I've also seen a corollary that something must be worth doing because it is so incredibly hard to do.

I agree with your ex. Endurance athletes are insane.

Hm, I would have thought that in this context, it was mostly just trash talk, i.e., "I'm so good that if I push to the 'pain' level, I know my opponents, who are mere weaklings, shall truly die."

this idea of suffering as being good for you

Ah yes, the Mother Teresa school of compassion. AIDS is good for you! Cancer is a gift from God!

the more you suffer, the more you can suffer, the better you are.

In fact, the ability to suffer almost entirely determines the order of rank.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

I got way into the suffering for suffering's sake of long-distance running two summers ago. It was fantastic, but I did it to the point that it crowded out everything else in my life, and I was throwing up a couple of times a day--not bulimic, I'd just run so hard for so long, in horrible heat and humidity, that food wouldn't stay down.

Sometimes I fantasize about getting back into it, but it's way too addictive. I can easily see how people get into stuff like ultra running.

"the ex, who is Jewish, had absolutely no interest in suffering for the sake of suffering"

Jews have plenty of ambient and historical suffering to fall back on, after all.

Throwing up after a race was seen as an indicator of good effort back when I ran track and cross country.

the ability to suffer almost entirely determines the order of rank

But for Nietzsche the ability wasn't about enduring suffering, but suffering no matter what the circumstance.

So, my theory that suffering makes you a bad person doesn't sound as if it's widely shared.

If I didn't get the heaves at least once at a rugby practice I didn't consider myself to have been pushed.

But the ex, who is Jewish, had absolutely no interest in suffering for the sake of suffering, and that view sure has some intuitive appeal.

I'm with Ex on this. BTW, what's her number, again?

Translation of the full passage for the non-typesetters among you (Cicero, 45 BC):
But I must explain to you how all this mistaken idea of denouncing pleasure and praising pain was born and I will give you a complete account of the system, and expound the actual teachings of the great explorer of the truth, the master-builder of human happiness. No one rejects, dislikes, or avoids pleasure itself, because it is pleasure, but because those who do not know how to pursue pleasure rationally encounter consequences that are extremely painful. Nor again is there anyone who loves or pursues or desires to obtain pain of itself, because it is pain, but because occasionally circumstances occur in which toil and pain can procure him some great pleasure. To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure?
On the other hand, we denounce with righteous indignation and dislike men who are so beguiled and demoralized by the charms of pleasure of the moment, so blinded by desire, that they cannot foresee the pain and trouble that are bound to ensue; and equal blame belongs to those who fail in their duty through weakness of will, which is the same as saying through shrinking from toil and pain. These cases are perfectly simple and easy to distinguish. In a free hour, when our power of choice is untrammelled and when nothing prevents our being able to do what we like best, every pleasure is to be welcomed and every pain avoided. But in certain circumstances and owing to the claims of duty or the obligations of business it will frequently occur that pleasures have to be repudiated and annoyances accepted. The wise man therefore always holds in these matters to this principle of selection: he rejects pleasures to secure other greater pleasures, or else he endures pains to avoid worse pains.

So, my theory that suffering makes you a bad person doesn't sound as if it's widely shared.

I kind of share it, in fact.

6 is fantastic.

This post is badly timed with a inkling I had to start up again this summer. All this talk of getting the heaves, constant pain, etc. is making it way too tempting.

And yes, LB, I am a bad person.

14 ruins 6! Keep the explanations on Standpipe's blog!

I only get to borderline heaving in my savate class, but years ago, when I did some boxing (just a few months of college level training, no competitions) I was usually on the verge of it every single session. I saw people literally on their knees unable to move any more during the conditioning sessions.

I can understand (and partly share) the idea that something is more pleasurable if it takes some work to attain it, but the extremes of suffering that endurance athletes go in for ... eech.

I thought I should post the translation or I might be banned as a latin spambot.

Being proud of your self-inflicted suffering makes you, well, I don't know about a bad person, but a particular sort of person, anyhow.

I'm not sure if it's pride, but it's definitely joy.

(Generic "you", there, as I hope was clear.)

I can understand thinking, "Wow, I'm in pain. I must have worked hard." But I can't imagine really enjoying it. For me, the pain is an excuse to whine.

All the competitive triathletes I've known were a bit off.

Come on ogged, no pain, no gain.

Masochists are just wired differently from most people. I think it's not that they enjoy pain per se, but the effects of pain, for physiological and psychological reasons I don't fully understand.

I can't imagine really enjoying it

The "runner's high" isn't a myth. The rush you get after a particularly hard workout is addictive as hell.

Suffering is a very attractive quality in some people, particularly my enemies.

The "runner's high" isn't a myth.

True, but if you smoke cigarettes, you can get that just going up a flight of stairs, without all the hours and hours wasted. Work smarter, not harder, people!

Certain athletic disciplines [coughfucking balletcough] will actually train you into a complex relationship with the pain.

Or you can smoke other things, and get high without leaving your chair.

Seriously, Ogged, you need to learn to kick faster so you don't turn into someone like this. The 100 freestyle is the ideal race.

I get my pain in small doses, Jake.

JM, do you have any photos showing you pouring the blood out of your shoes so you can return to the dance? People would be impressed

31: yeah, gymnastics is a bit like that too.

It would be impressive, Emerson. Sadly, no.

Pain is weakness leaving your body.

But my understanding is that endurance athletes have linked the pain from their training with the rewards from endorphins and winning they get after. They've come to love that suffering, but they aren't suffering for the sake of suffering. Do we think they would like a different pain they couldn't link to their training (like a toothache)? Or is it that when they can link all pains to their training (like the guy who was hit by the semi) that they've gone too far?

I remember pushing myself pretty far, and several people here have spoken to that. But I still didn't like it when I hit my head against something and it hurt to no good end.

[coughfucking balletcough]
[coughfucking martial artscough]

There's hurts so good and hurts so bad, now.
Running till you puke: good pain.
Translating Latin: bad pain.

(Good pain, bad pain, what begins with pain? Painelope's painting! pain, pain, pain.)

36: that always looked like fun (I've got family who did this). In the gym all we got was bloody strips of leather grip. But that was superficial damage, not like dancers feet.

when I hit my head against something and it hurt to no good end

This definition of "something" excludes headboards, I take it.

I've got family who did this.

Then there's emotional pain!

Actually, perhaps that re-enact the pain of old relationships in your new ones is the same mechanism as love-the-pain-of-exercise, because it means it's really worth it. Like, it shouldn't come too easily.

I don't really proscribe to the relationships-should-be-painful POV, though. But there's a youthful type that thinks so, and maybe the logic is on the same tracks.

Contrabass strings are thick enough, and callouses robust enough, that I never played until my left hand fingers bled, but I did manage to coax some blood from my right hand thumb, as the finger separated from the nail, from the bow's frog.

Of course, apostropher.

42 Was this the summer of '69?

Can you get a contrabass at the five-and-dime?

44: obviously.

The playing guitar until your fingers bleed thing is pretty common, but usually you don't really notice. And it messes up your strings and you can't really play for a few days at least, so it's really couterproductive. Adams was a complete wanker though.

re: 42

Musical instrument practice does generally involve some degree of pain, yeah. Or at least, frustration.

i) but it's way too addictive. I can easily see how people get into stuff like ultra running.

I ran with a group that had lots of ultra marathoners, and it was amazing how many were former and current addicts of less healthy practices. Not that ultra-marathoning is very healthy (see below).

ii) I think this training and competing through pain is a real problem for the athletes, because they often can't distinguish good (muscle) and bad (bone, connective tissue) pain. A friend of mine who was state champ in road and mt biking said he felt the competitions were mostly about capacity for enduring pain. Now, he has almost no cartilage left in his knees. Lots of athletes get faster when they train more slowly and do speed and strength work in measured doses. I did a cross-state relay in Illinois, and we had a triathlete join our team and he ran each of his legs at a pace that left him collapsing and puking at the end. There would be one or two practices a season that left me that way in college, but I can't really imagine doing that to myself any more.

iii) I just read Lance Armstrong's War, a book about you know who. The riders all search each other for the signs of pain - they consider the little clues that another rider is maxed to be like tells in poker.

Me and some guys from work, had a blog and we tried real hard. Bob quit it, Unf got married...

Sure, guitar. I played the oboe until my fingers bled.

I'm interested in LB's theory, from 11. Care to expound?

I played the stereo until my fingers bled.

My stereo is made of broken glass and rusted tin.

Exotic masturbators come up with all kinds of ingenious explanations.

I played the fool until my ego bled.

Me and some guys from work, had a blog and we tried real hard. Bob quit it, Unf got married...

Shoulda known we'd get left with Ogged...

distinguish good (muscle) and bad (bone, connective tissue) pain

Yeah, this is important, and something I've learned to be very careful of only in the last few years. When certain kinds of pain crop up, you really do have to stop doing whatever it is that's causing them, even if you can "push through." I'm getting injured to the point of sitting out much less frequently now.

re: 57

Yeah, me too. Although I am quite prone to minor injuries I've had a lot less recently -- and I'm a lazy slob rather than someone obsessively over-training.

What about stairing at the internets till your eyes bleed? Is that noble?

stairing at the internets

Doesn't count as exercise, no matter how you spell it.

Comment through the pain, M/tch. Keep typing.

But ogged, my monitor requires constant climbing on the Stairmaster to keep the backlight on.

distinguish good (muscle) and bad (bone, connective tissue) pain

The ballet teachers were actually pretty good about teaching us this. Everyone besides me ended up with tendonitis by the time they were 16 regardless. I just have shin splints, wonky knees, and ankles that crack literally with every step.

Whay does getting injured make you sit out less frequently?

64: So you won't permanently damage your reading comprehension.

11 51

Death penalty defense lawyers use this argument a lot, sure the guy is a monster but he was abused as a child so it really isn't his fault.

Come on, people, these are some sweet lyrics:

And now the times are changin'
Look at everything that's come and gone
Somethimes when I play that old six-string
I think about you, wonder what went wrong

Standin' on mama's porch
You told me it would last forever
Oh the way you held my hand
I knew that it was now or never
Those were the best days of my life

This is kind of like that time I defended Lileks' prose, isn't it?

I find that song utterly depressing, to the point I can barely listen to it. It always sneaks up on me -- it starts out "woo! turn it up" and, by halfway through, I shut it off and want to crawl into bed and hide from the despair.

Pain is good for people with low self-esteem so they can feel like they deserve shit.

Listen through the pain, Becks.

Yeah, that's why I love it; it's so evocative of a sad kind of nostalgia.

And if I had the choice
Yeah, I'd always wanna be there
Those were the best days of my life

Damn, I'm getting depressed now too. I've defended Bob Seger previously. This is sort of in the same vein:

I awoke last night to the sound of thunder
How far off I sat and wondered
Started humming a song from 1962
Aint it funny how the night moves
When you just dont seem to have as much to lose
Strange how the night moves
With autumn closing in

Yikes. Happy thoughts.

That time of year thou mayst in me behold
when yellow leaves or none or few do hang...

Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese
Ballllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

"Bare ruined choirs" recalls the ruins of the monasteries after Henry VIII dissolved them: "choir" here means the place the choir sang rather than the choristers (the birds) themselves.

No love for "quires", I see, even though the words used to be spelled the same.

I kind of like it in the middle of the pack. You can work plenty hard enough to get the endorphins going without getting crazy about it.

As easy it was to tell black from white,
It was all that easy to tell wrong from right.
And our choices were few and the thought never hit
That the one road we traveled would ever shatter and split.

How many a year has passed and gone,
And many a gamble has been lost and won,
And many a road taken by many a friend,
And each one I've never seen again.

I wish, I wish, I wish in vain,
That we could sit simply in that room again.
Ten thousand dollars at the drop of a hat,
I'd give it all gladly if our lives could be like that.

I wish I had a brand new car
So far I've got this hatch back, and everywhere I go
My ass gets laughed at.
And when I'm in my car I'm laidback.
I've got an 8-track and a spare tire in the back seat, (but that's flat)
And you want to know what's really whack? See, I can't even get a date, so whatcha think of that?
I heard that prom night was a bomb night with a hood rat you could hold tight
But really now, when I'm in my car I can't even get a hello.

I wish I was a little bit taller, I wish I was a baller
I wish I had a girl who looked good, I would call her.

I heart you, h-g, but really. I like this song too:

Thank you for the days,
Those endless days, those sacred days you gave me.
Im thinking of the days,
I wont forget a single day, believe me.

I bless the light,
I bless the light that shines on you believe me.
And though youre gone,
Youre with me every single day, believe me.

Swingin' in the living room
Swingin' in the kitchen
Most folks don't 'cause
They're too busy bitchin'
Swingin' in there 'cause
She wanted me to feed her
So I mixed up the batter
And she licked the beater
I scream you scream
We all scream for her
Don't even try 'cause
You can't ignore her
She's my cherry pie
Cool drink of water
Such a sweet surprise
Tastes so good
Make a grown man cry

Ass
Titties
Two asses four titties
ass ass titties titties
ass-n-titties
Bisexual bitches
they do they friends
I love them hos
for letting Assault join in.

You know, thinking of terrible lyrics got me to google "unskinny bop." Christ, what a terrible song.

Whats got you so jumpy?
Why cant you sit still, yeah?
Like gasoline you wanna pump me
And leave me when you get your fill, yeah

Every time I touch you honey you get hot
I want to make love you never stop
Come up for air you push me to the floor
Whats been going on in that head of yours

Unskinny bop
Just blows me away
Unskinny bop, bop
All night and day
Unskinny bop, bop, bop, bop
She just loves to play
Unskinny bop nothin more to say

Friday night, it was late, I was walking you home
We got down to the gate and I was dreaming of the night
Would it turn out right
How to tell you girl
I wanna build my world around you
Tell you that it's true
I wanna make you understand I'm talkin' about a lifetime plan

That's the way it began, we were hand in hand
Glenn Miller's Band was better than before
We yelled and screamed for more
And the Porter tunes (Night and Day)
Made us dance across the room
It ended all too soon
And on the way back home I promised you'd never be alone

Hurry, don't be late, I can hardly wait
I said to myself when we're old
We'll go dancing in the dark
Walking through the park and reminiscing

(Instrumental break)

Friday night, it was late, I was walking you home
We got down to the gate and I was dreaming of the night
Would it turn out right
Now as the years roll on
Each time we hear our favorite song
The memories come along
Older times we're missing
Spending the hours reminiscing

Hurry, don't be late, I can hardly wait
I said to myself when we're old
We'll go dancing in the dark
Walking through the park and reminiscing

"Days" really pokes me in the bittersweet nostalgia somatic response circuitry. I love the Kinks.

Skee-Lo activates my yay!hee! region.

my yay!hee! region

We're all adults, RFTS. You can use the proper anatomical terms.

When certain kinds of pain crop up, you really do have to stop doing whatever it is that's causing them, even if you can "push through."

This gives away the game, though. Suffering isn't good for you; the end result of certain actions that entail suffering is good towards some end. I'm convinced (a) that great athletes know this, (b) that successful athletes use "suffering = good" primarily, if perhaps unconsciously, as a motivation tool at specific moments rather than as a creed, and (c) that, for some value of "suffer," great athletes suffer less than others, and this difference is part of what lets them become great.

People who believe suffering is good are going to seek suffering; generally, it's worth a fair bit of effort to avoid those people.

Skee-Lo.

I'm disappointed to discover that the white guy dunking on Skee-Lo at the end of the video was apparently a false memory.

I think 'Desiree Ficker' must be a joke name. I bet she got it from a Bond movie.

87 is a good call. Her whole site is very campy.

Aw, I heart you too, FL. But:

You know, thinking of terrible lyrics got me to google "unskinny bop."

"got me to google" s/b couldn't restrain myself from squealing with joy at the opportunity to trot out these lyrics from the tattoo on my backside.

Suffering is good, and I try to share.

Emotional suffering can either have very good results, or very bad results, or somewhere in between, right? People react differently and circumstances vary wildly. I'm uncomfortable with the idea that emotional suffering necessarily makes a person worse. It seems like that'd lead to the same sort of misguided thinking that compels our hypothetical pro-suffering person seek out suffering.

Heebie, my ass isn't *that* big.

You mean it runs down your leg?

Ew!

You mean it runs down your leg?

What doesn't run down his leg?

Or, I guess commensurate with what SCMT wrote, emotional suffering can have positive consequences, but the suffering itself isn't good. It's the introspection or whatever it can lead to that's good.

What doesn't run down his leg?

Triathletes.

santorum santororum

99!

One billion!

That's how they teach math in Texas?

Everything's bigger there, y'know.

Everything's bigger

Huh. I thought that was North Carolina.

Shhh, we're humoring the Texans.

And look how well that worked out the last time.

Texas: bigger than France!

(There are bumper stickers which say this.)

"Death penalty defense lawyers use this argument a lot, sure the guy is a monster but he was abused as a child so it really isn't his fault."

Not exactly. He was abused as a child so maybe we shouldnt kill him. Let's just put him away for the rest of his life because society shouldnt be surprised at how he turned out.

I was a distance swimmer. There was clearly the mentality that you had to put in long workouts in order to be fast.

I once swam 29,000 long course meters in a day in that search. I hated that pain then, but loved it the next day. There is pride is thinking that you can tolerate more pain than the next guy.

Of course, as I got older, I realized that I was an idiot and that you could swim fast without long, long brutal workouts.

A friend from law school was assigned to represent a guy who, after recounting his horrific childhood, said that he didn't really believe in all that bad childhood stuff because he'd had a pretty bad childhood and still turned out all right. My friend refrained from pointing out that most people's definition of turning out all right doesn't include ending up on death row for murdering your pregnant wife for the life insurance.

29,000 long course meters in a day

This is seriously, seriously off the hook. I don't think I swim that in a week. Then again, I am faster than you.

But let's get back to making fun of Texas now.

109 is the reductio we've all been waiting for to "and it works for me/I turned out ok" arguments. ttaM will be so happy.

"This is seriously, seriously off the hook. I don't think I swim that in a week. Then again, I am faster than you."

I am easily within the top fifteen fastest on Unfogged and still faster than you.

Faster than me and you include, Jake, the waterpolo guy, AWB, Megan, probably heebie. I have forgotten the rest.

111: Perversely, I like Texas. Some parts blow, like Dallas (THUMBS DOWN), but a lot of it is pretty cool, and I can dig the isolationist thing a lot better than the "We're Mainstream Republicans" thing, which is, AFAICT, relatively new in the region.

113: Whoa, there. I swim, but not in lines.

114: I've only been to Dallas, and even that was a long time ago. I'm sure there's plenty to like in the rest of the state. But it's still fair game.

Will, I'm faster than you in the heart-breakin' honky-tonkin' sense, but you'd kick my ass in the water.

111:"Texas: Still Flammable!"

Dear Modern Love:

In Texas, can you still kill your wife and her boyfriend if you catch them in the act? This question is very important to me, please answer is soon as possible.

Also, if your wife catches you in the act, she can't do that too, can she?

Yours truly....

Dear John,

Why does your wife have to have a boyfriend have to be killable?

"Will, I'm faster than you in the heart-breakin' honky-tonkin' sense, but you'd kick my ass in the water."

Surely, there is a mathmatical formula demonstrating how all Unfogged threads end up about heebie's butt.

112: who was making those arguments in this thread?

Similar to the formulae describing black holes.

in this thread?

No one. But they come up from time to time.

123:

A tight, well-formed black hole that I am not about to fall into.

Go ask Alice when she is ten feet tall.

all Unfogged threads end up about heebie's butt.

Ironically, that blackhole is the source of most of my facts and information.

Funnier than B, hairier than Ogged. What's not to love?

123: More like Godwin's law, but happier.

Dear Texas: I don't want to take any chances with a jury. I want an airtight case. I'm just a decent, law abiding man who wants to kill my wife.

Dave, are you still talking about Dallas?

No, cosmology.

all Unfogged threads end up about heebie's butt.

This makes me sound like a spider!

Thankfully, the Blue Book does not require attribution for facts or law pulled out of heebie's ass.

Best heebie as spider decription:

Surrounded, surrounded, in measureless oceans of space,
Ceaselessly musing, venturing, throwing,--seeking the spheres, to
connect them;
Till the bridge you will need, be form'd--till the ductile anchor
hold;
Till the gossamer thread you fling, catch somewhere

If you're referring to the thread I'm thinking of, I recall Ttam attributing positions to personal experience that were not so related.

But yeah, it's a good anecdote.

I wasn't thinking of a particular thread, and I don't think I know the one you mean; I just remember him decrying the type of argument.

Alright, I'll stop being bitchy. My parents didn't spank me, is my problem.

138 : Spare the rod, spoil the text.

Since this apparently went through a stint of being the song lyrics thread, can someone answer my cry? Who's the recently BOBBY SHORT, ok thanks.

"My parents didn't spank me" is code for "I masturbated a lot as a kid".

Dear Texas: I don't want to take any chances with a jury.

Hit the change of venue button!

141: Those two are not mutually exclusive. My brother, for example, would get in trouble just because he loved getting spanked so much.

My mother spanked very ineffectually. My second younger brother (fourth younger sibling) gave away the game by laughing afterward.

144: My mom spanked till tears stood in her eyes from the effort. She got "furious," as she called it, rather often. One wishes psychiatric care had been then what it is today.

106: I wanted to make one that says "Texas: almost big enough to be a Canadian province"

Snap!

146: Texas is bigger than Alberta (first one I checked), by about 20,000 square km. Don't let the maps fool you.

How about "Plenty of Room for More Idiots"?

And your borther is now into SM, AWB?

150: We aren't close, but I assume so. His wife is fucking MEAN.

148: It's smaller than ON, QC, BC, at least. As for the territories, probably even both halves of NWT now they've split it up. Obviously it's bigger than several, since the maritime provinces were little.

Anyway, it was just to get up the nose of people who would put "Texas: bigger than France" on their cars. I suppose "Texas: not quite as big as California" would work too.

One wishes psychiatric care had been then what it is today.

Or that your mom had been in better shape, poor thing.

*are little. As far as I know, the maritimes is still there.

It's much smaller than Alaska, at any rate. Not that Alaska is a beacon of liberalism.

Texas: bigger than the Yukon, with far more jerks and psychos!

Texas is bigger than California, soub, land-wise. CA has a bigger population, of course.

155: Oooops, that's what I was thinking of. It's bigger than California, isn't it?

156: Better music, though.

Also: "Texas: really insanely proud of its sillouhette!"

I mean "Smaller than the Yukon, but with far more jerks and psychos".

My favorite Texas-size-related factoid is that the distance from El Paso to Texarkana (in the northeast corner of the state) is greater than from Texarkana to Chicago.

160: You've got your butt, Texas has its silhouette, heebie.

157: yeah, see 158 ... I'd remembered it was 2nd largest state, but somehow mentally dropped Alaska off the list.

I remember Alberta is nearly the same size. Must correlate with cowboy hats.

163: Actually, my butt is shaped like Texas. Except there's a crack running through it.

Canada has cooler city names, though. "Moose Jaw", "Thunder Bay", "Saskatoon", "Prince Albert". Do you have Prince Albert in a can?

162: That's like my favourite Canada factoid for European relatives (esp. British). Halifax is closer to London, England than it is to Vancouver.

163: At least heebie doesn't have a tattoo of her butt on her shoulder.

165: That's pretty horrifying. Please stop.

I love how this thread just became a Texas Meet-up.

165: That's the Pecos River, I think.

170: Nah, the Brazos.

169: Yay! Everyone has to bring a bumper sticker design.

Also, everyone has to watch Doesn't matter if you live in Texas, it's just hilarious.

Texas: Wider than an Unfogged comment thread, but not as long

Goddamnit, I meant to write, "Everyone has to watch this clip." Whatever, just go watch it.

Oh god, please go to this site too.

The 176 link features Congressman Hall (D. N.Y.) nude.

I agree with 87. If her real name's "Desiree Ficker", what the hell is her porn star name.

In related news, an awful lot of sports types end up having so much weakness leave their body that they can't walk properly when they're fifty. It's probably a good idea to leave a little bit of weakness in there.

152: Texas dwarfs Prince Edward Island.

In related news, an awful lot of sports types end up having so much weakness leave their body that they can't walk properly when they're fifty. It's probably a good idea to leave a little bit of weakness in there.

Heh. On my college team if you saw someone slacking, you'd derisively ask if they were trying to get into the "walking when you're thirty club". And if someone asked you that, you'd crank your kicks up a little. Now I'm over thirty and I wish my knees and ankles didn't hurt constantly.

179: That's what 152 said.

176: Heino! Now I forget who introduced me to Heino.

Really? You know one of those albums? And it's not the Braillettes?

I would just about kill for a copy of The Handless Organist: Truly a Miracle of God.

I wonder how she prays.

Fervently.

That's awesome.

Despite fervent googling I have found no further information on the mysterious, mononymous Joyce.

I'm on the phone with the Chestnut, who is also obsessed with Joyce and wishes she got her rose from Heino.

I love the word fervently.

If Chestnut knew about both Joyce and Heino before seeing that site, then I'll bow to him as a higher power. And not the exponent kind.

190: But how do you love that word?

No, he doesn't even know Heino. I mean, come on!

There's a fair amount of Heino on YouTube, including this very pleasant "blau blüht der enzian".

The Chestnut's google-fu kicks Standpipe's ass.

Why do I always associate "fervently' with religion or masturbation?

His Phutatoriousness reigns supreme.

He's now off trying to find out more about Tino.

HEINO IS MALE? I feel so deceived.

I fervently wish there was a YouTube video of The Braillettes.

199: He has Graves-Basedow disease, which makes your eyes all poppy and gives you all kinds of fucked-up irritability and indigestion. Meaning: Don't fuck with Heino.

201 -- according to the Wiki page, Heino has that in common with the elder President Bush.

Quite right. One should never fuck with Heino.

The Joyce photoshops! Can't stop laughing!

Tino comes alive.

Rare sideways footage of Devastatin' Dave, the Turntable Slave.

I was a competitive athlete in college, and one year at the beginning of the season, during a particularly gruelling wall-sit, my teammate turned to me and said, "you know, all this 'getting in better shape' is crap. I think you don't get 'in shape,' you just get used to the pain. Screw muscle mass, all we're really doing here is building pain tolerance."

I took that insight all the way to nationals.

207: what sport did you play?

Sad: Tino lost his left arm in a car accident.

Tino lost his left arm in a car accident.

Time for a project with Rick Allen.

Sad? Or is God asking for a duet with a certain organist?

Pour some sugar on me!

With your right hand.

This discussion is going downhill fast. I refuse to allow this to move from discussing my right hand to discussing heebie's butt.

I have standards!

Will, I don't think I've ever stopped to ask you about your butt. Howsit hanging?

I refuse to allow this to move from discussing my right hand to discussing heebie's butt.

Pendulums, will, pendulums.

flat. very flat. nothing to speak of. Classic swimmer butt.

I was told by my ex that i never follow through on what I say I'm going to do... so I've signed up for Ironman Arizona, and I'm going to do it. It's 10% fuck you to her, 90% for me to prove to myself that I can put my body through all of that.

See, triathlete=crazy. Good luck, tweedle.

im not crazy. i want to see if my body can hold up. i've wanted to do this for the past 4 years, but the 10% was the impetus i needed

im not crazy

Famous crazy words.

i want to see if my body can hold up

Famous crazy words.

the 10% was the impetus i needed

Utterly sane.

What kind of shape are you in currently?

I think I'm in pretty good shape. Last Friday was accidentally a bear, in which I rode 50 miles on my bike. But it felt great, and I can't wait to ride again this weekend. Swimming is the big question, but I should be able to do well there as long as I learn how to swim in open water.

Oh, and I have 10.5 months left until the race

That's a cool site.

That's what she said.

Right, that's what I said.

I have eaten so many puddings today. Pudding, pudding, pudding. According to folk wisdom, I am now a pudding.

A figgy pudding?

Made with figs.

And bacon.

Sadly, no. Jell-O brand pudding snacks.

I am many such snacks.

We puddings often lose the thread of a conversation.

You know we won't go until we get some.

Won't go. WON'T GO.

So bring it. RIGHT HERE.

purple monkey dishwasher

It's that time.

I never realized how, erm, aggressive that song is. It sounds like an NFL linebacker. BRING IT!

Too many puddings! Too many puddings, Mr. Pudding!

i want to see if my body can hold up

What if it doesn't? If I wanted to see whether a bridge would hold up, I'd use something other than my body to test it.

Kind of wierd to see your own name being mentioned in a thread you aren't really participating in.

Anyway, if you are talking about what I think you are talking about, my general position is that the:

'I suffered X and I turned out OK, therefore we have no need to carry out X-ameliorating policy decisions'

argument is a stupid argument.

Basing your policy positions on how the very best/luckiest turn out is not the way to go.

218: Ironman Arizona? Good luck with that.

tweedledopey:

That is a great goal. What is the course like for Ironman Arizona?

will,

the course is very flat, which is key, because i'm not a great climber on the bike (though that is one thing I'm working on).

I am watching The Seventh Seal now and am a bit distracted by the lead's resemblance to Heino.

how you done an Olympic distance before or are you jumping start in with Ironmn?

What people are trying to say, tweedle, is DON'T DIE.

Ogged, you've got it all wrong.

People are saying, if you start to fail, drop out before you poop on yourself and have to crawl to the finish line.

DON'T POOP ON YOURSELF.

Of course, I will still be impressed at your ability to overcome pain.

I don't do Ironmans bc too many of my 60ish yr old swimmers would kick my ass. It really is embarassing the way they talk, "just finished a 20 mile run prior to practice Will."

After I catch my breath from walking up the stairs, I tell them to fuck off.

Of course, I will still be impressed at your ability to overcome pain.

I don't do Ironmans bc too many of my 60ish yr old swimmers would kick my ass. It really is embarassing the way they talk, "just finished a 20 mile run prior to practice Will."

After I catch my breath from walking up the stairs, I tell them to fuck off.

Because of the mechanics of the thing, you always poop on yourself a little bit. That's why there's wiping.

That was unusually frank.

text is trouble.

Generally, most of us do not poop in the middle of a street with crowds cheering us on.

You're doing it wrong.

text is trouble.

A bad influence? Yes.

Have fun, tweedle. My triathlete friend was describing her training to me. She goes out to the Berkshires and rides up mountains until she weeps, and then she rides up mountains, weeping.

Poetical!

But damp.

Foxytail has discovered the exclamation point, and her commenting will never be the same.

I understood one flounder reference, but not the other. Also.

Foxytail has discovered the exclamation point

I was just noticing that.

Me, I've discovered being even more terse. Like this.

parsimon made me do it.

More terse than what, SB? Than what?

parsimon might ask.

(They don't call her parsimon for nothing.)

What?

!!, !.

Than what?

Less terse.

(They don't call her parsimon for nothing.)

They named a princip after her.

Fuck.

Not Gavrilo, though.

Princip of parsimon!
Hakeem Olajuwon!
But that is not all of it.
That is not all.

particip

Possibly I've missed something.

Backtracking a few comments, I observe:

"I tell them to fuck off"

"It really is embarassing the way they talk"

"She goes out to the Berkshires"

"then she rides up mountains, weeping"

The Berkshires are lovely.

"DON'T DIE"

Which is to say: Don't forget to breathe. (That's a line from some song. When someone first wrote it to me, I thought it was so marvelous .. only to discover that it was a quotation. But no matter. I had the same response to the same person writing "Fuck you I won't do what you tell me!" Also a line from a song. Dammit!)

That's a line from some song

Also, "Don't forget to dance."

(Less relevant to the triathlete perhaps.)

Si picchia fortemente; Cenerentola corre ad aprire, ed entrano i cavalieri.

CORO
O figlie amabili - Di Don Magnifico
Ramiro il Principe - Or or verrà,
Al suo palagio - Vi condurrà.
Si canterà - Si danzerà:
Poi la bellissima - Fra l'altre femmine
Sposa carissima - Per lui sarà.

270: eh?

Ignore 270.

I will not.

Ignore 279.

Ignore 283.

Ignore 282.

for ( $i = 1; 0; $i++; ) { &ignore($i); }

Also, "Don't forget to dance."

Is this one of those once-mentioned hideously cliched sayings? Like "a smile is a frown turned upside down?"

Ignore Bill Stickers.

Ignore that man behind the curtain.

And the only word there spoken was the whispered word, "Ignore!"
This I whispered, and an echo murmured back the word, "Ignore!"
Merely this and nothing more.

I feel so ignorant.

That's cause you're an ignoramus.

Wow.

Yesterday or the year before
I drowned.
Don't forget to breathe, he said.

290: I'll ignore your amus.

I'll ignore your animosity.

I've got like thirty goddamn animosities.

You're an animaniac.

More terse than what, SB? Than what?

Distracted access of the memory-base gives me: "Too small for what? For what?"

ah, ogged. May I call you ogged?

You're an animaniac

So you've heard, but now you'll never know. NEVER.

Oh yeah? I bet eekbat would tell me anything. We're animate that way.

Is an "eekbat" like a "calabat"? Shame on you, B., for pitting the females of unfogged against each other. A thousand Jessica Biel ass photos on your household!

Eekbeat. Sorry, my pet name for her is a little . . . different.

Not planning on dying. I've recently had an echocardiogram and 3(!) EKGs, which I will write about at some point (remind me to not work this hard again ever after this job).

I've done olympic distance before, and it was fun.

As for pooping on myself, I've come close 3 or 4 times now. Thank god for the woods, or, better yet, large development signs that shield you from passing traffic. But the feeling of, OH SHIT, it's not one that I enjoy. I have a feeling I will crap my pants at some point before this is all done. Hopefully it will be because of running, and not because what I thought was a fart was really poop and there goes my day at work and I'll probably be fired again for pooping my pants and oh man.