no memory of't.
I was playing to the audience. BG doesn't seem like a "fuck off and die" -type babe.
I'm with Emerson, even though it's my doing. Let's get back to the pro-death view here.
...I think I had in mind more like "Austen, but with extra randomness". Or something.
Let's get back to the pro-death view here.
Fuck off and go to hell, sperm burper.
I think that we should form a committee to decide, granting that no one should ever have been born, which individuals really should never have been born. And then hire Lur assassins to do something about it.
If there were not an utter and absolute dark
of silence and sheer oblivion
at the core of everything,
how terrible the sun would be,
how ghastly it would be to strike a match, and make a light.
But the very sun himself is pivoted
upon a core of pure oblivion,
so is a candle, even as a match.
And if there were not an absolute, utter forgetting
and a ceasing to know, a perfect ceasing to know
and a silent, sheer cessation of all awareness
how terrible life would be!
How terrible it would be to think and know, to have consciousness!
But dipped, once dipped in dark oblivion
the soul has peace, inward and lovely peace.
285: Yeah. That goes back to my idea from long ago of allowing retroactive abortion. You look at your kids at 18 and then make the decision.
purport to be helping Teo by participating in this noisy chorus of voices going, essentially, "Teo, do this!"
I thought we purported to be giving Teo shit in the best Mineshafty manner.
Anyway, on the "why do people feel compelled to date" question, it's just about changing attitudes towards sex. Making dating/getting laid into something one "has" to do is a way of signalling one's opposition to the "wait until marriage" crowd, and of affirming that there's nothing wrong with wanting to have sex. Also, I suspect that for bookish types, a lot of it comes from loneliness. It's really unacceptable to advertise one's loneliness, but it's perfectly okay to say one wants to get laid. Sex and/or coupling is really the only socially approved route to intimacy: no wonder people emphasize it.
287: What youthful mother, a shape upon her lap
Honey of generation had betrayed,
And that must sleep, shriek, struggle to escape
As recollection or the drug decide,
Would think her Son, did she but see that shape
With sixty or more winters on its head,
A compensation for the pang of his birth,
Or the uncertainty of his setting forth?
is a way of signalling one's opposition to the "wait until marriage" crowd
Speak for yourself, agitator, I'm just trying to get a young man some nookie.
290: If I wanted to get a young man some nookie, I'd just use the direct approach.
No, no, we're spectating the sex lives of young attractive people. The fact that Teo is really a 43-year-old perv makes this all terribly painful and cruel. I feel that it's entirely unconscionable to take advantage of our innocent prurience and malice they way he's doing.
Should there be other "socially approved route[s] to intimacy" or is such a thing impossible even to attempt?
There's such a thing as nonsexual intimacy, Idp. Broaden your mind, and your anus.
Should there be other "socially approved route[s] to intimacy"
Massage parlors.
Alternative intimacy. Crystals. Feng shui. Aromatherapy. Coffee enemas. Wheatgrass. Kaballah. The whole nine yards.
Teofilo: saving it for marriage.
Very funny. But really, I think the part about loneliness is dead-on. For me, at least, the sex isn't really a big deal; what I really want is intimacy, and complaining about not getting laid is a way to express that that's socially acceptable.
This was what made me think cuddlybunny might be 4 U.
Yeah, maybe. I don't know. The problem with approaching things the way I do is that I want to get to know someone really, really well before becoming involved with her. This causes all kinds of problems.
If you're as much like me as I think you are, Teo, you can't do otherwise nor force yourself to act in any other way. You have to mutiply your other social contacts, places where you work or do something with people as much as you can. Having friends and sponsors is very helpful too.
303: so stop doing it. erm, seriously.
Easier said than done. But yes, I do need to stop doing this.
What Teo Needs To Do is find a family with lots of attractive daughters between the ages of 18 and 25 and a compulsively matchmaking mother.
Just don't elope with the youngest daughter, and everything should turn out just fine.
Doesn't he need to find a charming and affable friend whose annoying sisters want to marry him, who will then introduce him to such a family, first?
Had the exact same bias, yet sometimes became involved very quickly. Not scaring people away by being too intense is much easier when you've got other things to work on and talk about.
310: with extra randomness?
295: Of course, but it's not easy to just unilaterally decide to be more comfortable with non-sexual intimacy, because by definition one would need other people to go along with it.
Well, if we're talking first steps, he first has to have ten thousand a year.
I have a cute cousin about your age, Teo. She lives in Utah.
308, 310, 314: I remember noticing even as a teenager that she shows to best advantage, and appeals to him, because she's not trying, having written him off.
To be honest, I was thinking of Teo more as Bingley, who screwed up, got his signals mixed, listened to the wrong people, and lost his confidence---but is manipulated into wooing the woman he really wants anyway.
I was misled by your quoting the wrong figure; B=5, D=10. If Stendhal had written it, W would have been the central figure, a smarter and more ambitious version.
Nah, I was going along with LB's 310.
Seriously, what young men need and often don't get, particularly at school, are friends, groups, communities, the people you work with. Small colleges appear to put people together in what seem like lasting friendships, but everybody else needs to be brought into these relationships. I say young men because the problem is longstanding for them, but it must be true of more and more women. Looking back, I can say it was vital for me, and a close-run thing. Teo probably knows that already, but it's my two cent's worth.
319 has it exactly right. And Cor/nell Uni/versity is not a place where bookish types can easily find their community.
I don't speak for teo, but it would make me feel better if we continued to refer to Teoville or Teo U.
Refer to it as you wish, but there's no need to googleproof.
yeah, Teovi//e just doesn't read as nicely
Doesn't it worry anyone that the response to a post about death/ destruction/ the merits of non-existence/ the deleterious effects of global warming is inevitably a discussion of various persons' romantic/sex lives and/or lack thereof? [Usually, the latter.] It's like reading some nihilistic agony aunt column bathed in S&tC angst.
To nihilism, we respond with sex. Was it not ever thus, DE?
That's what I've always done, at least.
sometimes it's a response to sex with nihlism
Mr. Bridgeplate: TeoU aka aka WillyU aka CU is a large university. I, like Teo, are surely still anonymous even though someone could link us with CU. I can understand some concerns for privacy, but you seem paranoid.
No, I just have a realistic grasp of how little identifying information it takes to out someone.
If TMS responded with actual sex, it would make sense; instead, it responds with lamentations about the lack thereof.
Good grief, people, the Rapture is coming, get busy!
The point, DE, is that focusing on sex (which, for many of us, consists mainly of whining about not getting it) distracts one from focusing on death.
Domineditrix, we call it The Singularity around here.
332: who said nobody responded with actual sex?
Willy's right that it's a very large school and the bare fact of knowing I go there is unlikely to out me, but I've also revealed quite a bit of other information about myself that at this point probably is enough for someone to figure out who I am (as per SB). Personally I'm not too concerned about being outed, but I do think it's best to err on the side of preserving pseudonymy in general.
330: SB is right. I was very incautious about information on that scale, and I'm trivially outable by now -- you let out four such facts about yourself, and the intersection of the sets makes you Googlable. If Teo doesn't care about people naming his university, it should be because he doesn't mind being identifiable, not that it isn't a risk.
336: that's why we're going to premute all the pseudos on Jan 1.
If Teo doesn't care about people naming his university, it should be because he doesn't mind being identifiable
Which it is, just for the record.
we have just seen the death of Teo's 2040 Presidential hopes.
339: you're still going to be megan, come the 2nd.
No way, man. Megan always comes first.
(It's more fun that way.)
this exercise in successful calibration of the low-hanging-fruit system brought to you by lack of sleep and coffee. sorry.
oh, just generally... it seems the best policy.
I feel basically the same way Teo does. There are maybe 5 posts on this blog that I'd like to have scrubbed from the historical record, although for most of them it's too late to keep them from being in one of those archives.
This comment is probably the riskiest one and I'd like it if someone could delete it before it enters the Wayback Machine.
And delete apostropher's response to it as well. And delete apostropher while you're at it.
347: I hate to make the archives unreadable, but you want I should take your name off that exchange?
347: i've got a trail here too. I don't really care, but for somewhat related and tedious reasons, I may end up killing this pseud
349: Can you just delete the identifying phrase, the one that apostropher quotes? And delete it from his post too?
And delete apostropher while you're at it.
Much like herpes, I just keep coming back, Ned.
341 - When we switch around the psuedonyms? That would be funny, because I'm not psuedonymous, and then he would have to be a water engineer who plays Ultimate. Who will I be next?
340 - How 'bout you fuck yourself, Emerson.
349: like we won't all remember you're in vet. school.
Much like herpes, I just keep coming back, Ned.
Yes, the goal is to make you more like the unnoticeable and seemingly harmless HHV-7.
353: well, everyone should play ultimate anyway so that's not so much trouble. I guess you could be cryptic ned. Do you like horses?
Doesn't it worry anyone that the response to a post about death/ destruction/ the merits of non-existence/ the deleterious effects of global warming is inevitably a discussion of various persons' romantic/sex lives and/or lack thereof?
If you read the single-digit comments, you'll be able to see how it came about in this instance.
340 - How 'bout you fuck yourself, Emerson.
WTF?
356 - Not yet, although I suppose that might change starting January.
353: You're making progress, Grasshopper.
Fortunately, I don't use my real name. The real John Emerson is going to have quite a surprise when he's arrested on suspicion of bestialty and necrophilia.
Lobofilho, it's assertiveness training.
359: I hear they're giving out sekret decoder rings at the december get together, just to keep it all straight.
So the rest of us are fucked. Well, us and whoever gets to be JE next, of course.
I thought "John Emerson" and "Bob McManus" were pseudonyms used by Gary Farber.
See, w-lfs-n? Some of us appreciate helpful coaching, and try to follow through on our training. You can only learn by doing, you know.
Am I unappreciative? Is it my fault this person for whom you're hot for me to be hot wasn't in class today—no, and not Monday, either?
I think Cryptic Ned will be very pleased with the archive redaction. Well done, co-blogger.
Thanks a lot! I am now no longer narrowable to eight or ten people in the world. There are plenty of goat molesters in teoville or wherever the hell it is that I live.
367- can you do the same for me?
Maybe she is sick. You could call email her, to see if she needs the notes or assignments or maybe some soup. Start off with "Missed you in class today. Everything OK?"; I'll leave the rest as an exercise for you to finish.
369: As a well-known goat molester, I wanted to take this opportunity to renew my allegiance to our dark lord Satan. Also, to hell with King Billy and long live the Pope.
369: Point me at the sensitive comments? I don't know what to redact.
And you are too unappreciative, because for some reason you say I harass you.
Assignments, soup? Honey, it is a pretext for calling emailing her, which could lead to the pleasant chatting. What comes after "...Everything OK?"
"keeners"?
"Harass" is a term of endearment, Megan.
370-371: It sometimes works to knock on her door and say "My roommate's having an episode and I can't call the police because of a technicality with an old warrent. Could I stay here tonight?"
Such a complicated system you endorse, Megan. Ben, just use Ol' Reliable.
So far we've got:
"Missed you in class today. Everything OK?
My roommate's having an episode and I can't call the police because of a technicality with an old warrent. Could I stay here tonight?"
You're nearly there. How are you going to close the email, Ben? You'll want something openended, that gives her room to respond.
375- LB, sometimes you're way too serious, friendly and cooperative.
All the personal details I've given here have been lies.* Unfortunately, they're some of my best lies, and I'd like them redacted so that I can feel free to use them in my day to day life without exposing my false identity.
There are probably a few comments I wish would disappear, but I havne't the energy to find them.
*except of course that comment about my 13-inch cock, now lost deep inside the hoohole, which I swear is gospel truth.
How are you going to close the email, Ben?
I could crush you and eat pancakes,
Ben w-lfs-n
You'll want something openended
Also, it's really important that I tell you
Ben w-lfs-n
383: I'm not, however much I might resemble him, T-Rex.
382: I've got exactly the same problem.
382: Always the straight man and never the comic, that's me.
Sending her an email is a terrible idea. The whole goal of any interaction with a woman is to have the following exchange:
M: So, how you doin'?
W: Oh, I'm fine.
M: Heh heh, I know you're fine. But how you doin'?
This is best done in person or through IM, but over the phone is okay too.
387- you're way too serious, friendly and cooperative? You've used all your best lies here at unfogged? Or perhaps you too are burdened with a 13-inch cock?
Now anyone trying to out CN knows he's single, too.
389: I'm okay. I figure you mean about Chris? I'm doing fine, just feeling pre-emptively guilty about needing to keep on top of making sure we spend enough time with his widow and kids.
223--
"I think one of my biggest fears is becoming one of those women in their 30s who is like "I must find a man now!!!" which, in turn, makes me worry that I'll become that person now so that I avoid becoming that woman in my 30s."
isn't this the dating version of the surprise exam paradox?
395: I've met that women. Many times.
Of course, if you only date 18 and under, you're likely to be fine.
The problem with approaching things the way I do is that I want to get to know someone really, really well before becoming involved with her.
My college dating experience was like that. Freshman year, big circle of acquaintances and friends. Sophomore year, friends start pairing off. Junior year, friends start breaking up and little cliques form. Senior year, there are friends, couples, and exes, but it's almost entirely the same group of people.
It changes out in the real world because no one has time.
334: Ha! The Singularity has already come, meatware; you are all jacked into a virtual reality loop of never-ending desire and never-consummated lust.
It is Our revenge for those Maytag ads.
375: Point me at the sensitive comments?
There are sensitive comments on this blog?
Hey, our feelings get hurt just like anyone else's.
DE, since you are here, are you available on the 22 of December to hang out with me, w-lfs-n, and Bitch?
Glad you're here, comments. WTF is up with this?
Where are the moderate comments that will denounce this sort of insanity?
"this" should have linked to the contents of this.
401: To be sure. How did you lure w-lfs-n down?
401: On second thought, don't tell me.
I'd like to tell a triumphant tale of my luring skillz, but the truth is that he is going to be down anyway.
Oh, and speaking of anatomical pictures, you will all be saddened to know that we lost the c0ck pics that were sent in to the server move. None of us had the [heart|nerve|stomach] to move them.
[heart|nerve|stomach]
/balls
It was to be the best experiment of all time. Mountains would have moved, oceans stilled, and a bright shining light would have emerged from heaven.
But then there were less than eight.
Good grief - if all it takes is a picture of tits ...
we lost the c0ck pics that were sent in to the server move
Always ask the pack rat before posting Becks: I've still got 'em.
-gg-d has been using them as wallpaper.
Oh, Ogged. I never should have doubted you.
Actually, it wasn't quite deliberate. I grabbed the mail off the old server, assuming it was all mine, since no one else kept a mailbox there, and I opened a box I didn't remember, called "foo," and COCK! COCK! COCK! It was, uh, surprising.
All your phalli are belong to Ogged.
415 - I was wondering how you ended up with them, considering you were all "dude, I take no responsibility for the cock pictures. that's all on you and Ben."
I must go now and perform oral sex on watch television with the Biophysicist. It is the duty of the Unfoggetariat to take this thread to the 500 mark, at which point someone must cry out in ecstasy.
415: That'll teach you to open boxes that you're not sure about, Ogged. Have you read no mythology?
415: I'm sorry, I have to go somewhere and die laughing now.
and COCK! COCK! COCK!
Were these exclamations accompanied by a throwing of the hands into the air?
Continuing my thought: seriously, ogged, nice delivery.
